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View Full Version : Selection for Societal Sanity: MGS4, Act III & beyond


Parish
06-11-2008, 10:19 PM
Again, mark your spoilers! If you even think it might be a spoiler... mark it.

kungfukid
06-12-2008, 03:21 PM
So far, Act III is the best act in the game.

alexb
06-12-2008, 09:01 PM
Fuck. Shut up, game. I've always been very tolerant of Kojima's excesses, but this game's talkiness is just off the charts, even for him. The stuff with the B&B Squad is so completely moronic that thinking about it is actually hurting my enjoyment of the rest of the game. There's magical realism and then there's retarded. Kojima took a running leap over that line.

Now that I've seen what they're were hiding with those NDAs and restrictions on reviews, I think they really need to be called out about it further. The loading and the extreme length of the cinemas is unbelievable. We're in Xenosaga territory here, kids.

Maggie
06-12-2008, 09:21 PM
So far, Act III is the best act in the game.

Yes.

Luckily, a very long love affair with Syphon Filter has prepared me for this sort of thing. As frustrating as it MIGHT have been, it's far and away more fun and forgiving then, say, following Johnathan Phagan around Pharcom. Ugh.

Parish
06-12-2008, 09:37 PM
Don't worry, alexb, I fight the good fight in tomorrow's 1UP Show.

Maggie
06-12-2008, 10:14 PM
I kind of agree about the BB Corp. That's just silly. And I guess it was super important that they be beautiful? We wouldn't put up with this sort of thing from ugly people, apparently.

And yet Mantis got to do it... Which leads me to terrifying conclusions, since I will never admit my theory is flawed.

TheSL
06-12-2008, 10:44 PM
Anyone else knocking the B&B people out instead of killing them? I've been getting face camo of them after I beat them, but I didn't know if you missed out on that if you blow them up or something.

Maggie
06-12-2008, 11:14 PM
That's what I've been doing. It almost doesn't seem fair that I'm allowed basically to 'shoot from the hip' with the Mosin Nagant. It makes it much easier.

alexb
06-12-2008, 11:47 PM
No, what's unfair is that you can still do that in multiplayer, which gives you a point for the knock out, then you can run up and gank the victim for a one hit kill with the knife to get double points.

Abominable K
06-13-2008, 12:24 AM
I suck so much at aiming, that I've managed to waste all of my DP on ammo for the Raging Raven fight. Even worse, that fight took me the better part of an hour.

Tip for those about to fight her: use a Sniper Rifle. The damage is a million times better than with an Assault Rifle.

Tomm Guycot
06-13-2008, 12:26 AM
Tip for those about to fight her: tip!.

Or use the surface-to-air missile you should have found in South America. 4 - 5 hits and you can go home.

Abominable K
06-13-2008, 12:32 AM
When I tried missiles on her, she tended to just vernier out of the way. The only time I managed to hit her with one was when I was inside of the tower.

kungfukid
06-13-2008, 01:39 AM
As for the Beauties, I think I concur with everyone else that they are indeed over the top. They had to be beautiful to represent how war can turn even the most beautiful creatures into beasts, Drebin states this in act two. Of course, there is also the theory that Kojima just wanted a sneaky way to meet some models.

Regardless of their beauty or back story though, the fact the game touches upon the severe aspects of PTS is kinda interesting, though it was severely out of place in the tower.

alexb
06-13-2008, 02:00 AM
So I take it everyone enjoyed Big Momma's PowerPoint presentation on the Patriots, right?

Maggie
06-13-2008, 02:15 AM
So I take it everyone enjoyed Big Momma's PowerPoint presentation on the Patriots, right?

Yup. It's really disturbing that all those people you (and of course Big Boss) come to like over the course of MGS3 turn into such bastards. Even Paramedic. Go figure.

alexb
06-13-2008, 02:47 AM
Seriously. It's like, "Surprise! Everyone you thought was a good guy is an asshole, and all the assholes were actually good guys! Nah, actually, we're all assholes!"

kungfukid
06-13-2008, 04:20 AM
Actually, if you played Portable Ops, then you pretty much could guess who was an asshole and who wasn't. But still, loved that presentation.

TheSL
06-13-2008, 05:02 AM
That Major Zero thing kind of totally came out of left field for me. I totally called the "Big Boss is still alive!" and Eva was part of the founding Patriots thing when I was discussing the game with Calorie Mate, though.

Tomm Guycot
06-13-2008, 08:21 AM
Portable Ops made it pretty clear about Zero, though. Anyway, I actually really like that the entire cast of MGS3 is "evil," because it's one thing if Big Boss somehow "goes rogue" and becomes a villain, but it says something else entirely if Kojima's big message about "villains change with the times" is illustrated by EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER from that game essentially being bad.

Eirikr
06-13-2008, 10:33 AM
I mean, I beat it and all, but that part with following the resistance member took way too long. I don't know if it was because I was up until 5am playing it not, but it seemed like I was following one of them for at least 40 minutes. Then I would get spotted and have to do it over again. This continued until I actually found the place I had to go, but of course I had to follow the resistance guy in.

But all that frustration was soon forgotten as soon as I ran into Big Mama. That was some seriously poignant stuff. Loved it.

kungfukid
06-13-2008, 10:38 AM
I mean, I beat it and all, but that part with following the resistance member took way too long. I don't know if it was because I was up until 5am playing it not, but it seemed like I was following one of them for at least 40 minutes. Then I would get spotted and have to do it over again. This continued until I actually found the place I had to go, but of course I had to follow the resistance guy in.

But all that frustration was soon forgotten as soon as I ran into Big Mama. That was some seriously poignant stuff. Loved it.

No, you really were following that guy for forty minutes, remember? He kept getting caught and then when you "freed him" he would run all the back to his starting point.

TheSL
06-13-2008, 11:06 AM
Portable Ops made it pretty clear about The Big Cheese, though.

It really says something about the quality of PO when I don't remember even the important parts, huh? Its a shame its expansion didn't follow the console naming convention so it could have been MGS: POS.

SilentSnake
06-13-2008, 01:20 PM
Act III beginning give me a real Splinter Cell vibe. Being in a realistic town setting like this really reminds me of some of the locales in those games. I also like the whole blending in as a civilian aspect.

Parish
06-13-2008, 01:25 PM
I've been waiting for Act III (and the finale of Act II!) since I heard that part of MGS2 was going to be set in New York City. That turned out to be a total bust... but sneaking around Prague is awesome.

reibeatall
06-13-2008, 01:27 PM
Fuck. Shut up, game. I've always been very tolerant of Kojima's excesses, but this game's talkiness is just off the charts, even for him. The stuff with the B&B Squad is so completely moronic that thinking about it is actually hurting my enjoyment of the rest of the game. There's magical realism and then there's retarded. Kojima took a running leap over that line.


Didn't you enjoy the dream sequences in Lost Odyssey? At least these have SOMETHING to do with the story.

SilentSnake
06-13-2008, 01:33 PM
I've been waiting for Act III (and the finale of Act II!) since wackiness ensued.

Oh is that where it is? I must have missed that. All I knew is that it was Eastern Europe. I guess it doesn't make a difference, though, because that area is mostly consistent aestetically. I love it so far, but it is a pain when you lose the resistance member you were tracking because you were concentrating on shooting a soldier to clear a path. Luckily, I just ran into another one by chance.

Abominable K
06-13-2008, 01:37 PM
I'm disappointed that Major Zero turned out to be bad. I mean, I kind of guessed back when Snake Eater was out that he wasn't entirely on the level, but that was completely based on him being an old British guy with a scar. I was hoping Kojima would be more creative than that, but then MPO pretty much outed his role in the Patriots.

TheSL
06-13-2008, 01:39 PM
I love it so far, but it is a pain when you doodly do.

I actually slit the neck of the first one I encountered because he started shooting at me. Oops.

SilentSnake
06-13-2008, 01:50 PM
Well gee the guy I was following just ran at me like he saw me, so I booked it the other direction. Turns out he was just going to take a leak. I think this game has more toilet humor than the other three combined.

Calorie Mate
06-13-2008, 01:52 PM
Act III was sweet all the way through, except the part at the end where what should have been a 30 second shot of armed boats surrounding Liquid took like 10 minutes. That was the firss cinema that felt like it dragged to me. Also, I'm sad that the awesome dude from MGS3 turned into...that.

I like that my guess about who the Patriots were was correct, but my guess on Big Boss' motivations for the events of MG1 and 2 were wrong. Ah, well.

Anyone that hasn't gotten to Act 4 yet: it's AWESOME so far.


...oh, and yeah, easily the worst part about the game is Drebin's long speeches about the B&B Corps after you defeat each one. The concept of them in and of itself is ok, if a bit far-fetched, but I could do without their life story.

Parish
06-13-2008, 02:41 PM
Oh is that where it is? I must have missed that.
It's never stated explicitly, but I'm fairly positive that's supposed to be the setting. If you've finished Act III, check out this photo (http://www.richard-seaman.com/Travel/CzechRepublic/Highlights/VltavaRiverAtPrague.jpg) and let me know if it seems familiar.

alexb
06-13-2008, 03:28 PM
Code name: Eagle

By the way, of course it's Prague. It was a major center for spy activity during the Cold War, for both sides. Kojima obviously knew that and threw in a cool but overlong old school noir spy sequence.

reibeatall
06-13-2008, 06:10 PM
Re: The end of Act 4

Hoooooooollllllllllyyyyyyyyyy crap.

alexb
06-13-2008, 07:13 PM
For those of you who've finished the game:
I wonder why they never played the original MGS theme? We got the one from MGS3, but I always considered that Big Boss's theme while the MGS series theme was Snake's. Does it have something to do with that very similar Russian music Kojima was shown in that European interview?

reibeatall
06-13-2008, 07:54 PM
Act 5 is brutal, guys.

mike
06-13-2008, 08:50 PM
For those of you who've finished the game:
I wonder why they never something'd the something.

I didn't really notice until Act 5, when that trumpet motif started showing up all over the place that sounded kind of like it was going to turn into Tappy's MGS theme, but never did. They also muted the ambient music in the Act IV intro sequence, which may have quoted the Tappy theme at some point, but they kept the alert phase music intact, which only has the rhythmic pizzicato string part of the theme that bears no relation to the Russian guy's composition, so I'm guessing you're right about their reasoning.

As for myself, I kept waiting for an instrumental bridge from Snake Eater to underscore Big Mama's dramatic moments in Prague. I also felt the soundtrack was very light on the subdued and jazzy Norihiko Hibino tracks and heavy on the Hollywood spy thriller cues, but these are all just minor disappointments. The score still had plenty of great moments -- Act III's in-game music worked really well for me in particular, at least until it took me another 45 minutes to figure out how to advance. Besides, the game has an abundance of fanservice and series touchstones as it is.

alexb
06-13-2008, 09:15 PM
Yeah, but imagine an Indiana Jones or Star Wars that never played the series theme. It's missing something.

SilentSnake
06-14-2008, 06:18 PM
Wow. What's there is cool, but there isn't a whole lot of gameplay in act III. At least compared to acts I and II. And as for Raging Raven, I liked it, but not as much as Laughing Octopus. I kind of didn't figure out the battle exactly, just ran around randomly until she stood still then blasted her with rocket launchers. The motorcycle chase was cool, but I think I prefer the MGS3 one.

pher
06-14-2008, 06:51 PM
I must say that the Rex vs. Ray fight has to be the coolest moment of the game so far - at least in terms of sheer fanservice. I just started Act 5.

SilentSnake
06-14-2008, 11:11 PM
Act III really got bogged down with cutscenes, but Act IV was AWESOME! Plenty of gameplay as well as not too many cutscenes. As well, Crying Wolf was a great boss fight. I utilized a good number of strategies and loved the sniping of it. I couldn't quite get the hang of the downwind thing, but it was a worthy boss regardless. I was very excited to fight Vamp at the end as well, though it seemed a bit easy because I was playing it straight to kill normally. I should've known better by now. It took me a while to realize what to do, but I finally got it done. The split-screen battle was actually incredibly innovative if I do say so myself, as you are actually taking part in a battle while another one is taking place. It was slightly distracting, but it gave the battle a nice urgency and place. Rex vs. Ray = METAL GEAR ARMORED CORE AWESOMENESS.

Adrenaline
06-14-2008, 11:14 PM
The flashback MGS1 gameplay at the beginning of Act 4 is magnificent. I liked tailing the guy in Act 3, I just thought it was clumsy how you clear a path for him, yet if he sees you helping he runs away. Also, I didn't time it, but that was a LOOOONG block of cinemas between defeating Raging Raven and landing on Shadow Moses.

So five acts I guess? That's a good length. Two more to go.

Alixsar
06-15-2008, 03:31 AM
The [fight with Liquid] has made one thing painful clear to me.

I never want to play a fighting game that's made by Hideo Kojima.

Edit: Of course, right after I say that I go back to my game and get through that fight with no problems. Also, apparently I'm an "Eagle" and I never used any special items. What the hell are special items, then? Well, whatever. I would go on about the game but playing MGS4 non-stop over the past few days has left me incredibly tired...so it can wait.

SilentSnake
06-15-2008, 09:53 AM
Act 5 is brutal, guys.

alexb
06-15-2008, 11:33 AM
It's not that bad. Remember that this is a stealth game and you'll have a much easier time.

Parish
06-15-2008, 12:58 PM
I dunno, even stealthing it I had a stupidly hard time getting through the single normal gameplay screen of Act 5. The bad guys seemed to spawn infinitely even without an alert raised, with new FROGs hopping out if you took out the patrolling ones, which runs counter to the mechanics of every other game in the series. Metal Gear is always at its worst when its gameplay forgets to be internally consistent.

alexb
06-15-2008, 01:04 PM
Yeah, the alert is endless if you're spotted. You'll fight until you die. I tried that three times, and then I put on the face camo, crawled my way to the door, and then ran over and opened it while all the moo cows were looking the other way. By the way, is it ever explained why they shit green goo?

mike
06-15-2008, 01:31 PM
Yeah, the alert is endless if you're spotted. You'll fight until you die.

This isn't true; I was eventually able to wait out an alert in the corridor to the right of door at the end. There are so many corridors and catwalks full of soldiers, though, that it's hard to find a spot where no one will see you, and harder to hide a tranqed body.

Brickroad
06-15-2008, 01:41 PM
That part pissed me off. I hammered away at it for well over an hour until I just said fuck it, equipped my rations and made a mad dash for the door. When that actually worked I was even more pissed because, you know, Metal Gear isn't supposed to work like that.

onimaruxlr
06-15-2008, 02:22 PM
I took sadistic pleasure from camping in the corridor after getting through the door and just blowing away the Gekkos (which eventually stopped respawning) and the Frogs (which didn't) from my safe hidey hall until my health had fully recovered

Rosencrantz
06-15-2008, 02:24 PM
I didn't have too much trouble at that part. The first time I fucked up immediately, but the second time around I just crawled through most of it (99% camo, yes please) while tranquilizing the FROGS. At the end, where the Gekkos were at, I just charged up my railgun and blasted their heads.

Brickroad
06-15-2008, 02:39 PM
I didn't have too much trouble at that part. The first time I fucked up immediately, but the second time around I just crawled through most of it (99% camo, yes please) while tranquilizing the FROGS. At the end, where the Gekkos were at, I just charged up my railgun and blasted their heads.

This was my plan too, but I could never quite pull it off even with 99% camo.

alexb
06-15-2008, 03:07 PM
Kojima missed a chance for circularity by not making that Fortune's railgun.

SilentSnake
06-15-2008, 03:34 PM
I made it halfway stealthily by climbing high up and tranquing enemies but got spotted by the big things and had to take out three or four before I got an opening to open the door. It's a good thing I hadn't been using my noodles until now.

Eusis
06-15-2008, 04:45 PM
Yeah, first part of Act 5 wound up pissing me off. I tried to play somewhat normally at first, stealthily taking enemies out, but in the end I got caught, tried to rush to the end, and died. I thought the Gekkos only spawned if you were caught, but I saw I was wrong the second time through! I tried to make it through but wound up being seen, and just forced my way through. Killed off a Gekko or three then rushed through the door and finally cleared that stupid part.

Feels like the game was spiting me for being disappointed that there were no human opponents to sneak around in Act 4, mostly just those drones that endlessly respawned and some Gekko. No, I get human enemies but a perpetual Caution and neverending Alert if I'm caught! With endlessly respawning soldiers AND Gekko!

With all that said, Act 4 did a great job in showing how far ahead the PS3 is compared to the PS1. Bundling together separate areas from MGS into single giant ones, making them look way better than ever, AND adding more space to them is really mindblowing when you stop to think about it, especially with the area where you fought Crying Wolf.

alexb
06-15-2008, 04:52 PM
Yeah, I liked how the first two floors or so of the comm towers and the surrounding area had been snowed under. It was interesting that you could practically climb out of the sniper alley where Meryl was shot. Did you find the crashed Hind D?

Eusis
06-15-2008, 05:07 PM
I spotted the Hind D, but didn't notice the sniping alley. Man, there's probably going to be a lot of new little things to find in a replay.

Tomm Guycot
06-15-2008, 05:11 PM
Finding the Hind D was one of the highlights of the game for me.

Wolf was a really tough boss fight for me because she insta-killed me right at the start... and I couldn't get a handle on what I was "supposed" to be doing, or how I was supposed to react to the boss (ask Rei, I was IMing him at the time).

I did some damage and was surviving but was gonna have to go to dinner soon and really didn't want to repeat the early stages of the fight (and I'd just killed the last of the damn Frogs)... and oh look here's the wrecked chopper from MGS.

It was a nice reminder of the fact I've always gotten through these games before, and Wolf wasn't anything I couldn't overcome.

Shortly after, I discovered my strategy for The End would work. Get an explosive weapon and just track that bitch by her footprints - shooting her as soon as she stopped.

Speaking of things to find...

The credits mention both "The Voice of God" and Kojima's first game, Penguin Adventure... any idea where these are?

reibeatall
06-15-2008, 05:14 PM
A Hind D?! What was a Russian Gunship doing there?

onimaruxlr
06-15-2008, 05:15 PM
The opening to Act V is TOTALLY brutal, but at the same time I found it pretty engaging, trying to find the right balance of stealth and aggression. Ultimately I ended up sneaking for about a third of the way, running for my life for a third of it, and then just shooting everything that moved (meaning the Gekkos, with the rail gun) for the final stretch until there was a long enough lull in respawns to open the door

Sapper Gopher
06-15-2008, 05:55 PM
It's never stated explicitly, but I'm fairly positive that's supposed to be the setting.

The credits also show that they sent location scouts to Morocco, Peru, and Czech, which must not be spoken of in game, less Kojima earn the ire of local tourist officials. "Snake, she's in South America." That narrows that down!

SilentSnake
06-15-2008, 06:20 PM
So Big Boss magically appears at the end and explains everything. Uh...really? That kinda seems a bit too convinient, even for Kojima. I appreciate that he wanted to tie up loose ends, but that was kinda a clumsy way to do it. I didn't mind the super long cutscene at the end. I knew the official game was over, so it really didn't get in the way for me. The only time I remember cutscenes getting in the way was Act III, but it was pretty okay for the rest of the time. I think I like the cohesion of MGS3 better, but this game was amazingly awesome too. I can't wait to play it again.

EDIT: So I apparently got the title of Frog for rolling forward a bunch. I also got Hyena for gathering items, pig for taking a lot of health items, and leopard for rarely killing but being frequently being spotted and killed.

Adrenaline
06-16-2008, 01:13 AM
EDIT: So I apparently got the title of Cool Guy for being so rad. I also got Herpes.

I also got Hyena, but got Eagle for lots of headshots, Inchworm for crawling a lot, and Jaguar for lots of kills and getting spotted a lot but not killed.

For those of you who've finished the game:
QUESTIONS

Wasn't the guy you tailed in Act 3 humming it? And even if they never played the whole thing, there were definitely pieces here and there.

Brickroad
06-16-2008, 07:14 AM
I was totally expecting I'd have to fire the last shot myself when Snake was eating his gun, the way you have to do it to The Boss in MGS3.

That would have been the perfect ending right there. Not that they way they did it wasn't pretty perfect in its own way. Hokey and kind of retcon-y, okay, but perfect enough I guess.

TheSL
06-16-2008, 07:27 AM
That would have been the perfect ending right there. Not that they way they did it wasn't pretty perfect in its own way. Hokey and kind of retcon-y, okay, but perfect enough I guess.
Questions asked moved to the story thread.

Brickroad
06-16-2008, 07:33 AM
stuff

I didn't play Metal Gear or Metal Gear 2, so I don't actually know anything about Big Boss except for some vague awareness that he was in Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2.

TheSL
06-16-2008, 08:11 AM
Does anyone know if Psycho Mantis can read PS1 memory cards if you have them hooked up with that adapter thing? He seemed awful happy when he was able to move my dual shock 3, but it still showed an image of the old PS1 controller when he did.

SilentSnake
06-16-2008, 08:17 AM
He says you upgraded hardware as the reason, so I don't think it matters. The system was accessing the PS3 memory at the time, so it didn't work. I guess? It's all just supposed to be silliness anyways, so I can't begin to put logic to it.

Brickroad
06-16-2008, 08:19 AM
Does anyone know if blah blah?

Well, I had my PS2 card in my virtual slot, which had MGS2/3 saves on it, and my Suikoden PS1 card in the other slot, and he saw neither. Also he was pissed that he couldn't move my Sixaxis.

I'd complain that that entire scene essentially put the game on hold for some fanwank, but then I'd have to just hate the whole game, and I don't want to do that. =)

SilentSnake
06-16-2008, 08:23 AM
I would agree with this, which is disappointing because most of the other fanwank fit into the game without getting in the way. (unless you count Mr. and Mrs. Smith, which was funny for the wrong reasons)

Brickroad
06-16-2008, 08:26 AM
I would agree with this, which is disappointing because most of the other fanwank fit into the game without getting in the way. (unless you count a scene)

I didn't see that scene because I gouged out my eyes right when it started.

TheSL
06-16-2008, 08:29 AM
Yeah, I also have to agree that that was the most unnecessary scene in pretty much the whole series.

Calorie Mate
06-16-2008, 09:16 AM
Yeah, I also have to agree that that was the most unnecessary scene in pretty much the whole series.

Yeah, I'm going to go with that, too. Did anyone like it?


Also, regarding the MGS theme: the first few bars play whenever you die during Act 4 (just like dying in MGS1), if that helps.

SilentSnake
06-16-2008, 09:28 AM
Actually, I'm seeing some people say that that is their favorite scene in the game over at some other boards. *shrugs* I guess some people just like crap like that.

ShakeWell
06-16-2008, 10:16 AM
I have little to add to this, but I'll say this... This game is the reason I bought a PS3, and it was so worth it.

Also, following the resistance member through the streets was goddamn amazing.

SilentSnake
06-16-2008, 10:23 AM
I will echo this, but...I still think that MGS3 was better. I think it was the consistent and facinating setting in the end. The varied settings of MGS4 were very good, but the jungle of MGS3 was so perfectly realized. The feeling I got from that can't be matched. And the story wasn't as burdened by the past. But MGS4 is still pretty great.

Brickroad
06-16-2008, 10:26 AM
I feel like MGS4 is the weakest in the series, but still more than justifies my PS3 purchase.

Like, I thought I was going to be able to resist that trilogy collection thing, but it's going to be super hard to actually stick with that mindset (especially considering I don't own a copy of the original MGS).

O..O~
06-16-2008, 10:51 AM
God, the final battle was fun but it got totally killed for me when big boss reveals that ocelot had just been hyptonized into thinking he was liquid. It is like the game had really ran out of villians to throw at you. Also, do all the weapons including the boss weapons (the psycho mantis doll specifically) carry over the second playthrough? I was kind of sad that I didn't get to have fun with the final boss weapon at ALL.

Adrenaline
06-16-2008, 11:02 AM
Also, do all the weapons including the boss weapons carry over the second playthrough? I was kind of sad that I didn't get to have fun with the final boss weapon at ALL.

Yes, like the game says after you beat it, you get everything back in the scene where you get the Mk. II and Solid Eye.

SilentSnake
06-16-2008, 11:11 AM
Does that table of acquired titles only apply to a single save? I would like to try to find them all, but if they only apply while playing one difficulty level save, then it seems like a pain, as I would also like to move on to higher difficulties.

TheSL
06-16-2008, 11:19 AM
Does that table of acquired titles only apply to a single save? I would like to try to find them all, but if they only apply while playing one difficulty level save, then it seems like a pain, as I would also like to move on to higher difficulties.

Continuing your cleared save file allows you to change the difficulty, same as always.

SilentSnake
06-16-2008, 11:21 AM
Doh! I don't know how I missed this all these years. But this is cool. It seemed needlessly disjointed the way I thought it was in my head.

Adrenaline
06-16-2008, 11:24 AM
I'm pretty sure other games require you to keep the same difficulty when doing a replay.

TheSL
06-16-2008, 11:28 AM
I know MGS2 didn't because I collected pretty much all of the dog tags on a single save file and they were different for each difficulty level. You do have to clear a save before you can switch, but there's nothing keeping you from switching between rounds.

Adrenaline
06-16-2008, 11:33 AM
I mean other games in general, not Metal Gear. He could have been thinking of those.

Tomm Guycot
06-16-2008, 11:41 AM
I liked the scene you are all referring to hating.

O..O~
06-16-2008, 12:03 PM
I'm still lost, people are so vague on this board about everything so explain. Which scene is everyone hating? The one I described or the scene involving johnny and meryl?

SilentSnake
06-16-2008, 12:18 PM
So what I'm thinking about doing for my next playthrough is exactly the opposite of what my titles were. Instead of not killing very many people, I'm going to kill as many as I can. Instead of getting caught a lot, I'm going to try to have as few alert phases as possible. Instead of using a lot of healing items, I will try to not use any. I'm going to try to experiment with different play styes like this to see if the game plays any differently the second time.

kungfukid
06-16-2008, 12:59 PM
You can replay it on any difficulty. And the scene everyone is hating is the one with Johnny and Meryl... god that was a waste of ten minutes.

Rosencrantz
06-16-2008, 01:22 PM
You can replay it on any difficulty. And the scene everyone is hating is the one with Johnny and Meryl... god that was a waste of ten minutes.

I really enjoyed it at the beginning - it made me laugh (in the way it was supposed to) and I thought it was cute that poor ol' Johnny developed a crush on Meryl despite how she knocked him out and stole his clothes. However, like most scenes in the game, it went on way, way too long.

I think the only scene that I actually wanted to EXTEND was EVA's Patriots 101 class. I love insane conspiracy stuff, and I love the cast of MGS3, so I could have listened to that for hours.

kungfukid
06-16-2008, 02:13 PM
I really enjoyed it at the beginning - it made me laugh (in the way it was supposed to) and I thought it was cute that poor ol' Johnny developed a crush on Meryl despite how she knocked him out and stole his clothes. However, like most scenes in the game, it went on way, way too long.

I think the only scene that I actually wanted to EXTEND was EVA's Patriots 101 class. I love insane conspiracy stuff, and I love the cast of MGS3, so I could have listened to that for hours.

I think the only thing that made me laugh at the whole Meryl and Johnny thing was that Johnny looks an awfully lot like young Snake.

For those about to go through the game killing lots of people, here's an Easter Egg for ya: Flashback to Liquid telling Snake he enjoys all the killing, then Snake throws up!

Niku
06-16-2008, 04:24 PM
FUN SECRET EASTER EGG FOR ACT 3:

Pay close attention to the ambient noise and to your six while tailing the resistance member.

Jakanden
06-16-2008, 08:24 PM
I just finished Act IV and holy shit; Raiden is now my favorite character in the game.

Although Jeremy was complaining on the 1up show about it hammering you with nostalgia, I actually loved it. Act IV is quite possibly one of my favorite sections of any MGS period. When you got to the helipad and it started playing the ending theme for MGS1, I just stood there and listened.

As mentioned, there are so many cool easter eggs in there. Did anyone else take a photo of the Policenauts poster? There is an image of Kojima that appears when you do. I am sure there are other ghosts when you do this to certain things, but this is the first one I saw.

Post any other easter egg things you find as I am going to be doing a second play through almost immediately.

SilentSnake
06-16-2008, 08:27 PM
Yeah the ghost hunting was a MGS1 thing as well. It was one of the last secrets you could find in the game, as it was quite secret at the time.

O..O~
06-16-2008, 09:25 PM
I am going to try and unlock the altaircamo/costume on my second playthrough. For those wondering how to unlock it, heres how: "Must defeat 50 enemies with CQC holds and 50 enemies with knife kill/stuns"

Jakanden
06-16-2008, 10:00 PM
I tried using the Psycho Mantis trick on Screaming Mantis and yeah...not a smart idea. I have used more Rations in Act V than the rest of the game put together. This is definitely a brutal act as mentioned earlier.

Regarding the Psycho Mantis thing everyone seems to hate; count me in the love it category. I am also a fan of Johnny now that I know what is going on with him and saw he wasn't a complete loser.

kungfukid
06-16-2008, 10:48 PM
The Psycho/Screaming Mantis fight was my favorite fight of the entire game. So much nostalgia in that one fight alone and the fact that it basically gives away the secret behind Liquid/Ocelot.

Add to Queue's VsRobot
06-16-2008, 10:48 PM
Just finished my second playthrough -- I was awarded the title of Pigeon (no kills), as well as Hyena(pick up >400 items )and Scorpion few kills, alerts, and continues.

I also picked up two secret items The Bandana, which when equipped gives you unlimited ammo. You get it by completing the game with zero kills. I also collected all five in-game figurines and got the Solar Gun from Boktai. Can't wait to play with that! I also have every face camo except for one, and I'll probably never get that last one..

For my third playthrough, I want to try a zero-alert run.

reibeatall
06-16-2008, 10:52 PM
Some stuff


What difficulty did you play the no-kill game on?

Add to Queue's VsRobot
06-16-2008, 10:59 PM
What difficulty did you play the game on?


Normal (US and Europe). My first run was Normal (Japan). I forget their specific names. I'm thinking of dropping all the way down to easy for my no-alert run -- I want that bonus item!

The toughest part of the no-kill run is Act II (when you are manning the turret for Drebin. Early on their are mechs that kind of look like Gekkos, but are actually manned and if you shoot them they count as kills! The motorcycle run was also tough, I had to keep switching back and forth from lethal and nonlethal weaponry depending on the section.).

Alixsar
06-17-2008, 12:37 AM
That doesn't even seem like it'd be possible. A no kill playthrough? Sheer madness, I say.

Anyway, my schedule's been a bit crazy so I haven't had any time to say anything about this game until now. MGS4 is a great way to "end" the MGS series. I don't really think I need to get into why that is. But there's a few things that bother me oh-so-slightly about it:

1) Acts III - V. They were all pretty fun, but there's no real "legit" MGS-style gameplay in those sections. Act III has you following a guy, followed by a chase and a boss fight. Act IV has you fighting robots, a boss, and then more robots. And Act V has one room, and then a string of boss fights (also, I don't understand why everyone was saying that Act V was hard...except for that one room it's easy as hell). I appreciate that they were trying to mix up the typical MGS format a bit, but while avoiding robots and hiding in alleys is fun, it's not as fun as hiding from guards. In other words, gameplay wise the first two sections of the game were my favorite. They took the old MGS-style gameplay and incorporated a lot of new elements and a lot of choice and variety. And then this was all abandoned in favor of robots and bosses. It was all still fun, but when you take the story away and look at just the gameplay, I feel that MGS4 peaked early and that's a bit of a bummer.

2) How every single crazy thing that ever happened in a MGS game was:

a) because of nanomachines. I understand that they're important but they can apparently cure cancer, eliminate death, possess corpses, knock people out, make people go insane, keep people from going insane...the list goes on. It just seemed like every 10 seconds something was being explained by "the nanomachines in *insert someone's name*'s body...".

or

b) the plan all along, Snake!!! Again, it seemed like every time a character was cornered and forced to explain themselves, they never seemed to be upset because OMGITWASTHEPLANALLALONGPLOTTWIST.

3) Big Boss, Ocelot, Liquid...everyone is given a legitimate reason for what they did. Except Zero. Zero is made into the series' ultimate antagonist, and all of the previous antagonists are given justification for their actions. MGS4 turned all of the bad guys into good (or at least justifiably bad) guys and made a previously good guy into a villian. It all happened really suddenly, and it just felt a little bizarre.

4) It took me 20 hours to beat, and probably only 1/2 of that was spent actually playing. But I guess that's sort of a necessary evil, given how convoluted MGS' story is. But still...man, there was a LOT of talking.

I know this might sound weird after saying all that, but I still really enjoyed the game. It was basically everything I could've ever wanted out of the "final" MGS game. Even if the resolution wasn't exactly the way I wanted it, every loose end was tied up, it looked beautiful, and it was fun whenever I was playing it.

But I'm a little scared for the future of Metal Gear. Ever since early on in the game, I had this deep fear that they might try to make Johnny into a legitimately likable character. My fears were confirmed in Act III when he took his mask off and you saw that he had cool hair (they don't give cool hair to characters they don't want people to like). And then in Act V he had that scene with Meryl where he killed roughly 30,000 soldiers. And even when he was being wacky early on, he would still occasionally show that he does have some useful skills. Am I the only one who's worried that MGS5 will be about the wacky adventures of Johnny and Meryl (or possibly their child)? Raiden is the obvious choice for a main character in MGS5, but how the hell do you build a MGS game around a ninja who can sword fight with his feet and take down Gekkos by himself? You can't without seriously altering the series...but you could make a game about a ne'er do well Special Forces member with cool hair and shades.

I'm scared.

SpoonyGundam
06-17-2008, 01:31 AM
Just finished a no-kill/no-alert run on Solid Normal. Going for Altair next to test the waters for The Boss Extreme, then I am off to try and get a Big Boss rating. Can I do it? Who knows! The normal run took a bit over six and a half hours, so I'm going to have to find somewhere to shave quite a bit of time off for that.

Maggie
06-17-2008, 02:20 AM
I got thirteen kills my second playthrough. The game is amazingly short without the cutscenes and it's SUCH a bummer to see Act 2 go. I mean, 3 is fun, but kind of tedious the second time through and I love the whole "befriend the militia, turn the tide of battle" thing.

And I would've liked to have heard more about Zero/Para-Medic/Sigint become "evil." I'm really fascinated by stories that do this, but I really like to hear WHY they become the way they did. The small steps they took that slowly add up.

SilentSnake
06-17-2008, 05:51 AM
And I would've liked to have heard more about Zero/Para-Medic/Sigint become "evil." I'm really fascinated by stories that do this, but I really like to hear WHY they become the way they did. The small steps they took that slowly add up.

Don't worry. It'll happen. Portable Ops 2. You know it's coming.

Adrenaline
06-17-2008, 06:08 AM
But I'm a little scared for the future of Metal Gear. Ever since early on in the game, I had this deep fear that they might try to make Johnny into a legitimately likable character. My fears were confirmed in Act III when he took his mask off and you saw that he had cool hair (they don't give cool hair to characters they don't want people to like). And then in Act V he had that scene with Meryl where he killed roughly 30,000 soldiers. And even when he was being wacky early on, he would still occasionally show that he does have some useful skills. Am I the only one who's worried that MGS5 will be about the wacky adventures of Johnny and Meryl (or possibly their child)? Raiden is the obvious choice for a main character in MGS5, but how the hell do you build a MGS game around a ninja who can sword fight with his feet and take down Gekkos by himself? You can't without seriously altering the series...but you could make a game about a ne'er do well Special Forces member with cool hair and shades.

I'm scared.

That's really your concern? I figured he'd be done fighting. I won't be surprised if the next game really has nothing to do with existing characters and is just a lot of stuff like the first two acts.

TheSL
06-17-2008, 06:34 AM
I tried to start a no-kill run last night on Hard, but if all you get for that is the bandana there is really no point- its available for purchase in Drebin's shop the second time through.

What figurines was VsRobot talking about above? I didn't see anything like that on my first run.

Maggie
06-17-2008, 06:54 AM
As near as I can tell, you can only get the figurines during the fights with the "beauties" when they're outside of their suits. They're scattered around the boss area.

SilentSnake
06-17-2008, 06:57 AM
I heard you can find one by the elevator if you no-kill the Rat Patrol fight. And you have to no-kill the beats in their first form for the dolls to appear I heard.

TheSL
06-17-2008, 07:11 AM
And you have to no-kill the beats in their first form for the dolls to appear I heard.

Damn it, I did that the first time through the game. :(

Matchstick
06-17-2008, 07:35 AM
I appreciate that they were trying to mix up the typical MGS format a bit, but while avoiding robots and hiding in alleys is fun, it's not as fun as hiding from guards.

I just don't get this. I don't see how sneaking through Shadow Moses with robots everywhere is any different than sneaking around with patrolling guards everywhere. They have all the same abilities and act pretty much the same regardless of whether they're animate or inanimate. In fact, I was more worried about running afoul of the Gekkos because it was a lot easier putting a couple of bullets in the head of a Frog than facing those things.

TheSL
06-17-2008, 07:42 AM
I think a lot of the difference is that with guards its kind of a hide & seek type game, whereas with the robots it was more "oh, there he is! Summon the million robots from every nook and cranny to chase him!" Personally I really enjoyed that section still, but I think it was more pure nostalgia by that point.

Brickroad
06-17-2008, 07:51 AM
Agreed, the Shadow Moses section would have worked a lot better with a skeleton crew of human guards rather than robots.

I mean, you end up fighting some human guards alon with Crying Wolf out on the snowfield, so it's not like the entire base was unmanned.

reibeatall
06-17-2008, 07:52 AM
Alixar summed up everything I've ever wanted to say about this game way better than I ever could.

Adrenaline
06-17-2008, 08:17 AM
I just don't get this. I don't see how sneaking through Shadow Moses with robots everywhere is any different than sneaking around with patrolling guards everywhere. They have all the same abilities and act pretty much the same regardless of whether they're animate or inanimate. In fact, I was more worried about running afoul of the Gekkos because it was a lot easier putting a couple of bullets in the head of a Frog than facing those things.

It's way more fun to CQC guys than shoot robots.

Willm
06-17-2008, 09:14 AM
Yeah, you receive the figuresfor taking out the BB girls via non-lethal means. You can only collect them during the "Beauty" stage of the fight. There is also one for getting through the part with the FROGs and the RAT Patrol without killing anyone (the figure is in the underground garage before you go back up to the surface.)

If you collect all 5 then you get the Solar Gun from the Boktai games for the next playthrough. It's actually pretty fun to mess around with, but not as much as the emotion bullets. Nothing beats making a PMC fall down crying.

As for Act IV, I thought the Gekkos stomping around Shadow Moses was cool, but I absolutely hate the Dwarf Gekkos. I really wish they wouldn't have been in the game. AT ALL. I didn't think their design fit into the game (they look like a robotic shadow from Persona 3!) and they were more annoying than difficult. I was really hoping to fight PMCs in blizzard conditions. At least the Crying Wolf fight was great...it was probably my favorite in MGS4.

Act V was easily my least-favorite part of the game. I was hoping for a massive assault on Outer Haven that would result in the huge battles featured in Acts I and II. Instead, there's one area, followed by a (admittedly cool) boss fight, a ton of cutscenes, a disappointing final boss, and the end. The only part of Act V I really enjoyed was having to crawl through the microwave hallway. I thoguht it was a great culmination of the torture Snake's aged body underwent throughout the game, and really made you feel for the guy.

Maggie
06-17-2008, 09:33 AM
I'm surprised so many people enjoyed Screaming Mantis. I thought it was pretty generic. The only fun I had was messing around with the old ways of tricking Psycho Mantis and hearing the codec calls.

My favorite boss fight, though, is definitely Rex Vs. Ray. That was awesome and exceeded my expectations. I was geeking out the whole time.

alexb
06-17-2008, 09:35 AM
Yeah, but in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, if the microwaves are cooking his armored suit off his body, why isn't his face being reduced to a mass of blisters? Why isn't his hair on fire?

Brickroad
06-17-2008, 09:38 AM
I'm surprised so many people enjoyed Screaming Mantis. I thought it was pretty generic. The only fun I had was messing around with the old ways of tricking Psycho Mantis and hearing the codec calls.

Ditto. Actually I felt like all the bosses were pretty weak (REX vs. RAY aside). Aside from Crying Wolf you pretty much just wait for an opening, fire your gun until the boss drops (and thus becomes temporarily invincible), then run around until you get another opening.

I really think the game suffers from not having a good sniper duel in it. Both Sniper Wolf fights, The End, and even escorting Emma across the bridge in MGS2 were all personal favorites. I guess they figured there's no way they could ever possibly top The End, so why bother trying? I think Act 3 would have been the perfect place to at least give it a shot. Rooftop sniper duel in a dark and rainy, urban environment? Would've been pretty boss.

Calorie Mate
06-17-2008, 09:40 AM
One of the best things about Act IV is that if you stand there and listen to the voice overs from the past, you get a bonus 1000 DP for each one you listen to all the way through.


Anyway, it's mostly pure nostalgia for me, but I really liked Act IV. Most of the areas from MGS1 being abandoned had a really somber vibe to it. And the swarm of little robots were new and different and terrifying for the series, and the Gekko were just larger guards that you couldn't shoot in the head and then crawl past. Overall, I really liked it.

Alixsar
06-17-2008, 09:44 AM
That's really your concern? I figured he'd be done fighting. I won't be surprised if the next game really has nothing to do with existing characters and is just a lot of stuff like the first two acts.

Well I would assume that gameplay wise, the next one is like Acts I/II. But you can't really do that with Raiden anymore now that he's Gray Fox v 2.0, so you'd need a new character. So it's entirely possible that we could see all new characters. But I'm wondering if MGS4 was really just a way to set up making Johnny and/or Meryl and/or their kid the star of the next one. But who knows?

I just don't get this. I don't see how sneaking through Shadow Moses with robots everywhere is any different than sneaking around with patrolling guards everywhere. They have all the same abilities and act pretty much the same regardless of whether they're animate or inanimate. In fact, I was more worried about running afoul of the Gekkos because it was a lot easier putting a couple of bullets in the head of a Frog than facing those things.

It's way more fun to CQC guys than shoot robots.

Exactly. Especially when they're crazy jumping cow robots.

Also, I thought of something else that bothered me. The bosses. Is it just me or were MGS4's bosses the easiest MGS bosses ever? I think it has something to do with the change from a Zelda-style set of bosses to a Mega Man-style set of bosses. For example, in the older games, each boss would have a handful of weaknesses (which typically revolved a recently acquired weapon(s), like in Zelda games). This resulted in a very focused experience. Each boss had specific attacks that needed to be dodged, and certain weaknesses to be exploited. But in MGS4, because of the way weapons are acquired, there's no real specific way to take down each boss (except for Mantis and for using that one attack against Vamp). Instead, you get a new power up after each battle like Mega Man. Each boss can be taken down by just standing around and waiting for them to attack, and then shooting them. It's a bit disappointing.

On the positive side of things, this means that I can jokingly say "You got Elec Beam!" every time I beat Crying Wolf, and it won't be total nonsense.

Calorie Mate
06-17-2008, 09:46 AM
I'm surprised so many people enjoyed Screaming Mantis. I thought it was pretty generic. The only fun I had was messing around with the old ways of tricking Psycho Mantis and hearing the codec calls.

Yeah, I felt Mantis was kind of generic, too. It was definitely one of the "this will make the fanboys happy" moments of the game.

I'm not the only one who abused the Triangle attacks in the Rex vs. Ray fight, right? Seeing Rex bite Ray in the neck and fire its laser was totally great.

Matchstick
06-17-2008, 09:50 AM
It's way more fun to CQC guys than shoot robots.

"You're doing it wrong." ;)

TheSL
06-17-2008, 09:53 AM
I'm not the only one who wished he could be Johnny Sasaki, right?

I tried to fight "fairly" at first, but I lost really quickly. Abusing the triangle attacks made it stupidly easy.

Matchstick
06-17-2008, 09:56 AM
I tried to fight "fairly" at first, but I lost really quickly. Abusing the triangle attacks made it stupidly easy.

I never used triangle and I found it stupidly easy anyway.

Alixsar
06-17-2008, 09:58 AM
I used Triangle once, and the rest of the time I used nothing but the lock-on missiles and interrupted all of it's attacks. Pretty easy.

SpoonyGundam
06-17-2008, 10:01 AM
I used the triangle attacks a lot this last game and didn't even get hit. It wasn't much different the first time either. It's surprising how laughably easy Ray is, especially considering how they spent the first hour of MGS2 telling you how badly it'd stomp Rex into the ground.

And isn't Crying Wolf the sniper fight in this game? That's how I've been playing it, at least.

Brickroad
06-17-2008, 10:04 AM
And isn't Otacon's hot mom the sniper fight in this game? That's how I've been playing it, at least.

Considering most of that boss's attacks involve it physically rushing you, um, no. I mean, I used a sniper rifle to kill it, but I could have used just about anything. (I used a sniper rifle to kill just about all the bosses though.)

Still one of the better bosses in the game, though.

TheSL
06-17-2008, 10:08 AM
Yeah, I don't care how much it fits with the theme, but it doesn't make any damn sense how someone riding in a mostly destroyed (if MGS1's ending is any indication) Rex with no pilot training could beat someone in the superior Ray model with both VR training and years of experience piloting it.

Oh, and the only boss I didn't snipe to death was Laughing Octopus.

SpoonyGundam
06-17-2008, 10:10 AM
Seriously? She rushed me, like, twice. I had to search off in the distance with one of the various rifles most of the fight.

Willm
06-17-2008, 10:16 AM
Yeah, I don't care how much it fits with the theme, but it doesn't make any damn sense how someone riding in a mostly destroyed (if MGS1's ending is any indication) Rex with no pilot training could beat someone in the superior Ray model with both VR training and years of experience piloting it.

True, but at this point in the Metal Gear series, I try not to even think about what does or doesn't make sense. It's a world where nanomachines can perfectly repair a guy's brain after he's been shot right through the skull on more than one occasion. In that world, I'm willing to believe to suspend my disbelief quite a bit.

And I must have been lucky with Crying Wolf. I've fought her twice so far, and both times she only did rush attacks right at the beginning of the fight. The rest of the battle was long distance, with her using her railgun while I used my sniper rifle.

Adrenaline
06-17-2008, 10:23 AM
"You're doing it wrong." ;)

Only after I get accidentally spotted, of course.

It's surprising how laughably easy my mom is.

I figure that notion was dispelled when Rex in MGS1 was a more difficult boss fight than about a dozen Rays in MGS2.

Considering most of that boss's attacks involve it physically rushing you, um, no. I mean, I used a sniper rifle to kill it, but I could have used just about anything.

Really? I never saw an opening besides hiding and waiting for her to expose herself.

Brickroad
06-17-2008, 10:36 AM
Really? I never saw an opening besides hiding and waiting for her to expose herself.

Actually, if you have rations to spare, it's way easier to just let her rush you, then nail her with Javelins as she runs away. I did that a couple times before I learned the "trick".

Tomm Guycot
06-17-2008, 10:38 AM
Hey guys? Crying Wolf isn't invincible after you hit her. I juggled her 3 times with the grenade gun each time I knocked her down.

Matchstick
06-17-2008, 10:46 AM
Only after I get accidentally spotted, of course.

That's why you're doing it wrong. I'm obviously teasing, though, hence my emoticon.

Regarding the proposed sniper fight. It turns into one (of sorts) if you climb up on either of the towers.

Calorie Mate
06-17-2008, 11:26 AM
I couldn't figure out a good way to find Crying Wolf, so I just stood there in the open field until she fired her gun, would dodge the blast, then quickly whip out my sniper rifle and shoot her in the face. How was I supposed to find her? Almost none of her shows up on the NV Goggles...


And speaking of which, I am mightily displeased that there were no Thermal Goggles in the game. Those were always the single best item in the MGS games.

Jakanden
06-17-2008, 11:29 AM
Re Crying Wolf, I actually find it pretty easy. I had NV on the entire time, killed all the soldiers, climbed up the tower and then waited until she appeared with the SVD. She will eventually stop somewhere and come out of her shell to look for you. You will see a patch of heat with her name in the middle of darkness so she is easy to see.

SpoonyGundam
06-17-2008, 03:36 PM
test the waters for The Boss Extreme

So, yeah. After looking at Extreme for 20 minutes, I've come to my senses. It's, uh, not very fun. And, while I know getting Big Boss rank is possible, I'm not sure how. PMCs see you if from across the map if you do anything in their peripheral vision. I would be crawling at 80% camo and hear "Huh? What was that?" And then a tiny dot off in the distance gradually gets larger and it goes into alert when the guy gets 20 feet away from me. I imagine it might get easier when you meet up with the Mk II and get your stuff back, including 50 tranqs and 50 of each emotion round for your guns. But, uh, I didn't make it that far before deciding it just isn't worth it.

Maggie
06-17-2008, 06:14 PM
I figured Snake is so good with Rex because Otacon, the guy who built it, is plugged into the things cockpit via the Mk. 3.

Jakanden
06-17-2008, 07:12 PM
So on this play through I found out you could electrocute the Gekko near Otacon's office in Act IV. Just use the MK III to turn on the panel you destroyed in MGS1. Wish I had known that the first time through.

kungfukid
06-17-2008, 07:22 PM
Otacon did say that with him on Snake's side he can't lose.

Adrenaline
06-17-2008, 07:26 PM
So on this play through I found out you could dance. Wish I had known that the first time through.

I tried to stealth my way past there and Otacon told me that before I even tried traditional methods.

Alixsar
06-17-2008, 07:34 PM
Calorie, the NV Solid Eye doubles as thermal goggles. And they made the night vision in a way that it wasn't disorienting to use out in the light, so there you go.

The more you know!

Jakanden
06-17-2008, 07:51 PM
I tried to stealth my way past there and Otacon told me that before I even tried traditional methods.

That geek bastard never told me anything!

Jakanden
06-17-2008, 08:14 PM
I finally got a no alert win on Crying Wolf. My previous tactic doesn't work for that run so it took me a few tries. I found that if you camp out underneath the tank next to the starting point, the soldiers don't see you so long as you use a silenced weapon and don't kill them unless you have to.

I basically stayed there the entire time with the VSS along with NV and waited for Crying Wolf to show up in view. It took awhile but patience worked out as eventually she always showed up where I could shoot her. It also has the added benefit of not draining psyche since you are not standing in the biting wind.

It was actually easier this way even on a harder difficulty, it just took awhile.

Adrenaline
06-17-2008, 08:23 PM
That was honestly probably my favorite boss fight in the series since The End.

Jakanden
06-17-2008, 08:51 PM
I am inclined to agree, especially the Wolves coming to her at the end. Then again, I love pretty much everything in Act IV.

alexb
06-17-2008, 09:05 PM
Yeah, they're amassing a collection of dead hyper-sexualized crazy women.

Jakanden
06-18-2008, 02:58 PM
So did anyone else get kissed by Ocelot during the final fight?

Alixsar
06-18-2008, 04:05 PM
So did anyone else get kissed by Ocelot during the final fight?

WHAT

How the hell does that happen? I slammed his head into the wall a few times and we each reversed each other's CQC moves but...what?

Willm
06-18-2008, 04:16 PM
WHAT

How the hell does that happen? I slammed his head into the wall a few times and we each reversed each other's CQC moves but...what?

I believe it's during the 3rd part of the fight. If he grabs you, don't press anything, and eventually he'll kiss you on the cheek.
I saw that on my first playthrough, and was just really, really confused...

Jakanden
06-18-2008, 04:25 PM
I believe it's during the 3rd part of the fight. If he grabs you, don't press anything, and eventually he'll kiss you on the cheek.
I saw that on my first playthrough, and was just really, really confused...

Yeah, this is correct.

So upon a second completion and the thread discussions, MGS3 is still my favorite in the series. MGS4 is a close second and has my favorite portion of any Metal Gear game ever (Act IV), but MGS3 as a whole is better to me.

As a side note, I did get the Assassins camo this time around.

SpoonyGundam
06-18-2008, 08:32 PM
New discoveries!

1. You can one-shot Raging Raven with a headshot from the fully-charged Rail Gun while she's flying around. It's actually pretty easy!

2. You can one-shot Vamp with the fully-charged Solar Gun. And that's wonderful.

3. I just found out you can use the iPod in Rex. I had Beyond the Bounds (The ZOE 2 theme) playing the entire time and it made the experience even better.

Rosencrantz
06-18-2008, 09:02 PM
New discoveries!

1. You can one-shot Mickey Mouse with a headshot from the double-barreled keyblade gun. It's actually pretty easy!


...Damn, that doesn't help me on my current (no-kill) game. Speaking of which, if anyone has any good tranquilizing strategies for the bosses (I've JUST now beat Laughing Octopus), I would appreciate it. Raven was annoying enough the first time, using heavy weaponry.

SilentSnake
06-18-2008, 09:07 PM
You can headshot Vamp for an instant kill with anything. Trust me. I've done it like fifteen times. In one fight!

Adrenaline
06-18-2008, 09:08 PM
As a side note, I did get the Assassins camo this time around.

Things in promo videos don't need to be spoiler texted.

Jakanden
06-18-2008, 09:10 PM
I know a number of people who intentionally viewed no videos whatsoever from the game (such as djsyndrome) so I am just being safe.

SpoonyGundam
06-18-2008, 09:17 PM
You can headshot Alucard for an instant kill with anything. Trust me. I've done it like fifteen times.

Yeah, but you don't have to headshot him with the above method. Hit him square in the chest, I did.

Also, only the Beauty forms of the B&B members count as kills. You can take out the Beast forms however you feel like, unless you're trying to get the Solar Gun.

For stamina kills, I think I used the shotgun's non-lethal rounds on Raven, though the grenade launcher loaded with stun grenades might take her down faster. Be careful not to get too close if you use those, though. Just coax her into entering the building and you should be fine. Track her with nightvision when she overheats, and plug her in the head with the mosin nagant.

Adrenaline
06-18-2008, 09:23 PM
This would be easy to figure out if I was actually playing the game and trying, but how do you change ammo type? Is it an option in the weapon viewer for qualifying guns?

SpoonyGundam
06-18-2008, 10:33 PM
Press circle when you're selecting a weapon from the menu to scroll through ammo types. The in-game R2 menu, not the pause menu.

Add to Queue's VsRobot
06-18-2008, 11:23 PM
V-Ring ammo in the shotguns is a huge help when trying to get stamina kills on the beasts.

wahoninja
06-19-2008, 09:15 AM
I just heard the Shawns on GFW Radio saying how they weren't feeling the Prague level, which I dug. It seems that maybe both of them did that section wearing the civilian clothes. I wore them threads for maybe 5 minutes before switching to octo-camo and had fun. What's the point of the civilian wear in that section?

It's a great listen, by the way. (As always.)

Adrenaline
06-19-2008, 09:26 AM
What's the point of the civilian wear in that section?

Looking badass (I only switched to Octocamo when I had to).

Calorie Mate
06-19-2008, 09:33 AM
As a side note, I did get the Brickroad camo this time around.

That's just by slitting throats 50 times or something, right? I'm doing my second playthrough, and I think I'm close to that by the end of Act I already...


Looking badass (I only switched to Octocamo when I had to).

Yeah, this is pretty much it. I kept it on the whole time because IT WAS AWESOME.

wahoninja
06-19-2008, 09:40 AM
I can get behind that. Next playthrough, soon as I get the civies, that's all I'll wear. If only for the image of Snake casually walking through Shadow Moses and Outer Haven with his hands in his pockets.

Calorie Mate
06-19-2008, 09:43 AM
I can get behind that. Next playthrough, soon as I get the civies, that's all I'll wear. If only for the image of Snake casually walking through Shadow Moses and Outer Haven with his hands in his pockets.

It'll almost be like playing Persona 3 again!


(Note: I prefer Snake's black suit on my second playthrough. It makes me feel fancy.)

SpoonyGundam
06-19-2008, 09:44 AM
That's just by dancing a jig, right?

You have to get 50 knife kills, do 50 CQC holds, and get spotted less than 25 times.

Adrenaline
06-19-2008, 09:50 AM
I can get behind that. Next playthrough, soon as I get the civies, that's all I'll wear. If only for the image of Snake casually walking through Shadow Moses and Outer Haven with his hands in his pockets.

He loses the act specific costumes at the end of their respective acts. But you can use the suit I guess.

You have to jump 300 times.

Does grabbing someone and slitting their throat count as a knife kill and a CQC hold?

alexb
06-19-2008, 09:57 AM
I liked how the fog and drizzle slowly seeped into the coat, making it turn a darker color on the back and shoulders.

SpoonyGundam
06-19-2008, 10:02 AM
Does grabbing someone and slitting their throat count as a knife kill and a CQC hold?

Yeah, it does. That's how I ended up doing it, actually. I had around twice as many as I needed for both by the end of the game, but that was largely because I was running around shanking people with the Stealth thing equipped.

Calorie Mate
06-19-2008, 11:00 AM
Yeah, it does. That's how I ended up doing it, actually. I had around twice as many as I needed for both by the end of the game, but that was largely because I was running around shanking people with the Stealth thing equipped.

Excellent, that's all I've been doing. Mwahahaha.

wahoninja
06-19-2008, 04:41 PM
It'll almost be like playing Persona 3 again!


So what you're saying is that Snake did shoot himself, and Big Boss was the Persona thingy that appeared?

SilentSnake
06-19-2008, 08:47 PM
Gah I've hit my first wall in my Big Boss Hard playthrough. Act III was a nice change the first time, but now it is just frustrating and repetitious. Although I used the Mk II for the first time ever here! Man it's useful.

Rosencrantz
06-19-2008, 08:58 PM
Gah I've hit my first wall in my Big Boss Hard playthrough. Act III was a nice change the first time, but now it is just frustrating and repetitious. Although I used the Mk II for the first time ever here! Man it's useful.

I think when I do my no-alert game (which will be the first time I've ever even attempted doing that in a MGS game) I'll be using the Mk II a lot to clear my path.

SilentSnake
06-19-2008, 09:00 PM
Oh that's kinda cool. The agent you're following takes a completely different route in Big Boss Hard.

Calorie Mate
06-20-2008, 09:43 AM
Did all of you put in Otacon's code correctly in Act IV? I actually forgot it (and didn't write it down), but I would like to put forward the idea that I saw one of the best scenes in the game and you didn't (unless you forgot it, too).

For those that are curious: Otacon teases Snake about his memory, but then Snake sounds really disappointed about it, and suddenly Otacon's tone of voice changes to that of a friend who suddenly realized he was accidentally more insensitive than he meant to be. This was probably the single best example in the game of Snake actually being concerned that he's growing old, and the vocie acting from both characters really shines. I highly recommend you mess up on purpose in a subsequent playthrough, if you didn't see it.

Adrenaline
06-20-2008, 09:51 AM
I messed it up on accident the first time.

SpoonyGundam
06-20-2008, 10:28 AM
There are a couple of Policenauts iPod songs you can get if you input certain other passwords in that scene, too. 78925 and 13462. You can also input 14893 for a decent chunk of free Drebin points.

Calorie Mate
06-20-2008, 10:43 AM
Man, I would like someone to compile the soundtrack to this game, including the music from others games in it.

Willm
06-20-2008, 11:07 AM
Did all of you put in Otacon's code correctly in Act IV? I actually forgot it (and didn't write it down), but I would like to put forward the idea that I saw one of the best scenes in the game and you didn't (unless you forgot it, too).

For those that are curious: Snake goes to the Scooter Store, and checks his blood sugar often. This was probably the single best example in the game of Snake actually being concerned that he's growing old, and the vocie acting from both characters really shines. I highly recommend you mess up on purpose in a subsequent playthrough, if you didn't see it.

I thought Act IV in its entirety did a great job demonstrating the breadth of Snake's aging, not just through his character, but through the environment as well. For instance, the archaic security camera, a once-threatening entity in the MGS universe, breaks from years of neglect, and is replaced by the incredibly advanced Gekkos and Dwarf Gekkos. The best representation, though, is when Snake finds Rex. Snake and Rex are eerily similar. Both were once at the pinnacle of excellence, but are now nothing more than relics from an era of warfare that has been long sense passed on by the modern world. Ironically, despite being obsolete by modern standards, both are of paramount importance; in order to save the world, Old Snake is needed for one last mission to destroy his sworn enemy, while said enemy needs Rex (or rather, its Railgun) one last time to dominate the world by destroying JD. I thought it excellent, and was a refreshingly subtle way to make a point (well, subtle for Kojima.) It's too bad, then, that Kojima bashes the game's other messages and themes into the player's skull.

Speaking of secrets and the soundtrack, has anyone messed around with the password screen in the Extras menu? I recently discovered that if you enter the names of each of the four presidents on Mount Rushmore in lower case (george, abraham, etc.) you can unlock four iPod tunes from MGS4. It makes me wonder how much content is locked on the disc...

Calorie Mate
06-20-2008, 11:21 AM
Yes, Act IV was totally great in that way. That's a big part of why it might be my favorite act (nostalgia notwithstanding).

Also: the freaky PS1 face camo. I love that thing.

TheSL
06-20-2008, 11:26 AM
I think its a shame you can't skip around and just play a particular chapter of the game, like how you could choose the tanker of the plant in MGS2.

Calorie Mate
06-20-2008, 11:56 AM
Definitely.


So I just realized something: sure, the bosses in MGS4 have names that reference both MGS1 bosses and MGS3 bosses (fury/rage, crying/sorrow, laughing/the joy, screaming/the pain) but I never realized their weapons are all references to MGS2 bosses (Solidus' robotic octopus arms, Fatman's bombs, Fortune's rail gun, and Vamp's knives, respectively). I think that's pretty sweet.

Brickroad
06-20-2008, 12:00 PM
So I just realized something: sure, the bosses in MGS4 have names that reference both MGS1 bosses and MGS3 bosses (fury/rage, crying/sorrow, laughing/the joy, screaming/the pain) but I never realized their weapons are all references to MGS2 bosses (Solidus' robotic octopus arms, Fatman's bombs, Fortune's rail gun, and Vamp's knives, respectively). I think that's pretty sweet.

Nice catch, Caloriedude.

Except you never get a real boss fight against Fortune. I always thought that was one of MGS2's biggest failures.

Adrenaline
06-20-2008, 12:08 PM
How would you even have one? After Ocelot turns off her magic machine?

You don't fight Octopus either. Or the Sorrow.

You messed up the respectively thing, Cal.

The Joy + Decoy Octopus + Solidus' arms = Laughing Octopus
The Fury + Vulcan Raven + Fatman's bombs = Raging Raven
The Sorrow + Sniper Wolf + Fortune's railgun = Crying Wolf
The Pain (or The Fear? both cause screaming) + Psycho Mantis + Vamp's knives = Screaming Mantis

It would have made more sense if it was Crying Mantis, since she has dolls of The Sorrow and Psycho Mantis.

Brickroad
06-20-2008, 12:15 PM
How would you even have one? After Ocelot turns off her magic machine?

Or learn the source of her "luck" earlier in the game and have to figure out how to circumvent it.

Just like it was impossible to destroy Raven's tank until Snake dropped some grenades into it. Or how it was impossible to shoot down the Hind until Snake found some Stingers. Or how the Cyborg Ninja deflects bullets, so you have to take him down hand-to-hand. Or how Vamp is immortal until you shoot him up with evil nano-eating nanos.

TheSL
06-20-2008, 12:19 PM
So does that database thing say anything about Fortune's luck? Was it really nanomachines doing it? Its been quite a while since I've seen those old cutscenes.

Brickroad
06-20-2008, 12:21 PM
So does that database thing say anything about Fortune's luck? Was it really nanomachines doing it? Its been quite a while since I've seen those old cutscenes.

The bullets-missing-her-thing was an electromagnetic doohickey she wore. Ocelot disabled it and shot her through the heart, not knowing Fortune's heart was on the "wrong" side of her body. So she survived long enough to do whatever she did before she died.

TheSL
06-20-2008, 12:26 PM
Yeah, I remembered it was an electromagnet and Ocelot had the on/off switch but I didn't remember where it was located(externally or internally). I figured if they were going to explain Vamp's immortality with nanos they might as well do Fortune while they're at it. Like Vamp did.

cortbassist89
06-20-2008, 12:32 PM
The bullets-missing-her-thing was an electromagnetic doohickey she wore. Ocelot disabled it and shot her through the heart, not knowing Fortune's heart was on the "wrong" side of her body. So she survived long enough to do whatever she did before she died.
That'd be one helluvan electromagnetic.

But I'm sure in Kojima's world you can make one that powerful out of discrete nanomachines.

Adrenaline
06-20-2008, 12:50 PM
So she survived long enough to do whatever she did before she died.

Which happened to be magically deflect a bunch of bullets by herself. What the fuck.

Brickroad
06-20-2008, 12:50 PM
Which happened to be magically deflect a bunch of bullets by herself. What the fuck.

Ooooh right, I forgot about that part.

Maybe The Sorrow was controlling her too?

TheSL
06-20-2008, 12:52 PM
Nanomachines. Its the answer to all plot holes in Metal Gear.

Alixsar
06-20-2008, 01:28 PM
Nanomachines. Its the answer to all plot holes in Metal Gear.

It's one of the answers. Like I said in one of these threads before, the other is that "it was the plan all along". So maybe when Liquid/Ocelot/Whatever the hell he was at that point in the story fired those missiles at everyone, he meant to miss to fool the Patriots...which was all part of his grand scheme to destroy the Patriots!

Or something. Fuck, I don't know. Kojima is ridiculous.

Calorie Mate
06-20-2008, 03:40 PM
You messed up the respectively thing, Cal.

Nah, man. All I was pointing out were the emotions from MGS3 (example: "The Joy") and the different words they used for 'em in MGS4 (same example: "Laughing"). You went ahead and put it altogether, but I'd assumed everyone else could to that on their own.


Anyway, I always assumed Fortune reflecting the missles after her death was explainable by way of "Hm, maybe she'd had that damn thing reflecting stuff for her for so long that there was some sort of after-effect". That, or, y'know: miracles, which Kojima (for once, thankfully) didn't feel the need to explain in minute detail.

And y'know what? Honestly, I blame a lot of the fans for Kojima writing everything the way he did. People became SO obsessed with every minute detail (Liquid's arm, why Snake didn't use CQC even though it wasn't a gameplay mechanic until 2004, etc.) and the game was meant to please fans (see: Act IV) that he threw everything and the kitchen sink in there. Since MGS1, we've had guys that can levitate and read your mind, carry railguns on their backs, and bipedal nuclear tanks. I think if Kojima had never bothered explaining the Liquid Ocelot thing (or, y'know, LEAVING IT TO THE PLAYER TO FIGURE OUT WITH THE CLUES IN MGS3), it would have been a lot better.

So, to reiterate: I blame the obsessive fans and Kojima's desire to wrap everything up and attempt to please everyone so that he could move on and do something new.

SpoonyGundam
06-20-2008, 04:02 PM
The Joy + Decoy Octopus + Solidus' arms = Laughing Octopus

Laughing Octopus also uses a P90, the same gun Solidus used to take out a few Rays near the end of the game.

Adrenaline
06-20-2008, 04:04 PM
The respectively threw me off.

Calorie Mate
06-20-2008, 04:22 PM
Ah, my apologies. I switched the order in that accidentally later.

Destil
06-20-2008, 04:25 PM
I just finshed Act 4...

This is easily my favorite Act so far! A loving tribute to the original, and 'Otakon, I had that dream again.' finally snatched the series' best line trophy from MGS2's: 'Don't worry *taps headband* infinite ammo.' Right down to the music when you die being ripped from MGS1.

That's what sneaking through an arctic wasteland should look like!

I got lucky sneaking around during the wolf fight and actually turned a corner to see her in front of me looking for me (I was upwind!). Took a few steps back and nailed her with a javelin. Awesome.

Dear god, why have we never piloted a metal gear in one of these games before!?!? (I never never finished 3, so don't tear me a new one if you rip around in the shagahod a bit). That's the best set-piece battle I've ever played in a game. It's just too awesome, and here I was complaining that all the weapons were useless during the escape sequence.

Oh, Raiden, you and your wacky cut-scene physics! I don't quite 'love' the guy (damn the fight with the gekos while Otakon boots up rex is annoying... I really needed the full screen there :(), but I never hated him.

Rose, on the other hand, I really... really despise.

Calorie Mate
06-20-2008, 04:29 PM
What is this "javelin" everyone speaks of?

SpoonyGundam
06-20-2008, 04:36 PM
It's one of the rocket launchers.

Matchstick
06-20-2008, 06:44 PM
What is this "javelin" everyone speaks of?

It's an anti-tank missile.

Alixsar
06-20-2008, 06:44 PM
You can get it on one of the rooftops in Act I before you see the B&B Corps for the first time. The more you know!

SpoonyGundam
06-20-2008, 09:22 PM
Bizarre Fact: If you wear the Otacon face camo and the civilian clothes during Act III, the guards won't mess with you. I guess the PMCs know better than to fuck with Otacon.

EDIT: As long as you don't have a weapon equipped. Still, though. Weird.

Adrenaline
06-20-2008, 09:39 PM
Bizarre Fact: If you wear the Otacon face camo and the civilian clothes during Act III, the guards won't mess with you. I guess the PMCs know better than to fuck with Otacon.

EDIT: As long as you don't have a weapon equipped. Still, though. Weird.

That would make sense if there wasn't a curfew. Still cool.

SpoonyGundam
06-21-2008, 02:53 PM
4:21:12

I am Big Boss now.

SilentSnake
06-21-2008, 07:18 PM
The thought of trying to get all 40 emblems without an FAQ boggles the mind.

djSyndrome
06-21-2008, 07:33 PM
So much for Shadow Moses being empty for the last nine years; someone apparently threw up a ZOE2 poster in the interim.

Adrenaline
06-21-2008, 07:45 PM
So much for Shadow Moses being empty for the last nine years; someone apparently threw up a ZOE2 poster in the interim.

The game was released in 2003 and MGS1 took place in 2005, so it could have been there already. Unless you know its exact location was bare in that game.

Eusis
06-21-2008, 08:33 PM
I know who did it! It was Silicon Knights. I think it's their way of acknowledging that the remake changed some things. Personally, I missed seeing the Playstations. He or others working on the team could've wanted to play old Playstation games!

estragon
06-21-2008, 09:40 PM
So, I finished yesterday. My main title was Hawk (resistance fighters/anti-PMC fighters loved me), and I also got Scorpion (low alerts, low kills, low something else I don't remember) and Hyena (relied on found items).

Immediately after finishing the game, I was actually sort of down on it and though it was the weakest in the series. However, on reflection, when I tried to think of any gameplay complaints I had, I really couldn't think of any. I loved pretty much every moment I was in control of what was going on.

I saw that a lot of people were frustrated with the beginning of Act 3, but that was probably my favorite part of the game. There are some complaints about the bosses, but while the bosses were definitely not MGS3 bosses, they were way better than the MGS2 bosses. Also, I really liked the robots later in the game and thought they changed up gameplay in a fun way and had sweet visual design. All around, I thought the gameplay was great.

However, the cut scenes were just so overdone that it tricked me into thinking I didn't like the game. It wasn't a problem of length so much as it was one of pacing and "acting" (not the voice acting, which was great, but the digital acting, which was a mess). Despite the character models being highly realistic, a lot of the "acting" was really just not good. A lot of this could and should have been fixed during the editing process. I think you could easily re-edit a lotof those scenes into being workable, but they just dragged on for too long. (i.e. The scene with the boats at the end of ACT III that Calorie Mate referenced.)

One other problem here is that certain sequences (Metal Gear Fight and Snake vs. Liquid: Generations) just demonstrated that a lot of the action sequences could have been much better as gameplay. The extended cutscene of Raiden fighting Vamp looked great in the trailer, but the actual scene was a victim of the bad editing and slow pace that plagued most of the game. It felt strangely languig. Instead having us watching this, why not let us play it? The bad romatic comedy scene in ACT V was way too long and killed the mood. Instead of having us watch this, why not let us play it? etc.etc.

The problem with sequences like the major events at the end of ACT IV and ACT V is that they show just how lazy cutscenes are. If you're capable of giving us a Rex vs. Ray fight, it just makes it even more clear how unnecessary it is to wrench control away from the player to tell your story.

That being said, I seriously have no complaints about the gameplay at any point of the game and will probably replay it sometime soon.

SpoonyGundam
06-21-2008, 09:50 PM
I loved the beginning of Act III... the first time I did it. I've since done it three more times, and it holds up less than any other part of the game on replays, in my opinion. It's largely because you have to play that section at the resistance guy's pace, rather than your own. I can speed through other areas I don't like or stick around areas I do like, but I don't really have much of a choice in that segment.

Willm
06-23-2008, 06:37 AM
I finally managed to get the Big Boss rank. Yay! It wasn't quite as bad as I expected, although I still think getting the best rank in MGS3 was the easiest in the series. I felt the hardest part was making the time requirement...my final time was 4:46. I was making great time until the Crying Wolf fight, which took a long longer than it should have, not to mention all of the times I had to quit and restart becasue some FROG spotted me.

And the rewards for obtaining the Big Boss rank kind of make me regret going for it in the first place. Sure, the Big Boss (Solidus) face camo is fun at first, and makes some of the cutscenes far more interesting, but I'd rather run around with the stealth camo and mess with people. And the Patriot? It's kind of lame. Sure, it has that nifty infinite clip, but the accuracy, recoil, and damage stats for it are kind of crappy. And to think, they were just giving away the things in MGS3. Personally, I think the weapon you get for the Foxhound rank (Thor .45-70) is more interesting.

Well, after playing MGS4 obsessively since it came out, I think I'm done for the time being. There's no way in hell I'm going to attempt getting all 40 emblems, simply because of the insane "Chicken" rank(35 hours+ for one playthrough!?) Besides, from what I've heard, the only reward you get for it is Snake Eater for the iPod. Uhm, no thanks. I am warming up more and more towards MGO, though, so at least I'll be playing some form of Metal Gear for a while longer.

Nicholai
06-23-2008, 08:47 AM
Now that I finished the game the first time I was wondering if when you attempt to get the Solar Gun do you have to only take care of the Frogs in the building and the four BBs non-lethally and find the statues or do you have to take care of everyone non-lethally? I know you get the bandanna for going non-lethal the entire game, but I'm not sure I'm up for it.

I'd peruse gamefaqs, but the FAQs aren't so hot yet and I loathe their message boards.

Adrenaline
06-23-2008, 09:02 AM
And the rewards for obtaining the Big Boss rank kind of make me regret going for it in the first place... Personally, I think the weapon you get for the Foxhound rank Cake is more interesting.

Does completing Big Boss earn you the stuff with slightly laxer requirements? It would be lame if it didn't.

Now that I finished the game the first time I was wondering if when you attempt to get the Solar Gun do you have to only take care of the Frogs in the building and the four BBs non-lethally and find the statues or do you have to take care of everyone non-lethally?

Just what you said, not everyone.

Nicholai
06-23-2008, 09:21 AM
Just what you said, not everyone.

Sweet. I think I'll start a second game sometime this week and try for no kills at all, but if I get too annoyed I'll at least be able to get the statues for the solar gun.

ShakeWell
06-23-2008, 10:45 AM
The final boss fight was fucking great.

That's all.

SpoonyGundam
06-23-2008, 12:14 PM
Does completing Big Boss earn you the stuff with slightly laxer requirements? It would be lame if it didn't.

Yeah, it does.

And, yes, Chicken is stupid. I guess it helps to want to watch the cutscenes again, though.

Adrenaline
06-23-2008, 12:16 PM
I kinda want to try it but I doubt I'll have the patience to reset every time I get seen.

djSyndrome
06-23-2008, 12:20 PM
The final boss fight was fucking great.

Yeah, it was. In 1998.

There's a difference between 'homage' and 'borrowing liberally'. Guess what category MGS4 falls into!

SpoonyGundam
06-23-2008, 12:27 PM
I kinda want to try it but I doubt I'll have the patience to reset every time I get seen.

The worst sneaking part is the beginning of Act II, I think. Most of the places other than that aren't that bad, thanks to tranqs and never really having to get up out of a crawl. It's more likely that you'll be restarting a billion times doing the stupid motorcycle thing without healing in Act III.

Willm
06-23-2008, 01:16 PM
The worst sneaking part is the beginning of Act II, I think. Most of the places other than that aren't that bad, thanks to tranqs and never really having to get up out of a crawl. It's more likely that you'll be restarting a billion times doing the stupid motorcycle thing without healing in Act III.

Good GOD the motorcycle chase is horrible on Extreme. It's amazing how quickly you can die without even realizing what happened. I think I made it out of that part by sheer luck.

The early parts of Act II can be pretty hard, but sneaking isn't too bad overall. I had more trouble than I should have had with Crying Wolf, though. I was really unlucky with FROGs jumping and landing right next to me, bringing about an alert and forcing me to reload. But other than that, once you get to Act IV it is relatively smooth sailing.

If you are planning on going for the Big Boss rank, I would recommend stocking up on all non-lethal ammunition, as well as the special emotion bullets you can buy after your first playthrough, since you can't buy them from Drebin on Extreme. Having the Solar Gun can make some parts easier as well (Vamp goes down FAST with it.) Sure, it's a little cheap, but I really didn't have the desire to start a new game with no equipment on Extreme. Besides, after having to replay the motorcycle chase for over an hour, I thought I was entitled to cheese some parts....

And the Chicken rank? No chance I'm going for it now. When I inevitably decide to play through MGS4 again though (and watch the cutscenes again) I'll probably go for it. Until then, no Snake Eater iPod song for me...

Also, I definitely didn't think the final boss fight was great, but I really didn't have as much of a problem with it as some other people. The mechanics sucked, but I did enjoy the fight shifting from one game to the next. Admittedly, the taint of nostalgia might be clouding my judgement a little on this one. Honestly though, I think it's better than the swordfight at the end of MGS2; I'll take awkward Tekken controls over bad analog stick swordplay anyday. And seriously Jeremy, worse than Snake's Revenge? That might be a bit of an exaggeration.

Adrenaline
06-23-2008, 01:32 PM
I thought the game said it didn't save music you found anyway?

SpoonyGundam
06-23-2008, 01:44 PM
No, it saves iPod music. That little blurb about items on replays is just worded funny.

It just means you get all of the stuff you had in the previous game back when you meet up with Metal Gear Mk II, except the iPod stuff, since you start with the iPod. You have everything for it in the beginning.

For Crying Wolf, I just chilled out under the truck at the beginning and plugged away at her with that suppressor-compatible sniper rifle. It took 20 minutes, but I spent so little time on Act III (And, later, Act V) that it honestly didn't really matter.

Also, I warmed up to the last boss a little when I beat him, only getting hit once, just by spamming strong punches. On Extreme.

Alixsar
06-23-2008, 01:53 PM
Also, I warmed up to the last boss a little when I beat him, only getting hit once, just by spamming strong punches. On Extreme.

I had that work on the first form, but I could never get it to work on the other two. But luckily there were other attacks that could do the same thing for his other forms.

Calorie Mate
06-23-2008, 03:05 PM
I don't see what everyone's problem with the last fight was, and I'm of the opinion that if you didn't like it, you probably didn't hit Select and see the controls for it. a shirtless, one-on-one fist fight with the series' antagonist in what was an homage to the game that put the series on the map. Sure, it handled differently from the rest of the game, but that's because you had way more options to kick ass with, which was nice in a full-on brawl (replay the Liquid fight at the end of MGS1 to see what a fight just using the game's mechanics would be like). And it wasn't a "shitty fighting game" because fighting games reward practice and have hidden moves and such. This was supposed to be a one-time, no-holds-barred ass kicking contest.

Ya'll are too harsh on it. I'm with Shakewell. I liked it a lot.

Brickroad
06-23-2008, 03:08 PM
On the contrary; there should have been more fights like it.

Every single cutscene where someone was KICKING ASS but you weren't actually doing anything? Good opportunity for a set-piece boss fight.

It's like they found that happy medium between cutscenes and QTEs, then didn't run with it.

Parish
06-23-2008, 03:17 PM
I would have been willing to accept this final battle if not for the utter genius of Snake Eater's battle with The Boss.

Willm
06-23-2008, 03:37 PM
I would have been willing to accept this final battle if not for the utter genius of Snake Eater's battle with The Boss.

I agree with that part, simply because it did everything a final boss fight should do by making the player to combine the skills he's learned over the course of the game, and it did so brilliantly. Not to mention the impact of forcing the player to pull the trigger on the Patriot after the fight. Considering that I think the fight with The Boss is the greatest final boss battle ever though, I think it's a little unfair to disparage the MGS4 fight for not living up to its glory.

And I agree that the fight was a good way to blend cutscenes and gameplay, but I feel that it would have been great exclamation point to a boss. Instead, it was the final boss fight, and I felt a little disappointed. Again, I thought it was enjoyable, I just wish there was something more substantial before it. Then again, I feel the same way about the entirety of Act V: I enjoyed it, but I wish there was more to it.

Calorie Mate
06-23-2008, 04:54 PM
I would have been willing to accept this final battle if not for the utter genius of Snake Eater's battle with The Boss.

Well yeah. Like willm137 said, though, I can't hold it against MGS4 that it didn't compare to what I consider the best final boss fight, period.

ShakeWell
06-23-2008, 11:39 PM
I would have been willing to accept this final battle if not for the utter genius of Snake Eater's battle with The Boss.

All the boss fights in 4 aren't as good as the boss fights in 3. That doesn't mean the final boss fight in 4 wasn't still awesome, taken on its own.

Calorie Mate
06-24-2008, 02:11 PM
It's funny, the loading bothers me a lot more on my 2nd playthrough than my first.

No, seriously, let's talk a little more about this. MGS1 didn't even have them. WTF, KojiPro?

Brickroad
06-24-2008, 02:17 PM
I especially like how the game actually takes time out to poke fun at the archaic practice of swapping discs... and then has the audacity to install each Act separately.

Dear Konami, in the time it takes to install a new Act I could have swapped the disc, discovered I'd put in the wrong disc, swapped it again, gone to the bathroom, refreshed my drink and checked my e-mail.

So okay, installation is a necessary evil. Shouldn't it have been possible to, first off, not make it necessary to install each Act every time you switch to that Act from another Act, and secondly, install during that Act's Mission Briefing? Is it really necessary to sit there and watch Snake smoke for 2-4 minutes?

(The loading time never bothered me much, though I thought it was cute how you have to push a button to make the loading screen go away.)

TheSL
06-24-2008, 02:24 PM
A thing that bugs me in general about PS3 games is the fact that they all seem to put up that "Acknowledge the fact that your system has a hard drive and you shouldn't do dumb things like cut power when saving. Push x to continue." message come up every time you turn it on. I would put this in the same category of annoyance as being forced to reinstall every time I play a chapter.

alexb
06-24-2008, 02:25 PM
So okay, installation is a necessary evil.

Yeah, but why is that? Why is it that this generation's load times have become so stupidly long? MGS is merely an egregious transgressor in a pack of games that not only require an install but also still take for goddamn ever to load.

Brickroad
06-24-2008, 02:27 PM
Yeah, but why is that? Why is it that this generation's load times have become so stupidly long? MGS is merely an egregious transgressor in a pack of games that not only require an install but also still take for goddamn ever to load.

Well, the entirety of my post is assuming that installation is a necessary evil; that is, taking the claims at face value. If we assume that, why couldn't we at least dress the installation up so it isn't an affront to the player?

I don't actually grant that it is necessary, but that's kind of out of the scope of what I was getting at here. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Patrick
06-24-2008, 02:28 PM
My roommate and I were both playing through the game at the same time. First of all, the only way to differentiate between saves is to look at the time and date they were saved at, because they kept switching places. Secondly, later in the game I ended up an act ahead of him, and every time one of us started, we had to install the act we were playing. That's right: I had to install each act several times. Also, even if your game save is at the end of the briefing and the act you're starting is already installed, it makes you install it!

Tomm Guycot
06-24-2008, 02:36 PM
A thing that bugs me in general about PS3 games is the fact that they all seem to put up that "Acknowledge the fact that your system has a hard drive and you shouldn't do dumb things like cut power when saving. Push x to continue." message come up every time you turn it on. I would put this in the same category of annoyance as being forced to reinstall every time I play a chapter.

Because everyone who owns a PS3 hasn't been gaming for twenty years or no how computer components work, and Sony isn't fond of unnecessary customer service calls I'm guessing.

This is seriously on your "annoyance" list? Really?

Odin
06-24-2008, 02:49 PM
You know, it's funny. Everyone bitched about the load times as the game hit stores and folks took it home to play. I was shocked that 4 gigs took a mere 8 minutes to read and install. The PS3 is the most advanced computer I own. When I had to stop for 3 minutes to install something new between each act, I shrugged and said "oh, well". But like CalorieMate, on my second playthrough the loading is bugging me more. I wouldn't say rage, but it has become an annoyance. From what Patrick says I'm going to learn to hate it when I start hopping around the game replaying favorite setpieces.

TheSL - wait, ALL PS3 games make you read that and confirm before starting!? Then what's the point of letting it auto-start your game? You still have to press a button! And it bumps Sony one level towards Nintendo's (mandated, I've heard) Health and Safety screen. It makes me pine for the days of crisp, colorful 8-bit sprites. I remember what a shock it was to me when I went from my PS2 and Wii back to the Famicom for a couple games. I could restart a game of Contra and be halfway through level 1 in the time it takes my DS/PS2/Wii to load most games up.

Calorie Mate
06-24-2008, 02:51 PM
They really should have given the option to install all the acts at once, if you wanted to. I can only hope that's what they do with the inevitable Subsistence version (whatever they end up calling it).

What really gets me is how smooth the transitions for the whole motorcycle chase in MGS3 were, and how annoying the load times makes a similar set piece in this game. (Yes, they masked loading in MGS3 with the transitions between areas, but they a) weren't as long as MGS4's, and b) didn't even try to hide it this time.)

I guess the best thing I can say about MGS4 is that it's still a lot of fun to play, despite all of this.

Adrenaline
06-24-2008, 03:00 PM
TheSL - wait, ALL PS3 games make you read that and confirm before starting!?

No.

Calorie Mate
06-24-2008, 03:04 PM
If I remember correctly, TheSL bought his PS3 for MGS4 right before the MGO beta, and the only games he has played on it are MGS4 and MGO...so his complaint is with Metal Gear, not PS3.

...although I think his brother has had a PS3 for awhile, so he probably has seen more games than I have...but yeah, definitely not every game does this.

Eusis
06-24-2008, 04:00 PM
I just wished they used that for the message while loading the game up rather than waiting on you to press X. What's worse though is how this "Press X to Continue" pops up every so often throughout the game after it's loading. The hell? Not the biggest deal, and I've used it to my advantage a few times, but it makes the fact there's still significant loading despite an installation that's followed up with re-installations stick out more.