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View Full Version : How to not derail a thread: DQVII edition.


Excitemike
06-14-2007, 07:05 PM
Games I have bought or borrowed but never got around to or have barely touched:
Dragon Warrior 8
TRAGEDY.

I had to grind plenty in FFXII, but I think I ground...once, maybe? in DQVIII.

By "grinding", I mean "push the X button". DQVII hurt me. It hurt me bad.

Has anyone else played DQVII? It's not just me, the game is soul-crushing right?

Kolbe
06-14-2007, 07:10 PM
I played it, long ago, but not too much. Perhaps 3 or 4 hours.

djSyndrome
06-14-2007, 07:20 PM
I sold my mint copy of DQ VII, and now there's a BMW in my driveway.

Sprite
06-14-2007, 07:22 PM
I actually really like Dragon Quest VII but I only got about sixty hours into it. The game is quite soul crushing. It dangles a carrot in front of you like the job system and the casino and HOLY CRAP ANCIENT HERO and then when you reach a milestone it ends up being a huge disappointment. But, by that time there's another carrot in the air and you want to find out if maybe, just maybe, the next one will be all worth it.

But the battles are fun, and the job system is cool IF you use an FAQ, otherwise you'll be very lost. So many of the good skills can only be found by using an FAQ or by doing very very long and tedious experimentation. The game has all the best and most of the worst parts of old games.

alexb
06-14-2007, 07:25 PM
It works best if you pick at it for months, rather than trying to playing it start to finish. That's the case with many DQ games, actually. Play a little at a time, like you're reading a story book or something.

Eusis
06-14-2007, 07:28 PM
I liked it, but never beat it. I got 100+ hours in and was outside the Dharma temple. I was grinding for learning jobs and stuff, and that's possibly one of the worst grinds in an offline RPG. You REALLY have to plan it out in advance, otherwise you'll have to grind like nuts later on.

Calorie Mate
06-14-2007, 07:28 PM
Oh, DQVII crushed my soul alright. If I hadn't seen how beautiful DQVIII was at a friend's house and heard the beautiful orchestrated soundtrack we got, I never would have caved and bought it, as I'd sworn off the series after playing DQVII.

shivam
06-14-2007, 07:33 PM
dq7 made me cry. the first dragon warrior to hit our shores in forever, and it came out the same week as ffx. way to go enix. if not for the glory of dq8, the series would be gone and forgotten.

gamin
06-14-2007, 07:51 PM
I enjoyed VII for a while, but I think a lot of it had to do with nostalgia of the NES games and wanting to like it. After 60 hours in (and still just on the first disc) I finally gave up and dropped it. I was getting really confused at that point about which map pieces I needed and which ones I had collected and which ones I missed, on top of that I was just stuck on a particular boss. I seem to remember something about bird people in that quest...

The game's pacing sucked. Completely. It always felt like everything took entirely too long. Except the battles. The battles were awesome, quick loading, quick actions, fun monster animations. It's too bad that the rest of the game was so slumbering. I tried playing again in anticipation for VIII and I couldn't even make it to the first battle before getting frustrated and giving up.

Which is one of the reasons why I love that in VIII, the very first scene throws slimes at you.

sraymonds
06-14-2007, 08:19 PM
I bought it and played it for thirty minutes.

THE END

Balrog
06-14-2007, 09:22 PM
I read about about the job system and I was sold. Then I played it and was unsold.

Torgo
06-14-2007, 09:30 PM
I played the first several hours of it. It didn't seem so bad once I started getting into the meat of the game, but I didn't keep going.

jcole459
06-14-2007, 09:43 PM
This game took me FOUR FREAKING YEARS of on-and-off playing to finally conquer. My unwillingness to a) make much progress due to all the damn grinding, b) give up on the game until I'd finished it and c) get into other games while in the process of completing DQVII pretty much guaranteed that I didn't play many games for that four-year period. In summary, I'm a stubborn idiot who should be shot for not having the good sense to abandon this game when I should have.

DQVIII sits in my drawer unplayed, and is likely to remain so for the foreseeable future. I'm truly curious, though - I know it's all like WOW NEATO GRAPHIX and whatnot, but underneath the sheen, is it really the same old soul-crushing monster, or should I actually consider playing it once the post-traumatic stress from DQVII wears off?

alexb
06-14-2007, 09:56 PM
Depends. What did you not like? There's still a lot of grinding to gain money and levels, but the 3D, behind the back view makes things much more engaging. The music is truly special, too. It oozes atmosphere and class. Also, there's not a 4 hour prologue before your first fight.

Sprite
06-14-2007, 10:01 PM
VIII is much, MUCH less soul-crushing than VII. The skill system isn't nearly as expansive as VII and I think that's a good thing. Just pick one or two weapons to specialize in and go. You still need to like older RPGs to really enjoy it, but the game doesn't hate you like VII does. VIII has the best of both the old and the new.

The top-notch voice acting and orchestrated music help too.


Back on the subject of VII, did anyone else waste a ton of time playing Lucky Panel? That was the only way I found to make quick cash.

gamin
06-14-2007, 10:06 PM
DQ VIII still plays like the old games, but it's balanced properly and was a supreme joy to play. I didn't have to do much at all in the way of grinding or leveling. Really this is one of the few RPGs I've truly felt has perfect balance; random battles often kept me on my toes but I was almost never completely in over my head.

Also, the story maintains a good momentum and didn't get too bogged down by fetch quests.

Red Hedgehog
06-14-2007, 10:15 PM
Man, I loved the story in Dragon Quest VII. I loved that the first couple hours of the game was just exploration without any monster fights. I loved going back in time, having an adventure there, then coming back to the future and seeing how I had affected things. The scope of the game just felt so epic. In short, Dragon Quest VII has my favorite story of any of the Dragon Quests and I love the way it was told.

I didn't like that the job progression system was so slow. I didn't like the fact that by the time I beat the game, my Hero hadn't yet mastered the Hero job. Or that it was so hard to give people multiple jobs. Compared to how great the job system was in Dragon Quest VI, this was an even bigger disappointement. I also didn't like that the amount of gold given in an average amount of fights was so low that you had to grind a bit to get best equipment. And I hated that, in the very end game, the game basically says "Let's interrupt the story for awhile and make you grind for hours." Also, the 2D sprites on 3D backgrounds often made the graphics look pretty ugly.

But the battles went quickly and had good animations. The enemies were still great. It was a good game and I enjoyed it though the length it took to complete was truly epic (although I would often just leave the game on while I went to do something, so I don't really trust that I put over 100 hours into it).

Dragon Quest VII was a good game. Dragon Quest VIII was a better one, though.

reibeatall
06-14-2007, 10:32 PM
I put something like 70 hours into this game; I stopped playing on this island where somebody gets kidnapped and there's a mansion that I have to sneak into or some crap like that. Really fun up to that point, but man, it got to be a drag.

jcole459
06-14-2007, 10:43 PM
And I kinda think that's just it - hyperbole aside the game itself wasn't really that bad, it just kind of wore on me after having to grind so much, especially given the length of the game. I actually agree that the story was engaging, and I did find myself interested every time I saved an island to find out how it affected the future. But yeah, I think once you get to that point where you've saved everything and then the game keeps going, it gets tedious. I think it's mainly the fact that I took so long to finish it that makes me never, ever want to play it again.

cartman414
06-14-2007, 11:37 PM
It really was too long and protracted for its own good. Shame, because it was enjoyable otherwise. If they remake this, they need to rebalance the exp/gil rewards and job mastery progression.

BTW, I can't believe no one mentioned the Sorceror advanced class, which requires the mastery of two (!) intermediate classes, Sage (Magician + Cleric), and TeenIdol (Bard + Jester + Dancer). That's collectively 7 classes to master to access that one class!

bobservo
06-14-2007, 11:43 PM
I played it for 120 hours, got to the last boss, he killed me, and i never touched the game again.





GWARRRRRRRRRGGGH

Figure Four
06-15-2007, 12:38 AM
I borrowed it from a friend back in High School and stopped playing after less than ten hours. The pacing and the ass ugly graphics just didn't click with me.

Skip ahead a couple years and Dragon Quest VIII is one of my all time favorite games. I was giving serious thought to tracking down a copy of VII but this thread has made me second guess that decision. Anyone want to make a suggestion as to where I should go for my Dragon Quest fix?

Deets
06-15-2007, 01:27 AM
If you still have the hardware to play it on, the GBC remake of DWIII is super-duper fun. Mostly.

shivam
06-15-2007, 01:30 AM
i gotta say, though, i really enjoyed turning my party members into monster classes. Man, i wanted to liked DQ7 so much.

Coinspinner
06-15-2007, 01:32 AM
I enjoyed it at first but at some point my enjoyment of it just vanished. The last thing I remember is recruiting an old geezer or Maribel ditching me, I don't know which came first. Did I have the dancer in the group? I don't remember. I do remember thinking that I had almost 100 hours on that clock and was just then learning the real story. Around the same time the game became brutally difficult too, at least for guys like me who didn't want to use a FAQ and had no past DQ experience to guide them on how to train their characters.

Even while I was enjoying it, it's old-school nature ticked me off. The huge font that forces battle text to wrap, the clunky menus, my character's name being truncated, and the need to speak to a nun or priest to determine how close you are to gaining a level of all things. In fact, as I recall to find out how many more battles you needed to gain a Job level you had to speak to this one nun all the way back at the big temple. I once wasted an hour of grinding thanks to that. My character gained a level while I wasn't paying attention which put him just outside the range where those battles would count. That's after I'd made a trip from the temple and back to check if the battles counted.

TheSL
06-15-2007, 04:54 AM
I played over 100 hours, was still on the first disc and had mastered an unbelievable amount of jobs. I took a month or so off from the game, came back and was totally in the dark as to where I should be going and what of the 50+ moves I had learned for each character was the best(especially the monster class ones).

Excitemike
06-15-2007, 06:49 AM
I was enjoying it for the first 60 hours or so. The story and characters were fun, and the slow grinding for job classes didn't ruin it for me. The OMG SO UGLY fmv's were a small insult but nothing I couldn't shake off. And the SNES-era graphics were charming. It was the SNES-era music that finally did me in. After hearing the overworld and battle theme for 90+ hours I just could not take it anymore. I remember very clearly stopping the game, putting it in the case, getting on my bike and riding down to Funcoland. I just wanted it out of my life. I traded it in for FF Chronicles, which is a entirely other tale of woe.

It's not just the music, it's the sounds. Rocket Slime Adventures was fun but I couldn't play it anymore after I finished it. The DQ theme music and SFX are now unbearable to me. And I'm just realizing this now, but I think that was the last RPG I played. Game seriously messed me up, guys.

nathan
06-15-2007, 07:40 AM
Depends. What did you not like? There's still a lot of grinding to gain money and levels, but the 3D, behind the back view makes things much more engaging. The music is truly special, too. It oozes atmosphere and class. Also, there's not a 4 hour prologue before your first fight.
Yeah, it's only 2 1/2 hours. I got past the prologue to the first fight and had to turn it off in shear frustration at all the stupid point A to point B treasure hunting that you had to do at the beginning. I thought that was a pretty odd way to start the game.

bobservo
06-15-2007, 08:35 AM
I think this game had a more confusing/obtuse job system than Seiken Densetsu 3. It's like they made a serious effort for you to not know your progress. THey really should have revamped things after the awful job system in VI.

Sprite
06-15-2007, 11:48 AM
It was the SNES-era music that finally did me in. After hearing the overworld and battle theme for 90+ hours I just could not take it anymore.

Oh yes, the Overworld theme that starts out like the Sesame Street theme. I HATED IT SO MUCH!

ozacrot
06-15-2007, 12:46 PM
I own this game, but playing it on emulator with rampant abuse of savestates and frameskip is the only way I would ever have finished it. It's unfortunate - it's a much better game at double speed, without having to spend hours on lucky panel to get monster hearts.

Every part of playing this game otherwise is like banging your head against a wall. There's the Sisyphean job system, sure, but also the fact that no matter how powerful you get, enemies can by chance completely tear you apart if they happen to select the right moves. Also, all the extra treasures and stuff are based upon ridiculous luck-based exercises (the various immigrant towns, getting monster hearts through battle or lucky panel, the rest of the casino).

The game would probably kill an OCD-level completist.

shivam
06-15-2007, 12:56 PM
as an ocd level completist, i have to say it frustrated the crap out of me.
i stopped before i got too sucked in, because i couldnt deal anymore.

Red Hedgehog
06-15-2007, 12:57 PM
THey really should have revamped things after the awful job system in VI.

What. The job system in VI was amazing. You learned jobs at a reasonable pace, you could combine them well, and the abilities made sense. The one drawback was that there wasn't any in-game listing of what led to what so you needed instructions or a guide. But man, the job system in VI was awesome - it's the reason I enjoyed it more than V, despite the lack of story.

For VII, they basically just added a ton more, made it much more confusing, added all these monster jobs where you had no clue how they tied in, and slowed down the pace at which you learned jobs. It was a poor system and worse after how streamlined VI's was.

The game would probably kill an OCD-level completist.

Yeah, the way I was able to come back to and beat the game after a year was by telling myself that I didn't need to win every item from the casino and I didn't need to get every form of the immigrant town.

Daydreamer
06-16-2007, 07:21 AM
DQVII was too soul-crushingly tedious, and 8 though fun and pretty was shallow. DQVI - now THERE was a game. Two worlds, tons of dungeons and bosses, neat stories, and classic DQ game play.

blitzchamp
06-16-2007, 08:40 AM
By "grinding", I mean "push the X button". DQVII hurt me. It hurt me bad.

Has anyone else played DQVII? It's not just me, the game is soul-crushing right?

I liked DQVII alot. It's a great game. The leveling up method isn't the best though.

bobservo
06-16-2007, 09:00 AM
The one drawback was that there wasn't any in-game listing of what led to what so you needed instructions or a guide. But man, the job system in VI was awesome - it's the reason I enjoyed it more than V, despite the lack of story.


The fact that they don't ever you know how you're progressing within the job system really kills it for me.

Armored Robo Zaza Gabor
06-16-2007, 09:13 AM
DQVII is a great RPG. It's kinda like NetHack. As part of the DQ series, it's boring and long and difficult. But as a standalone game it's the sort of thing you'd hope it'll go open source and a bunch of nerds would make it longer and more complex.

If DQVII was an opensource nerd project it would beat the crap out of NetHack as the most complex and interesting CRPG ever.

cartman414
06-16-2007, 10:31 AM
I own this game, but playing it on emulator with rampant abuse of savestates and frameskip is the only way I would ever have finished it. It's unfortunate - it's a much better game at double speed, without having to spend hours on lucky panel to get monster hearts.

Every part of playing this game otherwise is like banging your head against a wall. There's the Sisyphean job system, sure, but also the fact that no matter how powerful you get, enemies can by chance completely tear you apart if they happen to select the right moves. Also, all the extra treasures and stuff are based upon ridiculous luck-based exercises (the various immigrant towns, getting monster hearts through battle or lucky panel, the rest of the casino).

The game would probably kill an OCD-level completist.

Word. Frameskip is the only way to play.

Andrew
06-16-2007, 08:34 PM
I bought it and played it for thirty minutes.

THE END

Replace "bought" with rented and that's my situation. I just couldn't find anything to interest me enough to deal with the annoying menu system and already-long-archaic visuals.

cartman414
06-16-2007, 10:57 PM
Hopefully by the time they remake this, not to mention other earlier games in the series, they go with a more up to date menu system. Not to mention accelerate character progression and gold drop rates a la the Dragon Quest 1 remake.

Tomm Guycot
06-16-2007, 11:45 PM
I really enjoyed DQVII. It's where I discovered that in DQ games, "AI" stood for "Awesome and Intelligent!"

The story was told in a great way, and I found it engaging from start to finish.

However, VIII is better for any number of reasons--chief among them that your protagonist doesn't look like a doof.

jcole459
06-16-2007, 11:58 PM
Hopefully by the time they remake this, not to mention other earlier games in the series, they go with a more up to date menu system. Not to mention accelerate character progression and gold drop rates a la the Dragon Quest 1 remake.

Seriously. I truly enjoyed playing the DQ I & II remakes on the GBC and wished they'd just made DQVII like that to begin with. Excessive grinding was okay back when I was a kid, but now at 28 it can sometimes be hard enough to find time to play as it is without having to spending hours upon hours just leveling up or earning gold to buy equipment.

cartman414
06-17-2007, 12:00 AM
I really enjoyed DQVII. It's where I discovered that in DQ games, "AI" stood for "Awesome and Intelligent!"

The story was told in a great way, and I found it engaging from start to finish.

However, VIII is better for any number of reasons--chief among them that your protagonist doesn't look like a doof.

I loved the story as well, but admit it, no RPG's core length should be 100 hours.

Eusis
06-17-2007, 12:03 AM
I loved the story as well, but admit it, no RPG's core length should be 100 hours.
Hey, I wanted at least /one/ game to be like that. DQVII managed that, and I'm glad for it.

Don't think I want another though.

Excitemike
06-17-2007, 12:25 AM
I really enjoyed DQVII.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/eye_robot/miscellaneous/TFORTOMM.jpg

Red Hedgehog
06-17-2007, 02:04 AM
The fact that they don't ever you know how you're progressing within the job system really kills it for me.

Well, you did know if you went back to Dharma and talked to the person, but I could see that complaint. Still, since the pacing was reasonable, unlike its successor's, I didn't mind it.

Tomm Guycot
06-17-2007, 09:38 PM
I loved the story as well, but admit it, no RPG's core length should be 100 hours.

I beat it in 80

Alex
06-19-2007, 04:40 AM
7's quests were self-contained enough that you didn't really need to play the game continuously to enjoy the story, but you kind of did if you forgot what to do next. I liked it, though, but I don't think I could be convinced to play through the whole thing again. It does have some of the more horrific and depressing plots of an RPG, like that robot who kept caring for that guy long after he had died, or the village that gets turned to stone by that cursed raincloud, and all but one person are too eroded in the future to restore.

6 is probably my favorite in the series, although 8 is wonderful due to the awesome voice acting and pretty cool storyline. I almost feel like playing through it again to see the various cinematics.