PDA

View Full Version : What the hell are you, Vinnie Paz.


BEAT
05-14-2012, 08:18 AM
Yes it's worth it's own thread. It's a forum threads about things should be the norm not the aberration.

I wanna ask people about one Vinnie Paz. He's been mentioned here and there in this fine community, and I just can't fucking figure him out.

On one hand he has a long, relatively successful career, has put out loads and loads of albums, has tons of people on his side project Army of the Pharaohs, and thousands of youtube comments saying that he's the hardest rawest most awesome thing ever.

On the other hand, his songs are overloaded with obvious punch-ins, he sounds kinda like an angry muppet, and looks a little like Chris Chan if you squint. Things (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzraUvroEjE) mocking (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BzLYvVf-hA) him (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBaU9JbFseQ&t=1m43s) could often pass the genuine item.

I keep thinking maybe the whole thing is just one giant hilarious joke. It would explain all the weird conspiracy theory shit, and the fact that his group is named after Star Wars, the downright silly voice and the fact all of his lines are exaggerated to the point of madness. But he's been at it for so long and nothing ever changes.

So yeah. What do you guys think?

christoffing
05-14-2012, 08:31 AM
Ugh this guy. I'm okay with Jedi Mind Tricks, but that "End of Days" song where he goes on about Skeletons on the Moon is the awfullest jam out there.

BEAT
05-14-2012, 08:46 AM
Yeah exactly! He is so completely out of his mind and honestly kind of terrible at rapping, and I have no idea how he can exist.

The Raider Dr. Jones
05-14-2012, 10:41 AM
Ugh this guy. I'm okay with Jedi Mind Tricks, but that "End of Days" song where he goes on about Skeletons on the Moon is the awfullest jam out there.

See, I have a weird fondness for that track. The Block McCloud hook is great and I think I have to love anything that starts off with like a half-minute sample of David Icke.

As to the larger question BEAT proposes, I have no real clear answers. I think part of it, at least, is that he somehow managed to have an awesome producer doing beats for him and only him over the four-five albums it took him to evolve into a halfway passable emcee. So you had people buying JMT records for Stoupe's beats and the feature verses even while Paz was just spitting the most godawful fucking crap on records like Violent By Design.

IMO, he actually becomes listenable on Legacy of Blood, if you like mean ugly northeast goon rap, which I'm not too proud to admit that I do sometimes. And by Servants in Heaven he cut out the gay-bashing trip entirely, which was a big improvement.

I didn't bother with Violence Begets Violence after it turned out to be just Paz and Jus Allah and a bunch of random producers instead of actually Jedi Mind Tricks, though. Was that any good?

BEAT
05-14-2012, 11:00 AM
Stoupe's beats are undeniably great, which is part of the mystery to me! The guy works serious talent all over the place, and I have no idea why they would even consider spending time with him. I guess he's really really good at maintaining friendships and organization? Maybe?

Violence begets Violence was the album that prompted this post primarily because I listened to it on the way up to Atlanta and was unable to find anything I would think of as a real reason to listen to it. And I'm ME, I consider hilarious badness one of the best reasons to like things!

The Raider Dr. Jones
05-14-2012, 11:08 AM
I guess he's really really good at maintaining friendships and organization? Maybe?

I figure that's a lot of it. You look at something like the AOTP records and that is obviously the product of a dude who is good at networking. And hell, I appreciate that, I first heard a bunch of guys I like on the Torture Papers album.

BEAT
05-14-2012, 11:14 AM
I figure that's a lot of it. You look at something like the AOTP records and that is obviously the product of a dude who is good at networking. And hell, I appreciate that, I first heard a bunch of guys I like on the Torture Papers album.

Oh me too! He has introduced me to a lot of things I totally love!

On the topic of his evolving, I'm not really sure if I agree with the notion that he's gotten better. I have a weird fondness for I who have nothing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5o5PqXc9N0) because it had something resembling an actual message, no meaningless babble about how he's hilariously evil, and no really really obvious editing, something everything I've seen from him lately has in spades. I'm not saying you're wrong though! I would just like you to delve a little further into how you think he's improved.

Also I could swear to god he threw this amazingly awful freestyle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFmN6IoVWU8) on an actual album somewhere. I can't find the song it's on anywhere so maybe I just imagined it, but if I'm not wrong and he actually did that, it's the epitome of lazy.

Stephen
05-14-2012, 04:32 PM
He has a unique voice. Maybe that's it?

Honestly, I don't get it either. I picked up Servants in Heaven, Kings in Hell in '06 and it seemed puerile and goofy. The song about Vietman was borderline embarrassing, like he had just watched Full Metal Jacket and wrote a song about that. I also can't stand to hear the word "faggot" tossed around so loosely. I think I would have liked his enraged muppet style when I was 14, but most of the hip hop I listen to these days is upbeat stuff in the Tribe Called Quest and De la Soul vein.

Also I could swear to god he threw this amazingly awful freestyle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFmN6IoVWU8) on an actual album somewhere. I can't find the song it's on anywhere so maybe I just imagined it, but if I'm not wrong and he actually did that, it's the epitome of lazy.

That's awful. Do we have a thread for good freestyle? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YWKsqpeiKA)

BEAT
05-14-2012, 05:26 PM
No lie, I completely love RA's verse (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGZsGX3B_BY) on Uncommon Valor (The Vietnam Song).

Vinnie's though... well it's exactly what you said.

The Raider Dr. Jones
05-15-2012, 02:48 PM
On the topic of his evolving, I'm not really sure if I agree with the notion that he's gotten better. I have a weird fondness for I who have nothing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5o5PqXc9N0) because it had something resembling an actual message, no meaningless babble about how he's hilariously evil, and no really really obvious editing, something everything I've seen from him lately has in spades.

Like I say, a lot of it has to do with I like his dumb thug bravado shit sometimes. It appeals to the same side of me that likes DMX. What can I say, I'm a bad person. (The advantage to being a bad person is that, by nature, you don't feel bad about it.) By Legacy of Blood and Servants in Heaven he's got his flow smoothed out, he can follow a beat consistently, he's cutting down on the horrible gay-bashing non sequiturs. A lot of that is surely on account of he got better at making up for his shortcomings in the studio.

I agree with you about some of the stuff like that on the Psycho-Social LP, though. It's a weird one to judge because it's a pretty ambitious record made essentially by a bunch of high-school kids (I think Apathy was like 17 years old at the time). So it's amateurish in some ways but at the same time it's a bunch of dudes really trying to say something.

I'm not meaning to oversell my fondness for the guy, though. Probably the best recording we could ever get out of Jedi Mind Tricks would be a Stoupe instrumentals album.

BEAT
05-16-2012, 06:39 AM
Like I say, a lot of it has to do with I like his dumb thug bravado shit sometimes. It appeals to the same side of me that likes DMX. What can I say, I'm a bad person.
...
I'm not meaning to oversell my fondness for the guy, though.Sir, if loving dumb thug bravado shit is wrong then I DON'T WANT TO BE RIGHT.

If there is any one thing to take away from this thread it is that I profoundly love Vinnie Paz, JMT, and Northeast Goon Rap without a hint of irony.

The Raider Dr. Jones
05-05-2015, 06:20 PM
so Paz is still Paz for good or ill but Stoupe's beat on the new JMT track is fucking thunderous.