PDA

View Full Version : M11 - The Organization: Intrigue at Sea


Pages : [1] 2 3

Agent Prime
04-09-2011, 02:19 AM
Greetings, applicant. We trust this missive finds you well.

We have had our eye on you for some time. Your unique blend of charisma, resourcefulness and ruthlessness is precisely what we look for when recruiting new field operatives. We therefore extend to you an invitation to participate in the most exciting, dangerous and lucrative game you will ever play.

You have had a relatively successful career as a freelance superspy. A high-profile assassination here, a toppled Latin American government there... but make no mistake, your activities up to this point have been inconsequential at best. The Organization is higher than every government, untouchable by any social or political movement. We are the hand behind the curtain, and we are offering you a job.

Enclosed in the second envelope is a first-class ticket for the Jonathan Christian, a luxury cruise liner which will depart from Buenos Aires twenty-four hours from now. If you choose to accept our invitation, all you need to do is be on board when the ship leaves port. The Jonathan Christian represents the absolute pinnacle of opulence, and the five days you will spend en route to Nassau will be the most lavish time of your life.

That is, if you're still alive by the end of the mission.

An identical invitation has been extended to twenty of your peers. You are all playing the same game, by the same rules, but beware: we don't have enough open positions for everyone who accepts. Along with your ticket, you will find the identity of one of your fellow players. Eliminating this individual is your primary objective. They must be taken care of before the Jonathan Christian docks in Nassau or you will not be considered. It should go without saying that you must survive the journey yourself as well, for you too are another applicant's target.

In addition, we will be using this exercise as field testing for the latest and greatest in superspy gadgetry. R&D has supplied a wide variety of equipment which may be procured during the operation via a process of silent bidding. Your account has been credited $100 for use in bidding on this equipment. Tactful selection and creative implementation of these devices may be critical to your success.

Finally, we have received intel that a rival organization has designs on infiltrating the operation. Consider identifying and disposing of this infiltrator to be your first assignment, for if they survive, we will not be hiring you or any other applicant aboard upon arrival.

We wish you the best of luck on your mission.

Agent Prime
The Organization

---

Players and Objectives

In this game, you will either be an Applicant or the Infiltrator.

The GM of the game is Agent Prime.

Applicants begin the game with $100 and one target. An Applicant wins the game if I. s/he is alive on the morning of the sixth day, II. his/her target is dead, and III. the Infiltrator has been eliminated.

The Infiltrator begins the game with $150. S/he wins if s/he is alive on the morning of the sixth day. If the Infiltrator wins, all Applicants lose.

Each Applicant has exactly one target, and will him/herself be the target of exactly one other Applicant. There will be no situations where two Applicants are targeting each other.



Phases

The game begins with a 24-hour Boarding Phase, then proceeds through five alternating cycles of 48-hour Day Phases and 48-hour Night Phases. The game ends at the beginning of the sixth Day Phase, like so:


Boarding (24 hours)
Day One (48 hours)
Night One (48 hours)
Day Two (48 hours)
Night Two (48 hours)
Day Three (48 hours)
Night Three (48 hours)
Day Four (48 hours)
Night Four (48 hours)
Day Five (48 hours)
Night Five (48 hours)
Day Six (End of Game)


During the Boarding Phase, players may make no moves except to bid on items. Ten items will be randomly selected and made available for purchase at this time. Items that are won go into play at the beginning of Day One. Items that do not receive bids will go into the pool to be auctioned off later.



During a Day Phase, players may post whatever they like in the game thread, but may not PM each other. Each day, players will select someone to throw overboard. In order to nominate someone for the drink, please post a clear, bolded statement on its own line, like so:

I accuse Brickroad.

Whichever player has received the most nominations at the end of the day will be thrown overboard and drown. Players may accuse anyone they like and may change their accusation at any time. Players may not accuse themselves. Players may retract their accusation by posting a clear, bolded statement on its own line, like so:

I un-accuse Brickroad.

If two or more players have an equal number of votes, a victim will be selected at random by the GM. If the day ends and no player has any accusations against, nobody will be drowned that day.

Each day will open with a post identifying which players (if any) were killed during the night. It shall not be revealed who targeted a player killed at night.

Each day will close with a post identifying what items the drowned player was carrying. Also listed will be the items available in that night's auction.

Events taking place during the day happen in real time, in the order the posts appear in the thread. Events requiring GM confirmation (item use, etc.) happen as soon as the GM confirms them.



During a Night Phase, players may not post at all in the game thread, but may PM as many people as often as they like. Players may trade money or items at this time by informing the GM of their intent to do so. Please include Agent Prime in all nighttime PMs.

At night, players may bid on the items up for auction. These items go into play at the beginning of the following day.

Players may also hire a Snitch for a fee of $10. They may hire as many Snitches as they can afford. Snitch results will be delivered before dawn.

The Infiltrator may murder one player by PMing the GM his/her target's name.

Events that take place at night resolve in the following order:

Player PMs -> Item Usage -> Item/Money Trades -> Murders -> Snitches -> Auctions




Snitches

Snitches are available during Night Phases. For $10, a Snitch will investigate one player and report back with the identity of that player's target. The Snitch does not care if his investigation involves a living player or a dead one. Multiple Snitches may be sent to investigate the same player, if desired. Players may hire as many Snithces in a single night as they can afford.

Snitches that are sent to investigate the Infiltrator will report the name of a randomly-selected living Applicant. The only way to identify the Infiltrator in this way would be to send two Snitches at a player and get back two different names.




Auctions

During the Boarding Phase and each subsequent Night Phase, players may bid on any of the items available for sale. Players may bid on as many items as they like, but may only bid once per phase. In order to place a bid, the player PMs the GM an itemized list of what s/he would like to buy, and the highest they are willing to pay for each item. Bids may be neither retracted nor altered. The total sum of a player's bids may not exceed their current cash on hand.

There will always be ten items for sale. As items are purchased, new items will be randomly selected to take their place during the next bidding cycle. Unsold items will remain until they are purchased.

At the end of the phase, the item goes to the highest bidder. Items which receive only one bid are sold for the price specified by the bidder. Items which receive two or more bids are sold for a price equal to the second highest bid plus one dollar.

A bid list looks like this:

Magnificent Stovepipe Hat ($30)
Fake Will ($50)
$10,000 Bill ($10)

In case of a tie, bidders will be contacted via PM with an offer to purchase the item for a price equal to their current bid plus all of their remaining cash on hand. (That is, cash not currently tied up in other bids.) If only one bidder accepts the offer, the item is sold for that amount. If more than one bidder accepts the offer, the item is sold to whichever player has more cash. If more than one bidder accepts the offer and has the same amount of cash, a winner will be chosen at random. If no one accepts the offer, the item remains unsold.

There are no bidding wars.

Upon death, a player's items and money are publically inventoried and placed in the ship's storage locker for safe keeping.

---

Master Item List

Ball Gag - Daytime Item

Target: one living player
Usage: single use; effect ends at end of day
Declare: in thread
Effect: Target player may not post for the duration of the day. The player's current accusation remains in play, if s/he has made one, but s/he may neither change nor retract it. Target may speak freely again that night.

It takes some work to get this into someone's mouth, but once it's in that person becomes incapable of speaking. Everyone sees when you administer the Ball Gag, but nobody will stop you because, let's be honest. It's really, really funny.

---

Bright Neon Smugness Sticker - Daytime Item

Target: one living player
Usage: single use; effect remains until end of game
Declare: in thread
Effect: Sticker changes color depending on the status of its wearer's target. If his/her target is alive, it displays dull red. If his/her target is dead, it shines hot neon pink. Sticker placed on the Infiltrator will always display pink.

This impossible-to-remove fibrous sticker contains a pigment that responds to a person's smug sense of self-satisfaction. The sticker is typically a very dull red, but it shines hot neon pink if that person's secret target is dead. The Infiltrator is naturally smug, so if placed on him/her the sticker will shine pink regardless of who he has killed.

---

Danger Sensor] - Daytime Item

Target: previous fifty posts made in the current Day Phase
Usage: once per day
Declare: in thread
Effect: Warns its user of potential danger. If the player trying to kill you, anyone who corresponded with that player last night, or the Infiltrator has posted any time in the previous fifty posts, you will be publically notified.

This handheld device comes equipped with a big button and three LEDs. When used, the sensor looks at the fifty posts immediately preceeding the one in which you activated it. If the Applicant who has targeted you has a post in that window, the blue LED will flash. If someone who has had nighttime correspondence with that Applicant on the previous Night Phase has a post in that window, the green LED will flash. And if the Infiltrator has a post in that window, the red LED will flash. The LEDs are super-bright and therefore visible by everyone on the ship.

---

Fake Will - Daytime Item

Target: one dead player
Usage: single use
Declare: in thread
Effect: You gain all items and money the target player owned at the moment of his/her death.

This incredibly official-looking forgery names you sole heir to the belongings of a dead player of your choosing. Simply present it at any time during the day and anything the target player had when s/he died becomes yours.

---

Flying-Machine-Seeking Rocket Launcher - Daytime Item

Target: the Shoulder-Mounted Flying Machine
Usage: single use
Declare: in thread
Effect: Immediately kills any player who has declared use of the Shoulder-Mounted Flying Machine.

Heavy ordinance that seeks out any Flying Machines in the area and shoots them down in a spectacular ball of fire. The sole purpose of this weapon is to destroy anyone attempting to escape using a Shoulder-Mounted Flying Machine.

---

Horrifying Brain Parasite - Daytime Item

Target: one living player
Usage: single use; effect remains until end of game
Declare: PM
Effect: The target may only accuse the player you specify. If s/he ever accuses another player, s/he dies. The target may still abstain from voting. If the specified player ever dies, the target is freed from the parasite's effect. Target will be notified s/he has been infected, and the player s/he is allowed to accuse, but not who infected him/her.

This small, clear vial contains one of the most malicious brain parasites ever developed in a skull-shaped moon-base. PM the name of your target to the GM, along with the name of any player. From that point on, the parasite's host may only accuse the specified player. If he ever casts or changes his vote for another player, the parasite will kill him instantly.

---

Incriminating Evidence - Daytime Item

Target: none
Usage: single use; effect remains until end of day
Declare: in thread
Effect: Cast one extra vote. That vote may be neither retracted nor changed.

The Incriminating Evidence lends enormous weight to your arguments. Upon using it, your next nomination counts double. But be careful; the evidence remains even if the debate moves on, so its "vote" cannot be changed even if yours does.

---

Infiltration Sensor - Daytime Item

Target: Infiltrator
Usage: anytime
Declare: in thread
Effect: Publically announces whether or not the Infiltrator is still alive. If used by the Infiltrator, s/he dies instantly.

It's a scientific fact that the Infiltrator emits a unique radioactive isotope. This device is sensitive to that isotope and, if detected, will emit an extremely shrill high-pitched squeal. If there are any Infiltrators aboard, you'll know it immediately -- and so will everyone else. The Infiltration Sensor may be used as often as you like, although repeated application is considered annoying. If the Infiltrator attempts to use the device, it will short out and cause a fatal explosion..

---

Magnificent Stovepipe Hat - Daytime Item

Target: you
Usage: anytime
Declare: in thread
Effect: Identifies you as an Applicant.

This stunning hat is the absolute epitome of style and fashion. Whomever wears it is certain to be the center of attention. Because s/he is trying to avoid scrutiny, the Infiltrator may under no circumstances put it on. (S/he may still own it, though.) The wearer of the Magnificent Stovepipe Hat is encouraged to remind everyone about it at every available opportunity.

---

Memory Distortion Field - Daytime Item

Target: you
Usage: single use
Declare: automatic
Effect: Saves you from being drowned. The player with the second-highest number of accusations dies instead. If no other player has accusations, no one dies.

This device fits snugly in the inner ear and projects a field around the wearer that causes him/her to be conspicuously inconspicuous. If at the end of the day the owner of the Memory Distortion Field has more accusations against him/her than any other player, the field automatically activates and all of those accusations are instantly forgotten. The player with the second highest number of accusations is drowned instead. (If no other player has accusations against, nobody is drowned.)

---

Neuroisotopic Vote Locker - Daytime Item

Target: current votes
Usage: single use; effect remains until end of day
Declare: in thread
Effect: All current votes are "locked in" and may be neither changed nor retracted. Players who have yet to vote may do so freely.

This device emits a signal which interacts with the vote-casting isotopics found in the human brain. Any votes on the table when the Neuroisotopic Vote Locker is deployed are locked in place; the players responsible for those votes may not change or retract them. Players who have not voted yet are free of its effects, and may change/retract their votes as normal.

---

Odorless Snoozebomb - Daytime Item

Target: all players
Usage: single use
Declare: in thread
Effect: Game immediately proceeds to the end of the current Day Phase. The player with the most votes against is still drowned.

This aerosol bomb contains a colorless, odorless gas that permeates the entire ship within minutes. This gas is perfectly harmless, but anyone inhaling it falls immediately into a deep slumber. The device can be triggered at any time during a Day Phase to end that Day Phase early. The game jumps immediately to the beginning of the next Night Phase -- just in time for the passengers to drown someone and retreat to their cabins.

---

Rat Poison Cocktail - Daytime Item

Target: one living player
Usage: single use
Declare: PM
Effect: Kills target player.

A nice, discrete way to kill someone. Simply pour it into someone's drink, and watch him/her slump over. Do not declare use of this item in the thread; instead, simply PM the GM, and he will notify everyone that your target has been poisoned.

---

RNG Hacking Device - Daytime Item

Target: one unlisted item
Usage: once per day
Declare: in thread
Effect: Target item is guaranteed to appear at auction tonight.

This peculiar hacking device affects systems designed to generate random numbers. At any time during the day you may declare an unused, unsold, unlisted item. That item is guaranteed to appear at auction that night.

---

Shoulder-Mounted Flying Machine - Daytime Item

Target: you
Usage: single use
Declare: in thread
Effect: You are removed from the game. If you are the Infiltrator, the game ends immediately. If used earlier than Day Four, you die instead. Win/lose conditions still apply to you.

A very impressive-looking device consisting of thrusters and helicopter blades installed on a backpack. This device allows you to leave the Jonathan Christian behind and get to the safety of Nassau early. Using it removes you from the game entirely; you may no longer post, PM, be targetted by any player actions, nor take any actions yourself. The device has a small fuel tank; using it any earlier than Day Four will certainly doom you to a watery grave.

---

Single Shot Derringer - Daytime Item

Target: one living player
Usage: single use
Declare: in thread
Effect: Kills target player.

A quick, effective, and loud way to shut someone up. Use this item at any time during the day to immediately kill your target right there in front of God and everybody.

---

Telepathic Sunglasses - Daytime Item

Target: one living player
Usage: once per day
Declare: PM
Effect: Send a message to the target during the Day Phase. The recipient may not respond.

They may look like the oversized plastic novelty sunglasses you get on the beach, but their lenses are actually psionically-charged devices capable of projecting thoughts. You may use them to send a PM to any player you like during the daytime. Do not declare use of this item in the thread; merely send your PM to the GM and the message's target. The recipient may not respond.

---

Truth Detector - Daytime Item

Target: one statement
Usage: once per day
Declare: in thread
Effect: Determines the truth value of a single statement.

This device may scan one statement and evaluate its truth value. Simply quote the statement you would like to scan (and link the post in which that statement was made), and the Truth Detector will report it as either TRUE or FALSE. The Truth Detector is not very sophisticated, so it can only evaluate objective statements. (It could evaluate the statement "I sent a Snitch after Brickroad last night," but not "I sent a Snitch after Brickroad last night because I think he lied to me.")

---

Unbreakable Handcuffs - Daytime Item

Target: two living players
Usage: single use; effect remains until end of game
Declare: PM
Effect: If either target player is drowned, the other one drowns as well.

These comfortable handcuffs can be slipped on discretely. In fact, the person wearing them won't even know they're there! Do not declare use of this item in the thread. Instead, send the GM a PM with the names of two people you'd like to see handcuffed together. If one of these people goes overboard, the other one goes as well!

---

Universal Innoculation - Daytime Item

Target: you
Usage: single use
Declare: automatic
Effect: Protects you from deaths caused by the Horrifying Brain Parasite, Rat Poison Cocktail and Single Shot Derringer.

This cutting edge miracle of medicine offers protection against all forms of toxins, poisons, chemicals and harmful brain parasites. Helpfully enough, it also protects against deadly lead poisoning caused by gunshot wounds. This item will save you from any murder attempts that happen during the day. Warning: not effective against drowning or explosions.

---

$10,000 Bill - Nighttime Item

Target: one listed, unsold item
Usage: single use
Declare: PM
Effect: Buys target item.

Legal tender worth ten thousand American dollars. Use this instead of money when bidding on an item at that auction in order to automatically win that auction.

---

Adamantium Deadbolt - Nighttime Item

Target: you
Usage: once per night; if used, remains in effect until end of night
Declare: PM
Effect: All actions taken against you at night automatically fail, except receiving player PMs. You may not take any actions yourself, either. If you opt not to use the deadbolt on a given night you may act normally, but you may also be targetted normally.

This charming security feature installs tightly on the door to your room, protecting you from any and all forms of intrusion. All nighttime actions targeting you will automatically fail, but neither may you take any nighttime actions yourself. You may receive PMs, but you may not send any, nor use any items, nor hire any snitches, nor participate in any auctions. The Adamantium Deadbolt may be used, or not used, each night -- but the decision may only be made once, and must be made before you make any other nighttime actions. You're in, or you're out.

---

Coin Detumbler - Nighttime Item

Target: none
Usage: anytime
Declare: PM
Effect: Submit a list of players to the GM. Ties will be broken by selecting the player nearest to the top of the list, rather than randomly. The list may be updated as often as you like, but only during the night.

This tiny device sends out a uniquely-charged magnetic pulse that subtley affects the outcome of coin tosses. Nobody will ever be told the tie had been tampered with.

---


Counterfeiting Kit - Nighttime Item

Target: you
Usage: once per night
Declare: automatic
Effect: Gain $10 at the start of each night as long as you own this item.

This device quite literally prints money. The owner receives $10 at the start of each night for as long as the Counterfeiting Kit remains in his/her possession.

---

Crystal Ball - Nighttime Item

Target: one dead player
Usage: once per night
Declare: PM
Effect: You may PM any dead player and ask a single question. The reply will be as simple or as detailed as the dead player desires.

The dead tell no tales... unless you have this handy little device. Powered by nanomachines, the Crystal Ball allows you to ask a dead player of your choosing a single question. The Crystal Ball must sleep during the day, but may be used once each night.

---

Denavigator - Nighttime Item

Target: all players
Usage: single use; effect lasts until end of game
Declare: PM
Effect: Day ends the morning of Day Seven, rather than Day Six.

This tiny device sends out an electromagnetic pulse that scrambles the Jonathan Christian's navigation systems. The ship will spend an entire night traveling the wrong direction, requiring a full day to get back on course. This effectively pushes the end of the game off until the dawn of Day Seven. The Denavigator only works once, since the ship's crew will be more diligent for the rest of the journey.

---

Explosive Ear Bug - Nighttime Item

Target: one living player
Usage: single use
Declare: PM
Effect: Select a target at night. Any time during any subsequent day, send a PM to the GM to detonate the device, killing the target.

This tiny explosive device can be placed in someone's ear while they're sleeping. For some reason the detonator is solar powered, meaning the bomb can only be set off during the day.

---

Fly-on-the-wall - Nighttime Item

Target: one living player
Usage: single use; effect lasts until end of night
Declare: PM
Effect: You will receive a log of every PM your target sends during the night in which the item is used, but not who the messages were sent to.

This device is identical to a small housefly. It will sit on the wall of any player's room all night long and report that player's conversations back to its owner. It will report only what the target player says, not to whom s/he was speaking. Just before dawn, the Fly-on-the-wall's owner will receive a complete log of every PM the target sent that night. The Fly-on-the-wall has a short lifespan, and dies after being used once.

---

Hypnotron - Nighttime Item

Target: one snitch
Usage: single use; effect lasts until end of night
Declare: PM
Effect: Select one snitch you've hired tonight. That snitch will kill his target, rather than investigate him/her.

This device emits a precisely-tuned high-pitch whine capable of transforming a more-or-less peacable Snitch into a stone-hearted killer. Simply slip it into the Snitch's pocket as you send him on his way, and he will brutally murder his target rather than investigate him/her. Once the hypnotized Snitch comes around he will be consumed with guilt and throw himself overboard -- taking the Hypnotron with him.

---

Inflatable Underwear - Nighttime Item

Target: you
Usage: single use
Declare: automatic
Effect: You rejoin the game the morning after you are drowned. You may neither take nor be the target of any actions that night.

This somewhat uncomfortable undergarmant activates automatically should its wearer ever find him/herself dumped into the ocean. If the owner of this item is ever thrown overboard s/he will not drown, but instead be fished out of the water alive and well the following morning. A player who is floating at sea may take no nighttime actions whatsoever. Inflatable Underwear is one-time-use only, so please try not to be thrown over a second time.

---

Lifelike Body Double - Nighttime Item

Target: you
Usage: single use
Declare: automatic
Effect: Prevents death from Infiltrator murders, Hypnotron'd snitches, Transmogrified items and Stabbybot 20XX.

This full-sized mannequin looks EXACTLY like you. Anyone attempting to kill you during the night will kill the Body Double instead, leaving you to scheme for another day.

---

Pocket Inventory Analyist - Nighttime Item

Target: one living player
Usage: once per night
Declare: PM
Effect: Gives an account of the target's inventory and how much cash they have.

This tiny device will inventory a player's room and give a complete report of what items that player owns and how much money they have. The Pocket Inventory Analyist may be used once per night.

---

Powder of Unrequited Affection - Nighttime Item

Target: one living player
Usage: two single uses on separate nights; effect remains until end of game
Declare: PM
Effect: The target player may never directly kill you.

This potent drug makes one target fall hopelessly and piteously in love with you. Though it may be in his/her best interests to do so, the target player may never take any direct action to kill you, whether it be through item use or daytime accusation. (Indirect actions, however, can see you just as dead.) There is enough Powder of Unrequited Affection for two doses, though you only have time to administer one per night.

---

Quantum Discombobulator - Nighttime Item

Target: one sold item whose location you know
Usage: single use
Declare: PM
Effect: Take a single item from another player or from the ship's locker. You must know where the item is located for the effect to work.

This highly unstable device can be used to deconstruct a distant item into its component atoms and reconstruct them right in front of your eyes. It can be used to steal an item, but because your window of time is so narrow you must know EXACTLY where that item is. (The device also responds to incredibly lucky guesses.) You can use this to steal any item owned by another player if you know who has it, or you may use it to take an item from the ship's storage locker. It may not be used to take unsold items. Once used, the Quantum Discombobulator vanishes in a puff of logic.

---

R&D Tracking Device - Nighttime Item

Target: all used items
Usage: once per night
Declare: automatic
Effect: At the end of each Night Phase, you will receive a list of every item which has been used at some point during the game.

This device, pinched directly from R&D, is programmed with every piece of equipment being supplied for the voyage. However, the only piece of information it tracks is whether or not a specific item has been used. The R&D Tracking Device works automatically; just before dawn, the owner will receive a PM listing every item that has been used at least once.

---

Snitch-B-Gone - Nighttime Item

Target: you
Usage: n/a
Declare: automatic
Effect: Snitches are not able to investigate or murder you. Anyone who sends a Snitch after you will receive a refund.

This odorless spray-on concoction automatically repels Snitches. Any Snitches sent to investigate you will return to their employer without any information. (Don't worry; they'll get a full refund.) You'll never even know they were there.

---

Stabbybot 20XX - Nighttime Item

Target: one living player
Usage: single use
Declare: PM
Effect: Kills target player.

An adorable little robot buddy who stabs people with a gas-powered knifing mechanism. Declare your target, and Stabbybot will see him/her dead before sunrise.

---

Temporal Redistribulator - Nighttime Item

Target: one used, single use item you own
Usage: single use
Declare: PM
Effect: You may use the target item again on the next phase in which it would be legal to do so.

This device, patterned after a turn-of-the-century pocket watch, runs on unobtainium and possesses the ability to create small temporal distortion fields. Select any single-use item you own and, through the magic of the fourth dimension, you may use that item again. The Temporal Redistribulator contains 96.887% of the universe's supply of unobtainium, and can therefore only be used once.

---

Transmogrified Transmogrifier - Nighttime Item

Target: one item
Usage: single use
Declare: PM
Effect: Kills owner of this item.

Name any item. This device becomes an exact (but non-functional) replica of the named item. At this point the Transmogrifier is considered armed. At the end of the night, an armed Transmogrifier transforms into a ferocious tiger with a dim view on human nature and kills the player who owns it, before burning out and collapsing into a mass of useless grey goo.

---

Wireless Wiretap - Nighttime Item

Target: one living player
Usage: once per night
Declare: PM
Effect: You receive a log of everyone the target player communicated with at night, and the time of all incoming and outgoing PMs, but not what was said.

A USB dongle that can wirelessly monitor someone's conversations. Point it at someone's room, and you will receive a record of everyone that player corresponded with during the night. You will learn the quantity and time of both incoming and outgoing PMs -- but nothing about what was said. The Wireless Wiretap works all night long, but may only be pointed at one player per night.

Agent Prime
04-09-2011, 02:21 AM
Player List:

botticus
Byron
Destil
dwolfe
dtsund
Eddie
JohnB
kaisel
Karzac
Knight
Loki
McClain
Merus
Nich
poetfox
Repeater
shivam
spineshark
Tanto
Tock
Umby
VorpalEdge

---

The game will begin Saturday morning at 9:00 am EST with the initial Boarding Phase. A list of available items will be posted at that time... and let the games begin!

Agent Prime
04-09-2011, 09:39 AM
Boarding Phase

During this phase you may:

PM Agent Prime your auction bids. Remember bids can neither be changed nor retracted.


You may not:

Post in this thread.
PM any player.


The list of items available during Boarding is:

Magnificent Stovepipe Hat
Truth Detector
$10,000 Bill
Adamantium Deadbolt
Counterfeiting Kit
Fly-on-the-wall
Hypnotron
Inflatable Underwear
Snitch-B-Gone
Stabbybot 20XX

---

Items available on Night 1:

Ball Gag
Flying-Machine-Seeking Rocket Launcher
Horrifying Brain Parasite
Shoulder-Mounted Flying Machine
Single Shot Derringer
Universal Innoculation
Coin Detumbler
Crystal Ball
Quantum Discombobulator
Temporal Redistribulator

---

Items available on Night 2:

Fake Will
Incriminating Evidence
Infiltration Sensor
Memory Distortion Field
Rat Poison Cocktail
Telepathic Sunglasses
Unbreakable Handcuffs
Denavigator
Lifelike Body Double
Pocket Inventory Analyst

---

Items available on Night 3:

Bright Neon Smugness Sticker
Danger Sensor
Neuroisotopic Vote Locker
Odorless Snoozebomb
RNG Hacking Device
Explosive Ear Bug
Powder of Unrequited Affection
R&D Tracking Device
Transmogrified Transmogrifier
Wireless Wiretap

Agent Prime
04-10-2011, 09:15 AM
The passengers of the Jonathan Christian barely had time to settle into their respective rooms before the ship pulled away from Buenos Aires. The weather was quite rough today; as soon the city was out of sight, the huge plumes billowing out of the smokestacks were indistinguishable from the clouds swirling above. The ship rocked back and forth as if attempting to lighten its load by throwing its passengers aside. It wouldn't have been too successful, though, for most were staying below deck.

A commanding voice rattled off over the speakers: "Attention all passengers! Could we please have those who are participating in the Queen's Annual Pinochle Tournament to the East Ballroom? I repeat, could we please have the participants of the Queen's Annual Pinochle Tournament to the East Ballroom? Thank you."

"Oh, I can't be late!" she mumbled as she ran along the deck, parasol in one hand and a small book in the other. She hurried along until a wave hit the side of the ship and she stumbled, losing her balance. She cried out as she toppled, but before she could hit the deck, someone rushed over and caught her.

"My goodness!" she said as she steadied herself. "Thank you, um..."

"Call me Eddie," he said, brushing himself off. His voice was warm, which she found comforting amidst the bluster.

"Well, thank you very much, Eddie," she replied with a small curtsy.

He smiled and gestured behind her. "I believe that's your book?"

"Oh! Thank you again! I suppose I shouldn't be rude. I'm p--" When poetfox turned back, the gentleman was gone. She didn't have time to wonder, though, for she had to hurry to the ballroom.

When she finally burst through the doors, a surly man threw his hands up in the air. "Finally! Can we get this thing started already?"

"For God's sake, Vorpal, lay off the girl. She just got here," a long-haired man said, rolling his eyes. She glanced over at him and noticed a nametag with "Knight" pinned on his lapel. She looked around, sheepish, until she noticed the table with a lone nametag on it. As soon as she pinned it on her blouse, the doors opened and a porter entered, pushing a phonograph in front of him. As soon as he left the room, the lights dimmed and suddenly, the phonograph began to churn. A light shone from the horn and everyone turned toward the south wall. A bearded gentleman with dark lenses was projected onto the wall, and he began to speak in an even tone:

Greetings, applicants. We hope that your journey to Buenos Aires was smooth, and that you find the accomodations more than suitable.

As you already know, you are here in hopes of securing employment with our esteemed organization. We are glad to see that you all have chosen to accept our invitation... and yes, we can see you.

Look around you. This is your competition. All in all, twenty-one of the best spies in the world are in this room. One of them is trying to kill you. All of them are trying to win.

As for protecting yourself and/or carrying out your objective, you are not limited to the using the items we are offering via auction. You may choose to eliminate a member of your group by voting to throw them overboard during the day. There needs to be a majority vote on this for it to succeed.

And speaking of objectives... It seems that we do indeed have an uninvited guest within our midst. Make sure this straggler is eliminated by the time you reach Nassau, or we will be forced to take you all out of the running.

Good luck to you all, and we hope you enjoy your trip."

The image flickered off the wall, and the lights came up.

Chaos ensued. Nodal started waving his finger at shivam. Tock, Repeater, and Tanto engaged in fisticuffs. McClain waved his cane and yelled that there was no way he was going to die first, and Umby covered his eyes, muttering something about not trusting "The Brick".

Finally, Nich stepped forward. "Listen, everyone! We can't act like this! What we need is to sit down and formulate a plan to--"

"Look, I don't know who died and made this motherfucker the boss, but I say we just throw somebody overboard and figure shit out later!" JohnB screamed from the back of the crowd.

"I don't think that's the best idea," Byron said calmly. "Why don't we hear the guy out?"

"Yeah, that sounds like something a traitor would like for us to do," Tock scoffed.

"What did you say?" Byron said, lifting his goggles, his voice as cold as his gaze.

Tock got right up in Byron's face. "You heard me... traitor."

As Byron lunged for Tock's throat, the whole place erupted. poet stood by the edge, watching as everyone went for each other's throats. Suddenly, a familiar voice whispered in her ear: "Looks like this'll be some party, huh?"

poetfox laughed, not even needing to look at the nametag. "It sure does, Eddie. It sure does."

Day One has begun.

---

Day Phase 1

During this phase you may:

Post in the thread.
Make, change or retract accusations.
Use any Daytime Item you own.


You may not:

PM any player.
Use any Nighttime Item.

Karzac
04-10-2011, 09:35 AM
Brickroad, that is the greatest flavour ever.

Eddie
04-10-2011, 09:36 AM
"Gentlemen."

A tall, lithe man strolls over to the piano in the ballroom. He is wearing spectacles, and a slight amount of stubble. As he sits down, he starts to play. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPmruHc4S9Q)

Karzac
04-10-2011, 09:36 AM
Or Luana, I guess. I shouldn't assume that one of you wrote it.

dtsund
04-10-2011, 09:41 AM
Catching the Infiltrator: The Easy Way

by dtsund



Okay, here's the plan I propose. Everyone take a good hard look at the player list posted by Agent Prime. Currently, it's in alphabetical order, like so:

botticus
Byron
Destil
dwolfe
dtsund
Eddie
JohnB
kaisel
Karzac
Knight
Loki
McClain
Merus
Nich
poetfox
Repeater
shivam
spineshark
Tanto
Tock
Umby
VorpalEdge

(Saved here for posterity to prevent the GM from potentially trying to mess with the plan by scrambling the list in the OP. I wouldn't put it past him.)

Everybody who has the funds to do so: send two snitches to investigate the guy below you tonight (modulo the bottom of the list; VorpalEdge should look at botticus if they both survive the day). The worst-case scenario is that ten of us will have already spent all of their moneys during the Boarding Phase and won't be able to do this, but even this leaves us with a (slightly) better-than-even shot of someone getting two different snitch results and thus immediately knowing who the Infiltrator is.

In that vein, if we fail to get results from this, we should take a good hard look at the person on the list immediately below whomever is nightkilled. It's likely that he/she will have been killed to prevent the report from coming outing the Infiltrator. Give similar scrutiny to the person with Snitch-B-Gone, and likewise if someone deploys the Adamantium Deadbolt.

Okay, so it isn't perfect, but it should help narrow down the list of possible Infiltrators quite dramatically.

Merus
04-10-2011, 09:43 AM
So. Considering that the Infiltrator is one person, and thus extremely likely to be able to keep their story straight, there's hardly any point trying to catch them in a lie. I could easily encourage everyone to reveal their kill target, and whoever dupes up is likely to be the Infiltrator, but we can't prove it for a while, and that will make the rest of the game trickier (though, I imagine, not much trickier.)

Frankly, there's not a lot I can do in this game.

Therefore: I'm going to call for help.

http://www.hipsterchic.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/juno-cheeseburger-phone.jpg
(someone let me know if this turns into a picture of a penis or something)

Karzac
04-10-2011, 09:46 AM
That's a decent plan, dtsund, but there's also the Stabbybot and the Hypnotron out there. There's a decent chance that three people will die tonight, leaving us with little information adn a lot less money.

Tanto
04-10-2011, 09:47 AM
Weird ruleset, huh? In theory a player could accomplish all of his objectives -- killing his target, the Infiltrator, and (just to be safe) the guy targeting him -- on the first Day and have nothing else to do for the rest of the game except try to stay alive.

It's also a little strange in that players don't really have to defend their accusations. In a team-based game, if someone spearheads a lynch and that person ends up innocent, the lyncher will usually have to answer for their mistake, but here they can just shrug and say "He was my target" or "I was his target" and it's a perfectly defensible position.

It's also a little weird in that the most trustworthy player for each person (at least initially) is their target. You may be out for their blood, but at least you know they're not the Infiltrator. This probably goes without saying, but you probably want to be wary of anyone who comes to you during the Night with an offer of alliance, especially if they don't have any solid information except that you're both innocent. They might be trying to squeeze you for all your information before killing you.

We could isolate the Infiltrator fairly quickly by simply revealing our targets, actually. The only player who isn't anyone's target would have to be the Infiltrator, wouldn't they? I don't think our hosts would make the game miles easier for one player by giving them a target who was also the Infiltrator. We could then toss him overboard and spend the rest of the cruise fighting over player-killing items. Of course, mass reveals are notoriously difficult to get off the ground, so I don't have much hope of this one happening.

dwolfe
04-10-2011, 09:56 AM
I'm assuming there's 10 items out in play today/tonight. Please think carefully before revealing if you won one or more items.

McClain
04-10-2011, 10:06 AM
The problem with a full target reveal, obviously, is the other half of our win conditions. Getting the infiltrator early would be nice, but it would expose everyone and lead to a whole lot of chaos.

Plus, there's little chance everyone would play along.

What's interesting is that we have a LOT of ways to kill each other, and the traditional lynch is not something we have to do. On what "evidence" could we push a lynch at this point?

I'm interested in dtsund's plan. Perhaps we stonewall a lynch today, take our losses, call some snitches and go with that information in the morning?

Karzac
04-10-2011, 10:09 AM
I'm interested in dtsund's plan. Perhaps we stonewall a lynch today, take our losses, call some snitches and go with that information in the morning?

Like I said though, what happens if three people turn up dead in the morning? I don't think we learn how each of them died, so we won't know which one the Infiltrator targeted.

It's a decent plan, but I think some kinks need to be worked out before I'm willing to spend twenty bucks on it.

poetfox
04-10-2011, 10:11 AM
Also consider that after tonight, people will be able to make alliances in the shadows. There's a much greater chance of two or more people making an alliance and skewing the information after this upcoming night phase. We have a bit of an opportunity here that we are going to lose after we start PMing back and forth. I don't claim to know how to put that to use, but the snitch plan seems incredibly likely to fail because of this.

Karzac
04-10-2011, 10:12 AM
Also consider that after tonight, people will be able to make alliances in the shadows. There's a much greater chance of two or more people making an alliance and skewing the information after this upcoming night phase. We have a bit of an opportunity here that we are going to lose after we start PMing back and forth. I don't claim to know how to put that to use, but the snitch plan seems incredibly likely to fail because of this.

That's a good point. Even without the Infiltrator's involvement, it might be in the best interests of somebody to skew the results so that their target gets killed.

Knight
04-10-2011, 10:28 AM
Nice. Loving the flavor text stuff.

I agree with dtsund's plan. We could make an agreement to not use our killing items tonight (if we have them), to make outing the Infiltrator easier. Waiting one night probably isn't going to kill you. Assuming we don't lynch anyone today, you got a 1 in 20 chance to get killed by the Infiltrator tonight. Then you just have to survive the lynching on the next day, which again, you still have pretty good odds of surviving, and then you can use your killing items, cap your target, and just focus on survival.

EDIT: Just to make sure I'm clear, everyone would have to make this agreement, to protect the identity of the killing item holders.

McClain
04-10-2011, 10:41 AM
No editing posts.

JohnB
04-10-2011, 10:43 AM
Heh. Now that dtsund is no longer the RNG I find myself clashing opinions with him again. Why should I spend $20 bucks on this? Really, why should all of us? This is a 6 day journey and I have little vested interested in revealing my goddamn target on Day 1. I mean, shit, the closest experience we have to this role is Javex in M8, and he fucked up FOR FREE. I'm going to keep my money, thanks, and kill my motherfucking primary target. The infiltrator is secondary. Besides, we have weapons to purposefully flush out the infiltrator. He/She will be an easier catch without another grand sweeping plan. We are not a Town and you fuckers are not exactly my allies.

Umby
04-10-2011, 10:48 AM
Hello, fellow gentlemen and gentlewomen. Shall we get this show on the road?

I agree that dtsund's plan is a good one, however, it could possibly done with only one snitch sent to the person below each person on the list. If everyone reports their results accurately, there should be two people going for the same person. Then, we just lynch one of the two and see if they're the Infiltrator. If not, then the other person is. It takes trust, but I understand that if anyone is to trust, it'd be all my fellow spies.

poetfox
04-10-2011, 10:51 AM
Yeah, Knight. You could edit to remove evidence, so that's something frowned upon. Let typos, etc, stand, and double post if you need to.

Here's a thought I just had while showering.

Post-Count analysis still seems very viable in rooting out the Infiltrator. Since we all have our attention pointed at one particular player who is not the infiltrator, someone barely posting could easily slip through our grasp much easier, potentially. Let's not just pretend that our discussion here has no relevance on the game. It may be less than usual, but it is still important.

Besides, we have weapons to purposefully flush out the infiltrator. He/She will be an easier catch without another grand sweeping plan. We are not a Town and you fuckers are not exactly my allies.
Who is this "we"? If we're not a town, the only person whose tools should matter to you are the ones you have. Even stuff like the Truth Detector can be manipulated in the wrong hands. Or are you simply trusting everyone else to pick up your slack? It's pretty clear the Infiltrator is the primary objective here.

Tanto
04-10-2011, 11:01 AM
I'm going to keep my money, thanks, and kill my motherfucking primary target. The infiltrator is secondary. Besides, we have weapons to purposefully flush out the infiltrator. He/She will be an easier catch without another grand sweeping plan. We are not a Town and you fuckers are not exactly my allies.

I'm going to disagree with you, here. The only way the Infiltrator has a chance of slipping through is if the Applicants are working at cross-purposes trying to accomplish their individual goals. The Infiltrator is the only aspect of the game in which all players are equally invested, and it would be a shame to waste the kind of power the Applicants can bring to bear by working as a unit.

In other words, one or two players might succeed by hanging back and letting other players do their dirty work... but if everyone does that, we all lose. Anyone who tries should be called on it.

Kylie
04-10-2011, 11:22 AM
*extracts one of Tock's teeth from his shoulder, cleans a fleck of blood off of his goggles, and straightens up* Ladies, gentlemen, contemporaries in the Finest Industry in the World. That man is the son of a motherless whore, but he has a punch like a rhinoceros, and no two-faced pansied turncoat could ever participate in Men's Fisticuffs.

I am happy to investigate this "destil" fellow, as he seems like a bit of a raw cod to me. But this puts my finances, and therefore my future livelihood, in question - and I somehow doubt that the plan's engineers are willing to reimburse my expenses, given that there's a chance one of them is trying to kill me, and a man never survives in THIS business by taking risks. But a single investigation might not go amiss.

I did find it amusing to note that there's a name on the list that isn't properly in alphabetical order! But that, I suppose, is apropos of nothing. I shall leave a mint in my belongings for Botticus, for when his fellow rifles through my things. There's no need to be uncivil about any of this, after all.

kaisel
04-10-2011, 11:25 AM
Well, this is going to entertaining.

We do need to find out who the Infiltrator is, while I want to make sure my target dies, I'd rather make sure that I have a chance of winning, if we don't knock off the Infiltrator, we all lose, and really, Day Phase is going to be all about trying to find the Infiltrator.

And trying to use that to have our targets tossed overboard, which... well, that's what happens when everyone is looking out for themselves.

Also while we're not a town, basically 19/22 (if I got my counting right) are essentially allies, to me. The only people who I really want to bite the dust are: my target, the Infiltrator, and the guy or gal targeting me. The rest of you, I have no qualms with.

Snitch plan I think is a no-go, as JohnB pointed out, we're not a town, and I can see some people wanting to use that misinformation to get their target killed, rather than trying to catch the Infiltrator. And it would be pretty easy for someone to say that they didn't have the funds as well, if they didn't want to participate, we don't know what items everyone has.

dtsund
04-10-2011, 11:26 AM
What Knight said about the use of killing items. Hold off on your stabbity urges if you can; you need the Infiltrator to die too, and sabotaging a plan to find out who he is isn't to your benefit.

(I doubt the Infiltrator bought either of the killing items.)

Heh. Now that dtsund is no longer the RNG I find myself clashing opinions with him again. Why should I spend $20 bucks on this? Really, why should all of us? This is a 6 day journey and I have little vested interested in revealing my goddamn target on Day 1. I mean, shit, the closest experience we have to this role is Javex in M8, and he fucked up FOR FREE. I'm going to keep my money, thanks, and kill my motherfucking primary target. The infiltrator is secondary. Besides, we have weapons to purposefully flush out the infiltrator. He/She will be an easier catch without another grand sweeping plan. We are not a Town and you fuckers are not exactly my allies.

Come now. You need the Infiltrator dead just as much as the rest of us do... unless you're the Infiltrator yourself, of course, and are just trying to derail a plan you think will out you. Hm.

And given the 'intended' use of the Snitches, there was always a pretty good chance of your target being known by somebody starting on the first night.

Hello, fellow gentlemen and gentlewomen. Shall we get this show on the road?

I agree that dtsund's plan is a good one, however, it could possibly done with only one snitch sent to the person below each person on the list. If everyone reports their results accurately, there should be two people going for the same person. Then, we just lynch one of the two and see if they're the Infiltrator. If not, then the other person is. It takes trust, but I understand that if anyone is to trust, it'd be all my fellow spies.

See, I don't really like this, because it basically forces all of the kill targets to become completely public knowledge. With the two-Snitch plan, all that needs to happen is someone comes forward with the knowledge that the next person down on the list is the Infiltrator.



Anyway, my other plan going in to today was to wait and see whether someone tried to strongly oppose this plan and accuse him, because the Infiltrator will most definitely not want it to go through. Therefore...

I accuse JohnB.

Maybe we'll get lucky and off the Infiltrator on Day 1.

kaisel
04-10-2011, 11:31 AM
See, I don't really like this, because it basically forces all of the kill targets to become completely public knowledge. With the two-Snitch plan, all that needs to happen is someone comes forward with the knowledge that the next person down on the list is the Infiltrator.


The other problem with this as well is if someone ends up learning that the person below them on the list is targeting them. You really don't want the guy trying to kill you to know that you're onto him.

spineshark
04-10-2011, 11:41 AM
So, okay, suppose this plan finds our collective target. And let's say that somehow we can even be sure it's the one we're looking for. (Which I'm already not sold on) Then what? We decide by some bizarre collective who gets to win?

Oh, I guess it's the people who still have $80 left over with which to win something useful. Okay.

shivam
04-10-2011, 12:17 PM
I don't know that spending a fifth of my available cash like that is a good call on day one, especially as not everyone will do it, and the auctions are incredibly limited. And i'm willing to bet that at least one or two of you guys went in whole hog for some of those awesome items today.

shivam
04-10-2011, 12:20 PM
also, i don't really understand this sentence-- "Snitches that are sent to investigate the Infiltrator will report the name of a randomly-selected living Applicant. "

If i investigate Parish, to pick a poster not playing, and the snitch replies with Sharkey, won't i know automatically that the player is the infiltrator? Or are we to take the sentence to mean that by investigating parish, the snitch will investigate kat instead and report back that kat is an applicant?

Karzac
04-10-2011, 12:24 PM
also, i don't really understand this sentence-- "Snitches that are sent to investigate the Infiltrator will report the name of a randomly-selected living Applicant. "

If i investigate Parish, to pick a poster not playing, and the snitch replies with Sharkey, won't i know automatically that the player is the infiltrator? Or are we to take the sentence to mean that by investigating parish, the snitch will investigate kat instead and report back that kat is an applicant?

The Snitch tells you who that Applicant's target is. The Infiltrator has no specific target, so when you send a Snitch after him/her, you'll instead get the name of a random Applicant. Make sense?

shivam
04-10-2011, 12:28 PM
ah, thanks for the clarification.

botticus
04-10-2011, 12:31 PM
The other problem with this as well is if someone ends up learning that the person below them on the list is targeting them. You really don't want the guy trying to kill you to know that you're onto him.

I imagine that might also be a reason someone wouldn't want to move with this plan. If the person above them in the list is their target, they don't really want that to be known as early as Day 2.

McClain
04-10-2011, 12:34 PM
If we all go a-killin' our targets right away, it'll take away the one piece of information we all know as FACT and reduce the pool for the lone gunman to pick the rest of us off.

If, however, we all go about voting for folks that AREN'T our targets, then we have a non-zero chance of killing the infiltrator. It's a long shot, but it's better than reducing our numbers right away trying to kill our primary targets.

Right now, my enemy is my best source of reliable information.

Karzac
04-10-2011, 12:36 PM
If we all go a-killin' our targets right away, it'll take away the one piece of information we all know as FACT and reduce the pool for the lone gunman to pick the rest of us off.

If, however, we all go about voting for folks that AREN'T our targets, then we have a non-zero chance of killing the infiltrator. It's a long shot, but it's better than reducing our numbers right away trying to kill our primary targets.

Right now, my enemy is my best source of reliable information.

This makes sense, but I don't think dtsund's plan is the best way to go about it.

spineshark
04-10-2011, 12:40 PM
I don't know that spending a fifth of my available cash like that is a good call on day one, especially as not everyone will do it, and the auctions are incredibly limited. And i'm willing to bet that at least one or two of you guys went in whole hog for some of those awesome items today.
It's possible, but this isn't like M10 (except in cases where two people bid the same amount). If I bid $100 and the next highest bid is $30, I get the item for $31. If multiple people bid $100, one of them pays $100 for the item. If multiple people bid the same less-than-$100 amount, then one or more of them can attempt to break the tie by agreeing to pay all of their available money (that is, anything that hasn't been spent or is currently bid). If that still leaves a tie, then it's random again. If nobody goes for that offer, then nobody wins.

dtsund
04-10-2011, 12:54 PM
I like plan of dtsund. Like to keep money, so thought maybe vote poetfox today. Then I not need to snitch her. But if JohnB stay stubborn, thinking maybe vote him instead. Plan needs collective effort. Community. Thinking he is capitalist pig valuing money over success.

To be clear, if poetfox were to die today, the plan would have you going to the next person down (Repeater), who would otherwise go uninvestigated.

Tanto
04-10-2011, 01:25 PM
Just out of curiosity, is Nich referencing Rorshach or Pygmy?

McClain
04-10-2011, 01:31 PM
I thought he was just doing generic spy telegraph, but I suppose it could be something specific.

spineshark
04-10-2011, 01:36 PM
He is Soviet Russian. "Capitalist Pig?" Come on.

Eddie
04-10-2011, 01:45 PM
One of the problems with the unordered list is the potential for targets to be next to another, which presents two problems:


If the person who is supposed to scan you is your target, you can't go along with this plan without being revealed.
If the person who you're supposed to scan is your target, you can effectively save $20


We might be able to fix this by creating our "own" list. We would create it by having one person name an applicant who is not their target. That person would then likewise do the same, with the catch that they cannot name a player who has already participated. It would continue until the last person left would have no one they could "choose", so the effective applicant they would choose would be the one who started the chain.

So, for example, assume there are 5 players, Parish, Sharkey, Kohler, Manna, and Brick. Assume that each applicant's target is as follows:

Parish => Sharkey
Sharkey => Kohler
Kohler => Manna
Manna => Parish
Brick = Infiltrator


Kohler is randomly chosen to start, and he picks someone who isn't his target, which means he doesn't choose Manna, but instead picks one of the other three players. Let's say he chooses Parish.
Parish has to then choose from Sharkey, Manna, and Brick. He can't choose Sharkey (as it's his target) so he has to choose Manna or Brick. He chooses Brick.
Brick is the infiltrator, so he has to pick randomly. He can only choose Sharkey or Manna, and chooses Manna.
Manna must pick Sharkey as he is the only player left unpicked.
Sharkey, being last, therefore picks Kohler


That night, each player sends out two snitches not to their target, but rather to the person who picked them.


Parish will see that Kohler is targeting Manna.
Brick will (probably) announce that Parish is (incorrectly) the infiltrator if pushed.
Manna will see that Brick is the infiltrator.
Sharkey will see that Manna is targeting Parish
Kohler will see that Sharkey is targeting him.


Brick's left with few good choices; if he kills Manna, they can lynch him. If he kills someone else, Manna will announce he's the infiltrator.

So in sum, we achieve what dtsund's plan does, but only one player (the last one) is potentially forced to choose their target (and thus will be revealed at night). I'm not 100% sure if doing the above will ALWAYS result in one person finding out who is targeting them (maybe the more math-able people could tell me?), but if so, it might be a small sacrifice, and at least they have to spend money to find that out.

Regardless improving dtsund's plan sounds worthwhile.

- Eddie

McClain
04-10-2011, 01:54 PM
It still doesn't deal with the problem of what happens when possibly several people die tonight. I'm arguing that tonight would be a bad time to kill your target, but that probably won't stop someone(s) from doing it anyhow.

Karzac
04-10-2011, 02:00 PM
It still doesn't deal with the problem of what happens when possibly several people die tonight. I'm arguing that tonight would be a bad time to kill your target, but that probably won't stop someone(s) from doing it anyhow.

Not to mention that the Infiltrator might have one or more of the killing items and they if this plan is put into action, they will almost certainly use them.

JohnB
04-10-2011, 02:08 PM
Come now. You need the Infiltrator dead just as much as the rest of us do... unless you're the Infiltrator yourself, of course, and are just trying to derail a plan you think will out you. Hm.

Brilliant goddamn Batman-level analysis here.

Anyway, my other plan going in to today was to wait and see whether someone tried to strongly oppose this plan and accuse him, because the Infiltrator will most definitely not want it to go through. Therefore...

I accuse JohnB.

Maybe we'll get lucky and off the Infiltrator on Day 1.

This double-think plan is clearly of Byronic/Nichean/Machiavellian comport, too. Yes, OF FUCKING COURSE THE ONE VOICE OUT OF TWENTY TWO PLAYERS WHO IS ON EVERYBODY'S SHIT LIST IS GOING TO PUBLICLY DISAGREE WITH YOUR SHITTY PLAN! YOU'VE BROKEN THE GAME WIDE OPEN! WE SHOULD CROWN YOU THE KING RIGHT NOW!

In other words, "I spent two minutes thinking of this strategy, and because I thought of it, and I'm awesome, it must be right!" Anyone who disagrees is the infiltrator! OF FUCKING COURSE! EUREKA!

Give me a fucking break.

JohnB
04-10-2011, 02:10 PM
Thinking he is capitalist pig valuing money over success.

Money = options = greater path to personal victory. I'm not here to win this for dtsund.

JohnB
04-10-2011, 02:12 PM
I'm going to disagree with you, here. The only way the Infiltrator has a chance of slipping through is if the Applicants are working at cross-purposes trying to accomplish their individual goals. The Infiltrator is the only aspect of the game in which all players are equally invested, and it would be a shame to waste the kind of power the Applicants can bring to bear by working as a unit.

In other words, one or two players might succeed by hanging back and letting other players do their dirty work... but if everyone does that, we all lose. Anyone who tries should be called on it.

We have, what, five nights to toss people overboard? I'd expect a number of people to either not cooperate or intentionally screw with dtsund's plan, rendering the analysis incomplete and thus less useful. Less useful enough, in my eyes, to not waste twenty dollars on. So, I won't. I DON'T TRUST YOU PEOPLE.

McClain
04-10-2011, 02:23 PM
As much as I'd love to throw JohnB* overboard, he's reacting exactly the way I would expect him to react. I don't think he's suspicious for disagreeing with us (motherfuckers).

*since it's been proven that one of us has to die in the first cycle.

Destil
04-10-2011, 03:15 PM
Thoughts:

dtsund's suggestion is intetresting, and if dwolfe is killed by the infiltraor tonight it'll be extra interesting. I think that it's got some holes, but much like the 'Everyone reveal your target' the biggest hole is getting people to play along.

If an agent bought it last night I'd suggest they find someone who isn't their target and dosn't want to kill them, then pass it on tonight so we can star cutting down hiding places.

Also, how does everyone feel about throwing the person with Inflatable Underwear over a second time without question? If I were the infiltraor that would be the top pick from the list yesterady. Any agent willing to cop to bidding $100 and loosing?

It also dosn't get us anywhere today. We don't have any information yet. Personally, I like to look at things via risk-assessment in these games. Of the players onboard, these are the ones I think will give us the most issues it fhey're the infiltraor:

Byron
Destil ;)
JohnB
Merus
Nich

And thus, aside from myself, I'm willing to toss anyone on that list off today. To start:

I accuse Nich.

He's creative, more thatn willing to spin a good lie, and has wrecked his share of games in various ways [M2 M3 M4]. If he's the infiltrator I want him in at the bottom of the sea before he can do any damage.

Destil
04-10-2011, 03:16 PM
If an agent bought it last night I'd suggest they find someone who isn't their target and doesn't want to kill them, then pass it on tonight so we can star cutting down hiding places.

Note: this refers to the stovepipe hat. Editing failure and all that.

Destil
04-10-2011, 03:22 PM
Well, now I am knowing who is assigned to kill me. Good information to have.
Because the best move for me to make is just to announce that for everyone. Right.

poetfox
04-10-2011, 03:33 PM
I would think the top item to bid for, if you were the Infiltrator, would be the Counterfeiting Kit, as your game plan has to be to pick up the flying machine and the anti-flying machine, doesn't it? I don't buy your inflatable underpants analysis, Destil.

JohnB is not being a team player and is unwilling to work with people on principal, which is not a good thing. However, he is completely right about dstund's plan, which simply will not work. One or two people going off plan, and there will be at least one or two, if not more, will make the information mostly useless. Eddie's modification is more sensible to convince people to be on board, but still gives information that's likely to be useless for the exact same reasons. Throw in night deaths on top of that, and you've got a plan with no payoff.

Everyone who is pro-plan, I would suggest figuring out a way to set this up in secret at night. You can talk before you send snitches. Come up with a group you trust and do it that way, instead of having tons of moving parts you can't depend on, and get the information you want. For now, though, we need to abandon this plan in public and come up with something actually viable.

JohnB
04-10-2011, 03:36 PM
Everyone who is pro-plan, I would suggest figuring out a way to set this up in secret at night. You can talk before you send snitches. Come up with a group you trust and do it that way, instead of having tons of moving parts you can't depend on, and get the information you want. For now, though, we need to abandon this plan in public and come up with something actually viable.

This, at least, makes sense. I just have visions of people spending the next (48 hours only!!) five day phases bickering over the Day 2 results of dtsund's strategy, and that is not the kind of bullshit I want to be talking about during the day. More or less, to be blunt, dtsund's plan has holes and we will be wasting valuable time during shorter day phases talking about this bullshit rather than figuring out more constructive things to do.

dtsund
04-10-2011, 03:46 PM
I'm not here to win this for dtsund.

And I'm not here to win this for you. I have a plan to catch the Infiltrator, and you'd rather not help. Notice that there are a significant number of other people on board. Either you're the Infiltrator, in which case I want you dead anyway, or you're an unhelpful Agent, in which case you're no use to me alive. Either way, my vote stands.

As for the 'someone might find out that I'm targeting them' thing, each player only has a roughly 1/20 chance of that happening to them from this. I'm willing to take that risk, personally, since I don't really see a way around that one (yet). Maybe have each player post a short list of people he's okay with being inspected by, since he's not targeting them?

In case we go down that path, I freely say this now...

*goes to random.org to get a few names he's not targeting*

...I am not gunning for VorpalEdge, Destil, or Karzac.

One or two people going off plan, and there will be at least one or two, if not more, will make the information mostly useless.

How so? All that needs to happen is for one person to get back two conflicting responses. Even if one or two people cop out, this is still very likely to happen.

Destil
04-10-2011, 03:48 PM
I would think the top item to bid for, if you were the Infiltrator, would be the Counterfeiting Kit, as your game plan has to be to pick up the flying machine and the anti-flying machine, doesn't it? I don't buy your inflatable underpants analysis, Destil.

No one's targeting the infiltrator at night unless we figure out who he is. Therefore the only defense he needs is against lynches, because if we figure out who it is. It's unlikely for a player to buy two killing items (because thoes should go for a premium) so most will just be pointed at someone's target.

The counterfeiting kit is a gamble, and I'd suspect someone overpaid on it. If the flying machine comes up tomorrow you've most likely prevented yourself from buying it by bidding enough to win the kit during boarding. Likewise the two don't work together well: whoever buys the kit wants the game to go as long as possible, while the flying machine lets you end the game early.

If the infiltrator bought the kit last night I'll tell you outright they overpaid in fact, due to my own bid on it and how much money it would produce before the flying machine lets them escape.

VorpalEdge
04-10-2011, 03:53 PM
How much did you bid on the counterfeiting kit, Destil?

Destil
04-10-2011, 03:56 PM
$20. If they fly off day four, it would barely break even if they bought it for $21 or mote.

Repeater
04-10-2011, 04:00 PM
They're for sure not breaking even then, I bid a little more than that. That being said the day four game is almost as risky as the six or seven day game as there is a solid chance of burning up all of your money on a useless launcher and having nothing left for the vehicle itself or being forced to wit the game out until the person with the launcher is killed. So I don't think we should immediately rule out an infiltrator in this for the long game.

Destil
04-10-2011, 04:04 PM
*goes to random.org to get a few names he's not targeting*

...I am not gunning for VorpalEdge, Destil, or Karzac.
I used a d20 removing myself and my target from the list, if that's okay.

My targets do not include spineshark, poetfox and.... TOCK!?!

Karzac
04-10-2011, 04:04 PM
I bid 80 on the Kit and lost, so somebody definitely spent a handsome amount for it.

dtsund
04-10-2011, 04:05 PM
I bid 80 on the Kit and lost, so somebody definitely spent a handsome amount for it.

o_O

Just... why would you spend that much?

Umby
04-10-2011, 04:07 PM
I bid $30 for the Counterfitting Kit myself, just because anything more wouldn't make a lot of sense!

I'm wondering about your statement, Destil, about the stovepipe hat. Can someone wear it, take it off, and pass it around? Or what?

Karzac
04-10-2011, 04:07 PM
o_O

Just... why would you spend that much?

Looking back, I'm not actually sure. I think I had some reasons, but they weren't very good ones. I'm a Canadian Studies major, it's been a while since I had to do math.

In any case, I'm glad that I cost somebody a whole lot of money.

Destil
04-10-2011, 04:08 PM
The kit can produce at most $70... and that's if the denavigator is used.

Man, I knew a reasonable bid wasn't going to win that thing, but...

Karzac
04-10-2011, 04:09 PM
The kit can produce at most $70... and that's if the denavigator is used.

Man, I knew a reasonable bid wasn't going to win that thing, but...

Like I said, I fucked somebody over, so I guess it was a good move.

Repeater
04-10-2011, 04:10 PM
I'm wondering about your statement, Destil, about the stovepipe hat. Can someone wear it, take it off, and pass it around? Or what?

Rules say that it can be used anytime. So, I guess so.

Destil
04-10-2011, 04:10 PM
I'm wondering about your statement, Destil, about the stovepipe hat. Can someone wear it, take it off, and pass it around? Or what?

It's just an item. I suggest whoever has it wear it and pass it off tomorrow night to someone they 'trust'. If that means they send out two sniches so be it, I can't force them to but it would help us. The reason it would happen tomorrow night is tonight no on will have snich results before items have to be traded.

Destil
04-10-2011, 04:11 PM
Like I said, I fucked somebody over, so I guess it was a good move.

Possibly. Either we have a crippled infiltrator or one of out fellow players paid $81+ for it (and if it was $91+ then they can't afford two snitches).

poetfox
04-10-2011, 04:13 PM
How so? All that needs to happen is for one person to get back two conflicting responses. Even if one or two people cop out, this is still very likely to happen.

What's going to happen is that the Infiltrator is going to lie about having two conflicting responses against a random person. The people wanting to game your plan to kill their target are going to lie about having two conflicting responses against their target. Several people won't be checked, because their checker will die tonight. That's a lot of unchecked people. What will follow is us wasting days and days arguing about who to kill, who is lying, and who is not, which will get us nowhere at all.

Sure, someone could actually find the infiltrator, but they'll be no better off than if they had found him or her without your plan. They're still fighting an uphill battle to get everyone to believe them. These sorts of plans should be happening in private.

Destil, you make great points about my Counterfeiting Kit argument. That's my bad.

Karzac
04-10-2011, 04:14 PM
Possibly. Either we have a crippled infiltrator or one of out fellow players paid $81+ for it (and if it was $91+ then they can't afford two snitches).

I honestly don't care who I fucked over.

Destil
04-10-2011, 04:19 PM
Destil, you make great points about my Counterfeiting Kit argument. That's my bad.

The one thing this brings up is a very good point: The infiltrator is a single player. Not a team. They may very well not play in an optimal fashion, so we both want to looking for them making mistakes (agents can too, of course) and we need to be careful about giving them advice in the open about how they can 'totally win forever.'

I was happy to discuss the kit in the open because I know whoever bought it had already paid (and it turns out the infiltrator shot themselves in the foot if they bought it), but we need to be careful about talking for items that haven't come up for bidding yet.

Umby
04-10-2011, 04:19 PM
It's just an item. I suggest whoever has it wear it and pass it off tomorrow night to someone they 'trust'. If that means they send out two sniches so be it, I can't force them to but it would help us. The reason it would happen tomorrow night is tonight no on will have snich results before items have to be traded.

Realize, then, that if someone doesn't put it on, they're the Infiltrator. So essentially, we have a way of figuring out at least six people who aren't the infiltrator by passing it around. The only downside to passing it is that whoever is confirmed as townie will probably not get their target killed by day six without an item.

Umby
04-10-2011, 04:26 PM
Yeah, it's a huge target. I recommend whoever has it to keep it until a rainy day, of course, unless you have kill immunity by another item, in which case please remind all of us how awesome you are.

In other news, who are we throwing into the watery grave today?

JohnB
04-10-2011, 04:44 PM
In other news, who are we throwing into the watery grave today?

Well, neither Tock nor Loki has posted yet. Time to goad one of them into changing that. The other can die in a fire, natch.

I accuse Loki.

Loki
04-10-2011, 06:37 PM
*Jetpacks in*

Please excuse my tardiness. My last mission, Octorokpussy, got a little... shall we say, heated. Bartender, one vodka martini, you know how I like it.

(Vodka martinis fill up magic and health!)

I've spent a lot of time thinking about the arguments presented so far, and I'm for a unified plan to suss out the Infiltrator, if we can agree on one that works. I agree with a lot of what JohnB is saying about people manipulating the plan to get their target overboard, though not his crass way of putting it. There's only two weapons right now which leaves 19 of us trying to manipulate the drowning to our advantage.

However, what John seems adamant in ignoring is that if the Infiltrator lives, we all lose. It is in everyone's best interest to work selflessly at first. JohnB's cynical outlook has the ring of truth, to be sure. But he's really the only one voicing it. That gives me some hope.

Of course, he could be the infiltrator too, seeking refuge in audacity. He seems to have convinced some of us of his innocence. Which is the perfect place for the infiltrator to be.

One strategy that hasn't been voiced yet is the the Truth Detector. We can use it to evaluate a statement like

I am not the Infiltrator

We can ask anyone we seriously suspect to make such a statement and then scan it. If they are telling the truth we move on, if not we've found the Infiltrator. If they refuse, we'll that's pretty telling, isn't it.

Likewise, we should be scanning people's posts for statements like these. The Infiltrator is going to avoid such objective declarations in order to not get caught by the Truth Detector. People avoiding such statements are one's to keep on eye on.

Now, if you'll accuse me, I'm quite tired from my trip and on my way in I saw a pretty young thing on the Leto Deck who looked like she could use some company. I shall return in a bit to continue this conversation at length.

Ta!

JohnB
04-10-2011, 07:01 PM
This, at least, makes sense. I just have visions of people spending the next (48 hours only!!) five day phases bickering over the Day 2 results of dtsund's strategy, and that is not the kind of bullshit I want to be talking about during the day. More or less, to be blunt, dtsund's plan has holes and we will be wasting valuable time during shorter day phases talking about this bullshit rather than figuring out more constructive things to do.

I will clarify what I meant by this, in part. I've said before that my plan is to win- this obviously requires the death of the infiltrator. What I don't (or didn't (past tense)) like about dtsund's plan were the plot holes, and the fact that at the time it seemed like it was the only choice/option we had to suss the infiltrator out. To that, I say here are two facts:

1) We have six days/five nights to kill the infiltrator, not one (ie: everyone hop on the dtsund express today or get ready to swim).
2) We have items that can be used to identify further non-inspectors (such as the hat), thus creating a "bloc" (PAST ME CAN'T BELIEVE I JUST TYPED THAT) of more-or-less trusted non-infiltrators. That improves our odds.

BONUS FUN FACTS:
3) I want to win. Therefore, I want the infiltrator dead. Being a "team" player in that regard (20 other people want the bastard dead too) is a non-issue. What is an issue is following shitty, mostly worthless plans.

4) I am not the Infiltrator.

Also, I un-accuse Loki.

I accuse Tock.

McClain
04-10-2011, 07:03 PM
The infiltrator starts with $150.

If they bid $101 on the counterfeiter, he takes a tool away from us AND prints more money to stay ahead of the game. It's not a bad idea that our common foe might have picked it up.

Eddie
04-10-2011, 07:04 PM
Loki, your idea of the truth detector is a good one, but it can only be used once per day; we can all sit here and state "I am not the infiltrator" but at best only one person is cleared. Also: the person with the truth detector becomes a target for the infiltrator... but there is a point where we have to not worry about the repercussions of a vengeful infiltrator. Using multiple items to root him or her out would at least decrease the risk from being murdered overnight for agents individually; Therefore it might be worth using the hat and the truth detector.

Like I said, I fucked somebody over, so I guess it was a good move.

I kind of want to get back to the whole "Karzac tried to buy the counterfeiting kit for $80" thing. It just seems... so odd. I find it hard to believe that anyone, except the infiltrator, would spend $81 or more on a single item. I'm therefore inclined to suggest one of two possibilities:

1. Karzac is a lying son of a bitch and did purchase the kit for $80, and just is too embarrassed to admit it
2. Shivam purchased the counterfeiting kit for $81.

Option 1 would be plausible if you believed Karzac was fumbling when someone called him on it. Option 2 is backed up by metagame and this post by Shivam (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022564&postcount=28).

We're day 1 and have few leads if we don't wish to work together, so to the person with the truth detector I would scan the following:

I bid 80 on the Kit and lost, so somebody definitely spent a handsome amount for it. (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022724&postcount=62)

I would also like Shivam to tell us what he bid on each item. I've just got a hunch about him.

- Eddie

JohnB
04-10-2011, 07:11 PM
That's... fucking hilarious. What did you buy, shivam?

Destil
04-10-2011, 07:15 PM
One option for the truth detector would be cross-examination. Near the end of the day, I think the leader in votes should make the following statement, to be potentially truth-detectored:

"I am agent, with the objectives of killing (target name), the infiltrator and surviving."

That would give us the most bang-for-the-buck as far as information. And then we can hopefully throw someone else overboard.

The player using the truth detector then announces that they're giving it away (but not to whom) so that they're not night-killed as a way to take it out of the game. Yes, the infiltrator may get it, but that's still information.

Destil
04-10-2011, 07:17 PM
As long as we're talking about revealing bids, anyone willing to admit to dropping the full $100 on the underwear and not winning them? If I were an infiltrator that would be my top pick from yesterday...

Kylie
04-10-2011, 07:19 PM
If none of us win this game, Loki's first post will have been worth the price of admission. Also, Loki, I'm not on Leto Deck anymore. You rogue. ;)

Knight
04-10-2011, 07:38 PM
Wow, I didn't expect such high bids for items during the boarding phase. Makes the $32 I bid for Counterfeiting Kit seem pitiful by comparison.

McClain
04-10-2011, 07:43 PM
As long as we're talking about revealing bids, anyone willing to admit to dropping the full $100 on the underwear and not winning them? If I were an infiltrator that would be my top pick from yesterday...

How is that helpful? Two citizens could have tied for it (though betting $100 on anything day one would be silly), and admitting that you have no items and a fat wallet is just painting a bullseye on yourself.

Destil
04-10-2011, 08:00 PM
Because then we know anyone who doesn't drown when we throw them over is the infiltrator and needs to be drowned again.

McClain
04-10-2011, 08:11 PM
Because then we know anyone who doesn't drown when we throw them over is the infiltrator and needs to be drowned again.

But it could still be a citizen.

McClain
04-10-2011, 08:14 PM
I should add that it's likely that the infiltrator spent $101 on the life preserver, but your plan doesn't give us absolute truth like you implied.

Destil
04-10-2011, 08:14 PM
Hum, the rules make is sound like if there's a tie the bidders would be informed about the bidding war, but that may not be the case with a full $100 on an item, since they can't put in any extra money and it would just be random.

So I suppose it's possible that two agents both bit $100 and one randomly didn't get them. Ah, well.

Kylie
04-10-2011, 08:15 PM
The only loss there is a missed opportunity to throw the inflitrator overboard. There ARE no citizens, friendo.

McClain
04-10-2011, 08:18 PM
For what it's worth, with the balloon shorts coming up Day 1 like that, if anyone floats I would gamble on drowning them again. The smart move for the infiltrator would be to use his buying power for the insurance. But I wanted to make it clear that it wouldn't be for certain.

There's also the matter of the overspending for the counterfeiter to work out. My gut says that was a silly town move.

dwolfe
04-10-2011, 08:25 PM
dwolfe is on the case!

You have no idea how many years I've waited to use this link (let alone the photoshopped version thereof, made several years ago, which you will NOT see unless I survive till Day 3+):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0c/Davidwolfcover.jpg

Useful facts:

I bid 50$ on two different items and lost both bids. Neither were the counterfeiter (as I would never make the money back during the entire game).

The question is, who picked the offensive items, and who picked defensive.

I'm assuming some people are dying tonight from the offensive items, so some people fulfill the win condition of killing their target ASAP the first night. These people will try to not get killed in subsequent days (as none of us desire) to win by default.

Others picked defensive items to survive the game.

I can't see an informational item being worth +$50 when you could just send snitches multiple times multiple nights, no? 2*2*10$=40$ for the same effect.

I am not the infiltrator. (for truth testers out there)

I won no items during boarding and bid two $50 dollar bids.

I'm probably going to be killed for giving out that much information.

I will reveal my target if the majority wants to throw me overboard, right before I die...or I might randomly pick someone out of spite. I haven't decided yet.

The problem with the 'test X people below you with snitches' idea is that if you cheat and save your money for the next USEFUL item to kill your secret target, you are ahead of the game if everyone else does the snitch idea. It's a Nash equilibrium, and I don't mean Nash Bridges. Not that there's anything wrong with having an awesome car:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/NashBridgesPoster.jpg

i.e. Even if it's a great idea to test people with multi-Snitches, it behooves everyone to lie and say they did so regardless, as it leaves that individual at least as well off as they would be if they actually did so.

VorpalEdge
04-10-2011, 08:46 PM
What if we abused the truth detector, i.e. had it evaluate a statement like "the infiltrator is in the top half of the player list"? And then kept narrowing that down by half until we finally toss the little fucker overboard?

Karzac
04-10-2011, 08:48 PM
Eddie, I don't know what you're getting at, but I will re-iterate: I bid $80 on the Counterfeiter. Truth detect that statement all you like.

Also: I'm not the Infiltrator
I'm in it to win it.
Ice Cream is delicious

Truth detect those staements all you like as well.

Destil
04-10-2011, 08:52 PM
What if we abused the truth detector, i.e. had it evaluate a statement like "the infiltrator is in the top half of the player list"? And then kept narrowing that down by half until we finally toss the little fucker overboard?

That's... exceptionally good. Wow. Can't do more than a binary search, and we'd have to hand the truth detector off each day, but.

With 21 players. First scan gets it down to 11 at most (10 best case). Even if no one ins that group is killed, we then go to 6, 3, 2 then 1. We'd know on day five. Sooner with some luck.

Eddie
04-10-2011, 08:54 PM
That is brilliant. Best of all, that player can then pass the truth detector off to someone in the group who is known not to contain the infiltrator!

I fully endorse this idea. How about we "scan" the top half of players?

- Eddie

Destil
04-10-2011, 08:59 PM
Also, we can speed that up if we only lynch players in the set that does have the infiltrator. That speeds things up a little. So it's 100% clear I propose someone truth detect (so there's no confusion about top half):

The Infiltrator is one of the following players:
botticus
Byron
Destil
dwolfe
dtsund
Eddie
JohnB
kaisel
Karzac
Knight
Loki

And, therefore, the following players are all agents:
McClain
Merus
Nich
poetfox
Repeater
shivam
spineshark
Tanto
Tock
Umby
VorpalEdge

McClain
04-10-2011, 09:21 PM
What if we abused the truth detector, i.e. had it evaluate a statement like "the infiltrator is in the top half of the player list"? And then kept narrowing that down by half until we finally toss the little fucker overboard?

Holy crap, I love this plan. I mean, there's still going to have to be a degree of luck, but I think this is doable. This plan is, dare I say it, so very penis.

I'm curious to find out what side of the tracks I'm on. If nothing else, this'll put a new wrinkle into the game.

dtsund
04-10-2011, 09:43 PM
What if we abused the truth detector, i.e. had it evaluate a statement like "the infiltrator is in the top half of the player list"? And then kept narrowing that down by half until we finally toss the little fucker overboard?

Beautiful. I heartily endorse this.

Tock
04-10-2011, 09:54 PM
Guess I'm last to return to the party! I was seeing the medical staff on the Leto Deck about a couple of missing teeth, when some brigand in a jetpack came in and was dreadfully forward with me. The nerve!

Anyway, it looks like I've missed the first round of theorycrafting--alas!--but as far as I can tell, the current Truth Detector plan is pretty damn solid, and I'm all for it.

And since we're scanning the "top half" statement, I suppose the following statement is useless:
I am not the Infiltrator.

Still, it's out there.

poetfox
04-10-2011, 10:07 PM
I'm not the Infiltrator. However, I do fully endorse this Truth Detector plan. See? We get off the silly plan, we come up with something workable. Fantastic. That's called teamwork.

Only problem is, of course... who has the Truth Detector? And as insane as it may seem, it is possible nobody bid on it, and thus nobody has it.

Destil
04-10-2011, 10:10 PM
I'm not the Infiltrator. However, I do fully endorse this Truth Detector plan. See? We get off the silly plan, we come up with something workable. Fantastic. That's called teamwork.

Only problem is, of course... who has the Truth Detector? And as insane as it may seem, it is possible nobody bid on it, and thus nobody has it.

I bid 1$ for it and lost.

Agent Prime
04-10-2011, 10:19 PM
The waves calmed down, but in exchange, the skies decided to open wide, letting loose an unending stream of rain and hail. Loki and Merus sat in the lounge as the spotlight shone upon a curvaceous burlesque dancer hanging upside down from a bannister.

"I dare say, this show is much better than the one going on back there," Merus said, adjusting his bowler. "Excuse me, bartender? Sir?"

The girls beside the main attraction covered her with large feather fans, and after a few moments, her spangled bra flew across the room and landed on Merus' flagging arm.

Loki smirked. "I don't believe anyone's paying much attention at the moment." He leaned back very casually, speaking to one of the young women who seemed to be following him around. There were a lot of them. "Darling, would you mind getting us another martini and...?"

Merus sighed. "Whiskey, neat. Thank you," he nodded as the girl went off into the din. "However do you do that?" he asked Loki, but before he could get his answer, he felt a clicking coming from his pocket. Both men pulled out their R&D Auctioneering Facilitators and held them up to their ears. Agent Prime's now-familiar voice crackled through:

Greetings. We hope this finds you well.

It has come to our attention that there has been some discussion about eliminating someone in your party. Currently, JohnB, Nich, and Tock have all received one vote. If you would like more detailed information, please look at the display on your Facilitator now.

Current Vote Status

JohnB
dtsund (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022538&postcount=25)

Loki
JohnB (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022762&postcount=77)

Nich
Destil (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022689&postcount=50)

Tock
JohnB (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022840&postcount=79)

kaisel
04-10-2011, 10:34 PM
That's... exceptionally good. Wow. Can't do more than a binary search, and we'd have to hand the truth detector off each day, but.

With 21 players. First scan gets it down to 11 at most (10 best case). Even if no one ins that group is killed, we then go to 6, 3, 2 then 1. We'd know on day five. Sooner with some luck.

Oh wow, that is amazing, mafia and computer science stuff, how can this game get any better? The only flaw in the truth detector plan is if the Infiltrator picked up the Truth Detector (and if the GM allows it to work). Though, since this is in the best interest of the Agents, we'll know if the Infiltrator does have it.

Loki
04-10-2011, 11:37 PM
Well now, that was refreshing. *Winks at Tock*

I've been putting my mind to the Truth Detector plan. It reminds me of a mission from a few years back called Moonraker where I had three days to locate a traitor before the moon crashed into Paris.

The obvious problem is if the Infiltrator has the Truth Detector. I propose the owner of it reveal. If no one reveals it's safe to assume the Infiltrator has it. When someone does reveal we should give them a hard deadline to use it by. If they don't we should assume they're the Infiltrator and chuck them overboard.

Any objections or obvious problems with this?

Also, we should come up with the simplest declarative statement to use the TD on. I don't want to get caught in a "you didn't word your wish in exactly the right way and now your family is dead" situation.

VorpalEdge
04-10-2011, 11:39 PM
The other sticking point is, what happens if it gets given to someone who gets nightkilled? If we pass the detector off to someone in the pool of confirmed applicants, then the infiltrator would likely nightkill someone from that pool, which would just have to be risked. However, the spontaneous stabbottings against targets would also need to be halted for players in that pool until the infiltrator is snuffed out.

Kylie
04-10-2011, 11:39 PM
Because revealing is a quick way to die tonight. If whoever has it reveals, and they end up under the sea, the Detector is lost to us forever.

Loki
04-10-2011, 11:40 PM
Because revealing is a quick way to die tonight. If whoever has it reveals, and they end up under the sea, the Detector is lost to us forever.

Well, they'll have to reveal to use it anyway.

And they'll pass it on before a night kill, right?

Loki
04-10-2011, 11:41 PM
According to the Order of Operations the owner gets to pass it off before they're murdered.

Player PMs -> Item Usage -> Item/Money Trades -> Murders -> Snitches -> Auctions

Loki
04-10-2011, 11:44 PM
The other sticking point is, what happens if it gets given to someone who gets nightkilled? If we pass the detector off to someone in the pool of confirmed applicants, then the infiltrator would likely nightkill someone from that pool, which would just have to be risked. However, the spontaneous stabbottings against targets would also need to be halted for players in that pool until the infiltrator is snuffed out.

This is a risk, but at the very least we'll have elimated half the pool of players it could be.

I'm okay with this risk. I mean, you only live twice (if you have a fairy).

McClain
04-10-2011, 11:47 PM
If nothing else, just today we could cut our suspects in half. I think that alone is worth doing, and if we are lucky enough to keep passing to people who manage to stay alive, even better.

Destil
04-10-2011, 11:48 PM
Also, we should come up with the simplest declarative statement to use the TD on. I don't want to get caught in a "you didn't word your wish in exactly the right way and now your family is dead" situation.
Hence my exact lists upthread. If anyone can think of something better feel free.

Because revealing is a quick way to die tonight. If whoever has it reveals, and they end up under the sea, the Detector is lost to us forever.

Except it's in the infiltrator's best interest to kill one of the other players who've been cleared by the first list, as the person who bought it should be handing it off to one of them (if they clear themselves they could keep it but public knowledge should only be that it's going to a 'random' person on the clear list). So it would actually be fairly 'safe'.

If they don't use it, why the hell did the buy it? To keep it out of someone else's hands? People, if you buy public daytime use items you're going to have to reveal to use them. Them's the breaks.

Loki
04-10-2011, 11:50 PM
Hence my exact lists upthread. If anyone can think of something better feel free.

They still feel a little complicated. Possibly. I mean, they should work. I'd just hate for the TD to spout out "DOES NOT COMPUTE" and we've wasted the detect for the day.

Loki
04-10-2011, 11:55 PM
Is so. Infiltrator has no reason to murder owner of Detector. Infiltrator knows it gets passed on, but not to who, because Infiltrator not know which half of list is checked. Owner of device sends PM to one--or more--he knows is not Infiltrator, and we get information. Then we do again tomorrow. Am seeing no hole in this plan.

The problem with you frigid Russian types is you never see the hole, even when it would be good for you.

Sips martini

shivam
04-10-2011, 11:55 PM
i put up 50 for the kill a dude gun and 40 for the counterfeiter, and won neither.

Eddie
04-11-2011, 12:01 AM
Is so. Infiltrator has no reason to murder owner of Detector. Infiltrator knows it gets passed on, but not to who, because Infiltrator not know which half of list is checked. Owner of device sends PM to one--or more--he knows is not Infiltrator, and we get information. Then we do again tomorrow. Am seeing no hole in this plan.

Sir, I believe you misunderstood how the item works! The Truth Detector does not work at night; the owner must declare its use during the day, which necessitates revealing that they have it. The infiltrator, knowing which statement got checked, would know for sure if the result was a truth or a falsehood.

Still, I don't think the person who does have the truth detector should worry about getting killed by the infiltrator tonight; as they can pass it on, it's in the infiltrator's best interest to target whoever the detector was passed to.

- Eddie

Eddie
04-11-2011, 12:07 AM
Because I don't think I was clear: the infiltrator (as will everyone) will find out the probable group of players that the detector gets passed to. But then he still has to gamble that the player passes it in the first place, or tries to be really sneaky and passes it to a player who might be the infiltrator.

Um, basically? The infiltrator's chance of hitting the guy with the detector is small. There is some concern with the two nightkill items but surely some diplomacy or gentlemen's agreements can work such things out.

- Eddie

Loki
04-11-2011, 12:16 AM
I would think that's easy to hold everyone account to. I mean, why would we ever throw someone who was cleared over? It would take some masterful town (passenger?) manipulation to pull that off.

Err... so yes, I agree.

Destil
04-11-2011, 12:26 AM
But, I say, this easy. We are making sure never to throw overboard man who is cleared. Here is "worst case scenario" then:

Day 1: 11 names cleared. One dead, 10 suspicious.
Day 2: 5 names cleared. One dead, 4 suspicious.
Day 3: 2 names cleared. One dead, remaining man is Infiltrator. Still are having one day to throw nogoodnik off boat.

Can we agree to do this?

I was thinking about that. The thing is, we don't get the status of people we throw over. So if we do not check on dead players, we may end up a little weird. Let's say we truth detect my earlier list, it comes back false (top half contains the infiltrator). We throw me off.

Then tomorrow someone truth detects "The infiltrator is one of botticus Byron dwolfe dtsund Eddie"

The get a 'false' back, so we line the other five up against the wall. Which still does not include the infiltrator.

In other words: I believe that works, but we may never know if the infiltrator is dead. Naturally other items could solve that issue. It's good for making sure that no agents lose due to the infiltrator, but it will make individual wins/losses a bit more random.

I'm fine with this for now, and I even suggested that we only throw off uncleared players. However, there's a difference between result sets that find the infiltrator and ones that kill the infiltrator, and we should be aware of that.

Tock
04-11-2011, 12:29 AM
The other upside to this plan is that as we narrow down the list of potential Infiltrators (and thus the pool of non-Infiltrators becomes larger), it becomes less likely that the Infiltrator can murder the non-Infiltrator who receives the Truth Detector that night. There's always the chance that person gets murdered by another Agent, I suppose, but that chance will always be there and can't be planned around, as far as I can see at the moment.

I'm no Russkie, but I don't see a hole either. And if there is, hopefully we can correct course before it's--too late! Agents as a collective should (hopefully) be able to find problematic loopholes and fix them before a single Infiltrator can.

Kylie
04-11-2011, 12:32 AM
Ah, apparently I misunderstood how the Detector works, as well. In that case, I wholeheartedly suggest whoever has it reveal, scan, and prepare to pass it along. For some reason, I thought it was a night-use item, and that declaring in-thread now would end up with the declaree swimming "in fishes", as komrade Nikolai would say.

Loki
04-11-2011, 12:34 AM
I was thinking about that. The thing is, we don't get the status of people we throw over. So if we do not check on dead players, we may end up a little weird. Let's say we truth detect my earlier list, it comes back false (top half contains the infiltrator). We throw me off.

Huh, what? I'm not following at all. Can you clarify?

Destil
04-11-2011, 12:53 AM
Infiltrator's identity is beside the point.

Not even an issue until we go to word tomorrow's request, so it's pretty irrelevant for now anyway (unless we want to decide on one person to throw over today and remove them from the list, thereby removing the possibility of having 11 suspect players).

Loki
04-11-2011, 12:54 AM
I agree, it we reach port and Agent Zero informs us that the Infiltrator is dead, then cheers all around.

However, there is a way to tell. We know how many weapons are out there. We can guess at how many night kills there are. If we stop seeing the Infiltrator’s night kills happen, he's probably dead.

Of course, this means the Infiltrator can stop performing night kills, effectively faking his own death. Which means we should probably keep with the plan until the end of the game, just to be safe and not give him an out.

Destil
04-11-2011, 01:10 AM
I'm pretty sure we'll get our hands on an Infiltration Sensor before we reach land. We should know when either the sensor gives us the all clear, or when we find someone who's had it but not used it because we toss them overboard.

Loki
04-11-2011, 01:18 AM
Ach, always in circles you capitalists are going. "We can identify Infiltrator, unless he acts certain way, so we must agree to do what we had agreed already on doing." Is wasted effort, of no benefit to collective.

I see your point, but I think it's important to discuss the Infiltrator's options out in the open. The more we indentify his stragies, the less he'll be able to use them effectivly.

Merus
04-11-2011, 01:54 AM
Current V0te Status

J0hnB
dtsund (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022538&postcount=25)

L0ki
JohnB (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022762&postcount=77)

Nich
Destil (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022689&postcount=50)

T0ck
JohnB (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022840&postcount=79)

My Facilitator's busted.

Incidentally, chaps, I bid $27 on the truth detector and came up empty.

botticus
04-11-2011, 05:51 AM
Well, I wholeheartedly endorse Vorpal's Truth Detector exploitation. With any luck the Infiltrator will be in the other half of the list. Sorry guys!

[Note: I am not the Infiltrator.]

At the moment I'm torn between dumping Bond, Loki Bond, Jr. or that goddamn Ruskie. And hey, they just happen to be in different halves of the list! That might make my decision easier.

Karzac
04-11-2011, 08:08 AM
I'm in for the Truth Detector plan, although I don't have the Truth Detector.

McClain
04-11-2011, 08:16 AM
Another thing to remember is that as we add to the cleared list, our pool of people to hand the thing off too could grow, not shrink, even with night kills.

So if we clear 10 people today, and then tomorrow clear half of the remaining 11, then we should have a pool of 15-16 people (minus deaths) to pass the thing too.

The only thing that worries me now is that no one has stepped forward, which makes me think the owner of the truth detector is either the infiltrator or not willing to cooperate for some reason.

And while I know we are all itchy to get to our primary targets, I really do think we should hold of at least for tonight if we get a "clean" list. After that, I would suggest that anyone making a move at night PM the holder of the detector to tell him who is not going to be safe to pass to.

Tanto
04-11-2011, 08:24 AM
So it's time for "I'm not Spartacus", huh?

I don't have the Truth Detector either. I didn't bid more than $35 on anything and won nothing, just for the record. I may have to reconsider my bidding strategy, assuming I make it that far.

Knight
04-11-2011, 08:46 AM
I'm also for the Truth Detector plan, and I don't have it either.

Loki
04-11-2011, 08:57 AM
It occurs to me that the owner might lie about having it because they want to manipulate the vote to off their target. But I'd like to think that nobody here would be such a low-class thug to try and pull that off, JohnB.

In any case, I don't have it and I didn't bid for it .

kaisel
04-11-2011, 09:02 AM
Another thing to remember is that as we add to the cleared list, our pool of people to hand the thing off too could grow, not shrink, even with night kills.

So if we clear 10 people today, and then tomorrow clear half of the remaining 11, then we should have a pool of 15-16 people (minus deaths) to pass the thing too.

The only thing that worries me now is that no one has stepped forward, which makes me think the owner of the truth detector is either the infiltrator or not willing to cooperate for some reason.

And while I know we are all itchy to get to our primary targets, I really do think we should hold of at least for tonight if we get a "clean" list. After that, I would suggest that anyone making a move at night PM the holder of the detector to tell him who is not going to be safe to pass to.

Or they might have already used it, while pretending that they didn't have it, before the better use of the plan came up, in which case, we should start on a plan B perhaps.

And no, I don't have it, I didn't bid for it, and I'm not the infiltrator, even though this is a waste of time to declare it, especially since we're working off of the list that Destil put together.

Kylie
04-11-2011, 09:02 AM
I bid 33$ for the Truth Detector. I didn't get it.

But I AM Spartacus.

spineshark
04-11-2011, 09:09 AM
I don't have it either, but I'm intrigued by the plan. I hope it works, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some catch. It does seem a little too easy!

Also, dwolfe claimed that the counterfeiter is really only worth $50 since that's the most amount of money you can get from it. I'm not sure this is true though since I expect the overall price of items to be MUCH lower than what we're seeing so far as people run out of money. Really desirable stuff like, I dunno, the jetpack and some of the killer items, might be exceptions, but I don't think we're gonna see a post on Day 4 like "I bid $40 on the sunglasses and didn't win."

Agent Prime
04-11-2011, 09:11 AM
Destil, dwolfe, and dtsund sat at an empty blackjack table. "Must be in the middle of a shift change," dtsund muttered, fingering the stack of chips in front of him.

"Not zat it matters," dwolfe said, his head in his hands. His stack was decidedly smaller than his companions'; his distress over this could not be masked. "If I cannot win a simple game of cards, how is it zat I will be able to win zis contract wiz Ze Organization?"

"Well, ya see," the dealer replied, shuffling the deck, "ya luck's gotta turn around at some point. Can't win 'em all, and ya certainly can't lose 'em all... well, unless ya go off an' die or somethin'."

dwolfe looked up at the dealer and saw botticus smiling back at him. He groaned and left the table before the cards were dealt out.

"Aw, where ya goin'?" botticus called out, but with no response, he shrugged and started dealing. "So, Destil, ya really feelin' confident on this cockamamie plan o' yours? I mean, I know I'm speakin' fer all o' us at dis here table, but you're puttin' our necks out onna line here with dis stunt."

Destil cleared his throat and pulled the pocketwatch from his vest pocket. "You see, good sir, it all comes down to a bit of logic --"

The waiter cleared his throat. "Sirs, your appetizers are ready." Destil shot a confused look at dtsund as the waiter lifted up the brass lid and revealed a sheet of paper. dtsund grabbed it and read it aloud:

Current Vote Status

JohnB
dtsund (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022538&postcount=25)

Loki
JohnB (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022762&postcount=77)

Nich
Destil (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022689&postcount=50)

Tock
JohnB (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022840&postcount=79)
Nich (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023052&postcount=130)

Day One will end tomorrow at 12:15pm EST/9:15am PST. You have approximately twenty-four hours to lodge your votes.

Karzac
04-11-2011, 09:12 AM
Or they might have already used it, while pretending that they didn't have it, before the better use of the plan came up, in which case, we should start on a plan B perhaps.

Not possible. They have to declare its use in the thread.

botticus
04-11-2011, 09:27 AM
and I'm not the infiltrator, even though this is a waste of time to declare it, especially since we're working off of the list that Destil put together.
Regardless of whether the plan gets off the ground, making Truth Detectable statements isn't really a waste of time.

Eddie
04-11-2011, 09:32 AM
Or they might have already used it, while pretending that they didn't have it, before the better use of the plan came up, in which case, we should start on a plan B perhaps.

The use of the item MUST be declared in thread. So far, I can't see a statement that would suggest someone has used it.

Should we start a list of people who say they support the idea and/or don't have the truth detector?


botticus = Support (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023119&postcount=134)
Byron = Support (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023036&postcount=125)
Destil = Support (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022932&postcount=97)
dwolfe = did not win it at any rate (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022911&postcount=94)
dtsund = Support (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022952&postcount=101)
Eddie = Support
kaisel = Support? (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022978&postcount=106)
Karzac = Support (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023177&postcount=135)
Knight = Support (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023206&postcount=138)
Loki = Support (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023003&postcount=107)
McClain = Support (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022943&postcount=100)
Merus = Support? (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023075&postcount=133)
Nich = Support (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023018&postcount=116)
poetfox = Support (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022960&postcount=103)
shivam = Did not bid on it (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023020&postcount=118)
Spinespark = support (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023223&postcount=142)
Tanto = Support? (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023188&postcount=137)
Tock = Support (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022956&postcount=102)
VorpalEdge = Support (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022928&postcount=95)

Assuming we're all telling the truth (roughly) AND that the infiltrator did not win the truth detector, that leaves the following players who have not yet chipped in:

JohnB, Repeater, Umby

None of them have replied since the idea was floated till when I last hit the "preview" button.

Perhaps some incentive is in order? The infiltrator is very unlikely to be in that group of players (I would assume they would declare support or say they don't own the machine, particularly with the momentum this has gained), but there is also the possibility that someone above has won the item, but is too scared/formulating a different plan to use it.

So sir or madam! If you had the Truth Detector delivered to you when you arrived, I would suggest getting on board this plan! (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022938&postcount=99) I cannot imagine the anger your comrades here will feel if it is later discovered you had it all along but chose selfishly to conceal it. I imagine such action would land one in the drink!

- Eddie

kaisel
04-11-2011, 09:41 AM
Not possible. They have to declare its use in the thread.

This device may scan one statement and evaluate its truth value. Simply quote the statement you would like to scan (and link the post in which that statement was made), and the Truth Detector will report it as either TRUE or FALSE. The Truth Detector is not very sophisticated, so it can only evaluate objective statements. (It could evaluate the statement "I sent a Snitch after Brickroad last night," but not "I sent a Snitch after Brickroad last night because I think he lied to me.")

It says nothing about actively declaring its use in this thread, just that the statement has to be quoted, and the original post linked.

kaisel
04-11-2011, 09:44 AM
Double post because I'm an idiot, and missed the "Use:" line. I guess it does need to be explicitly declared in thread, ignore me.

JohnB
04-11-2011, 10:01 AM
It occurs to me that the owner might lie about having it because they want to manipulate the vote to off their target. But I'd like to think that nobody here would be such a low-class thug to try and pull that off, JohnB.

In any case, I don't have it and I didn't bid for it .

I did win an item yesterday, but it wasn't the Truth Detector.

Repeater
04-11-2011, 10:05 AM
I don't have the truth detector.

JohnB
04-11-2011, 10:05 AM
And yes, I fully support and pledge to comply with the new Truth Detector plan, not dtsund's shitty one.

dtsund
04-11-2011, 10:15 AM
I do not have the Truth Detector either.

Eddie
04-11-2011, 10:20 AM
So, assuming is telling the truth (roughly), that means one of three things:

1. Umby won the truth detector
2. The Infiltrator won the truth detector
3. An agent won the truth detector, and will be thrown overboard as soon as we figure out who it is, unless they understand their position and recant their lies.

- Eddie

Eddie
04-11-2011, 10:21 AM
(1 and 2 may not be mutually exclusive)

- Eddie

Tanto
04-11-2011, 10:26 AM
Just in the name of hurrying things along while we wait for Umby to show up, what's our plan if #2 is the case? I haven't seen anything that jumps out at me as implicating the Infiltrator (and I doubt I will, at least on the first Day), and I'm uncomfortable lynching at random. Do we go back to trying to organize a mass reveal, or revisit the Snitch strategy?

I do agree that this is our best chance to get some pure, uncontaminated information. Things grow a lot less certain after the first Night, when people have had a chance to scheme behind the scenes and a few deaths thin our ranks.

botticus
04-11-2011, 10:32 AM
#2 or #3 have the same result at this point.

How did everyone bid on the Truth Detector, anyway? I saw a few bids mentioned in the 20s and 30s, anything higher?

Karzac
04-11-2011, 10:34 AM
I bid $2 on it, if that helps anything.

Knight
04-11-2011, 10:38 AM
Alright, so that just leaves one person who hasn't spoken up about owning the Truth Detector yet. While we wait for Umby, I think we should come up with an alternate plan for revealing the Infiltrator in case they have the Truth Detector, or if an Applicant is holding out on us.

I'm also gonna back Eddie up on this:
So sir or madam! If you had the Truth Detector delivered to you when you arrived, I would suggest getting on board this plan! (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022938&postcount=99) I cannot imagine the anger your comrades here will feel if it is later discovered you had it all along but chose selfishly to conceal it. I imagine such action would land one in the drink!
If you have the Truth Detector and are holding out for your own selfish reasons, and later choose to use it. I'll vote to throw you overboard, and I imagine others will as well.

If you're concealing it out of cowardice, then I think maybe you just don't understand the plan. You're to use it during the day, and then trade it to someone on the confirmed applicant side of the list at night. Trades will go through before killings, so you have little to fear from the Infiltrator, as it's in their best interests to kill someone on the confirmed applicant side of the list, so they have a 1 in 10 chance of removing the Truth Detector from play.

dtsund
04-11-2011, 10:39 AM
I didn't bid on it.

McClain
04-11-2011, 10:41 AM
For what it's worth, I did not outbid any of the claims out there for the truth detector.

I think we need to start thinking of a plan B. Right now I don't see any good lynch targets, and with the rules of this game as they are I don't feel compelled to vote, so I won't unless something jumps out at me. I trust no one will hold that against me.

spineshark
04-11-2011, 10:44 AM
I will. There might not be a "town," but the same principle applies to daytime killings. Lynches are by far the most likely way we're going to kill the Infiltrator, and it's dumb to give up that opportunity. The killing items will, presumably, be used by Applicants to kill their targets, and he's obviously not going to just shoot himself.

spineshark
04-11-2011, 10:46 AM
I bid $80 of my money over two items, neither of which were the Detector. I wanted to make sure I would have the other $20 left for a possible snitch plan I had before the game started. (It is much more selfish than dtsund's.) I don't know if I'll go through with that, though.

McClain
04-11-2011, 11:01 AM
I will. There might not be a "town," but the same principle applies to daytime killings. Lynches are by far the most likely way we're going to kill the Infiltrator, and it's dumb to give up that opportunity. The killing items will, presumably, be used by Applicants to kill their targets, and he's obviously not going to just shoot himself.

Fair point. I don't know why I keep feeling compelled to float the "no lynch" idea every few games.

So here's a good general idea: please don't vote for your target. Kill him some other way. He's the only person you know isn't the infiltrator.

Kylie
04-11-2011, 11:23 AM
Not-voting is interesting this game - there's no town, so we won't hate you for it. But even if we don't all react with pure viscera, as we have in previous games, the only one who has NOTHING to gain by voting is the Infiltrator, who doesn't need to vote to kill people.

That said, he or she can still make ties to cause chaos at the moment. I'm not a fan of chaos. I like my shipbound deathsport nice and orderly and civil.

I accuse Tock.

Tock is not my target. But I might be his, and this way the infiltrator can't make us scramble into camps to block his vote.

I reserve the right to change it if/when the dapper with the Truth Detector steps forward to set us straight about where to start looking for Infiltrators.

Umby
04-11-2011, 01:43 PM
I bid $30 on the Counterfeiting Machine, $40 on another item, and nothing on the truth detector. I'm so sorry, ladies and gentleman, but your truth detector is in another castle, so to speak. However, if the Infiltrator does not have the truth detector, I am in support of the plan.

And in this case, I think we should not kill someone today, unless we have a huge hunch. I don't see Tock as a big candidate for infiltrator, so unless anyone has any idea or is voting for my target, I'm not voting yet.

spineshark
04-11-2011, 02:08 PM
Okay, so supposing that the Infiltrator does have the detector and we therefore wouldn't get to use it at all, how else do we start narrowing out suspects?

I do kind of like the idea of starting with people who think it's a good idea to not use one of the biggest tools available in the game, though. Just because as far as I'm concerned, everyone is either a direct enemy or at best expendable, doesn't mean this isn't important. Please don't let this vote turn into some Tragedy of the Commons bullshit.

I vote for Umby.

For now.

Umby
04-11-2011, 02:16 PM
Just because as far as I'm concerned, everyone is either a direct enemy or at best expendable, doesn't mean this isn't important. Please don't let this vote turn into some Tragedy of the Commons bullshit.

I vote for Umby.

For now.

Look, I didn't say that I won't vote, I just don't see anyone that stands out to me right now. And perhaps a little someone wants to off his target, eh?

botticus
04-11-2011, 02:25 PM
Well, my only idea is to see who has not (until this post prompts them to) claimed not to be the Infiltrator. And depending on that list, I'll see what other sort of Truth Detectable statements they've made.

If the Infiltrator has the Truth Detector, then they obviously can make whatever statements they like. If they do not, of which there is at least a good probability (would they blow a good chunk of money, or even the bulk of their financial advantage over us, on that item on Day 1?), then they're going to shy away from making statements they can be called on unless there's no other choice (i.e. everyone else said they weren't the Infiltrator).

It's not much, but it's where I'll start.

Merus
04-11-2011, 02:32 PM
Well, my only idea is to see who has not (until this post prompts them to) claimed not to be the Infiltrator. And depending on that list, I'll see what other sort of Truth Detectable statements they've made.

Well, I mean I haven't, but that's because there's already a statement out there that's a better choice for detectoring today. So it's sort of pointless, in the same way that claiming townie in previous games is pointless.

Karzac
04-11-2011, 02:34 PM
Well, I mean I haven't, but that's because there's already a statement out there that's a better choice for detectoring today. So it's sort of pointless, in the same way that claiming townie in previous games is pointless.

But, you know, you could still do it, just to humour us.

shivam
04-11-2011, 02:35 PM
why would anyone claim to be the infiltrator?

also, running down the list, has repeater posted yet?

shivam
04-11-2011, 02:36 PM
lol, learn to read, stupid. repeater's the top post on this page.

i am not the infiltrator.

Knight
04-11-2011, 02:36 PM
I never claimed it for the same reasons as Merus. But why not, I might as well do it now. I am not the Infiltrator.

shivam
04-11-2011, 02:43 PM
ok, so i've been thinking about voting strategies in this game, and the only reasons i can think of to vote for someone else's dude are as follows- a> i'll scratch your back if you scratch mine, or b> try to make people believe you have a different target, which doesnt really make sense.

this is a lot like that diplomacy board game, where you need your pals to get on your train in order to win, but only until you can safely turn on them yourself.

Repeater
04-11-2011, 02:50 PM
Yeah, I didn't claim for the same reason as Merus and Knight but if it will make you feel better: I am not the infiltrator.

Merus
04-11-2011, 02:50 PM
But, you know, you could still do it, just to humour us.
Sure, whatever. I am not the Infiltrator.

Anyway, the actual truth detector plan, where we eliminate half the group for our attentions in one fell swoop, is a cracker, and I'm all for it. The only problem is that the person with the Truth Detector isn't speaking up, no doubt because it's bound to result in their death at the hands of the Infiltrator.

So here's my question: who won the Deadbolt? If the owner of the Deadbolt is given the Truth Detector, and we were planning on passing it around anyway, the Infiltrator won't be able to get to them in time. We may have to bribe whoever has the Deadbolt with throwing their target overboard, but we're likely to waste many of those days anyway so we might as well assure someone a victory.

Destil
04-11-2011, 02:50 PM
On that enlightened note, since there's no real leads and no one seems to agree that Nich is dangerous:

Selling one vote, $10 payable tonight. I will vote for the player of your choice today, myself excluded. Offer void if the truth detector is used before the end of the day.

VorpalEdge
04-11-2011, 02:54 PM
For what it's worth, I haven't explicitly said this yet, but no, I didn't win the truth detector. Didn't even bid on it.

And I've also gotta say, if I were the infiltrator and I bought the detector last night, I would be laughing so hard right now. Hmmm. What to do...

Karzac
04-11-2011, 02:54 PM
On that enlightened note, since there's no real leads and no one seems to agree that Nich is dangerous:

Selling one vote, $10 payable tonight. I will vote for the player of your choice today, myself excluded. Offer void if the truth detector is used before the end of the day.

That seems like the kind of thing that would be easier to arrange via PM. I'd imagine that people wouldn't want everybody to know who they want dead.

Kylie
04-11-2011, 02:54 PM
If you can possibly narrow down the list by half, Truth Detective, don't waste your scan on individuals. Unless we (as individuals) say something monumentally, stupendously dumb.

I am not the Infiltrator.

Karzac
04-11-2011, 02:56 PM
Also remember that we've got about 6 hours left in the day, so you should act soon.

Destil
04-11-2011, 02:56 PM
That seems like the kind of thing that would be easier to arrange via PM. I'd imagine that people wouldn't want everybody to know who they want dead.

Won't really matter after your target is dead. Something for people to think about if today's vote is close ;)

Kylie
04-11-2011, 02:57 PM
If the Deadbolt Junkie reveals, and wants to receive the Detector tonight, he or she has to leave their door open. This is sort of dangerous.

VorpalEdge
04-11-2011, 02:58 PM
I'm not the infiltrator.

Tock
04-11-2011, 03:05 PM
I didn't bid at all on the Truth Detector. I was kind of hoping that guy would show up and exonerate my half of the list. Where are you, Truth Mans?

Karzac
04-11-2011, 03:08 PM
Is jetlagged, maybe? Have 18 hours, not 6.


You're right. I misread Agent Prime's post as "12:15am". My bad. Carry on.

Knight
04-11-2011, 03:08 PM
The only problem is that the person with the Truth Detector isn't speaking up, no doubt because it's bound to result in their death at the hands of the Infiltrator.
Unless they're (stupidly) planning to hold onto it after using it, I'd say that it practically guarantees the Infiltrator won't kill them. Unless the Infiltrator is retardedly petty, they're better off choosing to kill someone from the pool of confirmed Applicants. That way, they have a 1 in 10 chance of killing the recipient of the Truth Detector.

So here's my question: who won the Deadbolt? If the owner of the Deadbolt is given the Truth Detector, and we were planning on passing it around anyway, the Infiltrator won't be able to get to them in time. We may have to bribe whoever has the Deadbolt with throwing their target overboard, but we're likely to waste many of those days anyway so we might as well assure someone a victory.
That is a good idea, but the user of the Deadbolt can't receive items if they use it. So if they publicly claim to have it, they can't receive it anyway without painting a target on themselves the Infiltrator.

On that enlightened note, since there's no real leads and no one seems to agree that Nich is dangerous:

Selling one vote, $10 payable tonight. I will vote for the player of your choice today, myself excluded. Offer void if the truth detector is used before the end of the day.
I'm also available for selling my vote, under the same conditions. Whether you want to do it in public today or through PMs in the night phase for the next day is up to you. First come first serve.

Eddie
04-11-2011, 03:14 PM
If the Deadbolt Junkie reveals, and wants to receive the Detector tonight, he or she has to leave their door open. This is sort of dangerous.

The deadbolt idea is an interesting one, but I'm with our fine comrade here. There doesn't seem to be any real advantage to involving the deadbolt winner; he or she would be just as vulnerable as anyone else to take it, and I can't imagine they'd be too keen to sell or give away the deadbolt.

On the topic of selling votes: real classy guys.

- Eddie

Knight
04-11-2011, 03:16 PM
Hmm. Am now wondering if applicant has Detector, but is not using because has interest in death of Tock. Should we be withdrawing the votes?
That is something to consider. In that case, that Applicant could just say they have the Truth Detector, and is willing to use it and pass it on in exchange for votes against Tock. Certainly sounds like win/win for everyone but the Infiltrator and Tock.

Tanto
04-11-2011, 03:21 PM
I am not the Infiltrator.

The Deadbolt went for at least $36, because I bid $35 and didn't get it, if that helps at all.

kaisel
04-11-2011, 03:28 PM
RE: Selling votes. On the one hand I applaud the capitalistic ingenuity here that helped us defeat the Reds, like our good friend Nich here. On the other hand, by selling your vote, you're basically insuring that the Infiltrator has a higher chance of surviving, since a.) the person buying your vote wants you to kill their target, who is not the Infiltrator or b.) they have a strong hunch of who the Infiltrator is, which in that case they should share it with the rest of the class.

I'd strongly urge everyone to use their votes to try to hunt down the Infiltrator, rather than using it to kill your target, but I know just how well trying to get everyone cooperating in a game really is. So, I really hope someone gets lucky part way through guys.

JohnB
04-11-2011, 03:32 PM
I'm a bit curious, for what it's worth, about the subsequent voters for Tock. I voted for him first because he was the last Man to speak. Then, speak he did. I am probably not making a great leap in logic to at least think that one of his other voters is the Spy assigned as his killer. I didn't unvote Tock earlier since I still (stupidly) have a vote, and want a buffer between anybody else and me. For the same reason I'm keeping my vote there right now. Anyone else care to explain? Eh, Comrade Ruskie?

Individual property is lie anyway.

I, sir, am an Objectivist Spy and am woundly greatly by these words. Put another way, AMERICA, FUCK YEAH (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhnUgAaea4M)!

JohnB
04-11-2011, 03:33 PM
On the topic of selling votes: real classy guys.

- Eddie

WHAT? It's fucking awesome.

shivam
04-11-2011, 03:36 PM
yeah, i daresay that vote selling is pretty much par for this ruleset.

dwolfe
04-11-2011, 03:41 PM
The truth detector plan is good. I am in favor of it.

If one of us had actually won it, they would have announced it by now, I think. So I'm going to assume that either the Infiltrator has it, or the person that has it hasn't posted in almost a full day (like myself).

The Infiltrator could have bid 101$ on any one item and guaranteed they would win said item.

If the Infiltrator has it already, their best strategy would be to suggest this plan and totally derail our day one discussion and ensure they can't be found by this method.

thusly, unless someone reveals they own the truth detector:

I accuse VorpalEdge

botticus
04-11-2011, 03:43 PM
Well, I mean I haven't, but that's because there's already a statement out there that's a better choice for detectoring today. So it's sort of pointless, in the same way that claiming townie in previous games is pointless.

Considering we clearly can't trust at least one person here, I don't really think it's a good idea to lay our hopes for victory upon this plan working without a hitch until the end of the game. If it even gets off the ground.

McClain
04-11-2011, 03:46 PM
While it should go without saying since I have been on board for every plan to catch the bastard, I will pledge publicly that I am not the infiltrator like all the other cool kids.

I do not like the vote selling for the reasons outlined above, RE: catching the infiltrator. Your target is not my fucking problem.

I will be looking closely at the votes and voting late. I will NOT be voting for my target, and will try to figure out who is or isn't voting for their targets* to try to arrive at who is left. It will be a shot in the dark, but at least I know I can eliminate one person.

But, hey, if anyone else wants to publicly buy a vote for their target to give me someone to scratch off my list while putting a target on their head, feel free.


*through a combination of guessing and gut

dtsund
04-11-2011, 04:11 PM
thusly, unless someone reveals they own the truth detector:

I accuse VorpalEdge

You know what? This sounds pretty plausible to me.

I accuse VorpalEdge.

If nobody comes forward with it, I'm going ahead with Plan Double Investigate Next Person Below You (which is to say, I'll be sending snitches after Eddie). Upon further thought, I don't like the idea of messing with the list order to come up with something everyone likes; too easy to lie and manipulate that, which is really why I proposed using the alphabetical list in the first place. Who else is on board if the Truth Detector isn't forthcoming?

McClain
04-11-2011, 04:21 PM
So the theory is that Vorpal

1) is the infiltrator
2) bought the truth detector
3) gave us an awesome idea of how to use the truth detector to sniff out the infiltrator, but
4) obviously won't use the truth detector so we would
5) waste a day talking about it and he
6) laughs his ass off.

It sounds good, except that I don't know that such a clever plan would work in the long run, since it might attract unwanted attention right back on him ... like this! But if anyone was going to do something like that, it'd be Vorpal.

If nothing else jumps out at me, I could go with this crazy double logic. I've heard worse reasons for a day 1 lynch.

Destil
04-11-2011, 04:23 PM
I was actually considering on accusing Vorpal tomorrow under the same logic if no one used the detector today. But in retrospect I'm not sure how much it adds up: if he had such a brilliant idea why come out with it at all if anyone of us were? He could have kept it to himself and even if someone else does, he doesn't reveal his detector and we (most likely) lynch the person who thinks of it.

If the detector did surface today, though, it doesn't sound like I'd be alone in considering Vorpal pretty much cleared no matter which side of the coin he's on. Why would the infiltrator tell us how to beat him if he knew we could take advantage of it?

Knight
04-11-2011, 04:29 PM
RE: Vote selling: For today, the offer is void if the person with the Truth Detector comes forward. And for other people at a later date, they can just tell me to change my vote if more info comes forward. Whether they want to tell me publicly or set up a key word or phrase to change my vote, or to just straight up copy their vote when they change it is up to them.

McClain
04-11-2011, 04:30 PM
It does sound a little crazier when you say it out like like that, no?

It occurs to me that we will often (and certainly this round) have someone who can vouch for the vote leader if he happens to be an agent, but at great risk. The one thing I will suggest is that if you have a means of killing someone anyhow, and the person up for a lynch is your target, consider revealing so that we can not waste a day. I understand that this isn't necessarily the best play, but I'm sure their could be situations where it would be a safe move (ie: you can kill them anyhow at night fall). Just something to consider for our common goal.

Karzac
04-11-2011, 04:31 PM
I was actually considering on accusing Vorpal tomorrow under the same logic if no one used the detector today. But in retrospect I'm not sure how much it adds up: if he had such a brilliant idea why come out with it at all if anyone of us were? He could have kept it to himself and even if someone else does, he doesn't reveal his detector and we (most likely) lynch the person who thinks of it.

If the detector did surface today, though, it doesn't sound like I'd be alone in considering Vorpal pretty much cleared no matter which side of the coin he's on. Why would the infiltrator tell us how to beat him if he knew we could take advantage of it?

I think you're missing a word in the bolded sentence. If any of us were what?

shivam
04-11-2011, 04:33 PM
So the theory is that Vorpal

1) is the infiltrator
2) bought the truth detector
3) gave us an awesome idea of how to use the truth detector to sniff out the infiltrator, but
4) obviously won't use the truth detector so we would
5) waste a day talking about it and he
6) laughs his ass off.

It sounds good, except that I don't know that such a clever plan would work in the long run, since it might attract unwanted attention right back on him ... like this! But if anyone was going to do something like that, it'd be Vorpal.

If nothing else jumps out at me, I could go with this crazy double logic. I've heard worse reasons for a day 1 lynch.

on a day with nothing else to go on, this looks good to me.
I accuse Vorpal

Destil
04-11-2011, 04:34 PM
I think you're missing a word in the bolded sentence. If any of us were what?
What I meant was "Why come out with it at all if none of us were able to think of it."

Sorry, hurried posts during work and all that. These 42 hour days are taking some getting used to.

poetfox
04-11-2011, 04:36 PM
I considered the Vorpal thing too, but it doesn't seem likely. No, I think if I'm going to have to guess on who could be manipulating things, since no truth detector is happening, I'm going to have to, you know, throw this accusation out there.

I accuse dtsund.

He throws out a flawed plan with a nice out of "Well, hey, sure, I reduced everyone's resources for finding the Infiltrator significantly, but at least I tried to help, right?" I could even see a further plan of "Ah-ha! Now my Truth Detector will found out who didn't actually do the plan and we'll figure out who to lynch!" when in reality there are plenty of reasons for someone not to go along with it.

dwolfe
04-11-2011, 06:17 PM
The Infiltrator would, I think, have more of a reason to think through potential plans like VorpalEdge's and act to prevent them from happening. Everyone is gunning for them.

I really didn't do any analysis on how items could be leveraged beyond the counterfeiter device. You can duplicate having it by simply saving your money instead, so it _really_ isn't worth bidding more than it can print during the cruise. If you'd get your original bid back from the machine on a random day of the cruise, as well as the $10 per day, it'd be worth bidding on as you'd have a net profit. It's a broken, bad item imho.

He throws out a flawed plan with a nice out of "Well, hey, sure, I reduced everyone's resources for finding the Infiltrator significantly, but at least I tried to help, right?" I could even see a further plan of "Ah-ha! Now my Truth Detector will found out who didn't actually do the plan and we'll figure out who to lynch!" when in reality there are plenty of reasons for someone not to go along with it.

What are the reasons not to go along with it? Everyone but one person needs the Infiltrator dead as part of their winning condition. The Infiltrator can kill someone each night, right?; which might mean you die randomly and lose regardless, so again it's worthwhile to kill them vs any other random lynching.

poetfox
04-11-2011, 06:38 PM
What are the reasons not to go along with it? Everyone but one person needs the Infiltrator dead as part of their winning condition. The Infiltrator can kill someone each night, right?; which might mean you die randomly and lose regardless, so again it's worthwhile to kill them vs any other random lynching.

If you want to bet your money, your key to victory, on everyone else whom you can't trust spending that same amount of money, you be my guest. But saving that $20 dollars for items and lying about your results in order to get your target lynched is really easy to do. And what's the harm of doing it, eh, if, as dtsund says, you only need one person to find the Infiltrator! Might as well not be you. Someone else will pick up the slack, right? Surely. Everyone else is completely trustworthy and not having the exact same thoughts.

Any results are going to be so riddled with distrust, and for good reason, that it's going to cause us all to argue pointlessly about the results trying to pick out what's actually trustworthy. The result is not actually succeeding at anything. This kind of chaos is what the Infiltrator wants. This is already been said several times, and not just by me. If that doesn't make sense to you, well, good luck on trusting the people who come talking to you tonight as well. I'm sure they all have your very best interests at heart.

McClain
04-11-2011, 06:49 PM
If we did the snitch plan, and someone lied just to get their target lynched, they would go in the drink next, no doubt.

poetfox
04-11-2011, 06:52 PM
And surely there will only be one person lying, making this a viable means of keeping people in line. There's no way more than one person could lie. It's in the plan. Only one liar. Confirmed.

Loki
04-11-2011, 06:57 PM
If we did the snitch plan, and someone lied just to get their target lynched, they would go in the drink next, no doubt.

But how would you prove such a thing?

I'm not happy about voting based on conjuncture. I'd like some hard evidence that a person deserves to be dunked. But seeing as it's unlikely that the TD's going to show up at this point (seriously, what the heck!? Are we not gentlemen? If you own the TD and you're not the Infiltrator you've basically signed your own death warrant. Good job, I guess) it suppose it's not the most horrible thing for someone else to die. It's no skin off my back, and perhaps they're my assassin. But I'd much rather we come up with an effective Plan B.

Not, that I've anything in mind. I've been racking my brain and come up with zilch.

Tanto
04-11-2011, 06:58 PM
I'm not entirely sold on VorpalEdge being the Infiltrator, but the lack of a Truth Detector reveal after we've wasted a whole Day planning around it is pretty damning. I don't see any way the Infiltrator doesn't have it.

Moreover, I feel not using our daily kills is a good way to lose. Therefore...

I vote for VorpalEdge.

Eddie
04-11-2011, 07:04 PM
If we did the snitch plan, and someone lied just to get their target lynched, they would go in the drink next, no doubt.

The issue isn't people lying; of course people are going to lie. The issue is that the snitch plan has a lot of problems inherent to it in its current form:

1. The position of some of the names might have different impacts on players depending on whether they are above or below their target on the list. In one case, it means their target will undoubtedly scan them, and in the other it means they don't have to pay $20, as they already know the person they are "supposed" to scan is innocent

2. It's real easy to cheat. The odds of any player being the infiltrator is pretty low; what's to stop you from saving your $20 and saying your target was innocent? And worst of all, the more people try and cheat, the less effective the method becomes. It's classic Prisoner's Dilemma. And I would point out that we've already had a few people say they wouldn't waste their money...

I think you can compensate to some degree with the measures listed above (I offered a compromise a few pages back), but we're too deep into the day I think to reasonably offer a new alternative. Sadly, all this talk about using the Truth Detector really has been a waste of time so far.

That doesn't make catching the infiltrator impossible, it just means that catching him or her is going to happen via the various networks that spring up at night.

- Eddie

Loki
04-11-2011, 07:06 PM
I'm not entirely sold on VorpalEdge being the Infiltrator, but the lack of a Truth Detector reveal after we've wasted a whole Day planning around it is pretty damning.

Not really. It was a good idea. It's a shame that it didn't work out. But by no means is it "damning." And a day of discussion isn't wasted by any means.

What are the other reasons that people would have for voting for Vorpal:

He is their target
They are the Infiltrator insuring they don't get thrown off themselves
They feel lost and figure we better chuck somebody


The third item is fairly innocent, given the nature of this game, but the first two are worth investigation. One to give Vorpal an idea of who his assassin might by, and second clues to the Infiltrator.

Who's voted for Vorpal so far?
dwolf
Shivam
dtsund
poetfox

Is that it? I feel like I'm missing one.

Loki
04-11-2011, 07:08 PM
Tanto, that was it.

poetfox
04-11-2011, 07:08 PM
Yeah, let's not claim my vote for dtsund as a vote for Vorpal, please.

dtsund
04-11-2011, 07:13 PM
But how would you prove such a thing?

Well, if players' inventories are revealed on death, and we go with the hypothesis that the Infiltrator has the Truth Detector...

Destil
04-11-2011, 07:13 PM
What are the other reasons that people would have for voting for Vorpal:

You missed: He's not my target but he may be planning on killing me.

Loki
04-11-2011, 07:19 PM
Yeah, let's not claim my vote for dtsund as a vote for Vorpal, please.

Whoops, sorry.

You missed: He's not my target but he may be planning on killing me.

Well that's true for 18 other players as well.

Kylie
04-11-2011, 08:01 PM
I am definitely not sold on VorpalEdge being the infiltrator - if he is, then he's the dumbest infiltrator ever for calling attention to his own Nefarious Plot. I suspect he's just an Agent with a great idea that apparently doesn't want to work. Which isn't to say he shouldn't die. Heck, he might want to kill me.

But my chance of hitting that jackpot is the same as with anyone else minus the infiltrator, which is its own prize.

Umby
04-11-2011, 08:12 PM
It doesn't make sense for dtsund to be infiltrator, though. His plan, although kind of flawed and would take $20 from everyone, would also make it easy to reveal that he was, in fact, the infiltrator. There's no reason he could of even just thrown out the idea. I'm going to keep my hands clean today, and just sit back and sip some vodka.

Also, I am not the infiltrator.

Eddie
04-11-2011, 08:23 PM
I'm with Byron. If Vorpal is the infiltrator, he had a million reasons not to suggest that plan (including: what if another truth detector appears tomorrow?).

Don't forget that his comments also break open the possibilities of the detector; if it can evaluate statements of truth regardless of what the person who is saying them knows, then there are plenty of other statements that could be evaluated through it. Imagine being able to say "has the infiltrator posted during the last 10 posts?" Such a statement could narrow who he is down quite effectively, even on day 3 or 4.

For this reason, I'm willing to give Vorpal the benefit of the doubt. I'm not sure who I'll vote for, but it definitely won't be him.

- Eddie

Repeater
04-11-2011, 08:34 PM
I'm not particularly sold on the idea of Vorpal as infiltrator either so I think I'm going to go with the guy looking to keep his hands clean.
I accuse Umby.

Karzac
04-11-2011, 08:35 PM
I'm with Byron. If Vorpal is the infiltrator, he had a million reasons not to suggest that plan (including: what if another truth detector appears tomorrow?).


Unless I'm mistaken, all the items are unique. They'll only be showing up once each.

Eddie
04-11-2011, 08:40 PM
Unless I'm mistaken, all the items are unique. They'll only be showing up once each.

I think I counted 40 items (20 daytime, 20 nighttime)? If there are always 10 for sale each day, then what happens on day 5? Maybe there won't be any items for sale that day?

- Eddie

Umby
04-11-2011, 08:40 PM
I'm not particularly sold on the idea of Vorpal as infiltrator either so I think I'm going to go with the guy looking to keep his hands clean.
I accuse Umby.

What is the logic behind throwing me into the brink? I've disclosed everything I've needed to help the Applicants find the Infiltrator. I see no reason to throw anyone into the brink at all. If I had a reason, I'd vote for someone. I'm keeping my hands clean because there's no upside in dirtying them. Obviously, nobody on the list of people who are voted for are my target, and no candidates on there seem like the infiltrator to me. Actually, I'd throw my vote your way for being so willing to bandwagon.

I vote for Repeater.

Destil
04-11-2011, 08:41 PM
I think I counted 40 items (20 daytime, 20 nighttime)? If there are always 10 for sale each day, then what happens on day 5? Maybe there won't be any items for sale that day?

- Eddie

Indeed. There's nothing for sale the last two days except for leftovers.

Repeater
04-11-2011, 09:03 PM
Ah yes, I'm riding high on my bandwagon alongside... no one, your reasoning is flawless. And there certainly is an upside in dirtying them, with a hard limit on days it doesn't particularly matter if the "town" is reduced killing someone gives you a chance at hitting either the infiltrator or the person targeting you. Higher numbers only benefit the infiltrator. In addition, should you turn up dead tomorrow you vote might provide at least some additional information which might be useful in figuring out who the infiltrator is and any additional information is of use.

Kylie
04-11-2011, 09:06 PM
Additionally, the plan might never have worked - to me, the word "truth" and "lie" imply intent, and when we say "I am not the Infiltrator" or "Bill Cosby is not my target" we have that. When we make global statements about the game, though, we don't have intent. It's almost too easy to break the game that way.

Umby
04-11-2011, 09:08 PM
I vote for Umby.

For now.

You took up voting with someone else way back when to take attention off of you and onto me. Ok, I think you're correct on how voting gets us information, and I believe that your move is undeniably more suspicious than anything else I've seen so far. My vote is better on you than it is on no one, of course.

Agent Prime
04-11-2011, 09:13 PM
The weather had finally settled down, so many of the Jonathan Christian's passengers headed up to finally get a look at the ocean. The sun was heading toward the horizon as kaisel, Karzac, and spineshark leaned against the railing. Well, kaisel and spineshark were leaning against the railing; Karzac, however, had hung himself on it out of sheer misery.

"Just breathe, man," kaisel said, giving Karzac a heavy slap on his back.

"You two... my drink... in it..." Karzac slurred, pale as the clouds floating past them.

spineshark bent down to look the sick man in the eye. "That's what you get for slandering our fair country," he said, smirking.

"Yeah, sure, JohnB's a vulgar son of a bitch, but that doesn't mean you can talk about America in that way. You Canadians are no better than that Slavic brute," kaisel added. "We're not cold-hearted, though -- we could have left you to drown in your own vomit, but here you are in the fresh air."

"Takes all the fun out of killing you later," spineshark nodded.

"Is this... where... thank you?" Karzac groaned, then turned and attempted to run for the nearest restroom. Unfortunately, he made it as far as the pool, and the two men turned away as he cast up the many drinks he had for lunch. They walked away as a sunbather screamed, hitting him over the head with her Bible.

"Cigarette?" spineshark offered, as he fished around his pockets for his lighter. As his hand passed over the Facilitator, it started to whirr, and he pulled it out to see what the trouble was. Agent Prime's voice came through the static:

Good afternoon, applicants. Nightfall is rapidly approaching. How will you handle the situation before you? Please remember that you must all come to a decision by sunset. Your vote counts will appear on your R&D Auctioneering Facilitator's screen now.

Current Vote Status

dtsund (1)
poetfox (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023667&postcount=210)

JohnB (1)
dtsund (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022538&postcount=25)

Loki (0)
JohnB (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022762&postcount=77)

Nich (1)
Destil (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022689&postcount=50)

Repeater (1)
Umby (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023844&postcount=230)

Tock (3)
JohnB (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1022840&postcount=79)
Nich (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023052&postcount=130)
Byron (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023377&postcount=166)

Umby (2)
spineshark (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023546&postcount=168)
Repeater (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023836&postcount=227)

VorpalEdge (4)
dwolfe (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023630&postcount=199)
dtsund (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023644&postcount=202)
shivam (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023662&postcount=208)
Tanto (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023750&postcount=216)

You have approximately twelve hours remaining in the day. Please use your time wisely.

Repeater
04-11-2011, 09:13 PM
Nah, you're just revenge voting. That's cool though.

Karzac
04-11-2011, 09:56 PM
Filthy Americans, trying to poison the True North Strong and Free! You'd better lay off me, or I'll burn down your house again!

Back to the game, I guess it's time for me to put a vote on the books.

So, I accuse Tock.

The dude's only got three posts, and while lynching the quiet guy may not be a foolproof strategy, there's always at least one low poster on a Mafia team. The Infiltrator's only one guy, with nobody to back him up if thing's get tough, so it seems to me that he'd want to stay quiet, especially on Day 1 before he can start manipulating people via PM.

It's not a great reason to kill somebody, but it's about as good as I've got.

Tock
04-11-2011, 10:31 PM
Welp, I guess the Truth Detector thing is a wash. Which is a pain, because I was kind of waiting around for some exoneration. I figured a 50/50 chance that I'm not in the same cohort as the Infiltrator is better odds than actually trying to defend against a Day One lynch, but it was not to be. (Thanks, Truth-Detector-having jerkface.)

I accuse VorpalEdge

since I'm not the Infiltrator, and I don't know what that guy is (other than not my target). Odds are that I'm just doing some agent's dirty work for them, but it can't be helped.

kaisel
04-11-2011, 10:41 PM
I'm not liking this at all. No real solid leads at the moment, and the only concrete piece of information that I have is who my target is. Not liking that, though I suppose it is only day 1. I'm not liking the Vorpal vote, even suggesting that we use the Truth Detector to hunt down the Infiltrator (or use it to try to trap said infiltrator) is a pretty ballsy move for someone trying to lay low. Granted I will come out and say that VorpalEdge isn't my target, so there's at least that at any rate.

For me though, I think I'm going to vote for the person shooting down the other potential Infiltrator strategy (even if I felt the strategy was pretty bad), and someone who's really hyping up the distrust: Poetfox. Granted, I do agree with a lot of her statements, but her ideas that planning out things in secret is the way to go is something that doesn't sit particularly well with me, it sounds too much like JohnB's plan of "someone out there will take care of it".

Besides, without talking about plans to catch the Infiltrator, what else can we talk about during the day phase, unless we're all in our alliances jockeying to get our target killed. No, I like that not at all.

As much as it pains me to try to get someone other than a vile Canadian or a Communist thrown overboard...

I accuse Poetfox.

Tock
04-11-2011, 10:48 PM
The Infiltrator's only one guy, with nobody to back him up if thing's get tough, so it seems to me that he'd want to stay quiet, especially on Day 1 before he can start manipulating people via PM.

This is WIFOM territory here, but: Day One accusations tend to get hung on either the Idea Men or the Quiet, so I'd think the Infiltrator would either be trying to avoid these characterizations to play defensively, or going out on a limb and playing offensively to set up some cover. Either rolling the dice and trying to direct the flow of conversation, or remaining quiet-but-not-too-quiet. My gut take on the day is that, once again, our two choices are the Idea Guy (Vorpal) and the Too Quiet Guy (myself), neither of whom are particularly likely to be the Infiltrator.

Of the two, I think the Idea Guy is somewhat more likely to be the Infiltrator, but I am obviously coming at this with a little bit of bias.

Destil
04-11-2011, 10:49 PM
Of all the votes on the table right now, I like the vorpal edge one the least. I don't like punishing a guy for having a good idea.

Wait, what the hell am I saying. He could be coming for me with those good ideas next. Yeah, no deal. ...unless someone wants to cough up 10 bucks.

Tock, buddy, I'll give you a discount: $5 and I help you put Vorpal away.

McClain
04-11-2011, 11:15 PM
The Vorpal voters are the ones that catch my eye, and one in particular: Shivam (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023662&postcount=208)

His vote came without much explaination other than "sounds good to me," even though it was almost imediately after Destil (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1023654&postcount=204) and I started thinking how stupid it would be for Vorpal to even bring up a plan in the first place if he were the infiltrator.

I Vote Shivam.

... and then I see Destil is willing to sell a vote for Vorpal. Really?

shivam
04-11-2011, 11:20 PM
I'll unvote Vorpal if it makes you happy mcclain. I have no truck in his death either, aside from the potential that he might be after me. or you might be after me.

oh god, so alone...

Destil
04-11-2011, 11:35 PM
... and then I see Destil is willing to sell a vote for Vorpal. Really?

I generally agree with Tock, he and vorpal both don't stand out as likely suspects. So I'm sticking to Nich for now, but if I can make a buck off something I can't prevent anyway, sure. Why not? Money can be exchanged for goods and services, which also may help find/kill the infiltrator.

Knight
04-11-2011, 11:52 PM
if I can make a buck off something I can't prevent anyway, sure. Why not? Money can be exchanged for goods and services, which also may help find/kill the infiltrator.
This. Someone's getting tossed overboard tonight, and with shivam un-accusing Vorpal, I believe that brings them back to 4 votes each, which means there's an opportunity. Since both Destil and I are offering to sell our votes, it's in their interest to buy them, if they have the cash. The money won't do them any good if they're dead, so buying a vote or two to save their life or even to tie the vote to give them a chance of living is good idea.

Yes, the possibility exists that one of them could be the Infiltrator. But that's 1 person out of 22, and I'm ok with playing those odds.

Tock
04-12-2011, 01:01 AM
Yeah, I don't much want to do this either, as Vorpal's not my target, and I don't really suspect him to be the Infiltrator. Frankly, it seems most likely that the Infiltrator is someone without any votes on them at all; in the aftermath of the Silent Truth Detector, folks seem to be either going after their targets or taking shots in the dark. But I'm kind of backed into a corner, so:

Hey Destil and Knight: I will pay your respective asking prices tonight in return for your votes for VorpalEdge. Offer obviously void in the event of my death.

Also: if a better, non-Vorpal, non-me target presents themselves, feel free to shift your vote to them instead, so long as the end result is still me being alive to pay you tonight. I can't guarantee that I'll be able to check back in before the day phase ends tomorrow morning, but I'm willing to do the same as well (for free!). As I said, Vorpal's only real selling point to me is that he is Not Me.

spineshark
04-12-2011, 01:45 AM
It sounds good, except that I don't know that such a clever plan would work in the long run, since it might attract unwanted attention right back on him ... like this!
This is the sort of thing that is always bullshit. Nobody ever does something suspicious like this just because it's funny. Revealing this plan when you actually have the detector and don't intend to use it has no benefit versus keeping it all to yourself.

It's also possible that multiple players tied and nobody wanted to go for the Final Offer. In which case, it'll be back. Possibly soon! I'm not ready to let that have an influence on my decision one way or the other.

VorpalEdge
04-12-2011, 01:45 AM
If the Infiltrator has it already, their best strategy would be to suggest this plan and totally derail our day one discussion and ensure they can't be found by this method.

No, the best strategy would be to think of a way to use it to get someone killed.

I can't be bothered to say more than that, because now I want to see if this vote will go through or not. It'll be hilarious if it does, so I honestly don't care either way.

Destil
04-12-2011, 02:00 AM
I'm also down with killing shivam. How many vote's he got against him? Can Tock, Knight and I push him over the edge (heh).

For now:

I accuse Vorpal Edge.

Destil
04-12-2011, 02:06 AM
Quick mental recount, and it looks like it's Umby, Vorpal or Tock right now. I'm not feeling Umby either (these choices all kind of suck), so unless I get woken up early for some reason day's going to end before I'm back.

Tock, pleasure doing business with you.

Merus
04-12-2011, 02:12 AM
Unless they're (stupidly) planning to hold onto it after using it, I'd say that it practically guarantees the Infiltrator won't kill them. Unless the Infiltrator is retardedly petty, they're better off choosing to kill someone from the pool of confirmed Applicants. That way, they have a 1 in 10 chance of killing the recipient of the Truth Detector.

I was under the impression that the Infiltrator acted before any trades, not after.

There is no reason for the owner of the Truth Detector to stay silent, unless they are the Infiltrator. The Truth Detector isn't going to help them kill their target anywhere near as much as it'll help kill the Infiltrator.

Additionally, the plan might never have worked - to me, the word "truth" and "lie" imply intent, and when we say "I am not the Infiltrator" or "Bill Cosby is not my target" we have that. When we make global statements about the game, though, we don't have intent. It's almost too easy to break the game that way.

How would the owner of the Truth Detector know that's the case, though? These devices don't exactly come with detailed instructions, and it's not unknown for Mafia rules to have gigantic holes in them. The only way we can find out is to try it.



Also: my vote's for sale, too. $10 public, minimum $20 in private + appearance of acting on my own suspicions (one per day).

Merus
04-12-2011, 02:38 AM
I was under the impression that the Infiltrator acted before any trades, not after.

I should clarify: I was under this impression until I checked the rules, and you are correct, therefore there is no reason blah blah blah.

spineshark
04-12-2011, 04:35 AM
I don't have anything vested in Umby either, I just want to him to stop being so tepid. Like seriously, fuck it, you don't really have anything to lose from anyone else dying. Anybody who gets lynched that isn't your target or you might well be the infiltrator as far as you know, at least today. On that note, I'm not for sale.

I vote for Tock.

Who, like Umby, is not my target. And Vorpal isn't either. Whatever.

VorpalEdge
04-12-2011, 04:39 AM
Going to vote for Tock on the off chance that I can save myself.

VorpalEdge
04-12-2011, 04:43 AM
oh right, accusations and shit have gotta be on their own separate line now. Forgot.

I vote Tock.

And good night. Try not to drown me in my sleep.

botticus
04-12-2011, 04:48 AM
I can't be bothered to say more than that, because now I want to see if this vote will go through or not. It'll be hilarious if it does, so I honestly don't care either way.
What does this mean, exactly? That you have the Inflatable Underwear? Unlike regular Mafia there is no team win on either side, so I'm not sure what silence buys you.

VorpalEdge
04-12-2011, 04:59 AM
I always enjoy watching weird situations unfold in ridiculous and/or funny ways. Don't need inflatable underwear for that. And while it would be nice if I won, I'm not Brick, and my heart doesn't break if I lose.

Loki
04-12-2011, 05:05 AM
Well as long as this votes going through with no hard evidence I'm going to vote for the person that I think is more likely to be the Infiltrator.

I vote for Tock.

Sorry darling, nothing personal. This is just a case of pier pressure.

botticus
04-12-2011, 06:08 AM
So my list of those who have not denied being the Infiltrator is down to Destil, dtsund, and spineshark.

Destil states he bid $1 on the Truth Detector.

dtsund states that he is not targeting Vorpal, Destil, or Karzac; he does not have the Truth Detector; he did not bid on the Truth Detector.

spineshark states that he does not have the Truth Detector; he bid $80 on two items that were not the Truth Detector; he is not targeting Umby or Tock.

Evaluating these post histories under the assumption that the Infiltrator does not have the Truth Detector, spineshark seems least guilty here (alternately, most sneaky) based on the detail provided. However, it is possible he could have bid $80 on two items that were not the Truth Detector, but also bid $70 on something else and still be truthful.

Similarly, Destil and dtsund make no claims that could not be made by an Infiltrator who does not have the Truth Detector, but simply make fewer of them. dtsund otherwise presents a snitch plan that may or may not be effective if utilized, while Destil props up Vorpal's Truth Detector strategy.

I accuse Destil.

I'm a little uneasy doing so when he is assisting with a plan that would (potentially and eventually) be his undoing, but at the same time, the plan is out there with few downsides, and by being the one putting the list together, he likely cuts down the odds that he would be the one in the "dirty" group that would be thrown overboard.

JohnB
04-12-2011, 06:38 AM
The problem with these Truth Deterector declarations (and lack thereof) is that at this point in the game it is increasingly apparent that the Infiltrator owns it. Thus, he or she can say whatever the fuck they want in the thread without reproccussion. If an applicant is holding onto it they'd better have a good goddamn reason for doing so... I just cant imagine what that might be.

JohnB
04-12-2011, 06:41 AM
And why the fuck do you all think Tock is the Infiltrator, again? I just don't understand it. I feel like I'm the only one to have bothered with an explanation for it. I don't think Vorpal is the infiltrator, but at least I have some idea why people have fingered him.

I unvote Tock.

I vote for Umby.

Because seriously, fuck that guy.

botticus
04-12-2011, 06:52 AM
The problem with these Truth Deterector declarations (and lack thereof) is that at this point in the game it is increasingly apparent that the Infiltrator owns it. Thus, he or she can say whatever the fuck they want in the thread without reproccussion. If an applicant is holding onto it they'd better have a good goddamn reason for doing so... I just cant imagine what that might be.

For today, I'm willing to assume that the Infiltrator does not have it. Yeah, they could have decided it's worth a premium, but it seems there are far better places for them to direct their money.

If Day 2 rolls around and the TD isn't back on the auction block (as someone said, it could have been a tied vote that neither party wanted to go all in on) I'll probably abandon this train of thought for more productive avenues.

poetfox
04-12-2011, 06:58 AM
Every one of you who is voting for Vorpal without being bribed is being kind of stupid. Seriously, there are so many more useful vectors for trolling and manipulating with the Truth Detector than throwing out this plan and then sitting on it. I refuse to believe the Infiltrator would do that. You're all being silly and wasting a lynch.

Everyone who is being bribed should buy me a soda with that sweet, sweet bribe money.

My vote's staying where it is: nobody else has shown me anything that makes me more suspicious of other targets. Well, except that poetfox character. She's telling us not to talk about plans that are useless or something like that. We should probably all discuss completely useless things instead of trying to find the Infiltrator, don't you think, kaisel?