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Parish
05-19-2008, 08:10 PM
This forum has gotten out of hand. Let's take a more orderly approach and rethink the purpose of these thread. Everyone currently running a thread, please do continue and finish 'em off. Once we've cleared a few we can look at how to make this meme work.

reibeatall
05-19-2008, 08:14 PM
*golfclap*

Merus
05-19-2008, 08:34 PM
I don't know. X-Com, Mystic Quest and Silent Hill all seem to have stalled, LttP is about to wrap up, Mega Man is a wash and so by my count that's four 'active' threads, two of which started today.

Honestly I think we'd be served by some kind of minimum progress rule, so threads that aren't really being updated can be put in cold storage until the author gets off their bee-hind and queues a few updates up.

Gredlen
05-19-2008, 08:56 PM
I absolutely think there does need to be a set of general principles people should keep in mind when doing their LP thread. Probably the important thing is to differentiate yourself from other threads and provide something unique in your LP that any random person can't get out of the game by themselves.

There's a whole thread on the LP subforum on Something Awful that discusses how to make a Let's Play thread and I think it's pretty interesting. One of my favorite posts on the very first page says "If you can't think of a reason why you're doing an LP besides "I want to do an LP", don't do it."

In other words, you should have a definite purpose in making a Let's Play thread that isn't just "I like this game."

Zarathustra
05-19-2008, 09:05 PM
Maybe you could institute something like the mandatory waiting periods for firearms purchase, like a one-on-one email session with each LP candidate to guage the sincerity and longevity of their enthusiasm for the project, their worthiness as a contributor and the likelihoood that they will finish what they start. Jus' a modest proposal. EAT BABIES.

And i'm curious... is there a feasible way to construct one of these in its entirety offline, or with an online utility, before cut/pasting into a thread? I know it can be fun to ask questions, discuss and even influence the trajectory of a LP session (hence "let's") and when everything goes right it's illuminating and great (Brickroad's FF thread) but it might also be cool to jack in one night and have a new thang all done up and ready for prom out of nowhere... and since the problems this thread is having stem from people getting sidetracked, losing direction, starting off on the wrong foot, having life happen to them, etc., it might be a preferable option.

edit'- I second Gredlen's emotions. Again, Brickroad's card-counting tricks made his entry what it was. I have no interest in pictorial walkthroughs unless I'm looking for help with a game. Let's Play is fundamentally not about walkthroughing.

Red Hedgehog
05-19-2008, 09:06 PM
Well, this makes my decision of when to start easier.

Otherwise, what Gredlen said. Maybe we can ape Something Awful even more and have a Let's Play Critique thread so people can get an idea of what works and what doesn't? I'd also be for generally throttling the number of LPs (max going at once). I'm not sure about a minimum progress requirement unless it's pretty loose (like once every three days or so).

Mightyblue
05-19-2008, 09:19 PM
I should be much better about it since I'm done with finals now (thank God), and in fact, I'm playing Mystic Quest now.

Brickroad
05-19-2008, 09:21 PM
In other words, you should have a definite purpose in making a Let's Play thread that isn't just "I like this game."

I don't know, I don't really feel like I had a purpose other than that. I mean I was going to replay FF1 anyway, and felt like showing off.

I don't really have any suggestions on how to make things more orderly because everything I can think of sounds like a bad idea. I don't like the idea of a queue because it stifles the people who would post out of sheer divine inspiration (like Loki's thread, which IMO is our best). I don't like the idea of a max limit because it's tough to tell who has given up and who is just taking a long time. I really don't like the idea of having to rap with someone before starting to get a green light because who would even want that job?

It's easy to say we'll just have rules and then bend them if we need to, but then it's only a matter of time before they get bent for one person but not another and then you have a mess on your hands. It's even worse to say here are the rules and you follow them or else because then you can't cut someone some slack when they maybe slipped up but want to try and fix it.

My ideal solution (no rules, no limit, threads live and die on their own merits) isn't good either because not everyone has the kind of free time I do where they can keep track of everything.

I guess instead I can try to offer some sage advice: if you want to start one, wait two weeks first. If you still want to do it that point you're probably in the clear. If you don't, it was probably just a passing fancy and nothing has really been lost.

Parish
05-19-2008, 09:28 PM
Yeah, this is one of those things where common sense rules should apply, because strict rules would quash the entire concept. But the problem with common sense is that it isn't really common. General guidelines would be something like:

- Don't start unless you're committed to finishing
- Don't start unless you're committed to regular posting
- Don't start unless you have something interesting and unique to share

But let's give the forum a week or so to lay fallow.

Ample Vigour
05-19-2008, 09:47 PM
I guess instead I can try to offer some sage advice: if you want to start one, wait two weeks first. If you still want to do it that point you're probably in the clear. If you don't, it was probably just a passing fancy and nothing has really been lost.

That's good way to do it. LPs are hard work and standards are only getting higher thanks to stuff like Loki's Lone Wolf artwork. Two weeks of play and writing should also give anyone planning an LP a good supply of material for if they actually do take the plunge.

SpoonyGundam
05-19-2008, 09:47 PM
Well gee. Now I feel a little bad about starting today.

But now that I'm here, I'm going to try to make the best dern "Let's Play" thread I can.

I will say, now that I've done a proper update, I can say it's a lot of work. Seriously. Other people have said it before, but it bears mentioning over and over again.

Do not make a Let's Play thread if you don't have much time.

That update I made took over an hour and a half to put together. It'll probably get faster as I go, but it's still a huge amount of effort.

nunix
05-19-2008, 09:49 PM
Yeah, this is one of those things where common sense rules should apply, because strict rules would quash the entire concept. But the problem with common sense is that it isn't really common. General guidelines would be something like:

- Don't start unless you're committed to finishing
- Don't start unless you're committed to regular posting
- Don't start unless you have something interesting and unique to share

But let's give the forum a week or so to lay fallow.

Expanded version. (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=169008&postcount=165) =p

Gredlen
05-19-2008, 09:49 PM
I don't know, I don't really feel like I had a purpose other than that. I mean I was going to replay FF1 anyway, and felt like showing off.

I'd say this is more than just "I like this game." You like the game but you're also a lot more knowledgeable about it than most people, so everyone came out of that thread knowing more about FF1 than they did before. Most people don't have anything to show off when they're playing FF1.

I agree that strict rules would stifle things, but I don't think a sudden explosion of everyone doing LPs would be all that productive either. Really, I think a broad set of guidelines would be best, so people are better able to police themselves, put some effort into it, and know (generally) what hurts and helps a Let's Play thread.

Merus
05-19-2008, 09:57 PM
I don't think a Let's Play necessarily needs a knowledgable person, but you have to have an answer to the question of 'why would this be worth reading?' that is not 'because it is game X'. The problem, and this is something that most game writing runs into, is that any written work that is only about game X is always going to be inferior to actually playing game X yourself.

Brickroad
05-19-2008, 09:59 PM
I'd say this is more than just "I like this game." You like the game but you're also a lot more knowledgeable about it than most people, so everyone came out of that thread knowing more about FF1 than they did before. Most people don't have anything to show off when they're playing FF1.

Well yeah (brickroad.epeen += 100), but I wouldn't list that as a requirement for making an interesting LP. Loki is pretty much just leaving Lone Wolf up to the whims of the peanut gallery, so whether he really knows the books or not we're not getting the benefit of his knowledge. Octoprime picked a game pretty much everyone here already knows to death, and didn't really display any superior knowledge or skill at the game, but he's a funny guy and he really made the storybook approach he used work.

I definitely think each LP should bring something to the table that wasn't there before, but we can't really nail down what that something ought to be ahead of time.

blinkpen
05-19-2008, 10:05 PM
I was thinking about starting a Half-Life 2 Let's Play, and then I realized people should just read Concerned (http://www.hlcomic.com/) instead.

Issun
05-19-2008, 10:07 PM
I'm kind of learning as I go. It's true, my first two entries were incredibly lazy, and I'm glad Parish stepped in when he did. The problem was that I was so worried about sounding like other entries on this board, that I ended up sounding like nothing
I went into it thinking that putting together a LP thread is just to have fun and let people follow you along in a game and interact. I still think that, but for God's sake, Parish is right, it should be entertaining, and while my first two entries weren't, I think my third entry was somewhat of an improvement. It's not spectacular, but I'm hoping it gets better as I go.
Also, I'm thinking about subsequent games, what I can do differently. I'd like my thread to evolve into something good, and I appreciate being given that chance.

Gredlen
05-19-2008, 10:11 PM
Well yeah (brickroad.epeen += 100), but I wouldn't list that as a requirement for making an interesting LP.

Oh, it's definitely not a requirement for an interesting LP, which is why I didn't say that. It's one of many possible approaches to making an LP, but most good LPs will, like I said earlier, do something that Joe Ordinary wouldn't get out of the game by himself. Whether that's audience participation, superior skill at the game, superior knowledge of it, humor, or something else entirely is a matter of the author's strengths.

Loki's LP would have been, to me, totally successful even without the added art, just because it's such an offbeat and obscure choice. The art, of course, makes it that much better. Similarly, I'm looking forward to Poetfox's because it's something I'd never know about or get the chance to play.

Gredlen
05-19-2008, 10:16 PM
stuff

I was actually considering doing a Mega Man LP sometime and it would have been completely and utterly different. I really don't mean any offense by that, either, I'm just saying my approach would have been about as different as anything possibly could have been while playing the same game. If you're interested, maybe I can share some of my ideas via PM. To be honest, it's something I've been mulling over the past couple of days, so none of it's concrete yet.

Tomm Guycot
05-19-2008, 10:40 PM
I told you so BUT YOU SAID I WAS CRAZY.

Who's crazy now?

djSyndrome
05-19-2008, 10:45 PM
I still want to know how the fuck someone gets to run six games. I can beat Wonder Boy III in about the same time I can clear Mega Man III, but that doesn't mean that I should go hog wild at the trough and write up the other five, er, si, uh, HOWEVER MANY OTHER games in the series.

Brickroad
05-19-2008, 10:48 PM
I told you so BUT YOU SAID I WAS CRAZY.

Who's crazy now?

I'm, uh, still pretty sure it's you. =)

Issun
05-19-2008, 10:55 PM
I still want to know how the fuck someone gets to run six games. I can beat Wonder Boy III in about the same time I can clear Mega Man III, but that doesn't mean that I should go hog wild at the trough and write up the other five, er, si, uh, HOWEVER MANY OTHER games in the series.

That's why I asked if anyone had any objections.

Issun
05-19-2008, 11:11 PM
I was actually considering doing a Mega Man LP sometime and it would have been completely and utterly different. I really don't mean any offense by that, either, I'm just saying my approach would have been about as different as anything possibly could have been while playing the same game. If you're interested, maybe I can share some of my ideas via PM. To be honest, it's something I've been mulling over the past couple of days, so none of it's concrete yet.

I don't see why two people couldn't do the same game. I mean, obviously if everyone decided now that they wanted to do thir own LPs of FF1 or LttP, it mght be a little ridiculous. But don't see how occasionally two people couldn't put different spins on the same game. Obviously that's not my decsion, as it's not my board, but do people agree with me on this?

Also, yours probably would be better than mine, but since no one jumped on any of the Mega Man games (which surprised me), I thought I might make a stab at them.

Merus
05-19-2008, 11:14 PM
I told you so BUT YOU SAID I WAS CRAZY.

Who's crazy now?
This thread has given me an awesome idea. I'd do it, but I fear the misdirected wrath of Parish so I'll wait a week to see if it's still funny.

Red Hedgehog
05-20-2008, 07:31 AM
I told you so BUT YOU SAID I WAS CRAZY.

Who's crazy now?

Hey, that was one of the few instances where I didn't think you were crazy.

shivam
05-20-2008, 09:12 AM
Also, yours probably would be better than mine, but since no one jumped on any of the Mega Man games (which surprised me), I thought I might make a stab at them.

I'm thinking its because megaman games have a disproportionately large following here, and most of us have beaten the canonical games in the series. Moreover, it's a pretty linear path, so unless you're doing some super quirky shit like starting with bubble man or something, or beating all the bosses using only the Rush Coil, we've all more or less done it.

djSyndrome
05-20-2008, 09:24 AM
super quirky shit like starting with bubble man or something,

WTF I've always started with Bubble Man. Don't tell me there's an easier way?

Zithuan
05-20-2008, 09:26 AM
I always start with Metal Man since his weapon is brokenly good.

Zef
05-20-2008, 09:30 AM
unless you're doing some super quirky shit like starting with bubble man or something, or beating all the bosses using only the Rush Coil

I vote for a playthrough where you fire the Mega Buster and/or Metal Blade at the tune of Okkusenman. And you sing the lyrics throughout.

For bonus points, Air Man Will Not Die (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUVdA9ABzpg).

MCBanjoMike
05-20-2008, 09:33 AM
WTF I've always started with Bubble Man. Don't tell me there's an easier way?

I was once like you, but...

I always start with Metal Man since his weapon is brokenly good.

Metal Man is surprisingly easy to kill and having the metal blade just makes the rest of the game more fun. You'll miss out on one energy tank, since you won't have Item 1 or 2, but you can find enough later that you'll fill up your available spaces anyway. After taking out Metal Man, pretty much anything is fair game - personally, I don't have the courage to attack Heat Man's stage without Item 2 (though I did do it once). Conversely, I make it a point of honor to never use the time stopper in Quick Man's stage; I prefer to save it for use on the man himself!

djSyndrome
05-20-2008, 09:41 AM
For bonus points, Air Man Will Not Die (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUVdA9ABzpg).

He may not die, but he sure can dance* (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm1489811).

*login req'd

blinkpen
05-20-2008, 11:52 AM
This thread has given me an awesome idea. I'd do it, but I fear the misdirected wrath of Parish so I'll wait a week to see if it's still funny.

You know, you're probably really on to something here. The key to avoiding a flood of mediocre Let's Play threads could be a golden rule of everyone with the idea of doing one waiting a minimum of one-week to mull it over and see if the idea still sounds funny or interesting to them. Usually sleeping on an idea is the best way to start off.

Sven
05-20-2008, 01:10 PM
WTF I've always started with Bubble Man. Don't tell me there's an easier way?

I'm still trying to figure this one out. Mind you, I like the Bubble Man STAGE the most (some of the best music in a game known for great music, giant frogs, neat deathtrap with the disappearing platforms and all the spikes, lots of unique enemies)... but, c'mon, he practically throws himself into the Metal Blades. It's the easiest boss in the game that's not the second Metal Man fight.

I tended to stick to the traditional Air -> Metal -> (Who the heck cares, you've got the Metal Blade and Item 2 and can pretty much beat the game at that point) routine.

Don't start unless you have something interesting and unique to share

Hopefully my "how to embezzle money while playing X-Com as ruthlessly as possible" approach counts here.

I didn't mind the other threads (since it was Brick's by-then-wrapped FF1 thread, DW, and me, I figured there'd be others)... I just don't have time to keep track of all the others at once AND write my own. Although now that the mechanics section of X-Com is over, it's actually going to be a reasonably quick run to the finish, with actually playing the game taking longer than writing about it due to the nature of the game. The last couple of missions will get a more detailed writeup, of course.

Sanagi
05-20-2008, 03:04 PM
Do not make a Let's Play thread if you don't have much time.
This. I knew it was going to be time-consuming, but even so I was surprised. My blog has been gathering dust while I write this thing.

Brickroad
05-22-2008, 09:40 AM
This. I knew it was going to be time-consuming, but even so I was surprised. My blog has been gathering dust while I write this thing.

You could always just cross-post the updates to your blog!

McClain
05-22-2008, 05:36 PM
I was working on a FFIV Cecil solo run, but it was sooooooo boring, and eventually impossible, that I'm glad I didn't start a doomed Let's Play.

Ample Vigour
05-22-2008, 06:15 PM
I was working on a FFIV Cecil solo run, but it was sooooooo boring, and eventually impossible, that I'm glad I didn't start a doomed Let's Play.

Where did you hit the stopping point? Mt. Ordeals?

McClain
05-22-2008, 07:10 PM
Where did you hit the stopping point? Mt. Ordeals?

I was going good until I hit the Water Fiend, and then I had to grind to out pace its healing. Then I got to the Air Fiend, and you have to use Kain to STOP HER SPIN!. Then I got to Dr. Lugae and there is an explosion that will kill you pretty much no matter what. I stopped there, but I would have also been stuck at the sealed cave where the doors do insta-kills.

But the real problem is that Cecil is so boring. All you can do is fight-fight-heal, and there really isn't any strategy. You can't even really use items for spells, because in FFIV you have to be able to equip the item, and Cecil can equip rods.

I've been doing a FFII (GBA) solo run, and that's going better, but I think I don't have the will power to finish any kind of solo run, because it often comes down to power-leveling. I think I'm more interested in doing one of the Zelda runs we've had on here, as that's more about skill than stats.

Ample Vigour
05-22-2008, 07:45 PM
BRUTALITY

Man, I forgot about all that nastiness. FFIV seems the most hostile to solo runs of all the FF games I've played. FFVI had broken weapons and the Magicite system and FFVII doesn't even pretend to fight back once you have Mime (IIRC, Ruby Weapon's a solo fight no matter what you do.) Props on getting as far as you did.

McClain
05-22-2008, 08:14 PM
Man, I forgot about all that nastiness. FFIV seems the most hostile to solo runs of all the FF games I've played. FFVI had broken weapons and the Magicite system and FFVII doesn't even pretend to fight back once you have Mime (IIRC, Ruby Weapon's a solo fight no matter what you do.) Props on getting as far as you did.

Thank you for the propers.

To really be able to solo a game, you need to be able to customize some. Otherwise it's really, really boring. And in the more story-driven games, it's sometime impossible to get past a place without a certain skill, or at least a meatshield.

I was thinking about creating a "weakest link" FFIV run. Basically, I would take votes on who was the shittiest player in each party throughout the game, and solo him/her until the party changed again. Leveling would be a total bitch, but it would be interesting to see if you could beat Mt. Ordeals with Palom (wait, was that the girl? I forget) or the Tower of Babil with Cid. Fabul war with just Edward. Lunar ruins with Rydia (or Edge. That's for the voters to choose). Stuff like that. But then again, I'd still have to allow for meatshields in certain areas. It's probably still be impossible to beat. Someone who's not me should try it. :)

I would think that III and V would make good solo runs because of the party system, but I don't have the skills to try that. Plus, truth be told, I always preferred the story RPGs over the character-tweak ones.