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MikeDinosaur
02-07-2009, 12:02 PM
We seem to have a thread for every other outgrowth of Japanese narrative drawing, and manga's mostly much better than anime, so shouldn't it get a thread? I propose the answer is yes. There is already a comics thread, but manga really is such a radically different beast I don't think they should be consorting.

I've been making my way through Phoenix; I just finished Karma, which was great, and definitely a big improvement after the one about the funny-faced emperor and alien things. I feel like Tezuka needs some minimum of space to make you care about his characters, otherwise they become too cardboard. I mean, all of his characters are very archetypal, not exactly Shakesperian, but... you know. Anyway, it was great! Probably my favorite thing I've read from him other than Future. I think Japan was so lucky to have him shepherding manga in its infancy. Maybe if Jerry Siegel or Bob Kane were as adventurous as him we wouldn't have had to wait so long for things like Contract with God and From Hell, or maybe those things would take up commensurate space with stuff like Superman.

I also read Devil Man recently, which was... terrible. It started out as passable trash, until it started in on this, "Look what's become of humanity! We're just like the devils!" Also, how much of manga's drive to serve up as much nude fan service as possible can be attributed to Go Nagai?

I read about ten pages of Violence Jack. What the fuck is wrong with this guy?

I like Uzumaki and the Akira manga.

Suggestions for further reading? What's great? What's shit?

BEAT
02-07-2009, 12:03 PM
Trigun.

Kishi
02-07-2009, 12:05 PM
I read about ten pages of Violence Jack. What the fuck is wrong with this guy?

I don't know, but he's not chicken (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipr-wS5iBv0).

Makkara
02-07-2009, 12:08 PM
Don't know if you people ever heard of it, but Yotsuba&! is pretty good.

Epistaxis
02-07-2009, 12:25 PM
King of Thorns is pretty badass. Pure whites and solid blacks, with shading only in certain small areas. The artwork is as good as the story, which has some decent twists and turns. I'm still in the process of finishing it up.

Pombar
02-07-2009, 12:49 PM
Kurogane, the 5 volume series, is entirely awesome. Zombie puppet mute samurai series have no right to be this good.

Also read 666 Satan and then wondered why. I guess talent doesn't run in that family.

Wolfgang
02-07-2009, 12:55 PM
Everybody derdes Sgt. Frog, but that's only because nobody's ever read it, and they'd heard it sometimes depicts panties. And the TT community has declared it is decidedly anti-panty. But! It also has a lot of really good humor, parody and satire. It definitely has a lot of crossover appeal - I've gotten several people who normally don't like manga to start reading it. Oddly enough, it seems like the people I know who like it the least are manga fans, so I don't know what that says.

Fullmetal Alchemist is pretty solid, and I've always loved Ranma, but neither of those are exactly obscure.

Figure Four
02-07-2009, 01:02 PM
I also read Devil Man recently, which was... terrible. It started out as passable trash, until it started in on this, "Look what's become of humanity! We're just like the devils!" Also, how much of manga's drive to serve up as much nude fan service as possible can be attributed to Go Nagai?

See, you've just invalidated any other suggestions you might make.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7952/1890489436zl9.jpg

Devilman > Everything Else.

Zef
02-07-2009, 01:10 PM
Among the ones I've read, personally (haven't gotten to Full Metal Alchemist, Jojo's Adventure, or Mushishi, for instance)...

The Good & Worth Making Time For:
Azumanga Daioh! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azumanga_Daioh) and Yotsuba&! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yotsuba%26!). I think these two are no-brainers.
Planetes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetes). The anime is excellent and one of the best representatives of the medium, but the manga is just so much better.
Monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_(manga)). Ditto.
Phoenix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_(manga)). The only regret I have about Phoenix is that Tezuka died before completing it. Otherwise, you're doing yourself a great disservice by not reading it RIGHT NOW.
Chrono Crusade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrono_Crusade). A very good shonen-style action/adventure series. It does a wonderful job with its mythology and characterization, and the ending is superb (unlike the gut-punching animated version.)
Trigun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigun)and Trigun Maximum. Just watch out for some confusing artwork, since it's often detailed beyond human comprehension. There's also more than a little Ho (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HoYay)/Foe Yay (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FoeYay).
Udon's Street Fighter manga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_Fighter#Japanese_comics), including Sakura Ganbaru! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakura_Ganbaru), Ryu Final, and Street Fighter Alpha. The latter is a stock-standard shonen fighting series, but it's good. The other two, though, are very well written, funny, and (in Ryu Final's case) there's a dreamlike quality to the action sequences. And it makes Sagat into a good guy! Just read them in order: Alpha, Sakura, then Final.
Ranma 1/2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranma_%C2%BD). Bias alert! Your mileage may vary.
Mermaid Saga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mermaid_Saga). IMO, Takahashi's best and finest. Funny how that works, since this is a drama/horror series, and she's best known for romantic comedies.
One-Pound Gospel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Pound_Gospel). Speaking of romantic comedies, this one is second only to...
Maison Ikkoku (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maison_Ikkoku). Reading this straight through really makes you witness Takahashi's growth as a dramatic writer. Shame she hasn't done anything like this lately.
Violinist of Hameln (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violinist_of_Hameln). Funny, astonishingly epic, hilarious, dramatic, absurd, and heart-breaking. Sometimes within the same page! Tchaikovsky Punch!
Neon Genesis Evangelion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_(manga)). No, really! Better than the anime by miles.
Gimmick! (http://www.popcultureshock.com/reviews/manga-review-gimmick-vol-1/) Not to be confused with Hot Gimmick. This one is about an enthusiastic makeup/SFX master and the Detective Conan-like mysteries that he gets into.
Hell Teacher Nube (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_Teacher_N%C5%ABb%C4%93). It's unbelievable, if not downright criminal, that this hasn't been licensed or even scanlated.

The Entertaining Time Wasters:
Urusei Yatsura (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urusei_Yatsura). Scattershot comedy, but I like most of if anyhow (even if the anime IS a better adaptation.) Bad, bad Viz for not finishing it.
Rumic World (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumic_World) (and 1 Or W.) I get the feeling that Takahashi works best with small vignettes and human drama. Her early work is also much better at comedy, though YMMV (again.)
Death Note (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Note). I know you know I know they know you know I wanted them to know he knows you knew it was just as planned. Did you know gods of death like apples?
Blue Dragon RalΩGrad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dragon_Ral%CE%A9Grad). By the same artist as Death Note (and it shows!) It's an interesting, alternate take on the concept of Shadows from the original video game, with a fairly standard "travel the world, defeat the Big Bad" quest setting.
Video Girl Ai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Girl_Ai). It's the side-characters that make this. The Magical Girlfriend angle, at least, is handled better than similar stories, and it helps that the characters are all deeply flawed. (And, unlike Oh My Goddess!, it ends.)
Street Fighter II manga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_Fighter_II_(manga)). From a different author than the other manga, still reasonably good if you're a fan of the games. The last volume gets weird with the clone fighters, though.
Saint Seiya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Seiya). The ultimate "hot-blooded youth!" fighting manga series. Kurumada has a bit of a fixation on beautiful teenagers as warriors, though.
Midori Days (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midori_Days). Speaking of Magical Girlfriends, this one is so absurd as to make the concept fresh again. The characters are also charming despite being a bunch of stereotypes.
Claymore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claymore_(manga)). Standard fantasy fare, with a hefty dose of Ancient Conspiracies and Superpowered Evil Sides. Very good art, too.
Pumpkin Scissors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpkin_Scissors). Take the above description, and replace "fantasy fare" with "military action." The main leads are surprisingly complex characters, evolving with nearly every chapter.
Cromartie High (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromartie_High_School). Read it. I can't describe it accurately, no matter how hard I try.

The Good God Why Did I waste Money On These:
Battle Royale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Royale_(manga)). I really like the movie. I love the book. The manga is so incredibly disturbing and the artwork is horrifying, inserting explicit gore and sex purely for shock value. Ugh.
Shadow Star (Narutaru) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Star). Hey an interesting deconstruction of "collectible monsters" series wow this is deeper than I th-- OH GOD OH GOD WHAT DID THEY JUST DO TO THAT GIRL OH GOD I'M HAVING NIGHTMARES.
Dark Horse's The Ring (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_(film)#Sequels_and_adaptations) and The Grudge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ju-on) manga. Really, why did I waste money on these? Never mind the artwork, the translation is horrible.

Edit: Makkuro has permission to tar and feather me for forgetting Nausicaa, especially since it's my third favorite manga of all time.

Wolfgang
02-07-2009, 01:18 PM
Oh, yeah, Midori Days is pretty awesome, too. Weird, very, very weird, but funny.

Makkara
02-07-2009, 01:19 PM
It's kind of silly that the thread has gone on for this long without anyone mentioning Nausicaš (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausica%C3%A4_of_the_Valley_of_the_Wind_(manga)). Because, seriously, that is the best manga.

Dizzy
02-07-2009, 01:39 PM
Death Note (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Note). I know you know I know they know you know I wanted them to know he knows you knew it was just as planned. Did you know gods of death like apples?

I want to read this because it looks so cool, but I imagine the story has already become so voluminous that it would cost me all my gold coins to read them.

:o

Battle Royale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Royale_(manga)). I really like the movie. I love the book. The manga is so incredibly disturbing and the artwork is horrifying, inserting explicit gore and sex purely for shock value. Ugh.


Now, now. You had it coming. Both movie and book are nothing but shock.

I suppose The World is Mine should not be suggested because it's like Battle Royale.

Wolfgang
02-07-2009, 01:44 PM
I want to read this because it looks so cool, but I imagine the story has already become so voluminous that it would cost me all my gold coins to read them.

On one hand, yes. On the other, it's over, so you at least have a finite number of books to read.

MikeDinosaur
02-07-2009, 02:07 PM
See, you've just invalidated any other suggestions you might make.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7952/1890489436zl9.jpg

Devilman > Everything Else.

Maybe I should revise my statement that it starts out as passable trash. It starts out as pretty good trash, but seriously, I'm not that interested in Go Nagai's devil-satire of the military industrial complex. It's silly.

I just downloaded the Nausicaa manga on accident, thinking it was the anime. Is it better?

KCar
02-07-2009, 02:13 PM
I just downloaded the Nausicaa manga on accident, thinking it was the anime. Is it better?

First of all - Talking Time etiquette forbids speaking of downloading, and Nausicaa is well worth having in book form.

As for better, well... it`s different from the anime, and it`s a much fuller story. However, it is very different in tone and scope. The anime is fantastic, and the manga is also incredibly fantastic. I`d give the book the edge, but it`s super close, and sort of a case of "apples and oranges," although the stories are very similar (the manga starts of quite similarly, but expands and goes quite a bit further than the anime).

Also, the ending to the manga is somewhat controversial. It's an excellent finish to the story, but it's not as... innocent as you'd expect from film Miyazaki. It's been observed that his fantasy manga (this and some earlier illustrated novel thing) feel much darker than his films.

Zef
02-07-2009, 02:20 PM
Now, now. You had it coming. Both movie and book are nothing but shock.

The movie, arguably, but while the deaths are abundant, only two or three have any gore at all, and even those are nowhere near as graphic as in the manga. And its message sits on the forefront at all times --American action movies are far more violent, with far less to talk about. It's just the age of the targets of BR's violence that make it uncomfortable.

In the novel's case, I guess my imagination is less gruesome than the manga artist's. I certainly don't see flayed skin and bursting eyeballs and teeth flying everywhere when someone gets shot in the head. Or maybe the descriptions are less explicit. Mitsuko's death in the manga takes this to such an extreme, it's downright stupid.

I just downloaded the Nausicaa manga on accident, thinking it was the anime. Is it better?

Like you wouldn't believe. This doesn't make the movie any less of a milestone, mind.

It's ironic that Miyazaki didn't want to write the manga, but was more or less forced to in order to publicize the movie. His changing views on religion and society also make it a fascinating read, as his (and Nausicaa's) ideals evolve throughout the narrative. The Ohmu's Dream is one of my favorite sequences in sequential art.

Parish
02-07-2009, 02:20 PM
Everybody derdes Sgt. Frog, but that's only because nobody's ever read it, and they'd heard it sometimes depicts panties. And the TT community has declared it is decidedly anti-panty. But! It also has a lot of really good humor, parody and satire. It definitely has a lot of crossover appeal - I've gotten several people who normally don't like manga to start reading it. Oddly enough, it seems like the people I know who like it the least are manga fans, so I don't know what that says.
Yeah, actually not true. I enjoyed Sgt. Frog for about three volumes before I realized that every book was the same stupid routine of Gundam ads spliced with light sexual exploitation of a 14-year-old. Ell oh ell. Such hilarity. I held on until about vol. 10 hoping it would eventually make good on its potential, but the creator was content to go for the easy money.

Also, I have to go against the Trigun recommendations. The anime was amusing in a "hey guys check out my Rurouni Kenshin/Wild Arms crossover fanfic" kind of way, but the manga is a mess. Dude can't draw action scenes to save his life. People face off, and five pages later someone is dead, but good luck figuring out why. For a series as action-heavy as this, that's a crime. If you want good cogent-yet-artistic action scenes, try Blade of the Immortal (which has shamefully gone unmentioned throughout this thread).

liquid
02-07-2009, 02:27 PM
I suppose The World is Mine should not be suggested because it's like Battle Royale.
Except that, unlike Battle Royale, The World is Mine is really fucking good.


Be sure to check out Nana, which is one of the best shoujo series out there. I don't think I've ever actually found a negative review of it.

And if you're looking for more shoujo, Skip Beat is a fun series about a girl attempting to become an actress. Most importantly, this doesn't star your typical namby-pamby milquetoast doormat shoujo heroine. Mess with Kyoko and she will fucking cut you. With her amazing acting. It's a goddamn shoujo apocalypse.

Finally, Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou is one of the best comics ever made (http://www.tcj.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=430&Itemid=70&limit=1&limitstart=2). READ IT.

Reinforcements
02-07-2009, 02:29 PM
On Sgt. Frog - I'm less against panties and more against spending about a quarter of the time on naked Gundam ads. That's "naked" as in "blatant" not... yeah.

If you're a fan of the Fullmetal Alchemist anime, the manga is worth a look. It starts off mostly the same but starts to seriously diverge around the point where the main characters meet Greed.

Death Note is ridiculous, but definitely worth reading at least up to the big break in the story, after which it kinda goes off the rails.

Law of Ueki is absolutely incredible. The story is this - a society of beings called "celestials" is having a contest to decide their new king. Each of one hundred candidates picks a junior high student on Earth and gives them one magic power, and the kids fight single-elimination style until one is left (it's not a tournament, though, it's up to the kids to find each other). The thing that makes this already crazy premise great is the powers themselves, which generally take the form of "turn X into Y but (sometimes) only when Z". So you have a character who can turn his forehead into diamond, but only while his hands are in his pockets, etc. It's totally off the wall and totally great.

[edit] - I want to point out that I totally posted this without seeing Parish's reply (re - Sgt. Frog). Also he is right about both Trigun and Blade of the Immortal.

DiGiKerot
02-07-2009, 02:30 PM
Don't know if you people ever heard of it, but Yotsuba&! is pretty good.

It's actually going to be back in print in the US soon as well, thanks to Yen Press saving it from the purgatory of ADVs manga department.

liquid
02-07-2009, 02:32 PM
It's actually going to be back in print in the US soon as well, thanks to Yen Press saving it from the purgatory of ADVs manga department.
What?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

Zef
02-07-2009, 02:36 PM
What?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

Especially the "Yen Press" thing!

If Javier Lopez doesn't helm the translation, I'm going to be very very sad. :( But translated Yotsuba&! is better than no Yotsuba&! at all!

DiGiKerot
02-07-2009, 02:36 PM
What?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

News fresh out of Comic Con (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-02-07/yen-press-adds-spice-and-wolf-yotsuba&crescent-moon), apparently.

Dhroo
02-07-2009, 02:36 PM
Blade of the Immortal

yesssss

The plot has admittedly slowed down a bit over the past few volumes, but it is picking back up. And oh god the art

Kishi
02-07-2009, 02:36 PM
If you want good cogent-yet-artistic action scenes, try Blade of the Immortal (which has shamefully gone unmentioned throughout this thread).

Blade of the Immortal is great. It's kind of crazy how great it is.


Hajime no Ippo is also a winner. I get the feeling it hits a lot of the same notes as any other sports manga, but the fights are both well-drawn and well-written, and the sizable cast is almost uniformly likable. The only downside is that the only way to read it in English is filthy piracy.

Reinforcements
02-07-2009, 02:36 PM
It's actually going to be back in print in the US soon as well, thanks to Yen Press saving it from the purgatory of ADVs manga department.
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?

nadia
02-07-2009, 02:41 PM
Mushishi. Moo Shii Shii.

King of Thorns is pretty badass.

This, too.

The Good God Why Did I waste Money On These:
Battle Royale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Royale_(manga))

Battle Royale was the first manga I bought with my own money. I got up to volume two before I realised it was a whole bunch of fighting and fucking for the sake of shock value. The localisation wasn't done particularly well, either. I liked the movie a lot better.

I kind of like Song of the Hanging Sky. The artwork is very pretty, and I like the concept of a birdman race that's only capable of flying throughout childhood.

Oh, and please consider Me and the Devil Blues, a manga about the "life" of bluesman Robert Johnson. Pretty fantastic.

I also adored Hotel Africa, though I think I'm alone here. I like Hee Jung Park's work, all told.

nunix
02-07-2009, 02:45 PM
First: Obligitory "comics are duuuuuumb."

Second: GUNNM/Battle Angel. Shame on Parish for not getting to it first.

Third: Challenge: name some series that are a) good, and b) less than 10 volumes. Bonus points if less than 5. I cannot get interested in 20+ volume series that are still ongoing. Your shit is not that interesting to read, author guy.

Wolfgang
02-07-2009, 02:48 PM
Yeah, actually not true. I enjoyed Sgt. Frog for about three volumes before I realized that every book was the same stupid routine of Gundam ads spliced with light sexual exploitation of a 14-year-old. Ell oh ell. Such hilarity. I held on until about vol. 10 hoping it would eventually make good on its potential, but the creator was content to go for the easy money.


But then, that is not actually true, so, shrug. I've read the whole series up to now and never read anything into the Gundam schtick past "it's something that pathetic nerds do", which adds to the parody/humor. Seeing it as blatant advertising is a pretty surface-level way of looking at it. The whole point is that Keroro never gets around to doing his work because he spends all his time playing with models, and it's not seen as a good thing. I guess you could say the story is trying to infer that because of Gundam models the world hasn't been taken over by cartoon frogs, but that's a bit of a stretch. I got something different out of it.

As far as the sexual exploitation, how is it different from everything that has ever come from Japan albeit much more mildly? At least it's not, say, I''s. I gave the first volume of that a shot after a friend said they liked Video Girl Ai and, ugh. Now that is objectionable.

nadia
02-07-2009, 02:48 PM
Oh hey, the first English volume of Pluto should be out soon!

Everybody needs to read Pluto.

Everybody.

Working with that thought, I have heard brilliant things about 20th Century Boys.

liquid
02-07-2009, 02:51 PM
Third: Challenge: name some series that are a) good, and b) less than 10 volumes. Bonus points if less than 5. I cannot get interested in 20+ volume series that are still ongoing. Your shit is not that interesting to read, author guy.
Any manga published by Vertical (http://www.vertical-inc.com/books.html)?

Well, other than The Guin Saga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guin_Saga), obviously.

I think all of the manga that were published in Pulp (http://manga.about.com/od/mangamagazines/p/pulpmagazine.htm) were less than ten volumes.

Zef
02-07-2009, 02:57 PM
Third: Challenge: name some series that are a) good, and b) less than 10 volumes. Bonus points if less than 5. I cannot get interested in 20+ volume series that are still ongoing. Your shit is not that interesting to read, author guy.

Out of my list, Azumanga (4, or one huge omnibus,) Planetes (5,) Nausicaa (4 or 7, depending on the edition,) Mermaid Saga (4,) One-Pound Gospel (4,) Nakahira's Street Fighter manga (6 total,) Chrono Crusade (7,) and Midori Days (7, IIRC.) Death Note and Phoenix are 12 volumes. Rumic World volumes are completely standalone.

As far as the sexual exploitation, how is it different from everything that has ever come from Japan albeit much more mildly? At least it's not, say, I''s. I gave the first volume of that a shot after a friend said they liked Video Girl Ai and, ugh. Now that is objectionable.

Everything drawn by Katsura is objectionable, and VGAi (the first story) only gets a pass because its story and characterization are good enough to overcome his incredibly blatant ass-fetish. The last two VG stories, DNA2, I''s, and Shadow Lady are all in-your-face, creepy fanservice, and the less said about Zetman, the better.

Figure Four
02-07-2009, 03:01 PM
Someone get Vigour in here: I can't be the only Devilman defender in this thread.

On to the recommendations:

Berserk: Dude uses a sword as long as he is tall to slice demons in half. Also the artwork is gorgeous.

One Piece: The best shonen action series ever. End of discussion.

Golgo 13: ...

Vagabond: If you like samurai, action, or beautiful art you have to read this book. Seriously, Takehiko Inoue is a complete genius. Probably the best pure samurai series since Lone Wolf and Cub (which also comes recommended). Also, checkout Inoue's other series (both of which deal with basketball) Slam Dunk and Real.

nunix
02-07-2009, 03:05 PM
Berserk: Dude uses a sword as long as he is tall to slice demons in half. Also the artwork is gorgeous.

I almost recommended this for the "flashback" arc, but.. the anime is better for that (and has awesome crazy soundtrack). The rest of Berserk is all ultraviolence and demon rape. There might be an interesting story in there, but I was too turned off to go looking.

Kishi
02-07-2009, 03:16 PM
Vagabond is a fictionalized account of the life and times of Miyamoto Musashi, starting from when he was a snot-nosed nobody and gradually building the story of how he learned the esoteric Art of swordsmanship and became the greatest badass in Japanese history. And the artwork is absolutely gorgeous.

Still true!


Death Note and Phoenix are 12 volumes.

Death Note is only six and a half volumes if you know better.

liquid
02-07-2009, 03:17 PM
There are people here who don't like Devilman, Violence Jack, or Berserk?

What the hell, guys?

Pseudonym
02-07-2009, 04:00 PM
It's actually going to be back in print in the US soon as well, thanks to Yen Press saving it from the purgatory of ADVs manga department.

Yay! I hope they pick up where ADV left off. I do not want to wait!

I love Yakitate!! Japan so goddamn much. It's one of those manga where the characters are in constant contests, but it's bread baking contests! And the bread is so good people regularly flip out crazy style about it. Once the bread was so good people died!

I also really like the Pokemon Adventures manga (aka the one where an Arbok got cut in half in a battle). They only released the issues through the Yellow game in the US, but I've been able to get the other volumes in english from Singapore off of ebay. I like it enough to go to those extremes!

Pombar
02-07-2009, 04:15 PM
The Hour of the Mice is 2 volumes and entertaining. As mentioned before, Kurogane is 5 and also excellent.

But in general I tend to go for longer things.

MikeDinosaur
02-07-2009, 04:31 PM
There are people here who don't like Devilman, Violence Jack, or Berserk?

What the hell, guys?

Again, I think there are things to appreciate about Devilman, and I sort of admire just how batshit insane Violence Jack is. I like Ninja Scroll (like, not love), I can enjoy violence, and I can look past cartoon sex, but I mean, the first issue of Violence Jack is all about some kind of traumatic kickball rape-hand-job session? Every girl is getting raped all the time? I like reading about what crazy things Go Nagai came up with, sort of, but when I actually have to see a dog rape a quadruple-amputee chick, I just have to step back and ask if there's something better I could be doing with my life.

Ample Vigour
02-07-2009, 04:47 PM
Someone get Vigour in here: I can't be the only Devilman defender in this thread.

You rang?

Even if you go beyond the sensational aspects (Satan has rockin' tits! Go Nagai will kill both kids and pets!) Devilman is just good comics. Go Nagai knows just how much time he can spend inside Akira's head without wrecking his balls-out pacing. At times, his pencilwork visibly strains to explode off the page (check out some of the later transformation sequences, when Devilman is less an action hero than some cthonic nightmare force.)

The only bad thing I can find in Devilman is that later mangaka learned the wrong lessons from his gonzo style. When you look at a six-thousand volume blood-and-tits title like Gantz, you're seeing something that has more in common with One Piece than Devilman. Devilman took a shit on commercial viability and editorial control so Go Nagai could see how far he'd take a superhero title (and was rewarded;) it's a pity that so many later creators only saw that tits and blood equal mazoola in the bank.

I guess you either like that kind of thing or you don't.

Moving on, I've recently discovered an unlicensed title called Vinland Saga, done by Makoto Yukimura, the same dude who gave us Planetes. He serves up equal portions of historically accurate horror (if you have no stomach for mass rape and murder, fucking avoid this) and his own pathologically unsentimental brand of theistic humanism.

It's about the rise of Canute as told through the eyes of a company of Dane mercenaries, including its ruthless-yet-sympathetic captain and a deeply traumatized teenager who lives only to kill him. Historical figures such as Leif Erikson and Thorkell the Tall play backup.

My love of Hajime no Ippo is well documented. If you're not reading this, you'd better have a damn good reason.

Special Achievement for Unintentional Hilarity EDIT: The best worst manga I have ever read is the various incarnations of Grappler Baki. I got introduced to this series through the batshit insane business practices of Gutsoon! Entertainment, and I was hooked early. Hanma Baki is the illegitimate product of the union between a business magnate and the world's single most dangerous organism, which just so happens to be a Japanese martial artist name Yuujiro. Big Y, as I call him, is too strong to be killed by bullets, age or the Hantavirus. At one point Baki speculates that his dad could even beat HIV with his karate.

Yuujiro is one of the less fantastic characters in Grappler Baki. There's also the British assassin who has a turbocharger in his heart, Che Guevara, a caveman named Pickle and a kung fu master over 140 years old.

The "best" story moment? When Muhammad Ali, Jr. is punished for his attempts to steal away Baki's yamatonadeshiko girlfriend by being subjected to horrific beatings at the hands of three main characters. Then his dad beats him up.

Zodar
02-07-2009, 05:02 PM
yeah, vinland saga is as burly as hell, a dude punches a horse off the ground

read it

Ample Vigour
02-07-2009, 05:06 PM
burly as hell

That's a phrase with legs. I feel I shall appropriate it.

Kirin
02-07-2009, 05:27 PM
I love me some good manga, but I don't have time to write essays right now, so here's a quick list of things I think are Good, on no order:

Mushishi. Nausicaa. Battle Angel Alita. Victorian Romance Emma.
Yotsuba&. Planetes. Maison Ikkoku. Here Is Greenwood.
Eden. Blade of the Immortal.

Bonus guilty pleasures: Urusei Yatsura, Ah My Goddess, Genshiken.

Figure Four
02-07-2009, 05:30 PM
I love me some Grappler Baki. How can you not love a series where the main character spends an entire volume fighting an imaginary, man-sized preying mantis? Favorite moment? After all the build up to the Ali Jr. and Baki fight it ends with a single swift kick to the balls.

Some fan translation recommendations:

Anything by Mitsuru Adachi: Why haven't any of his series been brought over? (Yes I know Viz brought out two short story collections but that was years ago and they're out of print.) Adachi's stories almost always deal with a High School boy, a girl he likes, and his sport of choice (Baseball most often). Adachi rises above the cliches of his plots with deft characterization and great art (especially his layouts). Just go download the first few volumes of H2 (http://www.mangascreener.com/project.php?id=34), you won't regret it.

Worst: (http://delinquent-manga.nyaatorrents.org/?page_id=44) I'm only a couple volumes into this one but I'm already hooked. It's the story of high school toughs punching the hell out of each other but it's paced more like a Yakuza film than a Shonen fight series. The art is clean and the designs (both characters and clothing) are very good.

Witches: (http://www.mangascreener.com/project.php?id=91) Oh God, so pretty! A series of short, dreamlike and, as mentioned, gorgeously illustrated stories about witches and magic. Highly recommended.

UnChocolate
02-07-2009, 05:31 PM
Man I got here late. Oh well, here's some of my recommendations that I haven't seen mentioned yet:

Bakuman: ongoing shonen manga about two kids trying to make it big drawing shonen manga.
Tsukihime: superb adaptation of the game. Still ongoing, only up to 7 volumes I believe.
Hellsing: Gun porn and great artwork. Vampires and nazis doing crazy shit. 9 volumes and ongoing.
Hidamari Sketch: slice-of-life 4koma of people going (X'____'). 4 volumes and ongoing.
Maison Ikkoku: yea it was mentioned already, but it's that good. 15 volumes.

Edit: Damn, almost forgot Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. Even though it only really gets on its legs starting with Part 3, this is pretty much the only long-running "muscle-y men" kind of shonen series I enjoy. And by long-running, I mean 63 volumes and ongoing.

demonkoala
02-07-2009, 06:20 PM
One Piece: The best shonen action series ever. End of discussion.


Air Gear
20th Century boys

Parish
02-07-2009, 06:26 PM
As far as the sexual exploitation, how is it different from everything that has ever come from Japan albeit much more mildly? At least it's not, say, I''s. I gave the first volume of that a shot after a friend said they liked Video Girl Ai and, ugh. Now that is objectionable.
"Other series have been even more horrible" is not really a strong defense. "But officer! Other people were going way faster than me!"

I would personally posit that seeing the Gundam thing in Sgt. Frog as mere satire is the surface reading, since that's how I took it initially. It wasn't until I noticed just how consistently, blatant and pervasive it was over the course of the series, and how much cross-merchandising between the two series there is in Japan, that I realized it was actually a deeply cynical form of advertising.

dussssstin
02-07-2009, 06:27 PM
death note

Figure Four
02-07-2009, 06:31 PM
Air Gear
No.


20th Century boys
Not a shonen action series.

Bongo Bill
02-07-2009, 06:32 PM
Cromartie High (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromartie_High_School). Read it. I can't describe it accurately, no matter how hard I try.
It is amazing.

demonkoala
02-07-2009, 06:41 PM
Not a shonen action series.
I was just making additional suggestions while agreeing on Onepiece.

Alex Scott
02-07-2009, 07:29 PM
Everybody derdes Sgt. Frog, but that's only because nobody's ever read it, and they'd heard it sometimes depicts panties.
I dunno, I followed it for about 14 volumes, and finally just got bored with it. Actually, I only got the 14th volume because Books-a-Million was having a 3-for-2 sale. I think I got it with Honey and Clover and Sand Chronicles.
Bonus guilty pleasures: Genshiken.
This is a guilty pleasure?

Also, I learned the great news about Yen Press and Yotsuba&! about half an hour ago. Which would happen right after I get caught up through the scans!

mr_bungle700
02-07-2009, 07:53 PM
The last two manga series I finished were 20th Century Boys, which I liked enough to merit the creation of a thread on this very forum, and Living Game, which was a sweet story about a young couple trying to make a living in the post-bubble economy of early 90s Japan. Both were good! 20th Century Boys is just on the verge of coming out in the U.S., so get it while it's hot!

A lot of the other stuff I would recommend is already in this thread, so yeah. I really think everyone should read Nausicaa though, so that gets another nod from me. And Yotsuba&!. And Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou, but that will never, ever get published here.

Parish
02-07-2009, 08:05 PM
OK, so instead of just quibbling with others' choices, here's what I have on my shelves. I've owned far more manga than this, but after whittling down my collection these were the essentials:

- Urusei Yatsura super-jumbo collected volumn
- Battle Angel Alita & Last Order
- Azumanga Daioh
- Short Cuts
- Akira
- Nausicaa
- Strider Hiryu
- Golgo-13

Actually, I don't know that those are the essentials, just ones I kept for whatever reason. I got rid of a several books I didn't really want to give up. If you have shelf space and money, I recommend these as well:

- Maison Ikkoku
- Blade of the Immortal
- Appleseed 1 & 2
- Dominion: Tank Police 1 & 2
- Welcome to the NHK
- Cromartie High School

Series whose incomplete-in-English status annoys me:

- Urusei Yatsura
- Legend of Mother Sarah
- Yotsuba&!

Figure Four
02-07-2009, 08:09 PM
I was just making additional suggestions while agreeing on Onepiece.

Oh, sorry: I thought you were quibbling about One Piece's status as the greatest shonen series.

Air Gear and 20th Century Boys are both great as well.

Al Baron
02-07-2009, 08:21 PM
Air GearMan, even with JOHN OMAHA in it, I don't know. Hell of a lot better than all of the US Comic cameos so far, though that isn't saying much.

Also, Welcome to the NHK was depressing. D:

estragon
02-07-2009, 08:43 PM
- Akira
- Nausicaa

Actually, I don't know that those are the essentials, just ones I kept for whatever reason.

Those plus also 20th Century Boys are definitely the essentials.

On a related note, the new volume of Pluto comes out this month! Unfortunately, I inadvertantly spoiled a major part of the story by flipping through the magazine it's serialized in while in a Ramen shop. If I had remembered that Pluto was in that magazine I never would have opened it. Ah well. If anything knowing the spoiler just makes me more excited to figure out why the hell that happened.

Al Baron
02-07-2009, 08:47 PM
Question: Is Pluto done? Also, when is his new manga coming out?

estragon
02-07-2009, 08:57 PM
Question: Is Pluto done? Also, when is his new manga coming out?

I don't know if the next volulme is the last one or not, but I avoid that sort of information. It seems like it could end soon though. When the final volume of Death Note came out I didn't realize it had already ended in serialization until a friend who reads jump accidentally mentioned it.

BILLY BAT (http://kc.kodansha.co.jp/content/top.php/KA00000190) has been serialized since last October, but there's no tankobon yet and I don't follow manga magazines anymore. I honestly don't know much about it. It seems like some kind of a spin on American classic comic characters, but I don't know what it's like.

Mightyblue
02-07-2009, 09:43 PM
I almost recommended this for the "flashback" arc, but.. the anime is better for that (and has awesome crazy soundtrack). The rest of Berserk is all ultraviolence and demon rape. There might be an interesting story in there, but I was too turned off to go looking.Er, quite definitely on the violence, but the rape thing was only at the end of the flashback arc when Griffin went all demon and Guts went nuts.

Heh.

Ample Vigour
02-07-2009, 09:57 PM
I AM AMPLE VIGOUR

You got good taste in comics about guys punching one another in the mouth. Worst is equal parts yakuza movie and Romance of the Three Kingdoms. You have guys uniting under charismatic warlords and giving speeches about the nature of true bravery and honor. Then you have entire chapters spent waiting for someone to finish taking a shit. Shonen Champion, how I love your taste in series.

I can't say I love Baki so much as I can't tear my eyes away from it. It's a trainwreck of hellish art, bizzaro writing and pacing so uneven that I'm certain the writers simply forget entire story arcs.

Who am I kidding? I love that shit.

Ample Vigour
02-07-2009, 09:58 PM
Er, quite definitely on the violence, but the rape thing was only at the end of the flashback arc when Griffin went all demon and Guts went nuts.

Don't forget the sultan who populates his army entirely with halfbreeds born from his demon rape factory.

EDIT: Doublepost. Yuck.

Badinage
02-07-2009, 10:00 PM
I should really get back to Battle Angel Alita. I haven't read past Volume 5. And that was...back in 2005? :(

Dhroo
02-07-2009, 10:09 PM
Don't forget the sultan who populates his army entirely with halfbreeds born from his demon rape factory.

Or, you know, the troll rape orgy during the arc where they're defending that village.

Or the part in the flashback where Wyald rapes a girl and then throws her impaled corpse at Guts.

And that's just the non-consensual stuff!

Abominable K
02-07-2009, 10:10 PM
Late reply, but I'm another one on the anti-Trigun bandwagon. I kept with it for 6 volumes thinking for some reason that Nightow was just inexperienced and he would improve with time, but somehow the panel layouts managed to get worse as it went along. It's a shame too, because I like his artwork.

Ghost in the Shell might not be better than Stand-Alone Complex, but I'd say it's still worth a read. Stay away from Man-Machine Interface though, it's actually less readable than Trigun.

Badinage
02-07-2009, 10:27 PM
Oh yes, how could I have forgotten Ghost in the Shell. Still need to read 1.5. ...And Shirow's other stuff.

Not sure how well this has aged over time, but I do remember Real Bout High School being at least a fun little diversion. Though I was in 8th and 9th grade when I was reading it, and haven't looked at it since.

Ample Vigour
02-07-2009, 10:29 PM
Real Bout High School

Wretched. And the anime managed to be even worse.

dwolfe
02-07-2009, 10:34 PM
Recommendations of only things not mentioned so far (that I saw, barring ninja-edits or my own negligence):
Kimagure Orange Road (Mason Ikkuku-era stuff)
Monster (from the guy who did 20th Century Boys)
Akira (at least it's much more intelligible than the movie)
Sexy Voice and Robo (short!, I think it was left unfinished though)

Kishi
02-07-2009, 10:36 PM
If the Orange Road manga is half as dumb as the anime, I'd say avoid it.

Healy
02-07-2009, 10:49 PM
If the Orange Road manga is half as dumb as the anime, I'd say avoid it.

What's your main beef with the show?

Malefor
02-07-2009, 10:53 PM
Stuff I don't think most people have mentioned:
Fruits Basket
Hikaru No Go
Kare Kano (first 12 volumes for sure, after that it slips a little)
Neon Genesis Evangelion: Angelic Days
Short Program

Stuff that bears repeating:
Azumanga Daioh
Blade of the Immortal
Honey & Clover
Nausicaa
Neon Genesis Evangelion (non-Angelic Days)

Endless Yet Amusing Shonen/Shojo manga:
Bleach
Naruto (really!)
Love * Com (this one might just be me)
Skip Beat

Kishi
02-07-2009, 11:01 PM
What's your main beef with the show?

The protagonist is torn inextricably between a troubled but beautiful badass and an bitchy, clingy genki-girl with an ugly haircut. Even given numerous opportunities and nearly fifty episodes to make the obvious choice, he still mutters "Uh well gosh I dunno" and resolves nothing.

Also, there's a whole ongoing sub-plot about him having super powers that he needs to hide at all costs, which also never goes anywhere other than tovoccasionally set up some wacky predicaments. It's not like he even needs a secret identity to protect his loved ones, either, since his entire family has the same powers. There's no real reason for all the tension -- except that Japanese society hates anyone who's different, I guess.

Badinage
02-07-2009, 11:04 PM
Wretched. And the anime managed to be even worse.

Haha. I remember seeing some of the anime. And had to wonder how they got...that.

These days I've gotten more selective with manga, and it's a shame the ones I read and/or look for don't seem widely available in Borders or Barnes and Noble. Yes, Tezuka's Buddha is in Barnes and Noble, though after a while they don't seem to really have the volumes I look for. Hopefully one of them carries 20th Century Boys when it hits the U.S.

Al Baron
02-07-2009, 11:10 PM
Endless Yet Amusing Shonen/Shojo manga:

SasukeFixed.

Unless they've been giving the titular character more page time since last year.

Mightyblue
02-07-2009, 11:25 PM
Oh yeah. Shit hath happened in the last two months.

Posaune
02-07-2009, 11:31 PM
I absolutely love Cromartie High School as the super serious tough guy art just makes the situations even funnier.

Isn't the translation of Cromartie also incomplete?

tungwene
02-07-2009, 11:33 PM
Third: Challenge: name some series that are a) good, and b) less than 10 volumes. Bonus points if less than 5. I cannot get interested in 20+ volume series that are still ongoing. Your shit is not that interesting to read, author guy.1. Real; Takehiko Inoue's gritty sports manga about wheelchair basketball. WHEELCHAIR BASKETBALL!; 8 volumes and ongoing.

2. Kurosagi Corpse Delivery Service; Unemployed buddhist university graduates find unclaimed corpses, commune with them and grant their last requests while extorting them for money; 9 volumes and ongoing

3. Ooku; Fumi Yoshinaga's post-apocalyptic gender relations masterpiece set in an AU shogunate era Japan where a plague has wiped out most of the male population; 4 volumes and ongoing

4. Liar Game; imagine what Death Note would be like if Misa weren't as ditzy and Light wasn't a megalomanic sociopath; 7 volumes and ongoing

5. Detroit Metal City; A very shy and timid loser who's alter ego is the foul-mouthed lead singer of a death metal band; 6 volumes and ongoing

6. Children of the Sea; Scientists discover these two mer-children and placed in an aquarium where they're befriended by the daughter of one of the aquarium workers; 3 volumes and ongoing

7. Sexy Voice and Robo; She's a middle-school girl who works for a phone-dating service and wants to someday be a spy. He's a bumbling otaku and one of her clients. Together they fight crime!; 2 volumes on hiatus

8. Ohikkoshi; Samura's slice of life manga about aimless college students. Think of it as a much grittier Honey & Clover; 1 volume

9. The Embalmer; Main character's an embalmer working in Japan. Since most of Japan cremates the dead embalming is not a common practice so there's a lot of misunderstanding and discrimination towards people in that profession. Hey it's entertainment that is also educational; 4 volumes.

10. Astral Project; By the same author as Oldboy. About this guy who's trying to discover the mystery about his sister's death after an out of body experience happens to him when he listen to a jazz CD that she was listening to when she died and he meets other people that can roam around the astral plane; 4 volumes?

11. Paradise Kiss; Ai Yazawa's manga about a straight-laced high school student who falls in with a bunch of bohemian fashion design school students who convince her to model stuff for them. It first ran in a women's fashion magazine I believe.; 5 volumes

And I'm cheatin' and stretching it a bit but feels these need mentioning:

12. Mushishi; ooh what a lovely article kirin has written about it (http://www.gamespite.net/toastywiki/index.php/Media/Mushishi); 10 volumes

13. Parasyte; alien parasites that can transform themselves into anything land on earth, infect the heads of humans and killing them, which make them look like normal human beings that can change their appearances or turn their heads into nightmarish monstrosities start killing and feeding off the human population in secret. Main character has a parasite that infected his right hand instead of his head so he's still alive and so is his parasite and they form an uneasy symbiotic relationship/alliance as both of them try not to get killed by both of the rest of their kinds; 10 volumes

14. After School Nightmare; main character is a hermaphrodite who's been living his life as a male though he encounters a big problem when he has his first period. He's enrolled in a special class where every week once a week where he shares a dream with the other students in his class in order to graduate where his secret is revealed in the most unpleasant manner possible all the while he's trying to reveal the secret identities of his classmates because he can't live with the thought of not knowing who knows his secret.; 10 volumes

I also second recommendations of Hour of the Mice (4 volumes), Song of the Hanging Sky (2? and ongoing), and Me and My Devil Blues (4 volumes and ongoing).

liquid
02-08-2009, 12:48 AM
Kare Kano (first 12 volumes for sure, after that it slips a little)
Man, this series starts off so, so great, and then just turns into standard shoujo slop.

Love * Com (this one might just be me)
No, Love * Com is really sweet and fun.

Anonymooo
02-08-2009, 01:14 AM
Unless they've been giving the titular character more page time since last year.Oh, they've done one better and made him into the main character again. As in, he's really the main character again.

Thinaran
02-08-2009, 01:40 AM
I bought all the I''s manga books and I regret nothing!

Other stuff that's made it into my shelves:

Battle Angel Alita: Last Order
Black Jack
Buddha
Cromartie
Death Note
Eagle
Eden: It's an Endless World
Kare Kano
Monster
Parasyte
Phoenix
Planetes
Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yotsuba&!

Makkara
02-08-2009, 02:27 AM
I just downloaded the Nausicaa manga on accident, thinking it was the anime. Is it better?

Much. But it deserves better than being read on a computer screen, it's not overly long, and the volumes should be easy to find.

nadia
02-08-2009, 02:30 AM
Death Note is only six and a half volumes if you know better.

Really, if you're going to get that far into Death Note, you may as well go all the way because the ending is fantastic. The anime condenses the second half of the series nicely, but it also fucks up the ending.

Stuff I don't think most people have mentioned:
Fruits Basket

Second'd. It's a shojo series, but there's a dark, compelling plot driving it.

If you want pure shojo for some reason though, I have a soft spot for My Heavenly Hockey Club.

Stuff that bears repeating:
Azumanga Daioh

Another series I need to polish off. I liked the anime well enough, but I find the manga is far better.

estragon
02-08-2009, 02:34 AM
Really, if you're going to get that far into Death Note, you may as well go all the way

Agreed. The 2nd part really jumps the shark near the very start with the hilariously bad Light's dad as Rambo schtick, where the plots were awful and the pacing indicated that they were going to drag the series on forever.

However, they recovered pretty damn well not too long after hitting rock bottom, probably because the horrible choices in the early parts of the second half forced them to find a way to end it quickly or risk killing the brand, which in turn made the story much better.

(Note that they weren't adverse to killing the brand, they just wanted to do it via live action L spin off movies rather than ruining the manga. I can't stand the actor who plays L.)

Kishi
02-08-2009, 02:48 AM
Really, if you're going to get that far into Death Note, you may as well go all the way because the ending is fantastic. The anime condenses the second half of the series nicely, but it also fucks up the ending.

The entire second half is terrible, including the ending. Especially the ending. Just about anything else would have been better than some snotty twelve-year-old coming out of nowhere to thoroughly drag both L and Light's names through the mud, ha ha, the end.

demonkoala
02-08-2009, 02:55 AM
Really, if you're going to get that far into Death Note, you may as well go all the way because the ending is fantastic. The anime condenses the second half of the series nicely, but it also fucks up the ending.


I will have to agree here. No one can dispute that the first part is the best part, but despite the horror that is the second part, at least I really liked the ending.

UnChocolate
02-08-2009, 04:28 AM
Eh, I wasn't a fan of the final twist, and N is a thoroughly unlikeable hooker.

dwolfe
02-08-2009, 06:47 AM
If the Orange Road manga is half as dumb as the anime, I'd say avoid it.

It's half as dumb, not twice as dumb, as the anime. Therefore it's actually MUCH BETTER than the anime.

Honestly, the anime was really really bad compared to the manga.

Less focus on the 'magic' power of the main guy and much, much more about a love triangle and him trying to do what he thinks is right. The power (teleportation as I recall) is mainly there as a plot device, an additional way to show how he tries to make everyone else happy at his own expense.

You have to understand, the 'cute and nice' blond girl that likes him idolizes the 'secretly nice bad girl' brunette and is her best friend. He can't dump the blond to date the brunette because he'd knowingly break a girl's heart and destroy a close friendship, AND still not get the brunette.

It's a no win situation.

Kishi
02-08-2009, 07:25 AM
That's a good way to put it, because I found it totally frustrating and unfulfilling. Thank god for Maison Ikkoku.

Wolf
02-08-2009, 07:37 AM
I haven't bought any manga in a couple of years, and my appetite for it has been kind of on the wane for a while, but a few titles really jump out in my mind:

- Battle Angel Alita
- Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
- Blade of the Immortal

Also, Parish:

- Strider Hiryu

Please, please tell me this is out in English. I have a fascination for the concept of Strider that I am not quite sure I can explain, but if this is in English, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

Kishi
02-08-2009, 07:50 AM
Sadly, it's not, and it's obscure enough that it probably never will be, officially. The Japanese version has been scanned in full (http://www.lscmainframe.net/features/manga/) in the hopes that it might get a fan translation, but apparently, it's proven too obscure for even that.

Mewd
02-08-2009, 08:46 AM
Osamu Tezuka's Buddha is REALLY good. And dizzyingly epic.

Parish
02-08-2009, 09:19 AM
Osamu Tezuka's Buddha is REALLY good. And dizzyingly epic.

Yeah, it probably goes without saying that anything by Tezuka is awesome. Adolf especially. It's all just so expansive -- personally, I don't have room for it. Otherwise I'd have myself a Tezuka library.

Wolf
02-08-2009, 09:30 AM
You know, now that I think about it, I'm kind of surprised nobody's mentioned anything by Leiji Matsumoto yet. I don't know how well his work is represented in the U.S., but I imagine somebody would have brought it up by now.

dwolfe
02-08-2009, 09:34 AM
You know, now that I think about it, I'm kind of surprised nobody's mentioned anything by Leiji Matsumoto yet. I don't know how well his work is represented in the U.S., but I imagine somebody would have brought it up by now.

This is because I've only seen a collection of Galaxy Express 999 once, many years ago, in a Barnes and Noble. I'd forgotten. Thank you for reminding me!

But seriously, it's just not out there on the shelves for some reason.

Edit: Amazon doesn't have any manga by him listed. Is the license to print money tied up somehow? It seems like an obvious winner.

Wolf
02-08-2009, 09:40 AM
I have a single volume of what seems to have been a new continuation of Galaxy Express 999 that I bought in 2001 or 2002, but I never got around to getting any more of it back then, which seems likely to have been a mistake on my part. I liked the one volume, but I don't really think it's enough for me to be able to form any very informed opinions about. And all I really know of the Leijiverse is the two Galaxy Express 999 movies (which I've not seen in years, since I recorded them from TV back in 1997; I no longer have a VCR, and haven't found them on DVD) and Harlock Saga, which I don't recall being quite as impressive.

I would love to find some of his manga, though.

Kirin
02-08-2009, 09:58 AM
One of the Matsumoto mangas (I think an old run of GE999) used to run in one of those compilation mags (I want to say Animerica Extra, but it could've been something else) that went out of print long ago. I haven't seen much of it around since then.

And I have to agree with what everyone else said about Trigun - I really have no idea why I'm still buying it, except that it's so close to the end now I figure I may as well see it through.

Also, Tungwene, your link to my article makes me warm and fuzzy.

Wolf
02-08-2009, 10:04 AM
I haven't followed Trigun past volume 3 of Maximum. I'm told it gets worse from there on in. I actually like Nightow's artwork, but the complaints I'm hearing here about his panel layouts... Yeah, probably not going to disagree with that.

Ample Vigour
02-08-2009, 10:51 AM
I actually like Nightow's artwork, but the complaints I'm hearing here about his panel layouts... Yeah, probably not going to disagree with that.

Nightow should just stick to doing character designs.

Or is there some Young King Hours editorial decree that demands its fight sequences be just on this end of incomprehensible? (Hellsing volume 9, I am looking in your direction!)

Anonymooo
02-08-2009, 11:01 AM
"Paint the town red," indeed. The ending of Hellsing felt very underwhelming, considering that I've watched DragonBall Z fights that were more engaging and interesting than Alucard vs. Anderson's final match. Also, Walther, what the hell?

Knight
02-08-2009, 11:01 AM
I like Trigun, but I have to agree that it's fight scenes are a pain in the ass to figure out what's going on. If manga was done in color I don't think it would be so bad.

tungwene
02-08-2009, 12:23 PM
I prefer the Death Note 2nd live action movie ending to either the manga/anime ending. If you had seen/read Death Note before watching the movie it played off your assumptions creatively.

Dizzy
02-08-2009, 01:26 PM
Death Note gives me Digimon vibes.

Ryuk resembles Devimon (http://ca.geocities.com/digi_josied3/images/Devimon.gif) and some other Digimon I'm sure, as well as the other Deathgods. The concept of a person being able to kill people by writing their names in a journal is like a darker twist on the "Gotta Catch 'Em All!" concept of Pokemon. Now it's, "Gotta Kill 'Em All!"

And almost like Digimon Tamers, there is a detective character trying to track down a kid who possesses magical powers--or rather, a magical Digimon!--although I'm sure you can trace this to other manga or anime stuff. All there needs to be is a super secret shadowy organization in cahoots with or trying to stop an ancient mythological being.

These are my impressions after reading the first two books in the series. I don't know if I want to continue.

nadia
02-08-2009, 02:19 PM
I prefer the Death Note 2nd live action movie ending to either the manga/anime ending. If you had seen/read Death Note before watching the movie it played off your assumptions creatively.

I was surprised how much I liked the live action movie! Then again, when you have CHAIRMAN KAGA! as Chief Yagami, you really can't go wrong.

Oh, my personal contribution to Cocked-Up Manga Adaptations of Decent Anime:

Read or Die.

Zef
02-08-2009, 08:04 PM
I kind of like Song of the Hanging Sky. The artwork is very pretty, and I like the concept of a birdman race that's only capable of flying throughout childhood.

Oh, and please consider Me and the Devil Blues, a manga about the "life" of bluesman Robert Johnson. Pretty fantastic.

I also adored Hotel Africa, though I think I'm alone here. I like Hee Jung Park's work, all told.

I just bought Song of the Hanging Sky. The artwork is fantastic (character designs based loosely on Native American tribes? Yes please!) Hopefully the writing will be just as good.

Who publishes those two others, and Mushishi? Looked and looked but couldn't find them.

Eh, I wasn't a fan of the final twist, and N is a thoroughly unlikeable hooker.

This is how I felt about Mello. Near didn't bother me as much because, every time he showed up, I'd remember the "American" names of his associates and break into giggles.

Yeah, it probably goes without saying that anything by Tezuka is awesome. Adolf especially. It's all just so expansive -- personally, I don't have room for it. Otherwise I'd have myself a Tezuka library.

I want to get Apollo, but I've heard... mixed reviews, to put it charitably. Dunno how I feel about that.

tungwene
02-08-2009, 09:36 PM
I just bought Song of the Hanging Sky. The artwork is fantastic (character designs based loosely on Native American tribes? Yes please!) Hopefully the writing will be just as good.

Who publishes those two others, and Mushishi? Looked and looked but couldn't find them.Mushishi and Me and my Devil Blues are published by Del Rey and Hotel Africa's by Tokyopop.

Kishi
02-08-2009, 09:52 PM
One of the Matsumoto mangas (I think an old run of GE999) used to run in one of those compilation mags (I want to say Animerica Extra, but it could've been something else) that went out of print long ago. I haven't seen much of it around since then.

GE999 used to run in Animerica proper, and Viz even got some volumes out (as Dwolfe mentioned). Unfortunately, it didn't last.

Aleanil
02-09-2009, 06:11 AM
I'm glad I took the time to read this thread... I hadn't known that Yotsuba&! had been picked up again. Woohoo! No more trying to puzzle through imported Chinese versions of the manga!

Edit: To stay more on topic with recommendations, I've read Monster, Azumanga Daioh, and Yotsuba&! (obviously) and loved 'em all. Also read Berserk, which was way too... well, Berserk-ish for me. It turned me off after struggling to read up to about volume 10. If you can enjoy the ultra-violence and demon rapes and wholesale slaughter of just about everything, it's great!

Series yet unmentioned: School Rumble and Great Teacher Onizuka. I enjoyed both of 'em quite a bit.

Anonymooo
02-09-2009, 08:23 AM
School Rumble kind of loses itself around its end, but for the first five to ten volumes it's a great Azumanga-like comedy.

GTO is awesome, but I'll always be partial to its prequel, Shonan Junai Gumi, which got released here as GTO: The Early Years. It's pretty much the quintessential delinquent comic, only it has a greater emphasis on being funny, and its whole story hook that being a tough guy and winning fights doesn't necessarily mean that you're a man.

Kishi
02-09-2009, 08:27 AM
The way Shonan Junai Gumi was marketed over here had me thinking it was a prequel made after GTO, but I was delighted to learn it actually started in 1991, when that particular strain of delinquency was still in vogue. I definitely need to track it down (that stuff is a personal passion (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=381302&postcount=65) of mine).

Nicholai
02-09-2009, 08:56 AM
My shelves:

Fullmetal Alchemist
Uzumaki

That's it. For over a year I had tried to give manga a good "buy one a month in order to not go broke" but my overwhelming action figure and superhero comic addictions has stopped me from picking up anything since the last new volume of Fullmetal. I've thought about starting a one a month again, but where to begin is the great question.

nadia
02-09-2009, 10:42 AM
Putting in another recommendation for Uzumaki. It's fucked up.

Kishi
02-09-2009, 10:48 AM
If you read Uzumaki, just look at the pictures. Reading the text will just make you aware that the author is at a pathetic, head-slapping loss to explain or justify any of the freaky crap you're seeing.

Dizzy
02-09-2009, 12:08 PM
I'm going to say don't read Uzumaki.

Don't even look at the pictures. Sick, twisted, fucked-upness does not equal great or scary. Uzumaki is not too disturbing. What I find disturbing about the entire project is the possibility that the author is suffering from some mental disorder that compels him to create as many variations of spirals as he can, and that people are willing to pay for and spread the word about this obsession instead of committing him.

And that ending...

Ample Vigour
02-09-2009, 04:56 PM
The way Shonan Junai Gumi was marketed over here had me thinking it was a prequel made after GTO, but I was delighted to learn it actually started in 1991, when that particular strain of delinquency was still in vogue. I definitely need to track it down (that stuff is a personal passion (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=381302&postcount=65) of mine).

Sukeban 4 LYFE

Pajaro Pete
02-09-2009, 05:12 PM
If you read Uzumaki, just look at the pictures. Reading the text will just make you aware that the author is at a pathetic, head-slapping loss to explain or justify any of the freaky crap you're seeing.

Well duh. He's a manga writer.

demonkoala
02-09-2009, 06:04 PM
The way Shonan Junai Gumi was marketed over here had me thinking it was a prequel made after GTO, but I was delighted to learn it actually started in 1991, when that particular strain of delinquency was still in vogue. I definitely need to track it down (that stuff is a personal passion (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=381302&postcount=65) of mine).
This is for you Kishi.
First off, there is a comedian from a few years back that goes by Sakurazuka Yakkun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loWfTFDFrUk&feature=related) (I apologize for lack of subtitles), and did his routines dressed as a sukeban.

Speaking of Sukeban...this is a random manga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukeban_Deka) that comes up, that I know nothing about.

While I'm at it, Kamikaze Girls (Shimotsuma Monogatari) has some good delinquent girl action...but I digress.

Finally, one of my favorite manga that I read when I was a kid was about a yankee girl. It was a shoujo and I have just barely recalled now. I can't remember the title though. It is somewhere along the lines of Tenka Tennyo (天下天女), but googling gets me nothing. I wish you luck on finding it, because it was a really good manga.

Anonymooo
02-09-2009, 07:06 PM
You're not thinking of Tenjou Tenge (天上天下), are you?

mr_bungle700
02-09-2009, 07:25 PM
Speaking of Sukeban...this is a random manga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukeban_Deka) that comes up, that I know nothing about.

It's a story about a girl who fights crime with a yo-yo, and that is awesome.

demonkoala
02-09-2009, 10:27 PM
You're not thinking of Tenjou Tenge (天上天下), are you?

I like Oh! Great, but alas no.

Kirin
02-10-2009, 05:42 AM
There are some live-action specials about the yo-yo wielding schoolgirl scrime fighter that are just awesome in their terribleness.

Makkara
02-10-2009, 05:52 AM
There are some live-action specials about the yo-yo wielding schoolgirl scrime fighter that are just awesome in their terribleness.

There's also a fairly recent live-action movie, which probably is too. Stylish cover, though:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Sukeban_Deka_2006.jpg/320px-Sukeban_Deka_2006.jpg

Odin
02-10-2009, 06:13 AM
There's also a fairly recent live-action movie, which probably is too. Stylish cover, though:


I actually went and saw that in the theatre. Good bad fun. It delivered on its promise for cartwheel-backflip-yo-yo ACTION in the final sequence. Also, everybody in the theatre gasped when we simultaneously realized that the shopping mall scene was filmed downstairs and halfway across the very mall we were sitting in!

I have nothing of substance to add to this thread, everything good that I've come across has already been mentioned. But seriously guys, go back and read the first arc of Dragon Ball, before it became Z. It's actually good because it had a heart and soul back then.

I actually borrowed Akira from a friend last week and am LOVING it.

Kishi
02-10-2009, 06:14 AM
That's Sukeban Deka. I can't speak for the recent film (for me, the appeal is deeply tied to the aesthetics of the '80s), but everything else is awesome in its awesomeness.

wahoninja
02-10-2009, 06:27 AM
Parasyte is wonderfully harrowing, a secret-alien-invasion story at its most grisly. Watching young Shinichi run around with an alien in his arm, fightin' off other aliens--it puts the same sense of dread in me that Walking Dead provides, where I leave an audible sigh of relief when a main character isn't brutally destroyed.

Vagabond is a sprawling samurai epic about one Miyamoto Musashi, slicin' up busters and being appropriately existential. I had the delirious good fortune to read the first 20 volumes over the course of three days. Having that much shit at once might color my thinking Vagabond's the best comic out there, East or West.* It brilliantly and originally tells a story that's been told so dang much, and good goodness, the art is astounding. A kickass comic will get me excited to draw, but the linework that comes out of Team Inoue is so beyond your wildest hopes for how hot comic art can be.

*I think Vagabond is the best, but Scott Pilgrim is my favorite. (Comics in general)

Thinaran
02-10-2009, 07:05 AM
I don't think you'll be kicked off Talking Time for not putting Scott Pilgrim at your #1 spot.

Your description of Parasyte is spot on. :)

nadia
02-11-2009, 04:01 PM
I have every volume of Parasyte released so far--but they're scattered around my apartment and I'm missing #1. I guess it's worth it to gather them all together and buy #1.

Also, I liked Manga Sutra.

shivam
02-11-2009, 04:02 PM
has anybody read solanin?

teekun
02-11-2009, 04:22 PM
I actually borrowed Akira from a friend last week and am LOVING it.

That's because it's fantastic!

I could stare at some of Otomo's cityscape scenes for ages, there is just so much detail in every single panel.

tungwene
02-11-2009, 07:39 PM
has anybody read solanin?Yes.

shivam
02-11-2009, 08:02 PM
good/bad?

i have a soft spot for slice of life manga meant for 20-something women, like the works of erika sakurazawa, so this had me intrigued.

AJR
02-11-2009, 08:55 PM
Solanin is the first and only manga I’ve read. I enjoyed it quite a bit. Artwork is nice, translation seems pretty solid. I found the whole book kind of depressing though.

Mightyblue
02-11-2009, 09:41 PM
A kickass comic will get me excited to draw, but the linework that comes out of Team Inoue is so beyond your wildest hopes for how hot comic art can be.Man, between Vagabond and Berserk, I weep at the thought of there not being much remotely of that quality from Western comic artists or even studios.

Kishi
02-11-2009, 09:45 PM
Solanin (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?p=320361#post320361) is great (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=354985&postcount=468).

Kirin
02-12-2009, 06:05 AM
i have a soft spot for slice of life manga meant for 20-something women, like the works of erika sakurazawa, so this had me intrigued.

Yeah, I think you'll like Solanin just fine. And since it's one combined volume over here, it's a pretty good value too.

Also, I liked Manga Sutra.

Manga Sutra is.... amusing. The "educational" aspects are just kind of hilarious. I actually have a bunch of it in Japanese (where it's "Futari Ecchi"), and the first compilation in English. I'm not really sure if I can justify buying more, though.

Pombar
02-12-2009, 07:21 AM
I do read Vagabond off and on, but the art flips between really nice, really unnerving, and just kinda crappy. I'd take Blade of the Immortal over it any day.

Kishi
02-12-2009, 07:25 AM
I do read Vagabond off and on, but the art flips between really nice, really unnerving, and just kinda crappy.

I don't think this is actually true.

Grignr
02-12-2009, 02:49 PM
Once, I thought I had stopped buying Blade of the Immortal, but it turned out they just hadn't published a volume that year.

Hmm, Amazon says I last bought it in 2005, and there's now 6 more volumes. That might be enough story progression to bother with.

alexb
02-12-2009, 03:01 PM
What volume are they up to for Berserk now? Domestically, I mean.

tungwene
02-12-2009, 03:10 PM
Vagabond's run spans the point in Inoue's career where he transitioned from illustrator to full-fledged artist and it really shows in the story's artwork as he gets more and more abstract and experimental. It's ALL amazing in my opinion.

tungwene
02-12-2009, 03:23 PM
This is (http://khyungbird.livejournal.com/56246.html) intriguing. (http://kingofrpgs.com/)

Grignr
02-12-2009, 05:05 PM
What volume are they up to for Berserk now? Domestically, I mean.

I just got #27 from Amazon.

Mightyblue
02-12-2009, 06:26 PM
Up to 34 in Japan right now.

nadia
02-13-2009, 04:06 AM
Manga Sutra is.... amusing. The "educational" aspects are just kind of hilarious. I actually have a bunch of it in Japanese (where it's "Futari Ecchi"), and the first compilation in English. I'm not really sure if I can justify buying more, though.

Yeah, I never went beyond the first volume. Purchasing it was an amusing event, (http://woekitten.livejournal.com/508882.html) though!

There were some really amusing moments, like the father of the protagonist (it's been years) pleading for his kids to stop talking about kinky sex in front of the family shrines.

alexb
02-13-2009, 08:18 AM
I just got #27 from Amazon.

Wow, I've let myself get ten volumes behind.

Anonymooo
02-13-2009, 08:26 AM
But seriously guys, go back and read the first arc of Dragon Ball, before it became Z. It's actually good because it had a heart and soul back then.Or you could read One Piece, which is like this all the time.
http://www.pergh.com/battle/uploads/2008/02/original2.jpg
I've recently started reading manhua again, and I have to say that while Chinese comics are either unnecessarily convoluted (StormRiders, The Legendary Couple) or just plain insane (Saint Legend), there's no denying just how beautiful they are.

Then you get the occasional few that are actually enjoyable to read while you're picking your eyes up off the floor, like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

Grignr
02-13-2009, 06:17 PM
I just got #27 from Amazon.

And the Urasawa part of my order came in today: Pluto #1 and 20th Century Boys #1.

tungwene
02-13-2009, 08:21 PM
And the Urasawa part of my order came in today: Pluto #1 and 20th Century Boys #1.Still waiting for mine to ship. :(

Dhroo
03-14-2009, 08:57 AM
So this week the bookstore I work at received a few copies each of the first two volumes of Pluto, and I pretty much devoured them as soon as I could. I've honestly been pretty ambivalent towards what I've seen of Urasawa so far (Monster and 20th Century Boys both seem to have a lot of potential, but kind of take a while to really get going, in my opinion), but I'm really loving this. It's just so cool to see the Astro Boy universe and characters totally re-imagined in this way. It eventually occurred to me that it's basically just a retelling of the "World's Strongest Robots" storyline, so in a sense I can tell what's going to happen(not that the title doesn't spell it out anyway), but it still manages to stay suspenseful and interesting.

Can't wait for the next volume to come in.

tungwene
03-14-2009, 11:30 AM
I don't see why I have to have read The World's Strongest Robot first in order to fully appreciate Pluto. I'm liking it fine going into the series blind and also I don't want to know what's going to happen. I think not being able to recognize the significance of all the Astro Boy references Pluto is a fair enough trade off to not being spoiled since I'm enjoying the story presented in the retelling just fine.

nadia
03-14-2009, 12:29 PM
I don't see why I have to have read The World's Strongest Robot first in order to fully appreciate Pluto. I'm liking it fine going into the series blind and also I don't want to know what's going to happen. I think not being able to recognize the significance of all the Astro Boy references Pluto is a fair enough trade off to not being spoiled since I'm enjoying the story presented in the retelling just fine.

Wow, I went into Pluto remembering almost nothing about the World's Strongest Robot, and I still find it brilliant.

If I read World's Strongest Robot first, my head might pop. :(

Dhroo
03-14-2009, 08:57 PM
Oh, I certainly wasn't saying that reading the Astro Boy storyline is essential to enjoying Pluto. It's just neat to see a different take on it, and to be all, "Ohhhhh, it's that guy," when I see a Tezuka universe character drawn in Urasawa's style, the more realistic redesigns of the Greatest Robots in particular. Besides, the presentation of the story is different and well-done enough that even knowing what's going to happen, it's still very entertaining.

I, uh, actually haven't read any Astro Boy, I'm just familiar with some of the major storylines thanks to the GBA game.

estragon
03-15-2009, 09:04 AM
I don't know how far you all have read (or even how much has been published/fanslated in English at this point), but there are some major plot elements that very blatantly allude to the Bush II era Iraq War in a way that makes it seem pretty clear that the plot has probably been reworked considerably.

I have not read the original, but I'm pretty sure that it would not spoil you too much for this beyond the most basic plot elements and charcter designs. Once it gets starting into the meat of the plot, it very quickly begins to feel very much like an Urasawa story.

tungwene
03-16-2009, 10:58 AM
Rough release schedule for Yotsuba&! 6-8! (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-03-15/yen-press-announces-yotsuba&manga-release-dates)

Kirin
03-16-2009, 11:32 AM
Pity they're so far off, but I'll take releases over no releases, that's for sure. Hooray!

Kirin
03-22-2009, 12:54 PM
Guys, Pluto is really good. And I say this as someone who's never actually read a full volume of Tezuka.

(For those who've been living under a manga-world rock, Pluto is Urusawa's (of Monster, 20th Century Boys, Yawara) re-telling of an arc from Tezuka's Astro Boy.)

Also, Urusawa's Atom is adorable. I want to give him a hug.

tungwene
03-22-2009, 02:30 PM
Also, Urusawa's Atom is adorable. I want to give him a hug.This, though to me he is adorable in a different way than I normally use that word. The way Urasawa writes him the poor squirt seems so lonely, so aware of himself to know no other robot is advanced enough in the same way he is, and so utterly isolated because of the traits that make him special.

Anonymooo
04-05-2009, 02:10 PM
Hunter X Hunter changes gears from a standard action-adventure/exam series to a martial arts/chi mastery series and now it's a freakin' auction economics how-to. I really like this series despite the sketchy and sometimes inconsistent art.

Aleanil
04-05-2009, 02:18 PM
Hunter X Hunter changes gears from a standard action-adventure/exam series to a martial arts/chi mastery series and now it's a freakin' auction economics how-to. I really like this series despite the sketchy and sometimes inconsistent art.

Agreed 100%.. if only Togashi would quit going on hiatus for unknown reasons and *finish* the thing.

Anonymooo
04-05-2009, 02:20 PM
I thought he was hit by a car or was sick or something?

Or am I thinking of the D.Gray-Man mangaka?

onimaruxlr
04-05-2009, 02:30 PM
who the hell is yen press

aw man i'm gonna lose it if their shit is all wack inconsistent or busted somehow

tungwene
04-05-2009, 05:57 PM
who the hell is yen press

aw man i'm gonna lose it if their shit is all wack inconsistent or busted somehowYen Press is the manga publishing branch of Hachette. They've brought over the Haruhi Suzumiya light novels and manga and are publishing Svetlana Chmakova's (the Dramacon gal) new series. They've also rereleased a lot of Ice Kunion's out-of-print manwa and I've seen nothing objectionable about their retranslations. I've heard they've got at least one of original Yotsuba translators is working on the books. BTW, Yen Press is also retranslating and rereleasing Azumanga Daioh.

Kishi
04-05-2009, 06:59 PM
Read the first volume of Pluto a couple days ago. I love a good detective story, and that's Urasawa's specialty; I'm also enjoying the novelty of seeing more realistic interpretations of Tezuka characters. Now I just hope it won't be drug out for about twice as many volumes as it actually warrants, like Monster.


Hunter X Hunter changes gears from a standard action-adventure/exam series to a martial arts/chi mastery series

Yu Yu Hakusho starts off as a story about a contemptible delinquent who dies in such an unlikely fashion (saving a little boy from being struck by a car) that the pantheon of Japan's afterlife hasn't got a space for him, and instead gives him the chance to redeem his soul and return to life by traveling around with a chipper god of death, solving people's problems like only a ghost can.

But just a few volumes in, there's a very sudden, deliberate decision to make it a fighting manga, subverting the unique narrative and cute artwork, and even dropping the delinquent angle; so instead of something awesome like River City Ransom, it's closer to Dragon Ball Z. Then, sure enough, it spends like ten volumes on a fighting tournament.

And that's why I'll never forgive Yoshihiro Togashi.

estragon
04-05-2009, 07:07 PM
Now I just hope it won't be drug out for about twice as many volumes as it actually warrants, like Monster.


I'm still waiting for the final volume of Pluto to be released, but having read everything but that I'd say the length is just about perfect.

If anything, it may feel a little too short, depending on how well he's able to wrap things up in the last volume.

Overall, though, it seems really well planned structurally, so I have faith that he'll finish it up well.

Kishi
04-05-2009, 07:15 PM
I just hate the multi-volume arcs delving into new characters who are only tangentially related to the main plot, while letting drip just enough details about said plot to continue stringing me along. Tenma, Nina, Johan: yes, good, GO. Supporting characters like the guy who taught Tenma how to use a gun are good for short, poignant, self-contained vignettes, but they have no place stealing the show.

Anonymooo
04-05-2009, 07:40 PM
And that's why I'll never forgive Yoshihiro Togashi.YYH has pretty much the shounen fighting tournament, though--later series that feature tournaments all take major cues from it.

Aside from that, I think it's just personal preference, as I love simple shounen fighting manga more than anything else, and YYH does that whole song and dance very, very well.

Kishi
04-05-2009, 07:44 PM
YYH has pretty much the shounen fighting tournament, though--later series that feature tournaments all take major cues from it.

Really? I suffered the whole thing, and I thought it owed its major cues to Dragon Ball's Tenka'ichi Budoukai.

Anonymooo
04-05-2009, 07:51 PM
The Tenkaichi Budoukai tournaments were great, but Toriyama's fights, while very well-choreographed, came down to luck of the draw and were less about the individual fights as they were about the final match, which was always, always a good one.

Yes, I even liked Mr. Satan vs. 18.

The YYH-style tournament was one where every individual fight constantly threw something new at the "hero team," and since the series was all over pseudo-science and strategic combat it was cool (for me) to see the characters being put on the spot and forced to do something new each time.

Edit: Hell, it's why I like Hajime no Ippo--the whole thing is one gigantic, 89-volume tournament arc, strategic combat and all.

teekun
04-05-2009, 07:58 PM
I just read volume 1 of Viz's release of 20th Century Boys this weekend and I'm really enjoying it. It's a bit of a shame it's only coming out every two months, but I can wait as long as the quality stays this high.

Kishi
04-05-2009, 08:02 PM
strategic combat

One thing I can say for YYH: THE FIGHTING is that its matches were usually decided by a character devising some ingenius trick that essentially won the fight immediately, rather than the equivalent of two guys powering up at each other for twenty chapters (although there was some of that, too).

It just wasn't what I wanted to see -- personal preference, like you said. I'll always count it as a great shame that the original incarnation of the story was removed from what made it unique and refitted for a tired, familiar genre before it even got a chance to take off.

estragon
04-05-2009, 08:29 PM
I just hate the multi-volume arcs delving into new characters who are only tangentially related to the main plot, while letting drip just enough details about said plot to continue stringing me along. Tenma, Nina, Johan: yes, good, GO. Supporting characters like the guy who taught Tenma how to use a gun are good for short, poignant, self-contained vignettes, but they have no place stealing the show.

I'm assuming that you're talking about Monster here, because I've never read it and so have no idea what you're talking about.

In any case, Pluto is far too structurally compact for this kind of problem to be possible. It starts a bit slowly simply by nature of it being a detective story, but once things get moving the plot tends to move directly to its conclusion.

Kishi
04-05-2009, 08:44 PM
I'm assuming that you're talking about Monster here, because I've never read it and so have no idea what you're talking about.

Yeah, I thought we were talking about Monster. I'm surprised an Urasawa guy like you hasn't read it!

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that thing isn't an issue with Pluto.

mr_bungle700
04-05-2009, 09:29 PM
I just hate the multi-volume arcs delving into new characters who are only tangentially related to the main plot, while letting drip just enough details about said plot to continue stringing me along. Tenma, Nina, Johan: yes, good, GO. Supporting characters like the guy who taught Tenma how to use a gun are good for short, poignant, self-contained vignettes, but they have no place stealing the show.

This was the biggest flaw with 20th Century Boys as well, though in that case it was mitigated quite a bit by the fact that all those supporting characters eventually ended up being rolled into the overall plot. If Pluto doesn't have this same problem then it could likely be his best work yet.

tungwene
04-05-2009, 09:42 PM
I don't mind Urasawa's habit of following too many tangent subplots. It makes his worlds feel lived in populated by real people with real lives. He does that a little bit in the first volume of Pluto as well but I agree I don't see the cast of Pluto growing to a size where it could become annoying.

estragon
04-05-2009, 09:50 PM
Yeah, I thought we were talking about Monster. I'm surprised an Urasawa guy like you hasn't read it!

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that thing isn't an issue with Pluto.

I've only read Pluto (still waiting on the last volume) and 20th Century Boys. :( And both fairly recently, honestly.

I also bought a big collection of his early short stories that is sitting in my living room that I hope to read soon.

20th Century Boys was all I needed to become a huge fan, though. Something that awesome did not seem like it could possibly be a fluke.

EDIT: As per why Pluto never gets bloated, kind of spoilers if you just started-- It follows a pretty tight structural pattern of (1) Introduce one of the world's strongest robots (2) Robot gets killed (3) Repeat.

Willm
04-05-2009, 10:14 PM
Hell, it's why I like Hajime no Ippo--the whole thing is one gigantic, 89-volume tournament arc, strategic combat and all.

I've been playing the Victorious Boxers (PS2) after picking it up for dirt cheap at Gamestop, and I've been wondering if I should check out the manga. It sounds interesting, though I am allergic to characters shouting out a long, detailed description of their next move, which is why I usually steer clear of fighting/tournament manga/anime.

On a somewhat related not, I have this cool signed illustration from the manga I won at TGS 2006. I was waiting in an absurdly long line to play something (DMC IV, I think) and I took a raffle ticket while waiting. Apparently it was the grand prize!

Figure Four
04-05-2009, 10:59 PM
I've been reading manga...Wheee!

Aiki and Tende Freeze: Man I love Isutoshi. Great artwork, cute girls, and funny as hell.

Garouden: Dudes punching other dudes in the face. By the same guy who did Grappler Baki. Not as batshit insane as Baki though.

Narutaru: I am concerned for the mental health of Mohiro Kitoh. Holy God, this series left me depressed.

Adventure Boys: A bunch of funny and bittersweet short stories by Mitsuru Adachi. I read it to pick me up out of my Narutaru induced depression. It did the trick.

Kishi
04-05-2009, 11:21 PM
I've been playing the Victorious Boxers (PS2) after picking it up for dirt cheap at Gamestop, and I've been wondering if I should check out the manga. It sounds interesting, though I am allergic to characters shouting out a long, detailed description of their next move, which is why I usually steer clear of fighting/tournament manga/anime.

Hajime no Ippo is mostly realistic, so the fighters don't say anything to each other; they just have their own internal monologues, along with the observations made by the characters in the audience.

You should definitely check it out. I just picked it up a few months ago, and it quickly became one of my all-time favorites (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?p=407567#post407567).

liquid
04-06-2009, 12:39 AM
When I first started reading 20th Century Boys, I was completely pumped for the official English release. But as the series began piling on climax after climax and everybody kept remembering new childhood friends, I just became exhausted. And by 21st Century Boys, the whole thing started to seem like a joke. He also put this (1 (http://liquid.do-ob.com/dot%20eye%20emm%20gee/21st_Century_Boys_c08_012.png), 2 (http://liquid.do-ob.com/dot%20eye%20emm%20gee/21st_Century_Boys_c08_013.png), 3 (http://liquid.do-ob.com/dot%20eye%20emm%20gee/21st_Century_Boys_c08_014.png)) in the second to last book without ever following up on it, which soured the entire ending for me.

I'd like to read Pluto, but after the massive disappointment of 20th Century Boys' ending and, uh, everything about Happy!, I'm reluctant to pick up any of his work that's unfinished.

Mitsuru Adachi
Really needs to be available in English.

Ample Vigour
04-06-2009, 02:37 AM
Hajime no Ippo is mostly realistic, so the fighters don't say anything to each other; they just have their own internal monologues, along with the observations made by the characters in the audience.

You should definitely check it out. I just picked it up a few months ago, and it quickly became one of my all-time favorites (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?p=407567#post407567).

Hajime no Ippo runs as long as it has because George Morigawa realizes that his series has to make up for all the awful being put out by so many of his colleagues.

No ten minutes spent reading HnI is a wasted ten minutes.

Kirin
04-06-2009, 06:00 AM
Narutaru: I am concerned for the mental health of Mohiro Kitoh. Holy God, this series left me depressed.

You should see his next series. He agreed to let the director of the anime adaptation drastically change the direction of the plot half-way through, because the source material was just too damn depressing to continue.

estragon
04-06-2009, 07:44 AM
He also put this (1 (http://liquid.do-ob.com/dot%20eye%20emm%20gee/21st_Century_Boys_c08_012.png), 2 (http://liquid.do-ob.com/dot%20eye%20emm%20gee/21st_Century_Boys_c08_013.png), 3 (http://liquid.do-ob.com/dot%20eye%20emm%20gee/21st_Century_Boys_c08_014.png)) in the second to last book without ever following up on it, which soured the entire ending for me.

Does it impact your opinion to know that that translation is terrible? There are other weird problems throughout, but here's one big example to illustrate just how off it is:

"You didn't turn out like I'd hoped" should actually be "I'm not who you think I am." That is . . . not even close.
(Original: 俺はおまえが思うような人間じゃない。<--This is not a complicated sentence.)

It's pretty clear they didn't actuallly understand what this conversation was about, and this big misconception bleeds into other lines contextually to make this whole scene bizarre. So, instead of it being a conversation that comes out of nowhere, in reality it actually makes sense thematically and in the context of the overall story. (i.e. Kanna's expectations vs. the reality of Kenji . . . and since the reality of Kenji is a major theme near the end of the story, it makes sense . . .)

So . . . take that into consideration before you judge it too much. I really hope that's not a the professional translation. If it is, I would recommend that no one buy this in English. If it isn't, I'd recommend not judging him by an terrible scanslation. Honestly, if mistakes that big in translations of basic sentences are slipping through, I don't think you should take what you've read as remotelly representative of what the series is actually like.

Unless you just happened to post the only 3 pages in the entire translation that completely miss the point of the conversation by random chance, which seems unlikely.

Kishi
04-06-2009, 07:47 AM
I wonder if Urasawa gets despondent when he creates a story that takes place in Japan and he doesn't get to draw huge noses on everyone.

mrbuu82
04-06-2009, 07:56 AM
I guess that's why he decided to do Pluto. Dr. Ochanomizu and the Inspector have enough schnoz for the whole cast.

tungwene
04-06-2009, 11:31 AM
I've noticed about Urasawa that all the people that are supposed to be pretty look like they're Japanese (Nina, Johan) unless they're already Japanese. Women that aren't supposed to be attractive all look distantly related to Eva Heinemann (they've all got her eyes) regardless of nationality. And everyone else that doesn't fall in those two groups has got big honking noses. I prefer his characters of the third category more as at least if they're ugly they're all uniquely ugly in different ways.

I hope the Cross Game anime does well enough for someone to be interested in bringing over the manga. As it stands it's probably the Mitsuru Adachi series with the greatest chance of being officially translated since it's an ongoing series and publishers like picking up series that may potentially run very long but still don't have too many books published as opposed to a long running series already finished (AKA all his other popular series).

dwolfe
04-06-2009, 06:31 PM
"You didn't turn out like I'd hoped" should actually be "I'm not who you think I am." That is . . . not even close.
(Original: 俺はおまえが思うような人間じゃない。<--This is not a complicated sentence.)

Oh god, that's a terrible translation (I trust your knowledge of moon letters). My god, they could have paid for a scanlation group's work and done better if that's professional.

I don't even understand how that would get by a fan group, who presumable both read the manga and care about the plot.

teekun
04-06-2009, 06:50 PM
So . . . take that into consideration before you judge it too much. I really hope that's not a the professional translation. If it is, I would recommend that no one buy this in English.

I don't think that could be the licensed, official English release considering only the first volume is currently available.

Gredlen
04-06-2009, 09:52 PM
Wow, that's an awful translation. My Japanese is at about the 6-year-old level and I still understood the original sentence perfectly.

dwolfe
04-06-2009, 10:01 PM
I don't think that could be the licensed, official English release considering only the first volume is currently available.

At least for the US. It's possible it's another country's translation.

But damn. That's a terrible translation from a fan-subbing group, is that the only one available?

teekun
04-06-2009, 10:31 PM
At least for the US. It's possible it's another country's translation.

But damn. That's a terrible translation from a fan-subbing group, is that the only one available?

I thought that Viz was currently the only English-language publisher of the series, but I suppose that's a possibility.

Makkara
04-07-2009, 03:59 AM
"You didn't turn out like I'd hoped" should actually be "I'm not who you think I am." That is . . . not even close.
(Original: 俺はおまえが思うような人間じゃない。<--This is not a complicated sentence.)

You know, that looks a lot like the kind of mistake I might make. But then, my Japanese proficiency is pretty damn low, (I didn't know any of the kanji except 人) and sentence structure is the hardest part of the language for me. At least I know I don't have any business doing translations.

liquid
04-09-2009, 03:55 AM
Does it impact your opinion to know that that translation is terrible?
It does! Although I still think the series would have been improved if it were about two-thirds as long.

And, yes, those pages are from a fan translation.


Can anybody tell me anything about the Tsukihime manga? I've heard that the official translation might not be that good, so I'm hesitant to buy it.

Ample Vigour
04-09-2009, 08:34 AM
It does! Although I still think the series would have been improved if it were about two-thirds as long.

It's never pretty when a writer loses the threads of his own story. Urasawa is able to tie things up to my satisfaction by the end, but the middle third is so full of false starts that I can only imagine him sitting at his desk and staring at an unopened character bible, begging for a way out of the mess he's made.

I wonder if Urasawa planned to end thing with Fukubei's death in the beginning, before the title took off and the second set of prophecies had to be introduced. It leaves quite a bit unexplained (having Fukubei and Katsumata trade Friend responsibilities is a pretty elegant way to handle Friend's variable powers and motivations, I must admit,) but results in a much more coherent reading experience.

mrbuu82
04-09-2009, 09:06 AM
I am really liking Rough, but the recent anime adaptation for Cross Game makes me want to switch. Which Adachi manga is the best Adachi manga?

Ample Vigour
04-09-2009, 10:42 AM
I am really liking Rough, but the recent anime adaptation for Cross Game makes me want to switch. Which Adachi manga is the best Adachi manga?

Adachi manga is the best Adachi manga.

UnChocolate
04-09-2009, 09:22 PM
It does! Although I still think the series would have been improved if it were about two-thirds as long.

And, yes, those pages are from a fan translation.


Can anybody tell me anything about the Tsukihime manga? I've heard that the official translation might not be that good, so I'm hesitant to buy it.

I haven't read the official translation but the manga itself is excellent, doubly so considering how badly the anime messed up.

Figure Four
04-09-2009, 09:25 PM
I am really liking Rough, but the recent anime adaptation for Cross Game makes me want to switch. Which Adachi manga is the best Adachi manga?

I'm partial to H2 myself.

Gredlen
04-09-2009, 09:56 PM
The Tsukihime manga is pretty awesome. I have the Japanese version, so I can't speak for the translation, though.

Ample Vigour
04-10-2009, 12:02 AM
I'm partial to H2 myself.

*knux*

liquid
04-15-2009, 10:50 PM
Kaoru Mori's new comic is...

Well, it's something.

Beautifully illustrated, though.

estragon
04-16-2009, 08:21 AM
One of the people who transferred into my office this month told me Tuesday night at a welcoming party for the new folks that he would lend me the entire series of Slam Dunk. I thought he was just being a drunken Japanese middle-aged dude and that he would just forget about this, like many other drunken Japanese middle-aged dudes who have drunkenly said nice things they didn't follow through with (and that I didn't expect them to, either).

However, this morning at work my new co-worker presented me with a big paper sack containing 32 volumes of ridiculous basketball action.

I've only read the first volume, but so far I'm really enjoying it in that shonen manga kind of way. It's also a lot funnier and a lot more 4th wall breaking than I imagined. I think I will have a good time with this, despite not really being interested in real life sports.

Kishi
04-16-2009, 08:26 AM
Yeah, it's weird to see what Inoue was doing before he became an artist artist. It oozes that irreplaceable comic style of the late '80s and early '90s.

I've only read the first volume, too. I need to be put in touch with a drunken middle-aged Japanese dude. =X

Anonymooo
04-16-2009, 10:47 AM
There's a lot of people who really enjoy sports manga without being particularly interested in real-life sports. The good ones tend to have very strong character development and are just plain fun to read.

Kishi
04-16-2009, 05:03 PM
Thanks to Hajime no Ippo, I now pay attention whenever there's a boxing match playing in a restaurant. Since you can't hear the announcers, I do my own analysis of things like body blows and counters, too.

Figure Four
04-16-2009, 05:13 PM
One of the people who transferred into my office this month told me Tuesday night at a welcoming party for the new folks that he would lend me the entire series of Slam Dunk. I thought he was just being a drunken Japanese middle-aged dude and that he would just forget about this, like many other drunken Japanese middle-aged dudes who have drunkenly said nice things they didn't follow through with (and that I didn't expect them to, either).

However, this morning at work my new co-worker presented me with a big paper sack containing 32 volumes of ridiculous basketball action.

I've only read the first volume, but so far I'm really enjoying it in that shonen manga kind of way. It's also a lot funnier and a lot more 4th wall breaking than I imagined. I think I will have a good time with this, despite not really being interested in real life sports.

Give it some time. Slam Dunk is one of those series which improves exponentially as it goes on.

teekun
04-16-2009, 05:15 PM
Thanks to Hajime no Ippo, I now pay attention whenever there's a boxing match playing in a restaurant. Since you can't hear the announcers, I do my own analysis of things like body blows and counters, too.

Hajime no Ippo made me perpetually disappointed in real boxing matches.

Ample Vigour
04-16-2009, 05:23 PM
Hajime no Ippo made me perpetually disappointed in real boxing matches.

Hagler-Hearns.

mr_bungle700
04-16-2009, 06:56 PM
There's a lot of people who really enjoy sports manga without being particularly interested in real-life sports. The good ones tend to have very strong character development and are just plain fun to read.

Correct. The secret behind good sports manga (and good manga, and good storytelling in general) is that if a story has well-developed, believable characters facing conflicts that are have real significance to them, then the details of the story that surround those characters can be anything the author wants them to be. It doesn't matter if the story is about basketball or baseball or board games or card games or mahjong or microbiology or ballet or whatever. If the audience can invest themselves in the characters then they will also invest themselves in the experiences that those characters have.

If a character is really serious about, say, judo, and the audience cares about that character, then they will care about the flow and outcome of the character's judo matches even if they don't have an interest in the art itself.

That, and good sports manga tend to make their sports super exciting, and put a lot of effort into explaining why people are interested in them. I really, extremely don't care about car racing, but a manga like Initial D (which I haven't read, so I'm making an assumption here) would probably present car racing in a way that would help me understand why people like it. As a result, I would then develop an appreciation for the sport because I would have an idea what other people see in it. Even if I didn't become a car racing fan, I would still be able to get into the races in the story because I would understand the significance of the events taking place.

liquid
04-16-2009, 07:15 PM
Is this where we tell everyone to read Mitsuru Adachi again?

Zef
04-16-2009, 09:03 PM
So, since it hasn't shown up in local stores, I bought Pluto #1 while I was in the US.

Augh! I wish I hadn't.

Because it's amazing and intriguing and it ends on a great cliffhanger and I neglected to buy Vol 2 alongside it. Now I'll either wait an eternity for the comic shop to import it, or bite the bullet and pay Amazon's shipping. But dammit, it'll be worth it. I know it.

On a similar vein, whoever suggested the basketball manga Real, I hate you. I'm only two volumes into it, but I already need this book to live!

teekun
04-16-2009, 09:07 PM
So, since it hasn't shown up in local stores, I bought Pluto #1 while I was in the US.

Augh! I wish I hadn't.

Because it's amazing and intriguing and it ends on a great cliffhanger and I neglected to buy Vol 2 alongside it. Now I'll either wait an eternity for the comic shop to import it, or bite the bullet and pay Amazon's shipping. But dammit, it'll be worth it. I know it.

On a similar vein, whoever suggested the basketball manga Real, I hate you. I'm only two volumes into it, but I already need this book to live!

I'm sitting on Volume 1 of Pluto as well, and none of my local shops have volume 2, so I've just bitten the bullet and ordered it from Amazon, along with the second volume of 20th Century Boys and some other stuff. I find that when I buy in bulk, it makes the shipping a tiny bit less painful.

Besides, with the AU/US dollar conversion rate the way it is, the Amazon discount basically makes up for the shipping cost when you compare it to what I'd have to pay here for them.

tungwene
04-17-2009, 04:57 AM
I pre-ordered Pluto 1 and 2 and 20th Century Boys 1 and 2 a long time ago and have both (and have Pluto 3 on preorder). All four books are pretty awesome. I'm a little disappointed that Real has not caught on more in my local stores. Borders stocked volume 1 for a month before shipping them all back before I had a chance to buy it. Barnes and Nobles had volumes 1 and 2 but don't carry it anymore and now I can't read 3.

Kaoru Mori's new comic is...

Well, it's something.

Beautifully illustrated, though.That's the one about the princess on the Silk Road right? How is it?

UnChocolate
04-20-2009, 09:23 AM
Finished Tekkon Kinkreet. Kind of bizarre and it didn't bother to wrap up what little plot it had, which made the whole epilogue kind of weird. I'm honestly not sure if I even really liked it per se, but the world it built up was pretty neat, if nothing else. White and Black were rather grating at first, but they grew on me.

Pombar
04-20-2009, 10:57 AM
I just finished Black & White myself. I'm not sure I really grew to like the two of them all that much, but I did like the setting and general cast enough to keep reading to the end. But after all that, I think for my 'short, weird, charming' type mangas, I prefer what I've read of Kei Toume's stuff.

Kishi
04-20-2009, 11:40 AM
Does the stuff with the "Minotaur" at least make sense, like it very much did not in the movie?

Ample Vigour
04-20-2009, 12:11 PM
You guys who liked Tekkon Kinkreet should really check out Blue Spring. It manages to boil disaffection to a syrup of pure angst.

There's also the best chase sequence I've read in years.

liquid
04-20-2009, 06:15 PM
That's the one about the princess on the Silk Road right? How is it?
Well, so far it's only three chapters long, but it seems every bit as charming as the rest of Mori's work. Still, it's about a marriage between a boy that has yet to hit puberty and a woman in her twenties, so I feel slightly uncomfortable with scenes like this (http://liquid.do-ob.com/dot%20eye%20emm%20gee/Otoyomegatari%20chapter%203%2034.png) (although I trust Mori not to go anywhere skeevy for the sake of being skeevy).

UnChocolate
04-20-2009, 06:37 PM
Does the stuff with the "Minotaur" at least make sense, like it very much did not in the movie?
I haven't seen the movie, so I can't really compare the two. Really, it made about as much sense as three Chinese assassins chasing after two flying kids. It struck me as a contrived character resolution more than anything else.

Kishi
04-20-2009, 06:40 PM
In the movie, you just get two or three passing references to the Minotaur over the course of things, and his first and only appearance is at the story's climax. He and Black immediately start yelling at each other about light and darkness while I can only think, "Wait, what? What's this? Do you two know each other, or...? WHAT IS GOING ON ALL OF A SUDDEN"

UnChocolate
04-20-2009, 06:42 PM
Yea, that's basically how it went down in the comic. Passing reference in the first third, then when Black was getting a beat down, the Minotaur randomly showed up and saved him, then commence shouting. It's supposed to be his id or something, I guess. Reminds me of the minotaur from House of Leaves, now that I think about it.

Mightyblue
04-20-2009, 06:50 PM
Man. You guys made me read all of Cross Game (that's out in scanlated English, anyway) because of the anime. It's good, but I keep getting reminded of Kimagure Orange Road what with all the ignorant male and female leads romantically speaking.

Al Baron
04-20-2009, 09:49 PM
So I've been reading Hikaru no Go lately and I was wonder if this 'Hand of God' business is basically solving Go like the University of Alberta did with Checkers a few years ago. Well, the 19X19 boards, anyway.

tungwene
04-20-2009, 09:58 PM
Yes.

asdfjkl; character limit

UnChocolate
04-20-2009, 09:59 PM
So I've been reading Hikaru no Go lately and I was wonder if this 'Hand of God' business is basically solving Go like the University of Alberta did with Checkers a few years ago. Well, the 19X19 boards, anyway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_move

Lucas
04-20-2009, 10:11 PM
Well, so far it's only three chapters long, but it seems every bit as charming as the rest of Mori's work. Still, it's about a marriage between a boy that has yet to hit puberty and a woman in her twenties, so I feel slightly uncomfortable with scenes like this (http://liquid.do-ob.com/dot%20eye%20emm%20gee/Otoyomegatari%20chapter%203%2034.png) (although I trust Mori not to go anywhere skeevy for the sake of being skeevy).

See, the me now thinks that's kinda skeevy, sure. Only-barely-just-pubescent me would have found that really hot.

Kirin
04-21-2009, 06:50 AM
Hmm, fascinating and unexpected. But like liquid, I basically trust Mori. I wonder if/when this will get a US release.

estragon
04-23-2009, 09:01 AM
New Discovery: Someone lent me a couple volumes of Black Jack stuff.

Apparently, Black Jack is stupidly awesome.

Everyone should read Black Jack.

Update: 4 volumes in, Slam Dunk is still enjoyable ridiculous shonen nonsense.

tungwene
04-23-2009, 01:13 PM
Stupidly awesome sounds about right for Black Jack.

I've been spoiled by Inoue's later work so trying to read Slam Dunk feels like staring at Picasso's kindergarten finger paintings. Fascinating to look at for comparison's sake but not something I put high in my reading priority.

Kishi
04-23-2009, 02:00 PM
I've been spoiled by Inoue's later work so trying to read Slam Dunk feels like staring at Picasso's kindergarten finger paintings. Fascinating to look at for comparison's sake but not something I put high in my reading priority.

The art in Slam Dunk isn't without skill, even compared to Vagabond. Again, though, I adore anything done in the common style of that era.

teekun
04-23-2009, 04:48 PM
Just finished the second volume of Pluto and it continues to be awesome.

Although the last few pages didn't have quite the impact on me that they should as I wasn't aware that Astro Girl's name is Uran in Japan

Stupid accurate translation!

estragon
04-23-2009, 06:25 PM
Fascinating to look at for comparison's sake but not something I put high in my reading priority.

It would not be high on my priority list either, except (1) the guy who sits next to me at work as of a few weeks ago loaned me the whole series and (2) tons of people like it, so even if I hated it I'd want to read it as an exercise in cultural study.

Luckily I haven't read his later stuff yet, so I can go into this without making unfavorable comparisons.

I probably would have never sought out Slam Dunk on my own, but shonen stuff is so easy and relaxing to read that it's hard to turn down when it's right in front of me.

tungwene
04-23-2009, 07:44 PM
The art in Slam Dunk isn't without skill, even compared to Vagabond. Again, though, I adore anything done in the common style of that era.I'm not saying it isn't good. The strength of story telling is there. The hair gets to me though. Reading it is like the shocked bemusement I get when I dig through the archives of long running webcomics.
and it probably doesn't help that my first exposure to the series was knowledge that many professional mangaka I like got their start drawing doujinshi for it

Pombar
04-24-2009, 06:34 AM
I finished all of Pluto in a night and now no-one will believe me that it's great.

Reinforcements
04-24-2009, 06:44 AM
I believe you, Pombar. But I've read the first two volumes, so it might not count.

Pombar
04-24-2009, 07:41 AM
It counts. I believe it does.

tungwene
04-24-2009, 10:05 AM
I finished all of Pluto in a night and now no-one will believe me that it's great.I posted a Pluto/Astro Boy character comparison chart in the Sequential Art thread and not everyone will believe me it's great.

mrbuu82
04-24-2009, 10:27 AM
I posted a Pluto/Astro Boy character comparison chart in the Sequential Art thread and not everyone will believe me it's great.

Both versions of the story are great, but for entirely different reasons.

By the way, how did you interpret the ending?

I was confused by what exactly the teddy bear was and why that robot had decided to get involved when it hadn't moved for the whole series.

tungwene
04-24-2009, 09:15 PM
Dear NYT,

Maybe if you put one of the most detailed accounts of the history of manga based on the life of one of the most influential mangaka who lived through most of it which recently won the Tezuka Cultural Grand Prize (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-04-19/13th-tezuka-osamu-cultural-prize-winners-announced) in Japan in the manga best seller's list (http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/graphic-books-best-seller-list-april-18/) maybe your lists wouldn't look like they were compiled by bored interns who couldn't be arsed to read the blurb on the back of the book.

Figure Four
04-25-2009, 12:30 AM
Dear NYT,

Maybe if you put one of the most detailed accounts of the history of manga based on the life of one of the most influential mangaka who lived through most of it which recently won the Tezuka Cultural Grand Prize (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-04-19/13th-tezuka-osamu-cultural-prize-winners-announced) in Japan in the manga best seller's list (http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/graphic-books-best-seller-list-april-18/) maybe your lists wouldn't look like they were compiled by bored interns who couldn't be arsed to read the blurb on the back of the book.

I kind of doubt that this is the New York Time's fault. The way I see it there are two possible reasons for for A Drifting Life to be on Graphic Novels rather than Manga (heck, it might be both):

1. It was published by Drawn and Quarterly. D&Q isn't really known as a manga publisher (they mostly publish American and European indies) this means that the buyers for stores will automatically place all D&Q releases in the Graphic Novels section rather than Manga. I know for a fact that if you're looking for Tatsumi's work at Borders you should be looking in the Other Graphic Novels section.

2. It might not have sold well enough to be on the Manga Bestsellers. This is just a guess since they don't list actual numbers in the article but based on my experience I'd put good money on this. Due to the movie Watchmen is selling like gangbusters but the rest of Graphic Novel Bestseller list is more than likely way below the Manga list. A quick compare/contrast from my work:

Graphic Novels #2: Star Trek: Countdown - 5 copies received.
Manga #2: Naruto Vol. 42 - 30 received.

Anonymooo
04-25-2009, 12:37 AM
Confession time: I have never read Slam Dunk.

I have, however, seen the anime several times over and would really like to rectify the whole "reading" thing. Here's hoping the manga sells well enough that Viz compiles it into the VizBig format.

liquid
04-25-2009, 12:39 AM
I finally picked up volume one of Skip Beat!

Guys, this has a heroine even Ample Vigour could get behind.


1. It was published by Drawn and Quarterly. D&Q isn't really known as a manga publisher (they mostly publish American and European indies) this means that the buyers for stores will automatically place all D&Q releases in the Graphic Novels section rather than Manga. I know for a fact that if you're looking for Tatsumi's work at Borders you should be looking in the Other Graphic Novels section.
This seems to be true of Fanfare/Ponent Mon's releases too, at least at Barnes & Noble.

tungwene
04-25-2009, 12:42 AM
I kind of doubt that this is the New York Time's fault. The way I see it there are two possible reasons for for A Drifting Life to be on Graphic Novels rather than Manga (heck, it might be both):

1. It was published by Drawn and Quarterly. D&Q isn't really known as a manga publisher (they mostly publish American and European indies) this means that the buyers for stores will automatically place all D&Q releases in the Graphic Novels section rather than Manga. I know for a fact that if you're looking for Tatsumi's work at Borders you should be looking in the Other Graphic Novels section.

2. It might not have sold well enough to be on the Manga Bestsellers. This is just a guess since they don't list actual numbers in the article but based on my experience I'd put good money on this. Due to the movie Watchmen is selling like gangbusters but the rest of Graphic Novel Bestseller list is more than likely way below the Manga list. A quick compare/contrast from my work:

Graphic Novels #2: Star Trek: Countdown - 5 copies received.
Manga #2: Naruto Vol. 42 - 30 received.1. Dark Horse is a publisher that isn't most well known for publishing manga either yet the NYT makes a distinction between its manga and comic titles when making up lists. DC also publishes manga (Emma, Crayon Shin-chan) though I don't think they've done well enough to make it onto the list. Lots of companies not primarily known for publishing manga publish. The NYT should not classify their books solely by publisher or whichever section of a bookstore you're more likely to find a book in. Borders shelves the Zelda manga in the kids section. This is not a valid excuse.

2. If that's the case it shouldn't have been on any of the lists period. If they want their lists to portray accurate sales data they shouldn't be playing favorites and sticking it onto whichever list it sold well enough to place onto.

Daikaiju
04-25-2009, 05:56 AM
Well since no one's mentioned Here Is Greenwood, I will. I'm hoping someone will finish releasing it at some point. Kodomo no Omocha was a nice read as well. Yen Press's Bushido Blade is worth a look see.

Also I've recently caught up on the dear Sgt. Kero and his platoon. I'm just not feeling innudated by the Gundam references. Also I love the nods to various anime and manga such as the Sailor Scouts as Tamama's personal maid service and Giant Rei from Eva as a Weapon of Mass Depression . Anyone here check out the test episode Funimation posted to YouTube? Can't get that closing theme outta my skull...

Kirin
04-25-2009, 11:40 AM
Well since no one's mentioned Here Is Greenwood, I will. I'm hoping someone will finish releasing it at some point.

Wait, what? I have nine volumes of it sitting on my shelf and it finishes off with an obvious wrap-up chapter and a "the end".

(I will totally second the fact that it's awesome, though.)

Bergasa
04-25-2009, 02:53 PM
I haven't looked at this thread for a while, so if this one is already mentioned, forgive me (just consider it further praise). I started reading Pluto today, and it is really awesome. Basically, there is somebody murdering robots (this is the near future) and it follows the story of a detective named Gesicht trying to solve the case. It has a Blade Runner thing going on, and Astro Boy even puts in an appearance. :) Check it out.

Pombar
04-25-2009, 04:45 PM
Yeah, I read Pluto purely because of this thread, started and finished in a night, and it was the best thing I've read in the medium for years.

Bergasa
04-25-2009, 04:47 PM
I read Pluto purely because of this thread, started and finished in a night

I have a feeling I might be pulling a Pombar. :)

estragon
04-25-2009, 08:39 PM
You damn kids reading the end of Pluto before the final tankobon is even released in Japan.

I hope that fan translation is less completely wrong than what liquid posted of 20th Century Boys.

Kishi
04-25-2009, 08:43 PM
I've only read the first two volumes that have been released in English, because I definitely want to support the publication of things like this.

Dhroo
04-25-2009, 08:48 PM
I bought 1 and 2 not too long ago, and I've pre-ordered the hell out of the next three volumes at the bookstore where I work. 3 comes out next month!

Ample Vigour
04-26-2009, 10:06 AM
Purchased volumes 1 and 2 of both 20th Century Boys and Pluto 48 hours ago.

Most of the themes in Pluto really jump off the page once you've read it through once. Gesicht talking with the professor at Mont Blanc's memorial tears your heart out when you realize that both men are the fathers of murdered sons.

Dammit Naoki: More judo girls, less heartbreak. ;_;