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View Full Version : Shivam, this one's for you.


Calorie Mate
07-02-2007, 02:35 PM
...ok, so I might concede that Ride the Lightning is a better album that Kill 'Em All. I absolutely love thrash metal, but...yeah, it randomly popped up on iTunes the other day, and I think I may have had a (slight) change of heart. The #1 and #2 picks, I think, have switched places.


*grumble*

shivam
07-02-2007, 02:49 PM
I knew you'd see the light. Kill em All, while a really good album, just hasn't aged as well as ride the lightning.

Crazy Larry
07-02-2007, 03:29 PM
I've never been able to grasp all of the love for Ride The Lightning. Don't get me wrong, it's a good album, but something about it never really clicked for me to the point where I can consider it great like Metallica's other three big albums. Also, Master Of Puppets is totally the best album ever.

shivam
07-02-2007, 03:31 PM
well, ride the lightning has For Whom the Bell Tolls and Creeping Death. nothing more needs to be said.

Crazy Larry
07-02-2007, 03:34 PM
I dunno. Anytime I start to doubt the genius of MOP I listen to Disposable Heroes and see the light again.

shivam
07-02-2007, 03:38 PM
Master of Puppets is awesome, don't get me wrong. its just that RtL is ever so slightly 'more' awesome.

Crazy Larry
07-02-2007, 04:02 PM
You're wrong. I demand that you recognize my subjective taste in music as being superior to yours.

shivam
07-02-2007, 04:06 PM
i'm a metallica fan. ergo, any metallica over no metallica.

Crazy Larry
07-02-2007, 04:11 PM
i'm a metallica fan. ergo, any metallica over no metallica.I dunno, I prefer silence to St. Anger.

shivam
07-02-2007, 04:14 PM
you got me there.

although, i did see metallica at the first and last show of the st. anger tour, and it was a lot better sounding after they had practiced the songs for a year.

Crazy Larry
07-02-2007, 04:17 PM
Sadly, I can't really afford to go see any major bands live. I was rather downfallen that I couldn't go see Blind Guardian last year.

reibeatall
07-02-2007, 04:17 PM
St. Anger is the only Metallica I'll remotely listen to.

I can recognize their greatness, but I just don't like it.

And that's all I can add to this conversation that has nothing to do with me.

Calorie Mate
07-02-2007, 04:20 PM
I still don't believe you on that last bit, no matter how many times you tell me that.

Anyway! Kill 'Em All has aged rather well, that's not the problem. When I want a straight thrash album, there's no better choice. Ride the Lightning has just the right mix of thrash and straight metal, though, and the purty parts (like in Fade to Black) really add to the overall package. I actually think Ride the Lightning is a better song than For Whom the Bell Tolls, but hey, why choose when you can just listen to both?

Master of Puppets is still my pick for the single best Metallica song ever. Tracks like The Thing That Should Never Be, though, keep it at a solid #3 pick for me. Man, I hate that song.

Calorie Mate
07-02-2007, 04:21 PM
Sadly, I can't really afford to go see any major bands live. I was rather downfallen that I couldn't go see Blind Guardian last year.

That makes two of us. I would have eaten the cost, but scheduling conflicts said otherwise.

Crazy Larry
07-02-2007, 04:25 PM
That makes two of us. I would have eaten the cost, but scheduling conflicts said otherwise.Yeah, it kind of sucks that the closest place name band generally come is a four hour drive from me, not to mention that my days off from work are in the middle of the week. Thankfully there's a great local music scene where I live. We've even produced a couple of metal bands that are starting to get some national attention.

Evil Dead Junkie
07-02-2007, 06:42 PM
Ride the Lightening is a great album, but Fight Fire With Fire is one of Metallica's worse songs.

mr_bungle700
07-02-2007, 10:16 PM
That's the problem I have with choosing a favorite Metallica album: of the four that I actually enjoy, none are entirely perfect. I like the maturity of Justice and Puppets, but both have weak tracks, whereas Lightning is solid but not as ambitious and Kill 'Em All is just way too uneven. I usually land on Puppets as my default answer, but then I feel guilty for ignoring the good stuff you can find on the other albums.

shivam
07-02-2007, 10:33 PM
i prefer to think of metallica as a vast collection of awesome songs than a set of albums. cause there are many lumps of crap interspersed with the diamonds.

mr_bungle700
07-02-2007, 10:38 PM
That is indeed a wise approach.

Nicholai
07-03-2007, 07:22 AM
I find ...And Justice for All to be my favorite, but I'm one of those people who like the Black Album too along with Kill 'Em All, Ride the Lightning, and Master of Puppets. Things sort of fell apart for me after the Black Album, but I still find a good couple tracks even on the later discs.

Jeanie
07-03-2007, 09:15 AM
I would like to say in St. Anger's defence, that if it didn't sound like it was recorded by two monkey in a trash can, it would go from total crap to kinda crappy. The Some Kind of Monster cd has some songs from St.A that were recorded by someone with half a brain and they're ok songs.

shivam
07-03-2007, 09:22 AM
like i said, they're actually decent when heard live.

personally, the bulk of my favorite songs come from load/reload, but even i know that those aren't albums you hold up as the height of metallica.

Calorie Mate
07-03-2007, 10:07 AM
Shivam - The time when I can listen to those albums has passed. I think your approach is a good one, though, because even in their hey day, they occasionally wrote some pretty bad songs. (Still proportionally better than Megadeth, though. They've got some great songs, but when Dave Mustain writes a bad song, it's a bad song. I guess my point is that the "lumps of crap" in their earlier days could have been worse.)

Nicholai - Black Album wasn't terrible, it just...I don't know, it isn't why I liked that band.

TheSL
07-03-2007, 10:38 AM
Still proportionally better than Megadeth, though. They've got some great songs, but when Dave Mustain writes a bad song, it's a bad song.

Have you heard their new album? Mustaine is just getting a little too preachy/protest-y for me these days.

Calorie Mate
07-03-2007, 10:45 AM
Like Metallica, I don't think Megadeth has released an album I deem worth listening to in at least a decade.

TheSL
07-03-2007, 10:47 AM
Ditto. I had just borrowed my little brother's copy to check it out since I was curious if by some fluke it would be excellent.

It wasn't.

Balrog
07-03-2007, 10:59 AM
There is none more black than Metallica.

Calorie Mate
07-03-2007, 11:46 AM
Honestly, I secretly wish that either of those bands would put out a great album again, but I know it won't happen. "Gears of War" by Megadeth pretty much proves it.

Deadguy2322
07-03-2007, 12:00 PM
There is none more black than Metallica.

Glenn Danzig would beg to differ.


I do have to wonder, would Metallica have descended into suckitude if they had gone to Rick Rubin instead of Bob Rock for the Black Album? Discuss.


Anybody who likes Metallica should track down A Tribute To Metallica by Die Krupps. A German industrial band covering Metallica's most famous tracks up to and including the Black Ablum. Their version of One is interesting, but their version of Battery will require neck replacement.

shivam
07-03-2007, 12:06 PM
Metallica is my favorite hard rock band. They're not, however, my favorite metal band. Metallica hasn't been a metal band for a long time, and its unfair to judge them as such.

Jeanie
07-03-2007, 01:26 PM
There is none more black than Metallica.

Umm.. They (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinal_Tap) might have something to say about that.

But Glenn Danzig is 15ft of pure awesomeness in a 5 ft person.

Kupek
07-03-2007, 01:32 PM
I am amazed anyone would consider Kill 'Em All better than Ride the Lightning. The sophistication of the lyrics and musical composition is remarkbely better with Ride the Lightning. The difference between the two amazes me when I remember it.

St. Anger's two problems are it's lack of melodies and poor recording quality. I've heard the songs live, and they sounded better. And I think Load is a solid album. Bleeding Me and The Outlaw Torn are the best of the album, and stand out as some of Metallica's best, period.

shivam
07-03-2007, 01:33 PM
kupek- those are my two favorites too. especially in the wonderful S&M versions.

Deadguy2322
07-03-2007, 01:50 PM
Metallica is my favorite hard rock band. They're not, however, my favorite metal band. Metallica hasn't been a metal band for a long time, and its unfair to judge them as such.

The transition was their choice of Bob Rock for producer. He really softened their sound. It would be interesting to hear how somebody else would have produce the Black Album and Load. I prefer ReLoad to Load, but the best remix was left off the disc. If you haven't already heard it, KMFDM's remix for King Nothing is well worth seeking out.

Kupek
07-03-2007, 02:05 PM
Bob Rock influenced their sound, but I think the transition was mostly their own. The lyrical structure and composition of Black was purposefuly simpler than Justice, Puppets and Lightning. And I don't begrudge them that. I think it's natural for talented musicians to eventually make music that no longer fits in the genre they started in.

Deadguy2322
07-03-2007, 02:10 PM
Bob Rock influenced their sound, but I think the transition was mostly their own. The lyrical structure and composition of Black was purposefuly simpler than Justice, Puppets and Lightning. And I don't begrudge them that. I think it's natural for talented musicians to eventually make music that no longer fits in the genre they started in.

That is fine, but I think a sparer production style, like Rick Rubin's, might have made them sound like something more than just AC/DC's louder cousins.

Look at what Rubin's production did for The Cult, Danzig, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Johnny Cash etc.

I think it would have pushed Metallica to grow as musicians, as opposed to Rock's radio-friendly, middle-of-the-road near overproduction style.

Calorie Mate
07-03-2007, 02:15 PM
I am amazed anyone would consider Kill 'Em All better than Ride the Lightning. The sophistication of the lyrics and musical composition is remarkbely better with Ride the Lightning. The difference between the two amazes me when I remember it.

It's apparently very hard to make a great thrash album. Kill 'Em All is at the very top of a very short list of truly awesome thrash albums, for me. I just can't help but get pumped up whenever I hear any track off of it. As I said, I agree with you about Ride the Lightning, but it was a tough choice.


The transition was their choice of Bob Rock for producer. He really softened their sound. It would be interesting to hear how somebody else would have produce the Black Album and Load. I prefer ReLoad to Load, but the best remix was left off the disc. If you haven't already heard it, KMFDM's remix for King Nothing is well worth seeking out.

I agree with you about Bob Rock, but I think the change also has to do with the death of Cliff Burton. As I understand it, he had a lot of input on all the albums prior to the Black Album.

Deadguy2322
07-03-2007, 02:21 PM
I agree with you about Bob Rock, but I think the change also has to do with the death of Cliff Burton. As I understand it, he had a lot of input on all the albums prior to the Black Album.

Correct me if I am wrong, but he was gone before ...And Justice For All was conceived, right?

The Black Album was quite the switch to come right after Justice.


Since there seem to be some fellow thrash afficionados on this board, I pose a question:

Anthrax. Joey Belladonna or John Bush? In this case, I vote for Bush.

Calorie Mate
07-03-2007, 02:23 PM
He helped write a lot of ...And Justice For All, but died before it was finished (and, obviously, before they started recording).

Deadguy2322
07-03-2007, 07:38 PM
He helped write a lot of ...And Justice For All, but died before it was finished (and, obviously, before they started recording).

That would explain the timing of their descent, then.

Calorie Mate
07-04-2007, 12:37 AM
Right. sigh