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Brickroad
07-22-2010, 12:43 PM
Let the battle for Mafia 5 begin!

There are six options on the table. Here's the links to each ruleset up as a candidate:

Brickroad's Survivor game (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=812908&postcount=1)
Nich's barebones game (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=812914&postcount=2)
Alpha Werewolf's mystery game (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=812927&postcount=5)
dtsund's Team Engineer 2 (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=813160&postcount=16)
Bongo Bill's Brickroad game (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=813449&postcount=25)
Destil's Planescape game (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=813563&postcount=37)

The accompanying poll will allow you to vote for as many as you want, but we'll probably only be playing one. There may be an exception made if there are enough votes to support two games (like if we have 40 people interested in playing, or if my limited-players game is a front-runner, etc.) but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

The poll will last for three days, because you don't really need a week to decide this stuff, and if you don't check this forum in three days you probably shouldn't be playing a Mafia game.

Go!


Yeah yeah I know you Upper Deck people are still decompressing, but the rest of us have been dying to get started on M5 for like a month now.

M5 pitches go here, and someone can make a poll later on after they're all in. Here's mine, which should probably be disqualified, since it's not even Mafia:

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/survivortalkingtime.png

This week on... Survivor: Talking Time
(Official Rules)

Between 10 and 30 players will be divided up into two tribes and pitted against each other in a series of challenges. Every three real-time days one player will be eliminated, until only three are left. Those three will go up against a jury of their peers to determine who will be the Sole Survivor.

The game begins with all players being randomly assigned to one of two tribes. Each tribe will have its own thread, and players from one tribe may not read or participate in the other tribe's thread. In addition to the two tribal threads, there will be a neutral thread for game announcements and spectators. Players may post here, but not for purposes of metagaming. (Players should treat it much like the general Mafia thread is treated while the game is in progress.)

Challenge Phase
At the beginning of each Challenge Phase, the GM will post the rules of the new Immunity Challenge in the neutral thread. The tribes may then use this phase to strategize and determine the best way to win. Types of challenges may include, but are not limited to:

- Creative challenges, where each tribe creates something to be posted by the GM to the neutral thread, whereupon a winner is decided by spectator feedback.

- Gaming challenges, where each tribe nominates one member to play a video game and post a screenshot of their best score, or competes head-to-head with a member from the opposing tribe. (These will be limited to browser games or games otherwise legally available for free.)

- Strategic challenges, where each tribe will attempt to bluff and double-think the other in order to achieve some specified goal.

- Sleuthing challenges, where each tribe will utilize the magic of the internet to find and apply some obscure or strange piece of information.

Challenges will never be illegal or immoral... though they may be silly and even a little shameless. A player may choose not to participate in a challenge if he is unable or unwilling to do so. At the end of 48 hours the winning tribe will be granted Immunity, and all of its members will be safe from Tribal Council.

In addition to completing challenges, players may at any time during Challenge Phase contact any other player on their tribe by any means they choose to discuss whatever they like. In this way they can build secret alliances and voting blocs. They may also strategize in the open against the other tribe if they feel it prudent to do so. Players may never communicate with members of the opposing tribe, unless it is part of a challenge. Players are of course encouraged to keep a record of these corrospondences so they can be savored in the post-game.

Challenge Phase may end early if 1) immunity has been granted and 2) a unanimous decision is reached by all players remaining in the game.

Tribal Council Phase
During Tribal Council Phase, the tribe that did not win Immunity must vote one of its own members out of the game. The immune tribe remains dark for the duration of Tribal Council; no posting or any other form of communication is allowed.

Tribal Council shall last 24 hours, during which the tribe may discuss their options in their tribal thread. No secret correspondence is allowed during Tribal Council. At any time during Tribal Council, a player may PM the GM with his vote. A player may not vote for himself. Players may only vote once, and may not change their votes. At the end of 24 hours the player with the most votes is ejected from the game. Tribal Council votes are kept private, but any player who abstains or otherwise fails to vote will be revealed.

Once someone has been voted out, Tribal Council ends and play begins again with the next Challenge Phase.

The Merge
When the game is down to half its starting number, the remaining players will be merged into a single tribe. This new tribe will start over in a new thread. Players may no longer post in their old tribal threads, and are still forbidden to read their opposing tribe's old thread.

Play continues as it has, with these changes:

- Immunity is now individual. Only one player can win immunity at a time.

- All players now participate in all Tribal Councils.

The Jury
The contestant who places 12th will be the first member of the jury. The jury shall have nine members. Jurors may not participate in the game nor interact with any player via PM, and they still may not read their opposing tribe's thread. Otherwise they have the same role as normal spectators.

(If there aren't enough total players to sustain a 9-person jury, the number of jurors will be reduced accordingly. This number will be announced at the beginning of the game.)

Final Tribal Council
When the game is down to three players, the game proceeds immediately to the Final Tribal Council, which will be held in the merged tribe's thread. Each finalist may make one post to explain why they the jury should vote for them. After these opening posts have been made, there will be a 48-hour period of open discussion between finalists and jurors. At any time during this discussion, jurors may PM the GM with the name of which finalist they would like to win. At the end of 48 hours the votes will be revealed, one of the three finalists will be awarded the title of Sole Survivor and a check for $0,000,000.

tl;dr: Players will compete in a series of goofy challenges while making covert deals with each other. Every three real-time days one player will be removed from the game. You should only sign up for this ruleset if you can check the thread at least once a day, and are willing to sink some time and energy into making an MS Paint image or playing Tower Defense or somesuch.

Nodal
07-22-2010, 12:46 PM
We should run that alongside true Mafia games, allowing people to enlist in both.

Edit: This was in reference to Brickroad.

Sprite
07-22-2010, 12:49 PM
We should run that alongside true Mafia games, allowing people to enlist in both.
One long-form forum game at a time is taxing enough, and the mechanics of Survivor are close enough to Mafia that I think it should count.

Alpha Werewolf
07-22-2010, 12:52 PM
People of Talking Time! Do you want to take revenge on these filthy sicilians? DAMN STRAIGHT YOU DO!

Talking Time Mafia includes:

Exactly 20 players!

A complicated setup, including:
-More than two factions, each with a seperate win condition!
-Multiple power roles for each faction!
-No overpowered roles, and limits on those that can be!
-And finally, at least one special role that will change the way that the very game works!
more role info:
The roles will generally be picked from the following list:
(just the Basic part) (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Roles). There will be very few roles that are not from that list. One of the latter is a modified form of a role from M1 that will change the way you look at dead people subtantially.

A one week limit on days, to prevent dragging but still enable interesting talks! Furthermore, lurkers will be prodded and replaced with extreme prejudice!

A 48 hour limit on nights, to allow for a fast return to the action!

An exciting plot, concerning Talking Time's very own members, set right after M2W and M2E!

Brickroad!

Nodal
07-22-2010, 12:54 PM
One week? Good lord.

fanboymaster
07-22-2010, 12:59 PM
Survivor sounds promising.

McClain
07-22-2010, 01:33 PM
Since The Thing was my first mafia, and was so minimalist, I'm not going to care what we do, since I don't really know how a more complicated game works yet. But whatever it is, I want in. :)

EDIT: Actually, I would sit out Survivor, because it while it sounds awesome, it sounds like too much of a time sink for me right now. Which isn't a vote against it, because I would participate as a spectator like crazy.

What I'm saying is I'm totally Switzerland about it.

Adam
07-22-2010, 01:47 PM
Alpha, I know you don't want to spoil any of the sooper sekrit details of your master plan, but could you explain to me in non-spoilery terms how the hell a "day" could last an entire week without being a complete slog?

Nodal
07-22-2010, 01:53 PM
Yeah, the one time this happened in M2W, everyone--citizens and Mafia alike--was completely sick of it. I think, if you're going to put a hard time limit on it, a day should last at most 72 hours.

48 hour days are nice.

Tomm Guycot
07-22-2010, 02:06 PM
I will play Survivor.

I don't have much interest in Mafia (it seems like a lot of work to understand - I already understand Survivor)

McClain
07-22-2010, 02:09 PM
48 hour days are nice.

This. I like The Thing format where we had two 48 periods for days and just one for nights. It kept things moving along nicely.

kaisel
07-22-2010, 02:19 PM
72 hours is my preferred length of day, 48 is acceptable for me.

I'm going to wait to see who else proposes rules (and who knows, maybe I'll think of something nifty) but I'm leaning toward Nich's.

Alpha, I still have the same problem with not knowing what playing your game is going to be like, and the more I think about it, the more I think that mysteries about the game makeup aren't as fun, at least for me. Strategy becomes a lot harder to come by, and you don't have the face-to-face interactions to make up for it.

JohnB
07-22-2010, 02:20 PM
As a spectator, I enjoy reading 48 hour days and 24 hour nights. Do with that what you will.

dtsund
07-22-2010, 03:37 PM
Inspired, somewhat, by the recent Bizarro Talking Time game.

It was another relaxing day on the job, and what's more, you just got paid. Sure, ten bucks ain't much, but that don't matter; you and your twenty identical twins got to tinker with your machines, and that's what matters. And as your robot guns and your teleportation devices whirred away, you started to settle into the relaxing rhythm of hitting things with your wrench.

But suddenly, not too distant but around a corner... that hissing, crackling sound. No. Oh God no. You walk quickly yet cautiously toward the source, hoping against hope that you heard that sound wrong. Hoping to not hear Those Words...

"Spah's sappin my-"

*blam*

*blam* *blam*

You break into a frenzied run, arriving on the scene after what must surely have been mere seconds but felt like hours. And there was one of your twins... dead, a bullet hole through his hard hat. His robotic gun, crackling with electricity, collapses next to him in front of your very eyes.

And just a bit further away, a maliciously grinning man with a mask and a tuxedo, fading into invisibility. You fire your shotgun, but to no avail. You must sound the call.

"Hey boys, it's a spah!"

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab252/dtsund/mafiafive-1.png

Rules!

Everybody is either an Engineer (innocent Citizen) or Spy (Mafia). I'd probably limit it to 14 Engineers and 6 Spies. 72-hour days, 48-hour nights (I'm flexible on this, though, if demand is for something else); during the day, you choose for someone to be killed by mob shotgunning. During the night, the Spies can elect to backstab one Engineer. Standard rules, but there are no power roles.

Instead, each Engineer starts with ten dollars, and each Spy starts with five. At the start of each day phase, in addition to opening discussion and allowing voting, I'll put two items up for bids, selected at random; each player may use some or all of their starting money to bid on the items. Bids are done by PM; the other players don't get to see your bids. The player who bids the most on an item at the end of the day wins it, but must surrender his bid's worth of money regardless of what the other players bid. You may keep changing your bid until the night phase begins. Ties will be resolved randomly. Winning an item gives you a weak power, but the power may be one-time use in nature, disappearing after use. If you die, the items in your possession are not revealed. Spies may bid on items, the same as other players. If you wish, you can give some or all your money or items to other players instead of spending it, but you can only do so during the night phase. Item gifts may be used in the same night in which they are received. Such gifts are anonymous. This is why Spies start with less money, because they can potentially pool their resources.

Possible items (this list was generated at the spur of the moment, and may change):

Australium: Gives the user superhuman but temporary intelligence. Can deduce whether one other player is a Spy or not. One-time use only; you can select what night to use it on, it need not be used immediately.

Medigun: You may use a single Ubercharge, making yourself and one other player invulnerable to harm for a single night. Need not be used immediately. Your Ubercharge target will be told he is invincible, but not who did it.

Razorback: Protects you from the next backstab sent your way, if it would otherwise have killed you. You will not be told when your Razorback broke, but the spies will know that this thwarted them.

Folding Shovel: Allows you to loot the grave of one dead player and retrieve his or her items and money. May only be used once, and only at night.

Cheater's Lament: Wearing this halo will allow other players to see your innocence. Can only be used during the day, and only by Engineers; all players will be told you are innocent.

Sandman: Knocks out another player during the night phase, preventing them from taking any action. Cannot give away gold or items, cannot use items; if the target was a Spy, no backstabs will be done that night. One use only.

Eyelander: This sword thirsts for blood. You may use it to kill one other player in the night, Vigilante-style. One use only.

Jarate: On one night, rob another player of all dignity. Not to mention all of his items and money, as he retreats to take a bath. You only receive items that were not already used that night; items used that night are consumed, if applicable.

Towering Pillar of Hats: Doesn't do anything except look stylish. All players will be informed as to who owns the TPoH, as they see him wearing it. May only show up once. If Jarate or the Folding Shovel are used on the player with the TPoH, ownership of the TPoH reverts to the thief, so be wary.

Bonk! Energy Drink: May use it during one night phase to protect yourself from all harm, as you become too hyperactive to be hit by anything. Weaker than the Ubercharge in that you cannot protect anyone else at the same time.

This is just a preliminary list; I might add other stuff in the same vein to it.

Brickroad
07-22-2010, 04:14 PM
dtsund's idea sounds pretty nifty.

Having played in a Bronto game, I have to say that the combination of 100 crazy roles plus 100 crazy items was way too much. It wasn't the roles or the items, but rather the way they interacted with each other. So a game that has items but no roles might provide a very interesting and playable experience.

I'm still voting for Destil's thing though, probably.

Tock
07-22-2010, 06:18 PM
In addition to the two tribal threads, there will be a neutral thread for game announcements and spectators. Players may post here, but not for purposes of metagaming. (Players should treat it much like the general Mafia thread is treated while the game is in progress.)

So, for metagaming, then.

Brickroad
07-22-2010, 06:28 PM
So, for metagaming, then.

I'm not sure WHAT you're talking about. =)

Sprite
07-22-2010, 06:39 PM
Man, some great ideas up in this. Talking Time is the best.

Paul le Fou
07-22-2010, 07:02 PM
The auction-based one might prove interesting. Do you generate money beyond your initial pool? Like a dollar a day or somesuch? Or is it just whatever you have/can steal/dig up and that's that?

In general, I like the way the roleless games can go (thanks UD) and I'd like to try another Thing game in the future, but for now I'm inclined to go back to something with roles/powers/quirks just to keep mixing things up.

I'm not too interested in survivor atm, for what it's worth. It looks similar but it would play really different in that it's all social engineering without the detective work, in a way I personally wouldn't find as engaging.

Sprite
07-22-2010, 07:18 PM
Personally I like the rhythm of a "traditional" Mafia variant with simple roles followed by something completely different and experimental followed by a return to the regular variant, etc. Staying too much on one end would stagnate, and staying on the other end with make us fly out of control.

dtsund
07-22-2010, 07:30 PM
The auction-based one might prove interesting. Do you generate money beyond your initial pool? Like a dollar a day or somesuch? Or is it just whatever you have/can steal/dig up and that's that?

My idea was for the latter. The Bronto game did give players income, but I think that detracts from the potential strategy a bit. I might add a possible item that gives one player an income, though.

Having played in a Bronto game, I have to say that the combination of 100 crazy roles plus 100 crazy items was way too much. It wasn't the roles or the items, but rather the way they interacted with each other. So a game that has items but no roles might provide a very interesting and playable experience.

In fact, that was my exact reasoning. Well, half of it, anyway; the other half is that this makes sure everyone gets to possibly have a fun power at some point or another, without making it too chaotic.

Tanto
07-22-2010, 08:17 PM
I don't know how dtsund's idea would work in practice, but it sounds fun. At the very least, it'd be more interesting to recap than "Citizens argue in circles for two days, then vote for someone random".

On that note, in the event that we have two simultaneous games again, I'd really appreciate it if they were on different "schedules". Doing two summaries back-to-back is hellish, and I breathed a deep sigh of relief when the Upper Deck caught a Thing and moved the two games to alternating Nights.

Bongo Bill
07-22-2010, 09:00 PM
Brickroad: Villain or Menace?

The mysterious alien stranger, Brickroad, came to earth to combat an insidious alien invasion. He watches over our city and keeps us safe. OR DOES HE? Perhaps the alien invasion is just a ruse for him to conduct an invasion of his own!

This is a mafia game for an odd number of players plus Brickroad, who has volunteered for the challenge of being on a team by himself.

During the day phase, players vote to lynch one player, an act which requires a majority. There are no time limits. Brickroad cannot vote, but he can be voted for; lynching Brickroad ends the game, and it is the only way to kill him. The lynched player's role will be divulged to Brickroad alone, who must reveal this information unambiguously in order for the night phase to begin. Similarly, he must reveal the roles of players killed in the night in order to begin the day phase. In both cases, he is permitted to lie. Additionally, Brickroad is required to post at least one other time per day before a lynch can occur.

The game will be arranged secretly into one of two configurations: Good Brickroad and Evil Brickroad. These configurations affect the roles present and the victory conditions of all players.

In the Good Brickroad configuration, there is a mafia, and their number is two less than a majority. During the night phase, the mafia select a player other than Brickroad to kill, and Brickroad selects a player other than himself to investigate. If Brickroad selects a member of the mafia, that mafioso will be killed and the mafia's night kill prevented. If Brickroad is killed, the mafia win and all other players including Brickroad lose. If all mafia are eliminated, the mafia lose and all other players including Brickroad win. Even if the mafia achieve a majority, they must still go to the effort of actually lynching Brickroad during the daytime, so no failing to pay attention, now!

In the Evil Brickroad configuration, there is no mafia. Instead, Brickroad is given a random list of players, equal in length to a majority minus two (or perhaps minus three depending on balance considerations - please feedback!). These players will not be informed that they are special. If every player on this list is killed, Brickroad wins and all other players lose. If Brickroad is killed, all other players win.

The choice between the Good Brickroad and Evil Brickroad configurations is random and secret. Brickroad will be informed. Additionally, in the Good Brickroad configuration, the mafia will be informed. Innocents will not know, and their goal is to deduce this information.

Discussion of the game outside of the game thread is permitted for mafia only. It is absolutely forbidden for other players, especially dead players, even if you're not talking to someone who is playing. It would be too easy for a dead innocent player who was declared mafia to claim to have been innocent and blow Brickroad's cover. Then again, it would also be easy for a dead mafia player to claim posthumously to have been innocent. This rule can be waived if you guys really like metagaming.

Interested?

Brickroad
07-22-2010, 09:04 PM
Bongo Bill: In the Evil Brickroad configuration, would it be fair, in your opinion, to have majority-2 or majority-3 players on the Hit List?
Brickroad: If I'm Evil Brickroad I don't give a shit about fair.
Bongo Bill: Hmm, yes, quite. I'll just ask in the thread.

Bongo Bill
07-22-2010, 09:09 PM
Bongo, in your game, would you learn the identity of people who were lynched? It seems like you'd have to if you ever hoped to figure out which kind of Brickroad you were dealing with.

Brickroad learns their true role and must tell you. If he is good, he has little incentive to lie (though he might do it anyway). If he is evil, sooner or later he must lie. Your job as innocents is to determine if Brickroad is lying, because that goes a long way to figuring out if you should kill him or not.

Brickroad
07-22-2010, 09:15 PM
You won't have to worry about that, because I'll be Good Brickroad.

I promise.

Bongo Bill
07-22-2010, 09:19 PM
But how would we? If Evil Brick says someone was a mafia, who's to ever know they weren't? They're dead now and can't say anything. Someone who did figure it out and demands that Brickroad be lynched would do so at their peril, because if he was Good Brick then of course you shouldn't lynch him. The Evil Brick game doesn't seem to give you enough information to win.

If Evil Brick says someone is mafia, you should go back and see if that person was actually acting like mafia. If Evil Brick says he killed a mafia in the night, go back and see if that person was actually acting like mafia. If Evil Brick says an innocent died in the night, go back and see if the mafia would have had any reason to kill that person. If Evil Brick tries to convince you that someone is mafia and you should accuse him, go back and see if that accusation would make any sense.

The key to innocent strategy is to remember that untruths beget further untruths.

You can also undertake strategies like asking yourself what the mafia would do if they existed. The mafia will have to pretend like they're unrelated to each other, but the people on Evil Brick's Shit List will be unrelated to each other. The mafia will try to get him killed, but the people who think Brickroad is evil will try it in a different way.

This is a game with a great deal of subtlety.

However, if you want dead players to be able to talk, I might be able to find a fair way to permit that.

dtsund
07-22-2010, 09:27 PM
The ideal strategy there for the Citizens is to lynch Brickroad right away. If it's Evil Brickroad, Citizens win. If it's Good Brickroad, they lose, but...

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab252/dtsund/Achievement.png

...the Citizens would lose anyway, so they have nothing to lose from this gambit.

Bongo Bill
07-22-2010, 09:36 PM
Even if the innocents lynch an innocent every single day, Good Brickroad's night power alone can still win the game for them.

dtsund
07-22-2010, 10:12 PM
Even if the innocents lynch an innocent every single day, Good Brickroad's night power alone can still win the game for them.

I acknowledge this. I was merely saying that this wouldn't actually happen (see: Brickroad's performance as Inspector in Game 1). I was being snarky, y'see.

Alpha Werewolf
07-22-2010, 11:43 PM
What caused previous days to drag out? Let me make you a list:

-lurkers
-arguing in circles
-lurkers
-lurkers
-lurkers

What is left of the list, with my ruleset?

-arguing in circles

i don't think there'll be any stagnation here, no sir.

I wanted to give the mafia enough time to converse, but not too long. Therefore, one week days ending at the moment majority is reached, two day nights.

Destil
07-22-2010, 11:50 PM
Maybe it was better than ending up in the dead-book. One night you're having a grand time at the local kip. The next morning you discover anyone who attempts to escape this little corner of Sigil either found their way back to the center, or was never herd of again.

There was a cutter who knew the dark of it, though. Was. "We've been sealed off from the city, mazed. And it's because someone or something here has brought the blood war with them. The lady doesn't like that."

The next morning he found was dead in his bunk. That put the fire to the rest of you.
http://www.destil.org/M5/LadyOfPain.png

The Birdcage
A planescape themed mafia game.

Rules
Two teams: citizens and fiends. At the start of the game the DM will announce how many players belong to each team and what roles are in play.

The citizens win by killing all the fiends. The fiends win by having a number of players equal to the number of citizens at the start of day. Dead players still win if their team wins.

Alternating day and night phases (the game starts during the day); day is 72 hours long and night is 48 hours long.

During the day all players vote to lynch, one player much be lynched each day. In the event of a tie the player who was voted for first is lynched (retracted votes still count). When a player is lynched the the DM announces their team (citizen or fiend).

During the night the fiends meet and choose one player to be killed. citizens with special powers used at night PM the DM (if a player does not it is assumed they take no action that night). No information is revealed about night actions aside from players killed.

-The Game-
The game will be DMed (hey, it's a D&D theme) by me. I will end all votes promptly at the same time each day and check in with a total at least once a real life day. If there's ever a need to deviate from the schedule I'll announce if, it if will be off by more than a few hours there will be a guest DM. The fiends will communicate via google wave. Inactive players will be flayed by the lady of pain, players who wish to drop out will be replaced.

-Roles-
This will be a moderately role-heavy game, with both the citizens and the mafia having several special roles. Individual roles will generally not be as powerful as in M1 or M2, though there will be a few more total. The exact role makeup will depend on the number of players, and the game will be split (into two wards) if interest is great enough.

A combination of traditional roles and planescape inspired ones is listed below, I may tweak the list a bit or add/remove roles based on feedback.

All roles present will be known at the start of the game (unless there's a role who's powers specifically include not being disclosed at the start).

-Citizens-
The citizens will have a a sensate (inspector) a Aasimar (angel), a mercykiller (vigilante) and at least one random role. Depending on the game size there may also be some number of other roles, all given below:

Sensate (inspector) Sensates believe that life can only be lived by experiencing everything to the fullest.
Each night the sensate can inspect one player and learns if they are guilty (fiend) or innocent (citizen).

Aasimar (angel) Demihumans who trace a part of their lineage back to that of a celestial or angel.
Each night the aasimar may choose any one player to protect from death. Any effect that would kill that player that night is prevented, the prevented kill (including the identity of the person who was targeted) is announced the next morning. On the 4th day and every 3 days thereafter (7th, 10th et cetera) if the protection has been used they regain the use of the power, until then the aasimar can no longer protect a player after successfully using it.

Mercykiller (vigilante) To the Mercykiller justice is the ultimate goal of society. Mercy is a lie made up by the week and the criminals.
At night the Mercykiller can choose to kill any one other player. After doing so they can not kill another player until 3 nights have passed (so a Mercykiller who kills a player on night 1 can not kill again until night 5). The Mercykiller appears as guilty to the sensate.

Dustman (coroner) The dustmen believe that life is the greatest joke in the multiverse. Everything is already dead, some are just farther along that path than others. Embracing death is the true way to live.
The dustman learns the team and role of all players killed at night.

Cipher To a cipher thought is a distraction, by the time your mind has figured out what to do the opportune time to take that action has passed.
Once at any point during the game the cipher can do any of the following: kill one other player, learn the role of any one other player, act as a 'bodyguard' for one other player (preventing the first night-death that would befall them as long as both are alive). To kill a player or learn a role during the day the cipher must announce that they're the cipher and make the request in the thread and (the GM will disavow any fake cipher).
The cipher can not change their vote, if they do they lose their power (they can thus do so freely once they've used their power).

Godsman The godsmen believe that the potential for divinity lies within any being, that through a constant cycle of death and reincarnation one can progress and ascend to godhood.
If killed during the night, the godsman reincarnates on the morning of the day after (they are out of the game for only one day).

Guvner Laws rule everything. Learn the laws, learn how to break 'em, learn how to abuse them and the ultimate power and knowledge of the universe will be yours.
The guvner can name a role each night, and the DM will respond with the number of players in the game currently having that role.

The Clueless Visitors and other hapless sods in Sigil are generally referred to as 'The Clueless'.
Standard citizen with no special powers. They make up the majority of the game.

-Fiends-
The fiends will have at least one special role, depending on the size of the game and the number of fiends there may be more than one.

Succubus (don) Demons who specialize in the temptation of mortals.
Once during the game the succubus can choose to convert any other player to the side of the fiends by offering them a deal with the devil. They can do this by sending a message to the DM at any point in the game (during the night the succubus always acts first). If converted during the day the player joins the fiends discussion that night, if done during the night it happens the following morning. In either case the player is only informed of the identity of the succubus by the GM.

Tiefling Tieflings are demihumans with have just a hint of fiendish blood tracing back many generations.
The tiefling is shown to be a member of the citizens when lynched. They are still guilty if inspected by the sensate.

Doomguard (devil)To the doomguard entropy is both the ultimate force in the universe and the ultimate end of all things.
The doomguard is aligned with the fiends, but does not participate in the night conversation or know their identities. Instead each night the doomguard chooses one player and learns their role.

shivam
07-22-2010, 11:53 PM
OMG I'M SO THERE. fucking berks.

Destil
07-22-2010, 11:58 PM
OMG I'M SO THERE. fucking berks.

Think youself a right cutter, then?

dtsund
07-23-2010, 12:19 AM
Nerrrrrds

I'm interested, even though I've never played DnD. I've read a little about the Planescape setting, though, enough for the intro to make some sense.

Brickroad
07-23-2010, 04:19 AM
I think the devil should be a Doomguard. Otherwise, absolutely perfect.

Do we have any more pitches forthcoming?

JohnB
07-23-2010, 05:58 AM
Planescape!? Holy shit. Holy. Shit. Wow. Game on, man. Time to play.

Loki
07-23-2010, 06:19 AM
Survivor sounds like a lot of fun. Can we do that?

Umby
07-23-2010, 06:49 AM
Both TF2 and Planescape sound great to play, and I'd be up for both.

Destil
07-23-2010, 08:22 AM
I think the devil should be a Doomguard. Otherwise, absolutely perfect.

Do we have any more pitches forthcoming?

Good call. I was unhappy with the flavor on that one anyway...

McDohl
07-23-2010, 08:28 AM
The Birdcage

...I have a very different impression of "The Birdcage".

http://www.itadakiproject.com/the-birdcage.jpg

McClain
07-23-2010, 09:40 AM
I've never played DnD, and I don't know Planescape... but so there!

...I have a very different impression of "The Birdcage".



I would play this game. The South Beach Citizens vs. the Republicans.

Merus
07-23-2010, 10:51 AM
The big problem I see with the Game of Brickroad is: is he clearly having fun? If so, it's Evil Brickroad.

Brickroad
07-23-2010, 11:00 AM
More importantly, do we have any more pitches coming? I'm ready to make a poll and get moving.

I would be totally happy playing any of these games. I will probably vote for all of them, except Alpha's.

Alpha Werewolf
07-23-2010, 11:08 AM
I would be totally happy playing any of these games. I will probably vote for all of them, except Alpha's.

Oh, you.

I'll gladly play Planescape (because ROLES, though I still despise the Don), but I won't be playing Nich's (beccause NO ROLES), and I still think that Survivor should be run seperately.

Interesting fact! If Nich told us nothing about his game, I'd have no problem playing it.

Brickroad
07-23-2010, 11:19 AM
Guys, we can't run Survivor separately. Stop suggesting that.

Alpha Werewolf
07-23-2010, 11:23 AM
Guys, we can't run Survivor separately. Stop suggesting that.

Why? Survivor and mafia are two completely seperate entities!

Survivor: Backstab/Ally with others and win immunities, make sure the jury supports you.

Mafia: Catch the mafia by analysing playstyles, posts and interactions.

Calorie Mate
07-23-2010, 11:36 AM
I STILL VOTE FOR ALPHA'S STUPID SECRET AMAZING GAME. Not the one he pitched, the one he won't tell us about.

Seriously guys, it's the only way we'll know what it is, and you do want something a little more orle-heavy this time around, right?

Brickroad
07-23-2010, 11:39 AM
Why? Survivor and mafia are two completely seperate entities!

For much the same reason we didn't start M5 as soon as M4LD was over. (And for a few other reasons too.)

Alpha Werewolf
07-23-2010, 12:06 PM
I think it's more a matter of spreading the player base too thin between both games/having enough time in the day to run/play two games at once.

(That was in reply to Alpha)

I'm saying that they require completely different efforts to play. Plus, we easily get over 30 players just for the mafia game.

Calorie Mate
07-23-2010, 12:08 PM
If you vote for it, you have to play it! Also, the one he pitched is the one he won't tell us about.

It's ok, I'll just vote for it and not post so that he kicks me out after like an hour.

Nodal
07-23-2010, 12:13 PM
It's ok, I'll just vote for it and not post so that he kicks me out after like an hour.

Calories! SHHHHHHHH.

namelessentity
07-23-2010, 12:20 PM
With Evil Brickroad how do night kills work? Is it just whoever he wants that night?

I'm soo up for dsundt's game. I with so many potential roles how it plays out will be completely different from what we've known. No set strategy, yet similar to past games.

Nodal
07-23-2010, 12:21 PM
I think it's about time we had a voting thread.

Just make one and they can be merged later right?

Kylie
07-23-2010, 12:24 PM
omg plaaaaaaaaanescaaaaaaaaaaape

Brickroad
07-23-2010, 12:28 PM
I think it's about time we had a voting thread.

I'll make one tomorrow, unless you make one tonight.

Torgo
07-23-2010, 01:07 PM
Alpha's game sounded good until...
A one week limit on days
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooo~.

No.

I would still maybe vote for it though.

McClain
07-23-2010, 01:31 PM
Guys, we can't run Survivor separately. Stop suggesting that.

Yeah, I'm in favor of just one soul/time-consuming forum game at a time.

Calorie Mate
07-23-2010, 01:51 PM
I'm with Torgo; a week is WAY too much time. There were times where I felt 48 hours was too much, personally.

Bongo Bill
07-23-2010, 05:33 PM
With Evil Brickroad how do night kills work? Is it just whoever he wants that night?

Whoever he wants.

McClain
07-23-2010, 05:45 PM
Uh, did you mean the poll to be multiple choice?

kaisel
07-23-2010, 05:54 PM
Yes. The M4 poll was also multiple choice and I feel like it's a better method. I would be happy playing any of the games I voted for.

It's a great method, without it being multiple choice I would've stalemated on voting, since there were some great choices.

Are we going to use this as a sign up thread as well, or hold off until one has won (since not everyone wants to play in particular games)?

McClain
07-23-2010, 05:54 PM
Yes. The M4 poll was also multiple choice and I feel like it's a better method. I would be happy playing any of the games I voted for.

oh, fair enough. just checking!

I'm going to vote for two myself, then. EDIT: no, I'm not, I already submitted it, damn.

dwolfe
07-23-2010, 09:14 PM
I'm glad to hear the M4 voting for multiple choices was favorably received.

One IMPORTANT question/comment: voting vs. signups, baby*!

Should voting for a choice give you a tentative spot in the next game if it wins, with the GM PM'ing to be sure you're still active and up for it?

Or should we use another method. There were several people in M4 who were assumed to play who didn't really participate (and that's cool), but that did throw things off at the start. So at least we should have a verification PM response or something before the game kicks off.

And to start things in style, everyone who says no/doesn't reply should be sacrificed in the Night 0 setup! Nothing like a little blood-shed to start the game off right (as I'll probably die Night 1 regardless)

*You so Pringles!

dtsund
07-23-2010, 11:30 PM
Huh. After that first round of votes, I wasn't expecting much for Team Engineer 2, but it looks like it might have a chance.

kaisel
07-23-2010, 11:38 PM
I kind of think there should be a signup thread regardless, to eliminate any chance of confusion and in case there are so many people wanting to play that we need to run two games (or run two sessions of one game, M2/M4 style).

Yeah, there definitely needs to be separate threads, I imagine some people don't want to play certain games. For example, I'd love to watch the Survivor one, but I don't have the time to play in it, and my internet connection sucks enough that'd be a hassle even if I wanted to.

Torgo
07-24-2010, 01:52 AM
Huh. After that first round of votes, I wasn't expecting much for Team Engineer 2, but it looks like it might have a chance.
On first impression I wasn't too keen on it, but I just reread it and it sounds excellent.

Alpha Werewolf
07-24-2010, 12:28 PM
Hmm. I see the one week limit wasn't very well received.

Guess I'll make it three days for M6.

Adam
07-24-2010, 01:07 PM
Hmm. I see the one week limit wasn't very well received.

Guess I'll make it three days for M6.

I honestly don't know if it'll make much of a difference. The mystery behind the game is probably more alienating to everyone than it is piquing interest. That said, I'm glad your game is behind on votes right now, because I'm pretty sure I'm not going to have time to play a Mafia game starting in the next few weeks, and I'm interested enough in your game to want to play it when M6 rolls around.

I also like the idea of Brick's game, but since I prefer to play in a team, it sounds really exciting to play, but not all that fun to win.

Alpha Werewolf
07-24-2010, 01:29 PM
I honestly don't know if it'll make much of a difference. The mystery behind the game is probably more alienating to everyone than it is piquing interest. That said, I'm glad your game is behind on votes right now, because I'm pretty sure I'm not going to have time to play a Mafia game starting in the next few weeks, and I'm interested enough in your game to want to play it when M6 rolls around.

I honestly don't see what else I can say about it apart for straight-up giving the setup.

Kylie
07-24-2010, 02:02 PM
Man I am the king of circular discussion especially w/r/t Brickroad but DANG if the "you tell us nothing, we do not vote" angle hasn't been covered once or twice.

Three days is definitely better. Talking time makes its decisions quickly.

Alpha Werewolf
07-25-2010, 02:51 AM
You see where Destil laid out in detail about a dozen potential roles he might use with the caveat that only a few of them would be actually in the game? And you see how he's currently tied for first? I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

That's, uh, exactly what I did, with the exception of not saying which of them will defifnitely be in the game, and not saying which of them are in the game at the game's start.

dwolfe
07-25-2010, 07:59 AM
People of Talking Time! Do you want to take revenge on these filthy sicilians? DAMN STRAIGHT YOU DO!

Talking Time Mafia includes:

Exactly 20 players!

A complicated setup, including:
-More than two factions, each with a seperate win condition!
-Multiple power roles for each faction!
-No overpowered roles, and limits on those that can be!
-And finally, at least one special role that will change the way that the very game works!
more role info:
The roles will generally be picked from the following list:
(just the Basic part) (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Roles). There will be very few roles that are not from that list. One of the latter is a modified form of a role from M1 that will change the way you look at dead people subtantially.

A one week limit on days, to prevent dragging but still enable interesting talks! Furthermore, lurkers will be prodded and replaced with extreme prejudice!

A 48 hour limit on nights, to allow for a fast return to the action!

An exciting plot, concerning Talking Time's very own members, set right after M2W and M2E!

Brickroad!

Alpha: A little feedback for the next round of voting, on what to change about your post to get more votes; take it or not, your call.

- Possible win conditions?: Even if it's just the lone werewolf among the mafia/vampires, spell it out.

- "very few roles that are not from the list" means you did not spell out all the roles, plus you couldn't be bothered to cut and paste the 'basic roles' yet again. Let us look at the mechanics more to see if we like the sound of it (see also: most other mafia games proposed) and can raise concerns of balance/mechanics during the pre-game.

- Week-long days: 72 hours tops seems to be the consensus. Threatening people who don't post then giving them a week to actually post is not a very strong threat, but I did appreciate you wanting to keep people active.

- Consider switching to Marvel vs Capcom or another theme, given that the current theme hasn't taken off. I had the Three-faction game proposed last time, and got some good feedback on the mechanics; someday I'll propose it again when I come up with a good story. Alternately, post the intro to the game that you'd give us anyway; if you have a compelling back story, and give us a sample of how you'd write, we might be more interested.

- We just aren't interested in a 'mystery game' when the game can take two months to play out. We want to know what we're getting into, pure and simple.

Alpha Werewolf
07-25-2010, 09:22 AM
Well, dwolfe, I thank you for actually giving feedback.

-Possible win conditions: They're all generic win conditions, nothing like "survive to the end with character X alive". I was just saying that it's not one for the mafia, one for the town.

-Roles: There are two. One is meant as a surprise and I won't reveal it, period, and the other is a minorly modified survivor.

-Day length: Yeah, I figured that out as I said in a previous post. Do note that I didn't mean "if you didn't post in an in-game day you're kicked out", more like "if you aren't posting consistently you're kicked out".

-The theme is set, but an example of the writing sounds like a good idea. I'll do that for M6.

-Again, there's barely anything that's still mysterious about this.

I've just noticed that I'm the only one who's been consistently offering up the same game since the M3 votes. Heh.

shivam
07-25-2010, 11:12 AM
i'll play whatever game is chosen.

Kylie
07-25-2010, 12:24 PM
Well, dwolfe, I thank you for actually giving feedback.

-Possible win conditions: They're all generic win conditions, nothing like "survive to the end with character X alive". I was just saying that it's not one for the mafia, one for the town.

-Roles: There are two. One is meant as a surprise and I won't reveal it, period, and the other is a minorly modified survivor.

-Day length: Yeah, I figured that out as I said in a previous post. Do note that I didn't mean "if you didn't post in an in-game day you're kicked out", more like "if you aren't posting consistently you're kicked out".

-The theme is set, but an example of the writing sounds like a good idea. I'll do that for M6.

-Again, there's barely anything that's still mysterious about this.

I've just noticed that I'm the only one who's been consistently offering up the same game since the M3 votes. Heh.

More than two teams means multiple win conditions for each team. You stated a separate win condition for each. This sort of implies nonstandard win conditions.

You said multiple special roles for each faction; is that the one surprise and one "minorly modified survivor"? I don't know what a minorly modified survivor is. Is each faction unique in the roles assigned, like our previous Mafia games? Or are they all mirror images?

I guess I just don't understand what you're trying to tell us about your game.

Nodal
07-25-2010, 12:54 PM
i'll play whatever game is chosen.

Yeah, this. I just wanted to experience an M3-like game without dieing first round.

JohnB
07-25-2010, 12:54 PM
When is the voting finalized? As of right now there hasn't been any change in the 3-way near tie for some time.

Alpha Werewolf
07-25-2010, 01:00 PM
More than two teams means multiple win conditions for each team. You stated a separate win condition for each. This sort of implies nonstandard win conditions.
I apologize, then. That phrase was just supposed to make it clear that the factions are seperate.

You said multiple special roles for each faction; is that the one surprise and one "minorly modified survivor"? I don't know what a minorly modified survivor is. Is each faction unique in the roles assigned, like our previous Mafia games? Or are they all mirror images?
Two of the factions are very similar, otherwise, they're all different. The surprise and survivor are the roles that don't come from the basic list.

JohnB
07-26-2010, 05:04 PM
25 minutes of democracy "inaction" before M5 is selected!

JohnB
07-26-2010, 06:04 PM
I was making a reference to this Daily Show classic (http://www.amazon.com/Daily-Stewart-Presents-America-Teachers/dp/0446691860/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1280192594&sr=8-1). Sheesh. Nothing personal. Although, if you want to get snippy then no, the votes didn't change a damn bit since the last time I posted.

McClain
07-26-2010, 06:23 PM
Aw yeah, time to learn about demons and shit.

Nodal
07-26-2010, 06:26 PM
Guys, I promise from the beginning, I'm not a horrible hell-spawn.

Brickroad
07-26-2010, 06:30 PM
Guys, I promise from the beginning, I'm not a horrible hell-spawn.

You mean, like, in the game? Or...?

Nodal
07-26-2010, 06:33 PM
You mean, like, in the game? Or...?

In the game. I make no promises in reality. Speaking of which, would you mind signing this contract? Oh that's a shame did you prick yourself on the pen? Oh well just sign it anyway, that's fine.

Merus
07-26-2010, 07:30 PM
In the game. I make no promises in reality. Speaking of which, would you mind signing this contract? Oh that's a shame did you prick yourself on the pen? Oh well just sign it anyway, that's fine.
Don't worry, it'll dry black, it'll be fine.

Destil
07-26-2010, 07:47 PM
Yeesh. Pardon me for wanting to ensure everyone could vote.

But yeah, it looks like Destil's going to be our next GM, so I think it'll be up to him to start the signup thread when he's ready.

Done and done. If anyone thinks a week is too short for sign up... well you're most likely an ex-upper deck citizen so it's not like I care.