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View Full Version : Week 6 Alt: The Adventures of Lolo


Parish
09-10-2007, 10:08 PM
This one is for Tomm, basically, since he screams in anger whenever Halo is mentioned. And I know he loves the Lolo.

The Adventure of Lolo
HAL | Nintendo Entertainment System | Some year or another. 1990, maybe?

Simply one of the greatest puzzle games ever. I need to play this and see if my mind is better tuned to the ass-kicking later levels than it used to be. Those things will make you cry.

(By the way, I'll leave the Mario topic open a little longer. It's still generating some good discussion.)

Eusis
09-10-2007, 10:21 PM
This is why I stopped playing Lolo! Win/win for me, and Halo/Lolo are probably good to switch between.

Parish
09-10-2007, 10:30 PM
Wow, I didn't even notice the Halo/Lolo thing. How... euphonic.

Stephen
09-10-2007, 11:00 PM
I love the Adventures of Lolo (in fact, I'm working on an article about it for this one site right now...)

Anway, Lolo was the ultimate weekend rental for me when I was a kid. The video store in my town sucked ass: One day rentals, crap selection, they only bought one or two new games a month and they always made the worst possible selection. I remember when they bought Bugs Bunny's Birthday Blowout instead of Mega Man III... I still can't believe my 9 year old head didn't explode.

The store was closed on Sundays so if you rented on Saturday you got to keep the game for two whole days! Every Saturday I'd go in and, when there was nothing I wanted, Lolo was one of my go-to games (others include the underrated Mappy Land and Mega Man II). Near the end, I was only finishing a stage or two per weekend.

I actually just beat it for the first time last December. It was one of the most satisfying gaming experiences in my life. I beat the second one soon after, but lost interest in the third one half-way through. Lolo overload, probably.

The world needs Lolo DS, like, right now.

Sanagi
09-10-2007, 11:02 PM
Halolo? I smell crossover.

Anyways, I actually started playing Lolo a bit not too long ago. I got up to the first level where you have to ride an egg in water and got stuck there for a while...

Tomm Guycot
09-10-2007, 11:21 PM
I actually beat this game three weeks ago or whatever when it was released on VC.

My first Lolo was number 2, on a rental, and I still remember sitting in my friend Curtis's room and playing it with him, his brother, and their two neighbors. Three of these people were the 8-bit equivalents to "Halo brah's" so it was always odd to me when I'd rent a brainy game (Shadowgate had the same effect) and we'd all sit down and play together--they were entranced.

I rented Lolo 1 a few weeks (months?) later. I remember drawing Lolo puzzles on my napkin at dinner one night, and trying to get my parent's friends into it. (These friends later worked through OoT w/ their grandson, so... I'll take some small credit for that)

Anyway, as I played this on VC, I found myself thinking "hey I think this is the level I'd get stuck on..." right up until the final set, so... I'm not exactly sure WHERE I used to get stuck, but I know this was the very first time I'd ever beaten it.

Looking forward to Lolo 2's eventual release. Wonder how well I'll do on that one...

PROTIP: If you're stuck, but you know one step of the process, see if that won't serve two purposes (like for example, blocking enemies).

Despite what the manual will tell you, there is NO POINT in Lolo where you need to block a monster's regeneration by placing an emerald block on his spawner. So don't waste your time.

Sanagi
09-10-2007, 11:35 PM
Despite what the manual will tell you, there is NO POINT in Lolo where you need to block a monster's regeneration by placing an emerald block on his spawner. So don't waste your time.
Huh. Yeah, I read that somewhere, too, and never knew what that was about.

Ben1842
09-11-2007, 12:33 AM
I guess I'm gonna have to be the hater.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x60/Ben1842/AdventuresofLoloU_001.png

I really want to like Lolo but I can't. Maybe I never get far enough to really love it, but I always get to about here
I don't like the trial and error of it. Every level you have no idea what the enimies will do. Most times they get to kill me at least once just to find out what they do.

Maybe I'm easily frustrated. So tell me what is it that makes this game awesome.

Mr. Sensible
09-11-2007, 01:03 AM
I believe a fair streak of masochism is required to fully reap the fruits of this game. It's all about getting stuck, then waiting for that precious "aha" moment that makes you feel really, really smart.

I sense you may dislike puzzle games in general.

Ben1842
09-11-2007, 01:17 AM
No that's the weird part, I love puzzle games.

I like:

Picross
Planet Puzzle League
Tetris
Dr. Mario
Pieces (snes puzzle game)
Puyo pop (kirbys avalance, Robonicks Mean Bean Machine)
Puzzle Fighter

etc....

I just don't get this one...

Octopus Prime
09-11-2007, 05:38 AM
My love of Lolo is fierce and deadly. I haven't touched in a week or so, but I'm nearly done the game (I'm somewhere in the 8th floor, I think).

The fact that, at best, Lolo just gets a cameo appearance in the Kirby games makes me sad on the insides.

Balrog
09-11-2007, 06:16 AM
I've played the first 30 seconds of this game about 10 times and never got into it....until last night. This game is pretty awesome! I love how it doesn't hold your hand like a lot of modern games. It kinda reminds me of the puzzles in LOZ where you have to make the room symmetrical or figure something out.

poetfox
09-11-2007, 06:19 AM
No that's the weird part, I love puzzle games.

I like:

Picross
Planet Puzzle League
Tetris
Dr. Mario
Pieces (snes puzzle game)
Puyo pop (kirbys avalance, Robonicks Mean Bean Machine)
Puzzle Fighter

etc....

I just don't get this one...

See, most of those you listed are like... puzzler like Tetris Puzzler, which is more about making combinations quickly than solving puzzles really (though don't get me wrong, I completely love Puzzle League, Tetris, etc). Picross sort of punishes you if you make a mistake? But not really. You can just undo anything that doesn't work. There's no sort of... pressure of dying if you screw up like there might be in Lolo. It's perhaps that little bit more tense that keeps it from being a completely no-stress experience?

That's just a guess... I really need to play Lolo again. It's been so long... back when I first rented it and tried it, it wasn't the kind of game I played, but now I think it fits me and my gaming habits a whole lot better.

wumpwoast
09-11-2007, 06:43 AM
I still haven't finished Pro-A and Pro-D from Lolo 2. My god those levels are tough.

The world needs more Lolo though. The game design would make for great co-op play as long as the level designers were willing to work overtime to make good levels for two players. Probably the easy way out is to have two "floors" that have holes or warp points between them, so the players can push blocks and eggs between themselves. This would seem well-suited to the two-screen Nintendo DS.

Justin

Brickroad
09-11-2007, 08:13 AM
A few years ago I actually mapped out every floor in Lolo using ASCII characters for a walkthrough. Part of the beauty of the game is how frustratingly complex it can get with just a few simple rules.

Lolo moves in half-steps. Remember this, kids. It's important to solving some of the puzzles.

I've been wanting to buy Lolo 2 and 3 for ages, but every time I price the carts they're always way too expensive. Here's hoping for swift releases on VC!

Parish
09-11-2007, 08:37 AM
I like:

[Not puzzle games]
Falling blocks are not puzzles. Those are spatial management games that test your ability to align colors and shapes; puzzle games feature deliberately-designed situations that test your powers of reasoning, deduction and lateral thinking. I believe that's where your confusion is coming from.

Tomm Guycot
09-11-2007, 10:25 AM
I guess I'm gonna have to be the hater.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x60/Ben1842/AdventuresofLoloU_001.png

I really want to like Lolo but I can't. Maybe I never get far enough to really love it, but I always get to about here
I don't like the trial and error of it. Every level you have no idea what the enimies will do. Most times they get to kill me at least once just to find out what they do.

Maybe I'm easily frustrated. So tell me what is it that makes this game awesome.

Not being a biased jerk - but I don't know what you're talking about. The enemies in Lolo are predictable to a fault. It's how all the puzzles work "I know this will kill me if I do _____".

Those skulls in the picture you posted? You block two of them with emerald blocks before you grab the final heart (bottom right) and you block the one near the grass by the snake in an egg (skulls can't cross the grass).

Ghost from Spelunker
09-11-2007, 12:01 PM
I bought Lolo a few years ago, and I beat it in about two days because:
1. I was addicted to it
2. I thought it was going to be longer. I don't want to spoil how long it is yet.

I'd like to get Lolo 2 and Lolo 3, but whenever I look on eBay they are ALWAYS bundled with Lolo 1. Lolo carts are very social.


Has anybody dodged a Don Medusa sword?

Octopus Prime
09-11-2007, 02:00 PM
I bought Lolo a few years ago, and I beat it in about two days because:
1. I was addicted to it
2. I thought it was going to be longer. I don't want to spoil how long it is yet.

I'd like to get Lolo 2 and Lolo 3, but whenever I look on eBay they are ALWAYS bundled with Lolo 1. Lolo carts are very social.


Has anybody dodged a Don Medusa sword?

You can't dodge Don's sword. He's a mobile version of Medusa, which actually makes him a bit easier to deal with.

Ben1842
09-11-2007, 02:48 PM
Not being a biased jerk - but I don't know what you're talking about. The enemies in Lolo are predictable to a fault. It's how all the puzzles work "I know this will kill me if I do _____".

Those skulls in the picture you posted? You block two of them with emerald blocks before you grab the final heart (bottom right) and you block the one near the grass by the snake in an egg (skulls can't cross the grass).

So what you're saying is the first time you played it you knew that some guys shoot swords at you? and some just roll around?
it never tells you any of this.

Ben1842
09-11-2007, 02:52 PM
Falling blocks are not puzzles. Those are spatial management games that test your ability to align colors and shapes; puzzle games feature deliberately-designed situations that test your powers of reasoning, deduction and lateral thinking. I believe that's where your confusion is coming from.

Come on I said Pieces lol
It's a puzzle game in the most literal sense of the word, you put together jigsaw puzzles.

I also really like fire and ice which is a similar game but from the side perspective.

Also while you may be right about them not being puzzles. I assumed we where talking about the agreed upon term of puzzle game. (which includes the games I listed)

Now I'm interested though, what games would you call a puzzle game?

Mr. Sensible
09-11-2007, 03:02 PM
Admittedly, some parts of the game seem to be simple trial and error. At least until you know which enemies do what, and when.

Zen
09-11-2007, 03:41 PM
So what you're saying is the first time you played it you knew that some guys shoot swords at you? and some just roll around?
it never tells you any of this.

No, you have to observe. It is a game of premises and inference, with a bit of timing and the occasional difficult execution thrown in for good measure. Plus, what game ever DOES tell you any of that?

Mr. Sensible
09-11-2007, 03:43 PM
Plus, what game ever DOES tell you any of that?

Hee hee. If I said "D&D" will you find me and kill me?

Parish
09-11-2007, 04:39 PM
No, you have to observe. It is a game of premises and inference, with a bit of timing and the occasional difficult execution thrown in for good measure. Plus, what game ever DOES tell you any of that?
Well, every single game of the current generation. The modern design philosophy is, why leave anything to chance? Users are stupid. Cram tutorials down everyone's throat! Now! Schnell! Schnell!!

Examples of puzzle games:

Lolo
Toki Tori
Donkey Kong 94 (it pretends to be an action game, but it is intrinsically puzzle-licious)
Lots others that I'm too senile to remember at the moment

spineshark
09-11-2007, 04:54 PM
Sokoban and Lemmings.

"DUH!"

So I guess I should play this, I really do like the genre.

Tomm Guycot
09-11-2007, 05:16 PM
So what you're saying is the first time you played it you knew that some guys shoot swords at you? and some just roll around?
it never tells you any of this.

Does Zelda second quest tell you Stalfos throw their swords? Does SMB tell you that Bowser starts throwing hammers on Worlds 6-8? Does Metroid tell you there's going to be an escape sequence? Does Castlevania tell you to use the Holy Water to freeze Dracula's second form?

Welcome to video games, dude. It's not like Lolo gives you unlimited continues--oh wait!

Eusis
09-11-2007, 05:21 PM
It is kinda sloppy there admittedly, what with the finite lives but letting you resume right from where you died with the continue feature. Not that I can complain, it'd be tedious to redo puzzles already solved. I guess the lives are more like 'you died this number of times, here's a password in case you want to take a break' as a result.

I'm up to the 6th floor so far and it's definitely getting hard for me. I think I didn't so one 'properly' since I never used the second bridge I was given.

Ben1842
09-11-2007, 05:40 PM
Examples of puzzle games:

Donkey Kong 94 (it pretends to be an action game, but it is intrinsically puzzle-licious)


Mr. Parish I get the feeling your not watching my show. lol

you said maybe I don't like puzzle games, Then listed this weeks game for my show (which I love)

now I'm hurt.

Not really.


To your point about games being dumbed down. While a lot are, I think there is a happy medium between explaining everything for 5 min. and not telling you at all.

For some reason I'm drawing a blank on a good example.

Bioshock was pretty tutorial free. I didn't have to go to trial and error to make it through anyway.

spineshark
09-11-2007, 06:00 PM
Trial and Error is the best way period. I died about half a dozen times in the room where you meet Yorda in Ico since I didn't know what to do or what button to press to do it. And I liked it. It wasn't the last time I had to learn a new control either.

Stuff like Mission 2 (to say nothing of Mission 3...) in DMC3 takes it a little too far though. There's a difference between gradually having the player discover his or her options, and mercilessly slaughtering them until their skill level improves very dramatically.

Octopus Prime
09-11-2007, 06:45 PM
Deadly Rooms of Death is a puzzle game in the vein of Lolo. And it's free to boot!

I finally got past the level I was stuck on, so now I'm slightly further into Floor 8. A room with three Medusa's and not very many E.Framers.

And I swear, by Thors Mighty Beard, that I will clear this game without the aid of asking anyone for help.

This, I VOW.

Zarathustra
09-11-2007, 07:15 PM
...but i do have a memory of it, when an elementary school classmate and friend of mine received a copy from his "girlfriend" as a birthday gift. I was jealous and mystified to learn that there were parents who considered the sanctity of 4th grade romance deserving of such expensive (to my 9-year old sensibilities) celebration.

Brickroad
09-12-2007, 10:20 AM
Lolo DOES tell you what the enemies do, it just does so without dialogue or a tutorial section. You just have to pay attention. You'll typically only get killed by a bad guy once before learning how to deal with him. The game doesn't throw any surprises at you, and all the room solutions are completely logical. Nothing in the game is left to chance.

I think that's one of the reasons why I like it so much. If you get killed (or suicide) it's because your solution was wrong, not because of cheap game design. With each death you refine your solution until it's right.

I mean, heck, as long as you don't press any buttons you can sit and stare at the room for as long as you want, forming possible solutions to try in your head. The only information you don't have going into a new room is how many shots you'll acquire and what direction Don Medusa moves in.

Zen
09-12-2007, 12:53 PM
It's a difficult thing, tutorials. The bottom line is that everyone's going to notice different things, and no matter how splendidly you organize your tutorials to be seamless and natural there's gonna be someone who would have figured it out on his/her own or still isn't going to.

I always thought the Beginner's Halls in Final Fantasy games were reasonably well delivered. Except for FF7's, which suffered from being overly complicated, poorly translated, and too slow. But you get free materia!

The bottom line is that games work when they don't punish you for experimenting. Which Lolo doesn't do.

Mazian
09-12-2007, 04:30 PM
In the ancient days, games came with "manuals (http://www.adventuresoflolo.com/instruction_manual.shtml)". On paper.

Eusis
09-12-2007, 09:29 PM
Beat Lolo. That was goofily anticlimatic!

Brickroad
09-13-2007, 09:19 AM
Beat Lolo. That was goofily anticlimatic!

Best last boss ever!

MCBanjoMike
09-13-2007, 09:42 AM
As someone who's never played the game before, I'm not finding it too difficult to figure out how things work. Sure, you die once every time you see a new enemy type, but after that you've got a pretty good idea of what they do. I'm actually really enjoying the way the game shows you some small new thing every stage to gently ease you into it. Like the first time you push an egg into the water, or the way there are movable blocks that are just sort of in your way in one of the early stages. I find it quite intuitive, at least so far.

TheSL
09-13-2007, 10:39 AM
Did you guys realize that there was a new Lolo game released as recently as 2000? It was only released in Japan and on PC under the name "Revival! Eggerland".

Octopus Prime
09-13-2007, 10:56 AM
And the fact that we didn't get it over here is poisoning me.

On a related note:
Finally reached Floor 9, now I'm in a room with a ludicrous amount of E.Frames.

I'm getting so close to the end that I can taste the sweet, sweet victory on the tip of my tongue!

TheSL
09-13-2007, 11:04 AM
And the fact that we didn't get it over here is poisoning me.

You can download it through this site (http://www.freewebs.com/eggerland/), but you have to sort through moon language to get it to install. Rendered graphics aren't as nice as the sprites, though:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c74/TheSL/revivaleggerland.jpg

poetfox
09-13-2007, 11:56 AM
I'm glad that the instruction booket linked up there says that some heart things have "hidden infinite power."

I finally got around to playing it, and yeah, it's pretty completely awesome... I must not have put much thought into it as a child, as I remember just being frustrated and hating it... oh well.

I wish I could remember the exact room to tell you, but the moment I realized I could trick one of those little rolly polly things into rolling into a little corner and then push a block in front of it instead of constantly trying to dodge it... I felt pointlessly impressed with myself.

Octopus Prime
09-13-2007, 12:39 PM
You can download it through this site (http://www.freewebs.com/eggerland/), but you have to sort through moon language to get it to install. Rendered graphics aren't as nice as the sprites, though:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c74/TheSL/revivaleggerland.jpg

Wow... umm... I feel less poisoned now.

Merus
09-13-2007, 09:56 PM
Deadly Rooms of Death is a puzzle game in the vein of Lolo. And it's free to boot!

God, I'm glad I didn't have to say it. (Except that DROD is much more anal about making sure the game acts predictably.)

DROD usually doesn't do tutorials of its elements either, preferring to give players increasingly complicated rooms where discovering the implications of each new element are part of the puzzle. It's an excellent way of doing things, an approach shared by some of the best games ever made. (Super Metroid never drops you into a tutorial, but nevertheless its level design has you use your weapons in increasingly complicated situations.)

Zen
09-14-2007, 01:22 AM
(Super Metroid never drops you into a tutorial, but nevertheless its level design has you use your weapons in increasingly complicated situations.)

And it makes sure you feel the need for what you're missing beforehand, too.

OH NO HERE I GO.

Octopus Prime
09-16-2007, 07:14 PM
Finally beat this jive turkey.

So many of the later puzzles are solved by taking half-steps it's not funny.

The ending was epic though. You cannot deny that.

fumner
09-17-2007, 08:21 PM
Just played and beat The Adventures of Lolo for the first time today. There were certainly a few instances where I was frustrated, but like someone else mentioned, that "aha" moment was never far behind. And the following feeling of satisfaction was intense.

Oh yeah... best boss fight ever!

Eusis
09-17-2007, 08:25 PM
I have a question since this seems to be kept open for now: Are there any puzzles that REALLY need the half step to solve, like pushing blocks half way? It's how I got past some but I'm curious if that was essentially cheating and that there's a 'correct' solution.

Brickroad
09-17-2007, 08:27 PM
I have a question since this seems to be kept open for now: Are there any puzzles that REALLY need the half step to solve, like pushing blocks half way? It's how I got past some but I'm curious if that was essentially cheating and that there's a 'correct' solution.

Yes, there are two I can think of just offhand.

fumner
09-17-2007, 09:10 PM
I have a question since this seems to be kept open for now: Are there any puzzles that REALLY need the half step to solve, like pushing blocks half way? It's how I got past some but I'm curious if that was essentially cheating and that there's a 'correct' solution.

For the last level on floor 9 the half step was absolutely essential and used multiple times.

However, there were multiple solutions to several of the puzzles. There was one level that gave you two of the bridge pieces but I completed it using only one. At first I thought that I was just really smart, but upon closer inspection (http://www.adventuresoflolo.com/walkthroughs/room24.shtml), that was probably the easiest solution.

Red Hedgehog
09-18-2007, 08:07 PM
So I finally got around to playing this and I'm finding it pretty awesome. The puzzles are very good. I managed to make it up to floor 9, before I got to a level that I just couldn't seem to wrap my head around so I've taken a break from it to declare how good this game is. It's just a really good puzzle game.

I'll also say that it helps that I read the instruction booklet first. Understanding about what the magic shots do to enemies and how eggs work on water and how getting power ups in generally work was key. Knowing the enemy behaviors was also nice.

As for half steps, I've used them twice to complete levels. There may have been other solutions, but I didn't come up with any full step ones and they just seemed like the easiest way.

MCBanjoMike
09-19-2007, 01:06 PM
I've just made it up to the ninth floor! Hope I can figure out the last couple of levels, but there are some fairly devious ones up there.

MCBanjoMike
09-20-2007, 07:59 AM
Finished! Fun game, definitely gives you a nice sense of satisfaction as you advance. I'm glad that I managed to refrain from consulting a FAQ, although there were a few moments when I came pretty close. Especially the puzzle where you have to blast one of the snakes off the board and then move past where it was and let it reform behind you. That took a while to figure out.

Oh yeah... best boss fight ever!

No kidding! I also loved the giant closeup of Lola and Lala, it was almost scary.

Sprite
09-20-2007, 03:45 PM
When I told my roommate that I had beaten Adventures of Lolo, he asked if I had chained a savant to the wall to help me. Some people just can't do well with these games.

Supposedly there's an online Eggerland community in Japan that regularly makes levels using the level editor in the new games. Too bad the graphics look weird, but whatever.

Eusis
09-20-2007, 03:50 PM
I seriously thought that was some fangame when I looked at the graphics. The fact that really IS from Hal, and after all the stuff they put out for Nintendo is just mind blowing.

Red Hedgehog
09-20-2007, 05:21 PM
Man, the... third? level of floor 10 is totally stumping me. The one with all the Gols lined up along the sides and the medusa in the corner. I'll have to stop and come back to it.

Red Hedgehog
09-20-2007, 05:36 PM
Grr... stupid half steps.

Anyway, beat the game. Awesome ending!

Shadax
09-20-2007, 07:29 PM
I started playing this afternoon (in my spanish class that lasts 4 hours) and have pretty much blown through until level 4-4, which is currently destroying my soul.

Although I think that this is more because this is the first one giving me a hassle and making me think about my actions rather than it being truly difficult.