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Destil
05-11-2010, 09:03 PM
Night 0001

Spineshark (Apr 13):
Night 1 is now officially ended! Please stop using this wave or I might have to smite you. Guesty was a Standard Process.
I received Phantoon's decision on Corruption. Sent word to Destil about his change in plans and told him what to do, so hopefully we can get him in here long enough to at least see the strategy going into tomorrow. I can't announce that I'm extending the night or everyone will just metagame to the conclusion that a new Rogue has been added already, but I can just not do it and leave some sort of suggestion that I went to bed early if necessary. It fits well into the role I'm playing, which is something along the lines of "GM who messes it up a lot"

Nich (Apr 11):
Here's a thread for "who do we kill"? My suggestion tonight (before the real brain trust arrives) would be Destil. He's the smartest and the most vocal of the bunch, and I feel like he has the know-how to analyze what hapened on day 1 better than anyone. I want him dead ASAP and I don't think we're going to be able to do it through lynching. Let's cut him off now.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
I think Comb Stranger and possibly Koala are smarter, but would be down with Destil as well.

Nich (Apr 12):
Uh, koala's on our side. Wait, no he isn't! Haha, Wave means I never said that!
I disagree on koala. Koala is one of the many people during day 1 I had to double-check against my inbox to make sure he *wasn't* on our side. Even now, as you can see, I get confused.

Chady (Apr 12):
Glad I'm not the only one who had to stop and check whose side Koala is on.

Phantoon (Apr 12):
As discussed further down, I'm up for killing Guesty and turning Destil.

Chady (Apr 12):
If you want to convert Destil at some point, then Guesty is fine with me for killin'.

Queen Possum (Apr 12):
Ok, I'm down with Guesty. Hopefully I'll have more time the next couple of days to get a feel for what's going on.
Google wave is really hard to use btw.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 13):
All right, I'm on board for Guesty. I blame Nich for convincing me if we're wrong!

Destil (Apr 13):
This is the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me, Nich.

Nich (Apr 11):
The bonus with Destil is he never got around to posting his own suspicion lists and his only accusation was Eddie, who racked up plenty of suspicion already. Offing Destil might make it easier to get Eddie lynched tomorrow. (Poor guy... he'll never see day 3.)

Chady (Apr 12):
After re-reading portions of the thread, Destil seems like a fine choice. Whoever we pick probably shouldn't be somebody who was on the Nodal bandwagon. (EDIT: my kill Guesty vote is above, wave is weird)

Nich (Apr 11):
The more I think about it, the better the groundwork for lynching Eddie looks. Brick has already been buddying up to him on day 1. If he keeps it up on day 2, the scanner might assume they're in league.

Nich (Apr 12):
Putting in my official vote for whacking Guesty.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
I'm for whacking Guesty too, unless someone has a better target in mind.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
Okay, I'll vote to whack Guesty.

Merus (Apr 12):
I'll vote for Guesty, as well.

Phantoon (Apr 12):
NB everybody - Destil has been converted. Don't anyone get him lynched before he can do some harm to townies.

Nich (Apr 12):
I think Destil is about the last person who has to worry about being lynched, barring a bizarrely canny scanner. He was super helpful on day 1, was instrumental in M2E, and didn't garner any accusations or even suspicions on day 1 of this game. He's going to have to work at getting lynched before we worry about that.
#85=funniest post in the thread

Spineshark (Apr 11):
destil doesn't know who's in the mafia
also but damn you are a tough act to follow, you know that?

Nich (Apr 11):
Argh this google wave thing is not... intuitive.

Chady (Apr 11):
Why can't it have normal scrollbars!?!

Spineshark (Apr 11):
Because then it wouldn't be crazy-glitchy.

Merus (Apr 11):
The entire game, I was thinking 'jesus christ I'm never going to top dtsund's death posts'. I think everyone who runs one of these is going to feel like they're in some other person's shadow.
Also, irony is fun and I enjoy it.

Spineshark (Apr 11):
which again, is why 85 made me laugh so hard. "Mafia are more likely to second accusations because it's less conspicuous!" And then later you realized that was what you did.
Or maybe even right away. I don't read minds.

Merus (Apr 11):
Hee hee, I noticed in game one that if I copped to following the same strategies as what I said the mafia were doing, people tended to ignore it. Thought I'd try it deliberately!
Hey, do we want to get the other rogues in here?

Spineshark (Apr 11):
I'm trying. Sorta.

Merus (Apr 11):
The ones that have Wave access show up in my contacts list, so it's fairly easy for me to add them. Might be easier for me to find them, then you add them to your contacts list got days 2+.

Spineshark (Apr 11):
I tried adding them but they're not showing up here on the sidebar for whatever reason.

Merus (Apr 11):
Hmm. Oh well, I added some foo's that were convenient or online. Heya foo's!

Spineshark (Apr 11):
I'm not too worried about the processes, just the results <_<

Nich (Apr 11):
Alright, I think I got the hang of this, sort of. Kind of weird how there's so many different "threads." Anyway, thanks to Nodal for having a terrible idea that was unwittingly the best idea anyone had all day.

Nich (Apr 11):
Who's our Virus, by the way?

Spineshark (Apr 11):
Oh yeah, I felt like an idiot for not explicitly putting it in the PMs (just that his name was on top while everyone else was in alphabetical order). It's Phantoon.

Nich (Apr 11):
Gotcha. Am I alone, guys, in thinking we should save that power for later? Better to have someone start to be trusted by the town than just waste it right now, I think. (Using it on the scanner would be silly IMO.)

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
Definitely save Virus Power for when we have a good target to use it on. Scanner is such a clusterfuck that it needn't be him, but Comb Stranger might be a candidate based on what I've seen so far.

Chady (Apr 11):
I think saving it for later would be best, but we have to weigh that against the possibility that Phantoon could get lynched during the day if he draws suspicion (which he hasn't yet).

Nich (Apr 11):
Yeah, Phantoon definitely needs to play the most careful game of any of us. I don't think he's on anyone's radar for either accusing or scanning, but he needs to stay that way without posting SO little that his lack of contribution starts to draw attention in itself.

Chady (Apr 11):
The immediate problem I can think of is that you (Nich) and Brick are likely to be two of the first people "scanned."

Nich (Apr 11):
I agree. Brickroad will be first. We have to watch tomorrow for the first people to accuse Brickroad, because it's very likely that one of them is the scanner trying to kill a rogue without revealing himself. You saw the two of us trying to break up the idea of "Nichroad" today, at least.

Spineshark (Apr 11):
I've been telling VE most of the things I know about the game since he's not in it, and that was making him laugh so much.

Chady (Apr 11):
I thought it was funny that Nodal got lynched for basically taking Comb Stranger's idea and pushing it to the nth degree.

Nich (Apr 11):
spine: The fact that we're both rogues, the two of us squabbling, or the term "Nichroad"? :)

Spineshark (Apr 11):
The arguing, mostly (he knows all the roles, and got a good laugh out of the whole team)

Spineshark (Apr 11):
Incidentally, I feel like I probably added one too many (it was 8 before I rerolled when Giant Head joined)

Nich (Apr 11):
I think 9 is fine. It's the same ratio as the last games, isn't it? We had 6 in M2W to 13 citizens.

Spineshark (Apr 12):
I know, and the higher-profile people are likely to die, it's just a huge jump in the roles from last time and I wonder a little if the town has enough leeway (they really only get five whiffs unless they get Phantoon before he corrupts)

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
good!

Queen Possum (Apr 12):

Merus (Apr 11):
I think Comb Stranger's point is something we're really going to have to think about. He's absolutely right: any smart mafia players would be going for Brickroad or Nich first, and it's going to be hard for us to put forward the opinion that they're just trying to get Brickroad lynched by leaving him alive, because it's clear that they tried that in game 2 and it ended in horrible terrible death.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
There's definitely the argument that can be made that neither of them are actually that good (sorry bros). True or not, and I'm not saying it is, Destil has brought up and I've encouraged that Brick's reputation is stronger than he is, and a number of people discredit Nich's actual skill in game 2 in favor of "steamroll with the inspector

Nich (Apr 12):
A-Are you God? :O

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
That is one thing I have been called, among many.
role." If push comes to shove, it can be suggested - possibly by the men themselves in a defense post - that the mafia are ignoring them to let them cause chaos among the citizens with bad ideas.
Nich I am watching you touch yourself STOP THAT

Nich (Apr 11):
Yeah, I don't know how to handle the whole Brick thing. I feel like we should all be distancing ourselves from him, but on the other hand, I worry that I overdid it on day 1 as it stood. And if the rest of us all do it too, that could look as suspicious as if we sided with him.
I think the thing both of us are going to have to do is to take the line that "leaders get killed in this game" and continue supporting other people's ideas rather than putting forward any of our own. (Killing Destil would be a good basis for us saying so.) I think we both made good strides toward this in day 1, with Brick just repeating his "let's let the newbs live" plan and me siding with Nodal's death for the same dumb reasons I'd typically give for killing people in M2W. We can argue that we're both still in the game because the mafia don't see us as genuine threats.

Merus (Apr 12):
But that's entirely the point: anyone who doesn't see you as genuine threats are stupid. It's not going to be particularly plausible. I'm guessing that we'll have to come up with some way to suggest that they're saving you for later, or -- more likely -- that they figure that you've been turned and are expecting the town to lynch you two while they go after the quieter ones.

Nich (Apr 12):
I think the Virus and Comb Stranger's point will work in our favor here. We can say that the mafia didn't kill us because they know the town is eventually going to do that work for them. This becomes a harder line to fall on as time goes by (because by our own logic one of us probably IS a rogue after a certain point) but it might work as a short-term fix.

Merus (Apr 12):
Short-term fix is probably fine for now. Ideally we'll get into a position where Someone comes up with a Plan; I'm pretty well placed to be that someone.
We should probably continue this down at the bottom; this can get pretty confusing.

Merus (Apr 11):
Are you having fun there?
Hey, how is that the funniest post in the thread? It's not the one that made Destil spittake, that's for darn sure.

Merus (Apr 11):
Hey, does anyone know how to write "get out of my account you motherfucker" in Chinese? I suddenly have a need for it.

Chady (Apr 11):
Going to bed tonight, I'll be on tomorrow night, hopefully there'll be tons of discussion to ponder over then.

Merus (Apr 11):
Okay, so it looks like Google has given control of my account back to me, so hopefully I won't lose it before this Chinese fucker works out how to get in again.
I want to put forward a different target: Byron. Yes, Byron's kind of an idiot, but he's loud, and with a little information loud + thinking is a bad combination. It's the same reason Brick, Nich and I survived, and it's a dangerous combination.
Alternatively, it might be worth trying to use kills to set up some of us as "probably clean".

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
I'd leave Byron alive - for tonight - if for no other reason than that he's a possible lynch. Not as strong as Eddie, but strong.

Chady (Apr 12):
I agree. Everyone was ready to lynch Byron until Nodal posted his crazy idea (which wasn't actually that crazy, and it might've worked for him on day 2).

Mr. J (Apr 12):
No need to lynch Byron at all. I expect the town to lynch him either tomorrow or Day 3. We have better uses of our hit than him.

Nich (Apr 11):
I'd thought about Byron too, but I think it'll be much easier to get him lynched than Destil. He was pretty gung-ho for Nodal, more than any of us were. If we can point him toward another citizen tomorrow, it'll be cake to get him lynched day 3. Or just to kill him tomorrow night if we're too worried about him then. I still think Destil is the priority, because he's just as loud as Byron and much smarter.

Merus (Apr 11):
This is true! Destil's a smart cookie.

Merus (Apr 12):
I'm kind of hoping that Nodal didn't make me - his other three targets were pretty stupid, but he scared the shit out of me when I was number 2 on his list for basically being a hypocrite. I'm just glad that it was Nodal that caught me and not anyone smart.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
I think Nodal's smarter than we give him credit for. Honestly, I saw the logic in his plan, and (admittedly unbeknownst to him) it would have nailed a round-1 high-profile mafia lynch to boot.

Nich (Apr 12):
Oh sure. I mentally substituted "anyone the town believes to be smart" for "anyone smart" in Merus' post.

Nich (Apr 12):
I'm not worried. It's easy enough to argue, if people start to say we should lynch someone on Nodal's list, to say "okay, let's start from the top." Then Byron's taken care of and it's easy to discredit the rest of his list.
That's why I don't think we should kill Byron tonight. If he's dead, that starts to draw attention to Nodal's list, and you're the second name on it. We don't want people associating the list with the night kill for any reason. It should stay associated with "that Nodal guy, what an idiot, huh?"

Merus (Apr 12):
That is an excellent point! Self-interest is always an excellent point. I've already planted the seeds that killing people who put forward stupid ideas is stupid because the real mafia are more subtle, and if we lynch Byron tomorrow I can use that in my defence.

Nich (Apr 12):
I've decided the best thing about being on the rogue team is you can edit the Wave messages to your heart's content.

Merus (Apr 12):
Yeah, it's lovely to be able to fiddle with your arguments.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
One thing I would caution against is the Comb Stranger effect. We want to be sure we don't accidentally exhonerate any citizens by killing the wrong target. That would be my only caution against killing Destil tonight - that it might make it look too much like Eddie's being framed. Of course, we can possibly doublethink that into oblivion if we need to, but since I'm on record as a straight-shooter (and intend to stay that way, as it's in character) someone else would have to.
Also, I'm realizing that in lieu of power roles, doublethink-as-obfuscatory-tactic is pretty viable here, and that makes me really happy.

Nich (Apr 12):
I'm not sure what you mean about the Comb Stranger effect.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
From game 1 - Mafia tried to kill Comb Stranger to set Merus up as guily because CS was suspicious of him. Angel also caught on and managed to exhonerate both CS and Merus for the rest of the game. Just gotta be careful of not making it too obvious, although the reverse (make someone look guilty) is still viable.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
So, as I see it, the top 3 possible targets to push for during the day:
Eddie
Byron
Pappy
All three have been fingered as suspicious and actually accused by other players (all citizens at that, iirc). Lynching them will probably be easy rides, relatively speaking. Do we want to work together on this or just play our own hands fragmented to not appear blocked together?

Nich (Apr 12):
If it's Byron (whom I see as the simplest target since he's the only one named on Nodal's list, which people are going to want to fall back on now that he's proven innocent) I'm going to have to be against it. I was kind of with him on day 1 and intend to stay that way for him to be lynched to build up my own citizen affiliation.

Chady (Apr 12):
I accused Pappy, but I think that's fine because I want to find a way to get on the wagon tomorrow anyway, just to mix things up.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
I think Pappy is actually our best target tomorrow because he plays so erratically. He doesn't really put forward too many awesome amazing ideas and we can still use his Game 1 outing against him. That being said, we don't want to push too hard too early. I think we should see where the town goes tomorrow and if they latch onto a target fairly easily, like they did today, we can just use that. If they spend a while deliberating though, I would be willing to front a case against pappy.

Nich (Apr 12):
Oh I see. Well, if the town accuses Eddie on these grounds and it picks up steam, we can nudge it along, but if not, no need to stick our necks out and risk it. Better to have Brick continue to buddy up alongside Eddie during day 2 for when Brick is eventually found out. Especially since if Eddie IS killed and found guilty, that'll be two Brick has voiced objections to that turn out to be standards, which is a win in Brick's column.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
I see no reason for me to maintain any distance from Eddie, considering he and I play the Civilian game so similarly and we're constantly agreeing with each other anyway. If Paul were to come along in a day or two and beat up on us a little for being stupid, more's the better, because the Standards will delete me and then take a long, hard look at Eddie.
So I want Eddie alive... for now.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
I agree on this one, Eddie is another easy target that we can let the citizens lynch. I suspect that Brick will get offed on Day 3 when the inspector inspects Nich and brick. That way Day 4 we can dispose of Eddie really easily.

Merus (Apr 12):
As I mentioned earlier, I'd love to try and turn the Comb Stranger effect on the town, and make a kill that exonerates one of us.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
That'd be great, but we'll need to set it up a little. Just a little - can't be too over-the-top or it could end up being conspicuous (of course if it's too subtle no one will get it). We also kind of have to keep our eyes open for good opportunities, and I don't know that we have one for now.
Also: just for clarification do you mean by making an "obvious" kill and then playing off "of course it's not me, I would never do something so obvious. Clearly I'm being framed" when people suspect you for it? Or
How would we go about setting up such a thing? End a day phase at public and possibly dangerous odds with someone we plan on killing. Who would be good? We'd need someone who will go after/publicly suspect one/two of us without being able to drive it home and actually lynch us. Has anyone already suspected any of us besides Brickroad?

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
No, but I singled Mr. J out as someone who needs to go on the watch list, citing his subtle play in M2E. J and I clashed quite a bit in the previous game after all.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
I think me and Brick can argue fairly easily, but we should hold off on it for now. I'll probabaly argue a point or two of his tomorrow and then we can go from there. I don't know how up the town is on lynching me though. Brick pointed out an obvious thing and no one really latched on to it.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
Hi guys! I don't have access to this Wave nonsense from work and anyway I can't even figure it the hell out. My first instinct in this situation is to hop on AIM and ask McDohl, and I had just about sent the message before I realized how big a fucking blunder that would be. So now I'm just clicking around randomly.
I think I'm about caught up. Some thoughts:
1) Nich, Paul or I are definitely the first Scanner target, no question, followed by the other two as targets #2 and #3. We have an All-Star cast here, but that comes at the expense of the Scanner finding us very quickly. As a result, folks like chady, Queen Possum and Kayma are going to be instrumental to our success. The town's going to be so busy dealing with us big names that you guys are going to be able to sneak in and BUST SUM HEDZ.
2) Due to the lack of angels, and the auto-lynch policy that is apparently in play now, the Scanner likely will not come forward until he has a couple hits. We DEFINITELY need to pay a LOT of attention to anyone who starts getting uppity with me or Nich or Paul on day two.

Nich (Apr 12):
As an addendum to this, if this happens, the rest of you should not come to our defense. Let us handle ourselves. You don't want to be caught siding with a proven mafioso against the scanner.
Whichever of us it happens to--by which I mean getting accused with somebody's very first post in the day--should ride their accuser hard. If we don't let up, we might be able to force them to reveal with just one name, getting themselves auto-lynched to prove themselves.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
Also, if one of you guys gets fingered by the inspector (after he reveals) don't start flailing about. If your gonna die, just go quietly.
3) I think we should use the conversion right away. I feel like the conversion itself is nowhere near as powerful as the psychological damage it inflicts on Standards, and it's not like they'll ever know we used it anyway. I say we grab Destil or someone right away, and let the Standards spend the rest of the game tripping over each other trying to figure out whether we've used it or not.

Nich (Apr 12):
Brick, it's because of point 2 that I don't think we should use the conversion right away. Let's wait and see who starts stumping for you, Paul, or I tomorrow and, if there's more than one candidate for scanner, use the conversion as a second kill to double our chances of nabbing them before they can start something.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
I second converting Destil. The guy has put out some really good ideas and been keeping the bad ideas in check. If we kill him everyone is going to latch onto what he said today. If we convert him and have him keep throwing out good ideas for a day or two, then we cna sue his trust to put the town in a corner.

Nich (Apr 12):
If we're going to do it, and we seem to be mostly in agreement about converting Destil, let's do it ASAP so we can get him in here and help strategize for day 2.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
Yah, I think that he would provide a good perspective. We've all been looking for where we can insinuate ourselves. He's just been looking for what he can do to help the civvies win.
4) My plan for tomorrow includes bringing the hammer down HARD on Loki. I'm going to bang this "past history" drum until they march me to the gallows, see. I'll make a big show about how Loki was identical in both games despite having a different role, and not being useful to the civvies in either case. I also plan to bring the shit down on Calorie Mate if he continues his "let's just have fun!" antics.
I've been waiting to post this all night. YARGH.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
Calorie Mate is another easy target imo. He hasn't really contributed much and I don't see anything that he can use as a defense. I'll put him on a good Day 3 lynch.

Chady (Apr 12):
So, last night I was thinking that if there was any way we could get the normals to think that we used the Virus early on Brickroad or Nich then that would be an awesome thing. But I couldn't think of a way for it to be done.

Nich (Apr 12):
Not sure this is a good play even if we could do it. We don't want the town comfortably thinking the Virus threat has passed in the event that the scanner does come forward with a bunch of innocent names (not likely with this crowd). We want them thinking "okay, which one of those innocents got corrupted."

Queen Possum (Apr 12):
Sorry kids, I just got a chance to get on. While I wouldn't suggest doing it tonight, Giant Head needs to die. We're played too many games of Werewolf for him not to suspect me eventually. In the meantime, Destil, Loki or Calories sound good to me. The more they look like they know what they're doing, the more they gotta go.

Phantoon (Apr 12):
Only just got the chance to get on. I think everyone did pretty well so far - I was checking our posts for suspicious bits and we didn't do anything particularly obvious as far as I can see. I tried not to post too much but I did try to push the "scanner must die immediately" bandwagon. I'm hoping that the scanner will be among those who will have opposed that idea - it will be quite galling to get a role that in the previous games was a gateway to heroics but this time makes you death fodder. With that in mind I suggest Destil - he was fighting the idea pages after everyone else had given up on the point. Obviously if we can successfully nail the scanner fast we don't have to worry about Brick getting scanned.

Phantoon (Apr 12):
Another thought though, if we think Destil is a threat I could always turn him. Rather than kill the brightest townie we could instead put them to good use.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
I personally like Destil more for conversation, and I worry that if we hit someone who was vocally against the auto-lynch it will be a bit too "on the nose". I think we should either take a calculated shot against the possible Scanner, or hit someone relatively quiet. It's easy to turn the tide against vocal players after all, as Nodal proves.

Phantoon (Apr 12):
Another question is how late do we want to wait before I strike? If I leave it really late there's a chance I'll get someone who has already been scanned and we'll have a really good idea as to who our threats are.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
If we decide not to convert early, we NEED a plan in place to save you in case you get into trouble. If I get killed we're -1, but if you get killed before you convert we're effectively -2.

Phantoon (Apr 12):
Yeah. I've been really very careful about not drawing too much attention and appearing helpful so that I can draw on that later if I get cornered. Don't want to screw it up for the gang.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
I think e should convert ASAP. The civvies seem to be playin the virus really poorly. They think we'll convert a confirmed, when that would be a horrible play. The virus wants to convert someone who they can't prove innocent, but trust enough to believe they are. Also, if we use it early, we don't have to worry about protecting Phantoon. If we do use it tonight, then we need to keep the virus paranoia going. Don't be afraid to shoot someone's plan down by saying, but the virus would convert them. The virus is an unknown quantity in this game and we should use that as much as possible. Remember how little people thought of the oracle before game 2 and then all of a sudden it became really important.

Nich (Apr 12):
I'm okay converting Destil tonight if you think we can usefully make his game work for us. He can't change his behavior too much without giving himself away, and he's not as prone to risky plays as most of the rest of us. I personally think he'd be better off dead tonight and save the conversion for tomorrow night.

Phantoon (Apr 12):
I'm going to read the thread closely and see who came out against auto kill of the scanner. It might be worth consideration.

Nich (Apr 12):
Eddie had a list of them on some page you can probably start with if you just search Eddie's posts.

Phantoon (Apr 12):
I know. He's a helpful guy :)
People I also feel may be dangerous to us are Comb Stranger and dtsund. I'm wary of Pappy - the angel thing in the first game was a bit dense but he probably did the right thing last game.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 13):
probably -> definitely
And I'm definitely in agreement on CS and dtsund being people to keep our eyes on. dtsund did jump the gun on Pappy, but not necessarily for bad reason. CS is sharp.

Nich (Apr 12):
Yeah, but what's Pappy's non-powered game like? Nobody knows. dtsund I don't really have a read on because he ran game 1 and then died night 1 in M2W. Comb Stranger I'm agreed on, though, but not necessarily tonight.

Phantoon (Apr 12):
Right, Eddie's list is as follows:
Byron
Guesty
Merus (ho ho)
Calories Man
Destil
Not sure how comprehensive it is.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
I think we can get Byron lynched, and Destil is a great conversion target. Of that list I think we should kill Merus.
Hmm. Wait, better not.
Okay, Guesty.

Nich (Apr 12):
I'll join you in voting for Guesty if you can address my concern above. How do we make Destil's careful, analytical game work for us? Or is it just enough that it won't be working for them?

Phantoon (Apr 12):
I third Guesty, I think. He's not a conversion target.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
Honestly if the auto-lynch topic comes up again I intend to just continue being totally obstinate about it, acting like it's a foregone conclusion that auto-lynch is the best choice, and calling anyone who disagrees retarded. If he can't weather that storm we might get him to crack. Aside from that, anything that can be thought can be OVER-thought; see also: Paul in M1. If it looks like he's chasing a red herring, maybe give him a little push in that direction. Keep him distracted.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 13):
Oh I am already well on the path to being this game's designated over-thinking brain-muddler and wouldn't have it any other way.

Nich (Apr 12):
No I mean, if we convert him. Same deal? He acts as normal and the rest of us work to "trip him up" with him being more willing to entertain our ideas than he normally would?

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
I think either you or I are going to have to lay down under the bus, Nich. When that happens, if we can convince the town we'd been converted Night 1, Destil can lead us to the endgame. He's smart and analytical, but the Virus had already acted, see? So he can't be a bad guy. It's less about how true it is and more about how inclined people are to believe it.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 13):
How would you go about convincing them you've been converted without trying to make it look that way? You'd have to change your behavior now (or whenever you're ostensibly converted) so they have something to look back on and notice.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 13):
It's a moot point now that protecting Phantoon isn't a priority, but I was thinking something along the lines of a monumental fucking slip-up, like complaining openly in the thread about how hard Google Wave was to use, then quickly trying to backpedal with "i need it for work or something". Not an issue now though; I'm gonna spend my days helping the citizens win.

Destil (Apr 13):
Mention how awesome you think it is in the Content & hapyness thread. I've already baited a meta-gamer in there...

Nich (Apr 12):
It's true, one of us is going to have to die and we're going to have to convince the town we weren't always on this side. The problem is, we're saying that as rogues. It can't come from us. It's going to have to come from QP or Kayma or somebody, maybe Merus since no one suspects him much yet. We're not going to be able to convince anyone ourselves that we got converted--it's too much something the rogues would want the town to believe.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
If it's me, I think it's best my accuser be Paul. If it's you, I think it's best it be me.
There's going to be a powerful psychological block in place: nobody is going to believe THIS MANY GREAT PLAYERS are Mafia. Shit, we didn't even believe it. So if one of us comes out hard against the other, and the Scanner confirms (or vice-versa), the hivemind might give the accusing party a free pass. Even if they don't, and lynch them the following day, it can be easily rationalized as "Brick got Scanned, Paul came out hard against him. OF COURSE they're going to convert Paul after that."
ENTER and SHIFT+ENTER work backwards in this fucking program. GAAAAAH. Anyway if we can convince the citizenry we've used our convert we have a powerful weapon... and I'm convinced that with this line-up we can do it.

Spineshark (Apr 12):
heh, I actually mentioned to nich that I thought your biggest advantage was an "incredulity bonus"

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 13):
I'll be on the lookout for any chance to lead a lynch mob against you. It's what I've always wanted to do, after all!

Nich (Apr 12):
Yeah, that works for me. Is this our day 2 strategy, then? Should we wait to see if the scanner actually goes for one of us first or act preemptively?

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
Both, actually. You and I have a natural animosity there ("I thought you'd be better at this, based on our AIM chats!") and me and Paul have a history of fighting anyway. We can plant the seeds without it looking like anything other than our regular game, wait for the scan, then play the rest.

Nich (Apr 12):
Alright. Well I had a lot of stuff written here but actually, try not to go TOO overboard. We don't want to end up convincing the town that... hmm. Actually I have no idea how strong or reserved to go, because let's say you accuse me hard and you end up being the one swinging: I get a free pass after that. I guess just play it by ear.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
I think we should use the free pass for the accuser and simply off anyone who shows passive aggression towards your acceptance. Don't off the people vocal about it, but off those who are becoming converted.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
Well I'm not going to out-and-out accuse you. Like I said my plan for tomorrow is to go hard after Loki (low-key... get it?). Anyway flat-out accusing folks isn't my style. Gotta stay consistent! Good old Brickroad, nice and predictable.

Nich (Apr 12):
True. It is mine, though, but my accusation isn't part of the plan. I'm just gonna go after Eddie.
Anyway, I'm liking the way this plan is shaping up. Let's get Phantoon to convert Destil. And kill Guesty?

Phantoon (Apr 12):
That would enable me to stay in character too. I'm always more involved Day 2 and I can be if my dying isn't as big an issue.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
If you want to save the conversation, Phantoon, I'll agree to bus myself if it looks like you're in trouble. I'm convinced I can make such a fantastic blunder that the Standards will have no choice but to abandon whatever plan they're set on and lynch me instead. (And let's face it -- some of these people have been dying to lynch me since JANUARY.)

Phantoon (Apr 12):
Why don't we put it to the vote: should I act tonight? If it's generally agreed that it's a good idea then I'm all for it. I'd sooner not lose you to save my hide.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
I vote we convert Destil, either tonight or tomorrow night. (Might want to give the game time to mature a little more... not sure. But I'm convinced we should do it early.)
I'm also voting to kill Guesty, because hey why not.
Unless we want to get really meta-gamey and make the biggest dick move ever! If we assume at least part of the Mafia were hand-picked by spine, we can assume the Scanner was too, and who better than Eddie? I bet if we kill him night one he never wants to play again. =)

Phantoon (Apr 12):
Hah ha ha! That's evil.

Spineshark (Apr 12):
You don't have to believe me, but I did get y'all randomly (some of you twice!) I was afraid I'd have to shimmy Merus back in after I'd already asked him about wave, but it didn't become necessary.

Nich (Apr 12):
As I said to you on AIM, I think dtsund's randomizer script is itself rogue.

Nich (Apr 12):
Let's put kill votes up in the thread at the top so it doesn't get too confusing. Oh man I would totally vote Eddie if I didn't think he'd be so easy to lynch tomorrow.
Anyway I second converting Destil, tonight if we're gonna do it. No sense letting him work for the town any longer than necessary.

Phantoon (Apr 12):
Yeah, I agree. If I'm right and the scanner is in that group we have a 50% chance of killing / turning them on Night 1.

Phantoon (Apr 12):
Kayma, it's probably a good idea to get slightly more involved tomorrow. Your lack of posting was noticed by a few and has been repeated on the digest. If people didn't notice it at the time it's had attention brought to it now.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 13):
Am I the only one who thinks the digest is a bad idea in a metagamey way? I don't like the possibility of having stuff come out wrong due to one person's framing, forgetfulness, attention, bias, etc.

Phantoon (Apr 13):
It's equally dangerous to both sides as the chronicler has an opinion as to what's going on and it leeches into the synopsis. Don't think we can do much about it and it'll probably mislead the town as much as help them. I'll be annoyed if it costs us though.

Kayma (Apr 13):
Noted. I'll do my thang.
The digest is... interesting. Good or bad, it's certainly there.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
I don't know. People are generally pretty forgiving of low postcount as long as they're apologetic about it, and don't completely drop out of the game entirely. Considering how many vocal big shots we've got on staff, it might be better to leave Kayma stay on the edge of perception, offering just a post or two each day. A little more substance would be nice, just back it up with something like "sorry guys but I have work/school/wife/kids/superpowers and can only check in once a day". This might keep him in the game and off everyone's hit-list.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
Kaytma and possum can simply play it low for the first part of the game. Having something we can fall back on if we run into trouble would be good. There are enough people in the game that not posting too much is not very conspicuous. Just make sure you check in every once in a while.

Phantoon (Apr 12):
I'm sure there's a "playing possum" joke in there somewhere. It makes sense for some of our number to keep quieter. I won't be anywhere near as vocal as Brick or Nich, but I'll get more involved and prod whoever I think I can.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 13):
Only thing is to make sure they still post substance. If they post but it's all one-liners like Shinji's/Weasel's last couple games, they're gonna take fire.

Nich (Apr 12):
Aren't you the guy whose idea is to go after Loki tomorrow for his consistent lack of participation? And went after fanboymaster yesterday for the same thing? I agree with Phantoon. Kayma doesn't have to become the most vocal person in the thread, but he does need to post to an extent that people don't realize how little he's posting.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 12):
I'm not going to go after Loki because he's quiet; I'm going to go after him because he plays the same silly, backseat game regardless of whether he's Citizen or Mafia. That accusation can't be applied to Kayma because he doesn't have a history with us. (Of course, you guys aren't the ones I have to convince, heh.)
I think he (and possibly chady) should post just enough that they can't be accused of not participating, but not so much that anyone actually notices them or any of their ideas. And they should have a believable excuse/explanation in their back pocket in case someone calls them to task on it. "Sorry guys, school's been a bitch this week, yeah I think we should lynch xyz for abc-reason."

Spineshark (Apr 12):
I'm going to have to say that if I *know* someone's being quiet intentionally and lampshading it, that's edging toward Annoying Metagame territory. Lying low is fine, it's accounted for in the rules/the fact that everyone wants to kill quiet people, but I don't want people to get out of it by blatantly fishing for sympathy =/ Truly, the disadvantage of having me here, hahaha
That said, I know it's kinda crazy to imagine, but some people just don't spend as much time on TT as you and I do. Totally cool with that!

Nich (Apr 12):
What? Who are these people? TT is the most important thing on Earth.

Spineshark (Apr 12):
I'm not going to indicate how much I might agree with that!

Chady (Apr 12):
Yeah, when I posted that I was busy this weekend, it's because I was actually busy. I've already been trying to hit a sweet spot in-between posting too little and posting too much. My threshold is going to be one or two posts ahead of those running on the low side, and I'm going to stick with it, unless pressed not to. Luckily, I have noob status on my side, and any accusations of me not contributing enough can be backed up by "inexperience" and "intimidated by the more established members of the community" and whatnot. And what's good is that those things are kind of true.

Nich (Apr 12):
Well in that case we're in agreement. I just don't want us to get complacent and think "it doesn't matter how much we post, we can convince the town to do whatever we want."
QP also needs to post more now that she's back.

Queen Possum (Apr 12):
I'll post more now that the first day is over - I never really have opinions on the first day, even when I know who is and isn't mafia.
I'm only saying this because every game there comes a time when the town decides to lynch someone who's been quiet. We'll be able to influence which quiet guy this is, but it'll help if none of our guys have been the most quiet.

Phantoon (Apr 12):
I don't think he should go crazy but he should get some background level so he stays off our inevitable list of inactive players.
Yeah, exactly Nich.

Chady (Apr 12):
I think it goes without saying that nobody on our side should get deleted by not posting at all, but I would like to reiterate it again. This game may be slanted more towards our team, but with the luminaries we have as rogues we may need every last person. There is going to come a day when Nich and Brickroad are gone, and the rest of us are going to have to carry the flag.

Queen Possum (Apr 12):
So I just want to clarify - we're whacking who now?

Nich (Apr 12):
We're leaning towards Guesty, and corrupting Destil. The thread for whacking votes is up near the top.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
Okay, finally was able to get on here. First some ideas about an over-all plan.
1. We need to agree on a general direction to move the game. I think that we should prevent any huge consensus build-up early on. We need to use the unknown parts of the rules to our advantage. We should ideally split into two camps on the number of rogues issue. One group should go really low with 6-7, the other should go just a little low with 8-9. We should make sure they underestimate how much room they have to work with. If we can get them to make some "acceptable" citizen kills; then we can push them into the zone where we just kind of win randomly. Focus on making accusations based on poor judgement/bad ideas. We can easily just say that putting forward a bad idea is a clearly mafia move.

Nich (Apr 12):
This is all fine up to a point. But really, I find that the citizens will just as easily kill themselves with inertia. Did you see all the people eager to string Nodal up yesterday, half of whom admitted they didn't really think he was rogue? Did you see Byron and Eddie get into a completely pointless duel they've vowed to continue as long as they're both alive? Did you see Tock paint a big ol' target on his back saying "HEY GUYS CAN WE JUST KILL SOMEONE AND GET TO NIGHT ALREADY?"
The number one thing I learned from M2W about how to play a rogue is: don't get greedy. Byron wasn't on my radar at all until he supported a bad idea too enthusiastically and when the badness of the idea revealed itself, so too did his role in the game. McDohl, on the other hand, played it cool and wriggled out of my accusation by doing almost nothing. I out-thought myself. The town will do that if you let them. Give them a push here and there when you need to, but when you get heavy-handed, that's when you start losing the game.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
I think that we need to make sure that we use all of the inertia from day 1. We also need to make sure that we don't get too use-to riding the wave of accusations. If we pick off all of the dumb people, then the people who know what they are doing will bite us in the butt. There is a point at which we are going to have to push and I would rather push a bit now than have to push later when we are much more exposed..
We have several really good targets right now that we can use for town lynchings. Eddie, Byron, calorie mate are all easy town lynch targets.

Nich (Apr 12):
You're never as exposed as you think you are in this game. Think back on who the mafia were in your own games for the proof. How much did you really suspect them before it was inescapable that they couldn't be anyone else?

Phantoon (Apr 12):
Yeah, I think there are a few people who we can nudge into becoming more aggressive towards each other. Some people were quite strongly against Nodal's death by the end whereas others just wanted the day to end (!). Why a townie would want to let us get together to avoid a few more arguments is beyond me. The ones who expressed that thought will be vulnerable for the rest of the game now.

Nich (Apr 12):
Hey Phantoon, tell spineshark we're recruiting Destil. I can't wait to see the look on his face when he finds out who his new teammates are.

Phantoon (Apr 12):
Are we agreed? I've not seen Mr Le Fou's opinion. The PM is written though.

Nich (Apr 12):
True, and Merus hasn't weighed in yet either. I'm just nervous about Night passing without deciding on this.

Merus (Apr 12):
I say convert!

Phantoon (Apr 12):
I think everyone's had a chance to vote now other than Paul. PM sent. I'm now just a normal rogue.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 13):
I just got home from work. I would've dissented, suggesting that we save it for later, let whoever build up more of a reputation so there's more firmly-established trust to abuse. But I guess it's too late now! I also wouldn't have picked Destil but don't think he's a bad target.

Nich (Apr 12):
Great! All those in favor of throwing Phantoon under the bus tomorrow to establish our bona fides?

Phantoon (Apr 12):
Thanks, dude! Although I'll be happy to take one for the team if it means we slaughter the townies.

Nich (Apr 12):
Kidding, of course. :) I tried to raise Paul on the AIM, but I guess he's at work or something. I'm sure he wouldn't mind.

Phantoon (Apr 12):
I do like Wave. I can see Future Talikng Time being like this. Of course by the time that happens we'll all have silver mullets and rocketships.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 13):
So basically, just gotta invent rocketships and I'm set?
2. We should have a direction, but we need to have different paths to the point. Some people should be moving against us and others should be moving with us. I like the idea of using the nichroad accusation to our favor. Definitely everyone should not be afraid to be against another rogue because that way we can build in redundancy to cover if one of us gets smoked out. So we need to keep adapting who is siding with you and who is against who to make sure we don't have 1 kill lead to more.
3. Converting Destil, we already agreed on this.
4. We need to be very careful about who we off. I'm afraid that we will simply validate some people's ideas if we off them because they put forward a good idea. If someone is pushing too much against us we need to start a smear campaign against them and try to get some civvie supporters. A public lynch of an innocent basically negates anything that they said.
5. Good ideas. We need to keep seeding the civvies some ideas that look good in context with what they are talking about. for example, we need to work the using the virus to convert a scanned innocent angle. This could win us some major points in the end-game. I have been holding back on agreeing with ideas and all that jazz. Hopefully we can swing the numbers enough to prevent any unified plan.
My vote for our hit target tonight is actually comb stranger. He has started to put some good ideas out there and I think that we should do away with him tonight before he becomes too entrenched. The question though, is who do we set-up as the town leader with him and destil gone?

Nich (Apr 12):
No one. The town doesn't need a leader. We need to drill it into people's heads that leaders get killed. It'll be a much-needed excuse for the big four in our gang of rogues never to get too involved, and it'll help the citizens be as afraid to share good ideas as they should be. Killing Comb Stranger is a good idea, I think, but we can do it tomorrow. He's not one of our potential suspects for the scanner at the moment. Don't worry about him getting "entrenched"--it doesn't matter this game. There's no angels, we don't need to worry about who we can get lynched vs. who we can hit. We can hit anyone.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
So who do we want to lynch tomorrow? I think Byron is the easiest target because he was at the top of Nodal's list, but do we want to start using that list or not? I may start day 2 off with an accusation of Byron because he hasn't been playing very well. He was being super defensive day 1 and I think we can use that to our advantage. I would probably cite his complicated inspector verification strategy and how defensive he got when pressed. We may be able to get a free citizen lynch. I'm fairly certain we can get a majority against him without too much work. #2 to lynch would be Eddie imo.

Nich (Apr 12):
I agree it'll be pretty easy to go after Byron, although I'll be opposing you for my own sake. Work up your accusation tonight as if you'd been building the profile the entire Night phase. It'll look better if you come out with it as soon as possible after Day begins; for some reason people are reluctant to believe a rogue would initiate a standard's death. Be sure to mention Nodal's list of course.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
Do we want to go down the list though? I think he has enough against him that I won't really have to lean against it. Also, we may be able to use his lynching as a proof for the fallability of Nodal's list. I plan to use it as a minor support, but I think I can get away with enough of what he has given us. Later on in the discussion it can be a reason for people to jump on with the accusation. People will want to add their 2 cents to the debate and add their 2 cents to the debate an

Nich (Apr 12):
No, harp really heavy on the list. The more instrumental it is in getting a civilian lynched, the less people will be inclined to pay attention to the rest of it, which gets Merus off the hook. If we're REALLY lucky we can get people soured on the idea of posthumous lists at all.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
Vaterite may grab onto it and do the work for us if the list gets doubted. He was heavily against it in the beginning and the civvie lynching will probably be enough for him to try and convert some others. If he is successful then we don't need to worry about the lists. If he fails then we can just use it to lynch him, or at least build a case against him. I'm gonna start working on the accusation and I'll post it here before we finish for the night. I also want to see what everyone else thinks about this.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
Okay here is the accusation so far. I am going to sleep and won't be on till late afternoon tomorrow.
Letís get this ball rolling and we may finish before page 40 today!
I think the best place for us to start is with Nodalís list. It isnít perfect as I said, but it is something to build off. At the very top he placed Byron.
Byron has been playing suspiciously from his first post
This iteration, if nobody has a plurality accusatoin by nightfall, a confirmed citizen gets lynched? My first instinct is to make sure we never let that happen -- though on the other hand, that's kind of as good as an Oracle, isn't it? If someone with a known vote history gets GMLynched, we KNOW that their list is not a mafia plot, right?
Er, a corrupted data plot, My AI Brothers. May your bytes be uncorrupted forever.
Why would we want to have a GM lynch? That is the worst possible thing we can do. We donít know how many times we can afford to miss with our lynches. It could be anywhere from 7 times to 4 times.
Secondly, I donít know about you guys, but this is an awful way to verify standards. The chances of hitting someone we want to verify are ridiculously slim. Heck, we donít even know what those chances are right now! I do not want to be playing a game of Russian roulette with out standards. What if we hit the scanner? What do we do then? We would be down our most important role and he/she would be unable to reveal his/her scans!
I thought Nodalís idea was terrible, but this is just plain stupid.
Next we have his defense of said strategy
BUT at some point in time, and maybe for a single power-cycle only, when all citizens have suspicion lists up, we could allow it to happen, to have a guide to follow. We have an inspector; this game will be all about taking every scrap of information we can get, and letting none go to waste. I am only suggesting one way that we could get it.
He gets some sense back to him and agrees that Day 1 it is a bad idea. He still wants us to use it though...
Remember that thing about Nodal not defending himself, instead just restating his strategy? Yah... This looks a bit like it. If we even wanted to put ourselves in a position where we can verify the list of someone, why donít we just lynch them? This way we can have the scanner give up their scans and we can actually target a specific person. If we happen to hit a rogue, then thatís even better. This idea just falls flat on its face.
The defense doesnít do much to help it. We need every scrap of information to pick our targets, I donít thin anyone will refute this. What we also need is all of our lynches. Lynches are resource guys. We donít have a whole lot of them to use, we donít even know a range of how many we have to use. Wasting a lynch like this would be a huge draw-back for the standards.
BECAUSE we can only trust dead information, running lists of citizen suspicions are necessary. If you're on the gallows, or the Recycle Bin, or whatever, we need to know who you dislike, as in previous games. And since anyone could be deleted any given night, we need as MUCH information flowing as possible.
Dead information is helpful, look at Brickroadís vote to lynch himself in Game 1. Dead standards though are not useful. We canít rely on power roles this game. Every single standard is important. Not only are they the measure by which we win or lose, they are the way we win or lose. Trading 1 person for a suspicion list is a terrible trade off. That suspicion list is highly fallible and just as suspect for bad information as we all are.
Information helps standards, but it also helps rogues. If we have a public list of everyoneís suspicions they know who to target, who to manipulate and how to manipulate them. Yes it would be helpful in the case of random lynching and rogue whacks, but we would be opening up ourselves completely to the rogues. We should keep it the way it is now, with lists only on lynching.
Agreed here. We MUST delete the scanner. Once they have been revealed, we cannot trust them. Additionally, their "bloc lists" are subject to the same corruption that they are. What we need from the Scanner is confirmed rogue identity. Anything else can be manipulated.
Dear Scanner: PLEASE do not reveal yourself unless a) you are about to get strung up, and b) you have at least two rogue names. This way, we can ensure that anyone coming forward as a pretender will do some damage to the mafia.
We may wish to consider lynching anyone the Scanner names as innocent, as well. Names of innocents do not help us unless they're dead by our hands.

Nich (Apr 12):
Were you going to respond to that last quoted bit? I don't know about including it... lynching the scanner is something we want to convince the town of. Including it as evidence that someone is rogue might strike a bit too close to home.
I like the rest, though. Oh, except the part where you both use Nodal's list as evidence against Byron and then later pooh-pooh the value of suspicion lists. We can start questioning their value after they end up killing Byron, not before.

Mr. J (Apr 12):
I'm not done yet. That last quote I'm only gonna use the last 2 lines of. I just need to get some sleep for tomorrow because I have a lot going on. I am against everyone publically stating their lists, not them alone. I'm gonna throw a few more quotes in there, then talk about what Nodal brings up at the end. We don't want the accusation to be entirely convincing because we need to have some discussion to bring in a bit more paranoia. Although, we may want to have tomorrow be the ""balls-to-the-wall and then realize that we messed up-day. That way day 3 we can move very slowly and stir up a lot of paranoia.
Also, I want to leave some stuff for you to talk about. I don't want it to be too perfect. That way I can reinforce the idea and bring it back up again. Man, I'm feeling like Brickroad :|

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 13):
Dude, J-man, I can't believe I ever doubted you in M2E. This is a fucking masterpiece.

Nich (Apr 13):
The main thing I want to see revised in this is where you say at the beginning "I think the best place for us to start is with Nodalís list. It isnít perfect as I said, but it is something to build off. At the very top he placed Byron" and then later on say "That suspicion list is highly fallible and just as suspect for bad information as we all are." You can't say both things in the same accusation. The Byron kill is going to be what takes the bloom off the suspicion list rose. Just let it happen without flagging up how suspect it is while you're trying to use it.

Phantoon (Apr 13):
Wow, that's quite the ambush. Good work!

Destil (Apr 13):
Holy fuck... thanks for putting me on the winning team, guys.

Nich (Apr 13):
You weren't by any chance the scanner, were you?

Spineshark (Apr 13):
No.

Phantoon (Apr 13):
Welcome, Destil. We thought you'd be a good pick for Team Evil

Destil (Apr 13):
Go ahead and boot the sun, Spine. I'll be bussy until this evening at any rate.

Spineshark (Apr 13):
So Guesty's dead, then? I'll cook up some flavor text and get the Night over with a little early, then. Not right now, probably after dinner.

Nich (Apr 13):
Can we keep using the Wave until day officially starts?

Spineshark (Apr 13):
Yeah, of course. I'll just pop an announcement up top when the room is considered closed.
Assuming anyway that there's not a "close wave" function in the first place. Not seeing anything like that, so probably not.

Destil (Apr 13):
Also, reading the thread here a bit, my plan will be for now to do the same thing I was planning before being converted: I'm going to discuss the hell out of the mafia intention behind the kill, because I think we screwed that up BADDLY in M2E. Where I take the discussion will be quite a bit different, I ithink.

Destil (Apr 13):
Also, I haven't found in the wave why everyone voted for Guesty, I'm tempted to keep it that way...

Phantoon (Apr 13):
We're trying to kill the scanner as the first thing he'll probably do is scan Brick, Paul and Merus. That would be costly. I'm working on the idea that people who opposed instant scanner-kill have a better chance of being who we're after. You were one and Guesty was another. Calories and (I think) Byron were the last targets on the list.

Destil (Apr 13):
Okay. Knowing the answer I can at least avoid putting that forward myself...

Nich (Apr 13):
Destil, can you give us a former civilian's read on if any of us are standing out as suspicious? Think any of us should lie low or change tactics to avoid accruing accusations on day 2?

Destil (Apr 13):
Merus was on my list. Watching Tock play Brick last game I felt he was agreeing to how he was similar to me on most things. At the same time Merus and I often agree on things so I was mostly writing that off. Plus I'm the only who would pick up on that I'd guess.

Destil (Apr 13):
Queen is a confirmed bandwaggoner, but at this point that may be easy to get out of. I'd be against lynching people who give us no info as a citizen, but onlu Nodal appeared to agree...

Queen Possum (Apr 13):
I'll pipe up more now. When I finaly got to the thread it was already 9 pages and I couldn't keep track of who said what. It should be easier now that I'm caught up.

Destil (Apr 13):
Aside from whoeever gets inspected she's the one who I think most needs to change things up a little. There are others, but her low post count + bandwagon vote may draw some attention. I'll be starting/engaging in discussions about what new information has come to light overnight, so that may be a good way for her to get a little involved. Still best for her (or anyone else) to really associate too closely with me, however. My biggest warning is to FORGET you know I'm on your side today, if at all possible. I'm in a good position to not be lynched, I shouldn't need any help.

Destil (Apr 13):

Phantoon (Apr 13):
Also who do you think is dangerous and vulnerable among the citizens?

Destil (Apr 13):
From my perspective as a citizen Byron was actually somewhere between being pretty bright and a moron. Inconsistancies like that may make him lynchable tommrow.

Destil (Apr 13):
Reading more now.... yeah, letting the town string him up is good. I can reenforce nodal a bit more today, I was on the record that he was innocent and I was starting to think he was brighter than you'd expect by the end of the day.

Destil (Apr 13):
dstund is a blank slate to me, but I get the feeling he really could be dangerous.
Comb Stranger is sharp.
It's meta but BobgoBill I get the impression plays a lot of forum mafia. Worth keeping an eye on.

Kayma (Apr 13):
This is true. BongoBill is no stranger to the game. A good thing to keep in mind.

Destil (Apr 13):
... everyone else is here. Spineshark is such a bad person.

Destil (Apr 13):
I can possibly lead the charge against Eddie or at least support it. Guesty I'll have to re-read, but since I'll be contributing and driving the conversation on that front if at all possible I think it may not turn up much. (i.e. why Guety was killed, which will be the only new citizen info unless the scanner steps up).

Destil (Apr 13):
Also, wave is slow on my work PC and I have a TOnn of work to do. May not get in much more tonight...

Destil (Apr 13):
Oh, and my greatest hope was that the scanner targeted ME last night as the loudest voice against the crowd about lynching him until I remembered how Spioneshark determined it would work. Glad I didn't try to draw attnetion to the fact taht I was an MVP last game as a citizen during the day (was playing a lower profile this time anyway).

Destil (Apr 13):
I added some more comments upwave too.

Nich (Apr 13):
I'm glad Night is ending soon. This Wave is getting totally unmanageable. /:

Destil (Apr 13):
Testing.
Using Chrome makes a significant improvement even on my ancient work PC. You dudes may want to try that if in FF/IE.
EDIT: or safari, I guess...

Kayma (Apr 13):
Hey kids, Kayma here.
So after my first, decidedly flippant post, I was going to post my rebuttal, tentatively titled "Lynching the Seer: Why You're All Bad and Should Feel Bad". However, the thread had ballooned by that point, and I was out of town, so I just shut the hell up.
I'm going to try comprehending the 20+ pages of the thread, and hopefully read enough of this wave before it crashes my browser. Again.
Anyway: If you guys have some sort of master plan for me on day 2, by all means, let me have it.

Destil (Apr 13):
Thoughts:
A) The inspector has a positive hit now, I'd be pretty sure. I could sadly be it (you guys seemed to think so), Paul, Brick, Nich and Merus would be my other suspicions.
Pay attention to anyone looking for more info on my 'don't lynch the inspector' plan or posting specific scenarios. Buddying up to me may also be a bit of a tell, since I was the most vocal on that front..
I'll stick to playing devil's advocate and posting 'good' ideas for now. Hopefully there will be some in-depth discussion on our kill tonight without me prodding it, but I'll certinally there. Knowing the why I can see plenty of lines of thought that would put me at it, which is scary...
Also, hopefully the inspector will be eager and come forward with a name or two fast. If so I'll most likely point out that corrupts will be trying to stay apart from each other and going towards some of the quiter posters or the middle of the road guys... may be able to buy our other top players a few days. 'Worked' for sprite, right?

Chady (Apr 13):
Was this the ruleset that let people know when they've been scanned? I forget.

Nich (Apr 13):
It was supposed to be, but I didn't remember to put it in the official rules I gave spineshark, so it'd be unfair now to add it back in after the scanner has already acted.

Merus (Apr 13):
Yeah, shit, I'm going to be a lot more low-key in day 2 if I'm going to survive. I think nearly everyone's fingered me by this point.

Destil (Apr 13):
Wow, the difference in the game being corrupt and being clean is night and fucking day. It's amazing.

Destil
05-11-2010, 09:06 PM
Spineshark (Apr 18):
Mafia Game 3, Night 10 is now in session! I've found a replacement. This should be...interesting.
Comb Stranger was Standard.
Please vote for tonight's kill as soon as possible. I'm looking to resolve an hour or two early, since I won't be near a computer on-time and as always don't want to lead people on with assumptions about the virus (and in this case, replacements).

Nich (Apr 18):
Speaking of the replacement, we should be careful not to be the ones to explain away QP's inactivity as a result of her withdrawing from the game in case she, or we, get pinched. That'd be one clear association that would work against us in either case. Some citizen or another, I'm guessing Calories or fanboymaster, will probably do it for us.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
Will we know who our replacement is before the start of Day 11 proper?

Phantoon (Apr 18):
Does the replacement get a chance to get into the wave and see what our plans are? Destil did.

Spineshark (Apr 18):
It's VorpalEdge. I've just invited him, I don't know if he'll actually see the wave before the day starts (but he'll get to it eventually)

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
Hi. Yeah, I haven't had nearly enough time to properly strategize, and this interface is killing me, so I'll try to keep a low profile and not get offed (while of course posting more than QP did). Quick points: I agree with the general push against brick, this is something I wanted to bring up myself. If the game goes on too long and nobody vocal is killed, the civs will take matters into their own hands. This isn't game 1 and we don't have angels to worry about, after all. He's going to die, so we might as well come out of it looking good.
Also re: scanner, I don't find it too likely that someone will have investigated every single vocal player. That's just asking for the rogues to off scan targets before you can do anything. Remember how unlikely it is that all of us are mafia, right? You want to scan people that are probably going to be alive when you reveal. This is why brick has to die: if he doesn't, then why aren't the mafia killing the important players? We need to show that the civilians can off popular players too.
Maybe the really smart cookies will ask themselves why the first popular player to die is a rogue, and not a townie, but I can't see doublethink like that gaining traction.

Destil (Apr 17):
I want comb stranger dead.

Nich (Apr 16):
Comb Stranger would be a pretty good pick, I think. He barely posted at all today and the town wouldn't learn much from his death. Let me look into his posts more before commenting further. (I'm going to the movies and such tonight, so I'll catch up with this thread later.)

Destil (Apr 17):
I will elaborate. QP needs to be good with this. But his sudden left field call out on her set my scanner sense off hard. CS is bright enough to scan her after the low activity and bandwagoning. He may be saving scans for someone like brick for later, figuring that they may be corrupted, so why waste it on someone high profile early. He can scan them in a few days if we don't lynch 'em by then and have a much more trustworthy read.
I'd also point out that if he isn't the scanner hitting QP like that is some damn fine intuition, and I don't want to see any more of it, if he can do that again and make people believe him it would be like having two scanners.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
Why do we think CS is the scanner? I've read the thread and missed the reasoning. I'm not saying I disagree by any means, but I think we have to hit the scanner if we want an easier time for ourselves.

Nich and Destil (Apr 17):
He's been very quiet, for one, and his accusation of Queen Possum (749) was pretty out of left field, making us wonder if he did it because he scanned her night 1 (after she announced she was voting for what turned out to be an innocent because the bandwagon looked so comfortable)

Phantoon (Apr 17):
Interesting. Well, he's a sharp one and I'd very much like him dead. Quite a few of us attracted some heat today, fortunately not enough to get lynched, but we need to be a little careful. Fortunately the town seems to be very reluctant to lynch at the mo which gives a decent defence post a chance of working.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
My feedback on this is: do not assume someone is the scanner. In lieu of any actual evidence or suggestion, it becomes a blind stab in the dark. Also, this is just CS's style - he did the same thing in M1 for Alice (for the same reason - she was quiet and had little/nothing of substance to say) and it convinced me that he was the inspector for about half the game. CS could be a good target because he's really smart, but he's also a little crippled at the moment without internet connection. (Odd though that in game 1 he had an internet problem just as he came into danger as well, but was still able to post now and then.)

Nich (Apr 16):
Oh, I see. And him not posting much could be his way of trying to duck down below our radar?

Destil (Apr 16):
Yeah. And, honestly, he's one of the brightest ones left. If we had just gotten eddie today (so close!) that would basically be the game if I'm right.

Mr. J (Apr 16):
I agree on comb. I think he's trying to play the below the radar scanner game.

Nich (Apr 17):
I'm looking at 662 now where Comb Stranger says "I strongly doubt [Guesty] actually was the Scanner though." Because maybe he'd be in a position to know?

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
Or maybe because the chances that he was the scanner were actually very low.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
Hmmm. It's possible. I think I agree on Comb, but because I think he's one of the Standard's greatest assets and they haven't realised it yet. Will it put any of us under pressure other than QP?

Nich (Apr 17):
Not really. Comb never even actually accused QP of anything, he just said to keep an eye on her "because she wasn't spewing enough useless bullshit to be a citizen." And if we get a replacement for her, that's very easily explained away.
His only real accusations were Pappy and Nodal, who are both already dead. So we're covered there. He never left behind anything like a suspicion list. The more I answer this question, actually, the more I'm wondering why we're killing him...

Phantoon (Apr 17):
Actually, Loki could be a problem after all. His very first post on day 2 he came up with three names to lynch and two of them were rogues. Also, what do people make of Tock? I don't think he's a major threat at the moment but he's worth keeping an eye on.

Destil (Apr 17):
Tock is dangerous, after the last game I'm sure of it. But he's also pretty lynchable, several people have already been openly suspicious of him and we didn;t even have to push. I want him dead, too, but I think we can let the standards do it.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
Tock is a smart player that will stew if we let him. No need to rub him out just yet. He's a possible lynch but still a good target for killing later on.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
Here's something that's interesting - I was fishing for the scanner and in post 684 Vaterite catches it. He's the only one that does. He doesn't accuse me or anything, but I find that interesting. I thought I was being relatively careful, was he looking for that sort of thing? Of course, should he be the scanner I'm probably buggered.

Chady (Apr 16):
Comb Stranger did post a plan to kill Brickroad and Nich on Day 1. Don't know if it has any bearing on the current decision to kill, but it's worth pointing out. I'm all for his kill, otherwise. He's pretty smart.

Destil (Apr 16):
I was actually considering using the combstranger effect as part of my reason to go after Brickroad tommorow if we end up going that route, using the same logic I posted above. Mostly if he's not the scanner. I think the heat on QP's replacement would be the worst (short memories, and at least 3 people proposed that plan day one) but her leaving the game may very well get the replacement a buy for a day.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 17):
Coming after me tomorrow sounds like a good idea. Anything in particular I should be prepared for?
If you're after me and I'm after Kayma, which looks to be like to happen, I seriously doubt anyone is going to lump us all together as rogues. It's going to just look like basic "Brick fighting a war on two fronts because he likes to argue."

Destil (Apr 17):
I've started planting the seeds for it today, and I'll play it off as what I had telegraphed earlier. I'll try and avoid being as point for point as J. And it'll be later in the day (lucky for me that's my accusation history), but not to late, can't let anyone know I intend to not get you strung up.
Basic premise will be the above, on day two you were still possibly a standard, but by day 3 all bets are off. And even if that's not the case, I have enough to get you from days 1 and 2.
Your day one plan, and the fact that you added ex-mafia this go around, perhaps you're shielding them? Even if no one else latched onto it, you didn't know that would be the case when you posted it and we followed it to a T in M1E. Your shaking up loki as a mafia plot to either cover for someone who was converted / deemed too quite overnight / was the virus and needed cover to be in the open day two. And finally your assault on quiet players (I'll do this after you rattle up a few tommorow) as shaking out the inspectors, just like M1E. I'll also continue to point out how little is new about your bold new strategy and that you're just lampshading doing the same things for the same reasons.
EDIT: Actually, keep or drop the Loki point? May bring Kayma under undue suspicion and myself for pointing out Loki but not him.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 17):
Well, if you call me out and people start getting suspicious of me, they're going to take closer looks at my work with Loki and Kayma no matter what. If Loki keeps up what he's been doing there won't be any reason for me to interact with him at all tomorrow.
Another way we could play this: I make a calculated slip-up after, say, 24 hours or so, and you catch me on it. It becomes clear I've obviously been turned on night 2. I get lynched, I'm a rogue (boo!), but that puts you in a golden position: we've convinced the standards that the virus has acted AND you're the one who caught me in my tracks.
Seems like a dangerous move with the Scanner still in play, though.

Destil (Apr 17):
Right. The main thing is I don't want to kill you today, but I want to look good when the Scanner does come out and mabye give him a little more incentive to. If there's a hot vote on Busroad tormmow that I start today and it looks like it could swing either way, then we may get the scanner out of the way right there.
EDIT: Also, Paul's already our designated 'bus brick' guy, and I wouldn't want to take that away from him, man's been waiting for two games to do it. Mabye paul comes at you viciously and in his more typical style and I latch on with some stellar logic?

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
I can come out swinging against Brick. I won't Mr. J a massive post overnight, largely because at least one person caught on to that immediately (luckily no one else seemed to) but I'll start picking stuff up.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 17):
Sounds awesome. How long will we wait before pulling this stunt? 48-hour mark? That'll give the Scanner enough time to make a slip-up in case we don't catch him or he doesn't come out.
And of course if the town decides to go chasing some Eddie-shaped tangent or another there's no reason for any of this. Let 'em have their easy lynch, laugh about it Night 3 here in the speakeasy.

Destil (Apr 17):
Yeah, whenever works for paul near or after the 48 hour mark sounds great.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
It'll definitely be later. It would be too obvious to start early in the day, and that just makes a risky play more dangerous. Gotta keep it natural.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 17):
I don't know about Comb. It was pretty easy to twist him around in M1, but of course he was essentially martyred after that and above suspicion. I wonder if he still holds that place in the hivemind. If he is the Scanner he's obviously not going to be open to any manipulation from whichever of us he's scanned so far. If he's not, we can probably spin his posts into a daytime lynch once the rest of the weeds have been pulled.
Is anyone else curious about demonkoala's "big reveal accusation" tomorrow? Regardless of who he is or what he's got, taking him out tonight is guaranteed to generate a LOT of paranoid discussion tomorrow along the lines of "what did the rogues see that we missed?" Even better, I don't think dk's ever latched on to any of us, so we're not likely to catch any fallout. Thoughts?

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
I agree on DK. I don't know how much paranoia we'll ACTUALLY get out of it, and it seems like fallout is relatively easy to dodge. It's possible he's got something good - but it's just as likely that he's got super-damning evidence against, say, Byron. I'm almost inclined to see what he's come up with and play off it. He hasn't revealed how smart he actually is, yet.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
Certainly worth thinking about. Demonkoala's no fool and it's faintly possible he might have something worthwhile to the standards. It might be worthwhile killing him just to freak out the civvies. Also it puts everyone he's ever mentioned under suspicion, which would be delightful.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 17):
That was my thought. This early in the game, a good mindfuck might be more useful than a possible scanner hit. Chances are we're not going to hit the scanner anyway, and whether or not he can really do us in is debatable. Remember: the Standards don't know our Virus has already acted. Scanner Day is going to bring up that whole can of worms all over again.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
I deliberately used Loki to imply I'd acted, with the plan that killing Loki would then make the Standards freak out that no-one can be trusted anymore (again). Might be being too subtle but I thought it was worth a go.

Destil (Apr 17):
I personally think we should be making our best effort to hit the scanner with every kill, because once they're dead the game is basically over. It may sound cocky, but believe me, I did NOT believe spine's PM without re-reading it like 3 times. Even if a few high profile players go down no one is going to think that Paul and Nich and Brickroad and Merus AND Destil are all rogues. Inconsevable!
Also: I prefer Destil BongoBill if we want to ratchet up paranoia on someone with big plans for tommrow, but I'll re-read DK's day two posts and see if it sets off my scanner senses.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
Bongo Bill is too quiet. Tomorrow we can point some fingers his way and get him to talk more - at least show us how smart/dangerous he might actually be instead of saying "I USED TO PLAY MAFIA" and "PEOPLE ARE SUSPICIOUS, I GUESS."

Destil (Apr 18):
Yeah. I posted down-wave that Brick should be on him and Kayma tommorow as part of his 'useless' strategy. I'm really curious what this dude's made of.
Also, Kayma, anything about him pinging off you? I.E. if Brick and I were to play on another board I'd be on him in a heartbeat if he had like 3 posts a day... Is there any tells he may have on you we should know about?

Nich (Apr 17):
After rereading all of DK's posts, the only reason I'd consider voting for him is because he's another guy whose death won't reveal anything to the town. Otherwise, he hasn't done or said anything I see as dangerous apart from his mystery plan for tomorrow, and if that's anything like his previous accusations, it'll be for another townsperson. I'd still prefer Comb Stranger or Bongo Bill, with the edge toward Comb Stranger since he's another one against auto-lynching and could be the scanner.

Destil (Apr 17):
DK: Read 761. He's basically saying 'If I'm the inspector I'm scanning Brick, Merus and Nich'. And he comes against brick. If he comes in against Nich or Merus tommorow I think he's a good target for tommorow night. If he is the scanner I'd think he would want to get in at least the 3 scans first...

Nich (Apr 17):
Hmm, I can see the Brick thing now that you mention it.
How's this: Brick, Mr. J, I'd like you two to read DK's, CS's, and maybe Bongo's posts and weigh in on which of the three seems most like a scanner in hiding. When I was inspector, subtlety was not part of my play style, but you two both put in some effort toward masking yourselves as inspector and might have some insight onto which of the three is most likely to be doing it here.
(How great is it that all three of the previous inspectors are now rogues?)

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 17):
I'll do this at work tonight, Nich. Though to be fair, subtlety was never part of my playstyle either... about the only thing I did to hide the fact that I was an inspector was to never make a post saying "Hello, I am an inspector." It's not rocket science over here.

Mr. J (Apr 17):
Comb Stranger reminds me a lot of what I was doing. He doesn't get actively involved in much and advoids directly confronting anyone. That random post about QP worries me because there are other targets who aren't posting much either. I think if he is the scanner he may have scanned QP. I think he is the most obvious target right now.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 17):
Okay, I'm down with killing Comb then. Let's get 'im, gang.

Merus (Apr 18):
I'm up for killing Comb, but remember: it'll likely throw suspicion on Brick and Nich.

Nich (Apr 18):
Yeah, I'm making my formal vote for Comb too.

Destil (Apr 18):
Vote Comb Stranger's death. It's the ultimate in frameups, boss. (my offical vote).

Merus (Apr 18):
Comb Stranger: Percy dropped him.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
I vote to kill Comb Stranger.

Kayma (Apr 18):
Likewise. Comb Stranger.

Phantoon (Apr 18):
OK, I concur. Comb Stranger. DK is fairly unlikely to be the scanner if he's being that obvious. I still think we should keep a very close eye on Vaterite tomorrow.

Chady (Apr 18):
Voting to kill Comb Stranger.

Mr. J (Apr 18):
Throwing my vote in for Comb Stranger

Destil (Apr 16):
And with that I'm going to my girlfriend's favroite dive for dinner shortly; she had a hard day yesterday (working for Turbo Tax online support). Back in a few hours.

Kayma (Apr 16):
Oh god. I work a help desk; you each have my sympathy.

Destil (Apr 16):
You have no idea. She left for work at 7AM and got back last night at 1AM.

Phantoon (Apr 18):
Do you guys not have limits on workdays? That seems excessive.

Destil (Apr 18):
AZ is right to work. But that only happens on the 15th and I believe the second four hour shift was voluntary overtime.

Nich (Apr 16):
Wait, but QP posted in the thread during day 10, so she shouldn't be autokilled. Can't we put out a call or something?

Destil (Apr 16):
No action is the no voting, I hope. Since I just asked spine to put me there.

Nich (Apr 16):
The "no action" specifically meant people who never accused a single person during the day. People who accused and then withdrew are listed as such.

Spineshark (Apr 16):
She requested a withdrawl from the game. I'm not being evil.

Destil (Apr 16):
Interesting. She was drawing heat... my best view on things on a reread yesterday, though, was we could maybe make that work, because her posting patterns and activity are pretty damn close to McDole's...
And I'm a horrid meta-gaming bastard, but that's a great cover. The only fear I have with killing CS is his callout on QP. But we'll get a bit a buy on her for a day or two if she's replaced.

Nich (Apr 16):
The best thing is, if you're right and CS is smelling like scanner, QP's replacement takes the heat off her AND we've got a scanner kill out of her inactivity.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 16):
So is QP being killed or replaced?

Nich (Apr 16):
Spineshark put out a call for a replacement player in the general forum thread without mentioning it's QP who's being replaced. If we get someone (God, I hope it's Dizzy) then they'll join us. If not, then QP will die.

Chady (Apr 17):
A replacement would be pretty good... I don't want our team to lose a player (natch), but if they came in posting ideas like gangbusters it might remove the stigma associated with QP's role. *fingers crossed*

Destil (Apr 16):
I'm going to start this thread for general thoughts on my part while the girl's getting ready.
How's my cover guys?
I'm thinking about comming out against Brickroad tommrow. If my role is 'smart earnest citizen' I'll need to get some blood on my hands sooner rather than later. I know paul called this one, so it's also up to him.
The plan is to accuse later in the day. Start off with faffing and talking about the night kill, lead into some more re-reads and strategy. Eventually set on brick late enough that inertia shouldn't be enough to kill him. My general accusation will be a revised CS plan: if brick was innocent he would be converted night one. Except, wait. He would be scanned night one. So instead they wait a day. And even if that wasn't the case, if he was a rogue from the start I think I have enough to string him.

Nich (Apr 16):
It's risky, because we don't actually want Brick to die yet, but might be worth doing. I can argue against it fairly convincingly without implicating myself.

Destil (Apr 16):
Yeah. But who takes my side? If we miss the scanner tonight, it may also give us a pool of people, find someone who jumps onboard without much discussion or too much discussion, especially if I vote late enough to not actually be able to swing things.

Merus (Apr 16):
Considering you've been swinging against Brick pretty damn hard, Nich, I'd prefer it if you weren't the one to defend Brick. One of the things I'm planning to do on day 11 is compile a spreadsheet of who's been agreeing with and fighting with who, which I reckon I can sell to catch some innocent players. The thing is that it probably will catch some mafia as well, especially if you start defending the guy you've been fighting all game.
Nich should probably take your side, and I'll take Brick's.

Nich (Apr 16):
I'm a little iffy on this idea. I saw some people speculate that the Mr. J/Byron fight was just two citizens going at it as has happened many times before, which is good and not to be deterred by any of us, but don't forget that some of the citizens out there have been mafia before and are looking carefully not just at agreements but also at arguments.
I worry that if we produce a detailed list of relationships, it's too easily used against us. No sense in giving the citizens information like that. If they come up with it on their own, work with that, sure. But don't be the one to introduce information the citizens don't need.

Chady (Apr 16):
As for the list of relationships, the only person who has really mentioned me was Loki, and he said he picked three at random. Unfortunately, the three he picked were me, QP and Garrison. And then Brick came out strong against Loki immeadiately after.

Destil (Apr 16):
With QP dead Chady you're the one who I think has the best chance of bringing this one home for us in the event of a big scanner reveal. You're certinally present and not likely to be lynched for inactivity, but you've kept a low profile. Still, the biggest fear is people are starting to notice things like who Brick isn't shaping up right now, and that's bad.

Chady (Apr 16):
I'm trying to keep pace with McDohl and Bongo Bill as far as post counts go.

Destil (Apr 16):
I think it would be great for Brick to give you the once-over tommorow, personally. And bongo or someone.

Chady (Apr 16):
I think I could probably handle that, yeah. I can use my "inexperience" posting on the board, and Brickroad's status as a significant player. I already hinted that I kind of understood Nodal's being afraid of him.

Destil (Apr 16):
I'd suggest not overplaying your own inexpirence, but Garrison rode that to the last day in M2E somehow last game, so what do I know.

Chady (Apr 16):
Inexperience might not be the exact word, but I feel that I'm a very deliberate poster. I'm not going to say something unless I have something to contribute; that's been the way I've done things previous (although that might be a bit meta-gamey).

Destil (Apr 16):
You appear to be on the right track, so no argument here. Keep it up!
We're all evil meta-gaming bastards and the only thing that's keeping me from speculation about who else dropped today and how we might use it is spineshark keeping me honest. Welcome to the club!

Destil (Apr 16):
My 'who takes my side' comment is meant to be more along the lines of 'which citizen is agreeing with me against brick and therefore may be the scanner'.
Actually, that's a good point. If we do hit the scanner tonight going after Brick looses a lot of appeal in my eyes. Should we have two plans?

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
Yeah: if we hit the scanner, don't lynch our own dude and ride out town v. town paranoia. There are lynch options better than a sacrifice at this stage if nobody knows any of us are guilty.

Chady (Apr 17):
We should probably cross that bridge once we come to it, assuming we still get all 48 hours, which I think we do.
Speaking of scanner targets, for some reason dstund (sp?) strikes me as a prime candidate, but that may just be because he proposed/ran the first game and has kept a pretty low profile.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
In Mafia West he had only 1(ish) post Day 1. I think he's a quiet one anyway. Doesn't make him any less dangerous to us potentially though.

Merus (Apr 18):
I think I can get Brick killed: us hitting Comb Stranger can be easily spun into the rogues trying to make the town forget about Comb's declaration that either Nich or Brickroad has been turned.
Actually shit I'd probably get Brick killed like that. We can't have that.

Destil (Apr 18):
That's actually basically my plan if we don't hit the scanner tonight. Working on the timing so we can't actually lynch him, at least not day 11. How strongly do we feel that Brick is scanned in the first two-three days, here? I think he's sort of asking for it... but it could be a disaster if they go for Nich and Merus instead, for instance...

Phantoon (Apr 18):
Although the first thing most of us would do is scan Brick it may be foolish to assume the scanner's done the same. Also if Nich or Destil has also been scanned then that could be dangerous. They too are also obvious scans. Although the middle order may be better to look at if the scanner thinks that the visible players are the first to go.
Finally, I may go with a scanner reveal if I'm cornered. No one else here could get away with it, but I may be able to with my post history. I won't give any of you dudes up. But it could buy us a day. It can only really work tommrow because Eddie's already onto some of the possibilities, and I'm not planning on drawing heat tommorow. But I wanted it out there for veto if you think it's a bad idea. Also, I woudln't do it unless I'm clearly in line for lynching, so it's not something I think we'll see. One flaw in the arguement I made with the town to not lynch that I only realised as a rogue: if I give them 2 take guilties and they lynch one of them then me, that gives us one more night to hit the real scanner, if my fake reveal doesn't expose them.

Nich (Apr 16):
I'm against it. The problem is, if we kill Comb Stranger tonight, you're one of the only citizens left still strongly in favor of leaving the scanner alive for even a single day. Brick and I both have to stay in character as staunchly for auto-lynch and you've already seen how rabid Eddie is on the issue. You wouldn't last the day even if you did front.
Yeah, but there's no advantage even if you were on the verge of a lynch. You'd give your fake (god, I hope fake) positives and then we auto-lynch you because if we suddenly decide not to, we're found out. Then you're still dead and nobody believes your list.

Destil (Apr 16):
I would come with 2 fake guilties, I'm thinking McDohl and someone else. Glad I can run ideas by other people this time! Sounds like a bad idea. So that's that.

Brickroad@googlewave.com and me (Apr 16):
Dude it is spelled "McDohl". Suikoden fanboy represent. *nothing to see here. Move along*

Nich (Apr 16):
A better idea (not just for you, but for any of us who are cornered WITHOUT having the scanner officially finger us) would be to keep protesting your innocence up until the noose falls and make sure your suspect list is populated with nothing but standard names. It won't look suspicious to leave us off there, because you'll be giving up 3 names out of 25+, and it'll be simple to argue that we're not on there just by the law of averages. Make sure all 3 names are fairly quiet standards, though--if you name, say, Byron and not me or Brick, people will wonder what motivated the choice of one loud guy and two quiet ones. All names on the suspect list of someone who doesn't look like he'll be able to escape the noose--and if you find us joining the effort against you, you'll know that's happening--should be standards who don't contribute much of use.

Mr. J (Apr 16):
The reveal would be very risky. I highly doubt it would gain you very much because there is such an auto-lynch sentiment going on right now. Looking at it from a gain/loss ratio it's not too great right now. Later on, once we are getting down to fewer and fewer people it may be worth doing a reveal. Not tomorrow though.

Destil (Apr 16):
The reason it would have to be tommorow is because it would be my last best chance at giving them a list that I can aruge means I shouldn't be auto-lynched. I don't know how much traction the idea has with the vocal minority, one of the reasons I'm cursing Eddie being alive tonight is that he already suggested someone giving a false 'clear' reading who was dead (I was thinking McDohl guilty and Comb Stranger innocent). Again, just buying us one last day to hit the real scanner. By the end of the game the auto lynch will pretty much be the only move, no one will believe I have 5 rogue names and I've been sitting on my hands with them.
But, yes. Not really going to be a workable move at the moment.

Destil (Apr 16):
My thoughts on an inevitable lynch mob against myself are to hold back on my own list until the last possible moment. This could work for anyone, of course. The problem is I haven't found a way to say 'I'll put up my list when I think I'm actually going to be hanged' without encouraging people to vote for me. See, the citizens haven't played brightly; they let us get a vote above the majority on nodal with no list...
Spineshark: if someone has a majority and both time constraints have passed and the player asked to end day immediately, would you do it? I figure I vote for myself and the day ends and they're caught with no list and no time left to talk...

Chady (Apr 16):
I don't think that a scanner reveal is the best play for tomorrow unless you find yourself under a lot of heat. I (and many others) have advocated strongly for an auto-lynch of the scanner, and while I think I may be able to change that opinion publicly, one day may not be enough. One day of confusion isn't worth the loss.

Destil (Apr 16):
I've been pretty well talked out of it. So we're cool. And it was a 'I'm gonna die anyway' sort of plan.

Chady (Apr 16):
Ah! It's weird to see you type while I type

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
A scanner front would only be a good idea if it were clear you were going to get lynched anyway. At that point it becomes less risky because either way, you're going to die - might as well throw them some paranoia and misinformation. The only risk is that it's too obvious and the misinformation too-quickly becomes real information.

Nich (Apr 18):
What I would do if I was going to get lynched would be to literally copy-paste Nodal's suspicion list from day 1, down to the last word. If I'm going to die anyway, I might as well be a dick about it.
And with that I'm posting a few more on TT to make sure I don't just vanish after the day ends, then I'm out. See you dudes in a few.

Spineshark (Apr 16):
I told Nich once he saw the Maifa roster that if Brick didn't get lynched in the first three days he was automatic MVP.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 16):
Gonna eat then lay down for a while, but maaaan.
I nominate Eddie and Pappy for Rogue MVP. Those guys drew so much fire today with their nonsense that nobody else even noticed there were bad guys watching. It should be trivially easy to get Eddie lynched tomorrow, even if none of us do anything.
We NEED NEED NEED a plan for the inevitable scanner reveal. I see you guys are playing with the idea of Comb Stranger, but if we swing and miss we have to be ready for a devastating blow on Day 3 or 4. When some cat comes up and says "Brick and Nich and Destil, yo" we have to be ready for it. If we push this auto-lynch agenda HARD it will buy us a single night to get our shit together, but it's a smarter play to have a reaction prepared. (Play it off? Call him a liar? Come clean and taunt the Standards with how shitty they're playing?)
Let's see, what else. Kayma, you have GOT to get into the game more. Not only are people noticing you not participating, they are starting to notice ME not noticing you not participating. I pretty much have to come after you tomorrow like I went after Loki today, or people will know for sure something's up. We can discuss here how it might go down, but it's GOING to go down. I have no problems accusing you if it means saving my own skin.
There was something else but I can't remember now. I'll be back after my nap. Productive day, gents!

Nich (Apr 16):
I can tell you right now the liar thing doesn't fly. I've been thinking about my own response if I got called out, and it would go something like this:
"I accuse <scanner dude>.
This is my only play. It doesn't matter what you think I am or if you believe he's the scanner. I know what I am and as of this moment, I know this guy's role too. If I'm a citizen, I HAVE to accuse him because I know he's rogue. If I'm rogue, I HAVE to accuse him because I know he's the scanner.
The rest of you have options. I don't. But I direct you to what I said on both day 1 and day 10 about allowing the rogues to front a fake scanner. Don't. Kill him today. I'll still be here tomorrow, or I won't, if the rogues kill me tonight. You lose nothing either way. What you need to do now is confirm for yourselves what I already know. Lynch this man."

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 16):
That looks good to me. If I get scanned and you don't, I'll go ahead with a similar response. I've been pushing the auto-lynch thing pretty hard anyway, so it'll at least be consistent.

Destil (Apr 16):
Indeed, the auto-lynch policy pretty much screws that one.
Do we need to cordiante this between possible groupings? I mean if they call out you, brick and me, should we all have seperate moves prepaired? I don't know if there's any real disaster recovery plan there, we may be able to swing the vote (especially if the citizens are dumb and split their votes between us), but that just proves them as the scanner for the next day...

Phantoon (Apr 17):
The auto lynch policy is one the Standards would be best off using anyway, but it remains to be seen if the Standards actually stick to it if he / she comes out. My suggestion is if they don't kill the scanner we do, then go on about how now the Rogues have done it the scanner is now unverifiable. We may get some bloc kills out of it maybe.

Nich (Apr 16):
We can try coordinating something later (I really do need to go now) but one thing none of us can do is lay down and die unless we're all agreed that's the plan. And by all I mean, everyone here, not just us three. If just one of us goes along with it and says "it's a fair cop" then the other two go down as well. It's got to be a unified front.

Mr. J (Apr 16):
The best move if you get targeted by the scanner is to push the auto-lynch. Don't push too hard and avoid any side conversation. Once the scanner shows up as clean then post a nice farewell post and that is all.

Mr. J (Apr 16):
What do you guys want to do about Eddie if you three get scanned? All three of you and Merus supported lynching him today. In my book that's fairly solid grounds that Eddie is actually a citizen. Hopefully we can get him lynched tomorrow if the inspector doesn't reveal.

Nich (Apr 16):
And if that doesn't work, we night kill him. Simple. If the worst comes to pass and three guys accusing Eddie are all revealed to be guilty, then yeah, that sucks that Eddie will basically be a confirmed citizen. So we take that away from them when the time is right (i.e. after the scanner is dead, if he's not auto-lynched.) No need to overthink this one.

Kayma (Apr 16):
Here's what I think.
Tonight, whack Comb Stranger.
Tomorrow, I intend to come out against Eddie. More likely than not, I won't be the first to do so, as I suspect he'll be the de facto vote for scared townies.
If a scanner manifests, it's time to really support the auto-lynch. You guys have done this brilliantly; no sane scanner would actually come out... they'll have to be pretty damn subtle.
Brick, I hear you about needing to get in the game. I don't feel that "in danger" yet, but your concerns are noted.

Chady (Apr 16):
Honestly, a scanner reveal on day 3 or 4 is probably in our best interest. At the most they will have 3 of us fingered (probably some combination of Brick, Nich and one other person), and that's not a catastrophic loss. Even then, there is no possibility for a psuedo-bloc.

Destil (Apr 16):
Also, very smart move on Paul's part to keep somewhat quiet. New players won't nessesarly buy his reputation so he could easily be missed as being dangerous if their scanner is a newbie. And he's perfect to cash in the 'I lynched brickroad for you' card.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
Yeah, I'm being careful not to do too much here. I'm not strong enough to have actually appeared on, well, anyone's lists... at all. But my reputation is just good enough to not get iced for being useless/quiet. I'm gonna ride this one out as long as I can. Hopefully pushing Brick will buy me some trust as well.

Destil (Apr 16):
Tommorow would be great, that's two hits.
Unless my counting is off right now we've got 27 players after tonights kill and 9 of us. We win after 5 more lynches of innocents right now on night 8 I believe.

Nich (Apr 16):
10 of us, if we find someone to fill QP's shoes. And if we can keep all 10 alive, we win after 4 more innocent lynches.

Destil (Apr 16):
My read is she's gone and QP is replacing a citizen in the thread because Torgo didn't respond? Am I right here, Spine?

Nich (Apr 16):
No, no, initially Spine had only privately asked Torgo to replace QP because QP requested to withdraw. Torgo hadn't responded so Spine was going to just kill off QP, leaving us with 9. But now he's put out the public call for a replacement player. If we get one, we still have our full complement. If not, well, we'll have to make do with 9.

Destil (Apr 16):
It's good to have the real GM on our side, that's for sure :P

Chady (Apr 16):
Exactly. My biggest fear is a day 6 or 7 reveal (or later), when there's the possibility of more mafia fingered with a combination of "proven" innocents (pending their fear of a virus conversion.)

Chady (Apr 17):
Honestly? I'm kind of looking forward to a scanner reveal of multiple rogues. It's not going to help us win, but how badass would it be to auto-lynch the guy and then have the revealed rogues spending the rest of their days taunting the normals for their stupidity.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
It's certainly stupid if scanner comes out too early. Otherwise I'd (as a standard) kill the scanner sharpish too, and when we (as Rogues) couldn't. Otherwise, if we get in a bad spot and it looks like an autolynch, the most suspicious player should say they're the scanner, name the appropriate number of names saying they've only found innocents so far. If we make only 1 in 4 rogues then it's unlikely they'll hit that rogue and they'll think the scanner's kosher. If they don't autolynch the scanner we kill him / her that night and we've got a rogue into the endgame. If they do they're more likely to hit Standards than us when they find out that the Scanner is evil anyway, so we get at least a 1:1 out of it. If we do it with a player we were going to lose anyway then we lose nothing.

Nich (Apr 17):
I don't know if I understand this plan. You're suggesting if the scanner comes forward, we front our own immediately afterward with better results? Why would the town believe ours and not theirs? Either: 1) they leave both alive, we kill one (either one) that night, and the town kills the other tomorrow (in which case we've lost a rogue and are about to lose more because the town now knows which is the correct one) 2) they lynch the fake immediately (in which case we've lost a rogue for no reason and are about to lose more because the town now knows which is the correct one) or 3) they lynch the real one immediately and the fake then becomes another on the list of confirmed rogues the town will then go about killing.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
I need to clarify: The town have no idea if there's still a scanner or not. If we had successfully hit the Scanner then it would be a way to get out of an immediate lynch situation and actually cause more damage. Of course there may be a massive logical hole in this that I haven't seen as I wrote this first thing this morning.

Nich (Apr 17):
I think the logical hole may be that this only works if we actually have killed the scanner. If we haven't, fronting our own won't work, and if we have... well, even then, there are better things to do if the noose is tightening than fake your own scannerhood. There's a lengthy thread discussing this elsewhere, where Destil ponders doing this and I argue against it.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
The general idea is that if the Town doesn't lynch the Scanner then potentially very bad things could happen. I don't think it's seriously worth our while but it's a potential way to get the Town to do our dirty work so that we can get round to murdering the bloc.

Nich (Apr 17):
Ah, then in that case I think the logical hole is the assumption that the town won't immediately lynch the scanner. If Eddie lives to see any scanner, real or fake, reveal himself, he'll be hollering his lungs out to lynch them, and Brick and I will have to support it. Destil's set himself up as anti-autolynch, but he doesn't really have much support outside Comb Stranger.
Faking a scanner is one of those things that always sounds tempting but in practice is not worth it if you do the math, IMO.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
I will also come down hard on lynching the Scanner. It's consistent with what I said earlier and it's what I'd say if I wasn't a Rogue anyway.

Mr. J (Apr 17):
What if we have 1 of the people in the scanner's list claim to be the scanner because they have already scanned the real scanner and say he's a rogue? We wouldn't really lose anything and if they lynch the rogue, we just off the real scanner. Then the next day we can just say that the rogues would have lynched the scanner even if he was a rogue to generate the unknown. That way we can have 2 scanner lists that they have to decide between.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
I'm not sure where you're getting "2 lists they have to decide between" from. Why would they trust anything from a rogue they've already lynched and confirmed as a rogue?

Destil (Apr 17):
We could attempt that, but we'v need to be super careful on the vote. We want them to lynch the guilty guy but think they're lynching the scanner. I don't think we can engineer that easily without attracting attention. Heck, just a counter-reveal is going to be a hard sell.
If it comes one thing to remember is that you could possibly force a early majority by voting for yourself. The standards played that poorly on Nodal, they should have always stayed one vote short; If spineshark is and the time limits have passed get spine to agree and then vote for yourself and end day early.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
Forcing an early majority and close only works if Spineshark is online and active and generally timely. Tell me: what do you think the chances are of that?

Nich (Apr 18):
No. Guys, stop it with this stuff already. The BEST possible result of this plan is that we get to kill the scanner at night where they can't see, but even that's not a great result, because it throws off the tempo of the game. We don't want them killing one of us--if the scanner comes out, that's something that's going to happen no matter what--we want them lynching the scanner so we can kill someone ELSE at night. Forcing us to kill the scanner ourselves is a win for the town. (That's why keeping the scanner alive is secretly the best move for them, even though we have to drill it into their heads that it isn't.)

Kayma (Apr 18):
I'm glad I'm not town in this game. the whole "lynching the scanner" argument is hilarious, I love that they're going for it.

Destil (Apr 16):
We didn't even have to suggest that Pappy may be making a play to cover for 'virus eddie'. I was laughing and laughing.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
Yeah I enjoyed setting up that one. Whoever we kill, don't kill ThornGhost. He's responded to my manipulations in all the right ways and I think we could use him.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 17):
Likewise, I've got Garrison dancing to my beat pretty well. I told him to do something, and he did it. I got into his face about accusing me, and he backed off. Playing that dude like a fiddle, I is.

Destil (Apr 17):
Likewise nameless entity is listening to what I'm saying. It's usually because I'm backing it up with logic, but if he gets himself in the habit of taking my ideas as smart and well considered I'd like to keep him around.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
People like that could be vital and it doesn't look fishy when we let them live, either. Of course ThornGhost could call for my head tomorrow and I'll look like a proper dick.

Mr. J (Apr 16):
So my take away from today
1. People aren't too worried about me or byron. It may have shifted me off their collective radar which is good.

Nich (Apr 16):
It's good that you're off their collective radar. But you should never have been on it. You screwed up today and ignored what I told you last night. Don't get greedy and don't get heavy-handed. Before day 11 starts, review day 10 very carefully. Watch how the rest of us accuse. We state our reasons clearly and simply, then stand back. We DON'T post monster evidence posts dredging up every questionable thing our accused has said or done, and we don't then go at it tooth and claw with gigantic quotefests. That kind of visibility is toxic for rogues. I've done nothing this game but accuse innocent people, but the only one who's ever suspected me at any point is Byron, and he backed off. That's because I don't press the point or make it seem like I'm out for anyone's blood.
Remember: the citizens will kill themselves if you let them. So LET THEM. Don't feel like you need to do all the work yourself.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
I came up with some semi incriminating evidence against Loki. I didn't push it because Standards shouldn't have vendettas. I don't have enough swing for it to stick, but Loki didn't nominate me back. But I seeded the idea that I'd struck already that got picked up on and discussed. When Loki inevitably dies it'll pull the rug out from under some of them, hopefully.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
Agreed with Nich. It was a risky move and Byron caught you on it red-fucking-handed, 100%. Read you like a book. If anyone else were as smart as he was, we'd have been in trouble far far earlier than we needed to be (and we may yet be - don't know who's keeping quiet about their suspicions).

Destil (Apr 16):
I think the biggest thing working against J was that was out of character for him. Brick could and seems to be getting away with some rather agressive play, but J was rather low-key last game, and people spotted that.
Likewise kisel suspected me since yesterday (heh) and was on me for the new strategy, suppose I should have lampshaded it a bit earlier, but I didn't want to look defensive. And that post about my time was 100% honesty and the same thing he'd have gotten were I a standard still.
Ironically Eddie's evidence against me was all from yesterday. I didn't bother to deflect that either, I was hoping I'd never have to cross swords with Eddie and just his last will, since his arguments for me were sparse and unexplained.
I also think Merus is doing a good job of keeping a low profile, but these intuitive/lucky standard lists are going to get him killed if they don't stop.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
Paul Le Fou's doing a great job too. Posting the right stuff in the right amounts if you ask me.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
I'm playing a lower-key game this time, partially for strategy and partially because I'm also really busy and don't have as much time to keep up with the fast-paced game. I want to get a little more into the game before I turn up as conspicuously quiet/too few ideas/not helpful enough, but I've kept off the radar so far.

Nich (Apr 18):
I thought about it some tonight and I think, unfortunately, Mr. J is going to have to keep dogging Byron now. If he drops the subject after being so forcefully against Byron, that's going to be noticeable, whereas if he keeps it up, he starts to look more like someone who honestly is convinced Byron is rogue. Might start in on him with his bandwagoning vote for Pappy first thing on day 11.

Merus (Apr 18):
My natural strategy tends to be very suspicious, but if I keep pushing the "hey I'm an idea guy, I like to say bad ideas so we can knock them down" angle, it should quieten down. That's how I played game 1, and that's how I act in TT generally.
I don't think Eddie suspects a thing. I admit, I giggled to myself when Eddie decided he'd make me regret saying that we were on different teams and voted for himself. Oh, Eddie. We are on different teams.

Destil (Apr 18):
I got a kick out of him quoting stuff from day 1 for me and for him calling me on arguements I made when we were on the same team.

Merus (Apr 18):
I think I'll get off that bandwagon for now, because Eddie's probably more useful to us alive and we know that when pressed hard enough he'll cave. If there's a good cause to jump on, I'll jump on, but it's probably time I read day 1 and work out something else to do other than accusing Eddie.

Destil (Apr 18):
Yeah. I need to tripple think myself into something that looks pre-meditated incase we do hit the scanner...
2. We still have a lot of people who are easy town lynches.
3. There still isn't anyone making any kind of vie for leadership.
Overall I think we're in a good position right now (knock on wood).
As I said above Comb seems like a good target to me.
If QP gets offed does the town find out she's mafia?
Plans for tomorrow?
I'm just going to keep pushing Byron and hopefully keep him from posting much of use. I may also jump on the lynch eddie bandwagon at some point if that gets rolling. I may not accuse him, but I'll argue against him.

Destil (Apr 16):
They're going to assume she's a citizen. Even if no one says it, it'll be in the backs of everyone's mind. General mob mentality has been that you don't drop out when you're given this cool role to play. I don't think we can play that off, though (and if we wack CS we don't have anyone really great to play it off against except mabye loki).

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
Only problem is - that doesn't help us. She was a non-entity in the game and mafia or citizen her being gone will have little effect except the actual one of there being less of us.
Also, re: roles and dropping out, not that it's a huge difference:
M1 - Oracle
M2E - Angel
M2W - Angel

Merus (Apr 16):
I'm probably going to jump on the Eddie bandwagon if it ever gets rolling, and if I don't implicate anyone I'll also post a spreadsheet of what relationships people have been cultivating.

Destil (Apr 16):
I'll be staying off that one, even though I really want Eddie dead (so close!). I'll need a new target for tommorow, if not Brick any suggestions?

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 17):
I'm going to remain as friendly with Eddie as is in-character, and deflect any suspicion it brings on me by pointing to how in-sync we were in M2E. I'm going to draw comparisons to me/Merus in M1, how much I like having someone "on my side" like Eddie is, and how it disappoints me to see him playing so badly (again, like Merus in M1).
If he absolutely flubs it like he did today, and doesn't recover, I'm going to have no choice but to accuse him. But as long as he keeps bouncing back, I'm going to keep supporting him. At worst it looks like stubborn ol' Brick with blinders on; at best it makes Eddie look like a Rogue once I'm lynched.

Merus (Apr 16):
Well, Pappy ended up being a pretty good target that we didn't really see coming on day 1. It's likely that a new target will present itself.
Failing that, you could just go with Byron.

Chady (Apr 17):
A target that you didn't see coming on day one. Heh heh. That's one thing I'll probably have to be careful on for the next few days.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
Yeah, I thought Pappy was a good choice from the get-go - luckily dtsund got the (very sensible) ball rolling before we needed to.

Destil (Apr 16):
Yeah. I thought somewhere I had been supporting byron at some point prior, but thankfully I never vocalized that. I'm a bit worried about fallout for J if we gang up on Byron, but hopefully I can come up with a good angle to get at him from...

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 17):
If we murder Byron tonight we might be able to play it as a reverse-Comb Stranger effect. It'll be a tight dance, but if J can pull it off we might be able to latch onto whatever tizzy presents itself tomorrow.
If they don't buy it, though, J is a goner. And that Eddie/Pappy thing was super fortuitous for us; I don't think we can count on that kind of junk every day, and it becomes increasingly less likely the further we get into the game.

Mr. J (Apr 16):
I can push the fact that he was putting forward bad ideas and that he is better dead to us than alive. Also, I can go out on a limb and say that he was too dangerous to leave as a rogue because he could be sowing bad ideas. I don't think we'll be offing byron anytime soon.
Also, several people said today that they think we're both citizens. We've had stuff like this happen before and I doubt that they will lynch me simply because I got on his back.
Then there is also the "I was trying to push him to see if he would slip up" angle.

Chady (Apr 16):
We may be close to the citizens' limit on "bad ideas" as a good enough reason to lynch, for now. Two days with no rogue lynch; I think they'll be looking for blood, and bad ideas may not be enough anymore.

Nich (Apr 16):
Bad ideas AND an inexplicable bandwagon jump onto Pappy late in day 10.

Chady (Apr 16):
That combo could work. I just think that "acceptable losses from bad ideas/plans" might not cut it tomorrow.

Nich (Apr 16):
Yeah, I definitely agree. Anyone we accuse from now on definitely has to be from the perspective that we genuinely think they're rogues. We can't skate by on "removing the weak players" anymore I don't think.

Destil (Apr 17):
There are other ways you can go after people, though it's dangerous. You can say something like 'of the people on the table that we could possibly lynch today, I think if X is a rogue it proves y therefore'. I did that quite a bit in M2 and it's got some cover, especially if you've voting when there's a few people to choose from.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 17):
Not me! I'm going to stick to my "weak player" guns until I'm blue in the face, and defend it to my dying breath. If someone else comes along (by which I mean, not one of you guys) with a reasonable case against another Standard, I'll latch onto it, but outside of that I don't feel like I should play the Standard's game for them.
And plus, I mean, Brickroad? Change his mind? Never!

Phantoon (Apr 17):
Yes, this seems sensible. I do worry slightly that we're communicating with each other a little more in-thread than I'd like - Nich has spoken to you on a couple of occasions I can think of. I can't help but think that if this were real life you and Nich may be butting heads slightly more, although I'm probably wrong in this.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
Yeah, I've seen a lot of cross/self-referencing than I'd like. Nich and Brick is one thing because they're the loud-mouths and somehow linked in people's minds already. But keeping our distance, and that includes building too much on/arguing too loudly with each other's ideas, will help avoid forging the links that Merus is about to catalog (and who knows who else will be watching?)

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 17):
Honestly I don't think this is a problem. If we were all Standars nobody would think twice about Brick/Nich/Merus/Destil having a huge page-long conversation. We all just naturally post a lot, so why hide it?
I haven't decided if I need to fight with Nich more, or less. I'm open to suggestions.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
Yeah, I'm just paranoid when it comes to this sort of thing. We're not under the same conditions as the Standards so we may not be being appropriately paranoid is my fear. I think if we carry on largely as we have we should be OK, on balance.

Chady (Apr 16):
I actually might hit that point tomorrow. "We can't afford to keep lynching bad players" and whatnot. Especially if people equate bad players with quiet players.

Nich (Apr 17):
But I actually I think we should leave Byron alone for now. He mostly accuses other citizens and doesn't have a lot of support for the accusations he originates. Getting him lynched would cast suspicion on Mr. J--better to leave them both alive and have people assume they're both standards than prove either of them one way or the other.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
Except for that he's dead-set on Mr. J - and right - for all the right reasons. If he's smart enough to catch that, what else can he see?

Destil (Apr 17):
The bad news is that our last citizen list has 2 of 5 rogues on it, and one of the standards (bill) will be a hard-sell since Pappy didn't give reasoning. And if eddie is the most likely lynch and he dosn't change his tune his list can deal some damage, too...

Nich (Apr 17):
We can worry about Eddie's list if it comes to that, but I think (and I may be wrong) people will be more interested in what Comb Stranger's death says than Pappy's list. No one really gave a crap about Nodal's, and Pappy made similarly dumb moves.

Destil (Apr 17):
That's a discussion I intend to be a big part of, so if anyone has any wells to poison I'm all ears.

Nich (Apr 17):
Alright. I'll shut up here for now to go over CS's post history to look for things we can twist.

Chady (Apr 17):
I think Pappy included Bongo Bill on his list because he is a quieter player that voted for him later in the day. I'm also a quieter player, but I voted for him day 1 as well, and I was the second to accuse today. All the others on his bandwagon list were at least average in their post counts.

Destil (Apr 17):
I'm really, really paranoid about going after BB. I think the second someone goes after him for real and it gets down to the brass tacks he's going to be like a cornered tiger. Or he'll keep joking around, but I'm worried that's an act (and fun for him). The Bronto forums play this game, right? Mabye we can read up on him...

Nich (Apr 17):
He's my second choice for a kill, actually. That stuff he said at the end of the day about knowing who he was going to accuse on day 3 leaves me pretty nervous. If we take care of him now, he never gets to come out with whatever it was. (And what if whatever it was was scanner-derived knowledge?)

Destil (Apr 17):
I could get behind that, too. CS doesn't have the best attentence record and he may be spotty for a few more days, for one thing. But I'd rather read some of his other mafia games if we take it on that. Suppose I need to go over to Bronto...
MY EYES! The goggles, they do nothing... (the part with the dinosaur and the mountain are pretty great, at least)

Destil (Apr 17):
http://sharkey.gamespite.net/forum/index.php?topic=4960.0 I'm stealing that ruleset...
He's running plenty of these games, but I haven't found any he's playing in...
CAN I even search for posts by a user without a keyword? Damn it.

Chady (Apr 17):
No, looks like you have to have a user login just to look at another user's profile.

Destil (Apr 17):
I signed up. I feel dirty now.

Chady (Apr 17):
I found one, (Vampires vs. Werewolves VI, http://sharkey.gamespite.net/forum/index.php?topic=4355.0), but they used so many power roles that it's hard to say how he'd play as a vanilla townie. Game results are on page 12 of the thread. Incidentally, Bongo will probably get a kick out of reading this in the speakeasy.

Brickroad@googlewave.com and me (Apr 18):
Man our mafia games are so much better than theirs. SO MUCH BETTER, YOU HEAR ME BONGO BILL? I KNOW YOU ARE READING THIS EVENTUALLY.
(I'm going to bold this and put it in extra large font when I archive this wave -Destil)

Kayma (Apr 17):
Psh.

Destil (Apr 17):
I got as far as the 'acution house' post and said fuck it. I'm tempted to vote for him just for playing in that game.
I'm headed to bed, I want to hear everyone else's opinions on this one tommorow. Sorry, guys. I can re-read a thousand TT posts for this game, but one page of bronto is just too much. I am beaten.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
Their bloody banner is practically the size of my screen. Too much real estate wasted there.

Chady (Apr 17):
Metagaming FTW... Argh! I tried going over there and it damn near crashed my browser (tho that may have more to do with keeping wave open in a seperate tab).

Nich (Apr 17):
I'm off to sleep. Let us know if you find anything interesting.

Chady (Apr 17):
I've seen some posts from Kayma over there (unless there's a different Kayma?)... do you have any insights on Bongo?
(the avatars... they are SO LARGE! Oh god, the giant animated SIGS </making fun of Bronto>)

Kayma (Apr 17):
Bongo is no stranger to Mafia/Werewolf.
Here's a game where he and I ruled the night as wolf brothers: http://sharkey.gamespite.net/forum/index.php?topic=4382.0
I'll keep searching for one where he was a townie so you guys can do your meta thang.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 17):
It's funny because it looks like he's playing that game the way we play ours, with logic/discussion etc., and pretty much everyone else is just all like DIIIICKS IN MAH FAAACE.

Kayma (Apr 17):
The "dicks in mah face" strategy should not be written off.
Anyway, here we go: http://sharkey.gamespite.net/forum/index.php?topic=4355.0
Two baddy teams (Werewolves, vampires) and the town; Bongo was the Thief, a fairly innocuous innocent role. He dies on page 8 from a night kill.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
That's it, I'm switching to DICKS IN MAH FAAAAAACE as of tomorrow

Chady (Apr 17):
Oh, I agree totally. He seems like a player that is saving his real stuff for the endgame.

Me and Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
I think my best bet here is to set up a new standard lynching, one that may not come to be for a day or two. I can get some early traction in against them (we only had, what? 2 lead in votes from yesterday and we still nearly swung eddie); smart players like sprite (who is of course not in the game, because I am dumb my name is Destil look at my dumb face, does anyone know why Paul's name is on this post? Must be a glich in the wave having Pauls name here) will follow their initial accusations when given the chance to keep a good clean history (i.e. how he stuck with truama day 2 and stuck with his plan day 5 in M2E), while stupid ones just cling onto some bit of nonsense because they start to think they're understanding the game.

Destil (Apr 16):
Or should we be more Machiavellian? For now we HAVE to hit that scanner. But if we manage tonight, perhaps we can start setting someone up where we can specifically kill someone else tommorow night and use that kill to frame first party...
I mean, we hear a crazy conspiracy theory or two every game, it would be great to make one true.

Destil (Apr 16):
Are you making the spreadsheet tonight (well, today for you, since it's like Saturday afternoon, right)? I can give you a hand if you want to divide the players in half or something, and it should give us a good tool for planning.
EDIT: In fact, if our scanner is playing things at face values, it might give us some insight on that front... Except they only have one result so far. Derh.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
My play today was to speculate not-too-publicly much like we did the other night: Why was guesty killed - possible inspector - why did they think that? - didn't want to lynch - who else? - Byron, who is also smart - Mafia want Byron dead -> Eddie wants Byron dead. If Eddie comes back up I may push this a little harder but I don't want to come out with it because that would, of course, be a bad idea as a standard. It also makes it harder for me to accuse Byron unless I come up with a different "secret reason."

Merus (Apr 16):
Brick's strategy gives me an idea - if we push on people hard enough, one of them is going to reveal themselves as the scanner. Perhaps it's a good idea for us to start pushing people to try and get the scanner to come out - after two days, it's possible that they don't have a lot of guilty names, and we'll likely lose some people, but their death will allow us to control the game mostly unopposed.

Mr. J (Apr 16):
I don't think that this will work very well in the current game. In East it worked well because we didn't have a ton of players to accuse, but here we have 1 and a half times as many plays. It seems like there would simply be too many people to play that tactic without getting called out on it. Why would a standard try to get the scanner revealed this early? They have no way of protecting him and if they pushed for a reveal it would be a waste.

Nich (Apr 16):
Yeah, this doesn't strike me as a productive move. If anyone figures out that we're doing it, it's too easy to get called on immediately.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 17):
On the other hand, if it's ME that does the pushing, and I turned out to have been scanned day one... we haven't really lost anything. Especially if they decide to auto-lynch. Brick uses obvious rogue tactic, turns out he is actually a rogue. A little too perfect. Let's make a decision on this before the night ends though. I'm willing to risk it.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
Exactly. Then again - if you've been scanned, they'll (probably) know better than to let you play them like that, because they'll see what you're doing as a mafia play. That said, I think it's a good idea to at least try. Of course, we can't call for the scanner to come out because that's just stupid at any angle. We'd have to put pressure on individuals and hope we actually hit the scanner for that to go through.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
Anybody else reading the thread logged out? I want to foil any potential metagaming shenanigans.

Kayma (Apr 17):
I haven't been, actually. Thought about it, but I figured that, if this was my first game and I was an innocent, I'd have nothing to hide.
Subsequent games? I am a ghost. I wonder if there's a setting to stay hidden somewhere...

Destil (Apr 17):
Arg. Yeah, I'm not liking the summary. Not only does it draw attention to a lot of things that are easy to miss and bad for us, but there's actual factual errors in there (eddie's list) that look terrible for us. Or at least Merus, Brick and I (I never did and never will make an arguement against suspicion lists, though I need to downplay them now).
Not sure how to deal with that. Suppose I can't, since drawing attention to it is worse than it being there in the first place. Maybe we get lucky and Eddie corrects him.
If nothing else, we can possibly use this in our favor. Anyone comes out against any of us based on that reason, we can loudly ask if they're even reading the thread, or just the summary. Especially if it's someone we could be going against anyway.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
The summary can do nothing but hurt us.
Spineshark: as a member of the mafia I am officially requesting that you, as the GM, send a request for him to stop posting his summaries publicly until the end of the game, for fear of metagaming possibilities. There, done and anonymously at that.

Brickroad@googlewave.com (Apr 17):
Let them have their little summary. And yeah, drawing attention to it is the worst thing you can do.
I like the idea of calling someone on "reading the thread" vs. "reading the summary". First person who gets a chance to lob that at a Standard wins a shiny new nickel. Nickle. Whatever. If you catch someone in this particular error and can discredit them, they'll lose face and the hivemind will be less likely to go along with them in the future.
Actually, the way to fix this in future games might be to have a Historian role who is not a player and is aligned with neither side, but knows game information beforehand, so as to make the summary as objective as possible. Or not. Thinkin' out loud here.

Destil (Apr 17):
I'd be for that, though there's a risk that they give too much away. I'd really just prefer that we wait on the summary until the end of the game. Eh.

Phantoon (Apr 17):
Heh heh. I'm only mentioned once, and that's for my "helpful" suggestion and not for my attempt to delete Loki. I'm sure that it is misleading for non Rogues too. Still, I'd prefer this was done after the fact.

Spineshark (Apr 17):
I've thought about saying something about the summary, but I don't really know how to put it. I do have to say that I'm pretty sure "knows nothing" is a whole lot more objective than "knows everything" though.

Destil (Apr 18):
Another thought: did you guys look into who asked about the virus/scanner timing issue day one yesterday?

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 18):
Comb Stranger is a smart cookie with good instincts. He did the whole "suddenly - bad internet connection!" thing last time too, although I won't say I actually suspect him of any kind of lie there because, seriously. I do know it didn't stop him from participating now and then, but I wonder how much influence he'll have. Little, once he's dead.
Others to keep an eye on include Byron - once he picked up on J so (so, so) easily, I knew he'd be a danger to keep around for very long. He's really suspicious, but I have a feeling he's going down the Merus path - suspicious, but never enough to actually lynch. We're going to have to kill him ourselves soon.
Bongo Bill - possibly bluffing regarding how smart he is. Want to see him in action. I think we should force him to come up with something by putting the pressure on him.
Loki - regarding quiet players who have a lot more going on than they let on, Loki's a possibly dangerous player. The upside is that he's going to have a hard time getting people to follow him without putting himself out there a lot more than he seems to be comfortable doing. He'll probably disappear into the background again now that Brick's laid off. This is likely to our benefit.
Demonkoala - want to see what all this analysis and plotting he's come up with actually amount to. He fit in really well in game 1, but dodging suspicion and brilliant deduction are different strengths (I know because I am good at one and laughably bad at the other~). I will personally push Demonkoala to SAY SOMETHING instead of pussyfooting around if he doesn't do it himself today so that we can get a read on him.
Eddie - I don't know what this boy is up to but he's not off the hook. Even if he comes up with new ideas, who can even follow what the hell he's saying? He flops around like a fish on a pier, and his history is not good. Definite possible lynch target.
Regarding night kills: I don't think it's efficient to try and hit the scanner, because there's a good chance we're just plain not going to. I think we should hit the strongest standard targets with a few misleading kills thrown in just in case. That said, I'm down with killing CS for the above reason, same as I was yesterday, and if he happens to also be the inspector like you suspect - so much the better!
Then again, Brick and Nich were also the inspectors vs. Mr J who played the quiet game. If anything, I think the most likely candidate for inspector might be Byron - he was on our list the other day, he's playing aggressively and loudly and wants to put himself in a position from which to point fingers without having to reveal himself. I don't think he IS the inspector, but it's as good a chance as any.

Destil (Apr 18):
Nich: one thing I noticed today was that you seem to be playing 'fair' a lot and defending people, but I'm noticing it more for rogues than standard. May be my own skewed perception, but I'd suggest backing up an innocent or two who has something flung at them today (not someone who's lynch bait, just someone drawing a little bit of heat from one or two sources).
If Eddie comes after me loudly I'll largely try and stay above it, hopefully it won't garner many votes. I won't ignore him but I'm not trying to get him lynched in response (accusing my accuser isn't my style). I would recomend no one here suggest it, but hopefully if I conduct myself well on that front it'll be viewed as two standards who tried to kill each other if he gets himself lynched. kisel I'll continue to politely ignore.
Also, feel free to come after me if you go for Bongo and DK today, Paul. I suggested I had some ideas, don't want you not comming for me to stand out.
I'm still pretty terrified of a big day 4 or 5 reveal. I'm all for taking out the smartest players (though would we start to stand out if we do that?), hopefully we'll continue get some intersection between possible scanners and strong players. I'm also keeping my eye out for anyone we can frame, especially if we can get it started a day or two in advance so it looks natural.

Destil
05-11-2010, 09:08 PM
Spineshark (Apr 23):
Mafia 3! Night 11! Go!
Now don't go! Night's Over!

Nich (Apr 21):
I want to kill Eddie tonight. I'm completely serious. It would confuse the town SO MUCH and give me some really excellent cover to lead a lynch to fanboymaster.
The logic would go like this: Dumbfounded that my #1 pick for day 100's lynch was already killed, I'd back off of Bongo Bill too, because I was accusing him under similar Brick-related logic. Instead, I'd point out something I think Brick left for us deliberately: he rode all the quiet players hard EXCEPT fanboymaster, whom he gave a cursory shake and then never revisited when he fell silent to. I'd argue that it was really suspicious given Brick's general strategy, and posit that the reason Brick gave him such a half-hearted effort was deliberate.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 22):
I buy the fanboymaster thing, KIND OF, but not Eddie. He's an easy lynch and even if not he'll pick

Destil (Apr 21):
A toast. To Brickroad!

Nich (Apr 21):
To Brickroad! May we honor him by giving him the only thing he'd ever want: victory from beyond the grave.

Merus (Apr 21):
To Brick!

Phantoon (Apr 21):
To Brick. His reputation has never been more deserved.

Kayma (Apr 21):
Sorry Brick. I tried to suck badly enough to get lynched, but I was just shy.

Chady (Apr 21):
Hear, hear!

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 21):
He gave the ultimate sacrifice.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 22):
Actually, WE gave the ultimate sacrifice. He wouldn't have been anywhere near a lynch if we didn't put him there. He absolutely did not need to die that day. Didn't we say something yesterday about holding back until we thought we would have to kill him? And yet right out of the starting gate, dogpile. Bongo Bill was 100% right, it DID seem too forced. That's why I ultimately held back from doing anything.

Merus (Apr 22):
I think Byron put a wrench in our plans there. We were going to play with Brick anyway, but Byron targeting him made it difficult. I figured that I might have been going too far, but the way the day played out it seemed right to go as hard as we could, and incriminate all the people who came out in Brick's defence.
As I say below, I think Brick was going to be less valuable to us as time went on. Let's face it, we don't exactly have a dearth of talent here. Brick was a nice-to-have, but losing him doesn't hurt us nearly as much as we can make out it does.

Destil (Apr 22):
I was actually kind of shocked when VE and Merus followed my accusation back to back. Didn't read VE's post from yesterday's wave yet, though...
It's also a pretty good example of how much voting power we have, and let's not forget it. Anytime we can move as a group but not look like we're moving as a group we can kill someone right now. Brick had 9 votes at the end of the night.
Also, yesterday sucked because it was clear we were going to either loose Brick or Kamaya from about the 12-18 hour mark. Sorry for jumping on the brick bus a little early, but I think it was the better option of the two.

Chady (Apr 22):
Yeah, I was pretty shocked when 5 of you guys piled on one after the other so soon in the day. As it stood, I only voted at the end because it looked like it was getting close and I thought Kayma might be easier to shield.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 22):
I piled on because it was either him or Kayma, and of the two I'd rather have the one we planned on dying die, even if we hadn't meant for it to happen quite yet. It was forced as hell, but the general ridiculousness of it makes a nice smokescreen. In any case, I don't think it left us in a bad position, although we're certainly in a weird one.

Phantoon (Apr 22):
I needed to get in quickly once it went south to try to avoid being seen as a bandwagon jumper. Long term plans are surprisingly difficult to keep to.

Spineshark (Apr 21):
He REALLY tried, I'll give him that.

Merus (Apr 21):
Oh, hey, spineshark. If we get to a point where we win, can you let the game run until the day so that we can reveal ourselves? I think it'd be fun for us to start the day up and start off with discussing how we should kill them all.

Spineshark (Apr 21):
This sounds acceptable to me in the current state.

Destil (Apr 21):
Okay. Let me open up my notes and let's do this night thing.

Merus (Apr 21):
Awesome work, girls and boys.
We've traded a mafia player that was going to become increasingly problematic for us for cover for at least three of us and four or five strong chances for lynching. We should be able to ride the results of the day for another three or four game days, and by then we just have a little more to go to win.
My feeling is that we need to kill Byron. The town will justify it favourably - revenge for finding Brick - and frankly I don't think we can get him lynched. He's very smart and far too dangerous to us.
We should probably make a quick list of people to keep an eye on, who might be in a position to be lynched tomorrow.
Also, special thanks to Eddie. We should make him an honourary rogue.

Phantoon (Apr 21):
Actually I feel a little sorry for Eddie. Well, slightly. He was loyal to the end. Shame it was so misplaced.

Destil (Apr 21):
I can't believe Eddie got so into it. I mean, hell. I'd almost lynch him at this point, and I think I'd be able to spot brick's setup as a standard (mabye, I thought he was doing it with paul last game).

Kayma (Apr 21):
Eddie is my favorite. I hope he doesn't take my attacks personally.

Phantoon (Apr 21):
I could have slapped him when he did the "You're only killing him because he's Brickroad" thing. If I was a standard I'd have pushed even harder when I found out. Because Brick's got a lot of swing and is difficult to remove, it turns out.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 22):
I'm in for Byron 100%.
~He's their smartest player, and the de facto leader if there is one - he led the charge against Brick. He also absolutely nailed J's accusation and we don't want to let that hang in the air for too long before he leads another charge.
~His only other strong suspicion so far has been Eddie, which will help us lynch him (as though we needed it).
~And I haven't abandoned my pet theory that he's the inspector - He went from hounding on Eddie day 1 to ignoring him with but one comment of "I still think you're suspicious," then today came straight out of the gate with a Brick attack. Note: as with any Inspector theory this is extremely tentative and probably not true, but hey. Boy can dream. Also he was on our original inspector list that got Guesty killed.

Destil (Apr 22):
Yeah. I can see him as the scanner. Though wouldn't he have scanned J last night? Maybe that's why he's suddenly so quiet with him. I'd think Brick then J...
Also, if he is I'm guessing Me, DK and Merus are next, bad for us.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 22):
It's possible. Then again, J came out swinging and Byron was already dead set on him, all within one day - he probably felt like he didn't need to waste the scan until later, especially if/since J quieted right back down after all that.
Let me repeat though that digging for the scanner is probably a fool's game no matter which way any of us slices it and I consider it nothing but a bonus if it's true. Then again, in M1 and M2W the scanner was in fact the biggest target from the start, so. DOUBLETHINK AHOY. We can probably make a good case for any single player to be the scanner if we look hard enough. Not sure it's worth the time.

Destil (Apr 22):
Agreed for tonight. If we can kill the 2-3 remaining dangerous players with night kills/lynches over the next two days then we can go back to 'wack-a-scanner'. Bigger fish to fry tonight.

Phantoon (Apr 21):
Yeah, I'd agree on Byron. He's getting more and more dangerous and this result makes him credible. If we kill him tonight it looks like revenge rather than trying to stop him saying something.

Merus (Apr 21):
Exactly, now's the time to do it.

Phantoon (Apr 21):
I'm thinking we won't get many chances with Byron without making it obvious what we're up to.
I'd like to get Bongo Bill lynched tomorrow. He's good but was obviously on the wrong side of the argument. If we can push gently we may get him.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 22):
He's a decent target but I'm not sure he'll fly. I'd love to string him up, but if we don't he'll need to die at night soon. He IS pretty smart and analytical - notice his spotting the organized charge on Brick. Luckily he's also rather conspicuously quiet and will dredge up some suspicion. Just tread with care - he may bite back, and hard.

Nich (Apr 21):
My concern here is that Bill and Eddie are too obvious targets to try to lynch tomorrow. Byron was able to undo pretty much everything J leveled against him by saying exactly as much at the beginning of day 2. Byron I think we can get later, because I'm assuming I'm not going to survive until the end either. You can get him lynched when I die, because he's been on my side in a lot of things. (Notably today, when it was him and me vs. Eddie and Brick and Calories.)

Merus (Apr 21):
My feeling is that we should work out some arguments then let the chips fall where they may. We can start discussion, but our hands will be clean if we don't bandwagon. There's three or four people that we can make a good case against.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 21):
There's a good chance ThornGhost will take up the tirade against Bongo. It's doable, but it would definitely be too risky for us to really force it, I think.

Nich (Apr 21):
If he does, I'll jump on that and others can come in later depending on how viable the lynch looks. I've already been in the anti-Bill camp today, so it won't look as weird.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 22):
I'm also down as wary of Bill, but my long-standing Eddie suspicion will likely return today as well.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 22):
For what it's worth I don't like that (posting it) anyway because it's tipping my hand more than I'd like. Just a card in the deck.

Nich (Apr 21):
Well, Byron I think should be night killed either tomorrow night or the night after, depending on how much we can bend him to our plans tomorrow. So of that group I'd say Garrison seems like the safest bet. He's made frivolous accusations of spineshark day 10 and 11 and never seems to commit to a real accusation. That kind of wishy-washiness can and should get him lynched.

Spineshark (Apr 21):
That was my joke. He said "I accuse the next person to defend Bongo Bill" so I made a joking defense and added him as accusing me. Then he ran with it, hopefully because it was funny.

Nich (Apr 21):
Oh, ha, I missed that.

Destil (Apr 21):
Yeah. Good point. He also flew under the radar last game, which is a good reason that him continuing to do so this game is good ammo... let me re-read his posts once and see what else I can dig up...

Nich (Apr 21):
Right. Play up the "Why haven't you changed your game?" angle, especially since his game last time was based on his status as a rogue and not a helpful standard.

Destil (Apr 21):
On the Eddie front: What do we expect him to do tommorow? Can we even predict it, it should be easy to get inside the dude's head. Does he take up the torch of hitting quiet players? Will he just stay on the defensive? Thoughts? If we think it's likely he'll do something we can twist to kill someone else then let's do that, and let everyone lynch Eddie for us Tommrow.

Nich (Apr 21):
Honestly I expect him to accuse me or Byron or both. Or go after Kayma. That's a 2 in 3 shot he'll be charging after a rogue, which are odds I don't like, which is why I want to kill him tonight.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 21):
Could he get away with going after the Brickslayer? I think Kayma is most likely.

Nich (Apr 21):
Probably not! So it's me or Kayma. So let's kill him. Without Eddie to carry on Brick's work, our job of concealing Kayma becomes much simpler: we just ignore him, or point out that Kayma was Brick's initial accusation today. Bongo I expect to lie a little bit lower after being so wrong about Brick (though I could be wrong on this front, and if I am, we can revaluate killing him tomorrow night). That leaves us pretty clear.

Kayma (Apr 21):
I fully expect Eddie to, if not charge with an accusation, to be seriously on my case. Bongo as well, though I think he will be rethinking himself this evening. Besides, I can probably handle Bongo by ignoring the hell out of him.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 21):
The worst part about this is how the prevailing consensus is that Kayma is rogue, but it's not worth killing him yet. That's probably not going to change with Eddie's death or Bongo's defanging. Brick's accusation was very in-character for Brick, and I bet a lot of people wouldn't have a problem believing he'd sacrificed Kayma. We're going to need to latch onto the discussion that will pop up about Brick's associations and keep them too busy to come back. Killing Eddie will help in that he won't redirect it back to Kayma, but that's about it.
Going after fanboymaster would have the side effect of returning quiet players to the forefront of the town, now that I think about it. It might not be something we want to do after all (although if it does happen, we could manipulate it. or maybe we could use his innocence to keep everyone off kayma? who knows)
Sorry Luke, I think you're going to be under heavy suspicion for the rest of the game. :/

Nich (Apr 21):
I dunno if it's all that bad. Brick accusing Kayma helped, as will the fact that most of the accusations were done to kick silent players in the ass, not actually kill them. If Kayma actually starts participating now (WHICH YOU NEED TO DO) then I think people will leave him alone. I also think fanboymaster's death, if we can engineer it, will help by proving that Brick's/Eddie's "plan" wasn't actually so great. As Brick said, so far none of the people he accused actually died, which will make fanboymaster the first. (By the way, we could do everything I'm suggesting about fanboymaster with Loki too. Either works for me.)
Killing Eddie will ALSO help. I'm totally serious! Let's kill Eddie!

Kayma (Apr 21):
Yikes.

Merus (Apr 21):
He's been insinuating that I'm suspicious, and his paranoia is not going to let him forget that. I went after Brickroad hard, which is fairly easy to paint as a rogue player knowing that they're going to score a victory, and I backed off my arguments as the day went on which is again easy to paint as me trying to give Brick an out if he managed to argue his way out of it.

Nich (Apr 21):
Hmm. I feel like the problem here is that you're in danger if Byron lives, and Kayma and I are in danger if Eddie does. My act at the end of the day was really designed in the hopes we'd be killing Eddie--I don't know what I'm going to do if we leave him alive. I think Byron is going to be easier to string along and distract from you than Eddie will be from us, but I'm not sure if that's a rational assessment or if I'm just trying to cover my ass.

Phantoon (Apr 22):
I'm fairly sure we can throw a spanner in Eddie's plans. He's been seriously and blatantly played by a Rogue and fell for it hook line and sinker. His judgement is compromised. Byron's will now be seen as excellent and he's a serious threat. I'd kill Byron over Eddie any day for tonight's kill.

Merus (Apr 21):
I honestly don't see Eddie as much of a threat - I think we can lead him around by the nose if we have to. This is the guy who started the game by playing dumb and only stopped when it became abundantly clear that it was about to get him killed; he's no strategic genius.

Nich (Apr 21):
All right. I'm still strongly in favor of Eddie for a number of reasons (eases the pressure from me and Kayma, likely to result in a wasted scan, possibility that he's the scanner), but if we kill Byron instead, I guess I can jump on him tomorrow even if no one else follows me. I don't really have another play at this point after the stuff I said at the end of day 11.

Merus (Apr 21):
I'm happy to help kill Eddie, too - he did sign his death warrant spending so much time defending Brick. If he goes after you or Kayma, I'll try and head him off. (I've already set up that I'm keeping a close eye on Eddie, so no-one will think it strange that I go straight for him.)

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 22):
I like Eddie's post about how his relations don't define his guilt, his own actions do. I think that still makes him pretty easy to lynch. :P

Phantoon (Apr 22):
And a Rogue may well say that if his ally's about to swing. It's not much of a defence.

Nich (Apr 21):
All right. I need you to make a much more convincing case than I will, though. Half-baked and shitty reasons for accusing people is kind of my thing.

Merus (Apr 21):
Yeah, absolutely. I think I did okay with Brick, and I'll see what I can stick to Eddie. If I can't stick Eddie with anything, I'll have to wait until he makes a move and take that apart. (I doubt he'll have anything damning on you, anyway.)

Nich (Apr 21):
Yeah, probably not. His reasoning at the end of day 11 was getting pretty hilarious. "Nich has nothing that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that I'm a rogue--and he's accusing me anyway!" Um, yeah.

Merus (Apr 21):
Nor anything that proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that Brick was a rogue, as people kept reminding us. But of course he was, because he's a competent rogue. (Ooh, there's an angle.)

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 22):
Not just ANY people who reminded us we had nothing on Brick. THE SAME GUY. Oh, Eddie!

Nich (Apr 21):
It's really a shame Pappy had to go nuts, because now we can't play the "self-accusation is never a good sign" card.

Mr. J (Apr 21):
I think Eddie is more dangerous tomorrow. Byron could be a problem int he long run, but Eddie has been lashing out recently. I;m worried he'll simply doggedly stay on one of your guy's backs. Byron on the other hand is a little unsure of himself and we can use that to keep him from making a solid case. He kind of rolled over when I pointed out about that his list was reductionist.

Nich (Apr 21):
Maybe today we could just put it to an honest-to-goodness vote. Byron or Eddie, whichever of them gets the most kill votes croaks.

Nich (Apr 22):
Goddammit Brick. He is going to ruin our careful plans to lynch Eddie with that avatar of his, but I can't stop laughing anyway.

Destil (Apr 22):
Okay. so I think we've all agreed on one of three targets for tonight, right? Should we make a list of pros and cons or something? I could go for any of 'em and I want 'em all dead by the morning of day 1001...
Go ahead and add anything you can think of to these posts.

Destil (Apr 22):
Eddie
Pros: Gives the town the least information (biggest mindfuck).
May go for Nich/Kamaya tommrow (safest kill to try and keep Kamaya off table for lynching).
Cons: Terrible instincts, will likely attract a few votes today
I think he's the easiest lynch, may even happen without us doing anything...
No way he's the scanner with the stunt he pulled day 0010
He has a horridly low view of the number of rogues and if the standards latch onto that it's a huge win in our book. We'll win the game 4-5 turns before they really think they're in danger; I'd rather leave him alive as long as possible incase he brings it up again.

Destil (Apr 22):
Bongo Bill
Pros: Smart fucking player, I regret not killing him yesterday (really good instincts).
If he is the scanner I don't think he scanned brick early, easily the most dangerous of the three if he is...
I fear attempting to manupliate him, I think he'll see right through it.
Cons: I think Kamaya is actually in really bad shape if we kill Bongo tonight. VE too.
We can at the very least hope Tock or someone views today as Bongo and Brick ganging up on him kamaya and then lampshading when other people jump on Brick.
Second easiest lynch after Eddie.

Kayma (Apr 23):
Oo can I do it can I do it?

Destil (Apr 23):
The *only* other option I can think of is to do a counter-reveal as the scanner yourself if you're fingered and get the town to lynch you, then we night-kill the real scanner. It at the very least throws them into question. But I really doubt that will fly and unless the situation is perfect (if they only claim me to be guilty and the rest innocent) I don't plan on doing so myself.

Nich (Apr 23):
I'm again going to have to plead with everybody not to fake being the scanner under any circumstances. In the scenario given, if you fake and you're lynched (revealing you to be corrupt) and then the other claimant dies overnight, you're deluding yourself if you think the town can be convinced they were also faking. If we're caught out, which is likely to happen someday, the BEST course of action is to push for the auto-lynch. (Unless it would be out of character, like for Destil.) Anything else benefits the town more than it benefits us.
Learn the lesson of dwolfe. Recognize when you've been made and cut your losses. Salvage what you can from the situation (the auto-lynch) and we'll go from there.

Destil (Apr 23):
I'll most likely go for Auto-lynch at this point. The ONLY way I could see it working is if they only have me and I can possibly discredit the block, at least a little. But since the odds of the scanner even bothering to come out with one guilty are quite low I don't see it happening.

Nich (Apr 23):
Still suboptimal. Here's the numbers.
Fake Scanner Gambit
Destil fakes, is lynched (1 rogue lost)
Scanner is night killed (1 standard lost)
Next day's lynch: ?
Next day's night kill (1 standard lost)
Auto-lynch, no fake
Scanner lynched (1 standard lost)
Night kill (1 standard lost)
Next day's lynch: Destil (1 rogue lost)
Next day's night kill (1 standard lost)
Every time we get the town to lynch a standard, that is a win for us. The rogues that the scanner names are going to die, one way or another. Put it out of your minds that we can discredit the scanner and save them. Our focus should always be getting the town to lynch their own instead of us. Fronting a fake scanner, in any scenario, deviates from that mission.

Phantoon (Apr 23):
Yeah. I'd love to play in a game that doesn't have a massive disadvantage for playing as a fake scanner but this game isn't it.

Nich (Apr 23):
Man, day 100 is supposed to start in like 20 minutes. Where spineshark at?

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 23):
HEY GUYS THE VIRUS IS ACTING. rite?
I really hope someone says that. No, really. I'd get a kick out of it.

Spineshark (Apr 23):
I didn't forget, calm down. I'm writing this up now. Byron is Nobody Special.

Nich (Apr 23):
Gotcha. (I'm telling you guys, it's totally Eddie.)

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 23):
"I didn't forget, calm down." but now i'm so disappointed

Kayma (Apr 23):
Just an FYI guys; I have the GRE in the morning, so if I come off as conspicuously quiet (moreso?), I'm sorry.

Phantoon (Apr 23):
Byron is quite special enough to be deleted.

Destil
05-11-2010, 09:11 PM
Spineshark (Apr 28):
Mafia 3, Night 100. I hope yall are pleased with yourselves.
Voting is closed. demonkoala was not the scanner.

Destil (Apr 26):
I want Eddie alive. I plan to convince him to commit suicide for the greater good in two days. I am 100% seruous.

Nich (Apr 26):
I want Eddie dead tonight. It's too good a situation to pass up. Destil and I both get reverse Comb Stranger'd. Merus, we took care of your problem last night; I want my problem taken care of tonight.

Kayma (Apr 26):
Wait; if we lynch Eddie, doesn't that cast a somewhat shady light on you and Destil? Eddie's "these are the loud guys, and the ones left might be rogues" argument has me sincerely worried.

Nich (Apr 26):
Yeah, it does. That's the point. Why didn't Eddie ultimately get lynched today? He looked TOO guilty for people to really believe. Eddie's foursquare against Destil and I, and then he gets whacked during the night, putting us in a terrible light. But since it's known the rogues killed him, and they had a reason for doing so, people distrust the simple explanation like "Destil and Nich are rogues and wanted him silenced."
Also, frankly, I need Eddie dead now so I can stop accusing him and move on to more productive matters. The longer this stalemate goes, where I pretend to be absolutely convinced he's rogue so I accuse him every day and he never dies, the worse it looks for me. Taking him out tonight takes that onus off me where I can put the heat on someone else.

Destil (Apr 26):
Honestly, after today I think you guys should write me off as a casuality of the scanner unless we get lucky tonight. Nich has kept a lower profile. But don't be afraid to turn on me for a second and don't get caught defending me too loudly. I was prepairing to be public enemy number one when I thought Eddie was going down, and I think I can wiggle my way out of a lynch for a few days, but I'm living on borrowed time if Eddie dies.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 26):
I don't know if a Comb Stranger would fly after Eddie got off on one the day before. Plus, it sets up this expectation of noisy players dying... which is what we sacrificed Brick to avoid.

Nich (Apr 26):
It will take supreme effort, but I can be convinced to vote for someone other than Eddie tonight. All I'm saying is, you do that, and I'm lynched tomorrow, I guarantee it. Eddie's woken up and now that he's escaped a lynching and convinced the town he's not rogue, he's going after me and Destil.
We kill Eddie now, we kill him before he's ever led the lynch of a confirmed rogue. He's still got all that baggage from siding with Brick for people to seriously consider who he thinks is guilty or non. We let him live tomorrow and he manages to lead a lynch against me or Destil? The other one is going down the next day.

Destil (Apr 26):
Eddie's so fucking unpredictable this game. I don't think I'd be suprised if he goes for McDohl again... I think the only reason he had the conviction to go with me and Nich was that he felt his death would make it more effective, he all but martyred himself today and I think that was his plan. I'm willing to risk it but if Nich isn't we may need to off him tonight. My original thought was kill a quiet player, make a shot at the scanner and also make people associate 'quiet' kills with the rogues and not wonder why we're (Nich and I) dead. The Standards are dumb enough to fall for the 'that's what the rogues do' logic, I've seen plenty of -people argue it.

Nich (Apr 26):
Alright, so I've calmed down a bit and I'm no longer scared shitless of Eddie. We can whack someone else and it probably won't be a disaster for me or Destil. (If he asks us why we're still alive, it's easy enough to turn the question around on him.)
I do think it's worth considering him solely for the possibility that he may be the scanner. It's possible that Eddie's simply got his head in the game more than most others and that's why he appears to have made Destil and I. It's also possible that he knows it for a fact, given the way Destil's acted and the way I challenged him hard at the tail end of day 3--that's the kind of thing that makes you scan somebody. If others disagree, we move on to another candidate. But I think, if any scanner would play a game this risky to fool us, it would be Eddie. Let's not make the same mistake the town is making of assuming our nemesis is hiding with the silent players when he could be in plain sight.

Merus (Apr 26):
It might be bad for you and Destil, but honestly it's going to be bad for you and Destil anyway. Eddie's probably going to keep pushing you, and I think we can argue that the rogues want the loud players dead to make the town run around like chickens with their heads cut off. I'm happy to kill Eddie tonight.
Either way, I'm probably going to spend day 101 asking some hard questions of you, Nich. I'll have to put some together so you've got some fair warning and enough time to come up with some clever answers.

Nich (Apr 26):
I don't think he will keep pushing tomorrow. I think we can push him elsewhere if we drop our prodding at him, which I'm only too happy to do. (Ironically, I'm now as against killing Eddie as I was for it earlier.)

Merus (Apr 26):
Well, it's probably going to look better for you if I take a bat to you, and it'll give you something to do other than attack Eddie. We got a little sloppy yesterday, but that's fine, if people don't notice.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
If. People have been going back and finding more stuff from the past, more than I'd usually give them credit for. GH's digest on why Brick didn't mention Kayma or QP - despite having logical errors (The difference between Brick accusing/noticing someone and suspecting them under his plan - of course, that's corrupt so) - raises good points. Nameless wondering aloud why Byron was dead if he was such a good virus candidate (which he was) and how that means we probably already converted, etc. And then there's what Eddie just dug up. And Thorn noticing Nich and Brick's artificial banter.

Nich (Apr 26):
That part's fine with me. Let's plan it carefully, though, and not follow up with each other too quickly so it's not an unbroken string of back and forth. ThornGhost noticed me doing that with Brick.
Also, be careful not to let it overshadow our main target tomorrow. We don't want a repeat of day 11, where it turned from "have a couple guys suspect Brick to" "okay, everyone pile on Brick."

Nich (Apr 26):
The other reason I'm nervous about the Q&A, besides it potentially taking center stage, is that I'm coming to think it's unhealthy for us to interact too much. The size of the player pool works to our advantage--it's really hard for people to notice any two players not talking to each other. The thread's so big now that all ThornGhost did when he worked on Brick's "relationships" was search for people who mentioned his name--he didn't have the energy to look through everyone who addressed Brick directly without saying his name, or else he would have found a ton of back-and-forth between him and Calorie Mate on day 11.

Merus (Apr 26):
True, but I'm also worried about leaving Eddie's charge against you unanswered. He has a good point, and it's going to be conspicuous if no-one addresses it.

Nich (Apr 26):
The issue as I see it, especially with someone as paranoid as Eddie, is he'll see joining him in questioning me as suspicious as leaving it alone. I wouldn't want you to get marked because you suddenly decided to start interrogating me--he might see it as trying to buddy up. I intend to answer him if he starts, but I think it's best to let me defend myself and leave it between me and Eddie. If he's the only one pressing it, it's also good for me, because suddenly I have two people who were constantly on my case: Brickroad and Eddie. That's beneficial while I'm alive and also beneficial should I be lynched.
Basically, yes, it's suspicious if no one calls me on not being night killed. But suspicious on who? He won't know. Whereas siding with him gives him a clear target.

Destil (Apr 27):
The best we can hope for is someone else siding with him, Calorie would be the most likely I think...
I feel more comfortable defending myself against Eddie's arguements than his hanging corpse. He and I have been going at it all game and I'm making some serious effort to look better during the scuffs (i.e. encouraging him to do better and conceding points where he's right; trying to come off as the good guy).

Destil (Apr 26):
That's decidedly less fun. But possibly a good idea... Big text dump aproaching:
Guys, we absoutly can not afford to move as a pack like that again. Sorry if I suggested otherwise last night. We did a good job of comming to Eddie from different angels today, but in the end if you just look at the two lists it was terrible for us.

Here's the vote on Brick:

Byron
vaterite
Destil
Merus
VorpalEdge
Kayma
Phantoon
Calorie Mate
The Giant Head
demonkoala
chady

Here's the vote on Eddie during the begining of the switch.

Nich
PapillonReel
Destil (withdrawn)
Kayma
vaterite
VorpalEdge (withdrawn)
Calorie Mate (withdrawn)
Merus
McDohl
Tock
Paul le Fou
Phantoon
I'm glad that Vorpal and I got off of that one, even if I did flop around to do it. Because someone's going to notice at this rate.
Also: Nich, Merus and I all but tripped over each other trying to help the M1E mafia boys lynch Umby.
I think we should make some specific effort to split up and work different lynches for a day or two. There will always be a big bandwagon at the end of the day when the standards want a defenite kill. I don't want to risk 2-3 of us being scanned and then the rest being caught by association. Remember, the standards will have a week and a half of perfect lynches where they can comb the thread if the scanner comes out like that (honestly, I wasn't looking forward to that stage of the game even as a standard).

Nich (Apr 26):
No, I agree. Today would have been bad for a lot of us if Eddie died by lynching. I'm all for planning the next few days out a bit more carefully.
On the flip side, one thing we have going for us with the Eddie situation is that it's really difficult to believe so many mafia would stick their necks out at once. If for whatever reason we're ever pressed on that issue, you can fall back on the stuff I posted... on day 10, I think, about the frequency and position of mafia votes during lynches.

Phantoon (Apr 26):
I actually wished that Eddie had gone through from a selfish point of view. ThornGhost's batting average will be the death of me if this continues. It's not that I've got a perfect batting average, it's that the Town downright refuses to kill anyone I vote for. Of course, I'm not supposed to know that, so I can't argue that way.

Nich (Apr 26):
What you can argue, if you find yourself needing to, is that the people with 1.0 batting averages are the only people whose averages we actually know. Just because someone didn't accuse a guy who turned out to be guilty doesn't mean the person they accused wasn't also guilty; likewise a person who didn't accuse someone that was innocent may have also been targeting an innocent. There's too many unknowns for the rest of the town to get anything but the most cursory data from the batting average idea. You can point that out.

Phantoon (Apr 26):
Thanks Nich. I'm thinking I steer well clear of the argument until I have to because I don't want it to draw any attention. I know McDohl like this line of thought too, but in a way that's rather worse for my continued health.

Destil (Apr 27):
Honestly, I beat up on Thorn for this plan being stupid when he first put it out there and I'm going to continue with things like "Standards have no control over where they fall on the chart." and "If you say that more rogues will have pattern X then rogues can make a choice to change their average, while standards are stuck trying to hit rogues" and "there's so much unknown information here that I doubt it's really a valid breakdown. Some really contentious votes like Eddie are still up in the air, after all.."

Destil (Apr 27):
And see my first post, Phantoon. If we're one lynch away from the win and both of us are still in the game I'm going to try and convince Eddie to kill himself. Dude's wanted to for days, especially if he can get me by doing so. I think I can convince him that it's like lynching the scanner because we've had so many contentious votes on him and once he's known a clear picture of how everything has gone will form.
And even if Nich and I are both killed, I think the town will eventually turn on poor Ed. It happened to me in M2E, you can only be the top suspect for a week or so before everyone decides you're better off dead reguardless.

Kayma (Apr 26):
Also of note: The Bongo lynch list!
Bongo Bill: 11
namelessentity
Rai
The Giant Head
VorpalEdge
Umby
demonkoala
Destil
ThornGhost
fanboymaster
kaisel
Loki
A scant two rogues? The town basically won this day for us by lynching an inno and avoiding a shady Eddie lynch. I'll get the chanpagne.
Nich (Apr 26):
Oh man, is this the thread where I get to giggle with glee over how awesome today was for us overall? Not only did Bongo Bill die for reasons that really made no sense, he died WITHOUT LEAVING A SUSPECT LIST. Enjoy that one, because we won't get that every day.

Destil (Apr 26):
Go town! Don't forget Umby, guys! He's just as bad.
The suspect list is a wash if we hit Eddie tonight, though. At least as far as suspects. But mabye we can string someone up for letting that happen.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
Umby. Oh man.
Edit: Seriously, what the hell. Umby. Hahaha.

Nich (Apr 26):
Eddie's suspect list is much different in the context of a mafia kill than a lynch. In the context of a lynch, he's speaking honestly about his suspicions and they can be taken as such, since the town overall collaborated on killing him. In the context of a night kill, the town has to wonder "Is that what we're supposed to think?"

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
He's already put out the suspicions. Either he gets lynched or he gets whacked, it verifies them some. The question is: which way gives us the best opportunity to profit?

Nich (Apr 27):
I think he may retract them or try something else tomorrow. Here's why: a big part of his reasoning was "if left unchecked, Destil and Nich will overrun discussion and control the town." But I failed to kill him today--the town isn't listening to me at all. He can't claim I've got the town under my thumb if none of the people I've voted for, except Nodal, are dead. (I wish Destil hadn't jumped to Bongo for this reason, but oh well.)

Destil (Apr 27):
Honestly, I've been more Eddie's buddy than anyone except Brick, it's part of my cover at this point. I don't want to say "but no one listens to me" because that was Brick's defense and people are going to catch onto that. I think I can dismantle each of Eddie's points against me and looks failry good doing so if I'm not too defensive, especially since he may have me as his top suspect, but he only claims that I need to go under the microscope, not that I'm a rogue. I can explain every action I've taken.

Destil (Apr 26):
True, but we're piling a LOT of improbable facts onto Eddie's shoulders. Someone's going to balk at it. Ah, well. I wasn't too worried about it when he was going to be lynched, it was the vote record that terrified me.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
People already have. One reason I've kept my suspicion of him planted in his retarded first two days instead of his later power-play ones, a point I will definitely press if he comes up again. Also, that his argument against leaving loud people to dominate conversation goes DOUBLE for him since he's doing far more strategizing, suggesting, and manipulating than Destil or Nich (as I also plan to address should it be necessary).
Also, "You trusted Brick" could possibly take us a decent distance on getting people to ignore him for now.

Nich (Apr 27):
Yeah. Be sure to draw a distinction between your trust of his general theory and your trust of his character judgement. (i.e. auto-lynch: yes, "this guy is clearly X": no)

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 26):
Bongo's suspect was ThornGhost iirc. Which is even better!
Waking up to see him dying was amazing.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
Woulda preferred that Eddie went down without that suspicion post, but Umby telling everyone to lynch Bongo was kinda shocking in a different way.

Nich (Apr 26):
Yeah, I'm going to be piling on Thorny hard tomorrow first thing. I said back on day 1 "if someone votes to kill without a suspect list, that's about the most suspicious thing you can do." ThornGhost was BEGGING people to vote for Bongo and Bongo hadn't posted jack.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 26):
Thing is, it was all citizens who thought Bongo was practically confirmed rogue. That tack would incriminate more than just Thorn.

Nich (Apr 26):
Yeah, but Thorn was the one on Bongo's "list" and it was him who said "Hey Tock, cast the deciding vote now plz." I think it looks way worse for Thorn than anyone else. (I'm even going to defend kaisel and Loki on it in the eventual case of my being found out.)

Destil (Apr 27):
Alright, let's split up.
I say Merus helps Garrison and Tock lynch Umby tommorow.
Nich seems to be planning on going for Thorn, more power to you buddy.
Should someone try and work with ThornGhost's list as well? It's pratically Nich's M2E day 2 list all over again (but if we want to work the list be careful, remember what happened to Byron).
I think I should go after McDohl. We lynch him and prove at least one of Eddie's instincts wrong, which may help break up his Nich-Destil association. It's also a nice quiet corner I can wander off to; if I'm scanned or lycnhed in the next day or two I won't be bringing any of you with me (except possibly our good pal Eddie).
Any other leads?

Nich (Apr 27):
I think some of us should be going after Kaisel and Loki on similar grounds as my Thorn accusation. Thorn was the one pushing for Bongo's lynch, Kaisel was the actual deciding vote, and Loki safely bandwagoned onto it afterward with little to no reason given. They all look guilty as hell.
I haven't really explained it yet, but my key point against Thorn is working to deny the town information (Bongo's full suspect list), which I'm going to paint as being a cardinal, unforgiveable sin, even worse than being against the auto-lynch. (I'm expecting Eddie to back me up on this point, which is the fun part.) Kaisel and Loki are both as guilty of that as Thorn, and I'd like to see the less reasoned rogues (chady, Kayma, maybe Mr. J) take up the cause of one or the other of them after I come out against Thorn.

Merus (Apr 27):
I think there might be enough evidence there to send a little love kaisel's way. We haven't really done much with him, might as well press him if I can put an argument together.

Destil (Apr 27):
I've been actually considering asking if you felt he was on the up and up in public and if you said yes accusing him at some point over the past few days, since he was the bottom of your suspect list in M1 :P. Go for it! I'll stay clear of that one.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 28):
That's a little too meta, I'm inclined to think. Intragame is one thing but accusing someone based on someone ELSE'S trust from a whole different game is pretty far out there.

Destil (Apr 27):
Second point: What's our plan for the end of the day when we need to make sure a vote goes through? Should we have designated people who can switch?
After today I think I'm high enough of risk of being scanned that I'd be willing to go on the line. I'm going to play off today's flopping as such, which gives me some leeway to move around at the end of a day in the future:
People want to know why I changed my vote from Eddie yesterday. Well, look back at the first time I changed my vote away from Eddie (the second time I voted for him). Eddie had, by the end of the day, removed my reason for voting for him from the table. And as much as you guys wanted PR dead, I really didn't see him as a rogue (I mean, if they all just vote for themselves so easily let's just pack up and go home early). So I retracted my vote with a few hours left, but I didn't do what I should have done: started my case against Brickroad a day early and tried to convince people not to lynch Pappy. For what it's worth I wasn't as convinced on Brick until day three (his stikcing to the "lynch the useless" rather than "lynch people who may be rogues" bit was more of a tell with each passing day). So I held off and let my vote go uncommited, because I thought there wasn't the time to change people's minds (like I said then, I expected half the players not to even look at the thread again before it closed).
Yesterday Calorie Mate opened my eyes a bit. I was in the exact same situation, but here's a guy who's actually trying to stop it, and other people are listing? If I can't realise, own up to and learn from my own mistakes then you guys should lynch me now, because believe me I have lots of bad ideas. Most of them I'm okay about self-editing, sticking to something like that would put me in the same boat as Nodal (who I was also right about, but I don't regret; day one lynching someone nearly at random is the way things go). While my "This is America" post was a throw-away gag, I'm honestly starting to think that way. Vote for the person most likely to be a rogue you think you can lynch or throw your vote away.
I still think the real key to our success is going to be accurate votes, as I've said before. A last minute scramble is no excuse for voting for someone you strongly suspect is a standard. But if there's several possible rogues on the table, go for the one who'll get strung up.

Nich (Apr 27):
It's an okay defense, but make sure people actually want to know why you change your vote before you post it. Most people don't bother overexplaining their vote shifts. If you get super-defensive before anyone even accuses you or calls you on it, that's a huge warning sign. (It's how we caught Marion in M2W, after all.)

Destil (Apr 27):
Well, of course. My primary plan for any suspision that I come under today after Eddie's post is ignoring it or casual deflection.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
We should each have suspects ready that we can vote for safely. For example, I can hang on Eddie because I have a long-standing suspicion of him, Umby because hahaha Umby, Loki because I've mentioned him before, fanboymaster or even McDohl because I've hinted suspicion at people who play too quietly for their (the citizens') own good. I could ostensibly go after someone quiet and conveniently not get online before I can change my vote away if we're in the endgame (I purposely left my vote on Eddie today - signed in and signed back out real quick to keep a better alibi than whatever I could whip up on the spot). Any of that, handled carefully of course, would not be contradictory outside an easy handwaving. As long as we stay consistent with ourselves, what we've said about players and strategies, and how we've played so far, we don't give them anything to go on besides rampant paranoia which I'm not sure sells too well these days.

Phantoon (Apr 27):
I'll go for Eddie mainly, but I'll pick up on Lonki again. I had him in my sights on Day 2 and he's been conspicuous by his absence.

Nich (Apr 26):
Alternately, if we want to keep trying for the scanner, I'm looking hard at demonkoala. I don't have the file of evidence I gathered during the day with me now, but I'll post it when I get home.

Destil (Apr 26):
I wrote up a scanner post last night, but my top kill for it was The Giant Head. It approaches things from a different angle than we ususually do, though...

Destil (Apr 26):
I've been reading the post records of the quiet players and trying to determine who they would have scanned if they're scanner. My idea is kill the one who will cause the most harm if they are. Since we have no real chance to feel out the scanner let's try and do as much damage control as possible if the stars do align.
The Giant Head
For Auto Lynch
N1 - ? (let's put it at best case of .25 ish)
N2 - Byron or Mr J. (.5) (930)
N3 - Kayma (1442)
N4 - Vorpal (1815)
Suspected rogue rits (SRH): 2.75
Rai
40 may be him asking as the scanner. Won't be putting money on this one.
The last line of 635 is one of the best bits of this thread!
N1 - (.35)
N2 - J (658 862)
N3 - Kamya (1096)
N4 - Bongo? (1658)
SRH: 2.25
McDohl
N1 - Brick? (meta)
N2 - J? (688) Tock? (897)
N3 - Kayma (1152)
N4 - Kaisel (?)
SRH: .5
fanboymaster
N1 - Not brick (unless he really read M2)
N2 - ?
N3 - ThornGhost (1094 1129) Calories (1252)
N4 - A brick defender? (1708)
SRH: 0.0
Of these four, I recomend also keeping McDohl alive because he's the most likely to be lynched, even if he had a higher SRH.
The Giant Head, however, figured out Vorpal after I typed this up, which is a problem. He doesn't have any conviction behind the theory and it's so late in the day we have no real idea who amoung the standards will latch on... But if they start getting low on ideas they may come for him if TGH can make himself heard.

Chady and me (Apr 26):
I was comparing lynch lists earlier today, specifically looking at people who voted for Brick but didn't vote for Eddie. I think The Giant Head fits that, but I have to go back to make sure.
Destil: yeah, he does. I have the Brick and Eddie votes at the top of the wave.

Chady (Apr 26):
Oh, there they are. Looks like demonkoala fits that, too. I think vaterite got left off of the Eddie list for some reason.

Nich (Apr 26):
Here's my demonkoala musings now that I'm at home (note: these were written before the bizarro shift toward Bongo today)
Post 1000: "I am fairly suspicious of one individual, but I think I'll save it for day 3, since I really need more evidence." What evidence is he going to be getting between day 2 and 3? On day 3, he accused Brickroad.
Post 1235: "It only helps that you guys were already on my trusted list." demonkoala has a trusted list? Why on earth are Garrison and Calories on it?
Post 1496: Suggests keeping the scanner alive based on Comb Stranger's proposals.
Post 1546: Says the scanner will probably scan Eddie on night 3. demonkoala did not vote for Eddie on day 4, going for Tock first and Bongo second.
Post 1588: Suspected Brickroad on day 3 but didn't accuse him. Now suspects Phantoon but won't accuse him either. Trying to keep his head down?
Post 1713: "I hate to say this but I need to hide my cards a bit longer waiting for developments during this day." What cards does he have exactly? (Whatever they were, they allowed him to vote Bongo Bill to his death.)
The big argument against this theory is that I have demonkoala scanning five people (Brickroad, Garrison, Calories, Eddie, and Phantoon) in three nights. Probably he's just a weird guy.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
The bits about his trusted list were too early for him to have an actual slate of clean scans, esp. because those are unlikely targets. Doesn't necessarily invalidate the rest of them though.

Destil (Apr 27):
Well, let's say he gets a guilty on Brick: Calories had been going after brick more vocally than most. Could be night 1 Garrison, Night 2 Brick. I'll look at Garrison's day one posts and see if anything pops out as 'scan me'.
Post 143 re: the scanner may get his attention... nothing else about day 1 seems worth scanning for to me. Also Nich put forward the same idea more vocally on day one.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
My big issue is: Garrison? Really? Of all the loud, pushy, grandstanding and dangerous people out there, what scanner would have spent an investigation on Garrison?
Only someone whom Garrison publicly suspected or pushed (I don't think Garrison did anything conspicuous enough to warrant an inspection otherwise, but if there's something there I'm glad to hear it out), possibly one that pushed back and then stopped the next day. But I still think it's a big leap to think that Garrison would've been an inspection target.

Destil (Apr 27):
When we discussed it last night I came to the conclusion that as the scanner he's hitting at least Brick, Nich and Merus before coming out as the scanner. Woudln't be opposed to hitting him tonight, myself.
Apr 26
Kayma:
The Giant Head seems to have Vorpal's number. Luckily, he's not that sure of himself... or is at least feigning as such.
Reply
Edit

Phantoon (Apr 27):
The Giant Head seems to have exploded into action. I'm not sure if there's any particular reason for this but his deductive skills are pretty good. He fished that info out of a vast pile of Brick misdirection.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 28):
To be fair as I was reading Brick's posts to prepare a possible case against him I caught that "Why are you ignoring these two people" post too. It jumps out at you pretty strong if you take the time to look for it.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 26):
That was going to come up sooner or later. I wanted to smack Brick for not even saying that I had better fucking participate or he'll hand me my balls or something like that.
I'm not too worried about this in and of itself. I'll have to make some other mistake before it becomes a big deal, I think.

Nich (Apr 26):
By the way, I'm reminded of possibly the best post of the day: 1712, where Calories says: "Alright, I've thought about it more, and Paul and Vorpal's additional musings convinced me further. I officially accuse Eddie. I'm still wary of this - it could be easy for Rogues to push the conversation into lynching him now! - but I'm going with my gut."

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 26):
Calories is one incredible guy.

Spineshark (Apr 26):
I am personally amazed by the amount of assumption on the part of everyone but Eddie that the rogues couldn't possibly be hiding in plain sight. If this game has taught me one thing, it's that almost everyone is eager to overthink everything as long as you give them a reason.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
I consider this my personal strength! Overthinking things I mean.
ALSO MY CURSE

Destil (Apr 27):
Spine: No one has even brought up that my "let's not kill quiet people" arguement basically equivelates to killing loud people. Amazing.

Merus (Apr 26):
See: Umby.

Phantoon (Apr 26):
The nice thing is that no-one seems to have entertained the idea that we could have deliberately killed Brick and so we're off most people's lists. Nich didn't vote for Brick which may be why he's on Eddie's watch list. I'm wondering why DemonKoala seems to have picked up on me. I speak to him over MSN every so often so he knows me better than most, but he does keep implying he's getting information from somewhere. Whether that's what been posted or not is the question.

Merus (Apr 26):
So, there's been talk that we're moving too much in a pack. Let's exploit the town's decision that rustling up the quiet players is a good move, and that auto-lynching the scanner is also a good move, and put pressure on the players we suspect of being the scanner. If we manage to get one of them close to a lynch, they'll reveal themselves, and we'll lose less mafia if we get them tomorrow than if we let them sit around for the next four days and potentially finger all of us.

Nich (Apr 26):
I like this idea and was going to suggest it or something like it myself. Whoever we vote to kill tonight, we can take the remainder and split up. Destil and I shouldn't participate in the exercise since we're already under too much scrutiny, and anyway I've already got ThornGhost in mind as my accusation. But the rest of you, feel free.

Merus (Apr 26):
It also gives us something to do other than go after each other, Nich.

Nich (Apr 26):
Yes, I like that aspect of it too. ;)

Phantoon (Apr 26):
Do we need to come up with some reason why Nich and Destil still aren't dead? The Town and us have managed to wipe out most of the vocal players and it looks a little dubious now.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
I've got one: that for all their noise, they're not actually doing much. Most of their posts are shortish, and beyond Destil's auto-lynch comments, they're not coming up with strategies or brilliant insights or anything. People like CS and Byron (and possibly Eddie) are better targets because they've actually shown some cunning insight, whether it be right or wrong. The risk of this is re-drawing attention to Byron's surety of Mr. J (hope nobody goes back to that/stays on the citizen trail they got off to) or legitimizing CS's (and possibly Eddie's) suspicions of Nich, if we say they're cunning - even if we try to cut it by underestimating their smartness (he sided with Brick and all).

Phantoon (Apr 27):
You know, I'm really glad you're on our side, Paul.

Merus (Apr 26):
We're going to have to. I'd also like it because it gives me cover.

Nich (Apr 26):
Actually, this one's not too hard. If we suggest that the Byron kill was a one-off revenge for killing Brick, we can say they're probably trying to hunt the scanner or do whatever it is they're doing by killing quiet players, which is near enough to the truth to be believable. I don't think anyone thinks I'm the scanner, besides which I've been really bad at swaying the town to my own lynch suggestions, so I'm not seen as a threat.

Destil (Apr 27):
What if Nich claims that the he's still alive is the best evidence so far that Eddie's a standard (rogues are letting him live so he lynches Eddie) and uses that as an excuse to get off of Eddie.
I'm not planning on claiming 'I'm no good at this' or 'people don't listen to me' because I don't want say anything too similar to Brick's defense. In fact I'm not super concerned about people asking why I'm still alive at this point, who threw that at Brick besides Merus?

Nich (Apr 27):
I like this idea. If I'm ever lynched, it means I'll be publicly vouching for Eddie as well.

Merus (Apr 26):
It does mean that we can't hit Calories Man, and I know yesterday we were thinking he might be the scanner.

Nich (Apr 26):
I can't remember my logic for thinking it, but today I decided he couldn't be. There was something he said or did that made me sure he wasn't the scanner. I can look again if you want.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
He was persuaded into accusing Eddie, for one. We're assuming Eddie's a good scan target on some night before, so that could be a tell.
I like how Merus responded to this concern before I even posted it.

Merus (Apr 27):
That's because I'm fuckin' awesome, Paul. Try to keep up ;p

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 28):
For what it's worth, Nich also responded to your response before I posted that as well. I HAVE A LIMITING SCHEDULE OK

Merus (Apr 26):
Was it jumping off Eddie as soon as he posted his accusation? The scanner might well be bandwagonning, and then jumping off as soon as they can, to provide cover for themselves. Much like us, in fact.

Nich (Apr 26):
I think it was that he jumped from Eddie to Umby. But now that I say that, I don't think that was it. Hang on, I'm going to review his posts.
Okay, actually I think it was that post I made fun of him about before. The one where he says "Paul and Vorpal have convinced me to vote Eddie." If he had scanned Eddie and knew he was innocent, and he was trying to fool us into thinking he didn't, then I don't get why it was Destil and I who were on his radar at the end of the day and not Paul and Vorpal. He never mentioned them again even after he (theoretically) said they'd convinced him to accuse someone he (theoretically) knew was innocent. It just doesn't hang together for me.

Phantoon (Apr 26):
It'll be better if we can get it coming from the mouths of one of the Town. Should it all go pear shaped we don't want to be caught harbouring Rogues.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
OK so, possible targets for tomorrow, feel free to edit:
Umby
Eddie if we don't kill him
McDohl
ThornGhost
Loki
Also, any other ideas for who to kill? Tock came to mind as someone who might fuck around with their heads, send them barking up the wrong tree. Don't know if we'd get much more out of it than an Umby frame-up at this rate, though - his older set of wrong accusations seems to have slipped by the wayside.

Destil (Apr 27):
I like leaving Tock alive for now. I think there's good chance he'll string up a standard for us and then getlynched himself in exchange...

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 28):
Agreed, just posting thoughts out loud. I think he's a good candidate to mess with their heads, but he's outspoken, suspicious, and also very wrong - a good combination for us during daylight.

Merus (Apr 27):
Also, do we have any idea for who to use our night-time kill on? My two ideas were Calorie Mate and Eddie, which as discussed are probably bad moves for us.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 28):
Calories could be bad for us, but I think Eddie would be a wash. I'm leaning towards him myself, just... warily.

Nich (Apr 27):
I'd say the Giant Head. I like the risk-analysis above for what it means if the quieter players are the scanner, and anyway even if Giant Head isn't the scanner, he's quiet enough that it looks like it's still part of the supposed rogues "night kill the quiet ones" strategy.

Destil (Apr 27):
Also, TGH goes back one more day in the record and comes across the comb stranger callout on QP and he'll have Vorpal in a bad spot. Best take him out before he puts the last peice of the puzzle in place. Especially if we keep claiming that the rogues are after the scanner at night...
The real problem, of course, is how do we get Vorpal through tomrow if we hit him?
Also, can someone double check my logic there and maybe take a second crack at McDohl and Rai. Not that they've given us much to work with...

Phantoon (Apr 27):
Yeah, Giant Head seems to be on to Vorpal. The worry with whacking him is that people might look closely at what he's put and then he's screwed regardless.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 28):
One of the only things TGH has posted or done of note in this game is to incriminate Vorpal. Byron, even Comb - we could hide motivations pretty well. It would take a much more thorough scrubbing to suggest that Vorpal was innocent after TGH mysteriously bought the farm.

Nich (Apr 27):
People have been oddly reluctant to look at the post histories of night killed players. I don't really know why, but I'm not sure killing TGH is necessarily bad news for Vorpal. If we play our cards right, the town will have bigger fish to fry.

Phantoon (Apr 27):
I don't understand why that is. It's a potential treasure trove and under normal circumstances I'd be bleating on about how the town should look at it.

Destil (Apr 27):
I DID go on about it day 2, and I'm stuck at least giving it a cursory glance every day due to that. I had to make the CS->Brick call myself, no help from the town. No way I can gloss the VE connection without throwing up red flags, though...

Nich (Apr 27):
I think it may be a psychological thing of the town feeling like they have to avenge the innocent they killed themselves and reading too much into their post histories/suspicion lists, not really caring as much about the people that just got "unlucky" to be night killed.

Destil (Apr 27):
Okay, putting it out flatly: I'm going to need to at least look into it during the day as part of my cover. To what degree and what should I emphisise/play down? I don't want to get a lynch against VE rolling, we still have no idea how much the town is going to like the idea. Opinions, especially from Vorpal? I can also ignore it or just comment when someone else brings it up, I don't know that they're paying as much attention as they should to what we're *not* doing...

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 28):
Destil: if you fail to consider the night kill out loud, I'm not convinced it will blow your cover. That's a pretty small detail for someone to pick up on. It might be worth saying something, but I might also put it off as long as possible/plausible to see if a) someone does the work for you or b) it isn't necessary after all.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
Do bring it up. Don't harp on it, but I can put together some cursory defense. I'll just say I dunno what QP was doing and why are you trusting Brick?
This gets a little more dangerous if we kill TGH, but I can say that since the rogues had the night to plan, this could have been deliberate? And then look, now they're framing me again. As long as you bastards generally avoid voting for me I should be ok. :P I dunno, I can't really picture the town going for it what with Umby (lol) and all.
re: splitting up votes. This is pretty much necessary imo. We kinda broke it yesterday but some joker is going to put the pieces together eventually. I'm thinking of targeting Lonki. I've been mentioning them too often and yet not doing anything, so I suppose it's time I did a little work. Might actually be able to get Lonki, since he posts long things and then disappears, except to vote for a standard. Would also go for fbm but there's just not enough on him, and it wouldn't be in character for me.

Destil (Apr 27):
Since it sounds like Vorpal's down with it I nominate The Giant Head for the night kill. I won't bring it up, some smart guy will I'm sure and I'll let you handle yourself there.

Chady (Apr 27):
I second the Giant Head nomination. I really think he or demonkoala is the scanner.

Nich, me and 6 others (Apr 28):
Okay, I want to make one clear post with our targets tomorrow. OTHER ROGUES: Do not reply to this post! It will get confusing! Just edit it with your claim.
Nich - ThornGhost
VorpalEdge - Lonki
Destil - McDohl/Tock/Eddie
Merus - Garrison/kaisel/Umby if required
Mr. J - Eddie
Kayma - Thornghost or Kaisel
chady - Umby?
Paul le Fou - Eddie, Umby, possibly Loki. If we need more variety I'll pick up on kaisel.
Phantoon - Lonki/Eddie

Destil (Apr 27):
Let's not have everyone go their seperate ways, it'll be pretty clear something's up there, too. I say split for 3-4 total targets. Keep your eyes open for targets of oppertinuty during the day but if another rogue starts working one do not join in. Check the vote records first, only if you and that rogue have less than two votes in common. The Eddie/Brick crowd especially needs to be careful.
May want to mitigate some risk of people noticing we're splitting up by keeping one or two people togeather intentially, too.
I'm begining to lack a good conviction / excuse for McDohl since in character I'm no longer assuming Eddie guilty... may just keep on him because I didn't like his defense yesterday (it did suck) but that well's pretty dry too. I'll nudge the Umby conversation if anything, I think I can play Garrison pretty well...

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
We should definitely keep a couple people on Umby, but only a couple. The way the town's going, we want them to lynch him, not us.

Kayma (Apr 27):
I had been going after Thornghost, but I have the feeling that, depending how the early day plays out, I might want to go after Umby.

Destil (Apr 27):
Man, everyone wants onto the Umby train. I'll scope out the thread when I get home tonight for a new target for myself. Open to suggestions.

Nich (Apr 27):
Yeah... be careful of this, guys. Our last two attempts to grab the low-hanging fruit (Byron on day 11 and Eddie yesterday) backfired pretty badly. Umby seems inviting, but I wouldn't put more than one of us on it. Let the town do the work if it's going to be done so we can make the case for those who need more of a case made.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 28):
Umby is easy to go after without actually going after, too. Whomever I end up on, I intend to at least make a post calling Umby out for basically being stupid and/or useless. I'll stop short of calling it a sloppy mafia game and let a citizen do that for me (again).

Merus (Apr 27):
Remember also that one or two of us can give Eddie something to do, and that we benefit if we manage to shake loose the scanner. The town's paranoid. So long as we don't give them a reason to lynch us, they'll probably lynch anyone - look at Bongo Bill, who died in a few hours without our intervention.
Forgot the point! The point is: don't be afraid to be the only person going for a target. With enough elbow grease, we can raise suspicions about anyone, and so long as you don't push when the town's told you they don't see it, you'll likely get away with it. After all, you're just being honest and open and discussing things!

Destil (Apr 27):
Man, to see the look on Bongo Bill's face when he learns Kamaya was also guilty... I honestly can not believe how well that one worked out for us. One day he's my first pick for a night kill and the next he's summarily hanged with almost no help on our part without even casting doubt on anyone.
I'm pretty tapped out on Eddie. But if he goes back to being stupid I'll be there... I *almost* hope he doesn't.

Kayma (Apr 27):
Oh yes... I cannot wait for that either :)

Chady (Apr 27):
Heads up: I was rereading the thread today, and I noticed that I made a pretty significant logical switch on the quiet players issue... on day 10, I came out supporting Lonki's version of "get the quiet players talking," and then yesterday I started poking holes in Brickroad's version of the same plan. I'm trying to refine my "argument," but either way as soon as someone runs a dossier on me I am quite possibly a goner.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 28):
Not a big deal - remember that one was before Brick was known mafia, and one was after. People made some convincing arguments against Eddie why even if it looked like a good plan it can't have been in its execution because Brick was mafia. If someone actually does mention it - I doubt it because you haven't drawn much attention yet and there's probably bigger fish to fry in others' minds - use one of those and say that those posts changed your mind.
Edit: I should really read the next post before responding to one so long after the fact. NIIIIIICH

Nich (Apr 27):
Just say you changed your mind about it when Brick turned out to be a rogue. It'll drive Eddie up a tree, but apart from that, not many people would blame you.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
Actually, I might have a problem with killing Giant Head. If we kill him, it's because we think he's the scanner -- that's our narrative. So... he scanned me? I don't know if I could get away from suspicion that easily after all.

Kayma (Apr 27):
That's true. We can always argue that the rogues offed TGH to incriminate you on purpose, though. If we legitimately thought he was the scanner, acceptable risk. As of now, I don't know...

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 28):
We don't want to push the Comb Stranger effect too hard. Especially if we end up wanting to ice Eddie tomorrow (which we very well might). It's going to be a hard sell if we need to sell it, and doing it twice will likely be right out.

Nich (Apr 28):
Actually, you're right, but pushing the CS effect hard today could prove beneficial tomorrow if we set up a civilian to be killed with tomorrow's night kill. They'll try to argue it's a CS effect setup too, but it might not wash the second time, which we may be able to use.
(The beauty of being a rogue is that if you're careful you can use anything against anyone. Poor McDohl is right.)

Nich (Apr 27):
No offense, Vorpal, but if we get the scanner, that's worth losing one guy to me. The alternative could be much worse. If you don't think he's the scanner, we don't have to hit him, but...
We could always go for the alternative narratives of "they're hitting the players we'll learn the least from" / "they're hitting players whose posts incriminate standards."

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
Hmm. I might be panicking, but... I dunno. I'll think about it.

Kayma (Apr 27):
Hehe, come on. If I'M still in this game, I don't think any of us will ever bite the dust.
Well, you know. Except Brick.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
Yeah, I guess you guys are right. I normally don't have much respect for the standards, why did I suddenly get it now? >_> I'll go with it.
I'm also looking through TGH's posts now, for evidence of scanner-ism.

Nich (Apr 27):
Shouldn't take long. He only has like 30 posts.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 27):
Alright, I'm getting the impression that he just really likes digging around in old posts. Take #1670 (we post way too much, wtf 1670): he dug around... but ended up suspecting, and later accusing Bongo Bill. He hadn't scanned Bill, and yet still did the work. I'm guessing that he isn't the scanner, but he is dangerous in his own right.

Phantoon (Apr 27):
Or could it be that he did scan someone but accused someone else? He may not want to draw unnecessary attention by always being right and also to have maximum impact when he comes out. I'm fairly certain Brick was accusing people right and left in Game 1 without ever scanning them. I should do, I was one of them.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 28):
Brick didn't accuse ANYONE once he was the scanner, and I can't remember his accusing anyone independently even before that. I remember going after him specifically for NOT accusing or even suspecting anyone publicly.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 28):
That's a possibility of course, but I meant that none of his behavior requires him to be the scanner to be explained. Especially if you look at his voting record above, where he's voted for people who weren't on the table until the day of, it's clear that we're considering him for a kill because of his instincts, and not because he's the scanner (which he may or may not be, but it's almost beside the point).

Nich (Apr 27):
Let's go for Rai, then. Rai barely posts at all. With him, people might actually buy the "night killing people who give no information" narrative. He posted literally once during all of day 3, the big Brick day.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 28):
Do you think Rai is the scanner, or are you trying to be a dick to standards?

Phantoon (Apr 27):
I think we have to be careful not to underestimate who's left. We're still a long way from winning and we do need to neutralise our enemies somehow. I can't see Giant Head swinging and so I'd personally still be after killing him. We need to be ahead before the scanner comes out to deal with worst case scenarios. What if the scanner's got very lucky and hit more than two of us, for instance? We need smart people dead.
The people who are left will of course get more and more suspicions against us purely because they're picking from a smaller pool.

Nich (Apr 27):
We're not as far as you may think. If the scanner doesn't come out tomorrow and we can get one of the geniuses who lynched Bongo killed tomorrow during day 101, then by my reckoning we only have day 110 to go. If the scanner doesn't come out then, it's too late--we'll probably win on day 111.

Chady (Apr 28):
Three more standard lynches during the day is all it will take, even if we lose some rogues. It would be awesome if the scanner auto-lynch won us the game.

Destil (Apr 28):
Yeah, it's pretty great! If we hit the scanner I doubt they can do it, and if the scanner comes out we only need two more innocents. Not bad for us at all.

Kayma (Apr 28):
If we win the game due to autolynch, I might actually buy some champagne.

Nich (Apr 28):
Yeah, that's what I meant. If we lynch standards today and tomorrow, the scanner coming forward wins us the game. I want this to happen so much, you don't even know.

Phantoon (Apr 27):
I have a feeling that the scanner won't wait any longer now - standards are dropping like flies and we have to assume that we'll lose a few of us.

Nich (Apr 27):
In that case, we don't have a choice tonight but to hit whoever we most believe to be the scanner, because otherwise it could be catastrophic. If Vorpal doesn't think it's TGH, I say we should try someone else.
(Man, wouldn't it be funny if the scanner had already been lynched?)

Phantoon (Apr 27):
Yes. Yes it would. Although the scanner would just come out if it looked like they were going to die.
I'm beginning to think that looking for the scanner is a mug's game. He/she/it could be playing any number of different games. I'd rather hit a known threat, but that's just me.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 28):
I've been saying that for days!

Destil (Apr 28):
I'm entirely for this at this point. Also note my numbers above are following Paul's suggestion that we can not hit the scanner unless we get lucky, so let's try and hit the player who, if they are the scanner, we believe would damage us the most. But I limited myself to quiet players because that's who I wanted to kill from the start...

Nich (Apr 27):
See, if I was the scanner, and I didn't have any guilty names (as well they might not have on the first couple days) I wouldn't bother claiming. Better for the rogues to never know they're safe than to get auto-lynched to no benefit whatsoever.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (Apr 28):
Were there any lynches so far that might have been tactically smart enough to go that route? Bongo possibly?

Destil (Apr 28):
Metagame time: Could not be PapillonReel because he wouldn't have been allowed to sub back in.
Bongo: Possibly, I don't buy that he'd curl up and die like that if he were.
So no, I don't think so.

Spineshark (Apr 28):
Shit. I didn't even think of that. You're right, obviously.

Destil (Apr 28):
It's cool. He'd be sabotaging the game on par with SN if he was. No suprise there.

Merus (Apr 28):
I buy that Bongo might not have had the time to defend himself.

Merus (Apr 28):
Okay, we're running out of time, let's have a quick whip-around for our night kill.
Considering that we want to sell the narrative that we're hitting people who put forward suspicions, and we want to hit threats, I'm inclined towards demonkoala. I don't see any evidence of them overthinking, which makes people like Eddie, Tock or Garrison an asset, and he's put forward the appearance of having his head on straight. Obviously, we want hysterics. If he is the scanner, his reveal will hurt; if he isn't, his careful playstyle will make it harder for us.
Also there doesn't appear to be any helpful options to protect fellow rogues.

Destil (Apr 28):
My only reason to possibly want to leave him alive is because he's been barking up the wrong tree so far, re-reading.
At the same time, it may make it easier to frame Tock today or tommrow. Sure, let's do it!
Official vote: demonkoala

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (Apr 28):
I'm not going to be able to get a vote in later today, so I'll take the safe choice and vote for demonkoala now, with the caveat that I don't mind being overridden.

Nich (Apr 28):
Merus: Bongo had time. I was keeping an eye on the "Who's Online" box in the run-up to Bongo's death, and I saw him reading the thread an hour before day ended. Then he signed off. I don't know why he didn't post, but it seemed deliberate to me.
Anyway, sure, why not. I'll throw in for demonkoala.

Mr. J (Apr 28):
I've been out of the loop for a bit, but I agree with demonkoala. He strikes me as playing the game a little too quietly.

Chady (Apr 28):
demonkoala was my second choice, so that works for me.

Phantoon (Apr 28):
I'm going to have to go demonkoala. The Giant Head will be a dangerous play and he's done nothing other than dig up some stuff on Vorpal. The only rogue that demonkoala is potentially slightly dangerous for is me, and I think I can handle it as he never accused me of anything. There's a semi decent chance he's the scanner and I think he's dangerous enough that killing him won't be a waste.

Phantoon (Apr 28):
Actually, it also seems to reinforce the "killing the quieter ones" pattern we've set so far. Which hopefully won't put Nich and Destil under more pressure.

Phantoon (Apr 28):
Spineshark, would it be possible to update the first post? It's a bit out of date.

Spineshark (Apr 28):
Done.

Phantoon (Apr 28):
Thank you.

Kayma (Apr 28):
You guys have my blessings for demonkoala. A pretty safe choice, I think.

Destil
05-11-2010, 09:12 PM
Spineshark (May 1):
It's Night 101, and I wish I could make you guys work for it now. Oh well. Not my fault or my problem.

Destil (May 1):
Can we get a count on the Umby vote added to the last post, please?

Nich (May 1):
Well done, gents! Another standard down.

Merus (May 1):
Yep, at this point we can sit back and drink pina coladas while the town double-think themselves into oblivion. By my count, we have two more day cycles until we win.
There's only three things really worth discussion;
Who we want to kill tonight, obviously
Managing any future scanner reveals, assuming we haven't already killed them during the day
This thing I want to do with the auto-lynch, which I should describe in more detail.
So, basically, I want to win by auto-lynching the scanner. Two days from now, someone has to put out the idea that maybe we should hear from the scanner because we've been killing too many innocents, auto-lynch them, then reveal ourselves as having won and have fun playing rampant AIs. The only risk is that someone might work out that this is our plan, and lynch whoever puts it forward.

Nich (May 1):
By the way, I wanted to share an idea I had in case we do hit the scanner tonight, or the scanner for whatever reason doesn't reveal on either of the next two days.
If we get an innocent lynched tomorrow, and if the scanner doesn't reveal the following day either, I want to close out the game with one good solid bloc vote. The rules work for us in that the player with a majority vote will be lynched 24 hours after his first accusation. So we wait for whichever innocent player is the first to be accused by the town and start it going. We don't need much support, only a couple innocent votes. By the time the town realizes what's happening, if they realize, it'll be too late.

Merus (May 1):
I like this idea, as well. We've done an excellent job of hiding - the only person who has any kind of suspicion is Nich - and I like the idea of cashing it in.

Phantoon (May 3):
My slight worry is that Nich has attracted some attention today. It'd be nice to only lose one Rogue the whole game.

Merus (May 3):
I was attracting attention at the start of the game, too. I don't think any of Nich's attention is particularly serious; we can defend him for one more day, and by that point it simply won't matter.

Destil (May 1):
I love it. I was thinking the same thing. Hell, will they even notice. We'll only need one or two votes from standards.

Nich (May 1):
What I like about my suspicion is that no one even has a clear idea of why they suspect me. I saw three people include me last on their lists today, saying "Nich, but I dunno why."

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 1):
Some even turned around and took you off. It was pretty swell!

Nich (May 1):
That would be excellent if it happened that way, and I hope it does, but I'd like to address all three points simultaneously:
We're in a better position than you may even realize. I'm actually not even sure we SHOULD try to hit the scanner anymore, because with the scanner alive, we don't need to lynch two innocents, we only need one. If that happens tomorrow without a scanner reveal, great.
But if it doesn't, and the scanner reveals... then I did a bit of math earlier, and going forward with the auto-lynch plan tomorrow in the (likely, I think) event of a reveal means after the auto-lynch is done and the named rogues are taken care of, the town cannot miss again. Ever. And what do you think the odds of THAT happening are?

Merus (May 1):
I wonder about that math, because it was my impression that every hit the town makes allows them an extra whiff.

Nich (May 1):
Nah, I'll share the math with you.
Tomorrow, there will be 9 of us and 13 standards left alive after we do our night kill tonight.
Let's say the scanner reveals himself tomorrow and we auto-lynch. After the night 6 kill, we go into day 7 with 9 rogues and 11 standards. For argument's sake, let's say the scanner reveals 3 rogue names. Here's how it works out:
Day 8: 8 rogues left, 10 citizens left
Day 9: 7 rogues left, 9 citizens left
Day 10: 6 rogues left, 8 citizens left.
You can adjust that for however many rogues actually are named; whether it's as few as 1 or as many as 4, it doesn't matter. Trading 1-for-1 hits after the auto-lynch doesn't really buy them any time at all; they're still dead the very next time they lynch a standard. Let's say this happens on day 10 and we go into night 10 with 6 rogues and 7 citizens. Obviously, we night kill a citizen and then win.

Chady (May 1):
The math works out great. We just need two more standard lynches, and one of those is probably going to be the scanner. They're all too eager to kill each other, and it fills me with sadistic glee.

Phantoon (May 3):
Assuming of course that the Scanner is still going. It's slightly possible that he/she's been lynched already, albeit highly unlikely.

Destil (May 1):
In my opinion we should try and hit the scanner one last time tonight UNLESS we can get a really good lynch case by framing someone. Tommorow we kill someone to scare the scanner into revealing themseleves, instead.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (May 1):
Speaking of which, I was thinking about writing a post summarizing how all of the citizen lynches thus far have occured. Basically, look for the rogues in the shadows, not the rogues attempting to ineptly defend Eddie. And then point at some random dude whose name I'd pull from a ThornGhost-esque list.

Destil (May 1):
My plan for tommorow: Lynch Tock. His 'gambit' to move his vote got us Umby and Bongo. I'm going to say "Well played, Tock. Now we see why you really moved to Kamya"
Also, I'll most likely mention Nich in the accusation, just to be complete. But Nich isn't the one who pointed out two standards after his switch that it 'caught'. And, anyway, I'd almost have to say "But nich is my boss and tells me who to kill at night" before anyone suspects him at this rate.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 1):
Works for me. I just get jumpy when he's, you know, spot-on catching rogues.

Destil (May 1):
kaisel hit Nich right on the nose too. But he let us bully him out of it.
They're both correct but impotent, I think death is more vindication than anything else we can do. Let 'em live.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 1):
Whomever we hit, we may be able to sell on a "hunting the scanner" line. Like if we hit Tock or Garrison, who've largely had bad suspicions, and then suggest that he was possibly the scanner with his ideas and get them to follow that. Risky if we push too hard, and possibly more work than we need to do to get them to lynch another innocent.

Nich (May 1):
I'm behind this plan, but I'll want us to run a digest on whoever we go with so we can sure the most visible/obvious results of such a suggestion aren't us.

Destil (May 1):
Do they even care? Look at friggin lokni! They're just not digging into these night kills at all, they're too scared of double talk.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 1):
If we give them a push in the right direction we might be able to confuse them just enough to follow a lead that way. Most likely if they've suspected someone like kaisel whom others have already suspected/accused. Add to his already present case "this person might have been inspector/smart and they suspected kaisel too..."

Nich (May 1):
I've already started down this line of thought with one of my responses to Loki today. I might be able to follow up on it tomorrow since the seeds are there.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (May 1):
If we kill Loki tonight, we could use his 'defense' of Umby towards that. I remember his suspicion list being good for us, but I can't recall exactly who was on it.

Nich (May 1):
We could also just try using Umby's suspicion list. It's mostly wrong except for chady, and chady's the last name on it. ThornGhost and Loki are both on it, too.

Chady (May 1):
Honestly, the only reason my name is even on his list is because he was flailing about, looking for targets, which he did all game long.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 1):
I like Umby's suspicion list, but he's also cemented in people's minds as a terrible player. I don't think anyone will be anxious to start accusing his peronsal suspects.

Nich (May 1):
Yeah, good point. Okay, I'm looking at the list of post counts now... The quieter players (that aren't us) are fanboymaster, Rai, McDohl, Giant Head, and vaterite. Want to split up digests to see which of them has the worst inclinations? I'll take fanboy and Rai since they're both low down.
Rai: Posts very infrequently and never raises suspicion of anyone without also accusing them. Has so far accused Nodal, Mr. J, Kayma, Bongo, Kaisel, and Umby. As Nodal, Bongo, and Umby were all innocent, that looks good for the two rogues if we intend to draw attention to the voting record for that reason, but bad if we hope the town will be lynching kaisel tomorrow.
fanboymaster: Also doesn't post much; he only made two posts during day 5. Talks nearly every day about "maybe we should look at [night killed player]'s posts" and then never does. Has so far accused Nodal, ThornGhost, Kayma, and Bongo Bill, with no accusation made (or suspicion raised) yesterday. Defended Brickroad on day 3. Suspected Calories and Loki without accusing. Pros: the townspeople are likely to be reluctant to draw information from his checkered post history or to draw the wrong information. Cons: The first of Brickroad's "lynch the quiet ones" targets to die, which may ease the pressure on Loki should we want to have him lynched.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 1):
Giant Head took vorpal and hasn't done much else, I know that off the top of my head. And his vorpal thing was the only one people will remember.
If no one's done mcDohl by the time I finish breakfast I'll poke through his stuff. NEVERMIND

Nich (May 1):
Haha, never mind breakfast, they were doing McDohl before you finished that SENTENCE.

Destil (May 1):
Looking at McDohl:
Day 1: Bandwagon.
Day 2: Mabye onto Mr J (688). Nothing ever comes of that that I recall.
Never reveal the innocent plan (848)
Accuses Tock (math error?) (897)
Accuse Kamya (1152) based on missing the big votes.
Going after kaisel before it's fasionable (though he was accused) (1647)
Accuses Eddie day 4 (1729)
mentioned that he's more suspect of perfect evil batting average (1771)
Cross-references voting on Bongo and not-brickroad (1871).
Thinks eddie's the virus (1924)
Votes:
Nodal, (?? He's not even listed day 2. Tock and then retratced I think?), Kamya, Eddie, Eddie.
Pros: They won't learn much from it. He seems to be basing his speculation on past votes, but he's sticking with Eddie as his target for the last two days. His deductive skills aren't terrible (was more right than Thorn on the evil batting average), but he seems unable himself of getting the correct idea from his decent deductions, may be a problem if someone else builds on his ideas (I was terrified when I first saw 1871 until I got a better look. That's as close as anyone's gotten to nailing us on a whole IMHO).
Cons: If he's the scanner he's playing really dumb to cover it (he should know Eddie by now and his 'don't give innocents' plan is horrid and may help us if he is).

Nich (May 1):
Like I said above, you never know when they're going to start caring. If that time is tomorrow, I don't want them suddenly thinking the suspicions and accusations of the night kill are real important on the night we hit, say, Eddie.

Chady (May 1):
I think the town is finally going to sack up and grill some quiet players tomorrow. So it may be in our best interests not to hit a quiet player tonight. Me, Kayma and Paul (and possibly Vorpal) would probably all fall into the "quiet" category, so maybe we keep that pool as large as possible.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 1):
If we do indeed kill a quiet, would they be more or less likely to investigate the rest of us? It's possible they're as worried about digging up the scanner as we are.

Destil (May 1):
At this point they may want to dig up the scanner. How much of the flak that kaisel got for sticking with brick's plan was from us and how much was from the town?

Chady (May 1):
It could be kind of a moot point. Let's say they go after a quiet tomorrow and manage to hit one of us. They would probably go after another one the following day, which has a good chance of giving us one of our two needed standard lynches.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 1):
If they want the scanner, all they have to do is ask. Make a good case for "we need this today" and he'll show up.

Merus (May 2):
We probably should also put in some votes for who we're going to night kill. My vote's for fanboymaster: the only good reason not to kill him is that it makes it harder to lynch Loki if the argument goes that way, but we have like four or five lynchable people already, far more than we'll need. The other quiet players have stronger disadvantages.

Nich (May 2):
Agreed. I thought briefly about voting for McDohl to make Eddie look foolish, but on balance I'd rather not draw attention to Eddie's three suspicion candidates at all. I vote fanboymaster.
Also, although I don't think anyone is seriously considering it, I'm going to cast a preemptive dissenting vote for Eddie. We shouldn't night kill him tonight, he's much more valuable to us alive tomorrow.

Kayma (May 2):
I think fanboymaster or rai would be optimal targets. So, yeah, I vote fanboymaster. Because why not?

Destil (May 2):
fanboymaster is fine. They'll never ever know he's gone.
Likewise dissenting on Eddie. I still think he's most valuable to us as a night kill tommrow to out the scanner.

Merus (May 2):
I agree on Eddie, I think it's hilarious to just kill him after all the attention and speculation there's been around him, and by that point it just won't matter.

Chady (May 2):
fanboymaster works for me. He's one of the few players we'd never be able to get lynched during the day, due to Brickroad's accusation.

Mr. J (May 2):
I disagree, but it doesn't really matter who we kill at this point. I'll vote for Fanboymaster

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 2):
Probably the last person I'd go for, but you guys seem to have an actual reason for doing so, so... sure?
Also posting the official reminder that he was my official "fuck it, it's probably fanboymaster" scanner theory from way back when. JUST IN CASE.

Nich (May 2):
Those fools at the institute! You'll show them all! ALL!

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (May 3):
No problems with fanboymaster here.

Phantoon (May 3):
Let's kill Fanboymaster then. No objections here.

Spineshark (May 3):
fanboymaster is, oddly enough, not the scanner either. Somebody want to help me out with flavor text on this one?

Destil (May 3):
Eh. Let's just bury him alive.

Destil
05-11-2010, 09:13 PM
Spineshark (May 6):
Night 110: If The Giant Head comes up with one more hilarious portmanteau I'm calling the game in his favor.

Destil (May 6):
Well... if nothing else I killed vaterite from the looks of it. Go me.
How does that change our numbers now? I think since we started with an odd count we don't actually win any earlier, right?

Nich (May 6):
Yeah, nothing changes. The standards still need to whiff again, or else lose someone through inactivity, which would be the lamest way to win ever.
Personally, I'm hoping Merus gets his wish and we win tomorrow on an auto-lynch in style.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 7):
That would be the best way, no doubt.

Destil (May 6):
I agree. Let's do everything in our power to make that happen tommorow without giving anything extra away. No need to make the game longer if we can avoid it.

Chady (May 7):
I actually sent a PM to shinespark early in the day when I noticed vaterite had not posted. But like Nich said, it doesn't really matter.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (May 6):
I really want to blame ThornGhost for making shit up, but I guess my current level of suspicion is all my fault, huh.
At least we're winning tomorrow. It should probably be someone other than me who calls for the scanner reveal.

Destil (May 6):
Do we just want to phone tonight in? I've put a lot of thought into it, but at this point I really can't see us losing... may take a day or three if something goes terribly wrong, but I don't see them winning.

Destil (May 6):
I don't know that any of us should call for the scanner. If you were scanned, even if the odds were low, then they'll know it's a trap. The only person I'd be willing to put money on being totally in the clear is Paul... and I want people to forget Paul exists, as most clearly have.
Also, I think the scanner may be f`ing EDDIE.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 7):
It took until page 65 for someone to even suggest doing a digest on me - which was never done or otherwise followed up on. I got a quote in Tock's pile-up as well, that no one will notice. The only times I've even been mentioned in this thread were when Brick was talking about my M2E game. I like to think that staying exactly as quiet as I have while rnot drawing any attention for being a "quiet player" takes a certain amount of finesse!
No, no, don't correct me. Let me live my dream. (Watch me get called out and lynched tomorrow.)
I could have been scanned if the scanner scanned Eddie and noticed I've been going after him pretty hard all along. Or if Eddie himself is the scanner and noticed the same thing.

Phantoon (May 7):
I've been under suspicion twice but no-one's done a digest on me. My only concern is I said I was pro-lynch on Day 1 to Eddie and having checked I only implied it. We may get through another day without losing anyone, hopefully, but I'm surprised the scanner hasn't popped up yet.

Destil (May 6):
I left my Eddie is the scanner text dump at work. It comes down to this:
A) So set on lynching the scanner he'll let himself be lynched as suspicious to make it happen. Has always had a very close eye on the thread near the end of the day, last second reveal may be the idea.
B) Mentioned that buddying up with a guilty guy was a good plan at one point for a standard.
C) Actually bothered to come up with a plan to make himself less virus desirable.
D) Has been looking to martyr himself to get me killed all game.
Loki and McDohl both throw that off a bit, but I'm starting to think it really could be him.

Chady (May 7):
I was actually thinking this today, though it's probably incorrect. If Eddie was the scanner, he could set up a auto-lynch the scanner strategy, and then just not come forward until the last possible minute, just like what he posted a couple of days ago. In addition, while making his Destil accusation, he divided all of the players into three categories: those for auto-lynch the scanner, those against auto-lynch the scanner, and those who suggested that the scanner lay low and try to influence the game without coming forward. I thought that last category was a bit suspect, since I didn't remember anybody actually advocating that strategy in a loud way.
Incidentally, I'm kind of for leaving Eddie alive, since it adds slightly more style points to the rogue victory to have him fruitlessly accusing Destil until the very end. But that's just me.

Merus (May 7):
I was thinking the same thing. His actions only really make sense if he's the scanner. (This is why I spent so much time getting people to back off Eddie when trying to save Destil. If he revealed before the last day, it'd be pretty bad for us.)

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (May 6):
If he's the scanner, why would he be looking to martyr himself? He'd just post it and be done with it.

Destil (May 6):
Because he's paranoid that someone will get the town to let the scanner live. And that doing so is absolutely the wrong move.
Even on day two, with only 5 rogues in the game he may have thought trading for one of them was fine. And I honestly think that he wasn't expecting the robo plan to be received so poorly.
It's just a theory, anyway...

Merus (May 7):
I believe his strategy is that he wants everyone to know that he was the scanner and to kill the rogues on his list. He doesn't want people to debate whether or not he's legit, because he knows he can't win that fight because he is a dum. I think everything flows from that.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (May 6):
My money's on Loki, personally. Eddie's just brought himself too close to death for me to really go for it. Without Pappy on day 2 his career as scanner would have been cut abruptly.
Of course, given the other stuff standards have been pulling this game, it's not inconceivable, but...

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (May 6):
That's a good enough reason for killing Eddie for me. I'd vote now except this isn't the best idea as a general principle.

Destil (May 6):
Also, I'm going to say this now, if anyone actually puts two and two together on the Kamya/.Brick vote, that's the only way the standards could even possibly begin to get back into the game. I can't believe Calories double talked himself out of it, if he had thought the implications through...
If it has to happen, and it shouldn't, but if I'm not around for it: you should kill Kamya yourselves. It's a HUGE tempo loss so don't do it lightly, but as long as no one knows how day 3 went down for real we're going to win this.

Kayma (May 6):
Destil... you've spelled my name 8 different ways this game :)
I agree; I was floored when Calories man backpedaled on me, good lord. But yeah, if it seems prudent to do so, by all means kill me. Honestly though, I don't see it coming to that.

Destil (May 8):
Sorry, dude.

Kayma (May 8):
No worries.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (May 6):
Yeah, realizing that there were two rogues up for the vote on day 3 would be the worst thing possible. I was really worried Bongo would continue calling for a Kayma lynch on 4, but thankfully he just curled up into a ball.

Destil (May 6):
I was terrified of what Bongo would become if he ever learned Kamya was a rogue. Terrifed. He had us day 3.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (May 6):
As it stands, if me or Destil get lynched it could go that way, once people realized we also voted for Brick. I'd think pretty hard about clamping down on that if it happens, but tomorow is almost certainly scanner day, so it probably won't come up.

Destil (May 6):
I think we're fine there. No one will think that 6 rogues voted for lynching Brick unless Kamya is a known rogue. That's why it's so important to do it yourselves if it starts to look like it may happen.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (May 6):
Yeah, but the vote was damned close. Two rogues would have thrown it the other way. It's going to be on their mind that, if one was comfortable voting Brick early...

Destil (May 6):
Well, my death should cement the auto-lynch at least. You guys win right there if I go down.

Nich (May 6):
Cementing the auto-lynch is the least of our problems, I think. The only issue is getting the scanner to reveal without actually asking him to. I don't think any of us should, because we don't know who's been scanned, and anyone he knows to be a rogue asking is a big flashing warning sign.
I think we should probably let the town ask. I bet someone will, and our response can be to subtly hint that we don't think the time has come yet. THAT might be enough to convince him we don't want it to happen.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 7):
An argument I've come up with for the scanner is one of relatable desperation: "I'm tired of lynching innocents. We need some guilties here and he's bound to have some for us." Not as a call, but as "I would be open to seeing the scanner come out."

Nich (May 7):
I would be okay with you making that argument. I think you're pretty low on the list of people likely to have been scanned.
(One reason for my antics today and blatant hypocrisy was to make myself very high on the list to be scanned, if for whatever reason the scanner hasn't already done so. I figure the more guilty names they have, the more willing they will be to come forward.)

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (May 6):
Only if he's scanned us. If he hasn't, he might take it seriously. I was thinking of letting a standard start it off, and saying something like "well, it has to be soon or, because of the auto-lynch, it'll be never".

Nich (May 6):
Yeah, I'm not sure what the best way to handle it is. Maybe we should just let it happen and focus our efforts on a plan B? Plan A, after all, takes care of itself.
Actually, you know what I'm gonna do if anyone brings up the scanner, is quote Eddie and say "we have to forget the scanner exists and play the game as if he wasn't there."

Phantoon (May 6):
I'd ignore the scanner. We're desperately close to winning and the scanner coming out or not won't change that. We just have to not die. My worry is that Nich, Merus and VorpalEdge have been named by ThornGhost. Still, the Town has been awful about using suspicion lists but we don't want them to start now.

Nich (May 7):
Nobody but me has cared about the suspicion lists or used them in an accusation AT ALL and when I did it, it was to kill ThornGhost. Tee hee.

Spineshark (May 6):
I will be displeased if you don't win tomorrow. I'm kind of exhausted of this game myself.

Destil (May 6):
No kidding. It's been trying, and without the rush of always having to watch my back thanks to you fine people being around it gets kinda dull at times.
Okay. Plan A: I'm continuing to call for Tock to be lynched tommorow. Let's do one last list.

Me, Nich and Chady (May 7):
Phantoon:
Chady: whoever we decide to bandwagon. Maybe Kaisel.
Kayma:
Mr. J:
Nich: Calorie Mate
Merus:
Destil: Tock
paul:
vorpaledge:

Destil (May 6):
Also, we have nine of the town's twenty votes at this point; the majority is ten. I wouldn't recommend trying to force a majority early in the day - time zone differences would be a problem for us there, but later on, I think we can pretty much latch on to whoever has the most votes as long as we do so in a disorderly fashion.
And I'm out for the night.

Nich (May 7):
Minor point of order: with vaterite dead, once we night kill Eddie, we will have nine of the town's nineteen votes, making it even easier for us to gang up.

Nich (May 7):
What I'd consider doing instead (if we kill the scanner or the scanner for whatever reason doesn't reveal) is keep up a tiny plurality on someone. We don't need to all go as a bloc on one target and slam them. We just have to ensure that the vote for a rogue never climbs higher than the vote for a standard.

Mr. J (May 6):
We should be ready to use our votes to get an immediate lynch on someone. If someone is past their 24-hr mark and they only need 2-3 more for a majority how does everyone feel about going for the lynch?
Also, if we get an innocent lynch we should have the speak-easy in the actual thread tomorrow night.

Phantoon (May 6):
The forum thread made me laugh this morning, that's for sure.
If we do manage to win tomorrow then we should definitely do the speakeasy in the thread without any explanation or warning. That will be cool.

Nich (May 7):
Haha, yeah, that'd be awesome.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 7):
I agree with Phantoon's plan! But I also agree with just coming out the next morning and dogpiling some chosen innocent out of left field, railroading into a majority, and letting them stew in defeat when it's called at the end of the day.

Nich (May 7):
The only thing about it is that the game will just end right there, because vaterite is dead. So once the last civilian is lynched, we can all just crow about it immediately--we don't even have to plan anyone's death or anything.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 7):
Oh, I was considering it more of like a humorous style. It would be the comedy epilogue to the game we've already won, whether we do it in day or public speakeasy or what.

Nich (May 7):
By the way, just as a formality: I vote to kill Eddie.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 7):
I vote to kill Eddie.

Merus (May 7):
I don't really want to kill Eddie because he's the one player I think it's going to be the easiest to kill: essentially, explain why auto-lynch is bad, and therefore he must be mafia. I kind of want to kill Calories, because even though he's easy to manipulate he's going to be the first one to notice the railroading.

Destil (May 7):
That is a good point. If Eddie is the scanner he may actually 'let' people lynch him, too. And he's the one target Phantoon, Merus and Paul can all gang up on without raising any eyebrows. I can go for him too without raising too much suspicion. Have any standards voted for him recently?
Yes, that's our real choice tonight, hopefully the last one in the game. We kill someone else because Eddie is the best option for us to all kill at once, or we kill Eddie and hope that triggers the scanner reveal. Since the scanner hasn't been playing logically from any persepctive unless it's Eddie (his actions do have a little consistancy if you look at him in that light), I'd prefer not to rely on our ability to force the scanner out. Encourage it with a very light touch, but don't rely on it happening.

Destil (May 7):
So who do we think would most likely trigger the scanner outing himself aside from Eddie? Calories sounds good as no one suspects him, though he could be useful for getting people to vote for either Kayma to split the vote between several rogues or kaisel who would be our best bet for a standard target after Eddie I think. My other possible choice would be The Giant Head, thought that would put Nich in a bad spot.

Kayma (May 7):
I like the idea of killing Calorie Mate tonight and letting Eddie live again. I think an exasperated Eddie to be a very satisfying ending.

Nich (May 7):
I guess if we feel that strongly about Eddie being the scanner (something I said a while back) then we could let him live, but you realize this also means if we want to win on the auto-lynch, we have to try to get him lynched tomorrow if he's playing the way you all say he is. He's not going to come forward on his own accord unless he's on the verge of being lynched, and even then, it's not really an "auto" lynch. I'm still in favor of killing him tonight, personally. He and ThornGhost are the two most clued-in people on who the rogues are, and TG died yesterday. If we eliminate Eddie tonight, the town has have only their voting records and suspicion lists to go on; suspicion lists look sketchy now because that's how TG died, and they've really never cared about night kills.
If we don't kill Eddie tonight, we have to go for him tomorrow. But if we do, I'm gonna go for Calories at the start of the day on the theory that my "counterintuitive plan" is worth trying for real now that we whiffed again on someone suspicious-looking. (It'll help that Calories refused to accuse ThornGhost.) If those of you who didn't pile on TG with me today (chady, Destil, Mr. J, Phantoon) want to "come around" to that way of thinking, that'll at least give us the beginnings of a majority push. I'm betting Rai or Loki or someone will sign up for it too, and the rest of the standards will be split between lynching me, Destil, or Loki. We should be able to squeak it by, with those of you who did come in on TG (Merus, Paul, Vorpal, Kayma) coming aboard if necessary later to fudge the numbers.

Phantoon (May 7):
I'm tempted to vote for Loki tonight, then I'll jump on Eddie early for some dubious reason. So far so normal. If it looks like you guys decide to hit someone else then I'll jump across.
Actually, I'd probably say night kill Eddie and then day kill Loki. Eddie could yet be a problem to us. Underestimate him at our peril.
Anyway, if this is the last night in the Speakeasy then I must say it's been a pleasure to have been evil with you guys.

Kayma (May 7):
Likewise. Great job, everyone. Had a blast.

Destil (May 8):
Indeed. We've had a good run.

Merus (May 7):
Yeah, it's been a hoot.

Vorpaledge@googlewave.com (May 7):
Definitely.

Nich (May 7):
So I've been thinking about this, and about what Destil said about the tempo loss in night killing one of us... and I wonder. Thanks to vaterite, we lose no tempo at all in killing one of our own tonight: previously, the game would be won on a night kill, but now it'll be won on the lynch. Night killing one of us, me or Destil maybe, wouldn't affect the timing of our victory--it'd just shift us right back to winning on the night kill tomorrow (or if not tomorrow, whatever day the citizens do miss again) rather than the day one. It'd also potentially rally the town against Eddie pretty badly, and he'd be forced to reveal himself, winning the game on the auto-lynch. I wouldn't mind going down tonight if I thought it would help us win tomorrow.
Thoughts?

Merus (May 7):
I don't think it'll help that much, to be honest. I mean, if we killed Destil that'd help, but the odds are that if we killed either you or Destil, the scanner would know we killed a rogue and they wouldn't really have to do anything.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 7):
I think it's a throwaway move that we don't need to make and won't buy us anything in the long run.

Merus (May 7):
More or less!

Nich (May 8):
Fair enough. Just an idea, and since the results (convincing the town to lynch Eddie) can't be guaranteed, it's probably best cast aside.

Destil (May 8):
Actually... I kind of like the idea. It either outs the scanner (because no one will believe I was a rogue otherwise) which with Eddie alive should force an auto-lynch (at least one standard, Garrison, is dead set on auto-lynch. Perhaps more that I haven't noticed. So even without Kayma you guys + Eddie + Garrison is a majority) or it gives you just enough leverage to lynch Eddie without attracting attention...
I'm not opposed to it; if everyone else thinks it's a good idea then do it. Conditional vote to wack Destil tonight if you guys decide it's the better plan than Eddie and I'm not around to agree later.

Nich (May 8):
The big reason I can see not to do it is that if the town doesn't buy it, assumes you were a standard but DOESN'T henceforth accept Eddie's guilt, then we're down a rogue and Plan B becomes harder to pull off.

Destil (May 8):
Tock, Pappy... let me look at the vote records. Plenty of standards are willing to off Eddie. And since I switched off of voting for him twice it could even be spun as a cover up.

Nich (May 8):
They're willing to off him now, but if it looks like he's being Comb Strangered, they may back off. That's what I don't like about it: there's an element of risk there and if the gambit fails, we're left without a failsafe as secure as what we have now.

Destil (May 8):
I think killing eddie is equally risky for what it's worth. But fair enough. I'm forced to admit that part of my like of the plan is that it's a stylish way to win :P

Nich (May 8):
But with the Eddie kill, we have enough manpower to get our way no matter what. It will take the ENTIRE town uniting as one, on a single one of us, to overcome our bloc. With eight of us, it's a little riskier. Still pretty safe, but not as safe as nine.

Spineshark (May 8):
If Destil wins the mafia vote I will modkill anyone who voted for him =p

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 7):
Regarding Eddie: I suggested myself that Eddie could be the scanner when he came out strong (and mysteriously so) against Destil and Nich right before being lynched. That said, I've even more consistently maintained that hunting for the scanner is largely a fool's game and likely to lead us in circles, kind of like it has in any other time we've tried hunting for the scanner. Eddie's got some decent evidence for him this time (see above re: comments, mysterious certainties, lots of roundabout scanner talk), but that doesn't give us a guarantee. And if Eddie's not the scanner, he's a perfect night kill because of the uncertainty it casts on Destil and Nich. And also because he's basically the town's leader.
Also, if Eddie IS the scanner, he's going to feel confident driving the day to kill Destil without revealing himself. And/or Nich, because he is already maintaining suspicion on Nich and yesterday possibly drove him further down the road - or at least gave him material to make a big digest on. I know we're in a good position and realistically could afford to take some risks, but I'm not sure we really should/have to.
If we do leave Eddie alive - and I strongly suggest that we do not - Loki wouldn't be a good kill because he bought himself a ton of suspicion today and it's not like he's about to start participating or posing any danger to us (unless he's secretly the scanner lololol). We'd be better served getting someone quiet like Rai.

Mr. J (May 7):
I vote we lynch Eddie either way. If he isn't the scanner it will help force a scanner reveal. If he is the scanner then the standards don't have a scanner at all and we can dogpile someone at end of day for the game win.
Tomorrow we should not make a unified move against one of us early on. I don't want to risk pushing the standards to a lynch we don't want. At this point people are so divided that if we all spread out we can restrict the day-time action until the last bit. Look at the last cycle, nothing really major happened. There wasn't a massive rush of people voting for 1 person all at once. The last several lynches have NOT been majorities.
We should keep it spread out until the last second. I think we should have a designated person make an accusation in the last 6 hours which we can all join in on.

Paul.le.fou@googlewave.com (May 7):
No one's talking about a unified move against one of US. That would be retarded. It's a pile-on to take down one of THEM (and win the game).
And like I said, it's super-risky unless we can be 100% sure that we'll all be present and ready for it. And that's going to be difficult.

Kayma (May 8):
Kill Eddie.
Ideally, Eddie would live to see the end, and suffer the entire way. But alas, killing Eddie tonight and slow burning a win during the day makes more sense to me.

Phantoon (May 8):
If the scanner outs, those who haven't been scanned need to push auto-lynch. For the Town's good. If not then make hay and prepare to dogpile.
24 hours from when they defend themselves we can theoretically insta-kill them if we time it right and have 1 townie on the accusation. I'll keep checking the thread on my phone in work if necessary ready to hit. Should we have some kind of code phrase to put into a post to warn the others that the 24 hours is up and to be prepared to jump? We just aren't cloak and dagger enough otherwise. Just try not to do it when one of us is asleep.

Nich (May 8):
I still think we should save the dogpile as a last resort rather than try an insta-kill after the 24 hour mark. Slow and steady wins the race, remember? But I'll be posting my usual scorecards at the 24 and 48 hour marks. If the rogues on the other side of the world want to get into position after one of the scorecards shows them where to jump, the rest of us could theoretically do it later. Still, let's try the slow drip strategy first and see if that works.
By the way, if Eddie isn't the scanner, remember to wait a few hours after the day starts to make your accusations, just like yesterday, so we can give the scanner time to out themselves.

Phantoon (May 8):
Fair enough. We need to hold the Town to the insta kill in Eddie's memory...

Nich (May 8):
Oh, yes. We can point out that some cracks were forming yesterday in the auto-lynch strategy and the rogues may have thought that killing him could weaken the town's overall resolve to do it.
(Man, I wish I weren't going to be out tonight when day starts up again to see everything explode.)

Phantoon (May 8):
I'll probably sleep through the initial craziness. This should be fun though.

Merus (May 8):
Fine, okay, Eddie. Wusses.

Merus (May 8):
I'm not going to be available at all on Tuesday (i.e. Monday), so if we go longer than 24 hours I probably won't be able to participate.

Destil (May 8):
Eddie was not the scanner according to Spineshark on AIM. Good luck today, gents.

dwolfe
05-11-2010, 11:36 PM
You guys must have LOVED the auto-lynch the scanner bullsh*t that was suggested....*facepalm*

Merus
05-12-2010, 09:51 AM
User note: there's a conversation between spineshark and I in day 1 where we set up the speakeasy and I pass on the accounts of the rogues, and we talk a little bit about my day 1 play. The rogues jumped in at this point and messed it all up.