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View Full Version : FC10: Super Mario Galaxy (Endgame, spoilers and beyond)


Parish
11-12-2007, 11:32 AM
Talk about the final challenges here, share secrets and discuss the game's paper-thin excuse for a story too.

sfried
11-12-2007, 05:15 PM
Since I watched the ending in Youtube, for a Mario game, I didn't expect a wierd phylosophical lecture from Rosalina about life/death/rebirth, plus the whole "Eva 'Congratulations'" thing at the end.

Parish
11-12-2007, 05:40 PM
Yeah, the ending is, uh, unexpected. Although Mario's always been about animism, what with the hills and clouds and animals always staring at you. I fully expect Shivam to lecture us on why Galaxy's ending reminds him of this <I>totally bomb-ass</I> paper he wrote in college in five... four... three... two...

shivam
11-12-2007, 05:52 PM
...
you're not my friend anymore, parish.

Parish
11-12-2007, 05:54 PM
Aw, but it's funny 'cause it's true :(

sfried
11-12-2007, 07:20 PM
Yeah, the ending is, uh, unexpected. Although Mario's always been about animism, what with the hills and clouds and animals always staring at you. I fully expect Shivam to lecture us on why Galaxy's ending reminds him of this <I>totally bomb-ass</I> paper he wrote in college in five... four... three... two...

I thought it was more Hindu because of it, sans the whole "cycle doesn't repeat itself in quite the same way". By the way, you did get the 120 star ending, did you?

joffeorama
11-12-2007, 11:29 PM
I thought it was more Hindu because of it, sans the whole "cycle doesn't repeat itself in quite the same way". By the way, you did get the 120 star ending, did you?

Mario is BUDDHISM. Didn't anyone read that thread of video game essays?

BEAT
11-13-2007, 01:43 AM
I always assumed Mario was A retelling of the Christian Allegory Pilgrim's Progress, about overcoming seemingly insurmountable obstacles to reach a better place.

Much like how every final fantasy is a retelling of The Man Who Was Thursday, in which a bunch of people try to defeat a godlike foe and then everything gets weird.

But I digress. I have no need for "Plot" in my Mario games. We need only the instinctive knowledge that jumping on things is a pure and noble action, and one that should be preformed at every opportunity.

Niku
11-13-2007, 07:30 PM
WOAH HEY POST END GAME DISCUSSION COMING THROUGH

I'm disappointed Luigi's mode isn't harder. While his controls are slightly more slippery, the process of getting all the stars is exactly the same .. save for Luigi's Cosmic Comets. Cosmic Luigi is MUCH faster and more efficient than Cosmic Mario, and the stars are a true challenge to nab. I would have liked to have seen that kind of attention paid to the rest of the stars, even if it was just a minor change to each.

Parish
11-13-2007, 07:50 PM
Niku, you worry me.

Niku
11-13-2007, 09:30 PM
I've had the game for a little while. It took me longer than a day to get 120 stars.

.. it took me three.

Parish
11-13-2007, 09:37 PM
Niku, you worry me.

sfried
11-14-2007, 12:16 AM
Three is about the normal amount of days to finish a game like this.
Now, can you manage to beat the entire game once again with Luigi?

Niku
11-14-2007, 09:45 AM
Don't make me say it. Parish worries enough as it is.

Eirikr
11-14-2007, 09:56 PM
This is my first post in the Mario Galaxy discussions...but yeah, I beat it earlier today.

The ending was...the ending to Digital Devil Saga 2. First you're fighting the final boss in a SUN then you are flying through space and die but are totally reincarnated. Shanti, Shanti.

Parish
11-14-2007, 10:30 PM
"April is the cruelest month, breeding fire flowers out of the dead land."

Eirikr
11-14-2007, 10:40 PM
"April is the cruelest month, breeding fire flowers out of the dead land."

Mixing coins and mushrooms, stirring Piranha roots with spring rain.

Parish
11-14-2007, 10:46 PM
(Come in under the shelter of this Battle Rock)

...yeah, OK, stopping now.

Eirikr
11-14-2007, 10:50 PM
Madame Rosalina, famous astrofarer,
Has homesickness, nevertheless
Is known to be the wisest woman in space,
With a wicked herd of Lumas.

We could totally Mariofy this entire poem.

Parish
11-14-2007, 11:01 PM
But we won't! And the world will be a better place for it.

sfried
11-14-2007, 11:49 PM
But Parish...this is genius in the making!

reibeatall
11-15-2007, 04:25 PM
I just beat it.

Umm... what the shit? Am I on candid camera?

TheSL
11-15-2007, 09:37 PM
I beat it tonight, but only I've only got 64/120 stars so I've got a bit of playtime left.

Calorie Mate
11-15-2007, 10:35 PM
I'm with these two. Beat it, but only have 65 stars, so I've still got plenty of Mario ahead of me. Woo hoo!


(Yeah, that ending was...well, I never play Mario games for the endings, anyway.)

Mr. Sensible
11-15-2007, 11:16 PM
The purple coin star in Toy Time Galaxy is destroying my will to live. The Dreadnaught was pretty bad but this one might break my personal record for most Marios (possibly also Wiimotes) destroyed.

Afterwards, more ray surfing, followed by death's sweet embrace.

Niku
11-16-2007, 01:09 AM
I really hope you realize there are something like 150 to 200 coins on that stage. It was DESTROYING me when I thought there were only 100 coins on the stage, and was doing everything I could to get all the coins right at the beginning without obliterating the playing field in the process.

Mr. Sensible
11-16-2007, 10:03 AM
I know, but even so 100 is still a tall order. I think I've gotten maybe 60 before I fell?

How are you even supposed to get the little clumps of coins hanging past the edge? I tried jumping out to them and spinning back but I always fall.

Also, the fact that it's timed just frosts my cookies.

Spikey
11-16-2007, 04:53 PM
That one is by far the hardest star in the entire game. I got those clusters of coins by long jumping out to them, pulling back as I reached them, and then spinning back on to the platform.

Brickroad
11-16-2007, 05:58 PM
The purple coin star in Toy Time Galaxy is destroying my will to live.

That one was REALLY rough. Probably took me a few dozen tries at least.

Eventually though you kind of see a path through the level and it becomes much less daunting. Once you're not just randomly running around and you come up with a plan, it's very much doable.

Sporophyte
11-17-2007, 12:07 AM
Well I just cleared it with 120 stars. Some of those purple coin levels are demonic. Any way this game was fantastic and I love that the bonus is a fresh start with Luigi. His slippery footwork seems like it will take some getting used to.

Brickroad
11-17-2007, 01:47 AM
Just got my 120th star. A few of the purple coin levels were kinda dumb, but other than that I had a blast with the entire game.

Not sure that I'm up to doing it all over again right away. I'll probably pick my Luigi game up in a month or so.

Jawaboy
11-17-2007, 11:20 AM
Does Luigi rescue Mario in his version or do they use someone else? It would just seem odd to me that Luigi has to save Mario.

Niku
11-17-2007, 02:23 PM
Luigi rescues Luigi.

Jeanie
11-17-2007, 03:04 PM
Does Luigi rescue Mario in his version or do they use someone else? It would just seem odd to me that Luigi has to save Mario.

See Mario is Missing and Luigi's Mansion. That's kinda dumb that they didn't replace Luigi with Mario in Super Luigi Galaxy.

Rosencrantz
11-17-2007, 05:07 PM
Man, I can NOT get this one purple coin in the Desert stage. It's the one near the beginning that's on top of the Thwomp. I keep trying to use one of the tornadoes, but it gets me aaaaalmost there but not quite. I guess I'll try another stage in the meantime.

Brickroad
11-17-2007, 05:15 PM
Man, I can NOT get this one purple coin in the Desert stage. It's the one near the beginning that's on top of the Thwomp. I keep trying to use one of the tornadoes, but it gets me aaaaalmost there but not quite. I guess I'll try another stage in the meantime.

Keep trying. That's how I got up there.

On that subject, does anyone know how you're supposed to get up to the bonus pipe in Deep Dark Galaxy? I got up there using a lot of unconventional jumps (just to get up to the first ledge I had to use a backflip/spin/wall jump/spin combo). It was fun, but I really felt like I was breaking something. Is there maybe a switch or something I missed?

Eirikr
11-17-2007, 06:00 PM
Man, I can NOT get this one purple coin in the Desert stage. It's the one near the beginning that's on top of the Thwomp. I keep trying to use one of the tornadoes, but it gets me aaaaalmost there but not quite. I guess I'll try another stage in the meantime.

Do a crouching Z-jump at the highest ledge near there, and at the apex of your jump waggle the wiimote to do a spin and you should be able to get up there.

I spent MUCH more time than I should have getting this star. Good luck.

Sporophyte
11-17-2007, 06:13 PM
Man, I can NOT get this one purple coin in the Desert stage. It's the one near the beginning that's on top of the Thwomp. I keep trying to use one of the tornadoes, but it gets me aaaaalmost there but not quite. I guess I'll try another stage in the meantime.

I got up there by backfliping up onto the side of the thwomp and then wall-kicking off into a spin which lets you pull back enough to land on top of it.

Calorie Mate
11-17-2007, 06:38 PM
Man, that purple coin challenge in Toy Time was insane! I was on the brink of giving up, and then I had a run where I got 91 before falling. A couple more tries and I had it...but there were so many near-deaths and split second, fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants decisions that I impressed myself and wish I could have recored it. It was nuts!


So: who else thinks Mario's flying costume is dumb? I mean, It looks cool I guess, but why not give him something classic (tail, cape, winged cap) or something cool for this game (say, jet pack, since we're in space), instead of black overalls and glowing hands?

Eirikr
11-17-2007, 07:16 PM
I just had to give up in frustration at the Toy Time purple coins. I got 100...then the star shows up at the beginning of the level and I had no sane way of getting over there. 6 more stars to go for me, and I know I'll pick it up again before the end of the night, but man...

Brickroad
11-17-2007, 08:06 PM
I just had to give up in frustration at the Toy Time purple coins. I got 100...then the star shows up at the beginning of the level and I had no sane way of getting over there. 6 more stars to go for me, and I know I'll pick it up again before the end of the night, but man...

The first time I grabbed 100 coins I was like YES YES YES! Then the star spawned on the other side of the level and I realized I was only halfway done.

I really do love that particular star, even though I was pulling my hair out trying to get it (and will pull my hair out again with Luigi). You really have to plan your route out over the course of many tries if you're going to be successful.

Lumber Baron
11-17-2007, 08:26 PM
Luigi rescues Luigi.
TAIMU PARADOKUSU! (http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs7/i/2005/192/b/6/oldies_goodies_golf_by_thweatted.png)

Flying Beef
11-17-2007, 10:22 PM
Man, I can NOT get this one purple coin in the Desert stage. It's the one near the beginning that's on top of the Thwomp. I keep trying to use one of the tornadoes, but it gets me aaaaalmost there but not quite. I guess I'll try another stage in the meantime.

Lurker here. God DAMN, I had trouble with this one too. I used the tornado on the highest ledge to get up there somehow. I furiously waggled the wii-mote as hard as I could while I was spinning just as the thwomp was at its lowest point, while motioning Mario with the controller in the other hand (insert crude joke here). As everyone else said, it takes some practice and timing.

Calorie Mate
11-17-2007, 11:50 PM
Actually, the best way is to stand in front of the Thwomp, facing away from him. As soon as he slams down, do that really high jump (the one where oyu run in a direction, immediately go the other and jump, resulting in a sort of high side-flip thing). Wall jump off his face, and immediately waggle to spin and move back towards him. You should land right on top of his face. Works for me every time.


....however! I have not gotten the 100 purple coins here yet, since I got so frustrated I needed to take a break. I'm 12 stars away from completion, and while some of the purple coins were fun, I really do feel they're dragging the game down now. Ugh.

widdershins
11-18-2007, 03:06 AM
It's really bugging me that the more I play Galaxy, the more I want to play 64 again.

I don't get it... there are so many things in this game that have absolutely blown my mind, but there's a big part of me that still feels that the granddaddy is the better game.

Honestly, this is probably just more proof that it's folly to try and designate one great game as "better" than another. I still need to figure out where the AC adapter for my N64 for is though.

sfried
11-18-2007, 03:37 AM
I still need to figure out where the AC adapter for my N64 for is though.

In your console? (N64 adaptors are quite different from other Nintendo console bretherens)

widdershins
11-18-2007, 04:43 AM
In your console? (N64 adaptors are quite different from other Nintendo console bretherens)

Hehe, sadly no. I've moved around a lot recently, and that's one of the things that I can't find for the life of me. The damn thing is huge too (at least the part that connects to the 64) so it'd be pretty hard to miss.

reibeatall
11-18-2007, 08:03 AM
Thankfully, Nintendo has placed Mario 64 on the Virtual Console for the low low price of 1000 Wii points.

Eirikr
11-18-2007, 12:56 PM
Just got Luigi! Is it just me or is he...really fast?

SlimJimm
11-18-2007, 01:19 PM
Wow you guys must be really good to get all 120 stars so fast.

In fact any level where there is a time limit or a race is next to impossible for me. I cant stand having to rush through a level and not take my time. I always get some sort of anxiety attack and freak out having to do a comet race.

Mr. Sensible
11-18-2007, 01:22 PM
Just got Luigi! Is it just me or is he...really fast?

Not only fast, but he jumps a bit higher as well. Too bad the soles of his shoes are covered in cooking grease or something.

Eirikr
11-18-2007, 01:24 PM
Too bad the soles of his shoes are covered in cooking grease or something.

Yeah, I noticed that when I died on the first star in good egg. He does jump noticeably higher - but the real question is, will I feel like getting 120 stars over again right now?

Mr. Sensible
11-18-2007, 01:35 PM
I don't know about you, but I am happily replaying this with Weege. 240 stars ahoy!

mopinks
11-18-2007, 01:36 PM
that ending was seriously lacking in delicious cake.

Brickroad
11-18-2007, 01:38 PM
Yeah, I noticed that when I died on the first star in good egg. He does jump noticeably higher - but the real question is, will I feel like getting 120 stars over again right now?

I didn't think I was going to, but, meh, 84 stars and counting with Luigi.

His controls are a little slippier, but I think I prefer him to Mario. He does get some extra height on his jumps, which is cool.

But man, Cosmic Luigi races are BRUTAL.

On the whole I'd say the purple coin stars are alright. There are a few pretty bad ones (Honeyhive, Beach Bowl and Sea Slide especially) where you just have to run around hunting for them. This is how all of the 100-coin stars in Mario 64 were. Thankfully most of them are set up as challenges and not collect-a-thons. I especially like Toy Time and Ghostly's purple coin stages.

Eirikr
11-18-2007, 01:44 PM
Is there any bonus for getting 120 with Luigi?

I think at worst I'll let a friend borrow my Wii so he can do the work for me.

Brickroad
11-18-2007, 02:59 PM
Yatta! Just got the Toy Time Purple Coin star with Luigi. Only took two tries!

Not sure if it's because I know the level better, or because Luigi's controls are more suited to the level, but there you go. The last 19 stars should be cake.

Incidentally, I didn't realize until now that the Mario and Luigi pixel art section of Toy Time are just opposite sides of the same planet. Neat!

Eirikr
11-18-2007, 03:37 PM
Incidentally, I didn't realize until now that the Mario and Luigi pixel art section of Toy Time are just opposite sides of the same planet. Neat!

Yeah, one time I fell off the Luigi side and somehow got my ass burnt by the lava on the Mario side. It was a great way to go.

Calorie Mate
11-18-2007, 05:29 PM
Yeah, Luigi's weird. A lot of fun to control, though. I won't be going for another 120 anytime soon, but someday I will. Hooray!


On the whole I'd say the purple coin stars are alright. There are a few pretty bad ones (Honeyhive, Beach Bowl and Sea Slide especially) where you just have to run around hunting for them. This is how all of the 100-coin stars in Mario 64 were. Thankfully most of them are set up as challenges and not collect-a-thons. I especially like Toy Time and Ghostly's purple coin stages.

You forgot to add Dusty Dune to your hate list. Otherwise, I agree; a lot of the purple coin challenges actually ended up being kind of fun.

Sprite
11-18-2007, 10:34 PM
Just got 120 stars. Fastest 100% (or is that 50%?) ever. I can't believe I was so addicted to the game the whole time.

I only have two complaints: The aforementioned purple coin quests in Beach Bowl, etc., and the underused Boo Suit. That power-up was far too cool to only be used for a minute in two levels. Especially with the considerable time the other power-ups get (except Flying, of course. What's up with that?).

Tomm Guycot
11-18-2007, 11:32 PM
The Purple Coin levels are NOT "just like Mario 64," and that's because there is one important distinction: the purple coin levels are separate levels, designed to be what they are.

In Mario 64 (and Sunshine), you had to find coins WITHIN one of the other levels. Meaning if you chose badly, you could spend an hour searching only to realize there just weren't enough coins in the level. That's what made them stupidly frustrating. You had to remember where the level's coins MIGHT be. And if you didn't grab a coin before it disappeared... oops!

In Galaxy, this is not the case. I hate collectathons but I LOVE Honeyhive, Beach thing, Icy Death Place, etc. you KNOW all the coins are there SOMEWHERE, so searching for them is a blast (for me). The coin challenges are what keep me from replaying the earlier 3D Mario's, but I'm eating them up, here (I also didn't save them for last; maybe that is burning you guys out).

I still only have 107 stars, but I do want to say... this could be my favorite game of all time. It's easily the best 3D Mario, and here's why:

I've only played 64 twice, and Sunshine once. (Completed both) When I think back on those, I remember the levels that pissed the hell out of me. Don't get me wrong, I remember all the WORLDS with fondness, however the only individual "stars" I can recall are the ones that I never, ever want to do again. Tick Tock Clock, Sunshine's ghost house, etc. When I think of those Mario's, I remember what annoyed me.

When I think about SMB3, Mario World, etc... I remember FUN. However, that went away until Galaxy. I have loved the hell out of EVERY SINGLE LEVEL of this game. They all have their unique qualities and all are worth playing.

I can't wait to start up a Luigi game.

Calorie Mate
11-18-2007, 11:44 PM
Tick Tock Clock was fun.

You must be thinking of Rainbow Road.

mopinks
11-18-2007, 11:45 PM
yeah, I really enjoy how they took challenges that just seemed like lazy filler in 64 and Sunshine (100-coin stars, Shadow Mario races and whatnot) and turned them into something that really WORKS. nothing ever feels like an afterthought, so it's pretty much the best of everything all around.

I still love Sunshine to death, but I'll be damned if I'm ever going to collect all those blue coins again.

Niku
11-19-2007, 02:04 AM
Remember, there's not 240 stars.

There's 242.

Wink.

estragon
11-19-2007, 05:32 AM
The Purple Coin levels are NOT "just like Mario 64," and that's because there is one important distinction: the purple coin levels are separate levels, designed to be what they are.

Tomm is very, very right.

As someone who got every goddamn star in 64 and Sunshine, I can't emphasize enough how . . . considerate the purple coin stages in Galaxy are to the player by comparison.

Brickroad
11-19-2007, 07:46 AM
Tomm is very, very right.

As someone who got every goddamn star in 64 and Sunshine, I can't emphasize enough how . . . considerate the purple coin stages in Galaxy are to the player by comparison.

Definitely. The worst of the purple coin stars are still better than the best coin levels in 64 (I didn't bother to do any of them in Sunshine).

The blue coins were especially bad in Sunshine, because there were X of them out there, but you had no indication where they were, how many were left, how to find them, or even how many you already had. At least with 64 you could play a level a few times and get a feel for where the coins were. Only a couple of the purple coin levels in Galaxy are designed like that.

Now that I think about it, there were a few stages in 64 that only had 100 coins (or very close to it), so you did have to pick up practically every single coin in the level to clear it. The 100-coin star on Dire Dire Docks is probably the worst one in the game.

Sprite
11-19-2007, 09:47 AM
I agree with all of you. There was not a single star that pissed me off, only some that I liked more than others. Galaxy is objectively the best 3D Mario. Subjectively 64 will probably still win out with a lot of people, but whatever, all 3D Marios are really great games the end.

I think between this game and the Ratchet and Clank games, 3D platforming has been perfected. Where on earth does Mario go after this?

Brickroad
11-19-2007, 09:57 AM
Where on earth does Mario go after this?

4D.

SlimJimm
11-19-2007, 10:00 AM
Super Mario's String Theory

Woo hoo

Tomm Guycot
11-19-2007, 01:56 PM
I agree with all of you. There was not a single star that pissed me off, only some that I liked more than others. Galaxy is objectively the best 3D Mario. Subjectively 64 will probably still win out with a lot of people, but whatever, all 3D Marios are really great games the end.

I think this is total BS (not your statement, the fact that it's true).

This attitude of "the older version is better by default" needs to end. We never used to think like this as kids. SMB3 is WAY better than the first SMB. Castlevania 3? Zelda 3? All way better. I don't know where it started (probably crappy first-gen 3D versions of the games), but it IS NOT TRUE. Gamers as a group seem to believe this far more than any other group that I associate with.

Not saying the new version is always better, mind you. But in the case of Galaxy it is. Mario Galaxy is far and away better than 64 and Sunshine. I can't even see someone entertaining the thought otherwise. I know they WILL, but I also know I'll think they're insane.

Sprite
11-19-2007, 02:08 PM
Proof that you'll never please the internet (taken from a GameFAQs thread):

I mean I see on the Cheat Codes and Secrets section that you get another star. So what big deal...It's just a star. There should be something more for beating the game with Luigi. He is harder to use than Mario and a 2 run throughs of 120 stars takes time.

Everything in the game should unlock something else! Luigi should unlock Wario! Wario should unlock Yoshi! Yoshi should unlock Peach! Peach...

ringworm
11-19-2007, 02:10 PM
Gamers in particular seem to confuse quality with nostalgia. There is a really strong desire to not compare newer games and older games on their merit, but rather on which game had the more enjoyable experience within the context of when it was first played.

There's nothing wrong with that, of course, I think its an interesting comparison, but not particularly useful. In that "Top 10 Ever" thread, someone mentioned that he was disappointed by the lack of older games in peoples' list which, in that kind of list, baffled me. Games have gotten better. It doesn't matter to me what it was like to play The Legend of Zelda when I was 10. What matters to me when making a list like that is what is playing The Legend of Zelda like now.

You can appreciate the innovations something made without taking away from games that built off and polished those innovations.

Brickroad
11-19-2007, 05:49 PM
Well, 242 stars. I have officially demolished this game.

Mr. Sensible
11-19-2007, 06:36 PM
The best thing I can say about this game is that I hope the next Mario title is exactly like this one. Same mechanics, more galaxies. That would be just fine with me.

Calorie Mate
11-20-2007, 12:36 AM
Mario 64 will always hold a special placei n my heart, just for how NEW it was at the time...but otherwise, yeah, Galaxy destroys the other two 3D Marios.

Well, 242 stars. I have officially demolished this game.

Would someone please explain to me thwere the two extra stars come from?

The best thing I can say about this game is that I hope the next Mario title is exactly like this one. Same mechanics, more galaxies. That would be just fine with me.

I was actually thinking about this...if they could, say, put out another Galaxy game in a year or two, with the same number of unique planets and things, I'd be all over it. I complain about sequels a lot, but remember the days where it just made sense to have more than one Mario game on a platform? I'd be all about it if it's anything like Galaxy is.

Brickroad
11-20-2007, 07:12 AM
Would someone please explain to me thwere the two extra stars come from?

After getting all the stars with Luigi you unlock a new one-star galaxy, which you can complete with both Mario and Luigi.

widdershins
11-20-2007, 02:01 PM
I think this is total BS (not your statement, the fact that it's true).

This attitude of "the older version is better by default" needs to end. We never used to think like this as kids. SMB3 is WAY better than the first SMB. Castlevania 3? Zelda 3? All way better. I don't know where it started (probably crappy first-gen 3D versions of the games), but it IS NOT TRUE. Gamers as a group seem to believe this far more than any other group that I associate with.

Not saying the new version is always better, mind you. But in the case of Galaxy it is. Mario Galaxy is far and away better than 64 and Sunshine. I can't even see someone entertaining the thought otherwise. I know they WILL, but I also know I'll think they're insane.

I feel obliged to respond to this, as I've made mention of a feeling I can't shake that somehow I think 64 is "better" for reasons I can't define.

I have to say that I disagree with you, at least in part. Yes the tiring "nobody makes games like they used to" nonsense is for the most part sour grapes from people who feel like the gaming scene has passed them by; they're the old guys who spend all day telling you how great things used to be before all the kids of today started ruining everything.

However, at the end of the day, I think we all need to be reminded that there's really no such thing as one game being "better" than another, especially, as is the case with 64 and galaxy, both games are fantastic. A huge part of gaming is the experience you have personally, and no matter how good a game is, if you don't have that great "experience" -- the story you can tell years later -- about playing it, it may forever take second place.

The great thing about Mario 64 for me is that I didn't have gameplay videos and hype (at least not on the same level) years in advance, which made the whole thing more fresh to me when I PLAYED it than can be said for galaxy no matter how much it continues to blow me away.

I hope that doesn't come off too catty, but I think we all need to take a look at our own inner armchair critics from time to time.

Tomm Guycot
11-20-2007, 02:07 PM
However, at the end of the day, I think we all need to be reminded that there's really no such thing as one game being "better" than another, especially, as is the case with 64 and galaxy, both games are fantastic. A huge part of gaming is the experience you have personally, and no matter how good a game is, if you don't have that great "experience" -- the story you can tell years later -- about playing it, it may forever take second place.

I can't agree to this. You're implying games (unlike movies, books, ANYTHING) cannot be objectively called "better" or "worse" than one another. And they can.

If the only game you played growing up was Adventure (for Atari) with its 4-directional movement of a square, it would be the best game you ever played.

You were also, let's say, 5, so your imagination filled in all these blanks, and you just loved it. It was AMAZING. A triumph. It shaped your childhood.

Now, years later, you plug in Twilight Princess. You play it, but it can't create that same feeling. everything is spelled out. Everything is complicated. You can't "be a kid again."

You're telling me in your post that Adventure is a better game than Twilight Princess.

That is just blatantly, inarguably, untrue.

TheSL
11-20-2007, 02:17 PM
I still enjoy Link to the Past more than I do Twilight Princess. Though this isn't as extreme as your example Tomm(and I still really like TP!), is it "just blatantly, inarguably, untrue"? It all comes down to opinions in the end, regardless.

Brickroad
11-20-2007, 02:25 PM
If the only game you played growing up was Adventure (for Atari) with its 4-directional movement of a square, it would be the best game you ever played.

Oh man, at one point in time I had an Adventure fanpage. I'm not even kidding. It was awesome.

Remember, when that bat would steal your shit, and you'd kind of just want to murder him? Good times.

Anyway, I think I agree with the spirit of Tomm's point here. I don't know for certain if it's possible to say one game is objectively better than another, but if it were, I'd be pretty confident saying that Mario Galaxy is better than 64 and that TP is better than Adventure.

Still, the argument could be made both ways, depending on who is doing the arguing, what criteria are considered for a "good" game, etc. No game exists in a vacuum. Our perceptions are shaped by our experiences blah blah blah. If someone comes along and insists that Adventure is the better game, and they honestly believe it, who am I to argue?

That said, the entire time I was playing Galaxy (all 242 stars of it) I really was a kid again. It's the first game in god knows how long that's made me feel that way, and that's why I think it's a lot better than pretty much any other Mario game I can think of.

widdershins
11-20-2007, 03:22 PM
I can't agree to this. You're implying games (unlike movies, books, ANYTHING) cannot be objectively called "better" or "worse" than one another. And they can.

Actually, I apply this line of thought to movies, books and everything.


Now, years later, you plug in Twilight Princess. You play it, but it can't create that same feeling. everything is spelled out. Everything is complicated. You can't "be a kid again."

You're telling me in your post that Adventure is a better game than Twilight Princess.

For the hypothetical person in question, it may indeed be. I won't argue that there is a lot more technically to like about Twilight Princess, and I'm not a huge fan of either title really (but that's fodder for an entirely different discussion), but my only point is that there is a quality to games, and in fact all media, that is beyond the control of the creator.

In a sense, the goal of any art is to evoke feelings from someone. To then say that the feelings someone has when experiencing them can't used as a value judgement is a bit silly to me. Yes, it would be unfair for a reviewer to recommend a bad game because he got a good anecdote out of it, but it would be dishonest to say that there's not something of value inherent to something that can produce an emotional response, good or bad. The point for me is that it's ALL objective, and as such I find it hard to swallow something being INHERENTLY better or worse than something else. It's all in the eye of the beholder -- what they value and what they're willing to forgive.


That is just blatantly, inarguably, untrue.

Everything is arguable, my friend. It's what makes life interesting.


That said, the entire time I was playing Galaxy (all 242 stars of it) I really was a kid again. It's the first game in god knows how long that's made me feel that way, and that's why I think it's a lot better than pretty much any other Mario game I can think of.

This is the crux of it for me. I love Galaxy, but it doesn't make me feel like a kid again, at least not in the same way 64 does. That said, I'm sure I'll get a lot more out of it at the end of the day, but I don't think I can reasonably say that either is better than the other.

No disrespect meant Tomm, I actually agree with a good chunk of what you're saying... hope you don't read this as an attack or flame war or anything.

Tomm Guycot
11-20-2007, 04:11 PM
I'm not taking offense, but I do think y'all are wrong.

I'm not saying games can't mean MORE to one person than another. However, subjective personal opinions are not judges of actual quality. The game DOES exist outside of the players. It isn't, say, Woodstock, which is only experience. Games are tangible things anyone can pick up at any time to play.

Despite what the media does to exist, public opinion does not ACTUALLY shape reality.

Look at Jeremy's statement recently. He acknowledges that SMB3 is the BETTER GAME, but he LIKES Mario World BETTER.

That's not a contradiction. One is objectively better. One is his favorite and one he'd rather play.

People can play crap games. But people can't say crap games are GOOD games.

Parish
11-20-2007, 04:41 PM
Sure they can. "Good game" isn't entirely an objective call, and while I think something Xenosaga is genuinely bad a lot of people think it's genuinely good. Who's right? I can make a tidy bullet-point list of why it's a bad game, but they can make their own lists of why it's good. Ultimately you have to learn to compromise, because telling people their opinion is flat-out wrong simply because it doesn't jive with your own is a big step down the Path of the Comic Book Guy.

mopinks
11-20-2007, 05:06 PM
I was actually thinking about this...if they could, say, put out another Galaxy game in a year or two, with the same number of unique planets and things, I'd be all over it. I complain about sequels a lot, but remember the days where it just made sense to have more than one Mario game on a platform? I'd be all about it if it's anything like Galaxy is.

super agreed.
I've always admired Nintendo's general refusal to recycle assets and build each game from scratch, but damn it all, I want more of this.

BEAT
11-20-2007, 08:51 PM
I just beat the game. 71 stars at the end, so I've got some work to do.

As to this Weird Objectivity/subjectivity debate going on, I can only say that Super Mario Galaxy was Objectively great, and it's ending was Objectively trippy.

Ben1842
11-20-2007, 09:19 PM
I beat it a few hours ago. It was an awesome game. I had a hell of a time hitting Bowser in his rock form, but the rest of the game was great.

I think some terms are over used but I do think this is an instant classic.

It's one of the few games that have come out in the last few years that I can imagine playing 10 years from now.

I think the end might be a bit tough for the more casual Mario fan, but as a Hardcore gamer I thought it was just right and a ton of fun.

Brickroad
11-20-2007, 10:22 PM
super agreed.
I've always admired Nintendo's general refusal to recycle assets and build each game from scratch, but damn it all, I want more of this.

Hey, sign me up for Mario Galaxy 2, too.

Sporophyte
11-20-2007, 11:34 PM
Hey, sign me up for Mario Galaxy 2, too.

I want on that bandwagon too!

sfried
11-21-2007, 01:05 AM
Sure they can. "Good game" isn't entirely an objective call, and while I think something Xenosaga is genuinely bad a lot of people think it's genuinely good. Who's right? I can make a tidy bullet-point list of why it's a bad game, but they can make their own lists of why it's good. Ultimately you have to learn to compromise, because telling people their opinion is flat-out wrong simply because it doesn't jive with your own is a big step down the Path of the Comic Book Guy.

It still isn't right to put down a game, especially if it is touted as a sequel, as a bad game simply because it isn't judged for its own merits instead of its predecessor's. With that said, one might argue such and such aspect worked or didn't, or that such and such aspect works better within the realms of the game because it concentrates/docuses/enhances the gameplay rather than detracting from it. All in all, if the sequel doesn't play like any of its previous breatheren, it doesn't make it awful automatically. It might be a "bad sequel" sure, but "bad game" is an entirely different subject matter: Different gameplay systems, different gameplay styles.

widdershins
11-21-2007, 10:23 AM
Howdy again all.

I'm really loving the conversation here, but I figure we should probably get this thread back on topic.

To that end, I've created a new thread here (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?t=2196) to keep the discussion alive. The topic: How do we gauge quality in games?

I'd love to hear what y'all think.

Sprite
11-21-2007, 10:29 AM
Wow, Cosmic Luigi is, um... I don't know how I'll beat him.

Swordian
11-21-2007, 12:02 PM
Wow, Cosmic Luigi is, um... I don't know how I'll beat him.

I did the first Cosmic Luigi race this morning. Just do what he does and pass him when he screws up.

Tomm Guycot
11-21-2007, 06:25 PM
So I started a Luigi game today.

Man, he sure does control like crap, doesn't he? I have no idea how I'm going to get some of the trickier purple coin stars w/ this guy.

Is the bonus area worth it?


OH!!! I keep forgetting to ask this. You know those invisible footstep guys that will appear (as bags w/ feet) if you stand still? WTF am I supposed to do w/ them!?

Niku
11-21-2007, 07:45 PM
So I started a Luigi game today.
OH!!! I keep forgetting to ask this. You know those invisible footstep guys that will appear (as bags w/ feet) if you stand still? WTF am I supposed to do w/ them!?

Player 2 can hold them in place while you jump on them.

Swordian
11-21-2007, 08:15 PM
OH!!! I keep forgetting to ask this. You know those invisible footstep guys that will appear (as bags w/ feet) if you stand still? WTF am I supposed to do w/ them!?

Spin attack to hit them and then jump on them when they're stunned. You get a bundle of star bits for it.

BEAT
11-21-2007, 11:42 PM
You know those invisible footstep guys that will appear (as bags w/ feet) if you stand still? WTF am I supposed to do w/ them!?

Or you can grab a turtle shell, stand still and wait for them to appear, and then throw the shell into them.

Tomm Guycot
11-21-2007, 11:44 PM
responses

So, basically, continue to ignore them.

Got it.

Sprite
11-22-2007, 10:29 PM
Is the bonus area worth it?


From what I've heard, no. Purely there to congratulate you for completing the game with Weege. But hey, that's better than what Sunshine had, right?

Patrick
11-23-2007, 12:44 AM
I just beat it with 120 stars and unlocked Luigi!

I third (or fifth or whatever we're up to ) the idea for a SMG 2. In fact, I propose that all videogames from now on take place on tiny planets scattered through space. Also, does anyone know what that warp button thing next to the "most comfortable couch" on the starship does? I have a feeling that it leads to the new world that you get for finding all 120 stars as Luigi, but it was driving me crazy, so I thought I'd check.

Eirikr
11-23-2007, 12:52 AM
Also, does anyone know what that warp button thing next to the "most comfortable couch" on the starship does? I have a feeling that it leads to the new world that you get for finding all 120 stars as Luigi, but it was driving me crazy, so I thought I'd check.

That's what I thought too!

...but it's just a warp to a higher level of the ship.

SlimJimm
11-23-2007, 09:30 AM
I have no idea how anyone can get 120 stars. Time limits on collecting all purple coins in a level and the "side scrolling" Battlerock/Dreadnought levels are bullshit. Miss a few? Well better start over because you will just lose a life when you get to the end!
Fuck you stars! ARRG

Other than that the game was cool.

And Tomm, for the invisible bag-guys just watch where they are by looking at their feet and spin into them. You dont need to have them visible to hurt them. Once stunned just run into them for 20 star bits.

Ben1842
11-23-2007, 12:03 PM
I think this is the first week that I have beaten both fun club selections.

It's been a great week. lol

mopinks
11-24-2007, 11:59 AM
it was hard to be separated from Galaxy for three whole days, but I just didn't feel comfortable taking my Wii on the plane.

up to 101 stars! THE HOME STRETCH
I got the Toy Time purple coin star on like my tenth try. that was a real kick in the stones, but it was great fun.

LBD_Nytetrayn
11-24-2007, 03:42 PM
...time limits on purple coins? Ugh, I hate time limits...

How bad is it?

Does Flying Mario appear ANYWHERE besides on the observatory?

And I think this might be one of the best Bowser defeats ever. It's like they took the lava pool to the next level.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

mopinks
11-24-2007, 04:02 PM
I personally haven't had any real trouble with the timed purple coin stars. they can seem a little daunting at first, but after losing a few Marios you usually see what they want you to do and it's not so bad from there.

but your mileage may vary!

Sprite
11-24-2007, 10:21 PM
The timed purple stars are actually not that bad, as the game throws bones your way, whether giving hints as to the location of coins, telling you how many you should have at a certain point, or putting more than 100 coins in the level. The Toy Galaxy 100 coin star is probably the hardest in the game, but not as impossible as it seems at first. Try your best!

...Is this Fun Club over soon? Cause I liked it a lot. Three seperate threads was definitely a good idea.

LBD_Nytetrayn
11-25-2007, 03:50 AM
Hmm, ok, glad to hear it's not that bad.

Now, how much should I dread playing as Luigi?

I just wonder because the thought of getting all the stars here is enticing, in part due to the fact that I got nowhere close in Sunshine, and have come up a little short of the 120/150 in 64.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

Swordian
11-25-2007, 07:02 AM
Now, how much should I dread playing as Luigi?


Dread? Playing as Luigi is awesome.

LBD_Nytetrayn
11-25-2007, 06:12 PM
That's good to hear. Hearing about Cosmic Luigi and Luigi's slipperiness had me worried.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"