PDA

View Full Version : This is what it sounds like when hardcore gamers cry


ArugulaZ
06-08-2007, 11:31 AM
http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/06/cliffy_bs_broth.html

Parish already discussed this on his site in an excellent op/ed piece, but I'm bringing it up again, just for the opportunity to complain about how inwardly focused and SELFISH these so-called "hardcore" gamers can be. They're already complaining about how the Wii's industry paradigm shift will rob them of all their favorite games, like Doom clone, Doom clone, and uh... yeah, that other Doom clone.

Hey pal, some of us have had to do without OUR favorite games for the past twelve years, ever since the Playstation came into the picture. Thanks to the constant demands of individuals like yourself, we've been deprived of 2D games, so much so that even a flawed title like Odin Sphere seems like a swallow of cool, fresh water in the middle of the Sahara Desert. We've had to put up with this crap for over a decade, and you're already complaining that the Wii will put an end to your Grand Theft Auto knock-offs, even though it hasn't actually happened yet?

Here's a fun idea, dirtbag. Why don't you SHARE the video game industry with the rest of us instead of acting like it's all yours and jealously guarding it like it was the one ring to rule them all? You've had enough Metal Gear Solid... heaven knows the rest of us have. Time to step away from the controller and let someone else have a little fun for a change.

JR

djSyndrome
06-08-2007, 11:36 AM
So you're blaming the PlayStation for a consumer shift in desires to 3D graphics? That's like blaming RCA for making black-and-white television passť.

I'll take a moment remind to you that the Ultra/N64 was in parallel development with the PlayStation, and Nintendo touted its 3D capabilities in the press every chance it had. Remember the FFVI 3D demo?

alexb
06-08-2007, 11:36 AM
I understand where he's coming from, even if I don't share his prediction. But I don't think things are going to play out quite like he expects. I do think we'll see a change in the way games are made. But we still haven't seen whether or not this mainstream gaming is a fad that they'll move on from, just like they did with Beanie Babies and Who Wants to Be a Millionaire. And there will always be some people who will make the traditional hardcore game. But I do think he's right in that most grandmas aren't going to graduate from Wii Play to Zelda.

nadia
06-08-2007, 12:54 PM
Only a bad man would groan at the sight of a grandma buying Cooking Mama.

Maggie
06-08-2007, 01:52 PM
Yeah, that was kind of bewildering. I don't even understand where he's coming from. It's bad that more people are enjoying games because they'll taint things with their inferior tastes or what? And I always assumed games like Halo and Gears of War appealed more to casual gamers than hardcore ones, but I don't know. Hardcore gamer, to me, is someone who, say, loves Nippon Ichi games or.. something like that. Well, that's just one genre example, but you see what I mean.

bobservo
06-08-2007, 02:26 PM
This sounds just like comic book fans.

"Different people giving our industry money is KILLING OUR INDUSTRY!"

Mister Toups
06-08-2007, 02:34 PM
Posting in a meta-nerd rage thread.

Parish
06-08-2007, 02:34 PM
Ultimately there's no point in fixating on people like this. Their pettiness seems fairly self-evident to anyone who doesn't share their perspective. The comic book comparison is, as always, dead on.

And in any case, Nintendo (and inevitably everyone else who rushes in to cash in on this blue ocean discovery) will listen the money rather than a relatively small number of whiny people on message boards. As always, really.

sraymonds
06-08-2007, 02:38 PM
Dammit, I knew I should have looked at this thread before burning all of my Nintendo gear for not having games with grey landscapes! Damn you Cliffy B's brother!

thomp538
06-08-2007, 03:02 PM
Not to go all Nintendo fanboy, but hey, it sounds to me about developers and designers whining that they actually have to be creative with these new control schemes instead of just, you know, cloning the same game over and over.

They'll be pulled kicking and screaming into the revolution, erm, Wii.

Lumber Baron
06-08-2007, 03:26 PM
The thing is, I don't see these new games eating too much of the hardcore games' cake. Gaming's chock full of lucrative series that appeal to the hardcore. Halo 3's going to sell like the hottest cakes imaginable; these games aren't in danger.

If the entire focus of the Wii and like-minded projects is to expand the gaming market, who would be worried about them replacing hardcore games?

thomp538
06-08-2007, 03:33 PM
The thing is, I don't see these new games eating too much of the hardcore games' cake. Gaming's chock full of lucrative series that appeal to the hardcore. Halo 3's going to sell like the hottest cakes imaginable; these games aren't in danger.

If the entire focus of the Wii and like-minded projects is to expand the gaming market, who would be worried about them replacing hardcore games?
Because then the terrorists win.

Jeanie
06-08-2007, 04:11 PM
Because then the terrorists win.

Every time someone says that, Baby Jesus cries.

poetfox
06-08-2007, 04:27 PM
Appealing to the casual games market works because there are so many people who could fit into that category, so when even a small portion of them buys a game, it's a ton of money, and money they wouldn't have gotten before. But it's not their constant stream of revenue.
I have a friend, Droid. He's an extremely casual gamer. He bought a DS and Wii. This is money in Nintendo's pocket that they got by appealing to the casual crowd. Good job Nintendo! But he buys maybe one game a year. He'll play that one game in little spurts and he's happy with that. I play a ton of games, and would probably be considered hardcore. I buy at least one game a month, if not more. Droid does not need a constant stream of casual titles. He just needs them to exist so, every so often, when he gets the urge or gets tired of Wii Sports or something, he can pick one up. It's important to make games he would want to pick up, sure. But it's more important to make more hardcore games for me to buy every month, because I am constantly on the prowl for new, fun games to consume. As a fairly hardcore gamer, I will keep pumping money constantly into the system, whereas Droid, the casual gamer, will give a free boost every once and awhile.
You can't make nothing but a constant stream of casual games, because you will eventually oversaturate the market. It's hard to do this with the hardcore crowd. That's why game development percentages will always be skewed more toward hardcore audiences than the casual. Granted, right now people are realizing that casual gamers have money, and are making a bit more than usual. But that will eventually even out. Also, you're seeing things like Planet Puzzle League, where you're really trying to make hardcore games friendly to the casual people, while keeping in the features that rabid Puzzle League fans like myself want, such as online multiplayer. I don't see how anyone could complain about that sort of thing, as they're still getting the game they want, underneath it all, but I guess they do.
Anyway, I rewrote these thoughts like three times and I still don't know if what I was trying to say got across. Feel free to shoot it full of holes.

Vahn16
06-08-2007, 04:57 PM
If the industry is getting more money pupmed into it, I don't see what the problem is. Poetfox is right that casual and hardcore gamers will continue to co-exist, just like always. Companies can't depend on casual gamers as a revenue stream because they don't buy enough. Therefore, even if developers start making more casual games, they will always need to cater towards the hardcore gamer, as well.

dangerhelvetica
06-08-2007, 07:38 PM
I must have missed when "plays FPS" became the criterion for being a hardcore gamer.

sraymonds
06-08-2007, 07:42 PM
I must have missed when "plays FPS" became the criterion for being a hardcore gamer.

Looks like someone's not getting their merit badge.

Deadguy2322
06-08-2007, 07:43 PM
Two thoughts:

1. Casual gamers are great for system sales, but lousy for software sales.

2. Halo IS a casual game. It just doesn't appeal to the Wii/Bejewelled demographic. For that matter, Madden is a casual game.

sraymonds
06-08-2007, 07:53 PM
2. Halo IS a casual game. It just doesn't appeal to the Wii/Bejewelled demographic. For that matter, Madden is a casual game.

WHAT.

When I think casual, I think games that aren't complex, like Text Twist or Bejewelled. There is an insane amount of complex button combinations to learn to play Madden. Backyard Football, that's casual.

Deadguy2322
06-08-2007, 07:56 PM
There is an insane amount of complex button combinations to learn to play Madden. Backyard Football, that's casual.

WTF? Madden can be played with only 3 buttons used, total. Yes, it can be played deeper, but lots of fratboys play it that way, while drunk.

Excitemike
06-08-2007, 07:58 PM
Two thoughts:

1. Casual gamers are great for system sales, but lousy for software sales.

Hiroshi Yamauchi would disagree with you. The sales for casual games are so good that there are very many being made. That's why gamers keep having this discussion.

Kishi
06-08-2007, 07:59 PM
Maybe the breadth of a game's appeal can be defined in terms slightly more specific than just "casual" and "hardcore."

Excitemike
06-08-2007, 09:29 PM
Maybe the breadth of a game's appeal can be defined in terms slightly more specific than just "casual" and "hardcore."
Man, now that would make a good thread. We need some adequate language up in here.

chocogaz
06-08-2007, 09:45 PM
Man, now that would make a good thread. We need some adequate language up in here.

No no no. That makes way too much sense. We're fanboys here. We need to be like, grouping everything that we don't like under one banner then flaming it to death to improve our own egos.

Like: Ham. WTF ham?!? Maybe if it tried to be NOT pork then maybe everyone wouldn't be buying beef!

Mister Toups
06-08-2007, 09:46 PM
Every time someone says that, Baby Jesus cries.

Every time someone says that, an angel loses its wings.

Also I'd say Halo is a casual game. Casual games are defined by their audience, not their mechanics. The fact that there are countless people who own xboxes and the only games they have are Halo and Madden would put those games squarely into the "casual" bracket for me.

Jeanie
06-08-2007, 09:46 PM
Well honestly, if you debate what a hardcore gamer is, you're a hardcore gamer. Casual gamers don't care, they just want to play their darn Tetris/Bejeweled/Wii Sports, what-have-you, and leave the internet to the crazy people.

I just had a terrible image of the debate over what a hardcore/casual gamer is turning into a bunch of "you might be a redneck" type jokes.

ArugulaZ
06-08-2007, 09:47 PM
I always thought that gamers like ourselves should be classified as "gamonds." You know, like gourmands, except with a keen interest in the most exotic and refined gaming experiences. The weight thing would remain the same, though.

JR

Psyael
06-08-2007, 10:11 PM
Wii games targeted at non-gamers are the Deer Hunter of the 2000s. It too shall pass.

chocogaz
06-08-2007, 10:13 PM
Wii games targeted at non-gamers are the Deer Hunter of the 2000s. It too shall pass.

Or at the very least carve out it's own niche market.

VsRobot
06-08-2007, 10:22 PM
Being elitist about this hobby is really shitty. Guess what guys, the more people who get into gaming, the sooner shitty politicians have to look for a new scapegoat to crow about from their soapboxes

Maggie
06-08-2007, 10:34 PM
Wii games targeted at non-gamers are the Deer Hunter of the 2000s. It too shall pass.

If not for the "2000s," there could be a whole, sinister Russian Roulette reference in there.

Anyway, I don't understand this issue enough to really get up in arms about it. I just don't think about it much. There are certain games I like to play and they're still being made and I would think they'll continue to be made or I'll just find new games to play. No big deal.

Deadguy2322
06-09-2007, 06:09 AM
I always thought that gamers like ourselves should be classified as "gamonds." You know, like gourmands, except with a keen interest in the most exotic and refined gaming experiences. The weight thing would remain the same, though.

JR

So, really that is a comparison more to gourmets than gourmands.

A gourmand doesn't care if it is shit or caviar, he'll eat it.

Then again, on a board with so many Nintendo fans, the gourmand comparison may be accurate...

nadia
06-09-2007, 07:27 AM
Then again, on a board with so many Nintendo fans, the gourmand comparison may be accurate...

On a board where you happen to possess one of the highest post counts.

The fact that there are countless people who own xboxes and the only games they have are Halo and Madden would put those games squarely into the "casual" bracket for me.

I'm inclined to agree. My brother's a big fan of FPS and Hockey games. We tried to make him play Contra: Shattered Soldier, and he nearly threw up because it was 2D. So he's not big into the idea of exploring beyond his favourite genres.

alexb
06-09-2007, 08:27 AM
Being elitist about this hobby is really shitty. Guess what guys, the more people who get into gaming, the sooner shitty politicians have to look for a new scapegoat to crow about from their soapboxes

I don't know why you think that. The mainstream acceptance of video games as a whole is a different issue. Look at the controversy over rap music in the 80s. The people who were trying to censor that kind of music listened to music of their own. Soccer moms aren't going to be any more understanding of GTA after they've played Wii Sports than they were before.

Tomm Guycot
06-09-2007, 10:53 AM
My favorite part is when he was complaining that if the Wii keeps on booming, all we'll have is kiddy casual titles that you play in short bursts based on licensed games.

Then in contrast he talks about all the rad games 360 has, like Viva Pinata.





Hmmmm...

Parish
06-09-2007, 11:06 AM
Viva Pinata is mature! You can make worms have sex.

Tomm Guycot
06-09-2007, 11:25 AM
Then again, on a board with so many Nintendo fans, the gourmand comparison may be accurate...

Dude, seriously. What NeoGAF link did you follow to get here?

VsRobot
06-09-2007, 11:26 AM
This message is hidden because Deadguy2322 is on your ignore list.

When you quote the troll, it breaks the illusion that the troll doesn't exist. Now I'm off to masturbate to SSB or be fat or whatever else it is us lesser beings do.

Deadguy2322
06-09-2007, 11:44 AM
When you quote the troll, it breaks the illusion that the troll doesn't exist. Now I'm off to masturbate to SSB or be fat or whatever else it is us lesser beings do.

Funny how holding opinions at odds with the prevailing groupthink gets one labelled a troll.

Oh well. Better a troll than a sheep.

ArugulaZ
06-09-2007, 11:52 AM
Funny how holding opinions at odds with the prevailing groupthink gets one labelled a troll.

It's the way most forums work. If you want less resistance, find a forum with a groupthink that's more compatible with your own.

JR

Squall
06-09-2007, 11:52 AM
Shhh! I don't think he can hear you.

poetfox
06-09-2007, 11:57 AM
Funny how holding opinions at odds with the prevailing groupthink gets one labelled a troll.

Oh well. Better a troll than a sheep.

See, since people have had differing opinons on this board and I can't remember that happening before, I really don't know how true that is.
It's more the difference between saying "I think something different than you." and "You all are wrong."
I totally see how someone can hate Smash Brothers, or hell, a ton of Nintendo games. But that does not, in any way, make people who enjoy them wrong.

Deadguy2322
06-09-2007, 12:03 PM
It's the way most forums work. If you want less resistance, find a forum with a groupthink that's more compatible with your own.

JR

But the conversation is far less interesting. If I only wanted to discuss things within an atmosphere of total agreement, I'd just talk to myself and save the wear on my keyboard.

Kishi
06-09-2007, 12:03 PM
It's not about having popular opinions. The important thing is to express your opinions, whatever they may be, in a manner not becoming of a total jerk. And if you can't do that, well, the Pit of Flames is just a few links down.

Deadguy2322
06-09-2007, 12:06 PM
I totally see how someone can hate Smash Brothers, or hell, a ton of Nintendo games. But that does not, in any way, make people who enjoy them wrong.

No, but it is the way they project the whole bullshit attitude that only Nintendo makes fun games, and if you don't like them you're somehow less of a gamer. That is what is wrong.

Maybe I do express my opinions on the subject strongly, but I have seen posts similar to mine go uncriticized on the old TT because they were directed at the "right" things.

shivam
06-09-2007, 12:32 PM
i think its more that you're setting yourself up to be directly and deliberately confrontational, which generally isnt the modus operandii of this forum. Furthermore, you're actively categorizing us all as ninty fanboys, when its far more likely that we're console agnostic as a whole. Yes, this board tends to lean away from sports and shooters and rts games, but that's not aiming particularly at one console or another.

Seriously, dude, its ok to have an opinion that goes against the prevailing wind of the forum. but if your only response to a post is to shit on the topic, it's probably better to just skip to the next topic.

Tomm Guycot
06-09-2007, 12:35 PM
Deadguy--no, you're expressing your opinion in a way that makes you sound like an asshole, that's why you're getting resistance.

I hate Halo, and judging from the response, EVERYONE on this board loves Halo. But nobody ever called me a troll over it. I also don't get where you think that I think ONLY Nintendo makes fun games. My favorite game is Metal Gear Solid 3 and my favorite RPG is Dragon Quest 8.

Everyone here is talking about Odin Sphere, Etrian, etc etc. Nobody here ONLY plays Nintendo games. But implying that anyone who enjoys Nintendo's games is a retard makes you look pretty bad. Nintendo makes some of the best games in the industry (and the reason is they throw far more money and time into the games than most other companies outside Blizzard--also known for quality games). Hating Nintendo cause their games are candy-colored, hey, that's your perogative, but implying that everyone who finds the engaging gameplay of a Nintendo game to be engaging is "wrong" somehow... wtf is up with that?

Deadguy2322
06-09-2007, 12:59 PM
Deadguy--no, you're expressing your opinion in a way that makes you sound like an asshole, that's why you're getting resistance.

I hate Halo, and judging from the response, EVERYONE on this board loves Halo. But nobody ever called me a troll over it. I also don't get where you think that I think ONLY Nintendo makes fun games. My favorite game is Metal Gear Solid 3 and my favorite RPG is Dragon Quest 8.

Everyone here is talking about Odin Sphere, Etrian, etc etc. Nobody here ONLY plays Nintendo games. But implying that anyone who enjoys Nintendo's games is a retard makes you look pretty bad. Nintendo makes some of the best games in the industry (and the reason is they throw far more money and time into the games than most other companies outside Blizzard--also known for quality games). Hating Nintendo cause their games are candy-colored, hey, that's your perogative, but implying that everyone who finds the engaging gameplay of a Nintendo game to be engaging is "wrong" somehow... wtf is up with that?

Nintendo also craps out tons of half-baked rehash, probably more than anybody else. Most other companies at least create new characters more than once a decade, or at least puts the old ones into new plots. I have nothing agaisnt candy-colored, hell Klonoa and Mr. Driller are two of my all-time favorites.

What bugs the shit out of me about Nintendo is that the emperor has no clothes. They don't innovate any more than anybody else, they have a history of cutting corners on their hardware, and they regard their customers very cynically, yet legions of fans act as though they crap sunshine.

The only thing more annoying than Nintendo fanboys are linux zealots, and anybody who uses the contraction ninty deserves a slap.

shivam
06-09-2007, 01:19 PM
was being lazy. you know what i meant.

Deadguy2322
06-09-2007, 01:23 PM
was being lazy. you know what i meant.

I'll overlook it this time. ;P

nadia
06-09-2007, 01:29 PM
What bugs the shit out of me about Nintendo is that the emperor has no clothes. They don't innovate any more than anybody else, they have a history of cutting corners on their hardware, and they regard their customers very cynically, yet legions of fans act as though they crap sunshine.

Which is why the N64 and Gamecube finished up last in their respective console wars, I guess?

alexb
06-09-2007, 01:47 PM
I thought that was due to a curse, like the one that killed Bruce Lee and his babies.

nadia
06-09-2007, 01:50 PM
The curse laid by a one-legged gypsy because of Yamauchi's no good, pig-stealing great-great-great grandfather.

...Anyone else read "Holes?"

Jeanie
06-09-2007, 02:56 PM
Nintendo also craps out tons of half-baked rehash, probably more than anybody else. Most other companies at least create new characters more than once a decade, or at least puts the old ones into new plots. I have nothing agaisnt candy-colored, hell Klonoa and Mr. Driller are two of my all-time favorites.

What bugs the shit out of me about Nintendo is that the emperor has no clothes. They don't innovate any more than anybody else, they have a history of cutting corners on their hardware, and they regard their customers very cynically, yet legions of fans act as though they crap sunshine.

The only thing more annoying than Nintendo fanboys are linux zealots, and anybody who uses the contraction ninty deserves a slap.

See I had respect for ya until you accused Nintendo of making shitty hardware. My 8-bit NES STILL works (it was a Power Pad one), my SNES still works, my Game Boy (back when color meant color of the case) still works. And there's the Game Boy that STILL works TO THIS VERY DAY after being in a tank fire in the first Gulf War.

So please, insult all the games you want, but the hardware is good. Something Sony and Microsoft can learn from.

LBD_Nytetrayn
06-09-2007, 03:27 PM
So you're blaming the PlayStation for a consumer shift in desires to 3D graphics? That's like blaming RCA for making black-and-white television passť.

I'll take a moment remind to you that the Ultra/N64 was in parallel development with the PlayStation, and Nintendo touted its 3D capabilities in the press every chance it had. Remember the FFVI 3D demo?

Difference being, SCEA actually tried to actively prevent 2-D games from being released here, to which the likes of Capcom and Konami did not take too kindly. I've even heard talk that they had to threaten withholding Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid if they couldn't release Mega Man 8 or Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.

Ultimately there's no point in fixating on people like this. Their pettiness seems fairly self-evident to anyone who doesn't share their perspective. The comic book comparison is, as always, dead on.

And in any case, Nintendo (and inevitably everyone else who rushes in to cash in on this blue ocean discovery) will listen the money rather than a relatively small number of whiny people on message boards. As always, really.

I don't blame them. The companies, that is.

And really, I don't feel like we're getting any fewer games since this approach took hold; if anything, it feels like we're getting more, and with more variety. If I thought it were more likely that we would be getting more Brain Age clones than new 2-D platformers like New SMB, Mega Man ZX, or Castlevania, well, I'd be upset. But the state of things now, that doesn't feel like any real concern.

If anything, it seems like they're making a relatively cheap product, and using the profits from that to help fund their bigger-budget titles, as well as maybe more smaller budget titles to again help generate more profits and funding for bigger titles.

Dammit, I knew I should have looked at this thread before burning all of my Nintendo gear for not having games with grey landscapes! Damn you Cliffy B's brother!

Brown is the next generation.

Not to go all Nintendo fanboy, but hey, it sounds to me about developers and designers whining that they actually have to be creative with these new control schemes instead of just, you know, cloning the same game over and over.

They'll be pulled kicking and screaming into the revolution, erm, Wii.

Not like there aren't two other more powerful consoles to which they can peddle their wares...

Every time someone says that, Baby Jesus cries.

When Baby Jesus cries, the terrorists win.

Viva Pinata is mature! You can make worms have sex.

Dammit, Parish.

Now I'm wondering if there are Viva Pinata dogs.

And if those dogs have worms.

And if those worms are, in fact, gummy worms.

Now I'll never look at Viva Pinata the same way again. Not that I looked at it much before. Or that I've looked at it the same since that extended commercial clip...

Funny how holding opinions at odds with the prevailing groupthink gets one labelled a troll.

Oh well. Better a troll than a sheep.

Differing opinions are ok. It's how they're presented that makes all the difference.

You? You tend to instigate. Not only do your opinions differ, which is fine, but you tend to season your comments with an air of superiority, of condescension towards others who don't follow your way of thinking. That's where the "troll" factor comes in.

You, you're the guy who's more likely to go to a show of some sort that you know you'd absolutely hate, and mock it out loud, ruining the experience of others. That's trolling.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

Jeanie
06-09-2007, 03:35 PM
When Baby Jesus cries, the terrorists win.

Actually, it's when Baby Jesus cries, God kills a Kitten. And when God kills a kitten, THEN the terrorists win. Because they HATE cute kittens. That's the real reason why they're so evil.

Trent Dole
06-09-2007, 04:29 PM
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l207/fgsfdsfargeg/comicbookguy-worst-thread-ever.jpg

sraymonds
06-09-2007, 07:32 PM
The curse laid by a one-legged gypsy because of Yamauchi's no good, pig-stealing great-great-great grandfather.

...Anyone else read "Holes?"

Dammit, who do I have to carry up a mountain to break this curse?

Maggie
06-09-2007, 08:20 PM
Dammit, who do I have to carry up a mountain to break this curse?

I would've thought you'd have given up on it after that last time. The hill only became a mountain AFTER you carried the Englishman down.

Deadguy2322
06-10-2007, 05:22 AM
Enough of this debate over what constitutes hardcore gaming.

I believe we can all agree on what constitutes softcore gaming, and that is the Dead Or Alive series.

nadia
06-10-2007, 06:21 AM
I love Dead or Alive for the fact it mismatches opening cinemas and Aerosmith music.

Deadguy2322
06-10-2007, 07:32 AM
See I had respect for ya until you accused Nintendo of making shitty hardware. My 8-bit NES STILL works (it was a Power Pad one), my SNES still works, my Game Boy (back when color meant color of the case) still works. And there's the Game Boy that STILL works TO THIS VERY DAY after being in a tank fire in the first Gulf War.

So please, insult all the games you want, but the hardware is good. Something Sony and Microsoft can learn from.


Construction-wise, yes, their hardware is good.

Design-wise, every system they have made after the original Famicom has cut corners, sometimes in crippling ways.

Ever heard the sound on a real Famicom, then played the same cartridge on an NES? Big difference in quality, and the NES is NOT the winner.

Ever play a shmup on the SNES? All that slowdown is courtesy of the blazing 3.77MHz CPU.

Ever wonder Why N64 games either sound good or look good, but never both? UMA FTW.

Ever tried to play an original Game Boy Advance without an arclight overhead?

This one applies to SEGA too, for the Dreamcast. Why make a system that has a DVD-capable laser in it, but not let the machine play DVDs?


All of these are penny-pinching decisions leading to reduced hardware capabilities. It's cool to build something well enough to last. It's also cool to design it to be the best it can.

Peach
06-10-2007, 11:29 AM
The culinary allegory should die in this thread. The types of gamers "gourmet" would apply to are uppity enough without bringing the French into it.

Honestly, though, I'd love to see the "casual"/"hardcore" distinction develop in cuisine: whereas as "casual" diners would dabble primarily in easily digestible dishes and finger foods, "hardcore" connoisseurs would clock in at over 200 chews/minute, arrange their custom-made dinnerware set for maximum dessert fork efficiency, and teabag the appetizer when they finish. Restaurants would, of course, have to start carrying menus in 7331.

Deadguy2322
06-10-2007, 11:31 AM
...and teabag the appetizer when they finish.

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to teabag the cook? Or your waiter?

Stephen
06-10-2007, 07:08 PM
I think we need a moratorium on the word 'hardcore' for at least the next 5 years.

Eusis
06-10-2007, 07:17 PM
Let's go with Die Hard.

dangerhelvetica
06-10-2007, 07:34 PM
Is "enthusiast" too model railroad/stamp collecting?

thomp538
06-11-2007, 01:35 PM
Maybe just "core" gamers

Peach
06-11-2007, 05:44 PM
Maybe just "core" gamers

But wouldn't that make everyone else "fringe" gamers? Seems like the opposite is true - if people could grok the complete flip of root-words.

thomp538
06-11-2007, 05:52 PM
But wouldn't that make everyone else "fringe" gamers? Seems like the opposite is true - if people could grok the complete flip of root-words.
"Lovers o the FPS" then?

alexb
06-11-2007, 06:06 PM
How about real and fake?

Peach
06-11-2007, 06:07 PM
"Lovers o the FPS" then?

Don't forget MMOs and strategy games.

What we need is a caste system. The designation of 'Alpha Double-Plus' will be assigned to Korean Starcraft players, 'Beta' to semi-professional fraternity Halo players and so on and so forth till we arrive 'Epsilon Semi-Morons' - your grandmother playing Wii Tennis between reruns of Matlock.

alexb
06-11-2007, 06:09 PM
This ends with all of us taking part in a big circle jerk while Parish goes off to hang himself, doesn't it?

edit: But that's every thread these days, isn't it?

chocogaz
06-11-2007, 08:33 PM
I don't even know what we're talking about him here anymore.

thomp538
06-12-2007, 09:33 AM
This ends with all of us taking part in a big circle jerk while Parish goes off to hang himself, doesn't it?

edit: But that's every thread these days, isn't it?
I cut myself, to see if I still bleed.

ShakeWell
06-12-2007, 10:13 AM
Alright, I'm a little late to the party here, but... Why does everyone even care what Cliffy B.'s BROTHER has to say? What has he ever done? He's the brother of a game designer. Do we care what Martin Scorsese's wife has to say about the film industry? My guess is no. I saw what Brother B. said last week and just kind of shrugged it off. My only thought was "I wish I was related to someone who's marginally famous so I could run my mouth and sound like a knob in the (niche) press."

I worked with a guy who claimed that Nintendo was "ruining my hobby (by making it more popular)." I just shrugged and told him if he was missing out on the Wii for such a stupid reason, he deserved to not play all the good games that're coming out for it.

djSyndrome
06-12-2007, 10:16 AM
Do we care what Martin Scorsese's wife has to say about the film industry?

Depends on which one.

VsRobot
06-12-2007, 05:37 PM
I pretty much don't care what anyone has to say about the game industry. At the end of the day, all that really matters is the numbers. Publishers don't release games based on which threads are popular at Neogaf, but based on what they think is going to generate revenue for them. Hardcore gamers just want the same thing over and over (a million iterations of Doom/ Counterstrike/ Final Fantasy/ etc.) and I for one welcome more diversity in gaming. That there exists a model where a game like Pac-man: CE or Settlers of Catan or Geometry Wars can become successful is incredibly pleasing to me. Not every game needs to be a 100 hour epic RPG with fully rendered CG cutscenes and Hollywood voice talent, but those games aren't going anywhere.