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View Full Version : Selection for Societal Sanity #2: Metal Gear


Parish
01-16-2008, 02:21 PM
We began our Solid Snake Simulation with Metal Gear Solid 3. Now let's journey forward in time to the next generation (timeline-wise, not hardware-wise) with the next chapter of the series.

Yes, I'm ignoring Portable Ops.

Metal Gear
Konami | Action | MSX/NES | 1987

Any version is fine but I recommend the MSX port on Subsistence.

Jakanden
01-16-2008, 02:32 PM
I just played this about 8 months ago, but it is short enough to where I will probably play it again later this week (assuming it works on the 80GB PS3).

mopinks
01-16-2008, 06:54 PM
I'm not sure if I have the stomach for this! maybe I'll just skip it and wait for MG2.

TIME PARADOX

Parish
01-16-2008, 07:30 PM
Yeah, wow, this game... is not as good as I remembered. Although I'm better at it now! I didn't really "get" the concept of stealth the first time around. Now that I've played the sequel I, like, way grok it.

alexb
01-16-2008, 08:09 PM
When did you last play it?

Abominable K
01-16-2008, 08:31 PM
This game is too easy at times, thanks to the regenerating items, combined with the corner punch.

Parish
01-16-2008, 09:06 PM
Played it for more than just a few minutes, you mean? About... 1988.

Sprite
01-16-2008, 09:17 PM
How long will this selection be up? I've only got time for weekend gaming at the moment.

Parish
01-16-2008, 09:43 PM
Until next week. We'll clear the table for Burnout Paradise and No More Heroes, I think.

Jakanden
01-17-2008, 02:37 AM
I want to play No More Heroes but I won't be getting it till that Thursday (th 24th) or so. Hopefully the FC doesn't start on Monday or something.

Adrenaline
01-17-2008, 06:22 AM
I can't remember why I stopped my initial attempt but I think it involved how old the game seemed. I'll try again.

Excitemike
01-17-2008, 07:03 AM
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/eye_robot/gamespite/metalgear.jpg

That's just how big trancievers were in 1987.

Jakanden
01-17-2008, 07:05 AM
I actually enjoyed the MSX port when I played last year. Then again, that might be because I am a Metal Gear fanboy.

TheSL
01-17-2008, 07:10 AM
That's just how big trancievers were in 1987.

Where the hell did Snake keep that thing? Was it always on him like a fanny pack? I would think that would make it difficult when crawling around through tunnels and such.

Excitemike
01-17-2008, 07:20 AM
Where the hell did Snake keep that thing? Was it always on him like a fanny pack? I would think that would make it difficult when crawling around through tunnels and such.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/eye_robot/misc%20t/snake.jpg
Snake, can you hold on a sec? I have Zack Morris on the other line.

Kishi
01-17-2008, 07:34 AM
Where the hell did Snake keep that thing? Was it always on him like a fanny pack? I would think that would make it difficult when crawling around through tunnels and such.

Don't worry; crawling wasn't introduced until Metal Gear 2.

ringworm
01-17-2008, 07:36 AM
I picked up MGS2 and MGS3: Subsistence at my local PawnStop, and booted into this last night. Why is it so different than the NES game that I remember? Didn't I use to start outside in a jungle by trucks?

TheSL
01-17-2008, 07:40 AM
Why is it so different than the NES game that I remember? Didn't I use to start outside in a jungle by trucks?

Because the port was very unfaithful to the original outside of the basic mechanics.

Jakanden
01-17-2008, 07:46 AM
Because the port was very unfaithful to the original outside of the basic mechanics.

Indeed and the translation was horrible.

TheSL
01-17-2008, 07:50 AM
And it didn't even have Metal Gear in it!

Parish
01-17-2008, 09:11 AM
And you smell like one, too!

The scary thing is that the original transceiver worked just like the modern Codec, by directly stimulating your ear's inner bones. Imagine cramming that thing in your earhole and you understand why Snake sounds so constipated all the time.

Sven
01-17-2008, 09:39 AM
Where the hell did Snake keep that thing? Was it always on him like a fanny pack?

I always pictured him as having a giant backpack like Dial-Tone from GI Joe did - the NES Sprite was so vaguely drawn that you can kind of see something backpack-shaped at times.

Besides, to carry 30 remote controlled missiles, he'd better.

I'm sticking to the NES version for this one, as in spite of owning Subsistence I'm scared of the unfamiliar. And, besides, this is the King of All Nostalgia, as Metal Gear was my first NES game.

q 3
01-17-2008, 11:11 AM
Metal Gear NES does have one key advantage: totally rockin' sneaking music.

Red Hedgehog
01-17-2008, 12:08 PM
I tried to play this either right before or after playing Subsistence and man, it just seemed so primitive and so much harder than the NES version I remembered from my youth. But I guess fun club is a good enough excuse to get through it finally.

Thinaran
01-17-2008, 04:13 PM
I'm not going to play, but I'm going to follow this thread just to find out how the hell you're supposed to beat that damn tank. I couldn't even do it with save-states.

cortbassist89
01-17-2008, 04:17 PM
I'll try it again, but given how clear and easy MGS is, I can't stand how archaic the MG controls are, and how I can't ever figure out easily wth I'm supposed to do.

ProTIP: I believe it's in MG1 for MSX that you can hide in a cardboard box and the guards won't notice you if you're not moving, regardless of if it makes sense to put a box there, or if they step on you.

It might be MG2 though, I don't remember.

Jonny2x4
01-17-2008, 06:32 PM
The NES version is so badly coded, its not just funny, its friggin hilarious. For those who are familiar with the game, you probably know that the messages given by your allies via radio are actually room-oriented. Well the you know that in the NES version, the first few areas were re-arranged, with most of the trucks and such moved to the exterior areas. However,l they forgot to rearrange some of the radio messages. When you call Schneider in front of the room where you find the gas mask, he'll tell you the location of the mine detector. Why does he does this? Because the same spot in the MSX2 version is actually a landmine.

There are other bugs in the game too, like the fact you can shoot while wearing the cardboard box, the reset the enemy positions by using the transceiver, escape alert mode with the binoculars and even skip the Super Computer boss and jump straight to Big Boss.

Sven
01-18-2008, 10:25 AM
I'm not going to play, but I'm going to follow this thread just to find out how the hell you're supposed to beat that damn tank. I couldn't even do it with save-states.

You have to be of a certain rank (three stars?) to beat the first tank. At that point, it's relatively simple - just walk out, mine the road, and duck back into deep cover.

The second tank - the one with the mine-clearing shovel on the front - is basically just "grenade launcher to death" strategy, but I think you can cheat and reset it to the back of the room via the transceiver trick.

Well the you know that in the NES version, the first few areas were re-arranged, with most of the trucks and such moved to the exterior areas. However,l they forgot to rearrange some of the radio messages. When you call Schneider in front of the room where you find the gas mask, he'll tell you the location of the mine detector. Why does he does this? Because the same spot in the MSX2 version is actually a landmine.

Hell, I beat the game the first time without even getting in contact with Schneider. His call is certainly room-specific.

There are other bugs in the game too, like the fact you can shoot while wearing the cardboard box

That always made sense to me - what box doesn't have a slot in it that you can stick a gun through? If you've got the silencer, you should be able to get away with it.

(Okay, so using the grenade launcher or any other heavy weapon was more than a bit out there.)

Jonny2x4
01-18-2008, 05:40 PM
Hell, I beat the game the first time without even getting in contact with Schneider. His call is certainly room-specific.

If you call him at the wind barrier at the roof of Building No. 1, he tells you to go the second floor to get the bomb blast suit. However, the suit is actually in Building No. 4 (the building where you find Gray Fox), which was originally the basement floor of Building No. 1 in the MSX2 version.

What you find in the second floor though is an iron glove, which is supposed to do unlock the door where Dr. Pettrovich is sealed. It actually does shit, since you can unlock the door with your fist without the glove (at least in the Japanese and American versions, they corrected this in the PAL version).

I also recommend dialing Big Boss' frequency in every room where you find a new item, especially in the room where you find the enemy uniform.


That always made sense to me - what box doesn't have a slot in it that you can stick a gun through? If you've got the silencer, you should be able to get away with it.

(Okay, so using the grenade launcher or any other heavy weapon was more than a bit out there.)

You don't get to use your weapon in the MSX version while wearing the cardboard box.

Also, your gunfire actually is supposed to only travel in a half-screen lenght, but in the NES version it travels to full-screen lenght.

estragon
01-18-2008, 09:04 PM
This jumps from stupidly difficult at the beginning to stupidly easy once you find the all powerful carboard box and move up to Class 3. I'm imagining the difficulty will ramp up later, but the learning curve hear was pretty weird.

Also: I was stuck trying to find the Bomb Blast Suit. I searched every room, tried every key on every door, than gave up and FAQed it. Apparently I was supposed to punch every wall in the basement until I found a bombable wall. Oh, 8-bit games. You're so adorable.'

EDIT:

1) One-way elevators? Seriously?

2) Not enough switching between keys with arbitrary numbers on them while people with jetpacks or something try to kill you.

EDIT 2:
This was all right.

I seriously think it could have been about 1000 times better with keys that upgrade instead ofhaving to switch between 8 by the end of the game.

Jonny2x4
01-19-2008, 07:44 AM
Also: I was stuck trying to find the Bomb Blast Suit. I searched every room, tried every key on every door, than gave up and FAQed it. Apparently I was supposed to punch every wall in the basement until I found a bombable wall. Oh, 8-bit games. You're so adorable.'

Schneider always tells you the location of key items in the rooms where you need them. His frequency is 120.79

I seriously think it could have been about 1000 times better with keys that upgrade instead ofhaving to switch between 8 by the end of the game.

Apparently it was an intentional design choice by Kojima that was later discarded in MGS1.

Abominable K
01-19-2008, 09:44 AM
I just remembered that the one part I've always had trouble with was the damn jetpack guards. How the hell do you get past them without triggering an alert?

estragon
01-19-2008, 09:46 AM
Schneider always tells you the location of key items in the rooms where you need them. His frequency is 120.79

Maybe I did something wrong, but I didn't get Schneider's frequency until really late in the game. Big Boss kept telling me to call him from the very start, but the game didn't tell me his frequency until 2/3 through the game or so.

Jonny2x4
01-19-2008, 10:26 AM
Maybe I did something wrong, but I didn't get Schneider's frequency until really late in the game. Big Boss kept telling me to call him from the very start, but the game didn't tell me his frequency until 2/3 through the game or so.

The game never gives you Schneider's frequency for some reason. If you mess around the transceiver in the first screen of the third floor at the beginning of the game (in front of the north elevator), you'll receive a message from Schneider from his frequency.

BTW. The characters change frequency when you reach the entrance of Building No. 2. You have to call them to get their new frequency numbers.

Parish
01-19-2008, 11:12 AM
The game never gives you Schneider's frequency for some reason.
"Maybe you should check the back of the CD case."

Really though, I think it was in the manual, but it never says anything about that in the game.

Kishi
01-19-2008, 11:34 AM
The only character whose frequency is given in the manual is Big Boss, so it seems you were actually expected to test all one hundred frequencies in order to reach Schneider. Which isn't all that surprising; Kojima wouldn't work out the difference between "pleasantly immersive" and "punishingly arcane" until this one was already in the can.

TheSL
01-19-2008, 12:47 PM
I beat it, but I don't think I scored particularly well:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c74/TheSL/DSC01728.jpg

After having played the solid series and MG2 first, this one seemed really arcane in its design. I too was frustrated by the Zelda 1 style "bomb random walls for items" part. Anyone else find it hilarious that Metal Gear doesn't even fight back, but instead the wall-mounted lasers do all the fighting?

Jonny2x4
01-19-2008, 05:49 PM
"Maybe you should check the back of the CD case."

Really though, I think it was in the manual, but it never says anything about that in the game.

I seriously did consider that possibility (considering Kojima tends to reuse the same tricks), but nope.
http://junkerhq.net/MetalGear/mgmsximages.html


The only character whose frequency is given in the manual is Big Boss, so it seems you were actually expected to test all one hundred frequencies in order to reach Schneider. Which isn't all that surprising; Kojima wouldn't work out the difference between "pleasantly immersive" and "punishingly arcane" until this one was already in the can.

Yeah. You just happen to automatically received a message from him when you set the transceiver to his frequency number in the first screen of Building No. 1 Floor 3. I only discovered this by accident while playing with the radio and I think its pretty stupid.

ringworm
01-19-2008, 09:34 PM
So I did this all today. Pretty interesting. A lot of you guys complained about the bomb walls, but for some reason I had no problem with it. The thing that did piss me off and hang me up for like 30 minutes (at least) was getting the rocket launcher and compass. Having to contact Jennifer to leave you the launcher/open that door was ridiculous. In general I don't like any of the ways the non-Big Boss transmitter things were introduced, its all very arcane..

Still, I enjoyed it enough to make it worthwhile. I'm interested in seeing MG2 and how they improve the game.

Parish
01-19-2008, 10:00 PM
Man, I wanted to do this one but after playing a bit today... I can't. This game has not aged well at all. At. All.

estragon
01-19-2008, 10:08 PM
Is the next one any better?

alexb
01-20-2008, 12:48 AM
Yeah, it's better, but it's still pretty unfriendly.

Maybe you should have gone for Ghost Babel to get your two-dimensional Snake on?

Tomm Guycot
01-20-2008, 09:12 AM
Is the next one any better?

Told you so.

Sapper Gopher
01-20-2008, 06:01 PM
If you don't feel like slogging through the original, you can always experience the first Metal Gear story by reading the F.X. Nine novelization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worlds_of_Power) instead. Kojima was consulted for that, right?

Merus
01-20-2008, 06:20 PM
The NES version is so badly coded, its not just funny, its friggin hilarious. For those who are familiar with the game, you probably know that the messages given by your allies via radio are actually room-oriented. Well the you know that in the NES version, the first few areas were re-arranged, with most of the trucks and such moved to the exterior areas. However,l they forgot to rearrange some of the radio messages. When you call Schneider in front of the room where you find the gas mask, he'll tell you the location of the mine detector. Why does he does this? Because the same spot in the MSX2 version is actually a landmine.

There are other bugs in the game too, like the fact you can shoot while wearing the cardboard box, the reset the enemy positions by using the transceiver, escape alert mode with the binoculars and even skip the Super Computer boss and jump straight to Big Boss.
Considering that calls in the later games don't make a whole lot of sense in context either, are you sure it's a bug?

Kojima wouldn't work out the difference between "pleasantly immersive" and "punishingly arcane"

A very strong argument could be made that Kojima still hasn't worked out "pleasantly immersive".

Jonny2x4
01-20-2008, 08:23 PM
If you don't feel like slogging through the original, you can always experience the first Metal Gear story by reading the F.X. Nine novelization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worlds_of_Power) instead. Kojima was consulted for that, right?

Nope. I'm sure its based on the American "localization" of the NES game, where "Vermon CaTaffy" (Muammar al-Gaddafi parody) was the villain and Commander South (Oliver North parody) was Snake's CO. They even gave Snake a real name (Justin Halley), which is obviously non-canon in context of the later games.

Considering that calls in the later games don't make a whole lot of sense in context either, are you sure it's a bug?

The Japanese Famicom version makes some of the same mistakes, yeah. They're not mere translation errors, so much as porting errors.

EDIT: Oh you meant "later games". I thought you wrote "late in the game".

estragon
01-21-2008, 01:09 AM
Told you so.

Yes. Yes you did.

Also: Thank you.

Sven
01-21-2008, 07:55 AM
Burned through it in a couple of hours on Saturday - and, yeah, the Schneider thing still bugs me to this day. I think it's held up a lot better than a lot of NES games, even given how weirdly screwed-up the endgame is.

On the other hand, the bit with the "transmitter" is still absolutely brilliant, and I remember being so proud of myself when I figured out what it did as a kid. It makes sense given the plot of the game, as well - Snake's continually being given just enough rope to hang himself with.