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Mogri
12-13-2011, 04:08 PM
Robot Masters are already mafia. Light's power fails on a recruited robot.

Other townies are very likely to all be recruitable robots.

botticus
12-13-2011, 04:09 PM
It seemed like a good idea at the time. (The Wiki, not the image)

JohnB
12-13-2011, 04:10 PM
TO BE MORE EXPLICIT ABOUT THIS: Do not visit the TT Mafia in its current state from work.

Jesus.

Is that the goatsecx guy?

Dizzy
12-13-2011, 05:19 PM
EDIT: To be more blunt: if someone from here did that, FUCK YOU. That shit's not cool.

I did it.

I fucking did it.

It was me!

Guild also didn't die from an aneurysm. I killed him. Mwahahahaurghurgh.

McClain
12-13-2011, 05:26 PM
I did it.

I fucking did it.

It was me!

Guild also didn't die from an aneurysm. I killed him. Mwahahahaurghurgh.

Congratulations, you are the first person I'm blocking on TT. Go fuck yourself.

poetfox
12-13-2011, 06:41 PM
I guess it's pitch time? Here I go!

Gather round! Gather round, fillies and gentlecolts. Gather and listen to a tale very few of you have heard, but one that everypony should know. I am Sweetsong, bard by trade, brought here to your fine town with a message, a story, and it would mean so much if you would listen.
Now, most of you have heard the tale of the six ponies from a small town called Ponyville, who gathered together and, with the Elements of Harmony, defeated the chaotic Discord, returning peace to our fair land. But what few know is the story that happened after. The story of what happened to those six brave ponies after their victory. It is a story of deceit, deception, and death. It is a story of broken bonds, and broken promises. It is a story of one town’s struggle to survive against insurmountable odds. It is a story of ponies, of us, of Equestria itself. Gather round, and listen to the tale of the Avatars of Discord.

My Little Mafia: The Avatars of Discord

Players will either be citizens of Ponyville, one of the Mane 6, or an Avatar of Discord. Normal citizens of Ponyville have no powers, but have been empowered to vote and lynch, as per usual. The Mane 6 are the powered citizens, and can also vote and such, of course. The Avatars of Discord are the Mafia. They get a night chat, as per usual, and a night kill. They are also empowered. All players will have a pony persona assigned to them in their PMs, including the Avatars, who have killed and replaced other ponies in their evil quest with their doppleganger-like powers.
The avatars win if they kill all of the Mane 6, or establish a voting majority. The town wins if all the avatars are destroyed.

Days are the standard 72 hours. Nights are the standard 48. Ties in voting are broken first by who has the most members of the Mane 6 voting for them, and if there is still a tie, then by dice roll.

The Mane 6
Twilight Sparkle: Representing the Element of Magic, Twilight is a master spellcaster. Once per night, she may cast a scrying spell and inspect a player, finding out their affiliation as either citizen, avatar, or member of the Mane 6.

Applejack: Representing the Element of Honesty, Applejack is a hard working, athletic pony with significant skills with a lasso. Once per night, Applejack may lasso and tie up a player, keeping them from using any powers they may or may not have that night.

Rainbow Dash: Representing the Element of Loyalty, Rainbow Dash’s speed is unmatched. Rainbow Dash may choose to perform a Sonic Rainboom during the night. This will be announced publicly, though who used the ability will not be revealed. That day, her vote will count for double, though again, this won’t be revealed publicly unless it breaks a tie or something of that nature. However, the act of doing such a complicated trick will tire her out, and she won’t be able to use the ability the next night.

Fluttershy: Representing the Element of Kindness, Fluttershy has learned many ways to be nice. Once per night, Fluttershy can pick a player. If that player were to die from a nightkill, Fluttershy’s care will save them instead, leaving them alive. If she saves someone, though, she’ll be exhausted, and won’t be able to pick another player to save for two nights of rest.

Pinkie Pie: Representing the Element of Laughter, Pinkie Pie knows how to throw a party. Once per day, Pinkie Pie can send a message to the GM requesting an invitation to a private party be sent to a player. She can then night chat with that player the following night, though the identities of either side of the conversation will not be revealed by the GM.

Rarity: Representing the Element of Generosity, Rarity knows that good fashion can be helpful in even the most dire of times. During the night Rarity can elect to create a stunning outfit for a player, and send it to them as a gift. That player will wear the outfit the next day, and be looking so overwhelmingly fabulous that nobody will be able to vote for them. That a person is wearing such an outfit will be public knowledge. However, once Rarity has given such a gift, she won’t be able to give one the next night, as it takes time to create a new outfit.

The Avatars of Discord
Avatar of Evil: This spirit has been blessed with the ability to look into the darkness of one’s soul, and find out what’s truly there. Once per night, the spirit can inspect a player, and learn if that player is a normal citizen or member of the Mane 6. That information won’t be available until the next day starts, however.

Avatar of Lies: This spirit is made of pure disinformation. Once per night, the spirit can pick a player to forge the identity of for any inspections that night and any lynches the next day. The avatar may pick whatever they’d like to come up as their false report.

Avatar of Mutiny: This spirit is built to hinder co-operation. Once per game, this spirit may, before a day moves into its final 24 hours, put a fog of mutiny over the town of Ponyville. All players must switch their votes, and may not vote for who they currently have a vote on that day. Anyone who does not change their vote is considered to have not voted.

Avatar of Darkness: This spirit dislikes the light, in all its forms. Once per game, the spirit may, during the night, elect to make the next day shorter by 24 hours.

Avatar of Madness: This spirit enjoys playing tricks, and breaking down the walls of sanity. Once per day, this spirit can send a message to the GM requesting that an invitation to a private party be sent to a player. The spirit can then night chat with that player the following night, though the identities of either side of the conversation will not be revealed by the GM.

Avatar of Silence: This spirit is jealous of the voices of ponies, and steals them away. During the night, this spirit may elect one player to silence during the next game day. That player can only vote, but not otherwise communicate. No shenanigans with voting to get around the spirit of the power, please.

Mogri
12-13-2011, 07:14 PM
I'm not saying that this is a good idea, or that anyone should contribute, but I couldn't help but create a TT Mafia Wiki. (http://ttmafia.wikia.com/wiki/Talking_Time_Mafia!_Wiki)

Enter at your own risk.

I added a template (please feel free to mess with it) and did some updatin' on the M16 page when I noticed that you were also editing it.

McClain
12-13-2011, 07:16 PM
I added a template (please feel free to mess with it) and did some updatin' on the M16 page when I noticed that you were also editing it.

hahah, that's awesome, thanks!

Brickroad
12-13-2011, 07:16 PM
I disagree. You set a time limit and you stick to it.

Yes, this.

Sunglassesdog.

breakman
12-13-2011, 07:28 PM
Well, if we're not playing soon, it's pitch time, right?

Mega Man Mafia


Hey, what the...?!

I've actually been working on a Mega Man X Mafia idea, but it's overly-complicated (probably) and I'm not sure I would want to run it.

Mogri
12-13-2011, 07:44 PM
Hey, what the...?!

I've actually been working on a Mega Man X Mafia idea, but it's overly-complicated (probably) and I'm not sure I would want to run it.
If you would be interested in co-modding MMM, that would be fine by me!

Yimothy
12-13-2011, 08:00 PM
I won't be putting up my pitch again. In the unlikely event that someone else wants to run it or borrow elements for their own game, they're welcome to it.

breakman
12-13-2011, 08:12 PM
If you would be interested in co-modding MMM, that would be fine by me!

Thanks, but I think I'd rather be a player in that game.

Brickroad
12-13-2011, 08:16 PM
Oh, uh, I'm putting Organization back in, if Eddie's still up to co-running.

Also I think Dizzy is Guild, and always has been.

Dizzy
12-13-2011, 08:53 PM
Also I think Dizzy is Guild, and always has been.

But who is controlling who?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_fkfAmXXwWyk/SPKUy0ug_JI/AAAAAAAAAws/b78vJFlWUTs/s400/ventriloquist.jpg

breakman
12-13-2011, 09:20 PM
What, seriously? You were on both sides in M14?

Adam
12-13-2011, 09:33 PM
When did you guys start listening to anything Dizzy has to say?

I mean you really have no one to blame but yourselves.

Dizzy
12-13-2011, 09:46 PM
No, no, no Adam. Their hunches are correct and this is something I've been withholding for too long.

Guild is truly my sock puppet and I've been playing both sides this entire time.

Ta-da!

Brickroad
12-14-2011, 07:03 PM
So is anyone actually updating the wiki? Because nothing seems to have appeared on it all day.

I would play Ponymafia but not Megamafia. I'm done with games with mystery rulesets. M14 was fun, but it wasn't a game, really.

Mogri
12-14-2011, 07:10 PM
So is anyone actually updating the wiki? Because nothing seems to have appeared on it all day.

Yes. The sidebar will tell you which pages were recently updated.

I added information on game formats that is probably useless to most readers and updated formatting/styles. Or in other words, stuff no one will notice.

Destil
12-14-2011, 07:12 PM
The war with the sharkiens is long over.
The war with the PRCY-7A virus has
Sorry, boss. I dropped your intro text-scroll.

Comb Stranger's
Paul le Fou's

John Carptener's
The Thing
II

Players
There are two teams in this game: Things and Crew.

Crew have no special powers. They may post in the thread during the day and vote for scans.

The things are the Mafia of this game. They may do everything crew can do. In addition, each night they may choose one player to convert, they become a thing with a random mutation. Newly converted players are sent a PM including the names of the other things and their mutation type (the active things do not learn this mutation type). Things also expire: after a certain number of days (which is not revealed to players) the virus kills the original host and consumes the body in a truly horrific fashion, with terrible side effects. Expired things are public knowledge the next day, if they were an alpha or omega thing, their mutation is also public knowledge (so the players always know how many things are 'in play' as far as victory is concerned).

Scans
There are two or more scans during each day phase (at 48 and 96 hours). If the scanned player is a thing, they die and the player learns their mutation type. If they are a member of the crew, there are no adverse effects. If the second (or later) scan kills a thing, the crew gets another scan, and 48 hours are added to day. Scanned things die, they do not expire.

The target is the scan is the player with the most votes. In the case of a tie, the player who was voted for first (including retracted votes) is scanned.

Mutations
Alpha - The first infection is always an alpha, and alphas are never the result of a random mutation.
Lifespan - Long. Unlike other non-omega vairants, the players are told when an alpha expires.
When an alpha expires one member of the crew, at random, is converted and becomes an alpha thing. No special knowledge is given to the new alpha but the other things are told their identity.

Beta - Common (50 - beta bonus%)
Lifespan - Medium
When a beta expires the chance of a beta being generated are reduced by 20%, and the chances of rare things being generated increases by 10% (each). This bonus resets once a rare thing is generated.

Gamma - Uncommon (25%)
Lifepan - Long
When a gamma expires the first scan of the following day kills whatever player is scanned, crew or thing.

Tau - Uncommon (15%)
Tau do not expire.

Epislon - Rare (5 + beta bonus%)
Lifespan - Short
When an epsilon expires the following day there is no first scan. The players are not told this, day simply ends if they scan a crew member first. If they scan a thing they still get bonus scans. If an epsilon and a gamma expire the same night the scan still kills crew members.

Omega - Rare (5 + beta bonus%)
Lifespan - Short. Unlike other non-alpha vairants, the players are told when an omega expires.
Omega things that have expired still count towards the thing (but not player) victory condition.

Day And Night
The day is 96 hours long, with an additional 48 added with each bonus scan. The first scan happens after 48 hours.

Night is 48 hours long. The first night will be 24 hours, instead.

Victory
All crew members (alive and dead) win if no things remain alive after a scan.
All things (alive and dead) win if their number is equal to or greater than the number of players at the end of a night.

Game Flow
Day
1st Scan, player victory condition check
2nd Scan, player victory condition check
(+bonus scans)

Night
Thing-Talk
Things expire
Conversion (and mutation roll)
Thing victory condition check

Misc.

Rules clarifications must be PMed to the GM, who then posts a clear update in the game thread and updates the OP without identifying who asked the question.
Players who do not post in the thread for a full day will be reprimanded.
Players who post in this thread during the game will be reprimanded.
Dead players who have asked for access to The Observation Deck who post in this thread will be reprimanded.
Non-players who have asked for access to The Observation Deck who post in this thread will be reprimanded in the next game I play/run where I have the power to do so (not restricted to forum mafia.)
Players publicly or privately requesting the reprimand of another player will be reprimand. The GM can and will take all issues into his own hands with appropriate replacement, modkills and warnings, thanks. An exception can be made for a player may informing the GM of out-of-game communication they are aware of.
Reprimands are done at GM discretion based based on things like gamestate and the nature of the offense and and will range from (but are not limited to) a warning to replacing the player in question with a new player (the replaced player looses, regardless of the game's outcome) to modkill of the offending player to declaring an entire team to have lost. Effort will be made to prevent either team from being able to use this to their advantage.

Dizzy
12-14-2011, 07:13 PM
Re-submitting Party Mafia (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1152705&postcount=5541) with the anonymity feature, of course.

Eddie
12-14-2011, 10:31 PM
Me.

You.

On an airship.

Organization Part Deux.

This should be easy math guys.

- Eddie

McClain
12-14-2011, 10:43 PM
So is anyone actually updating the wiki? Because nothing seems to have appeared on it all day.

I kind of made it as a joke, but I'm going to eventually at least put the results of all the games on there eventually because damn if I don't have a shitty memory and sometimes that stuff might actually be useful.

Please add stuff if you want to! I really don't care what people put on there so long as it's not breaking a rule for a current game (or porn). Mogri has been posting like a champ!

And Michelle posted the shipping grid.

And yes I made a "McClain" page because I can't even remember what the hell I've done in past games.

JohnB
12-15-2011, 03:31 AM
Me.

You.

On an airship.

Organization Part Deux.

This should be easy math guys.

- Eddie

That's the one I was waiting for!

Michelle
12-15-2011, 10:40 AM
OMG I just read Destil's page (http://ttmafia.wikia.com/wiki/Destil) on the wiki and I am dying laughing.

McClain
12-15-2011, 10:45 AM
I need to help set the record wrong about M13.

breakman
12-15-2011, 11:12 AM
No, no, no Adam. Their hunches are correct and this is something I've been withholding for too long.

Guild is truly my sock puppet and I've been playing both sides this entire time.

Ta-da!

I can't tell if he's being sarcastic or not. And if not, he...wouldn't be participating anymore, right? Can we clear this up somehow?

Solitayre
12-15-2011, 11:17 AM
Guild has existed on the Brontoforums for a long time, so unless Dizzy created his Guild persona years ago, and got involved in their mafia culture all for all that time as part of some elaborate plan to troll the TT mafia games that didn't exist yet, I'm gonna say....


...Actually that sounds exactly like something Dizzy would do.

Mogri
12-15-2011, 11:30 AM
McClain, did you change the template to float right? Because that's kind of way better.

McClain
12-15-2011, 11:33 AM
McClain, did you change the template to float right? Because that's kind of way better.

I did. Thanks!

Brickroad
12-15-2011, 11:36 AM
I was gonna add my stats in but I cannot for the life of me remember how/what I played in M13... just that I somehow woke up with outside of Tuscon with weird stitches behind each of my ears.

Solitayre
12-15-2011, 11:45 AM
Brick, you were the Time Traveler in M13, remember? It got really complicated when Future Brickroad traveled back from Day 7, and there were three different Brickroads posting in the same day. Watching Future you make Past you cry was completely worth it though.

Brickroad
12-15-2011, 11:47 AM
Oooh, that's right.

Wasn't Girl Brickroad one of the vigilantes?

McClain
12-15-2011, 11:47 AM
It was really annoying when Michelle and I drove down to Florida and he wasn't there/then.

Oh, and I thought you already had a page? (http://ttmafia.wikia.com/wiki/Cheeseburger)

Solitayre
12-15-2011, 11:53 AM
Oooh, that's right.

Wasn't Girl Brickroad one of the vigilantes?

I don't remember, I think she got killed IRL when Eddie summoned Cthulhu on Day 16A. That was a good day.

Egarwaen
12-15-2011, 11:58 AM
I don't remember, I think she got killed IRL when Eddie summoned Cthulhu on Day 16A. That was a good day.

Also, whose bright idea was it to give Nich a memory-erasing power?

McClain
12-15-2011, 12:01 PM
Also, whose bright idea was it to give Nich a memory-erasing power?

I don't remember that happening

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH SO FUNNY!

Solitayre
12-15-2011, 12:01 PM
Also, whose bright idea was it to give Nich a memory-erasing power?

No one remembers anymore.

Michelle
12-15-2011, 12:03 PM
Wasn't Girl Brickroad one of the vigilantes?

Don't you mean Chickroad?

Solitayre
12-15-2011, 12:06 PM
Don't you mean Chickroad?

No no, Chickroad was when Past Future Past Brick from Timeline C got polymorphed into a chicken by Luana.

Destil
12-15-2011, 12:08 PM
I was gonna add my stats in but I cannot for the life of me remember how/what I played in M13... just that I somehow woke up with outside of Tuscon with weird stitches behind each of my ears.

Hey, not my idea to have a power that requires "16 ounces of brain matter from the target player (add salt to taste)" to be activated.

McClain
12-15-2011, 12:08 PM
No no, Chickroad was when Past Future Past Brick from Timeline C got polymorphed into a chicken by Luana.

But why did the Chicken cross the Brickroad?

Solitayre
12-15-2011, 12:21 PM
But why did the Chicken cross the Brickroad?

Chickroad crossing the Brickroad triggered a temporal paradox that collapsed all the alternate timelines into one alpha timeline and reset the universe back to its default conditions. It's what lead to the "Crisis of Infinite Brickroads" sub-game, remember?

McClain
12-15-2011, 12:23 PM
"Crisis of Infinite Brickroads"

I think I just peed a little.

breakman
12-15-2011, 12:32 PM
Guild has existed on the Brontoforums for a long time, so unless Dizzy created his Guild persona years ago, and got involved in their mafia culture all for all that time as part of some elaborate plan to troll the TT mafia games that didn't exist yet, I'm gonna say....


...Actually that sounds exactly like something Dizzy would do.

Why would it have to be an elaborate plan? Maybe he just happened to use different names on the two forums, and then signed up here as Guild earlier this year. Or maybe the two Guilds aren't the same person? I don't know.

And if none of that's true, why's he making dumb jokes about Guild being "dead" anyway?

dtsund
12-15-2011, 04:34 PM
"Crisis of Infinite Brickroads"

This could be our next Thing game. Alt-accounts named so that it's obvious who the real owner is, except that one of them is secretly actually Brickroad, the original Thing.

McClain
12-15-2011, 04:36 PM
This could be our next Thing game. Alt-accounts named so that it's obvious who the real owner is, except that one of them is secretly actually Brickroad, the original Thing.

There was actually a Bronto game like this except with Guild. I believe it had a pod-people theme. Every day he jumped into a different account, and if he wasn't lynched, he killed the person when he jumped that night. I didn't read the whole thread, but the concept was kind of awesome. How long could Brickroad* go undetected? I'd totally play this.

*or anyone, really.

Michelle
12-15-2011, 04:45 PM
There was actually a Bronto game like this except with Guild.

If anyone is interested in reading it, here's a link to the game thread (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?topic=4709.0) and the original pitch (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?topic=4683.msg135195).

kaisel
12-15-2011, 05:18 PM
There was actually a Bronto game like this except with Guild. I believe it had a pod-people theme. Every day he jumped into a different account, and if he wasn't lynched, he killed the person when he jumped that night. I didn't read the whole thread, but the concept was kind of awesome. How long could Brickroad* go undetected? I'd totally play this.

*or anyone, really.

Man, I could have sworn that someone posted a similar idea maybe right after the Thing ended, but I'm having a hard time finding it. I think it'd be a pretty cool idea, though it'd probably involve not actually being on TT.

JohnB
12-15-2011, 05:19 PM
That game was awesome!

Karzac
12-15-2011, 05:45 PM
That's a pretty cool idea.

WormRider
12-15-2011, 05:48 PM
I know we just had a SMT themed game recently, but what do people think about a Persona 4 themed game? I have some ideas for such a game. Its rules are slightly non-standard, but (I hope) it's still pretty much a mafia game.

I will post once I've written it down.

Dizzy
12-15-2011, 05:51 PM
That sounds like a box full of fun. I am for Project Crisis of Infinite Brickroads and demand Brickboard be our mole to whack, so to speak.

Brickroad
12-15-2011, 07:15 PM
Man, I could have sworn that someone posted a similar idea maybe right after the Thing ended, but I'm having a hard time finding it. I think it'd be a pretty cool idea, though it'd probably involve not actually being on TT.

Bongo Bill pitched a game where I would either be good or evil, but the town had no way of knowing at the outset. Win conditions were different depending on what my alignment was, so the game would be about trying to figure out if my info was good or I was bluffing.

The pitch predated the canonical Brickroad Show by a few games.

WormRider
12-15-2011, 09:01 PM
Here's my pitch for a Persona 4 themed mafia game! (Mafia Channel?) Should this becomes the next game, I will not be able to GM it until a week from now.

You know what they say about a town in the middle of nowhere like Inaba. Boring. Quiet. Nothing ever happens.

That's why the murders are so exciting. Let's be honest: bodies hung upside down from an antenna is not your typical daily event. Your anticipation spikes every time it gets foggy, because that seems to be when these dead bodies show up. It's not too far from the truth to say that these murders mean something very different to each of you. Some are delighted. So delighted, they make more murders happen. Some are determined to find out the truth. Most live through their day in fear of being the next victim.

Whatever your feelings are, you have noticed something interesting. There's a well-known urban legend that if you stare at a TV at midnight on a rainy night, you will see your soulmate. Well, either certain details are not quite correct, or someone really want you to live a lonely life, because the people you see are always found dead the next morning.

Each game day is divided into night (before midnight) and day (after midnight). Nights last 48 hours, days last 72 hours. The game is started with a night 0, which lasts 24 hours.

Every night, the killers (this game's mafia) converse and decide on who to kidnap and throw into the TV the next night (so the person they decide to kill on night 0 will show up dead in the beginning of night 1, and so on). At midnight (the transition between night and day), this person will appear on the Midnight Channel. The killers' target will be informed that they will be killed at the start of the next night, but no one else (beside the killers, of course) will know this information.

Every day, residents of Inaba (all players) will try to find the killers responsible for these murders. They will vote to arrest someone. At the end of the day, the person most voted for will be arrested and removed from the game. A tie will be broken randomly.

Among the townies are members of an investigation squad, from now on will be referred to as investigators. The investigators know who their teammates are, and can privately converse during the day.

Everyone has a non-sketchy public identity. Identities of dead/arrested players are known only to their killers.

Powers:

Town's powers:

+ Investigation squad: the investigation squad are the only Persona users in the game, and has a set of operations they can perform. These operations are communal, and are active as long as there is still at least an investigator alive. Once a day, before the day end, the investigators can converse and decide on one and only one of these operations to perform, and a leader for that day's operation.
- Rescue: choose a player to follow. If this player is kidnapped and thrown into the TV, he/she will be rescued.
- Investigate: choose a player to follow. Learn whether this player is a killer.
- Rest: do nothing today. Perform two operations the next day.
- Capture: choose a player. This player is captured and removed from the game.
+ Private detective: one of the townie is an independent investigator. Every day before the day end, the independent investigator can choose one player to investigate. The investigation will reveal whether that player has done any suspicious activities inside a TV (negative means that player is definitely a townie, positive means that player can be either an investigator or a killer).

Killers' powers:

+ Stalk: every day before the day ends, the killers can guess who the investigation squad would target that day. If the guess is right, the operation fails and the killers learn the identity of the leader of the day's operation.
+ Bewildering fog: this power belongs to Izanami and can only be used if Izanami is alive. Once during the course of game, at any point (day or night), Izanami can cast Bewildering fog, nullifying all powers or operations during that phase.

The killers win when their numbers match the town's number. The town wins when all the killers are arrested or killed.

breakman
12-15-2011, 09:25 PM
+ Stalk: every day before the day ends, the killers can guess who the investigation squad would target that day. If the guess is right, the operation fails and the killers learn the identity of the leader of the day's operation.

Would this mean the killers can chat during the day as well?

Solitayre
12-15-2011, 09:30 PM
This ruleset kind of confuses me. This is probably because I am dumb.

poetfox
12-15-2011, 10:03 PM
While I like the "bad guys have to choose in advance" mechanic, I really kind of worry that it really extremely weakens the Mafia. Being unable to react quickly to situations in the town with nightkills puts them at much more of a disadvantage for sowing confusion and whatnot, and with a half-investigator and an investigator that takes at least a couple nightkills to kill, since as long as one member of Team Investigation Team being alive means there can still be inspecting, that might be too much of a disadvantage. Also consider that, when you have other teammates that can still investigate, someone going "I'm a member of the investigation team kill that guy" is an incredibly viable thing to do, much less risky than a normal inspector, unless there are seriously so many killers that a one-for-one trade isn't useful, which I would doubt. Plus, that person gets a day as semi-confirmed, and a whole day as confirmed if they actually did pick out a killer, before the Mafia can react.

I'm also wondering about the killers talking during the day.

Alpha Werewolf
12-15-2011, 11:15 PM
So I am still in desperate need of a co-mod for Mao Mafia (Mazo is sadly unavailable). I'll pitch it, but if it wins and there's still no co-mod I'll go ahead and pass on running it this time.

dtsund
12-15-2011, 11:28 PM
The thing that gets me about the Persona Mafia ruleset is how it's like the Investigators are a second Mafia faction, just one that has more powers and is allied with the Town.

Alpha Werewolf
12-15-2011, 11:34 PM
I've seen powered Mason groups before. The main problem is them being a large Mason group, really; I think the mafia needs some additional powers to balance that.

kaisel
12-16-2011, 12:08 AM
My biggest fear with the P4 ruleset is that it looks like the normal Townies are essentially cannon fodder, and I can't really see it being as engaging for them (since the Investigation team is so powerful).

Brickroad
12-16-2011, 02:52 AM
This one came to me in a dream:

Democratic Mafia

Standard Mafia rules. One inspector, one angel, one vigilante (who can act nightly), one oracle. Would probably need to start with a large-ish Mafia faction.

Roles are not static. On day one, players are elected into the position of power roles. Mafiosos can (and probably will) be elected, but they do not actually gain powers. If they get the vote, they have to bluff.

Players can be removed from office by 1) dying, 2) stepping down or 3) receiving a majority "no confidence" vote during the day. A vacated office sits empty for one game day before it can be filled again.

A player cannot have two roles at the same time, but otherwise may occupy as many roles throughout the course of the game as he is voted into.

Thoughts?

WormRider
12-16-2011, 06:01 AM
Sol, what are you confused about in the P4 ruleset?

Would it help to balance it more if I remove "investigate" from the investigation squad's powers? (let's be honest here, the canon investigation squad isn't very good at investigating...) Then the game will end up with only 1 investigator that can't distinguish between investigators and mafia.

Also, I kind of want the squad to have some power that works well with the fact that their power is communal, but I can't think of anything not game-breaking. Suggestions would be welcomed.

About stalk: it was initially there because I don't want the killers' target to wake up saying "I'm going to be killed, protect me!" I really dislike it not being a day power because then the killers can't react to what happens during he day. So, there are two options I'm considering:

- the killers can chat at any time, night or day. Considering that some of you think the killers are at a disadvantage, this may be a good option to balance it out.

- make stalk a power that belongs to a specific killer, and that killer can activate it during the day. I'm thinking 2 stalkers on the mafia team.

Also, there will definitely be less investigators than mafia. It depends on the total players, but the squad will probably have 3 members or so. If they don't have the investigating power, I don't think that they'll be too powerful.

Brick: what is there to prevent the town from putting people they want to confirm into the angel/vigilante position everyday and tell them what to do?

Brickroad
12-16-2011, 07:16 AM
Brick: what is there to prevent the town from putting people they want to confirm into the angel/vigilante position everyday and tell them what to do?

Nothing, but I think it's a bad strategy.

Karzac
12-16-2011, 07:55 AM
This one came to me in a dream:

Democratic Mafia

Standard Mafia rules. One inspector, one angel, one vigilante (who can act nightly), one oracle. Would probably need to start with a large-ish Mafia faction.

Roles are not static. On day one, players are elected into the position of power roles. Mafiosos can (and probably will) be elected, but they do not actually gain powers. If they get the vote, they have to bluff.

Players can be removed from office by 1) dying, 2) stepping down or 3) receiving a majority "no confidence" vote during the day. A vacated office sits empty for one game day before it can be filled again.

A player cannot have two roles at the same time, but otherwise may occupy as many roles throughout the course of the game as he is voted into.

Thoughts?

Are there also lynch votes?

Brickroad
12-16-2011, 07:58 AM
Are there also lynch votes?

Of course.

Karzac
12-16-2011, 08:00 AM
So there are possibly multiple votes per day (lynches and confidence votes)? That could get confusing.

I do think it's an interesting idea though.

WormRider
12-16-2011, 08:14 AM
So I've thought about it a bit more, and I really like the solution of removing "investigate" from the list of actions the investigation squad can perform. For less confusion, I guess they can be called the "rescue squad", and the members will be referred to as "persona users". In fact, I don't know why I even had investigating in that list to start with, since I've always disliked the deterministic nature of the standard mafia investigating power.

An alternative I've thought of is something like this:

+Rescue squad: the rescue squad are the only Persona users in the game, and has a set of operations they can perform. The squad starts the game with N members. Once a day, before the day end, the persona users can converse and decide on one and only one of these operations to perform, and a leader for that day's operation.
- Investigate: choose a player to follow. Learn whether this player is a killer. Can only be used if all members of the squad is alive.
- Capture: choose a player. This player is captured and removed from the game. Can only be used if at least N-1 members of the squad is alive.
- Rescue: choose a player to follow. If this player is kidnapped and thrown into the TV, he/she will be rescued. Can only be used if at least N-2 members of the squad is alive.
- Rest: do nothing today. Perform 2 operations the next day.

I'm also wondering whether I should give them a coroner like power to replace their investigating power (learn the identity of target dead player -- this mostly just means whether they're townie or the independent investigator).

How these changes address existing concerns:

+ The mafia cannot respond as fast because they have to choose a day in advance: so, I actually thought about this a lot. I thought of making it happening at the end of the same phase like standard mafia games, but that doesn't work as well with the rest of the ruleset. I think I will refrain from elaborating on this because, hey, you don't want to do the thinking for your players :) Would it be better if I give the mafia a one-shot, instantaneous kill power (use at any time, day or night, skip the next kill)?

+ The rescue squad is an investigator that takes several nightkills to kill: removing investigate from their list of things they can do will make them not an investigator anymore. Alternatively, if we go with the second option, the rescue squad can only do the "hey, I'm a persona user, kill this person!" thing once, because after that the person will be killed (with the instantaneous one-shot or otherwise), and the squad loses their investigating power because they will then have less than N members.

+ Vanilla townies will be bored because the rescue squad are too powerful: note that with their investigating power removed, the rescue squad is not all that powerful. Their rescue power is very tricky to use, and can backfire horrendously. Also note that the squad can use only one of their power a day on average, and this is a disadvantage compared to having several power roles (though, in exchange, they can coordinate their results). Also, vanilla townies and persona users alike will have the advantage of knowing whether they're being killed today or not, and (I hope) that will make it more interesting and engaging to them.

ais523
12-16-2011, 09:28 AM
Hmm, this isn't a full pitch, but after seeing repeated Brickroad Shows and Umby Cycles and all that, I wanted to see if there was interest in a particular sort of Mafia game (inspired by one I've seen at another forum). It'd mostly be standard rules, except that at the start of the game, everyone is either a townie with no special abilities, or Mafia with no special abilities; and a couple of players (decided by vote, then randomly one's chosen to help the town, one to help the Mafia) are "outside the game", unable to vote or to post directly in the thread (nor to be targeted or voted), but capable of influencing the game indirectly. In particular, they could give players of their choice power roles, send messages to particular players, possibly perform actions like kill/protect/investigate themselves, that sort of thing. (No doubt their messages would eventually end up being relayed to the thread/to the Mafia's hideout respectively via some convoluted means or other.) Which abilities could be used would be tempered by which abilities the opponents were using; that is, every time you use an ability, the opponents gain the possibility to use a slightly more powerful ability than you just used, but if they to you get to use one more powerful still, et cetera.

That way, it'd be possible for people who like crazy plans to work on their crazy plans from the sidelines, without having to fear people not believing them just because they're them.

Is it worth me pursuing this further, in order to convert it into something that would fit well into the TT Mafia metagame, and making a proper pitch? Or would people mostly be uninterested?

Solitayre
12-16-2011, 09:40 AM
I don't like the idea of writing rulesets to revolve around specific players. Part of what mafia is about is being persuasive/diplomatic/charismatic enough to get people to follow you, and if you make the game about certain people holding all the cards right from the outset, and your only decision is whether to trust that player or not, it defeats the point of that.

Mogri
12-16-2011, 10:28 AM
The way I've seen that variant played is that there were two people that weren't part of the game at all and their identity was not known to the players. I think the mafia-aligned god knew the identities of his faction members. I can't remember if there were actual roles for the players themselves, but I want to say yes.

ais523
12-16-2011, 10:37 AM
The way I've seen that variant played is that there were two people that weren't part of the game at all and their identity was not known to the players. I think the mafia-aligned god knew the identities of his faction members. I can't remember if there were actual roles for the players themselves, but I want to say yes.

Yep, pretty much that (the players didn't start with actual roles, but gained them as the game went on as they were gifted the from outside; they chose how to use them). It's not about deciding whether to trust particular players or not (mostly because they can't interact with the thread directly; I suppose they act more like mods with an agenda than like actual players), and town leadership very much is a part of trying to understand how the game adapts.

I've seen several variants, both knowing and not knowing who the players outside the game are. Their actual identities often doesn't hugely matter, as you're not trying to decide to trust them or not as you can't really do anything on the information (although it's important to pick people who'd have fun playing the role).

Egarwaen
12-16-2011, 11:20 AM
Hmm, this isn't a full pitch, but after seeing repeated Brickroad Shows and Umby Cycles and all that,

My hope is that people are starting to recognize that these cycles are actively harmful. In both recent games, the Brickroad Show and the Umby Cycle have either cost the town the game or very nearly cost the town the game.

Michelle
12-16-2011, 11:33 AM
Honestly, I think you guys make this Brickroad Show thing out to be way worse than it actually is. He still hardly ever gets lynched as town.* Meanwhile, there are some dudes who get lynched almost every game for practically no reason (poor dtsund!), even as townies! I don't hear them complaining.

*How many times has he been lynched and revealed to be innocent? Once? Twice?

Nodal
12-16-2011, 11:33 AM
Whenever you decide not to kill Umby, he's mafia. This is fact.

Destil
12-16-2011, 11:38 AM
Roll: Cycler.
Team: Mafia or Town.
Power: If the game would end and you're dead, you are revived. If the game would end and you're alive, you die. The game then proceeds as normal if it no longer ends.

Dizzy
12-16-2011, 11:57 AM
I think you mean 'role' there, Destil.

I have an item for The Organization:

Item: Pizza Roll Cock - Daytime Item
Target: One male living player
Usage: single use; effect is ceaseless
Declare: in thread
Effect: Target male player will have a sizable and tasty pizza roll fitted over their cock. They will not be able to remove it until the end of the game.

dtsund
12-16-2011, 12:17 PM
Honestly, I think you guys make this Brickroad Show thing out to be way worse than it actually is. He still hardly ever gets lynched. Meanwhile, there are some dudes who get lynched almost every game for practically no reason (poor dtsund!), even as townies! I don't hear them complaining.

On the contrary, I think I was lynched for a very good reason in M14.

Michelle
12-16-2011, 12:22 PM
True. ;) I guess I was thinking of M5, M12, M16...

Destil
12-16-2011, 12:28 PM
I think you mean 'role' there, Destil.

No. Bread people mafia. (http://breadpeople.tumblr.com/)

Karzac
12-17-2011, 08:40 AM
Whenever you decide not to kill Umby, he's mafia. This is fact.

Not in M12.

But yeah, I agree that the whole Brickroad and Umby things get overblown (partly due to those players themselves; Brick certainly plays it to his advantage when he can). Giving them special names was sort of a joke originally, but it's become a bit much.

But I was convinced that Umby was Mafia this game until I looked in the Champagne Room. Dude just seemed so suspicious.

WormRider
12-17-2011, 09:35 AM
Special names aside, I really don't see how lynching Brickroad or Umby, or discussions about lynching Brickroad or Umby, is more confusing/harmful/your-adjective-of-choice-here than lynching/discussing lynching other folks. There are many other folks who always look suspicious as townies, and there are many other folks who always get look at regardless of whether they're acting suspicious or not.

So whenever someone brings up "Brickroad show" or "Umby cycle" as a point in their argument, I tend to ignore the argument entirely because I fail to see the logic of that.

Umby
12-17-2011, 10:13 AM
The thing that gets me about the Persona Mafia ruleset is how it's like the Investigators are a second Mafia faction, just one that has more powers and is allied with the Town.

Yeah. It's too powerful. It feels like the town would win more than half the time.


So whenever someone brings up "Brickroad show" or "Umby cycle" as a point in their argument, I tend to ignore the argument entirely because I fail to see the logic of that.

Although Nodal is right in that most of the times I survive games is when I'm mafia OR (in the case of The Thing) the mafia is too scared to convert me, the Umby Cycle is an overblown thing. It comes mostly from my hasty way of posting my ideas willy-nilly, because typically just getting my thoughts out there helps the town except in the case where they find me suspicious for it, which is always. I'll put some effort into being less suspicious last time, but I have no clue if it'll work.

JohnB
12-18-2011, 10:24 AM
Are we ready to vote?

Solitayre
12-18-2011, 11:23 AM
Most people seem to be in favor of holding off the game until after the holidays, but we could probably start the voting and decide when to start the game after we decide what to play.

breakman
12-18-2011, 11:37 AM
Yes please.

also let's decide to start before the new year

WormRider
12-18-2011, 01:46 PM
Wait wait. I need to actually update my pitch.

Give me until tomorrow.

WormRider
12-19-2011, 02:13 PM
P4 Mafia

You know what they say about a town in the middle of nowhere like Inaba. Boring. Quiet. Nothing ever happens.

That's why the murders are so exciting. Let's be honest: bodies hung upside down from an antenna is not your typical daily event. Your anticipation spikes every time it gets foggy, because that seems to be when these dead bodies show up. It's not too far from the truth to say that these murders mean something very different to each of you. Some are delighted. So delighted, they make more murders happen. Some are determined to find out the truth. Most live through their day in fear of being the next victim.

Whatever your feelings are, you have noticed something interesting. There's a well-known urban legend that if you stare at a TV at midnight on a rainy night, you will see your soulmate. Well, either certain details are not quite correct, or someone really wants you to live a lonely life, because the people you see are always found dead a few days later.

Each game day is divided into night (before midnight) and day (after midnight). Nights last 48 hours, days last 72 hours. The game is started with a night 0, which lasts 24 hours.

Every night, the killers (this game's mafia) converse and decide on who to kidnap and throw into the TV the next night (so night 0's target will show up dead at the beginning of night 1, and so on). At midnight (the transition between night and day), this person will appear on the Midnight Channel. What this means is that: the killers' target will be informed that they will be killed at the start of the next night, but no one else (beside the killers, of course) will know this information. In addition, the killers can also chat during the day; although they must still decide on the next night's kill target before midnight.

Every day, residents of Inaba (all players) will try to find the killers responsible for these murders. They will vote to arrest someone. At the end of the day, the person most voted for will be arrested and removed from the game. A tie will be broken randomly.

Among the townies are members of a rescue squad, from now on will be referred to as persona users. The persona users know who their teammates are, and can privately converse during the day.

Identities of dead/arrested players are known only to their killers.

Powers:

Town's powers:

+ Rescue squad: the rescue squad are the only persona users in the game, and has a set of operations they can perform. Unless specified otherwise, these operations are communal, and are active as long as there is still at least an investigator alive. Once a day, before the day end, the investigators can converse and decide on one and only one of these operations to perform, and a leader for that day's operation.
- Rescue: choose a player to follow. If this player is kidnapped and thrown into the TV, he/she will be rescued. This operation can only be performed if there are at least 2 persona users left.
- Interrogate: choose a player. A chosen member of the rescue squad immediately gains the ability to privately talk with target player until the next day phase.
- Rest: do nothing today. Perform two operations the next day. They do not have to be different types of operations. Rest does not stack.
- Capture: choose a player. This player is captured and removed from the game at the beginning of the next night phase.
+ Independent investigator: one of the townies is an independent investigator. Every day before the day end, the independent investigator can choose one player to investigate. The investigation will reveal whether that player has had any suspicious activities inside a TV (negative means that player is definitely a townie, positive means that player can be either an investigator or a killer).

Killers' powers:

+ Stalk: every day before the day ends, the killers can guess who the rescue squad would target that day. If the guess is correct, the operation fails and the killers learn the identity of the leader of the day's operation.
+ Bewildering fog: this power belongs to Izanami and can only be used if Izanami is alive. Once during the course of game, at any point (day or night), Izanami can cast Bewildering fog, nullifying all powers or operations during that phase. "Rest" operation is not affected by this.

The killers win when their numbers match the town's number. The town wins when all the killers are arrested or killed.

Solitayre
12-19-2011, 04:17 PM
Brickroad’s The Organization II ( http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1152295&postcount=5537)

poetfox’s My Little Mafia (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1209800&postcount=5855)

Mogri’s Mega Man Mafia ( http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1209665&postcount=5844)

Destil’s The Thing II ( http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1210507&postcount=5870)

Dizzy’s Party Mafia (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1152705&postcount=5541)

Wormrider’s Persona 4 Mafia ( http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1213584&postcount=5939)

Is this all of them? Did I miss any? Also, how do you make a poll? I tried making one right now but I was afraid I'd screw it up and look like an idiot so I asked a stupid question here to remove all doubt.

Raven
12-19-2011, 04:28 PM
When you create a new thread, there is an option to make a poll below the message box.

McClain
12-19-2011, 07:35 PM
Man, I would just like to thank the GMs who posted OCD recaps of the game at the end. It's making this silly wiki project of mine much easier. Specifically, I just copied and pasted everything from M5.

Random question: What will happen to the old Wave logs when that ends?

Destil
12-19-2011, 07:38 PM
Random question: What will happen to the old Wave logs when that ends?

I've got most of next week off, I'll look into export tools again.

EDIT: HEY! What do you mean OCD?!?

McClain
12-19-2011, 08:12 PM
EDIT: HEY! What do you mean OCD?!?

I mean it in the most loving way possible! I mean, I'm the lamer compiling a wiki of our pointless bullshit! :D

Incidentally, it's coming along nicely and it's reminding me of all kinds of stuff I forgot about. Which is, after all, the whole reason for having it in the first place.

Alpha Werewolf
12-19-2011, 10:17 PM
Solitayre, you missed Mao Mafia. The pitch is the same as last time.


And I still need a co-mod.

Dizzy
12-19-2011, 10:26 PM
ANY CO-MOD?

Mogri
12-19-2011, 10:28 PM
Solitayre, you missed Mao Mafia. The pitch is the same as last time.


And I still need a co-mod.
I could co-mod if needed.

McClain
12-19-2011, 10:39 PM
I probably won't play next game (unless it is Thing II) but I could maybe co-mod.

Adam
01-10-2012, 05:25 PM
Blast. I accidentally posted in the M17 thread. I deleted my post, but there's going to be phantom post issues from now on. Sorry, guys.

EDIT: LA LA LA YOU CAN'T RESPOND TO ME

poetfox
01-13-2012, 09:48 PM
If there's anyone out there not in the secret special spectator forum who would like to join in on my silly Pony Mafia game, I have someone who is needing to bow out. Let me know with a PM if you're interested.

Dizzy
01-15-2012, 04:44 PM
Pony champagne room access, please.

*zips up flame suit*

Destil
01-17-2012, 04:39 PM
Hey, anyone mind opening this pearly gate for me? Pony heaven better not be a petting zoo...

breakman
01-21-2012, 04:44 PM
Can I come in?

poetfox
01-23-2012, 07:10 AM
We're in need of another replacement for Mafia. If you're interested, please let me know.

Brickroad
01-26-2012, 06:37 PM
Beam me up, princess!

Merus
01-30-2012, 05:25 PM
Champagne room, please!

Egarwaen
02-04-2012, 11:26 PM
Get this pony some champagne! Stat!

dwolfe
02-05-2012, 04:18 AM
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/1008/champagne-christopher-walken-is-awesome-demotivational-poster-1281992522.jpg

Eddie
02-11-2012, 04:50 PM
Finally. Champagne please!

schep
02-14-2012, 07:53 PM
I will probably not do the "if I am inspector" thing in future TT Mafia games, unless something about the rules makes it particularly useful. Just saying that here while no game is running so a change in my behavior doesn't look so suspicious later.

It was invented in a place where we played fast-paced games, with almost no reliable tells. So inspecting randomly made sense, and suspicions against players would not often carry weight from one "day" to the next. There was always a known balance between insurance against taking info to the grave and helping the bad guys deduce my role. But the thing I realized this game that really breaks it in this format: I can't vote for the players I find most suspicious.

So, yeah. That's that thing.

Brickroad
02-14-2012, 08:07 PM
Okay, enough silly pony nonsense.

What do you people say to some high-flyin' superspies!?

Dizzy
02-15-2012, 07:33 AM
I fucking want anonymity in the next game GODDAMMIT MAKE IT HAPPEN COME THE FUCK ON

Alpha Werewolf
02-15-2012, 08:34 AM
Mao mafia isn't going up this time. Actually, I won't have the time to host anything for a while.

Destil
02-15-2012, 09:57 AM
I'm Fairly tempted to not pitch The Thing II this time, simply because I think at this point superspies just deserves to win...

McClain
02-15-2012, 10:02 AM
I'm Fairly tempted to not pitch The Thing II this time, simply because I think at this point superspies just deserves to win...

Boo!

But yeah, it sounds like Organization II is kind of a lock? More champagne, please!

Egarwaen
02-15-2012, 10:39 AM
I'm Fairly tempted to not pitch The Thing II this time, simply because I think at this point superspies just deserves to win...

I'd vote for both Organization II and Thing II.

Karzac
02-15-2012, 10:41 AM
I'd love to play Organization II and Thing II, but don't think I'll be able to do either because of school.

WormRider
02-15-2012, 10:52 AM
I'd love to play Organization II and Thing II, but don't think I'll be able to do either because of school.

... but I'll probably pitch P4 mafia again. Not sure why since The Organization II will probably win, and I won't have enough time to write the flavor text anyway. I guess it just feels silly to not try.

I'll be up for running/playing some short experimental game too (see the other thread).

Red Hedgehog
02-15-2012, 11:10 AM
Oh, is it time for proposals? While I may not be playing, I would be up for running a game. Of course, it isn't quite Mafia but neither are The Thing or, especially, The Organization. But it is a game with no player elimination so everyone gets to play every day the game goes on and there's some actual information day one to talk about rather than throwing around random accusations! The one caveat is that I would like to cap the number of people playing at 10... so I'd either run multiple simultaneous games or it could be run alongside something else.

Anyway, I'm talking about a mafia-like game that came out a couple years ago called,

The Resistance

The imperial government rules with an iron fist. They oppress the people and force them into a life of toil, drudgery, and war all for the benefit of the ruling elite. They are ruthless and efficient, but there are a few brave souls willing to stand up to their tyranny. The resistance plans to carry out five missions to weaken the government's power and inspire the masses to rise up and revolt. If they can succeed in at least three of them, they are sure that the oppressive regime will be toppled. But the imperial government didn't get where it is by being stupid. Its secret police force has planted deep spies within the resistance who will do everything they can to sabotage the missions and ensure the resistance is crushed utterly. Will the resistance succeed in their lofty goals or will the emperor and his cronies continue to live in opulence?

Rules:

Roles:

The roles are based on the number of players as follows:
Players Resistance Spies
5 3 2
6 4 2
7 4 3
8 5 3
9 6 3
10 6 4

All spies know the identity of the other spies at the beginning of the game. The resistance members will receive a PM saying:

You are a member of the resistance movement opposing the evil imperialist government!

The spies will receive a PM saying:

You are a spy. You are loyal to the grand imperial government and have infiltrated this dirty resistance.

The other spies you are working with are: Larry, Moe, and Curly

Winning the game:

The resistance wins the game if they succeed in 3 out of the 5 missions. The spies win the game if they sabotage 3 out of the 5 missions OR if there are five consecutive failed mission team votes (they have delayed the resistance long enough for imperial troops to converge on the resistance's ever-moving hideout).

Discussion:

All gameplay discussion takes place in the forum thread or in PMs to me. No player may talk about the game to any other player or in any other public place. There is no day / night phase distinction - players may have discussion in the thread at any time.

Rules questions may be posted in the thread or PMed to me. If PMed to me, they will be answered publicly in the thread (but the identity of the asker will not be made known).

Team Leader:

The players will be ordered 1-10 (randomly determined at the beginning of the game). This list indicates who is the first team leader and who will be leader next. The list is circular so after player 10 is leader, player 1 will be leader again. Be aware that some plot cards (see below) may cause the order to jump.

Missions:

There are five total missions.

Assign Plot Cards

At the beginning of each mission, the current team leader receives three plot cards (see below) and gives them to any player they want without restriction, meaning they may give all three to one player or split them up among other players. The team leader cannot keep one of these three plot cards nor give away a plot card they were previously given by another team leader. The team leader has 24 hours from the time they are PMed with the plot cards to assign them. If they do not, all three cards are assigned to the player before them on the team leader list. Once 24 hours have passed, the game moves to the assign mission teams phase. Assignments should be in bold as follows:

I give Open Up to Larry, No Confidence to Moe, and In the spotlight to Curly

Assign Mission Teams

The primary role of the team leader is to assign mission teams. After plot cards are assigned, the team leader then has 24 hours to propose a team to go on the mission. The number of members on the team is based on the current day (see chart below). The team leader may put themselves on the team. The team leader may make one, and only one official proposal. If a team leader fails to make a proposal in time, they will be considered to have a proposed a team consisting of the players consecutively before them on the team leader list. After 24 hours, the game moves to the vote for proposal phase. Proposals should be made in bold as follows:

I propose a team of myself, Larry, and Shemp

The number of players that must be assigned to each mission is as follows:
Players 5 6 7 8 9 10
Mission 1 2 2 2 3 3 3
Mission 2 2 3 3 4 4 4
Mission 3 3 3 3 4 4 4
Mission 4 3 4 4* 5* 5* 5*
Mission 5 3 4 4 5 5 5

Voting

The players then have 24 hours to vote on whether they approve of the mission team or not. These votes are sent privately, via PM to me. If a player does not vote in time, they are considered to have cast a "Yay" vote. After 24 hours, the vote tally will be revealed publicly though not who gave what vote (e.g., Vote tally was 7 for, 3 against). If a majority of the players (6 or more in a 10 person game) vote for the mission team, that team will proceed to mission execution. Otherwise, the vote is a failure and leadership passes to the next player on the team leader list. The assign mission teams phase then begins again with the next team leader (no new plot cards are given out).

Mission Execution

Once a mission team has been successfully voted on, each player then has 24 hours to PM me with whether they are supporting or sabotaging the mission. Rebels may only choose to support the mission. Spies may choose to support or sabotage the mission. If a player does not submit their choice on time, all rebels will be assumed to support a mission and all spies will be assumed to sabotage a mission. A mission is a success if everyone supports it. A mission is a failure if at least one player sabotages it - except for day four if there are 7 or more player playing when two players must sabotage the mission for it to fail. After 24 hours, the total support and sabotage is revealed (e.g. 3 supports, 1 sabotage). Leadership passes to the next player on the team leader list and the assign plot cards phase begins.

Timing

Each phase (Assign Plot Cards, Assign Mission Teams, Voting, and Mission Execution) lasts exactly 24 hours. Each player may, once per game, request a 24 hour extension of a phase. These extensions are made public.

Plot Cards

There are 15 total plot cards and they are randomly assigned. Once a plot card has been assigned, it is not shuffled back in. Some cards are used immediately, some are played by announcing their use in the thread, and some are played by PMing me (though the fact that you used them will be publicly known). Once played they are gone. The distribution of the plot cards is as follows:

1 Take Responsibility
Plays by: Immediately takes effect
Effects: Choose a plot card held by a player. Take that card from them.

1 Establish Confidence
Plays by: Immediately takes effect
Effects: You find out the identity of the leader in a PM that will read either "Moe is a spy" or "Moe is loyal resistance" where Moe is the name of the leader.

1 In the Spotlight
Plays by: PMing me during the voting phase
Effects: Choose a player on the current mission team being voted for. If that vote succeeds, the player's mission support for that mission is publicly known. If the vote does not succeed, it is not announced that you attempted to play this card and you still have it to use on future votes.

1 Open Up
Plays by: Immediately takes effect
Effects: Publicly choose a player. At the beginning of the voting phase, that player finds out your identity in a PM that will read either "Moe is a spy" or "Moe is loyal resistance" where Moe is your name.

2 Keeping a close eye on you
Plays by: PMing me during the mission execution phase
Effects: Choose a player on the current mission. You find out whether they supported or sabotaged it. If two players both choose to investigate the same player during the same mission execution I will randomly choose one of them to have actually played their card. You find this out in a PM that will read either "Moe supported the mission" or "Moe sabotaged the mission" where Moe is the name of the player chosen.

2 Strong Leader
Plays by: Announcing use in thread during the assign plot cards or assign mission teams phase
Effects: You become the new team leader and the phase restarts

2 Overheard conversation
Plays by: Immediately takes effect
Effects: Publicly choose a player either before or after you on the team leader list. At the beginning of the voting phase, you find out that player's identity in a PM that will read either "Moe is a spy" or "Moe is loyal resistance" where Moe is the name of the player chosen.

2 Opinion Maker
Plays by: Immediately takes effect
Effects: From now on, all your votes (but not your mission support) must be publicly announced in the thread during the voting phase. Your first post in the thread during the voting phase must include your vote.

3 No Confidence
Plays by: PMing me during Voting Phase
Effects: If the vote passes, instead it is considered to have failed. If the vote does not pass, it is not announced that you attempted to play this card and you still have it to use on future votes. If multiple players attempt to use No Confidence in one night, I will randomly determine which player actually played theirs.

---

Looking for feedback on this - especially the timing (is 48 hours too much time - too little time?)

Karzac
02-15-2012, 11:21 AM
I love The Resistance (although I've never played with the plot cards) but I'm not sure I'd want to play it instead of Mafia. I don't know if enough conversation could be generated in-thread, as so much of the game comes down to one person's decision on each round.

Like I said before though, I won't be playing in the next game no matter what it is, so it might be worth a shot anyway.

Mogri
02-15-2012, 11:40 AM
Who's up for an information game? How about some

Arcana Mafia

Players will be assigned identities based on the Major Arcana (The Emperor, The Chariot, etc.). Rules are as normal Mafia: 72/48 day/night cycles, player identities revealed on death, and so on.

Roles that will be in the game:
Town Voice: At will, this player may PM a message to the GM, who will post it in-thread. Players will know that the message came from a town player.
Town Sane Cop: Each night, this player may investigate another player (not him/herself) to learn that player's alignment.
Town Insane Cop: As the sane cop, except the results received are flipped (town appears guilty, mafia appears innocent). The two cops will not be informed whether they are sane or insane.
Town/Town Mason: These two players have nightchat.
Town/Mafia Mason: These two players have nightchat. One of them belongs to the Mafia team, unbeknownst to the other.
Mafia Voice: As the town voice, except players know that the message came from a Mafia player.

Roles that might be in the game:
Town Bulletproof: Once per game, if this player is targeted for a nightkill, the nightkill fails. This is a passive ability. This player is notified of the failed nightkill, but other players are not.
Town Angel: Each night, this player may choose another player (not him/herself) to make that player immune to nightkills. That player is not notified of the action, but if the nightkill is blocked, the Angel is notified.
Town Voice Backup: This player has no abilities, but if the Town Voice dies, this player becomes the Town Voice.
Town Triplevoter: Once per game during the day, this player may use his power to triple the weight of his/her vote. Other players are not notified of this action.
Town One-Shot Vigilante: Once per game during the night, this player may use his power to kill another player.
Mafia Muffler: Once per game during the night, this player may use his power to disguise both "voice" roles: the GM will not announce which player gave which message for the next day.
Mafia Recruiter: Once per game during the night, this player may use his power to convert a town player to the Mafia team. The converted player loses any powers he/she had. The Mafia may not nightkill on a night when this power is used.
Mafia Voice Backup: As the town voice backup.
Mafia Mortician: Each night, this player may choose another player (not him/herself). If the chosen player dies during the next day, his/her identity will not be revealed.


A list of roles included in the game will be announced at the start of the game.


The roles are designed around creating a town team of players that are individually weak, but collectively very strong. Meanwhile, the Mafia faction is designed around creating uncertainty for the town.

Red Hedgehog
02-15-2012, 12:14 PM
I love The Resistance (although I've never played with the plot cards) but I'm not sure I'd want to play it instead of Mafia. I don't know if enough conversation could be generated in-thread, as so much of the game comes down to one person's decision on each round.

My impression is that the game is more weighted toward the spies without the plot cards. Of course, that's the real life game and I'm not sure how different it would be online.

I have faith that talking time would generate enough discussion. Do you really think people wouldn't comment on what the make-up of the mission teams should be and how him choosing that team clearly means he's a spy? If anything, I think there's less discussion in a real life game because there's less time for people to do analysis.

Karzac
02-15-2012, 12:16 PM
Yeah, you're probably right. I will say that 48 hours is way too long for just PMing you whether they're supporting or sabotaging. Make it 24.

Red Hedgehog
02-15-2012, 01:05 PM
Yeah, you're probably right. I will say that 48 hours is way too long for just PMing you whether they're supporting or sabotaging. Make it 24.

I would imagine 48 hours would be way more time than needed. Especially since only the spies (and people with the Keeping a close eye on you) have a decision to make. But note that all phases can end early (the leader making his plot card or team decision or everyone voting / giving me their mission task) so I'd hope most of the times it ends quickly but that 48 hours can take into account if someone gets busy / has personal stuff?

Still, if people think I should shorten it to 24, I will.

Karzac
02-15-2012, 01:43 PM
Oh, I didn't notice that it could end early. The only problem with that is that people might not know when the next phase was starting.

poetfox
02-15-2012, 03:04 PM
Hi Mogri!

1) I assume the cops will not know which one they are?
2) Holy shit, those voices are going to be a lot of work for you. Do you have a co-GM lined up? Because for serious, the town voice especially is going to want to spam that shit.
3) Mortician is an interesting way to "fix" the problems people were having with Lies, though maybe a bit much for my tastes? I just don't know if it would be used other than on other Mafia. Maybe I'm wrong, though, since that would make the power not actually cast doubt, if they did that. Dunno.

Red, I was gifted a copy of The Resistance, but I've never even gotten to break open the package, which is unfortunate! I'd love to give it a go. It does seem like your lengths of time are a bit long... Maybe just shorten things to 24, but be open to requests by team leader to extend the time? Or maybe add rules that let that be a thing that could be talked about and agreed upon in thread? "We need more time for this. Everyone vote on having another 24 hours."

Mogri
02-15-2012, 03:39 PM
Hi Mogri!

1) I assume the cops will not know which one they are?
2) Holy shit, those voices are going to be a lot of work for you. Do you have a co-GM lined up? Because for serious, the town voice especially is going to want to spam that shit.
3) Mortician is an interesting way to "fix" the problems people were having with Lies, though maybe a bit much for my tastes? I just don't know if it would be used other than on other Mafia. Maybe I'm wrong, though, since that would make the power not actually cast doubt, if they did that. Dunno.

Thanks for your interest!

1) That's right. I should've made that clearer, but the obvious implication of having the two cops is that you have to figure out which one you are. I'll edit the OP to reflect this.

2) I'm not terribly concerned with this. I might reword it such that any messages you send within an hour of a broadcast will be deferred until an hour is up -- I don't want to have to post a new message every couple of minutes. There won't be instant turnaround, since I do sleep, but during most hours of the day, I have a computer at hand, so I don't foresee this being a problem. If I need help, I'll ask for it. I'm sure someone in the Champagne Room would be willing to co-voice.

3) Mortician is definitely a much weaker Lies. With the two cops already making investigation uncertain, though, I didn't think it was necessary to cloud things further. Masking only Mafia is probably not an effective use of this power, but I'll leave that in the hands of the players.

Torgo
02-15-2012, 04:52 PM
The idea of dueling cops on the same team sounds so maddeningly hilarious I can't help but approve.

elementalpenguin
02-15-2012, 05:45 PM
Oh man, Mogri's sounds pretty great. It's closer to Vanilla Mafia, which I like, and it has my favorite role, the insane cop. One of the most satisfying Mafia games I've ever played is in a game when I was the insane cop and ended up investigating a confirmed townie. The other cop was also still alive, had the same idea and so knew what we were, and we pulled victory from the jaws of defeat by being revealing our investigations the next day.

Oh, Town/Mafia mason is a role I've never seen before in a game but makes me really eager to play. Would be really fun. Arcana mafia sounds good to me.

WormRider
02-15-2012, 06:03 PM
I just wrote up this new idea for a game, originated from my idea of limiting post number. The flavor may or may not be inspired by Battlestar Gallatica :)

Outside of the porthole, at a distance, is Beta Lyrae b -- the cause of your excitement and anticipation. You were born and grew up in Arcadia, and as such, it's hard for you to imagine life on a planet. You are used to walls of titanium, artificial lighting, monthly body radiation count, and all that. But once you are on Beta Lyrae b, there will be day and night. There will be space above your head, with Beta Lyrae shining during the day, and moons during the night. Arcadia can finally retire, after so many years seeking for a home world.

As one of the first settlers-to-be, you are piloting your own raptor. The pioneer team, consisting of over 20 raptors and 7 passenger ships, left Arcadia a week ago on a scouting mission to Beta Lyrae b. Each passenger ship carries a population of 2,000 and is escorted by a dedicated raptor, code-named VPxxx. The majority of the other one-man raptors carry people like you: an elite scientist, who is also a highly skilled pilot. Arcadia is scheduled to land 2 months after your arrival. Everything has been going well.

"Man, I could sure go for a drink right now, if I'm not the only one on this ship..." The channel 1 light of the communication system flashes as you listen to the voice of one of your fellow pilots. The path to Beta Lyrae b has been peaceful and quiet, and so, remarks like this have been the only kind of conversation you've gotten. Channel 1 transmits communication signal among the raptors. Channel 14 of your raptor is dedicated to private communication with the mothership.

"Back on the Ark, I know this guy working in a bar in Sector 52. He... madddddd....thezzzzz....*cracks*.... *clicks*....*sssszzzzz*...."

"VY505, what happened?" Through channel 1 came the voice of Captain E. from the mothership. "Dddoooo....*sizzzzzzzzes*..."

You hear a loud beeping, followed by bright red blinking letters on the system monitor: "ALERT: SYSTEM FAILUTE. COMMUNICATION CHANNEL NO. 1 CANNOT BE ACTIVATED."

"Hey... guys?" You try to get through to your teammates somehow. Channel 1 is clearly and visibly not responding, so you're not sure why you did that. You feel kind of silly.

"VB233, do you copy?" Captain E. speaks again, this time to you, through Channel 14.

"What happened?"

"Channel 1 went down, and so did all of our radars," you look to your left at the blank radar signals, "but individual channels from the raptors to the mothership here is still working. We are investigating the situation. Do not deviate from your planned trajectory."

"Roger."

Easier said then done, however. Without your radar and instruments, you're not entirely sure of where you're going. When all of your instruments were working, several light seconds seemed like no distance at all. But now that you don't have any idea where anybody else is, the blackness around you sure is lonely.

Several hours later, which felt like an eternity, you observe that your radar starts working again. Well, sort of. You can see where the raptors are, but not escorted passenger ships. You can't also figure out which raptor is which, only that they're there. Worse, it looks like you were not the only one who had troubles with navigating. The raptors have strayed too much away from the initial formation; you can't deduce which is which.

After several more hours, you receive another message from Captain E.

"The radar system is partially back up. I can verify that signals from all raptors are still being received by Arcadia.

We cannot immediately get Channel 1 back up. It may take a while. However, we have received information that a group of rebels may have infiltrated your flotilla. They are against the colonization of Beta Lyrae b, and are almost certainly trying to destroy the passenger ships. If you are escorting a passenger ship, DO NOT ANNOUNCE YOUR POSITION!

The mothership is armed with the ability to eliminate any raptor by detonation, which I will now place under your discretion. It is crucial that the rebels among you be eliminated. In the mean time, I will mannually relay messages among you. This is very time and power consuming, so please communicate sparringly."

THE RULES

Beta Lyrae b is a non-standard mafia game. There is no day and night; instead, game time progresses in cycles, which corresponds to the power cycle of the systems on Arcadia. Each cycle ends after 72 hours or once every player has posted 5 posts during the current cycle, whichever comes first. Players are not allowed to exceed their quota of 5 posts per cycle. Please title your post "Cycle #: post # of this cycle".

There are two factions: scientists (townies) and rebels (mafia). The scientists win when they've eliminated all of the rebels' raptors. The rebels win when they've destroyed all the passenger ships.

Elimination:

Every player may choose to include in their posts a nomination for a pilot whose raptor is to be destroyed. If a player has used up their quota of 5 posts per cycle, nominations can still be made or changed by writing additional posts. Additional posts beyond the fifth posts of a cycle can only include a nomination. Violation of this rule by posting any additional content in the same post will result in a modkill.

At the end of each cycle, a signal will be sent to destroy the most-voted for raptor. Detective work will be underway on the mothership. You will learn the identity of the eliminated pilot, as well as the code-name of the eliminated raptor, as the signal from that raptor stops. If the raptor is escorting a passenger ship, that passenger ship will be destroyed.

Destroying passenger ships:

The rebels have a special signal used to destroy passenger ships, but this signal has no effect on a raptor. The rebels can communicate on their private channel at any time. Once during each cycle, at any time when they have reached a consensus, they can officially nominate a scientist's raptor to send this passenger-ship-destroying signal toward. If the target raptor is not escorting a passenger ship, nothing happens. The target will NOT be notified of this. If the target raptor is escorting a passenger ship, the passenger ship will be destroyed, but the scientist remains in game. Everyone will be notified that a passenger ship has been destroyed, and who was escorting it.

Powers:

Beside the roll for scientists/rebels in this game, there is also a roll for raptor. Most raptors don't do anything special. Raptors whose code-name starts with VP are escorting a passenger ship. The following raptors, however, have additional capabilities, the specific of which is depends on whether they are manned by a scientist or a rebel. At any time during a cycle, the player piloting one of these raptors can send a private message indicating their intention of using their raptor's power.

- VM501: allows its pilot access to personnel information database. The pilot can gather information about another player and analyze them. Information gathering draws power, and analyzing takes time, so the pilot can only do this once every other cycle. Results will indicate target player's raptor's code-name, target player's affiliation and whether they are escorting a passenger ship. Results will be returned at the end of the next cycle after the power is activated.

- VX668: allows its pilot access to the back-up raptor detonating system. Once per cycle, the pilot can choose to force a signal to the mothership to destroy a raptor. This happens immediately (or whenever the GM reads the PM). Doing this, however, produce a traceable signal. After the first time this power is activated, the position of VX668 and the identity of its pilot will be immediately revealed to everyone.

- VZ674: allows its pilot access to an interference system. Once per cycle, the pilot can choose a player to send the interfering signal to. This will block the back-up raptor eliminating signal (initiated by VX668) and the rebels' passenger ship eliminating signal, but not the mothership's raptor eliminating signal. Once a target has been chosen for VZ674, it will remain the target until the target is changed at the next cycle, or until the end of the next cycle, whichever comes first. Upon a successful interference, the equipment needs to be recalliberated, and VZ674's ability will not be able to activate untiil the end of the next cycle.

dtsund
02-15-2012, 06:08 PM
Ah, a Deep South game, interesting. I was actually thinking about making MafiaHack III a nightless game once I got the rules for that one sorted out.

I won't be proposing MafiaHack III for the next game; the item list is in flux at the moment. It'll be a significant overhaul when it comes.

ais523
02-16-2012, 02:57 AM
Ah, a Deep South game, interesting. I was actually thinking about making MafiaHack III a nightless game once I got the rules for that one sorted out.

I won't be proposing MafiaHack III for the next game; the item list is in flux at the moment. It'll be a significant overhaul when it comes.

Right, dtsund and I are working on this one together, but it won't be ready in time to be M18.

poetfox
02-16-2012, 06:04 AM
2) I'm not terribly concerned with this. I might reword it such that any messages you send within an hour of a broadcast will be deferred until an hour is up -- I don't want to have to post a new message every couple of minutes. There won't be instant turnaround, since I do sleep, but during most hours of the day, I have a computer at hand, so I don't foresee this being a problem. If I need help, I'll ask for it. I'm sure someone in the Champagne Room would be willing to co-voice.

Still, I'd be worried. What if the RNG ends up with someone like Yimothy as the Town Voice, who is on the other side of the globe and thus does most of his posting while you'd be in bed? That'd really hurt the ability.

Maybe something like "One post every 24 hours that you can edit and add to as many times as you want until it's posted" might be a good idea. It would keep the town from doing nothing but follow the town voice, forcing them to think for themselves to some extent while still getting that guidance and letting the Town Voice have a big impact.

Red Hedgehog
02-16-2012, 07:19 AM
Red, I was gifted a copy of The Resistance, but I've never even gotten to break open the package, which is unfortunate! I'd love to give it a go. It does seem like your lengths of time are a bit long... Maybe just shorten things to 24, but be open to requests by team leader to extend the time? Or maybe add rules that let that be a thing that could be talked about and agreed upon in thread? "We need more time for this. Everyone vote on having another 24 hours."

I like that idea. Something like...

Each period of time (Choose Plot Cards, Choose Mission Team, Voting, Mission Actions) lasts 24 hours. During the entire course of the game, each player may make one request to extend a period by 24 hours.

SpoonyGundam
02-16-2012, 07:19 AM
Just make a Town Voice and Mafia Voice account, set them to be invisible, and give the passwords to whoever gets the role.

poetfox
02-16-2012, 07:39 AM
Just make a Town Voice and Mafia Voice account, set them to be invisible, and give the passwords to whoever gets the role.

The Muffler role doesn't work if that's how he handles it, though, and that's a fun idea too.

WormRider
02-16-2012, 07:55 AM
What is a Deep South game?

Things I'm unsure of about Beta Lyrae b ruleset:

- is a maximum of 72 hours each cycle too much? I imagine it will be a much faster pace game than that. Maybe 24 hours.

- does it make sense for the cycle to have a max time limit at all, or just have each player post exactly 5 times each cycle?

- in this game "nightkilled" people don't actually leave game, only lynched people. They don't even know that they were "nightkilled"! Is this a good thing? I think it will eliminate the argument of "why isn't this player dead yet if he's not mafia?" and will also allow more people to stay in game longer, thus higher rate an amount of activity, etc.

- the powered raptors and even passenger ships can belong to a scientist (town) or a rebel (mafia), so there's no relying on powered roles because you don't know what team they're playing for. If a passenger ship is destroyed on the first day though, the raptor escorting it probably will look very suspicious. What I don't know is whether there is any aspect I didn't think of. For example, it just occurred to me that if a rebel is holding a passenger ship, then to destroy it you have to weaken yourself too. This effect may or may not be desirable, I just don't know yet.

Mogri
02-16-2012, 08:05 AM
Still, I'd be worried. What if the RNG ends up with someone like Yimothy as the Town Voice, who is on the other side of the globe and thus does most of his posting while you'd be in bed? That'd really hurt the ability.

Maybe something like "One post every 24 hours that you can edit and add to as many times as you want until it's posted" might be a good idea. It would keep the town from doing nothing but follow the town voice, forcing them to think for themselves to some extent while still getting that guidance and letting the Town Voice have a big impact.

That's a good idea. The only thing is I'd want the voices to be able to post near end of day, but I could rule around that.

SpoonyGundam
02-16-2012, 08:45 AM
The Muffler role doesn't work if that's how he handles it, though, and that's a fun idea too.

It's easy enough to work around that that I can't really see the muffler actually adding much. Town Voice just posts an MD5 hash the first day, then posts the message in it when muffled. If he wants to post multiple times when muffled, he just generates a new code each post. It only takes a couple of seconds to type a sentence into any of the dozens of generators online, and it's totally secure. The only real way around something like that is to just outright ban posting codes.

poetfox
02-16-2012, 08:58 AM
It's easy enough to work around that that I can't really see the muffler actually adding much. Town Voice just posts an MD5 hash the first day, then posts the message in it when muffled. If he wants to post multiple times when muffled, he just generates a new code each post. It only takes a couple of seconds to type a sentence into any of the dozens of generators online, and it's totally secure. The only real way around something like that is to just outright ban posting codes.

A good point, though look how well codes worked last game! (Still, hopefully everyone learned from that how not to make those mistakes again.)

Well, the CONCEPT of the Muffler is cool, anyway. Heh.

Mogri
02-16-2012, 09:21 AM
outright ban posting codes.

This is actually a fairly common rule in online Mafia, due to the potential of cryptography to break the game in half.

Dizzy
02-16-2012, 09:39 AM
Banning cryptography? Why must we neuter the medium in which this game exists?

(Except for those aspects that make the game boring that is.)

Mogri
02-16-2012, 12:17 PM
Ooh, ooh, it's my turn to be Brickroad! Does this apply also to the consonant/vowel code you were using to indicate your scan results? Where do you draw the line there?

Bear in mind that I didn't invent this rule. I think the accepted practice is that you are not allowed to encrypt your posts. Breadcrumbs are allowed and impossible to prevent in practice anyway.

McClain
02-16-2012, 12:44 PM
Again, I don't think there's much need for a hard rule. Codes can be broken, and just are limited in usefulness in most games, and if they are overly complicated a lot of players (like myself) will just ignore them. What is the difference between "I'll say 'fuck' in my first post" and "I'll give you a string of numbers and a cypher"? It's just a matter of degrees, and it doesn't usually even prove that you are clean or a certain role.

Destil
02-16-2012, 01:08 PM
In general I'm 100% behind Brick and Nich's stance of rules needing to be enforceable and having no greyarea.

But for what it's worth I did flat out say 'no' when the M5 mafia asked if use stenography to communicate during the day was legal. At this point the forum's aware of such potential I think I'd allow it (since the price of getting caught is pretty damn high).

kaisel
02-16-2012, 02:03 PM
...Stegnography?

Hiding text in images, usually requiring someone to open the image in some sort of hex editor or text editor to see it at the end, or if you want to be sneaky about it, there are programs that encrypt text within an image and you'll need a password and the program to decrypt it.

kaisel
02-16-2012, 02:10 PM
I know what stegnography is. I wanted to make sure that's what Destil meant, as opposed to forbidding the use of shorthand.

Oops, sorry. I must have glossed over the typo.

Dizzy
02-16-2012, 02:15 PM
Destil, what's up man? You drunk posting?

Karzac
02-16-2012, 05:27 PM
Alright, here is my idea for a variation on the M17 ruleset. Note that these are flavourless and very rough and I won't be pitching this for M18 but I just wanted to see if I'm on the right track or not.

The basic rules are the same as M17: same day/night, same lynch/nightkill reveal structure, same special loss condition. The only basic difference is that the game would be meant for 20 players rather than 26. Some role titles have been stolen borrowed from other games.

There are five powered Town roles, which I'll call the M5 for lack of a better term
Leader: The leader is always aware of the identities of the M5 and is immune to Roleblocking and Scrambling.
Coroner: The Coroner always gets correct lynch information and is immune to Forging.
Tracker: The Tracker is aware of the target of every night action.
Angel: The Angel can protect one player from being nightkilled. If the Angel succesfully prevents a nightkill, the power is not usable the next night.
Inspector: The Inspector can find out the identity of one other player each night.

There are four Mafia roles:
Roleblocker: Once per night, the Roleblocker picks another player and blocks their power for the night.
Forger: Once per night, the Forger picks one target to forger. That player will show up with the identity of the Forger's choice upon lynch or inspection.
Limiter: Once per game, the Limiter can choose to have the following day end 24 hours early.
Scrambler: Once per game, the Scrambler can scramble the game. This randomly takes the power of one of the M5 and reassigns it to a random, unpowered Citizen. The player who previously had that power no longer counts as one of the M5, but is unaware that any change has taken place. They are not made aware that any change has occurred, but there power is rendered useless. The new recipient of the power is now a member of the M5.

My basic idea for this was that Town powers should be based on getting information and Mafia powers should be based on confusing or limiting information. I'm pretty sure there's something game-breakingly weak or strong about the Scrambler and possibly the Tracker, but I really liked both of those ideas so I wanted to suggest them. I also have the feeling that the Roleblocker is too weak, but I might be wrong.

Anyway, tear it apart. I want to know exactly what I've done wrong.

McClain
02-16-2012, 05:33 PM
Does the mafia need some kind of inspector since they would want to try to find members of the M5?

Karzac
02-16-2012, 05:38 PM
Yeah, I was thinking that, but I can't make it work with the Roleblocker and the Scrambler. I don't think an inspector is absolutely necessary though. They don't need to find the M5 to win; it's just an added bonus if they do.

Yimothy
02-16-2012, 05:39 PM
What's the point of not telling someone they've been scrambled? Wouldn't most of the powers realise it straight away when they could no longer inspect or whatever? Or would you start giving false results?

Also, the leader finds out about the change in M5 membership?

McClain
02-16-2012, 05:47 PM
I really like the leader role for this set. It'll suck if he gets nightkilled, though. But that's the way with any game with power roles.

Karzac
02-16-2012, 05:55 PM
Yes, the leader would know about the change.

Yes, I would start giving out false results, e. The Coroner would basically end up being as affected by Lies as everyone else. The Inspector would get the opposite of the truth. The Angel ask to protect somebody, but it wouldn't do anything. I'd randomly pick names to give the Tracker, but it would be a number of names that would make sense.

The point of that is to stop a situation where the Inspector gets scrambled halfway through the game and now feels safe sharing his results, because he knows that if he gets killed, there's a new Inspector out there.

The way I see, the Scrambler is useful for three reasons. First, if it hits the Tracker, Inspector or Coroner midway through the game, the new recipient of that power will have no idea what the first person had already learned. It basically sends that M5 back to square one. If it hits the Angel it wouldn't have much of an effect, but whatever.

Second, it makes the M5 start to doubt themselves. Not so much that they'll be useless, I hope, but enough to make things interesting. Once again, the effect on the Angel would be pretty minimal.

Finally, it would make role reveals completely ridiculous. If I'm the Inspector and somebody else reveals that their the Inspector, I now have to worry that they might be telling the truth. Do I risk a reveal, or start doubting every one of my Inspections? Also, the Tracker and Leader will know that the Scrambler has been used, so if things get really confusing, one of them might have to reveal or try to subtly steer the town in the right direction.

So it would be super wacky and crazy, which I like. Plus, it lets more people have interesting roles to play in the game, which is always good.

poetfox
02-16-2012, 05:57 PM
I mean, it's not My Little Pony, so...

But no, that seems like a fine variant. My mind is just kind of spinning at what the leader could do, though. I like the idea, but man, it's like... guess what the Mafia is fronting every time someone is about to die! Since there's no way to confirm it. But that's kind of the beauty of it, since having a reduced suspect list and list of people you can trust is, honestly, a pretty good power.

I also don't really like the Scrambler. Mostly because I am really unsure why the Mafia would ever use it. Why would they make it harder on themselves to find the M5 by undoing all the data they had so far?

Edit: Okay, your Scrambler description you posted while I was typing this sold me. Complaint rescinded. Chaos is awesome.

Karzac
02-16-2012, 06:05 PM
Just to address that issues anyway poet, one of the other things I was thinking about when coming up with this was forcing the Mafia to do their own detective work, just like the town. The Inspector, Leader, Coroner and Tracker will probably be giving off tells and an observant Mafia should be able to notice them.

The Scrambler comes into that in kind of the same way a conversion power does. If the Mafia uses the Scrambler and all of a sudden one player is super quiet, they'll be able to make an educated guess as to why.

dtsund
02-16-2012, 06:05 PM
What is a Deep South game?

Deep South games are games with no night phase, where all roles act during the day. Play proceeds from one day phase straight to the next.

schep
02-16-2012, 06:21 PM
I'd randomly pick names to give the Tracker, but it would be a number of names that would make sense.

I know it's still just a draft, but: Don't put subjective things in the rules when you can help it.

Karzac
02-16-2012, 06:28 PM
I know it's still just a draft, but: Don't put subjective things in the rules when you can help it.

What do you mean?

poetfox
02-16-2012, 06:31 PM
What do you mean? Names "that would make sense" is subjective. You have to make a judgement call on what would make sense.

Caithness
02-16-2012, 06:40 PM
... but I'll probably pitch P4 mafia again. Not sure why since The Organization II will probably win, and I won't have enough time to write the flavor text anyway. I guess it just feels silly to not try.

I'll be up for running/playing some short experimental game too (see the other thread).

I've got a game open over on The Brontoforumus (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?topic=6161.0) that is both short and experimental. It still needs four more players to start.

Karzac
02-16-2012, 06:40 PM
I suppose so, but there are limits. I think everybody can assume that the Angel, Inspector, Roleblocker and Forger would use their powers at every opportunity. The Scrambler also has a targeted power, even though the target is random. So there would never be more than five names. The Tracker would know if the Angel's power was recharging, so on one of those night, the max number of names would be four. If the Angel or Inspector were nightkilled, that would bring the number down further. The lower limit would be harder to figure out, but there would always be a minimum possible number, assuming those powers were being used at every opportunity.

Unless you thought I meant that I'd make the names themselves make sense. No, I'd make those completely random.

Mogri
02-16-2012, 09:00 PM
Anyway, tear it apart. I want to know exactly what I've done wrong.

Here are my comments on this theoretical ruleset:

- The Leader. The ability by itself is fine, but if the Scrambler happens to target the Leader, Mafia's screwed. I'd make the Leader scramble-immune.
- The Tracker is probably not too strong. A more traditional Tracker targets a specific player to learn whom that player targeted, but on a team that already has an actual investigator, a pseudoinvestigator is a bit much, so this role is fine as-is.
- The Coroner. This is intended as a balancing element against the Forger, but it's not a very interesting role. If the Coroner dies before D2, is the Forger overpowered? Probably not. This isn't a bad role; it's just not very influential.
- The Roleblocker. This power has a very small chance of doing anything. Even if you target one of the four roles that can be affected by it, there's no obvious effect from it. That makes this a very unfulfilling role. I'd replace this role completely.
- The Forger. See the Coroner.
- The Limiter. I don't feel like this power makes much of a difference. I'd consider making it reduce the next day to 24 hours, giving the town a warning on the day it's used.
- The Scrambler. This is an interesting power. The only change I'd suggest is allowing the Scrambler to pick which role to scramble if the power is used after N3. The obvious use of this power is to scramble on N1; this change would add a little more depth.

In general, the alternate wincon is meaningless in a game where there's no way to learn the identity of the power roles.

Not all of these are flaws in my mind, but they're worth considering.

McClain
02-16-2012, 09:22 PM
Scrambler seems kinda crazy to me. I'm not sure if I'd like playing with it.

I can't remember if I just made this up for a pitch or if it was discussed for another game, but I like the idea of a limiter that can choose to either cut the day at 24 hours if used the night before or at 48 if used in the first 24 hours of the day. This way the limiter can take the risk of "triggering" a shortened day if they see it going a way that's favorable to the mafia. Of course this puts a burden on the GM to take that command.

Alpha Werewolf
02-16-2012, 09:35 PM
Reversing inspection results is highly dangerous! If the players figures out when the Scramble occured, all of his results are usable because he just reverses the verdict. I'd just give the answer as though the player he targeted was 'missing', or some other failure state.

For extra fun, make roleblocking cause the same failure state.

Yimothy
02-17-2012, 12:10 AM
- The Leader. The ability by itself is fine, but if the Scrambler happens to target the Leader, Mafia's screwed. I'd make the Leader scramble-immune.

Leader: The leader is always aware of the identities of the M5 and is immune to Roleblocking and Scrambling.

I don't really see how this would screw the mafia even if it were possible. What makes two people knowing all the power roles worse than just one?

dtsund
02-17-2012, 12:13 AM
In general, the alternate wincon is meaningless in a game where there's no way to learn the identity of the power roles.

Yeah, no, I don't think this is even slightly true.

Yimothy
02-17-2012, 01:10 AM
The alternate win condition without an inspector allows the mafia to play the same game as the town if they want, trying to figure out who they need to kill. I think it's much better than giving them an inspector actually. Look at how the mafia inspector allowed the avatars to solve the game in M17.

Raven
02-17-2012, 01:46 AM
Look at how the mafia inspector allowed the avatars to solve the game in M17.

Er, well, we helped them a lot by exposing half of our power players during the first couple of days.

While playing, I did think that the combination of 'Evil + kill all the Mane 6 victory condition' is too much, but maybe things would have been different if the early reveals don't happen. We probably need more samples to be really sure, though; one game is really too small a sample size to draw any sort of conclusion.

(although I also agreed that a game with alternate wincon and Inspector-less Mafia team could probably still work).

Yimothy
02-17-2012, 02:12 AM
Sure, but the point is that by the end of the game they had inspected effectively everybody. Even without the reveals it would only have taken a few more days. The town inspector is balanced by the risk involved in revealing their information. The mafia inspector has no such risk.

poetfox
02-17-2012, 04:31 AM
I agree that part of the reason everyone had been scanned was way too many reveals from the town, but they still would have been in a PRETTY good position even without them. Nich named most of the Mane 6 in his suspect list on Night 2, if I recall.

However, now that this is being talked about, maybe giving the Mafia one less dude AND killing their inspector is a bit much? I mean, I'd give it a go as is, but that's two big nerfs, to be sure.

spineshark
02-17-2012, 04:32 AM
I'm working on a pitch that probably won't be ready for M18 because there's already so many ready to go. (Besides, it looks like it might finally be time for Organization II, and I still want that more than anything.) Still, I'd like to get a bit of early reaction/input in during the concept phase because, needless to say, I want this to go better than M14. It was a 10 on the dick-o-meter when we were really only aiming for a 5 or 6, but this time I'm hoping for like, a 3 or lower. I'm using M14 as the basis for comparison and tweaking, but only because I worked on that one. Really what I'm hoping for is something that feels like M8.

Major overall changes I have in mind:
1) Simplified game flow and initial state, with a slightly smaller player count. No "phases" or anything like that, and only one mafia team. However, I'm thinking of including a Secret Boss and possibly one other unafilliated anti-town role.
2) No roles appearing out of the blue. What I'm trying to do, unless people object, is come up with a few more abilities than may actually be in the game, and put all of them out for people to see. That way, there'll be a little bit of suspense and surprise in the precise game state, even for the mafia, but nobody will have a quintuple cop come out of nowhere to bludgeon them. (I am so, so sorry.)
3) Related to that, and I assume this won't be a surprise, the completely boneheaded roles from M14 won't be returning. Powers that definitely don't make the cut: 4-player town mason team, both inspectors, double-evil-wizphone (in case that wasn't obvious from the elimination of mafia2 in the first place). Powers I'm considering attempting to bring back: random skill draw (with a few more unavailabilities), Contract, Mafia daychat.
4) Other powers that weren't used or interesting will be axed. I'm not sure yet whether or not this game will have a significant contingent of plain town players (although I'm starting to think, "probably"), but I'd rather have a handful of unpowered people than a group of people whose power is confusing and doesn't really interact nicely with the format (for example, the bizarre vote manipulations we tried to set up in M14).
5) All anti-town players will have complete, unique alibis. This isn't an excuse to allow posting of role PMs, but insurance against scenarios like that or massclaims. Investigation results (if any) will still come out true.
6) No flavor-based mechanical guesswork. In other words, any cop (and I'm pretty sure there's 1 or less in the cards) will be based on finding alignment or role, not "character" as in M14. Death reports will be clear, and you'll know whether or not they're capable of being falsified. If I come up with completely new flavor, I think these things will come out naturally, but so far I haven't been able to come up with an original theme.

The concept I have been working from so far instead is a shmup game crossover, which, aside from leading me to come up with a couple of awesome powers already, is something I hope will have a bit of familiarity and appeal, without just encouraging people to comb wikis in an attempt to completely decipher and deconstruct the game. If it ends up going through like that, the tone will mostly be just off-the-wall insane and bizarre, and the cast of characters I've been able to come up with so far should be entertaining enough to amuse even people who've never heard of anything more obscure than Ikaruga.

I know that's all promising a lot, which is why I saved the best, and easiest, part for last: every player will have a bitchin' theme song. If that doesn't sound good, I just don't know what does.

Karzac
02-17-2012, 07:26 AM
Thanks for the comments guys, I'll try addressing some more of them.

Here are my comments on this theoretical ruleset:
- The Leader. The ability by itself is fine, but if the Scrambler happens to target the Leader, Mafia's screwed. I'd make the Leader scramble-immune.

Like Yimothy already mentioned, The Leader is Scambler-immune. I'm two to threee steps ahead of you!

The Tracker is probably not too strong. A more traditional Tracker targets a specific player to learn whom that player targeted, but on a team that already has an actual investigator, a pseudoinvestigator is a bit much, so this role is fine as-is.

The main idea behind the Tracker is that they'll be able to make some educated guesses about power roles. For instance, near the beginning of the game, optimal use of the Angel and Forger powers is to use it on yourself. If the Tracker sees a couple people constantly being targetted, they will know those players are probably the Angel and the Forger.

The Coroner. This is intended as a balancing element against the Forger, but it's not a very interesting role. If the Coroner dies before D2, is the Forger overpowered? Probably not. This isn't a bad role; it's just not very influential.

You're right about this. About the only thing I can think of to make it more interesting is adding a Ring of Warning-style addition: the Coroner gets to prepare a note to be reveal upon his or her death. That would give them something more to do.


- The Roleblocker. This power has a very small chance of doing anything. Even if you target one of the four roles that can be affected by it, there's no obvious effect from it. That makes this a very unfulfilling role. I'd replace this role completely.

You might be right. I'll think on this.

- The Limiter. I don't feel like this power makes much of a difference. I'd consider making it reduce the next day to 24 hours, giving the town a warning on the day it's used.

I like McClain's suggestion upthread about making the Day 24 hours-long if used the night before, or 48-hours-long if used the day of.

- The Scrambler. This is an interesting power. The only change I'd suggest is allowing the Scrambler to pick which role to scramble if the power is used after N3. The obvious use of this power is to scramble on N1; this change would add a little more depth.

I agree with your change, but not your complaint. Why would the Mafia use the power on Night 1? That's giving the new M5 way too much time to figure stuff out. It would essentially make the power meaningless.

I do agree with Alpha's suggestion about making the way the Scrambler and Roleblocker falsify information identical. That way, a player wouldn't know if they were scrambled or simply blocked.

I may add in a fifth Mafia with a weak investigation power, just to make the Roleblocker more effective. I'm not sure how I'd do it though. Also, 5 Mafia in a twenty player game seems like too many.

Alpha Werewolf
02-17-2012, 07:40 AM
A quarter is just about right for most games, actually.

Yimothy
02-17-2012, 08:11 AM
I think that if the town loses when their power roles die, there need to be more power roles than mafia unless the town powers are really strong. If there's five of each, then the town have to find five out of twenty (while avoiding another five), and the mafia only have to find five out of fifteen, with no risk of taking out one of their own. That's a big advantage for the mafia.

Alpha Werewolf
02-17-2012, 08:26 AM
I'm reffering to mafia games in general. I'm honestly not sure what number would be balanced for this variation on mafia.

namelessentity
02-17-2012, 10:17 AM
In general I'm 100% behind Brick and Nich's stance of rules needing to be enforceable and having no greyarea.

But for what it's worth I did flat out say 'no' when the M5 mafia asked if use stenography to communicate during the day was legal. At this point the forum's aware of such potential I think I'd allow it (since the price of getting caught is pretty damn high).

And because of that discussion, I now check every single image that is ever posted in a mafia game.

Dizzy
02-17-2012, 07:27 PM
Here's my Bongo Bill-influenced pitch for M18:


MAFIA

1. Factions:


Mafia
Civilian


2. Phases:


Day (72 hr.): All players discuss the events of the game in the game thread and vote on who to kill by the end of the day. The player with the most votes is killed and their role and faction revealed.

Night (48 hr.): Mafia discuss the events of the game and decide together who they want dead. The role and faction of their victims are revealed at dawn.


3. Rules:


No communication outside GM-designated areas. No editing of posts. All posts must be 800 words or less (that's a little bit over a single, solid page of text in an MS Word document). Any player who exceeds 800 words in one post will be expelled. Multiple consecutive posts from a single player will count as one except when 3 hours pass between posts. Quotes, tags and pictures do not count but if the GM feels they are abused to bypass this rule, you will be punished.
Votes must be made in the following form: "I vote (for) ..." in BOLD at the very bottom of each post.


[I]4. Roles:


Civilians: Powerless. May vote for a player to die each day.

Angel: May protect one player from death nightly. May not protect the same player twice in a row.

Vigilante: May kill one player nightly. The power takes two nights to recharge after a successful kill.

Sane Detective: May learn of the role and faction of one player nightly. Always gets the right results. If the Sane Detective investigates themselves, they will get a result but they will lose their power.

Insane Detective: May learn of the role and faction of one player nightly. Always gets the wrong results. If the Insane Detective investigates themselves, they will get a result but they will lose their power.

Mafia: Powerless. May decide consensually which player to kill each night.


***

I WILL POLL SUPPORTERS OF THIS GAME IF THEY WANT AN "ANONYMITY" OPTION OR NOT SINCE APPARENTLY NONE OF YOU GIVE A FUCK

Yimothy
02-17-2012, 07:40 PM
I'm with you on the ruleset Dizzy, aside from the 12 hours between double posts thing. For most players that's only an issue if the game is coming to a complete halt, but basically every time you western hemispherians go to bed there are gaps of several hours between when I post and when someone gets up and responds. Why not just a two or three hour waiting period?

Also anonymity isn't going to work well for me for the same reason, but I don't really mind if people figure out who I am so it's no problem.

Dizzy
02-17-2012, 07:45 PM
I think I might have some sort of Master Schedule where I know when everyone is active to play and have the Day and Night Phases built around that info. The phases might be shorter as a result. At the very least it would make the game less time-consuming.

I'll shorten the hours between posts.

Brickroad
02-18-2012, 07:51 AM
Eddie and I are ready to pitch The Organization again. Who are we going to tie with this time?

Dizzy
02-18-2012, 07:54 AM
Brick, if you promise to make anonymity a feature of the game, I will drop out the race and back you up. I'm probably not much competition to begin with but it'll be one less game to compete with.

And if you break your promise I break your neck.

Red Hedgehog
02-18-2012, 08:00 AM
I'm assuming The Organization is going to trounce everything. But for those who don't want to play it, The Resistance can be played with as few as 5 people, so I'm happy to run my game in parallel if there's enough interest.

schep
02-18-2012, 08:04 AM
What's this anonymity deal about? Couldn't anybody who wants to join any game anonymously just create a new forum account and sign up under that name? And of course, anyone who doesn't want anonymity can just admit who they are, no matter how you set it up. For my part, I probably wouldn't actually care.

Dizzy
02-18-2012, 08:12 AM
With a few exceptions, sock puppet accounts are not allowed here.

Brickroad
02-18-2012, 08:21 AM
anonymity

Nobody cares about this except you.

Dizzy
02-18-2012, 08:45 AM
That absolutely sucks.

Alpha Werewolf
02-18-2012, 11:06 AM
I care (as in 'it would be cool'), but I accept the twin facts that it's insanely difficult to do in this specific forum (due to forum policies etc.) and that most people wouldn't want to open an account on a completely different forum to play it.

Destil
02-18-2012, 02:24 PM
Eddie and I are ready to pitch The Organization again. Who are we going to tie with this time?

For what it's worth I'm only planning on voting for this this time, regardless of the other choices.

schep
02-18-2012, 03:36 PM
I'm assuming The Organization is going to trounce everything. But for those who don't want to play it, The Resistance can be played with as few as 5 people, so I'm happy to run my game in parallel if there's enough interest.

I think the folks who want to play The Organization should go ahead and do that. Sounds a bit too item-crazy for my tastes, though, so yeah, I would be interested in some other game-type-thing which might overlap its timeframe.

poetfox
02-20-2012, 09:12 AM
The Time of Voting Draws Near?

Solitayre
02-20-2012, 01:10 PM
I think we are ready to vote, yes!

dtsund
02-20-2012, 02:21 PM
dtsund and ais523 present, for your appraisal...

MafiaHack III: Hack Harder: This Time It's Personal

Barring overwhelming demand, this is not a submission for Game 18; rather, it's to allow open appraisal and commenting on the rules.



Hello, player, welcome to MafiaHack! (For instructions type a ?)

?

Among you are a number of evildoers, who wish to thwart your attempt to reach the Amulet of Yendor. If they ever kill enough of you to match your numbers, it will be over for you.

Thankfully, there's a handy shopkeeper nearby willing to sell his wares to the highest bidder. Sadly, he won't tell you what any of the items do; while all Potions of Enlightenment will be the same color, for example, you won't initially know what that color is. At the start of each day phase, in addition to opening discussion and allowing voting, a number of items will be put up for bids, selected at random; each player may use some or all of their starting money to bid on the items. Bids are done by PM; the other players don't get to see your bids. The player who bids the most on an item at the end of the day wins it, but must surrender his bid's worth of money regardless of what the other players bid. You may keep changing your bid until the current day ends. Ties will be resolved randomly. Winning an item gives you the ability to use that item, but the power may be one-time use in nature, disappearing after use. If you die, the items in your possession are not revealed. Your enemies may bid on and use items, the same as other players.

Each day, 5 + 1d2 items will be offered for bidding.

This game will be played under Deep South rules; there will be no night phase. The Mafia will be able to communicate 24/7, and their kill takes effect at the end of the current day phase (after everything else resolves). Item uses will take effect at each vote count, and said vote counts will be at 24-hour intervals. Days will be the standard 72 hours.

You may not give your money to anyone else. You may, however, give items away at any time; PM me and I'll transfer the item to the other player's inventory at the next vote count.

Everyone starts with the indicated amount of spending money.

The Mafia may individually bid on and use items. Regardless of when they submit their kill choice, the kill is the last thing to happen in a given day. With the full resources of whatever evil they serve behind them, they get 65 zorkmids each.

The Players are this game's Citizens. They get powers only from the use of items. They get 50 zorkmids each.

The Wizard starts with no money, but 3 + 1d2 random-ish* items from the below list, plus a free Scroll of Mail, identified and all.

The Tourist is identical to the regular players, except that he starts with 65 zorkmids instead of 50.

Additionally, 2d2 random (non-Wizard) players will start with a known Scroll of Mail.

All items take the form of potions, scrolls, wands, or rings. Rings act passively; when purchased, you may choose to put them on to enjoy the effects, or take them off to nullify them. Potions can either be drunk (giving you the effects) or thrown (giving someone else of your choice the effects). Scrolls can be read for the desired effect, but will crumble to dust when used. Wands can be zapped at another player, living or dead; each wand has only one charge on it, however, so it can only be used once. Used wands do not leave your inventory (because they can potentially be recharged).

Items are as follows. When an item is used, the effect takes place at the next vote count. Where conflicts in the players' usage of items may arise, the Scroll of Confuse Monster takes highest priority; the Wand of Lightning gets lowest priority. Some items are automatically identified on use, as noted below.


Wands: All wands are used by zapping at another player or yourself. Each wand starts with exactly one charge.

Wand of Wishing: Regardless of who the target was, zapping this wand gives the user either 50 more zorkmids or the item of his or her choice. Beware, though; attempting to recharge a spent Wand of Wishing will cause it to explode, killing the bearer. Identified on use.

Wand of Light: All item-based actions taken by the target of this wand for the next three vote counts (including the one in which this is used) become publically announced, unless he or she is wearing a Ring of Invisibility.

Wand of Teleportation: Temporarily removes the target from item-based play. All item-based actions and all kill attempts against the target of this wand fail for the next three vote counts, as do all such things attempted by the target. The target may still participate in auctions, however.

Wand of Striking: Clubs the target over the head, to no effect other than informing the target who zapped him.

Wand of Lightning: Instantly kills the target; this wand makes a godawful racket when used, so everyone knows you're the culprit. Beware, though; attempting to recharge a spent Wand of Lightning more than once will cause it to explode, killing the bearer. Identified on use.

Wand of Polymorph: Scrambles the investigation results provided by the Potion of Holy Water and Wand of Probing for the next three vote counts. If the target is lynched within this time period, the final identity given to the town will be false.

Wand of Digging: Retrieves a dead player's inventory, including money, if zapped at a dead player. No effect if zapped at a living player.

Wand of Cancellation: Destroys all items in the target's inventory.

Wand of Probing: Reveals the affiliation of the zapped target to whomever zapped him. Identified on use.


Potions: All potions may be drunk (giving the drinker the effects) or thrown (giving the target the effects).

Potion of Enlightenment: Reveals the items that will be sold the next day, assuming no Rings of Sustain Ability are worn. Identified on use.

Potion of Holy Water: The user, if evil, will be publically revealed to be covered in burns. No effect on innocent players. These results are reversed by polymorph.

Potion of Acid: The user will be publically revealed to be covered in burns, regardless of alignment.

Potion of Healing: The user will be immune to non-lynch kills for three vote counts. Instantly reverses the effects of the Potion of Sickness. Identified on use.

Potion of Sickness: The user will die after six vote counts. Identified on use.

Potion of Object Detection: The user may specify an item sold in a previous auction, and is told where the item now is, if it still exists. Identified on use.

Potion of Confusion: For the next three vote counts, all attempts by the user to read a scroll will simply waste the scroll, and all attempts to otherwise target another player will be as though a random target had been chosen.


Scrolls: All scrolls may be used by reading them. All scrolls are identified when read.

Scroll of Charging: Adds a charge to a wand in your inventory. Be careful about charging Wands of Wishing or Wands of Lightning, however. Identified on use.

Scroll of Gold Detection: Reveals the gold count of the player of your choice when read. Identified on use.

Scroll of Scare Monster: No effect when read. Blocks the regular Mafia kill (but no item-based kills) if possessed, but crumbles to dust in the process. Identified on use.

Scroll of Mail: Opens a permanent private communication channel between yourself and the player of your choice when read. Identified on use.

Scroll of Fire: No effect when read. If held in your inventory when you die, you will have until the next vote count to name a player; if that player was responsible for your death (by being Mafia if Mafia-killed, by being the zapper of a Wand of Lightning, or by voting for you), you will retaliate by instantly killing that player.

Scroll of Confuse Monster: When read, this scroll allows the reader to choose a player. That player will suffer the same effect as drinking a Potion of Confusion. Identified on use.

Scroll of Identify: Allows the player to learn the identity of one of the game's items. The player may either provide an item type and learn what it looks like, or an item appearance and learn what it actually is. The item in question need not be in the player's inventory. Identified on use.

Scroll of Amnesia: Instantly scrambles all item identities and closes all communication channels opened by the Scroll of Mail. Identified on use, for all the good it'll do you.


Rings: All rings may be put on or taken off, with this taking effect at the next vote count.

Ring of Sustain Ability: For each one of these rings worn at the end of a day, one additional item will be available for auction at the start of the next day.

Ring of Aggravate Monster: While worn, this ring makes the identity of anybody targeting you for any purpose public knowledge, though it will not be revealed what they did to you.

Ring of Life Saving: While worn, this ring prevents all non-lynch kills from acting on you, but will crumble to dust as soon as it blocks one such kill. If you're lynched, though, the town makes sure to remove your jewellery from your hands before you're killed, so this won't help you there.

Ring of Warning: While worn, you may give the GM a message to relay to the town in the event of your untimely demise. The most recent message given to the GM will be used. Identifed on use.

Ring of Hunger: Cursed; cannot be removed, and cannot be given away once put on. The wearer dies of starvation after three vote counts. Identified on use.

Ring of Invisibility: While worn, actions where your involvement would otherwise be broadcast publically (as, for example, from being hit with a Potion of Acid, or as a result of a Wand of Light) will not become public knowledge; only you will be told that they happened.

Ring of Stealth: If worn at the end of a day, your vote will not have any weight in the final vote count.

Ring of Adornment: If worn at the end of a day, all nonzero item bids will be counted as though they were 5 zorkmids higher than they actually were.

Ring of Free Action: While worn, all item uses on your part that would otherwise fail (due to confusion, teleportation, etc.) will still work properly.



Item generation: All of the above items are equally likely to be generated in the auction each day. The Wizard will never start with a Wand of Wishing, Potion of Acid, Ring of Hunger, Ring of Adornment, or Ring of Steatlth, and additionally will not start with a Scroll of Charging if he or she does not start with a wand.

Accusations and voting will be done as usual. The identities of all killed players will be made public, with the caveat that polymorph will reverse the result.

This game will be co-modded by myself and ais523. Editing posts, deleting posts, and posting in the meta thread are all verboten. Violators will be struck down with wide-angle disintegration beams, and you know I'll do it too.

Mogri
02-20-2012, 03:45 PM
Potion of Enlightenment: Reveals the items that will be sold the next day, assuming no Rings of Sustain Ability are worn. Identified on use.

Scroll of Confuse Monster: When read, this scroll allows the reader to choose a player. That player will suffer the same effect as drinking a Potion of Confusion. Identified on use.

Scroll of Amnesia: Instantly scrambles all item identities and closes all communication channels opened by the Scroll of Mail. Identified on use, for all the good it'll do you.

Ring of Hunger: Cursed; cannot be removed, and cannot be given away once put on. The wearer dies of starvation after three vote counts. Identified on use.

Ring of Adornment: If worn at the end of a day, all nonzero item bids will be counted as though they were 5 zorkmids higher than they actually were.

Enlightenment: Does this reveal the items' identities, the items' appearance, or both?

Confusion: Does a confused player know he's confused? Also, potion doesn't say identified on use.

Amnesia: This is heavily weighted towards the Mafia, who already have daytalk. Item scrambling is probably not a big deal unless it also changes the identity of items already in your possession, which would be weird.

Hunger: I dislike the idea of an uncounterable "screw you" item. I'd change it so that you die if you go three days without a potion (thrown at you or quaffed).

Adornment: You don't have to pay the 5 extra, right?

dtsund
02-20-2012, 03:53 PM
Enlightenment: Does this reveal the items' identities, the items' appearance, or both?

Appearance, not identity. Identity would be quite broken.

Confusion: Does a confused player know he's confused? Also, potion doesn't say identified on use.

No, the player doesn't know he's confused. And not being identified on use was intentional.

Amnesia: This is heavily weighted towards the Mafia, who already have daytalk. Item scrambling is probably not a big deal unless it also changes the identity of items already in your possession, which would be weird.

The Mafia will probably also have daytalk with some citizens themselves; in M10, they used it to devastating effect. And of course it'll also change the identity of stuff in your possession, since there's really no other way to implement that. All players will also be told what your stuff looks like after the amnesia.

Hunger: I dislike the idea of an uncounterable "screw you" item. I'd change it so that you die if you go three days without a potion (thrown at you or quaffed).

I didn't say it explicitly, but Healing's lifesaving effect does work here (it blocks all kills that aren't lynches), as does the Ring of Life Saving. Cancellation would also save you. You've got options.

Also note that it's three vote counts (effectively one day overall), not three days.

Adornment: You don't have to pay the 5 extra, right?

Correct.

Mogri
02-20-2012, 03:56 PM
And of course it'll also change the identity of stuff in your possession, since there's really no other way to implement that. All players will also be told what your stuff looks like after the amnesia.

Let me be explicit here to make sure we're on the same page: reading a scroll of amnesia changes not only the appearance but also the identity of every item in the game? You seemed clear on this distinction when talking about Enlightenment, but I can't fathom that this is what you meant - that reading your scroll can turn my ring of life saving into a ring of hunger.

dtsund
02-20-2012, 03:58 PM
Let me be explicit here to make sure we're on the same page: reading a scroll of amnesia changes not only the appearance but also the identity of every item in the game? You seemed clear on this distinction when talking about Enlightenment, but I can't fathom that this is what you meant - that reading your scroll can turn my ring of life saving into a ring of hunger.

All it changes are appearances. It changes how all items look, not what they do.

breakman
02-20-2012, 06:30 PM
I didn't say it explicitly, but Healing's lifesaving effect does work here (it blocks all kills that aren't lynches), as does the Ring of Life Saving. Cancellation would also save you. You've got options.

Also note that it's three vote counts (effectively one day overall), not three days.

I don't know if any more options are really necessary, but in terms of flavor, maybe Holy Water should allow you to remove the ring?

dtsund
02-20-2012, 06:33 PM
It'd fit the theme, but I'm trying to avoid bringing the full TDTDOE-ishness of NetHack into this, since it'd be too easy to make a game that only NetHack vets could fully comprehend. Otherwise I could include blank paper and magic markers, thrones, fountains, alchemy, altars and BUC status...

Brickroad
02-21-2012, 01:13 PM
So is someone gonna make a poll? I'd do it but I'm confused as to who else is actually running.

Dizzy
02-21-2012, 01:16 PM
I'm surprised you haven't bugged Nich to do it yet. Come on, it's tradition. He's gotta do it.

Solitayre
02-21-2012, 01:42 PM
Brickroad and Eddie's Organization II

Red Hedgehog's The Resistance

Mogri's Arcana Mafia

Wormrider's Beta Lyrai b

Dizzy's Anonymous Mafia

I think that's all the ones running this time?

Dizzy
02-21-2012, 02:13 PM
I made "anonymity" optional if people are willing to get behind it or not--otherwise it is simply Mafia.

Please correct this error.

No Thing II? ;_;

Destil
02-21-2012, 02:27 PM
No Thing II? ;_;

Thing II will be back after we play The Organization II, given the previous ties I feel it should get top billing.

Red Hedgehog
02-21-2012, 02:45 PM
Oh man, Dizzy, I would totally vote for your game (with anonymity) if I felt I had the time to play mafia now. Sounds great!

EDIT: Also, updated the earlier rules I posted for The Resistance with clarifications and the 24 hour time periods.

breakman
02-21-2012, 08:40 PM
So, is everybody else waiting for someone else to do the poll, too?

...

Alright, hopefully this isn't complicated...

WormRider
02-21-2012, 09:50 PM
Wait... I am proposing beta lyrae b for M18? ... What about P4? >__<

I mean, sorry guys, I posted beta lyrae b mostly for appraisal. I am currently too hosed with class work to run or play anything. Not that I think my games will win, but just in case, I officially withdraw both games.

Brickroad
02-29-2012, 06:00 PM
M18 Champagne Room is live. PM me or Eddie for an invite. (Please do not PM Agent Prime for an invite. He's got enough on his plate as it is.)

Unfortunately, dead players will not be able to join us there. So it'll probably just be me and Eddie talking to each other about how awesome our game is while Mazo makes fun of people. And now that I think about it, that sounds pretty fun.

McClain
03-01-2012, 04:38 PM
M18 Champagne Room is live. PM me or Eddie for an invite. (Please do not PM Agent Prime for an invite. He's got enough on his plate as it is.)

Unfortunately, dead players will not be able to join us there. So it'll probably just be me and Eddie talking to each other about how awesome our game is while Mazo makes fun of people. And now that I think about it, that sounds pretty fun.

Oh what the hell, I'll take a seat at the captain's table. This game won't be much fun to spectate without inside knowledge I think.

Mogri
03-01-2012, 09:58 PM
I'll throw in as an alternate now that I have some idea of how this game works.

Umby
03-04-2012, 04:24 PM
Can I have a Champagne Room invite?

Bongo Bill
03-07-2012, 09:24 PM
Hey, Mafia fans! Do you like total pandemonium? Do you want to show off for and/or get killed by a bunch of notorious ne'er-do-wells? Talking Time's onetime sister community, Brontoforumus, is accepting signups for Vampires Versus Werewolves IX (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?board=33.0), which is certain to be the most outrageously good time to be had playing this kind of game since the last Vampires Versus Werewolves game. The two most amazing things about this ever-evolving ruleset are the sheer quantity of combinatorial interactions between its rules, and the fact that it manages to still be strategic, challenging, well-balanced, and fully paranoia-inducing despite having two asymmetrical evil factions, powers for everybody, and player inventories.

Chaos and betrayals on every turn! Long-reaching plots stack up against desperate improvisation! Bluffs are called, gambits revealed, misdirection and double misdirection decides the outcome right up to the end! Whether you're the ultimate grandmaster or a credulous yokel, there's room for everybody in this, the best game of its kind. So sign up now!

Serephine
03-13-2012, 01:43 AM
Hey, Mafia fans! Do you like total pandemonium? Do you want to show off for and/or get killed by a bunch of notorious ne'er-do-wells? Talking Time's onetime sister community, Brontoforumus, is accepting signups for Vampires Versus Werewolves IX (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?board=33.0), which is certain to be the most outrageously good time to be had playing this kind of game since the last Vampires Versus Werewolves game. The two most amazing things about this ever-evolving ruleset are the sheer quantity of combinatorial interactions between its rules, and the fact that it manages to still be strategic, challenging, well-balanced, and fully paranoia-inducing despite having two asymmetrical evil factions, powers for everybody, and player inventories.

Chaos and betrayals on every turn! Long-reaching plots stack up against desperate improvisation! Bluffs are called, gambits revealed, misdirection and double misdirection decides the outcome right up to the end! Whether you're the ultimate grandmaster or a credulous yokel, there's room for everybody in this, the best game of its kind. So sign up now!

This is either gonna be the best idea or the worst idea.

Bongo Bill
03-13-2012, 01:51 AM
This is either gonna be the best idea or the worst idea.

The best, of course. Last call!

McClain
03-20-2012, 02:17 PM
I had an idea in the M18 lounge I wanted to toss out:

Random idea: Murder Mystery Dinner Theatre Mafia. Basically, there is no lounge with privileged information. There are "actors" in the game and a live "audience" that posts in the thread and cheers and guesses, but has no direct influence on the game. Bonus points if someone can figure out a way to have "members of the audience" participate in places in the game.

Michelle
03-20-2012, 02:21 PM
Similarly -- and I don't know if it would even be possible -- but I keep thinking it would be cool to have a "Hunger Games"-style Mafia game that somehow incorporates sponsors from the audience. But I'm way too lazy to run a game or even write up a pitch, so... :P

Egarwaen
03-20-2012, 03:18 PM
That sounds interesting, McClain. Would dead players be allowed to take their seats in the audience, or would they be barred from posting upon death?

Karzac
03-20-2012, 03:45 PM
I like that idea, McClain, and would play if you can figure out how to make it work.

Raven
03-20-2012, 06:35 PM
Random idea: Murder Mystery Dinner Theatre Mafia. Basically, there is no lounge with privileged information. There are "actors" in the game and a live "audience" that posts in the thread and cheers and guesses, but has no direct influence on the game. Bonus points if someone can figure out a way to have "members of the audience" participate in places in the game.

Does this still follow the standard Mafia rules? If so, I think it won't work; it's like giving the Town a set of completely trustworthy Townies. Then most of the game will be spent following their advices/suggestions, which is boring.

If it's really more like Murder Mystery: The Forum Game (with altered winning condition, detailed character bio & background story, and all that silly role-playing stuffs), then count me in as being extremely intrigued. The Audience can actively participate by holding certain things that may help the Actors solving the mystery; be it items, testimony, or piece of information about certain character (all those can either be real clues or red herring). Those things should also be classified as either 'public' (can be shared in the main thread) or 'private' (can only be shared in private correspondence such as night chat).

It would require a lot of heavy work to plan the plot & mechanic, but I'll be totally down in playing/co-planning that sort of game.

Brickroad
03-20-2012, 07:26 PM
poetfox and I are both going to pitch ponies again, so feel free to ignore us.

Karzac
03-20-2012, 07:34 PM
Does this still follow the standard Mafia rules? If so, I think it won't work; it's like giving the Town a set of completely trustworthy Townies. Then most of the game will be spent following their advices/suggestions, which is boring.

If it's really more like Murder Mystery: The Forum Game (with altered winning condition, detailed character bio & background story, and all that silly role-playing stuffs), then count me in as being extremely intrigued. The Audience can actively participate by holding certain things that may help the Actors solving the mystery; be it items, testimony, or piece of information about certain character (all those can either be real clues or red herring). Those things should also be classified as either 'public' (can be shared in the main thread) or 'private' (can only be shared in private correspondence such as night chat).

It would require a lot of heavy work to plan the plot & mechanic, but I'll be totally down in playing/co-planning that sort of game.

Oooh, ooh, oooh, if we really want to make it Murder Mystery: The Forum Game, what if the actors are the suspects and the audience are the detectives? Each of the actors has a set list of character traits, people they like, don't like and a story for "Where They Were on the Nigh of X" One of them is lying and is the murderer. The audience (through some mechanic that I'm not sure of) would get to ask the actors questions and then use deductive reasoning to figure out who the murderer is. First person to guess correctly wins.

That would of course be a completely different game than Mafia, but it would still be pretty fun.

Yimothy
03-20-2012, 07:42 PM
My pitch for M19:

Assassination Mafia:

You are a shadowy group of killers for hire. Lately, your people have been turning up dead more often than their targets. Something is wrong. This morning one of your colleagues stumbled into HQ. "Traitors", he croaked, falling to the floor. "It was..."

Unfortunately he trailed off and died before he could tell you what he knew. Still, the message was clear: conspirators within the group are responsible for the recent attrition. There's only one thing to do: start killing each other, and hope for the best.

The game is played entirely within the main thread, with each phase continuing into the next. At the start of each phase, every player will receive via PM a dossier on their target (a random other player) detailing their habits and what they're likely to be doing during the coming phase. At any time, players may assassinate their target by publicly declaring that they are doing so. The GM will confirm the kill and reveal whether or not the deceased player was a conspirator when the chance arises, but in the meantime if someone has declared that they are killing you then you should consider yourself dead and stop posting. Anyone who declares that they are killing someone that they are not actually empowered to kill will be disqualified (i.e. they lose the game even if their team wins), and their victim returned to the game. At the end of each phase, the dossiers become outdated and useless, and new dossiers are issued to each player at random.

The Conspirators will know who each other are, but will no longer be able to conspire now that their scheme is exposed (i.e. they may only communicate via the main thread, same as everyone else).

The Assassins win when the conspirators are all dead.

The Conspirators win when their number is more than half of the total remaining players.

So yeah. It's pretty simple, but a bit different to usual. I'm not sure if it'll work or not, but I think it'll be fun and interesting. I considered putting in power roles, maybe having them move from player to player or something (or maybe have an inspector whose power is to be able to assemble their own dossier and so choose their next target), but I thought it'd be better to keep it simple. The honour system for the kills is there because I live in a different time zone and wouldn't be able to regulate the game during the times when most people are posting. As long as everyone's honest, it shouldn't be a problem. And if they aren't, then they'll be disqualified. I haven't decided on phase length yet. Probably 24 or 48 hours.

If it does run, I could maybe use a co-GM, for better flavour if nothing else, but I don't think I absolutely need one.

poetfox
03-20-2012, 08:07 PM
poetfox and I are both going to pitch ponies again, so feel free to ignore us.

Well not yet! Or, uh, are we? I dunno. Maybe we are.

And I love this Murder Mystery idea. I would love to be an actor. Although since we just had a very not-mafia game, maybe that's something to do after a more standard Mafia for the next round?

Torgo
03-20-2012, 10:01 PM
Similarly -- and I don't know if it would even be possible -- but I keep thinking it would be cool to have a "Hunger Games"-style Mafia game that somehow incorporates sponsors from the audience. But I'm way too lazy to run a game or even write up a pitch, so... :P
This sounds brilliant and I would play it in an instant. I've been noodling and brainstorming a Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia, but I might give this a bit of thought as well.

Egarwaen
03-20-2012, 10:44 PM
poetfox and I are both going to pitch ponies again, so feel free to ignore us.

I'd like something in a more traditional vein next, so I'd totally be up for more pony Mafia times.

Or, Destil, if you're still shopping it, I'd love to give Thing II a shot?

Brickroad
03-20-2012, 10:53 PM
I don't actually expect ponies to win anytime soon, but I want to at least get the rules out there so people can refine them for a few cycles from now. I'd also rather play than run it, so there's that. poet's version is better than mine, and it might be possible to combine them somehow. Really, ponies was just a super compelling ruleset and I am dying to take another crack at it. think everyone will do better at it the second time around.

It's not really "traditional" though!

I'm out on The Thing II, just not my thing. (For the record, I wouldn't play The Organization either. That game is psychotic and I don't think I could handle the stress.)

I can't envision how Murder Mystery Mafia would work. I mean it sounds like a kickass idea, but it will fall flat on the execution. Good starting place for a brainstorm though.

McClain
03-20-2012, 11:02 PM
Murder Mystery Mafia was just a random idea I had while snarking in the lounge and I thought "man it would be fun to be able to troll the games in public." I have no rule set in mind, though there's been some pretty good ideas flying around already. Maybe it'll spark something.

That said, I would also prefer a more traditional game next because I want to play again! :D

(Or Thing II)

EDIT:

Does this still follow the standard Mafia rules? If so, I think it won't work; it's like giving the Town a set of completely trustworthy Townies. Then most of the game will be spent following their advices/suggestions, which is boring.

Trustworthy, maybe, but still in the dark. Think about how many games that have had a confirmed townie who was led by the nose by the mafia into a loss. Now imagine having a half-dozen or so people who aren't even playing the game (and might be rooting for the mafia to win!) shouting advice and snark in the thread.


That sounds interesting, McClain. Would dead players be allowed to take their seats in the audience, or would they be barred from posting upon death?

This would of course depend entirely on what form the game ended up taking, but my first instinct is that anyone with inside information on the game wouldn't be allowed to post, so dead players would just be dead (maybe still have a champagne room for them and any anyone who still wanted to watch from above).

My very first idea was based on a Murder Mystery Train and dead players would be thrown off.

Destil
03-20-2012, 11:42 PM
Hey, you know what people are all about right now? Nostalgia for Paul le Fou's great works, seeing as how he recently passed.

How about a round of:

[the late] Paul le Fou's
Comb Stranger's
John Carpetner's
The Thing
II

[link] (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=1009048&postcount=5125)

Solitayre
03-21-2012, 12:19 AM
Might pull out my Lords and Samurai flavored game. I think it had an interesting twist.

Not proposing this for the next game (yet), but wondering what people think.

Your castle has been invaded by ninja. Are you a bad enough dude to save the castle?

Roles

Town roles

Samurai: All townies are Samurai. They are all in line for the throne. Their position in line is randomly decided at the start of the game. The Samurai first in line for the throne becomes the Heir and may communicate with the Lord at night. One of the Samurai is The Traitor.

The Lord: May investigate one player per night to learn their current place in line. Dies if he investigates a Ninja. May communicate with the Heir at night.

The Heir: The Heir is the first samurai in line to be the Lord. He may communicate with his lord at night. If the Lord dies, the Heir becomes the new Lord, and the player in line behind him becomes the new Heir.



Mafia Roles

The Traitor: The Traitor is identical to a Samurai, and is in line for the throne. However, he is aligned with the Mafia faction, and may communicate with them at night, and select a target to kill as they do. The Traitor's place in line is randomly determined. The Traitor reads innocent if scanned or lynched.

Ninja: The Ninja are this game's mafia. They may communicate at night and decide who to kill. They may also choose, as a group, to investigate a player and learn their place in line each night. Ninja are not in line for the throne.

Brickroad
03-21-2012, 12:21 AM
Now THAT sounds like a simple, fun twist on standard Mafia. I'd vote for that twice.

McClain
03-21-2012, 12:30 AM
It sounds interesting, but the problem I can see is the way investigations work. Normally an investigator lays low until they get a positive scan, but in this game it will kill you. So when do you go public? And how then does the town test this? It might not be a flaw so much as I can't wrap my head around it at 3 a.m., but I'm not sure how the investigations will help the town. Though I do like the Lord-Heir chain and the way they can talk to each other.

Solitayre
03-21-2012, 12:35 AM
That is why the Lord has a night communication with another player. Basically in this game, the role of Investigator, and his findings, can be passed from one player to another, with the catch being that somewhere in line is a player who can't be trusted.

Brickroad
03-21-2012, 12:39 AM
It also neatly solves the problem of the town losing an important power role early on and then having basically no chance.

McClain
03-21-2012, 12:45 AM
Yeah, right after I posted that I was thinking about the Lord-Heir night chat. Though sucks to be the town if the Lord scans a Ninja and the Heir gets nightkilled in the same night!

Question: if the Lord is killed because he hit a Ninja, does he just die, or does the Heir (or entire town) get told it was because he was Ninja-scan killed? Or would it be obvious to the Heir in most (I guess all) cases?

The more I think about it the more I want to play this game. The power town chain means there's a reason for every townie to stay on their toes because they could get tapped next.

Traitor may be a bit unbalanced if he gets handed the chain late in the game.

Solitayre
03-21-2012, 12:48 AM
I'd probably rule that you wouldn't be able to tell how or why a player was killed, but if two players die on one night, that's pretty telling.

The town's investigation power can never disappear, but each time it changes hands carries the risk of it falling under the mafia's influence. It's up to the Lords/Heirs to decide if they trust who they're talking to, and how much to tell them.

Raven
03-21-2012, 03:01 AM
Oooh, ooh, oooh, if we really want to make it Murder Mystery: The Forum Game, what if the actors are the suspects and the audience are the detectives? Each of the actors has a set list of character traits, people they like, don't like and a story for "Where They Were on the Nigh of X" One of them is lying and is the murderer. The audience (through some mechanic that I'm not sure of) would get to ask the actors questions and then use deductive reasoning to figure out who the murderer is. First person to guess correctly wins.

That would of course be a completely different game than Mafia, but it would still be pretty fun.

That sounds good.

The mechanic's gonna be tricky, but I think it's doable. Here's my basic idea on the game's general flow:

~Preparation

Each suspects is randomly assigned a character, with traits, background story, and whatnot. They also (potentially) have secrets/private information that can only be shared in certain circumstances. While they have to follow the script regarding their basic motivations/connections to certain other characters, they can improvise most of their actions; especially when airing suspicion on other characters & helping (or misleading) the detectives' deductions.

The audience /detectives can be themselves...or make up their own character, if they want.

A murder already happened at the start of game.

~Day Phase

This is when everybody posts in the main thread; the detectives get to know the suspects, the suspects fling accusations at each other....while doing lots & lots of role-playing (this entire game practically depends on the player's willingness to be 'in character' 100% of the time). Clues & private information can't be presented here, at least until the final day.

~Night Phase

Each detective get to either a) investigate a place from a list of locations, or b) hold a private interrogation (night chat) with one selected suspect. Those actions may yield a CLUE. They may also confer between themselves and share what they've got. Each suspect get a description of their own activity each night. Also, an EVENT will happen every night and announced on the beginning of the next day.

~Revelation Phase/Endgame

I'm a bit stumped on this part, but here's the idea: on the last day of the game, each investigator may present their case and make a formal accusation. The one that got it right wins, naturally. The murderer wins if no one's got it right. Most innocent suspects also win if the case's solved, but some of them may have a personal agenda...

......well, all that requires insane amount of scenario-writing, for sure. If there's really enough interest in this, I'll take a crack at developing it and perhaps pitch it for M20 or M21. I used to read a lot of obscure murder mystery stories (and write crappy ones), so I think I can recycle and re-work some story into this game....maybe wrap it in Clue/Ace Attorney-like flavor. The priority's for now is to construct an accessible and engaging mechanic, though.

***

Sol's pitch seems solid enough to be submitted as it is! I'd also love to play a Ponymafia sequel with slightly refined mechanic from the last game.

(also, I think someone once pitch a Townie vs. Mafia vs. Thing game? I'd vote for that in a heartbeat)

ais523
03-21-2012, 03:20 AM
The optimal strategy in the Lords/Samurai setup is, I think, as the Lord, simply to lampshade who you're investigating, and if you turn up dead, people will be looking for that. So it wouldn't matter much even if the Heir were nightkilled.

poetfox
03-21-2012, 03:41 AM
I don't actually expect ponies to win anytime soon, but I want to at least get the rules out there so people can refine them for a few cycles from now. I'd also rather play than run it, so there's that. poet's version is better than mine, and it might be possible to combine them somehow. Really, ponies was just a super compelling ruleset and I am dying to take another crack at it. think everyone will do better at it the second time around.

It's not really "traditional" though!

Oh, okay then. So should I just post what I have at the moment knowing it probably won't win? I can do that tonight if you want. Probably flavor and all, so people understand what's going on in this version, unless that should be a surprise.

Brickroad
03-21-2012, 07:51 AM
I'm just going to put up a cleaner version of what I showed you the other day. I don't think there's any reconciling the flavor (though yours is better), but we could conceivable hobble together the two rulesets into something magical. We had lots of the same roles anyway. (We must have discussed it in the champagne room, I guess? I don't remember.)

I figure it will be at least M21 before ponies happen again. The Thing 2 is way overdue, I'm going to champion Sol's samurai game like a crazed motherfucker, and I bet this Murder Mystery thing evolves into something interesting and playable. So that's lots of time to refine the rules either in this thread or behind the scenes somewhere. We could keep it a SUPER SECRET COLLABORATION, but I think enough dudes had good ideas coming out of the first ponies game that it could be more of a community effort.

Dizzy
03-21-2012, 08:42 AM
After watching the Prometheus trailer 10, 20, 30 -- 50 fucking times and then watching Aliens all over again... I want Thing 2.

McClain
03-21-2012, 08:47 AM
FYI, I'm in no way going to be able to run Murder Mystery Mafia, I was just throwing some ideas around.

Mogri
03-21-2012, 09:20 AM
I am going to repitch

Arcana

Players will be assigned identities based on the Major Arcana (The Emperor, The Chariot, etc.). Rules are as normal Mafia: 72/48 day/night cycles, player identities revealed on death, and so on. Changes from the original ruleset are in red.

Roles that will be in the game:
Town Voice: At will, this player may PM a message to the GM, who will post it in-thread twice per day, at roughly 10 AM/PM PST, as well as on day start and end. Players will know that the message came from a town player.
Town Sane Cop: Each night, this player may investigate another player (not him/herself) to learn that player's alignment.
Town Insane Cop: As the sane cop, except the results received are flipped (town appears guilty, mafia appears innocent). The two cops will not be informed whether they are sane or insane.
Town/Town Mason: These two players have nightchat.
Town/Mafia Mason: These two players have nightchat. One of them belongs to the Mafia team, unbeknownst to the other.
Mafia Voice: As the town voice, except players know that the message came from a Mafia player.

Roles that might be in the game:
Town Bulletproof: Once per game, if this player is targeted for a nightkill, the nightkill fails. This is a passive ability. This player is notified of the failed nightkill, but other players are not.
Town Angel: Each night, this player may choose another player (not him/herself) to make that player immune to nightkills. That player is not notified of the action, but if the nightkill is blocked, the Angel is notified.
Town Voice Backup: This player has no abilities, but if the Town Voice dies, this player becomes the Town Voice.
Town Triplevoter: Once per game during the day, this player may use his power to triple the weight of his/her vote. Other players are not notified of this action.
Town One-Shot Vigilante: Once per game during the night, this player may use his power to kill another player.
Mafia Muffler: Once per game during the night, this player may use his power to disguise both "voice" roles: the GM will not announce which player gave which message for the next day.
Mafia Recruiter: Once per game during the night, this player may use his power to convert a town player to the Mafia team. The converted player loses any powers he/she had. The Mafia may not nightkill on a night when this power is used.
Mafia Voice Backup: As the town voice backup.
Mafia Mortician: Each night, this player may choose another player (not him/herself). If the chosen player dies during the next day, his/her identity will not be revealed.


A list of roles included in the game will be announced at the start of the game.


The roles are designed around creating a town team of players that are individually weak, but collectively very strong. Meanwhile, the Mafia faction is designed around creating uncertainty for the town.

Red Hedgehog
03-21-2012, 09:50 AM
I'll pitch The Resistance again, though given it is a smaller (in number of players) and slightly different type of game I may just see if there is enough interest to get it to run alongside mafia. Anyway...

The Resistance

The imperial government rules with an iron fist. They oppress the people and force them into a life of toil, drudgery, and war all for the benefit of the ruling elite. They are ruthless and efficient, but there are a few brave souls willing to stand up to their tyranny. The resistance plans to carry out five missions to weaken the government's power and inspire the masses to rise up and revolt. If they can succeed in at least three of them, they are sure that the oppressive regime will be toppled. But the imperial government didn't get where it is by being stupid. Its secret police force has planted deep spies within the resistance who will do everything they can to sabotage the missions and ensure the resistance is crushed utterly. Will the resistance succeed in their lofty goals or will the emperor and his cronies continue to live in opulence?

Rules:

Roles:

The roles are based on the number of players as follows:
Players Resistance Spies
5 3 2
6 4 2
7 4 3
8 5 3
9 6 3
10 6 4

All spies know the identity of the other spies at the beginning of the game. The resistance members will receive a PM saying:

You are a member of the resistance movement opposing the evil imperialist government!

The spies will receive a PM saying:

You are a spy. You are loyal to the grand imperial government and have infiltrated this dirty resistance.

The other spies you are working with are: Larry, Moe, and Curly

Winning the game:

The resistance wins the game if they succeed in 3 out of the 5 missions. The spies win the game if they sabotage 3 out of the 5 missions OR if there are five consecutive failed mission team votes (they have delayed the resistance long enough for imperial troops to converge on the resistance's ever-moving hideout).

Discussion:

All gameplay discussion takes place in the forum thread or in PMs to me. No player may talk about the game to any other player or in any other public place. There is no day / night phase distinction - players may have discussion in the thread at any time.

Rules questions may be posted in the thread or PMed to me. If PMed to me, they will be answered publicly in the thread (but the identity of the asker will not be made known).

Team Leader:

The players will be ordered 1-10 (randomly determined at the beginning of the game). This list indicates who is the first team leader and who will be leader next. The list is circular so after player 10 is leader, player 1 will be leader again. Be aware that some plot cards (see below) may cause the order to jump.

Missions:

There are five total missions.

Assign Plot Cards

At the beginning of each mission, the current team leader receives three plot cards (see below) and gives them to any player they want without restriction, meaning they may give all three to one player or split them up among other players. The team leader cannot keep one of these three plot cards nor give away a plot card they were previously given by another team leader. The team leader has 24 hours from the time they are PMed with the plot cards to assign them. If they do not, all three cards are assigned to the player before them on the team leader list. Once 24 hours have passed, the game moves to the assign mission teams phase. Assignments should be in bold as follows:

I give Open Up to Larry, No Confidence to Moe, and In the spotlight to Curly

Assign Mission Teams

The primary role of the team leader is to assign mission teams. After plot cards are assigned, the team leader then has 24 hours to propose a team to go on the mission. The number of members on the team is based on the current day (see chart below). The team leader may put themselves on the team. The team leader may make one, and only one official proposal. If a team leader fails to make a proposal in time, they will be considered to have a proposed a team consisting of the players consecutively before them on the team leader list. After 24 hours, the game moves to the vote for proposal phase. Proposals should be made in bold as follows:

I propose a team of myself, Larry, and Shemp

The number of players that must be assigned to each mission is as follows:
Players 5 6 7 8 9 10
Mission 1 2 2 2 3 3 3
Mission 2 2 3 3 4 4 4
Mission 3 3 3 3 4 4 4
Mission 4 3 4 4* 5* 5* 5*
Mission 5 3 4 4 5 5 5

Voting

The players then have 24 hours to vote on whether they approve of the mission team or not. These votes are sent privately, via PM to me. If a player does not vote in time, they are considered to have cast a "Yay" vote. After 24 hours, the vote tally will be revealed publicly though not who gave what vote (e.g., Vote tally was 7 for, 3 against). If a majority of the players (6 or more in a 10 person game) vote for the mission team, that team will proceed to mission execution. Otherwise, the vote is a failure and leadership passes to the next player on the team leader list. The assign mission teams phase then begins again with the next team leader (no new plot cards are given out).

Mission Execution

Once a mission team has been successfully voted on, each player on the mission team then has 24 hours to PM me with whether they are supporting or sabotaging the mission. Rebels may only choose to support the mission. Spies may choose to support or sabotage the mission. If a player does not submit their choice on time, all rebels will be assumed to support a mission and all spies will be assumed to sabotage a mission. A mission is a success if everyone supports it. A mission is a failure if at least one player sabotages it - except for day four if there are 7 or more player playing when two players must sabotage the mission for it to fail. After 24 hours, the total support and sabotage is revealed (e.g. 3 supports, 1 sabotage). Leadership passes to the next player on the team leader list and the assign plot cards phase begins.

Timing

Each phase (Assign Plot Cards, Assign Mission Teams, Voting, and Mission Execution) lasts exactly 24 hours. Each player may, once per game, request a 24 hour extension of a phase. These extensions are made public.

Plot Cards

There are 15 total plot cards and they are randomly chosen. Once a plot card has been chosen, it is not shuffled back in. Some cards are used immediately, some are played by announcing their use in the thread, and some are played by PMing me (though the fact that you used them will be publicly known). Once played they are gone. The distribution of the plot cards is as follows:

1 Take Responsibility
Plays by: Immediately takes effect
Effects: Choose a plot card held by a player. Take that card from them.

1 Establish Confidence
Plays by: Immediately takes effect
Effects: You find out the identity of the leader in a PM that will read either "Moe is a spy" or "Moe is loyal resistance" where Moe is the name of the leader.

1 In the Spotlight
Plays by: PMing me during the voting phase
Effects: Choose a player on the current mission team being voted for. If that vote succeeds, the player's mission support for that mission is publicly known. If the vote does not succeed, it is not announced that you attempted to play this card and you still have it to use on future votes.

1 Open Up
Plays by: Immediately takes effect
Effects: Publicly choose a player. At the beginning of the voting phase, that player finds out your identity in a PM that will read either "Moe is a spy" or "Moe is loyal resistance" where Moe is your name.

2 Keeping a close eye on you
Plays by: PMing me during the mission execution phase
Effects: Choose a player on the current mission. You find out whether they supported or sabotaged it. If two players both choose to investigate the same player during the same mission execution I will randomly choose one of them to have actually played their card. You find this out in a PM that will read either "Moe supported the mission" or "Moe sabotaged the mission" where Moe is the name of the player chosen.

2 Strong Leader
Plays by: Announcing use in thread during the assign plot cards or assign mission teams phase
Effects: You become the new team leader and the phase restarts

2 Overheard conversation
Plays by: Immediately takes effect
Effects: Publicly choose a player either before or after you on the team leader list. At the beginning of the voting phase, you find out that player's identity in a PM that will read either "Moe is a spy" or "Moe is loyal resistance" where Moe is the name of the player chosen.

2 Opinion Maker
Plays by: Immediately takes effect
Effects: From now on, all your votes (but not your mission support) must be publicly announced in the thread during the voting phase. Your first post in the thread during the voting phase must include your vote.

3 No Confidence
Plays by: PMing me during Voting Phase
Effects: If the vote passes, instead it is considered to have failed. If the vote does not pass, it is not announced that you attempted to play this card and you still have it to use on future votes. If multiple players attempt to use No Confidence in one night, I will randomly determine which player actually played theirs.

Brickroad
03-21-2012, 10:02 AM
Mafia XX-something
Ponies 2: Mafia is Witchcraft
the forum game of the internet fan parody of the popular children's TV show

http://scibbe.com/wp-content/2012/03/miw_dis.jpg

Winning is easy. Chaos is hard.

Devastating Ponyville and dispensing all that "magic of friendship" schlock proved to be almost laughably easy. The Avatars of Discord ravaged the idyllic little burg and laid waste to everything good and pure within its population. And you, Discord, embodiment of chaos and disharmony, reveled in every moment of it.

But it turned out to be a hollow victory. None of your avatars -- the spirits of Evil, Darkness, Mutiny, Silence, Lies and Madness -- had the same respect for pure, unbridled chaos as you. Left to their own devices, they began pursuing their own agendas in their new pony bodies. Each of these spirits required some measure of... regularity... in order to function to its utmost. And so, the beautiful new chaotic Ponyville you imagined never actually materialized. What you got instead was nothing more than a strange bizarro Ponyville.

You must admit, it was amusing for a while. The brief Robot Insurrection provided some entertainment, but in the years since the soulless automotons were put down things have settled back into droll routine. (You briefly considered looking into the nature and origin of the robot uprisings, but decided that letting things fester would provide a more pleasant surprise at some point down the road.)

What's worse, the Elements of Harmony seem to have returned. Like robust weeds, or perhaps very colorful cockroaches, the six ponies who you thought had been brutally slain have somehow re-appeared as though your avatars had never dealt with them in the first place. Perhaps the avatars weren't as thorough as they should have been? Or perhaps the Elements of Harmony simply do not stay at rest for long? Whatever the case, these six ponies have become corrupted just like everything else, twisted into parodies of their former selves. Nonetheless, they pose a potential threat to your rule.

But then, ruling everything has proven to be exceptionally boring. How did those insufferable sisters ever put up with it all? Still, it's your world now. It's time to rally your avatars to protect it, disappointing though it may be. There's just one problem: they've been in their pony forms for so long they no longer recognize each other. Their pony identities have fused with their discordian nature. Heck, you've noticed they have even come to identify with the other townsfolk of Ponyville.

Maybe it's time to really show them who's boss. Win or lose, the fireworks ought to be quite a sight.

---

72-hour days, 48-hour nights, no posting outside the thread, yadda yadda, you bronies know the drill.

---

Town Roles - The Avatars of Discord

http://scibbe.com/wp-content/2012/03/miw_evil.jpg
The Avatar of Evil
This avatar retains its ability to sense the true nature of ponies. Once per night, it may select one pony and learn that pony's identity.

http://scibbe.com/wp-content/2012/03/miw_madness.jpg
The Avatar of Madness
This avatar specializes in driving ponies insane by creeping inside their heads at night. Once per night, it may select two ponies and have an anonymous nightchat with them. These ponies do not learn it was Madness who contacted them.

http://scibbe.com/wp-content/2012/03/miw_mutiny.jpg
The Avatar of Mutiny
Perhaps upset that its ability was so easily neutered during the takeover, Mutiny has developed a strong distaste for ponies and avatars alike. Once per game, Mutiny may decide to abandon Ponyville entirely. Any votes against Mutiny are immediately discarded. Mutiny remains out of play that night, but returns the following morning. While Mutiny is gone, it counts as dead for purposes of win/loss conditions.

http://scibbe.com/wp-content/2012/03/miw_lies.jpg
The Avatar of Lies
Weaving untruths is this avatar's specialty, which means it is quite adept at spotting the untruths of others. Once per night, Lies may select one statement from any previous day and learn whether or not that statement was true.

http://scibbe.com/wp-content/2012/03/miw_silence.jpg
The Avatar of Silence
This avatar retains its ability to cause silence. Once per night, Silence selects one pony on which to ply its trade. That pony may not use any abilities. If she is participating in a nightchat, she is immediately ejected from it.

http://scibbe.com/wp-content/2012/03/miw_darkness.jpg
The Avatar of Darkness
This avatar is capable of creating impenetrable clouds of darkness. Once per night, Darkness may select one pony to protect with a shroud of blackness. All abilities targeting that pony will fail, including nightkills. If she is participating in a nightchat, she is immediately ejected from it. When Darkness's ability triggers, it is unable to use the power again until the third night after it was used.

The avatars have lost their way, and no longer recognize each other for what they are. However, they are still connected through the vestigial bonds of chaos. If, at any time, an avatar uses its ability on another avatar, they immediately learn each other's identities.

The town wins the game once all six of the Elements of Harmony have been eliminated.

---

Mafia Roles - The Elements of Harmony(?)

http://scibbe.com/wp-content/2012/03/miw_aj.jpg
Applejack
"I oughta burn your whole village, you little muckraker."
Applejack is both a veteran of the Robot Insurrection and unmatched in skill with her lasso. Once per night, she may select one pony to tie up and interrogate. She learns that pony's identity the following morning.

http://scibbe.com/wp-content/2012/03/miw_fs.jpg
Fluttershy
"Very good! The conditioning worked."
Fluttershy is the leader of the Cult of Smooze. Once per game, she may harken the coming of Lord Smooze by summoning an eclipse, ending the day 24 hours early. She may decide to do this at night (in which case the following day is only 48 hours long), or at any point during the first 48 hours of a day (in which case the day will end at the 48 hour mark).

http://scibbe.com/wp-content/2012/03/miw_rd.jpg
Rainbow Dash
"And rain-bow! Dash rainbow dash rain dash rainbow rain dash dash. Follow me!"
Dash is, quite frankly, an idiot. Once per night, she may say something so mind-numbingly inane that one pony is stunned speechless the entire following day.

http://scibbe.com/wp-content/2012/03/miw_pp.jpg
Pinkie Pie
"Watch as the matter turns to batter / Open the portal, jump in"
Pinkie has a knack for gypsy magic. During the night, she can select one pony (including herself) to shove through a portal. If that pony accumulates a majority of votes against, the portal immediately opens and she is sucked through. All votes against her are discarded. She returns to play that night. During the brief time the pony is portal'd, she counts as being dead for purposes of win/loss conditions. Pinkie may select a target each night, but the portal may only open once per agme.

http://scibbe.com/wp-content/2012/03/miw_rar.jpg
Rarity
"It's a good thing I brought my magical Fluttershy contact lenses."
Rarity has a whole collection of magical contact lenses. Once per night, she may select any pony (including herself). If that pony is scanned or killed, she will appear as the identity Rarity selected for her rather than her true identity.

http://scibbe.com/wp-content/2012/03/miw_ts.jpg
Twilight Sparkle
"Everyone is trapped with me!"
Twilight spends most of her time writing slash fanfiction about her friends. Once per night she may select two ponies to kidnap and force into an anonymous nightchat. The targets do not learn it was Twilight who contacted them.

The Elements of Harmony win either by matching the town's numbers, or by eliminating all of the Avatars of Discord. To this end, they may converse in secret each night.

---

The Secret Boss

http://scibbe.com/wp-content/2012/03/miw_sb.jpg
Sweetie Belle
"I have... so much... strength inside of me you don't even KNOW what I could do!"
The Robot Insurrection may be lost, but not before the soulless metal beings planted sleeper agents throughout Ponyville. The most advanced of these is Sweetie Belle, a secret weapon designed to spark the Second Insurrection and put an end to all ponies and avatars alike.

If Sweetie Belle is still alive when the game ends, robots storm through Ponyville vaporizing everything they touch. In this case, she wins and all ponies and avatars lose.

---

tl;dr: It's poetfox's original ponies game, but with the factions flipped, "useless" town roles re-cast, expanded nightchats, that cool thing where town powers can find each other, un-neuter-able Mutiny, and a secret boss. (Secret bosses make everything better.)

Adam
03-21-2012, 10:25 AM
Bravo.

Mogri
03-21-2012, 10:33 AM
ponies

This actually sounds pretty great. Is this being pitched for 19?

Egarwaen
03-21-2012, 10:40 AM
tl;dr: It's poetfox's original ponies game, but with the factions flipped, "useless" town roles re-cast, expanded nightchats, that cool thing where town powers can find each other, un-neuter-able Mutiny, and a secret boss. (Secret bosses make everything better.)

Yeah, this looks pretty awesome. I think the town powers are quite solid - I can see ways I'd use any of them usefully. I think the Mafia powers could still use some work. In particular:

Fluttershy - The same thing happens whether she uses her power at night or in the first 48 hours of the day. Simplify its description.

Rainbow Dash - I just don't like silencing powers. What about changing this so that the pony's vote doesn't count? The pony's not aware of their lost potency.

Pinkie Pie - Situational but potentially very potent. Smells like the new Mutiny. I approve!

I adore the concept of Sweetie Bell. I also rather like Secret Bosses. Maybe we should pressure Solitayre into adding a Secret Boss to Samurai Mafia? Something like:

The Demon - You don't care about the throne. In fact, you don't really care about anything except darkness. You aren't in line to the throne and don't count as a Ninja or Samurai for the purposes of win conditions. If you're still alive at the end of the game, you'll be able to shed your disguise and usher in a future where your evil is law!

Not sure what should happen when the Lord scans him, though.

spineshark
03-21-2012, 10:44 AM
My game has a secret boss. General pitch is probably 75-80% there. I'll see if I can get something up for critique today.

Brickroad
03-21-2012, 10:54 AM
You guys should save your pony-comments until poetfox shares her version (if it's done). And no, I don't intend to pitch anything for M19, unless someone else steps forward to run it.

The Demon Oni - You don't care about the throne. In fact, you don't really care about anything except darkness. You aren't in line to the throne and don't count as a Ninja or Samurai for the purposes of win conditions. If you're still alive at the end of the game, you'll be able to shed your disguise and usher in a future where your evil is law!

Oh my goodness, yes. (Slight flavor alteration. Hope you don't mind.) We'd have to get the Lord scan correct, though, since the entire game is balanced around it.