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Merus
03-01-2010, 03:45 AM
Sicily, not as long ago as you may think

Ninteen colonists are about to arrive at their new home, a seaside town established by the Sicily Rail Authority. The town has been established to, eventually, provide a home for the Tuscan rail crews the Sicilian government has turned to as they finally connect the far reaches of Sicily to the world. The colonists were recruited from all over Italy, and nearly everyone was excited to be a part of this new society.

Nearly everyone.

The Tuscan crews replaced hundreds of sort-of-hard-working Sicilians, who were nearly all in the pocket of the Cosa Nostra. The Mafia made millions skimming off construction contracts; the Rail Authority's use of outside labor, non-Sicilian labor, disrespected the Mafia and invited others to follow suit in employing non-corrupt crews and ignoring pointed threats and demands for protection money. The Mafia had to send a message, and its message was going to take the form of a fledgling seaside colony, the streets running red with blood.

The train lurches to a sudden stop, two hundred feet from the station; the driver, and five guards, have all been shot, at the same time. There are six among you that wish you harm; six among you that have forced you to lug all your posessions two hundred feet along a dirty trail. Someone will pay.

Players:

Alive

Brickroad
Dizzy (replaced Alice)
Garrison
Guesty
LilSpriteX
PapillonReel
Paul le Fou

Dead

Umby - lynched on Day 1, a Citizen
kaisel - whacked on Night 1
Traumadore - lynched on Day 2, a Citizen
Eddie - whacked on Night 2
shivam (replaced Silent Noise on night 1) - attacked on Night 2
Tock - lynched on Day 3, Mafia
Mr. J - whacked on Night 3
BodhiTraveler - attacked on Night 3
SuperRube - lynched on Day 4, a Citizen
spineshark - attacked on Night 4
gamin - lynched on Day 5, Mafia
Destil - attacked on Night 5


Roles:

6 Mafia
2 Angels
1 Inspector
1 Vigilante
1 Oracle
8 Citizens

Votes:

Day 1 | 1 (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=693983&postcount=176) | 2 (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=694848&postcount=230)
Day 2 (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=697803&postcount=295)
Day 3 (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=703034&postcount=610) | 1 (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=705745&postcount=729)
Day 4 (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=710408&postcount=882)

Rules:

We start with the day phase. During the day phase, no players may communicate with one another about the game except in this thread. No private messages, no IM, no talking about it in real life (if some players live close enough to one another for this to be possible), nothing but this thread. Discussion in this thread, however, is permitted at any time during the day phase. Editing your posts is forbidden, so everything you say will be a matter of public record.

Additionally, during the day, players may make accusations against other players. To make it clear whether you are doing so, please use the following phrase, bolded:

I accuse Merus.

Accusations are not set in stone once made, and may be changed at any time. Newer accusations supersede older ones.

You may, from day 2 onwards, choose to accuse no-one and move directly to the night phase; you may do so by saying:

I accuse no-one.

You may not move directly to night phase on the first day; tensions are too high.

If a majority of players all accuse the same person, that person has 24 hours to launch a defence, and 24 hours from starting the defence to convince people to change their vote. If, at the end of 24 hours, a majority of players continue to accuse them, they are lynched and ejected from the game (they are allowed a farewell post to wish others well); his or her role is made publically known, and the day ends. After the first day, if a majority of players formally accuse no-one, once 24 hours has passed since the first 'accusation', the day ends and no-one is ejected from the game.

Day will last no less than 24 hours. If a successful vote occurs within 24 hours (either to lynch or to proceed with no lynch), it will not be acted upon until 24 hours have passed. During this time, players may continue posting and change their votes if they want.

In the night phase, it is still against the rules for most players to communicate about the game outside of this thread. Additionally, posting in this thread about the game is forbidden at night. The only exception to the no communication rule is that the Mafia are allowed to communicate in their special Speakeasy, but only at night. They may do this to discuss strategy for the next day as well as decide on who to kill that night.

A summary of each role follows:

Citizen: May discuss in this thread during day; may not do anything at night.

Mafia: As part of your duties to the Cosa Nostra, each night phase, you must target one townsperson for a hit. This, along with all other night-time communication, will be done in your private Speakeasy. Your nominations need not be unanimous, but it must be a majority vote, and there must not be any dissenting votes. After 48 hours, if no consensus is reached, I will choose the name that seems most agreed on. If the hit is successful, Mafia will learn the role of the player targeted. Mafia hits may fail due to the actions of the Angels.

Vigilante: As part of your slightly unhinged revenge plan, each night phase you may nominate, via a PM to me, one player to receive justice via your shotgun. If your action is successful, you will learn the role of your target. Your target may evade justice, and live another day, if an Angel nominates them for protection.

Angel: You have the power of protection; during night phase, you may nominate, via a PM to me, a player to confer your protection on (it may be yourself). That player will be protected from any fatal actions taken by the Mafia or the Vigilante at night. Successful saves will be noted in this thread.

Inspector: As part of your responsibilities to your superiors back in Palermo, each night phase you may nominate one player, via a PM to me, to inspect. If that player is Mafia or the Vigilante, you will receive a guilty verdict. If they are not, you will receive an innocent verdict.

Oracle: Every night phase, you will dream of the deaths that the Mafia and Vigilante visit upon other citizens, and will learn their roles in your dream. Your dreams will arrive via PM at some point towards the end of night phase.

If a role fails to send me a submission within 48 hours, they will not act that night. If they all send me submissions early, night will end early. Once night ends, day will begin again and the game will proceed.

Destil
03-01-2010, 05:37 AM
Well, that's a hell of a shocker to wake up to. Here I am, trying to get some sleep on the way to my new home, and first I wake up to screams of panic and confusion. Then, instead of a continental breakfast to start my morning, it's five corpses. I mean, it's traditional. "Welcome to your new life, here's some coffee and doughnuts."

All I can say is, if I had known I was going to be carting it up hill myself I wouldn't have packed so much junk in the first place. That and judging by everyone's reactions someone's going to hang before the night is through. God help us all if it's not one of the scumbags who started this.

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 06:08 AM
I'm curious to see whether or not Silent Noise can behave himself this time. Did you learn anything from the last game?

kaisel
03-01-2010, 06:13 AM
Six bodies, and I had to carry my luggage 200 feet? Jerks'll pay.

Garrison
03-01-2010, 06:23 AM
The train conductor? Really guys? Way to ruin a perfectly good train ride.

Paul le Fou
03-01-2010, 06:27 AM
I don't think we're looking for mafia here. I think we should be more wary of Rail Tracer.

Paul le Fou
03-01-2010, 06:28 AM
I don't think we're looking for mafia here. I think we should be more wary of Rail Tracer.

(gonna have to get used to no edits) goddamn Loki beat me to a Rail Tracer joke in the other thread. Nevermind. Just... just nevermind.

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 07:15 AM
I'm-a try to abstain from reading the other thread. One game is confusing enough as it is.

Sprite
03-01-2010, 07:59 AM
Coulda sworn my ticket was for Sicily West.

*checks ticket*

The Mafia shall pay for this.

Silent Noise
03-01-2010, 08:13 AM
I'm curious to see whether or not Silent Noise can behave himself this time. Did you learn anything from the last game?

Yes, no antics, bellyaching, or stupidity from me sir.

However I do have a request, please guys, don't kill me out of spite, I could be the inspector for all you know, and targeting anyone on the first day is a bad idea, would anyone vouch for me on this?

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 08:30 AM
Yes, no antics, bellyaching, or stupidity from me sir.

Oh?

However I do have a request, please guys, don't kill me out of spite, I could be the inspector for all you know,

Do you think begging is likely to work?

and targeting anyone on the first day is a bad idea, would anyone vouch for me on this?

Did you read the rules?

Silent Noise
03-01-2010, 08:37 AM
D'oh I just reread the rules and we have to lynch someone on the first day but from then onwards we can skip to night.

Hmm... I'll have to think about this one, 8 good honest people, 6 murderous mafia, 5 power filled protectors of justice.

It looks like everyone will have to be choosy with kills, the stakes are much higher this time, so I'm just going to wait and see.

Destil
03-01-2010, 08:48 AM
Well, we need to lynch someone today. Sate the community's blood-lust from that initial shock of the mafia betrayal.

And so, my friends, we need to talk strategy. This lynch is relay bad for us. We have an equal chance of hitting our specials as we do hitting the mafia, and the chances of hitting a citizen are more than the combined odds. I'm at a bit of an impasse on how to proceed with a mandatory first lynch.

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 08:55 AM
Okay, so here's what I'm getting at: we have to lynch someone. We don't have a choice. Furthermore, we must do this based on only a small amount of information.

However, we're in a better position here than on Day One of the previous game: some of us have played before. This doesn't tell us anything about the roles or identities of those players in this game, of course, but we can look at how they played previously and how they're likely to play again.

If we draw at random we have something like a 31.5% chance of hitting a mafioso. Since we're more likely to hit a citizen than not, the practical thing to do is identify which citizens aren't likely to be an asset to us going forward.

I propose the following people get a free pass to Day Two:

BodhiTraveler
Destil
gamin
Ironz
Mr. J
SuperRube
Tock
Traumadore

And here's my suggestion about how to spend the day:

Newbies: You guys haven't played before. You're blank slates. No baggage, no preconditions. (No Survivor blogs. Heh.) However, because you've all read the previous game, you're just as qualified as the rest of us to determine who is likely to be a citizen asset, and who isn't.

Oldbies: One of us has to die today. What were our strategies before? What worked? What didn't? What mistakes did we make? What mistakes are we not likely to make again? Of us known players, who can't help us win?

I accuse Silent Noise. But I'm willing to have my mind changed.

Eddie
03-01-2010, 08:59 AM
Eddie arrives with two gorgeous blondes under each arm, wearing a dapper suit and a goofy smile as wide as the railroad. Rumours have it that his company, LaRusic enterprises, owns this city. Rumours also spread of his lavish parties and penchant redheads.

All that is truly known of this enigmatic character is that years ago, his parents were gunned down outside a theatre for their pocket change by a mafioso. Granted, his father was carrying 20 Benjamins, and the opera was worth dying for, but that was the year World of Warcraft dropped, and had been planning to use his Dad's credit card. His parents gone, that dream was shattered.

He was forced to watch his friends become level awesome, while he could only console himself with his millions of dollars. He mysteriously retreated to the Himalayas.

Now he's back. His voice tears out of his throat with the fury of a thousand burning cigarettes, except it sounds kind of fake. Maybe he's auditioning for a metal band? Well, no worries, as he addresss you al:

"THIS IS MY CITY! THE MAFIOSO WHO INVADE MY CITY WILL LEARN TO FEAR THE NIGHT. ALSO LF ARENA PARTNER MUST HAVE 1k RESIL PST"

(I'm Batman.)


He wanders off in his dapper suit, with both blondes glued to him.

Sprite
03-01-2010, 09:05 AM
Wait, are there no defense posts this game?

Brick, why Silent Noise, in particular? He hardly had a chance to do anything last game.

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 09:08 AM
Brick, why Silent Noise, in particular? He hardly had a chance to do anything last game.

His strategy last game was to have no strategy at all, and just post whatever random whimsical things popped into his head.

When asked if he had learned anything, he said he had, but then immediately admitted he had not even read the rules.

I don't think he took the previous game seriously, and judging by what he's posted so far I don't think he's taking this one seriously either. If he's a mobster we have to kill him anyway, and if he's a citizen he's not likely to be of much help to us (unless he has a role).

Silent Noise
03-01-2010, 09:15 AM
I agree with giving the newbies a free pass, (well baring a major mess up from one of them), I am on the wait untill everyone has a post in boat, I have no comment on my accusation, but now Brick has been painted as bloodthirsty.

I for one would like Paul's opinion on all of this.

Newbies need to tell us who they think is trustworthy.

kaisel
03-01-2010, 09:20 AM
Since we're more likely to hit a citizen than not, the practical thing to do is identify which citizens aren't likely to be an asset to us going forward.


I was actually writing to say something similar, making a list of people we don't think are going to contribute much (sorry, I know this is harsh guys). Creating this list is a bit difficult though. Anyone have any suggestions?

On the other hand, I do think there might be some value in going straight for some of the good players who swiped the game from the mafia last game. If a good player is mafia, then this could get very bad, very fast. However, I think it would be best if the inspector started investigating some of these folks (sorry Brick, you said you also had a kick ass strategy as a mafioso, and since you snaked the last game from my team, I'm a little leery of having that happen again). For now though, I do not condone lynching some of our potential assets.

As for strategies that worked, the inspector lying low was real handy, so long as they don't get lynched by the mafia. And keeping the inspector alive was also crucially important, and getting at least a small voting bloc is crucial.

I don't know if I can really comment on the usefulness of others, but here are my thoughts on the oldies:

-PapillionReel was crucially important in the first game, but did make some tactical blunders. Still managed to do well despite the mistakes.
-spineshark was kind of the same as PapillionReel, and had an extraordinary bad run of luck at the end, with missing mafia almost every time.
-kaisel was on the losing team in the last game, but didn't play much as a citizen really. Contributed some to the game mainly commenting on strategies.
-Brickroad stole the game, as the inspector
-Alice didn't make much of an impression on me last game, someone help here?
-LilSpriteX was another person with good logic, though he came in on the end after play was already in the final stages. I recall some decent moves here, but that was after the mafia was backed in a corner.
-SilentNoise... died? Kinda blank-slate-y, but not reading the rules to the game is a meh move.
-Paul le Fou seemed to have pretty good instincts in the last game, and was on Brick's watch list last game, which is good enough endorsement from me.
-Eddie was kind of a blank slate since the evil, dastardly mafia offed him relatively early (sorry). His continued batman posts are amusing, and could or could not be a subtle clue to whether he's inspector (last time was a bust)

I probably forgot a name or two, but those are my basic thoughts on everyone, I want to ponder who might be a good target. I also want to say we should be suspicious of any person who's lynched who proclaims themselves a special role. No citizen should do that to avoid muddying the waters, and if you're citizen, it's probably best to just let yourself be led to the gallows.

Destil
03-01-2010, 09:20 AM
I'd be more inclined to vote for Alice than Silent Noise. For one thing all she'd have to do to clear her name is post a few times in my book (i.e. prove she'll be at least potentially useful this game). But better to get rid of someone truly silent than someone random who we just can't read. Also SN has a much higher chance of screwing up and outing himself as mafia if he is, and possibly revealing others. Why waste a lynch, and vigilante will quite possibly off SN tonight for the irony/running gag anyway?

SuperRube
03-01-2010, 09:21 AM
I propose the following people get a free pass to Day Two:

BodhiTraveler
Destil
gamin
Ironz
Mr. J
SuperRube
Tock
Traumadore


Brickroad is the best player.

I suppose it's best to come right out and say that I will not be partaking of the role play this game. I saw what happened last time.

As far as stragetrimizing goes, I'm not a numbers guy. I don't know much about percents and best odds and this that and the other thing. All I got is my gut, you see. And all this talk of "33% chance of killing a badguy" and the like don't really make a lot of difference to me. We either kill a dude and they're a pizano or they ain't. And you can never really know a man until you hang him over the edge of the volcano. (I stole that from Firefly.)

I guess what I'm getting at with my ramblings is that I believe the best way to get actual usable info from people is to back them against the wall and see how they react. And seeing as Mr. Road has already got the ball rolling, I might as well give it a little push myself:

I accuse SilentNoise.

Nothing personal, I just feel the closer we get someone to being hung, the faster we be to understanding their motivations. (We can, after all, retract our statements.)

Eddie
03-01-2010, 09:22 AM
I actually like the idea of figuring out the inspector and protecting him until such time that we can build a nice coalition of players. I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out how to 100% prove that an inspector is really an inspector.

This is the best strategy I can think of, and it would probably be better plotted as a Venn Diagram, which I'm making now (hopefully), but let's not do what I did last game.

If you're a citizen, don't pretend to be the inspector.

This might change, I'm just saying for now let's not have any pretenders for the throne.

- Eddie

Eddie
03-01-2010, 09:26 AM
Sorry, not Venn Diagram. A Flowchart.

- Eddie

Silent Noise
03-01-2010, 09:29 AM
Brick, I didn't have a plan yet because nothing had happened yet, I don't instantly have a plan, when something did happen I was dead, I need data to prepare. I have to say bravo, you caught me in your trap, which you have put in your very first post, then when I made a mistake that anyone, especially people who are already familar with the rules already could make, you accuse me for not being useful, and you said it yourself, I might have be a role! All of this makes you look very suspicious.

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 09:30 AM
Congratulations, Eddie; with three posts you have officially made it further in Mafia 2 than you did in Mafia 1. =)

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 09:32 AM
I might have be a role!

If you do, it would be stupid of you to let us lynch you, now wouldn't it?

Hey sup Lucas.

kaisel
03-01-2010, 09:35 AM
Brick, I didn't have a plan yet because nothing had happened yet, I don't instantly have a plan, when something did happen I was dead, I need data to prepare. I have to say bravo, you caught me in your trap, which you have put in your very first post, then when I made a mistake that anyone, especially people who are already familar with the rules already could make, you accuse me for not being useful, and you said it yourself, I might have be a role! All of this makes you look very suspicious.

But if you do have a role either say it, or think about how useful your role really is. The last time someone with a special role tried to argue with reason, he got lynched, and signaled the demise of the angels in the last game, don't make that mistake. Hypothetical facts mean nothing here.

Also, if you do have a role or claim to, be prepared to be tested/or treated as suspicious until verified.

And remember, if you're a citizen or special role, you still win even if you're dead. Sure, it's cold comfort, but if you want to win, think in lines of that.

Sprite
03-01-2010, 09:36 AM
I for one am a numbers man. Guts don't do a whole lot with this little data. I think we should lynch at random today.

I'm going to wait until everyone posts to make an accusation, though.

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 09:37 AM
And remember, if you're a citizen or special role, you still win even if you're dead. Sure, it's cold comfort, but if you want to win, think in lines of that.

QFT.

By the way, if you citizen-types really feel like it's best to take out the dangerous players first and go it without us, I am more than happy to have a slice of that pie. If you kill me on day one and go on to win I'm just as happy as if I'd made it to the end.

Sprite
03-01-2010, 09:37 AM
I think special roles should be careful, though. Don't "I'M AN ANGEL" at the first accusation. Wait until the winds are against you.

Eddie
03-01-2010, 09:38 AM
Congratulations, Eddie; with three posts you have officially made it further in Mafia 2 than you did in Mafia 1. =)

I'm trying not to let it go to my head tho.

My goal: Survive to Day 3. Baby steps and all that.

- Eddie

Destil
03-01-2010, 09:39 AM
Silent Noise, if you do have a role you had best not hint or joke about it with your head on the line. Come out and say so if the trial starts to go against you (or if you plan to be away for a while, we could go and lynch you before you notice). After that we'll have to both protect you and verify that you're telling the truth. Everyone could have a roll, and that doesn't stop us from needing blood tonight.

Tock
03-01-2010, 09:40 AM
I for one am a numbers man. Guts don't do a whole lot with this little data. I think we should lynch at random today.

I'm going to wait until everyone posts to make an accusation, though.

I'm a words man myself, and as this is a forum game, all we have to go on to guess at guilt or innocence are people's posts. So I'm also waiting for everyone to post before making accusations, because anyone keeping silent has either gone inactive (and is thus not an asset to the game), or has something to hide. Consider it an activity check... of death.

On that note, if you know beforehand that you're going to be afk for a while, go ahead and post such so that we don't accidentally call for a lynch mob just because you wanted to go to a concert.

Silent Noise
03-01-2010, 09:42 AM
If you do, it would be stupid of you to let us lynch you, now wouldn't it?

Hey sup Lucas.

Yes it would, but I see no reason to potentially out myself yet, I would see some votes first.

By the way, go read my posts in the first game again, presenting statistics and laying out my logic,I did mess around, I play mafia elsewhere, most of the internet this is what you do on day 1, then after the kills, we put away the gags and get to work.

kaisel
03-01-2010, 09:43 AM
I think special roles should be careful, though. Don't "I'M AN ANGEL" at the first accusation. Wait until the winds are against you.

Agreed, but keep in mind this only works in the first 24 hours, otherwise if you're not constantly watching the game, you might get lynched because of the new rules.

Tock
03-01-2010, 09:44 AM
By the way, go read my posts in the first game again, presenting statistics and laying out my logic,I did mess around, I play mafia elsewhere, most of the internet this is what you do on day 1, then after the kills, we put away the gags and get to work.

Yeah, but you've already been accused, so maybe you ought to get to work sooner than later.

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 09:48 AM
Silent Noise, I really don't care how or where else you play Mafia. Now you're playing it here, with us.

Get your head in the game and convince me you can help me win, or I have no use for you.

Destil
03-01-2010, 09:50 AM
This game is going to kill my ability to get work done. I have so much work, guys! And yet here I am...
Silent Noise: You've been accused, and I believe when Merus gets back around it'll be officially seconded. I'd like to clarify in the main thread how he's doing the accusations this time (can we float more than one at a time? Defense post? Maybe someone else can do that so I can get back to work). You play mafia a lot with this rule set, show us. What's a good defense on Day 1? We need to kill someone, so if you want your neck off the line you'd best be willing to help us pick someone else to string up and explain why in a reasonable fashion. Doing so will greatly improve my view on your ability to contribute to the citizen's cause.

Also, special roles, I want to repeat what I learned from the last game. Donít out yourself without really thinking it though. I think spineshark did a good job of it because at that point there was critical target saturation for the mafia and it let the team coordinate well (the vigilante is also very hard to fake). Pappen díReals, not so muchÖ

Sprite
03-01-2010, 09:58 AM
...during the day, players may make accusations against other players. To make it clear whether you are doing so, please use the following phrase, bolded:

I accuse Merus.

Accusations are not set in stone once made, and may be changed at any time. Newer accusations supersede older ones.

You may, from day 2 onwards, choose to accuse no-one and move directly to the night phase; you may do so by saying:

I accuse no-one.

You may not move directly to night phase on the first day; tensions are too high.

If a majority of players all accuse the same person, that person is lynched and ejected from the game (they are allowed a farewell post to wish others well); his or her role is made publically known. After the first day, if a majority of players formally accuse no-one, no-one is ejected from the game. Either way, the day ends.

Silent Noise
03-01-2010, 09:58 AM
Okay well I wanted to wait but I am the detective, ask me who to examine and I will have data for you tomorrow.

I expect someone else to claim the same.

But I have a Question for Merus, If the person who gets investigated dies that night does his role get confirmed? Because the mafia could delay us by knowing who to kill off.

Sprite
03-01-2010, 10:01 AM
Oy, weakest reveal ever, dude. If you are the Inspector then don't tell us who you're inspecting for a while (unless they're guilty). We don't want the Mafia to kill our lead.

If you're not the Inspector you'll be killed as soon as the real Inspector has some data. This should be fun!

Sprite
03-01-2010, 10:03 AM
I actually don't think you're the Inspector, by the by. It's a sure way to keep yourself alive for now, though.

Real Inspector? Lay low for now.

kaisel
03-01-2010, 10:04 AM
Oy, weakest reveal ever, dude. If you are the Inspector then don't tell us who you're inspecting for a while (unless they're guilty). We don't want the Mafia to kill our lead.

If you're not the Inspector you'll be killed as soon as the real Inspector has some data. This should be fun!

Well, we did tell him to reveal his special role, I guess. I suspect that this is going to be an interesting, inspector-less game, if Silent Noise is telling the truth.

Silent Noise
03-01-2010, 10:06 AM
I just want to know who you want, I never said I would do it,

Besides, yes it was weak, but it is because I was forced into it. I wouldn't have revealed untill I had a red tag on someone crucial.

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 10:07 AM
Well okay, it's obvious we can't kill Silent Noise now. And yeah, pretty stupid move blurting that out with only two votes against and a whole day left for discussion.

Destil
03-01-2010, 10:10 AM
Here are the rules
Thanks, LilSprite. Misread the accusation rules a bit, they're perfectly clear.

Silent Noise
03-01-2010, 10:12 AM
Nothing personal but I accuse Alice.

Just because we need the game to move.

Traumadore
03-01-2010, 10:13 AM
What a dreadful turn of events! But how exciting, it's just like in my novels! I find it funny that Eddie just warned about pretending to have a power immediately after painting himself as the most well known vigilante of our times. Does that mean he's not pretending? I just hope there weren't any mafioso around when you were standing on the table giving us your life story just then. I will pray to the lord you make it through the night, though he is not known to favor rich men.

Now I am hesitant to accuse Silent Noise as I don't think his problem is that he is actually careless with information, but that he does not anticipate how others will read in to his words. I understand this inattention to detail could limit his usefulness to the townspeople, however.

Eddie
03-01-2010, 10:14 AM
Man I had this bitchin' Flowchart all in the works and Silent Noise ruined it by saying he's the inspector.

I don't believe him.

- Eddie

Traumadore
03-01-2010, 10:15 AM
Oh wow, an entire page of posts appeared since I started writing that, i'm so slow.

God damnit Silent Noise. Either you are messing with us, or Merus is messing with us.

Destil
03-01-2010, 10:15 AM
Well okay, it's obvious we can't kill Silent Noise now. And yeah, pretty stupid move blurting that out with only two votes against and a whole day left for discussion.

Well, I didn't think we'd gain anything of value lynching Silent Noise (though he eats up an angelic shield -_-) first, anyway. So I'll get the ball rolling again:

I accuse Alice.

I didn't see a single post from her last game that did anything for the citizens, yet she stayed in the game when a more attentive player could have swapped. Indeed she barely posted at all. Silent players are a dangerous place for the mafia to hide, and contribute nothing for the good guys.

My opinion is very easy to sway here, Alice. A few thoughtful, useful posts and I'll Rescind.

Destil
03-01-2010, 10:17 AM
Oh wow, an entire page of posts appeared since I started writing that, i'm so slow.

God damnit Silent Noise. Either you are messing with us, or Merus is messing with us.

What did I say about .NET programmers? The python scrip gives the game "Brickroad: Sassy Crab Clouseau". Merus' RNG may have saddled us with Silent Noise.

Traumadore
03-01-2010, 10:19 AM
Alright, i'm prepared to accuse. Silent Noise claims to be a Mafia veteran, and yet he comes forward with a flippant non-trivial reveal the first time his name gets dropped, then fingers the second most likely first-day-lynch, Alice. Precicely after he admits that in his experience the first day is for dicking around. Well you have had your fun.

I accuse Silent Noise.

Eddie
03-01-2010, 10:20 AM
For the record: I'm not pretending to be anything. I said before the game began that I was going to be the goddamn Batman. I'm actually just a citizen, sadly.

(Fun fact: Before the games/roles got switched around due to Merus's error I was set to be a Mafioso, which would have been awesome while pretending to be Batman)

I wish I WAS the vigilante because I would be totally shooting Silent Noise tonight.

We need a litmus test (and fast!) to prove Silent Noise is actually the inspector. Any ideas? I don't think we can do it without revealing one other special role.

- Eddie

kaisel
03-01-2010, 10:22 AM
For the record: I'm not pretending to be anything. I said before the game began that I was going to be the goddamn Batman. I'm actually just a citizen, sadly.

(Fun fact: Before the games/roles got switched around due to Merus's error I was set to be a Mafioso, which would have been awesome while pretending to be Batman)

I wish I WAS the vigilante because I would be totally shooting Silent Noise tonight.

We need a litmus test (and fast!) to prove Silent Noise is actually the inspector. Any ideas? I don't think we can do it without revealing one other special role.

- Eddie

Sadly, Mr. Wayne, the only way I can see us verifying the inspector would be with a sacrificial kill. Basically the investigator investigates someone, says he's guilty/innocent, then we string the target up, and see if it matches, which in the best case gets us a mafioso, in the worst case loses us a special role.

SuperRube
03-01-2010, 10:23 AM
[quote=eddie]We need a litmus test (and fast!) to prove Silent Noise is actually the inspector. Any ideas? I don't think we can do it without revealing one other special role.[/eddie]

Well we could kill him.

SuperRube
03-01-2010, 10:28 AM
Well now I know how bad the 'no edits' rule sucks.

I guess I'll take this double post as an opportunity to post something a bit more serious.

After a bit of thought I'm going to retract my accusation of Mr. Noise. I figgure he's one of three things here:

A coward;
A mafiaman;
Or (Most likely) not too bright

Either way, my gut is totally telling me that it's way too damn early to axe the inspector on a hunch.

Eddie
03-01-2010, 10:28 AM
Okay, here's the best plan o' action I can think of:

We let Silent Noise (grudgingly) survive. We tell him someone specific to investigate, and he reports their innocent/guilt the next day.

Meanwhile, if you are REALLY the inspector, investigate the same people, and reveal yourself once Silent Noise gets it wrong. A quick lynching will reveal the truth.

IF Silent Noise isn't the inspector, we can then leave him alone till we can lynch him at our convenience. If he is, then we can assume to trust everyone he names until proven otherwise.

- Eddie

Traumadore
03-01-2010, 10:30 AM
I am prepared to just kill him and find out if he's lying. Or we can wait until 3 deaths later to find out he was lying. Doesn't seem like it's worth the hassle when all we get out of it is a haphazard detective.

Sprite
03-01-2010, 10:31 AM
It's only the first day and already we're going crazy.

Don't kill Silent Noise.

The real inspector should inspect Silent Noise. What you do with that information is your business, for now.

I'm also uneasy about the precedent that would be set by lynching Alice because she didn't play much last game. Stuff happens. I think we should give her a chance to get involved before we murder her.

Traumadore
03-01-2010, 10:33 AM
Meanwhile, if you are REALLY the inspector, investigate the same people, and reveal yourself once Silent Noise gets it wrong. A quick lynching will reveal the truth.


Anyone could challenge his information and sign Silent Noise's death warrant, though. Anyone. So once again, why wait until 3 more people are dead.

Silent Noise
03-01-2010, 10:33 AM
Traumadore, we have to kill someone first day here, everywhere else you are free to skip to the second day, I realise this is a bad move I'm making, but it better then going without the inspector the whole game, I was so quick to jump on to reveal because I might not be on here again within 24 hours, due to real world stuff.

SuperRube
03-01-2010, 10:34 AM
I am prepared to just kill him and find out if he's lying. Or we can wait until 3 deaths later to find out he was lying. Doesn't seem like it's worth the hassle when all we get out of it is a haphazard detective.

Well yeah but I'm willing to give him the benifit of the doubt at the moment. I mean, Dizzy -fucking Dizzy- of all people ended up being super awesome last game.

And besides, if we can prove that Noise is lying we can lynch him so hard. It'll be a stupid easy decision because it's essentially a free turn for us. Right now it's just a crap shoot that doesn't work out to well for us if we're wrong.

Destil
03-01-2010, 10:36 AM
I'm also uneasy about the precedent that would be set by lynching Alice because she didn't play much last game. Stuff happens. I think we should give her a chance to get involved before we murder her.I agree. Like I said: a few posts and she's in the clear from me. That's all it'll take.

Traumadore
03-01-2010, 10:36 AM
Alright, Lilsprite and SuperRube, you win. I will retract my accusation of Silent Noise. I guess it's just frustrating when things go lopsided!

spineshark
03-01-2010, 10:39 AM
Damn! I get some sleep and there's already a ton of posts. Naturally, at least a couple reflect my current views.
Get your head in the game and convince me you can help me win, or I have no use for you.
I don't believe him.

Silent Noise
03-01-2010, 10:39 AM
I agree. Like I said: a few posts and she's in the clear from me. That's all it'll take.

Same here Alice.

Eddie
03-01-2010, 10:45 AM
Anyone could challenge his information and sign Silent Noise's death warrant, though. Anyone. So once again, why wait until 3 more people are dead.

I should clarify that this plan revolves around the citizens picking the inspector targets for guilt/innocence. If we say "Investigate Brickroad" then the REAL inspector does just that, and reports his findings. We do this EVERY DAY until someone challenges that inspection (which only the REAL detective could successfully do).

We lynch the person Who Silent Noise says is guilty/innocent that this brand new 'inspector' says isn't. Whoever is wrong is therefore Mafioso. We're therefore in a win/win situation.

If Silent Noise is right, we can continue assuming he's the inspector and keep having him inspect targets of OUR choosing.

If Silent Noise is wrong, we can still trust every inspection he's made! The real inspector would have called him on it earlier. We therefore can grow a coalition even without actually knowing if Silent Noise is telling the truth or not.

- Eddie

Tock
03-01-2010, 10:46 AM
I'm also uneasy about the precedent that would be set by lynching Alice because she didn't play much last game. Stuff happens. I think we should give her a chance to get involved before we murder her.

My proposal: everybody should get at least 24 hours to make an activity post, given different time zones, personal schedules, etc., before we lynch someone due to inactivity. I'm open to extending this deadline some--since this is the first day, people who are late to check TT may not yet know there's a mafia game afoot. After the first day, though I expect more vigilance out of people, unless (as I said before) you give us a good faith heads-up.

People who have not yet posted:
Alice
BodhiTraveler
gamin
Guesty
Mr. J
PapillonReel
Umby

Italics indicate players identified on Brick's "don't lynch the newbies" list, if you agree with him on that point.

Eddie
03-01-2010, 10:46 AM
Sorry, this first paragraph should read:

I should clarify that this plan revolves around the citizens picking the inspector targets for guilt/innocence. If we say "Investigate Brickroad" then the REAL inspector does just that, and reports his findings if they're different from what Silent Noise says. We do this EVERY DAY until someone challenges that inspection (which only the REAL detective could successfully do).

SuperRube
03-01-2010, 10:49 AM
I am so glad this game started on my day off this week so I can feel free to just "F5" until my computer explodes.

Also: Eddie, I wanted to mention you're proving to be really good at this whole "Batman" shtick. Almost too good.

And Tock, you spelled PapsmearFeels name wrong. :(

Tock
03-01-2010, 10:51 AM
Alas, no edits. Sorry, PapparapTrill.

Destil
03-01-2010, 10:51 AM
With a plan like that, though, the mafia could take control of the game with a fake inspector the second we point silent noise (who I assume isn't telling the truth, but not lynching the inspector is worth going against my gut for the moment) at someone and he guesses wrong...

Destil
03-01-2010, 11:02 AM
Note that I also don't have a better plan at the moment, and anything that turns silent noise into a magic 8 ball instead of me having to attempt to parse his babble is an improvement. We'd hopefully have the real inspector still if that happens.

Eddie
03-01-2010, 11:09 AM
With a plan like that, though, the mafia could take control of the game with a fake inspector the second we point silent noise (who I assume isn't telling the truth, but not lynching the inspector is worth going against my gut for the moment) at someone and he guesses wrong...

This plan revolves around one of two possibilities:

1) Silent Noise is actually the inspector.
2) Silent Noise is mafioso.

The only way the Mafia could put up a 'fake' inspector is if:

a) Silent Noise is actually innocent but NOT the inspector and
b) Silent Noise declares someone innocent/guilty and a mafioso calls him on it, and the mafioso turns out to be right.

If a) is the case and we decide to go with this plan Silent Noise should immediately retract his claim to the inspector. Otherwise, he is purposefully and maliciously hurting the citizen's chances.

- Eddie

SuperRube
03-01-2010, 11:15 AM
Two things:

1) I think Big Ed's plan is officially The Best and is totally what we should follow for now.

2) We have so many more posts then the West Side thread. We are obviously winning.

All that's left is to find someone else to accuse. I've not go leads and I'm way too week willed to just name someone at random, however. :|

kaisel
03-01-2010, 11:28 AM
Two things:

1) I think Big Ed's plan is officially The Best and is totally what we should follow for now.

Only problem here is that this strategy is fairly easy to counter: the mafia just kills the target of the investigation every time. Or they kill Silent Noise, unless the angels defend him, I s'pose.


2) We have so many more posts then the West Side thread. We are obviously winning.

All that's left is to find someone else to accuse. I've not go leads and I'm way too week willed to just name someone at random, however. :|

I think we're winning in the terrible move category at any rate. I suppose if Titans Mafia West has exposed their investigator as well, then we're winning.

Traumadore
03-01-2010, 11:34 AM
So what order do the night actions take place in? This is important because if we choose to nominate a test subject for Silent Noise to investigate and his mafia buddies kill the person that same night, do we still get the investigation results? Or would only the oracle know the victims role? It could allow them to throw a wrench into Eddie's test.

Garrison
03-01-2010, 11:36 AM
Man, I took a short little nap and you guys have been playing like madmen. I don't really have a whole lot of strategy to talk about right now, but i do have to say one thing: Silent Noise, that has got to be one of the dumbest moves ever. I can tell you three reasons why coming out as the inspector was a mistake.

1) If you're the inspector, congratulations, you'll be eating one of the angel's protections EVERY NIGHT just so you can go about your detective work. What happens if you keep getting citizen results? Sure, you could attempt to build a bloc like in the last game, but I can guarantee you that by the third night, you'll end up with your "clean" results killed off in rapid succession. You've also got to consider that not very many people believe you at all at this point. It feels kind of repetitious to say this, but that makes you a prime candidate for the noose, especially on a day where we have little to go by.

2)If you're mafioso, you painted yourself into an impossible situation. Like I said earlier, target yadda yadda. But if for whatever reason that we DO end up believing you(which I don't by the way), you've guaranteed yourself most likely a maximum three days in the game. Keep in mind I'm new to the game here, but I would imagine the first time you show yourself with devious intent, the real inspector is going to come out IMMEDIATELY. I can guarnteee you that the real inspector(in this scenario) will almost with a doubt be checking you tonight.

3) If you're a citizen, then this was still a bad, desperate move that will likely get you lynched eventually and waste one of our angels protection in the mean time.

Now, as I've said, I'm new to the game. For all the faults I've seen in Silent Noise's reasoning, there's probably just as many in mine. I don't know where you guys sit on this, but I definitely sit more towards option 3. The only reason I say this is because I honestly doubt anyone with a special role would make such a stupid, stupid decision. Silent Noise's Inspector situation is just a cold desperate move that isn't doing anyone any favors.

Traumadore
03-01-2010, 11:42 AM
If he is a citizen then it's pretty unforgiveable. I wouldn't be heartbroken if the angels left him to his own devices tonight. It'll be like an old fashioned trial by fire. If he lives, he's a mafia and we kill him. If he gets hit, he's dead but innocent. Medieval justice!

kaisel
03-01-2010, 11:51 AM
I kind of hate bringing this up, but if you were the investigator and in Silent Noise's shoes, what would have been a good plan? Just let yourself be lynched, shifting the target? I guess there just might not be a particularly good strategy for it (though, coming from someone who's supposedly played a lot of mafia games, seems a bit of a weak move).

Eddie
03-01-2010, 11:55 AM
Only problem here is that this strategy is fairly easy to counter: the mafia just kills the target of the investigation every time. Or they kill Silent Noise, unless the angels defend him, I s'pose.

Well, we would have the angels protecting Silent Noise (reluctantly) for now. The counter strategy isn't so simple either, since the CITIZENS are naming targets, we can potentially name Mafioso ones, meaning they'd just be killing their own members (potentially).

That, or if they only killed the innocent ones, we'd be able to question why "person x' was killed by the mafia before (s)he could be investigated, but 'person y' was kept alive.

- Eddie

Eddie
03-01-2010, 11:57 AM
I can guarnteee you that the real inspector(in this scenario) will almost with a doubt be checking you tonight.

If Silent Noise really isn't the investigator, then I think investigating him is a waste of time (He's VERY likely Mafia). Let's nominate someone we'd like to see investigated instead, and 'test' Silent Noise's claim every night until he (potentially) screws up.

- Eddie

Destil
03-01-2010, 12:01 PM
I kind of hate bringing this up, but if you were the investigator and in Silent Noise's shoes, what would have been a good plan? Just let yourself be lynched, shifting the target? I guess there just might not be a particularly good strategy for it (though, coming from someone who's supposedly played a lot of mafia games, seems a bit of a weak move).

Talk. Point at someone else, and say more than a name. I'm cursing myself for naming Alice at this point, because it gave him an easy out. If I were the inspector right now in his shoes I'd try and get the noose around someone else without revealing my role. It's a fantastic move because why would the mafia bother to kill him? We're itching to. Vigilante would be an issue, of course...

Garrison
03-01-2010, 12:01 PM
My rationale is basically that the threat to Silent Noise was pretty minimal. He had two people accusing him at that point and that was about it. Now, I don't know how you guys would have done things from that point, but I know I wouldn't have accused him on the same basis as Brickroad and SuperRube. Now I'm not saying that this was a bad move on their part(it's a pretty reasonable one actually) but what I'm saying is that Silent Noise wasn't suspicious at all up until he claimed to be the inspector. You also got to remember that Brickroad was willing to be convinced otherwise.


I accuse Silent Noise. But I'm willing to have my mind changed.

Now, I KNOW if I was the inspector, I wouldn't be quaking in my boots just yet based on that. What I would do is set up an argument for it. Really, that's all any of us can do on the first day. We have nothing to go by at all at this point.

Again, I'm not talking strategy at this point, I'm just using what little logic my small mind possesses. As far as actual plans go, I don't think we really have a 100% safe option here, but I think Eddie is probably on the right track.

Traumadore
03-01-2010, 12:09 PM
Yeah, I wasn't suspicious of him either until he claimed to be the inspector. I'm done chatting for now, I'll pop in later when I mull things over and maybe feel better about an accusation.

Sprite
03-01-2010, 12:25 PM
You guys, telling the Inspector who to investigate is such a bad plan at this point in the game it's not even funny. The Inspector is the most powerful player in the game, and the voting bloc was our key to victory last time. If we tell the detective who we want to investigate tonight, and that person's innocent, the Mafia will erase the enormous gain that person would give us. The only reason revealing the findings was such a good idea last time was because we had enough trustworthy players to mount an offense.

We don't want to know who is innocent until either a) that person is accused, or b) we have a sizeable voting bloc.

Tock
03-01-2010, 12:38 PM
you guys, Mafia West just passed us up.

you guys!

kaisel
03-01-2010, 12:43 PM
You guys, telling the Inspector who to investigate is such a bad plan at this point in the game it's not even funny. The Inspector is the most powerful player in the game, and the voting bloc was our key to victory last time. If we tell the detective who we want to investigate tonight, and that person's innocent, the Mafia will erase the enormous gain that person would give us. The only reason revealing the findings was such a good idea last time was because we had enough trustworthy players to mount an offense.

We don't want to know who is innocent until either a) that person is accused, or b) we have a sizeable voting bloc.

I think the idea is that one of the angels protects Silent Noise, while the other protects the investigatee, though then the angels would have to try to run a shell game on who's protected, and who's not. This won't scale, so unless Silent Noise ends up finding a mafia member his first time, then we'll be losing ground after the first night (and that's assuming SN is the investigator).

So, I say keep quiet, if you're the real investigator, one angel protects Silent Noise (sigh) while the other does what s/he wants (any ideas on how to coordinate between the two without being obvious? Or just leave it to chance and see if they both double up on Silent Noise?). If Silent Noise hits a guilty member, we lynch the guilty, else we wait until the real investigator pops up and gives us a name.

Any flaws in the general plan? I'm sure there are more than several.

Destil
03-01-2010, 12:57 PM
Any other player in the game right now I'd trust if they claimed to be the inspector to avoid a lynch. By 'trust' I mean I trust them to be doing it for the team (i.e. their either the inspector or the mafia), not 'I trust you to find me some mafia.'

Silent Noise, though, is the one player I could see as a citizen who just does want to be killed on turn one. *sigh*

I withdraw my vote for Alice as we should figure out what we're doing with the noisy one for the moment. Hopefully she'll post more this game.

Silent Noise
03-01-2010, 01:17 PM
So I'm back for a bit, I thought about it some more and decided to retract my vote on Alice, I think it's better it's better to go at random, I was really just following the crowd and that's a bad idea.

Time to bust out my magic eight ball...

Focus your mind and ask again... Ask again later.

Oh screw you 8 ball.

Well someone just pick some body, I can't acess my RNG right now.

PapillonReel
03-01-2010, 01:30 PM
Ohh man, this thread exploded.

I won't be able to post something substantial until I get home later, but if Silent Noise is the Inspector, then whether or not he'll make it past tonight should be proof enough either way. Let's ignore him for now, especially since we can just have our Oracle keep a tab on him if he does get offed.

At the moment, I'm not really sure we should be lynching anyone... but the rules call for a day 1 kill so our hands are tied anyway. I'll think on it for a bit.

spineshark
03-01-2010, 01:35 PM
You guys, telling the Inspector who to investigate is such a bad plan at this point in the game it's not even funny. The Inspector is the most powerful player in the game, and the voting bloc was our key to victory last time. If we tell the detective who we want to investigate tonight, and that person's innocent, the Mafia will erase the enormous gain that person would give us. The only reason revealing the findings was such a good idea last time was because we had enough trustworthy players to mount an offense.

We don't want to know who is innocent until either a) that person is accused, or b) we have a sizeable voting bloc.
At the same time, I feel like there's some benefit in expecting the mob's target. But it's true that it's impossible to build up a bloc until you've got some names if one of them is going to die every night.

SuperRube
03-01-2010, 01:44 PM
At this point I'm pretty much convinced that our hands are tied until everyone manages to get a post in. Littlesprite is also right in that if we name a investigatee then the mafia can just kill them to screw us over.

FURTHERMORE if Noise picks someone at "random" and he's mafia we've got two options to test it:

1) Kill them to test his response. If it syncs up then there's a good chance we can trust hm.

2) Go with the assumption that he's lying and purposely tells us that a citizen is guilty, therefore tricking us into killing someone on our own team.

On top of all this, if we burn both of our angels to protect both Noise and the investigatee, then the mafia can just grab someone else at random and axe them. Which might actually not be that bad, seeing as it at the very least shrinks the suspect pool if nothing else.

I guess there might me more things to it then that 'cause I'm good at overlooking that kind of stuff. (Not that I have any doubts that people will be poking holes in my theories! :D )

So, yeah. I guess for now we should just let Noise stew in his own juices while we find someone better to worry about, which I don't feel we can do until more people post. On the upside, I just downloaded MegaMan10 so killing time won't be too much of an issue right now.

SuperRube
03-01-2010, 01:53 PM
Oh, almost forgot:

Obligatory "The other thread is ahead of us in posts seriously guys what the hell" comment.

Traumadore
03-01-2010, 02:19 PM
Well I've thought about it a bit more, and the major flaw with any plan to try and validate Silent Noise is simply the complexity. It would only put us ahead if the mafia played poorly, which is nearly impossible with the amount of public information required for your plan. On top of that the Angels would have to get really lucky. I still think it's going to give the mafia too much time for it to be worth it for us.

Tock
03-01-2010, 02:25 PM
At this point I'm pretty much convinced that our hands are tied until everyone manages to get a post in.

I want to clarify my thoughts from before: I don't think we should wait for everyone to post before we do anything, just before we start to nominate stringing people up for inactivity alone. I thought that would be particularly unfair to Alice, as she was nominated based on lack of participation in a completely separate game. That being said: oldbies who haven't posted yet, I'd prefer that you at least checked into the thread before we had to commit to something. I personally could use a little more group input as we sort out the Silent Noise kerfuffle.

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 02:46 PM
At this point, Silent Noise is very suspicious. Blurting out that you are the inspector is one of two things

A) He seriously was freaking out and is the inspector. This would be a terrible move though, the votes weren't stacking up fast enough for it to be an issue.

B) He is Mafioso and is lying. Losing a member on day 1 is a huge blow to the mafia and this could be a last ditch plan to save noise.

Its a tough situation and I think we should wait until tomorrow. If he is mafia he will still be alive, if he isn't mafia then he will be dead (or we could sick the angels on him).

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 02:47 PM
Also, I won't be able to post until ~this time weekdays. School and all.

Garrison
03-01-2010, 03:02 PM
In my mind, I don't want the angels to waste their protection on Silent Noise when it very much isn't a for sure thing. Honestly, I'd rather see the angels protect themselves or some of the better players like Brickroad, Eddie or Paul le Fou.

At the same time, i don't think it would be wise to string up Silent Noise for his inspector play. To be truthful, I don't see him as a threat and if by an off chance, he does end up the inspector and I eat my hat, it'd probably be slightly better to have him live.

So then it comes down to who we should vote for. Brick said something about leaving the newbies out of the equation for day 1, but then who does that leave us?

Alice, Brickroad, Eddie, Guesty, Kaisel, LilSpriteX, PapsilonRel, Paul Le Fou, Silent Noise, spineshark, and Umby.

Out of those eleven, I don't think anyone but SN seems all that suspicious. I don't really feel all that good about accusing Alice, Eddie, Guesty and Umby, mostly due to either inactivity or having little to no impact on the previous game. Brickroad innitially struck me as suspicious accusing Silent Noise nearly right off the bat, but we've seen twice now what kind of game SN plays. Pappy and spineshark haven't done anything so far this game to make feel one way or another. Kaisel, LilSpriteX and Paul Le Fou seemed highly suspicious to me as a reader in the first game. We all see how that went, with only one out of three actually being mafioso.

Does it sound like I'm talking in circles with no real point? It kind of does to me, but we need to get some conversation going on.

Traumadore
03-01-2010, 03:18 PM
Well obviously there's some really tough decisions that need to be made and nobody willing to make them. You can wait until everyone posts, but I guarantee you it isn't going to suddenly make your decision easier. Particularly the Mafia have absolutely no reason to draw attention to themselves on the first day, but they must also make themselves know so they don't get lynched on the first day. I would consider the people with the bare minimum presence most strongly, especially if they are experienced.

gamin
03-01-2010, 03:23 PM
This is getting downright crazy already. Please not that I won't be able to post until around this time most weekdays.

I have to admit, my gut reaction to everything I've been reading is that Silent Noise is an idiot or mafia in disguise.

In admitting that he's inspector, there are 3 possibilities here:

- If he's citizen pretending, he's a coward wasting the angels' protection.

- If he's the real inspector, I fear he's not going to be especially valuable as one now that he's outed. With the cat out of the bag, his power has become weakened and we have one less angel protecting us.

- If he's mafia, he can easily tell us who's innocent and guilty and we won't know who's the real Inspector until they clash on the Vigilante.

I'm uncertain on the Alice vote. I want to hear from her first before any rashness. She was largely inactive before, but maybe this game she'll step it up.

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 03:31 PM
Something that I'm curious about is brick. He was very outspoken in the first game and now he just threw out a point and is watching idly by. I'm not accusing anything and I am not hoping to infer anything, but his absence is unusual. It could just be he's busy though.

Garrison
03-01-2010, 03:35 PM
Well, as a Survivor fan myself and a reader of his blog, I can understand why he'd play differently. The most interesting returning players are usually the ones who see the strengths and weaknesses of their previous game and apply it to what's currently going on. These are usually* the players who end up making it far. Perhaps this is what he is doing? Or maybe he's just busy.


* except for a certain bearded Pirate who somehow made it to fourth.

Tock
03-01-2010, 03:40 PM
Something that I'm curious about is brick. He was very outspoken in the first game and now he just threw out a point and is watching idly by. I'm not accusing anything and I am not hoping to infer anything, but his absence is unusual. It could just be he's busy though.

This is getting a little too metagamey, but: given the time he was posting before, it's possible he's just more available during nights. Or (to be more suspicious) he lit a match, and wanted to see what would burn. I think it's smart to be wary of Brick, but at this time I'm still more interested in hearing from people who haven't posted at all (Alice, BodhiTraveler, Guesty, Umby).

Paul le Fou
03-01-2010, 03:41 PM
Jesus, SN. Way to come out swinging. I was going to suggest pointedly not lynching him the first day just to see how he'd handle actually being in the game, but I think we just found out.

I'm leaning towards "Silent Noise is an idiot and probably mafia" myself, but I guess we'll see where that takes us. The reasoning is right - that was under no circumstances a remotely good move, be he mafia or the inspector or a citizen. Especially since the real inspector(?) is hypothetically laughing his socks off somewhere right now for getting a free night's inspection. But hey, once things get real we've basically already got a free lynch target for later.]

Also like someone mentioned, even if we test him with inspections it won't matter - the mafia already know who's innocent and guilty. It's the same point I made when I thought Brick was guilty last time. The vigilante-cum-miller would be the only hitch to that.

Tock
03-01-2010, 03:42 PM
Which is not to say that people who haven't already posted shouldn't keep talking. The more that's out there, the better.

Paul le Fou
03-01-2010, 03:44 PM
I don't know who to go after, but I actually kind of like hitting quiet players. They don't contribute much after all. I'm looking at Alice, but it's true that that's unfairly based on her last-game performance. And possibly because she's first alphabetically. We'll see if she manages to show up and contribute after all.

See also: the other players who haven't posted yet, like Umby and Guesty and so on (although to a lesser extent, as I know they were active last time).

I also have asbolutely no conception of time zones and availability. It's 8:45 in the morning and my work day just started (it's 10:45 PM on the east coast). I'll have to sneak onto the computer to check the thread for the next 8 hours and might not even be able to. Brick works nights, he's probably just waking up for his shift about now. So, yeah, not going to judge on availability and participation just yet. Give it some time to stew.

Tock
03-01-2010, 03:51 PM
Which is not to say that people who have already posted shouldn't keep talking. The more that's out there, the better.

no edits, sigh

Paul's actual content-filled posts between my late corrections make me sound even more incoherent.

Destil
03-01-2010, 03:51 PM
Something that I'm curious about is brick. He was very outspoken in the first game and now he just threw out a point and is watching idly by. I'm not accusing anything and I am not hoping to infer anything, but his absence is unusual. It could just be he's busy though.I believe brick sleeps during the day and works at night right now. Much like members of certain criminal organizations...

I'll be the first to say it, I trust Brickroad about as far as I can throw him, and I'm an out of shape white-boy.

I believe his advice so far is solid and logical. But I also believe it would be terribly interesting if he found himself as a mafisto along with several new players and one or two 'effective' players from the last game. I'll also feed his ego, Brick is smart enough to take this kind ot tactic on night one without conversing with the other goons and make it work. We'd all clearly be more suspicious if he were quiet, no? I'm certainly not anywhere near accusing him at the moment, but I've got my eyes on him.

Hell, I'm new, mabye we're both mafia. Don't let your guard down, people. Think for yourselves.

Sprite
03-01-2010, 04:17 PM
I don't know who to go after, but I actually kind of like hitting quiet players. They don't contribute much after all. I'm looking at Alice, but it's true that that's unfairly based on her last-game performance. And possibly because she's first alphabetically. We'll see if she manages to show up and contribute after all.

Yeah, that's why I don't think we should swing anyone up for a little while, at least not for the first 24 hours. I don't want to sour anyone to the game because they couldn't log on in time to read all four pages and find themselves already killed.

I've used a random number generator to pick a name for accusation, but want to wait I while before I sling it out. For one thing, we just got here and I want to feel people's posts out. I've already got my eye on a couple. For another, I'm hesitant to raise such a cloud of suspicion over my head if/when the random person ends up being a citizen. For another another, there's someone I'm genuinely curious about, and I wonder if I shouldn't drop my random plan for now...

kaisel
03-01-2010, 04:22 PM
Yeah, that's why I don't think we should swing anyone up for a little while, at least not for the first 24 hours. I don't want to sour anyone to the game because they couldn't log on in time to read all four pages and find themselves already killed.

I've used a random number generator to pick a name for accusation, but want to wait I while before I sling it out. For one thing, we just got here and I want to feel people's posts out. I've already got my eye on a couple. For another, I'm hesitant to raise such a cloud of suspicion over my head if/when the random person ends up being a citizen. For another another, there's someone I'm genuinely curious about, and I wonder if I shouldn't drop my random plan for now...

Unless someone really shows their hand, I think random is a good move. Especially if you show what you're using for your random generator (if it's one you made yourself, showing source code is good), and that way we can assume that you're being truthful and it's not gamed.

As for Brickroad, I think he's just more active at night, and he has his hands in a lot of things (MMX4 LP please I'm kidding), on the other hand, he's a good asset and killing him off with no suspicion could bite us.

Guesty
03-01-2010, 04:25 PM
Oh hey, sorry I didn't post yet. I had track practice so I just got back a few hours ago.

I agree with Paul's suggestion to accuse quiet players, the only danger is that we'll possibly hit a special role. I'm a bit uneasy about losing an inspector even if it is SN...but then again, it's SN.
________
Glass Pipe Pictures (http://glasspipes.net/)

Sprite
03-01-2010, 04:26 PM
Random.org. Is that good or bad?

For another another another, there's certain... drama going down that I think needs to be resolved before we figure out what to do next.

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 04:27 PM
As I said I'm not attempting to imply anything I'm just digging around and seeing how people react. Random may be the way we need to go, but I think we need to temper it with a bit of logic.

Nerdy
03-01-2010, 04:27 PM
Nothing personal but I accuse Alice.

Just because we need the game to move.

Dear lord, I just get home from school to see I'm 4 pages behind already and already being accused? What the heck?

Garrison
03-01-2010, 04:28 PM
Don't worry Alice, I'm pretty sure both player's have retracted their votes against you.

Sprite
03-01-2010, 04:29 PM
Dear lord, I just get home from school to see I'm 4 pages behind already and already being accused? What the heck?

Only one person has accused you, and he's been insanely suspicious himself.

Sprite
03-01-2010, 04:30 PM
No, scratch that. I think Ironz is right.

Nerdy
03-01-2010, 04:37 PM
I DO promise to be much more active this game as time has been hard the past couple of weeks, but I'm fairly sure I can get into the game this time with full-on seriousness. I realize I need to keep me head on straight when it comes to this. I fully assure you all I can be trustworthy this time.

Destil
03-01-2010, 04:37 PM
Jesus, SN. Way to come out swinging. I was going to suggest pointedly not lynching him the first day just to see how he'd handle actually being in the game, but I think we just found out.

I'm leaning towards "Silent Noise is an idiot and probably mafia" myself, but I guess we'll see where that takes us. The reasoning is right - that was under no circumstances a remotely good move, be he mafia or the inspector or a citizen. Especially since the real inspector(?) is hypothetically laughing his socks off somewhere right now for getting a free night's inspection. But hey, once things get real we've basically already got a free lynch target for later.]You nailed my thoughts in one, Paul. If Silent Noise is on the other side he's more of a danger to his own team than us. Really. Just look where he's landed the citizens already. I had the exact same reason to not accuse him or hint that he should have a run-in with a certain shotgun toting madman tonight, but he's already lost the benefit of the doubt there.

Likewise, I dislike pointing out Alice, but she was the single most quiet person in the last game, and that gains us nothing. She can divert that much suspicion just by posting here a few times for my part.

Alice: It's nothing personal. I've retracted my accusation. Make me proud to have done so, please, by posting your thoughts at least at some point before sundown.

Nerdy
03-01-2010, 04:38 PM
Trustworthy when it comes to posting, I mean.

Nerdy
03-01-2010, 04:41 PM
Gah. Need to get this posting thing arranged right. >____>;

I'm really grateful for withdrawing your accusation of me, both Destil AND Silent Noise, it really means a lot to me that I was at least given a chance this time in the game. =)

Guesty
03-01-2010, 04:52 PM
Actually, I'm going to ask the town a question:
Do you think SN is better off dead even if he is the inspector? I kind of doubt that SN would be a huge positive force in the game, but having an inspector helped lead the town to victory (but he was actually, you know, competent).
________
HONDA CMX450 (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_CMX450)

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 04:56 PM
Well the chance he is mafia > the chance he is inspector. Based on what he's done so far, which is a bad move whichever side he is on, he doesn't seem to be much help. We should definitely wait until everyone chimes in and some more develops. If nothing else happens he is the most suspicious player currently. No one else has rocked the boat as much as he has.

Tock
03-01-2010, 04:57 PM
Actually, I'm going to ask the town a question:
Do you think SN is better off dead even if he is the inspector? I kind of doubt that SN would be a huge positive force in the game, but having an inspector helped lead the town to victory (but he was actually, you know, competent).

At best, he's an idiot. If he's mafia, it's possible that (as Paul and Destil noted) he could become a useful idiot, because of the seemingly high likelihood that he might give his own away. I actually think he's least useful to us if he is the real inspector--since he seems to post whatever he's thinking, there doesn't seem to be much chance that he'll assemble a Brickesque long-term plan.

That being said, I also want to see how the metagame problems he's wrapped up in shakes out, as I'm not sure what any fallout from that might cause.

Garrison
03-01-2010, 04:59 PM
What lead the citizens to victory last time wasn't that Brickroad was the inspector, it was that he had a strategy as the inspector. I honestly don't know that SN would have any kind of strategy worth keeping around.

To answer your question, my gut says no, but I honestly don't have nearly enough to actually make any kind of accusation. If I'm wrong and we do falsely lynch SN, we effectively cut out potential strategies. Keep in mind, even if SN himself can't come up with a decent play, someone else could and make good of his role.

These are just a few things to mull over anyways, I don't have any real answers at this point.

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 05:03 PM
To answer your question, my gut says no, but I honestly don't have nearly enough to actually make any kind of accusation. If I'm wrong and we do falsely lynch SN, we effectively cut out potential strategies. Keep in mind, even if SN himself can't come up with a decent play, someone else could and make good of his role.


You have to be careful of this because if the plan is public, the mafia can slip in mess it up. No plan in mafia is ever fool proof. There is always a chance something could go wrong. Having to openly determine strategy would be a HUGE disadvantage and would make him more useful to the mafia than as an actual member.

kaisel
03-01-2010, 05:41 PM
You have to be careful of this because if the plan is public, the mafia can slip in mess it up. No plan in mafia is ever fool proof. There is always a chance something could go wrong. Having to openly determine strategy would be a HUGE disadvantage and would make him more useful to the mafia than as an actual member.

The thing with the inspector is that the biggest advantage the citizens have over the mafia is information, we have the power to know what roles are still in play, while the mafia only knows guilt or innocence, and that is powerful. There's a very definite reason why there was a string of non-special role kills in the last game, and it wasn't merely bad luck. Having the investigator is a huge boon, even if the person isn't the savviest player.

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 07:08 PM
Something that I'm curious about is brick. He was very outspoken in the first game and now he just threw out a point and is watching idly by. I'm not accusing anything and I am not hoping to infer anything, but his absence is unusual. It could just be he's busy though.

It's been said but I'll confirm it: I work nights. I actually just woke up about 30 minutes ago, will be heading to work in another 30, and will probably be able to F5 the thread all night long.

I'll be the first to say it, I trust Brickroad about as far as I can throw him, and I'm an out of shape white-boy.

Good.

Actually, I'm going to ask the town a question:
Do you think SN is better off dead even if he is the inspector?

I think we can win without an inspector, but it's an uphill climb. Even a drunken monkey could do the job as long as he had some method of conveying a name to us each morning. People are correct in saying that last game was a win because "inspector + strategy" but there's no reason the inspections and the strategy have to come from the same person.

Most likely I think Silent Noise is a regular citizen who got all butthurt when he realized he might die on Day One again, and is trying to sabotage the game. We should let him live, just in case, but the situation needs to be treated delicately. We have to keep him in our periphery without actually listening to too much of what he says, if that makes sense.

I do have to shift my accusation now, though. Based on the same reasoning that caused me to initially finger Silent Noise, I accuse Alice.

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 07:17 PM
Most likely I think Silent Noise is a regular citizen who got all butthurt when he realized he might die on Day One again, and is trying to sabotage the game. We should let him live, just in case, but the situation needs to be treated delicately. We have to keep him in our periphery without actually listening to too much of what he says, if that makes sense.

I do have to shift my accusation now, though. Based on the same reasoning that caused me to initially finger Silent Noise, I accuse Alice.

We may just be making mountains out of molehills.

Alice is an interesting choice. People must not like wonderland in this here town. She appears to be lying a little too low. When accused she responded, but hasn't really added anything meaningful to the discussion. I don't know if this is just people warming up or attempting to stay under the radar.

Nerdy
03-01-2010, 07:20 PM
I'm warming up a little still because I'm a tad bit confused. Especially why I'm being accused first thing.

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 07:21 PM
Well people are sort of grasping at straws so expect the unexpected. We don't have much to go on and the requirement to lynch on day 1 is pushing us to consider some unusual options.

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 07:21 PM
I'm warming up a little still because I'm a tad bit confused. Especially why I'm being accused first thing.

Go back and read my initial post. We have such a small chance of hitting Mafia with our current information that we shouldn't worry about aiming for one. Instead we should aim at the citizens who are least likely to help us win.

Silent Noise is #1 on that list, but he bought himself some time with his idiotic Inspector reveal. You're #2, and if you don't know why, you weren't paying enough attention in the first game.

Paul le Fou
03-01-2010, 07:23 PM
I'm warming up a little still because I'm a tad bit confused. Especially why I'm being accused first thing.

Mostly because we can't not kill someone the first day. Possibly because your performance in the last game has caused people to doubt your capacity. Possibly because your name is first on the list so they end up thinking about Alice.

I for one think we should give Alice a chance to get more into the game. Although look where that got us with SN...

I'd still like to see more posts from some of the inactive crowd. Umby, Traumadore (did he post? am I forgetting already?), etc.

Nerdy
03-01-2010, 07:24 PM
I wasn't paying attention enough in the first game because I wasn't on for most of it. This is a different game completely and I'm going to be more active and much more productive. I'm not going to say who I am like SN here did, But I would at least really like to have a chance this time.

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 07:30 PM
I wasn't paying attention enough in the first game because I wasn't on for most of it. This is a different game completely and I'm going to be more active and much more productive. I'm not going to say who I am like SN here did, But I would at least really like to have a chance this time.

This is going to come off a bit blunt, but you need to say something substantial then. All of your posts have been reactionary and simply defensive. None of your posts so far have added anything meaningful to the discussion. So stop apologizing and start reasoning. No one is holding a gun to your head, you have a total of 1 accusation against you.

Destil
03-01-2010, 07:55 PM
Most likely I think Silent Noise is a regular citizen who got all butthurt when he realized he might die on Day One again, and is trying to sabotage the game. We should let him live, just in case, but the situation needs to be treated delicately. We have to keep him in our periphery without actually listening to too much of what he says, if that makes sense.Yeah, I'm most worried of this being the case, from everything I've seen him do.

What do we think the odds are of mafia hitting Silent Noise? One of the best damn weapons we have is the angles, but they're hard to use. If we can get the mafia to waste a night hitting someone angle protected it's a big gain, especially early when we're pretty certain it's not a plant (Lucas had a single fantastic play for what it's worth). Keeping the angles off specific designated targets is generally better though, because then we're a lot more likely to make the mafia whiff if they want a juicy target. But I can't see them wasting a night for him in the current environment (we'll do it for them in a day or three).'

I'm thinking he'll investigate Brickroad if he's not just saving his own skin; even if we tell him who to check out I don't have much faith he'll listen... I don't think Silent Noise is valuable enough to be worth wasting angelic protection for any reason other than possibly tempting the mafia, as far as 'Plan E'. A shell game with 2 non-differentiable angles is a 2/3 shot, hopefully enough to dissuade mafia, but the longer it goes on the better it gets for them (and they have plenty of time to rack up easy kill at the moment).

Alice, I need to see you post something useful; until that happens I'm very inclined to re-assert my accusation of you. You want to play, then play. Give us something good to work with. Ideas, suggestions on who else to lynch, thoughts on the entire Silent Noise fiasco... I need more than a name and an avatar, which is all you are to me right now (in the game, of course).

gamin
03-01-2010, 08:02 PM
As far as our first lynch, I'm honestly pretty ambivalent, given how much this is just shooting in the dark right now. Silent Noise painted himself a massive target, but at the same time, I'm a little curious to see whether or not the mafia go for him tonight. If he's not dead come the morning (unless an angel saves him), we either have ourselves a mafioso, or someone they plan to use as a puppet.

Alice seems one of our better choices, but I'm not voting for her until I hear from BodhiTraveler and Umby.

Eddie
03-01-2010, 08:08 PM
I agree with Brickroad's logic in this manner, but...

It's kind of harsh to hold a past game against someone. It's fundamentally the same as declaring "Brickroad is the biggest threat, let's kill/screw him over first" every time you play a game with him.

Of course if your only goal is "winning" then sure, let's kill Silent Noise and Alice. But keep in mind that by doing so, we actively discourage them from participating in these kinds of games in the future.

My idea to "play" Silent Noise as an inspector doesn't appear to have much traction, and I can understand the logic that prevents some from following it (that the mafia can 'counter' by killing the announced investigation target each night). But I'm going to continue arguing for it:

1) The Mafia are going to kill someone anyway. If they decide that 'countering' the strategy by offing a particular member is a good idea, well we can nominate only people we don't trust.

2) Our angels could start protecting them if it looks like killing our targets is 'the thing to do' (which I'm not convinced about).

One last thing before I log off for the night: If we're having a problem nominating someone for the chopping block, then feel free to nominate me. As an ordinary citizen (i.e. no powers) this at least prevents us from axing a special right from the get go.

- Eddie

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 08:13 PM
I am still waiting on a meaningful response from Alice and until then I will

accuse Alice

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 08:17 PM
I agree with Brickroad's logic in this manner, but...

It's kind of harsh to hold a past game against someone. It's fundamentally the same as declaring "Brickroad is the biggest threat, let's kill/screw him over first" every time you play a game with him.
- Eddie

We have given Alice multiple opportunities to defend herself and all we got was promise to be more active. Her reaction to the accusation testifies against her. We are not immediately axing her, we still need 8 more accusations against her before she is going to be lynched.

spineshark
03-01-2010, 08:18 PM
One last thing before I log off for the night: If we're having a problem nominating someone for the chopping block, then feel free to nominate me. As an ordinary citizen (i.e. no powers) this at least prevents us from axing a special right from the get go.
No, pick me. My reasoning is identical, except I actually pretty much made it to the end while Eddie got shanked first last time too.

Sprite
03-01-2010, 08:20 PM
No, pick me. My reasoning is identical, except I actually pretty much made it to the end while Eddie got shanked first last time too.

Actually, you're the one who came up at random for me. If you're okay with it, then...

I accuse Spineshark.

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 08:22 PM
It's kind of harsh to hold a past game against someone. It's fundamentally the same as declaring "Brickroad is the biggest threat, let's kill/screw him over first" every time you play a game with him.

Don't think I haven't thought about this. It's entirely possible I'll never get to play more than a day or two of every Mafia game from here on out.

I'm fine with that, as long as I win.

Of course if your only goal is "winning" then sure, let's kill Silent Noise and Alice. But keep in mind that by doing so, we actively discourage them from participating in these kinds of games in the future.

Okay, let's talk goals.

My goal is to win. That is my only goal. If it means lynching our inspector to clear the air, so be it. If it means killing me and Paul because we're mean and scary, make the accusation. If it means letting the game die through inactivity only to have a player necropost it six months from now, I'm all for that as well.

If you want to relax and chitchat, meet me in the Television Games forum and let's talk about Metroid. This thread is for slit throats and hurt feelings. I'm not here to give hugs and make friends, I'm here to kill some bitches.

(Mobster bitches, preferably.)

Nerdy
03-01-2010, 08:28 PM
Okay, now that I finally peel myself away from the family I suppose it's time for something useful from me.

Opinions on Silent Noise's situation;

First off, a pretty bad move to say what your role is first thing in the game, especially your first post. It can easily screw him over but he can also give a legitimate argument as to why he just did it. Could have been spooked, he could have been just the town idiot and screwed himself over. Pretty dumb choices, also gives us an excuse to kill someone finally. I accuse Silent Noise.


My goal isn't entirely to win but to at least have a fair game. Then again, life isn't fair.

Garrison
03-01-2010, 08:28 PM
Okay, once again, I'm not going to say too much of value here, but here it goes:

I have really mixed feelings about lynching Alice for actions in the past. Part of me feels that it's kind of unfair to just off her like that, just because we have nothing else to go by. On the other hand, this is a game of strategy, and I can't really argue Brick's logic here. We HAVE TO lynch someone today, we don't have a say in the matter. We can either shoot in the dark, or go into the gray metagamey area and lynch based on who is and isn't an asset to the citizenry.

On the other hand, we've got two people willing to self sacrifice here. Eddie, who we honestly haven't seen much of and spineshark, who was a damned fine player in round one. If I had to choose between the two, I'd probably go with the more selfish choice of Eddie, just because I want to see how he plays. Maybe being selfish this early in the game may paint a target on the squishiest part of my head, but this is a game and I want to have as much fun as possible while doing so. To me, unpredictability is fun, thinking on the fly is fun, and Killing some bitches is fun.

So in short, I swing more towards Alice or spineshark, but I'm not making a formal accusation quite yet.

Eddie
03-01-2010, 08:34 PM
We have given Alice multiple opportunities to defend herself and all we got was promise to be more active. Her reaction to the accusation testifies against her. We are not immediately axing her, we still need 8 more accusations against her before she is going to be lynched.

Okay, first let's separate "game 1" from this game. Holding to her account for her first showing isn't fair. She's had basically one opportunity to defend herself this game.

Secondly, let's keep in mind how little she has to defend her self with this game. We've haven't even lynched anyone! We can't call on her past votes or anything. Also keep in mind that 'not' discussing strategy can be a strategy too. Look how much strategy-talking killed citizens in the first game.

Basically, if you want to have a witch hunt fine but let's do it after we're have more than a whim to go on.

I'm very hesitant to let Spineshark go down, and wasn't really expecting someone else to want to jump on a grenade like this. Please no one else offer themselves up for lynching becuase that just gives ammunition for the Mafia to root out who isn't a special.

I'm going to sleep on a new strategy I think.

- Eddie

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 08:37 PM
Basically, if you want to have a witch hunt fine but let's do it after we're have more than a whim to go on.

It's not a witch hunt, just cold hard logic. We have to kill someone. If we didn't, I'd vote to move immediately to night.

I'm going to sleep on a new strategy I think.

I can already tell I'll be butting heads with you all game. Sleep well. =)

Garrison
03-01-2010, 08:38 PM
On the other hand, we've got two people willing to self sacrifice here. Eddie, who we honestly haven't seen much of and spineshark, who was a damned fine player in round one. If I had to choose between the two, I'd probably go with the more selfish choice of Eddie, just because I want to see how he plays.

Just going to clarify here, I was suggesting keeping Eddie in the game not offing the dude.

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 08:42 PM
If we really want to just lynch someone we can lynch silent noise. He is currently marginal and if we want to see a mafioso killing and a vigilante killing before we make any cold hard accusations then we can kill him. No need to sacrifice anyone.

Eddie
03-01-2010, 08:44 PM
This thread is for slit throats and hurt feelings. I'm not here to give hugs and make friends, I'm here to kill some bitches.

I don't think anyone is arguing that this game isn't harsh, but I'm just saying let's give everyone the benefit of the doubt at the start of the game. Hold them to conduct during the game, not before it.

Still, admit that logically you are correct.

Also, you made me think of this episode (http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1316) which is awesome and you should all listen to.

- Eddie

p.s. We'll get along fine as long as you're not stinkin' MAFIOSO.

Eddie
03-01-2010, 08:54 PM
God I need to proofread. Also: I'm not getting to bed at a decent time.

- Eddie

Destil
03-01-2010, 08:59 PM
I'm cool with a bit of 'don't be a dick' play, in terms of looking at the current game rather than the last one. I'm certinally here with the intention of winning, but I wouldn't want to be killed in the 1st round every game, either (and if Silent Noise would play a bit smarter he wouldn't be in this situation).

So BodhiTraveler, Umby? Neither of you have spoken up in the game yet. And at this point that makes you look less useful than Alice, who at least has checked in (and could potentially put us over the critical vote if we're lynching Silent Noise, so she's already contributed more here than the last game, too). Speak up or I'm accusing one based on a coin flip.

gamin
03-01-2010, 09:03 PM
Yeah, I'm getting a little bored and neither are speaking up so...

I accuse Umby

gamin
03-01-2010, 09:05 PM
Maybe that was too bloodthirsty?

What I mean by this is break the silence and defend yourself! I want to hear something at least.

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 09:12 PM
Not at all. We need to start determining what we are going to do. People have been very hands-off and cautious.

don't expect a response though, we are still dealing with the time zone issue.

Tock
03-01-2010, 09:15 PM
Maybe that was too bloodthirsty?

What I mean by this is break the silence and defend yourself! I want to hear something at least.

I'm sticking by my original 24 hours or more activity check window, but I'm willing to go along with an Umby accusation if we haven't heard from him tomorrow. Sorry if you've got a real life thing going on, but them's the breaks. Like Brick has said, we've got to determine who's an asset and who isn't.

I'm letting Bodhi slide for today as per Senator Brickroad's Newbie Amnesty Proposal. But Bodhi, be warned: the BrickNAP Act expires on day 2 as far as I'm concerned.

I could be swayed from Umby and to Silent Noise, but as I said before, I want to see how Merus wants to handle this. If for example his role is replaced by a different player, I'd like to see how someone who isn't a total idiot comports himself. Especially if that idiot actually is our investigator.

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 09:15 PM
If we creep up on the 24 hour mark and still haven't heard from Umby, I'm switching my accusation. A bad player is more useful than an absent one.

Garrison
03-01-2010, 09:17 PM
So far on the accusation table we have:

Alice
spineshark
Silent Noise
Umby

Should we go about debating the fate of these four or should we wade the waters for a while longer?

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 09:28 PM
I think we need to start coming to a consensus as to whom.

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 09:29 PM
we want to lynch. I am going to wait a bit to change my vote but I plan to have it set before the night is over.

Destil
03-01-2010, 09:38 PM
I'm sticking by my original 24 hours or more activity check window, but I'm willing to go along with an Umby accusation if we haven't heard from him tomorrow. Sorry if you've got a real life thing going on, but them's the breaks. Like Brick has said, we've got to determine who's an asset and who isn't.

I'm letting Bodhi slide for today as per Senator Brickroad's Newbie Amnesty Proposal. But Bodhi, be warned: the BrickNAP Act expires on day 2 as far as I'm concerned.

I dislike voting for an absentee player, since it's almost certain to be a citizen and there's nothing interesting or terribly useful bout such a trial. My threat is more in hopes of spurring them to action than anything.

I also don't buy the 24 hour embargo on the new guys. At this point I'd say we've learned more of most new guys (and Eddie) than we ever got from Alice (and Eddie) last game. Anyone wants me in the gallows speak up, I won't hide behind Brick. All my actions have been taken for the good of the community so far (well, not 6 of you).

Eddie
03-01-2010, 09:39 PM
Well, I think if you're not going to be 'random' about it take spinespark off the block. He was volunteering so we didn't hit a special, and if we're not concerned about that then we should keep him alive (same goes for me).

I'm very tempted to accuse Silent Noise just to put this whole horrid affair behind us. Can we win without the inspector? Yes. But if we're not going to use him, then I think we should get rid of him.

Umby I'm reluctant to vote on until 24 hours have passed.

Alice I'm reluctant for reasons mentioned before, and have my fingers crossed that she'll do more than regurgitate public opinion next time she posts.

C'mon Alice, I believe in you.

- Eddie

Traumadore
03-01-2010, 10:14 PM
Yeah, I am torn on Alice too, but I suppose she doesn't know that pushing the accusation on Silent Noise again after everyone else rescinded kind of makes her look like Mafia. I will assume, in fact, that she didn't realize what she was saying with that choice and say she seems innocent.

SuperRube
03-01-2010, 10:25 PM
Maybe I'm a softie but pushing to lynch Alice at this point just feels vindictive.

I'm sticking with waiting until I get up to go to work tomorrow to vote. Hopefully by then Umby will have said something and a good choice will be more clear. (I am a large fan of false hope.)

Traumadore
03-01-2010, 10:31 PM
Alright, final post before bed. The player that most closely matches my mafia profile determined through wholly empirical means in my science laboratory is PapillonReel, whom I accuse.

Here we have a veteran player who has given just the minimum presence required by the mob to overlook him. Folks, there need not be anything random about the product of your bloodthirst. PapillonReel shall be a guilt free choice for those fence sitting citizens. Join in the fun!

Tock
03-01-2010, 10:47 PM
So BodhiTraveler, Umby? Neither of you have spoken up in the game yet. And at this point that makes you look less useful than Alice, who at least has checked in (and could potentially put us over the critical vote if we're lynching Silent Noise, so she's already contributed more here than the last game, too). Speak up or I'm accusing one based on a coin flip.

I dislike voting for an absentee player, since it's almost certain to be a citizen and there's nothing interesting or terribly useful bout such a trial.

Make up your mind.

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 10:57 PM
Oh yah we passed West :D

The reason I think we should lynch Alice is that she has been actively passive so far. She was accused initially and after we cleared up the silent noise issue can back up. The second time she reacted very quickly and with a strong counter to a single accusation.

The issue lies in the fact that her counter was to simply say she would stay active and nothing else. Why would you react so quickly and make multiple posts apologizing yet say nothing? It appeared overly dramatic to me. When she was later challenged again she did the same thing. Finally, once confronted on it she said what everyone had already agreed on and still meant nothing to the discussion.

Not having a clue as to what is going on is not good in mafia. If she is really confused then i would expect a weaker slower response to the accusations.

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 11:00 PM
Nice catch, Tock.

Destil, care to explain?

Paul le Fou
03-01-2010, 11:04 PM
Umby and Pappy are curiously MIA, although I DID just post about how I wasn't holding activity heretofore against them. But yeah, with the 24 hour point coming up, it gets increasingly suspicious.

kaisel
03-01-2010, 11:06 PM
Umby and Pappy are curiously MIA, although I DID just post about how I wasn't holding activity heretofore against them. But yeah, with the 24 hour point coming up, it gets increasingly suspicious.

A bit suspicious, but I'm not sure it's that suspicious, if they were mafia I suspect they'd be a bit more active and all. Still, I agree with Brick's statement, that absent players are worse than just bad players.

Paul le Fou
03-01-2010, 11:06 PM
Umby and Pappy are curiously MIA, although I DID just post about how I wasn't holding activity heretofore against them. But yeah, with the 24 hour point coming up, it gets increasingly suspicious.

Not against them specifically but against people in general.

Also, I'm still not ready to string Alice up. She's already contributed more than she did last game and we haven't even hit a night phase yet, so I'm convinced she's serious about the game this time and want to give her the chance that SN already wasted.

Mr. J
03-01-2010, 11:06 PM
Okay well I have a History Essay to write and French oral to study for so I am going to leave the thread as is for now. I doubt I will have a chance to check before night phase if we vote to lynch someone.

Traumadore
03-01-2010, 11:12 PM
The reason I think we should lynch Alice is that she has been actively passive so far.

I don't believe that's true, she just isn't entirely clear on what information is useful. I know in your books that is a sign of weakness, but I believe that her accusal of Silent Noise (which should be disregarded) is a sign of innocence for now. You can look elsewhere even if you're just trying to pick something random.

I see that you're thinking Destil was covering for his mafia buddy Alice until she checked in, before changing his position on killing absent players. Well, Destil has said a lot of things. The most things to be exact, not smart behavior if he is indeed mafia. I am doubtful.

Merus
03-01-2010, 11:26 PM
An administrative note: Vote tally posts for the current day, as well as the day starts, will be linked in the rules post.

The current vote tally (10 required to lynch):

Alice: 2
Brickroad (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=693672&postcount=130)
Mr. J (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=693741&postcount=141)

spineshark: 1
LilSpriteX (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=693756&postcount=144)

Umby: 1
gamin (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=693828&postcount=155)

PapillonReel: 1
Traumadore (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=693948&postcount=167)

(Alice had accused Silent Noise by this point, but as noted below she soon withdrew her accusation.)

One of the best damn weapons we have is the angles

The mafia will soon have an acute case of the acute if Destil has anything to say about it.

Traumadore
03-01-2010, 11:30 PM
Good, now we're cooking. I know it's nothing but an informed hunch, but I have a really good feeling about ButterflyWinch. This is a bandwagon you won't want to miss, folks!

Nerdy
03-01-2010, 11:37 PM
May I please withdraw my vote on SN? Seems I have a fog to clear up on this.

Garrison
03-01-2010, 11:39 PM
Sorry to bring up old business, but what exactly are we going to do with Silent Noise if we don't send him to the gallows? We seem to have completely written him off with the exception of Alice, but we still haven't made any decisions on what we should do?

I know it's probably in bad taste for someone as new as myself to say this, but can we even trust him to play a decent game? Nothing I've seen from him so far suggests so. If he's the inspector, we also need to have some sort of plan because I'm just not seeing kid coming up with one himself.

I said earlier in the thread that I didn't think we should just string the guy up, but at the same time, do we honestly believe he's the inspector? I know I for sure don't, but I don't necessarily think his bad play gives him 100% away. I guess what I'm trying to say is a bad player is a bad player is a bad player. His move was without a doubt a horrible plan from any angle you look at it. he could just really, really sucks at the game.

I guess I just want some clarification on what everyone else is thinking. No one else seems all that suspicious to me at this point(although Destil is on my radar for obvious reasons).

Merus
03-01-2010, 11:40 PM
So noted: because I just made a big long tally post, I'ma going to edit that.

Brickroad
03-01-2010, 11:44 PM
Sorry to bring up old business, but what exactly are we going to do with Silent Noise if we don't send him to the gallows?

We let him live until we can determine whether or not his claim to be the inspector is 1) testable and 2) authentic.

The inspector doesn't need to be smart, just honest. If he collects some trustworthy names we can enact a strategy utilizing those names without his input if we so choose.

Traumadore
03-01-2010, 11:48 PM
If the mafia or vigilante want to kill him well he's hanging in the wind. Most people feel he is just a citizen trying to stay alive. If he is the inspector, he outed himself on the first day, and is not much more useful than a citizen now. We don't lynch him, and take anything he tells us with two grains of salt.

By the way, since you're saying nobody is suspicious, PapillonReel popped in once to say hi, then disappeared the rest of the first day. He is the only player exhibit this behavior, and also happens to be a successful veteran. That's about as suspicious as you can get without being blatant (Silent Noise). I think it should be the natural choice for anyone looking for a non-random first day victim.

Brickroad
03-02-2010, 12:04 AM
Careful, Traumadore. If you want to know how likely it is for "suspicious-acting players" to actually be Mafia, just go ask dwolfe. Or kaisel.

How about this: if we lynch Pappy and he's innocent, can we lynch you next? If you're that confident you must know something we don't, which can only mean one thing...

Traumadore
03-02-2010, 12:08 AM
No, I just totalled everybody's posts and combined it with my list of known facts. People were looking for a non-random choice and I provided. And yes, if you're so upset that I was wrong you can double your fun tomorrow.

BodhiTraveller
03-02-2010, 12:18 AM
Wow, seven pages already!

Tonight was about the apex of poor activity nights for me; I will have the time to post, but for the next couple of days it will likely be in the wee hours of the morning, like this.

First off, I read and enjoyed last game a great deal, though I think there are two lessons we can come away with:

We should not suspect perfectly reasonable play. Many people are sure to not be particularly good at this game, or at least not think several rounds ahead. For example, while Silent Noise seems highly suspicious at this point, if he really is the inspector it is entirely likely he's just really awful at gumshoery.

Posting frequency is not an indicator of guilt or innocence, both in the case of constant posting and negligent posting. This factor seems to have a lot more to do with people's schedules, and is not a reliable way to identify a person's status. One can make a good argument for a skilled mafioso posting little, moderate, or large amounts to defy expectation and be right in every case.

That beings said, I do think that Brick's metric of assessing usefulness is a good one. Guilty or not, an non-strategizing citizen is only good as a warm body against the mafia uprising, and especially at this point in the game we have a lot of warm bodies.

Considering Silent Noise; his behavior is highly suspicious, but I think that it is worth keeping him for a day on the slightly off chance that he is the inspector. Night will give us a lot of information and, given the way that he blabbers on, so will he. If Silent Noise is mafia, I highly doubt that he will slink off into the night and never slip up again. If Silent Noise is the inspector, he can still be useful, even if he is just taking marching orders from an active citizen.

BodhiTraveller
03-02-2010, 12:20 AM
Curse you, no edits!

We should not expect perfectly reasonable play.

Brickroad
03-02-2010, 12:23 AM
No, I just totalled everybody's posts and combined it with my list of known facts. People were looking for a non-random choice and I provided.

Yeah but you're beatin' that drum pretty hard. =)

And yes, if you're so upset that I was wrong you can double your fun tomorrow.

What, kill you twice?

Having fun posting from bed? =)

PapillonReel
03-02-2010, 02:13 AM
By the way, since you're saying nobody is suspicious, PapillonReel popped in once to say hi, then disappeared the rest of the first day. He is the only player exhibit this behavior, and also happens to be a successful veteran. That's about as suspicious as you can get without being blatant (Silent Noise). I think it should be the natural choice for anyone looking for a non-random first day victim.

I floated around like I did because I just finished work at the time, was exhausted after pulling an all-nighter (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?p=692701#post692701) and needed to sleeeeep. You should expect me to start posting and waffling like a maniac more often now. ;)

But anyway, I'm tempted to throw Silent Noise to the wolves because he hasn't really done all that much to add to the team and the odds of him being the Inspector are dubious. That said, whether or not he'll survive the night should be enough to determine his innocence (or guilt), and even still we have other means of determining that as well.

For my vote though... Traumadore's been pushing for my death pretty hard and simply being off for a while doesn't seem like a good enough excuse to call for my head (though what do I know, I got Lucas killed in round 1 :p). Even still though, I'm feeling spiteful today and we have to get a kill in before sunset anyway so I accuse Traumadore of third-degree murder, disturbing the peace, organized crime and jay-walking.

spineshark
03-02-2010, 02:45 AM
That beings said, I do think that Brick's metric of assessing usefulness is a good one. Guilty or not, an non-strategizing citizen is only good as a warm body against the mafia uprising, and especially at this point in the game we have a lot of warm bodies.
Problem is, there's a whole lot of blank slates here, and it's hard to strategize when there's so little to go on. Merus is a freaking slave driver for forcing a day one kill, haha. Though at the same time, it's kind of a relief since all we "learned" from the first day last time was that dwolfe was obviously guilty. That worked out well. The pressure to actually try to figure something out is almost nice.

Aside from the ludicrous difficulty of doing so, obviously. I'm still not ready to vote. At this point, I have no especial suspicions, so it's just a question of who is least unproductive to kill. Umby is first until he actually posts, but I'm still perfectly willing to die if it comes to that. I still don't at all believe SN, but that doesn't mean he should be immediately eliminated. I also have very slight reservations about going to off him first two games in a row =|
ButterflyWinch
You know, at first I always imagined a slot reel. But I've changed my mind. It obviously refers to the Irish dance/music. At any rate, an amazing handle.

Destil
03-02-2010, 03:29 AM
The mafia will soon have an acute case of the acute if Destil has anything to say about it.
My thought process may be obtuse, but i think the degree of certainty of being right at this point is just rad.

Nice catch, Tock.

Destil, care to explain?

Of course. I dislike doing it because it's a dick move (voting for someone who may have been unable to contribute for real life reasons), just like voting for Alice. However, I also think it's a relatively correct move to get them into the thread and posting a defense. Totally silent players don't really do us any good.

You said it yourself, you'll vote for Umby if he's not posting. And I agree, but I'd hate to kick someone from the game because they loose internet access for a few days or have a really tough day of work.

Brickroad
03-02-2010, 03:41 AM
Okay, fair enough. But let me ask you this: are you willing to make dick moves in order to win?

Actually I will post that question to the lot of you. Short of cheating are there any lines you aren't willing to cross to win this game for your team?

Destil
03-02-2010, 03:51 AM
Okay, fair enough. But let me ask you this: are you willing to make dick moves in order to win?

Actually I will post that question to the lot of you. Short of cheating are there any lines you aren't willing to cross to win this game for your team?

I wouldn't talk the talk if I weren't to willing to walk the walk, chief. Umby's getting accused if he doesn't chime in soon though I'm leaning towards giving him another full day at this point; I'm in no hurry and I'm in this to win.

I've got no such boundries. If I come up with what I consider to be a full-proof strategy for the citizens to win at some point and have to get the group to lynch me to trust me and follow it I'll do it. However, so far all I know for sure is that TT's mafia players are very good at being subtle and earning trust.

SuperRube
03-02-2010, 06:47 AM
Hey, what a shock. Getting some sleep has made things so much easier.

Sarcasm aside, every fiber of my being is telling me to string up SilentNoise after all those metagame shenanigans. Even if the dude had no malicious intent, he's still guilty of very poor judgment. Which really just makes me more likely to think he'd lie about being the insector.

Now, this is all an emotional response. Logically, if he is lying the problem will clear itself up naturally anyhow; if he's lying and not mafia the they'll clean things up for us, if he's lying and he is mafia then we get a free kill when he slips up. So part of me is saying to leave him be.

HOWEVER, I'm tired of spinning my wheels thanks to him, so if another suspect doesn't turn up or get voted off by 6:00pm EST I'ma make a formal accusation.

(I work retail and have no internet access, otherwise I'd totally do something sooner, I swear to christ.)

BodhiTraveller
03-02-2010, 06:57 AM
Okay, fair enough. But let me ask you this: are you willing to make dick moves in order to win?

Actually I will post that question to the lot of you. Short of cheating are there any lines you aren't willing to cross to win this game for your team?

Though it is kind to give people like me time to stretch out in the game, I think the most unnecessary constraint we are laboring under is not killing the newbies. That made sense if we were going to quickly lynch someone on day one, but as this moves forward I think that such a constraint should be lifted.

I don't see why new players should be protected after twenty-four hours of "Day 1."

Destil
03-02-2010, 07:17 AM
Though it is kind to give people like me time to stretch out in the game, I think the most unnecessary constraint we are laboring under is not killing the newbies. That made sense if we were going to quickly lynch someone on day one, but as this moves forward I think that such a constraint should be lifted.

I don't see why new players should be protected after twenty-four hours of "Day 1."Who's this keeping you back on accusing? Not lynching newbies isn't a 'no dick move' rule. The reasoning, as I understand it, is because brick's plan is to base the first lynch be a player we won't miss, and we lacked info on the new players.

I posted likewise up thread, by now I've made enough posts that I don't feel the need for any such protection and agree.

Sprite
03-02-2010, 07:17 AM
I don't believe that's true, she just isn't entirely clear on what information is useful. I know in your books that is a sign of weakness, but I believe that her accusal of Silent Noise (which should be disregarded) is a sign of innocence for now. You can look elsewhere even if you're just trying to pick something random.

That doesn't make any sense, and I disagree. Her accusal should be disregarded, and is a sign of innocence? Does not follow.

I don't think any action should be disregarded, and accusing someone claiming to be the Inspector (troll or no) is certainly not a sign of innocence. Why are you defending her like this, Traumadore?

Alright, i'm prepared to accuse. Silent Noise claims to be a Mafia veteran, and yet he comes forward with a flippant non-trivial reveal the first time his name gets dropped, then fingers the second most likely first-day-lynch, Alice. Precicely after he admits that in his experience the first day is for dicking around. Well you have had your fun.

I accuse Silent Noise.

Hmmm... this post happened almost immediately after the "reveal." Now, I know absolutely no one believed Silent Noise, for the exact reasons you outline here, but killing a possible Inspector at this juncture would be a terrible play.

Yeah, I am torn on Alice too, but I suppose she doesn't know that pushing the accusation on Silent Noise again after everyone else rescinded kind of makes her look like Mafia. I will assume, in fact, that she didn't realize what she was saying with that choice and say she seems innocent.

Yeah, that was rather unfortunate on her part, wasn't it, Traumadore?

Folks, there need not be anything random about the product of your bloodthirst.

You know what? You're absolutely right. I withdraw my accusation of Spineshark.

I accuse Traumadore.

Traumadore
03-02-2010, 08:46 AM
But after everyone explained that possibly killing the inspector was a terrible play, I agreed, and withdrew.

Then Alice went and made the same mistake that I made earlier (gut reaction) because she wasn't paying attention and didn't understand how her accusation would read. That's all I was saying.

And I know PapillonReel would be posting more if he was here. He's a chatty, delightful guy. We just needed to get the ball rolling. If you don't agree with my choice, then don't go along. But don't string me up because I had the balls to have an opinion, both on the innocent and the guilty.

PapillonReel
03-02-2010, 09:10 AM
And I know PapillonReel would be posting more if he was here. He's a chatty, delightful guy.

Aww, you're just saying that. I'm still gonna try and kill you anyway, though. <3

Joking aside though, I'm more indecisive on whether or not we should leave Silent Noise to the wolves. On one hand: his survival would be indicative enough of his guilt, and if he dies... well, good riddance to him anyway. On the other hand, we have to find out whether or not we lost the most powerful role from the outset no matter what and I'm not exactly happy with the notion of the Mafia knowing he was the Inspector and we don't. Worst case scenario, we risk leaving ourselves wide open to a Mafioso pretender later and being played as fools, and considering how far Brickroad got last game without getting any guilty verdicts that is something we should never let happen.

So, the way I see it we really have two options here. One: Lynch him today, so we know for certain what role he had and adjust our plan accordingly, or Two: Leave him to the Vigilante so he and the Oracle can cross-check each others lists just in case he really was important. Which should we go for, guys?

PapillonReel
03-02-2010, 09:12 AM
By the way, I've got work now so I won't be able to post in the thread until... oh, about 10 PM. Have fun, guys!

kaisel
03-02-2010, 09:20 AM
As much as it pains me, I think we should try to keep SN alive, since losing the Inspector makes the game a lot harder for us. Maybe the angels can protect him or something.

I do think if we do decide to get rid of SN, lynching him is probably for the best. We don't want the vigilante to step out yet, and we probably don't want the oracle to step on through, we know that the oracle is important if an angel gets knocked out of the game as well, as the Comb Stranger fiasco proved.

Right now I'm leaning toward picking a random name (and random.org should be good enough), but I'm easily swayed.

Tock
03-02-2010, 09:25 AM
Time's up.

Here's the way I see it: active posters, even suspicious ones, provide information merely by posting. If you're a citizen or a special, your posts are working with the team (unless you are Silent Noise). If you're mafia, your posts keep you out in the open where we can wait for you to slip and reveal yourself and your associates. The thing I want out of a mafia game (other than to win of course) is a fast-paced good time. If we kill off an inactive member on day one, he's by far most likely to be a citizen. We don't gain much information out of their death, but we were gathering zero information (and let's be honest, zero fun) from them as it is.

Thus: I accuse Umby. I'm sorry, I'm sure you're a good dude who got hung up at work or school, and I look forward to lynching you again in a future mafia game. But this isn't show friends, it's show business.

Tock
03-02-2010, 09:39 AM
On Silent Noise: He's gone silent (oho) since Marion got banned, which seems to imply he's gone too. I suppose it would be good housekeeping to hang him anyway (as West seems to be saying they did with Marion, in the game rules thread), but as I said before I'd rather Merus sub him with someone else, on the off chance his role really is the inspector. We can always investigate/kill/killvestigate his replacement at a later date. It's irritating that we might have to tie up an Angel to hold up his dead weight, though.

I'm also willing to be talked into PamelonSmell's second plan (shotgun him, let the Oracle sort it out) if that's what folks think is most productive.

sidenote: back in front of Mafia West, well done gents.

Tock
03-02-2010, 09:44 AM
Who's this keeping you back on accusing? Not lynching newbies isn't a 'no dick move' rule. The reasoning, as I understand it, is because brick's plan is to base the first lynch be a player we won't miss, and we lacked info on the new players.

I posted likewise up thread, by now I've made enough posts that I don't feel the need for any such protection and agree.

That's fine.

I still accuse Umby anyway.

Brickroad
03-02-2010, 09:45 AM
Tock's logic seems pretty sound to me.

I accuse Umby.

Let's just forget Silent Noise exists for now. If he has to die, let the mob waste their turn on him. If he's really gone his replacement will be more useful to us. And if he comes back we can figure on what to do with him then I guess.

Garrison
03-02-2010, 09:46 AM
I have class pretty soon, so I don't really have time to type something extravagant. Here's what I know:

a)Silent Noise is banned(I just looked back at his posts). Merus might be replacing him.
b)I'm now wary of Traumadore and a little less of Destil
c)I'm probably going to lead more towards accusing Umby when I get back from class. It isn't really fair for him to get a free ride into day 2 when an active player gets hanged instead.

I realize this game isn't about being fair, but we all want two things out of this game. To win and have fun. Umby isn't providing the fun, and if he keeps up the trend of not posting at all, he probably won't help us win.

Brickroad
03-02-2010, 09:46 AM
sidenote: back in front of Mafia West, well done gents.

One of those dirty Westies confirmed to me via AIM that they're already done with Day One. What's their hurry, huh!?

Garrison
03-02-2010, 09:48 AM
a)Silent Noise is banned(I just looked back at his posts). Merus might be replacing him.


I suppose this isn't all that clear, Merus might find a replacement.

Tock
03-02-2010, 09:50 AM
One of those dirty Westies confirmed to me via AIM that they're already done with Day One. What's their hurry, huh!?

what do they have to hide!? I accuse all of Mafia West

kaisel
03-02-2010, 09:51 AM
At the rate we're going, we'll be stuck hashing our first kill choice by the time West is done.

I third the accusation of Umby, but retain the right to be easily swayed.

Sprite
03-02-2010, 09:53 AM
The Mafia in the West game is trying to kill everyone as fast as possible because they know that once our Mafia is dead we'll be coming for them.

Destil
03-02-2010, 10:04 AM
I'll be accusing Umby once I get home from work and have time to put all my thoughts down about what do to with SN, since I don't want it to fade to night without us having a plan.

kaisel
03-02-2010, 10:11 AM
I'll be accusing Umby once I get home from work and have time to put all my thoughts down about what do to with SN, since I don't want it to fade to night without us having a plan.

Well, Umby gets a 24 hour period from the first accusation of him, to make a defense post, so we still have time.

The whole SN situation is screwed up, I think we can't really do much until we know if he's getting replaced or not. If he is, the replacement can say whether or not he's the inspector, and might have a better chance of not getting killed. Regardless, I think we should prepare to be inspectorless, until someone comes out swinging, I'm hoping SN was just a citizen who wanted to screw over the game.

Destil
03-02-2010, 11:13 AM
Well, Umby gets a 24 hour period from the first accusation of him, to make a defense post, so we still have time.

The whole SN situation is screwed up, I think we can't really do much until we know if he's getting replaced or not. If he is, the replacement can say whether or not he's the inspector, and might have a better chance of not getting killed. Regardless, I think we should prepare to be inspectorless, until someone comes out swinging, I'm hoping SN was just a citizen who wanted to screw over the game.

Why? The smart move is to deny being the inspector, either way. We may want to have an angel covering them still, mostly because they become a tempting target. But if you've got plausible deniability to not being the inspector, even if you are, you should take it. I would assume that his replacement is smart and also hopefully off the hook for a bit, and I'd be willing to ignore SN's claim entirely for his successor.

I forgot about the rule change for defense posts. So that settles it.

I accuse Umby.

I can be swayed if he's makes himself valuable, which so far he has not. Don't make us kill you before you get a chance to play, dude.

kaisel
03-02-2010, 11:28 AM
Why? The smart move is to deny being the inspector, either way. We may want to have an angel covering them still, mostly because they become a tempting target. But if you've got plausible deniability to not being the inspector, even if you are, you should take it. I would assume that his replacement is smart and also hopefully off the hook for a bit, and I'd be willing to ignore SN's claim entirely for his successor.


It's more that the replacement would still be a tempting target, I think, they'll still have that slight aura of suspicion around them because of SN's claim. I know if I was mafia, and SN wasn't, I'd still go after the replacement, as random chance doesn't help much, as evidenced by the last game.

Garrison
03-02-2010, 12:05 PM
As I've said said before, Umby has been a non presense for well over 24 hours. After mulling it over while I've been gone, I can't come up with a better plan for day one unless someone monumentally fucks up.

I also(for now anyways) agree that we should keep SN alive just in case he gets replaced and he was IN FACT the inspector. I can definitely see this being a boon for us if we can get said replacement to confirm their role. If not, we at least have another player playing a decent game. I'm not sure what we'll do if the replacement ends up being mafia, but maybe we should use some shotgun divination if the rep. just claims to be a citizen.

I'll be honest, I haven't though of every in and out of the replacement scenario, but I think it's worth keeping SN/rep around another day.

And with that, I accuse Umby

BodhiTraveller
03-02-2010, 12:47 PM
I accuse Umby

If he is a citizen, it is highly unlikely he was PMed with a special role, or he would be more active. If he does have a special role, his extreme non-particpation makes him pretty non-useful. Similarly, a non-active citizen is of little use to us, especially this early in the game when we can afford to make a few mistakes.

And if he is a mafioso, yahtzee.

Mr. J
03-02-2010, 02:24 PM
Okay, y'all make sense so

I accuse Umby

Hopefully we will get some more information "tonight."

Mr. J
03-02-2010, 02:31 PM
So is SN getting replaced seeing as he is apparently banned? If he is I'd like to get a post or two from the replacement before we lynch someone.

Nerdy
03-02-2010, 02:36 PM
Just so I don't embarrass myself again by repeating what people say, I just say I'll agree and go with the flow here.

I accuse Umby.

Sprite
03-02-2010, 02:39 PM
If Umby's an Angel I am going to be so pissed.

kaisel
03-02-2010, 02:43 PM
If Umby's an Angel I am going to be so pissed.

If he comes and posts and gives a reason why he hasn't been on for over 48 hours, despite the first day being an activity check, then I'll be fine with changing my accusation. Otherwise we don't have any other enticing targets, and to be honest, I'm tired of waiting around since we have no knowledge, and no way of getting knowledge without a lynch or a mafia killing.

If you have another target, point, and maybe I'll change my accusation.

Paul le Fou
03-02-2010, 03:36 PM
I accuse Umby. He's had long enough to log in and hasn't. Sorry broseph.

Also: I want to keep Silent Noise alive because I'm fascinated at what might play out with a replacement stepping into those shoes. Come on, you know that would be awesome.

SuperRube
03-02-2010, 03:41 PM
Also: I want to keep Silent Noise alive because I'm fascinated at what might play out with a replacement stepping into those shoes. Come on, you know that would be awesome.

Yeah, the ones made of concrete.

shut up someone had to say it

I'm glad you guys went ahead and made up a bandwagon to jump on finally.

I also accuse Umby.

Destil
03-02-2010, 03:56 PM
It's more that the replacement would still be a tempting target, I think, they'll still have that slight aura of suspicion around them because of SN's claim. I know if I was mafia, and SN wasn't, I'd still go after the replacement, as random chance doesn't help much, as evidenced by the last game.

Can the mafia really afford to go after such a prime target with both angels in the game? Especially as by going after someone else they'd make us suspect the replacement of being mafia even more.

Why risk wasting the night and reinforcing our trust if he is saved by an angel? They have plenty of time to play with right now and not much to gain. If we lynch a citizen today they've got better than a 1/3 shot at taking down a power role at random.

If SN is replaced I propose the following:
Each angel roll a d6 and protect not-SN on a 3+ (it's like he's got power armor). Otherwise protect someone else at their discretion. This makes them an unappealing target without leaving out an invitation for the mafia to kill anyone else without fear of divine intervention.

Lynch Umby if he remains inactive. If he becomes active and we can't decide on who will be the least useful going forward, we draw lots from a group of volunteers. Spineshark has already offered to be a sacrificial lamb, and I'll put my name on the table right next to hers.

Naturally we can't just have all the citizens do it (because then our power roles are plain as day), but if either a large or small number of people come forward then we'll be fine (large, low chance of hitting a power role. Small, most likely no power roles in the group). Lynching a citizen tonight is not a great loss; loosing a power role is.

After we choose at random if we pick a power roll they'll have to expose themselves and then we pick again at random from the same group. The angels role dice: on a 1-2 they protect the exposed, on a 4-5 they protect not-SN, on a 5-6 they protect someone of their choice. If an angel is revealed they instead protect themselves and the other angel rolls a die as normal.

spineshark
03-02-2010, 04:08 PM
Can the mafia really afford to go after such a prime target with both angels in the game? Especially as by going after someone else they'd make us suspect the replacement of being mafia even more.
Well, on the off-chance that he was a Mafia player, then that would make that role a good target for the Mafia if they could assume he was protected. Still, there's no rush for the citizens to take that spot out either, especially if he's replaced by someone less...Noisy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30DHDVrBW-4).

But anyway, I accuse Umby. No point in leaving this hanging for too long.

Tock
03-02-2010, 04:20 PM
Also: I want to keep Silent Noise alive because I'm fascinated at what might play out with a replacement stepping into those shoes. Come on, you know that would be awesome.

Hey guys, I'm new to this town! What's that? You say you want me to put on this big rope necklace? Sure, why not!

Traumadore
03-02-2010, 04:22 PM
I'll let go of Papillon and Accuse Umby. Lets get on with it.

SuperRube
03-02-2010, 04:24 PM
So I'm pretty sure we've got enough votes to lynch the ever loving hell out of Umby now. Is there anything else worth talking about for the rest of the 'day' because I'm having trouble coming up with anything.

Tock
03-02-2010, 04:26 PM
So I'm pretty sure we've got enough votes to lynch the ever loving hell out of Umby now. Is there anything else worth talking about for the rest of the 'day' because I'm having trouble coming up with anything.

The awesome superiority of Sicily East over those dirty Westos.

or strategy I guess

Merus
03-02-2010, 05:46 PM
As mentioned in the discussion thread, Silent Noise has been temporarily banned. Any accusations made against him do not require a defence; he should be back by sunrise. If a sub is necessary, night will be extended.

The current vote tally (10 required to lynch):

Umby: 13
gamin (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=693828&postcount=155)
Tock (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=694243&postcount=201)
Brickroad (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=694263&postcount=204)
kaisel (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=694274&postcount=209)
Destil (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=694387&postcount=213)
Ironz (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=694458&postcount=215)
BodhiTraveller (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=694501&postcount=216)
Mr. J (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=694626&postcount=217)
Alice (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=694647&postcount=219)
Paul le Fou (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=694704&postcount=222)
SuperRube (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=694706&postcount=223)
spineshark (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=694732&postcount=225)
Traumadore (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=694746&postcount=227)

Traumadore: 2
PapillonReel (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=694075&postcount=188)
LilSpriteX (http://www.toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=694165&postcount=196)

There are enough votes to lynch; Umby's time runs out in about 4 hours.

Umby
03-02-2010, 06:53 PM
Oh, this is nice. Just great.

I had schoolwork. What else is new. Also I just got a new PS3 from my birthday. But, as my old adage always goes, at least you're lynching someone suspicious. I'll leave it up to you to kill me. Happy trails!

Umby
03-02-2010, 06:55 PM
Also, after reading the thread, I will say that I will not be here for Friday through early Sunday, and probably the rest of that Sunday too. But other than that, I can confirm that I will be active throughout the rest of the game. I'll get lynched this turn unless we can turn this around, but just putting that out there, because that seems to be the case why people are voting for me.

Brickroad
03-02-2010, 06:58 PM
So like... do you not want to get lynched? Or what? Because you're not really giving us anything to work with here.

(At least the vigilante has nothing to do with it this time.)

Umby
03-02-2010, 06:59 PM
So like... do you not want to get lynched? Or what? Because you're not really giving us anything to work with here.

(At least the vigilante has nothing to do with it this time.)

No I don't! I know I'm citizen. Please don't hurt me! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGH

I mean, what do you want me to say? I'll be more active, so there's no point killing me now.

Brickroad
03-02-2010, 07:01 PM
Well my rationale for accusing you was that a bad player is better than an absent player. Since you're no longer absent I'll go back to accusing the bad one.

I accuse Alice.

BodhiTraveller
03-02-2010, 07:02 PM
Unless Umby swoops in with some serious `splainin, it seems about time to talk about night.

Off the top of my head the priorities seem to me to protect Silent Noise and the MVPs of the last game. The MVPs are obvious Mafia targets, provided that they are not mafia themselves. In the case of Silent Noise, if he gets replaced we'll have the chance to learn more about what is actually going on-- it is still very possible that Silent Noise was just a citizen making a desperate move.

We may want to come up with a scheme to distinguish our angels. Similar to Merus' early plan from the last game of splitting the player list we can split by new and old players. For example, if you are a new player and an angel, protect target x, if you played last round protect target y.

Umby
03-02-2010, 07:03 PM
Unless Umby swoops in with some serious `splainin, it seems about time to talk about night.

Off the top of my head the priorities seem to me to protect Silent Noise and the MVPs of the last game. The MVPs are obvious Mafia targets, provided that they are not mafia themselves. In the case of Silent Noise, if he gets replaced we'll have the chance to learn more about what is actually going on-- it is still very possible that Silent Noise was just a citizen making a desperate move.

We may want to come up with a scheme to distinguish our angels. Similar to Merus' early plan from the last game of splitting the player list we can split by new and old players. For example, if you are a new player and an angel, protect target x, if you played last round protect target y.

As I said... I had schoolwork for the past couple of days, I've had little free time to myself, and my school club has been getting ready for convention. Cut me some slack. Also, cut the rope set up to hang me.

BodhiTraveller
03-02-2010, 07:04 PM
So, Umby has reappeared.

I think the onus is on him to suggest a target, and be convincing.

Umby
03-02-2010, 07:06 PM
So, Umby has reappeared.

I think the onus is on him to suggest a target, and be convincing.

Well, anyone who wanted to pass the buck on to me sounds convincing, but it's exactly what I would do in the same situation, so...

I'll just kill Alice and get one bad player off the board. I accuse Alice.

Garrison
03-02-2010, 07:09 PM
Well, this sure complicates things.

Alright Umby, now that you're in play mode, do you have any ideas of what we should be doing? For the time being, I'm still leaning more towards you since it sounds like you're going to be be an absentee for a good chunk of time.

In otherwords, prove your value and let's see where this turn of events takes us.

Umby
03-02-2010, 07:15 PM
Well, this sure complicates things.

Alright Umby, now that you're in play mode, do you have any ideas of what we should be doing? For the time being, I'm still leaning more towards you since it sounds like you're going to be be an absentee for a good chunk of time.

In otherwords, prove your value and let's see where this turn of events takes us.

My worth is that I'm an informed member of the town that will be active after Sunday. If I do not do that, you have my own permission to take me out, because I'm not useful.

BodhiTraveller
03-02-2010, 07:31 PM
Umby, right now you're on a time limit - unless people check the thread and change their votes you have enough votes to lynch. I don't think that you should die just because you don't have enough time to think things through and show us that you'll be an awesome sauce player.

I retract my accusation of Umby; because I want to hear what he has to say. I feel like so far you're posts have been trying-to-not-get-killed; which I totally understand. I want to hear what you think of the game so far-- even if we do send you to the gallows, a small bit of informed input is better than none.

Merus
03-02-2010, 07:32 PM
Umby's defence has bought him some time; I'll likely wait to see if the town is deciding to move on.

Umby
03-02-2010, 07:41 PM
Thank you Merus, I was wondering how long I'd last if people aren't awake.

All right, because you ALL were clamoring (all one of you) to hear my thoughts, here are my thoughts. I do not like gamin or Tock for starting the bandwagon to kill me, but they have their points and I wasn't being active. I agree that killing not active people on the first day with barely any clues is better than killing an active player with some sorta-clues. With this is mind...

Dear lord, I just get home from school to see I'm 4 pages behind already and already being accused? What the heck?

This is how I felt, and how Alice felt last game. Following the same logic as the people who voted for me, I feel like unless Alice really does start getting herself together, she should be voted for. I don't like the whole Silent Noise business, but I don't feel like lynching the "inspector", no matter how Silent Noise-y he is (hee hee how ironic).

This is my reasoning. No hard feelings for almost/possibly being lynched.

Garrison
03-02-2010, 07:43 PM
Alright, I guess BodhiTraveller is right, let's talk things out. How about this Umby, since you had to play catch up, you've read this thread a little differently than we have. Maybe this has given you a slightly different point of view than the rest of us. When I read through the first game, I found myself on a completely different track than the actual players, but everything was already said and done by a good month. Luckily for you, you still have a chance to use this "reader's intuition" to come up with something.

I know that's a terrible idea, but it's better than just running around in circles, we need good ideas. I guess I'll take this opportunity to state a few things:

1)I'm not convinced that lynching Alice is the best move, but I'm not entirely opposed to the idea either
2)Silent Noise should be left alone
3)I retract my accusation of Umby for the time being.

We need to talk things through. Who cares that west has beaten us to night phase, they only did so by lynching an alter ego. Just lynching and getting day 1 over with without gaining a great deal of information is only going to help the mafia. Information is our best weapon.

Umby
03-02-2010, 07:48 PM
All right, I just need one more retraction to be on the trail to smiles and and happiness, if it wasn't that staying alive means being mowed down pretty quickly anyway in the end.

Alice is just proposed. But what else do we have to work on? At least, from what I read, there isn't much past Silent Noise stirring things up, and I don't want to mess with him either.

Nerdy
03-02-2010, 07:52 PM
I'll just kill Alice and get one bad player off the board. I accuse Alice.

Well my rationale for accusing you was that a bad player is better than an absent player. Since you're no longer absent I'll go back to accusing the bad one.

I accuse Alice.

Sorry for my lack of skill in this game but I should probably say that killing me off is a bad idea.

Brickroad
03-02-2010, 08:08 PM
Sorry for my lack of skill in this game but I should probably say that killing me off is a bad idea.

Killing me off is a bad idea too!

Hey, is there anyone out there who feels like it would be a good idea to kill them off? If so please speak up, and this game will be real easy!

Merus
03-02-2010, 08:18 PM
Killing me off is a bad idea too!

Hey, is there anyone out there who feels like it would be a good idea to kill them off? If so please speak up, and this game will be real easy!

Oh, me, me! If you kill me the violence stops!

Eddie
03-02-2010, 08:22 PM
Don't know if Umby will survive the night, but a quick note for all you new players:

EVERYTHING you say and do is going to be judged. Right now there are 20 other people trying to figure out if I've got an angle with this post. I think I've built up a certain level of trust within the group, but that is by no means absolute.

As we saw in the first game, you can't hope a good defense speech alone will save you. You've got to own up to everything you say! If you get lynched because of your actions, please note that it's not the judgement of the lynch mob that is to blame, it's your own.

For those who feel it's unfair to log on 16 hours later and find yourself inches away from the noose, well... too bad. The sad part is that we can't even trust that you're telling us the truth when you say that you were working/sleeping/etc. It could all be an elaborate defense! So please, don't take it personally.

- Eddie