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View Full Version : Selection for Societal Sanity #1 - Metal Gear Solid 3: Beyond The End


Parish
08-13-2007, 10:43 PM
I made it to The End tonight. Based on what I've heard of this encounter, I figured I probably didn't have enough time to get involved and decided to save it for tomorrow. Anyway, get chattin' -- I'll be along soon.

Adrenaline
08-14-2007, 04:48 AM
Are you sure you need 2 weeks?

Mightyblue
08-14-2007, 09:46 AM
Metal Gear Solid 2, pt. 3: Beyond The End
Freudian Slip, perhaps?

Jeanie
08-14-2007, 10:51 AM
Yeah shouldn't that be Metal Gear Solid 3?

Tomm Guycot
08-14-2007, 10:56 AM
I like the part where the Colonel sends funny codec messages.

Kishi
08-14-2007, 10:58 AM
Did you know the working title for MGS2 was "MGSIII"? The three Is were supposed to represent the New York skyline, and the story was going to be that the tanker chapter was the real "MGSII," and I don't even know, man.

Kolbe
08-14-2007, 10:59 AM
You can kill The End within 5 days doing absolutely nothing, but I konw you wouldn't do that, right?

Will you guys hunt him down to perform a hold up or do the Enemy at the Gate battle? I prefer the first.

TheSL
08-14-2007, 11:01 AM
So what is everyone's strategies for fighting The Boss? In my experience this is the boss fight with the most varied strategies from person to person.

My very first time through the game I hid in the flowers and used the sniper rifle with the infra-red on. Each subsequent time I've just ran up to her, punched her until she falls, and then shot her in the face with a tranq dart. I always wanted to do some real CQC against her, but I kind of suck with the pressure sensitive buttons.

Parish
08-14-2007, 11:09 AM
HEY GUYS A TYPO HILARIOUS!!! Sigh.

I probably won't need two weeks, but then I got a head start. We'll see where everyone else is when Saturday rolls around. If Fun Club turns into "Parish plays through a game while everyone else sits back and comments based on prior experience," Fun Club will not be long for this world.

Kishi
08-14-2007, 11:12 AM
So what is everyone's strategies for fighting The Boss? In my experience this is the boss fight with the most varied strategies from person to person.

I used to always take her down with the Mosin-Nagant and thermal goggles. It's one of the slower methods, but it she was almost guaranteed to go down without hitting me once.

But then I got Subsistence, and in Duel Mode, they don't give you any of that equipment, and going that route would take too long to rank in anyway. So, I pretty much had no choice but to learn how to take her head-on, dodge the gunfire, counter her CQC, and plug her head with pistol tranqs when the opportunities arose.

It was difficult, of course, but very rewarding--not just in terms of succeeding in Duel Mode, but especially in putting on a fitting final battle between those two characters. And now it's by far my favorite approach.

Adrenaline
08-14-2007, 11:13 AM
So what is everyone's strategies for fighting The Boss? In my experience this is the boss fight with the most varied strategies from person to person.

My very first time through the game I hid in the flowers and used the sniper rifle with the infra-red on. Each subsequent time I've just ran up to her, punched her until she falls, and then shot her in the face with a tranq dart. I always wanted to do some real CQC against her, but I kind of suck with the pressure sensitive buttons.

I hid and tried to sniper her until she got close, then tried to stun her and use the shotgun.

I was annoyed they turned off the Subsistence camera in that fight. It acknowledges that about 2/3 of the difficulty is just the viewpoint's shitiness.

Kishi
08-14-2007, 11:16 AM
If Fun Club turns into "Parish plays through a game while everyone else sits back and comments based on prior experience," Fun Club will not be long for this world.

You did kind of pick Metal Gear Solid 3, though. This shouldn't be a problem with new releases, or even with less popular games.

Adrenaline
08-14-2007, 11:26 AM
The list of future games to play on the site almost reads like the list of less-mainstream games I'm proud to have played, but I'll definitely participate in a lot of the less demanding ones, just to see them again.

Parish
08-14-2007, 11:35 AM
You did kind of pick Metal Gear Solid 3, though. This shouldn't be a problem with new releases, or even with less popular games.
Yes, and? It was by popular demand. And the original vision for Fun Club was originally to focus on recent-but-not-new titles. I've sort of subverted that to focus on a few high-profile new titles in upcoming weeks, but MGS3 is precisely the sort of game that originally inspired this entire endeavor.

Now if only I could figure out how to change the thread title.

Edit: VICTOLY

Maggie
08-14-2007, 11:38 AM
My typical strategy for fighting the Boss is to counter her CQC (if I can even remember how anymore. I think you hold down circle and jab the analog stick in the opposite direction at the moment the controller shakes), then kicking her while she's down and running away. Then I just watch where she runs to and follows her so she'll have no choice but to use CQC again.

But since I've been doing some really stupid and bizarre stuff this time through, I might just try something weird, like... oh, I don't even know. I'll save it for when I get there. If it works, it should make for a very humorous anecdote...

And has anyone else found much use for the silly flag facepaint? I've started using the Soviet one a lot, but it doesn't seem to inspire any extra trust in anyone in the cutscenes. It did make Sokolov's comment about Snake's "excellent Russian" kind of redundant, man. I'm clearly an enthusiast.

Adrenaline
08-14-2007, 11:50 AM
And has anyone else found much use for the silly flag facepaint? I've started using the Soviet one a lot, but it doesn't seem to inspire any extra trust in anyone in the cutscenes. It did make Sokolov's comment about Snake's "excellent Russian" kind of redundant, man. I'm clearly an enthusiast.

My friend wore the Oyama face paint during the final battle because it worked well. It really took a lot of the drama out of the ensuing cinemas.

Maggie
08-14-2007, 11:51 AM
I'll have to try that. The way I'm planning to fight the Boss is going to take the drama out of it, anyway.

Kishi
08-14-2007, 12:01 PM
My first time through the game, I never used the Scientist disguise, and I never picked up the Snow uniform, either. So when the time came to fight The Boss, I only noticed that Scientist would give me the highest camo index, without realizing that it would also completely compromise my options in combat. I actually died once before I realized it was a circumstance of my clothes and not a parameter of the battle.

Anonymooo
08-14-2007, 12:27 PM
I couldn't get close enough to hold up The End very much--my Metal Gear playing skills have gone downhill, so I was only able to do it two separate times. Since I was fighting him normally (not with the Mk22), I was about a half a screen away from him when he last spotted me, and ended up quickly standing and pegging him with the 1911 to get rid of the last of his health. Surprisingly anticlimactic/cinematic. XD

Next up: THE MIGHTIEST LADDER IN ALL OF VIDEO GAMES.

alexb
08-14-2007, 12:39 PM
I like the ladder. Somedays you feed on a tree fro~o~o~og.

Tomm Guycot
08-14-2007, 01:52 PM
I usually shotgun Boss once she's on the ground.

I mean... well, spoilers and stuff.

Jakanden
08-14-2007, 01:58 PM
You can kill The End within 5 days doing absolutely nothing, but I konw you wouldn't do that, right?.

Or just change the clock date on your PS2 and kill him that way.

Calorie Mate
08-14-2007, 02:08 PM
I, too, used to use the ol' Thermal Goggles / SVD method, but now I counter her CQC and kick the crap out of her. (PROTIP: Hold down Circle when you hear Snake grunt when she attacks...if you rely on your eyes or The Boss's noise, you'll be faked out and she'll counter you). (PROTIP2: The Boss is way harder on Hard difficulty, moreso than any of the other bosses. Not fun.)


So how are we handling talking about the ending? Should we spoiler tag it until it's become clear that everyone posting in the thread has beaten it?

TheSL
08-14-2007, 02:11 PM
Maybe we should just handle are story-related ending details in a separate thread.

Eusis
08-14-2007, 02:23 PM
Beyond Beyond The End?

I always used CQC when I faced her. I just went, knocked her to the ground, kicked a few times, then ran off to hide before she got up. That makes me feel like a sissy.

Maggie
08-14-2007, 02:44 PM
It's ok to hit girls if they're a boss.

...Big man.

Adrenaline
08-14-2007, 03:55 PM
Yeah, the whole ladder sequence is just classy.

Anonymooo
08-14-2007, 04:17 PM
That makes me feel like a sissy.What does that say about the people who hide in the grass and shoot her with a high-powered rifle, then?

I'm not looking forward to fighting The Fury. Every time I fight him, at least once I will always do very very well, and then die by falling off the edge of the stage.

Ulognep
08-14-2007, 06:28 PM
From the MGS 3 Part 1 thread...

Brandon said:
Did he ever call her (The Boss) his master at all? Maybe I was just reading some weird fanfiction at the time and it bled over into other parts of my life.

I said, knowing what type of fan fiction he was talking about:
Eewwwww! You know that's his mom, right?

TheSL said:
Ummm....no it isn't.

and Parish said:
Hey, everyone, please keep the story spoilage to a minimum here.

So I moved it to this thread because I'd like to know once and for all. In the Kojima productions Podcast #33, David Hayter talks about how the different main characters has had it rough. I don't know the quote exactly, but I think he said something along the lines of "Naked Snake had it bad too, he had to kill his mother." Does the game contradict this statement?

Adrenaline
08-14-2007, 06:41 PM
She's a mother figure, not actually his mother.

We do know who her son is, though.

Eusis
08-14-2007, 06:45 PM
Yeah, she's just a mother figure. Her actual son is Ocelot, or at least very heavily hinted to be.

Kishi
08-14-2007, 07:51 PM
I'm not looking forward to fighting The Fury. Every time I fight him, at least once I will always do very very well, and then die by falling off the edge of the stage.

If you're not worried about getting zero kills or the Fire camo, just go at him with the Survival Knife. He'll usually go down in a matter of seconds.

Alixsar
08-15-2007, 10:47 AM
I made it to The End tonight. Based on what I've heard of this encounter, I figured I probably didn't have enough time to get involved and decided to save it for tomorrow. Anyway, get chattin' -- I'll be along soon.

You didn't save in the area The End fights you in, did you? Because if you did, you might be in for a surprise when you load your save next time.

Adrenaline
08-15-2007, 12:21 PM
You didn't save in the area The End fights you in, did you? Because if you did, you might be in for a surprise when you load your save next time.

I think he's playing too quickly for that to happen.

Rosencrantz
08-15-2007, 01:02 PM
If you're not worried about getting zero kills or the Fire camo, just go at him with the Survival Knife. He'll usually go down in a matter of seconds.

I don't know if there's a better way to do it, since this is all I've ever done, but: for The Fury, I just go up to the northern door (the exit) and wait there until he passes by, then I can shoot him with the tranqs. It's boring and takes a little while longer, but it works.

Parish
08-15-2007, 01:14 PM
I took the east branch from the jungle before going north and saved there, so I have a save point immediately before the intro cinema for The End. I know better than to save during the battle, at least this time through the game -- maybe next playthrough I'll check out some of the alternative possibilities.

cortbassist89
08-15-2007, 01:19 PM
I wish I had known there was an armory in forest during this battle. I was going for a stamina-kill to get the old man's rifle. I ran out of tranq shots and had to punch-punch-kick my way to victory.

TheSL
08-15-2007, 01:52 PM
With the improved camera from Subsistence I killed The Fury with a roll/tranq combo(taking a page from my MGO strategies). While it did take a bit longer than something like knifing him to death, it did keep me from getting hit by the flamethrower very many times.

Adrenaline
08-15-2007, 05:41 PM
For those who haven't before, make sure you save and then load after getting tortured.

Anonymooo
08-15-2007, 05:56 PM
The Fury was riddled with bullets from the 1911, and as I was about to do a dramatic dive-from-cover-and-blast-with-shotgun to end the battle, my powers of stupid activated and Snake dove from cover... off the edge of the level. I'll redo this boss later on tonight. XD

Parish
08-16-2007, 08:37 PM
HELL ASS CRAP DOODY

I'd just begun this section when I was press-ganged into reviews of Phantom Hourglass and Metroid Prime. "Lucky!" you might think, but no! I'm annoyed. I was really getting into MGS3... and I'm just doing small reviews for EGM, not the big write-ups, so I've gotta drop everything I'm doing for 50 hours of gameplay that will result in a total of 300 words.

NYEAARGH

cortbassist89
08-16-2007, 08:44 PM
I always wondered, do you guys complete the games for the 300word write-ups? Or just play for a few hours like Seanbaby?

If you're forced to complete them, then damn, you should be pissed.

EDIT: I just realized you totally answered my question Parish. Sorry.

Maggie
08-16-2007, 08:49 PM
Now would be a good time to hide. Thank God we're all familiar with the camo index now.

cortbassist89
08-16-2007, 08:53 PM
Now would be a good time to hide. Thank God we're all familiar with the camo index now.
That would be a great way to both entertain and annoy people, sneaking around school/office, announcing your new camo index with each change of background.

Zef
08-16-2007, 09:13 PM
Now would be a good time to hide. Thank God we're all familiar with the camo index now.
You worry about the camo index. Me, I'm shooting all the frogs I can find and getting the stealth suit.

Eusis
08-16-2007, 09:29 PM
I want the stealth suit so I can raise hell. The nature of the game and how the AI has to be handled makes screwing with the guards infinitely more enjoyable than most other games.

Maggie
08-16-2007, 09:43 PM
That would be a great way to both entertain and annoy people, sneaking around school/office, announcing your new camo index with each change of background.

It's a Youtube-ation waiting to happen!

Parish
08-16-2007, 09:52 PM
I always wondered, do you guys complete the games for the 300word write-ups?
It's not 100%, but we always try to finish a game we're playing whenever we can. Like, there's no excuse for not finishing a ten-hour platformer. For a hundred-hour RPG, on the other hand, real life sometimes creeps in.

And when it comes to super-lengthy time sucks like that, I'm generally more likely to finish a game I loathe than one I love just to be fair and make sure it doesn't somehow become awesome at the end.

My job is more pointless than most people might think.

Maggie
08-16-2007, 09:59 PM
And when it comes to super-lengthy time sucks like that, I'm generally more likely to finish a game I loathe than one I love just to be fair and make sure it doesn't somehow become awesome at the end.



Which would, naturally, make anyone hate the game even more than they already would.

Yeah, it's sounding less and less fun.

Alex Scott
08-16-2007, 11:22 PM
At some point, I realized that I missed a few boss camos the first time I played through the game: specifically, the Pain and the Fury. I managed to get the Fury's camo, but only after a few tries. The third time, I couldn't get my mk22 up in time to cap him, so I punch-punch-kicked him, and defeated him with a dive roll. It was very satisfying. But I need to double-check on the Hornet Stripe.

I've also found that the Sorrow's camo, which prevents enemies from hearing your footsteps, makes things a LOT easier when you've already got Stealth Camo.

Adrenaline
08-17-2007, 04:33 AM
Maybe you don't get many words, but your opinion counts for a whole THIRD of the aggregate score! YEAH!

At least it's not 4 reviewers per game anymore?

Rosencrantz
08-18-2007, 03:32 PM
I'm going for an no-kill game this time and doing better than I expected (although I ran into a little trouble at the very beginning). I've already done a playthrough with only stamina kills on the bosses, so now I'm just trying not to get into a fix and end up killing all the soldiers. I'm finding that the game is taking a lot longer than usual because I'm spending more time crawling slowly.

Anyway, I just beat The End (and got my favorite weapon in the game, the Mosin Nagant - I wish you could get it earlier in the game) and I'm about to climb up the ladder. The following mountain is one of the worst parts in the game for me - it takes FOREVER to crawl around and avoid being spotted by the helicopter, and then even if I get to the last part without any trouble, I ultimately get spotted while going through those damn trenches. Or at least climbing out of one to get to the door.

Does anyone have any good tips for the mountain, aside from just "crawl slowly and take a long time"?

Tomm Guycot
08-18-2007, 04:16 PM
Does anyone have any good tips for the mountain, aside from just "crawl slowly and take a long time"?

For the end section, don't "go around the bend" on the lower level.

Climb up the side where there is a ledge overlooking that entire area. Then use your favorite weapon to subdue all the guards before you are anywhere near them.

Rosencrantz
08-18-2007, 05:41 PM
For the end section, don't "go around the bend" on the lower level.

Climb up the side where there is a ledge overlooking that entire area. Then use your favorite weapon to subdue all the guards before you are anywhere near them.

Cool, thanks. I'll give that a try.

Earlier, I got about halfway through the mountain when a guard came by me. I pulled out my trusty tranquilizer and shot him in the forehead... but blood splattered out. I picked the wrong handgun by accident. So, gotta start all over... and it was going so well, too...

Tomm Guycot
08-18-2007, 06:14 PM
Cool, thanks. I'll give that a try.

Earlier, I got about halfway through the mountain when a guard came by me. I pulled out my trusty tranquilizer and shot him in the forehead... but blood splattered out. I picked the wrong handgun by accident. So, gotta start all over... and it was going so well, too...

I did this same thing last time I played, attempting no-kill. His buddy saw me kill him (or maybe the handgun didn't have a suppressor on it?) so I celebrated by killing every guard in the area and blowing the chopper out of the sky.

And that was the end of that.

Maggie
08-18-2007, 06:27 PM
That just made me think of something morbid.

You know how in MGO, after a match, you could do a salute or whatever it is that each character does with Triangle?

I wonder if in the new MGO, after a match when you press triangle, Snake shoots himself in the head.

cortbassist89
08-18-2007, 06:31 PM
Persona 3 has made me want to make a parody of (and with) that Snake-puts-gun-in-mouth MGS4 trailer, in which he fires, but instead of blood, out comes: Jack Frost!

Alas, but I am much too lazy, and lacking photoshop/final cut pro

Kishi
08-18-2007, 09:10 PM
For those who haven't before, make sure you save and then load after getting tortured.

And after that certain event occurs, be sure to call everyone on your support team, especially--especially--Sigint. This is important.

Tomm Guycot
08-18-2007, 09:53 PM
And after that certain event occurs, be sure to call everyone on your support team, especially--especially--Sigint. This is important.

If you don't do this, you might as well turn off the game and never touch a controller again.

Maggie
08-18-2007, 09:55 PM
I didn't... I never did that.

I need to now.

Adrenaline
08-19-2007, 07:46 AM
If you don't do this, you might as well turn off the game and never touch a controller again.

It's even more fun if you had a conversation on the subject beforehand with Paramedic.

bobservo
08-19-2007, 11:42 AM
Maybe I'm asking this a little late, but does it count as a kill if enemies are stung to death by bees? I hope not.

alexb
08-19-2007, 01:11 PM
I think it does. I know it counts if you throw a snake on a guy and it kills him.

Lakupo
08-19-2007, 03:41 PM
I thought kills-by-poisonous-proxy didn't count? That's what I heard, anyway, but I can't find confirmation either way when I look around. Just that it's a fun thing to do! :P

Alex Scott
08-20-2007, 04:24 PM
It didn't count when I accidentally killed an Ocelot in Sokrovenno by dropping him off a ledge onto his head. The End was my only kill in the game.

bobservo
08-20-2007, 04:51 PM
I just barely got past The Fury today. In the non-Subsistence version, I cheesed the fight by sniping him from the doorway; I don't think he ever saw me. Today, I was set on fire 5 times, but managed to scrape by. His camo seems to be about as useful as The Pain's, though.

Calorie Mate
08-20-2007, 06:36 PM
I did this same thing last time I played, attempting no-kill. His buddy saw me kill him (or maybe the handgun didn't have a suppressor on it?) so I celebrated by killing every guard in the area and blowing the chopper out of the sky.

And that was the end of that.

I'm still the only person I know that's shot a helicopter out of the sky there by sniping the pilot in the head. You should practice more...Ingram. (Dun-dun-dun-duuuuunnnnnn)

Kishi
08-20-2007, 06:42 PM
I've done it--just to prove that I can, of course, as it's not what I'd call practical. Although it is pretty amusing that firing a single bullet into the cockpit somehow causes the entire Hind to suddenly snap in half and explode.

Lakupo
08-21-2007, 02:07 AM
It didn't count when I accidentally killed an Ocelot in Sokrovenno by dropping him off a ledge onto his head. The End was my only kill in the game.

Metal Gear Online made it clear that all deaths related to falling, including being dropped, counted as suicides. "*drops you off the mountainside cliff* Stop killing yourself! :D" So, that little idiosyncracy is just how it's counted.

Alex Scott
08-21-2007, 01:20 PM
Ah. I never got to play MG Online, so I would never have known that. I guess it also didn't count when I first played Subsistence a year and a half ago, and dropped a guy I'd tranqed into the river outside the warehouse.

alexb
08-21-2007, 01:39 PM
Speaking of MGO, maybe it was just me, but did it seem to anybody else that there were more cheaters than honest players?

Tomm Guycot
08-21-2007, 02:04 PM
Speaking of MGO, maybe it was just me, but did it seem to anybody else that there were more cheaters than honest players?

That was due to the fact two of the issues were straight up bugs. They COULD be done on purpose, but they could also just happen. Everyone playing turned into a crazy paranoid and if anyone did ANYTHING that could be perceived as cheating (which included their camera showing you at a weird angle) they would boot you.

I got booted a number of times and I KNOW I never cheated.

Rosencrantz
08-21-2007, 02:22 PM
Man, the motorcycle chase was cool the first time, but after that it's like "oh boy, time for slowly aiming and shooting at dudes for fifteen minutes".

...Hmm, I just realized that it's going to be even worse on my no-kill game, even with the infinite ammo you get.

Maggie
08-21-2007, 02:35 PM
That was due to the fact two of the issues were straight up bugs. They COULD be done on purpose, but they could also just happen. Everyone playing turned into a crazy paranoid and if anyone did ANYTHING that could be perceived as cheating (which included their camera showing you at a weird angle) they would boot you.

I got booted a number of times and I KNOW I never cheated.

This is true. And you know what was REALLY fun? Those knife only games in Graniny Gorki Labs where the person with the high score would hang off the railing, completely unkillable and wait for time to run out.

Kishi
08-21-2007, 02:42 PM
...Hmm, I just realized that it's going to be even worse on my no-kill game, even with the infinite ammo you get.

Fortunately, tranqing dudes during the bike chase doesn't count as killing--even for the guys on the hover platforms who smash into trees and explode as a result of it.

Maggie
08-21-2007, 03:33 PM
The most fun is trying to get the kerotans on the chase part.

Hoo boy. Good times.

Rosencrantz
08-21-2007, 04:41 PM
The most fun is trying to get the kerotans on the chase part.

Hoo boy. Good times.

Yes, that is EXACTLY where I gave up on the kerotans. After resetting the game over and over and over, I finally got fed up and quit.

Eusis
08-21-2007, 05:05 PM
Is it easier to deal with with Volgin's camo at least? I have that, so maybe I can be left alone to snipe them.

Maggie
08-21-2007, 06:18 PM
I think I ultimately just used the rocket launcher and hoped to god I hit them.

Mr. Sensible
08-22-2007, 01:03 AM
The most fun is trying to get the kerotans on the chase part.

Hoo boy. Good times.

Um. You mean you have to...shoot tiny frog dolls...while in a moving motorcycle sidecar going about 30-40 mph?

Kojima...we need to have a little heart-to-heart about the expectations you impose on your audience. Or maybe you just don't care.

On a sidenote, I did just start a no kills/no alerts playthrough. We'll see how far this gets before I finally give into the nagging voice that tells me this isn't really fun anymore.

Adrenaline
08-22-2007, 04:18 AM
Kojima...we need to have a little heart-to-heart about the expectations you impose on your audience. Or maybe you just don't care.

It's just a secret, so he can make it as ridiculous as he wants.