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Parish
12-11-2007, 09:50 PM
Phase One of the SaGa endeavor begins. We're gonna grok the highs and lows of this series. Ohhh, and are there some lows.

Final Fantasy Legend
Square | RPG | Game Boy | 1990

Has anyone ever noticed that the Japanese title of this game (Makaitoushi SaGa) is weirdly reminiscent of the creator's given name (Akitoshi)? Coincidence or hubris? Let's climb a tower together and kill God, and discuss.

Mewd
12-11-2007, 11:15 PM
I never finished this game. Humans took too much grinding to use. Mutants were overpowered but remarkably inconsistent. Monsters were just unreliable.

I got stuck in that area with the dozen or so caves and island interconnected in a big sea. I stopped trying.

Shadax
12-11-2007, 11:27 PM
Wow, the Pain SaGa begins the same moment that my Christmas Break does. This holiday is going to suck.
Oh well, time to try and figure out an optimal party to see if I can blow through this in a week while catching up on the rest of the best albums of 2007.

SDMX
12-11-2007, 11:27 PM
Holds the title of Best game of my childhood alongside Link's Awakening, and (seriously) one of the reasons I left organized religion. It's had an incredibly profound effect on my life, even if it hasn't aged well.

Also, really fucking hard for a ten-year old. Every other RPG I played after that, however, was impeccably easy to parse, thus cementing me into the genre.

Sanagi
12-11-2007, 11:30 PM
There's nothing in FFL that wasn't done better in FFL2. And the horrible idea of characters having a limited number of ressurections is enough to stop me from playing it again.

Although it was cool, in a stupid kind of way, that you could choose not to hire a full party.

Shadax
12-11-2007, 11:30 PM
and (seriously) one of the reasons I left organized religion.

That's sort of awesome. Care to share?

Sanagi
12-11-2007, 11:37 PM
That's sort of awesome. Care to share?
I'm guessing that after finishing the game he was inspired to actually go out and kill God with a chainsaw.

SDMX
12-11-2007, 11:54 PM
That's sort of awesome. Care to share?

The Boss and the Ending opened up the concept of the Malevolent God and alternate ideas of creation to me for the first time. It really was that kind of pulling back the curtain on the Wizard moment, where after I beat the game I went and sat on my porch for a while, my brain buzzing about the parallelism between this wonderful game that I just finished and my Christian life up to that point.

The next day in Sunday School I got into an argument that lead to a mutual shouting match between myself and my pastor concerning creationist theory and God's sudden shift in attitude from Old to New testament. He couldn't answer anything with any logical satisfaction, and resorted to all sorts of circular logic. When class got out, it occurred to me that this man who has dedicated his life to his faith couldn't calmly answer the simple questions of a ten-year old. I honestly loved this incredibly kind man up to that point, and now all I had was this resounding pity that he had stopped looking for answers so that he could feel safe with an explanation that couldn't satisfy a kid like me.

When I home, I told my mother what happened in very calm tones and asked if I could stop going to Church. We did.

Seriously, Sanagi's story was better. Glass Sword though. Man, that thing was brutal. =V

joffeorama
12-12-2007, 12:14 AM
Aw man, this was my least favorite of the game boy Sagas. Grinding took way to long. But what the hell, we doin' this.

Shadax
12-12-2007, 12:28 AM
So I keep wandering out of town and fighting lizards for a net gain of 2-5 GP after healing until I run into a REDBULL and promptly have half of my party slaughtered. Now, even with winning skills like that, I figured the Redbulls were a bit beyond my abilities and run when I encounter one, but between level up potions and new weapons, it looks like I'm already fighting a losing resource battle here.

DrSenbei
12-12-2007, 12:34 AM
Get all the grinding for your humies out of the way in the first world when you get the Kings Sword and use all your monies to buy Spellbooks for your mutes. You'll rule everything.

What happaned to Coinspinners Legend 2 thread? His play echoes my memories exactly (WTF everything is too hard all of a sudden run awaaay) so I want to see how he gets past Odin and the ensuing gauntlet. I never did. Enlighten us!

alexb
12-12-2007, 01:43 AM
Where did you guys get this game? It hasn't been sold in 15 years. The admittedly shallow well of local Gamestops has turned up dry, too. Are you all folks who happen to have it from years back? I want in on this, but I'm not sure how I'm going to do it. If anybody has an alternate methods of getting ahold of this game, drop me a PM, if you would.

joffeorama
12-12-2007, 02:39 AM
Ok, this game is much more frustrating than I remember it being. I don't know if I can do this. None of the balance from Legend 2 is here, its just a big mess. Mutants grow fast, but not in any controllable way, Humans require way too much money to advance and Monsters suck way more than usual. The resource battle in the first world takes forever to overcome. Call me next month of Legend 2 or Saga Frontier (or Romancing Saga 3! it has a kung fu lobster!).

Eusis
12-12-2007, 02:48 AM
I'm going to check to see if I can get this locally. If not, I'll just wait until we hit RSG, SGF2, or god forbid USG.

Jakanden
12-12-2007, 02:49 AM
Yeah I think I will pass on this one and give the alt a shot. I was never a fan of FFL even when growing up (I still haven't finished it to this day).

alexb
12-12-2007, 04:16 AM
Okay, I've done a little research. Apparently, most people recommend that you create a party of two humans, a mutant, and a monster. The monster apparently takes a bit of planning. Basically, if you have it eat meat from weaker monsters, it makes your monster weaker. So you have to be careful. I'm still looking for info (and the game). If there's a table or something that points the path to the best monster, that would be helpful....

GeoX
12-12-2007, 08:04 AM
This was the first console RPG I ever played. I have lost count of the number of times I've played through it, but it's certainly in the double digits (including once with just one character). In my defense, I was a kid for most of those playthroughs. Plus, it's pretty short. Anyway, the odds are very good that I can answer any question anyone might have about it.

I think it's sort of overthinking things to complain about the leveling and so on. It's really NOT a difficult game (although it sure was to my inexperienced twelve-year-old self!); you don't need to do much level-grinding unless you really want to--you will gain sufficient cash/meat/mutations in the regular course of the game. Really. You especially shouldn't sweat monster leveling--eating meat more or less at random will certainly net you some dud monsters, but their abilities WILL trend upwards, and by the time you get to the last level, you'll hardly be able to AVOID getting super kickass monsters that you don't even meet as enemies. The game isn't hard enough that they have to be super-optimized at all times (and unlike FFLII, they aren't worthless until towards the end of the game). If you want a boost at the very beginning, though, choose a redbull as your main character (or a wererat as one of your subsidiary characters). Those guys do mad damage in the first world--plus, if I remember correctly, making one or the other (not sure which) eat the meat from the p-frog sub-boss will turn him into an oni--an enemy from a higher level of the tower. Pwned!

Now, my pointless and discursive opinions. FFL is definitely...crude in many ways, and my high regard for it is tainted by nostalgia. That goes without saying. But I really think the game HAS something that a lot of games don't. The dark, minimalistic story arcs are quite evocative in their own way (especially in the world of ruin), and how ABOUT those weird, inexplicable areas you come across in the tower? The mini-island area near the bottom where everyone lives an idle existence? The place before the sky world with all the statues? The old man in the hut in the field (apparently Ryu-O, though it's all very vague) that gives you excalibur? And HOLY HELL, how about the area with the dead children and the diary that refers to characters who never appear in the game? Insanity! They were clearly going for some abstruse religious allegory, and damned if they don't sorta kinda succeed. No, it doesn't add up to anything particularly coherent, but it's still super-interesting, for my money. Of course, FFLII is a better game by any objective standard (and I'm a big fan of it as well), but there's just something about the original...

Anyway, that's all. I'm sorry for blighting this thread with my half-mad ramblings.

Parish
12-12-2007, 08:32 AM
Where did you guys get this game?
I got it a week ago on eBay for about ten bucks. But with a game of this vintage emulation is no moral crime. In fact, I may decide playing it on GBA is too annoying and emulate it even through I bought the cart specifically for this purpose.

Yeah, what do you think about that, ESA? HUH?

Tomm Guycot
12-12-2007, 10:11 AM
I really hate you guys for making me want to play this.

Shadax
12-12-2007, 10:37 AM
But with a game of this vintage emulation is no moral crime.
Yeah, what do you think about that, ESA? HUH?

This is one of those games that I can't imagine playing without the turbo button locked down.

Alixsar
12-12-2007, 12:42 PM
I legitimately enjoyed FFL3, but I never played the first two...I might give it a shot once finals are over.

Rai
12-12-2007, 04:22 PM
I can honestly say that this is the Fun Club that made me rejoin, if only because of all the memories I have of this game. And FFL2, but those don't come into play until whenever this game finishes.

I remember back in the halcyon days of my youth, we had just moved up north to where my family currently resides, and we were scoping out the Wal-Mart. By scoping out, I mean my Mom was picking up random stuff we needed around the house, and I found myself wandering back to the games section, as I do. Natural instinct, I swear. Back in those days, I had one of the Game Boy bricks, a clear one, and I had money to burn.

But just about everything was entirely too expensive for me. Not to mention I really couldn't be sure of the quality for most games. But after my 100th run through of Metroid II, even Battleship would have made me happy. That view would change when I actually received GB Battleship. Lucky for me, though, my mom noticed a special sale, three games for about $25. I only had $20 at the time, but my mom, in her absolute kindness, would spring for the last one. The three games in question? Final Fantasy Legends 1 and 2, and Final Fantasy Adventure.

Years later, I can say that these are the games that pulled me into RPGs, being far too poor to afford a console myself until just before the Gamecube was released. Many are the hours I wasted away playing FFL2 and FFA.

FFL1 was entirely too eh for me though. It wasn't my first time playing the game, a babysitter of mine used to own it, but it also never really struck me as fun. My characters were always too weak to just run through the worlds with minimal grinding, and my 12 year old self couldn't stand the amount of fighting it took to even reach the point where my humans were easily breezing through the world. Mutants were entirely too random for my tastes, though useful, and monsters just seemed eh.

A lot of FFL1 still sticks with me though. The weird half-worlds that have already been mentioned, Suzaku's world, and even the final area of the world. It could be an eerie game in it's own right, at least to me back then, and I still enjoyed it, even if 2 was worlds above 1 in every respect possible. Though not the ending, since I always stopped just before killing god. Which, now that I think about it, is the exact same place I always left off in FFL2. And now I'm not sure if I even beat FFA.

Guess I've got some winter break homework after all.

GeoX
12-12-2007, 04:44 PM
You don't kill GOD God in FFLII, just a bunch of pagan gods. So that's all right! I have to say, the bosses in that game could be real sons of bitches--a far cry from the original, where they have too few hit points to be effective. I think that damned Arsenal may be the hardest last boss I've ever come across.

alexb
12-12-2007, 04:49 PM
I have to say that the SaGa games have always had a sort of exoticism to them. There's a sense of mystery to the game mechanics and the plots, fragmentary as they are, tend to be more esoteric and strange than what Sakaguchi was doing at the same time with the FF series.

Egarwaen
12-12-2007, 05:27 PM
FFL3 was the first FF I played, even though it wasn't really an FF. I still have a kind of soft spot for it, with its charmingly old-school mechanics and clumsy attempts at a time travel storyline. There's some really cool stuff there. So I think I'll give the other games in the series a shot, even if FFL1's "levelling" mechanics seem like something out of a particularly sadistic game design handbook. ;)

alexb
12-12-2007, 05:55 PM
FFL1's "levelling" mechanics seem like something out of a particularly sadistic game design handbook.

Now you're catching on!

Zen
12-12-2007, 07:27 PM
Oh my God. Back when my parents wouldn't let me have an SNES and I was trapped in the Game Boy Ghetto this game was manna. I was obsessed with FF2us, and to see the name on a box at the store was too much to take.

The fact that I got stuck in the second world didn't stop me from maxing out my party like crazy. Too bad I traded it away :<. I later temporarily traded my copy of FFL2 for this so a friend and I could catch up on our gaps in the series, so I got to beat it in high school, but when I gave him back FFL1 he didn't give back my FFL2, and then I lost the third one. Kind of a Shakespearean end.

I really, really dug the creepy bits of story in the tower. I also couldn't believe that the last boss of the Game Boy game I got stuck on in fifth grade was God. At the time I really didn't see it coming. Also, the future world and all that rot were really creatively implemented, and work better than their followup tries in later SaGa games. This game stunk with potential the series never found.

Still, the other two "FFL" games are way better, and I played the everliving out of them.

Tomm Guycot
12-12-2007, 10:37 PM
Waitasecond... There are no level up messages?

No wonder this game confused the hell out of me as a kid.

reibeatall
12-12-2007, 10:40 PM
Ok, so I really suck at being a pirate. Could somebody please direct me towards a place where I could find a ROM and emulator for this? Just PM me, por favor.

Edit: Thank you, fellow outlaws. Now I can "stick it to the man."

Tomm Guycot
12-12-2007, 10:51 PM
Seriously guys - any tips on leveling? My HP hasn't budged.

My party is as such:

Krin - Human Male
Tila - Human Female
Geda - Mutant Female
Nyx - Monster

Equipment (style) advice is also welcome. Right now Krin's got a Longsword, Tila has a Rapier and Whip, Geda has a Rapier. All the armor is going to Krin and Tila right now. Should I be doing this differently?

Other comments:
The music in this game kicks ass.

Mightyblue
12-12-2007, 11:27 PM
Longsword types, axe types, spear types all rely on STR for damage (and AGI for accuracy), while rapiers, guns, bows, and whips all rely on AGI for damage and accuracy. There are exceptions, but they're kinda rare. Books rely on MANA (obviously enough), and the best ones are obscenely expensive.

DrSenbei
12-12-2007, 11:34 PM
IIRC you can only boost HP through HP UP Potions
HOWEVER!
You can abuse the random number generation to always get the best stat boost from potions. I can't remember what the best gain for HP is, but I do know you are better off buying loads of cheap potions and resetting your game ad nauseam rather then throwing your money away on a few expensive ones.
Thank you Tomm now I can't get the battle theme outta my head. Maybe I'll buckle down and revisit my childhood with this one.

Shadax
12-12-2007, 11:46 PM
Tomm, your best bet would be to go to the town of Hero (SE of the Tower) and pick up Bows for your female party members immediately. Those are what propelled me through World 1 and a good portion of World 2, and they are cheap at only 50 G. As for getting hit points, you're stuck purchasing and quaffing HP200 after HP200 and hoping for the best. If you are tight on money, hard resetting (a soft reset doesn't clear the RNG) until you get 16+ HP or more on your potion is your best bet, but after a certain point 100 G becomes another 5 seconds in the Tower, so I wouldn't sweat it.

Also, don't be afraid to move your mutant to the front of the party, since I had the same party you have (only named Beef, Egg, Rice, and Polo) and by the time I got into the party, she had something like 450 HP. Having her in the front means that she'll absorb a good portion of the blows directed at your party, leaving everyone else happy and full of hearts.

Shadax
12-12-2007, 11:54 PM
Also, for everyone in World 1 still, how about them Karatekas? It's always pleasant whenever the boss is surrounded by random encounters far more powerful than him (I think, I killed him in one hit due to the fact that Rice, my mutant female was something of a combat goddess at that point) that are more than capable of making sure that no monster in your party survives into round two?

Speaking of which, Gamefaqs has a pretty interesting monster meat faq with how to tip the scales to get the most powerful monsters in world one. I'm thinking about trying it out since my save in world three disappeared due to me forgetting to check on battery power until it was too late, and it's going to take something exciting for me to hop back on that train.

Sanagi
12-13-2007, 02:45 AM
There's three ways to use monsters:

1. Don't. You miss out on some cool stuff, but they're also crap a lot of the time. I just wish the game would notice when you don't have any monsters and skip offering meat after battle.
2. Only eat boss meat. You're pretty much guaranteed to get strong monsters this way. I generally use this tactic in both FFL1 and FFL2. It takes the least effort.
3. Use a FAQ. The system's too damn complicated to figure out on your own(and it's even worse in FFL2 - at least in the first game the transformations can be explained in a single chart).

Ps. Eating boss meat is a good way to get a promotion in real life, too.

Egarwaen
12-13-2007, 07:28 AM
Seriously guys - any tips on leveling?

Information obtained from GameFAQs, so spoilered for those who'd rather work it out on their own. (Poor suckers)

Apparently, you don't. Mutants gain stats as a result of activity in battle, FF2-style. Humans gain stats only by consuming potions that permanently raise their HP or attributes. Monsters gain stats only by consuming monster meat, and even then only if the meat makes them transform into a higher-level monster.

ringworm
12-13-2007, 07:48 AM
Ok, so I really suck at being a pirate. Could somebody please direct me towards a place where I could find a ROM and emulator for this? Just PM me, por favor.
I could use similar help. I went so far as to download a "1,414 Game Boy Games!" torrent, only to find that none of the FFL games are included (except II and III and even then only in their Japanese SaGa form).

Tomm Guycot
12-13-2007, 08:46 AM
So far dumbest thing in the game:

The LAST member in your party is the one that talks to people... WTF?

As for Karatekas, they were easy in Sword Castle when my mutant had "Ice". It'd kill the entire group in two shots. But um... now Ice is gone. Is there any way to retain abilities on your mutant?

Mightyblue
12-13-2007, 08:53 AM
The bottom ability is what disappears, and you can rearrange items and abilities on the equip screen...

Tomm Guycot
12-13-2007, 10:18 AM
The bottom ability is what disappears, and you can rearrange items and abilities on the equip screen...

How? I think you are thinking of FFL2.

Parish
12-13-2007, 11:06 AM
I played my first few minutes of this last night, and wow -- talk about obtuse.

Egarwaen
12-13-2007, 11:10 AM
Yeah, here, I think mutant abilities just randomly change sometimes for no discernible reason.

Tomm Guycot
12-13-2007, 11:18 AM
The one thing I do remember from a very old strategy book (you know, the all-text novel-shaped ones that had like 50 games in them)...

Mutants only gain abilities if they're the ones to end the battle.

Which means of course the stronger they are, the more likely they will continue to get stronger.

Balanced by the fact they could just RANDOMLY LOSE ALL ATTACK SKILLS

Sven
12-13-2007, 11:53 AM
I think the lesson here is quite simple: FFL2 is really good, but the original wouldn't have let you in on the fact that there's the potential for a game like that.

There's a couple locations in the tower later on that are RIFE for grinding abuse if you've got mutants with reasonable attack abilities.

Get all the grinding for your humies out of the way in the first world when you get the Kings Sword and use all your monies to buy Spellbooks for your mutes. You'll rule everything.

The hands-down best strategy for beating the first world - the Kings Sword is FREE TO USE. Lesson #1 of FFL games: If you get a weapon / ability with "---" in the usage column, do EVERYTHING you possibly can to not give it away.

For those who haven't started yet: for the love of all that's holy, pick a RedBull as your party leader. Early-level humans and mutants are just damage attractors, whereas having that RedBull around gives you a shot at doing a few battles' worth of decent damage before retreating to an inn.

The worlds get better as you go along, IMHO, but then that last section... it's just painful.

Oh, and carry around a "STONE" spellbook in World 4. I'm sure you'll figure out why.

I'm not going to start a new game until I beat Case 4 of Trials & Tribulations, though.

Gredlen
12-13-2007, 12:56 PM
I played my first few minutes of this last night, and wow -- talk about obtuse.

Obtuse is exactly the word I was thinking when I saw this topic. I played this game back when I was... 10? and I could not, for the life of me, wrap my head around any of the gameplay mechanics.

I'll try my hand at it again, but I don't expect to be playing for very long.

alexb
12-13-2007, 01:19 PM
I think we've all learned a valuable lesson here. Anytime a game has the work "makai" in its title, you know it's a shorthand for the phrase "difficult, esoteric, and unfriendly."

Tomm Guycot
12-13-2007, 01:28 PM
Don't get me wrong, I love it.

It's one of those oldschool RPGs that has a flavor of its own. It's very endearing, and I plan to tough it out through the mechanics.

What is interesting to me is that this is one of the first portable RPGs (by far the best of the first). It's interesting to see what they thought would work / wouldn't work.

Sven
12-13-2007, 02:01 PM
What is interesting to me is that this is one of the first portable RPGs (by far the best of the first). It's interesting to see what they thought would work / wouldn't work.

Most important addition, I think, was the "save anywhere" feature. It sure didn't kill any of the tension of the game, although that was because the encounter rate seemingly reset if you used it. But they recognised that you couldn't simply trek back to the overworld in order to save the game if it was a portable game, which was a necessary revelation. Too bad Square didn't take it to heart in the "real" FF games, however....

The limited-hearts thing is also interesting: was it to force players to be more conservative with their party? Or was it a measure to balance out the ability to abuse the game a bit with the save-anywhere feature? So if you saved before a boss (... not that there's many of those, mind you...), then beat it but lost a character, was the design intent to *make* you go back and re-play the battle?

All that said, the last boss in FFL is so much more fun than the last boss of FFL2. Whomever thought up that finish ought to be taken out back and tossed into the privy.

alexb
12-13-2007, 02:08 PM
I can't quite write off the Saga games, even the completely batshit ones like Frontier and Unlimited. I don't know. But that's the point of this exercise, I think. To try to figure out what makes these games such a siren song.

Mightyblue
12-13-2007, 02:32 PM
I can't quite write off the Saga games, even the completely batshit ones like Frontier and Unlimited. I don't know. But that's the point of this exercise, I think. To try to figure out what makes these games such a siren song.We tend to call it "sadomasochism" in my neck of the woods.

alexb
12-13-2007, 04:05 PM
I like how the skeletons in this game look like pimps.

Tomm Guycot
12-13-2007, 04:07 PM
I like how the skeletons in this game look like pimps.

What do you mean, "look like"?

alexb
12-13-2007, 04:43 PM
True. Would anyone other than a true pimp attack with his bone?

Still, the mechanics seem totally jacked. Between the unstoppable killing power of the mutants and the relatively cheap strength and agility potions, it seems like they want you to break the game.

Mightyblue
12-13-2007, 05:01 PM
Well, that's until the merciless difficulty breaks you, but that's fairly typical for the SaGa series.

Egarwaen
12-13-2007, 07:33 PM
Still, the mechanics seem totally jacked. Between the unstoppable killing power of the mutants and the relatively cheap strength and agility potions, it seems like they want you to break the game.

And the fact that you can max out your monster(s) before leaving world 1...

Sanagi
12-13-2007, 08:13 PM
The bottom ability is what disappears, and you can rearrange items and abilities on the equip screen...

How? I think you are thinking of FFL2.

Yes. This is probably the second biggest reason I never went back to the first game after playing the second(the first being stupid limited number of ressurections dammit).

alexb
12-13-2007, 08:30 PM
Is world one the area where you begin, or is it the tropical island area that you get to through the tower?

Shadax
12-13-2007, 08:46 PM
What do you mean, "look like"?

alexb
12-13-2007, 08:59 PM
Very nice, sir. But let me do you one better. Please accept, with my humble thanks.

http://personal.ecu.edu/bakera/skelepimp.jpg

Shadax
12-13-2007, 09:11 PM
done and done. Thanks!

Egarwaen
12-13-2007, 09:29 PM
Is world one the area where you begin, or is it the tropical island area that you get to through the tower?

I don't know the lingo. It's the area where you begin. There's a FAQ that has one sequence, but there's probably others.

Given the fiddly-ness of the monster system, I don't particularly care about working it out for myself. ;)

Tomm Guycot
12-13-2007, 09:30 PM
done and done. Thanks!

WHat was there originally dammit?

Shadax
12-13-2007, 09:36 PM
WHat was there originally dammit?

a black and white and slightly off center screen cap I took in my haste.

Tomm Guycot
12-13-2007, 10:09 PM
I will say, this is the only JRPG I've played where "Critical Hit" literally means Critical Hit and the monster dies.

Shadax
12-13-2007, 10:13 PM
I will say, this is the only JRPG I've played where "Critical Hit" literally means Critical Hit and the monster dies.
This is also the first rpg I've played where a Wolf is actually a tiger.

alexb
12-13-2007, 10:15 PM
They've got four legs, teeth, and a tail. Who's gonna notice?

Tomm Guycot
12-13-2007, 10:39 PM
...are there stat maximums per world?

I keep buying items but they uh... seem to be wasted money.

Shadax
12-13-2007, 10:43 PM
...are there stat maximums per world?

I keep buying items but they uh... seem to be wasted money.

I believe the maximum you can raise a stat is 255ish for humans and 99 for mutants. But I know that the key to beating the game with a single character is maxing them out in the first world after you have the King equipment, so I don't believe there is. What are your stats at?

Rai
12-13-2007, 10:44 PM
As far as I know, there aren't. The HP-200s doesn't raise HP past 200 effectively. Anytime you use one on a human afterwards, it'll only raise the HP by 1.

I'm not sure on the other stat items for humans. They're hella expensive.

Mutants don't have limited growth though. That 30 strength I accrued is definitely helping.

alexb
12-13-2007, 11:04 PM
For now they are. They become very cheap very quickly. If you've got a mutant, she'll get so strong that you can one-shot most enemies in the starting world before they can even act. Which is like free money. So just swig away at those potions.

Also, if an HP600 costs 5000GP and at best will only net you 20 more HP, why would you ever buy it over buying 20 HP200s at 100 a pop for a total of 2000GP to get the same results as an absolutely perfect roll?

DrSenbei
12-14-2007, 12:25 AM
Careful you crazy stat buffers, you're playing a dangerous game of hexidecimal roulette. You can get your stats over 255... at which point they reset to 1. So I've heard. The games easy enough that you don't need to be that silly CHAINSAWWWWWW

Shadax
12-14-2007, 12:31 AM
Careful you crazy stat buffers, you're playing a dangerous game of hexidecimal roulette.

A fun fact compounded by the fact that once you hit 99 it quits showing you what your real score is!

Shadax
12-14-2007, 12:52 AM
The laziness/hardware limitations of using the exact same sprite for groups of similar enemies never ceases to crack me up:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/shadax665/DGEmucomFinalFantasyLegendTheUtn0.png
I've never seen a shark so... genial

(the same sprite is also used for Barracudas, Piranhas, Electric Eels, and Leviathans. Also, Gunfish.)

alexb
12-14-2007, 01:11 AM
But not coelacanths?

Zen
12-14-2007, 06:04 AM
What? You can push your humans past 99? Grr...

Sven
12-14-2007, 06:15 AM
Is world one the area where you begin, or is it the tropical island area that you get to through the tower?

Yeah. World One = Generic fantasy world
World Two = Water

Worlds Three & Four... well, this thread's only been up a couple of days, so let's wait and see who makes it that far. Know that the "riddle" in world 2 is exactly what it appears to be.

Parish
12-14-2007, 08:36 AM
I've never seen a shark so... genial
"Hi there! Nice to eat, er, meet you!"

I finally made it over the initial learning hump and polished off the first boss. You know what made it easier? The realization that you can scroll down in the shop list and buy armor. The P-Frog is much tougher when you're nekkid.

Sporophyte
12-14-2007, 09:07 AM
I started a 2 mutant 2 monster game for this play through. Initially one of my mutants kept dieing, but rather than bother reviving him I'd just strip him of weapons and replace him with a new guy who looks suspiciously similar and has the same name. Once the second mutant powered up a bit life became much easier.
I took the cheap option and power leveled my monsters up to the highest forms right away. It took a bit of grinding before I remembered these games have easily manipulated random number generators. By savinging and reseting you will always fight the same monsters in any given area. This allows acquisitions of specific meats in record times. Also in the process of doing this the mutants leveled to super beings with 99 strength and 99 agility respectively.
I'm at world 4 now and all around this is a fun little game and I'm glad to replay it, but FFL2 and 3 are pretty significant upgrades from it.

Tomm Guycot
12-14-2007, 10:20 AM
Wait, there's some trick to leveling monsters?

:(

(Yes I know they just eat meat--but you make it sound like you can max them in world 1? what?)

Egarwaen
12-14-2007, 10:58 AM
Wait, there's some trick to leveling monsters?

:(

(Yes I know they just eat meat--but you make it sound like you can max them in world 1? what?)

Yes. There's a guide on GameFAQs. The short version is spoilered:

When a monster eats meat, two things happen:

1) Its family changes.
2) Its level changes.

The family change is based on the family of the meat and the family of the monster. Each family has certain monsters in it, with attached levels. Level is determined by either your level or the level of the meat (whichever's higher) and the levels of the monsters in the new family:

1) If there's a monster one level higher than your level/meat's level, you become that monster.
2) If there's a monster at your level/meat's level, you become that monster.
3) Otherwise, you become the next monster down the list. If there's none, you become the level 1 monster from that family.

So by eating meat from the right families to progressively climb levels one step at a time, you can max out your monster in World 1. This has another nifty property: once you've maxed out your monster, it's impossible to ever go down in level, so you can eat whatever meat you want.

Finch
12-14-2007, 04:33 PM
Careful you crazy stat buffers, you're playing a dangerous game of hexidecimal roulette. You can get your stats over 255... at which point they reset to 1. So I've heard. The games easy enough that you don't need to be that silly CHAINSAWWWWWW

10-year old me beat the game pretty easily with max displayed stats, so i don't think it's necessary to go a step over 99. You can hit your hp up to 4096 too. If you really need that, you're not trying.

I don't know why, but I always saw Creator as the creator of the game itself. I always thought that was really strange.

Zen
12-14-2007, 09:05 PM
I don't know why, but I always saw Creator as the creator of the game itself. I always thought that was really strange.

So what you're saying is this game has the same ending as Star Ocean 3?

Mightyblue
12-14-2007, 09:23 PM
Man, can't believe this slipped my mind. For those of you playing an emulated version, there are a few bugfix patches,

This one (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/327/) fixes the King Shield, ESP, and the Glass sword.

The second (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/330/) clears up some skill and item names.

Shadax
12-14-2007, 09:27 PM
This one (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/327/) fixes the King Shield, ESP, and the Glass sword.

I was going to post those, but then I realized that no one actually wants the Glass Sword to only have one use.

Edit: is it just me or was world 3 really short?
it could just be that it was pretty straightforward afterall that island nonsense in world 2

Parish
12-15-2007, 03:18 PM
Just made it to world two. Or however you want to describe it. The topology of this world is very, very strange.

I decided to drop the monster in my party after it died AGAIN in a single hit despite being at maximum health. Now it's two humans and two mutants, and the replacement mutant has already proven to be considerably more durable and useful than the monster. So sad.

Shadax
12-15-2007, 03:26 PM
Now it's two humans and two mutants, and the replacement mutant has already proven to be considerably more durable and useful than the monster. So sad.

I've been waiting for my monster to die so I can do this, but my mutant seems to be entirely way to capable of absorbing several hundred HP of damage, and I can't bring myself to just stick poor Polo in the front of the party and get it over with.

Sanagi
12-15-2007, 05:25 PM
One thing that I really loved about FFL1 and FFL2 was their crazy world design, especially the concept in the first game of the whole world just being floors of a big tower. That really sparked my imagination.

Red Hedgehog
12-15-2007, 09:47 PM
Wow. So I started playing this game this and I would have been totally lost if I didn't glance through this topic beforehand. I'm curious to find the instruction booklet to see how much information that imparts. Because, even after a few hours of play there are still two things I have no clue about. 1) What causes my mutant to gain/lose abilities and gain stats? and 2) How the hell do I make my Red Bull turn into something more powerful?

That said, it has its charm and I just finished the first world and am grinding gold a little bit to get all the spells before I go on to the next one.

The only Legend game (or even SaGa game) I've played before is Final Fantasy Legend III which is pretty close to a traditional JRPG. Only the whole eating meat/installing parts thing makes it stand out and that is pretty sensible.

Egarwaen
12-16-2007, 09:20 AM
That said, it has its charm and I just finished the first world and am grinding gold a little bit to get all the spells before I go on to the next one.

Don't bother. Spells work just like weapons, in that they're items and take up one of your 8 inventory slots or a slot on a character. Since only Mutants can really use them, and they only get four slots, and they need at least two for armor and one for a weapon...

Tomm Guycot
12-16-2007, 10:07 AM
Is every weapon with a sword icon "Strength" based?

Are guns Strength or Agility based?

Mightyblue
12-16-2007, 10:31 AM
Most weapons with a Sword icon are strength based, most rapier-esque weapons are agility based. There are exceptions, like the Psi weapons which use Mana as their stat. Guns are almost always agility based.

Tomm Guycot
12-16-2007, 10:40 AM
I'm still in World 2, but I was glancing at the old Nintendo Power Game Boy strat guide, as it has a section on this game. I liked seeing World 4 and noticing Tokyo Tower, and that you get the ROM item from "Akiba."

I enjoy noticing clear Tokyo nods in modern games, and finding ones in an archaic game from before I really had a sense of the world is super awesome.

EDIT:

Also, to support the Talking Time Grand Unification Theory (TTGUT), I originally purchased FFL on the day that Batman Returns was released to theaters. I read the manual while shopping with my mom, got home, played through world 1, went to karate, changed and went to the theater, ate El Pollo Loco, and then struggled through world 2 while waiting for the movie to start. I clearly remember fighting Red Bulls in line and in the theater. How in the WORLD I saw my GB screen in the dark I'll never know.

Parish
12-16-2007, 03:47 PM
I'm finding this game to be unexpectedly enjoyable. Sadly, my GBA is out of juice as I near the end of World Two, and every GBA charger on the planet appears to have vanished. We only have one at the office, and it stays with whomever is stuck using a DS Fat lockbox. What the hell.

Dadgum Roi
12-16-2007, 04:02 PM
I wish I could participate in this; I have really fond memories of this being one of the first and only Game Boy games to really grab me and suck me in. I'd been longing for an RPG on the GB since the first day I got it for those long car rides to my grandparents' house in South Carolina. I think I finally got rid of it in the Great Postnuptial Game Purge a few years back.

What are the GBA remakes called? I can't find anything about them.

Parish
12-16-2007, 04:06 PM
There were no GBA remakes. The original was released for WonderSwan Color as "Makai Toushi SaGa" and the most recent release in the series was a sort of grand SaGa mash-up loosely based on the first Super Famicom title called Romancing SaGa.

Dadgum Roi
12-16-2007, 04:13 PM
Ah...I didn't realize that the GBA could play games from the original Game Boy. I think my daughter has an old GBA lying around somewhere, too.

Tomm Guycot
12-16-2007, 04:24 PM
Man... once you kill Sei-Ryu in world 2 and blow all the loot on Strength and Agility potions, you really start breaking the damage barrier. This is rad.

mopinks
12-16-2007, 04:28 PM
it... it just dawned on me that I actually own this game. for some reason I was thinking I only had (the totally awesome) Final Fantasy Adventure, which I actually lost years and years ago.

I'm late to the Fun! :<

Mightyblue
12-16-2007, 05:07 PM
I forgot how much work this game is. Going with three Mutants and one Human so far. Having to check the status screen after every battle is a bit of a pain.

Shadax
12-16-2007, 05:10 PM
ok, on my female human, is there any particular reason to raise her strength if all she uses are agility weapons?

also, if I love this game (and I do!), would Romancing SaGa be worth it?

Mightyblue
12-16-2007, 05:11 PM
No, not really.

Shadax
12-16-2007, 05:21 PM
No, not really.

Does this answer both of them?

Tomm Guycot
12-16-2007, 06:05 PM
Female Humans - Agility and Agility Weapons will get you through.

While my first trek through the tower (world 1 to 2) was pretty hellish and I barely made it out alive, my second (world 2 to 3) was an absolute joy. My monster is one level below maxed, and even the rapidly disappearing Mutant skill factor isn't annoying me that much.

Mightyblue
12-16-2007, 06:32 PM
Does this answer both of them?For the second, it depends on how much you liked any other SaGa games. If you liked the GB ones, you might like it, but I dunno.

alexb
12-16-2007, 09:14 PM
Romancing Saga Minstrel Song wasn't too bad. There are things to recommend it. Like its amazing soundtrack. It's also extremely open-ended. But it's also very vague and luck plays a huge part in whether or not you learn new skills. A proper guide is very nearly required, in honesty. But if we're going to continue the gauntlet, I'd try to play it again.

Mightyblue
12-16-2007, 09:24 PM
Okay, dumped an hour or so into it and got all three of the King items and got two Mutants up into the 150 range for HP, plus they're carrying the other two idiot humans I decided to replace my other original team members with. My female mutant is a nice balance of abilities and stats, but the irksome thing is my male mutant who's got 30 Mana already and no magic abilities or items.

EDIT: Often, especially when you start getting HP values in the several hundred range it's cheaper to buy a couple Potions or even XPotions since you get multiple uses and they basically restore around 120 HP total (for Potions) for a 50 GP cost.

Sanagi
12-16-2007, 10:49 PM
Most weapons with a Sword icon are strength based, most rapier-esque weapons are agility based. There are exceptions, like the Psi weapons which use Mana as their stat. Guns are almost always agility based.
I thought guns were just random number-based. I'm pretty sure they are in FFL2, at least... They don't give robots any agility boost.

Mightyblue
12-16-2007, 11:39 PM
Hmm...for damage they might be, but they rely on Agility for hit %, like everything else. I don't really know. Guns in the later two run off a +/- random number, with the model of the gun determining the base damage, and the number generator modifying the damage either way.

mr_bungle700
12-16-2007, 11:43 PM
Just about to finish up World 4 here. I don't know if it's just nostalgia or whatever, but I never seem to get tired of replaying this game. I'm definitely going through FFLII next.

So, which monsters are everyone's favorites for the end of the game? I've got two monsters in my party this time around and I'm using a Bone King and a Titan, which both suit me just fine. The Bone King has Sword, Elec, Ice, Fire and Stop, plus a couple of immunities (and weakness to fire, doh!). The Titan has Kick, Sword, Sleep, Fire, Cure and Teleport. Not a bad pair, I would say.

Sporophyte
12-17-2007, 06:20 AM
Well I finished my 2 Mutant 2 Monster run. I pretty much just ate any meat that came my way so the monster set up was always shifting. Any of them work pretty well though. I also did not have any recovery items equipped the entire game so the final boss was a showdown of who would run out of HP first. It was close, but the masmune and the glass sword prevailed. The monsters contributed some but the mutants really ended up carrying the day.

All around the monsters made travel easy since they could soak damage and use their best attacks at will, then just change and get new everything. But in boss fights the mutants were the real power.

Also, make sure to buy and use a Sun Sword for the final tower section, it is rediculous how effective it is.

Sven
12-17-2007, 07:58 AM
Is every weapon with a sword icon "Strength" based?

Are guns Strength or Agility based?

IIRC, Sabers and Rapiers had the sword icons but were agility-based (could be wrong, as I still haven't started on this).

I think that guns work off a combination of strength and agility, just to screw with everyone some more.

alexb
12-17-2007, 10:39 AM
I don't mind that games have systems like this, but I don't see any reason to keep this kind of information hidden from the player in the first place.

Mightyblue
12-17-2007, 10:59 AM
Welcome to the world of SaGa games: poorly explained and exercises in frustration until you figure them out. Sometimes they still are even after you do!

Sven
12-17-2007, 12:00 PM
I don't mind that games have systems like this, but I don't see any reason to keep this kind of information hidden from the player in the first place.

The FFL games had a valid excuse: they're early-generation Game Boy games, so it's not as though there was room for an extensive help system. Being tossed in head-first was perfectly normal in those days, although I never read the manual so who knows if there was anything that might've shed some light on the levelling.

Sporophyte
12-17-2007, 12:16 PM
I'm having trouble remembering what came in the packaging with FFL, and I won't have ready access to it for a couple of days, but I know for a fact that FFL2 came with a folded sheet of glossy paper with printing on both sides. On one side it had screenshot maps of the first few dungeons, on the other it listed every weapon, armor, spell and item and told you what they did. For example it would tell you that the damage from a long sword was strength x 6* or that a book of thunder was mana x 10. This went a long way towards making the whole process make a lot more sense.

*actual formula may vary, I don't have that sheet in front of me right now.

Gredlen
12-17-2007, 12:20 PM
I only bought FFL after it was reprinted a few years after it came out, so I don't know if anything changed between the two releases.
However, I don't remember anything special coming with it. I'm pretty sure the instruction book was pretty standard and not much information was given, but I was younger then, so I could be mistaken.

DrSenbei
12-17-2007, 03:35 PM
No you're right. The manual for FFL didn't tell you shit. I didn't even understand the enemy group "stacking" thing when I was a kid (WTF is Skeleton 4 and P-Worm 3?!) and my used copy of FFL II didn't come with the nifty foldout so I never knew about agility VS strength weapons until yeeeeeeears after the fact.
I'm sure I'm not alone.

Tomm Guycot
12-17-2007, 04:17 PM
FFL just has the manual and map. The manual was pretty beefy and informative for a GB game, but the fact several facts were flatout wrong kind of mooted the usefulness.

FFL2 had the same basic manual quality (but more factual) with the map / item list.

DrSenbei
12-17-2007, 10:31 PM
I remember now! The manual was huge with a handholding walkthrough of the 1st world but it failed to explain the games mechanics.
The FFL III fold-out map/equipment guide was awesome cuz it listed the mixed magic you create at the end of the game as well as being festooned with badass illustrations.
Iím calling you out Mr. Parish! Are you continuing with FFL II next month because if you are I will make the effort to track it down. Help me justify my self indulgence.

Parish
12-18-2007, 12:51 AM
We are in it for the long haul. This Fun Club marks the beginning of the SaGa Saga.

Zen
12-18-2007, 01:10 AM
That walkthrough in the back of the FFL manual was insane. It had crazy illustrations, and it was written up like a storybook telling the legend of the heroes in stupid detail. I'll always remember the bit about how the thief lizard guy made someone say "He will be weak against things that are cold!"

Too bad it was useless.

Sven
12-18-2007, 07:11 AM
- Ran through World 1 in relatively short order last night (although I had my monster die on me against King Sword, which stinks but not nearly as much as if it'd been one of the more important characters; monsters are easily replaceable, to the point where I have half a mind to kill him off twice more and just get someone with full hearts back from the guild.)

- I remembered my biggest gripe about the game, especially in light of FFLII: YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE ORDER OF THE ABILITY SLOTS. Yeeargh, I freaking *hate* having to scroll through the four useless Mutant abilities (no, I don't want to cast Mirror / Barrier / Armor / Electro / Stench, thank you very much...) to get to the weapons. A game with some thought to it would obviously have it the other way around but, well, this is FFLI. Making those slots movable to the bottom of the order (or, even better, having your "weapon" spells appear behind the melee weapon in the list) was easily the best change they made in the second game, along with making the spell generation far less random.

- Abused the KingSwd to get up to about 10,000 G before leaving the world, which should be a decent start in World 2. Also bought some magic books before leaving, as my two Mutants seem incapable of self-generating much in the way of useful magic for whatever reason.

alexb
12-18-2007, 08:00 AM
It's completely random. I got lucky by having mine learn Flame repeatedly. I cooked several bosses that way.

Sporophyte
12-18-2007, 08:49 AM
- Ran through World 1 in relatively short order last night (although I had my monster die on me against King Sword, which stinks but not nearly as much as if it'd been one of the more important characters; monsters are easily replaceable, to the point where I have half a mind to kill him off twice more and just get someone with full hearts back from the guild.)


You don't have to bother running him out of hearts. Just go to the guild and replace him.

Egarwaen
12-18-2007, 09:00 AM
Well, I managed to blast through to the Skyscraper in world 4, at which point I've discovered a serious balance problem. Namely, there's a lot of points in the game where you simply can't grind because the cost of the weapon charges you're using is higher than the money you get from any monster.

So yeah, colour me done with this one. I'll give FFL2 a fair shake, but I think the only one I'll play through completely will be FFL3.

Sven
12-18-2007, 09:03 AM
It's completely random. I got lucky by having mine learn Flame repeatedly. I cooked several bosses that way.

Indeed, but it used to be (at least, to my Grade Eight self) a little less agressively bitter about it. I think I generated all of four attack spells in World 1, two of which were almost instantly taken away.'

My female mutant is a hoss, however - up to mid-40s in agility, strength and mana. That brings about an interesting issue with the Mutants, though: as female mutants are more likely to act first, they're always going to get a shot in, which is going to make them even more powerful. It's a vicious cycle.

Sporophyte
12-18-2007, 09:15 AM
Well, I managed to blast through to the Skyscraper in world 4, at which point I've discovered a serious balance problem. Namely, there's a lot of points in the game where you simply can't grind because the cost of the weapon charges you're using is higher than the money you get from any monster.

So yeah, colour me done with this one. I'll give FFL2 a fair shake, but I think the only one I'll play through completely will be FFL3.

What's your party set up? Books of magic especially the basic spells (Fire, Ice, Elec) are pretty cheap, hit entire groups and deal solid reliable damage if your mana is reasonable.

Egarwaen
12-18-2007, 09:29 AM
What's your party set up? Books of magic especially the basic spells (Fire, Ice, Elec) are pretty cheap, hit entire groups and deal solid reliable damage if your mana is reasonable.

Human, Human, Mutant, Monster. I'll have to give that a try... Hm.

alexb
12-18-2007, 09:33 AM
It seems like they always make the female units better in games like this, for some reason.

Sven
12-18-2007, 09:49 AM
A bit of anti-patriarchal game design. I can appreciate that.

Human, Human, Mutant, Monster. I'll have to give that a try... Hm.

That's the best once you know what you're doing (it certainly makes inventory management MUCH easier), but for a first time through I'd go with 2 Mutants instead of the two Humans. After a certain point, spamming magic is the way to go.

I'll report back once I find my reliable healing pool near an easily-exploitable monster stack. It's SOMEWHERE around World 4's level in the tower, but I can't remember where it is offhand.

Can we agree on one thing for certain: robots were the best thing to happen to this series. I miss little GOOF.

Sporophyte
12-18-2007, 10:12 AM
Robots in FFL2 are awesome. They can heal for free at any time as long as you have 2 pieces of armor, regenerate their weapons at the inn, and get stats through the stratosphere just for giving them awesome equipment (which you would do anyway so that you have the ability to recharge it).

Egarwaen
12-18-2007, 10:19 AM
That's the best once you know what you're doing (it certainly makes inventory management MUCH easier), but for a first time through I'd go with 2 Mutants instead of the two Humans. After a certain point, spamming magic is the way to go.

Yeah, I've noticed that "Mutant with P-sword" is disgustingly good. I definitely appreciate the inventory management advantage, though, since the very limited inventory is painful.

Can we agree on one thing for certain: robots were the best thing to happen to this series. I miss little GOOF.

Yeah, I loved the variety of character types in FFL3. Plus all the bizarre upgrades you got for your airship. Man, I can't wait to play that again.

Sanagi
12-18-2007, 11:40 AM
It seems like they always make the female units better in games like this, for some reason.
Males can get agility too, they just have to catch up. But, yes.

Robots in FFL2 are awesome. They can heal for free at any time as long as you have 2 pieces of armor, regenerate their weapons at the inn, and get stats through the stratosphere just for giving them awesome equipment (which you would do anyway so that you have the ability to recharge it).
If you have the mutant ability "cure" everyone stays for free at inns in FFL2. But, yes.

Sporophyte
12-18-2007, 05:13 PM
If you have the mutant ability "cure" everyone stays for free at inns in FFL2. But, yes.

Oh, there's no doubt that cure is very useful for that very reason. However it is possible to run out of cure in places like the Nasty Dungeon. The Robot armor healing trick has no such limitation.

Sven
12-19-2007, 06:36 AM
Of course, you can run from pretty much everything in Nasty Dungeon, so you're not utterly crippled even in the worst case scenario.

Yesterday: burned through World 2 and World 3 before calling it a night (I love how VBA runs at something like a 10000% speed rate on GB games if you hold turbo... makes grinding much more efficient). Even went back to World 1 to do the whole get-the-monster-to-level-13 thing, and wound up with the top-level skeleton (who has Gas, Elec AND Flame, eliminating all my worries about the mutants never having any attack magic). I'll probably try to swap him out for a Tiamat or something that has an inherent Saw command towards the end of the game, but for now that's a nice little exploit.

(Unless there's a lev. 13 or 14 with Teleport; I haven't looked at all the monster stats yet.)

The floating castle is probably the best place in the game to grind, I think - some of the guards on the upper level floors spawn five or six low-agility enemies, so they're easy pickings for a high-agility mutant or monster. And you don't have to wander all over the place looking for them, which is appreciated. So that's 6000GP for one rechargeable magic spell and 1/20th of a 500GP spell book; perfectly good conversion rate, to my way of thinking.

(plus you have the glider at the time, so it's easy to dash back to a town)

Going to do the climb and then... shudder... World 4. God damn legendary invincible flaming chickens... although I have a surprise saved up for him in my item menu.

Red Hedgehog
12-19-2007, 09:33 PM
I have continued playing through this and am about at the end of World 2. It continues to be strangely compelling. Once you know the system, there really is a lot to do.

I am annoyed that I need to constantly have a monster chart in front of me or else I can't eat any meat without fear of making my monster weaker. Right now he is around level 8 or 9 and getting to be pretty kick-ass.

Shadax
12-19-2007, 11:34 PM
I have officially given up towards the end of world 4. I know I am close to the end, but I am completely lost (I've managed to fumble through without using a walkthrough for anything besides figuring out the mechanics) and my willpower to get through this is rapidly diminishing.

Tomm Guycot
12-20-2007, 01:00 AM
I just beat World 4 tonight. I have tomorrow off work so I somewhat intend to finish it then. If memory serves, I just have a few levels of the tower to go through, then a twist, then a quick jaunt back up the tower.

It's funny how hard it seemed for me back in the day, when really, with the slightest bit of effort on my part I easily could have maxed out my humans and just destroyed The Creator.

Oh well.

Killing the Chinese Zodiac never tasted so good.

(Please don't lock this thread tomorrow Jeremy!)

Parish
12-20-2007, 01:29 AM
Nah, it's a two-weeker.

Sven
12-20-2007, 06:54 AM
I am annoyed that I need to constantly have a monster chart in front of me or else I can't eat any meat without fear of making my monster weaker.

Aw, that's part of the fun of playing through the first time. "WHADDYA MEAN HE TURNED INTO A GOBLIN!?!"

As it turns out, there IS a level 13 monster with teleport, which I fluked into towards the end of the Skyscraper by running out of magic with my monster and needing a refill. Now I don't even need a Door to beat this thing; I'll probably eat Su-Zaku2's filet just to bump the monster up to 14 before the end.

Interesting thought, though: with only one save slot, and the possibility that you can get trapped in the Creator's world, is this an RPG that, like an 80s adventure game, could get you trapped without hope of escape? The way the creator's set up, you basically have to be able to do 1500 damage or so to him in four rounds, or else you're going to be Flare-d to death. But because you can abuse the game and run from practically anything, and then cheaply beat Su-Zaku both times, it's feasible that a party could get to Creator and not be capable of doing that much damage no matter what happens.

Need to buy a couple of Flares to keep in reserve for the big boss fights coming up.

Sporophyte
12-20-2007, 09:07 AM
I suppose it would be possible to get to the creator without the ability to bludgeon him to death, but seeing as how you can just exploit the glitch and insta-kill him I've never really worried about getting stuck at him.

The-Bavis
12-20-2007, 11:42 AM
I've scanned this FC thread periodically b/c I've had this game in the back of my drawer for a while, kind of calling out to me. So, I finally put it in the GBA last night.

Looks like 13 year-old me got to the third world. I looked at my party, their stats, their weapons, and thought about the intricate details you guys have been discussing.

Then I shut it off and put it away.

You guys have a lot more fortitude than I do. Stand proud with your nerd cred.

Tomm Guycot
12-20-2007, 12:45 PM
I've scanned this FC thread periodically b/c I've had this game in the back of my drawer for a while, kind of calling out to me. So, I finally put it in the GBA last night.

Looks like 13 year-old me got to the third world. I looked at my party, their stats, their weapons, and thought about the intricate details you guys have been discussing.

Then I shut it off and put it away.

You guys have a lot more fortitude than I do. Stand proud with your nerd cred.

But... it's quite possibly the LEAST intricate RPG ever.

Parish
12-20-2007, 01:54 PM
I dunno about that, but if you have a mutant or two the game sort of plays itself. I'm nearing the end of world two and my starter mutant, Alfa, has max HP. It's sort of silly.

alexb
12-20-2007, 02:06 PM
Did you name them Alfa, Beta, Gama, Dlta?

Parish
12-20-2007, 02:08 PM
I did not.

Sven
12-20-2007, 02:11 PM
Better than my POOF / ZAP / BAM / POW team.

Another strange observation while I wait for Retronauts to load (... dammit, where's that USB cable....?): World 1 and 2 are *really* bare-bones compared to World 3 and 4. Heck, not even that; World 1 has the token "Bandit's Girlfriend" plotline at least. World 2, you just sort of walk around aimlessly until you stumble into the sphere.

Then World 3 hits and the FFIV-predicting parade of self-sacrifice begins.

Update: Beat the holy piss out of the game on the way home. I wound up at the bottom of the tower again with something like 400,000G... so POWER SUITS FOR EVERYONE! At that point, my party was Goldberg to the 2's Jerry Flynn / Road Block / The Gambler / Joey Maggs.

Red Hedgehog
12-20-2007, 05:50 PM
My party is named Lex, Yacc, Flex, and Biso(n). Yeah, it's a nerdy inside joke.

Tomm Guycot
12-20-2007, 07:02 PM
Just call me Nietzsche, cause God is dead.

The game wasn't nearly as hard as I remember it. Probably because I beefed up my characters and actually played it instead of avoiding every encounter I had after World 2.

The ending doesn't make any sense, though. SPOILER: We decide NOT to see what's in paradise?

joffeorama
12-20-2007, 07:16 PM
Hey guys, look what I found (http://towerreversed.org/).

Some helpful nerd made two key programs for Final Fantasy Legend gaming. One is a helpful meat calculator, showing you exactly what your monster will become. The second is a much more impressive combat simulator called "relic". Its apparently an exact replica of FFL's battle engine, complete with every character and enemy in the game. Now you can pit the Creator against Ashura and see who would win! You can even create new characters, equipment and skills if you don't mind the sneaking suspicion that you're wasting your life.

Mazian
12-20-2007, 08:24 PM
a helpful meat calculator
That's a phrase you just don't see often enough.

Sanagi
12-20-2007, 10:56 PM
Interesting thought, though: with only one save slot, and the possibility that you can get trapped in the Creator's world, is this an RPG that, like an 80s adventure game, could get you trapped without hope of escape? The way the creator's set up, you basically have to be able to do 1500 damage or so to him in four rounds, or else you're going to be Flare-d to death. But because you can abuse the game and run from practically anything, and then cheaply beat Su-Zaku both times, it's feasible that a party could get to Creator and not be capable of doing that much damage no matter what happens.

Need to buy a couple of Flares to keep in reserve for the big boss fights coming up.
One time in the second game, I saved in the Warmech room and couldn't beat it. It sucked.

Issun
12-20-2007, 11:45 PM
Inviting people to play SaGa games is sick. You need help.

mr_bungle700
12-21-2007, 12:59 AM
The only way we're going to make it through this is if we do it together!

Finished up this game today after taking a break for a few days to play through most of FFLII. Beat the final boss the hard way first and then reloaded my save so I could fight him again and obliterate him on the first turn with the SAW. It's such a satisfying experience that I suggest everyone try it once.

Sven
12-21-2007, 09:52 AM
One time in the second game, I saved in the Warmech room and couldn't beat it. It sucked.

But at least in the second game, there's three save slots so there's a chance you were rolling them over and had something reasonably close to the save slot that you'd lost.

In FFL, once you wind up in Creator's room you're screwed and there's no way of knowing ahead of time that there's no going back (... I think, I scrolled through the final pre-door conversation).

Inviting people to play SaGa games is sick. You need help.

The GB ones aren't bad at all - I was dreading this playthrough, and it went reasonably smoothly. FFLII is one of my favorite RPGs (and has an ownership bias to it), so that shouldn't be too bad either. FFLIII I'm looking forward to, as I haven't played that since roughly six months after it was released.

But anything after those three... aw, do I HAVE to?

The game wasn't nearly as hard as I remember it. Probably because I beefed up my characters and actually played it instead of avoiding every encounter I had after World 2.

Yeah, I never figured out that spells are really, really cheap compared to weapons. I think it's something you learn in FFLII, then go back to I and apply as best you can (read: no guarantee of two attack spells and a cure on every mutant in your party).

Might get a head start of FFLII this weekend, or at least see where my last save game was sitting. I'd bet on just before the Nasty Dungeon, as I never liked the game much beyond that point anyway since it just became a dungeon slog without any new MAGI or significant plot points.

Tomm Guycot
12-21-2007, 11:11 AM
Um, did Parish ever say we're doing L2 next? Or are we all just assuming?

Sven
12-21-2007, 11:27 AM
Um, did Parish ever say we're doing L2 next? Or are we all just assuming?

Even he wouldn't be so mean as to skip over the good ones just to get straight to the torture.

Egarwaen
12-21-2007, 11:31 AM
Um, did Parish ever say we're doing L2 next? Or are we all just assuming?

I think he said we were doing all three eventually?

Mightyblue
12-21-2007, 11:41 AM
I think he said we were doing all of them eventually?Fix'd. He's said that he's going to try playing through all of the SaGa games that are available on this end of the pond, though whether they'll all be Fun Club entries is debatable. Personally, I think Unlimited SaGa would make a great Spite Club entry.

mr_bungle700
12-21-2007, 08:57 PM
I'm playing through FFLII and III with or without you people, but it would be more fun if we made Fun Clubs out of all of them.

In FFL, once you wind up in Creator's room you're screwed and there's no way of knowing ahead of time that there's no going back (... I think, I scrolled through the final pre-door conversation).

The mutant/monster Teleport ability and Door item can get you out of the Creator's room. This is one of the reasons I always make sure my final monster has Teleport.

Human
12-23-2007, 07:23 PM
My main memory of Final Fantasy Legend was being but a wee lad paging through Nintendo Power. My greasy fingers came across the blurb they'd written about the game, and something about it really captured my imagination. Mutants and monsters and swords! More than anything though, the cover image they showed really sparked my imagination.

At that age, the coolest thing in the world was to have a lot of awesome accessories and tools you could use to fight dragons. The box art with its odd-but-appealing helmet and wicked sword and mysterious golden key was enough to make any 2nd grader with a passion for (magical monster slaying) fashion salivate.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4955/799d228348a06847d08af01ok3.jpg

widdershins
12-23-2007, 11:26 PM
Oh man, you guys are killing me. You do this to me when I have no consistent internet connection!

Final Fantasy Legend was probably the game that got me into RPGs. When I was in the 4th grade, I was at a sleepover field trip at a place in Long Island called Caumsett. Aside from rumblings from my fellow impressionable midgets about how haunted the mansion we stayed in may or may not have been, my roommate at the time (god rest, I found out recently that he committed suicide a few years back) was packing a Game Boy and FFL.

It was already a number of years after the game had come out, but I was astounded. At the time, the concept of doing anything in a video game that didn't resemble Mario or Pac Man was beyond my reckoning. I loved the storytelling possibilities, the customizability of your party, and pretty much everything.

I asked immediately for the game for Christmas, and was initially disappointed when my aunt got me FFL2, as I thought at the time that I would be lost, not having played the former game in its entirety. As it turns out, it was a much better game in many ways, and I got way into it. I've played it through countless times and it remains one of the few RPGs I can just pick up and play at any time (along with Chrono Trigger.. and that's pretty much it).

Never did play much of the original admittedly. Even if I can't keep up with the conversation, I think I'll go find my copy and play along. I'll just imagine where the thread is going until I regain my interwebs.

Cheers.

PhoenixUltima
12-24-2007, 12:32 PM
I picked up a ROM of this and GameFAQs-ed through it, and I have to say I'm pleasently surprised. It's no FFVIII, but for an old buggy game boy RPG it's pretty swell. My team for this outing was a human male named FAGO (I'm so mature), a human female named LEZO (MATURITY R GREET), a mutant male named MRCS (short for Marcus, the super mutant sherrif from Fallout 2), and a monster named DGMT (short for Dogmeat, the lovable pup from Fallout). Monsters sure are worthless, huh? Early on they're weak as hell, unless you have the extreme luck (or a monster faq sitting next to your emulator, *cough*) to make a higher-level monster, and once you're at the endgame they just plain suck shit compared to the humans and mutants in your party, who (A) can equip shit, and (B) have higher fucking stats than even the most powerful monster ever will. Not to mention the fact that most monster abilities get, like, 10-15 uses before you have to go rest at an inn to recharge them.

Oh, also, I got an early start on FFL2, and I made a team consisting of a human male named CAKE, a mutant male named IS, a robot named A, and a monster named LIE.

STILL ALIVE

Tomm Guycot
12-24-2007, 01:07 PM
I really didn't see the monsters being useless.

Then again, in world 3 I managed to land a FIREMAN and I stuck with the Golem class the rest of the game. They have uber high defense as well as being strong against WPN by nature. They also have flame attacks which just rape most enemy parties.

I don't know what I would have done w/out my monster. My humans were easily the weakest members of my party, and were just there to keep damage going while any strategy fell to Mutant or Monster.

mr_bungle700
12-25-2007, 02:39 PM
Monsters can be very useful throughout the game if you use the right ones. Their offensive spells are handy and they don't randomly disappear like mutant spells do. It's especially nice to have a monster with Cure and/or Teleport as well. The only real trouble I've run into with monsters is that their damage output tends to taper off at the very end of the game, but they can still do their part to take down groups of enemies. It just takes two castings of their offensive spells rather than one like it used to. Furthermore, instant death spells like Stop remain effective all the way through the final area, and Sleep can remove enemies from the battle until your more powerful characters get around to destroying them. I used a party of one mutant, one human and two monsters this time around, and it worked out just fine for me.

Zen
12-25-2007, 04:40 PM
And any debate over the worth of monsters in the sequel will fall before the game-breaking might of Titania.