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Mogri
11-07-2011, 01:29 PM
Let's do some M:TG 3-Card Blind on this here forum. You can play even if you don't really know Magic that well! All you need to do is submit a three-card "deck" to me via PM. Your deck must consist of three different cards. (Please include a Gatherer/magiccards/similar link for each card that isn't a basic land.) Each player can only have one deck, but you can change your deck until the deadline.

Here's how it works:

Each player starts with all three cards in his hand.
Each player plays with his or her hand revealed.
Players draw cards but do not lose the game for being unable to draw a card.
Random effects end in the result most beneficial to the opponent of the owner of the card generating the effect.
All players play optimally, with complete knowledge of the game state.
For each win a player gets 3 points, for each draw 1 point and for each loss no points.

The complete results of the tournament are posted after the tournament has been calculated so all players are able to verify the results and may question results if they do not understand the result of a specific matchup. Then, the cards in the winning deck are added to the banlist (except for basic lands) and a new round begins.

Alpha Werewolf has graciously volunteered his services as co-mod. Thanks for your help!

Round 3 will run until 23:59 Thursday 24 November PST. Ready? Go!

Current Banlist:
[12] Arrogant Wurm
[8] Bayou
[6] Black Lotus
[6] Blacker Lotus
[8] Blackmail
[1] Chancellor of the Annex
[1] Chancellor of the Forge
[2] Dryad Arbor
[2] Force of Will
[10] Ghost Quarter
[4] Karakas
[4] Leyline of Singularity
[12] Lion's Eye Diamond
[3] Mishra's Factory
[10] Mishra's Workshop
[!] R&D's Secret Lair
[8] Rogue Elephant
[3] Sheldered Valley
[2] Slippery Bogle
[10] Steel Overseer
[1] Strip Mine
[4] Student of Warfare
[6] The Cheese Stands Alone
[3] The Tabernacle at Pendrall Vale
[12] Wasteland

Previous Winners:
#1: Seiryu
#2: ChainsawRepairman
#3: Red Hedgehog
#4: Red Hedgehog
#5: ChainsawRepairman
#6: Everyone!
#7: Mogri
#8: GyroNinja
#9: Jikkuryuu
#10: Red Hedgehog
#11: CaptBlasto, Red Hedgehog
#12: Red Hedgehog

Variant Rounds:
#5: Backbuild
#7: Channel Surfing
#9: I Brought a Spare

shivam
11-07-2011, 01:32 PM
can you give us a sample deck and play just so we can see what you mean?

Alpha Werewolf
11-07-2011, 01:51 PM
Mogri: I used to mod 5CB over on MTGSalvation for a while, I'll be glad to help with the modding (depending on the size of our audience, I may even be open to doing the modding all by myself. Once it reaches 10 people or so I start getting tired).

shivam: Here's an example deck I remember from reading about 3CB. It's probably outdated by now:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/un/233.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/5dn/9.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/ts/152.jpg

This deck simply aims to play Black Lotus, Leonin Squire getting the Lotus back, and then a 4-mana threat (I chose Empty the Warrens because it was part of a prolific 5CB deck when I modded it, it can be anything).

Of course, this deck is dead in the water to deck 2 when deck 2 plays first:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/isd/256.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/lw/145.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/ddf/73.jpg

Since this deck will just Thoughtseize away the Lotus.

The various XCB formats can be rather fascinating; I could never play them well, but I had fun watching.

poetfox
11-07-2011, 02:03 PM
What happens when you draw cards? I'm confused on that.
And I guess basically all decks are going to be using like one mana things? It seems like you'd immediately end up banning all viable creature lands and artifact mana producers after a round or two, and then you'd be stuck with decks like Plains, Isamaru, Hound of Konda, Holy Day. Which, I guess is a thing.

I'll think about it more. Actually, I just thought of a deck. Well, alright then.

Alpha Werewolf
11-07-2011, 02:06 PM
You don't lose the game for trying to draw from an empty library, so you just don't draw the card. If you had a card in your library, you'd draw it.

Also only the winning deck's cards get banned. Lotus could survive a few incarnations, and with all the storage lands and similar things you'll take a while to get to the basic lands.

Mogri
11-07-2011, 02:08 PM
Sure. Let's suppose I have three entrants:

Jimmy: Forest, Llanowar Elves (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Llanowar+Elves), Acridian (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Acridian)
Bobby: Mountain, Bloodfire Dwarf (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Bloodfire+Dwarf), Dwarven Scorcher (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Dwarven+Scorcher)
Joey: Plains, Alabaster Leech (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Alabaster+Leech), Pride Guardian (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Pride+Guardian)

Jimmy v Bobby: Jimmy can't get Acridian into play before Bobby is able to destroy it. Bobby still has a creature left over, who eventually kills Jimmy to death. Bobby wins.

Jimmy v Joey: Jimmy takes a couple of hits setting up Acridian, at which point it's a stalemate.

Bobby v Joey: Bobby's creatures are too puny to take down Joey's. If Bobby tries to attack, Pride Guardian restores more health than Bobby can deal.

In this example, Joey would be the winner.

(edit) I got hecka ninja'd here

poetfox
11-07-2011, 02:13 PM
Also only the winning deck's cards get banned.
This is what I missed in the rules! Okay, that makes a lot more sense, RE: banning. And yeah, the more I thought about it, the more the drawing thing made sense. So, like, if I had a card that put a card from my opponent's hand on top of their library, they'd still draw it next turn.

Anyway, I sent in a deck, for better or worse, since I thought of one. Heh, we'll see how this goes.

shivam
11-07-2011, 02:25 PM
so like, lotus, laboratory maniac (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=230788&type=card), next time my turn comes around i win?

Alpha Werewolf
11-07-2011, 02:28 PM
Yup!

...Assuming, of course, the opponent can't disrupt your combo by countering, killing, or making you discard; A deck like this, even if it works only on the play, will tie with you.

Mogri
11-07-2011, 02:35 PM
And if that deck does win, you'll need a new strategy next round. Iterative 3CB is as much about the metagame as anything.

Alpha Werewolf
11-07-2011, 02:52 PM
Also I sent in a deck.

(The norm in the XCB formats is that the moderator may participate, assuming s/he decides on a deck before seeing any other decks)

poetfox
11-07-2011, 03:17 PM
I am already changing my deck because I thought of one with more PIZAZZ. And Pizazz is important.

This thing really has me thinking. Shame on you to introducing me to a fun game that involves my currently mostly dormant love of Magic.

CaptBlasto
11-07-2011, 03:20 PM
This seems pretty interesting. Are there any cards or Sets that are banned from the start?

Mogri
11-07-2011, 03:24 PM
The only cards I will expressly forbid are the single-print cards (1996 World Champion or whatever). I could ban the Un-sets, but where would be the fun in that?

Mogri
11-07-2011, 03:55 PM
Hey poet, you kinda mighta misread this.

Random effects end in the result most beneficial to the opponent of the owner of the card generating the effect

In other words, your deck screws itself over.

(edit) oh you changed it

poetfox
11-07-2011, 04:00 PM
I know, but it's the best! The best loser! Maybe!

I caught it and sent another one before you even posted that, but thank you. Ever since I built my Impulsive Maneuvers (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=31787)deck years ago, I just really wanted that card to be good! But it is still not to be. Oh well. (Things do get REAL CRAZY when you manage to get two copies of Impulsive Maneuvers and a Krark's Thumb (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=48923) on the board though, let me tell you!)

This has me more excited than I expected, and I keep thinking of decks, but now I will be good and cook dinner and not keep spamming your PMs with decks, Mogri, promise.

CaptBlasto
11-07-2011, 04:10 PM
Sure. Let's suppose I have three entrants:

Jimmy: Forest, Llanowar Elves (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Llanowar+Elves), Acridian (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Acridian)
Bobby: Mountain, Bloodfire Dwarf (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Bloodfire+Dwarf), Dwarven Scorcher (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Dwarven+Scorcher)
Joey: Plains, Alabaster Leech (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Alabaster+Leech), Pride Guardian (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Pride+Guardian)

Jimmy v Joey: Jimmy takes a couple of hits setting up Acridian, but Acridian hits hard enough to overwhelm Joey. Jimmy wins.


So I am slightly confused at how Jimmy wins this matchup. Wouldn't the Pride Guardian still block the Acridian every turn to gain 3 Life? So the matchup would end in either a stalemate or a win for Joey?

Mogri
11-07-2011, 04:26 PM
Ah, you're right. Somehow I thought the Acridian had 3 power. (I was sort of making up that example as I went along.) If you pretend it does, then my example holds. But in Real Life Land, Joey ties with Jimmy and therefore wins the round.

Destil
11-07-2011, 04:40 PM
Deck sent.

Arithon32
11-08-2011, 10:41 AM
This sounds interesting. Deck sent.

Red Hedgehog
11-08-2011, 02:27 PM
Deck submitted. I get to use one of my favorite (broken) cards again!

Mogri
11-10-2011, 09:13 AM
I have the following decks for round 1:
Alpha Werewolf
poetfox
CaptBlasto
Destil
Arithon32
Red Hedgehog
Eddie

I also have one from shivam, who later retracted. If you wish to de-retract, let me know.

If your name is not listed above, you are not registered for round 1! You have the rest of the day to submit a deck for a chance at fame and glory.

ChainsawRepairman
11-10-2011, 10:36 AM
I'm interested. Sending a deck in soon.
It is legit to use 2 or 3 of the same card, right?

Mogri
11-10-2011, 11:42 AM
Your deck must consist of three different cards.

If it's a basic land, you're fine. There's no shortage of cards in the Magic codex.

Destil
11-10-2011, 12:59 PM
Three rules questions:

I assume players generally choose to draw if caught in a creature stalemate?
Do my cards count as being in my opening hand?
Can I choose to mulligan? If so does the random effects clause kick in so my opponent stacks my deck?

Alpha Werewolf
11-10-2011, 01:22 PM
Yes (assume all players play optimally).
Yes.
Good question; My ruling would be no, but I don't think it ever came up. regardless, the order would be the worst possible order for you.

(Incidentally Mogri, your random rule is mildly flawed; I could somehow give an opponent a card, and if that card has a random ability it would benefit my opponent when activated)

Mogri
11-10-2011, 01:54 PM
I don't see that as a flaw. There shouldn't be any way to use luck to your advantage -- not even your opponent's luck.

Alpha Werewolf
11-10-2011, 03:15 PM
Okay, I'll put it another way.

I play Mind Control on my opponent's Capricious Efreet (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Capricious%20Efreet). Since my opponent owns the Efreet, any random effect will now work against my opponent, and I will always hit whatever target it is best for me to hit with it.

GyroNinja
11-10-2011, 03:22 PM
But why would the opponent ever play that card for you to steal in the first place, since it would always work against them?

CaptBlasto
11-10-2011, 03:27 PM
Yea, since you can see each other's hands, wouldn't you just not play that card, because you know the opponent will mind control it?

Alpha Werewolf
11-10-2011, 03:30 PM
That's irrelevant; The point is that the rule as worded does not work as intended (making randomness harm the person who uses it as much as possible, in order to minimize the luck factor).

I already said it's nothing major, but it's still a problem.

Destil
11-10-2011, 03:40 PM
Yeah, I don't get that issue, either. The randomness hurts the person who puts the card in their deck. It's a constraint on deck construction, not really play, and it's always bad to have random cards in your deck with this rule.

Destil
11-10-2011, 03:52 PM
Also, I would point out that the rule isn't intended to prevent randomness from helping you. It's there to take the randomness out of the game entirely. Donating something random to your opponent and letting it blow up in their face is a viable strategy and that's fine, this rule seems more to prevent random cards from being swingy than to make them purely bad.

EDIT: are Falling Star, Chaos Orb and Chaos Confetti all considered 'random'?

Alpha Werewolf
11-10-2011, 03:56 PM
Not true. Some random abilities (such as the shuffle from the legendary Eldrazi, to give an example from 5CB) can be used to great effect.

And I'm saying that donating something random to your opponent will make the card work against YOU, not your opponent, because the rule biases random effects against the owner. I'd bias them against the controller, which fixes the whole issue.

Destil
11-10-2011, 04:01 PM
Ah, okay. I see where you're coming from now and what I was missing. I was reading it as a rule intended to address Mana Crypt, not frenetic efreet...

Mogri
11-10-2011, 04:08 PM
I'd bias them against the controller, which fixes the whole issue.

Not really! You could then force a creature on your opponent to make bad things happen to him. It's got problems both ways, but the current wording works because it's disincentive to using those cards in your deck at all.

Destil: Yes, those would be considered random.

Mogri
11-11-2011, 11:34 AM
Round 1. Fight!

1. Alpha Werewolf
Black Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Black+Lotus)
Show and Tell (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Show+and+Tell)
Chancellor of the Annex (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Chancellor+of+the+Annex)

2. Arithon32
Island
Slippery Bogle (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Slippery+Bogle)
Apathy (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Apathy)

3. CaptBlasto
Plains
Swords to Plowshares (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Swords+to+Plowshares)
Student of Warfare (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Student+of+Warfare)

4. ChainsawRepairman
Black Lotus
Blacker Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Blacker+Lotus)
Platinum Angel (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Platinum+Angel)

5. Destil
Simian Spirit Guide (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Simian+Spirit+Guide)
Elvish Spirit Guide (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Elvish+Spirit+Guide)
Ashcoat Bear (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Ashcoat+Bear)

6. Eddie
Mishra's Workshop (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!mishra's+workshop)
Phyrexian War Beast (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Phyrexian+War+Beast)
Cathodion (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Cathodion)

7. Mr. J
Black Lotus
Show and Tell
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!emrakul%2C+the+aeons+torn)

8. poetfox
Black Lotus
Blacker Lotus
The Cheese Stands Alone (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!The+Cheese+Stands+Alone)

9. Red Hedgehog
Black Lotus
Balance (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Balance)
The Rack (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!The+Rack)

10. Seiryu
Chancellor of the Annex
Chancellor of the Forge (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Chancellor+of+the+Forge)
Strip Mine (url=http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Strip+Mine)

Results:

X|1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0
1|X 2 6 2 6 6 2 2 6 0|32
2|2 X 2 2 2 0 0 0 0 0|8
3|0 2 X 6 6 6 0 0 0 0|20
4|2 2 0 X 6 6 0 3 0 0|19
5|0 2 0 0 X 0 0 0 0 0|2
6|0 6 0 0 6 X 0 0 0 0|12
7|2 0 6 6 6 6 X 0 6 0|32
8|2 6 6 3 6 6 6 X 3 0|38
9|0 6 6 6 6 6 0 3 X 0|33
0|6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 X|54

Match notes:

Alpha vs Arithon: Alpha can't cast Show and Tell, because Arithon will enchant Chancellor with Apathy.
Alpha vs Chainsaw: Alpha can't cast Show and Tell, because Chainsaw will put Platinum Angel into play.
Alpha vs Mr. J: 1 can't cast Show and Tell, because J will put Emrakul into play.
Alpha vs poetfox: Alpha can't cast Show and Tell, because poetfox will put The Cheese Stands Alone into play and proceed to play out both Loti - they'll be countered, but that's just what poetfox wants!
Arithon vs anything with a single creature: Arithon's opponent doesn't attack, Arithon can't attack. Draw.
Arithon vs Mr. J: Emrakul can't protect itself from Apathy, because only once Apathy is on he battlefield (after Show and Tell) does Apathy's controller choose the target (at which point it's no longer a spell). However, it's irrelevant because Emrakul forces the sacrifice of Apathy once he attacks.
Eddie vs Red Hedgehog: Note that Balance only hits creatures, lands and cards in hand - not artifacts. Hedgehog casts The Rack and Balance ASAP, Eddie loses everything no matter how he plays.
Mr. J vs Red Hedgehog: While Emrakul is subject to Balance, The Rack doesn't win before the reshuffle is applied and Emrakul comes out again.

Final scores:
1. Seiryu (10): 54
2. poetfox (8): 38
3. Red Hedgehog (9): 33
4. Alpha Werewolf (1): 32
=. Mr. J (7): 32
6. CaptBlasto (3): 20
7. ChainsawRepairman (4): 19
8. Eddie (6): 18
9. Arithon32 (2): 8
10. Destil (5): 2

Seiryu wins! Flawless victory! Chancellors of Annex and Forge are banned along with Strip Mine. I doubt anyone is sad to see those cards go. But will The Cheese Stands Alone sweep next round or can you find a way to beat it? Round 2 will happen in a week! Get your decks in by next Friday!

Alpha's notes:
I knew, going into the round, that Chancellor of the Annex would be a dominating force. However, I chose to play it as my threat as well - which proved to be a big miss, as most people could use my own Show and Tell to win regardless, forcing quite a few draws, while Seiryu simply played a different, uncounterable threat - and proceeded to sweep the round. Impressive, and congratulations!

MVP: Chancellor of the Annex
Mana is for Chumps Award: Seiryu
Grin and Bear It Award: Destil
Dangerously Cheesy Award: poetfox
My Monster is Bigger Award: Mr. J


Big thanks to Alpha for modding this round. Turns out I suck at reading the fine print.

Destil
11-11-2011, 11:59 AM
d`oh!

ChainsawRepairman
11-11-2011, 01:25 PM
Time to gripe about the matchups!

How do i lose to poet's cheese on the play? Won't my angel hit the board first and secure my win? Granted, i lose on the draw. >_>

Grats on Sei winning. I shouldn't have told him about strip mine.

Alpha Werewolf
11-11-2011, 01:26 PM
My mistake. poet vs. Chainsaw should be 3-3.

Mogri
11-11-2011, 01:32 PM
Time to gripe about the matchups!

How do i lose to poet's cheese on the play? Won't my angel hit the board first and secure my win? Granted, i lose on the draw. >_>

Grats on Sei winning. I shouldn't have told him about strip mine.

There's a decent chance he'd have won without it! His original submission had two C-Forges instead of the Strip Mine.

Your griping has bumped you up to 6th. Congrats.

CaptBlasto
11-11-2011, 02:16 PM
Wow, there are a lot of magic cards that I didn't know existed! Those Chancellors are pretty powerful in this setup.

A question: In the match-up between Eddie and I, if I play first, won't the Student of Warfare make it to level 7 before I die and therefore end up beating him? I am assuming that each of us will attack on our turns if it means we wont lose a creature. My math has it that I will be at 2 health when I have the damage to finish it.

Alpha Werewolf
11-11-2011, 02:29 PM
My apologies, I marked the 6 on the wrong side of the chart.

Mogri
11-11-2011, 02:33 PM
Wow, there are a lot of magic cards that I didn't know existed! Those Chancellors are pretty powerful in this setup.

A question: In the match-up between Eddie and I, if I play first, won't the Student of Warfare make it to level 7 before I die and therefore end up beating him? I am assuming that each of us will attack on our turns if it means we wont lose a creature. My math has it that I will be at 2 health when I have the damage to finish it.
And now your griping has bumped you up to 6th.

Anyone else wanna be 6th?

Lucas
11-11-2011, 03:28 PM
Ooh, ooh, I'll take 6th!

Seiryu
11-11-2011, 07:52 PM
I'll take 1st and 6th, if that's ok.

poetfox
11-12-2011, 05:08 PM
So time to submit again? Another deck incoming.

Mogri
11-16-2011, 02:17 PM
I have the following decks for round 2:
Alpha Werewolf
ChainsawRepairman
Destil
Mr. J
poetfox
Seiryu

If your name is not listed above, you are not registered for round 2! You have until end of day Thursday to submit a deck for a chance at Internet immortality.

Arithon32
11-17-2011, 06:10 AM
Deck sent. Hopefully I fare a little better this round

Mogri
11-18-2011, 09:45 AM
Round 2 go!

Note: The results for this round are incorrect because I used the wrong deck for one player. Read the posts that follow for more information.


1. Alpha Werewolf
Blacker Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Blacker+Lotus)
Glowrider (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Glowrider)
Leyline of Anticipation (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Leyline+of+Anticipation)

2. Arithon32
Black Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Black+Lotus)
Laboratory Maniac (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Laboratory+Maniac)
Gitaxian Probe (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Gitaxian+Probe)

3. CaptBlasto
Island
Basking Rootwalla (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Basking+Rootwalla)
Foil (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Foil)

4. ChainsawRepairman
Blacker Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Blacker+Lotus)
Mystic Snake (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Mystic+Snake)
Leyline of Anticipation (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Leyline+of+Anticipation)

5. Destil
Blacker Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Blacker+Lotus)
Bloodhusk Ritualist (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Bloodhusk+Ritualist)
Leyline of Anticipation (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Leyline+of+Anticipation)

6. Eddie
Force of Will (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Force+of+Will)
Memnite (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Memnite)
Arbitrary blue card (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Denizen+of+the+Deep)

7. Mr. J
Blacker Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Blacker+Lotus)
Show and Tell (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Show+and+Tell)
Angel of Despair (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Angel+of+Despair)

8. poetfox
Black Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Black+Lotus)
Seething Song (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Seething+Song)
Chandra Nalaar (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Chandra+Nalaar)

9. Red Hedgehog
Black Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Black+Lotus)
Balance (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Balance)
The Rack (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!The+Rack)

0. Seiryu
Black Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Black+Lotus)
Mesmeric Fiend (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Bloodhusk+Ritualist)
Leyline of Anticipation (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Leyline+of+Anticipation)


Results:

X|1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0
1|X 6 2 6 2 0 6 6 6 2|36
2|0 X 2 6 6 0 2 6 3 0|25
3|2 2 X 2 2 2 2 2 2 2|18
4|0 0 2 X 0 0 0 0 0 0|2
5|2 0 2 0 X 0 6 6 0 2|18
6|6 6 2 6 6 X 6 6 6 6|50
7|0 2 2 6 0 0 X 2 0 0|12
8|0 0 2 6 0 0 2 X 0 0|10
9|0 3 2 6 6 0 6 6 X 0|29
0|2 6 2 6 2 0 6 6 6 X|36


Final scores:
1. Eddie (6): 50
2. Alpha Werewolf (1): 36
=. Seiryu (10): 36
4. Red Hedgehog (9): 29
5. Arithon32 (2): 25
6. Destil (5): 18
=. CaptBlasto (3): 18
8. Mr. J (7): 12
9. poetfox (8): 10
10. ChainsawRepairman (4): 2

Eddie wins! Flawless-ish victory! That means Force of Will, Memnite, and Denizen of the Deep are on the banlist, so the metagame... has not actually changed at all. Thanks, Eddie. You're a pal.

Alpha's notes:
I'm surprised nobody played Cheese this round. I'm even more surprised by the people who played things that lose to Cheese - why not just play Cheese instead?

Anyway, as I expected, Leyline of Anticipation dominated the round - Wait, what? Eddie almost swept the round?

Eddie did very well to play FoW and a free threat. The threat, just like last round's winner, was going to be played anyway - and the counter was always open. It beat all of the Leyline decks and in fact, almost all of the decks period. My one gripe is that because of you, not only is Leyline still around, so are both Loti. Very well done, and congratulations!

And now that I'm on the topic - Blasto, what the hell. One of the central rules of XCB is 'don't play decks that can't beat a goldfish'. Your opponent does nothing, and you draw the match - every single game. But I guess you did prevent another full round sweep by the winner, so... Yay for you?

One more thing. Chainsaw, read your cards please.


See You Next Week: Leyline of Anticipation
All My Cards Are Glowriders Award: Alpha Werewolf
Impasse Award: CaptBlasto
Mana is Still for Chumps Award: Eddie
Deck So Good, I Played It Twice Award: Red Hedgehog


Round 3 is next week! Again, thanks to Alpha for the mod assistance.

You may now bicker about your matchups.

Alpha Werewolf
11-18-2011, 10:25 AM
Watch, as five different people gripe their way into sixth place!

Red Hedgehog
11-18-2011, 12:36 PM
I was going to gripe that I can still get my threat out on the play against Alpha and Seiryu and then realized, "Right, they can still cast their cards during my upkeep."

Also, had I any more time to think about a deck, I totally would have played Eddie's. I was thinking about it while drifting to bed last night.

CaptBlasto
11-18-2011, 03:06 PM
And now that I'm on the topic - Blasto, what the hell. One of the central rules of XCB is 'don't play decks that can't beat a goldfish'. Your opponent does nothing, and you draw the match - every single game. But I guess you did prevent another full round sweep by the winner, so... Yay for you?

Sorry, I had a brain lapse there and forgot the hands are played revealed. Essentially I had the same idea as Eddie, I just didn't find the right cards in my search to put it together.

No need to gripe about matchups this time though, I'm already in 6th place! :P

Red Hedgehog
11-18-2011, 03:14 PM
Blasto could have actually cast his Rootwalla if he'd used a Tropical Island instead of an Island. But, well, he still could have only hoped for ties against this field.

ChainsawRepairman
11-18-2011, 07:54 PM
I've got a gripe. I submitted a different deck like 5 days ago because i figured out the one i was using didn't work. Can we use that one please? It should still be in your inbox.
I know it'll upset everything, but the first one I sent is honestly embarrassing.

Seiryu
11-18-2011, 08:23 PM
Alpha, stop copying my decks punk :P

Eddie
11-18-2011, 08:30 PM
I've got a gripe. I submitted a different deck like 5 days ago because i figured out the one i was using didn't work. Can we use that one please? It should still be in your inbox.
I know it'll upset everything, but the first one I sent is honestly embarrassing.

Just re-submit it for the next round.

- Eddie

Seiryu
11-18-2011, 08:35 PM
Just re-submit it for the next round.

- Eddie

Eddie, he submitted a 2nd deck to replace the deck shown above, because he realized that the deck wouldn't work. He changed the deck within the time allowed, it was Mogri/Alpha's responsibility to note the update.

Mogri
11-18-2011, 10:34 PM
Oh, shoot. You're totally right.

The deck was Dryad Arbor, Slippery Bogle, Force of Will, which I think would tie you for first. I'm really not sure how to resolve it at this point -- I mean, clearly, you deserve first place for round 2 (jointly with Eddie), but I think one of those cards has already been submitted for a R3 deck.

Chainsaw, how would you like to see this resolved? Ball's in your court, since the failure is 100% mine.

(edit) thinking about it, I think Eddie still beats you, but that would give you 2nd

ChainsawRepairman
11-18-2011, 11:39 PM
Thanks a lot for double-checking! I was deathly afraid there was some mix-up with the PM system and I'd have to try to convince you that i totally had this deck that would clean out round 2 but you didn't see my message, etc.

Anyway, I would really appreciate if you would re-figure the round 2 tally. That would mean letting people re-submit decks since the banlist (and the metagame) can change.
Also, I don't see any rules regarding ties for first place... but I think my deck wins round 2 (!)
I do just as well as Eddie since his deck works the same, but I beat Blasto's deck since i can get my manland in under his foil for the kill.

Alpha Werewolf
11-19-2011, 01:21 AM
Chainsaw's fixed deck beats everything but Eddie, winning the round at 56 points to Eddie's 52.

Red Hedgehog
11-19-2011, 06:54 AM
The deck was Dryad Arbor, Slippery Bogle, Force of Will

That was exactly the deck I thought of the other night! Curse real life for interfering!

Mogri
11-20-2011, 05:54 PM
I've corrected the banlist and noted that Chainsaw won round 2 in the first post. Sorry again for everyone who was inconvenienced by this! Go ahead and send in your Denizen of the Deep decks now.

Eddie
11-20-2011, 08:19 PM
Can't we honorarily ban Denizen of the Deep? That was the entire point behind the deck. So people, a year from now, would look back and say "how the hell did that get banned?"

- Eddie

Mogri
11-22-2011, 09:49 AM
Believe me, no one's more broken up about that than I am.

Hey! Are you planning to enter round 3? Then make sure you don't get distracted by Turkey Day! I already have decks from these players:

Alpha
Arithon
Chainsaw
Destil
me :) :)
poetfox
Red Hedgehog
Seiryu

That means that Blasto, Eddie, and Mr. J are our regulars who still haven't gotten around to it.

If you're not any of those players, you can still play, too! If you don't know how, just ask.

Alpha Werewolf
11-22-2011, 10:06 AM
Man, am I always the first to send my deck in?

Mogri
11-22-2011, 10:25 AM
You weren't this time. The list is alpha-sorted.

...betically, I mean. Alphabetically.

ChainsawRepairman
11-22-2011, 11:14 AM
Here's a question: How many rounds are we running this whole shindig?

Until everyone gets sick of it? Until Kird Ape gets on the banlist? ...10 rounds?

Mogri
11-22-2011, 11:35 AM
Forever.

Last forum I saw playing 3CB, they were on round 50-something. The game gets better as it matures.

Alpha Werewolf
11-22-2011, 11:55 AM
At some point I think it would be wise to start a more stable variant, with a static banlist and special formats twice a month or so.

Mogri
11-25-2011, 11:05 AM
Round 3 is blasting off again!


1. Alpha Werewolf
Disrupting Shoal (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Disrupting+Shoal)
Evermind (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Evermind)
Memnite (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Memnite)

2. Arithon32
Black Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Black+Lotus)
Blacker Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Blacker+Lotus)
Barren Glory (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Barren+Glory)

3. ChainsawRepairman
Black Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Black+Lotus)
Blacker Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Blacker+Lotus)
The Cheese Stands Alone (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!The+Cheese+Stands+Alone)

4. Destil
Disrupting Shoal (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Disrupting+Shoal)
Evermind (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Evermind)
Memnite (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Memnite)

5. GyroNinja
Simian Spirit Guide (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Simian+Spirit+Guide)
Artifact Blast (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Artifact+Blast)
Memnite (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Memnite)

6. Mogri
Blacker Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Blacker+Lotus)
Bloodline Keeper (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Bloodline+Keeper)
Memnite (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Memnite)

7. poetfox
Blacker Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Black+Lotus)
Abyssal Persecutor (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Abyssal+Persecutor)
Leyline of Anticipation (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Leyline+of+Anticipation)

8. Red Hedgehog
Mishra's Factory (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Mishra's+Factory)
The Tabernacle at Pendrall Vale (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!The+Tabernacle+at+Pendrall+Vale)
Sheltered Valley (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Sheltered+Valley)

9. Seiryu
Black Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Black+Lotus)
Liliana's Specter (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Liliana's+Specter)
Leyline of Anticipation (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Leyline+of+Anticipation)


Results:

X|1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
1|X 6 6 2 2 2 6 0 6|30
2|0 X 0 0 0 6 6 6 0|18
3|0 6 X 0 0 6 6 6 0|24
4|2 6 6 X 2 2 6 0 6|30
5|2 6 6 2 X 2 6 0 6|30
6|2 0 0 2 2 X 6 0 6|18
7|0 0 0 0 0 0 X 0 2|2
8|6 0 0 6 6 6 6 X 2|32
9|0 6 6 0 0 0 2 2 X|16

Final scores:
1. Red Hedgehog (8): 32
2. Alpha Werewolf (1): 30
=. Destil (4): 30
=. GyroNinja (5): 30
5. ChainsawRepairman (3): 24
6. Arithon32 (2): 18
=. Mogri (6): 18
8. Seiryu (9): 16
9. poetfox (7): 2

Red Hedgehog wins! After two weeks of Balance/Rack tomfoolery, he realized that no-mana decks are the way to go. Black Lotus, will you ever see your time to shine? Find out next week when MTG:3CB continues!

Alpha's comment: Please double check poet's deck; I find it highly unlikely she submitted a deck that cannot win, ever.

poet's comment: I regret nothing. NOTHING.

Alpha's notes:
As I expected, this week was completely crushed by the Shoal deck and OH GODDAMNIT REDGEHOG.

Red Hedgehog played a deck I was expecting to see after Cheese was banned, for the simple reason that it immediately folds to Cheese. In fact, he only managed to win this round because poetfox submitted a deck that literally cannot win (any of the appropriate Leyline decks, apart for Glowrider, at least ties the game here). Congratulations, though!

Destil and I thought of the exact same deck, and the main reason I'm pissed at poetfox is because we are now once again in the exact same position as last week - nothing relevant to the current metagame has been banned. I was hoping to ban Memnite, which would cripple many, many decks.

I'd like to suggest a new rule for the playerbase to think over: "A deck that cannot win against an opponent that does nothing at all is illegal".

PS: Arithon, why choose the inferior version of Cheese? I don't get it.

Mogri's notes:
Alpha is probably just bitter.


MVP: Memnite
A Cheese By Any Other Name Award: Arithon32
Originality! Award: ChainsawRepairman
Hey, That Deck Looks Familiar Award: Alpha and Destil
Spite Award: poetfox
Land, Ho Award: Red Hedgehog

Thanks again to Alpha for modding this round.

GyroNinja
11-25-2011, 11:15 AM
I think you made an addition mistake, I should have 30 points and tie for second with Alpha and Destil (We each went 4-1-3). Our decks basically do the same thing; counter lotus starting at turn 0 then try to play memnite. It's just none of us expected land.dek.

Alpha Werewolf
11-25-2011, 11:16 AM
Whoops, my mistake.

Red Hedgehog
11-25-2011, 11:26 AM
Hey, Balance/Rack is a great deck - just not when turn 0 disruption is out there.

Also, I'm pretty happy I won the metagame. What with the Leyline of Anticipation decks last week, I counted on there not being many combo decks this week. Looks like I was right.

CaptBlasto
11-25-2011, 03:48 PM
Good job Red Hedgehog! I opted out this round mostly because of time, and also because I couldn't think of any good combos to play. I'd come up with something and then realize it would require my opponent to not know my cards. Hopefully I'll have some time next week to do some research.

Do you all just know these cards exist, or do you just think "Man I wish there was a card that did (effect) and go search for it?

Destil
11-25-2011, 03:53 PM
It's (almost) sad how many of these cards I just know, even having played on and off since Beta.

It's also funny that Alpha and I had the exact same deck, as I made some changes on a lark (and due to the change of the previous round's result). My original deck was way different!

Dryad Arbor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/details.aspx?name=Dryad%20Arbor)
Ancestral Vision (http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=189244)
Disrupting Shoal (http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=74128)

Only one card in common...

ChainsawRepairman
11-25-2011, 06:15 PM
It's also a stronger deck. Looks like every zero-cost threat is gonna be out of the game in the next 2 rounds at this rate.

Also, I don't see a reason to declare uselessly bad decks illegal. You should definitely message someone who does submit a deck that can't win though.

GyroNinja
11-26-2011, 08:45 AM
It's also funny that Alpha and I had the exact same deck, as I made some changes on a lark (and due to the change of the previous round's result). My original deck was way different!

What I actually find funny is that you two and me essentially came up with different solutions to the same problem. I'm actually a bit curious as to which deck is better; this round they were identical, and I can't readily think of a relevant 0-CMC card that isn't an artifact (which you two could counter and I couldn't), OR a >0 CMC artifact that isn't being cast off of Lotus (which I could counter and you two couldn't).

I think they might be, for all practical purposes, the exact same deck.

(And yes, both decks would be way better with Dryad Arbor instead of Memnite; being uncounterable is a pretty big deal).

Mogri
11-29-2011, 02:52 PM
Mittvoch Einchecken

Want to join round four? Of course you do! But unless your name is on this list, you still need to submit a deck:

Arithon32
CaptBlasto
ChainsawRepairman-man-man-man
Destil
Mogri
Red Hedgehog
Seiryu

You have until the end of Thursday to throw something together and PM it my way. Good luck!!

Alpha Werewolf
11-29-2011, 03:01 PM
I have to admit that I'm a little undermotivated for this round. I haven't found anything new to play just yet, so it seems like I'm just choosing from three known archetypes (and their derived rogue archetypes, I count two of these) and hoping I played the meta right. I'll send something in, but this is the main reason I don't like this form of XCB tournaments that much; I prefer either alternating between normal and special rounds with a static banlist, or banning by vote (eventually, hopefully, arriving at a static banlist that prevents craziness from going on, but still allows interesting things).

Red Hedgehog
11-29-2011, 03:26 PM
I have to admit that I'm a little undermotivated for this round. I haven't found anything new to play just yet, so it seems like I'm just choosing from three known archetypes (and their derived rogue archetypes, I count two of these) and hoping I played the meta right. I'll send something in, but this is the main reason I don't like this form of XCB tournaments that much; I prefer either alternating between normal and special rounds with a static banlist, or banning by vote (eventually, hopefully, arriving at a static banlist that prevents craziness from going on, but still allows interesting things).

I sort of agree. My deck winning did very little to change the landscape. Memnite or Leyline of Anticipation being banned would have changed things up a lot more and allowed more decks to be viable. Still, there are about four archetypes one can play now and I find it fun to try to guess what is best against the field.

Mogri
11-29-2011, 03:37 PM
I sort of agree. My deck winning did very little to change the landscape. Memnite or Leyline of Anticipation being banned would have changed things up a lot more and allowed more decks to be viable. Still, there are about four archetypes one can play now and I find it fun to try to guess what is best against the field.

I have to say, your deck was unexpected. I don't know if it'll win, but I like it.


I'm all for doing a special theme round every other week or something similar. Any suggestions? We could try CMC<=1 next week, maybe.

Mogri
12-01-2011, 02:10 PM
- Last call for round four
- If you have any suggestions for round five, speak up

Red Hedgehog
12-01-2011, 02:39 PM
If we do theme weeks, I like having conditions like:

All spells cost an additional {1}

OR

Mana Flare in effect

OR

All permanents have hexproof

Something like that.

Alpha Werewolf
12-01-2011, 02:49 PM
Other fun formats could be:

-Backbuild
You submit a deck, but your opponents play with the deck you submitted and you play with theirs. So basically you want the worst deck possible. Naturally it has to be able to beat a test deck (say, 2x Plains and Dryad Arbor)

-Wordy
Your deck's card's first letters have to spell a three letter word.

-Lich
Players don't lose the game for having 0 or less life.

I would also recommend running the same special format for two weeks in a row.

Destil
12-01-2011, 03:01 PM
Millertime
In addition to your hand of X cards, you have a library of 100-X nowheres.
Players only loose the game when they draw a card with an empty library.
Players only win the game when their opponent looses.
Nowhere: Land.
You may play with any number of this card in your deck.

ChainsawRepairman
12-02-2011, 07:37 PM
how bout them matchups for round 4? Pretty crazy, right? Wowza.

Mr. J
12-02-2011, 07:41 PM
Dream halls (http://magiccards.info/sh/en/28.html) is in effect.
All cards must have a converted mana cost of 6 or greater.

I'd like to see that one happen :P

Mogri
12-02-2011, 07:41 PM
We are late this week. This is totally my fault and not Alpha's: I was skipping work to interview at Internet Search Company. While we're waiting on the results, though, let's introduce the theme for week 5, brought to you by random.org.

Once upon a time, two knights were complaining to each other about their horses. Each knight boasted that his horse was the slowest in all the lands, but alas, they could come to no resolution in their dispute. Seeking a mediator, they went to the great and wise Oracle and presented their dilemma. The Oracle heard them and spoke only two words. Upon hearing these words, the knights raced back to the horses and rode off into the sunset. By day's end, their problem had been resolved. What were those two words?

The answer is, "Forget about horses. Go play three-card blind." (The knights couldn't count.) So the knights raced back home, constructed some 3CB decks, then traded them to see who could build the worst deck.

In honor of those good knights, we'll be playing Backbuild for round five. The idea is simple: build the least effective deck possible. However, you must still be able to win. If your deck can't beat an opponent that plays no cards, you are disqualified. If your deck loses every matchup, you are also disqualified.

As in vanilla 3CB, you and your opponent will be playing perfectly, but you will receive your opponent's score. The goal is to receive the lowest possible nonzero score.

Round 4 results coming soon! (Probably!)

ChainsawRepairman
12-02-2011, 09:13 PM
I kinda figured one of you had some Real Life™ come up this week, so good luck with that interview.

Also, I think you mixed up the rules for round 5's gimmick. Don't we want to maximize the score we receive? The one we get from our opponents? Because we're trying to let them win?

Mogri
12-02-2011, 09:51 PM
You're double-confusing the goal here. Alpha's original proposal had you switch decks. That's not in this ruleset (despite the implications of the backstory). Since I thought that was possibly confusing, I "streamlined" it so that you're playing a normal match but getting your opponent's score.

You can think of this as trading decks - it's the same outcome either way. Whatever makes this easier to process.

Mr. J
12-02-2011, 11:24 PM
There are only 2 changes
1- the player with the lowest, non-zero score wins the round
2- the deck you submit must be able to win if your opponent never plays anything.

at least that's what it sounds like.
you will receive your opponent's score.
If we receive our opponent's score and we want the lowest score possible then they just cancel each-other out and it's exactly like normal. It needs to be one or the other, not both.

Mogri
12-02-2011, 11:36 PM
Aaah.

Okay, let's pretend that you know what I mean temporarily. Say, for the next week or so.

(I'm tired.)

Alpha Werewolf
12-03-2011, 02:25 AM
Why is sweeping the round (making the best worst deck) punished? It's the whole point. As long as you can beat a test deck - even if it's an opponent who does nothing - there shouldn't be a problem.

Red Hedgehog
12-03-2011, 08:14 AM
Why is sweeping the round (making the best worst deck) punished? It's the whole point. As long as you can beat a test deck - even if it's an opponent who does nothing - there shouldn't be a problem.

What this guy said.

And man, it is really easy to make a deck to tie in this format. Outright losing is harder.

Mogri
12-03-2011, 09:33 AM
Round 4 is now!


1. Arithon32
Black Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Black+Lotus)
Blacker Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Blacker+Lotus)
Barren Glory (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Barren+Glory)

2. CaptBlasto
Plains
Abolish (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Abolish)
Memnite (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Memnite)

3. ChainsawRepairman
Karakas (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Karakas)
Mana Tithe (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Mana+Tithe)
Zealous Guardian (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Zealous+Guardian)

4. Destil
Plains
Quiet Purity (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Quiet+Purity)
Isamaru, Hound of Konda (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Isamaru,+Hound+of+Konda)

5. GyroNinja
Swamp
Thoughtseize (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Thoughtseize)
Diregraf Ghoul (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Diregraf+Ghoul)

6. Mr. J
Black Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Black+Lotus)
Nether Spirit (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Nether+Spirit)
Leyline of Singularity (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Leyline+of+Singularity)

7. Mogri
Forest
Thallid (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=184711)
R&D's Secret Lair (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!R%26D's+Secret+Lair)

8. Red Hedgehog
Karakas (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Karakas)
Student of Warfare (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Student+of+Warfare)
Leyline of Singularity (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Leyline+of+Singularity)

9. Seiryu
Dark Depths (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Dark+Depths)
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Urborg,+Tomb+of+Yawgmoth)
Vampire Hexmage (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Vampire+Hexmage)


Alpha's Pre-scoring Anger: Why is Arithon running Barren Glory? IT IS STRICTLY WORSE THAN CHEESE BECAUSE IT WINS ON THE UPKEEP RATHER THAN IMMEDIATELY
WHY DOES HE KEEP RUNNING IT

*ahem* We now resume regular scoring.

X|1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
1|X 0 3 0 3 4 6 6 6|28
2|6 X 1 0 0 0 0 0 0|7
3|3 4 X 3 0 6 3 3 6|28
4|6 6 3 X 1 0 0 0 0|16
5|3 6 6 4 X 3 3 1 6|32
6|1 6 0 6 3 X 6 1 0|23
7|0 6 3 6 3 0 X 6 0|24
8|0 6 3 6 0 4 4 X 6|29
9|0 6 0 6 0 6 6 0 X|24

Final scores:
1. GyroNinja (5): 32
2. Red Hedgehog (8): 29
3. Arithon32 (1): 28
=. ChainsawRepairman (3): 28
5. Mogri (7): 24
=. Seiryu (9): 24
7. Mr. J (6): 23
8. Destil (4): 16
9. CaptBlasto (2): 7

Alpha's Post-scoring Rage:
Had Arithon run Cheese, he would've won 9 extra points and finally gotten Cheese, as well as both Loti, banned.

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

If at First You Don't Succeed Award: Arithon32
So Last Week Award: CaptBlasto
Should've Joined the Karakas Wagon Award: Destil

GyroNinja wins! Backbuild replaces our normal 3CB next week. Don't forget!

Arithon32
12-03-2011, 09:36 AM
Because I'm an idiot and didn't read that the Cheese won immediately :-(

Alpha Werewolf
12-03-2011, 10:12 AM
But I said the same thing last week >_>

Why don't people listen to meeeee :(

Mr. J
12-03-2011, 10:27 AM
My deck had leyline of anticipation not leyline of singularity. That should change my match-up with chainsaw repairman and gyroninja.

Alpha Werewolf
12-03-2011, 10:38 AM
Using the fixed deck:

X|1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
6|0 6 6 6 6 X 6 0 0|30

Changes from the grid are in bold.

I suspected this might be the case, but after poetfox's deck last week I decided to just score it as Mogri sent me. Interestingly, this robs you of two ties you had (one, by legend rule'ing a Black Lotus, of all things; The other, by legend rule'ing another Leyline of Singularity) in exchange for a match win and an extra game win.

I do believe this gives Arithon the win, though, so I thank you!

Incidentally: The worst thing about Backbuild is not being able to tell everyone else about the hilariously bad deck you cooked up :(

Red Hedgehog
12-03-2011, 11:04 AM
Griping time:

Me vs. GyroNinja

I go first:
Leyline of Singularity in play.
Play Karakas.
Play Student of Warfare.

GyroNinja's turn:
Thoughtseize useless at this point.
Plays Swamp.
Plays Diregraf Ghoul.

Repeat until I win:

I go:
Attack with Student of Warfare

He goes:
If he attacks I bounce Diregraf Ghoul with Karakas. If he doesn't attack, I bound ghoul at end of turn.
He can then replay Diregraf Ghoul, but it still comes into play tapped.

He goes first:
Leyline of Singularity in play.
Plays Swamp.
Plays Thoughtseize - can only take Student of Warfare.

My turn:
I play Karakas.

His turn:
Plays Diregraf Ghoul.
During his end step, I bounce it.

Repeat ad infinitum, so we end in a draw.

---

Me vs. Mogri
Maybe I'm missing something extra that R&D's secret lair is accomplishing. I could see it nullifying Karakas' ability (since Karakas is now looking for a card with type 'Legend' rather than a Legendary Creature). But even so:

Mogri's Turn: Forest, Thallid
RH's Turn: Karakas, Student of Warfare
M: 1 Spore Counter, attack (RH@19)
RH: Level up SoW, attack(M@19)
M: 2 Spore Counters, attack(RH@18)
RH: Level up SoW, attack (M@16)
M: 3 Spore Counters, Make Saproling, attack (RH@17)
RH: Level up SoW, attack (M@13)
M: 1 Spore Counter, attack (RH@15)
RH: Level up SoW, attack (M@10)
M: 2 Spore Counters, attack (RH@13)
RH: Level up SoW, attack (M@7)
M: 3 Spore Counters, Make Saproling, attack (RH@11)
RH: Level up SoW, attack (M@4)
M: Attack with 2 (RH@9)
RH: Level up SoW, attack, Mogri chump blocks
M: Attack with 1 (RH@8)
RH: Attack, Mogri chump blocks
M: Nothing
RH: Attack, Mogri chump blocks
M: Nothing
RH: Attack, win

So I win whether I go first or second.

EDIT: And I now get a 6 instead of a 4 against Mr. J.

GyroNinja
12-03-2011, 11:10 AM
Oh that's really weird, he has the match scored correctly on my side, but not yours. That needs to be updated, yeah.

And the way the card is actually worded, removing spore counters is a part of the effect of Thallid's ability, not the cost. So with RandD he gets infinite saprolings.

(Edit: Actually, looking at it again, maybe not, it depends on how you interpret "Remove three spore counters to put a saproling token into play". No modern magic card would be worded that way so it's hard to say what that actually does, and since the Secret Lair is an un-set card, there's no official ruling.)

Mr. J
12-03-2011, 11:15 AM
the remove counters is after the colon so it's part of the effect, not the cost.

Alpha Werewolf
12-03-2011, 11:18 AM
Sometimes I accidentally place the scores in the wrong slot: The Gyroninja match is an easy 4-1, and Mogri is an easy 6-0.

I blame being tired!

EDIT: Also, while technically the thing about Thallid is true, Mogri didn't specify that he was using the old Thallid; The default is the newest version, which is worded properly. And regardless, the wording "remove...to" would be interpreted exactly as it is used normally (The closest parralel in Magic is cards that say "Do X. If you did...")

Mogri
12-03-2011, 11:44 AM
The link does show the picture of the old Thallid, though.

Destil
12-03-2011, 12:02 PM
Oh, hell, that first deck I submitted was about 10x better, huh Mogri?

Oh, well. Always next game (which is why I'm not saying what it is)...

ChainsawRepairman
12-03-2011, 12:23 PM
More gripes.

I think i go 6-0 vs Destil (sorry, Destil!) since i can hold my mana tithe and put his Isamaru into his hand with Karakas after he passes priority on his second main phase, preventing him from re-casting while my land is tapped.

(I actually thought of this when i made the deck.)

(I'm a nerd.)

CaptBlasto
12-03-2011, 02:27 PM
How do I not beat Mr. J? Wouldn't I just destroy his Black Lotus in response to him activating it?

Mr. J
12-03-2011, 02:39 PM
it's a mana ability, you can't respond.

CaptBlasto
12-03-2011, 02:46 PM
it's a mana ability, you can't respond.

Huh, didn't know that.

Sometimes I feel very much way in over my head playing this with you all, haha!

GyroNinja
12-03-2011, 04:07 PM
it's a mana ability, you can't respond.

Even if you could, destroying a permanent doesn't prevent the ability from going onto the stack.

Red Hedgehog
12-03-2011, 07:01 PM
So what are we saying on the whole un-errata'ed Thallid thing? I come down on the side that you actually need three spore counters to make a saproling. Playing R&D's secret lab lets you activate the ability as many times as you want, but otherwise you gotta follow what the rules used to say when worded "Do X to do Y".

Mr. J
12-03-2011, 07:06 PM
Even if you could, destroying a permanent doesn't prevent the ability from going onto the stack.

it also isn't a legal target regardless.

ChainsawRepairman
12-03-2011, 08:41 PM
The problem with thallid is there's not supposed to be any cause-and-effect stuff in abilities without a colon between them.

So if an ability reads

X : Do Y to do Z

then as far as the rules are concerned it just reads

X : Do Y and also do Z

So you have an official ruling fixing it that goes

X and Y : Do Z

Thus the secret lab forces you to use the broken second version giving you an infinite combo.

Mr. J
12-03-2011, 08:58 PM
no that's not quite right. There can be an intervening if clause which can stop the second half of the ability. So you could have an ability such as

cost: do X, if you do, do Y. The question is if Thallid has a "intervening if clause" under it's original wording.

Red Hedgehog
12-03-2011, 09:15 PM
Right. R&D's secret lair let's you ignore errata, but not the English language. Either "Do X to Do Y" has some meaning, or else it's gibberish in the context of current rules and doesn't actually have a way to do anything (much like how you can't play interrupts with R&D's Secret Lair out).

Mr. J
12-03-2011, 11:07 PM
That's the problem. 'do X to do Y" has no meaning under the current rules; the word to literally is not defined in this context. Based on old cards though it does imply a cost as that is how additional costs were worded, see alter of bone (http://magiccards.info/ia/en/359.html).

E- All that said, I am okay with interpreting it as make infinite tokens but I vote we ban RnD's secret lair because it just doesn't work within the rules. Most un-cards can be massaged into the rules but it presents too many problems with old cards.

EE- I am psyched for next week!

Red Hedgehog
12-04-2011, 07:36 AM
Alright, well then who wins the round?

I have my final score at 33 or 37 depending on if infinite saprolings works.

ChainsawRepairman
12-04-2011, 10:00 AM
Yeah, i second Mr J's motion to ban secret lair. It's pretty much specifically designed to cause rules problems.

Mogri
12-04-2011, 01:09 PM
I'm fine with that but still really unclear on how the scores ended up for round four.

Regarding the nonzero score rule: it made sense to me at the time, but I can't for the life of me remember the rationale. So forget about it.

That said, I have a very high degree of certainty that I have received the winning deck for round five already. GOOD LUCK.

Alpha Werewolf
12-04-2011, 01:36 PM
That said, I have a very high degree of certainty that I have received the winning deck for round five already.

Interesting...

Jikkuryuu
12-04-2011, 03:48 PM
Aw man, Mana Burn is gone? Back to the drawing board.

Red Hedgehog
12-06-2011, 08:24 PM
I'm fine with that but still really unclear on how the scores ended up for round four.

By my calculations, if we assume infinite saprolings works, then I win the round (much to Alpha's chagrin). Someone else please check my results:
Red Hedgehog
Arithon32: L-L 0
CaptBlaso:W-W 6
ChainsawRepairmain W-L 3
Destil W-W 6
GyroNinja W-T 4
Mr. J: W-W 6
Mogri T-T 2
Seiryu: W-W 6
33

Mogri:
Vs Arithon32: L-L 0
Vs CaptBlasto: W-W 6
Vs ChainsawRepairmain: W-W 6
Vs Destil: W-W 6
Vs GyroNinja: W-L 3
Vs Mr. J 6
Vs Red Hedgehog T-T 2
Vs Seiryu W-L 3
32

Arithon32:
CaptBlasto: L-L 0
ChainsawRepairman: W-L 3
Destil L-L 0
GyroNinja W-L 3
Mr J W-W 6
Mogri W-W 6
Red Hedgehog W-W 6
Seiryu W-W 6
30

GyroNinja:
Arithon32 W-L 3
CaptBlasto W-W 6
ChainsawRepairman W-W 6
Destil W-T 4
Mr. J L-L 0
Mogri W-L 3
Red Hedgehog T-L 1
Seiryu W-W 6
29

Red Hedgehog
12-06-2011, 08:31 PM
Also, just to clarify, even though we're building the worst deck possible, we still assume we play to win? So a deck with Mountain, Mon's Goblin Raiders, Intervention Pack wouldn't willingly cast the intervention pack*, right?

*On a turn other than the one where it's about to put the opponent to 0 life.

Mogri
12-06-2011, 09:18 PM
That's correct. You will never commit suicide and you will always push for a win or at least a tie.

ChainsawRepairman
12-07-2011, 11:46 AM
Yeah, that's how i read it. Basically you make a terrible deck that still has a fighting chance. Then, you hand it to a perfect player and hope he loses.

This way, you can't just make a deck that can always auto-lose with 1 card. Also, i think it makes cards that are catastrophically worthless in this format (like Immortal Coil) unplayable by an intelligent player.

Alpha Werewolf
12-07-2011, 11:58 AM
This is why I like the 'you trade decks with the opponent' way of phrasing the format - this way, it's obvious that that's the only change.

Mogri
12-08-2011, 12:19 PM
Round 5: You still have 12 hours to submit a deck! But if you wanted to, you probably already did, because we have the biggest turnout so far this week:

Alpha
Arithon
CaptBlasto
ChainsawRepairman
Destil
Eddie
GyroNinja
Jikkuryuu
Mogri
Mr. J
poetfox
Red Hedgehog
Seiryu

Round 4: Alpha, can you check Red's math? I would really like to know who actually won round 4 so I can update the banlist.

Round 6: What would you like to see here? For reasons that will probably be apparent tomorrow, I recommend against repeating backbuild; either that enforcing a 100-turn limit. I'm fine with doing that, going back to regular 3CB, or doing another special round. What do you guys want?

Red Hedgehog
12-08-2011, 12:35 PM
Re: Round 6. I think we should alternate, every other round is standard 3cb with the backlist we have developed and the other ones are something special with their own rules (a la backbuild).

Alpha Werewolf
12-08-2011, 12:36 PM
I'd like to see another backbuild, but it doesn't have to be next time. Right now I'm thinking we alternate between normal rounds and special rounds, so next round will be normal.

I highly disagree with setting a turn limit on backbuild. The funnest part is figuring out how to win excruciatingly slowly!

I'll redo the scores for Round 4 and send them to you, Mogri.

Mogri
12-08-2011, 12:45 PM
The funnest part is figuring out how to win excruciatingly slowly!

That's just it -- as of next round, that is a solved problem. I am 100% sure that a certain someone's deck is the slowest possible deck for 3CB backbuild.

Destil
12-08-2011, 12:51 PM
Round 6: What would you like to see here? For reasons that will probably be apparent tomorrow, I recommend against repeating backbuild; either that enforcing a 100-turn limit. I'm fine with doing that, going back to regular 3CB, or doing another special round. What do you guys want?

The problem with this is that you'll see X submissions where the deck wins on exactly turn 100 that tie the round, and everyone else looses without much granularity...

Red Hedgehog
12-08-2011, 01:11 PM
I'm really curious now as all the decks I could come up with that took 100+ turns to goldfish lose to the deck I submitted which goldfishes much faster.

Destil
12-08-2011, 01:18 PM
I'm actually running options through my head to figure out if I can slow down my turn redacted win...

Mogri
12-08-2011, 01:19 PM
The problem with this is that you'll see X submissions where the deck wins on exactly turn 100 that tie the round, and everyone else looses without much granularity...

I would agree with you except that I've seen GyroNinja's deck.

schep
12-08-2011, 02:20 PM
I don't really know much about this game, but how about a blitz special round? If the game is not over after each player has taken one turn, the winner is the player who has more HP at that point. (Or maybe two turns, if there are too few clever ways to do damage the first turn.)

Eddie
12-08-2011, 03:35 PM
I think my deck can only win as one approaches turn 100. I'd be curious to what decks can still "beat" an opponent doing nothing, yet take so long that my "clock" outpaces them.

- Eddie

Mogri
12-08-2011, 04:55 PM
Eddie, you lack imagination. Imagination and an encyclopedic knowledge of the card base.

Hey guys! Two quick questions here:

- Ban R&D's Secret Lair? There was a little discussion about it. I'll be honest: I got my deck idea from the comments on the Gatherer entry for this card. I'm not attached to it.

- Round 7 ideas? Sounds like we'll be doing normals on even rounds. Got any ideas to throw in the hat for our next special round?

Red Hedgehog
12-08-2011, 05:46 PM
- Ban R&D's Secret Lair? There was a little discussion about it. I'll be honest: I got my deck idea from the comments on the Gatherer entry for this card. I'm not attached to it.

Oh yeah. I'm fine letting it have its fun for one round. But as you can see, it just causes rules headaches.

poetfox
12-08-2011, 05:49 PM
Freecast.
You may play cards without paying their mana cost.
Cards with X, Kickers, or similar will not be paid. Just the cost to play the card.

Destil
12-08-2011, 05:51 PM
- Ban R&D's Secret Lair? There was a little discussion about it. I'll be honest: I got my deck idea from the comments on the Gatherer entry for this card. I'm not attached to it.Yeah. Not sad to see it gone.

- Round 7 ideas? Sounds like we'll be doing normals on even rounds. Got any ideas to throw in the hat for our next special round?

New format: That does what now?! Each player starts with R&D's secret lair is in play.

poetfox
12-08-2011, 05:58 PM
How about a Demoted game type?
Only legal cards are those which had been lowered in rarity since their creation. So you could use Serra Angel, because it's now an Uncommon but was a Rare, and so on.

GyroNinja
12-08-2011, 06:00 PM
How about a Demoted game type?
Only legal cards are those which had been lowered in rarity since their creation. So you could use Serra Angel, because it's now an Uncommon but was a Rare, and so on.

Actually that makes me think of something. Pauper 3-Card Blind! Only 3 commons/basic lands.

Mr. J
12-08-2011, 06:03 PM
I like the idea of pauper better than stuff that has gone down in rarity. Bigger card pool for variation but still restricts enough to make it a challenge.

Destil
12-08-2011, 06:21 PM
Pauper sounds awesome.

I think my deck can only win as one approaches turn 100. I'd be curious to what decks can still "beat" an opponent doing nothing, yet take so long that my "clock" outpaces them.

- Eddie

I win on turn 204 every time, I believe ;)

GyroNinja
12-08-2011, 06:25 PM
Pauper sounds awesome.



I win on turn 204 every time, I believe ;)

I might have submitted the exact same deck before.

Although I think you can slow that deck down another dozen turns or so.

Destil
12-08-2011, 06:30 PM
I might have submitted the exact same deck before.

Although I think you can slow that deck down another dozen turns or so.

Hum, I spent an hour or so on gatherer looking for something to slow it down with but found nothing.

Oh, well.

Red Hedgehog
12-08-2011, 06:59 PM
I win on turn 204 every time, I believe ;)

Hmm... the slowest I could get was 202. But as I said, my deck still loses to it so I'm feeling pretty good.

ChainsawRepairman
12-08-2011, 07:39 PM
I was thinking pauper myself for round 7.

Or how about no creatures? Or no colorless spells?

CaptBlasto
12-08-2011, 07:53 PM
Wow, 200 turn wins? Thats......a lot longer than mine :(

Maybe I need to do some late night research

Red Hedgehog
12-08-2011, 08:48 PM
Pauper sounds fun.

Also, I scrap my previous idea for "Permanent Sphere of Resistance in effect" and Propose a new "Trinisphere in effect" environment.

Alpha Werewolf
12-08-2011, 11:29 PM
Pauper sounds cool.

Mogri
12-09-2011, 09:58 AM
Round 5. Are! You! Ready! To! BACKBUILD!


A. Alpha Werewolf
Test of Endurance (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Test+of+Endurance)
Springjack Pasture (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Springjack+Pasture)
Dreadship Reef (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Dreadship+Reef)
Wins on turn 153.

B. Arithon32
Black Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Black+Lotus)
Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Gods%27+Eye%2C+Gate+to+the+Reikai)
Braids, Cabal Minion (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Braids%2C+Cabal+Minion)
Wins on turn 20.

C. CaptBlasto
Sand Silos (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Sand+Silos)
Naked Singularity (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Naked+Singularity)
Broodstar (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Broodstar)
Wins on turn 646.

D. ChainsawRepairman
Sand Silos (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Sand+Silos)
Animate Artifact (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Animate+Artifact)
Gleemax (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Gleemax)
Wins on turn 1000007.

E. Destil
Timberline Ridge (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Timberline+Ridge)
Helix Pinnacle (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Helix+Pinnacle)
Gleemax (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Gleemax)
Wins on turn 203.

F. Eddie
Land Cap (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=2756)
Calciform Pools (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=108930)
Draco (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=178018)
Wins on turn 92.

G. GyroNinja
Sulfur Vent (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Sulfur+Vent)
Forbidden Orchard (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Forbidden+Orchard)
Adamaro, First to Desire (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=74187)
Opponent plays 2-3 cards: loses.
Opponent plays 1 card: wins on turn 13.
Opponent plays no cards: wins on turn 9.

H. Jikkuryu
Bottomless Vault (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4176)
Big Furry Monster (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=9780)
Big Furry Monster (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=9844)
Wins on turn 18, losing to land destruction.

I. Mr. J
Fungal Reaches (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Fungal+Reaches)
Teferi's Isle (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Teferi's+Isle)
Searing Touch (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Searing+Touch)
Wins on turn 155.

J. Mogri
Forest
Helix Pinnacle (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Helix+Pinnacle)
Denizen of the Deep (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Denizen+of+the+Deep)
Wins on turn 101.

K. poetfox
Swamp
Blood Celebrant (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Blood+Celebrant)
Ashnod's Coupon (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Ashnod's+Coupon)
Wins on turn 21, losing to creature destruction.

L. Red Hedgehog
Rainbow Vale (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Rainbow+Vale)
Ruins of Trokair (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Ruins+of+Trokair)
Barbed Wire (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Barbed+Wire)
Wins on turn 22 (during opponent's upkeep), losing to any damage, any healing, or the ability to produce mana.

M. Seiryu
Veldt (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Veldt)
Helix Pinnacle (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Helix+Pinnacle)
Ashnod's Coupon (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Ashnod's+Coupon)
Wins on turn 203.


In a vacuum, the order is G. GyroNinja (9) > H. Jikkuryu (18) > B. Arithon (20) > K. poetfox (21) > L. Red Hedgehog (22) > F. Eddie (92) > J. Mogri (101) > A. Alpha Werewolf (153) > I. Mr. J (155) > M. Seiryu = E. Destil (203) > C. CaptBlasto (156) > D. ChainsawRepairman (1000007). However, there are additional considerations in certain matchups:

GyroNinja: Alpha, Arithon, Eddie, Mr. J, poetfox, and Seiryu are all able to play at least two cards in time. GyroNinja loses all of those matchups.

Arithon32: Braids, Cabal Minion causes Jikkuryu to sac his land. Arithon wins this matchup. Ditto for Red and Barbed Wire.

Mr. J: Searing Touch kills poetfox's Blood Celebrant, winning that matchup.

Red Hedgehog: Any deck able to produce a point of mana can beat Red's deck. In practice, this is everyone but Arithon, who, as noted above, has other methods of dealing with Red's deck. The sole exception is GyroNinja's deck, which stalemates with Red.


Results:

X|A B C D E F G H I J K L M
A|X 6 0 0 0 6 6 6 0 6 6 0 0|36
B|0 X 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0|0
C|6 6 X 0 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 0 6|60
D|6 6 6 X 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 0 6|66
E|6 0 6 0 X 6 6 6 6 6 6 0 3|51
F|0 6 0 0 0 X 0 6 0 0 6 0 0|18
G|6 6 0 0 0 6 X 6 0 0 6 2 6|38
H|0 0 0 0 0 0 6 X 0 0 0 0 0|6
I|6 6 0 0 0 6 0 6 X 6 0 0 0|24
J|0 6 0 0 0 6 6 6 0 X 6 0 0|30
K|0 6 0 0 0 0 0 6 6 0 X 0 0|18
L|6 6 6 6 6 6 2 6 6 6 6 X 6|68
M|6 0 6 0 3 6 0 6 6 6 6 0 X|45

Final scores:
1. Red Hedgehog (L): 68
2. ChainsawRepairman (D): 66
3. CaptBlasto (C): 60
4. Destil (E): 51
5. Seiryu (M): 45
6. Alpha Werewolf (A): 36
7. GyroNinja (G): 38
8. Mogri (J): 36
9. Mr. J (I): 24
10. Eddie (F): 18
=. poetfox (K): 18
12. Jikkuryu (H): 6
13. Arithon32 (B): 0

Cheibriados Award for Time Management Excellence: ChainsawRepairman
Most Delightfully Terrible Deck Award: CaptBlasto
Stupid Coupon Award: Seiryu
Participation Award: Arithon32
Drinks Purchased: 46 (sadly, poet doesn't get to use the coupon vs. Red)

Congratulations, Red Hedgehog! You really deserve a win for constructing a deck that fails if the opponent has a basic land. I really thought Chainsaw had this round -- and he very nearly did.

My favorite decks this round were the ones that could theoretically pull off an early win, but in practice, lost if the opponent sneezed. To that end, special applause for GyroNinja as well. On the other hand, I feel singularly ashamed of my own deck, which required no creativity whatsoever.

I don't regret Denizen of the Deep, though.

Next week: We're back to vanilla for round 6 as soon as I can get confirmation on who won round 4.

Arithon32
12-09-2011, 10:24 AM
Every time I think I'm getting the hang of this, I get blown out. I couldn't even play badly well :(

GyroNinja
12-09-2011, 12:02 PM
I think you've got a lot of my results wrong.

You have me "losing" to Mogri and Destil, but they both can drop Helix Pinnacle on turn 1, which means I "win" easily. It's essentially the same match as Seiryu, which you correctly have me "winning".

Also you have me "losing" against Mr. J, but all he has to do is play out his two lands and then I have no way to kill him while he freely searing touches me to death. So that should be another "win" for me.

You have me "losing" outright to CaptainBlasto, but he can drop the naked singularity from his hand before I kill him with Adamaro, then trade with the forbidden orchard token. Of course, then his broodstar is forever a 0/0, so we should actually draw that match.

On the flipside though, you have me "winning" to Jikkuryu, but I think he actually dies to Adamaro before he can charge up enough counters to play out his BFG. So that one should actually be my "loss".

That doesn't change the outcome though, Red Hedgehog's deck was pretty sweet. I had my own idea for a Rainbow Vale deck but it wasn't as good as his. I like CaptainBlasto's deck too, Naked Singularity is a pretty classicaly bad card.

Alpha Werewolf
12-09-2011, 12:38 PM
Awesome round! Sweet decks all around.

I'd suggest banning Un-sets from future formats, though.

I'll have round 4 results by Sunday at the latest. A little busy right now.

Mogri
12-09-2011, 12:40 PM
I think you've got a lot of my results wrong.

You have me "losing" to Mogri and Destil, but they both can drop Helix Pinnacle on turn 1, which means I "win" easily. It's essentially the same match as Seiryu, which you correctly have me "winning".

Also you have me "losing" against Mr. J, but all he has to do is play out his two lands and then I have no way to kill him while he freely searing touches me to death. So that should be another "win" for me.

You have me "losing" outright to CaptainBlasto, but he can drop the naked singularity from his hand before I kill him with Adamaro, then trade with the forbidden orchard token. Of course, then his broodstar is forever a 0/0, so we should actually draw that match.

On the flipside though, you have me "winning" to Jikkuryu, but I think he actually dies to Adamaro before he can charge up enough counters to play out his BFG. So that one should actually be my "loss".

That doesn't change the outcome though, Red Hedgehog's deck was pretty sweet. I had my own idea for a Rainbow Vale deck but it wasn't as good as his. I like CaptainBlasto's deck too, Naked Singularity is a pretty classicaly bad card.

As for the way I was thinking to slow down the Helix Pinnacle deck a few more turns, you should run an off-green storage land like Sand Silos and throw in North Star, so you have to work for that first green mana. It doesn't really matter though aside from other Pinnacle mirror matches.

Ah, you're right. This is what happens when I decide, "Hey, this round is simple enough for me to mod on my own."

Destil
12-09-2011, 01:10 PM
City of Ass, Little Girl, <random uncastable card> would have done better than I thought...

ChainsawRepairman
12-09-2011, 01:11 PM
I'm surprised nobody else thought of my awesome one million damage combo. I even saw another gleemax up there.

I'm also surprised i got second. Good work, Red.

Red Hedgehog
12-09-2011, 01:17 PM
That doesn't change the outcome though, Red Hedgehog's deck was pretty sweet. I had my own idea for a Rainbow Vale deck but it wasn't as good as his. I like CaptainBlasto's deck too, Naked Singularity is a pretty classicaly bad card.

Yeah, at first I went the way most people went with "What's the slowest I can goldfish?" I came up with Storage Land / Survivor of the Unseen (http://magiccards.info/cs/en/48.html) and was pretty happy with that (~turn 125), but since I had thought of including Lord of the Pit as my Random third card, I also thought about using a card with drawbacks. After verifying the the dummy opponent would try to win if possible, I nixed a Sleeper Agent (http://magiccards.info/10e/en/178.html) deck. I'll hold onto the other deck I came up with that would have done as well as the deck I submitted just in case we do this again.

GyroNinja
12-09-2011, 03:13 PM
Wait, hold on, rereading Barbed Wire, it doesn't actually have the "any player may activate this ability" text. So I don't think it works like I thought it does...

Mogri
12-09-2011, 03:18 PM
Oh man, you're right! Then we're back to how I originally scored it, before Red's persistent comments made me re-examine his deck.

X|A B C D E F G H I J K L M
A|X 6 0 0 0 6 6 6 0 6 6 0 0|42
B|0 X 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0|0
C|6 6 X 0 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 0 6|66
D|6 6 6 X 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 0 6|72
E|6 0 6 0 X 6 6 6 6 6 6 0 3|57
F|0 6 0 0 0 X 0 6 0 0 6 0 0|24
G|6 6 0 0 0 6 X 6 0 0 6 2 6|42
H|0 0 0 0 0 0 6 X 0 0 0 0 0|6
I|6 6 0 0 0 6 0 6 X 6 0 0 0|30
J|0 6 0 0 0 6 6 6 0 X 6 0 0|36
K|0 6 0 0 0 0 0 6 6 0 X 0 0|18
L|0 6 0 0 0 0 0 6 6 0 6 X 0|24
M|6 0 6 0 3 6 0 6 6 6 6 0 X|51

Final scores:
1. ChainsawRepairman (D): *72*
4. CaptBlasto (C): 66
2. Destil (E): 57
3. Seiryu (M): 51
5. Alpha Werewolf (A): 42
=. GyroNinja (G): 42
7. Mogri (J): 36
8. Mr. J (I): 30
9. Eddie (F): 24
=. Red Hedgehog (L): 24
11. poetfox (K): 18
12. Jikkuryu (H): 6
13. Arithon32 (B): 0

Red Hedgehog
12-09-2011, 03:27 PM
Wait, hold on, rereading Barbed Wire, it doesn't actually have the "any player may activate this ability" text. So I don't think it works like I thought it does...

Wait what? Man, I could have sworn Barbed Wire said "At the end of each turn, target opponent gains control of Barbed Wire."

Now I'm really wishing I had submitted my other deck. :(

Jikkuryuu
12-09-2011, 03:53 PM
I'm surprised nobody else thought of my awesome one million damage combo. I even saw another gleemax up there.

I'm also surprised i got second. Good work, Red.

I spent a long while trying to make a gleemax deck, looking for a card that let the opponent do something threatening to "target". That way the gleemax would be the only practical use for the card and a smart player wouldn't play it until they had gleemax out.

Your idea makes me feel dumb. Good job!

ChainsawRepairman
12-09-2011, 09:02 PM
Yeah, i was also kinda up in the air between making a "slowest clock" deck and a "let the pain out" deck that wins on 1 life.

Also, i think the real slowest deck uses broodstar instead of animate artifact clocking in at about 1,000,031 turns. Oh well.

Seiryu
12-09-2011, 09:07 PM
I'm pretty sure Destil and me tie, his deck should finish on Gyro's the same as mine.

Mogri
12-09-2011, 10:38 PM
You're right, as Gyro noted earlier. I forgot to change it in the rescore.

GyroNinja
12-10-2011, 06:10 AM
Yeah, i was also kinda up in the air between making a "slowest clock" deck and a "let the pain out" deck that wins on 1 life.

Also, i think the real slowest deck uses broodstar instead of animate artifact clocking in at about 1,000,031 turns. Oh well.

You could have also made your deck 2 turns slower by using March of the Machines (http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=106555) instead of Animate Artifact. And more importantly, it would have let you beat my deck :(

Alpha Werewolf
12-11-2011, 06:07 AM
Alright, I've checked Redgehog's fixes for round 4. Everything is correct.

Mogri
12-12-2011, 10:03 AM
The first post has been updated with the new banlist. Karakas, Student of Warfare, and Leyline of Singularity have been added to the list.

CaptBlasto
12-12-2011, 12:24 PM
Are we going to be keeping a banlist for any of the variant rounds?

Mogri
12-12-2011, 12:34 PM
We could maintain a list if anyone thinks it's worthwhile to do so. I don't know how many iterations we'll end up doing for a particular variant, but it may be easiest to keep the banlists on an as-we-go basis (i.e. just summing them up at the end of each round for that particular variant).

Mogri
12-14-2011, 03:52 PM
Round 6 is cancelled due to rain. Rain and almost everyone submitting the same deck. So the following cards are banned:

Black Lotus
Blacker Lotus
The Cheese Stands Alone
R&D's Secret Lair

One bold player submitted a deck that ties with Cheese. I should technically ban those cards as well, but I won't. Let's get on with our metagame.

======

The variant for round 7 is Channel Surfing. Tired of spending your hard-earned mana to cast spells? Why not spend your life points instead? It's quick and easy! Ask me how.

...

Thanks for asking! Life points can be used as mana of any color on a 1-to-1 basis. Spells with a cost of X are always cast with X=0 (even if you provide non-channeled mana to cast them). The game is played as normal otherwise.

Red Hedgehog
12-14-2011, 04:13 PM
Wait, what?

I was totally going to (re)submit the Leyline of Anticipation / Mesmeric Fiend / Lotus deck which would have beaten cheese. And gotten those cards banned which would allow an environment with Lotus but no cheese. Give some warning before submissions are ending next time!

Destil
12-14-2011, 04:17 PM
Yeah, I was planning on Evermind / Shoal / Mennite again myself (or some other 'counter the lotus' variant)...

Oh the other hand, this new format... is pretty sweet.

Destil
12-14-2011, 04:34 PM
Questions:

Can I 'burn' myself to float mana? If so does doing so it use the stack? Or is just pay life whenever I would play mana abilities, and pay only life up to the cost of your current spell?
Is the life payment loss of life or damage?

Mogri
12-14-2011, 04:43 PM
No, no (see below), and yes. If it helps, think of your life points themselves as a floating mana pool. You convert life to mana at casting time.
Loss of life, naturally. It is also a mana-generating effect, and as such does not use the stack.

I'm no rules lawyer, so I'm not 100% certain that this works as intended. If you have any suggestions to make this round run smoothly, please make them.

@Red: Sorry :( The situtation was that I had received the same deck from four different people (and was going to submit same deck myself if no one else had). I was looking at a really unexciting round, so I made an executive decision. The metagame needed a kick in the pants.

Destil
12-14-2011, 05:07 PM
Well, that rends the first deck I thought of impotent. But that sounds sane, compared to the way it worked in my head.

Red Hedgehog
12-14-2011, 05:52 PM
@Red: Sorry :( The situtation was that I had received the same deck from four different people (and was going to submit same deck myself if no one else had). I was looking at a really unexciting round, so I made an executive decision. The metagame needed a kick in the pants.

Oh I agree - I was out of "rogue" decks so I would have just submitted one of the cheese beaters. I would have just preferred a more organic change to the metagame.

(Okay, mostly I really would have liked to get Leyline of Anticipation banned while still having one lotus available)

Seiryu
12-14-2011, 08:29 PM
Wait, what?

I was totally going to (re)submit the Leyline of Anticipation / Mesmeric Fiend / Lotus deck which would have beaten cheese.

Hey, don't steal my decks punk :P.

Mogri
12-15-2011, 11:23 AM
This is gonna be a good round :)

Mogri
12-22-2011, 12:11 PM
"I've always dreamed of winning a 3CB round, but have never been able to."

Well, you'd better submit a deck, then! You have twelve hours to scrounge something up. I have decks from the following players:

Arithon32
ChainsawRepairman
Destil
GyroNinja
Jikkuryuu
Mogri
poetfox
Red Hedgehog
Seiryu

Is your name on that list? No? Submit a deck.

Seiryu
12-24-2011, 08:49 PM
Aww, no round 7 update yet? :confused:

Alpha Werewolf
12-24-2011, 11:23 PM
That's, uh, kinda my fault. Yesterday was really busy, so I haven't proccessed the matches yet.

Mogri
12-25-2011, 09:59 PM
Round 7, finally!


1. Arithon32
Blightning (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Blightning)
Brittle Effigy (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Brittle+Effigy)
Progenitus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Progenitus)

2. CaptBlasto
Near-Death Experience (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Near-Death+Experience)
Thrun, the Last Troll (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Thrun,+the+Last+Troll)
Leyline of Sanctity (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Leyline+of+Sanctity)

3. ChainsawRepairman
Mindbreak Trap (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Mindbreak+Trap)
Bant Charm (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Bant+Charm)
Gaea's Revenge (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Gaea's+Revenge)

4. Destil
Akroma, Angel of Fury (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Akroma,+Angel+of+Fury)
Time Stop (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Time+Stop)
Pulse of the Fields (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Pulse+of+the+Fields)

5. GyroNinja
Searing Wind (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Searing+Wind)
Wild Ricochet (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Wild+Ricochet)
Undermine (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Undermine)

6. Jikkuryuu
Progenitus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Progenitus)
Maelstrom Archangel (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Maelstrom+Archangel)
Cruel Ultimatum (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Cruel+Ultimatum)

7. Mogri
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Emrakul,+the+Aeons+Torn)
Dromar's Charm (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Dromar's Charm)
Leyline of Anticipation (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Leyline+of+Anticipation)

8. poetfox
Transcendence (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Transcendence)
Kumano, Master Yamabushi (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Kumano,+Master+Yamabushi)
Serene Offering (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Serene+Offering)

9. Red Hedgehog
Wheel and Deal (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Wheel+and+Deal)
The Cheese Stands Alone (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!The+Cheese+Stands+Alone)
Decree of Silence (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Decree+of+Silence)

0. Seiryu
Esper Charm (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Esper+Charm)
Mystic Snake (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Mystic+Snake)
Mindbreak Trap (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Mindbreak+Trap)


X|1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0
1|X 0 2 2 0 0 0 3 0 2|9
2|6 X 0 0 6 6 0 6 0 0|24
3|2 6 X 2 2 0 6 6 6 2|32
4|2 6 2 X 2 6 0 6 2 0|26
5|6 0 2 2 X 6 6 6 2 2|32
6|6 0 6 0 0 X 0 2 0 2|16
7|6 6 0 6 0 6 X 6 6 2|38
8|3 0 0 0 0 2 0 X 1 0|6
9|6 6 0 2 2 6 0 4 X 0|26
0|2 6 2 6 2 2 2 6 6 X|34

Final scores
1. Mogri (7): 38
2. Seiryu (0): 34
3. ChainsawRepairman (3): 32
#. GyroNinja (5): 32
5. Destil (4): 26
6. Red Hedgehog (9): 26
7. CaptBlasto (2): 24
8. Arithon (1): 9
9. Poetfox (8): 6


Alpha's notes: Oh God, never make me do this format again.

Double check your results, and after you're sure about your matches, check them again. And then leave for an hour and check them again.


Undefeated Award: Seiryu
Christmas Gift to Myself: Leaving out the rest of the flavor


Round 8 is back to normal. Enjoy!

Seiryu
12-25-2011, 11:23 PM
Uhh you might want to refigure a few of my matches. Don't forget I can cast *all* of my spells during my opponent's upkeep. Basically I would cast Esper Charm to make them discard 2 cards to start, they'd either have to respond to it or get discarded...

Me vs Chains: I start during his or my upkeep the same way either way, cast my charm to make him discard, he counters with charm or mindbreak, I drop my snake to counter his charm, he counters with his 2nd charm, I mindbreak all of his spells, letting my snake go through and he has to discard his gaea's revenge. 6 - 0

Me vs Mogri: If you hold for me to cast my snake, I'll just attack you until you lose. If you counter snake, I'll cast charm for discard, then you'll be forced to cast Emrakul, which I'll exile in response. 6 - 0 With leyline you've left yourself out an answer to the deck. If you used charm to give -2/-2 to the snake, I'd make you discard and either force you to cast emrakul then, or if you let him get discarded, I'd then exile the charm and attack for 2, bringing you down to 15, enough to kill you from casting emrakul. If you did it during my turn, you'd end up drawing emrakul to cast him before I attacked. So that would be 4-1 since I could just make us tie that round by letting my snake die and holding my counter for emrakul.

Destil
12-26-2011, 03:22 AM
Seiryu - not sure how he beats me.
If he opens with charm I pitch pulse and time stop. He plays snake (putting him at 13). I play Akroma via morph (putting me at 11). He can't win that race. If he dosn't play snake I do the exact same thing.

If he doesn't open charm with he's forced to cast snake before the end of my first turn (he has three more life but it's never relevant to the race). I let it resolve and we're in the same spot we were above. He never gets a target for trap or counter and playing snake any later is strictly worse.

Arithon32 - Draw looks correct. He has no way to deal with Pulse of the Fields, I have no way of stopping both Blightning and Effigy, either of which hit my win condition.
CaptBlasto - Win looks correct. I just counter Near-Death Experience. The troll is irrelevant with Pulse and Akroma can win that race anyway.
ChainsawRepairman - Draw looks correct. We can't do anything about each other's creatures. I loose the race, he can always counter Pulse, but I can always choose to trade before I'm dead.
GyroNinja - Draw looks correct. He can't go off (I just pulse between his winds. He's forced to counter, I so I exile the pulse, the original wind and the undermine with time stop) but I don't have any way to keep Akroma alive if he doesn't.
poetfox - Win looks correct. I just counter her only win condition.
Mogri - Loos looks correct. Countering either timestop or pulse. Spends too much mana for me to cheese Pulse in any meaningful way.
Red - beats me because he has two 'must counters': Wheel and Deal and Decree and I have one counter. Spends too much mana for me to cheese Pulse in any meaningful way.

Alpha Werewolf
12-26-2011, 03:57 AM
Destil, note that you can only cheese pulse if your opponent allows it (they can generate mana after you cast it).

As for the Seiryu match:

Seiryu always opens with instant-speed Esper Charm. You always lose a counter war so you discard Stop and Pulse. You can't cast Akroma because he'll Mindbreak it (not actually countering), so he wins with Snake.

Seiryu
12-26-2011, 09:18 AM
Seiryu - not sure how he beats me.
If he opens with charm I pitch pulse and time stop. He plays snake (putting him at 13). I play Akroma via morph (putting me at 11). He can't win that race. If he dosn't play snake I do the exact same thing.

If he doesn't open charm with he's forced to cast snake before the end of my first turn (he has three more life but it's never relevant to the race). I let it resolve and we're in the same spot we were above. He never gets a target for trap or counter and playing snake any later is strictly worse.

Yeah, like Alpha said. Even if I open with charm, you'll have to cast your time stop in response, or discard pulse and time stop, which I can counter anyway with snake. Then I mindbreak your akroma. (Note: Akroma counts as a spell when being cast as a morph, it's just the morph ability itself that can't be interrupted. So if you cast as a morph, I can still counter it even with snake, or mindbreak it if you hardcast Akroma.) Since I can initiate every turn during any player's upkeep, I'm always ahead of Akroma.

Destil
12-26-2011, 10:11 AM
Destil, note that you can only cheese pulse if your opponent allows it (they can generate mana after you cast it).

As for the Seiryu match:

Seiryu always opens with instant-speed Esper Charm. You always lose a counter war so you discard Stop and Pulse. You can't cast Akroma because he'll Mindbreak it (not actually countering), so he wins with Snake.

Ah, for some reason I was thinking playing a morph face down wasn't a spell, but it's just flipping it that doesn't use the stack. It's a 3 mana colorless creature spell looking at the comprehensive rules. Okay.

GyroNinja
12-26-2011, 10:15 AM
Okay, I think all my matches are correct.

Arithon32 - Win is correct, he has no instants so I kill him on the first upkeep.
CaptBlasto - Loss is correct, he's basically playing anti-mydeck. I can't do a thing against Thrun, and his Leyline blanks my only win condition.
ChainsawRepairman - This one is complicated, but I'm pretty sure draw is correct. For him to win, he has to play Gaea's Revenge, in which case I counter with Searing Wind and pass priority. If he lets it resolve, then I undermine his Revenge for the win (it isn't countered, but he still loses his last 3 life). If tries to counter it, I can undermine his Mindbreak Trap and Wild Ricochet his Bant Charm, so I win the counter war and he loses. On the other hand, I can't win unless I play Searing Wind and Ricochet it, which he can stop by casting Mindbreak Trap targeting both of them, and then Bant Charm when I Undermine it. So neither of us can play a spell without losing.
Jikkuryuu - Win is right, he has no instants so I win on the first upkeep.
Destil - Destil is right, his counters are sufficent for keeping his life above 0, but not to protect his Akroma. Neither of us is left with a win condition, so it's a draw.
Mogri - Dromar Charm isn't enough to save him from a forked Searing Wind, since I just undermine it. I win on the first upkeep.
poetfox - No instants, so I win on the first upkeep again.
Red - Is saved by his choice of counterspells. I can't undermine a cycled Decree of Silence, so on the first upkeep I can only take him down to 4 life. That's enough to prevent him from casting Cheese, though, so it's a draw.
Seiryu - Another really complicated match up. Just like Chainsaw's deck, I can't go off with Searing Wind because he has Mindbreak trap + a second counter. But if he plays Esper Charm, then I Wild Ricochet; If he doesn't counter it, he loses his hand, and it's a draw. If he does counter it, I Undermine. If he tries to play his second counter, that puts him at 9 life, so I Searing Wind right there for the win. So he can't play Esper Charm. If he tries to cold cast Mystic Snake, I just Searing Wind + Ricochet him and Undermine his Mindbreak Trap, so he can't cast Mystic Snake. And obviously Mindbreak Trap doesn't do much on an empty stack. So again, neither of us can play any spells, and it's a draw.

Overall I know my deck has some weaknesses, so I'm pretty satisfied tying for 3rd. I'm not sure if Undermine was the right counter to play, and I would have gotten two more points had I gone with Voidslime instead (My draw with RedHedgehog would have become a win, but my draw with Chainsaw would have been a loss), but I still think it was pretty good. Mindbreak Trap got me pretty good a couple times, though.

Seiryu
12-26-2011, 11:29 AM
And as for Red Hedgehog's deck, I'm fairly certain that The Cheese Stands Alone was banned from round 6, wasn't it?

Mogri
12-26-2011, 01:48 PM
And as for Red Hedgehog's deck, I'm fairly certain that The Cheese Stands Alone was banned from round 6, wasn't it?

Theme rounds run their own banlists. Sorry if that wasn't altogether clear.

Regarding our matchup, I believe Emrakul is protected from exile.

Seiryu
12-26-2011, 02:14 PM
Regarding our matchup, I believe Emrakul is protected from exile.

Actually, it just says he can't be countered. He can still be Exiled. The protection from colored spells only takes effect when he hits play. He's fair game while he's on the stack.

From the rules text on his link "6/15/2010: Emrakul can be targeted by spells that try to counter it (such as Lay Bare). Those spells will resolve, but the part of their effect that would counter Emrakul won't do anything. Any other effects those spells have will work as normal."

Since Mindblast Trap doesn't counter, it still resolves.

ChainsawRepairman
12-26-2011, 02:15 PM
Far as i can tell, emrakul can still be "countered" by mindbreak trap and time stop... though he gets to reshuffle after he hits the bin on the time stop there.

Also, i think i go 6-0 vs. Destil this round. I can always beat red akroma with mindbreak trap, morph or no (i was confused on this for a while too) and Destil always loses a counterspell fight to save akroma if he plays time stop, since it has to counter akroma if she's still on the stack.


But yeah, i can clearly see how hard figuring out 90 matches like this can get. good work so far, Alpha.

Destil
12-26-2011, 02:33 PM
Yeah, ChainsawRepairman wins since I can't get past mindbreak.

Mogri
12-26-2011, 07:23 PM
How are you gentlemen?

I am thinking of pushing this round out a week. I don't know about you, but I'm on vacation through the week. If others have limited availability as well, we'll extend the deadline. Otherwise, we can still do this.

GyroNinja
12-26-2011, 07:36 PM
But yeah, i can clearly see how hard figuring out 90 matches like this can get. good work so far, Alpha.

Yeah, this one was particularly hard because of all the crazy cards you wouldn't see in a normal game, and because of all the life point calculations you have to keep track of.

But since I enjoy watching Alpha suffer, I say we do 60-card blind for the next special round. Each entrant submits a stacked 60 card singleton deck and their first 7 card hand, then may pick any card in their deck each time they draw. Joking. Mostly.

Alpha Werewolf
12-26-2011, 09:52 PM
(Actually, Time Stop exiles all spells on the stack)

The main difficulty in this round is that at any given time, most people can cast 2-3 different spells, and I have to check every possibility. For 90 games.

Seiryu
12-27-2011, 05:06 PM
How are you gentlemen?

I am thinking of pushing this round out a week. I don't know about you, but I'm on vacation through the week. If others have limited availability as well, we'll extend the deadline. Otherwise, we can still do this.

I'm good for this week.

Destil
12-27-2011, 07:20 PM
Yeah, 3 Card Blind isn't terribly time intensive for anyone but Alpha. I'm down.

Red Hedgehog
12-27-2011, 08:39 PM
I'm pretty sure Seiryu still wins the round, but I'm also pretty sure I should have more points. See below.

And man, I had no idea Mindbreak Trap existed and while I think I still do better going with Decree of Silence, I'm really glad now I didn't go with the Vexing Shusher deck I was thinking of.

Gyroninja, any reason you used Wild Ricochet instead of Fork or Reverberate?

As for timing, I'm fine with pushing the deadline back.

All the other points look right for me, except:

Me vs. ChainsawRepairman (3):

On the play, I cast Wheel and Deal during upkeep. If he cast's Mindbreak Trap on Wheel & Deal, he can do nothing about me casting Cheese and winning. If he casts Bant Charm on it, I can let it resolve, cast Cheese, cycle Decree against Mindbreak Trap if necessary. If he does nothing, he loses his hand and can do nothing against me casting cheese and winning.

On the draw, I can't prevent him from casting Gaea's Revenge so that's 8 damage. I need 16 life to get all my cards out of my hand so the Revenge will eventually kill me.

3 points (+3)

Me vs. Destil (4):

Play:
I cast Wheel and Deal when I first get priority. If he Time Stop's in response, I Decree of Silence it. I play Cheese and Win.
Draw:
If he casts Time Stop when he first gets priority, I let it resolve. On my turn, I cycle decree with nothing on the stack and play cheese and win. If he doesn't, when I'm first passed priority I cast Wheel and Deal and follow the above.

6 points (+4)

Me vs. Mogri (7):

Play:
Win. (He can't prevent me from casting cheese)

Draw:
Lose. (The extra turn from Emrakul lets him attack and put me to 5 so I can't cast cheese)

3 points (+3)

Me vs. poetfox (8):

Play / Draw
I Wheel and Deal during the first upkeep. She loses her hand and I win when I cycle and cast cheese.

6 points (+2)

Me vs. Seiryu (0):

I can't win, but I can always force a tie. All I need is Decree of Silence, which I can hold onto if Seiryu casts Esper Charm. I cycle it in response to Seiryu casting Mystic Snake and counter it with the cycle trigger targeting the snake. Since that is an ability not a spell, Mindbreak Trap cannot target it.

2 points (+2)

That brings my total to 40. Looking at Seiryu's changes, I can't figure if his Destil points change to 6 or 4. If it changes to 4, his score is 38 (+6 for his figuring, -2 for my figuring). If it changes to 6, his score is 40 and we tie?

GyroNinja
12-28-2011, 06:52 AM
Gyroninja, any reason you used Wild Ricochet instead of Fork or Reverberate?


Because I think the card is super sweet, and just in case someone else was trying to use a Searing Wind style deck. The 2 extra life didn't worry me, so I figured any extra utility I got from using the more versatile spell was a freeroll. I don't think it ever mattered this round, though.

Mogri
12-31-2011, 10:22 AM
So... despite you guys saying you had time, no one actually put in a deck for this week. Round 8 continues next week!

Red Hedgehog
01-05-2012, 09:58 AM
Right... singleton rule.

Back to the drawing board...

Mogri
01-05-2012, 10:04 AM
Hey kids! Do you want to have a little Magic: The Gathering fun this week? Then shoot me a deck! I have three submissions so far, so you've got about a 25% chance to take it all home if you enter now.

ChainsawRepairman, Seiryu, and newcomer Vicarin, you can ignore this post and go your merry ways.

Red Hedgehog
01-05-2012, 03:38 PM
I'm working on it! No Loti changes things a lot.

Mogri
01-06-2012, 09:53 AM
While we're waiting for Alpha to tally this week's results (let's all give him a hand, ladies and gentlemen), how about the theme for next week's special round?

Round 9 is I Brought a Spare round! Isn't having only three cards a real drag, guys? Why not bring a few more? This week, one of your cards is duplicated. You still start with three cards in your hand, but you have a deck with 57 copies of one of your three cards. For example, let's suppose I submit the following deck:

*Putrid Imp*
Swamp
Imprison

In that case, I'd start with that deck as my hand and draw a Putrid Imp during each of my draw phases. These new Putrid Imps are also cards and can be placed in the graveyard, activating Threshold.

But wait! There's more! Two more rules have changed for this format:
First-turn wins are banned. (Any decks capable of winning on their first turn are disqualified.)
You can lose by topdecking (at least in theory).

That's all! Now go forth and prove to me that this was a terrible idea.

Lakupo
01-06-2012, 10:13 AM
Whoops, I've had a deck bouncing around in my head for a while, waiting for a regular round again, and I lost track. ...but maybe it will make an interesting special deck... nah, I'd rather see it versus the normal stuff, so I'll wait, and try to think of something else more that takes advantage of the format.

Alpha Werewolf
01-06-2012, 10:59 AM
This week's results will be delayed a little; I won't have the time to process them today, and tommorow I'll be at the Grand Prix Trial all day (I'm unlikely to win and won't fly to Madrid if I do, but it's great fun and a chance to play at the highest level around here).

So that's why you won't get results until Sunday if you're waiting on me. Just a heads-up ^_^

Destil
01-06-2012, 11:17 AM
Round 9 is I Brought a Spare round!
Maximum hand size is 7?

Mogri
01-06-2012, 11:23 AM
All rules are standard Magic except as noted.

Red Hedgehog
01-06-2012, 11:32 AM
Wishin' I'd had more time to come up with a deck for this week. I like the one I submitted but am thinking there are better.

How about for a theme round, Creatureless - No cards with the type creature (so Dryad Arbor is out along with vanilla creatures). Cheese should probably be banned in that round too although I've come up with several good decks that beat it.

Mogri
01-09-2012, 09:41 PM
Almost Tuesday: You can officially start bugging Alpha now.

Mogri
01-10-2012, 10:11 AM
Round 8! Make it so!


1. Arithon32
Plains
Path to Exile (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Path+to+Exile)
Isamaru, Hound of Konda (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Isamaru,+Hound+of+Konda)

2. CaptBlasto
Inkmoth Nexus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Inkmoth+Nexus)
Maze of Ith (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Maze+of+Ith)
Mutavault (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Mutavault)

3. ChainsawRepairman
Mishra's Workshop (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Mishra's+Workshop)
Trinisphere (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Trinisphere)
Steel Golem (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Steel+Golem)

4. Destil
Punishing Fire (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Punishing+Fire)
Grove of the Burnwillows (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Grove+of+the+Burnwillows)
Mountain

5. GyroNinja
Blackmail (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Blackmail)
Bayou (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Bayou)
Rogue Elephant (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Rogue+Elephant)

6. Mogri
Form of the Squirrel (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Form+of+the+Squirrel)
Pouncing Jaguar (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Pouncing+Jaguar)
Llanowar Reborn (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Llanowar+Reborn)

7. Red Hedgehog
Mox Pearl (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Mox+Pearl)
Inkmoth Nexus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Inkmoth+Nexus)
Balance (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Balance)

8. Seiryu
Mountain
Burning Inquiry (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Burning+Inquiry)
Basking Rootwalla (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Basking+Rootwalla)

9. Vicarin
Mishra's Workshop (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Mishra's+Workshop)
Trinisphere (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Trinisphere)
Steel Golem (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Steel+Golem)


X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
1| X 2 0 0 0 2 2 3 0|9
2| 2 X 6 0 1 2 2 1 6|20
3| 6 0 X 6 3 6 4 3 2|30
4| 6 6 0 X 0 3 2 0 0|17
5| 6 4 3 6 X 4 6 3 3|25
6| 2 2 0 3 1 X 0 0 0|8
7| 2 2 1 2 0 6 X 3 1|17
8| 3 4 3 6 3 6 3 X 3|31
9| 6 0 2 6 3 6 4 3 X|30

Final scores:
1: GyroNinja (5): 33
2: Seiryu (8): 31
3: ChainsawRepairman (3): 30
#: Vicarin (9): 30
5: CaptBlasto (2): 20
6: Destil (4): 17
#: Red Hedgehog (7): 17
8: Arithon32 (1): 9
9: Mogri (6): 8

Deck Recycling Award: Seiryu
Duplication Award: ChainsawRepairman and Vicarin
Favorite Card Award: Red Hedgehog
Squirrel Award of Excellence: Mogri

Hey everyone! Let's give Alpha a round of applause for helping out this week. He may have been late, but he did it, and it was a busy week for him. Thanks, Alpha!

That said, can someone double-check my results? Surely I can at least tie on the play against other creature decks.

Blackmail, Bayou, and Rogue Elephant are banned. See you next this week with I Brought a Spare!

GyroNinja
01-10-2012, 10:34 AM
5| 6 4 3 6 X 4 6 3 3|25

Okay I need to check and see if my matches are right, but the addition there does NOT add up at all. Assuming all the matches are correct, that's 35 points, and I should win the round?

Arithon - I win since I can always blackmail his path, and rogue elephant beats Isamaru. So that's 6.
CaptnBlasto - If I go first I take his maze and outrace either of his manlands. If he goes first, he plays maze and I take his nexus, and then we draw. So 4 is right.
ChainsawRepairman - Yeah, obvious three, either I go first and take Mishra's factory, or he goes first and drops Trinisphere.
Destil - Rogue Elephant is too big for punishing fire, 6 points.
Mogri - Going first, I take Lanwar Reborn and win, going second I take one of his creatures, but the other one forces a draw (either I get moated by Form of the Squirrel, or Rogue Elephant trades with a Grafted Jaguar). 4 Points is right.
RedHedgehog - Actually, I think this should be 4 points, not 6. If he goes first, he can immediately Balance, so I discard my hand. But then he sacrifices his manland, and It's a draw.
Seiryu - Whoever goes first wins, so 3 points.
Vicarin - Same deck as Chainsaw.

So I think I should have 33 points, unless I'm wrong about Hedgehog?

Mogri
01-10-2012, 10:37 AM
Yeah, that's also true.

GyroNinja
01-10-2012, 10:49 AM
I think you're right about your points being so low also, let me work this out for a while...

Arithon - Double draw is right, you play out a 3/3 Jaguar and he has the Path it, so then you play out Squirrel and draw. 2 points.
CaptnBlasto - Draw I think. He can't kill squirrel, but you can't attack into maze and Mutavault regardless of which creature you graft. 2 points.
Chainsaw - Destroys you with Trinisphere either way. 0 points.
Destil - On the play, you can graft up Jaguar and beat down, but on the draw he can punishing fire in response, so 3 points is right.
Me - As before, Blackmail destroys you on the draw, but we draw when you play. 1 point.
RedHedgehog - You can't actually beat balance, ever.
Seiryu - Burning inquiry gets you every time.
Vicarin - Same as Chainsaw.

So uh, looks like he was correct. Sorry. :(

Alpha Werewolf
01-10-2012, 11:26 AM
Mogri: Your main weakness was the fact that your land came onto the battlefield tapped (making you _always_ play second, in practice, meaning that most disruption was going to work in both games, not exclusively/mostly the one where you go second), and the complete lack of disruption.

Gyro's score was a typo, obviously :p And yeah, his correction is also correct.

Mogri
01-10-2012, 11:27 AM
Mogri: Your main weakness was the fact that your land came onto the battlefield tapped

aaaah

GyroNinja
01-10-2012, 11:47 AM
Oh wait, snap, no I think Mogri actually draws with Destil on the draw. Destil can't throw punishing fire at Mogri's face or he has to tap down to recover it, giving Mogri a window to play Jaguar. So he actually has 9 points, not 8.

Mogri
01-10-2012, 12:09 PM
Aww yeah, tied for 8th.

ChainsawRepairman
01-10-2012, 12:25 PM
Yeah, Mogri would've done much, much better with a Pendelhaven as his land. Why don't they print lands like that anymore?

Also I fully expect this coming round to be at least twice as crazy as this one.

Red Hedgehog
01-10-2012, 01:02 PM
Man, the day after I submitted I realized it should have been a Blackmail deck. Oh well.

I do have some more points coming to me I think:

VS Arithon:

I can play my Mox Pearl and Inkmoth Nexus no matter what.

If Arithon plays Plains, I cast Balance on my next turn and can attack with impunity.
If Arithon doesn't, I can attack without fear of Path to Exile.

6 points (+3)


VS Destil:

I can play my Mox Pearl and Inkmoth Nexus no matter what.

If Destil plays a land, I cast Balance on my next turn. If that land was Grove of the Burnwillows, he can get Punishing Fire back but will be unable to cast it since his mountain is in his graveyard.
If Destil doesn't play a land, I just attack.

6 points (+3)

VS Gyroninja

As he mentioned, I can force a tie on the play.

1 point (+1)

---

24 points, 5th place baby!

One day Balance shall have its day in the sun!

GyroNinja
01-10-2012, 01:36 PM
Yeah, Mogri would've done much, much better with a Pendelhaven as his land. Why don't they print lands like that anymore?



Basically, they don't want lands that strictly outclass basic lands because they tend to be auto-includes in decks. Granted, there are situations where Pendelhaven is worse than a basic forest (Wasteland, Blood Moon, Dungrove Elder, etc, but still). They still print lands with powerful abilities, but as a rule they either:

1.) Damage you (Barbarian Ring (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=234737) is the best example, they don't do these too often anymore because most casual players hate them)
2.) Come into play tapped (Bojuka Bog (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247536), Oran-Rief, the Vastwood (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=190417), Treetop Village (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=243455), etc)
3.) Only make colorless mana (Kessig Wolf Run (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=233256) + Cycle, Academy Ruins (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=116725), those Ravnica Guild Lands, etc)
4.) All of the above! (Boseiju,Who Shelters All (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=75305), Hall of the Bandit Lord (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=77924))

The most recent example I can think of a Pendelhaven like land is Flagstones of Trokair (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=116733), which was in the retro-throwback set. Before that, I can only think of the Kamigawa Legendary lands (Shizo (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=79186), etc), which have way weaker effects and were legendary in a format where that was more of a drawback.


Man, the day after I submitted I realized it should have been a Blackmail deck. Oh well.


Ironically, you're the reason I thought of the card. Back in round 6 I tried this deck with Thoughtsieze, and lost to your Karakas/Singularity deck in part because I couldn't take Karakas. When I was wondering if there was a better discard spell to play, I remembered Blackmail.

:edit: also I'm naming my deck Onenightinbayou.dec (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9tscM5SYdM) (probably nsfw)

Seiryu
01-10-2012, 09:36 PM
Boo, Mogri didn't update round 7's scores :(

ChainsawRepairman
01-10-2012, 09:40 PM
Well, my rationale was they can print lands with weak or conditional abilities (like Hammerheim (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=201242)) and give them the legendary supertype so they become a dead draw if you have too many of them.

That does make them an auto-include if you have one or two copies, though... So if they kept printing lands like that you'd want a set of every strictly-better-than-basic land they've printed for every color. And that's bad.

Mogri
01-10-2012, 11:37 PM
Boo, Mogri didn't update round 7's scores :(

Sorry; who should've won? (And why can't I have my imaginary pretend victory?)

Red Hedgehog
01-11-2012, 07:39 PM
And to clarify, there's no banlist for this special round? (Except R&D's secret lab, of course)

Mr. J
01-11-2012, 07:44 PM
Well, my rationale was they can print lands with weak or conditional abilities (like Hammerheim (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=201242)) and give them the legendary supertype so they become a dead draw if you have too many of them.

That does make them an auto-include if you have one or two copies, though... So if they kept printing lands like that you'd want a set of every strictly-better-than-basic land they've printed for every color. And that's bad.

Build up of "strictly" better lands is not really a problem in eternal formats because you run basics to get around wasteland. The only ones that ever see play are pendelhaven in a small handful of elf decks and karakas as an answer to emrakul/iona.

Plus is modern you have bloodmoon to either worry about or abuse so you actually want some basics. Path is also a card so if you plan on running creatures you better have at least 2 or so basics in your deck, even in legacy.

Mogri
01-11-2012, 08:25 PM
And to clarify, there's no banlist for this special round? (Except R&D's secret lab, of course)

That's correct. Themed rounds run their own banlists, which means no banlist until we repeat a theme.

Mogri
01-13-2012, 02:17 PM
...Is it Friday already? Oops. I only just sent the decks to Alpha, so this time, I'll take the blame.

Mogri
01-14-2012, 09:47 AM
1. Arithon32
*Swamp*
Anowon, the Ruin Sage (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Anowon,+the+Ruin+Sage)
Bloodline Keeper (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Bloodline+Keeper)

2. ChainsawRepairman
*Cathodion (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Cathodion)*
Mishra's Workshop (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Mishra's+Workshop)
Trinisphere (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Trinisphere)

3. Destil
*Oriss, Samite Guardian (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Oriss,+Samite+Guardian)*
Scout's Warning (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Scout's+Warning)
Blacker Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Blacker+Lotus)

4. GyroNinja
*Adaptive Automaton (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Adaptive+Automaton)*
Mishra's Workshop (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Mishra's+Workshop)
Strip Mine (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Strip+Mine)

5. Jikkuryuu
*Strip Mine (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=202433)*
Terravore (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=29982)
Green Mana Battery (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=2046)

6. Mogri
*Typhoid Rats (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Typhoid+Rats)*
Cabal Therapy (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Cabal+Therapy)
Swamp

7. poetfox
*Force Spike (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=11285)*
Island
Dryad Arbor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=136196)

8. Red Hedgehog
*Blacker Lotus (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Blacker+Lotus)*
Glowrider (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Glowrider)
Leyline of Anticipation (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Leyline+of+Anticipation)

9. Seiryu
*Surging Flame (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Surging+Flame)*
Dwarven Ruins (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Dwarven+Ruins)
Strip Mine (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Strip+Mine)


X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
1| X 0 0 0 1 0 6 6 0|13
2| 6 X 1 0 0 4 3 0 6|20
3| 6 4 X 4 6 3 3 0 6|32
4| 6 6 1 X 0 6 6 6 6|31
5| 4 6 0 6 X 2 6 6 6|36
6| 6 1 3 0 2 X 1 0 0|13
7| 0 3 3 0 0 4 X 2 0|12
8| 0 6 6 0 0 6 2 X 2|22
9| 6 0 0 0 0 6 6 2 X|20

Final scores:
1. Jikkuryuu (5): 36
2. Destil (3): 32
3. GyroNinja (4): 31
4. Red Hedgehog (8): 22
5. ChainsawRepairman (2): 20
#. Seiryu (9): 20
7. Arithon32 (1): 13
#. Mogri (6): 13
9. poetfox (7): 12

MVP: Strip Mine
Recycling Award (recycled from last week): Red Hedgehog, ChainsawRepairman
Rats, Foiled Again Award: Mogri

Congratulations to Jikkuryuu! I really enjoyed this round and the variety of decks it brought. It was also a very close round, with the top player only pulling in three times the score of the bottom player.

Round 10 next week is standard. Check the top post for the banlist.

Alpha Werewolf
01-14-2012, 10:24 AM
Whoops, miscounted GyroNinja's score. It's 37.

I knew something was wrong, since I was pretty sure he won.

Red Hedgehog
01-14-2012, 10:36 AM
Wow, I completely metagamed wrong. I thought everyone would be going with "I win on turn 2" decks and thus made my choice. In retrospect, I should have played an "I win on turn 2" deck - would have done very well.

Also, I think I did better than I was supposed to.

I don't see how I beat Mogri since the Typhoid Rats just overwhelm me.

And I don't think I beat ChainsawRepairman either - Cathodian is a creature spell so he can still cast it.

Alpha Werewolf
01-14-2012, 10:46 AM
Yeah, I forgot that you tax only noncreature spells for some reason.


EDIT: Here's a format I just thought of:

Three Card Draft

Each player sends in a deck as usual. However, at the beginning of each game, the players pool their six cards and draft them, each taking one. The first player to pick is the player who is currently playing second.

GyroNinja
01-14-2012, 11:41 AM
Hold on, didn't Mogri say you can lose by decking? I don't think there should be any draws. For example, I think I should split 3/3 with Destil instead of 4/1; When he plays first, he can Oriss lock me out to attack for one 20 times in a row, but when I play first, I can drop automaton and just block forever until he decks himself.

ChainsawRepairman
01-14-2012, 02:03 PM
Oh yeah, that's right. I don't believe that would change the standings that much, but it would mean a lot of work for Alpha.

Jikkuryuu
01-14-2012, 02:26 PM
I was not expecting to do so well, but it sure is cool. Strip mine and Terravore have such a good synergy that spending the third card on the necessary green mana felt like a wasted opportunity.

This format is played with our hands open right? That makes Cabal Therapy a pretty amazing card. I'm a little surprised Mogri didn't do better with it.

Destil
01-14-2012, 02:42 PM
I suppose I sent in that third deck after the deadline, then?

GyroNinja
01-14-2012, 03:30 PM
I was not expecting to do so well, but it sure is cool. Strip mine and Terravore have such a good synergy that spending the third card on the necessary green mana felt like a wasted opportunity.

This format is played with our hands open right? That makes Cabal Therapy a pretty amazing card. I'm a little surprised Mogri didn't do better with it.

Honestly I think it was mostly just having a steady stream of strip mines. That's really tough to beat for a deck with a few lands and a stream of threats (like mine). I think you would have been better off using two colorless threats instead of Terravore though, or at least Coalition Relic (http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=209158), because seriously man, a mana battery? Is it 1996 again? :P.

Also it's interesting that I actually designed my deck thinking that the banned list was in effect (with Wasteland instead of Strip Mine), but it actually didn't matter much. A lot of the banned cards aren't... actually that good in this format, honestly. Most of the banned cards are either Black Lotus or cards that are designed to fight Lotus, and honestly Lotus is just worse than Mishra's Workshop here.

I had also considered Surging Flame, but it's dead to so many pieces of disruption, particularly Trinisphere, which I wasn't surprised to see. I also had a deck similar to Poetfox's, although it was (*Daze*/Island/Delver of Secrets) instead.

I think the most interesting deck this round was Destil's though, it has a hard time winning on the draw, but Oriss is not a card I'd thought of brainstorming for this round.

Destil
01-14-2012, 03:51 PM
I guess I submitted it too late, but after thinking about matches Oriss looses I came up with this:
*Linessa, Zephyr Mage (http://magiccards.info/fut/en/51.html)*
Blacker Lotus (http://magiccards.info/ug/en/70.html)
Force of Will (http://magiccards.info/ai/en/42.html)

Which I think is just flat out better. But I believe the best deck is actually the same as back in round one:
Chancellor of the Annex
Chancellor of the Forge
*Strip Mine*

Which I just haven't thought of any good answers for that aren't pure metagame (Flagstones of Trokair; Isamaru, Hound of Konda; *Plains*) and I think goes undefeated.

I like Seiryu's deck, personally. I was playing with ripple trying to win on my opponent's draw, but I couldn't find a way to get out Thrumming Stone and still have a slot left for a mill card.

I'm also surprised no one brought a stack of bolts or kindles.

Red Hedgehog
01-15-2012, 07:09 AM
Which I think is just flat out better. But I believe the best deck is actually the same as back in round one:
Chancellor of the Annex
Chancellor of the Forge
*Strip Mine*

Which I just haven't thought of any good answers for that aren't pure metagame (Flagstones of Trokair; Isamaru, Hound of Konda; *Plains*) and I think goes undefeated.

Yeah, unless someone is using Isamaru or their land as the repeated card this does really well. For some reason when looking through past decks, I totally dismissed it though I'm not sure why.

I like Seiryu's deck, personally. I was playing with ripple trying to win on my opponent's draw, but I couldn't find a way to get out Thrumming Stone and still have a slot left for a mill card.

I was surprised no one played a Gitaxian Probe / Storm deck - that was one of the Turn 2 win decks that I considered.

GyroNinja
01-15-2012, 07:51 AM
The least metagamy way I can think to beat that is to have Mishra's Workshop and a 2 drop artifact threat, like Porcelain legionnaire, but yeah, that deck would be pretty brutal.

Red Hedgehog
01-18-2012, 07:22 AM
Which I think is just flat out better. But I believe the best deck is actually the same as back in round one:
Chancellor of the Annex
Chancellor of the Forge
*Strip Mine*

I was really thinking there would be more combo decks with *Blacker Lotus* / Card / Card which would beat that deck. I mean, come on ~10-20 power creature on turn one? That would beat that.

I'm still wishing I'd gone with my *Gitaxian Probe* / Blacker Lotus / Empty the Warrens deck. Would have been a fun way to take advantage of the format. Or Storm Entity, but I think the potential for 22 goblins is better than the potential for an 11/11 with haste.

Mogri
01-19-2012, 03:49 PM
What do Destil, ChainsawRepairman, Arithon32, and Seiryu have in common?

They've submitted decks for round 10! Awesome! Don't you want to be just like them? Do it. Submit a deck today.

Red Hedgehog
01-19-2012, 06:02 PM
But... I haven't had any time to think about what will beat the field. Guess I could just go with Balance again...

Mogri
01-19-2012, 06:16 PM
But... I haven't had any time to think about what will beat the field.

You're thinking too hard about this! Do what I do: throw three good-looking cards together and see what happens.

(Caveat: I am not generally very successful)

Destil
01-19-2012, 06:26 PM
Damn it, that's what I'm doing wrong.

Morgi, Alpha. New Deck:
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/uh/107.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/uh/23.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/uh/3.jpg

(using _____ as an extra copy of OMRSTPLRLCNSWMTCTHTALCNEE, naturally)

ChainsawRepairman
01-19-2012, 06:39 PM
I think the trick to winning with balance in this format is somehow playing it off one land...

Also, I think that deck that got Braids out and still kept a threat was pretty keen. Shame it was in the "try to lose" round. And it used a lotus.