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View Full Version : FC14: Ico | Part two: story and spoilers


Parish
01-08-2008, 10:10 AM
This is where you do discuss story, spoilers, endings, things of that nature.

Traumadore
01-08-2008, 11:16 AM
I think what I like most about this game is that things are shown rather than explained, and it is kind of a throwback these days. The first time you encounter all the different manipulatable things in the game, it doesnt tell you what to do with it in either words or voiceovers (how easy would this game be if it did?).

Same goes for the situation and plot. In older games an ambiguous plot was not uncommon, but more as a function of the limitations, but I feel like Ico just gives the player alot of credit to figure things out on their own. It helps that really blatant symbolism is used, everyone knows to rescue a glowing young woman, everyone knows that shadowy black things coming out of the ground is bad.

I also like how consistent the geography of the castle is. You KNOW that is was all mapped out from the beginning, going from area to area makes sense, and alot of times you can see places you have been or have yet to go in the distance. It's a complete sense of place.

taosterman
01-08-2008, 01:18 PM
I just finished this game about two weeks ago, actually; I stopped playing video games for somewhere in the area of seven years, so I'm on a lengthy Parish-esque catch-up of classic games of my own. Regarding the ending, I was surprised that the game not only had a final boss, but was able to implement the concept so well without it seeming like a departure from the standard gameplay. It's also not terribly difficult, which puts it in line with the rest of the game rather well.

Traumadore
01-08-2008, 01:42 PM
I still died about 4 times on the final encounter, as opposed to the maybe two failures I suffered throughout the rest of the game.

Sprite
01-08-2008, 02:57 PM
Ico is great fun, both to watch and to play. There need to be more simple puzzle-oriented games like this. And games that make you actually care when the girl gets stolen HOLY CRAP SHE'S IN THE BLACK HOLE THINGIE AGAIN!

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the game translates the girl's ramblings the second time through. Is this true? Is it worth it?

blinkpen
01-08-2008, 03:06 PM
Only in the PAL version. I'm kind of glad my version doesn't allow that because I'd probably not have resisted the urge to play with the translation on, and that would have spoiled the magic somewhat.

Adrenaline
01-08-2008, 03:10 PM
You have to beat it to unlock the subtitles anyway. And they don't really matter, as has been discussed elsewhere on this board. You can find a script of her translated lines, not much insight.

Schmidt
01-08-2008, 03:24 PM
Lightsabers, watermelon, translations, the PAL version pretty much destroys the US version. That always made me sad.

estragon
01-09-2008, 02:23 AM
Only in the PAL version.

And the Japanese one!

Although, yeah, most of the dialogue isn't that interesting. If you really want to know, the script was posted on the GIA. You can still read it on the GIA mirror.

The watermelons are overrated, but the lightsaber is fun.

My roommates last year got a kick out of it that the lightsaber grows when you hold Yorda's hand. They thought that was very . . . Freudian.

Patrick
01-09-2008, 10:46 AM
so...

at what point can we actually discuss spoilers? I seriously don't want to ruin the ending for anyone, so I wouldn't mind waiting a week or two before getting into the ending and symbolism of the story.

Adrenaline
01-09-2008, 11:30 AM
This is the story thread AKA SPOILER MADNESS

Tomm Guycot
01-09-2008, 11:53 AM
so...

at what point can we actually discuss spoilers? I seriously don't want to ruin the ending for anyone, so I wouldn't mind waiting a week or two before getting into the ending and symbolism of the story.

I'll take the heat:

All the shadow monsters were kids like Ico.
Yorda was a sacrifice for the queen.
The castle collapses.
Ico finds Yorda on the beach - is she dead? is HE dead?

discuss

Egarwaen
01-09-2008, 12:05 PM
Doesn't the Queen refer to Yorda as her daughter in a couple of places?

Jakanden
01-09-2008, 12:11 PM
Ico is great fun, both to watch and to play. There need to be more simple puzzle-oriented games like this. And games that make you actually care when the girl gets stolen HOLY CRAP SHE'S IN THE BLACK HOLE THINGIE AGAIN!

I had the exact opposite reaction. Yorda pissed me off through most of the game with things like not following even after standing there holding down the button, not following through doors even when she was pretty close and so on. After a few hours, I wanted the bastards to take her.

Sorry, I was not a huge fan of ICO and prefer SotC far more.

Mr. Sensible
01-09-2008, 12:36 PM
To be fair, wasn't Yorda blind? That would certainly account for some sluggishness on her part.

Alastor
01-09-2008, 02:08 PM
^^ Interesting, I've never thought of that before. Though if that's true, I have to give her credit for making those death-defying leaps.

Also, yay at this choice of Fun Club. I played Ico shortly after wrapping up SotC back in '05, and I immediately saw why people love it. I'll never forget how excited I was when I lit up both gates to open the way out. After that, I just had to finish the game right then and there.

And then there was the big "Holy shit" epiphany just before the final battle. No other game has managed to do that for me.

Adrenaline
01-09-2008, 03:19 PM
All the shadow monsters were kids like Ico.

I think only the ones in that room were, because the other ones didn't look like that at all and there were too many of them.

Ico finds Yorda on the beach - is she dead? is HE dead?

No.

taosterman
01-09-2008, 03:23 PM
I think only the ones in that room were, because the other ones didn't look like that at all and there were too many of them.

I don't know, how many do you actually fight over the course of the game.... Thirty? Forty? Maybe the ones in the chamber at the end are ones that haven't been fully bred into the Queen's soldiers yet. Which would explain why they don't fight back at all.

Makkara
01-09-2008, 03:44 PM
To be fair, wasn't Yorda blind? That would certainly account for some sluggishness on her part.

I think that was just a misunderstanding from some of the earlier previews. She certainly seems able to navigate her surroundings well enough, and I'm pretty sure she points out things she sees to Ico from time to time.

Adrenaline
01-09-2008, 04:09 PM
I don't know, how many do you actually fight over the course of the game.... Thirty? Forty? Maybe the ones in the chamber at the end are ones that haven't been fully bred into the Queen's soldiers yet. Which would explain why they don't fight back at all.

You fight a lot, actually... too many for my tastes. The combat was pretty lame so I didn't like it intruding on the rest of the game. That fully bred thing doesn't make sense, since a lot of them enter the battle as spiders.

Kishi
01-09-2008, 04:52 PM
I think only the ones in that room were, because the other ones didn't look like that at all and there were too many of them.

No.

Egarwaen
01-09-2008, 05:02 PM
My take was that all the Shadow Monsters were kids like Ico. Either they were taken earlier and their bodies had since rotted away from inside the containers, or the Queen was using the horned boys to create all the shadow monsters, and the ones you were fighting at the end were their most concentrated form.

I really have to wonder, though... Ico was apparently the last horned boy, since all of the other containers were full....

Adrenaline
01-09-2008, 05:49 PM
No.

PROVE IT

I really have to wonder, though... Ico was apparently the last horned boy, since all of the other containers were full....

Yeah, she needed their energy or sumtin' to transfer herself into Yorda's body.

locit
01-09-2008, 07:08 PM
Ico finds Yorda on the beach - is she dead? is HE dead?
I don't know about Yorda, but the scene itself is apparently Ico's dream according to one 'interpretation' as stated by Ueda, and coming from him that's usually as good as a full explanation. See the bottom of this (http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3144673) article.

Guy
01-09-2008, 10:07 PM
I think only the ones in that room were, because the other ones didn't look like that at all and there were too many of them.


I'm pretty sure they all are, and the last ones are just there to shock you with the sudden realization of what you've been fighting all along.

Stiv
01-09-2008, 11:12 PM
I've always been a little mystified by people who think that this game really has a story of any major substance. I thought the "reveal" where the shadow monsters are shown to be the other horned kids was nicely done, even though it was obvious from the beginning of the game (come on, guys). I honestly don't think Ico's story, such as it is, is worth discussing until you've finished Shadow of the Colossus. There's just not enough there.

Sprite
01-09-2008, 11:36 PM
I agree that there's not a lot there, but I disagree that paucity of plot is a problem. Most videogames just as simple as Ico, but those also spend far too much time developing those plots with needless cutscenes, pretending they're more complex than they really are. Ico pricks the imagination, so to speak, and lets the player fill in most of the details. This simplicity enhances engrossment and draws the player in rather than alienating him/her.

Of course, as has been said, the controls can sometimes alienate the player, but that's a separate issue.

liquid
01-10-2008, 05:15 PM
So...

Did anybody not jump when the bridge began to retract? That was one of the things I found most impressive about the game: even though the jump was obviously impossible to make, it never even occurred to me to try and leave Yorda behind.

Stiv
01-10-2008, 05:59 PM
I agree that there's not a lot there, but I disagree that paucity of plot is a problem.

It's definitely not a bad thing, it's more of a general wonder as to why there are really two seperate Ico threads (since this game doesn't really have spoilers, anyway). It doesn't need a story and that's one of the many things I like about it aesthetically, despite not really liking the actual game parts.

alexb
01-10-2008, 06:35 PM
The song that plays in the ending is pretty much perfect, I think.

Lumber Baron
01-10-2008, 08:20 PM
I've always been a little mystified by people who think that this game really has a story of any major substance. I thought the "reveal" where the shadow monsters are shown to be the other horned kids was nicely done, even though it was obvious from the beginning of the game (come on, guys). I honestly don't think Ico's story, such as it is, is worth discussing until you've finished Shadow of the Colossus. There's just not enough there.
From the beginning of the game? I definitely suspected as much after a while, but I don't know how you'd know from the get-go. How many encounters is it before you start seeing ones with horns?

Stiv
01-10-2008, 08:32 PM
From the beginning of the game? I definitely suspected as much after a while, but I don't know how you'd know from the get-go. How many encounters is it before you start seeing ones with horns?

I'm pretty sure you see them in the first room where you fight them. Maybe it took me a couple of battles but it was kind of like 'Oh, yeah.' Could've been when I saw the ones with horns, not sure.

Egarwaen
01-12-2008, 06:22 PM
I'm pretty sure you see them in the first room where you fight them. Maybe it took me a couple of battles but it was kind of like 'Oh, yeah.' Could've been when I saw the ones with horns, not sure.

IIRC, you don't see any with horns until the second-last room of the game.