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thomp538
06-11-2007, 03:55 PM
I was looking over the comments for the Chrono Trigger post on the main site and the first one mentioned FFVIII and how you can get Diablos and turn off random battles because you get stronger through magic. My first reaction was, what the...

But this was a game I really got bogged down with, I played almost to the end without really grasping the system well. I made it to that place where you climb up the chain to the last area and I totally was overmatched at that point and it seemed like I couldn't go back and right whatever wrongs I did in leading up to having totally underdeveloped characters. Needless to say the system in that game was total confusion for me.

I'd like to go back and revisit the game though and I was wondering if someone could explain to me what the strategy should be for tackling that game. From drawing magic, to Guardian Forces to getting the right accessories to level up your weapon etc. Anyone?

Sanagi
06-11-2007, 04:01 PM
Ignore levels, they are irrelevant. Learn useful abilities. Abuse limit breaks. Refine magic from items and cards. It's a very easy game if you know what you're doing.

I loved FF8 because it was so different, and any RPG that lets the player decide what abilities to learn gets high marks from me. Going through the storyline could be a chore at times, but that's true of almost every RPG.

Encounter-None was great, too.. FF5 desperately needs that ability.

Guy
06-11-2007, 04:06 PM
Don't ignore the Card game. Once you have the Card Mod ability you can turn the cards into some crazy useful items, and there's also an ability to turn enemies into cards, so you don't necessarily need to even play the card game (but it's fun, so that shouldn't be an issue). In fact, make sure you learn every Item Refine ability possible.

alexb
06-11-2007, 04:21 PM
Pick up a FAQ. Otherwise, you'll never find the stuff you need to improve your weapons.

Chu
06-11-2007, 05:05 PM
If you follow my friend's strategy, all you have to do is draw ridiculous amounts of the right kind of magic and give them all to Squall. Find out from a FAQ what the most useful magic is for each stat and you're on your way to making a Squall that can take the last boss of the game single-handedly. No kidding- I've seen it. He could do max damage to just about everything, could absorb a whole lot of magic, and had the Recover ability. The other characters were literally nothing but a hindrance, as they only made fights last longer. It was ludicrous.

That said, I think the story and characters of FF8 are complete crap (except for Laguna. I'm a sucker for lovable goofballs). At least everything else is pretty nice.

Kolbe
06-11-2007, 05:09 PM
3 hours into the game and didn't catch my attention. Does it get better?

alexb
06-11-2007, 05:19 PM
Yeah. Depending on what you like. The highlight of my play experience was after the first Laguna interlude, when Squall says "I dreamed I was an idiot."

Peach
06-11-2007, 05:35 PM
I enjoyed Final Fantasy VIII. I like depth in both my gameplay and worlds - and VIII had both. Also, it didn't hurt that my youthful enthusiasm (and a good strategy guide) helped me look past some of the flaws in the gameplay and characters. At least until I finish XII and VI, VIII will remain my favorite entry in the series.

As for difficulty, I started grinding immediately, maxing out all the available magic right away, and setting a precedent for the rest of my playthrough. I walked over the final boss by - if I remember correctly - winning the Gilgamesh card from the Balamb Card King, converting it too 100 Holy Wars and spamming Limit Breaks for the entire battle. Proving that Gilgamesh is awesome regardless of form or game.

alexb
06-11-2007, 06:08 PM
That seems like a lot of work. I just made Lionheart and kept Squall in a near-death state so that he could spam his limit breaks on the last boss.

Jakanden
06-11-2007, 06:20 PM
3 hours into the game and didn't catch my attention. Does it get better?

I personally can never make it past about halfway through Disc 2 and I have tried about 4 times so I say no. This is one of the only FF's I haven't completed (the other being FF II).

Savathun
06-11-2007, 06:38 PM
The card game is fun, except for the way you can catch and spread really lame rules like STDs, until every card player in the world is infected and you can't find a decent game anymore.

Torgo
06-11-2007, 06:58 PM
What Brandon said. Some of the more archaic rules that are added later in the game are totally lame.

Other then that, FFVIII is an excessively 'eh' experience. It used to be my most reviled game of all time until I got over myself and decided that rather then being the most foul piece of garbage ever burned to disc, it merely wasn't all that great.

Squall is Cloud minus the character development. At least, he was until Advent Children, which pretty much puts them back on the same level I'm told.

Some of the music is pretty darn good though.

Coinspinner
06-11-2007, 07:05 PM
The secret of Final Fantasy VIII is to play cards sometimes. Learn card mod, the other refine abilities, equip "encounter none", and use Triple Triad as a replacement for random battles. Win cards, mod them, refine them into spells, refine spells into better spells, and Junction them to "level up". The "Switch" option in the party menu (or was it junction menu?) moves all magic, GFs, and junctions between two characters which lets you create these "meta characters" that you apply to whoever you're currently using while the others act as a sort of bank for excess spells.

Played like that, the broken gameplay becomes sorta fun. If I didn't find the story so bad I'd probably like the game.

Kishi
06-11-2007, 07:14 PM
I bet FFVIII is a lot more fun if you pretend that Triple Triad is the main game and the whole offensively bad RPG part is just a mini-game you only play to get more cards.

Torgo
06-11-2007, 07:16 PM
It's pretty much why I stuck to playing my friend's saves.

"Hey yeah, you need to get that card? I'll give it a shot!"

mr_bungle700
06-11-2007, 07:27 PM
I just don't know what to think about FFVIII. If you play it right it can apparently be a pretty enjoyable game, but the fact that you have to break it in order to make it work properly kind of rubs me the wrong way.

I know this seems weird if you consider the fact that I love to break games, but generally I like games that are fun to play on their own before I try and mess with them.

Evil Dead Junkie
06-11-2007, 07:49 PM
God I hate this game. Truth in critism there are a few cool parts, the opening invasion, some cool cinemas, the battle between the "schools", the assasination, and um ah ooohh....

Downloading Magic sucks, not being able to buy weapons and armor sucks, the card games suck, the characters suck, the whole Laguna thing sucks, the story sucks.

The worse part was probably the villian. I mean thats c'mon thats half the reason you play an FF game for the fascinating complex villian. I forget the name of the chick in FF8 but God she was awful. She shows up out of no where in the last battle yells "Prepare to die SEEBS" (Aw shit I screwed up my line) and dies. And if anyone even brings up Seifer I'm going to have to go get my Walking Tall Beatdown stick.

She makes Ex Death look like Kefka.

Nerd cred points: When I played the game I didn't know you could Boost your summons, more or less the foundation of the battle system, and I beat the whole game without doing it once.

cartman414
06-11-2007, 07:54 PM
I just don't know what to think about FFVIII. If you play it right it can apparently be a pretty enjoyable game, but the fact that you have to break it in order to make it work properly kind of rubs me the wrong way.

I know this seems weird if you consider the fact that I love to break games, but generally I like games that are fun to play on their own before I try and mess with them.

I understand and feel the same way. Junctioning 100 Haste to Speed for your characters alone will make them faster than fast.

alexb
06-11-2007, 08:01 PM
I just had a pleasant thought. Well, not really. Anybody remember Eden?

Jeanie
06-11-2007, 08:01 PM
Oh wow, the polarizing PS1 FF. Honestly, I kinda like this one. For one, it was the only FF on the PS1 that I ever beat (yeah never beat FF7, that's my secret shame), two, I liked the story line better than I did VII's, though still not as good as VI. I remember using the Expert Gamer walkthrough to abuse the system. *Edit* oh yeah Haste Spell went on the speed stat, Ultima on hp, or something like that. Kept everyone, especially Squall, at around 1/4 health (when the text is yellow or slightly above that sometimes) to spam the triangle button to bring up the Limit Breaks for every attack. Pretty freaking cheesy I know.

Also what the freak was the deal with the Eden GF. Besides the breaks the 9999 damage limit, I still to this day have no idea what that was.

Keep a save on Disc 3 before you go to last dungeon on that disc. In Disc 4, all the towns are blocked off, so if you need to gear up you need to use the GF shops.

The card game in this one was probably the best time suck mini game in all the FF's. Especially compared to Drownball...er Blitzball from FFX.

Savathun
06-11-2007, 08:03 PM
I really kind of loved FF8. It didn't have the kind of story or gameplay I had expected, but I have lots of good memories of the whole thing. Even the goofy junctioning.

On the other hand, I wasn't overly impressed with FF9, so I might just be the anti-Final Fantasy fan.

Squall
06-11-2007, 08:34 PM
The proper way to play FF8 is to kill Squall at the beginning of the game and leave him that way until the last boss. Due to my well-publsized views on the game, I rushed through it as fast as possible with Squall mostly alive. Thus, at the end, he was level 24 and every other party member was 14 or so. The last boss mauled me. I actually had to use a friend's save file to beat the game.

Guy
06-11-2007, 08:39 PM
Oh, cool tip in case anyone doesn't know it already: Zell's Limit Break does a shit TON of damage if you ignore all of the big attacks and just alternate between Punch Rush and Booya. They only require two button presses each, and since they never trigger any other moves you can keep doing it until time runs out (and since it requires less than half a second to do do either move, that could be awhile). You can seriously do even more damage than Squall's Lionheart limit break with this technique. I've think I've even killed bosses with Zell single-handedly this way.

Squall
06-11-2007, 09:00 PM
Yes, but then you'd have to use Zell....
Although I suppose it's like picking the cool kid on the short bus when choosing an FF8 party.
Caution! I may be biased.

Guy
06-11-2007, 09:14 PM
Hey, Zell is great. Plus, he's the only character in the game that isn't emo, useless, or Selphie.

gamin
06-11-2007, 09:16 PM
Okay, okay, I get it. The internets hate FFVIII. Fine. Be that way.

I actually liked it. Not just the gameplay, but part of the story, as well. Yeah, the final villian sucks. Seifer sucks. Really, much of the plotting of the game sucks.

Story isn't just plot, however. I thought Squall was an interesting character, in that his growth is not just some revelatory moment like so many other FFs, but is instead a very gradual process forward. I liked the big ideas in FFVIII. The whole time paradox thing was a clever way to make Squall the hero, as much as he didn't want to. That his actions in the future literally force him to let go of his self absorbed nature and fight for others was pretty cool I thought.

As far as advice, don't spread your magic thin--just have magic and junctioning for 3 people and just switch it all over when you have to change members. Try and use Limits more then GFs--much less annoying and better damage. There's a spell, Aura to get instant limits. If you get Lionheart, Squall's ultimate Limit Break, that makes the rest of the game a complete cakewalk.

chocogaz
06-11-2007, 09:18 PM
No sir, I didn't like it.

blitzchamp
06-11-2007, 09:29 PM
I'm playing FFVIII right now and the Junction system frustrates the CRAP out of me. I keep having to hit reset because I forget to save and then I end up switching characters and get thrown into a boss battle without any GF's equipped. :mad:

blitzchamp
06-11-2007, 09:34 PM
Some of the music is pretty darn good though.

I agree. Some areas were catchy and I stuck around even though I probably could have moved on faster. THEN some areas music just sucked and those were the areas I got lost in and ran around in circles for like thirty minutes...

Kishi
06-11-2007, 09:34 PM
Story isn't just plot, however. I thought Squall was an interesting character, in that his growth is not just some revelatory moment like so many other FFs, but is instead a very gradual process forward.

So, uh, what about when Rinoa falls into a coma and he suddenly decides that he not only doesn't find her annoying anymore, but is actually completely in love with her?

Peach
06-11-2007, 09:36 PM
Did anyone put enough effort into the game to beat Omega Weapon? From my understanding, he's more or less the Yiazmat of FFVIII.

Evil Dead Junkie
06-11-2007, 09:38 PM
As far as the music goes the fact that their are no character themes more or less negates any value it might have.

Guy
06-11-2007, 09:40 PM
So, uh, what about when Rinoa falls into a coma and he suddenly decides that he not only doesn't find her annoying anymore, but is actually completely in love with her?

He actually loved her the whole time, he just acted like a dick to drive her away so he wouldn't have to open up (because he was a pussy). When she fell into a coma, the prospect of losing her forever drove him to come to terms with his true feelings (stop being a pussy).

Eusis
06-11-2007, 09:41 PM
Yeah, I figured it was also kinda the whole 'don't realize what you have until you lose it' thing.

alexb
06-11-2007, 10:15 PM
I still can't decide if the whole "two kids making good on the doomed love of their (unrelated) parents" angle is sweet or creepy.

Squall
06-11-2007, 10:29 PM
Woot for bad writing!

Torgo
06-11-2007, 10:40 PM
As far as the music goes the fact that their are no character themes more or less negates any value it might have.
The Man with the Machine Gun, yo. It also doubles as evidence that Uematsu secretly loves Mega Man X music.

spineshark
06-11-2007, 10:45 PM
Haven't played FFVIII, but I probably will sometime because a friend has pestered me for years about it.

Stray comments..
Encounter-None was great, too.. FF5 desperately needs that ability.
Did they fix the thing where opening the menu resets the overworld step counter for Advance?

As far as the music goes the fact that their are no character themes more or less negates any value it might have.
I don't get why everybody likes character themes. Instead of using unique music at different times, it's just sorta like "HAY GUYZ ITS FROG" or whatever.

gamin
06-11-2007, 10:56 PM
The Man with the Machine Gun, yo. It also doubles as evidence that Uematsu secretly loves Mega Man X music.

Great track--ever hear the symphonic version? It manages to translate surprisingly well to orchestra. The strings build up the rhythm beautifully. And the horns! Good stuff.

alexb
06-11-2007, 11:10 PM
Leitmotifs kick ass. Take Locke's theme from FFVI. It's his heroic theme for when he comes in to save the day. But put it in minor key and you've got Forever Rachel, which is all about the day he failed to be a hero and what that cost him. And then, in the ending, Celes's theme flows smoothly into his and their two themes play at the same time, in harmony. Which of course symbolizes the fact that they've both worked through their issues and can finally connect completely. If they'd had something in FF8 where Laguna, Squall, Rinoa, and Julia each had themes that complemented each other in some way, it would have added a lot of dimension to the story and help play up the intergenerational love story.

Spikey
06-11-2007, 11:16 PM
This (http://fromearth.net/LetsPlay/FF8/chapter1-1.html) contains everything you need to know about FFVIII.

admozan
06-11-2007, 11:41 PM
I once worked with a woman who looked exactly like Quistis. No whip, though.

Nicholai
06-12-2007, 07:40 AM
God I hate this game. Truth in critism there are a few cool parts, the opening invasion, some cool cinemas, the battle between the "schools", the assasination, and um ah ooohh....

Downloading Magic sucks, not being able to buy weapons and armor sucks, the card games suck, the characters suck, the whole Laguna thing sucks, the story sucks.

The worse part was probably the villian. I mean thats c'mon thats half the reason you play an FF game for the fascinating complex villian. I forget the name of the chick in FF8 but God she was awful. She shows up out of no where in the last battle yells "Prepare to die SEEBS" (Aw shit I screwed up my line) and dies. And if anyone even brings up Seifer I'm going to have to go get my Walking Tall Beatdown stick.

She makes Ex Death look like Kefka.


While I'm one of "those people" who enjoy FFVIII, I have to heartily disagree with the contention about villains being a reason to play an FF game. That the final villain sucks in VIII isn't all that surprising as the final villains can only be considered good "complex" villains in VI and, perhaps depending on your level of love, VII. Kefka, while extremely cool and evil, is not what you'd call complex and Sephiroth is so dense that a huge percentage of players probably have no idea what he was spouting off about in his semi-philosophical diatribes.

Beyond VI and VII the villains in earlier FFs, admittedly the games themselves are a bit rough, are as all about the same anyway. I don't know much about the villains of II and III, but I don't think complexity was all that important. As for later FFs IX has the old-school feel of having an actual villain, Kuja, who gets tossed aside for a semi-personification of evil and death (hello IV and V). X has a nameless monster who turns out to be somewhat more interesting in the last moments, and XII makes the attempt at a character in Vayne but you can argue about how important a story was to XII anyway.

To me, while the gameplay leaves much to be desired, VIII is remarkable for its storyline and characters. Not everything is gold, but many of the scenes, both in-game and cinematics, are memorable and while some would disagree the characters of Squall and Rinoa and their relationship is memorable. Laguna and his group too were great from a storytelling point of view. VIII remains my favorite of the FFs (and for those who may wonder I'm not one of the people who started playing FF on PSX as I had bought FF1 for NES and had both II and III for SNES and enjoyed them greatly).

Trent Dole
06-12-2007, 07:43 AM
Grandia was better.

djSyndrome
06-12-2007, 07:58 AM
Fun fact: after three playthroughs over the years, I have yet to witness the "Game Over" screen for this game. Does it even have one?

bobservo
06-12-2007, 08:09 AM
I played through FFVIII as if it were a regular RPG back in 1999, and I had no problems.

Coinspinner
06-12-2007, 09:48 AM
He actually loved her the whole time, he just acted like a dick to drive her away so he wouldn't have to open up (because he was a pussy). When she fell into a coma, the prospect of losing her forever drove him to come to terms with his true feelings (stop being a pussy).

Wow. All these years and I never would have guessed. Bad writing indeed.

How did you come to that conclusion?

Balrog
06-12-2007, 09:53 AM
Final Fantasy Tactics is the only good Final Fantasy game on the ps1. FFVII, FFVIII, and FFIX, you are dead to me.

Kirin
06-12-2007, 10:00 AM
The main problem I ran into playing FFVIII is that I more or less accidentally got Squall to level 99 while collecting ingredients to make ultimate weapons, and the difficulty took a huge jump. I never liked parallel leveling much in the first place, but making the enemies spike up on hitting max level just seemed kind of cruel. I barely beat the game, and Omega was just freakin' ridiculous.

Other than that, meh, it was ok. The junction system was interesting, but I didn't think it was actually that much fun in practice. Same for all the mucking about with cards and refining. I probably handicapped myself in the refining system, though, because I hate "using stuff up", so I'd be reluctant to chop up rare cards, etc.

Keeping Squall on almost-dead limit break duty is the ultimate cheese; I mainly kept it in reserve for more tedious tasks like killing tonberries.

reibeatall
06-12-2007, 10:05 AM
I stopped playing during that 10 minute love song while floating in space on a ship that should have been cooler than it was.

poetfox
06-12-2007, 10:27 AM
A friend of mine swears by FFVIII, but I'm not one to.
I was incredibly incredibly excited when I noticed there was a card game attached online with the FFXI my brother was buying... and then saddened when it was Tetra Master instead of Triple Triad. Triple Triad was a good card game, dammit.
The only other part of FFVIII that always sticks in my mind is "And Rinoa was lost in space forever... Try Again?"

thomp538
06-12-2007, 10:29 AM
Final Fantasy IX was teh awesome, but thats not why we're here.

So from most of your accounts you have to play the game in a way that was not intended in order to get through it pretty easily. Unless of course you are a total RPG master and just intuitively do the right things the first time in the ordetr that the designers laid out and fully intended. But to me, the game seems horribly broken.

I'd still like to tackle the game again, but I hate it when you have to consult a FAQ just to playthrough the game, I'm not talking about unlocking all of the hidden secrets. I also fell victim to 4th disk and didn't get all of the right stuff during the course of the game syndrome.

As far as the PS1 FF games, I didn't finish FFVII VIII or Tactics. VII I basically got to the beginning of the third disk and lost interest. VIII I explained that I got to the final section and just was totally pwned. And in tactics I am horribly stuck for eternity on this one stage that I have played about 50 times and cannot beat, and I cannot go back and level my characters, so I basically have to start over on that one. FFIX began my string of finishing FF games again, which I continued with FFX.

reibeatall
06-12-2007, 10:50 AM
This (http://fromearth.net/LetsPlay/FF8/chapter1-1.html) contains everything you need to know about FFVIII.

I love you.

R^2
06-12-2007, 10:58 AM
I only really "got" FFVIII on my third playthrough, I think. The whole thing was WHAT THE SHIT IS THAT TOWER WHY ARE THERE MONSTERS FALLING FROM THE MOON WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON. The whole "Guardian Forces make us lose our memory, including that convenient plot device, lol!" thing came out of the blue, too.

Then on subsequent playthroughs I was a bit more thorough. Turns out the Help file has basically an entire fucking Encyclopedia on the game that helps a bit -- the giant flying fortress is Lunatic Pandora. Got it. *crossreference* It's called that because it houses the Crystal Whateverthefuck, which when lined up with a specific spot on the earth, causes the Lunar Cry. *crossreference* The Lunar Cry is when all the creatures on the moon -- monsters, not native to the planet itself -- curl up in one big gooey ball and splooge themselves all over the planet.

Laguna was part of the crew who was supposed to be excavating it, then? So that Galbadia -- who are bad, because they have Bad in their name -- could flood the planet's surface with monsters in order to knock Edel down from her orbital prison. And then...

Well, and then things fall apart, really.

Turns out there's even someone or something that tells you GFs are controversial because they're theorized to cause memory loss, too. Whaddyaknow.

Kishi
06-12-2007, 11:18 AM
Fun fact: after three playthroughs over the years, I have yet to witness the "Game Over" screen for this game. Does it even have one?

I saw it once. I think it has an image of a broken gunblade, and it's one of only two places--the other being the very end of the game--where a little bit of "Prelude" plays.

sraymonds
06-12-2007, 11:19 AM
I really liked FFVII. It's one of the only IV FF games that I've ever beaten. I like VII also, but gameplay-wise I think VIII trumps VII. I preferred the story, though I'm fairly certain I didn't understand it most of the time. It's been a long time. Also, Cloud's a jerk.

And Triple Triad rocked.

alexb
06-12-2007, 11:38 AM
You know, the gunblade has always bothered me. It's just such a stupid fucking design. First of all, the entire idea of pulling a trigger to do more damage with what is basically an oversized machete makes no sense. How would that even work? I guess it makes the gunblade jump or something because of an internal explosion? That would be pretty unpredictable and could lead to losing control of the weapon. And I imagine it would be murder of the hands of the user having to absorb all the shock from the firing. But even if you were to ignore that feature, the general ergonomics of the weapon are abhorrent. The gunblade looks incredibly front heavy and unbalanced. Not to mention very thick and heavy to begin with. Couple that with the curved revolver-style handle, and you have something that's clumsy and destructive to your wrists. Now, going back to the whole internal explosions thing from before, what you have is a weapon you could break your own wrists with if you were holding it in a stress position when you pulled the trigger. How heroic. How well thought out.

thomp538
06-12-2007, 11:40 AM
I just always had a horrible time getting the timing down to pull off the "fire gun while swipe" move anyways. It seems there is a tiny window for you to pull the trigger.

sraymonds
06-12-2007, 11:45 AM
Maybe it actually shoots out a bullet.

alexb
06-12-2007, 11:50 AM
Then why swing the damn thing and ruin your aim? Besides, there's no barrel for a bullet to come out of, though there is a chamber, for some reason. It's another "Wow, I think this would be cool and I'm pretty fucking ignorant" design from Zippers.

Jeanie
06-12-2007, 11:51 AM
You know, the gunblade has always bothered me. It's just such a stupid fucking design. First of all, the entire idea of pulling a trigger to do more damage with what is basically an oversized machete makes no sense. How would that even work? I guess it makes the gunblade jump or something because of an internal explosion? That would be pretty unpredictable and could lead to losing control of the weapon. And I imagine it would be murder of the hands of the user having to absorb all the shock from the firing. But even if you were to ignore that feature, the general ergonomics of the weapon are abhorrent. The gunblade looks incredibly front heavy and unbalanced. Not to mention very thick and heavy to begin with. Couple that with the curved revolver-style handle, and you have something that's clumsy and destructive to your wrists. Now, going back to the whole internal explosions thing from before, what you have is a weapon you could break your own wrists with if you were holding it in a stress position when you pulled the trigger. How heroic. How well thought out.

As compared to weilding a sword bigger than you or the way women's armor seems to protect more the less it covers? Or the way Irvine can rapid fire like a mofo and always hit?

Dude it's fantasy, it's gonna have crap that is impossible in real life. Besides maybe thats why there where only two Gunblade wielders in the whole damn world, three if you count Aya in PE2.

And I don't think it shoots a bullet as where the barrel would come end is covered by a freakishly huge blade.

alexb
06-12-2007, 11:57 AM
As compared to weilding a sword bigger than you or the way women's armor seems to protect more the less it covers? Or the way Irvine can rapid fire like a mofo and always hit?

Dude it's fantasy, it's gonna have crap that is impossible in real life. Besides maybe thats why there where only two Gunblade wielders in the whole damn world, three if you count Aya in PE2.

And I don't think it shoots a bullet as where the barrel would come end is covered by a freakishly huge blade.

As far as Cloud goes, I understand that. He ripped it off part and parcel from Guts in Berserk. It doesn't make sense because it was a trait not designed for the character. It's lazy, but it's not bad original design. And Irvine hitting everything no matter how quickly he draws and fires? Well, that's part of the established mythology of the gunslinger. Same as samurai cutting through steel and bullets. But the difference is that these older traits are exaggerations of things that actually were. They're not badly considered outright impossibilities. You don't have to completely turn off your brain and throw out logic to suspend disbelief.

Also, Seifer and Squall were not the only people using gunblades. The Galbadian soldiers used them, too.

Jeanie
06-12-2007, 12:02 PM
Also, Seifer and Squall were not the only people using gunblades. The Galbadian soldiers used them, too.

They did? I thought they used an ordinary rifle with a bayonet on the end.

alexb
06-12-2007, 12:05 PM
Some had guns and some had blades. As I remember it, anyway. It has been a while, though. Anyone played it more recently?

ozacrot
06-12-2007, 12:15 PM
Basically when people talk about the worst twist in plots being the Star Ocean 3 debacle, they're forcibly blocking out that everybody in this game grew up together but conveniently forgot that they're orphans fighting their matron.

And that's why I never finished.

alexb
06-12-2007, 12:20 PM
Dude, FF8 is nearly 8 years old. If someone hasn't played it by now, that's their problem. It's too old to have spoiler warnings. Anyway, I could better accept that plot twist because it had been cleverly foreshadowed. That's the entire reason Irvine, a trained sniper, couldn't do the job when he was supposed to make a Pollock out of Edea's gray matter. He hadn't been using GFs, so he still remembered everything. It was still pretty weak that he decided to roll with it when nobody remembered him, but it was a lot easier to choke down than the twist in SO3.

Savathun
06-12-2007, 12:58 PM
I played the game again about a year ago, and I *think* but I'm not sure, that pulling the trigger on the gunblade makes it catch fire momentarily or something silly. I'm pretty sure it involved fire in some inexplicable way.

I do like the idea of the GFs causing forgetfullness, though, because it opens up all kinds of possibilities for Ultimecia. I still agree with the people who think she is Rinoa in the future. She wouldn't remember Squall or even herself in the past because it's been so long and she's apparently been spending a lot of personal time with Griever (you don't just junction yourself unto things unless you've got some history with them, I suspect).

philliam
06-12-2007, 01:17 PM
http://fromearth.net/LetsPlay/FF8/Update%201-18/ePSXe%202006-04-19%2015-51-53-64.jpg

alexb
06-12-2007, 01:42 PM
I still agree with the people who think she is Rinoa in the future. She wouldn't remember Squall or even herself in the past because it's been so long and she's apparently been spending a lot of personal time with Griever (you don't just junction yourself unto things unless you've got some history with them, I suspect).

Yes, but why did she start talking like a dollar store version of the Baroness from G.I. Joe?

Savathun
06-12-2007, 01:47 PM
Maybe it was a subtle hint by the writers/translators to indicate that she was a pretty generic villain.

Oh, Philliam. "I will junction myself unto your ass!"

thomp538
06-12-2007, 01:58 PM
Then why swing the damn thing and ruin your aim? Besides, there's no barrel for a bullet to come out of, though there is a chamber, for some reason. It's another "Wow, I think this would be cool and I'm pretty fucking ignorant" design from Zippers.
It makes no sense, like magic and cactaurs.

Kishi
06-12-2007, 02:10 PM
I still agree with the people who think she is Rinoa in the future. She wouldn't remember Squall or even herself in the past because it's been so long and she's apparently been spending a lot of personal time with Griever (you don't just junction yourself unto things unless you've got some history with them, I suspect).

Oh, god. No. Bad Brandon.

Torgo
06-12-2007, 02:12 PM
I still agree with the people who think she is Rinoa in the future.
Now, not that I care, but without knowing the intricacies of the plot, is there even anything in-game that substantiates or hints at this? Because it almost sounds like Mega Man X fanfic territory.

R^2
06-12-2007, 02:15 PM
I don't think there is, and Rinoa talks about Ultimecia as another person a couple times. I think it's in the realms of "The game would have a much more satisfying conclusion if this were the case, and there's nothing explicitly saying it's not".

Torgo
06-12-2007, 02:23 PM
'More satisfying' must be subjective then, because that would've given it the lamest ending this side of Chrono Cross.

Savathun
06-12-2007, 02:26 PM
Yeah, there's really no reason to believe it's the case, I just like to think it is.

estragon
06-12-2007, 03:12 PM
Yeah, there's really no reason to believe it's the case, I just like to think it is.

For more analysis than anyone would ever want to read about this theory, check out this FAQ:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197343/34215

But, yeah, basically the conclusion is that while there is nothing in the game that makes it a completely impossible theory, there's also nothing that really suggests that it's true.

But, really, whenever you analyze the plot in a game where the main villian is trying to start some sort of vaguely defined Time Compression, everybody loses.

Guy
06-12-2007, 04:11 PM
You know, the gunblade has always bothered me. It's just such a stupid fucking design. First of all, the entire idea of pulling a trigger to do more damage with what is basically an oversized machete makes no sense. How would that even work? I guess it makes the gunblade jump or something because of an internal explosion? That would be pretty unpredictable and could lead to losing control of the weapon. And I imagine it would be murder of the hands of the user having to absorb all the shock from the firing. But even if you were to ignore that feature, the general ergonomics of the weapon are abhorrent. The gunblade looks incredibly front heavy and unbalanced. Not to mention very thick and heavy to begin with. Couple that with the curved revolver-style handle, and you have something that's clumsy and destructive to your wrists. Now, going back to the whole internal explosions thing from before, what you have is a weapon you could break your own wrists with if you were holding it in a stress position when you pulled the trigger. How heroic. How well thought out.

I actually have a very interesting theory on the subject: That Final Fantasy VIII is a video game, and any speculation as to how the technology within the story functions is inherently retarded. Because it's a video game.

Sanagi
06-12-2007, 05:13 PM
Fun fact: after three playthroughs over the years, I have yet to witness the "Game Over" screen for this game. Does it even have one?
I do love FF8 but I have to admit it's the easiest game I've ever played that doesn't say "for ages 3+" on the cover.

Final Fantasy Tactics is the only good Final Fantasy game on the ps1. FFVII, FFVIII, and FFIX, you are dead to me.
FF7 is actually a lot more fun if you use a gameshark to start out with all the interesting materia like added cut, sneak attack, HP absorb, etc. Which is kind of pathetic. I absolutely wouldn't play through the game again without doing it, though.

alexb
06-12-2007, 05:14 PM
I actually have a very interesting theory on the subject: That Final Fantasy VIII is a video game, and any speculation as to how the technology within the story functions is inherently retarded. Because it's a video game.

Wow. You're such a clever and ironic hipster. Where would we be without you adding to the conversation with your well reasoned and insightful commentary? And thanks for the insult, too, cool guy. Listen, a well told story isn't going to have to fall back on horseshit like "Who cares? It's a video game." But then what do I know? I'm apparently inherently retarded.

Torgo
06-12-2007, 05:21 PM
FF7 is actually a lot more fun if you use a gameshark to start out with all the interesting materia like added cut, sneak attack, HP absorb, etc. Which is kind of pathetic. I absolutely wouldn't play through the game again without doing it, though.
I didn't get thought it my first time without Sharking it.

Then again, that had more to do with the fact that I was attempting to play at friends' houses, I would get halfway through the first disc, and someone would accidentally erase my save. This happened two or three times (with different friends who didn't even know each other) before I said 'screw it' and blasted through the game with quick level gain.

Savathun
06-12-2007, 05:22 PM
Yeah, I don't really see a problem discussing things like weapon technology. I mean, it doesn't matter, but this is the gaming section, so there's no harm talking about obscure things like that.

Besides, if anyone's retarded, it's me for bringing up the Rinoa = Ultimecia thing, which is always kind of annoying.

Sanagi
06-12-2007, 05:28 PM
The guy who invented the gunblade had his memory erased by his GF, so nobody knows how they work.

alexb
06-12-2007, 05:31 PM
That would explain why they're so rare, at any rate.

Savathun
06-12-2007, 05:36 PM
Probably the same guy who made that water sword in FFX. Is he a genius? Or a madman? I can't remember.

Coinspinner
06-12-2007, 05:47 PM
This is irrelevant, but yeah... (http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a239/Coinspinner/Junk/zipbelt.jpg)

Torgo
06-12-2007, 05:55 PM
Good heavens! My eyes!

reibeatall
06-12-2007, 06:21 PM
That's the entire reason Irvine, a trained sniper, couldn't do the job when he was supposed to make a Pollock out of Edea's gray matter. He hadn't been using GFs, so he still remembered everything. It was still pretty weak that he decided to roll with it when nobody remembered him, but it was a lot easier to choke down than the twist in SO3.


Woah, what? How did I miss THAT? Seriously, Irvine didn't use GF's, so he had his memory?

alexb
06-12-2007, 06:32 PM
Yeah. But for some reason he decided he would act like he didn't know the rest of them because they weren't acting like they knew them. He talks about it pretty late in the story. I think during the orphanage sequence.

philliam
06-12-2007, 06:34 PM
Maybe it was a subtle hint by the writers/translators to indicate that she was a pretty generic villain.

Oh, Philliam. "I will junction myself unto your ass!"

Scrooooooooge!

reibeatall
06-12-2007, 06:37 PM
Yeah. But for some reason he decided he would act like he didn't know the rest of them because they weren't acting like they knew them. He talks about it pretty late in the story. I think during the orphanage sequence.

That's totally retarded. If I not only saw, but WAS SAVING THE WORLD, with childhood friends who didn't recognize me, I'd probably make them remember. Or at least cry a lot.

alexb
06-12-2007, 06:39 PM
What can I say? Irvine was kind of a fucking idiot. Like everyone else in that game, actually.

shivam
06-12-2007, 06:43 PM
if you want fucking idiots, look no further than selphie, with her goddamned flippy fucking hairdo and those ginormous chucks of hers. dumbest character in the entirety of final fantasy.

Torgo
06-12-2007, 06:45 PM
Finally! Someone else who agrees. Cait Sith has nothing on her.

philliam
06-12-2007, 06:46 PM
Trains Trains I Love Trains

reibeatall
06-12-2007, 06:46 PM
Doesn't anybody remember that Reynold's Wrap (or Ziploc, I can't remember) commerical that starred Selphie?

philliam
06-12-2007, 06:49 PM
http://fromearth.net/LetsPlay/FF8/Update%201-18/ePSXe%202006-04-20%2012-04-30-06.jpg

alexb
06-12-2007, 06:52 PM
Doesn't anybody remember that Reynold's Wrap (or Ziploc, I can't remember) commerical that starred Selphie?

You talking about what's-her-face? The one that's doing the cellphone commercials now? Red hair. Had a nose job a while back?

Savathun
06-12-2007, 06:53 PM
Booyaka! It's a new word I created. Let's all say it and hope it catches on! ^.^

reibeatall
06-12-2007, 06:55 PM
You talking about what's-her-face? The one that's doing the cellphone commercials now? Red hair. Had a nose job a while back?

I've got no idea what you're talking about. But if I saw her, I'd be able to tell you.

philliam
06-12-2007, 06:59 PM
I liked this game, but the characters are annoying.

thomp538
06-12-2007, 10:17 PM
This (http://fromearth.net/LetsPlay/FF8/chapter1-1.html) contains everything you need to know about FFVIII.
wow, this game was worse than I remember.

mopinks
06-12-2007, 10:21 PM
I liked this game, but the characters are annoying.

YES

I really do like FFVIII a whole lot, regardless of Squall and Rinoa being the most irritating little peckerheads ever.

(maybe second and third most irritating, behind Cloud)

Mazian
06-12-2007, 11:43 PM
I still have a soft spot in my heart for the monkey.
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3291/ff8monkeylm8.jpg

Loki
06-13-2007, 01:06 AM
So...

I kinda like this game...

And there was this theory...

It made me enjoy the game more.

Basicly, Ultimecia is Rinoa in the future. Except that because of GFs she's forgot everything. And then... the castle is where that field of flowers was, because she was waiting for Squal. But he never showed up because he's a jerk. So she wants to time compress so that everything is at the same time all at once, and therefor the person she's waiting for would be there, but she doesn't remember that the person she wants is Squall, so when he does show up she fights him.

It explains why Ultimecia has a wing motif and Griever as her GF. Also it makes the whole thing into a time loop where she gives her powers to Edna who gives those powers to Rinoa who becomes Ultimisa. And it cements the theme of the game. Love isn't just the most important thing in the world, it's worth destroying the world for...

...if you've forgoten everything because of GFs.

It's a pretty stupid interpritation but I've always liked it.

mopinks
06-13-2007, 01:27 AM
yeah, I'm usually opposed to CRACKPOT PLOT THEORIES, but when I read that one before it made so many of the completely nonsensical things in the game suddenly make some kind of sense that I almost believe it's true.

Savathun
06-13-2007, 01:54 AM
Vindicated. I am selfish, I am wrong, I am right, I swear I'm right.

Swear I knew it all along.

Kupek
06-13-2007, 07:40 AM
Am I the only person who liked the game, liked the characters, liked the story and played it like a normal RPG with a quirky attribute-boost system?

Nicholai
06-13-2007, 09:45 AM
Am I the only person who liked the game, liked the characters, liked the story and played it like a normal RPG with a quirky attribute-boost system?

You're not the only one.

Kirin
06-13-2007, 09:51 AM
Re: Gunblades are dumb.

Yeah, pretty much. For the record, I do think the ones in the game were supposed to do little flashes of extra-damaging magic down the blades when you pulled the trigger or something along those lines.

But!

I once came across a genuine IRL (reproduction) gunblade, from a merchant who dealt in period replica firearms. Apparently people were, if fact, actually stupid enough to try this. It was basically a pistol, which did shoot bullets, with... well, a blade. Not as big as the FF8 ones, but much moreso than your basic bayonet. I was almost tempted to buy it for the sheer geekitude.

But I didn't, because it was so totally impractical. The balance, as one might expect, was terrible for either a blade or a pistol. I can't imagine really using it. I think the original idea was single shot with the pistol, then if that didn't stop your opponent, go in with the blade... but yeah, good luck with either one.

Peach
06-13-2007, 10:33 AM
I liked the characters to a certain extent, but moreso, I liked the world. It felt fleshed out, avoiding a lot of cliches of many roleplaying settings - like minuscule populations and lack of transportation. Each town and nation had a distinct aesthetic, so as you traveled, you felt as though you really were traversing continents. The games greatest accomplishment, though, was how it reconciled high technology and high fantasy, making it almost believable that, in a world filled with spaceships and robots, people would still be using swords and nunchucks.

Granted, that reconciliation is also reason for the gunblade's existence, but that's a story for another time.

Evil Dead Junkie
06-13-2007, 11:19 AM
This contains everything you need to know about FFVIII

I also love you.

Coinspinner
06-13-2007, 11:23 AM
When I first read about the gunblade I thought you'd need ammo for it. I'd hoped you'd be able to use elemental ammo in it, adding flaming, electrical or cold based damage to attacks. Oh well.

thomp538
06-13-2007, 04:57 PM
Re: Gunblades are dumb.

Yeah, pretty much. For the record, I do think the ones in the game were supposed to do little flashes of extra-damaging magic down the blades when you pulled the trigger or something along those lines.

But!

I once came across a genuine IRL (reproduction) gunblade, from a merchant who dealt in period replica firearms. Apparently people were, if fact, actually stupid enough to try this. It was basically a pistol, which did shoot bullets, with... well, a blade. Not as big as the FF8 ones, but much moreso than your basic bayonet. I was almost tempted to buy it for the sheer geekitude.

But I didn't, because it was so totally impractical. The balance, as one might expect, was terrible for either a blade or a pistol. I can't imagine really using it. I think the original idea was single shot with the pistol, then if that didn't stop your opponent, go in with the blade... but yeah, good luck with either one.
Like car/planes or octoparrots?

"I shouldn't be"

sraymonds
06-13-2007, 05:23 PM
RE: Gunblades

I ran across a book on guns at my library, and when going through it, I found a section called "Combination Guns". There were a few examples, but the only one that sticks in my mind was a carbine ax, and while most likely impractical as a firearm, they were beautifully designed, and I wouldn't be against owning one for display.

Y'know, maybe if someone survived being struck by the ax, the attacker would pull the trigger to hopefully finish the person off...JUST LIKE SQUALL! OMG!

alexb
06-13-2007, 05:27 PM
Interesting. I'm guessing this was a pretty old weapon? Something before cartridges and magazines had been invented? But again, Squall's gunblade has no barrel and thus nowhere for a bullet to exit from. It's a gun in name only. It is, functionally, a non-gun. A faux-gun. A poseur amongst firearms and an excellent example of what not to bring to a gun fight.

sraymonds
06-13-2007, 05:59 PM
I believe that ye olde combination weapons were flintlocks, and were from the 16th century. In fact, I was so in love with the look of the weapon, I tried to incorporate it into my writing. Still trying though.

myArmoury (http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_spot_combo.html) has a good page that has pictures and everything! So get in there and check it out.

alexb
06-13-2007, 06:22 PM
Popular idea. None of them look very intuitive or sturdy, though, do they? That's the thing about conversion devices. Jack of all trades, master of none. These things are kind of like the 3DO of weaponry.

sraymonds
06-13-2007, 07:07 PM
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y205/lsrsera/pic_spot_combo66_s.gif

Now if Squall was armed with these, the game would be much more awesome.

"This steak is too tough!" R1! or whatever button was used to fire the gunblade.

philliam
06-13-2007, 07:25 PM
No, no it wouldn't.

mr_bungle700
06-13-2007, 07:27 PM
I need those.

Steak? sawsawsawBLAMsawsawsawBLAM

Cereal would be even better.

Squall
06-13-2007, 07:46 PM
I saw something that was almost more of a gun-dagger at a museum in NY, I believe the Metropolitan? I can't remember.

aceface
06-13-2007, 07:51 PM
Hey what do you know, I posted that comment that the OP is referring to!

Anyways, a few people have already mentioned how you can play card games instead of fighting battles to get stronger: win new cards, refine cards into magic, junction. Repeat as necessary. Oh, turn off random battles too.

Honestly though, it's really easy to get really strong at the end of the game, just keep paying for access to that Ultima draw point right at the entrance to that underground village....I forget what it is called. Junction Ultima to Squall's strength and wail away.

Anyways, debating FFVIII's story is so 1999 (GIA Boards represent!). Suffice it to say I loved the game. Just one thing (and big spoiler here, but wtf the game is 8 years old)-

Laguna spends his whole part of the game chasing after Ellone, and eventually saving the world but because of that his wife dies, and his son ends up growing up in an orphanage and becoming a anti-social bastard. I like how it shows the unintended consequences of our actions, no matter how well intentioned.

Jeanie
06-13-2007, 10:40 PM
Actually the best place in the game to draw is on the easternmost and westernmost islands on the map. The draw points are hidden on the world map, just turn off random encounters because the monsters there are pretty strong.

Savathun
06-13-2007, 11:40 PM
Yeah, I spent all kinds of time drawing crap from the islands closest to heaven and hell. It's kind of sad how fun it actually becomes after a while.

Positronic Brain
06-14-2007, 12:18 AM
I'm disappointed - five pages in and not a single word of how cool the logo of this game was. Best Playstation mainstream Final Fantasy title logo ever!

P.S. Or am I the only one who likes the logo? Because now I know I am not the only one who really liked the game. At last, I know I'm not alone! ;_;

Kishi
06-14-2007, 01:13 AM
I guess it's all right if I completely block out who and what it represents and just take it as a cool swishy Amano thing. But once I consider that I'm looking at two of the worst characters ever created, who are even more annoying when placed in one another's proximity, well, it's all over.

Peach
06-14-2007, 08:09 AM
Reminds me too much of something an overweight sixteen year old otaku girl would draw.

R^2
06-14-2007, 08:29 AM
Yeah, I spent all kinds of time drawing crap from the islands closest to heaven and hell.

Hey, yeah. I always wondered about those names, since they're at the extreme east and west sides of a wrapping world map, they're actually the Islands Closest to Each Other.

shivam
06-14-2007, 09:56 AM
I guess it's all right if I completely block out who and what it represents and just take it as a cool swishy Amano thing. But once I consider that I'm looking at two of the worst characters ever created, who are even more annoying when placed in one another's proximity, well, it's all over.


I must agree wholeheartedly with this statement. If i don't give a shit about Squall, and don't give a shit about rinoa, why the hell should i care about their love story?

djSyndrome
06-14-2007, 10:08 AM
I must agree wholeheartedly with this statement. If i don't give a shit about Squall, and don't give a shit about rinoa, why the hell should i care about their love story?

Better question: why would you continue playing the game?

shivam
06-14-2007, 10:19 AM
i never got past disc 3.

i played that far in because a- ff8 was the first game i bought with my own money (much to my dismay). b- the cut scenes were good. c- i really enjoy the card game.

but my apathy towards squall and rinoa, and my sheer hatred towards selphie, eventually won out, and the goddamned faye wong piece of crap song pushed me over the edge, and i never went back.

that, and the four hours i spent leeching some high level spell.

Peach
06-14-2007, 10:32 AM
Hey, yeah. I always wondered about those names, since they're at the extreme east and west sides of a wrapping world map, they're actually the Islands Closest to Each Other.

One thing I never figured out is how they consolidated the globe world map (SUCH A USEFUL TOOL!) and the flat world map. After all, the whole "crossing the top of the map takes you to the bottom of the map" conceit doesn't work with a globe. I once read article that stated that realistically, you would just reappear halfway across the same end of the map and that, logically, many rpg worlds are shaped like donuts.

Stephen
06-14-2007, 10:35 AM
but my apathy towards squall and rinoa, and my sheer hatred towards selphie, eventually won out, and the goddamned faye wong piece of crap song pushed me over the edge, and i never went back.

How can you hate Selphie more than Zell?

Anyways, debating FFVIII's story is so 1999 (GIA Boards represent!)


Representing sir! All we need now is a rehashed debate on FFVII and a bunch of hideous flash ads.

shivam
06-14-2007, 10:57 AM
its her hair flip. drives me insane.

philliam
06-14-2007, 02:25 PM
For this album cover of the FF8 piano thing, me and my friends always thought they accidently drew Squall's booty way to big.

http://www.joehisaishi.net/piano/ff8piano.JPG

But it's just a part of his belt. But now I keep picturing Squall running around with a big ol' butt.

alexb
06-14-2007, 02:26 PM
I wonder if they really painted that or if it's just a filter job.

Coinspinner
06-14-2007, 04:02 PM
The only FF8 character I actually hate is Rinoa. I used Zell a lot because his attack animation was slightly faster than other characters'.

Sarcasmorator
06-14-2007, 04:27 PM
One thing I never figured out is how they consolidated the globe world map (SUCH A USEFUL TOOL!) and the flat world map. After all, the whole "crossing the top of the map takes you to the bottom of the map" conceit doesn't work with a globe. I once read article that stated that realistically, you would just reappear halfway across the same end of the map and that, logically, many rpg worlds are shaped like donuts.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/christabean/eShapeToroidal.jpg

estragon
06-14-2007, 05:54 PM
I . . . thought Zell and Selphie were both cute. Annoying as hell, but cute. I pretty much kept a Squall-Zell-Selphie party whenever I could.

Please don't kick me out of Talking Time.

shivam
06-14-2007, 06:13 PM
oh estragon, are we forever destined to sit at opposite sides of every flame war?

alexb
06-14-2007, 07:00 PM
Wait. Is that what we were doing?

Stephen
06-14-2007, 10:39 PM
It is now motherfucker.

Hay everyone who loves FFVIII--do you enjoy wearing your mother's panties while you play the gayest FF of all? Cause if you like FFVIII you are totally gay (and not the good kind of gay where you can wear each others clothes and get to work out all the time).

chocogaz
06-14-2007, 10:51 PM
I hated the characters, I hated the plot, and I though the battle was interesting but annoying.


Hence, No sir, I didn't like it.

philliam
06-14-2007, 11:23 PM
This thread should've been in the pit of flames. I would have fun with that.

mopinks
06-15-2007, 12:14 AM
you guys are just down on Zell and Selphie because they have a greater appreciation for the beauty of being alive than you ever will. admit it

chocogaz
06-15-2007, 12:21 AM
Nah oddly they were the least annoying for me (Ignoring Lauguna who should have been the main character).

But still, pretty annoying.

Sanagi
06-15-2007, 12:24 AM
I put it to you that FF8 had the best non-boss battle theme ever. It was in 5/4, the coolest of time signatures(at least, according to Dave Brubeck).

blitzchamp
06-15-2007, 01:27 PM
I put it to you that FF8 had the best non-boss battle theme ever. It was in 5/4, the coolest of time signatures(at least, according to Dave Brubeck).

Really? I don't like it...

Guy
06-15-2007, 01:33 PM
Really? I don't like it...

It's impossible to hate the battle theme after hearing the orchestrated version. I only sorta liked it before I heard that version.

Sanagi
06-15-2007, 03:34 PM
It's impossible to hate the battle theme after hearing the orchestrated version. I only sorta liked it before I heard that version.
I liked it beforehand, but the orchestrated version definitely clinched it. One of the best tracks on an otherwise disappointing album, I thought.