PDA

View Full Version : Mafia: The forum game


Pages : 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36

Destil
02-15-2010, 08:09 AM
So, I just sunk 4 hours into reading the game thread, and it's a fantastic read. Hats off to dtsund and all the players.

And I so want in on the next one.

(If I were the mafia I'd have killed Eddy off on day one so he had more time to work on his LP, too)

dtsund
02-15-2010, 08:20 AM
And yet it worked out for the best in the end. Hmm?

I'd like to give running the next game a try, but I'm willing to settle it with a vote and let whoever you guys want go next. Just one condition: Narrator chooses house rules.

But of course. I intend to have a 'master' list of rules, but only so that each new game master can start by saying how their game will deviate from them and save some time.

demonkoala
02-15-2010, 04:00 PM
You guys make me want to play the second game so hard. But I don't know if I can allot time to play this in the future, since I'm having enough trouble right now...

But, I am super excited to read the post game reports, and Brick's choice of Dizzy was interesting for last night (for this night, I could see it to be more likely, since he's more damned suspicious to me after he's cleared). I guess those will go into the Mafia Game 1 thread? Just thought we should clarify this now before things get really muddled.

dtsund
02-15-2010, 04:01 PM
You guys make me want to play the second game so hard. But I don't know if I can allot time to play this in the future, since I'm having enough trouble right now...

But, I am super excited to read the post game reports, and Brick's choice of Dizzy was interesting for last night (for this night, I could see it to be more likely, since he's more damned suspicious to me after he's cleared). I guess those will go into the Mafia Game 1 thread? Just thought we should clarify this now before things get really muddled.

Yeah, let's keep post-game discussion in the same thread as the game.

Brickroad
02-15-2010, 04:16 PM
And yet it worked out for the best in the end. Hmm?

I guess. Still, it was a pretty picard.jpg moment. =)

Comb Stranger
02-15-2010, 04:42 PM
I guess. Still, it was a pretty picard.jpg moment. =)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_S4WvmdY98-Q/Rv4tHYBhu2I/AAAAAAAABn0/Dj_miIH2BSY/s400/PicardInTheNude.jpg

demonkoala
02-15-2010, 05:14 PM
I really don't like snooping at player stats and how they've been posting and in accordance to this game...but can dtsund send a PM to Ruik to ensure he's still playing. He's only been posting in the tf2 thread aside from this, and this game is a lot better with full player participation D:

PapillonReel
02-15-2010, 08:47 PM
Oh holy fuck.

Rai
02-15-2010, 08:49 PM
So uh.

Right.

I need a time machine.

DemoWeasel
02-15-2010, 08:51 PM
Hehehehe. (http://priceisrightlosinghorn.com/)

dtsund
02-15-2010, 08:51 PM
So uh.

Right.

I need a time machine.

And it really is all your fault! I'm sorry, that was horrible of me and not really fair either.

Brickroad
02-15-2010, 08:54 PM
lmao

Hey Lucas, you know what would have been a really great defense post on your part?

Nerdy
02-15-2010, 08:55 PM
God damn. I'm lollin' here.

Lucas
02-15-2010, 08:57 PM
Hey Lucas, you know what would have been a really great defense post on your part?

Painting a big goddamned target on myself for the mafia?

So uh.

Right.

I need a time machine.

Don't worry, I think you did the right thing. Well, no, because I'm dead. But if I were in your shoes I probably would have done the same.

This seems a good time to say that I've never considered this game to have winners or losers, just survivors and the dead. And now that I'm incontrovertibly one of the latter, I can just sit back and laugh and laugh and laugh at what happens.

Brickroad
02-15-2010, 08:57 PM
God damn. I'm lollin' here.

MUST BE HARD TO LOL WITH THAT SHOTGUN IN YOUR MOUTH.

Brickroad
02-15-2010, 09:00 PM
Painting a big goddamned target on myself for the mafia?

Well, I'm sure we were all so convinced Comb Stranger was mafia that it might not have gone over well. No way to know now!

Of course now the million dollar question is... what prompted you to cover Comb Stranger on that fateful night?

...don't answer that. We'll save it for the postgame.

Thanks for the lulz.

Nerdy
02-15-2010, 09:00 PM
Making me laugh harder!

spineshark
02-15-2010, 09:04 PM
I guess this is the part where I take back calling the second angel a "genius" for saving Comb Stranger once =/

Brickroad
02-15-2010, 09:07 PM
There aren't enough picard.jpgs in the world to properly convey the civilian fuck-ups going on in this game.

Sprite
02-15-2010, 09:07 PM
I believe in the local dialect, this is known as
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

DemoWeasel
02-15-2010, 09:08 PM
There aren't enough picard.jpgs in the world to properly convey the civilian fuck-ups going on in this game.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs28/f/2008/100/e/3/FACEPALM_by_mayuzane.jpg

?

spineshark
02-15-2010, 09:10 PM
Well, you know, we were operating on the assumption that Angel #2 was already dead. In a way, this doesn't change much. Which doesn't mean it doesn't suck.

Silent Noise
02-15-2010, 09:11 PM
You guys are so screwed, thanks for making us lose and the laughs, We're all screwed and I can't stop, the fact that it was the other angel that accussed him really cinchs it. but really though if you had stated you were the angel then you could have protected someone that night instead of dying without benefits.

Brickroad
02-15-2010, 09:16 PM
Nah, we're not screwed. We're still gonna win.

You just have to ask yourself... which side am I on?

Comb Stranger
02-15-2010, 09:19 PM
Well, glad I was shot back when we were just lynching civilians.

Silent Noise
02-15-2010, 09:25 PM
Nah, we're not screwed. We're still gonna win.

You just have to ask yourself... which side am I on?

I know, you are probably right, but now the mafia have free reign to kill spineshark which would slow the game, Pappy so no one would be safe, or even you so no one could ever be sure, so be very choosy tonight pappy, it may be your last.

Paul le Fou
02-15-2010, 09:40 PM
what the bleeding fuck why didn't you fucking tellll usssssssss

Merus
02-15-2010, 09:44 PM
This just keeps getting better and better. I think the citizens can still eke out a win, but it's going to be close.

We have to give serious credence to the idea that Brick might be mafia.

Sprite
02-15-2010, 09:45 PM
This seems a good time to say that I've never considered this game to have winners or losers, just survivors and

YOU DIDN'T MAKE THE RULES DTSUND DID

Brickroad
02-15-2010, 09:48 PM
We have to give serious credence to the idea that Brick might be mafia.

As well you should. I think I'm kicking this game's fucking ass.

Sporophyte
02-15-2010, 09:58 PM
In the past I've been forced to endure a number of games of mafia. None of them were even remotely as interesting as the game you guys are playing.

Silent Noise
02-15-2010, 10:04 PM
No one likes this idea so screw it, I'm listening to you guys. The miller has no chance though, but the medium would be in. If possible then deaths would be written from what they ask me as to how to kill them. Do you want any changes to night? if so what? do you not want any changes? I really just want another fun thread to read, since I wouldn't be playing I want to put your wants first.

Vote Silent '10

"Silence is golden"

This message was approved by me, Silent Noise.

shivam
02-15-2010, 10:07 PM
why change the rules at all? i think the game as is has been just fine.

Brickroad
02-15-2010, 10:08 PM
I think Silent Noise just wants to add a bunch of things that sound super-cool to him.

Silent Noise
02-15-2010, 10:10 PM
why change the rules at all? i think the game as is has been just fine.

For fun, and I'm noticing that the mafia have a disadvantage from the start, I may try to give them a small equalizer.

Edit Brick I wouldn't put any original classes in, All I would do with classes is take out the miller and maybe use a Godfather depending on the amount of people, adding stuff I come up with would be fun but it wouldn't get me any votes. :P

shivam
02-15-2010, 10:10 PM
none of them have sounded like particularly good ideas so far. only needless complexities.

Brickroad
02-15-2010, 10:11 PM
For fun, and I'm noticing that the mafia have a disadvantage from the start, I may try to give them a small equalizer.

How can you possibly make this judgment, considering 1) the game isn't over yet and 2) we don't know who the Mafia are or how they've been playing?

Actually, don't answer that. We'll save it for the post-game discussion.

Sprite
02-15-2010, 10:12 PM
I think the Ghost faction/Mediums that were discussed a while back are a great idea, myself. I'm all for mixing up the rules a bit provided we don't go overboard like Epic Mafia.

Oh, and Noise? There's no way to ensure there's no cheating. This is the freaking internet.

Silent Noise
02-15-2010, 10:20 PM
How can you possibly make this judgment, considering 1) the game isn't over yet and 2) we don't know who the Mafia are or how they've been playing?

Actually, don't answer that. We'll save it for the post-game discussion.

Look at the number of kills they have to make, and I said I might do this. Yes lilsprite I am aware there would be cheating that couldn't be prevented so I'll cancel the bit about sending me a copy, as for the medium it's a very real possiblity.

Merus
02-15-2010, 10:23 PM
why change the rules at all? i think the game as is has been just fine.
I think there are things that could be changed - it's very frustrating for citizenry to not be able to do anything during night phase, for one thing. That tension might be a valuable component of the game, though, with special roles pushing hard for night.

I don't see allowing messages as a particularly good change, as it trivialises the basic tension of the game.

I think the game has been very interesting, though; part of it I credit to the people playing, and part of it I think is down to the ruleset. dtsund made intelligent choices, and I don't see any reason to deviate too far. (I think the Medium/Spirits idea is worth trying out, but I think the amount of information revealed has been interesting enough and wouldn't want to mess with that. It might be worth enforcing a lynch on day 1, as well.)

The only change I can think of to make night punchier that wouldn't have Consequences is giving the mafia an administrative role that can fill in for busy players, so night can be shortened.

I disagree that the mafia have an uphill battle. The core premise is that there's a small amount of players who know what's going on and a much larger majority that doesn't. For their first game, the mafia have played very well, and the town has sabotaged themselves again and again. Why mess with that?

shivam
02-15-2010, 10:31 PM
citizens being unable to act at night is the whole point. you have to debate as much as you can before night. at night, you quake with fear.

Rai
02-15-2010, 10:36 PM
God knows I'm scared right now.

I agree with the people who are saying that the rules don't need a huge change, what we have at the moment actually works fairly well. The Miller seems fairly pointless, as they just exist to essentially give the Mafia a 1-up that I'm not entirely sure, based on this game, that they warrant. I think any changes made would have to be put under some fairly strict scrutiny.

PapillonReel
02-15-2010, 10:40 PM
I've gone over the "add new things" subject a fair bit in my mind, and I think I narrowed it down to two roles I'd like to add that would introduce a twist to general game strategy. I'll hold off on them for now though, since the current game is going swell, and the regular formula is great enough on its own that it might be better to wait until we've got a few games under our belt before we introduce any major paradigm shifts.

Silent Noise
02-15-2010, 10:41 PM
citizens being unable to act at night is the whole point. you have to debate as much as you can before night. at night, you quake with fear.

Fear has been returned! I really need to stop posting this late, I always undercook my thoughts.

Red Hedgehog
02-15-2010, 10:43 PM
You guys have made forum Mafia far more interesting than I ever thought possible. I still don't think it's an entertaining game to be a player of, but as reading entertainment it is great.

Everyone's talking about adding roles. I'd take one away. I'm not a fan of the vigilante. Seems to add either randomness or more power for the civilian side.

Also, I have been rooting for the mafia this entire game. Go mafia!

Paul le Fou
02-15-2010, 10:44 PM
I think the Miller, for one, is kind of a useless role - it just adds a complication with little tactical nuance. If the inspector happens to find him, they put him up for suspicion and lynch him immediately and then you find out that he was just the fuck-you wildcard. And yeah, I don't think the mafia really need too much help in a game of paranoia and epic what-ifs. Especially if someone supposedly on your own side is a suicidal asshole grumble mumble

Giving the citizens something to do at night or at the least a little more agency would be my choice too if we decided to add anything. But I'm again not sure it's necessary.


Also, I'm officially(?) putting my hat in the ring for wanting to lead the next game (are we going to vote or what? I guess we can worry about that when this one is finished).

PapillonReel
02-15-2010, 10:57 PM
Since the next-game stuff is starting anyway, here's my two cents.

First off, seconding everyone here with getting rid of the Miller. He adds nothing to the game aside from making the Inspector's job harder, and effectively gives the Mafia a second lease on life when said role gets a false positive. Brick was right when it only adds confusion to the game and not any actual strategic value.

Secondly, I'd like to see these two roles added in:

The Officer(s): These guys are allied with the Civilians, and can decide on one person to imprison each night. The captured person becomes immune to nighttime death, but isn't allowed to post during the following daytime phase or PM during night. A captured Mafioso is considered as "dead" for the following phases, but his role will be kept secret from his captors. Officers will know who other Officers are, but won't know who the other special roles are.

The Thief: Same role as I mentioned before, but this time allied with the Mafia. He can choose to deactivate the powers of one person at night, but won't learn of the role of his target - in the flavour text, Angels will be treated as they didn't choose the victim to protect and Vigilantes will decide not to kill. If a Thief chooses the same target three times, his role will be made public.

Other roles I was considering were the Agent (can send and receive one message to/from one person), the Ghost (kills one person that accused or killed them that night), and the Stalker (Mafia-allied, learns the role of one target of their choosing per night, with special roles are notified when stalked), but they either wouldn't really add much to the game or would break it in half.

As for choosing who to go next, how's this: we vote on the VIP of the current Mafia game and they get to choose the Narrator for the next game. Nice and easy, and it allows for some fun come post-game debriefing.

Silent Noise
02-15-2010, 11:08 PM
So pappy let me get this straight, you want to decide on an MVP which would require a vote, and the mafia would have a different oppinion, to avoid a vote? Thief is very unlikely, it's kind of annoying to have a special thing that just breaks for no apparent reason, I don't think this would be very fun. Police is interesting, but I want to see other opinions on it. Here is a thought, make it so the vigilante can only go every other night, he seems overpowered, but tell me what you guys think.

PapillonReel
02-15-2010, 11:14 PM
Thief is very unlikely, it's kind of annoying to have a special thing that just breaks for no apparent reason, I don't think this would be very fun.

Being able to deactivate a special role's powers without sacrificing killing power would be a nice ability to have on the Mafia side. It'd help balance out the extra bulk from the Officers by giving them some means of investigating specific Citizens (but not to the point of breaking things wide open, like the Stalker), and besides, playing mind games on people is fun.

Also, Thieves are the best role in any game and I won't hear anything otherwise.

http://www.feplanet.net/media/sprites/7/battle/animations/ally/critical/matthew_thief_sword.gif

shivam
02-15-2010, 11:15 PM
the only change i'd make is no miller. there's no reason to add anyone else.

PapillonReel
02-15-2010, 11:16 PM
the only change i'd make is no miller. there's no reason to add anyone else.

You never know until you try. That's all I'll say on the matter.

Phantoon
02-15-2010, 11:16 PM
You know if we'd lynched Alice and shotgunned Lucas instead we'd still have 2 Angels and the Mafia would have been none the wiser.

I'm against extra roles. The single reason I trust Brick is that the Oracle hasn't spoken up. If we have power negating roles out there we'll never be able to trust anybody. Game to the Mafia.

Merus
02-15-2010, 11:18 PM
citizens being unable to act at night is the whole point. you have to debate as much as you can before night. at night, you quake with fear.

Yeah, the more I thought about it, the more I came to this conclusion, which is why I suggested speeding up the night phase instead of giving citizens abilities.

I don't like the idea of a role whose power is to take away the powers of the special players. The special players are there because people think powers are fun - to randomly snatch their toys away isn't fun, and if you want to make people's special powers less of a crutch, you just remove special roles altogether.

I don't get the point of the officers either.

I do have a suggestion - instead of players moving to accuse or move to night, and then voting yea or nay, players instead vote on who they want to lynch, and whoever gets a majority gets lynched. I don't think moving to night offers much strategic value, and I think the movements to accuse are unnecessary and restrict the strategies the mafia can use.

Regarding the vigilante: I think it's an interesting counterpart to the inspector. I'd be inclined to combine the Miller and the Vigilante: the Vigilante shows up as guilty to the Inspector. The entire point of the Miller role is to make the Inspector reports less of a slam-dunk. You could also do this by introducing a Clouseau, who is told they are an Inspector, but they receive reports that are inaccurate.

I feel like there should only be as many special roles as there are mafia players, which limits the variety in special roles that you can have.

PapillonReel
02-15-2010, 11:29 PM
Well, I know when I've been shot down. Worth a shot, though. :/ I'll totally get my chance one of these days, though.

I'm against changing the voting rules, though. I think they're working well enough as they are, and forcing people to pick a target might end up tying them to too many lynchings and implicate them through no fault of their own. At the very least, allow them to abstain - a vote to move to night still gives us information on a person without forcing them into a dilemma.

I feel like there should only be as many special roles as there are mafia players, which limits the variety in special roles that you can have.

If we do decide to add on new roles, then this should be the standard check. If you're narrating and there are more special players than Mafia, then odds are you went a little overboard.

Paul le Fou
02-15-2010, 11:31 PM
the only change i'd make is no miller. there's no reason to add anyone else.

I'd go with this, although Merus's idea that the vigilante combines with the Miller and shows up as guilty is interesting. For one, it limits the power of the vigilante and puts them in danger/mystery. Also it makes sense that they're guilty because the vigilante is after all a murderer.

I think I like the combined lynching vote too, with the possible caveat that the mandatory lynching not start until the second day - on the first day people may elect not to lynch and move directly to night phase. I'll have to dwell on it a bit.

Sprite
02-15-2010, 11:31 PM
I think the number of special players should equal the number of Mafia. No more, no less.
The entire point of the Miller role is to make the Inspector reports less of a slam-dunk.
Or secure the Inspector's identity. The Miller is the only "guilty" party a fake Inspector can't sacrifice to gain trust.
a Clouseau, who is told they are an Inspector, but they receive reports that are inaccurate.
I don't like this idea. The game's chaotic enough.
Regarding the vigilante: I think it's an interesting counterpart to the inspector. I'd be inclined to combine the Miller and the Vigilante: the Vigilante shows up as guilty to the Inspector.
This idea, however, I love, if only because it makes sense from a narrative standpoint. I also like it because it's still a screw-you wildcard, but not one that leaves civilians without options.

Brickroad
02-15-2010, 11:34 PM
WELL OK YOU GUYS TWISTED MY ARM.

Definitely put me in the anti-Miller camp. Not a fan. But then, he may yet shake up the game. Impossible to say.

I do have a suggestion - instead of players moving to accuse or move to night, and then voting yea or nay, players instead vote on who they want to lynch, and whoever gets a majority gets lynched. I don't think moving to night offers much strategic value, and I think the movements to accuse are unnecessary and restrict the strategies the mafia can use.

I like this idea. I've felt kind of restricted during the day by the "accuse/second/vote" structure, and it's been confusing in places. Maybe alter the day phase so it's 48 hours of discussion followed by 24 hours of voting, and no option to advance with no lynch.

Regarding the vigilante: I think it's an interesting counterpart to the inspector. I'd be inclined to combine the Miller and the Vigilante: the Vigilante shows up as guilty to the Inspector.

I like this idea too. Right now if the inspector catches the Miller, it's "Whoops! Well, at least we know our inspector is on the up-and-up!" Adding a bit of a sting would make the false positive a little more interesting.

I feel like there should only be as many special roles as there are mafia players, which limits the variety in special roles that you can have.

Special roles should never outnumber Mafia players, I agree. The main strength of the game should be regular citizens.

I would like to explore the ghost/medium idea. I don't see any downside in including dead players in some small way.

Merus
02-15-2010, 11:37 PM
Yeah, I'm not married to the Clouseau either. I'm just saying that you don't really want to make the Inspector's role a slam-dunk, considering how important they tend to be.

I think I like the combined lynching vote too, with the possible caveat that the mandatory lynching not start until the second day - on the first day people may elect not to lynch and move directly to night phase. I'll have to dwell on it a bit.

I'd go the other direction, honestly - you have to lynch someone on the first day, and on future days, you can vote to move to night. There's no point holding a vote on day 1 if you can just move to night, because it's such an overwhelmingly good strategy. Forcing people to vote for someone forces people to make moves, and gives players information they can then use more carefully later.

PapillonReel
02-15-2010, 11:38 PM
One thing I'd like to see is to shorten the night phase to 24 hours. It goes on for way too long as it is, and it seems like plenty of time for people to figure out who to protect/kill/inspect.

Also, the standard distribution for roles should be kept at 20% Mafia, 20% Special and 60% Citizenry no matter which way we go. It keeps things balanced by giving the Villagers a good head start while giving both sides equal nighttime ability.

Silent Noise
02-15-2010, 11:40 PM
Pappy I compleatly agree that thieves are always the best class, but this type of thief would be to powerful. By the way Brick I don't want to put in whatever I think is super cool, after reading the current thread I just want to see the next one get even better, this is my only reason why I want to lead. Question, would you guys like me to put a three day time limit on the day period? Someone mentioned this to me.

Dizzy
02-15-2010, 11:40 PM
Somebody is going to get an ass whupin' at the break of dawn.

Brickroad
02-15-2010, 11:42 PM
One thing I'd like to see is to shorten the night phase to 24 hours. It goes on for way too long as it is, and it seems like plenty of time for people to figure out who to protect/kill/inspect.

Bad idea. It's entirely possible someone might have legitimate reasons to miss an entire 24-hour cycle. A Mafioso who only gets around to checking the game once a day as it is, who has to skip a day for some reason, would miss the entire night.

Heck, imagine an inspector in that situation. "Whoops! Had to rush my kid to the ER last night, so nobody gets inspected. Sorry guys!"

shivam
02-15-2010, 11:42 PM
ok, vigilante/miller is a great idea. the rest, not so much.

PapillonReel
02-15-2010, 11:47 PM
Bad idea. It's entirely possible someone might have legitimate reasons to miss an entire 24-hour cycle. A Mafioso who only gets around to checking the game once a day as it is, who has to skip a day for some reason, would miss the entire night.

Heck, imagine an inspector in that situation. "Whoops! Had to rush my kid to the ER last night, so nobody gets inspected. Sorry guys!"

Fair enough, but we should try and find a way speed things up somehow. At the very least, maybe we could set it up so Night phase ends after 24 hours if the Narrator already has the information he needs - it's a pain in the ass waiting for a long time once you've already made your decision for the night.

Another idea for special roles: Would there be a way to add on daytime abilities? I think we have the night stuff mostly covered at this point, and maybe we could add a little twist to the mix.

Silent Noise
02-15-2010, 11:50 PM
ok, vigilante/miller is a great idea. the rest, not so much.

Consider them merged, this balances it out somewhat, except that if they get accused then they could easily prove who they are, the only drawback for them would be that the mafia knows who they are, so not too much of a change. Also would you really trust someone who doesn't know what birds are?

Merus
02-15-2010, 11:51 PM
Bad idea. It's entirely possible someone might have legitimate reasons to miss an entire 24-hour cycle. A Mafioso who only gets around to checking the game once a day as it is, who has to skip a day for some reason, would miss the entire night.

Heck, imagine an inspector in that situation. "Whoops! Had to rush my kid to the ER last night, so nobody gets inspected. Sorry guys!"

It's easy to extend the game night for longer so that people get a chance to participate if they haven't. We could also consider not requiring the mafia to have a unanimous vote so long as there wasn't any dissent.

Silent Noise, you're being awful presumptuous. I wouldn't go around assuming you're going to run the next game, especially since there are plenty of other people who'd like to do it.

Sprite
02-15-2010, 11:52 PM
I would like to explore the ghost/medium idea. I don't see any downside in including dead players in some small way.

Agreed. I feel bad for anyone killed in the early stages of the game.

I'm wondering how it should be organized, though. Should the Mediums know which Ghost is messaging them, and should the Ghosts know who the Mediums are? Also, if we had two Mediums, they would almost immediately know who one another were, with a little PM/post trickery ("if you're the Medium, pose ____"). That could be interesting, though, two players that know each other's identity, but aren't allowed to strategize. They'd have to be very careful how they react to one another, to avoid looking like they're in cahoots.

Torgo
02-15-2010, 11:54 PM
I had piddled out awhile back about halfway through where it is now, but I finally caught up on the thread this evening (I knew I had to go back and read everything once I read that people starting outing their roles) and holy shit!

I'm not sure how much fun I'd have or would be as a player (although I might not mind trying), but damn this is one of the best reads I've had in awhile.

Merus
02-16-2010, 12:00 AM
Agreed. I feel bad for anyone killed in the early stages of the game.

I'm wondering how it should be organized, though. Should the Mediums know which Ghost is messaging them, and should the Ghosts know who the Mediums are? Also, if we had two Mediums, they would almost immediately know who one another were, with a little PM/post trickery ("if you're the Medium, pose ____"). That could be interesting, though, two players that know each other's identity, but aren't allowed to strategize. They'd have to be very careful how they react to one another, to avoid looking like they're in cahoots.
I imagine it working like this: Ghosts know who Mediums are, and PM them directly. Mediums are not allowed to reply, or PM. They just get an inbox full of people trying to manipulate them. Because Ghosts keep their allegiances, Mediums need to be able to differentiate them, and so knowing who they are is important.

There is a risk of the Mediums knowing each other's identities with fancy footwork; it might be better to say it right out, that Mediums know each others' identities. They'll likely receive the same information anyway, so they'll be suspicious as hell.

Brickroad
02-16-2010, 12:01 AM
Keeping the night phase a static length is a good idea because it eliminates the possibility of bad metagaming. There are lots of little ways to metagame, from monitoring PM sendage to judging activity during phase transitions etc. It doesn't even need to be done intentionally; there are perfectly legitimate reasons I might be checking the "Who's Online?" at a specific time, and just happen to see so-and-so sending so-and-so a PM.

If night ends early/late we could make judgments like: "Night only lasted three hours. Obviously all the mafia and special players are super-active board members, which rules out X, Y and Z who we know are not very active."

I've been doing a lot of metagaming along the lines of "What do I know about this poster outside of the game, and what does this tell me about how s/he is likely to play it?" It has in fact shaped my game quite a bit. I'd eliminate that from my strategy if it were possible, but it isn't, and since it's not, I might as well use it.

ravinoff
02-16-2010, 12:07 AM
The fun thing about being dead when you play it in person is that usually you then observe the whole thing including the night stage, you see everything that is going on.

A way to simulate that might be for all the night stage PMs get sent to the dead players as well.

They obviously couldn't say anything about it to anyone. This does invite cheating I suppose.

Silent Noise
02-16-2010, 12:10 AM
Sorry if I sound presumptious Merus, I'm just wording it that way because I'm writing this all down, in all honesty I doubt I can be it since I'm so disliked, but look at it this way haters, I can't play the game if I'm directing it. Here is an idea, one medium and one angel, that way you could convince just one person instead of a bunch, just a thought, if you all want it I'd put it in.

shivam
02-16-2010, 12:16 AM
dude, it's not about hate, its about you grabbing control of something people haven't agreed to give you. if you want to be liked, then doing things like that is counterproductive.
Seriously, just be a good poster. That's all we ask.

Silent Noise
02-16-2010, 12:22 AM
dude, it's not about hate, its about you grabbing control of something people haven't agreed to give you. if you want to be liked, then doing things like that is counterproductive.
Seriously, just be a good poster. That's all we ask.

But I just... I'm not trying to sound like I'm assured that I get the role, I'm just afferming decision's that I make if I am elected, and you haven't seen my hate mail, I got one from someone that hasn't posted calling me a "glourious asshole".

Brickroad
02-16-2010, 12:34 AM
Silent Noise, I remember sending you a very detailed PM outlining things you could do to better fit in here, and I know at least one other poster has sent you a similar message.

As far as I can tell you have completely ignored those messages. As a result I am absolutely not interested in your bellyaching anymore.

Destil
02-16-2010, 01:03 AM
As well you should. I think I'm kicking this game's fucking ass.

Yeah, I've been thinking this since the big reveal, I'd say more but it's unfair for someone with an outside perspective to chime in. I'm rooting for the citizens (since I know who a few of them are for sure, and I don't get to watch the interaction within the mafia), but Brick's team has a serious advantage at this point, either way.

Note: I almost wonder how hard it would be to eliminate/screw with some of the metagaming with a sub-forum for mafia that only they could see? I'd also LOVE to be able to read their discourse after the game's over, which would be a bonus.

shivam
02-16-2010, 01:14 AM
thats a terrible idea. it's super easy to see who is posting in what forum, even if only a few people have access. might as well announce mafia from the start.

Destil
02-16-2010, 02:19 AM
thats a terrible idea. it's super easy to see who is posting in what forum, even if only a few people have access. might as well announce mafia from the start.

I was thinking it would be set up so people can't even see it it unless they're in the mafia while the game is going on. Which I think is possible in vBulletin but I'm not sure it's worth the effort or mod.

EDIT: Ah, right. The who's online panel. Never played with it before now.

Merus
02-16-2010, 04:53 AM
I'd also LOVE to be able to read their discourse after the game's over, which would be a bonus.

I'm sure the mafia will post some of their juicier PMs if we ask them nicely. Preferably before the game is over, but I'm easy either way.

Destil
02-16-2010, 05:59 AM
The more I think about it, the more I think it should be a good idea to make it against the rules in the future to use Who's Online to try and catch mafia activity. Like not talking about the game outside the thread during the day, it would need to be on the honor system.

... if not then I'm totally writing a robot that requests the page every 20 seconds, parses the result and compiles the data into a spreadsheet.

SpoonyGundam
02-16-2010, 06:40 AM
I do have a suggestion - instead of players moving to accuse or move to night, and then voting yea or nay, players instead vote on who they want to lynch, and whoever gets a majority gets lynched. I don't think moving to night offers much strategic value, and I think the movements to accuse are unnecessary and restrict the strategies the mafia can use.

This is how I always played it. I was really confused when I saw the way it was handled here.

There hasn't been any restriction on PMs/IMs among players currently in the game either.

Silent Noise
02-16-2010, 07:59 AM
Silent Noise, I remember sending you a very detailed PM outlining things you could do to better fit in here, and I know at least one other poster has sent you a similar message.

As far as I can tell you have completely ignored those messages. As a result I am absolutely not interested in your bellyaching anymore.

Well with that I'm leaving, I'm sorry for joining a forum when I wasn't old enough, Brickroad was the main reason I came here, I followed your PM, sorry.

Merus
02-16-2010, 08:07 AM
The more I think about it, the more I think it should be a good idea to make it against the rules in the future to use Who's Online to try and catch mafia activity. Like not talking about the game outside the thread during the day, it would need to be on the honor system.

One would assume this was covered under the rule where the actual thread is the only place information about the game should be. There will always be ways to metagame.

dwolfe
02-16-2010, 08:30 AM
I finally broke down and skimmed what's been going on in the game, and...my god, guys. I didn't expect this epic of a game! Good show, very entertaining. I can't wait for the After Action Reports thread.

I did try my best while I was alive to give people some hints on how to play/act, and there isn't enough picard.jpg in the world to express my feelings on this right now.

dtsund
02-16-2010, 08:42 AM
Something just dawned on me and I don't even know how much of an impact it will have but...

...during the night phase, couldn't someone check the "Who's Online?" forum function and look at the roster of people PMing each other and make some head or tails from that?

Yeah, when I was writing the rules, I didn't know this was even possible (to see who's PMing one another). It kind of goes against the spirit of the game, and I'd like people to refrain from it.

Gredlen
02-16-2010, 09:21 AM
I think you have those names mixed up there, chief.

Tanto
02-16-2010, 09:28 AM
So I guess this is where non-participating readers comment on the goings-on?

If so, then: Oh, snap!

dtsund
02-16-2010, 09:28 AM
I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about!

EDIT: This was in response to Gredlen. Feel free to talk about things here.

Sprite
02-16-2010, 09:32 AM
I finally broke down and skimmed what's been going on in the game, and...my god, guys. I didn't expect this epic of a game! Good show, very entertaining. I can't wait for the After Action Reports thread.

I did try my best while I was alive to give people some hints on how to play/act, and there isn't enough picard.jpg in the world to express my feelings on this right now.

I hope this means you'll play again.

dwolfe
02-16-2010, 10:10 AM
I hope this means you'll play again.

Well, of course I would if there's room. Someone needs to die ASAP to get you all into a nice, blood-thirsty rage ;)

Seriously, though, there were some issues that arose because it seems many people were playing for the first time and not sure what to do, but that'll change over time. My real concern going foward is that people's reputations on the forums stood in for actual gameplay/thinking. The very first, most fundamental rule is that you can't trust anyone, yet that's about the opposite of what happened for certain players, despite them reminding you that they might not be trustworthy.

If half the forum isn't actually playing the same game the rest of us are, it's kinda painful to watch. Again, picard.jpg x1000.

I hope dstund does the MVP awards at the end. I.e. most valuable to the Mafia, the Citizens, Teflon award (person that managed to survive against all odds), roleplaying, etc etc. Those are one of my favourite parts.

demonkoala
02-16-2010, 10:34 AM
I hope dstund does the MVP awards at the end. I.e. most valuable to the Mafia, the Citizens, Teflon award (person that managed to survive against all odds), roleplaying, etc etc. Those are one of my favourite parts.
This sounds brilliant.

Silent Noise
02-16-2010, 11:20 AM
This sounds brilliant.

This should be made mandatory.

dwolfe
02-16-2010, 11:47 AM
More awards: Crowning Moment of Evil/Good Awesome, Oops! (worst move), Which Side Was I On Again? (did the most for the other side)....

dtsund
02-16-2010, 12:03 PM
I hope dstund does the MVP awards at the end. I.e. most valuable to the Mafia, the Citizens, Teflon award (person that managed to survive against all odds), roleplaying, etc etc. Those are one of my favourite parts.

Was already planning on it! So thanks for spoiling it, jerk.

Dizzy
02-16-2010, 12:16 PM
My real concern going foward is that people's reputations on the forums stood in for actual gameplay/thinking. The very first, most fundamental rule is that you can't trust anyone, yet that's about the opposite of what happened for certain players, despite them reminding you that they might not be trustworthy.

Yeah, that was a dumb tactic. I thought we were all role-playing in some way (I think Brick was being way more officious and assertive than usual, for instance), not merely posting as ourselves 100 percent. And people may accuse me of being "Dizzy" in the game, whatever that is supposed to signify, but all my posts had sentiments and suspicions I was projecting that were consistent every time. I wasn't two-facing or being dodgy at all... unlike some people! But see, that was the game, not based on something outside the game.

As they say in The Wire, the game is the game. Nothing else is supposed to matter, really.

PapillonReel
02-16-2010, 12:27 PM
Oops! (worst move)

Man, this one's gonna be me for sure. Well, either me or Rai.

spineshark
02-16-2010, 12:34 PM
Man, this one's gonna be me for sure. Well, either me or Rai.
No way. Of all things, at least you were smart enough to tell us before we killed you.

Dizzy
02-16-2010, 12:37 PM
There's no predicting those bastard mobsters. We're all on our way out... act accordingly! damn I need stop quoting.

(I just realized this is like the perfect game adaptation of The Departed.)

Epithet
02-16-2010, 04:05 PM
Man, this one's gonna be me for sure. Well, either me or Rai.

Nah, I'd say it'd be me. Definitely.

dwolfe
02-16-2010, 04:21 PM
Was already planning on it! So thanks for spoiling it, jerk.

You could have...y'know...not said you were going to do that, so it was still a surprise! Besides, I wanted people to think about this and post their own awards in their AAR's. What seems significant to the one guy knowing all the roles might be different from a mere citizen's PoV.
......

On a different note, making this slightly RP-centric could fix the concerns I had about people getting confused between people's forum persona and the game persona, and also keep people from getting really hurt/enraged/rage qutting from it in the future. Cause I know everyone here doesn't want that to happen again, right?

It doesn't have to be super-serious or anything, just give it a little, say....1920s planet from the original Star Trek series, or pretend we're in the prohibition era (which gives people RP cover to hint at their roles or suspicions of others...or is it just flavour text?! This gives it valuable game-play implications) or something which is a much better idea that someone else would come up with.

tl;dr play it like it's a let's play make-believe game, not a RL game.

dtsund
02-16-2010, 05:48 PM
You could have...y'know...not said you were going to do that, so it was still a surprise!

I suppose I should apologize if it came across as me actually calling you a jerk; it's kind of hard to convey sarcasm over the internet. I was planning on awards, but I didn't actually mean you were a jerk...

Brickroad
02-16-2010, 06:22 PM
Actually, dtsund, I'm pretty sure you're the jerk.

You know what I'm talking about. Jerk.

dtsund
02-16-2010, 07:30 PM
Actually, dtsund, I'm pretty sure you're the jerk.

You know what I'm talking about. Jerk.

Yeah, I was snickering for about a straight hour after Lucas got lynched.

dwolfe
02-16-2010, 07:30 PM
Oh, I'm sure I'm the jerk but there's no JERK font/typesetting :)

My point being that people should suggest categories for awards. I'm going to nominate myself for 'Most Suicidal' as I didn't plan on living past day 2 of the game. You guys needed an example of suicidal leadership!

EDIT: if Lucas doesn't win most dumb move EVAR award..DAMN

Lucas
02-16-2010, 07:44 PM
Saying that was a dumb move implies I didn't want to get lynched.

Merus
02-16-2010, 07:57 PM
Saying that was a dumb move implies I didn't want to get lynched.
So you're going for the 'what team am I on' award, are you?

Comb Stranger
02-16-2010, 08:14 PM
I vote that resident comicographer Deptford illustrate the nightly happenings. Silent Noise getting shot in the second panel by a random good samaritan, Umby being shot by everyone in town, Brick the dapper crab detective, Lucas getting lynched with his own halo, it's comic gold.

dwolfe
02-16-2010, 08:16 PM
Saying that was a dumb move implies I didn't want to get lynched.

Seriously? Seriously??!!

Why the hell would you want to get lynched as a special-power?! Please, please, explain it to us. Why the flying f*ck do you think I stated back on day 2 that I was a normal citizen?! For my own chances at surviving, or so you'd f*cking say so?! You could have at least bought a day for brick to investigate you (assuming brick is actually the inspector, obviously).

Please, explain the strategy of this in your AAR. Deciding to quit the game and suicide, even.

dwolfe
02-16-2010, 08:17 PM
I vote that resident comicographer Deptford illustrate the nightly happenings. Silent Noise getting shot in the second panel by a random good samaritan, Umby being shot by everyone in town, Brick the dapper crab detective, Lucas getting lynched with his own halo, it's comic gold.

Variants of Mafia actually do have houses/villas and locations, and people can be informed during the night actions that 'someone' passed by during the night killings. But it's an awful lot of work for the GM of the game.

Lucas
02-16-2010, 08:22 PM
Seriously? Seriously??!!

Why the hell would you want to get lynched as a special-power?! Please, please, explain it to us. Why the flying f*ck do you think I stated back on day 2 that I was a normal citizen?! For my own chances at surviving, or so you'd f*cking say so?! You could have at least bought a day for brick to investigate you (assuming brick is actually the inspector, obviously).

Please, explain the strategy of this in your AAR. Deciding to quit the game and suicide, even.

Who says I wanted to get lynched? I haven't said nothin', merely commented on what others have said.

Paul le Fou
02-16-2010, 08:27 PM
Saying that was a dumb move implies I didn't want to get lynched.

Well you either wanted to get lynched or are astonishingly stupid, and you played a good enough game for me to rule out the latter. What happened, you just got annoyed and didn't feel like playing anymore?

dwolfe
02-16-2010, 08:28 PM
Who says I wanted to get lynched? I haven't said nothin', merely commented on what others have said.

Again, once the game is over, can you post an After Action Report (AAR), as I'd absolutely LOVE to hear the explanation for your actions. Many others would as well. It's not a criticism of how you played it, just confusion.

Sayin' Nothin' during the game was kinda the point I was making, man. I'm not trying to be mean, but it's one of those incomprehensible moves without your AAR to make sense of it at this point. There were no citizen factions/PM's to form good-guy factions to explain it, afaik, so I'm genuinely puzzled.

Sprite
02-16-2010, 08:40 PM
In a world torn by Mafia oppression

One man has the power to fight back

A renegade angel who doesn't play by the rules

*montage of explosions*

But he's about to find out

The one thing he couldn't save

Was himself

Lucas is

The Second Angel
in
Never Say Die

dtsund
02-16-2010, 09:11 PM
Actually, dtsund, I'm pretty sure you're the jerk.

You know what I'm talking about. Jerk.

Y'know, it's been a few hours and I'm still happy I did it. I guess I really am a jerk.

...I can explain after the game's over.

Sprite
02-16-2010, 09:15 PM
Great, now I'm worried the GM is Mafia.

Brickroad
02-16-2010, 09:22 PM
Great, now I'm worried the GM is Mafia.

You and I both are Mafia.

I mean honestly now.

Rai
02-16-2010, 09:39 PM
Well, that seals it, everyone is mafia and no one is safe. Especially me.

Seriously though. Why the hell did I do that.

Brickroad
02-16-2010, 09:44 PM
You're double-Mafia.

Gredlen
02-16-2010, 09:46 PM
I'm not playing this game. But I'm mafia.

Lucas
02-16-2010, 09:48 PM
Seriously though. Why the hell did I do that.

You were honest and stuck to your guns noose. I respect that at least. The death of a special role is just something that'll happen sometimes in this game, and it's not even like the citizens don't have a chance now or anything. Quit beating yourself up over it.

Merus
02-16-2010, 10:02 PM
In a world torn by Mafia oppression

One man has the power to fight back

A renegade angel who doesn't play by the rules

*montage of explosions*

But he's about to find out

The one thing he couldn't save

Was himself

Lucas is

The Second Angel
in
Never Say What Your Role Is

Fixed.

PapillonReel
02-17-2010, 08:11 PM
Welp, I guess that's it for me. :I

Comb Stranger
02-17-2010, 08:16 PM
I guess that's it for the citizenry.

Nerdy
02-17-2010, 08:21 PM
III had no idea I was the Miller.

Lucas
02-17-2010, 08:21 PM
Man, you guys are such pessimists.

Rai
02-17-2010, 08:28 PM
The citizenry isn't completely screwed!

Just mostly.

Sprite
02-17-2010, 08:38 PM
III had no idea I was the Miller.

Congratulations! You were special the whole time!

PapillonReel
02-17-2010, 08:56 PM
The citizenry isn't completely screwed!

Just mostly.

The funniest thing is, if Lucas and I were still alive to protect ourselves, we'd only need to kill three Mafiosos in order to checkmate them. Oops!

I can't wait for the post-game réports to start coming in. This game are sick.

Lucas
02-17-2010, 10:52 PM
What, you mean so that it was just you, me, and two mafia? That would be a mafia win, I believe. And suddenly now I'm trustworthy just because I was an angel?

PapillonReel
02-17-2010, 10:57 PM
Remember, there were four Mafia left at the time of your lynching. With two angels protecting themselves, we'd be guaranteed a win after killing only three more (as a sole Mafioso would be completely unable to kill us during nighttime and confirmation would make us lynchproof).

And yeah, confirming you were an angel did a lot to help your credibility. I'd say more, but I'm waiting for the postgame for that.

On another note, it's interesting that the conclusion for this game is going to be entirely dependant on trust - and not in the way you'd think.

PapillonReel
02-17-2010, 11:00 PM
Oh Ruik, you magnificent bastard.

Brickroad
02-17-2010, 11:11 PM
This game takes you to weird places. I would have never expected back on day one that the game would somehow end up in this extremely peculiar state.

I LOVE IT.

Lucas
02-17-2010, 11:13 PM
Oh, three more mafia. Yeah, that makes sense.

Torgo
02-17-2010, 11:23 PM
Shit just got real today.

Ruik
02-17-2010, 11:49 PM
Oh Ruik, you magnificent bastard.

I.. But... Why...

I can't tell if you are insulting or complimenting me.

PapillonReel
02-17-2010, 11:51 PM
I.. But... Why...

I can't tell if you are insulting or complimenting me.

Latter. Shit just got even realer.

Torgo
02-18-2010, 12:05 AM
Seriously. I had long since figured the Oracle had gotten bumped early on.

Unless he has.

shivam
02-18-2010, 12:12 AM
what the fuck guys. this is like a soap opera or something. next, dtsund is going to reveal that silent noise had a twin brother THE WHOLE TIME.

Ruik
02-18-2010, 12:15 AM
dun dun dunnnnn

PapillonReel
02-18-2010, 12:34 AM
No More Angels (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbdgJC9H8pA), it's save or be saved
Look after nobody but yourself, less some asked you to
No More Angels, send crooks to their grave
So that they won't then go after you

*beep* LUCAS, IT'S SAVE OR BE SAVED

So on day one we find
Some Mafia infiltrate us -
I don't suppose you know what it is they're thinking.

They off some guys for you
Eddie takes a bad tumble down.
What is it we'll do now?

(You gotta flush out the quiet guys, get 'em in the open)
(You gotta nail 'em together)
I'm not sure it's right

(Then work out who to trust, workin' a bloc out)
And when it's safe we'll win out in the end

Buddy, I'm not sure I like what you're saying down there
So let me get inside your head
Turns out he's the first of two angels
Making a move that's dumb
Now we're pretty much dead

No More Angels, it's save or be saved
Look after nobody but yourself, less some asked you to
No More Angels, send crooks to their grave
So that they won't then go after you

Don't think they cannot see
What it is we're talking 'bout now
Make sure we know when it is you're foolin'

'kay dwolfe, the jig is up
Right now, I got your number
Oh wait, you're a good guy

(We gotta fix it, right now else we got a problem) Damn straight it is
(Cross-check the killers) I'm sure it'll work
(Some guys stand out here, lookin' at these ones) For now, odds are good these are the guys

Hey there, you haven't been doing much in the thread
So let me get inside your head
Oops, turns out he was the other Angel
And now, looks like he's gone
Now we're pretty much dead

No More Angels, it's save or be saved
Look after nobody but yourself, less some asked you to
No More Angels, send crooks to their grave
So that they won't then go after you

Right now, Brick's got it all. The looks, the spice... the Inspector's advice. That hat he wears compliments with his sound logic... yeah. No love for that Mafia assassin, who sends a semi crashing through Reel's speakeasy. It doesn't bother you, it takes away from him and me. Because there's no more Angels. Yeah, there's no more Angels. No where to go, but with your Brachyura hero.

No more Angels, yeah. No More angels. There's no where to go, but with your Brachyura hero.

Don't give up...
The game's still there...
Inside your head...

No More Angels, it's save or be saved
Look after nobody but yourself, less some asked you to
No More Angels, send crooks to their grave
So that they won't then go after you

No More Angels, it's save or be saved
Look after nobody but yourself, less some asked you to
No More Angels, send crooks to their grave
So that they won't then go after you

No More Angels, it's save or be saved
Look after nobody but yourself, less some asked you to
No More Angels, send crooks to their grave
So that they won't then go after you

No More Angels, it's save or be saved
Look after nobody but yourself, less some asked you to
No More Angels, send crooks to their grave
So that they won't then go after you

Torgo
02-18-2010, 12:59 AM
Re: Dizzy's claim of oracle-hood

FFFFFFFFFFFF-

Now I'm starting to want in on the next game. My brain is starting to go from passive observing to active analysis, and the fact that I can't participate is killing me.

Destil
02-18-2010, 01:07 AM
Re: Dizzy's claim of oracle-hood

FFFFFFFFFFFF-

Now I'm starting to want in on the next game. My brain is starting to go from passive observing to active analysis, and the fact that I can't participate is killing me.

You and me both, buddy, You and me both.

Brickroad
02-18-2010, 01:17 AM
Haha... I look forward to doing business with the both of you. =)

Dizzy
02-18-2010, 01:52 AM
I have got to catch some ZzzzZZZzzz. Damn this game sucked me in all night!

Merus
02-18-2010, 02:21 AM
I strongly doubt this is the best game of forum mafia ever played, but I really want to see anyone else do better.

spineshark
02-18-2010, 02:32 AM
I think today's lynch is the climax, and after that I'm not sure there's any possible denouement that hasn't occurred to me in the past few hours. Still, I can't say this was not completely crazy. I don't think you *could* try to beat it. It's not like you can just lynch Angels at the worst possible time on purpose.

Rai
02-18-2010, 05:33 AM
Yep, today's lynch is the most important lynch in the game. Unless we end up having to lynch Brick tomorrow, at which point that is.

Is there a point where shit just becomes too real? Because we have to be hurtling there at supersonic speeds.

Brickroad
02-18-2010, 05:35 AM
I'm already posing as a team as hard as I can.

Sprite
02-18-2010, 09:33 AM
I strongly doubt this is the best game of forum mafia ever played, but I really want to see anyone else do better.

For real. This is, by far, the most fun I've ever had on Talking Time. It's gotten to the point where I'm talking about the game in real life. My roommates are having a hard time figuring out my enthusiasm for the Make Believe Murder Mystery With Internet Friends.

Also, Pappy, why wasn't that your farewell post?

PapillonReel
02-18-2010, 11:16 AM
Also, Pappy, why wasn't that your farewell post?

Because I didn't about writing it until afterwards. :(

Destil
02-18-2010, 01:17 PM
Haha... I look forward to doing business with the both of you. =)

And there's the other reason I'm keeping quite on a few things. I have some thoughts/observations no one has brought up that will be relevant to the next game, and I'm keeping those to myself for now :D

$5 says Brick gets me killed in some way next game.

Eddie
02-19-2010, 09:52 AM
So I was thinking about the Oracle position, and I was wondering what everyone thought about the idea of making it more powerful by NOT revealing a persons allegiance when they are killed, either by the Mafia, vigilante, or good ol' fashion hanging. Only the oracle would know if the group has lynched one of their own.

Of course, this would make the decision by the real citizens a lot harder, so I would also propose that the inspector also reveals a person's role (Miller of course still reads as "Mafia Scum"), and/or having TWO oracles.

I think really tho, I just like the idea of bumping the power of the Oracle up to the level of an inspector.

- Eddie

Traumadore
02-19-2010, 09:57 AM
Yeah, I have never played mafia or werewolf where the person's role is revealed when they die. I can see how it has influenced your game by downplaying the oracle and making things more calculated in general.

Sprite
02-19-2010, 11:13 AM
I think revealing the person's role to the faction that kills them has been my favorite part of this variant so far, and the primary source of strategy. Information is power, after all. I would push hard against any attempt to take that aspect out. There's enough randomness already.

As far as the Oracle goes, people are pretty down on its usefulness, but its become surprisingly crucial to the current game. I don't think we need to change it.

dwolfe
02-19-2010, 12:53 PM
I think revealing the person's role to the faction that kills them

Huh? Nope. The mafia get to see the results of lynch's as well as citizens.

PapillonReel
02-19-2010, 12:58 PM
Huh? Nope. The mafia get to see the results of lynch's as well as citizens.

That's what he said, tho. The information goes to the faction that gets the kill, and both Mafia and Citizenry get a say on a lynching.

Emcee Escher
02-19-2010, 05:47 PM
If both the Mafia and the Vigilante target someone, does the Vigilante still know the person's identity?

dtsund
02-19-2010, 06:01 PM
If both the Mafia and the Vigilante target someone, does the Vigilante still know the person's identity?

Yep, they both do.

Kylie
02-19-2010, 06:51 PM
I take the LSAT in 11 hours. It is a terrible coincidence that about six hours ago, I checked out this mafia thread. After completely finishing it (finally): Holy Shit this thing is epic. I want in, next time around, and if I bomb my LSATs I lay responsibility for it upon Talking Time for tempting me with this as I studied logic and argument.

AWESOME OMG.

Kylie
02-19-2010, 06:54 PM
I have a question - out of curiosity, and despite probability, if the Mafia and Vigilante both target the same victim, is the intervention of a single Angel enough to protect the poor chump from both attempts?

dtsund
02-19-2010, 06:59 PM
I take the LSAT in 11 hours. It is a terrible coincidence that about six hours ago, I checked out this mafia thread. After completely finishing it (finally): Holy Shit this thing is epic. I want in, next time around, and if I bomb my LSATs I lay responsibility for it upon Talking Time for tempting me with this as I studied logic and argument.

AWESOME OMG.

Weeell... it could be argued that this game is itself a study of both logic and argument.

On the other hand, see my title. :)

I have a question - out of curiosity, and despite probability, if the Mafia and Vigilante both target the same victim, is the intervention of a single Angel enough to protect the poor chump from both attempts?

Yes.

spineshark
02-19-2010, 07:05 PM
Damn, that's a relief.

Merus
02-19-2010, 07:16 PM
[14:09] Shinji-Fox: yay! Things are looking up for the citizens.
[14:09] Merus: Ahahahaha I drive a Gremlin
[14:10] Shinji-Fox: perhaps three!
[14:10] Shinji-Fox: perhaps four?
[14:10] Merus: How could I get into four Gremlins at once? It's impossible.
[14:10] Merus: Don't be silly
[14:10] Merus: You silly weasel
[14:12] Shinji-Fox: one limb in each car
[14:12] Shinji-Fox: you have gremlins for feet
[14:12] Shinji-Fox: and gremlins for hands
[14:13] Merus: But that will make it very difficult to steer, and it would be extremely unsafe.
[14:13] Merus: If two of those Gremlins touch, it's all over

Umby
02-19-2010, 07:38 PM
Damn, that's a relief.

I don't mean to tease, but it's kinda funny to read the thread knowing who the mafia is. I find myself saying, "Man, those townspeople are real idiots!" and "It took a long time to lynch Ruik, ya know." But what's so stupid about this is that I probably would have just as much clue as you guys, and would probably be the guy to lead us to our unfortunate doom.

dtsund
02-19-2010, 07:40 PM
I don't mean to tease, but it's kinda funny to read the thread knowing who the mafia is. I find myself saying, "Man, those townspeople are real idiots!" and "It took a long time to lynch Ruik, ya know." But what's so stupid about this is that I probably would have just as much clue as you guys, and would probably be the guy to lead us to our unfortunate doom.

...out of curiosity, how do you know who the Mafia are?

Umby
02-19-2010, 07:54 PM
...out of curiosity, how do you know who the Mafia are?

From Epithet, who I know in real life. I asked him, and since I was already dead, he revealed it. I haven't told anyone else, obviously. Then it wouldn't be fun.

dtsund
02-19-2010, 07:54 PM
Ah, okay. Fair enough.

Garrison
02-19-2010, 08:04 PM
I just got done reading through all 40 pages of the game. Man, this thing got way too intense for me to stop. Normally I just casually browse TT, but for whatever reason I thought it might be worth reading and somehow the hours flew by. I'm not sure how I'd never heard of this game before, but I gotta get me a slice of this cake sometime.

Dizzy
02-19-2010, 09:14 PM
*pops open a champagne bottle*

Gentlemen? Success.

It's nice to see pages and pages of shaggy theorizing come to fruition.

shivam
02-19-2010, 09:47 PM
man, dizzy, my hat's off to you. masterfully played.

Torgo
02-19-2010, 10:25 PM
Well, at least the Civvies finally lynched someone guilty.

Rai
02-19-2010, 11:14 PM
Perfect end to a pretty good day, I'd say.

Brickroad
02-19-2010, 11:49 PM
Fuck yeah!

Dizzy, you really came through for us bro.

Merus
02-20-2010, 01:02 AM
Fuck yeah!

Dizzy, you really came through for us bro.
Came through for the citizens, Brick. I won't rule out a suicide move, but it was a stupid one considering circumstances - Dizzy's exposed himself as a target.

Well, I was right at the start of the day.

Let's not call the game just yet; we were calling the game for the Town yesterday, and the Mafia are very much back in the game today.

There's four of them left, and seven bloc members once Brick checks in. It comes down to catching mafia, just like it was always going to.

Consider: the mafia probably aren't going to execute Brickroad if he's mafia. In two days, we'll know for sure, and then we'll know that there are mafia players on the bloc - Rai and Dizzy.

Team Mafia can definitely bounce back from this point, especially with a few bad lynchings. There are 11 players left, and right now they win if the population reaches six. By my reckoning, the citizens have three strikes to find a mafia player, and I think we might get an extra strike every mafia player we kill. They can bounce back, but Team Town is in a very strong position.

I don't know what the mafia will do, but I'll be very curious to find out. spineshark definitely has the potential for an awesome play.

spineshark
02-20-2010, 01:22 AM
Mafia are either killing Brick or me. I need to yomi their asses really hard.

Merus
02-20-2010, 02:29 AM
Mafia are either killing Brick or me. I need to yomi their asses really hard.
Yeah, don't envy you at all. Although I can think of a couple of other really good targets: both you guys have powers, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're the biggest threats. Demonkoala exposed Epithet with his run-to-night gambit; Dizzy exposed Ruik.

I'm reading the thread again. It's fun to read, knowing what we know now.

Phantoon
02-20-2010, 04:07 AM
They may have to kill Dizzy before Brick now. If he is the Oracle he'll be able to confirm the bloc and that's surely the last thing they'll want.

Merus
02-20-2010, 04:56 AM
It'll be interesting to see what they do; of course, it won't save them.

There's only one player I can think of that'd really do some damage, but obviously I'm not going to name them out loud. The important thing is that killing Brickroad is no longer as clear-cut as it seems.

Tanto
02-20-2010, 09:26 AM
I'm not ashamed to admit that I actually pumped my fist when I read that Ruik was mafia. And I'm not even playing!

Silent Noise
02-20-2010, 09:30 AM
Come on Ruik, since I'm dead you can tell me who the other mafia's are, (not in this thread of course) I can't wait to see who the evil mastermind was all along.

By the way, I formally drop out of the run to be gamemaster, I want to play dammit, especially now that my friend is joining, he's amazing at this sort of thing.

tl;dr Sign me up for the next game, this time I'm going to live past the first day.

Warg
02-20-2010, 09:56 AM
I know that quite a few folks here, myself included, are excited about how the game's going to turn out -- but, er, some of the past few posts here from current players could just about be interpreted as night phase discussion.

Do be careful.

dtsund
02-20-2010, 10:24 AM
It's been skirting the boundaries for a bit, yeah. I was ready to post if anyone stepped over the line, but so far it hasn't quite happened yet, I think.

Gredlen
02-20-2010, 10:29 AM
It's been skirting the boundaries for a bit, yeah. I was ready to post if anyone stepped over the line, but so far it hasn't quite happened yet, I think.

Alright, spineshark, you should hit dtsund tonight. I think he's on to us. Brick, investigate Tomm. He knows a little too much about Rocket Knight, if you get my drift.

Tomorrow, we'll lynch Parish. This "Retronauts" is clearly a money-laundering front for the mob. Let's do a quick count here, so we know we've got enough votes for that.

Ruik
02-20-2010, 11:50 AM
I've had a complete blast playing. But it's really eaten into my time in ways that I can't afford being in school. As much as I'd like to play the next game, I think I'm going to have to sit it out.

Brickroad
02-20-2010, 11:54 AM
I've had a complete blast playing. But it's really eaten into my time in ways that I can't afford being in school. As much as I'd like to play the next game, I think I'm going to have to sit it out.

No problem dude. Pleasure stringing you up. =)

dwolfe
02-20-2010, 01:22 PM
Note to self: being honest gets you killed. lying gets you killed. Talking too much gets you killed. Talking too little gets you killed.

The only way to win is to not play the game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHWjlCaIrQo)...yet I'd still like to play again. What is wrong with me?! Didn't Wargames (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WarGames)teach me anything? Or DEFCON (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEFCON_%28video_game%29)?

Dizzy
02-20-2010, 01:26 PM
I've had a complete blast playing. But it's really eaten into my time in ways that I can't afford being in school. As much as I'd like to play the next game, I think I'm going to have to sit it out.

Me too. I'm having my bit of good fun now but I think I enjoy sleep a lot more. :p

Brickroad
02-20-2010, 01:29 PM
Note to self: being honest gets you killed. lying gets you killed. Talking too much gets you killed. Talking too little gets you killed.

This game is complicated.

Sprite
02-20-2010, 01:35 PM
This game has a lot of chance involved, is what it comes down to. It's not really possible for Civilians to properly strategize until a few days in.

I'm glad to see the route we took was a good one, even if it wasn't the one I wanted. Dizzy, hats off for a perfectly timed reveal. Ruik, I applaud your gambit; it was incredibly risky but it almost worked.

Brickroad
02-20-2010, 01:38 PM
Ruik, I applaud your gambit; it was incredibly risky but it almost worked.

No it didn't.

(But we'll talk about it in the post-game. =))

Phantoon
02-20-2010, 01:40 PM
I'm certainly down for the next games. Sleep is overrated.

Destil
02-20-2010, 06:07 PM
Note to self: being honest gets you killed. lying gets you killed. Talking too much gets you killed. Talking too little gets you killed.

The only way to win is to not play the game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHWjlCaIrQo)...yet I'd still like to play again. What is wrong with me?! Didn't Wargames (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WarGames)teach me anything? Or DEFCON (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEFCON_%28video_game%29)?

Er, no. You're a citizen. You team is still in this to win. You don't loose when you die, you loose when the mafia equal the number of the living. Part of the reason I really want to believe both Brick and Merus as an outsider rooting for the good guys is that these two get this principle, and are willing to call for their own lynching if they think it would strengthen the cause. It's a smart move in some cases.

Rai
02-20-2010, 06:14 PM
Yeah, pretty much. It's been a blast playing, but even those who have died haven't lost yet. Your deaths haven't been in vain! For the most part.

Brickroad
02-20-2010, 06:37 PM
Well some of them have been in vain. Lucas's death was pretty much needlessly stupid.

demonkoala
02-20-2010, 07:27 PM
Man, I miss out on all the crazy votes. :[

dwolfe
02-20-2010, 10:51 PM
Er, no. You're a citizen. You team is still in this to win. You don't loose when you die, you loose when the mafia equal the number of the living. Part of the reason I really want to believe both Brick and Merus as an outsider rooting for the good guys is that these two get this principle, and are willing to call for their own lynching if they think it would strengthen the cause. It's a smart move in some cases.

Then you really forgot where I was fine with getting lynched on day two, didn't you? because if mafia lost i still won? jeez

Brickroad
02-20-2010, 11:04 PM
Actually we're playing a little known variant of Mafia where dead citizens only win if their forum handle isn't dwolfe.

Sorry dude. =(

spineshark
02-20-2010, 11:04 PM
Then you really forgot where I was fine with getting lynched on day two, didn't you? because if mafia lost i still won? jeez
Well, that stopped happening on day 3. I figured you just learned your lesson.

Merus
02-20-2010, 11:18 PM
Actually we're playing a little known variant of Mafia where dead citizens only win if their forum handle isn't dwolfe.

Sorry dude. =(

Tends not to get played much because there's not a lot of forums where there's someone named dwolfe, but it's tradition. You know how those can be.

dwolfe
02-20-2010, 11:24 PM
Actually we're playing a little known variant of Mafia where dead citizens only win if their forum handle isn't dwolfe.

Sorry dude. =(

Isn't one of the talking time/gamespite variant rules you can't run a mafia game without?

Man, I thought people would appreciate a good Wargames joke more than this!

dtsund
02-20-2010, 11:25 PM
It's okay, dwolfe. I got it, at least, and I didn't even need to click the links.

Brickroad
02-20-2010, 11:31 PM
Man, I thought people would appreciate a good Wargames joke more than this!

Sorry, it went over my head.

I have a very, very short head. =(

Merus
02-20-2010, 11:53 PM
I succumbed to peer pressure!

dwolfe
02-21-2010, 07:26 AM
Sorry, it went over my head.

I have a very, very short head. =(

You just need to rewatch Wargames. Everyone should!

Wait...don't do that, the rest of us want a chance to win against you!

Lucas
02-21-2010, 08:54 AM
Wouldn't we just have to not play against him to win?

Sprite
02-21-2010, 11:34 AM
I succumbed to peer pressure!

I didn't! I head my head high!

Oh wait, I wasn't playing when dwolfe was lynched.

dwolfe
02-21-2010, 02:42 PM
Wouldn't we just have to not play against him to win?

This man, he gets it!

Kylie
02-21-2010, 04:16 PM
No, he's still wrong.

In order to win, you have to refrain from playing entirely. Whether or not it's against dwolfe is immaterial.

dwolfe
02-21-2010, 04:18 PM
Lucas was referring to not playing against brickroad, who, unlike myself, is still alive in the game somehow.

Lucas
02-21-2010, 04:29 PM
Moreover, I was referring only to winning that specific game. There are other people I can not play against to win other games.

Kylie
02-21-2010, 04:31 PM
Duly corrected! Carry on playing and/or not-playing, as appropriate!

dtsund
02-21-2010, 09:14 PM
It is over!

Warg
02-21-2010, 09:18 PM
So, wait -- really? The rest of the Mafia just resigned?

Rai
02-21-2010, 09:19 PM
To be fair, they stood less than a chance at winning after Brickroad was lynched.

Brickroad
02-21-2010, 09:22 PM
I suggest we do the post-game discussion in that thread, and discussion/planning for our next game in this one, so as not to get the two topics too terribly confused.

Thanks for bringing Mafia to Talking Time, dtsund.

PapillonReel
02-21-2010, 09:23 PM
Yeah, they were pretty much fucked the moment Brickroad was revealed to be the Inspector - which is a shame, because by all means they vastly outplayed the Citizenry for nearly the entire game. The more I look at it, the more the Mafia might be a little underpowered, methinks.

Anyway, I'mma head over to the game thread now for the debriefing. Thanks for the fun, guys!

Silent Noise
02-21-2010, 09:23 PM
Really? It's hard to believe it's finally over. By the way, NEVER KILL OUT OF SPITE VIGILANTE, you could potentially screw everyone. It's kind of suprising to see how long ago it started.

dtsund
02-21-2010, 09:31 PM
Thanks for bringing Mafia to Talking Time, dtsund.

It was my pleasure, really. :)

Yeah, they were pretty much fucked the moment Brickroad was revealed to be the Inspector - which is a shame, because by all means they vastly outplayed the Citizenry for nearly the entire game. The more I look at it, the more the Mafia might be a little underpowered, methinks.

Anyway, I'mma head over to the game thread now for the debriefing. Thanks for the fun, guys!

Well, I did make the argument in the other thread that they were really unlucky. Having said that, if I were starting this exact game again with the same players and knowing what I know now, I might have a sixth Mafia member. That's it, though.

kaisel
02-21-2010, 09:42 PM
Yeah, they were pretty much fucked the moment Brickroad was revealed to be the Inspector - which is a shame, because by all means they vastly outplayed the Citizenry for nearly the entire game. The more I look at it, the more the Mafia might be a little underpowered, methinks.

Anyway, I'mma head over to the game thread now for the debriefing. Thanks for the fun, guys!

I think the mafia are a little underpowered, but not overwhelmingly so. We just played bad by not killing Brickroad when we had the chance. An extra mafioso, I think, would make it a little more balanced, but it wasn't impossible, we were great at staying hidden, but I, at least, wasn't great at the grand strategizing.

Dizzy
02-21-2010, 09:54 PM
The game might be more challenging with the mafia equal to the number of citizens and also having the same power roles. That would be a long, involving game with people petering out but for those interested it would have the same kind of intensity that chess has.

Comb Stranger
02-21-2010, 10:27 PM
The game might be more challenging with the mafia equal to the number of citizens and also having the same power roles. That would be a long, involving game with people petering out but for those interested it would have the same kind of intensity that chess has.

The Mafia can PM, and know who they are. The citizens don't. That's a HUUUUUUUGE advantage. And pitting two groups of citizens against each other would be just... chaos.

PapillonReel
02-21-2010, 10:36 PM
An idea: How about introducing a third faction? Some of the Mafia rulesets include a Warlock that will win if he/she predicts three lynches in a row and NOT with the standard Mafia/Citizen win, so maybe we could work something like that into a future game.

Silent Noise
02-21-2010, 10:41 PM
An idea: How about introducing a third faction? Some of the Mafia rulesets include a Warlock that will win if he/she predicts three lynches in a row and NOT with the standard Mafia/Citizen win, so maybe we could work something like that into a future game.

How would this contribute to the game in the way that simple bets outside doesn't?

PapillonReel
02-21-2010, 10:50 PM
How would this contribute to the game in the way that simple bets outside doesn't?

By adding a new contender for both the Mafia and Citizenry to deal with without being redundant about it? Make it a small faction, and they'd have a considerable voting power during the daytime, adding yet another mind game for seasoned players to deal with when deciding on following a lynch or vetoing it (such as the Mafia would have to be careful about not being too eager and falling for a trap).

It'd also make for interesting alliances, as the Citizenry could count on the Warlocks being able to act as a voting Bloc but being careful not to give them too many lynches while they're at it - or, alternatively, teaming up with the Mafia to root them out as quickly as possible. I'd say it's worth a shot somewhere down the line.

Paul le Fou
02-21-2010, 10:58 PM
My personal inclination is to stick with our current setup except for switching the false guilty from the Miller onto the Vigilante. We could try the alternate voting that Merus and others have put forward, too (i.e. votes on whom to lynch, most votes gets strung up, can't move to night phase), just to shake things up a bit and so it doesn't feel too much like more-of-the-same. Maybe next time around mess with something a little more substantial.

Were people still interested in the Medium idea? Should we hash out something more concrete on that if we decide we want to put it in after all?

PapillonReel
02-21-2010, 11:04 PM
My personal inclination is to stick with our current setup except for switching the false guilty from the Miller onto the Vigilante. We could try the alternate voting that Merus and others have put forward, too (i.e. votes on whom to lynch, most votes gets strung up, can't move to night phase), just to shake things up a bit and so it doesn't feel too much like more-of-the-same. Maybe next time around mess with something a little more substantial.

Yeah, I meant it more as a "maybe later" kind of idea - it was just on my mind the past few days and thought now was a good time to bring it up. >_>

Anyway, as far as current ideas go, I'm in favour of the Miller switch and new voting rules, but the Medium idea might be a tad too complex to try at the moment - maybe save it for later once we see how round 2 goes. I'm honestly leaning more and more towards keeping the core rules after how tense things were in the last few days of this game; I honestly was biting my nails at those last few votes.

By the way, who's gonna be the Narrator for the next game? Anyone interested on taking up the mantle?

Merus
02-21-2010, 11:09 PM
I've actually come around on the move to night phase thing - if we use the Medium/Spirits idea, moving to night phase denies the Spirits a new member, and someone has to die to get any protection at all. I think it can make the game slower, but I think the voting system might make the game more dynamic anyway so it's worth the risk.

I'm very ambivalent about adding factions - I think it's better to mess with the numbers for the roles we already have (for instance: one angel, two inspectors would result in a very different game) and I haven't heard any particularly compelling roles yet.

Edit: I would like to be Narrator.

Dizzy
02-21-2010, 11:19 PM
If there was a way to shorten the amount of time for discussion and schedule the voting to happen at a time which every player could make, I'd probably join the next game. As is, the players have to make sure they are on the game almost all the time when it is their turn to play or risk losing a lot for their lack of participation.

I feel like discussion and voting should be split up into two short periods scheduled at a time players will definitely be on, and last for a specific amount of time, no more no less. Reading through pages and pages of messy speculations and attending every action by dstund (which almost always happened at midnight where I'm at) was a drag.

No discussion should happen immediately after the narrator's announcements. Instead that should be saved for the planned discussion some time after, with voting taking place some time after that. This might extend the amount of time the game lasts between day/night periods, but then you don't have folks who sign up and discover they can barely participate.

EDIT: My idea might hinder the psychological aspect of the game though.

Brickroad
02-21-2010, 11:26 PM
Paul's got it right: let's make minor tweaks to the system rather than adding new roles/factions/jellybeans.

I don't really know how we could "schedule" discussion times... the thread was pretty active at all times and everyone has different schedules. Maybe it's better we just let all potential players know that they should expect to spend 30-40 minutes at least once per day getting caught up on and participating in the thread.

I was totally against replacing players mid-game. I didn't say anything because I didn't want to cause any strife while the game was still going on. I changed my mind when Dizzy turned out to be the Oracle, though; losing a special player due to inactivity would really suck out loud.

I think Merus would do a great job running the next game, if only because both citizens and mafia had a very strong "Brick/Merus" mindset and breaking that up will make Round 2 feel a bit different. (And because I have no desire to be GM. Heh.)

Silent Noise
02-21-2010, 11:29 PM
I'm heavily against changing the voting setup.

Merus
02-21-2010, 11:43 PM
I don't think it's fair to restrict when people can post and play - people chafe enough at the restriction to not post during night phase, and that's essential to the game.

Edit: If people are leaning towards changes, we should get them out in the thread so people could take a look at them (please post reasons, incidentally). I'm thinking the following, in order of how strongly I'm willing to argue for them:

1) No Miller role; the Vigilante is guilty to Inspections.
2) Maybe more mafia.
3) Change quantities of special roles, so maybe less angels and/or more inspectors, vigilantes or oracles.
4) Replace Angel role with Medium role; players who die become Spirits, and are allowed to converse with one another and send messages to Mediums. Spirits nominate players to receive protection, up to the amount of players still in the game.

Advantages of Medium/Spirits:
* Gives dead players something to do
* Gives mediums information and knowledge, making their role more exciting
* Reduces death penalty, encouraging riskier play
* Makes protection harder to control

Disadvantages of Medium/Spirits:
* Reduces death penalty, encouraging careless play
* Eliminates penalty for special roles dying in obscurity
* Makes protection more likely to be used well, especially during end-game
* Mediums are less susceptible to paranoia

(The more time goes on the more reasons I come up with for the Medium being a bad idea. It might still be worth a shot, but it does change things considerably.)

My current thinking for the Medium is as follows: Spirits would confer, then PM the Narrator with their nominations and a message for the Medium/s. At dawn, the Narrator would compile the messages and send it to the Mediums. I'm not sure if the Narrator would make Mediums known to the Mediums or the Spirits, and I can imagine the Narrator declaring that messages from Spirits are prone to corruption and mischievously change key words, like "If you're a medium, say 'banana'."

But anyway I think the other three are good ideas.

shivam
02-21-2010, 11:47 PM
did dizzy join in midway?

Dizzy
02-21-2010, 11:48 PM
I don't think it's fair to restrict when people can post and play - people chafe enough at the restriction to not post during night phase, and that's essential to the game.

Those people kinda were breaking the rules, and they were the most active in any case. Not the ones like Alice, Ruik or the inactive players for instance. I might have to agree with Brick though, but only because I think it would be impossible to find the perfect time for everyone and having things more loose formed would be better. The problem is you get people who participate more than others and decide the pace of the game for themselves.

did dizzy join in midway?

Yeah. I took over Wolf and hit the jackpot with one of the most useless roles to become useful.

Destil
02-21-2010, 11:50 PM
Paul's got it right: let's make minor tweaks to the system rather than adding new roles/factions/jellybeans.

...

I think Merus would do a great job running the next game, if only because both citizens and mafia had a very strong "Brick/Merus" mindset and breaking that up will make Round 2 feel a bit different. (And because I have no desire to be GM. Heh.)Thirded. Merus, from everything I know of him, is the sort I'd love to have GMing any game I'm in.

As far as roles, what about 1 angel/1 medium. The problem I see with the medium is that it's either
A) A lot of work on the GM, because they need to be the go-between for all posts to him/her.
B) Easy for them to ignore most misinformation (i.e. "Well, we lynched X and he was mafia, so I'm sure as hell not listening to him/her").

Still, I think it's a cool and interesting option and would give dead players a voice. It's hard to sit on the sidelines and watch as a bystander, if I had any added information it would have very likely killed me.

Torgo
02-21-2010, 11:52 PM
I gotta agree with Silent Noise about not changing the vote setup. The current way is certainly a little more time consuming, but it allows for more focused discussion. Just having everyone blather off a name (or list of names) of people that they'd like to string up and tallying it up is pretty 'eh' to me, and in a game that can already can chaotic, there's simply too much that could slip through the cracks if everyone's having at it with everyone they want to lynch and why, people rebutting, ect. The "trail" system feels a lot more appropriate and structured.

Big time yes on nixing the Miller and giving that "power" to the Vigilante. I'd like to see how that plays out.

Destil
02-21-2010, 11:54 PM
Also, was Brick's role 'Inspector' or 'Rorschach'?

... from the journal I'm leaning towards the latter.

Dizzy
02-21-2010, 11:55 PM
Instead of the miller turning up guilty why not make the miller lethal? It would be cool since the miller wouldn't even know themselves.

If the citizens lynch the miller, the first citizen to accuse the miller dies.
If the vigilante kills the miller, the vigilante dies.
If the inspector inspects the miller, death to inspector.
If the mafia hit upon the miller, one of them dies.

Paul le Fou
02-21-2010, 11:56 PM
Time limits are a bad idea. Case in point: Merus and I both live in Oceania, and are at work during peak evening hours for most of you. Brick works the night shift and so his schedule is off. And that's just three people.

Ruik
02-21-2010, 11:56 PM
Hey, just a quick note about the Medium role you guys are discussing; the max number of people you can PM at once is 5. So you'd need to copypasta every PM and send it multiple times to be able to message everyone in the ghost group once it got over 5-6 people.

Merus
02-22-2010, 12:09 AM
Hey, just a quick note about the Medium role you guys are discussing; the max number of people you can PM at once is 5. So you'd need to copypasta every PM and send it multiple times to be able to message everyone in the ghost group once it got over 5-6 people.

It would also mean that you can't have mafia groups over 6 without it splintering. Hmm.

Is there anyone else interested in being Narrator?

PapillonReel
02-22-2010, 12:15 AM
I'd like to try my hand at Narrating a game in the future, even if only because I'm determined at there being a Zelda 2-esque shake-up somewhere down the line. As far as I'm concerned, I'm taking the Pokémon approach to new roles: You'll never know for certain if something will work until you test it out. At the very least, I'd like to see some of the default roles dtsund left out added in somewhere down the line.

That said, NO DAYTIME LIMITS. If anything, daytime should play out for as long as possible because that's when all the action happens, "messy speculations" and all; taking all that stuff out in order to make time would just cut the heart out of the game.

Mediums I'm indecisive of, but hey, it could be fun. Why not?

Anyway! Now that game 1's wrapped up, I think we should get to work on deciding on the next Narrator. Any idea how we should decide on this?

spineshark
02-22-2010, 12:15 AM
I bet we can talk to Match next game if we need a couple more Mafia roles.

Also, I would maybe be up to host the next one, though I can guarantee I wouldn't do nearly as good a job as dtsund.

Torgo
02-22-2010, 12:16 AM
Any idea how we should decide on this?
Quickly. :)

Brickroad
02-22-2010, 12:18 AM
Anyway! Now that game 1's wrapped up, I think we should get to work on deciding on the next Narrator. Any idea how we should decide on this?

Easy: we put all of Merus's names into a hat, then pick one at random.

Silent Noise
02-22-2010, 12:18 AM
Never have more then one vigilante unless the number of people is 40+ I've done it before with thirty people and two vigilantes and it was terrible. Two oracles would probably make things harder for the mafia. I don't know about inspectors, but 2-3 angels is probably for the best. I neglected to mention it but I'm a mafia game veteren.

Oh and I vote Merus to be the GM.

Paul le Fou
02-22-2010, 12:21 AM
I am definitely still interested in narrating/running the next game, too.

PapillonReel
02-22-2010, 12:27 AM
Current Narrator nominees:
•Merus
•PapillonReel
•Paul le Fou
•spineshark

Any other volunteers? If not, odds are this is going to be one-sided, but let's get on with it anyway.

Silent Noise
02-22-2010, 12:38 AM
Current Narrator nominees:
•Merus
•PapillonReel
•Paul le Fou
•spineshark

Any other volunteers? If not, odds are this is going to be one-sided, but let's get on with it anyway.

After this one you're my top dog, but for now I officially vote for Merus.

But if there aren't any angels in the setup, my vote shifts.

Merus
02-22-2010, 12:42 AM
I imagine we'd take a vote, either for next Narrator, or for MVP and let them decide.

Phantoon
02-22-2010, 01:35 AM
The only thing I'd have changed about the last game is 1 more Mafioso. They mainly lost because they were unlucky and didn't know how some of the game mechanics work. I think they were slightly underpowered though.

No change to day phase either. I'm on GMT and there's no time that I can be "guaranteed" to be on that's good for other people.