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Brickroad
04-18-2010, 11:35 PM
brick, I do in fact want to increase the paranoia. I gave you guys no information about the setup to increase paranoia while keeping up the fun things (fr me at least) in the game.

Yeah but the "fun things for you" are LOTSA LOTSA ROLES.

I'm having way more fun with M3 than I did with M1 or M2E, and the only thing I can tell that's changed is the strategy required due to the loss of all the power players.

Are you seeing how close I am to getting lynched? That's FUCKING SWEET.

(It'll be less fucking sweet once I actually get lynched, but whatevs.)

Destil
04-18-2010, 11:37 PM
No, I think we decided we had no idea how to gauge the level of paranoia we'd get in your game since you wouldn't tell us anything about it.

This was actually a big part of my random roles idea. I went back and forth between giving information on what could happen with the random roles or not because I was hoping not knowing what could be in the game would make things interesting. That said, were I to repitch the idea I'd do a detailed list of what was possible and just let the random number generator enforce the paranoia.

Destil
04-19-2010, 12:07 AM
Yeah, when we do vote on game 4, I think this is the way to go. Not knowing what the roles even might be before the game starts is just inviting everyone to make up random crap or find it on that Mafia wiki and then nobody playing even knows what the rules are, which strikes me as a bad way to play a game. And if you're going to say what the rules might be, you might as well outline them during the GM voting process so people know what they're voting for.

Actually, game 4 should be The Thing, and Eddie's day two strategy from game 3 is going to win it. Mark my words.

Alpha Werewolf
04-19-2010, 12:35 AM
So the deal is that none of you trust me?

You seem to dislike complex role-a-thons, and that's fine - my game isn't one of them. Having no info about the setups opens so many possibilities for playing. A guy claimed Cop? What if there ISN'T one?

Brickroad
04-19-2010, 12:43 AM
I'd actually like to try a role-heavy game where role powers are limited.

Ex: instead of having an inspector with unlimited inspections, some percentage of civvies are given two inspections each.

Alpha Werewolf
04-19-2010, 12:43 AM
It opens so many possibilities... for people claiming nonsense roles based on reading that Mafia wiki. When not only the actual roles but even the potential ones aren't known, what's to stop anyone from claiming anything? If cornered, I could claim literally any made-up thing I wanted. I'll tell you that a game where there could be any roles under the sun is one that I'd play as if nobody had any roles. I'd assume people were lying about all the crazy nonsense they came up with and lynch them anyway. Why wouldn't I?

If you claim a random nonsense role, you'll be lynched. Power roles are not the end-be-all of mafia strategy, and claiming power shouldn't get you an automatic pass. That's why I said, at the very start of M2W, that we shouldn't rely on them.

Alpha Werewolf
04-19-2010, 12:49 AM
M2W is such a bad example for that argument, though. They were the be-all, end-all strategy, claiming power did give me an automatic pass, we did rely on the power roles, and sure enough, they carried us right through to victory.

All that, because 1. The town had all the power roles and 2. The game's setup was known. By making it unknown and spreading the power, the game becomes fair, and power becomes much less sure.

spineshark
04-19-2010, 01:01 AM
I'd actually like to try a role-heavy game where role powers are limited.

Ex: instead of having an inspector with unlimited inspections, some percentage of civvies are given two inspections each.
One of my ideas for my game was to give the citizens Inspector, Inspector, Oracle and not tell anyone, with the assumption that once one claimed, the other would counterclaim, causing the citizens to lynch whichever one they thought was more likely to be lying...only to have them be an Inspector, and lead them to lynch the other the next day...but if it happened too late, then it would create way too big of a bloc.

Bongo Bill
04-19-2010, 01:06 AM
Speaking of unknown, to whom do I talk about running a game? I can do one of two.

Number one: Sudden Death Mafia. At the start of the game, the townies outnumber the mafia by just one man, so that if the innocents lynch a single bad guy, they lose. There will either be no or very few special roles. The rules of engagement will accommodate the necessarily more deliberate pace of the game. Recommended for a small number of dedicated players.

Number two: Quadruple Secret Mafia. The rules I will post at the beginning of the game will contain outright lies. Some of the players will be made privy to the truth underlying some of the lies. The true rules can be discovered over the course of play. In order to win, the players will have to figure out exactly what kind of madhouse they're playing in.

Brickroad
04-19-2010, 01:07 AM
That would be hilarious and it's too bad we can't ever do it now ever.

Paul le Fou
04-19-2010, 03:13 AM
That would be hilarious and it's too bad we can't ever do it now ever.

It could still be done - he never said how many would be lies, what kind of lies, etc. He also didn't say much else about the contents of the game. I'm not even sure it has mafia in it. (Maybe I'm overthinking this)

I'd actually like to try a role-heavy game where role powers are limited.

Ex: instead of having an inspector with unlimited inspections, some percentage of civvies are given two inspections each.

So basically, my ruleset?

Also, this game is just difficult to play. Not because of the rules but because we have too many goddamn people. I'm finding it exhausting to just read and process everything, much less turn around and try to apply that to reasoning and strategy. It doesn't help that I can't read or post from work reliably either. I repeat: goddamn. If we break 20 people in the future, we have to split. 30 is too many.

Brickroad
04-19-2010, 03:32 AM
It could still be done - he never said how many would be lies, what kind of lies, etc. He also didn't say much else about the contents of the game. I'm not even sure it has mafia in it. (Maybe I'm overthinking this)

Well I was responding to spine, not Bill. Bill's crazy madhouse liar ruleset sounds awful.

30 is too many.

No way, this is awesome.

I think we should alternate: split games, giant game.

Paul le Fou
04-19-2010, 05:26 AM
I still want to run a game of THING next time around, so I'm not worrying about power roles too much right now, but I think it's worth messing around with them some more. I like (the rules of) the game we're running now and like how it's playing out-

Well except for 15 pages of scanner/virus/scanner-virus/virus-scanner/eddie's viral infection/brick's yeast infection/etc. And also the retarded rate of posting.

BUT ANYWAY - point is, I like what we have but if we decide to do more standard mafia I would prefer throwing some basic roles with adjustments back in. The main point would not be "the rules suck without roles" but "we should mix it up each game so it doesn't get stale."

demonkoala
04-19-2010, 07:13 AM
Apparently I prepare to drop a bombshell and I still get zero recognition from Tanto. Geez.

ThornGhost
04-19-2010, 07:56 AM
Apparently I prepare to drop a bombshell and I still get zero recognition from Tanto. Geez.

You can't just prepare, you have to DROP THE BOMB (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UTeewRseGY#t=0m12s).

Alpha Werewolf
04-19-2010, 09:51 AM
Speaking of unknown, to whom do I talk about running a game? I can do one of two.

Number one: Sudden Death Mafia. At the start of the game, the townies outnumber the mafia by just one man, so that if the innocents lynch a single bad guy, they lose. There will either be no or very few special roles. The rules of engagement will accommodate the necessarily more deliberate pace of the game. Recommended for a small number of dedicated players.
Unless the small number is around 5, this sounds horrible.

Number two: Quadruple Secret Mafia. The rules I will post at the beginning of the game will contain outright lies. Some of the players will be made privy to the truth underlying some of the lies. The true rules can be discovered over the course of play. In order to win, the players will have to figure out exactly what kind of madhouse they're playing in.

So basically like the Mind Screw mafia I linked to?

Alright, but there's unknown and then there's unknown. The good kind of unknown is "we don't know how many mafia there are and we don't know which power roles of this set are actually in the game." The bad kind of unknown is "there are some rules to this game, but I'm not telling you what they are. Have fun!"
You have some sort of block against playing mafia with too little information and actually having to use suspicions and analysis to catch the anti-town factions?

Alpha Werewolf
04-19-2010, 10:29 AM
Tell the truth. If somebody claimed Tree Stump, would you not immediately try to lynch him?

I promised a sane game. This seems like a case of you not trusting me.

Alpha Werewolf
04-19-2010, 10:44 AM
Yeah! But as I already said, we're talking about what usually happens, which is claiming roles on the verge of being lynched to try to weasel out of it. No one goes around proclaiming from day 1 "Guys, just so you know, I'm a Tree Stump." Or a Cop, or an Angel. It happens when you're in danger of dying, and in this game, claiming a role when facing a lynch would be a defense equivalent to saying "I am playing in this game."

If you're promising a sane game, I assume you'd let us know what the rules were prior to the start of play--otherwise, it would not be a sane game, it would be the functional equivalent of a no-roles game, which I thought you hated. And if you WERE going to let us know prior to the start of play, why not let us know during the voting phase so we can see what we're voting for? Unless you explicitly are pitching BB's Quadruple Secret Mafia game, what's the harm?

Why are you still talking about not knowing the rules? It's pretty much the same ruleset as the other games, just with a different time limit...

Tanto
04-19-2010, 10:58 AM
Apparently I prepare to drop a bombshell and I still get zero recognition from Tanto. Geez.

You have to actually do it. So much of what goes on in these threads is extraneous, redundant, or irrelevant that I try to avoid spending too much time on something that doesn't lead to or tie into a larger discussion. (You'll note that I don't mark down every single accusation. In the rough draft of Day 1, I did, and even kept a running count, but the accusations began flying around so fast that it became cumbersome, so I dropped it.)

My real fear in doing these things is that we'll get to the postgame and it turns out that the Mafia mastermind was someone I barely mentioned at all, because they weren't saying anything interesting enough to draw my attention. But we'll see how it goes, I guess.

Alpha Werewolf
04-19-2010, 11:00 AM
Because at no point have you ever defined them. You just say "You should trust me!" Also, for being "pretty much the same ruleset" you promised some mystery role that would "totally change the way the game works" and then never told us what that was or how it would do so. Also, you keep arguing it would be more fun not to know what might be in the game, so I'm assuming we wouldn't know. If we would know what might be in the game, then

1) Say so
and 2) Tell us

Ah, of course! I was too mysterious, wasn't I. Here are some details that would not completely shatter the paranoia I was going for:

The roles will generally be picked from the following list:
(just the Basic part) (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Roles). There will be very few roles that are not from that list. One of the latter is a modified form of a role from M1 that will change the way you look at dead people subtantially.

EDIT: Link fixed

shivam
04-19-2010, 11:03 AM
are mafia games even fun anymore? they're so fucking meta that i expect the next game will involve poring over cellphone records and aim logs.

Dizzy
04-19-2010, 11:09 AM
Has it really gotten that bad? Maybe TT and mafia don't mix.

e: And it certainly seems like it was a bad idea to have so many people playing, especially when everyone here has acute logorrhea.

Calorie Mate
04-19-2010, 11:17 AM
Yeah, the meta gaming is...less than fun, particularly if you didn't play in previous games.


Also, I'm awful at remembering when each night is supposed to end. I hate this.

PapillonReel
04-19-2010, 11:19 AM
Srsly, I didn't think this level of pedantic, circular quote-warring was possible, but here we are. The fact that the people most into the game are also the most aggressive and bullying of the bunch really speaks volumes about the mentality of the game right now.

Merus
04-19-2010, 11:19 AM
I remember someone saying that real life games end up being totally meta, as well. The resident buttmonkey hasn't been killed by the werewolves yet? He must be a werewolf, then!

It sure seems like any game that involves the possibility of individual players being able to screw others over ends up in metagaming - Survivor has the same problem. It's one reason why I think the Thing game will be much more fun for people - nearly everyone starts out innocent, so the impulse to read into what people are posting is nowhere near as strong.

Eddie
04-19-2010, 11:25 AM
What can be really done about metagaming under normal circumstances tho?

It's like playing baseball and you're picking a team from a line-up of kids. Of course you'd love to have the scrawny runt on your team, but it's hard to pick him over the burly kid who has proven himself to be a decent team member.

I'm not saying metagaming is a good thing, I'm just saying that all you'll do by 'getting rid of it' is to cause people to simply not talk about it (but where it will still happen).

- Eddie

Alpha Werewolf
04-19-2010, 11:27 AM
I remember someone saying that real life games end up being totally meta, as well. The resident buttmonkey hasn't been killed by the werewolves yet? He must be a werewolf, then!

It sure seems like any game that involves the possibility of individual players being able to screw others over ends up in metagaming - Survivor has the same problem. It's one reason why I think the Thing game will be much more fun for people - nearly everyone starts out innocent, so the impulse to read into what people are posting is nowhere near as strong.

Worst part about Thing? It's prett ymuch going to be a russian roulette on days 1 and 2.

Kayma
04-19-2010, 11:30 AM
The metagaming is totally out of hand, but this latest game has a lot of new blood, so it's not soul-crushing yet. Close, but not yet.

If you want to crush the metagame, you could always make people sign up for anonymous accounts.

Dizzy
04-19-2010, 11:31 AM
Nice! Finally someone around here with a little scrote. Well done sir.

XD

It's like an 80s action movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY6GvTY7E5U) up in that thread.

Nodal
04-19-2010, 11:52 AM
ITM: People don't get programming jokes.

demonkoala
04-19-2010, 12:20 PM
e: And it certainly seems like it was a bad idea to have so many people playing, especially when everyone here has acute logorrhea.

I think that only makes the game better. Seriously.

Tock
04-19-2010, 12:47 PM
I'm with Eddie in that basic metagaming is probably unavoidable. As an example, for better or worse Brick is always going to have his rep as a loud jerk in TT Mafia, and that's going to color any game he's active in. It's just bad strategy to ignore the way his Mafia persona affects the game. The kind of metagame I think we can step away from is using specific examples from previous games and not explaining them. An example (though I don't mean to pick on you guys specifically) is Nich and vaterite referring to Nich's Suspicion List plan in M2W that got vaterite killed. Instead of just posting something like, "Hell no on suspicion lists--M2W showed that much," flesh out the post with the (summarized) details of what happened so that new players aren't forced to dig through pages and pages of old games to understand your argument in the current game. Just a hyperlink isn't good enough, either. If we explain ourselves more thoroughly instead of assuming everyone's read up on the prior three games I think the unavoidable meta stuff will be easier to follow (even if longer explanations will just make Dizzy et al more annoyed at length of posts).

Also, knux to Dizz for citing Showdown in Little Tokyo, one of the best worst movies ever made.

Bongo Bill
04-19-2010, 12:48 PM
Speaking of unknown, to whom do I talk about running a game?

Bongo Bill
04-19-2010, 12:52 PM
I'll be there.

Dizzy
04-19-2010, 01:14 PM
If you want to crush the metagame, you could always make people sign up for anonymous accounts.

That's a good idea. What that idea will solve:


Mafia/Inspector players targeting big personalities right off the bat.
Tactics that rely on people's personalities, i.e. "ABC is such a stingy asshole, thus he is a mafia member," or "XYZ has a Ph.D in psychology. He will surely help us nail those mafia bastards!"
Less references to strategies used in past games. Everyone plays with less sure footing.
No more "Kill all the useless cattle who haven't proven themselves!"*
More emphasis on role-playing.
World hunger

The only problem is how, and I think IRC chat sessions would be best.

e: Or we could start up another message board.

*Which wouldn't be necessary if lynching was optional instead of mandatory to "increase tension" ...yah right.

Nodal
04-19-2010, 01:30 PM
The only problem is how, and I think IRC chat sessions would be best.


Wouldn't it be incredibly annoying to find a time that's good for even some people?

dwolfe
04-19-2010, 02:17 PM
I'm with Eddie in that basic metagaming is probably unavoidable. As an example, for better or worse Brick is always going to have his rep as a loud jerk in TT Mafia, and that's going to color any game he's active in. It's just bad strategy to ignore the way his Mafia persona affects the game. The kind of metagame I think we can step away from is using specific examples from previous games and not explaining them. An example (though I don't mean to pick on you guys specifically) is Nich and vaterite referring to Nich's Suspicion List plan in M2W that got vaterite killed. Instead of just posting something like, "Hell no on suspicion lists--M2W showed that much," flesh out the post with the (summarized) details of what happened so that new players aren't forced to dig through pages and pages of old games to understand your argument in the current game. Just a hyperlink isn't good enough, either. If we explain ourselves more thoroughly instead of assuming everyone's read up on the prior three games I think the unavoidable meta stuff will be easier to follow (even if longer explanations will just make Dizzy et al more annoyed at length of posts).

Also, knux to Dizz for citing Showdown in Little Tokyo, one of the best worst movies ever made.

Great movie!

It's doubly annoying when people misrepresent what actually happened in prior games when metagaming. People can plan and think on more than a surface level, and assuming you know exactly what happened before and why, or is happening now, is just stupid.

I know I never revealed all the levels of planning and strategy I did in prior games, and most people apparently missed the plans within plans (which is good for future games :) ). I assume most people are the same, why give away all your ideas for free?

Nodal
04-19-2010, 02:26 PM
What do you mean?

Awesome.

Dizzy
04-19-2010, 02:36 PM
Wouldn't it be incredibly annoying to find a time that's good for even some people?

That's why I suggested a separate forum--not within TT but outside of it where identities can be shuffled.

Brickroad
04-20-2010, 12:29 AM
Complaining about metagaming in Mafia is a bit like complaining about blue shells in Mario Kart. I mean, you can do it, but it doesn't change the game at all. It is what it is.

Alpha Werewolf
04-20-2010, 04:02 AM
Complaining about metagaming in Mafia is a bit like complaining about Bowser in Mario.

Dizzy
04-20-2010, 04:28 AM
I'd like to test this assumption then, and see if it pans out.

Mrmrmrm. I don't have time to set things up... but I will.

dtsund
04-20-2010, 09:54 AM
I'm afraid I'm going to have to bow out of this game. Too many people + three day time limit makes for too much activity for me to keep track of, and it feels like work. So... at any convenience, I may be replaced.

(But I'd like to participate in a smaller game, next time.)

PapillonReel
04-20-2010, 10:00 AM
I'm tempted to swap myself back in, just to see the looks on their faces. :3

I doubt that spine would go for it, though.

Alpha Werewolf
04-20-2010, 10:07 AM
Dizzy. YOU HAVE ANOTHER SHOT AT GETTING IN!

Nodal
04-20-2010, 10:22 AM
I'm tempted to swap myself back in, just to see the looks on their faces. :3

I doubt that spine would go for it, though.

Because it isn't hard enough to see what you've done in Mafia already, PeculiarReligion.

Kayma
04-20-2010, 10:53 AM
I'm tempted to swap myself back in, just to see the looks on their faces. :3

That would be hilarious. I support this motion.

Calorie Mate
04-20-2010, 10:58 AM
Agreed.

ThornGhost
04-20-2010, 10:59 AM
I for one am all about PresidentReagan getting swapped back into the game. Having some funny little story about his backup data being used to replace dtsund or something would be awesome.

Comb Stranger
04-20-2010, 11:02 AM
You could replace me, Paps!

Oh, wait.

Dizzy
04-20-2010, 12:59 PM
Dizzy. YOU HAVE ANOTHER SHOT AT GETTING IN!

Once again--hell no. My thoughts have now been dangerously consumed about the possibility of a mafia forum. Here is a rough draft of my plans:

Purpose:

Expand the amount and type of mafia games that can be played.
Promote experiments with the game and reward their successes.
Make metagaming entirely optional.


Forum Structure

Forum 1: Rules, Regulations and Theory

Background/History
User Guidelines
Mod/Admin Guidelines
Possible stickies of games, templates, terminologies, maps, strategy guides etc.
Various threads discussing possible game recipes
Sub forum 1: Off-topic
General chatter and lunacy.


Forum 2: Game Area/Lab

Sub forum 1
Rules. New rule sets are posted in stickies in the OP while old ones are stored in replies
Various threads putting theories discussed in RRT forum into practice
Sub forum 2
Ditto
Sub forum 3
Ditto
With the possible exception of making this forum reserved for private parties who want to play with select players in order to maximize fun and minimize random selection in other games that puts them face-to-face with players they don't like playing with.

Forum 3: Administrative Pap

Password-protected forum
Mod/Admin Guidelines
Identity archives.
More archives
Animal pet farm


Here's how it will go:

People babble and vote on the style of games they want in the RRT section and the most popular games get one of the 3 sub forums to play their game on. Creators can play their own game but are in charge of it too, and that includes reporting stuff to the admin/mod people.

I'm thinking of leaving 5 and 5 trusted members only (from here till their graves) completely in charge of the board, but only (2) or (3) will take admin duties at a time. They will be responsible for shuffling duties (boring clerical/security stuff on each forum) between each other so the other people can get some game time. They'll also be responsible for keeping track of who the (5) are by using the Admin Pap forum to keep track them and everyone else. More boring guideline talk will await them in their own playground.

At least one sub forum will have players with their usernames shuffled if they want it for their game. The idea behind this forum rests on the wisdom of my new god, Kayma who has revealed to me the Third Way. It will basically be a metagaming vacuum where everyone is playing as if it is their first day of school and they got a huge chip on their shoulder. The GM (creator of game) will know the game roles of the players but only the admin will know who those people really are outside their game roles. User identities will be returned after the game. If I really wanted to push this radically I'd have everyone who registers to the board pick a username beside the one they're known for on TT (all non-TT parties do not have to worry about this) and their usernames are changed periodically. But I figured people would want to play games with some consistency. The only flaw to my dream here is posting style--users can be reinvented, but their language marks them more than anything, but I don't know how strongly. I'd like to see it.

The whole board will be like one large mafia game: the most popular game (whether in scope or praise) will be the reigning style of the board.

I have no idea about a name, but since I've been using the word 'shuffle' a lot, I might call it Shuffle Mafia. Nah--I call it 'Bulletin Board.'

Comb Stranger
04-20-2010, 01:01 PM
You could name it the Bullet Board.

After Umby.

Calorie Mate
04-20-2010, 01:12 PM
No offense, Diz - I'm sure a lot of people will like that - but I don't think I like mafia enough to visit another board for it.

Dizzy
04-20-2010, 01:20 PM
I'm not that excited either. When I think of the atrocious amount of noise a board like that would pump... man.

I just needed to get that idea out of my head.

Phantoon
04-20-2010, 01:40 PM
Also I'm willing to get that you could guess after a while who was who. Brick'd be really obvious for a starter as would Dizzy. Unless the names were changed each game it would swiftly be no different from here.

Kayma
04-20-2010, 02:27 PM
Make a sub-board on TT. Have the game master make X number of unique accounts, he or she being the keeper of the passwords. Each game, divvy those accounts out to each comer. They can customize the name/avatar/sig/whatever. At the end of the game, the accounts are free, game master can change the passwords, and they're ready for the next game.

Matchstick
04-20-2010, 03:55 PM
Make a sub-board on TT.

We've specifically nixed this idea (where "we" equals Parish).

Destil
04-21-2010, 01:49 AM
I'm tempted to swap myself back in, just to see the looks on their faces. :3

I doubt that spine would go for it, though.

Wait, what? But... he killed... you killed.

"Well, we can't hold PapillonReel's accusation of PapillonReel against PapillonReel, now can we?"

"No, not given that PapillonReel also accused PapillonReel, after all..."

Paul le Fou
04-21-2010, 08:11 AM
Too many people makes for too much activity for me to keep track of, and it feels like work.

I'm definitely coming to agree at this point. I can only get on to check once a day, and it's a huge time investment to read all the shit I need to catch up on in one go, then think about it, then write about it all together.

Hopefully after this game day things will quiet down...

Sprite
04-21-2010, 10:17 AM
There already are Mafia-specific forums. (http://mafiascum.net/)

Calorie Mate
04-21-2010, 10:28 AM
But that one has the word "scum" in it, which is a bad thing around here I guess.

Tanto
04-21-2010, 10:32 AM
Man, writing these summaries, you guys have no idea how hard it is to stop myself from saying "That doesn't necessarily follow" or "You can't assume that at all; what the hell is wrong with you?" all the time.

Neutrality. That is the watchword here. Neutrality.

Nodal
04-21-2010, 10:42 AM
Man, writing these summaries, you guys have no idea how hard it is to stop myself from saying "That doesn't necessarily follow" or "You can't assume that at all; what the hell is wrong with you?" all the time.

Neutrality. That is the watchword here. Neutrality.

You should do a final game write-up of just logical fallacies.

PapillonReel
04-21-2010, 11:22 AM
Going back to the topic of variants for a sec, I was browsing through some of the other Mafia games I've seen on other sites (in this case, the Bronto forums) and I'm liking the idea of a Bodysnatcher game. The gist of it is that, instead of trying to find what roles a player has, we'd know who our target is from the beginning - the trick would be finding who he's taken over and trying to ferret him out.

To start off, we'd have to sign up for alt accounts that carry similar enough names that we can guess who they're supposed to be, like Bango Bob, Calories Man and so on (all provided by Matchstick and SilentSnake of course) just so we can do the body swap thing without risking our entire account history. Once we've got all the players set up and identified, our target (let's say Brickroad) will pick a body randomly and possess their account, at which point they'll do their best to evade detection while we all try and work out who's been taken over. If they evade detection for a long enough period of time, or (if we're working with multiple snatchers in a larger game) if they end up equaling or outnumbering the town, they win.

So, what do you guys think? Good idea? Bad idea?

Nodal
04-21-2010, 11:24 AM
Going back to the topic of variants for a sec, I was browsing through some of the other Mafia games I've seen on other sites and I'm liking the idea of a Bodysnatcher game. The gist of it is that, instead of trying to find what roles a player has, we'd know who our target is from the beginning - the trick would be finding who he's taken over and trying to ferret him out.

To start off, we'd have to sign up for alt accounts that carry similar enough names that we can guess who they're supposed to be, like Bango Bob, Calories Man and so on (all provided by Matchstick and SilentSnake of course) just so we can do the body swap thing without risking our entire account history. Once we've got all the players set up and identified, our target (let's say Brickroad) will pick a body randomly and possess their account, at which point they'll do their best to evade detection while we all try and work out who's been taken over. If they evade detection for a long enough period of time, or (if we're working with multiple snatchers in a larger game) if they end up equaling or outnumbering the town, they win.

So, what do you guys think? Good idea? Bad idea?

That sounds awesome, but how would we know who you were? I can't think of any names close to yours.

kaisel
04-21-2010, 11:24 AM
Going back to the topic of variants for a sec, I was browsing through some of the other Mafia games I've seen on other sites (in this case, the Bronto forums) and I'm liking the idea of a Bodysnatcher game. The gist of it is that, instead of trying to find what roles a player has, we'd know who our target is from the beginning - the trick would be finding who he's taken over and trying to ferret him out.

To start off, we'd have to sign up for alt accounts that carry similar enough names that we can guess who they're supposed to be, like Bango Bob, Calories Man and so on (all provided by Matchstick and SilentSnake of course) just so we can do the body swap thing without risking our entire account history. Once we've got all the players set up and identified, our target (let's say Brickroad) will pick a body randomly and possess their account, at which point they'll do their best to evade detection while we all try and work out who's been taken over. If they evade detection for a long enough period of time, or (if we're working with multiple snatchers in a larger game) if they end up equaling or outnumbering the town, they win.

So, what do you guys think? Good idea? Bad idea?

I think that'd be a pretty great variant, though a lot of work to set up (variant accounts and all that). But it'd be entertaining to try to see people write as other people.

PapillonReel
04-21-2010, 11:25 AM
That sounds awesome, but how would we know who you were? I can't think of any names close to yours.

ButterflyReel sound good? Either that, or any of the myriad PR memes that have sprung up.

Calorie Mate
04-21-2010, 11:30 AM
ButterflyReel sound good? Either that, or any of the myriad PR memes that have sprung up.

I think that was the joke, Paps.


Anyway, so if someone's taking over the accounts, why would they say anything suspicious? It seems incredibly easy to evade detection when you're coordinating with yourself.

PapillonReel
04-21-2010, 11:34 AM
Anyway, so if someone's taking over the accounts, why would they say anything suspicious? It seems incredibly easy to evade detection when you're coordinating with yourself.

The idea is that everyone here, whether they notice it or not, has specific mannerisms that show up when they post that can help us tell each other apart. For example, Brickroad is known for being brash, argumentative, and he loves a good fight - someone more easygoing and quiet would have a hell of a time trying to impersonate him. Basically the focus would be on figuring out who's acting out-of-character and lynching them to see if they've been snatched or not.

Bongo Bill
04-21-2010, 11:35 AM
Here's how a body-snatcher game works:

There is one body-snatcher. Each night, he leaves his previous account dead and migrates to a new one. The owner of that account is kicked out. The body-snatcher must impersonate the person whose body he has snatched for the duration of the day, and subtly manipulate the innocents into killing a fellow innocent.

The body-snatcher must convincingly imitate each person he takes over, whereas the innocents must try to make themselves as hard to imitate as possible. In the past, players have hidden subtle patterns in their messages in hopes that the body-snatcher would not pick up on them.

There's no coordination involved, unless there's more than one body-snatcher, which there can be.

One benefit of a body-snatching game is that a person can volunteer to be the body-snatcher without giving anything away, because the original identity of the body-snatcher is given away at the start.

PapillonReel
04-21-2010, 11:39 AM
Ah, I figured there were a few details I missed. Anyway, that's the gist of it.

EDIT: For the record, I would play this game a hundred times.

Phantoon
04-21-2010, 11:39 AM
Can I have Kraid? Or Ridley?

I'm so down for this you have no idea.

Garrison
04-21-2010, 11:40 AM
It would have to be a pretty small game for it to work. Can you imagine posting as yourself and ten other people. Sounds like a headache to me.

Kayma
04-21-2010, 11:41 AM
When using anonymous accounts with a group you're familiar with, trying to figure out who's who is the best part.

Bongo Bill
04-21-2010, 11:43 AM
I really would like to run Sudden Death Mafia, which would work best as a smaller game anyway. The minimum size for mafia is seven, and I'd be more than willing to go that low if it means I can run it alongside Body Snatchers or whatever you guys do for Mafia 4.

For nearer-to-real-time environments I know a fun variant for five players. Five Man Mafia it is: one mafia, four seers. One cop is sane and always gets the right result. One cop is insane and always gets the wrong result. One cop is paranoid and always sees his target as guilty. One cop is nave and always sees his target as innocent.

Bongo Bill
04-21-2010, 11:44 AM
It would have to be a pretty small game for it to work. Can you imagine posting as yourself and ten other people. Sounds like a headache to me.

The body-snatcher only occupies one account at a time. The previously-occupied account dies when he moves. This is why, Nich, the game isn't immediately won: the original player does not have an account of his own, but starts the game in possession of somebody else's account.

Garrison
04-21-2010, 11:46 AM
Ah, misunderstanding on my part then.

Kayma
04-21-2010, 11:47 AM
For nearer-to-real-time environments I know a fun variant for five players. Five Man Mafia it is: one mafia, four seers. One cop is sane and always gets the right result. One cop is insane and always gets the wrong result. One cop is paranoid and always sees his target as guilty. One cop is nave and always sees his target as innocent.

Ah! This was fun on IRC. Frenetic!

Calorie Mate
04-21-2010, 11:55 AM
For nearer-to-real-time environments I know a fun variant for five players. Five Man Mafia it is: one mafia, four seers. One cop is sane and always gets the right result. One cop is insane and always gets the wrong result. One cop is paranoid and always sees his target as guilty. One cop is nave and always sees his target as innocent.

Now that sounds like fun.

Red Hedgehog
04-21-2010, 01:52 PM
Goddammit guys. I'm not even playing in you stupid mafia game and I had a dream about it last night. You all suck.

Calorie Mate
04-21-2010, 01:56 PM
Oh man, who was Mafia? Who was innocent? This could be useful information.

Nodal
04-21-2010, 02:00 PM
Goddammit guys. I'm not even playing in you stupid mafia game and I had a dream about it last night. You all suck.

I thought we were playing without seers this game.

Eddie
04-21-2010, 02:07 PM
Because someone mentioned it in the game thread, I wanted to reassert something:

You guys are all awesome, and I love playing this game with you.

Except you.

Grr.

- Eddie

Calorie Mate
04-21-2010, 02:09 PM
Everyone else said it, but whatever your motivation on Day 1 is/was, I'm glad you're participating full force now, Eddie. It's been a blast.

Garrison
04-21-2010, 02:11 PM
I'm glad you finally made it to Day 3 Eddie, now we'll never have to feel bad about killing you again!

:)

demonkoala
04-21-2010, 02:16 PM
I'm glad you finally made it to Day 3 Eddie, now we'll never have to feel bad about killing you again!

:)
I will laugh uncontrollably if the Rogues decide to kill him tonight, so next game he can aim to get to day 4. Then I'll shed a tear.

Eddie
04-21-2010, 02:21 PM
I will laugh uncontrollably if the Rogues decide to kill him tonight, so next game he can aim to get to day 4. Then I'll shed a tear.

You see, I was purposefully avoiding mentioning this because I know if I was someone other than me + mafia, I would totally do this.

So thanks demonkoala, I appreciate you throwing that out there.

(just kidding I still love you)

- Eddie

demonkoala
04-21-2010, 02:54 PM
See, I would do the same thing.
So, when you die tonight, everyone will come after me for saying it.

Eddie
04-21-2010, 02:59 PM
I would hope so.

- Eddie

Comb Stranger
04-21-2010, 03:42 PM
So do I get an award for posthumously lynching the first Rogue?

PapillonReel
04-21-2010, 03:43 PM
O-oh my God.

Nodal... you were right.

Nodal
04-21-2010, 03:45 PM
O-oh my God.

Nodal... you were right.

Yes. YEEEEESSSSSS.

Phantoon
04-21-2010, 03:45 PM
ha ha ha YES

Umby
04-21-2010, 03:48 PM
:O

WHAT... WHAT... WHAT... WHAAAAAAAAAAAT?

I mean, considering that I accused him at times, but I changed to Kayma... but wait, huh... what?

But seriously, good job guys.

PapillonReel
04-21-2010, 03:49 PM
:O

WHAT... WHAT... WHAT... WHAAAAAAAAAAAT?

And guess what? You're next, buddy.

Loki
04-21-2010, 03:49 PM
I am shocked. SHOCKED.

I would have never thought.

Umby
04-21-2010, 03:50 PM
Yeah, I know. Either killed by the mafia or lynched by the civilians. I never did play this game well, did I?

demonkoala
04-21-2010, 03:50 PM
Suckazzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Now I'm a happy koala.

Eddie
04-21-2010, 03:51 PM
http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss297/Ashdate/goodbyebrick.jpg

Goodbye Brick, you may have been mafia scum, but in my heart we were brothers.

- Eddie

PapillonReel
04-21-2010, 03:51 PM
Yeah, I know. Either killed by the mafia or lynched by the civilians. I never did play this game well, did I?

I still think the Virus should corrupt you. It would be a grand way to go.

Nodal
04-21-2010, 03:54 PM
You are Brickvirus and I claim my five pounds.

Tanto
04-21-2010, 03:56 PM
That was fucking excruciating.

Day 1 summary (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?p=730981#post730981)
Day 2 summary (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?p=735897#post735897)

Day 3
~Posts #1034-1583~

Plot Summary: As Day 3 begins the players find the murdered body of Comb Stranger's dead deceased corpse. VorpalEdge also replaces Queen Possum from this point forward.

Bongo Bill immediately accuses Kayma, on the basis that he was trying to build up credibility by voting for a losing bandwagon. Bongo Bill claims this is a good strategy for rogues. Speaking of bandwagoning, Nich asks why Byron jumped to PapillonReel (sorry, can't do it any more) so late in the process. (Byron later responds that it was because Eddie was participating and PapillonReel wasn't -- if a Citizen can't be arsed to defend himself when he's on the block, he won't be much help in finding real Mafia either.) Brickroad says that his list for today included Queen Possum and Kayma, but now that Queen Possum has been replaced that leaves him with no other recourse than to accuse Kayma.

Byron examines the way the vote to lynch PapillonReel went down, posting lists of players who 1) did not vote for either Eddie or PapillonReel, essentially wasting their vote, 2) did not vote at all, 3) voted for PapillonReel only after he'd already attained a majority, and 4) switched their vote from Eddie to PapillonReel after the latter had already attained a majority. Byron says he's uncertain as to what value this might be in ferreting out Mafia, but it's better than nothing.

Nich asks Brickroad when he plans to start calling for the lynch of Mafia, as opposed to Citizens who haven't been helpful. Brickroad responds that he would be happy to do so if Nich has any suggestions as to who the Mafia might be. Nich responds that he wants to kill Eddie and still does, and in fact had a whole Day 3 strategy worked out based on whether or not Eddie was revealed to be Citizen or Mafia -- a strategy that's now worthless after the town dogpiled on PapillonReel instead. PapillonReel provided no information since he didn't really have any relationships going, but Eddie might still prove illuminating so Nich accuses him once again.

Kayma starts up the "auto-lynch the Inspector" argument again. Everyone stares blankly at him for a few seconds before proceeding to rip this argument to bloody shreds. Destil argues that there are a few hypothetical situations where the town may want to leave the Inspector alive, but this all depends on what information he reveals. Byron says the whole discussion's irrelevant because the Inspector hasn't come out yet and the Citizens can't make any decisions until he does. Loki thinks that no Mafia would be dumb enough to come out on the side of not lynching the Inspector after it's already got so much support.

Byron accuses Brickroad for wanting to string up innocents regardless of whether or not they're Mafia, instead based on whether or not they're helpful. Nich seconds this, claiming that Brickroad doesn't have a long-term plan besides lynching whoever's annoying him most at the moment. Brickroad asks what the plan is after lynching him, and Nich responds that this depends on what Brickroad's autopsy reveals.

Brickroad and Byron argue about semantics for what seems like years, even though they're both on the same side.

Byron points out that the Citizens have other means of expressing their suspicion of players besides simply stringing 'em up.

Brickroad makes another woe-is-me post where he says that no matter how he tries to play the game he's accused of being a supicious, duplicitous player. He asks for advice on how not to do this.

Tock says that he is still very suspicious of Eddie. His argument is that Day 2 crawled along while Eddie was the accusation du jour, but that as soon as the bandwagon against PapillonReel picked up people couldn't wait to see the end of the day. From this Tock concludes that the town had Eddie dead to rights and the Mafia were feeling for an alternate candidate, posting name after name until they found one that had legs. He accuses Eddie again, claiming the town got played in Day 2 and that Eddie shouldn't get any extra rope just because he kept himself out of the noose for one night.

Brickroad argues that the point of going after low-lying players is to keep the Mafia from hiding in the shadows and force them to participate. The more they talk, the more likely they are to slip up, so the Citizens need to foster an environment where it's clear that quiet players will not be tolerated. (Several players seem not to understand the premise of this argument, so this discussion recurs with minimal variations over the course of the next several pages.) Nonetheless, a bandwagon against him begins building, as Destil, Umby, and Merus add their votes to the pile. Bongo Bill points out that the sudden campaign against Brickroad feels organized.

ThornGhost accuses Bongo Bill based on data from the suspicion lists of the previously lynched. Brickroad asks why the suspicion lists are being taken as gospel, but Nich likes the sound of it (at least more than guessing and gut feeling), and seconds it. Brickroad says, after being queried, that suspicion lists are a jumping-off point for discussion, rather than "X is on both Y and Z's list, therefore he is double Mafia".

Merus says that if the Mafia didn't turn Brickroad, they're "incompetent."

Paul le Fou emerges to start laying down some serious analysis. He begins by dissolving Umby's case against Brickroad and notes that going after lurkers may have simply been Comb Stranger's style. He then makes a long post in which he examines the careers of such luminaries as Kayma, Loki, Bongo Bill, demonkoala, and Eddie. He also says despite refuting Umby earlier, Brickroad may be asking the wrong guy to save him.

Namelessentity wants to talk more about the reasons behind Comb Stranger's death, which was sort of lost in the whirlwind of accusations that began the day. Merus believes that the Mafia was afraid he would begin leading the discussion.

Eddie steps in and posts a long defense of Brickroad, accusing the anti-Brickroad players of voting for him because he makes them feel stupid. This strategy does not work as well as its architect might have hoped. Merus argues that there's no good reason for Brickroad to still be alive if he is indeed a Citizen.

Brickroad declares he's not going to just lay down and die the way PapillonReel did, so he answers every post expressing suspicion of him at length. The general theme is that Brickroad's strategy is playing to his strengths as a player (namely, stirring up discussion and forcing people to respond), while leaving the other aspects of the game to other players who can handle it better. In a game as large as this one, he argues, no single player can possibly keep the entire game in their head, so the Citizens need to divvy up the responsibilities. He also argues that the people accusing him because they don't like his strategy aren't proposing any real alternatives, and that accusing him because he's playing differently than before is nonsensical because the rules have changed.

Merus and Nich say that the optimal Citizen strategy is to comb through the thread looking for relationships, then lynch based on the most suspicious ones. Garrison points out that in previous games, the Mafia specifically avoided interacting with each other too much. Merus responds that this is fine too; if the Mafia aren't talking to each other, that will be visible as well.

Brickroad accuses Byron, saying that the latter's accusation of the former diverted discussion away from suspicion lists and changed the direction of the thread to one that was stronger for Mafia. Byron responds by saying that Brickroad is being unhelpful and trying to shut down conversation with mockery and bullying.

Some discussion of ensues about the number of Mafia. Eddie thinks there are fewer than people are assuming (perhaps around six), while other players believe there may be as many as ten once the turned Citizen is accounted for.

Eddie comes up with another hypothetical situation where auto-lynching the Inspector may not be a good idea. (An endgame scenario where the Mafia and Citizens have nearly-identical numbers.) Some of his enemies jump on this as evidence of his being a hypocrite. Math ensues.

Late in the day a campaign againsts Kayma begins to pick up some renewed life, with namelessentity defecting from the lynch-Brickroad faction to bring the two candidates into a temporary stalemate, but demonkoala (who had previously been accusing Tock) votes for Brickroad to pull him ahead again.

As the day closes, several players express misgivings about the decision to lynch Brickroad, to no avail. However, once Brickroad is finally lynched, it comes out that he is Mafia, the first one revealed thus far.

Themes: All the events of Day 3 are dominated by one man: Brickroad. The sky darkens and explosions are heard as the trial of Brickroad pushes all other subjects of discussion into the background. Brickroad is eventually dragged kicking and screaming to the gallows, revealing his true nature and setting the town on the path to redemption.

Umby
04-21-2010, 03:57 PM
I still think the Virus should corrupt you. It would be a grand way to go.

Oh ho ho ho ho. Ho ho ho ho. Ho. What a funny joke.
In all seriousness, yes, wouldn't that be funny?

Merus
04-21-2010, 04:01 PM
All I can say is fuck yeah.

Kylie
04-21-2010, 04:09 PM
A brief moment of celebrations.

:D

Good game, Brick!

Let's keep the thread clean.

PapillonReel
04-21-2010, 04:10 PM
Let's keep the thread clean.

Yeah, the last thing we need is for something else to go corrupt. :p

Kylie
04-21-2010, 04:15 PM
Also: Eddie, that is beautiful.

PapillonReel
04-21-2010, 04:17 PM
Brickroad should make a video of him eating Destil's hat.

Eddie
04-21-2010, 04:18 PM
Also: Eddie, that is beautiful.

Trust me when I say I've got something even better for you.

Well, I think it's better.

- Eddie

Nodal
04-21-2010, 04:18 PM
Brickroad should make a video of him eating Destil's hat.

To say nothing of Garrison's balls.

ThornGhost
04-21-2010, 04:21 PM
I really hope someone can inherit the hat.

dtsund
04-21-2010, 04:22 PM
Heck yes! I was right about him!

PapillonReel
04-21-2010, 04:22 PM
To say nothing of Garrison's balls.

_

Merus
04-21-2010, 04:24 PM
I really hope someone can inherit the hat.
I want the hat.

Dizzy
04-21-2010, 04:25 PM
Can we expect a crucified crab now?

Nodal
04-21-2010, 04:26 PM
I really hope someone can inherit the hat.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l222/NodalW/Brickroad.png

Garrison
04-21-2010, 04:31 PM
To say nothing of Garrison's balls.

I'll keep those on my truck thank you very much!

In other news, yay! My gut reaction was right again.

Calorie Mate
04-21-2010, 04:37 PM
I'm grinning from ear to ear.

fanboymaster
04-21-2010, 04:48 PM
Well, guess I was wrong on this one.

Calorie Mate
04-21-2010, 04:48 PM
Man, all that work and Tanto didn't deem me worthy of a single line! Ah, well. So it goes.

Garrison
04-21-2010, 04:49 PM
It's okay Calories, I'm trivial too!

Kylie
04-21-2010, 04:52 PM
I'm Captain Semantics! Toot Toot!

All aboard the Trivial Steamer!

TOOT

Destil
04-21-2010, 05:19 PM
I'm definitely coming to agree at this point. I can only get on to check once a day, and it's a huge time investment to read all the shit I need to catch up on in one go, then think about it, then write about it all together.

Hopefully after this game day things will quiet down...

Four pages between when I leave for work and I get home.

Nice fast summary, Tonto.

...

... HAH. I was right!

And Brick ate the hat, as you all well know -_- My old avatar's dad gave him that hat!

PapillonReel
04-21-2010, 05:21 PM
Tonto.

I guess that makes spineshark the Lone Ranger?

Sprite
04-21-2010, 05:36 PM
You guys are entertaining.

I'm glad to see other people like the body snatcher variant. I'm not sure how well it would work anywhere that's not an enthusiast forum (I can see Matchstick balking at the fourteen account requests) but it would be insanely fun to watch.

"You're acting strange today..."

It would also probably take far less time if we keep it small (everyone split up into 7-10 people sized groups, then do a rapid-fire sequence of games). You'd need a pretty skilled bodysnatcher to hide for that long. The odds would be pretty stacked against him.

Brickroad
04-21-2010, 06:03 PM
http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss297/Ashdate/goodbyebrick.jpg

Goodbye Brick, you may have been mafia scum, but in my heart we were brothers.

- Eddie

*fist bump*

So anyway that was the single best day of Mafia I've played so far. Now hurry up and finish so I can get back in the gaaaaaaaaaaame.

Destil
04-21-2010, 06:13 PM
I guess that makes spineshark the Lone Ranger?

Damn it. Sorry, Toto.

Man, I miss the game for ONE day because I have the audacity to sleep and have a job and be on call (I couldn't even play D&D because I spent midnight-6:30 AM Monday night fixing robots and then just passed out Tuesday) and I can keep up a little, but I go to work and come back and there's 4 pages? I don't think I'm signing up again if we've got 30+ players next time, especially in a 2 kill/day game (add a vig and a 2nd faction and I'd think about it).

Calorie Mate
04-22-2010, 09:01 AM
*fist bump*

So anyway that was the single best day of Mafia I've played so far. Now hurry up and finish so I can get back in the gaaaaaaaaaaame.

I can only imagine the rush from having all these people gunning for you and knowing they were right. (I wonder how fun it would be if you knew you were innocent?)

Comb Stranger
04-22-2010, 09:11 AM
The good new is, Brick finally found a Mafioso before they were lynched!

Nodal
04-22-2010, 09:16 AM
The good new is, Brick finally found a Mafioso before they were lynched!

I heard he actually knew who they all were this game. He did pretty good.

Brickroad
04-22-2010, 09:29 AM
I can only imagine the rush from having all these people gunning for you and knowing they were right.

Dude. So awesome.

Even better: almost changing a few of their minds!

(I wonder how fun it would be if you knew you were innocent?)

Actually I bet that would have been frustrating as shit. =P

Kylie
04-22-2010, 11:44 AM
It's most frustrating when you're Inspectored, really -- because then there's nothing you can do. You don't really get the rush of accusation and defense, it's just a little disappointing.

Umby
04-22-2010, 01:17 PM
Even better: almost changing a few of their minds!


In my defense, I changed because I felt like Kayma was worth killing first, but you were still up there.

Still, boy, was I wrong.

Calorie Mate
04-22-2010, 04:35 PM
Ok, just so we're extra-special clear: when does night end this time?

dtsund
04-22-2010, 04:45 PM
Ok, just so we're extra-special clear: when does night end this time?

This is Mafia! This night, this shadow over you, won't end until you kill them all. Or they kill you.

spineshark
04-22-2010, 05:00 PM
And it will, because unlike the other nights, this one is actually scheduled to end at a time that I don't expect to have any conflicts for.

demonkoala
04-23-2010, 03:32 PM
*taps watch disappointingly*
Well, time to drink margaritas at work instead...

Nodal
04-23-2010, 03:36 PM
Man first the seer, and now Pappy is angeling himself...all the special roles this game guys!

spineshark
04-23-2010, 03:41 PM
I like how I got hounded by two people despite being exactly on time. I think I'll have to be late on purpose next just to spite them.

Tanto
04-24-2010, 09:07 AM
Is it possible that Byron was killed just to slow the thread down? I mean, Brickroad's dead, so all you'd have to do is kill Nich and you'd have cleared out all the loudmouths from that thread.

...Anyway, I've received a request to C&D with regards to the summaries, so there won't be any more. I'd hate to think that I was unwittingly stepping on someone's strategic toes (especially speaking as I am from a position that's free from retaliation) and making the game less fun for anybody. I kind of wish they'd spoken up back before the game started when I was trying to figure out if anyone had a problem with it, but eh.

kaisel
04-24-2010, 10:30 AM
Is it possible that Byron was killed just to slow the thread down? I mean, Brickroad's dead, so all you'd have to do is kill Nich and you'd have cleared out all the loudmouths from that thread.

...Anyway, I've received a request to C&D with regards to the summaries, so there won't be any more. I'd hate to think that I was unwittingly stepping on someone's strategic toes (especially speaking as I am from a position that's free from retaliation) and making the game less fun for anybody. I kind of wish they'd spoken up back before the game started when I was trying to figure out if anyone had a problem with it, but eh.

Eh, weekends are always pretty slow in the Mafia games, that's probably why it's so slow.

Sucks about the summaries, I enjoyed reading them and thought they were pretty neutral, but I guess other people may not have felt that way.

Brickroad
04-24-2010, 10:51 AM
What was the problem with the summaries? I can only conclude someone is a little girly man.

PapillonReel
04-24-2010, 01:55 PM
...Anyway, I've received a request to C&D with regards to the summaries

"...and I'm going to tell them to shove it, because writing summaries are great for everybody."

Srsly, I'll be sad if you don't keep up chronicling the Mafia games. You should totally consider narrating for one in the future, Tanto.

JohnB
04-25-2010, 02:04 PM
Yeah, screw those guys. This is such an easier way to keep track of the game as a spectator (Well, definitely at least this current mammoth one- it's already bigger than the finished first three game threads were), and there's a hell of a lot more of us that aren't playing than are. I appreciated the effort and hope you decide to keep going with these narratives.

Comb Stranger
04-25-2010, 03:23 PM
Since the Inspector is less viable this time around, the innocents need to pay more attention to get by. Having it summarized out of game is giving the civvies a bit of an edge, so you know, bitch bitch moan.

dwolfe
04-25-2010, 06:32 PM
Since the Inspector is less viable this time around, the innocents need to pay more attention to get by. Having it summarized out of game is giving the civvies a bit of an edge, so you know, bitch bitch moan.

The problem is that Tanto is doing a great job of being objective while summarizing, right?

If it were done in-game by someone, you could never tell if they were mafia or a citizen, and conspiracy theories would fly about everything left out/included. So Tanto, quit being so awesome? That's the argument, seriously? Lame, just ask no one read this thread for summaries if they're such a concern. Keep up the good work Tanto!

Red Hedgehog
04-25-2010, 07:45 PM
I... think it's a good thing that Tanto stopped. While it was great for those not in the game to grok what was going on, I'm sure it was (potentially) giving unfair advantage to one side in the game. And that's worth it stopping.

Brickroad
04-25-2010, 08:15 PM
We need to use the M3 post-game to figure out a good way to continue doing the summaries. I feel like they are an objective good, and I'm not convinced they can in any way affect the game as long as they're being written by an unbiased observer with no special game knowledge.

This is going to sound weird coming from me, but come on folks, let's not take the game so seriously that it can't be discussed by bystanders in a side-thread.

Dizzy
04-25-2010, 08:23 PM
I remember vouching for that summary shit quite some time ago, especially when I realized how much the games would suffer from TL;DR side effects.

dwolfe
04-25-2010, 08:23 PM
I... think it's a good thing that Tanto stopped. While it was great for those not in the game to grok what was going on, I'm sure it was (potentially) giving unfair advantage to one side in the game. And that's worth it stopping.

RH, please explain how and who a summary gives advantage to, exactly? Or anyone else? I don't see it, the more I think about it.

Tanto isn't going to say 'ahah, this stupid plan by the citizens they better rethink' or 'the seemingly mafia plot to do X,' is he? He doesn't know roles, and was being careful not to overstate things. He's just saving people some time in the future, and I've seen a lot of people in every game complain there's just too much to go over, and just *throw up hands* and mostly quit on the game. Not everyone puts as much into the game as Brick, Byron, Nich, etc. in time and effort, and as you can see this game, losing some of them means the game grinds to a halt and gets...more boring. Which was the issue back in M1; the Mafia thought that if Brick and Merus had died, it'd have been boring.

Again, just have it as a Gentleman's Rule not to read the summaries while the game is in play at very worst, if you can convince me summaries are bad. Like how most people (I think) didn't play and read M2E and M2W at the same time.

...actually, I'm not curious who was reading along and who wasn't in M2 (reading once you died obviously, doesn't count).

Brickroad
04-25-2010, 08:26 PM
stuff we shouldn't be discussing until the post-game

Keep a lid on it until the game's over, dwolfe. The discussion won't be worth anything until the players themselves can offer their thoughts, and that would give one team an unfair advantage.

The GM made a call, let's abide by it until the game's over.

Comb Stranger
04-25-2010, 08:43 PM
If someone set up another BB, there could be an invisible forum for dead players & spectators. Would be a bit of a pain on the moderator, though.

VorpalEdge
04-25-2010, 08:56 PM
...actually, I'm not curious who was reading along and who wasn't in M2 (reading once you died obviously, doesn't count).

I broke down and started reading East about halfway through West. It didn't affect my playstyle much at all, since I mostly just wanted to vigilante-kill Brick...

Brickroad
04-25-2010, 08:59 PM
I broke down and started reading East about halfway through West. It didn't affect my playstyle much at all, since I mostly just wanted to vigilante-kill Brick...

...so it was personal!

I probably would have read M2W earlier if I didn't have Nich and McDohl each hanging off one of my ears bitching about it the whole time.

VorpalEdge
04-25-2010, 09:06 PM
maybe ;)

Calorie Mate
04-26-2010, 10:50 AM
Are there Mafia variants where the Mafia has, like, an undercover cop or something? I think it could potentially be neat to have them paranoid as well, but I'm not sure how the specifics would work.

Kylie
04-26-2010, 11:07 AM
Every Mafia and the cop would out themselves on day 2, and you'd just have to lynch each one until you got an innocent.

Calorie Mate
04-26-2010, 11:32 AM
Good point. That's too bad, it had potential.

Nodal
04-26-2010, 11:36 AM
What about a Mafia with very few citizens and a lot of different win conditions for different people? Like some people win only if they stay alive, some people win if a certain other person dies, etc.

Sprite
04-26-2010, 02:01 PM
Day 100 is nuts.

What about a Mafia with very few citizens and a lot of different win conditions for different people? Like some people win only if they stay alive, some people win if a certain other person dies, etc.

Nah, too chaotic. People have a hard enough time remembering the rules as it is.

Brickroad
04-26-2010, 07:24 PM
Tanto's not allowed to write summaries so here's mine of Day 100:

Brickroad's name is mentioned 17,000 times, then everyone decides to lynch some dude, then everyone decides to lynch some other dude instead.

Eddie
04-26-2010, 07:29 PM
It's like you're still in the game Brick, nearly getting me lynched. Again.

- Eddie

spineshark
04-26-2010, 07:37 PM
Tanto's not allowed to write summaries so here's mine of Day 100:
He's certainly allowed. I redirected an anonymous suggestion toward him; I have no intention of personally forcing the issue one way or the other. (I will say that considering he knows nothing and I know everything, I happen to think they're reasonably fair. Today was only eight pages anyway, though.)

Brickroad
04-26-2010, 07:59 PM
It's like you're still in the game Brick, nearly getting me lynched. Again.

Of course I'm in the game, Eddie. I'm always in the game.

I am the game.

fanboymaster
04-26-2010, 08:02 PM
D'oh, thought we might have a rogue. Guess perhaps it was too much to hope for.

Umby
04-26-2010, 08:03 PM
I thought we may've had one too... ah well, I'm down on my luck again.

Calorie Mate
04-26-2010, 11:04 PM
More than anything, I'm impressed with the rapid turn around on the all-but-decided death of Eddie. You people really made use of those last few hours!

Comb Stranger
04-27-2010, 05:31 AM
TT subscribes to the Perry Mason school of lawyering. Put one person on trial, when WHAM, drop the bomb damning someone on the witness stand.

Destil
04-27-2010, 08:14 AM
You've given me hope, Calories Man. Before today I wouldn't have thought such a turn-around was possible. now watch me get wacked tonight

PapillonReel
05-01-2010, 06:59 PM
Oh God damn it.

Garrison
05-01-2010, 06:59 PM
I'm sorry guys. This one is on me.

Brickroad
05-01-2010, 07:17 PM
...like dominoes.

Merus
05-01-2010, 07:18 PM
I'm sorry guys. This one is on me.

Garrison!!

(It's cool, dude. I really thought he was guilty.)

VorpalEdge
05-01-2010, 07:24 PM
Brick is having waaaaaay too much fun. I suggest we lynch him again, just to be sure.

Brickroad
05-01-2010, 07:26 PM
Brick is having waaaaaay too much fun. I suggest we lynch him again, just to be sure.

Careful, you keep metagaming like that and Caloriesdude is gonna take you out just on principle.

demonkoala
05-01-2010, 07:36 PM
The first few times Umby posted, I immediately thought he was innocent...then the last day, he was so stupid that I thought he was a rogue...and this past day, I actually believed his innocence one more.

Hopin you guys catch some real rogues soon :[

Destil
05-01-2010, 07:50 PM
Fuck fuck fuck.

We kill Umby every damn game and he's never mafia. When will we learn!

Brickroad
05-01-2010, 08:03 PM
Hopin you guys catch some real rogues soon :[

I'm not supposed to tell anyone this, but I kind of feel sorry for you guys.

The truth is, I was the only rogue. The rest of you are standards. Me and spineshark set this all up just to screw with you lot.

The really funny thing is that there are four scanners.

Umby
05-01-2010, 09:27 PM
I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

No hard feelings, right? (I'm technically not supposed to be on right now, but it's the end of the no electronics day, and I was curious).

spineshark
05-01-2010, 09:30 PM
I'm not supposed to tell anyone this, but I kind of feel sorry for you guys.

The truth is, I was the only rogue. The rest of you are standards. Me and spineshark set this all up just to screw with you lot.

The really funny thing is that there are four scanners.
Yeah, my agreement with Brick was actually that after he got lynched, I would switch all the rogues to scanners and vice versa.

PapillonReel
05-01-2010, 09:38 PM
You know, this all sounds familiar...

EDIT: Oh noooo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-03vYYAjA)

Umby
05-01-2010, 09:47 PM
That man is totally me, but envision two different factions making it happen, and at the same time. Rinse and repeat for two more mafia games.

McDohl
05-01-2010, 11:21 PM
Can we get a final vote tally for Umby? Thanks.

spineshark
05-01-2010, 11:23 PM
Yeah...I'm lazy. It'll be up when I feel like it (by the morning, surely)

Nodal
05-02-2010, 09:21 AM
Umby, you're just so suspicious :(

Calorie Mate
05-02-2010, 10:29 AM
Careful, you keep metagaming like that and Caloriesdude is gonna take you out just on principle.

It's been the only strategy that worked so far!

Comb Stranger
05-02-2010, 02:41 PM
Umby has been lynched, whacked, shotgunned, and now killed by a zombie.

Umby
05-02-2010, 03:00 PM
Well, at least Pappy was the first one to vote for me. And you know what? I killed him in the first place. It's like he was out for revenge.

There's got to be another way I can get killed in M4. Gotta be.

Dizzy
05-02-2010, 04:03 PM
Umby has been lynched, whacked, shotgunned, and now killed by a zombie.

Bastards! (http://www.imgonnaknockyouout.com/kenny_south_park.jpg) (You saw this coming.)

shivam
05-02-2010, 04:05 PM
god, is game three _still_ going on?

shivam
05-02-2010, 04:10 PM
is it still a bricknich basket of dialog?

Kylie
05-02-2010, 04:23 PM
I solved half of that. And then it solved me.

Destil
05-02-2010, 04:47 PM
At least we don't spend three pages every day talking about what to do with the scanner anymore.

Right. Now we're arguing about what to do with with what people said to do with the scanner.

PapillonReel
05-02-2010, 05:27 PM
There's got to be another way I can get killed in M4. Gotta be.

Judging by the interest shown for both, we're either running a Bodysnatcher or Thing game for M4. Be prepared.

Bongo Bill
05-02-2010, 08:38 PM
Judging by the interest shown for both, we're either running a Bodysnatcher or Thing game for M4. Be prepared.

Or Sudden Death Mafia. If you end up innocent, you will have to survive - or you'll lose!

Calorie Mate
05-03-2010, 10:43 AM
I still maintain that The Thing variant will just feel like Day 1 repeated over and over, and that's no fun.

Dizzy
05-03-2010, 10:47 AM
Really? I was planning on playing mafia again and that was the game I wanted to play. Nothing about any of this seems like any damn fun!

Alpha Werewolf
05-03-2010, 11:06 AM
I would like to point something out for all you people who are complaining about this game: I FUCKING TOLD YOU SO.

Alpha Werewolf
05-03-2010, 11:30 AM
I still maintain that The Thing variant will just feel like Day 1 repeated over and over, and that's no fun.

And Dizzy, but I guess he isn't playing either.

Calorie Mate
05-03-2010, 11:32 AM
I believe that's me complaining about the next game, not the current one. Ohooooooooo

Alpha Werewolf
05-03-2010, 11:34 AM
I believe that's me complaining about the next game, not the current one. Ohooooooooo

wut? You've only played in this one, how could you complin about any other?

Calorie Mate
05-03-2010, 11:40 AM
I'm complaining about the propose The Thing variant we were kicking for around after this current game was over. Try to keep up, now.

Alpha Werewolf
05-03-2010, 11:45 AM
Day 1 repeated over and over, and that's no fun.

Calorie Mate
05-03-2010, 11:47 AM
I still maintain that The Thing variant will just feel like Day 1 repeated over and over, and that's no fun.

Comb Stranger
05-03-2010, 11:50 AM
Quote.

Alpha Werewolf
05-03-2010, 11:51 AM
@Calories: How does that change the fact that you said "Day 1 was no fun"?

Alpha Werewolf
05-03-2010, 11:57 AM
Because it's not a fact that he said that. What he said, and this is easily apparent to anyone with basic reading comprehension skills, is that a game that consisted of the information-less day 1--a feature not unique to this game of mafia, but one found in all three previous games--over and over would be no fun.

That's not what he said! He reffered to a very specific Day 1 (supported by the fact that he only played in one game), and said that a game consisting of that Day 1 repeated would be no fun. QED, Day 1 was no fun.

Dizzy
05-03-2010, 11:57 AM
Because it's not a fact that he said that. What he said, and this is easily apparent to anyone with basic reading comprehension skills, is that a game that consisted of the information-less day 1--a feature not unique to this game of mafia, but one found in all three previous games--over and over would be no fun.

Especially with Brick stringing up newbies left and right until the criterion for execution becomes the size of one's testicles.

Calorie Mate
05-03-2010, 12:05 PM
Because it's not a fact that he said that. What he said, and this is easily apparent to anyone with basic reading comprehension skills, is that a game that consisted of the information-less day 1--a feature not unique to this game of mafia, but one found in all three previous games--over and over would be no fun.

That's not what he said! He reffered to a very specific Day 1 (supported by the fact that he only played in one game), and said that a game consisting of that Day 1 repeated would be no fun. QED, Day 1 was no fun.

No, you're actually wrong, and Nich is right. I didn't refer to a specific Day 1, I meant any Day 1 ever is no fun.

Alpha Werewolf
05-03-2010, 12:07 PM
Now you've got me confused. How can you say that any Day 1 ever is no fun if you've only played once?

Calorie Mate
05-03-2010, 12:14 PM
It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Day 1 isn't fun because nobody knows anything - so either you have to take a shot in the dark, or (if the rules allow it) do nothing. Neither of those is much fun. The meat of the game begins on Day 2.

Alpha Werewolf
05-03-2010, 12:18 PM
It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Day 1 isn't fun because nobody knows anything - so either you have to take a shot in the dark, or (if the rules allow it) do nothing. Neither of those is much fun. The meat of the game begins on Day 2.

Entirely subjective. I like most Day 1's.

Kayma
05-03-2010, 12:53 PM
Every day is fun when you're the Alpha Werewolf. Doubly so if you scry as inno.

Garrison
05-03-2010, 01:01 PM
Day 1 can be kind of interesting when played on the side of the Mafia. Not being able to speak to your allies during the day makes for an interesting guessing game on who's going to be assertive, who's going to be defensive and who's barely going to be there at all. Having to pick up on these subtle signs without actually sharing words with them is kind of fun.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, Day 1 as a citizen is boring. It's basically just arguing to either end the day early or debating who we can afford to lose. By now, it's practically common knowledge that Day 1 is a wash as far as usefulness goes.

I didn't think about The Thing or the Bodysnatcher games until Calorie Mate brought it up. Personally, I'd prefer a regular game of mafia, but I guess I'll play regardless.

Comb Stranger
05-03-2010, 01:23 PM
Day one is fun because you get to pick on the fat kid. He's probably not Mafia, but hey, who needs him?

Calorie Mate
05-03-2010, 01:24 PM
Entirely subjective. I like most Day 1's.

Not the point, although you're mostly wrong. The point was you said I was complaining about the current game, and I was not. Check and mate.

Umby
05-03-2010, 01:28 PM
I didn't think about The Thing or the Bodysnatcher games until Calorie Mate brought it up. Personally, I'd prefer a regular game of mafia, but I guess I'll play regardless.

Same as my opinion. I would rather a regular game, really.

Calorie Mate
05-03-2010, 01:31 PM
If only I was this good at swaying opinion in an actual Mafia game, I'd be set.

ThornGhost
05-03-2010, 01:56 PM
I accuse Calorie Mate!

...of saying cool things.

Brickroad
05-03-2010, 03:39 PM
Day 1 was awesome.

Day 2 was pretty awesome too.

Day 3 was FANTASTIC.

I also have opinions on Day 4 and Day 5!

Dizzy
05-03-2010, 03:42 PM
Day one is fun because you get to pick on the fat kid. He's probably not Mafia, but hey, who needs him?

Until you discover I left the key that opens up all the reverse bear traps attached to all your heads inside his guts! Ahahaha.

VorpalEdge
05-03-2010, 05:44 PM
I TOLD YOU

I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU

You did. And everyone listened to you. You were so sure that you were not a citizen. :(

you're the worst rogue ever

Bongo Bill
05-03-2010, 09:30 PM
I'm going to run fast-paced games of Five-Man Mafia on IRC. Be in #talkingtime on irc.esper.net and from there I will give you instructions.

Brickroad
05-03-2010, 09:31 PM
I'm going to run fast-paced games of Five-Man Mafia on IRC. Be in #talkingtime on irc.esper.net and from there I will give you instructions.

Do one of these this Thursday night, and I am SO THERE.

dtsund
05-03-2010, 10:01 PM
I'm going to run fast-paced games of Five-Man Mafia on IRC. Be in #talkingtime on irc.esper.net and from there I will give you instructions.

Yesss, I will be there.

Paul le Fou
05-03-2010, 10:22 PM
That might be interesting!

Also, I think Thing will be a new and different game with different ways to approach it. Looking for people whose behaviors change, and the ever-increasing chance to hit a Thing as the game progresses will make for a different dynamic. I'm still definitely interested in trying it out.

I'm working on flavor text right now that can be used for either a Thing game or a mafia game under my older suggested rules, too. I'd have to go look at those again after playing through a whole other game without roles to see if I'd change any, but yeah.

dtsund
05-03-2010, 10:49 PM
Okay, after one game, I've learned that Bongo Bill's assertion that these games are fast-paced is a lie, when I play, anyway, and it's probably entirely my own damn fault. I just spent like half an hour on Day 1 putting everyone's results in through the logic grinder, completely proving my own innocence in the process. It was glorious.

Brickroad
05-03-2010, 10:55 PM
please you guys dont get sick of irc mafia before thursday night pleeeeeease

Dizzy
05-03-2010, 10:56 PM
It's taking me a while to adapt to this rule set. I forgot most of the rules in the 2nd round!

EDIT: IRC Mafia might be the trickiest variant of mafia yet. For me at least.

dtsund
05-03-2010, 11:10 PM
please you guys dont get sick of irc mafia before thursday night pleeeeeease

Oh, don't worry about that. After that nice logic grinder, I got to have a great time leading them all astray as the Mafia. It was, again, glorious. You should have seen it!

fanboymaster
05-03-2010, 11:16 PM
I don't know what to believe anymore about you dtsund. Are you really a spambot?

dtsund
05-03-2010, 11:18 PM
I don't know what to believe anymore about you dtsund. Are you really a spambot?

No, but I am attempting to torment Brickroad right now.

Incidentally... I could probably save a transcript of tonight's games, or the ones I was there for anyway, if anyone's interested.

dtsund
05-04-2010, 12:06 AM
Aaanndd... Dizzy snatches defeat from the jaws of victory. That was hilarious.

(And I have a transcript, too! PM me if you want it.)

Dizzy
05-04-2010, 12:06 AM
Just post it here.

fanboymaster
05-04-2010, 12:07 AM
DIZZY!

Brickroad
05-04-2010, 12:07 AM
Just post it here.

Yeah, do this.

Dizzy
05-04-2010, 12:11 AM
Firstly, I threw in the towel because dtstund threw in the towel. I got upset he didn't want to play the game and let me and you wrestle with it for a bit. Secondly, apparently you can't trust the time discrepancies in an IRC client because it lags in different time zones or whatever. So victory could have been had if someone wanted to play persistently, and if the service wasn't so substandard.

In the course of this post I have effectively lifted the burden of guilt off of me and on to this vague pile of nothing here.

dtsund
05-04-2010, 12:14 AM
Firstly, I threw in the towel because dtstund threw in the towel. I got upset he didn't want to play the game and let me and you wrestle with it for a bit. Secondly, apparently you can't trust the time discrepancies in an IRC client because it lags in different time zones or whatever. So victory could have been had if someone wanted to play persistently, and if the service wasn't so substandard.

In the course of this post I have effectively lifted the burden of guilt off of me and on to this vague pile of nothing here.

I didn't intentionally throw in the towel, per se; I just made a monumentally stupid error.

How stupid, you ask? See for yourself at the end...

10:05 Started talking in 5mm on Monday 5/3/2010 10:05:11 PM
Started talking in 5mm on Monday 5/3/2010 10:05:11 PM
Room topic is: DAY 2
Room moderation is on
Yeoz argh
Yeoz i might as well flip a coin
Nich Good point. I accuse YEOZ.
Yeoz it's totally not me though ;_;
Yeoz NICH
BongoBill Nich dies.
BongoBill He was the mafia.
Nich Fuck!
BongoBill sets mode -m: room is no longer moderated
Hito Owned.
BongoBill CONGRATULATIONS TO OUR WINNER WHO ARE HITO YEOZ DIZ ZARATUSTRA
BongoBill Diz was paranoid.
10:06 BongoBill Hito was naive.
BongoBill Yeoz was sane.
BongoBill Zaratustra was insane.
Yeoz can we have a moment of silence for our deaths cop bros
Yeoz dead*
BongoBill sets user mode -v: Hito may no longer speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets user mode -v: Nich may no longer speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets user mode -v: Yeoz may no longer speak if the room is moderated
Hito I love the grammar there, Bongo.
Zaratustra You just keep going down.
BongoBill The next five people to say "IN" will play in the next round.
Nich IN
dtsund IN
BongoBill changes room topic to: FIVE-MAN MARFIA
Hito IN
Yeoz my logic was totally broken
Diz IN
Yeoz i think zara is away
Yeoz so i'll go
Yeoz IN
Nich If I hadn't switched my vote, would I have won?
10:07 <- Zaratustra has left 5mm
BongoBill sets user mode +v: Diz may now speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets user mode +v: dtsund may now speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets user mode +v: Hito may now speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets user mode +v: Nich may now speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets user mode +v: Yeoz may now speak if the room is moderated
Diz Zara!
BongoBill sets mode +m: room is now moderated
BongoBill dtsund, are you familiar with the rules?

Yeoz Nich: i probably wouldve stewed over it for a few more minutes
dtsund Uh, I think so.
Nich Cold feet ere were my weakness.
dtsund Five people, four are inspectors.
-> fbm has joined 5mm
BongoBill The game starts on Night 0, during which the four cops may make investigations. On subsequent nights, the mafia may also kill.
<- fbm has disconnected (Quit: Client Exited)
dtsund One always gets the truth, one always gets falsehoods...
10:08 dtsund One always gets innocent, and one always gets guilty.
dtsund How do I get my role?
BongoBill That's right.
BongoBill I will send it to you. I assume everybody's ready.
Hito I am.
Nich Ready.
Yeoz wait
dtsund Yep
Yeoz lemme restart mirc
Diz Ja.
Yeoz brb in a sec
Yeoz changes nick to Yeoz-away-
BongoBill We'll wait for Yeoz.
Yeoz-away- changes nick to Yeoz
BongoBill Now ready?
Yeoz back
Yeoz ready.
10:09 -> fbm has joined 5mm
BongoBill changes room topic to: NIGHT 0
BongoBill fbm, you can't talk right now; the channel is muted so that only players may speak.
10:10 dtsund I'm sure you'll be in the in crowd eventually, fbm. We have faith in you!
Yeoz i'll sit out after this game so that you TTs can play :3
10:11 BongoBill changes room topic to: DAY 1
Yeoz I see hito as guilty.
Diz dstund is innocent as far as I know.
Nich I found dtsund to be innocent.
BongoBill To cast a vote for someone, say their name in ALL CAPS.
dtsund Funny, Diz: I found you to be guilty.
Hito I see Nich as guilty. Yeoz must be insane.
Yeoz i'm either sane, paranoid, or insane.
dtsund I can't be naive...
Nich I accuse DIZ.
BongoBill The first to get to three votes will die. You may retract your vote. This game is in real-time.
dtsund Let me se.
BongoBill Also, dtsund and fbm, since you missed it earlier: private communications are verboten.
dtsund s/se/see
BongoBill (Except to me, of course.)
10:12 Hito Yeoz, take a step back. We have three different people coming up as guilty.
dtsund Hm.
Nich Yeoz is either insane or paranoid.
dtsund Or Mafia.
Nich Well, yeah.
Nich Funny thing, though
Nich That was my line last game
Hito Hm.
Diz What was that "s/se/see" dstund? Are you trying to create some secret code here?
Nich I accuse DTSUND
10:13 Hito I think he was correcting his error.
Diz Ah.
dtsund No, that's just nerdy way of saying replace se with see.
dtsund Like, exceptionally nerdy.
dtsund Anyway, from my perspective:
Diz Of the left-brained variety, yes.
10:14 dtsund In all likelihood, the paranoid person inspected someone innocent.
Yeoz it has to be one of the three people who said someone was guilty.
Hito Nich isn't guilty. I could be paranoid.
Hito At least, I doubt his guilt.
Nich Wouldn't you be either naive or sane?
Nich Paranoid see everyone as guilty.
Diz So does insane, right?
Yeoz so it has to be either me, hito, or, dtstund
Nich Insane sees the opposite of the truth.
10:15 dtsund dtsund's head is spinning
Nich So I know Hito isn't insane.
Hito My head is spinning.
dtsund I... kind of think Nich and Dizzy are both innocent.
Hito Damn, I'm not even drunk yet. I'm quite certain of Nich's innocence.
Diz Well of course dstund, we found you to be innocent.
Yeoz wait nevermind my logic is flawed
Hito I accuse DIZ.
10:16 Nich Who checked Dizzy?
dtsund I almost feel like I can prove my own innocence with this information.
dtsund I did.
Diz Why Hito?
dtsund Suppose I'm guilty. Then Nich and Dizzy are paranoid and naive.
10:17 Nich You mean insane and naive.
Nich If either of us were paranoid, we'd see you as guilty.
dtsund AH, yes.
Yeoz can we go over again who saw what?
Hito Well, dtsund saw you as guilty. I check someone I'm very certain is innocent and he came up as guilty. Yeoz saw me as guilty and I'm quite certain that is also wrong. Not all three of us can be guilty.
Nich I saw dtsund as innocent.
dtsund I saw Dizzy as guilty.
Yeoz i saw hito as guilty
Diz I saw dtsund as innocent.
10:18 dtsund Anyway, suppose I'm guilty. Then Nich and Dizzy are insane and naive.
Hito And dtsund is the only one who has come up innocent so far.
Nich What did Hito see?
Nich Oh, right, me as guilty.
Hito I saw Nich as guilty.
Nich So... you're paranoid or insane.
dtsund Then one of me, Hito, and Yeoz is the real inspector. But since all of them inspected and found guilty results, not on me either, it follows that I can't be Mafia as otherwise one of them would have gotten innocent!
Nich Dizzy and I could still be insane and naive if you were paranoid.
10:19 dtsund QED!
dtsund BOOYA
BongoBill Qed and Booya aren't playing.
Hito What is QED?
Yeoz Q.E.D.
BongoBill Quod Erat Demonstratum
dtsund Ninja'd
Yeoz BongoBill is smarter than me
Diz Screw Latin.
Nich In that case, I accuse DIZ.
Diz I don't even get why.
dtsund Any particular reason?
Hito My vote stands for DIZ.
BongoBill Current votes: Nich for Diz, Hito for Diz.
10:20 BongoBill Unless I've missed any.
dtsund I'm interested in looking through the results again.
dtsund Hm...
Nich Because my strategy last game was to tell everyone they were innocent so they'd be on my side.
dtsund So, I've proved my own innocence.
Nich Now, I'm not saying Diz is following my strategy, because I lost.
dtsund Let's see if we can get any more information from this logic puzzle.
Hito Nich: Guilty. Hito: Guilty. Diz: Guilty. dtsund: Innocent.
Hito That's what we have to go on.
10:21 Hito A minimum of two of these things are incorrect.
Nich And we know from dtsund's QED that he really is innocent.
dtsund That's... a little incomplete.
Hito It is. What'd Yeoz find?
Diz At 3 of us are guilty, including you Nich.
Diz *least
Yeoz unless that was a really really clever bluff from dtsund
Yeoz i wish i were smart enough to unravel logic puzzles
10:22 Hito This reminds me of those awful extra credit assignments in middle school math class...
dtsund Can... can everyone post their results a third (fourth?) time?
Diz Yeoz, I have a whole book of them, and never opened the first page.
Nich I saw dstund as innocent.
dtsund I found Dizzy to be guilty.
Hito Nich as guilty.
Diz I saw dtsund as innocent.
Yeoz i saw hito as guilty
10:23 Nich So if dstund is innocent, then either Diz or I has to be sane.
dtsund Wait... have I really proved my own innocence?
Hito Pretty much.
dtsund One of Nich or Dizzy could be Mafia, rather than my assumption.
Nich And the other one has to be either naive or the mafia.
Nich Right, that's what I'm getting at.
dtsund Of course, one is naive...
Nich That's why I accused Dizzy.
Hito I don't think Nich is mafia.
Nich Either he's naive or the mafia.
10:24 Nich Or, sane or the mafia.
Nich In which case I kinda screwed us, but at least we'll know for sure tomorrow.
Diz I'm putting just as much stock in my innocent as either Nich or Hito.
dtsund Wait, wait, If I were Mafia than neither Dizzy nor Nich could be, of course, haha.
dtsund I guess I did prove my innocence.
dtsund *facepalm*
Nich Anyway, I'm still accusing DIZ, right? That's my vote.
10:25 Hito I'm still accusing DIZ as well.
Diz I'll accuse you NICH.
BongoBill Diz, dtsund, and Yeoz have yet to vote. Nich has voted for Diz. Hito has voted for Diz.
dtsund Yeah, I know.
Yeoz what happens if there's a deadlock?
dtsund I'm still thinking!
Nich Can't be. 3 to 2.
BongoBill There are five players. Somebody has to reach 3.
dtsund Sudden Death.
dtsund Or 2-2-1...
Diz It'll work just the same in any case for my vote.
Yeoz yeah 2-2-1
Yeoz what happens then
Hito A meteor falls on someone.
Nich That 1 player better think REAL HARD.
10:26 Diz sees meteor hits Hito.
BongoBill If it stays at 2-2-1, then the other four players must bully the one into picking a side so the game can continue.
BongoBill Or any three bullying any two.
BongoBill Or whatever.
BongoBill You must reach 3.
10:27 Yeoz eh
Hito Diz, why are you accusing Nich?
dtsund Okay, I think I've proved Dizzy's innocence too.
Yeoz whats the worst that could happen if DIZ is innocent and I'm the deciding vote to lynch him
dtsund Suppose Dizzy were guilty.
Diz Because he's accusing me Hito, even though he's just as guilty and got the same results.
BongoBill I'm counting that as a vote.
Yeoz BongoBill: that wasnt a vote
Yeoz NOoooo
Yeoz noo
dtsund This forces Nich to be the naive cop...
Yeoz not a vote
BongoBill Okay, I'm not counting that as a vote.
10:28 Yeoz i'm just going to force myself to say Dizzy like the o thers
Nich Why? I can't be sane?
BongoBill Just say Diz.
dtsund Wait
dtsund Hm...
Diz That's why my name is like that.
Hito dtsund
dtsund Yes?
Diz It's *convinient*.
Hito Why do you think you've proven Diz's innocence as well?
BongoBill "convenient"
Diz SO WHAT
10:29 Nich You can't accuse both So and What, dude.
dtsund I was going through it just then.
Nich One at a time.
dtsund So, anyway, suppose Dizzy were guilty.
Diz The battle for the English languages lies not here but in the streets Bill. Take your cause there!
dtsund This forces Nich to be the naive cop.
Nich How does that follow?
BongoBill Current votes: Nich for Diz, Hito for Diz, Diz for Nich, dtsund for nobody, Yeoz for nobody.
dtsund Because you were the only other one to get an innocent result.
Nich You saw Diz as guilty, right?
dtsund I did.
Yeoz wait what
dtsund I'm going to use that.
10:30 Nich Then I could be sane and you could be paranoid.
dtsund Let me start over.
Diz Ssh! Everyone quiet!
dtsund Suppose Dizzy were guilty. Of the four remaining people, only one got an innocent result, so that one person must be the naive cop.
dtsund Hence, Nich.
dtsund Now...
10:31 dtsund (let me recapture my train of thought, I had this figured out a moment ago)
Nich Ah, I see. Because the insane one, who didn't look at Dizzy, would have gotten innocent as well.
dtsund *scrolls back up to look at votes*
Hito Right. So I'm paranoid because you came up as guilty, Nich.
Nich Or insane?
10:32 Hito Right.
Nich Either you or Yeoz could be paranoid/insane.
Nich Or, worse, sane.
Hito Yeoz is remaining awfully quiet.
dtsund So, anyway, among me, Hito, and Yeoz, one would be paranoid, one would be sane, and one would be insane.
Yeoz i don't know what to say
Yeoz this is all above my head
Diz It's above mine, bro.
10:33 Nich You looked at Dizzy and saw him guilty. So you're either paranoid or insane, dtsund.
Yeoz dtsund seems to be brains here, so i'm voting for whoever dtsund votes for
Nich That means either Yeoz or Hito is the sane one.
Hito Yeoz is sane.
dtsund ...no.
Yeoz i saw hito as guilty though so i can't be sane
Yeoz unless hito is the mafia
10:34 Hito Well, shit. If neither me nor Yeoz is sane, one of you is a liar.
dtsund We're working under the assumption, for this logical argument, that Dizzy is guilty, and moving toward proof by contradiction.
Nich Oh, you're right.
dtsund Anyway, since in this scenario, Yeoz and Hito both inspected innocent people and got guilty results, this means I'm the sane inspector.
10:35 Nich Well why aren't we voting for Dizzy now?
dtsund Let me finish!
Nich NO I WANNA KILL
Yeoz lol...
dtsund That's not a player either!
Yeoz bloodlust
Hito dtsund, what was your result again?

Nich You non-TT types don't know how shitty my game is.
Diz Me as guilty.
dtsund I saw Dizzy as guilty.
10:36 dtsund So, Yeoz and Hito are insane and paranoid.
dtsund *would be, in the scenario
Hito Correct. Diz is guilty.
dtsund ...actually, I don't see the contradiction.
Diz Why am I not naive?
Nich Because I have to be.
Diz Why is that?
10:37 Nich Because if anyone else was naive, there'd have been another innocent verdict.
dtsund I started under the assumption that Diz was guilty, with the intent of proving you innocent by contradiction.
dtsund ...but I didn't find the contradiction.
dtsund Anyway, for my next trick, I'll be analyzing Nich.
Nich Alright.
dtsund *cue groans*
Diz Might as well.
Nich I found you innocent.
Yeoz applause
Hito Cool. Let's kill Diz now.
10:38 Diz slaps Hito with a trout.
dtsund Let me look at the votes again [scrolls up]
Yeoz we're cops we dont kill people, we merely send them to prison!
BongoBill Nich for Diz; Hito for Diz; Diz for Nich; dtsund for nobody; Yeoz for nobody.
Hito !hint
Diz Cops kill when necessary; when the split-second decisions matter.
Nich Yeoz: Not me. I'm Axe Cop, and I'm gonna chop Diz's head off.
BongoBill THERE ARE NO HINTS
Yeoz !bribe
Hito fail.
BongoBill YOU ATE THEM ALL
10:39 Hito Are you calling me fat? ;_;
BongoBill BRIBE ME WITH WHAT
Yeoz $5?
Yeoz is this an open negotiation? or are you kidding
BongoBill THAT'S NOT WORTH GETTING A PAYPAL ACCOUNT FOR
Yeoz $50?
BongoBill Keep talking.
Yeoz BongoBill is clearly the mafia here
Hito obv
Diz "obviously"
BongoBill Anyway, continue.
Hito Seriously though. I'm sleepy. Can we end this day?
dtsund Uhm...
Diz falls down some staris.
10:40 Diz *stairs...
Hito Cool. Are you dead now?
dtsund Nich logically works out the same as Dizzy.
Nich Dude, I TOLD YOU.
BongoBill He's not dead until a third person votes for him.
Diz No, I'm parap... help me out here Bill... I'm a life support and need health care.
dtsund No contradiction either, just requires specific arrangement of sane/etc.
BongoBill Paraplegic?
Hito dtsund, cast your vote.

Diz There we go.
10:41 Yeoz i'm going to vote for NICH here. just so that dtsund becomes the deciding vote
dtsund but i wanna keep puzzling this through
Yeoz
Diz I don't see why the pendulum swings my way though, just because Nich had me pegged from the start.
Nich Well do Yeoz then.
Nich 'cause I'm gonna laugh if there are no contradictions if Yeoz is guilty either.
Diz Nich, you just hate me. You hate my spiritual aura.
10:42 dtsund I was just looking through the logic there.
Nich I had you pegged from the start because I'm a super genius.
Hito Your name is Diz which makes me think of how awful KHII was and that's why I want you dead. It's nothing personal.
dtsund (I want to keep doing this today because I figure there's no way in heck I'm living to day 2.)
10:43 BongoBill IT WOULD BE FASTER TO END THE DAY AND THEN JOIN THE NEXT GAME, FOR GOD'S SASKE
Diz Nich thinks I'm being some trickster here like my past selves. Biased deductions!
BongoBill SAKE
dtsund Hito: I'ts not spelled DiZ
dtsund But I also want to win!
Hito You can't have you kill and eat it too.
Hito Can I temporarily change my vote to pressure dtsund into casting a vote?
Diz dtsund = House, M.D?
BongoBill You can change your vote but it's always a real vote.
10:44 Diz Even post-game he'd still be solving more puzzles.
Yeoz afk one second need to restart mirc again
Yeoz changes nick to Yeoz-away-
Yeoz-away- changes nick to Yeoz
dtsund Eh, screw it.
dtsund DIZ
Diz Dstudn...
Nich High-five.
Diz Boo.
Hito applause.
Diz yells boo.
dtsund dtsund crosses his fingers
BongoBill sets mode -m: room is no longer moderated
dtsund I... I think I bored Bongo away.
10:45 BongoBill sets user mode -v: Diz may no longer speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets user mode -v: dtsund may no longer speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets user mode -v: Hito may no longer speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets user mode -v: Nich may no longer speak if the room is moderated
Diz Great job.
Nich It took me like 10 seconds to figure that out. Nice job on taking 10 minutes.
BongoBill Diz was guilty.
Hito It works better if you start with /me dtsund
BongoBill CONGRATULATIONS TO OUR WINNER WHO ARE NICH DTSUND HITO YEOZ
dtsund BUT WHERE WAS YOUR LOGIC?
BongoBill Nich was naive. dtsund was sane. Hito was paranoid. Yeoz was insane.
BongoBill sets user mode -v: Yeoz may no longer speak if the room is moderated
Hito How DARE you accuse me of being paranoid. You're working for The Man, aren't you?
BongoBill All right. fbm wanted to play. The next four people other than fbm to say "IN" are in the third game.
10:46 Nich My logic was we had three guilty verdicts, and yours was the only one who saw you sane back. It was HUMAN logic.
Hito Are you from Black Ops?
Hito In
Diz I hope Nich is mafia next.
dtsund IN
Nich Diz, you missed it. I was mafia first.
Nich I got farther than you did!
Diz But I caused more stress.
Nich Not to me. ;D
Diz More thinking.
Hito Tricksy hobbitses...
Nich Again...
Nich Not to me.
Diz Your opinion does not matter.
Nich My logic shoots from the hip.
BongoBill fbm, Hito, dtsund are in so far.
10:47 Nich IN
Hito I knew it wasn't me because duh, Nich because he wouldn't be Mafia again.
BongoBill Yeoz? Diz? Anybody else?
Yeoz i'm out unless you need a fifth
Diz IN
Yeoz spectates
Diz I will work against Nich even if he's on my team.
BongoBill sets user mode +v: Diz may now speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets user mode +v: dtsund may now speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets user mode +v: fbm may now speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets user mode +v: Hito may now speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets user mode +v: Nich may now speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets mode +m: room is now moderated
Hito I like trying to pronounce "fbm."
fbm It's short for fanboymaster
fbm long story
Hito Kinky!
10:48 BongoBill fbm, are you familiar with the rules?
fbm I've picked them up for the most part but a refresher would be appreciated
BongoBill All right. There are four cops: Sane, Insane, Naive, and Paranoid. Sane always gets the right answer. Insane always gets the wrong answer. Naive always sees his target as innocent. Paranoid always sees his target as guilty.
10:49 fbm Got, thanks
fbm Got it*
BongoBill The fifth player is the mafia, who has to lie (or tell the truth) carefully to avoid detection. On Night 1 he gets to kill someone. The cops inspect on nights 0 and 1.
BongoBill And the roles are going out now.
10:51 Hito Er, brb (three minutes) I have to relieve myself.
dtsund A likely story!
BongoBill changes room topic to: DAY 1 | THREE-MINUTE PEE BREAK
dtsund More like he needs three minutes to concoct a good story.
dtsund amirite!
dtsund s/!/?
Nich I accuse A, S, and L.
Diz hits dtsund in the shoulder
10:53 Hito I am relieved.
Hito dtsund is guilty.
Diz You dummy.
Hito Oh shit.
Hito Did I do it wrong
Diz No.
Hito Oh.
dtsund I... inspected Diz again.
Nich fbm is innocent to my eyes.
dtsund He's innocent, or at least I think so.
fbm Inspected Nich: Guilty
dtsund *glares at Diz*
Diz I inspected Hito and found him to be GUILTY. Still! We should kill Nich and save Hito for the next round. All in favor, vote!
Nich And you, Diz?
10:54 Diz Shut up, you're going down!
Hito Lovely, Diz!
Nich Man, just for that, I am not letting you be Dinosaur Cop.
Diz I'm Raptor Cop, cooler than Dino Cop.
BongoBill changes room topic to: DAY 1
Hito is Night Man, master of the day, man.
BongoBill You can go ahead.
10:55 dtsund So, to recap:
Nich We were, thanks.
Hito Alright, that's do this.
dtsund Hito: dtsund is guilty.
dtsund dtsund: Diz is innocent.
dtsund Nich: fbm is innocent.
dtsund fbm: Nich is guilty.
dtsund Diz: Hito is guilty.
Diz sits back and lets dtsund logic crunch this.
10:56 dtsund Do... do you really want me to take half an hour on day 1 again?
Hito Nope. I'm accusing you.
Nich No. I accuse FBM.
dtsund I mean, I'm perfectly happy to do so.
fbm That's it, I'ma go with my results. I vote Nich
dtsund But I think I was boring everyone.
Hito This isn't going to work.
fbm I'm voting quick so I don't have to sit through that agian.
fbm *again
Hito Two people were found innocent which is more than we had to go on last time.
Nich Yeah, the logic can't be crunched very well because no two people inspected the same dude.
10:57 dtsund Yeah, it's all cycles.
Hito sigh.
BongoBill fbm: conventionally, to accuse someone, say their name in ALL-CAPS.
Hito DTSUND.
fbm Thanks
fbm NICH
dtsund Uh...
Hito If only because it's hard to pronounce.
dtsund *looks at votes again*
Nich FBM (as I already said)
BongoBill For instance, if you could vote for me and for some reason wanted to, you would say BONGOBILL.
dtsund *is glared at by all*
fbm How do you pronounce dtsund?

dtsund I pronounce it dee-tee-sund...
10:58 dtsund ...but I only ever need to do so in TF2.
BongoBill So let me confurm: Nich for fbm, Hito for dtsund, fbm for Nich, and nothing from dtsund and Diz.
Diz I wish your name could be less slippery to type dtsund, I don't know how many times in the past hour I typed "dstund" "dsutnd" or "dsundt"
Hito gj @ spelling
dtsund I'm used to it.
Nich I'll tell you why I'm voting for fanboy.
BongoBill ach
BongoBill confirm
Diz REALLY?
Hito Do tell, Nich.
Hito Really isn't a player.
10:59 Diz That joke is dead. I'm cooking up a new one.
fbm Because I just died in TT's mafia and he feels like kicking while I'm down.
fbm I'm onto you.
dtsund I think it's a pretty safe bet that myself and Nich are innocent, since we got the two innocent results.
Nich One, because he saw me guilty and I know I'm not. So he's either mafia, paranoid, or insane. But there were five verdicts on five players: three of those should have come up innocent, not two.
dtsund (Otherwise the sane guy would have had to get the Mafia night one)
Diz I'm with you fbm, I too tasted Nich's cruelty and would join you but you are more than likely GUILTY.
dtsund So... 75% chance.
11:00 fbm Oh crap, I'm gonna die
Hito Now you're casting suspicion my way, dtsund. That is incorrect to do.
dtsund (From your perspective anyway)
Nich Yeah.
dtsund ...who was that 'yeah' toward?
Hito Maybe it's just tourettes.
Nich The universe.
11:01 Nich No, it was to the 75% chance thing.
Hito I've decided Nich is awesome so he's innocent.
dtsund Screw it. I'm voting fbm, so I won't make this day take half an hour again.
Nich High-five.
fbm I can't really logic my way out of this can I. Kurse all SeeDs
Hito I think you're both wrong.
dtsund (at least, it won't be *my* fault)
Hito But okay.
Hito FBM
Hito Die please.
11:02 BongoBill All-caps!
Diz Wait what?
Hito (I'm sorry)
Diz Guys, why the rush?
dtsund FBM
BongoBill sets user mode -v: fbm may no longer speak if the room is moderated
Diz *I* have yet to process this case!
Hito fbm isn't doing anything to defend himself.
BongoBill changes room topic to: NIGHT 1
BongoBill I need actions from all cops and mafiae.
BongoBill (He was innocent)
11:03 Hito We ready?
11:04 BongoBill sets user mode -v: Hito may no longer speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill Hito dies.
BongoBill changes room topic to: DAY 2
Nich I'm either sane or naive, clearly.
BongoBill It takes two votes to kill someone. Today is the last day.
Nich (Or Mafia.)
dtsund Crap, I inspected Hito.
Nich I inspected Dizzy and found him to be innocent.
Diz I investigated you, dtsund, and found you to be clean as an Amish's... you know.
dtsund I found Hito to be guilty, though...
11:05 Nich So you're paranoid or insane.
Diz Good, I found him to be guilty too.
Nich So... both of you are paranoid or insane.
dtsund Wait
Diz We're developing commonalities, maybe a relationship will be possible.
Nich What were your night 1 results again?
dtsund Since I got a different result for Hito and Nich, this means they had to be of different alignment.
dtsund Wait, duh
dtsund I inspected Dizzy night 1
11:06 dtsund So, sub Diz for Nich
Nich Oh yeah? I must be naive then.
Nich I vote DIZ.
dtsund DIZ
Diz Fuck you Nich, not this time!
Diz NICH
Diz I will ignite a bus full of children if this happens.
BongoBill sets user mode -v: Diz may no longer speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets user mode -v: dtsund may no longer speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets user mode -v: Nich may no longer speak if the room is moderated
BongoBill sets mode -m: room is no longer moderated
11:07 BongoBill Diz was innocent.
BongoBill CONGRATULATION TO OUR WINNER WHO AM DTSUND
Nich Noooo!
dtsund BWAHAHAHA
Nich DIZ
Nich PARTICIPATE
BongoBill fbm was paranoid.
BongoBill Hito was sane.
Diz Nich... I'm... sorry.
BongoBill Nich was naive.
BongoBill Diz was insane.
Hito Thanks, guys.
Hito You see what you did?
Diz See? I wasn't mentally capable.
fbm Well, that was fun
Hito I knew it was dtsund.
Hito smrt.
dtsund I knew Hito was the real inspector from day 1.
Nich I was sane all along... ;_;
Nich No, I was one.
Nich Wait
11:08 Nich You're right
Nich Damn
Diz I wish you guys would wait though.
dtsund That's why I killed him.
BongoBill I'm getting kind of tired of running these games. Would somebody who understands IRC care to volunteer to be GM?
Nich Bongo, I'll run one.
Nich I know IRC.
BongoBill changes room topic to: FIVE-MAN MAFIA
BongoBill sets user mode +o: Nich is now a room operator
Nich Alright, if you're in, say IN. First five.
fbm Am I still in? I'm up for another game
Diz IN!
fbm IN
Nich sets user mode -o: BongoBill is no longer a room operator
Hito Out.
BongoBill You understood the conventions I set up, right? Voice all players, mute the channel when the game is in session.
BongoBill I'm out.
Nich Yeah, I got it.
11:09 <- BongoBill has left 5mm (Good luck, my sons.)
dtsund in
Nich sets user mode +v: Diz may now speak if the room is moderated
Nich sets user mode +v: fbm may now speak if the room is moderated
Nich sets user mode +v: dtsund may now speak if the room is moderated
Hito Eh, more TV time. Later.
Yeoz D: with hito and bongo both out there arent enough people
fbm IN
<- Hito has left 5mm
fbm Crap
Nich Yeoz?
dtsund Hrm.
Nich We can find one more
Yeoz i can be IN
Diz I think third time will be a charm. I will get the rule set now!
Nich sets user mode +v: Yeoz may now speak if the room is moderated
11:10 -> Mazian has joined 5mm
Mazian Five millimeters? What's *that* supposed to mean?
Nich sets user mode +v: Mazian may now speak if the room is moderated
Nich You know the setup?
11:11 Mazian Fill me in on the IRC variant.
dtsund Five people.
dtsund One is Mafia, others are inspectors.
dtsund But!
Nich One mafioso, four cops. Each cop is either Sane (gets the right verdict)
Nich Hey you
Nich sets mode +m: room is now moderated
Nich sets user mode -v: dtsund may no longer speak if the room is moderated
Nich As I was saying.
Mazian Heh.
11:12 Nich Each cop is either Sane (gets the right verdict), Insane (gets the wrong verdict), Paranoid (always gets guilty) or Naive (always gets innocent). No cop knows which one he is.
Mazian Excellent.
Nich Game starts at night 0 where all cops can inspect someone but the mafioso cannot act. Then we proceed to day 1 and it goes as you can imagine.
11:13 Mazian Check.
11:14 Nich I will now assign roles.
Nich sets user mode +v: dtsund may now speak if the room is moderated
11:15 Nich sets user mode -v: Diz may no longer speak if the room is moderated
Nich sets user mode -v: dtsund may no longer speak if the room is moderated
Nich sets user mode -v: fbm may no longer speak if the room is moderated
Nich sets user mode -v: Mazian may no longer speak if the room is moderated
Nich sets user mode -v: Yeoz may no longer speak if the room is moderated
Nich Shoulda done that first I guess.
11:16 Nich changes room topic to: NIGHT 0
11:17 Nich changes room topic to: DAY 1
Nich sets user mode +v: Diz may now speak if the room is moderated
Nich sets user mode +v: dtsund may now speak if the room is moderated
Nich sets user mode +v: fbm may now speak if the room is moderated
Nich sets user mode +v: Mazian may now speak if the room is moderated
Nich sets user mode +v: Yeoz may now speak if the room is moderated
Nich Go.
Yeoz i saw dtsund as guilty
11:18 Mazian I say we lynch Brickroad.
fbm dtsund: guilty

Diz fbm, you're clean boy.
Mazian dtsund: innocent.

Mazian I like how we all assume he's suspicious.
fbm Mazian, until thursday it is but a distant dream
dtsund Aargh
dtsund Was posting on TT
dtsund Anyway...
Nich Fool!
11:19 Diz Slacking on slacking, dtsund?

dtsund I saw Diz as Innocent.
fbm I feel like going with my gut again.
Diz You keep investigating my ass.
dtsund (Why break a good trend?)
fbm Let's get this rolling.
fbm DTSUND
11:20 Diz Let's lay it out nice and neat first.
dtsund And yeah... why did three of you inspect me right off the bat?
Mazian Weeeeeeell, I'm not paranoid, but that still gives me a 2/3 chance of being wrong.
dtsund Well, we did have three people inspect one person, at least.
Mazian dtsund: Because math majors are inherently suspicious.

dtsund It might, possibly, be logic time!
11:21 fbm dtsund, because you were the first name I thought of.

Diz Yeoz: dstund guilty; Mazian: dtsund, innocent; fbm, dtsund, guilty; Diz, fbm, clean... am I missing anyone?
Mazian That's five.
Diz You can count!
Diz ICE BURN!
Diz raises hand for a high five.
11:22 Mazian Well, yeah, I'm _not_ a math major.
dtsund So... let's suppose I'm guilty.
Nich I think they already are, dude.
fbm I'm fine with that. Game over
dtsund Well, duh.
dtsund I'm trying to work through logic here!
Mazian Weren't you just gloating a few minutes ago about how you used logic to escape justice last time?
Diz Mazian would have to be insane? Fbm and Yeoz either naive or sane?
11:23 Yeoz if dtsund is innocent ... fbm and i would have to be one of (insane/paranoid/mafia) and Mazian would be one of (naive/sane/mafia)
Yeoz if dtsund is guilty ... fbm and i would have to be one of (sane/paranoid) and Mazian would be one of (naive/insane)
dtsund If I'm guilty, this means that Mazian must be naive.
Mazian It's been argued.
dtsund Diz would have to be insane.
11:24 dtsund Yeoz and fbm would be from paranoid and sane.
dtsund (Can't do any distinguishing among them there, though)
dtsund There isn't a contradiction there, so I can't actually prove my own innocence.
Yeoz i dont see why diz would have to be insane
11:25 Yeoz in that scenario
Yeoz he could naive and mazian could be insane
dtsund Uh...
Mazian Presumably he would have to be either naive or sane.
Yeoz oh wait
dtsund Wait... I think I had the reason why a moment ago.
Yeoz hmm
Yeoz yeah i dont see it
11:26 dtsund Yeah, you're right.
dtsund *brain fart*
-> BongoBill has joined 5mm
dtsund So, anyway, I can't actually prove myself innocent with this data.
Nich Greetings, silent one.
dtsund I might be able to prove someone else, though...
dtsund Let me look at the votes again, having a known innocent would be nice.
fbm Let's murderize this sucker, I ain't got time for his logi
Diz I'm going to assume fbm is guilty. That would mean Yeoz is naive, Mazian is insane, dtsund is paranoid and I'm sane?
11:27 fbm If I'm guilty Diz can't be sane
dtsund Naturally.
11:28 Diz Oh oh... "naturally."
Diz Whatever!
Diz slams fist.
dtsund And anyway, I got an innocent result on Diz, so I couldn't be paranoid in that scenario.
Diz What would you be, naive or insane?
11:29 dtsund I'm trying to puzzle that one through.
Mazian gets out the whiteboard
Yeoz ive got this thing in excel
dtsund Well...
Mazian I like your style.
Diz Espernet should have a whiteboard-like function in the sidebar to keep all the results handy.
dtsund In that scenario, we have three people inspecting me, and one got innocent.
Diz Or mibbit or whatever this service is.
11:30 dtsund Wait
Mazian I'm going all Monty Hall Problem on these probabilities.
dtsund Duh, two people; we're assuming fbm is guilty.
fbm I'm lost
Diz I'm assuming he is because that is my result.
Nich It's a thought experiment.
11:31 Nich He's not actually assuming you're guilty yet, fbm.
Diz Not a cool thought experiment like, "What is reality?"
dtsund So, then, Yeoz must be the paranoid one.
Nich Or "How do magnets work?"
Diz That's an awesome one.
dtsund friggin' magnets.
Mazian grinds his teeth
dtsund How *do* they work
dtsund ?
fbm Suppose we could break the second law of thermodynamics via magical invisible demon
11:32 Mazian <3 magnets
dtsund Man, I can't figure out anyone else from that though.
Diz has negative charge.
Yeoz has anyone voted already?
Nich fbm's hot for DTSUND. No other votes.
11:33 Yeoz just going by a pure hunch. i like fbm as the mafia right now just because if i were a mafia hes playing exactly how i would play, which is wait for the first guilty accusation and then immediately copy it, which is what he did at the very start.
Yeoz and since he voted for someone already
Yeoz i'm just going to assume he's really guilty
Yeoz and vote for him
dtsund Hm...
Yeoz vote for FBM from me
Nich 1 (Yeoz) for FBM, 1 (fbm) for DTSUND.
11:34 fbm Man, nobody likes the fanboymaster tonight
Mazian Hmm. A good point, but we only got two guilty verdicts in, and one of them has to be paranoid. That would mean that the sane cop had to whiff *and* the insane cop had to hit the target, which is tricky.
Diz This the thinking of the last accusations from the past game, "If I played mafia, I would have done it like this..." surely dtsund can offer us some more helpful logic here!
dtsund I kind of like it because there are many possibilities for what the role assignments could be in that case, so the conditional probability is nice. On the other hand, Mazian also has a good point, and that kind of cancels it out...
11:35 dtsund Diz: Well, maybe if everyone didn't inspect me!
Diz I say work out dtsund's innocence again since he got three investigations.
dtsund On the other *other* hand...
Diz I say work out dtsund's innocence again since he got three investigations.
Yeoz if dtsund is innocent anyone could be the mafia
11:36 Diz That would put a wrench in our work here, but we haven't come to that yet.
dtsund Diz: I already said that I can't prove my innocence this time.
Nich Whereas if dtsund is guilty, only he could be the mafia! Wait...
Yeoz Nich:
Mazian I'm trying to think of how the fbw math would be rearranged by my also inspecting dtsund. I think it makes it even less likely.
Yeoz i merely mean that nothing is eliminated if dtsund is innocent
Mazian (that fbw is mafia)
11:37 dtsund If fbm is innocent, then we've narrowed down the possibilities for the Mafia, since the insane inspector found him.
Mazian How so?
dtsund So we can probably combine this with the day 2 results to get a good idea of who he is.
Yeoz oh boy! time to blindly kill someone
11:38 fbm We do that a lot don't we.
dtsund Look for one of the people who got innocent results to get guilty next.
Yeoz and, man, dtsund is so getting killed
Diz Sounds like a move a mafia would want to happen.
dtsund ???
Yeoz poor dtsund
Mazian That a vote?
11:39 Yeoz i voted for FBM already
Nich IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO ACCUSE SOMEONE! Clippy says: Use CAPS
dtsund FBM
Diz Why is the GM interrupting our *important discourse*?
Mazian needs more scrap paper
Mazian this grocery receipt isn't cutting it
fbm I should have learned that people read being quick on the trigger as being nefarious.
11:40 dtsund And on day 2, look for one of the people who got an innocent result to change to guilty, and that person probably is the insane inspector who found the perp on day 1.
Diz Does that grocery receipt list out a case of ramen noodles Mazian!?
Mazian No, sir!
Nich Votes: FBM: 2 (dtsund and Yeoz), DTSUND (fbm)
11:41 Diz Have we (besides dtsund) settled dtsund's innocence? I don't really care if he can't do it himself.
Mazian I'm cranking out a fbm idea, it'll take a moment.
Mazian Diz: Negative.
Diz Sounds like a plan then.
dtsund Diz: I have settled my innocence to my own satisfaction, of course.
11:42 dtsund I... just can't conclusively prove it to you.
11:43 Yeoz if fbm is guilty, i would have to be paranoid. diz would have to be insane.
Yeoz mazian/dtsund would ne either/or naive/sane
11:44 Yeoz but there doesnt seem to be a determination from that
Mazian Okay, if fbm is guilty, the _only_ way I can make that work is if dtsund and me are sane or naive (either way), Diz is paranoid, Yeoz is insane.
Yeoz wait what
Mazian Probability 2/(4!)=1/12.
Diz What the hell Maz, thought you hated numbers and stuff..
Mazian Check my math here: Diz saw fbm as innocent, so he has to be sane or paranoid.
Mazian Numbers are awesome!
11:45 Yeoz no
Yeoz he cant be sane
Yeoz if fbm is guilty, and diz saw fbm as innocent he can only be insane or paranoid
Mazian Wait, flipped a sign.
dtsund Heck, the reason I want to kill fbm is more because I think his known innocence will give us some nice information on day 2.
Mazian Insane or naive.
Yeoz wait fbm is innocent?
dtsund We. Do. Not. Know. This.
11:46 Yeoz oh
fbm That strategy sure has worked well in the past.
dtsund If he's guilty, of course, we win.
Yeoz if we dont win you mean
Yeoz hehe
Diz I like your sarcasm fbm.
Mazian Let me try that again. fbm guilt requires: Dizzy=(insane, naive) since he saw fbw as innocent; dtsund and myself as (sane, naive) since we came up with innocents but on other people; Yeoz as (paranoid, insane) because he came up with a guilty on someone else.
11:47 Diz Guys, I think I'm sane.
Diz Oh wait, I'm naive...?
dtsund I'm starting to wonder about my own sanity.
Nich Me too.
Mazian That leaves Yeoz as the _only_ one that could be paranoid, which in turn makes Diz the _only_ one left that could be insane. dtsund and I could fill in the other two roles interchangably.
Diz Maz, you would have to be sane then.
Yeoz Mazian: thats what i said
Mazian So, 1/12 chance of fbm being guilty. I'm not buying it.
Yeoz [02:43:30] <+Yeoz> if fbm is guilty, i would have to be paranoid. diz would have to be insane.
Yeoz [02:43:57] <+Yeoz> mazian/dtsund would ne either/or naive/sane
Yeoz [02:44:07] <+Yeoz> but there doesnt seem to be a determination from that
11:48 Yeoz hmm
Mazian Yeoz:
Diz Scratch what I said, I was looking at it through the dtsund innocence scenario.
11:49 Yeoz if you really think fbm is innocent on your 1/12 hunch i can change my vote
Yeoz or should i say 11/12
11:50 Mazian Let's put him under the klieg lights.
dtsund So... has the conversation died?
Mazian Are we looking at anyone else? You? Me?
Diz Holy smokes, I don't even see the point of testing every scenario. Individually they wouldn't yield contradictions unless taken as a whole, and we'll wave the hours away like that. Am I right here?
Yeoz theres not enough information
11:51 Yeoz so lets kill somebody to get some more information
Nich This is what happens when I'm not in the game.
fbm Just kill someone, preferrably not me.
Diz Of course Nich. Of course.
dtsund Hence, why I voted for fbm.
dtsund (That was in response to Yeoz)
Diz Fine, we should kill someone to gather more intel.
Yeoz so what are the vote counts now
Diz Who's on the chopping block?
fbm 2 for me 1 for Dtsund
11:52 Nich FBM: 2 (Yeoz, dtsund), DTSUND: 1 (fbm)
Diz FBM
Yeoz BAM
fbm FFFFFFFFFFFFfff
fbm With my last breath, I curse Zoidberg
Diz Kiss it! And now I go.
Nich sets user mode -v: fbm may no longer speak if the room is moderated
Yeoz @!#!@#!@#
Nich changes room topic to: NIGHT 1
11:53 Yeoz you should -v everyone
Yeoz until all the votes are in
Yeoz er inspections that is
Nich I'll change the topic when you can go again. Shush.
11:54 Nich sets user mode -v: Mazian may no longer speak if the room is moderated
Nich changes room topic to: DAY 2
Yeoz i saw diz as guilty, which means i'm paranoid
11:55 Diz I tested dtsund, and he's clean like Mr. Bean. (eh hee hee).
dtsund I tested Nich, and got guilty.
Diz String him!
dtsund I... guess this means I'm the crazy guy!
Yeoz uh who did the mafia kill
Diz Mazian.
Yeoz oh Mazian
Yeoz hmm
Diz Now hold the fuck up and let us process this.
11:56 Yeoz why would you test Nich o_O he's not even in the game is that even legal
Diz Dtsund.... your results, obviously.
Diz Spill it.
Diz curses that I wrote that down.
11:57 dtsund I already said!
dtsund First night, Diz is innocent.
dtsund Second night, Nich is guilty.
Yeoz Nich isnt even in the game
Yeoz wtf
dtsund *resigns*
dtsund God, that was stupid.
11:58 Yeoz voting for DTSUND here
Nich Wow, bold! I think that might count for two votes. Your ruling, Diz?
Diz Uh, no.
Diz No vote.
Diz Just what the hell happened here?
dtsund I vote for Yeoz, I guess.
Nich Sorry, could you speak up?
dtsund YEOZ
11:59 Nich Ah! Gotcha.
dtsund YEOZ!!!!111
Diz What was you result dtsund?

Diz *your
Yeoz [02:57:30] <+dtsund> Second night, Nich is guilty.
Yeoz a slip up
Yeoz that was his undoing
Diz That's legit?
Diz He seriously did that?
dtsund Yes, indeed!
Diz I'm about to vote for myself.
Diz DIZ
Yeoz lol,....
dtsund DIZ
dtsund VICTORY!
Yeoz LOL
12:00 Nich Alright, dtsund wins.
Diz I retract vote.
Nich Sorry, too late.
Diz My line came FIRST!
Yeoz lol
Yeoz i cant stop laughing
Nich Not on my screen.
dtsund I cannot believe I won that.
Yeoz this is hilarious
Diz My screen says different.
Nich sets mode -m: room is no longer moderated
BongoBill You can't trust your own placement in your own logs.
Diz If keyboards could kill...
fbm What is wrong with you Dizzy
BongoBill Lag and other effects can distort things.
BongoBill That was pretty funny.
dtsund See...
Mazian HAY GUYS WHAT'S GOING ON HERE
Nich You guys.
12:01 Nich dtsund TOLD YOU on day 1 that HE WAS GUILTY.
Diz I secretly believe... wait, OPENLY believe Mazian screwed all this up.
dtsund I was going to feign being the crazy guy, having killed Mazian (who I think was crazy)
Mazian I believe you would be correct.
dtsund I was going to say one of the still-living people was guilty.
dtsund Thus demonstrating it.
BongoBill Anyway, I vote for BRICKROAD
Nich <+dtsund> So, anyway, I can't actually prove myself innocent with this data.
12:02 dtsund But I was an idiot and sad Nich, our friggin' moderator, was the guilty person.
fbm Oh let's kill that fanboymaster guy, he be a loose canon.
Nich See, what that means is...
BongoBill "cannon"
Nich sets user mode -v: Diz may no longer speak if the room is moderated
Nich sets user mode -v: dtsund may no longer speak if the room is moderated
Nich sets user mode -v: Yeoz may no longer speak if the room is moderated
Nich Anyway, next round? Sign up if you're signing up.
Diz IN. --- Of course dtsund would fail to prove his innocence.
fbm in
Mazian tosses his hat into the ring
dtsund I think I'll stay out.
Yeoz in
dtsund Need to sleep.
dtsund If...
12:03 dtsund If someone's archiving this, they'll need to pick up from here.
Nich changes room topic to: NIGHT 0
BongoBill out
Yeoz unless bongo is playing we wont have enough
Nich Got Diz, fbm, Yeoz, Mazian.
<- BongoBill has left 5mm (nooooooo)
dtsund Yeah... I guess this is night.
Nich Later, dtsund.
dtsund Likewise!
Diz GET OUT!
12:04 dtsund I need to copy this to my text editor!
Diz (Bye.)

Brickroad
05-04-2010, 12:55 AM
So awesome.

Alpha Werewolf
05-04-2010, 08:04 AM
Finally I have a game that I can link to. I'm in it, but I won't tell you guys what I am. Note that over on that forum I play way different - because there, I'm the one who's learning and I have nothing to pass on to most of the guys.

Entertaining thing about the game, by the way: Night 1 we had 3 deaths, Night 2 we had 3 deaths, Night 3 (which just ended) we had... zero? >_>
Without further ado, observe: Duel Monsters Mafia (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=227988)!

Calorie Mate
05-04-2010, 09:39 AM
Also, I think Thing will be a new and different game with different ways to approach it. Looking for people whose behaviors change, and the ever-increasing chance to hit a Thing as the game progresses will make for a different dynamic. I'm still definitely interested in trying it out.

I don't know, everyone keeps saying noting changes in behavior will be fun to find, but...well, the problem is that you don't learn anything from your lynches. You get an Innocent, and then...you can't assume anything. So what drives the conversation enough that you'll be able to notice changes?

kaisel
05-04-2010, 10:13 AM
I don't know, everyone keeps saying noting changes in behavior will be fun to find, but...well, the problem is that you don't learn anything from your lynches. You get an Innocent, and then...you can't assume anything. So what drives the conversation enough that you'll be able to notice changes?

The thing with a uh, Thing game is that you really need a group of people who will post a lot about nothing. A game with people who post fairly often is probably going to be a lot of fun, but a game where only half or a quarter of the people post a lot, is going to be dull. It's kind of player/innocent driven more than the standard game.

Destil
05-05-2010, 08:33 PM
One of the few rules I think I'd want in the The Thing game: when you lynch a creature you learn on what turn they were infected. This would give you a good starting place to start looking at what they're saying and what changed.

Paul le Fou
05-06-2010, 01:34 AM
For what it's worth, if I run Thing it will be in much smaller groups. Like 10-15 depending on how the balance runs, up to 20. I thought the largeness of these ones kind of dragged them down a bit, and at the very least: if we don't end up liking it the games don't last as long.

A point for Thing, in my book: the people who get hit at night don't have to sit out the rest of the game and watch. There are still lynches but that's the nature of the game. In fact, getting targeted, instead of kind of sucking for the player, amps things way up for the target and gives them a new game to play. I rather like that idea. It also means that if a loud player gets targeted we don't lose as much momentum in the thread; we only actually lose one player per night unless the players hit a Thing.

Alpha Werewolf
05-06-2010, 03:16 AM
For what it's worth, if I run Thing it will be in much smaller groups. Like 10-15 depending on how the balance runs, up to 20. I thought the largeness of these ones kind of dragged them down a bit, and at the very least: if we don't end up liking it the games don't last as long.

I'd reccomend making it a small game. 12-15 sounds ideal.

VorpalEdge
05-06-2010, 07:06 PM
oh bloody hell

Garrison
05-06-2010, 07:07 PM
god fucking dammit!

ughh

Destil
05-06-2010, 07:09 PM
"Let's kill everyone who has stupid ideas" they says...

Brickroad
05-06-2010, 07:13 PM
http://osopher.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/dominoes.jpg

dtsund
05-06-2010, 08:00 PM
Hey, Brickroad, what happened to 'I'll be on IRC for Mafia Thursday night?'