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mode7
06-20-2007, 05:17 PM
I recently thought about how awesome a Starfox game would be, if it had this in-game graphics, where you can actually see the animals' hair, not like the latest gcn suckage:

http://www.geocities.jp/electro01aso/starfox.DW.jpg

But we all know the Wii is only capable of doing something a bit above this:

http://www.mundorare.com/juegos/starfox/renders/starfox_team.jpg


I always thought Starfox was a very cinematic game, it played like a movie, SF64 even had some cutscenes, and I think those would be awesome on next gen graphics, think Starfox with Gears of War graphics.. I picture the arwing flying through Corneria, with highly detailed buildings, with the corneria theme song from Starfox on the snes.

The thought of the graphics looking similar to that first picture is awesome, but it seems Nintendo is making Fox too cool:

http://www.vidaextra.com/images/starfox_ds.jpg

he looks kiddy. Imagine how it would play with the stuffed animals graphics!

Besides the look, I don't know what could be made for a Starfox Wii.. I think it will probably feel exactly like the other games, nothing new, and they might throw us some stupid secondary character development..

Just look at the first two pictures for a second.. why did they change them like that..? the first ones look much more serious, that look would help a lot for a more serious starfox... it was kinda sad when starfox adventures came out.. I hate those land stages... focus on the flyingstuff, nintendo!!

I'm generally not into the better graphics = better stuff, but the recent starfox art is custom made for toddlers

If it comes, the Wii controller will sell the game alone... I just wish it had a more grown up feel to it

BRB, gotta get my burgers out

Excitemike
06-20-2007, 05:27 PM
But we all know the Wii is only capable of doing something a bit above this:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/eye_robot/miscellaneous/fox.jpg

alexb
06-20-2007, 05:29 PM
Bell head Fox is certainly better than crazy teeth Rare Fox, but I would still like them to head back to the general proportions of the Starfox 64 era. And kill Krystal. Actually, that's much more important.

Chu
06-20-2007, 05:33 PM
Steps for Star Fox success:

1) Get a character designer who can make Fox less hideous. What's with that gigantic forehead?

2) Focus on the flying, but the occasional on-rails submarine and tank levels are fine too, I guess.

3) ???

4) Profit!

mode7
06-20-2007, 05:34 PM
yeah the tank and sub are ok, but those other missions seem like any other game

Squall
06-20-2007, 05:34 PM
I will happily accept Krystal if it means losing Slippy.

mode7
06-20-2007, 05:37 PM
how was starfox command? (never played it)

Schmidt
06-20-2007, 05:47 PM
Actually—and you think I'm joking but I'm not—what if it looked exactly like that first picture? FMV cutscenes of muppets. That would be awesome.

alexb
06-20-2007, 05:49 PM
Only if they only spoke in the buhbuhbuh-buh noises they made in the first game. And Star Fox for the DS is disjointed. It's cool that you can join up with Star Wolf and other stuff, but it's a map with lots of 30 second all-range mode fights over bland scenery.

mode7
06-20-2007, 05:51 PM
Actually—and you think I'm joking but I'm not—what if it looked exactly like that first picture? FMV cutscenes of muppets. That would be awesome.

I would love that

thomp538
06-20-2007, 05:51 PM
There must be some option to "do a barrel roll"

mode7
06-20-2007, 05:57 PM
There must be some option to "do a barrel roll"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LYRbrU1eCE

Jeanie
06-20-2007, 06:26 PM
Oh I have to agree with this. After playing the old Starfox in that minigame in WarioWare, I am convinced that Starfox Wii would be made of pure win.

Failing that, a new Rogue Squadron game would be awesome as well. Just no on foot or Hoth levels please.

Coinspinner
06-20-2007, 07:04 PM
I remember thinking the original Starfox was the ugliest game I'd ever seen. But I guess it was good if so many people like it. I've only played the one on N64 but I'd love more of that.

Also, Pilotwings.

Calorie Mate
06-20-2007, 07:33 PM
I hate to admit it, but the original Star Fox is one of the very, very few games I simply couldn't play because of the graphics. Star Fox 64, however, is one of my favorites games ever.

Anyway, they need to focus solely on flying. My all-time #1 concept for a Wii controller-based game would be a game like Panzer Dragoon Orta, but controlling movement with the Nunchuk and aiming your cursor with the Wii Remote. However, since you worry about what's going on from the sides and behind you as well in that game, and Star Fox revolves around shooting things in front of you that are coming at you, I think it would benefit more from using the Wii Remote like in that Wario Ware minigame.


p.s. Also, Pilotwings.

Torgo
06-20-2007, 07:35 PM
how was starfox command? (never played it)
It's good. It's probably the closest we've gotten to a true Star Fox experience since 64. That said, I'm pretty sure I'm a tiny minority that really enjoyed the game.

nadia
06-20-2007, 07:42 PM
And kill Krystal. Actually, that's much more important.

I heartily endorse and support this statement. She's the one variable that tipped the series into Sector Furry Fodder.

Guy
06-20-2007, 07:51 PM
Why should we worry if Starfox looks kiddy? He's a talking fucking animal. I figure the Brawl fox is perfect, really.

thomp538
06-20-2007, 08:27 PM
Nintendo Power made me buy the original StarFox, but I liked it.

Chu
06-20-2007, 08:32 PM
Why should we worry if Starfox looks kiddy? He's a talking fucking animal. I figure the Brawl fox is perfect, really.

I don't care if he looks kiddy. I care if he looks ugly. It's nothing I can't get used to, but geez... do I WANT to get used to it when I know they can do better?

mopinks
06-20-2007, 08:54 PM
I don't particularly care whether or not I can see all the detail in Fox's fur or not since he should damn well stay in the goddamned Arwing anyway.

but yeah, I think the new Smash Bros. rendition of bellhead Command Fox is pretty adequate.

Chu
06-20-2007, 09:54 PM
The real mystery of Star Fox is how Peppy got so old so fast. I guess they age like real animals?

Warg
06-20-2007, 10:41 PM
For all the praise people give StarFox 64 over the original, I'm kinda surprised that no one seems to make mention of the difference in music between the two.

... isn't there anyone else out there who thinks, compared to the original, the music quality kinda tanked going to the 64?

I'm not saying the 64 soundtrack didn't have its good pieces, or that there weren't faults with the soundtrack of the original -- but I found the music of the original to be generally more upbeat and, resultedly, more exciting.

Now, atmospheric can be great when pulled off right -- but unfortunately, what gets in the way of that for SF64 is its rather-extensive use of some pretty-horrible-sounding synths, especially the trumpet synth. Some of the synths in the original were kinda lacking also -- but I don't remember any from there really being as objectionably-bad.

Your thoughts?

thomp538
06-21-2007, 12:03 AM
Almost all if not all games on the 64 had sucky music. There wasn't a dedicated chip for it like there was on SNES. Some SNES games had wonderful sound, the N64 was such a fucked system, cartridges were only a part of the problem.

That being said, Star Fox 64 was a pretty damn good game for the time.

Peach
06-21-2007, 12:36 AM
Brawl's Fox design is definitely superior. He looks like a leader, with a touch of Solid Snake coolness. His costume invokes both cowboy and ace, looking at home in both the cockpit and the field. The cartoony aesthetic is great for an anthropomorphic character like him, and his color palette is superb (it really does bring out his eyes).

This is in comparison to Adventure's Fox design. He looks a cross between a Sonic-Clone and a Mentat. His costume invokes a denim-clad punk from the 80s. His proportions are abysmal, with a realistic torso, boring limbs, and a massive head. At least he beats Assault's Fox design though:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/SFAfox.jpg

Guy
06-21-2007, 12:41 AM
I loved the original Starfox's music. The Corneria theme was sweet.

Squall
06-21-2007, 12:42 AM
Man, I dunno why, but this thread made me want to play F-Zero.

Psyael
06-21-2007, 12:48 AM
They made his eyes bigger for more anime, less Henson. But what I really don't like is how his whole snout lacks any kind of fur or definition. At least the Rare one looks like a giant animal, with all the fur and the dark line around his upper lip.

Mr. Sensible
06-21-2007, 02:01 AM
I hate to admit it, but the original Star Fox is one of the very, very few games I simply couldn't play because of the graphics.

Back in the day all we had were unshaded untextured polygons and we liked it by God.

Makkara
06-21-2007, 04:18 AM
What I hate about Fox's design is that he always has that same stupid frowning-eyes-smiling-mouth expression in every game from Adventure onward. Yes, I get it, Fox is supposed to be cool, but it looks retarded!

That goes for Sonic too, by the way.

Warg
06-21-2007, 07:17 AM
Almost all if not all games on the 64 had sucky music. There wasn't a dedicated chip for it like there was on SNES. Some SNES games had wonderful sound, the N64 was such a fucked system, cartridges were only a part of the problem.

No disagreement that the N64's lack of a dedicated sound chip caused some problems. That, and Sony's SPC700 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPC700) chip could do some amazing stuff for its day, and still impresses even now with its effects.

Though, even if the N64 lost dedicated sound processing and a bunch of really-nifty hardware sound tricks, it still didn't prevent developers from working with a good sample set -- and given the increased cartridge size, one could argue they could work with better samples. Carts might not have been able to offer CD capacity, but it's still more than what the SNES could offer. Konami's N64 Goemon games and Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness readily come to mind as offering music that, thanks in part to their better instrument samples, were of far better aural quality than what you'd hear from the series' SNES entries.

[You'd have to compare pieces like CV:LOD's version of the Dracula X boss music to the SNES version, though -- as CV:LOD's compositions were, for the most part, much slower and more atmospheric to match its much-slower gameplay. But it still sounded fine, thanks in no small part to its awesome sample library & good sound management.]

Maybe some might say, "Okay, but that's Konami," given their track record for good music & sound -- but if they could pull off great sound on the N64, why not other big studios?

I'll grant that some of StarFox 64's samples & music sounded fine: what come to mind are the first few anvil hits on the intro (but not so much the violins that follow), and the ones used in the after-title-screen menu. But, otherwise, what StarFox 64 offered in general was a set of rather-notably-bad samples used extensively -- ones that made its generally-less-upbeat music sound pretty poor in several places. Again, some of the samples from SNES StarFox weren't all that great either -- but I feel at least the game's upbeat compositions made up for it.

bobservo
06-21-2007, 12:31 PM
Starfox had one good game. I think we should call it a day and just move on.

nathan
06-21-2007, 01:15 PM
I always found that the Star Fox character design unflinchingly reminds me of that George Lucas Howard the Duck movie and it creeps me out. Especially Slippy. I don't know if I want to see a HD Slippy. ew.

alexb
06-21-2007, 01:19 PM
The original Star Fox theme was better than the one they started using in SF64 which has hung on in every other game.

I will happily accept Krystal if it means losing Slippy.

Oh, and I've been meaning to respond to this for a while. It doesn't. It means losing Peppy. And that I cannot abide. No sir. That I cannot abide.

mode7
06-21-2007, 01:35 PM
best starfox song ever:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiC1pALYkoA

nadia
06-21-2007, 08:01 PM
wasn't the original Star Fox orchestrated by someone besides Koji Kondo? I guessed that's why 64 lacked the same flair. I liked Star Fox 64's soundtrack, but nothing quite tops the Armada stage music from the original (or that creepy black hole music, arrgh. Or Macbeth. Or the second-path second-Venom "highway" stage, or...).

Ghost from Spelunker
06-21-2007, 09:12 PM
Every Starfox game they do a different art style. I guess Nintendo just can't decide what to do with this series after 14 years and counting, which is sort of sad.

If they can't get the demon-possessed puppets in the next Starfox game, I nominate the German Starfox 64 comic version. Das will ich!
http://www.sfx64.com/Comics/sf64german/index.html

Psyael
06-22-2007, 12:19 AM
Starfox was just aurually a very weird game. From the "beyyyoooo--oooohm" when you selected a region to play, to the wacky echoing "emergency" voice who talks with all the emotion of being 30 hours into a no-sleep binge. Why the equally unimpressive "good luck" made it into the 64 game, I have no idea.

The end of stage theme that also was pretty much a theme for the series has always grated on my nerves a little, but the rest of it was great. The Venom theme (I don't know of any other theme than the one I got by warping), the aforementioned black hole music, etc. The whole thing was just wild.)

The flying rectangles that got in your way, those enormous walls on Venom that would take up the whole map in whichever direction they were pointing. That weird floating duck thing that would try and crash into your ship and would later become the big two-legged dealie. Flying into space stations and a fortress to fight various bosses, and of course the giant grey face. It was all memorable just for being so surreal and free of definition while Nintendo games were beginning to look more and more like a colorful cartoon.

Seriously, Starfox is like Early Nintendo's Industrial Moment or something.

Calorie Mate
06-22-2007, 06:03 PM
Back in the day all we had were unshaded untextured polygons and we liked it by God.

Not all of us. I played it a week after it came out, and even then I knew it was too ugly.




Anyway, I think it's worth mentioning that Star Fox 64 was the first game to feature good voice acting.

Excitemike
06-22-2007, 07:11 PM
Anyway, I think it's worth mentioning that Star Fox 64 was the first game to feature good voice acting.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/eye_robot/miscellaneous/sdgillian.jpg
Gillian would like a word with you.

Torgo
06-22-2007, 08:45 PM
Anyway, I think it's worth mentioning that Star Fox 64 was the first game to feature good voice acting.
Wrong. Even if we're strictly talking console games, the 3DO version Star Control 2 has it beat by at least four years. (The voice work was new and exclusive to that version before the game was open sourced a few years back).

Psyael
06-22-2007, 10:51 PM
I don't know for sure, but I'd bet one of the Star Wars games would be the first. They were cramming lines of the movie into clips in the SNES series, after all.

alexb
06-22-2007, 11:02 PM
Even though it's not the first game period, it was Nintendo's first game with extensive voice and probably had the most voice of any cart based game up to that point and maybe even now, so it was still significant. It was also the first game with rumble. It was an important game.

I still prefer the feel the original because of its soundtrack and the buhbuhbuh noises they used for voices, but there were some good themes in SF64, weak samples or no. The music for the Zoness level was pretty good and dramatic. And who doesn't love the Star Wolf theme? Even if SF Assault was crap, I'm still glad I got a properly recorded version of that theme out of it.

Alex
06-22-2007, 11:18 PM
http://www.geocities.jp/electro01aso/starfox.DW.jpg


The thought of the graphics looking similar to that...picture is horrifying, but it seems Nintendo is making Fox too not nightmare-inducing


fixed. jesus christ.

alexb
06-23-2007, 12:58 AM
Man, I would've loved a television show with those guys in it when I was a kid.

Red Hedgehog
06-23-2007, 02:11 AM
Not all of us. I played it a week after it came out, and even then I knew it was too ugly.

You were wrong. And still are.

The flat shaded polygon aesthetic is pretty awesome. More games should do it. (Well, more good games - Dirt Track FX and Stunt Track FX can stay in their graves)

Calorie Mate
06-23-2007, 04:42 PM
I'm sorry, I just couldn't get over it. It looked like a crappy Descent to me.


And I guess I should clarify: Star Fox 64 was the first game with good voice acting that I played.

nadia
06-23-2007, 05:05 PM
Man, I would've loved a television show with those guys in it when I was a kid.

I will admit to being pretty gay for the Nintendo Power comic.

alexb
06-23-2007, 05:27 PM
I liked the Zelda one more, but yeah, it had some great illustrations.

Ghost from Spelunker
06-24-2007, 10:09 AM
Not to mention going OUT OF THIS DIMENSION. Oskar Schlemmer would be so proud of the first Starfox.

Starfox was just aurually a very weird game. From the "beyyyoooo--oooohm" when you selected a region to play, to the wacky echoing "emergency" voice who talks with all the emotion of being 30 hours into a no-sleep binge. Why the equally unimpressive "good luck" made it into the 64 game, I have no idea.

The end of stage theme that also was pretty much a theme for the series has always grated on my nerves a little, but the rest of it was great. The Venom theme (I don't know of any other theme than the one I got by warping), the aforementioned black hole music, etc. The whole thing was just wild.)

The flying rectangles that got in your way, those enormous walls on Venom that would take up the whole map in whichever direction they were pointing. That weird floating duck thing that would try and crash into your ship and would later become the big two-legged dealie. Flying into space stations and a fortress to fight various bosses, and of course the giant grey face. It was all memorable just for being so surreal and free of definition while Nintendo games were beginning to look more and more like a colorful cartoon.

Seriously, Starfox is like Early Nintendo's Industrial Moment or something.

bobservo
06-24-2007, 11:14 AM
To me the reading of "Good luck!" always sounded like it was coming from a grumpy dad behind a newspaper at the breakfast table.

alexb
06-24-2007, 11:44 AM
It's Dan Owsen's voice, dropped a few octaves using sound editing software. He also recorded the voice clip at the beginning of Super Metroid. You, know. "The last Metroid is in captivity. The galaxy is at peath." Dude had a seriously wimpy voice, but he was a pretty good localizer. Anyone know what he's up to these days? Probably out of the games industry. Mobygames shows nothing since Zelda: OoT.

nadia
06-24-2007, 04:53 PM
He was an excellent localizer. His stuff had this whacky flair you wouldn't see elsewhere. I think Tomm knows what happened to him; he was stolen by gypsies or something.

alexb
06-24-2007, 06:26 PM
Oh, Nadia. Now you've gone and hurt Nate and Bill's feelings.

Kishi
06-28-2007, 04:44 PM
I think Tomm said he's a big shadowy executive at Nintendo now. No turnover, remember?

nadia
06-28-2007, 05:16 PM
You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

alexb
06-28-2007, 05:22 PM
Well I hope they gave him some kind of Darth Vader voicebox apparatus. Otherwise, it's going to be hard to get that psychological edge on people.