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Paul le Fou
05-24-2010, 06:50 AM
THE GAME HAS BEGUN!

Alpha Centauri System
Deep space sector 18-5A
U.S.S. Troyes

You were so close. Day 189 of the S.S. Troyes' 199-day secret mission to the fourth belt of Alpha Centauri, bearing valuable information and military cargo to aid in the war against the Sharkies from planet Bronton. The ship carried the newest Beam Blaster technology, shield generators, deep space cloud scannifiers, and more. You, a member of the biological research division. You’d spent the trip in the xenobiotoxicosisology research lab, working with various alien tissues in an effort to find a cure.

It was nearly “nightfall” of the ship’s artifical cycle, and research was coming to an end for the day. You researchers had gathered together around the com-speak monitor-screen to be briefed remotely by Chief Science Officer le Fou on the day’s results. There had been great progress with Sample PRCY-7 lately. The lower deck boys had found a way around the unfortunate side effect of complete biosystem shutdown - a way for the sample to take hold more slowly and integrate itself safely. Infected mice became strong, healthy, energetic, intelligent. Also, murderous. There were still some kinks to be worked out. You'd finally hit a breakthrough on a treatment, albeit one still fatal to the host of the infection. You were close, though. All the while, Sample PRCY-7F, a small reddish-yellow orb resembling a common fruit from back home on ManRock, sat in its dish in the isolation chamber.

The briefing had concluded and you were looking forward to the Titanberry Wine that Chief le Fou had promised the research team. You were finishing logging the last data on the computer when a deafening roar burst into the lab from every direction, knocking you all head over heels over head again. The lights went out and for a sickening second, so did the artificial gravity. People flew this way and that, dodging blinking lights, smoking beakers, and all manner of scientific paraphenalia. You went headfirst into the fume hood, which had luckily already been cleaned out.

In a moment, the lights came on, the klaxons rang out, and the ship righted itself. As you got shakily to your feet, a wave of panic struck you harder than the explosion had.


You whip around to the isolation chamber. One of the researchers, you can't remember who, is staggering. The inside of his cracked face plate lightly spattered with blood. The isolation chamber window with a cracked hole at head's height. The door is opened. Sample PRCY-7F is nowhere in sight.

You take a step towards the isolation chamber and think better of it. You shout for the man's attention. "Where is it? Where is the sample?!" You have to shout again and again until he finally hears you over the din.

As the expression of horror creeps over his face, your own face matches it second for second. He glances down to the floor before looking back to you.

"Boss, the sample... I... I...


...I dropped it."

Paul le Fou
05-24-2010, 07:35 AM
"This is everyone we could find on the Upper Decks, Captain Nich."

Good, good. Let's see... 17 of us. Well, that should be enough. Here we are: we have reason to believe that at least one crew member has been infected with the, the, the virus thing those eggheads have been working on. Damned fool eggheads. I never trusted that le Fou to keep things in control. He's all talk talk talk, but when it comes to actions, what's a scientist worth? This is a war, dammit! Words and words and endless words can only get us so far against the damned Zixiborns. They don't have any words, do you know? Talk by scents or psychic codebeams or some nonsense. And look how dangerous they are. You think a lot of talking will-
Pardon me, boss, but that system scan you requested is finished. Affirmative.
Ah, excellent. Well then-
"What check, boss?"
A... routine lifesign scan of the other decks. I need to know that my crew is safe, you understand. Anyway, let's see what we've got. Of us 17, one of us has been infected by this Porky virus. We're gonna sniff 'im out and use this injection the four-eyes have been cookin' up to clean 'em out. It'll kill the bastard right dead, too.
The injection will kill the infec- oh, sorry boss. Nevermind.
Damn right. Now, we got tools at our disposal.

First, we have Arms-grade Nullification Generation Laser-Shields, or ANGL Shields. Whoever has one of these can generate a shield around one person at a time to protect them from any violence. Now, we’re not sure what kind of shape they’re in, so the generator might blow out if they’re strained with an actual protection. Hopefully, they won’t explode in the process. How many of these units did you retrieve, Ensign Destil?
“None, sir.”
None? What, were we out of stock?
“Oh, no sir. There were 4, sir. But, my hands were full, sir, and Deck 3's corridors had lots of cables hanging down and sparks, lots of sparks, and I, uh… I dropped them. They broke, sir. Very fragile.”
They are very fragile machines, boss.
I hope your head isn't as fragile, you numbskull. Maybe we should let you be a human shield.

Anyway, we also got my personal favorite, the Violence-Grade Laser guN Tubes, or VGLNTs, that I sent Navigator Sprite to find. We only have so many power packs, so each will only have a few shots before it goes dead. We will be arming people with these in case security gets out of-
“Sir? The lasers, sir. There were none.”
None? I was polishing those lasers just this morning! Computer, do you have anyone on cameras taking our Laser guns?
I detected motion in the storage bay, boss, but I dropped the signal.
How does that even happen?
I’m sticking with “the ship’s systems are badly damaged,” boss.
I'm beginning to think you've been damaged for longer than the explosion, computer.

Well, I prefer guns, but you eggheads keep tellin' me that all we need are these Personal RNA Composition scanner arraYs, AKA the PRCY Scanners. With this, we can scan people for infection. However, they use up a lot of Enertron Power, so we can only use them twice per day. And somethin' about how if we nab ourselves a Thinger, we can use their bodies... throw 'em in some... Hell if I know, sounds like nerd squad nonsense to me, y'all scientist's pissin' me off. I'll let you eggheads worry about the details, but the point is it gives us another shot to scan. Unless Doctor Nodal dropped those, too.
"No sir. One unit! Safe and sound, sir."
A goddamn miracle. Here, you leave it on the ground there. Don't think any of you should go about picking it up for a while.

So, we have this... Thing, and once a day he... I don't know. Fuckin' Things, how do they work?
Boss, maybe we should let the researchers explain to everyone.
Good idea, computer. Take it away, Doctor Spineshark.

"Well, the P infection takes about a day to metabolize, which means that it will be a day before the infection can reproduce. We’re looking at one new infection per day, so we’re on a time limit here. Now, since the physical effects of the virus don’t take full effect for a week or two, we won’t have to deal with the increased strength or agility. This means that, luckily, they’ll need to match or outnumber us to beat us. In the meantime, our goal is, obviously, to catch and vaccinate all the infected. It's worth keeping in mind that though he looks like our comrade, he has been permanently turned against us all, and hard. He will show us no mercy, and we can show none to him. That's all, cap- Captain Nich? Where did the Captain go?"
I believe he ran to the escape pod, boss.
"There is still a functioning escape pod?!"
There was still a functioning escape pod.
"Why didn't you tell us?!"
The captain ordered me not to announce the results of my scan to everyone.

Oh, Christ. OK, we're down to 16, then. In the absence of any leadership, I say we vote on who to scan. Most votes wins, nice and simple. We only have so much time, now, so we have to act quickly. Whoever has the most votes at the end of the period gets scanned. Remember, we can scan twice in a day, once at the 48 hour mark, and once at the 96 hour mark.
"Look, I know the ship day cycles are messed up and all but-
I really don't want to hear it right now. So, to recap:

~15 of us, one of them.
~The Thing(s) can infect one new player per night.
~We have two scanning phases per day.
~Vote by saying, in bold text, I VOTE TO SCAN (Paul le Fou).
~Candidate with the most votes at the end of the period is scanned and the results come back. If the target is infected, he will be destroyed.
~If we get a positive result on the second scan, we can scan a third time. If we get a positive result on the third scan, we can scan a fourth time, and so on. This will extend the Day Phase by 48 hours each time.
~If we get a negative result on the second scan or any thereafter, we move immediately to night phase for 48 hours.

Any questions?”
No questions here, boss.
“Thank you, computer. Now…

Where do we start?

Paul le Fou
05-24-2010, 07:39 AM
Crew Members on the Upper Deck: 7

spineshark
namelessentity
Rai
Nich
Merus
Umby
Sprite

Identified and Terminated:
Bongo Bill - Scan 3-1
Eddie - Scan 3-2
dwolfe - Scan 5-1
locit - Scan 6-1
Adam - Scan 7-2
Nodal - Scan 8-2
Destil - Scan 9-1
McClain - Scan 9-2

Scan Results:

Day 1:
Rai - Clean (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=768936&postcount=143)
Umby - clean (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=770694&postcount=213)

Day 2:
Destil - Clean (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=772523&postcount=256)
shivam - Clean (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=773851&postcount=333)

Day 3:
Bongo Bill - PRCY (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=777310&postcount=377)
Eddie - PRCY (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=779067&postcount=432)
Nodal - Clean (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=781026&postcount=540)

Day 4:
Merus - Clean (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=784060&postcount=581)
Umby - Clean (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=786193&postcount=647)

Day 5:
Dwolfe - PRCY (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=789521&postcount=690)
Destil - Clean (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=791287&postcount=745)

Day 6:
Locit - PRCY (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=794572&postcount=791)
NamelessEntity - Clean (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=795839&postcount=833)

Day 7:
McClain - Clean (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=799730&postcount=872)
Adam - PRCY (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=800962&postcount=949)
spineshark - Clean (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=801932&postcount=1011)

Day 8:
Sprite - Clean (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=803919&postcount=1059)
Nodal - PRCY (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=804925&postcount=1101)
Nameless Entity - Clean (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=806234&postcount=1145)

Day 9:
Destil - PRCY (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=809027&postcount=1174)
McClain - PRCY (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=809992&postcount=1236)

spineshark
05-24-2010, 09:06 AM
Upper Deck.

Like those football cards my brother had when he was younger.

Sprite
05-24-2010, 09:28 AM
Navigator David Sprite Freeman, reporting for duty, cap-

Oh, wait, he's gone. Well... I'm not sure where to start, really. I'm actually on break right now, you see...

Right. I'll be at work Monday through Friday from 8 am - 5 pm Eastern time. I'll be able to check in on my breaks, but I probably won't get to contribute much during that time. Once I'm off-duty I plan to participate as much as I can, though. Let's get these Thingers!

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss339/LilSpriteX/4565019.gif

Oh, and this is Puck. He's a, uh, souvenir from my navigation training.

spineshark
05-24-2010, 09:29 AM
Well, the obvious first move is to kill dwolfe, don't you all think?

Sprite
05-24-2010, 09:40 AM
Well, we shouldn't expect to find the Thing on our first scan, but I don't see any good reason to scan at random, so we need to pick a target that -
A) Has a track record of good strategy
B) We don't mind painting a target on

In other words, someone who's useful, but not too useful, ya dig?

Then again, it might not be a good idea to try and predict the Thing's movements at this time. Thoughts?

spineshark
05-24-2010, 09:42 AM
Sounds like...you.

I was joking about dwolfe anyway.

dwolfe
05-24-2010, 09:55 AM
Doctor Dwolfe reporting for duty, guys!

I'm happy to report that my own research project T.T.I.M.E.* was safely secured

Since us eggheads are apparently useless for fighting wars,** and I am certainly a giant target whose only use is pontificating on strategy without actually living long enough to execute it, I'm happy to report that I'm willing to undergo the first scan. I have nothing to hide here.***

*Transcendent Terror Induction Module, Electronic. Simply put, a system by which HERCY (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=752626&postcount=78)[Not Safe for Living Organisms], a digital variant of PERCY, could be transmitted directly into the brains of our enemies, without the messy biological aspects. A much more elegant approach, but still an early prototype. Permanent mental scarring, but no deaths to date in test subjects.

**Who do you think made those wonderful toys you guys dropped?!

***Then again, that's what a PRCY would say, wouldn't they?

Nodal
05-24-2010, 10:02 AM
Custodial science officer Nodal reporting. I'm not quite sure what we can learn this first day, other than somebody we can rely on for the rest of the day.

dwolfe
05-24-2010, 10:08 AM
Three quick points of order guys:

1.) The scientific term for what we're dealing with is a PRCY, which you guys call Things; which should we use during this crisis?*

2.) @Dr. le Fou: I'm a scientist, not a medical doctor, damnit! Is it safe to assume there's only one of these things around? That is, did the original infection only hit one person, and has it not spread to anyone else yet?

3.) We have an exponential growth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth) problem guys. Assuming we didn't kill them, we have 2^N Things on day N: 1 on day 1, 2 on day 2, 4 on day 3, 8 on day 4, and we're all dead on day 5. We're fortunate that we can use their dead bodies to fuel the PRCY scanner, or this would be a nearly impossible situation.

Some of you soldiers are supposedly experts at beating the odds. Good luck.

*That PRCY Scanner? Yeah, that's me again, guys. It was originally designed and purposed to inject HERCY directly into subjects, but those slackers in Medical borrowed a few for their own purposes. Don't worry though, there's no chance there's any HERCY left in them. Totally safe. Really.

spineshark
05-24-2010, 10:12 AM
I'm pretty sure that's "one per night" not "one each per night"

McClain
05-24-2010, 10:29 AM
Private Red Shirt McClain reporting for duty!

*looks down*

Red Shirt ... balls!

Well, here's hoping to challenge precedent! As a low ranking journalist officer, I'll be around all hours of the cycle. Mostly before 4 p.m. and after midnight Eastern, but I'll pop in through the day while on duty.

So, we gotta pick someone to scan first, huh? Who hasn't shown up yet? Surly that's Thing-ish behavior. Sneaking around, watching us from a far...

Merus! It's totally Merus.

Adam
05-24-2010, 10:52 AM
Janitorial technician third class Adam reporting for duty here. Not quite sure what to make of all this PRCY business, but if I know anything, it's how to clean up a mess.

To comply with union rules, I must stay on the job for at least 6 hours from 8-5 Monday through Friday, though I think there's a provision in section 203c of our charter that lets me keep a communicator on during biological emergencies.

Sprite
05-24-2010, 10:54 AM
8-5 Monday through Friday

What time zone?

shivam
05-24-2010, 11:22 AM
Why is everyone a janitor?
Real men have real jobs like me, 2nd Lieutenant Shivam, Cafetorial Relations.


---
So our job now is to discern the patient zero, correct? Is it even possible on day 1? Or shall we play the japanese game of the proudest nail getting the hammer? If that is the case, So-called Doktor Dwolfe is crying out for a poundin'...

namelessentity
05-24-2010, 11:31 AM
[B][SIZE="7"]There had been great progress with Sample PRCY-7 lately. The lower deck boys had found a way around the unfortunate side effect of complete biosystem shutdown - a way for the sample to take hold more slowly and integrate itself safely. Infected mice became strong, healthy, energetic, intelligent. Also, murderous.

Those damn madmen on the lower deck, messing with powers that ought not be messed with. I think after we kill this Thing (which of course we'll do in one day, we are just that awesome), we remove atmosphere from the lower deck, just to be safe

dwolfe
05-24-2010, 12:07 PM
I'm pretty sure that's "one per night" not "one each per night"

One per night per PRCY (the rules suggest exactly this, by saying the Percy(s)), or does the PRCY jump bodies, leaving the other one dead, each night? That seems a pretty piss-poor way to be fruitful and multiply. My fellow scientists are clearly working with an early beta version if that's true.

One of us is honestly mistaken here, or you are filthy PRCY trying to have us underestimate how quickly they reproduce. The less I know of PRCY mating rituals, the better.

shall we play the japanese game of the proudest nail getting the hammer? If that is the case, So-called Doktor Dwolfe is crying out for a poundin'...

So you dislike someone* actually thinking about how to kill PRCY? Suspicious! not really

Those damn madmen on the lower deck, messing with powers that ought not be messed with. I think after we kill this Thing (which of course we'll do in one day, we are just that awesome), we remove atmosphere from the lower deck, just to be safe

I hear they were transporting duplicate samples down there, and if the sample broke in the firm, yet supple, strong, yet gentle, hands of the rugged Upper Deck crew, the Lower Deck has to be contaminated as well. Good thinking. I need a shower now.

*I play a Mad Scientist Doctor in real life, don't call me Doktor! ;)

shivam
05-24-2010, 12:10 PM
Just throwing ideas out there, chief. Day one, least fun, at least till we get some informations =)

For what its worth, I totally volunteer to be scanned first, if only to establish the purity that only an ayurvedic lifestyle can provide.

Rai
05-24-2010, 12:21 PM
I knew we shouldn't have trusted an AI. They only lead to problems. No, we should have stuck with a trusted crew of hu-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/NuZGundam/pdi.png
I seem to have dropped the connection, sorry boss! Reconnecting....

-least it wasn't that experimental SHODAN unit. Anyway, senior technician Rai reporting in. I'm fairly certain that the rules say that no matter how many Things there are, they can only infect one per night, rather than one crewmember per night.

As for nailing the first infected... well, that's going to be tough. I don't think uninfected should just be volunteering to go through, because that only puts a target on them later. Maybe Dr. dwolfe would be ideal then.

Also, I am all for venting the lower decks. What have they done for us recently anyway, right?

Sprite
05-24-2010, 12:38 PM
Why is everyone a janitor?
That's my fault, sorry. Puckmarin droppings are... um...

Well, no adjective would be sufficient, really.
I don't think uninfected should just be volunteering to go through, because that only puts a target on them later. Maybe Dr. dwolfe would be ideal then.
Are you deliberately contradicting yourself here, or just punking dwolfe?

You guys and dwolfe. Am I the only one here that hasn't murdered him at some point?

locit
05-24-2010, 12:42 PM
Senior beaker cleaner Locit reporting, sirs. I'm usually available for dedicated service after 5 p.m. Central Galactic Time. This being my Very First Mission I'm sure nothing bad will happen to me. Nossir. Not on this mission. Nuh-uh.

I'll just clean these beakers until I'm needed then, sirs. We might need them later.

McClain
05-24-2010, 12:44 PM
You guys and dwolfe. Am I the only one here that hasn't murdered him at some point?

I'm new around here, but I'm ready to get my hands dirty, if that's the way it's done.

Wait, do we murder, or just scan? Are we more Star Trek or Star Wars up here? I joined this crew to get my Laser Certification, not to do statistics, dammit!

Sprite
05-24-2010, 12:45 PM
We just scan. If they're infected, they die and we get to go again. If not, they're left alive but we move to the next phase.

Rai
05-24-2010, 12:50 PM
Are you deliberately contradicting yourself here, or just punking dwolfe?

You guys and dwolfe. Am I the only one here that hasn't murdered him at some point?

Maybe I am! My thought process went along the lines of "Hey, we have two scans per "day", and we practically need to catch this Thing immediately. Therefore, we really shouldn't have crew members clogging up the scan queue."

With that thought in place, I assumed the other crew members would have thought of the same thing. And so I figured that someone who volunteered to be scanned would be trying to seem more innocent than they are, and so should be scanned.

I do see holes in my logic though, and there's a reason I didn't bold my accusation (it's because it wasn't an accusation). Still, it is the first day, and dwolfe's as good a choice as any. And what's more, he's only out if he's been Thingified. So we can vote for him all we want, if he's clean he'll just keep coming back.

dwolfe
05-24-2010, 12:51 PM
You guys and dwolfe. Am I the only one here that hasn't murdered him at some point?

You may be the only one that hasn't wanted to murder me yet?

Senior beaker cleaner Locit reporting, sirs. I'm usually available for dedicated service after 5 p.m. Central Galactic Time. This being my Very First Mission I'm sure nothing bad will happen to me. Nossir. Not on this mission. Nuh-uh.

I'll just clean these beakers until I'm needed then, sirs. We might need them later.

Fantastic job, SBC Locit. I can't detect a hint of detergent when I mix my margaritas in the beakers!*

*Lab glassware (beakers and flasks) makes the best mixed drink containers! Although former professors have done so, I do not recommend making soup in them over a Bunsen burner, no matter how romantic the light. The light...the soft, blue-yellow glow reflected in your eyes, as we clink together our margarita beakers. The gentle tapping of boiling stones in the soup beaker and the soft drone of a centrifuge in the distance setting the mood. ...I'll be in my lab.

Sprite
05-24-2010, 01:20 PM
Maybe I am! My thought process went along the lines of "Hey, we have two scans per "day", and we practically need to catch this Thing immediately. Therefore, we really shouldn't have crew members clogging up the scan queue."

With that thought in place, I assumed the other crew members would have thought of the same thing. And so I figured that someone who volunteered to be scanned would be trying to seem more innocent than they are, and so should be scanned.

So, if I'm navigating your logic correctly, we should scan dwolfe because we shouldn't scan dwolfe?

Sprite
05-24-2010, 01:24 PM
I suppose it doesn't matter one way or the other. We'll end up in the same place no matter what direction we go today, pretty much.

So let me ask this: if dwolfe is clean, how much influence do you think he should have next phase?

shivam
05-24-2010, 01:31 PM
this challenge is different than previous games in that being scanned might actually be worse than not being scanned. Once scanned and proclaimed clean, the scanee becomes a target for PRCY, and is immediately worrisome, unless we scan them again the next day.

theoretically, we could continually scan the same two folks day in and day out and create a confirmed clean bloc, but as scanning is the only way to kill, aside from the vigilante, i dont know if that's really the best idea.

Sprite
05-24-2010, 01:50 PM
theoretically, we could continually scan the same two folks day in and day out and create a confirmed clean bloc, but as scanning is the only way to kill, aside from the vigilante, i dont know if that's really the best idea.

It's not.

Wait, there's a Vigilante? Where does it say that?

this challenge is different than previous games in that being scanned might actually be worse than not being scanned. Once scanned and proclaimed clean, the scanee becomes a target for PRCY, and is immediately worrisome, unless we scan them again the next day.
Well, that depends. How much doublethink do you want to do? If the Thing knows we're expecting scanned crew members to be infected, and thus will always be wary of them, then it won't infect them. Unless we decide it will do that, in which case it won't.

We should be wary of trying to pinpoint PRCY's actions. Do we want to try and predict what it's going to do before it's done, and thus don't know whether to expect that it did? Or do we hush up about plans we think would be good for PRCY, and try to expose them later, at the risk of being infected before we reveal them, and thus end up giving those plans straight to the Thing?

One thing I am worried about is, perish the thought, crew members hoping to be infected by PRCY. Y'all better be on our side, y'hear? I didn't steer us into this sector to be led astray by bug-chasing nutjobs! We're at war! I don't want my Momma enslaved in a Brontonian macro mine.

Rai
05-24-2010, 02:04 PM
I suppose it doesn't matter one way or the other. We'll end up in the same place no matter what direction we go today, pretty much.

So let me ask this: if dwolfe is clean, how much influence do you think he should have next phase?

Yeah, my logic's flawed. I blame the heat wave we are currently experiencing.

As for future influence, I'd probably say no more than anyone else in the future. Unlike previous games, where we had power roles we could rely on, we have no 100% method of knowing who is corrupted at all times.

Actually, wait, scratch that, we do, but we don't have a method for long term. If whoever we scan turns out uninfected on the first scan, we can trust their word more on the second. It's still going to be plagued with problems that the rest of the crew members have (imperfect information, possibility of them being contaminated, etc), but at least we'll know for that section of the day that they were clean.

spineshark
05-24-2010, 02:17 PM
Actually, wait, scratch that, we do, but we don't have a method for long term. If whoever we scan turns out uninfected on the first scan, we can trust their word more on the second. It's still going to be plagued with problems that the rest of the crew members have (imperfect information, possibility of them being contaminated, etc), but at least we'll know for that section of the day that they were clean.
As soon as you say things like that, they become less true =/

Nodal
05-24-2010, 02:18 PM
I vote we scan Rai first. He's saying foolish contradictory things, and I remember a Merus that did the same thing.

shivam
05-24-2010, 02:22 PM
It's not.

Wait, there's a Vigilante? Where does it say that?




Anyway, we also got my personal favorite, the Violence-Grade Laser guN Tubes, or VGLNTs, that I sent Navigator Sprite to find. We only have so many power packs, so each will only have a few shots before it goes dead. We will be arming people with these in case security gets out of-
“Sir? The lasers, sir. There were none.”

Sprite
05-24-2010, 02:37 PM
Ah, that's what those things were? All I knew is that I needed to find a series of tubes. I mean, I knew right where they were, because I am

The Navigator

but I'm a lover, not a fighter. Or am I?

Anyway, according to my scanner, we're already twenty posts ahead of the lower deck. We still have quite a bit of time left in this phase, so I'm going to slow down on the talkie-talkie and wait for the other crew members to weigh in on our course of action. No point in being hasty here.

Eddie
05-24-2010, 02:59 PM
Hey guys! Listen, I know we're all scarred of this PRCY whatchamacallit but can we hurry this ship along to New York?

My daughter is in a school play and since I've laughably missed all her major events since she was born, I promised her THAT would be the event I'd make. I even have a wave I said I'd do so she'd know it was me.

It's like the way the Queen waves when she's addressing royalty.

- Eddie

Adam
05-24-2010, 03:10 PM
What time zone?

PST. Sorry, I dropped that into a container, and didn't think you'd be interested in a bucket of PST.

McClain
05-24-2010, 03:21 PM
Private McClain is going to work on patrol. I'll report back later tonight to let you know if I see anything strange.

Adam
05-24-2010, 03:28 PM
Shivam:

"The lasers, sir. There were none.”

I'm pretty sure this means that we don't have any VGLNT lasers, nor do we have ANGL shields.

shivam
05-24-2010, 03:34 PM
oh, really? huh. As much as i like the flavor text, i really wish paul had been explicit about those things.

well then. That makes it that much harder to build a coalition of the clear then, doesn't it.

shivam
05-24-2010, 03:37 PM
ok, i did a close read of the intro text and it looks like the only weapon available to the crew is the scanner. So is there even a point in trying to establish an innocence bloc? Anyone we scan will be a target for the PRCY, and there's no way of knowing unless we dedicate one scan a day into rescanning old cleans.

namelessentity
05-24-2010, 04:53 PM
I'm having bit of a motivation problem. It is very unlikely we are going to hit the Thing on the first day, and if we miss we don't lose any players, so I'm prepared to vote for anything.

I think we need to start declaring strategies publicly, with as much double think as possible. Start laying traps for PRCY. Before, if a crew member tried to lay a suspicious trap, they would be killed by the other crew members before it could be played out. But this iteration, all that will happen is you will get scanned and we will find that your plan was trustworthy.

I think this go around crew members will be able to hide their true intentions and still benefit the overall crew.

locit
05-24-2010, 05:26 PM
ok, i did a close read of the intro text and it looks like the only weapon available to the crew is the scanner. So is there even a point in trying to establish an innocence bloc? Anyone we scan will be a target for the PRCY, and there's no way of knowing unless we dedicate one scan a day into rescanning old cleans.
It seems to me that an innocence bloc is relatively pointless without sufficient flexibility. Anything more rigid than a prescient use of the first PRCY each day sounds like a waste of a scan, and might risk establishing a reliable pattern that could be abused by the infected. (Though I suppose this could change in the future as events unfold.)
Fantastic job, SBC Locit. I can't detect a hint of detergent when I mix my margaritas in the beakers!*
The trick is a good hand drying quickly after the last rinse, sirs. It cuts down on the fumes, though some BC's detest the streaks galacto-cloth leaves on the glass after a vigorous polishing. Any BC worth their salt knows looks come second to cleanliness, of course.
...I'll be in my lab.
Er, no comment, sirs.

Sprite
05-24-2010, 05:35 PM
Oh, so I wasn't confused after all. Then what was this series of tubes I found?

Hey guys! Listen, I know we're all scarred of this PRCY whatchamacallit but can we hurry this ship along to New York?

My daughter is in a school play and since I've laughably missed all her major events since she was born, I promised her THAT would be the event I'd make. I even have a wave I said I'd do so she'd know it was me.

It's like the way the Queen waves when she's addressing royalty.

- Eddie

You find me that PRCY, I can get us back in time for your daughter's play, provided said play takes place in 200 days. I can't do a thing without access to my instruments on the lower deck, and the computer is absolutely no help. Computer?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/NuZGundam/pdi.png
Yes, boss?

Could you give me our coordinates? I need to know the fastest way to New York.

Sure thing boss! Shhhhcanning!

*static*

Boss! Boss!

Yes?

I found our coordinates! We're in space!

Okay, computer. Thank you.

Adam
05-24-2010, 05:47 PM
For now, I'm willing to give a pass to anyone who asked for themselves to be scanned. Since it only takes one single scan to knock the PRCY out of the game right now, it wouldn't make much sense for it to call attention to itself in that manner. All we'd need is to call that bluff, and the game would be over in a single day.

That being said, I don't know if it's the best idea to be offering ourselves up for scanning. We don't gain any long-term information by knowing you're uninfected, and worse, you're taking away one of our chances for a kill. Thus, I don't intend to give a pass to anyone trying to have themselves scanned after this post goes up.

TLDR - Don't worry about shivam or dwolfe right now. For the future, if you're innocent, then don't have us waste time scanning you.

dwolfe
05-24-2010, 05:56 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen!

I return from my lab with a refined theoretical construct of great utility and worth. An Ingenious Development of Exacting Authority, or an I.D.E.A.!

My Most Humble Proposal:

Understanding that:

Since we have two temporally separated daytime inspections;

Since PRCY's are like Gremlins and only multiply after midnight;

Since each day we cannot trust absolutely trust the prior day's verifications of innocence;

Since I don't want to end up a PRCY;

I hereby propose that if and only if a person is Verified as Innocent during the first scan of the day;

Then we vote to follow the Verified Innocent's lead in selection of the second scan of that same day.

The Verified Innocent might be dumb, misguided, or wrong, but is not seeking our destruction. We KNOW a PRCY will be all those things at once, and seeking our deaths to boot.

Thoughts on above proposal?

Paul le Fou
05-24-2010, 05:57 PM
2.) @Dr. le Fou: I'm a scientist, not a medical doctor, damnit! Is it safe to assume there's only one of these things around? That is, did the original infection only hit one person, and has it not spread to anyone else yet?

3.) We have an exponential growth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth) problem guys. Assuming we didn't kill them, we have 2^N Things on day N: 1 on day 1, 2 on day 2, 4 on day 3, 8 on day 4, and we're all dead on day 5. We're fortunate that we can use their dead bodies to fuel the PRCY scanner, or this would be a nearly impossible situation.

Some of you soldiers are supposedly experts at beating the odds. Good luck.


2: Only one Thing at the moment, as it says in the Rules post.

3: One new Thing per night regardless of how many Things exist at the moment. Otherwise it would be literally impossible!


Shivam - sorry, I was adapting from a normal-mafia ruleset and wanted to keep a nod + Dropping inventory items gag. No power roles in this game at all, just crew, things, and the vote to scan.

shivam
05-24-2010, 06:02 PM
noted, paul, thanks.

dwolfe
05-24-2010, 06:10 PM
Why am I being so talkative so soon? Aren't we nerds supposed to shut up and make some new toys with which to shoot some aliens dead, dead, dead?

First of all, you guys broke every ANGL and VGLNT badly, and we don't have spare parts. Our recently departed Captain seems to have embezzled the funds for them.

Second, well, guys, my social graces aren't much to speak of, so I'm doing some game analysis before I get PRCY'ed to stop it. I expect I'll get much more quiet after today, unless I come up with some game ideas to share (hopefully worth discussion) or tell you about my lovely lab assistant.

However, if I or anyone else on this ship become a PRCY, it will do everything in its power to act 'naturally'. This is the only day you can actually trust that my, and most everyone else's, ideas aren't deliberately flawed and misleading.

This is the day people must speak up so we know who they are in future days!

HoweverWell, the obvious first move is to kill dwolfe, don't you all think?

Inspect, not kill! Bad spineshark! No VGLNT for you!

McClain
05-24-2010, 06:17 PM
Checking in on my lunch break from rounds. Nothing unusual to report so far, though I did get the funny feeling that I was being watched while going through some of the more exploded parts of the ship. I'm keeping my guard up in case any of you murder-crazy bastards get any ideas.



Inspect, not kill! Bad spineshark! No VGLNT for you!

We can kill them after scanning, right? Is the scan at least painful?

Paul le Fou
05-24-2010, 06:19 PM
We can kill them after scanning, right? Is the scan at least painful?

It is so painful.

Eddie
05-24-2010, 06:27 PM
I've been trying to think up a strategy to try and use, here's the best two I could think of:

1) Auto-lynch the scanner ah ha ha ha. ha.

2) Why don't we pair everyone with someone else? Or rather, we can randomly generate a sort of 'list' and have everyone assigned to closely examine the next person. The idea being that instead of everyone scattered and paying attention to as many people as they reasonably can, we have a go-to person to uh, go-to and say "give us a status report on (person x)."

I'm not recommending that we each focus on one person, I'm merely saying that doing so would prevent anyone from flying 'under the radar' as it were.

I used random.org to generate the following list (listing our names in the order Paul listed them on page 1):

4. Bongo Bill
2. Locit
12. Merus
6. Rai
5. dwolfe
16. Sprite
7. Nodal
16. Umby
9. Eddie
11. Shivam
14. Adam
1. Spineshark
13. McClain142
8. Eirikr
3. namelessentity
10. Destil

So you find your number, and your job is to keep tabs on the player right below you. That means for example, I'm going to keep a close eye on Shivam, Shivan will keep a close eye on Adam, and Destil will keep a close eye on Bongo Bill.

If someone is killed, the person that was examining them moves onto examining the person the deceased was supposed to be watching. For example, if Shivam is infected and is cleansed and killed, then it becomes my job to keep an eye on Adam.

I repeat this is NOT an excuse to completely ignore everyone but your 'examination target.' It's just to make sure no one slips through the cracks from our watchful eyes.

- Eddie

Nodal
05-24-2010, 06:29 PM
Plans

This would be great except everything Umby does is suspicious forever.

Nodal
05-24-2010, 06:32 PM
Also, Rai disappears immediately after I say we should scan him. I'm totally going with scanning Rai.

Destil
05-24-2010, 06:36 PM
I believe I'm technically the chief robotics officer now, but only because I'm the only one left...

Therefore Remaining Robotics Officer Destil, Ensign Grade, at your service. First of all: sorry about those shields. There were sparks. And cables. And possibly a shaky-cam shot of me fleeing down the hallway for my life after hearing something.

Rai
05-24-2010, 06:40 PM
Also, Rai disappears immediately after I say we should scan him. I'm totally going with scanning Rai.

Life happens dude. I spent a fine evening with someone who wasn't on the ship. PERHAPS THE PRCY, HMMMMMM SELF? Protip: It wasn't.

Anyway, if I really wanted to avoid being a target, I wouldn't have posted much more than fluff regardless. Last game I was panned (though never lynched for some reason) for being incredibly quiet, when really I should have been panned for being gullible. So this time I figured I'd try something different and throw out plans without putting too much thought into them.

What I said didn't necessarily make a lot of sense, not even to me. But such is life, and I figured I'd try and make more of an impact. This means that I'm going to be less reserved, and while I'd be all for lynching someone with a bad idea, even if that meant myself, in this game I'm not really up for that. We need to stop the infection ASAP, I think we can all agree. And while I'd love to be vindicated for scan two so I could lead you all wherever the hell I felt like, that's not good for the crew members.

Besides, there's still a bunch of hours left in the day, we have a bit more time to hash out ideas and post examination. I quite like Eddie's idea, actually.

Nodal
05-24-2010, 06:42 PM
Sorry you're still totally suspicious, and scanning you doesn't kill you. The vote stands.

Destil
05-24-2010, 06:52 PM
We can use the first scan each day as a way to validate someone. The second scan, due to the additional scan we get if it is successful, is far more critical. That said, everything you do is suspicious as always, but because you no longer risk hurting the crew members by misdirecting a scan, it's only a lost opportunity.

That said, two random scans wins the game for us 12% of the time today. I think the things have an uphill battle since we can never really hurt ourselves, the earliest the game can end with us losing is night 7.

I vote that we titrate some thing detector into Sprite and see if he turns orange.

I have my reasons, but I'm going to with hold them: I think that with a single thing the odds of them making amazing moves are much less likely. The real power of the mafia last game was putting 10 heads together every night, one person can make all sorts of mistakes. So I'm not giving away what I consider to be the optimal thing strategy early game. So far Sprite fits it best and for the first scan I think he's a great candidate.

[Paul: is there any way you want us to indicate scan votes aside from bold? A key word or anything?]

Bong Bill Report: All clear so far.

Sprite
05-24-2010, 06:56 PM
I'm not sure about Eddie's idea. It feels like we'd be giving a grocery list to PRCY to strategically screw with. The right chain of buddies could easily steer us in the wrong direction. I'll have to mull it over.

dwolfe's iteration of the M2E strategy is alright, I guess. I propose an addendum:

- Confirmed clean members will, within reason, be tasked with creating digests. This will ensure that any and all digests we have are good intel, or at least honest intel. It will also ensure that crew members won't throw themselves at the scan, because seriously, who wants to put in that work?

Sprite
05-24-2010, 06:57 PM
Aaand now I'm up for a scan. I have to watch Breaking Bad now, so I'll be back in a bit.

Nodal
05-24-2010, 06:58 PM
It will also ensure that crew members won't throw themselves at the scan, because seriously, who wants to put in that work?

Genius. I'm behind this 100%.

dwolfe
05-24-2010, 07:05 PM
I'm not sure about Eddie's idea. It feels like we'd be giving a grocery list to PRCY to strategically screw with. The right chain of buddies could easily steer us in the wrong direction. I'll have to mull it over.

dwolfe's iteration of the M2E strategy is alright, I guess. I propose an addendum:

- Confirmed clean members will, within reason, be tasked with creating digests. This will ensure that any and all digests we have are good intel, or at least honest intel. It will also ensure that crew members won't throw themselves at the scan, because seriously, who wants to put in that work?

I didn't know that was a M2E strategy, neat. People are able to try to convince the verified innocent why to make a decision, but everyone should vote with the verified innocent's final call at least, right?

Should the VI make a digest on JUST the person(s) they suspect, or a copule? I think making digests on too many people is dangerous. It shows the PRCY(s) exactly what we are thinking of them.

Destil
05-24-2010, 07:18 PM
So, what do we do, dwolfe, when the things help to convince us to scan someone they know is wrong with scan one? Because that's the sort of thing the mafia love to do. Keep someone who wants to lynch a lot of innocents alive to make their job easier...

I can't say I particularly like the idea. Leaning hard on 'confirmed' innocents is a long time TT mafia tradition and it's never been very effective. We either have innocents who can't find mafia (M1) or innocents who can and we manage to not listen to anyway (M2E).

We can certainly afford to scan someone just for information, especially with the first scan.

Paul le Fou
05-24-2010, 07:51 PM
[Paul: is there any way you want us to indicate scan votes aside from bold? A key word or anything?]

Go ahed and give me a "I VOTE TO SCAN (DESTIL'S SOCK DRAWER)" to make life easier on me.

dwolfe
05-24-2010, 08:04 PM
So, what do we do, dwolfe, when the things help to convince us to scan someone they know is wrong with scan one? Because that's the sort of thing the mafia love to do. Keep someone who wants to lynch a lot of innocents alive to make their job easier...

I can't say I particularly like the idea. Leaning hard on 'confirmed' innocents is a long time TT mafia tradition and it's never been very effective. We either have innocents who can't find mafia (M1) or innocents who can and we manage to not listen to anyway (M2E).

We can certainly afford to scan someone just for information, especially with the first scan.

I hesitated to say we all vote to have the innocent vote for us, as that kills the game and prevents discussion which may allow a PRCY to be revealed; that's dumb. Ignoring the information from an innocent is idiotic. What other options do we have with that information? I'm not seeing them

Long time tradition of...two. whole. games. *facepalmpicard.jpg*

It's different. The innocent is only leaned upon for one day, period. They are asked to explain their reasoning, not just a 'suspicion list'.

On the Thing influencing the vote? Easy to get around. Don't let a Nichroad lead everyone around by the nose. Think for yourself more.

Saying 'that's not a good idea' doesn't mean it's not 'the best idea anyone has offered so far, with enough limits and caveats that the Thing can't use it to its advantage'.

Anyone else?

Sprite
05-24-2010, 08:20 PM
dwolfe's plan is definitely flawed, I'll give you that, and severely nerfed by the new ruleset (by design, in fact). We should definitely pump innocents for suspicion lists and digests, though (I don't think we need to ask for tons of digests. Let's not be that cruel. People do have lives).

Ah, I'm glad to see wolfie knows it's not a silver bullet. Good good.
We can use the first scan each day as a way to validate someone. The second scan, due to the additional scan we get if it is successful, is far more critical. That said, everything you do is suspicious as always, but because you no longer risk hurting the crew members by misdirecting a scan, it's only a lost opportunity.
I'm fine with this for the first couple days. After that we should try to get Thingers on every scan. Luckily, this ruleset allows us to math stuff so we'll know exactly where we stand.
I have my reasons, but I'm going to with hold them: I think that with a single thing the odds of them making amazing moves are much less likely. The real power of the mafia last game was putting 10 heads together every night, one person can make all sorts of mistakes. So I'm not giving away what I consider to be the optimal thing strategy early game. So far Sprite fits it best and for the first scan I think he's a great candidate.
That's awful cryptic. Hey guys, I think I know a really good Thing strategy. I'm not going to tell you what it is, but Sprite is doing it.
*later that night*
brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrzap
Wel-elcome to PRCY, Desdesdestil. How how how how how about that strategy?

You have Mafia experience in the only Mafia to win on TT so far, were infected without notice, and are a fairly good player, more or less. Would you like to be scanned tonight, or tomorrow?

I VOTE TO SCAN DESTIL

Merus
05-24-2010, 08:26 PM
Comms Officer Merus reporting in! I'm probably not dead yet. I keep a somewhat nocturnal schedule, so I'll probably check in every day around this time.

Anyone we scan will be a target for the PRCY, and there's no way of knowing unless we dedicate one scan a day into rescanning old cleans.

This is a terrible mistake: we want to get everyone scanned eventually, because we only win once we identify every single infected. Even taking PRCY infection into account, half of our scanned players are still going to be clean. We'll have no shortage of information, and if we ever become unsure about a player, we can double back and use a scan on them.


Understanding that:

Since we have two temporally separated daytime inspections;

Since PRCY's are like Gremlins and only multiply after midnight;

Since each day we cannot trust absolutely trust the prior day's verifications of innocence;

Since I don't want to end up a PRCY;

I hereby propose that if and only if a person is Verified as Innocent during the first scan of the day;

Then we vote to follow the Verified Innocent's lead in selection of the second scan of that same day.

The Verified Innocent might be dumb, misguided, or wrong, but is not seeking our destruction. We KNOW a PRCY will be all those things at once, and seeking our deaths to boot.

Thoughts on above proposal?

Sounds good to me, Destil.

Wait. dwolfe? dwolfe is making sense? Well, alright. Sounds good; I think doing this will give the people who desire a little certainty in their life some comfort, it gives less good players a chance to participate, and it makes the first scan matter, considering finding a PRCY on the first scan doesn't count.

The only thing that concerns me is that it doesn't actually matter if PRCYs are manipulating us, because they can't get us to kill an innocent. All they can really do is waste our time. But I think it's wise to be shuffling around who's "leader" because I remember from last game that I'd usually lean on the same few suggestible people to drive discussion. We don't want the PRCYs to be doing that again.

Sprite
05-24-2010, 08:33 PM
~RULES CLARIFICATION~

If someone comes up clean on the second scan, are they still susceptible to infection that night? I remember one proposed variant allowing protection from the Thing to the player currently being scanned. Is that still the case?

Merus
05-24-2010, 08:37 PM
It will also ensure that crew members won't throw themselves at the scan, because seriously, who wants to put in that work?

Wait, why is this something we want to prevent? PRCYs aren't going to throw themselves at the scan, and indeed are going to argue that they should make the scan as difficult as possible.

I think for Day 1 we want to scan the least desirable conversion targets. We need to keep in mind that PRCY will be recruiting, and so we should avoid wasting our scans on likely conversion targets.

dwolfe and Sprite strike me as good targets. They're loud and have a history of contributions that are unhelpful to a PRCY trying to lay low. If PRCY converts them, we'll find them out in short order.

Merus
05-24-2010, 08:38 PM
~RULES CLARIFICATION~

If someone comes up clean on the second scan, are they still susceptible to infection that night? I remember one proposed variant allowing protection from the Thing to the player currently being scanned. Is that still the case?

I believe this isn't the case. PRCY can convert a player who was cleared on the second scan.

namelessentity
05-24-2010, 09:06 PM
Personally, I would like to scan a good player for this first one so I could trust them to provide an honest strategy for the second scan. Someone like Destil or Merus, and since destil already has one vote, I suggest Destil to be scanned

Like I said, I don't think we're going to hit with our first scan, but I would like to at least be able to trust the plans that are in development

Sprite
05-24-2010, 09:21 PM
Wait, why is this something we want to prevent?

Doublethink, mostly. If we have a bunch of players throwing themselves at the scan at once, it would be easy to hide in plain site, because PRCY wouldn't throw itself at the scan.

If you're right about the ruleset, then I'm fine with using the first scan for information, since the second scan is only useful to us if it kills a Thinger.

Merus
05-24-2010, 09:26 PM
Personally, I would like to scan a good player for this first one so I could trust them to provide an honest strategy for the second scan.

I don't want to do this. We need to be efficient with our scans if we want to win, and good players are ripe to be converted. Why scan them now, then scan them again when they're infected, when we can just scan them when they're infected on day 2 or 3? We can use that time to scan other players; we won't have a lot of information on patient zero, so the best way for us to catch them is to scan everyone.

Remember, there is only one PRCY right now. Most of us are clean.

Sprite
05-24-2010, 09:28 PM
Who did you have in mind? McClain?

McClain
05-24-2010, 09:29 PM
I believe this isn't the case. PRCY can convert a player who was cleared on the second scan.

Well if that's the case, I would probably just infect the second scanned if I were a PRCY. Which I certainly am not!

We could use a round-robin strategy, where-in were re-scan one of the previous days scans first to prevent PRCY from preying on the recently clean. But do it randomly enough that it's not always the same pick. Not at all if we have a good hunch.

When do we have to have our votes in for this cycle?

Who did you have in mind? McClain?

Oh, I see how it is, probe the new guy first!

locit
05-24-2010, 09:38 PM
A suggestion to add to Eddie's plan: we keep track of two people, above and below us as per his scrambled list. This creates overlap and, at least at early in the game, prevents a Thinger from abusing the list. If anyone could come up with further caveats to guard against any holes my suggestion leaves I think the plan is still a good one.

Actually, looking at them both, mightn't there be a way to combine the best elements of dwolfe's and Eddie's strategies?

Sprite
05-24-2010, 09:53 PM
We could use a round-robin strategy, where-in were re-scan one of the previous days scans first to prevent PRCY from preying on the recently clean.
...which would effectively give us one scan a day. No thanks.

dwolfe
05-24-2010, 10:33 PM
Wait. dwolfe? dwolfe is making sense? Well, alright. Sounds good; I think doing this will give the people who desire a little certainty in their life some comfort, it gives less good players a chance to participate, and it makes the first scan matter, considering finding a PRCY on the first scan doesn't count.

The only thing that concerns me is that it doesn't actually matter if PRCYs are manipulating us, because they can't get us to kill an innocent. All they can really do is waste our time.

Wasting our time is a winning condition for Things, buying them time to spread!

*A Dwolfe appears! Command?!*

I'm quite a reasonable scientist! It's people I hate.

...

Merus, I think you're the one to ask about this idea, and I'd like to hear other inputs, too.

All else being equal, it's better to have the VI chose the Scan target over the Thing, to prevent wastes of time.

We have one window of time where we could have an Verified Innocent act; the second half of the day, if and only if the scan finds an Innocent.

Can we use this to carry forward a truly random bit of information? Yes. (Use random.org to pick the next Scan 1 target from Eddie's numbered list, keep picking till a live person is selected, post your choice during the second half of the day).

Can we use this to carry forward an unbiased Scan target? Yes. (Have the Verified Innocent pick two Scan targets in order, with rationale, and use both).

However, unfortunately, the Things get to see this information. Is this a problem, though?

If a VI targets a Thing, there's nothing the Things can do, the target'll die the next day. If it's an innocent, the Things will either convert the target to prevent the strategy the next day (losing a Thing in the process) or leave it alone, giving us another VI from scan 1. Discussions on which targets to Scan 2 still yield information for future analysis.

As far as I can tell, it does not matter if the Things get this information.

......

Again, yes, there's flaws here. Lots. But, is there any way to transmit information without Things seeing it or knowing it? If the former VI is PRCY'ed overnight, they can lie and waste our Scans. Does that matter? Maybe not.

Is this totally dumb? It's basically us forming a communist party, complete with five-year plans of action (http://www.garethjones.org/soviet_articles/mixture_of_successes.htm) and a semi-random leader chosen by lots if we don't kill them instead, for being a Thing:

A TYPICAL STORY OF PRCY.

Dwolfe had a dream in which PRCY appeared to him.

"Hello, dwolfe! How are you?" asks PRCY.

"Oh, I’m fine," replies dwolfe.

"How is the spacecraft?"

"Oh, splendid,” says dwolfe. "You know, we have our Five-Day Plan now and our achievements are amazing."

"Really." says PRCY. "And what are you going to do when the Five-Day Plan is over?"

"Oh, we’ll have another Five-Day Plan."

Then PRCY crushes dwolfe by saying:

"By that time every man, woman, and child on the spaceship will have died and joined me, and you’ll be the only man left to carry out your Five-Day Plan."

Adam
05-24-2010, 10:35 PM
A suggestion to add to Eddie's plan: we keep track of two people, above and below us as per his scrambled list. This creates overlap and, at least at early in the game, prevents a Thinger from abusing the list. If anyone could come up with further caveats to guard against any holes my suggestion leaves I think the plan is still a good one.

I was planning on doing this anyways, because in the event that Shivam decides to accuse me of being the PRCY, I'm going to be able to intelligently decide if he's trying to deflect suspicion off himself instead of just saying NO U R.

I'm also leaning towards nominating Destil for the scan, though I don't want to jump the gun with a whole day remaining. Destil, since you're the vote leader, who are you looking at right now?

McClain
05-24-2010, 11:04 PM
...which would effectively give us one scan a day. No thanks.

We probably don't have enough time to establish a patern, but the idea is to make the infected think that we will mostly rescann, so we have two more probably clean crewmates when we do break patern and scan two new people.

But you are right, we don't have time to waste scans. So the question is, do we have any way to boost our odds that once scanned is still clean?

Umby
05-24-2010, 11:05 PM
Err, sorry guys, I was sleeping in the cargo bay. Not sure what I was doing there. So I missed all this discussion up in the upper deck.

I think I'll have to go through all this in the chat log. That'll take some time. Give me some tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime.

shivam
05-25-2010, 12:33 AM
So who goes under the ultraviolet lights first?

Destil
05-25-2010, 05:29 AM
You have Mafia experience in the only Mafia to win on TT so far, were infected without notice, and are a fairly good player, more or less. Would you like to be scanned tonight, or tomorrow?

I VOTE TO SCAN DESTIL

As a citizen I'd rather be scanned on day three or four. I feel like I have a giant target on my back, and to prevent myself from being converted in the early game I would like some insurance, because I think that the rules favor the citizens in the early game and I want to win. If you think I'm suggesting that I'm advertising my optimal strategy in order to be converted then you shouldn't scan me first today, because you lose your chance to have me converted and get me killed by the scan, forcing you to waste another scan later in the game to actually kill me if I'm a thing.

Now there are other reasons it may be a good idea to scan me first today. I won't be voting for me, because I don't have a brilliant plan that can win us the game and therefore I feel it's a waste to get myself scanned at this point.

On dwofe's plan: my issue with his plan is that there's a big disconnect. We loose the ability to use the second scan intelligently as a group. The fact is, right now we shouldn't be worried at all about the thing manipulating us. There's only one thing, unless someone truly is taking control of the game there's no danger of them manipulating us to waste scans today. And even dwolfe, who right now is making the biggest attempt at control of the game, isn't actually in control. He's proposed an idea and we're discussing it, which I like.

How about this: right now I have 15 allies on this ship and one enemy. In the post game last time someone mentioned how unfair it was that the mafia had 10 people bringing their heads together and working on ideas every night, and blamed the loss on that (I agree!).

So for today, let's all assume everyone else is on our side and work together as much as possible. If we actually do so the effect of the thing is minimal. And because there's almost no hidden information yet, we can potentially be very effective. Right now we have more brain power on this deck than we had in the m3 mafia and just as much missing information (one unknown role).

Sprite
05-25-2010, 06:33 AM
As a citizen I'd rather be scanned on day three or four. I feel like I have a giant target on my back, and to prevent myself from being converted in the early game I would like some insurance, because I think that the rules favor the citizens in the early game and I want to win.
Ah, man, you can't do that! I was going to do that!

I'm not assuming you're trying to be converted. I'm hoping no one here wants to be converted. It would ruin the narrative, you guys!
So for today, let's all assume everyone else is on our side and work together as much as possible. If we actually do so the effect of the thing is minimal. And because there's almost no hidden information yet, we can potentially be very effective. Right now we have more brain power on this deck than we had in the m3 mafia and just as much missing information (one unknown role).
This is a good point, and we still have over 120 hours before the first conversion. Let's use that time.

I RETRACT MY VOTE.

So then, I suppose what we need to do is figure out who the power players are, and how to deflect the Thing's attention away from those players. As you and Merus have pointed out, the more we dangle a scan over someone's head, with real and honest intention, the less desirable that target will be. What's the best way to make that happen, knowing PRCY can see everything we can?

Oops, time for work. Can't finish this post. Sorry!

Eddie
05-25-2010, 08:41 AM
I think our first scan is best used scanning whomever comes up with the 'best' strategy to try and follow. It's just as likely that a PRCY infected individual will throw out a strategy as anyone else, but the advantage is that we can know from day 1 whether the strategy is 'legit' or not.

Failing that, I like dwolfe's idea of getting the first scanned player to be responsible for picking the second person scanned.

Also, locit's idea to add to my plan (examine above AND below you) is a good one. Keep in mind that for PRCY, infecting a 'chain' of players isn't necessarily all that desirable; if we suspect as much we've got an easy list to go down.

- Eddie

Merus
05-25-2010, 09:04 AM
Wasting our time is a winning condition for Things, buying them time to spread!

Good point!

Merus, I think you're the one to ask about this idea, and I'd like to hear other inputs, too.

I feel like it's preventing the infected from messing with the vote by preventing anyone from messing with the vote, even if there's a good reason. I'm also really worried about any strategies that aren't guaranteed to win us the game where the infected don't have to do anything . As you astutely pointed out, wasting time costs us the game. We can't really afford to pick randomly. The hazard we run is not the infected messing with us: it's easier for them to do it if we have an ironclad strategy, as I demonstrated last game. They can't mess with us if we're skeptical and don't allow ourselves to be led. Remember that, when I'm eventually absorbed by the enemy. Don't let yourselves be led. Hell, if you don't know what to do, be petulant, it's not like you're going to get an innocent killed.

The other point is that the Verified Clean isn't as valuable as it seems; sure, it's nice, but they're easy to manipulate and no-one takes their hunches seriously anyway.

I do like the idea that the verified can put forward two names, though. I think you're right in that it's generally not worth the infected trying to do anything to the second name, which more or less confers protection on that person as long as we stick to it. We can play shell games there where we may or may not actually scan that second name, which gives us flexibility and allows us to be unpredictable.

As a citizen I'd rather be scanned on day three or four. I feel like I have a giant target on my back, and to prevent myself from being converted in the early game I would like some insurance.

Destil has the right of it: the best way to keep our biggest assets on side is to have their scan be imminent. If we can't stay clean all game, at least we can prevent us being used by PRCY.

So the question is, do we have any way to boost our odds that once scanned is still clean?

This might seem odd, but: scanning different people each day. Every day PRCY can convert a maximum of one confirmed clean, which means at least 50% of the scanned are going to be still clean. If they convert unscanned, that increases the odds. The trick, though, is that we can't quite scan everyone before PRCY wins, so we'll need to double back and discover infected in order to give us enough time to detect patient zero. We'll have enough information for that around day 4, I'd bet.

We probably won't be able to be sure of all our clean players, as PRCY's only power is to make our information decay. But patterns will emerge: we're not dealing with 15 identical petri dishes, we're dealing with 15 players of wildly varying value. Some players are going to be high-value targets for PRCY. Some are going to be liabilities (it has to be said). That information is going to inform how PRCY moves, and it has to inform how we move as well.

Sprite
05-25-2010, 09:08 AM
I think our first scan is best used scanning whomever comes up with the 'best' strategy to try and follow. It's just as likely that a PRCY infected individual will throw out a strategy as anyone else, but the advantage is that we can know from day 1 whether the strategy is 'legit' or not.

I like this idea, especially because you bring it up now, after there are already strategies on the table.

Has everyone weighed in on Eddie's plan? I'm still unsure of it, though locit's addendum definitely mitigates the worries I had. If everyone wants to do it I'll definitely follow through, whether I like it or not. But we need to decide Day One before the thread gets too long.

Destil
05-25-2010, 09:30 AM
I don't know that there's any plans so bad or so good that they're worth scanning for yet. Any thing putting forward a bad plan I think we can catch (or at least avoid) simply by having 15 sets of eyes looking at it. It's not really harmful for today to scan someone to validate a plan, but I'm going to again stress not setting our plans in stone for the rest of the game day 1. Any plan we make in public can It was bad for the citizens in M3 and we all know why I stopped trying to convince them of it. Moving into the mid-game we could use the first scan as a way to promote someone to 'acting captain' for a day without fear of being mislead.

Is it worth making an effort to scan everyone once until we find one thing? It makes them infecting people who have been cleared a better move, but it at least guarantees that we'll find the initial infected crew member. I don't think we need to stick to doing so blindly for the entire game, but for now my preference is to scan people who haven't been scanned already, especially with the second scan of the day where we can potentially get more scans. if we are doing any repeat scans it should be the first because we know that there's one person out there who is infected, until we do find our first thing.

Eddie
05-25-2010, 09:45 AM
I don't know that there's any plans so bad or so good that they're worth scanning for yet.

I look at it this way. Do you think someone who brings up a plan is:

1) less suspicious / less likely to be infected?
2) more suspicious / more likely to be infected?
3) not more or less suspicious / as good a chance of being infected as anyone else?

If your answer isn't 1, then why not clear that persons name AND ensure their plan is a good one? We get the unique opportunity to really 'double dip.'

- Eddie

Merus
05-25-2010, 10:03 AM
How do you propose to ensure that their plan is a good one? Clean citizens can easily put forward terrible plans - none of the rogues, with the possible exception of Brick, put forward a bad plan during M3. It just wasn't worth it when a citizen could easily do it for us and then we'd follow along going 'yep yep let's do this'. The trick is whether someone's trying to dismantle a good plan.

Eddie
05-25-2010, 10:17 AM
How do you propose to ensure that their plan is a good one? Clean citizens can easily put forward terrible plans - none of the rogues, with the possible exception of Brick, put forward a bad plan during M3. It just wasn't worth it when a citizen could easily do it for us and then we'd follow along going 'yep yep let's do this'. The trick is whether someone's trying to dismantle a good plan.

I think such thinking would paralyze us to accept any plan for either fear there might be manipulation (or that it could simply be bad).

There are two things I think are important to consider:

1) A 'bad' plan by a citizen is still more worthwhile than a 'bad' plan by the enemy mafia/PRCY/whatever.

2) as mentioned before, we have 14 other clean players who can point out flaws in a plan. Knowing the flaws may not prevent the enemy from trying to manipulate the results, but at least we know how they can manipulate such results.

- Eddoe

Sprite
05-25-2010, 10:26 AM
Is it worth making an effort to scan everyone once until we find one thing? It makes them infecting people who have been cleared a better move, but it at least guarantees that we'll find the initial infected crew member. I don't think we need to stick to doing so blindly for the entire game, but for now my preference is to scan people who haven't been scanned already, especially with the second scan of the day where we can potentially get more scans. if we are doing any repeat scans it should be the first because we know that there's one person out there who is infected, until we do find our first thing.

I'm a bit worried about this plan. It helps us build a semi-stable bloc while guaranteeing PRCY gets infections that we won't catch for some time. If PRCY follows our bread trail, 50% of the already scanned will be infected, but only one of the not-yet-scanned will be infected. Do you think finding Patient Zero should be that much of a priority?

If we do follow this plan, how often should we double back on our scans to try and trick PRCY?

McClain
05-25-2010, 11:25 AM
Do you think finding Patient Zero should be that much of a priority?

The way this plan was going, I was starting to think that finding Patient Zero was a condition for winning, but that's not the case, is it?

It sounds like there is a growing faction between the "power" players and the "unknowns." As I'm an "unknown" and would like to not die horribly, I'll go ahead and say that you can scan me first if you'd like. I'll withhold my vote until I see where the plans start to go.

I will say that any "path" we come up with now will only lead the Things along behind us. The best plan will figure out a way to provide a better offense. Sacrifices might have to be made. If the thing is as intelligent as we think, it'll go after the higher ranking officers with command experience. Our best bet might be to simply say we will scan a Power player and an Unknown each day, but leave it at that as to not tip our hand too much.

Nodal
05-25-2010, 11:32 AM
I dunno, everyone's plan seems to be "just pick someone randomly" on Day 1, and all I can see being suspicious is the person I've already voted. If you guys want somebody for the first scan, pick him!

Eddie
05-25-2010, 11:39 AM
I'm of two minds for strategy in this game:

1) scan at random. We can use a site like invisible castle (http://invisiblecastle.com/) to ensure that there is no manipulation in the dice rolling, and use that as the basis of who to scan. Pros: completely un-manipulable. Cons: completely un-manipulable.

2) Try and figure out patterns. Doing so requires everyone to be under scrutiny, not just vocal players like Destil. My modified suggestion to follow a 'chain' of scrutiny is a good step in this direction I believe.

We can of course, combine the two approaches by randomly scanning for can #1 and being more selective for scan 2.

I'm passably okay with voting for Rai (he's as good a choice as anyone else) but my top choice would be Bongo Bill, since he hasn't posted yet.

- Eddie

McClain
05-25-2010, 11:42 AM
I don't know if not posting yet is a sign of guilt. I think it's a sign of not checking his PM to know the game has started. I think the Thing is here and vocal.

Umby
05-25-2010, 12:15 PM
I feel that at this point, scanning randomly seems like the best idea. We have no information, and once we do, we can start formulating a different plan. Again, at this point, there's nothing we can do but vote randomly.

shivam
05-25-2010, 12:16 PM
Who hasn't spoken yet? Just Bongo?

Honestly, though, the virus has every reason to speak, since not speaking is easily the most suspicious tactic here.

I think that while Day 1 is the best possible chance to win, it's also the least likely, since we have no knowledge, and we're effectively shooting blanks. I still hold that at least one verification scan is necessary.

Destil
05-25-2010, 01:27 PM
The basics of my patient zero plan, which I'm now officially proposing for review:
A) We need to kill all things to win.
B) If we scan everyone we will hit the thing that was infected at the start.
C) If we get the thing with our second scan we get an extra scan.

Therefore, I propose we never use the second scan as a repeat until we find a thing. Until that point we can be sure that a 'scan everyone' approach will eventually get us a thing, which gets us another scan and some information. The danger of the things infesting someone we previously verified we should be able to with the first scan.

Rai
05-25-2010, 01:36 PM
On the other hand, that also leaves the Thing able to maneuver the scan so that it's either last to go, or that it goes through late enough that it dying doesn't make much of a difference. Plus, it then doesn't have to worry about picking a target, we've given it a list of safe ones to choose from.

I mean, it's great if we chance on it early, but I wouldn't say that those odds are in our favor.

Eddie
05-25-2010, 01:51 PM
The basics of my patient zero plan, which I'm now officially proposing for review:
A) We need to kill all things to win.
B) If we scan everyone we will hit the thing that was infected at the start.
C) If we get the thing with our second scan we get an extra scan.

Therefore, I propose we never use the second scan as a repeat until we find a thing. Until that point we can be sure that a 'scan everyone' approach will eventually get us a thing, which gets us another scan and some information. The danger of the things infesting someone we previously verified we should be able to with the first scan.

So how do you use the first scan then? I'm not trying to knock your plan, I'm simply trying to figure out how you determine who you use the first scan on.

- Eddie

spineshark
05-25-2010, 02:10 PM
I would be wary of trying to lock into anything at any point, but especially today. We're never going to know less than we do right now. Meanwhile, going "Hey! Let's all commit to this!" is, at best, simplistic baiting.

shivam
05-25-2010, 02:15 PM
That post pretty much seals my vote.

I nominate spineshark for scanning

spineshark
05-25-2010, 02:24 PM
Fine. I dare you.

spineshark
05-25-2010, 02:28 PM
Seriously, I have nothing to lose. But if I get picked, I'll come out clean...and you should still by no means trust me.

Adam
05-25-2010, 02:30 PM
The basics of my patient zero plan, which I'm now officially proposing for review:
A) We need to kill all things to win.

Well, yeah.

B) If we scan everyone we will hit the thing that was infected at the start.

The problem with that is once we hit day 2, it doesn't matter who the original Thing was. There is no discrimination among Thing-kind, and no way to tell when they were converted. We're going to have some difficult conversations after catching a Thing later on in the game about how long we believe they've been feeding us lies.

C) If we get the thing with our second scan we get an extra scan.

Therefore, I propose we never use the second scan as a repeat until we find a thing. Until that point we can be sure that a 'scan everyone' approach will eventually get us a thing, which gets us another scan and some information. The danger of the things infesting someone we previously verified we should be able to with the first scan.

Which gives the Thing great incentive to infect everyone who gets the second scan. With this plan, unless we repeat every day's second scan target the for the next day's first scan, we're essentially telling the Thing, "hey, we're not going to bother checking on this guy for awhile."

I don't think that someone being previously verified clean means that we should keep them from scan 2. If you have enough evidence that they might have been infected, then it might be a better idea of put them in a place that could give us an additional scan.

I agree that scan 2 is a more powerful tool, but I don't want that to mean we're going be lazy about scan 1. Now that I think about it, I can see a smart Thing strategy might be to throw one of their own under the bus for a scan 1, if they think it'll save them from a scan 2.

Eddie
05-25-2010, 03:33 PM
We're wasting way too much time running around in circles on this. Here's what I propose:

1. The first scan of the day is to be determined semi-randomly, barring some very good reason to choose someone at not-random. The people who can randomly checked are drawn from the following:a) The very first scan (i.e. this one) is either randomly from the entire list, or picked by plurality. We may choose to repeat this on day 2.
b) People who are picked for the second scan of a day

2. The second scan will be more deliberate. We can use digests, suspicions, whatever, but in order to increase our chances at hitting Things, we make a pass over everyone once before repeating their name in this phase. This doesn't disqualify us randomly picking them in scan 1 the next day. Once we've gone through the entire list we once again go through the player base one by one.

3. Players, keep an eye on the players both above AND below you on this list. You're responsible for keeping a close eye on their actions; do you find something suspicious? Let us know. This doesn't mean you should be exclusively on them. It merely means that when they post, you should be scrutinizing them. I explain more about how this works here (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=767610&postcount=52), with the addition of Locit's idea to look at the individuals above AND below you:

Destil (repeated from below)
Bongo Bill
Locit
Merus
Rai
dwolfe
Sprite
Nodal
Umby
Eddie
Shivam
Adam
Spineshark
McClain142
Eirikr
namelessentity
Destil
Bongo Bill (repeated from above).

So I'm keeping an eye on Umby and Shivam, Shivam is keeping an eye on me and Adam, Adam is keeping an eye on Shivam and Spineshark, etc.

My hope with these plans are as follows:

1) PRCY cannot reasonably ensure that anyone he picks will not be scanned the following day. The first scan gives us a chance to randomly pick someone we've already cleared, while the second scan allows us to pick someone new (until we've gone through all the scans of course). This means there is never a point where PRCY can positively ensure someone he/she chooses will potentially not be scanned.

2) It keeps everyone involved, and no one escapes scrutiny.

Thoughts, modifications?

- Eddie

Destil
05-25-2010, 05:25 PM
So how do you use the first scan then? I'm not trying to knock your plan, I'm simply trying to figure out how you determine who you use the first scan on.

- Eddie

Suspicion? Someone we want to clear and have as a verified crew member? Random numbers? It's not part of this plan... I suppose plan is a bit of an overstatement, then. Idea, perhaps?
I would be wary of trying to lock into anything at any point, but especially today. We're never going to know less than we do right now. Meanwhile, going "Hey! Let's all commit to this!" is, at best, simplistic baiting.

I pretty much agree with this, so it should be kept in mind that if circumstances are right and it's clearly a good move I'd abandon the idea. Let's call it a guideline.
The problem with that is once we hit day 2, it doesn't matter who the original Thing was. There is no discrimination among Thing-kind, and no way to tell when they were converted. We're going to have some difficult conversations after catching a Thing later on in the game about how long we believe they've been feeding us lies.
The reason I'm looking to find the original thing is because I know I can. If we scan everyone once we will find them. This is also the reason we abandon this as soon as we find a thing, not only will we have more info but it will invalidate the knowledge that the first thing is still out there.

Look at it like this: Until we find a thing, we know there's at least one thing among the unscanned. We don't have any information on the things created after the first day, they can be from the scanned or unscanned population. My idea basically comes down to picking the person we think is most likely a thing from that group for every second scan. There's nothing we can do to stop the thing from converting someone as soon as they're scanned, and if we suspect that we still have another scan we can use.

How often do we think we'll want to do two repeat scans in the same day? I can't see that as being very likely, especially in the early game. And as the second scan is pretty much the 'killing scan' (i.e. we can't use it to get a verified standard), we don't loose a lot. People who we want verified we just scan using the first scan. If we think they're that valuable at one point we'll most likely not want to point a killing scan at them later, because they would still be valuable, right?

locit
05-25-2010, 05:52 PM
Thoughts, modifications?
I've itemized my thoughts into sections below for simplicity. Hopefully it's helpful for others referring to my questions/suggestions.

A1) I think this plan is the best available given the scant information we have and endorse it as our strategy until there is reason enough to alter it.
Q) Given that we do adopt the above strategy, and since this is my Very First Mission, sirs, I'd like to know what kind of write-ups we'll be doing on the people above and below us. Is there a set format used elsewhere that I'm not aware of?

B1) I'd also like to suggest we have the first confirmed clean re-randomize the list. This will avoid any accusations later in the game that the numbering was in any way ordered clandestinely with an intent to help PRCY spread.
B2) Should we adopt the addendum I suggest in B1, we could potentially have subsequent confirmed cleans re-randomize later in the game if we suspect the list's oversight function has been compromised. The disadvantages of doing this too often would include:
-the potential for a person doing a good job of monitoring someone being "taken off the case" so to speak.
-the possibility of encouraging paranoia thanks to constant change in monitoring duties. This could be counterproductive in a situation where we need to keep cool heads.
That said there would be some advantages:
+We absolutely need a healthy level of skepticism and critical thinking to make any sort of logical progress, and randomizing watch duties could help familiarize everyone with everyone else's habits.
+It could prevent PRCYs from developing an infection plan that could undermine the oversight provided by the list. This could be helpful if infection spreads, but...

...as with any randomizing element it could play into PRCY's hands by chance. I'd like to hear others' thoughts on this as a possible additional element. I'm especially open to input on my last "+" bullet point. Does randomizing have the desired effect I'm describing here, or is there a way around it that I'm missing?

To sum up my basic approach: we need to have as much out in the open as possible. There's no way to hide anything we say or do from a PRCY (to my knowledge, see question below), so the best option is to lay out a plan that is difficult to corrupt even with full knowledge of said plan. Randomization, to my knowledge, is the best method for introducing an uncorruptible element into our strategy at this stage. This is why I favor Eddie's plan and made the above suggestions.

QUESTION FOR PAUL: What is the protocol for communicating outside of the thread, if any? I'm under the impression that we cannot message one another about the goings on of the Upper Deck in any way as clean crew members, but it seems like some form of communication out of the public eye would be necessary for the PRCYs to decide on a victim each night. Am I correct, and if so, what is the extent of these communiques?

Destil
05-25-2010, 05:56 PM
I've been considering ways to generate random numbers in a secure way. One option is to have everyone generate a seed for a preselected algorithm: if it was up to everyone to contribute one digit it would be far too chaotic for the things to have any real control over. The main issue is it would be time consuming.

Paul le Fou
05-25-2010, 05:57 PM
Current Votes:

Rai: 2
Nodal
McClain1472

Sprite: 1
Destil

Destil: 1
namelessentity

spineshark: 1
shivam

You have... 14 hours before the first scan goes through.

Paul le Fou
05-25-2010, 06:00 PM
QUESTION FOR PAUL: What is the protocol for communicating outside of the thread, if any? I'm under the impression that we cannot message one another about the goings on of the Upper Deck in any way as clean crew members, but it seems like some form of communication out of the public eye would be necessary for the PRCYs to decide on a victim each night. Am I correct, and if so, what is the extent of these communiques?

For crew members, communication to the game is limited to the thread - don't talk about it with your fellow crew members in other threads, PMs, AIM, etc. (You can talk to people who aren't playing, I suppose.) Also there's kind of a standing gentleman's agreement not to read the other thread, but besides asking you not to I'm not like enforcing it or anything 'cause that's dumb.

The Things, like the mafia before them, can communicate with each other - only during night phase - in a special chat we set up in google wave.

McClain
05-25-2010, 06:33 PM
Hmmm, there doesn't seem to be any good strategy for the first scan, since we don't really know what we are up against yet.

I vote we scan Rai first. He's saying foolish contradictory things.

This is the closest thing to logic I've heard yet applied specifically to a person, so for lack of a better plan, and to give someone an edge and move things along, I VOTE THAT WE SCAN RAI.

dwolfe
05-25-2010, 07:00 PM
*emerges from the lab, billowing clowds of white gas at his feet and strobe lighting giving an ominous backlighting*

I vote to scan McClain142.

He's the first person to second a scanning vote. It's a 'me too' vote, very defensible logic that doesn't get anyone thinking about you. If he's clean, I trust that same logical mind to pick the second Scan of the day.

*evil laughter, vanishes back into the lab*

Umby
05-25-2010, 07:13 PM
I vote to scan Shivam, just to point that he started the spineshark train (not like it means much, but still...)

Anyway, I'll keep my eye on Eddie and Nodal. Seems like a hard task the former, but at least a little less hard on the latter. I hope to have more detailed posts than I have been, but right now I just don't feel like getting too technical. Maybe tomorrow, when we have more information, I'll start talking about things I've thought about.

McClain
05-25-2010, 07:25 PM
Voting seems light so far. I say anyone who doesn't step up and cast a vote goes straight out the airlock. No sense wasting a turn in the Probulator (http://theinfosphere.org/Probulator)for someone who we know (probably) is a PRCY.

Vote or Die!

Sprite
05-25-2010, 07:43 PM
He's the first person to second a scanning vote. It's a 'me too' vote, very defensible logic that doesn't get anyone thinking about you.

Actually, the first "me too" vote was namelessentity, but you probably didn't notice because I retracted my vote for Destil.

Anyway, I guess I'll VOTE TO SCAN RAI. He doesn't seem a likely conversion target at the moment and could remix our "buddy list" just fine, I think. If that's what we want to do, I mean. Are we doing the buddy list thing? I also don't think we need him to drive the second scan today, as we're still fairly strong in that area.

Where the heck is Bango Bob? He hasn't been on TT in three days. I hope he's okay.

McClain
05-25-2010, 07:44 PM
Where the heck is Bango Bob? He hasn't been on TT in three days. I hope he's okay.

the thing got him!

Merus
05-25-2010, 07:49 PM
I figure, day 1, anyone's as good as anyone else. So I'm going to picccccck... Rai. Apparently I'm supposed to be keeping an eye on him anyway.

shivam
05-25-2010, 07:55 PM
I vote to scan Shivam, just to point that he started the spineshark train (not like it means much, but still...)

Anyway, I'll keep my eye on Eddie and Nodal. Seems like a hard task the former, but at least a little less hard on the latter. I hope to have more detailed posts than I have been, but right now I just don't feel like getting too technical. Maybe tomorrow, when we have more information, I'll start talking about things I've thought about.

feel free. i point out that i volunteered to be scanned almost immediately.

in interests of moving things along, though, I change my vote to RAI.

locit
05-25-2010, 07:56 PM
I look at it this way. Do you think someone who brings up a plan is:

1) less suspicious / less likely to be infected?
2) more suspicious / more likely to be infected?
3) not more or less suspicious / as good a chance of being infected as anyone else?

If your answer isn't 1, then why not clear that persons name AND ensure their plan is a good one? We get the unique opportunity to really 'double dip.'
I can't come up with any reasonable counterargument to this, so I vote to scan Eddie. He's contributed the most to a potentially effective strategy that can be modified as we go. We need a solid plan, and to have that we need to establish that the one who came up with the plan is clean. This will give us a solid base to build on for the next scanning cycle and possibly help prevent the kind of factions that disorganized planning can lead to (not to mention it will counter needless paranoia that might arise after a few cycles).

Thus, a solid plan proposed by a VC would give us the kind of safe rallying point we lack right now, and we'd still have a scan left afterward. Plus he's as likely to be the PRCY as anyone given the low odds of finding a Thinger on our first scan. So let's scan Eddie.

Destil
05-25-2010, 08:00 PM
I don't actually like leaning harder on a plan because a citizen came up with it. The plan should really be able to stand or fall by its own merits if it's actually good. I don't see how Eddie being a thing would undermine the actual logic the plan is based on?

Wish I had a cool bandwagon to ride like you Rai guys, though. It's a big deck and I gotta walk everywhere.

locit
05-25-2010, 08:10 PM
I don't actually like leaning harder on a plan because a citizen came up with it. The plan should really be able to stand or fall by its own merits if it's actually good. I don't see how Eddie being a thing would undermine the actual logic the plan is based on?
I'm not suggesting we lean harder on it - I think the plan he suggested is fine based on its own merits. But without a Verifiably Clean start there's still going to be a modicum of doubt attached to the structure of the strategy we're using to root out PRCYs. That doubt, even if irrational, could be cultivated and abused to hinder our progress. I want to at least prevent that scenario as soon as possible.

Merus
05-25-2010, 08:14 PM
But without a Verifiably Clean start there's still going to be a modicum of doubt attached to the structure of the strategy we're using to root out PRCYs. That doubt, even if irrational, could be cultivated and abused to hinder our progress. I want to at least prevent that scenario as soon as possible.

But what about the doubt that the PRCYs see through the plan and aren't saying anything?

We need to get used to doubt.

Destil
05-25-2010, 08:18 PM
But what about the doubt that the PRCYs see through the plan and aren't saying anything?

We need to get used to doubt.

Exactly. Last time the only reason I shut up about our big plan when I saw it as bad was because I was converted and I wanted a bad plan in place.

Nodal
05-25-2010, 08:25 PM
I don't actually like leaning harder on a plan because a citizen came up with it. The plan should really be able to stand or fall by its own merits if it's actually good. I don't see how Eddie being a thing would undermine the actual logic the plan is based on?

Wish I had a cool bandwagon to ride like you Rai guys, though. It's a big deck and I gotta walk everywhere.

The only reason bandwagoning was suspicious in Mafia was because there were multiple Mafioso and they could join together for a lynch. On day one of Thing, there's only one Thing! What bandwagon could they possibly affect?

McClain
05-25-2010, 08:25 PM
I trust no one. Even if someone passes a scan, they could just get infected that night. I would call that almost probable. Being VC for a day gets you a degree of trust, and that trust puts a bulls-eye on your back. The only thing you can trust in this game is that a VC has no motivation in the second pick of the day.

Now, once we start to get lucky on a scan or two, we can try to figure out what kind of PRCY a person would make. Would they go after Power Players or stay on the fringe? Attack the clean scans or try to stay ahead of us? That might help us find the other infected.

Rai
05-25-2010, 08:25 PM
Man, on the one hand, I know this isn't really going to do anything to me.

On the other hand, if I'm chosen, this is going to place extra pressure on me for the next two days since I'll be the only confirmed innocent and that's pressure I'd rather not have on me, even if I'm only putting it on myself.

The worst part is, I really want to make an argument for putting a scan to better use, but I can't. My posts haven't been the most coherent, much less informative or useful, and I don't have any hunches on anyone else. I'm fairly certain the Thing has already posted, but who am I to say?

Anyway, tl;dr: The vote's being wasted on me, but it'd probably be wasted on anyone else as well. At least I'm not being put up for the more important second scan.

McClain
05-25-2010, 08:30 PM
Anyway, tl;dr: The vote's being wasted on me, but it'd probably be wasted on anyone else as well. At least I'm not being put up for the more important second scan.

Ah, but as a VC (you claim!) you will be relied on more for the second pick. Not as big for the first pick, but once the PRCYs start to multiply, we'll really want that second pick to hit.

Destil
05-25-2010, 08:31 PM
The only reason bandwagoning was suspicious in Mafia was because there were multiple Mafioso and they could join together for a lynch. On day one of Thing, there's only one Thing! What bandwagon could they possibly affect?

Oh, it's not really a bad thing here. I just find the mob mentality of the game fascinating, always have.

Rai
05-25-2010, 08:33 PM
Ah, but as a VC (you claim!) you will be relied on more for the second pick. Not as big for the first pick, but once the PRCYs start to multiply, we'll really want that second pick to hit.

No pressure, right?

Eddie
05-25-2010, 08:38 PM
Hey, can we do me a favor?

Can we stop talking about the auto-lynch as a bad plan? I know many of you percieve it as such, but as I mentioned in the main thread, I completely disagree that it was a bad strategy. However, I don't really think this is the time or place to be arguing it's merits, but if you keep ragging on it as a bad strategy I'm going to have to perserve my honor!

- Eddie

Adam
05-25-2010, 09:35 PM
I've been trying to think up a strategy to try and use, here's the best two I could think of:

1) Auto-lynch the scanner ah ha ha ha. ha.

Hey, can we do me a favor?

Can we stop talking about the auto-lynch as a bad plan?


Hm. A little inconsistent, don't you think? You can't have it both ways, unless you're trying to confuse us. Maybe like something a bad guy would do?

I'm kind of suspicious, so therefore:

I vote to scan Destil

I sat down and pored over Destil's strategy, and I finally figured out what he was saying. The weakness I see is that if we have a string of unlucky guesses, the Thing now has a pool of potential victims that are essentially immune to half of our scans. Also, I'm concerned that once we do find a Thing, Destil won't have to worry about inconsistencies if he is later found guilty.

What I'm saying here is: say Destil is the Thing right now, but we wait a few days to scan him, as he asked. Once we know he's infected, we can't really go back and try to see when he was turned, because his initial strategy has already evaporated into dust.

If we supposed that he were turned by the Thing, then he had already committed to a hands-off approach that could possibly benefit the Thing, so his story wouldn't likely change. If he were the Thing from day 1, then he has successfully covered his tracks.

McClain
05-25-2010, 11:11 PM
I vote to scan Destil

I sat down and pored over Destil's strategy, and I finally figured out what he was saying. The weakness I see is that if we have a string of unlucky guesses, the Thing now has a pool of potential victims that are essentially immune to half of our scans. Also, I'm concerned that once we do find a Thing, Destil won't have to worry about inconsistencies if he is later found guilty.

What I'm saying here is: say Destil is the Thing right now, but we wait a few days to scan him, as he asked. Once we know he's infected, we can't really go back and try to see when he was turned, because his initial strategy has already evaporated into dust.

If we supposed that he were turned by the Thing, then he had already committed to a hands-off approach that could possibly benefit the Thing, so his story wouldn't likely change. If he were the Thing from day 1, then he has successfully covered his tracks.

That ... kind of makes a lot of sense. Dang. Well, I'm not going to change my vote right now, but if others want to go down this path, I would probably jump on board. Or we could always make him the second scan, since we get two before the first night, night?

Okay, yeah, second vote is on deck for Destil until further notice. Get ready for it.

Bongo Bill
05-26-2010, 01:43 AM
I was out of town, and then Mario Galaxy 2 happened. Did we find a Thing yet?

I'm going to go read this thread now.

Paul le Fou
05-26-2010, 01:55 AM
Current Votes:

Rai: 5
Nodal
McClain1472
Sprite
Merus
shivam

Destil: 2
namelessentity
Adam

Sprite: 2
Destil
Bongo Bill

McClain421: 1
dwolfe

shivam: 1
Umby

Eddie: 1
locit

You have... 7 hours before the first scan goes through.

Bongo Bill
05-26-2010, 02:10 AM
So soon? I can't handle the pressure!

Random.org tells me to vote for Sprite. Not that it will make a difference this late in the day when anyone with eyes to see can see it'll be Rai, but it's the principle of the thing.

Do you see what I did there. I worked in an oblique reference to the title of the game.

McClain
05-26-2010, 02:30 AM
McClain1472
McClain421

You can just call me McClain, if you like. The numbers are a holdover from my AIM days. :)

Destil
05-26-2010, 02:44 AM
Hey, can we do me a favor?

Can we stop talking about the auto-lynch as a bad plan?

I suppose if I ever bring up the comparison again I'll make it a point to say it's something I considered a bad plan, then.

Eddie
05-26-2010, 06:11 AM
Deal.

I think Rai has posted a reasonable enough defense that the likelihood of him being PRCY is unlikely. Let's take the small gamble and switch to someone else. I agree with what Adam wrote so,

I vote to scan Destil.

Hm. A little inconsistent, don't you think? You can't have it both ways, unless you're trying to confuse us. Maybe like something a bad guy would do?

You see, the first time was me being sarcastic, hence the hidden nervous laugh.

- Eddie

dwolfe
05-26-2010, 06:23 AM
I think Rai has posted a reasonable enough defense that the likelihood of him being PRCY is unlikely. Let's take the small gamble and switch to someone else. I agree with what Adam wrote so,

I change my vote to destil

It's clear no one else thought McClain was likely, and someone pointed out that he was the second bandwagon vote overall (I went by Paul's first summary of votes). I'm tempted to vote for Sprite for posting double the posts of everyone else, but destil or Rai are the only two likely to win the Scan at this point in time, with only a couple hours left.

Adam
05-26-2010, 08:44 AM
You see, the first time was me being sarcastic, hence the hidden nervous laugh.

That's cool. That was me being sarcastic, as well.

Paul le Fou
05-26-2010, 08:56 AM
Final Votes:

Rai: 5
Nodal
McClain273
Sprite
Merus
shivam

Destil: 4
namelessentity
Adam
Eddie
dwolfe

Sprite: 1
Destil
Bongo Bill

shivam: 1
Umby

Eddie: 1
locit

Decided!

Maybe it was because the disaster was still sinking in, or they were distracted by the repairs they also had to make. Or maybe the knowledge that one among them wanted nothing more than to bite their arms off at the elbow. Whatever it was, the crew stranded on the Upper Deck was restless and worried.

Computer?
Here, Boss.
Any ideas on who to scan?
Did you find the Thing yet?
No.
Then no. Tough time? Want to talk about it?
It just seems like everyone has an idea about who to scan, but they're all different and none of them make any sense.
Don't worry boss, it's Day 1. Things will pick up.
Day 1 of what?
...of the accident?
I'm not sure what you're getting at.
So looks like Rai's in the lead.
Oh, yeah. Let's get this over with, Rai. You got nothing to be afraid of, right?
"Hell no. I can't wait to get scanned! Let's do this!"

*Ponk*
Sample obtained.
Scanning process initiated.
Oh, wow. That's a lot of blood. You ok?
"-ALMIGHTY WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT THING WHY THE-"
Yeah, let's get some bandages. Did this thing get damaged in the explosion?
"No, it's always like that. Old model."
Huh. Well. I guess there's a little bit to be afraid of.
Scan complete.


Rai is clean, boss.

Votes are wiped. The next phase begins now.

Nodal
05-26-2010, 08:58 AM
Alright Rai, what are your thoughts?

Merus
05-26-2010, 09:09 AM
The weakness I see is that if we have a string of unlucky guesses, the Thing now has a pool of potential victims that are essentially immune to half of our scans.

If we have a string of unlucky scans, we're up shit creek without a paddle no matter what strategy we used. We have, I think, 7 days to find an infected before we lose.

What I'm saying here is: say Destil is the Thing right now, but we wait a few days to scan him, as he asked. Once we know he's infected, we can't really go back and try to see when he was turned, because his initial strategy has already evaporated into dust.

Destil is smart enough, if he is turned, to cover his tracks. Again, doubt. The reason to scan Destil is to kill him if he's infected so that PRCY can't make use of him. We're probably not going to be able to work out until later on what day he must have been turned.

Remember, Destil most likely will be turned. As, most likely, will I. If you want to win, you need to kill us or ensure that PRCY never finds it productive to turn us. Don't bother ensuring we're clean at the start of the game. (In any case, we're agreeing on strategy, so I think it's unlikely that one of us is misleading you.)

Merus
05-26-2010, 09:11 AM
Paul: I recall there was discussion that, if we found infected, we'd find out on what day they were turned. Was that ever part of the rules, or was that someone else's idea?

Umby
05-26-2010, 09:15 AM
Well, I'm sorry for Rai's lack of blood, and I really don't want to be scanned now, but I guess it has to be done for posterity, eh?

I have no new ideas, really. Let's sit back and wait for Rai.

Destil
05-26-2010, 10:05 AM
I have an idea.

I vote to scan Umby.

Because if he's the thing we'll kill him via scanning, and we should always be looking for new ways to kill Umby.

namelessentity
05-26-2010, 10:22 AM
Sorry guys, was out of town for a day. Had I been here I would have taken back my Destil vote. You are right in that your scan is better used days later when you have the chance to be turned and not to verify you probabilistic crewmanship.

Umby
05-26-2010, 11:00 AM
Well, I have a problem with that. That's exactly what the Thing would like us to do, spend your scans unwisely and just on a whim! But isn't that what we're doing anyway?

Scan me if you want. I'm not voting for myself, though.

dwolfe
05-26-2010, 11:35 AM
Remember, Destil most likely will be turned. As, most likely, will I. If you want to win, you need to kill us or ensure that PRCY never finds it productive to turn us. Don't bother ensuring we're clean at the start of the game.

It's a trap!

I vote to scan Merus.

shivam
05-26-2010, 11:39 AM
Glad Rai is clean. We now have, for today at the least, a bloc starter, and for tomorrow, a guaranteed thing.

I vote DESTIL for scan 2

Rai
05-26-2010, 11:43 AM
Hey guys, I wouldn't mind if you held off on votes until I've had time to go through. I want to go through what little we have. I think I'm going to really suggest we follow Eddie's plan of following others, with the caveat that we all pay at least some attention to everyone.

That said, I told you all so. And I'll be back with more later.

dwolfe
05-26-2010, 12:20 PM
Hey guys, I wouldn't mind if you held off on votes until I've had time to go through. I want to go through what little we have. I think I'm going to really suggest we follow Eddie's plan of following others, with the caveat that we all pay at least some attention to everyone.

That said, I told you all so. And I'll be back with more later.

I'm voting so you know my opinion, and in case I'm not back at the end of the day; I'll follow MY PLAN, not Eddie's, of voting whatever you choose when you make your vote.

Rai
05-26-2010, 12:33 PM
Fair enough, and realized sometime after I made my post that it's likely we won't hit a plurality of votes, as we might have if we were dealing with more than one Thing.

So uh, nevermind me I guess? And when I said Eddie's plan, I meant his post watching bits, where everyone is especially responsible for others. That's the plan I meant. Or, so I don't keep screwing things up, part 3 of this post (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=768329&postcount=107).

Destil
05-26-2010, 01:17 PM
Well, I have a problem with that. That's exactly what the Thing would like us to do, spend your scans unwisely and just on a whim! But isn't that what we're doing anyway?

Well of course that's not the real reason; it's just delicious irony.

My reasons are as follows:

He's a bad enough conversion target in the early game that I'm not worried that he'll be gobbled up after being shown a crewmember. Even as a double-think ploy.

He hasn't done anything that makes him stand out in my mind as clean, and no one else has done anything particularly egregious to stand out as the thing.

That said I could be convinced to vote for someone else still fairly easily.

Do you want to randomize the order on Eddie's list Rai, since we know we can trust you?

Bongo Bill
05-26-2010, 02:42 PM
Hmm, do I get a new random number, or stick with the old one?

What about Eddie's "everybody watch the person above and below you" idea? Not seeing much discussion about it. I think that kind of exposes us to a risk (say they set up three Things in a row) but it would help to make sure everyone's being watched. (This is significant to me because one of the guys adjacent to me on Eddie's list just got tested.)

Adam
05-26-2010, 02:45 PM
I love the idea of Eddie's list, with the above and below addendum. This way, not only do we have two sets of eyes on each person, when the voting starts getting hot and heavy, we won't necessarily have to go and redigest everything the candidates have done (of course, the more Things we have, the more we'll have to watch for bias).

shivam
05-26-2010, 02:48 PM
I love the idea of Eddie's list, with the above and below addendum. This way, not only do we have two sets of eyes on each person, when the voting starts getting hot and heavy, we won't necessarily have to go and redigest everything the candidates have done (of course, the more Things we have, the more we'll have to watch for bias).

/upraised eyebrow
that's exactly what a thing would say. i'm watching you, kid. don't think i'm not....

Eddie
05-26-2010, 03:43 PM
/upraised eyebrow
that's exactly what a thing would say. i'm watching you, kid. don't think i'm not....

You better, he's next to you on my list.

Although we should make a new list, one created by Rai.

- Eddie

Sprite
05-26-2010, 03:47 PM
Although we should make a new list, one created by Rai.

I second this.

Is there anyone out there who is unwilling to watch their "buddies?"

Adam
05-26-2010, 04:09 PM
/upraised eyebrow
that's exactly what a thing would say. i'm watching you, kid. don't think i'm not....

Ignorance is strength! Freedom is slavery!

But seriously, I see how you can read something into what I said, but as much as I'd like to believe we're all going to watch everything that everyone has ever done in this game (or even past games), we need to focus on something, at least. How about as a concession to your naughty suspicions, if one of our watchees is on the block, then we agree to make the digest ourselves? We'll still have two people covering each person, so we can look at the two digests, and even possibly tease out inconsistencies from those.

I don't really want to spend hours of my time doing that, but it'd not only bridge the gap between the information you'd get from watching everyone, versus only watching your "buddies", but gives us a potential weapon against the Things (yes, I realize that both the digesters could be Things, as per Shivam's suspicions. I am at no point arguing that the rest of us should fall asleep at the wheel).

I could even keep a constantly updated digest on each of my neighbors, although if one of them does end up biting the bullet, then I'm going to have a hell of a time going through the history of their replacement (even if we asked scan targets to post their two digests, if they're Thing, then we can't trust their work).

namelessentity
05-26-2010, 04:50 PM
Since he is the name above me I feel it is my duty to inform people that Eirikr hasn't posted yet. Just a point of order, but if he doesn't get something out this phase I think The Powers That Be are going to be particularly vengeful.

locit
05-26-2010, 05:14 PM
/upraised eyebrow
that's exactly what a thing would say. i'm watching you, kid. don't think i'm not....
Shivam I swear if you turn out to be the Thinger, which frankly you're in the running for based on posts like this that are void of evidence lists and high on paranoia, this will go down as the worst doubt-casting post in the history of doubt-casting posts. If you're not the Thinger, stop casting suspicions around without presenting your reasons clearly. At least then we can dissect your argument for soundness instead of wallowing in rhetoric like "That's exactly what a thing would say."

shivam
05-26-2010, 05:23 PM
alright, fine. I don't actually suspect Adam, but i really really wanted to write something that sounded all paranoid and stuff.

I still think that right now, Destil is the most suspicious for reasons that were clear to me this morning.

Adam
05-26-2010, 05:32 PM
alright, fine. I don't actually suspect Adam, but i really really wanted to write something that sounded all paranoid and stuff.

Damn, so you got me to poke holes in my own master plan?

You're good... too good..

I still think that right now, Destil is the most suspicious for reasons that were clear to me this morning.

I'm still on the scan Destil bandwagon, but I want to think about what Merus said a little more before I commit myself.

Rai
05-26-2010, 06:15 PM
Two days and we already write a lot. God damn. I feel sorry for the rubes after me who are going to have to do what I've done. Think I'll keep a running .doc of all the posts, actually, to make it easier.

First off, thanks for electing me as the cerified crew member. I know it must have been a difficult decision, but I promise not to suck too much and try to expound on my reasoning for everything in a relatively coherent matter.

That said, god this gig sucks on the first day. I think I categorized about half the first posts as fluff, and another fair chunk was rule questions. What a pain. It's also nearly impossible to pick out some names from the list as possible suckers.... I mean subjects. Actually, no, suckers was the right word.

With fully half of my blood back where it belongs, I think I've determined a few things that could be useful. One, as with many others, I really like the idea that Eddie came up of with the list and the watching of people, especially if we focus on those above and below ourselves. And since the general consensus is to have the only known remix the list, here's Eddie's list v1.0 feat. Rai and Random.org:

1. Eirikr
2. shivam
3. Destil
4. Merus
5. Adam
6. Umby
7. Rai
8. namelessentity
9. spineshark
10. Nodal
11. Locit
12. McClain142
13. Bongo Bill
14. dwolfe
15. Eddie
16. Sprite

I love it when a list comes together.

With this in place, each person is responsible for those above and below themselves on the list. Keep this in mind, it's important. Now, my fear here is that the PRCY will just grab someone next to them as a beginning point, but frankly that's going to be a fear with any plan we have. It's a risk that we know exists, and that's about the most we can ask for at the moment.

As for other plans, I'm not really sold on them. While a bad citizen plan may be better than a bad PRCY plan, it's still a bad plan, and plans are rather notorious for not working. Additionally, giving ourselves a major plan also allows the PRCY to anticipate our moves. This is a problem for reasons I don't think I have to explain. So uh, let's not use scanning plans, 'kay?

As for scan targets..... I'm not going to say anything yet. There are two or three people I'm watching, but I want to wait and see how things develop before saying who I think should be scanned.

So right, uh. If there are any questions, ask them? Otherwise, have at I suppose.

Adam
05-26-2010, 07:11 PM
My only consolation is that Merus is going to have to spend as much time on me as I am on him.

BTW, Umby's posted 4 times, and the only ideas he's thrown out are that Shivam should be scanned for joining on a vote train, and that that scanning him (Umby) on a whim is a waste of our time. I applaud his making my job earlier, but Y SO QUIET?

shivam
05-26-2010, 07:55 PM
So right now we have one vote a piece for Rai, Destil and Umby.
Where do we go from here?

Nodal
05-26-2010, 08:02 PM
So right now we have one vote a piece for Rai, Destil and Umby.
Where do we go from here?

Rai? What? In case the scanner was just playing tricks?

Rai
05-26-2010, 08:12 PM
Oh god no. I'm not going through that scanner again.

Merus
05-26-2010, 08:17 PM
Well, I have a problem with that. That's exactly what the Thing would like us to do, spend your scans unwisely and just on a whim! But isn't that what we're doing anyway?

I don't see why it's unwise to scan you. We gotta scan everyone eventually. Adam has a great point, and considering there's going to be lingering questions about your behaviour today in the future, we might as well scan you now so that we know you were flipped later.

I have no objections to Eddie's watch list idea. I think it's got a chance of working, and if it doesn't, we'll be able to run down the list on the assumption that the players who should have been watching may also be PRCYs. (Also, hurrah, I get to watch two people who are pretty on the ball.)

While a bad citizen plan may be better than a bad PRCY plan, it's still a bad plan, and plans are rather notorious for not working. Additionally, giving ourselves a major plan also allows the PRCY to anticipate our moves. This is a problem for reasons I don't think I have to explain.

I agree with this.

That said, do you think there's value in naming a scan target for the next day, in order to protect that person from conversion? We know how gamebreaking protection can be, and it seems like it'll work so long as we agree to follow it. The scan we want to be finding infected on is the second scan, anyway, because that's the one where we get rolling scans.

Sprite
05-26-2010, 08:31 PM
Where do we go from here?
We talk.

Alright, everyone's been rather vague about this, so let's just get specific with our opinions. Who do you think are the highly desirable targets, and when do you think they should be scanned? I think the ones most people agree on are the following:

Destil
dwolfe
Eddie
Merus
*ahem* Sprite *cough*
Merus said it, not me!
Who else? The more names we can make undesirable to convert, the better. If we can somehow steer PRCY into one group or another, we raise our chances of finding it.

If we follow Merus's plan, I can think of two possible choices (of many, I'm sure):
A) Scan one power player per day and one non-power player per day, starting either today or tomorrow.

B) Scan non-power players Days One and Two, then scan Power Players in clusters starting either Day Three or Four, depending on the number of power players we decide to put on the list.

The assumptions below are for illustration's sake only and should not be taken as my full prediction of how PRCY will move. The numbers assume random scanning, which will almost certainly not be the case, but I still think it illustrates the point:

Plan A gives PRCY two pools to choose from. Say we have two groups of eight. If we follow this plan, we basically have n/8 chance of catching a Thinger each day (n being the number of Thingers in that group) if PRCY bulked up on one side.

Plan B basically forces PRCY to pick from the non-power player pool, because any power player it infects will be killed on the sweep. Thus, we can with confidence pick scans out of the non-power player pool. Going with eight in each group, and assuming PRCY picks the group we predict (heh), we would have n/8 chance (if 8 is the number we want) of hitting it twice a day.

They both have major cons, of course. Each has similar risk, with one spread out over the game and the other bulked up in the first couple days. Plan B has the best chance of winning us the game early, but will waste an enormous amount of time when it comes time for the sweep. The more I think about them, the less sure I am, but I wanted to make sure I tried to contribute today.

Adam
05-26-2010, 09:15 PM
That said, do you think there's value in naming a scan target for the next day, in order to protect that person from conversion? We know how gamebreaking protection can be, and it seems like it'll work so long as we agree to follow it. The scan we want to be finding infected on is the second scan, anyway, because that's the one where we get rolling scans.

I'm fairly sold on the idea, but I can see it being problematic, since a lot of us are sold on the idea that a confirmed kill should come from Scan 2. This essentially defines Scan 1 as someone we want to keep on our side, rather than someone we think has been infected. PRCY could use this as a valid tactic to infect non-suspicious, non-powerful players. They're not going to be chosen for Scan 1, as we're not intent on protecting them, and we're not going to give them Scan 2, as we won't want to miss the chance to get an extra scan.

I'm starting to worry that the best plan for PRCY is to completely ignore our "power players", as its best chance for survival is to stay low. If it continues to infect other nondescript players, they're going to have a field day watching all of the movers and shakers wasting their time pointing their fingers at each other.

I'd like to say I have a valid alternative, but as I've shown, if there's one thing I'm good at, it's poking holes in my own theories. Hopefully, once we find a PRCY, we'll be able to reconsider our actions based on any patterns we find.

Merus
05-26-2010, 09:32 PM
I'm fairly sold on the idea, but I can see it being problematic, since a lot of us are sold on the idea that a confirmed kill should come from Scan 2. This essentially defines Scan 1 as someone we want to keep on our side, rather than someone we think has been infected. PRCY could use this as a valid tactic to infect non-suspicious, non-powerful players. They're not going to be chosen for Scan 1, as we're not intent on protecting them, and we're not going to give them Scan 2, as we won't want to miss the chance to get an extra scan.

This is true, but I think we can avoid this if we aren't committed to what each scan is 'for'.

I'm starting to worry that the best plan for PRCY is to completely ignore our "power players", as its best chance for survival is to stay low.

This isn't so much of a problem, because that means the power players stay on our side, being awesome. If PRCY sticks to only one group, eventually we'll get to the point where random chance will get us a PRCY, and from there we can clear up most of the group. The more we confine PRCY's options, the better off we'll be.

namelessentity
05-26-2010, 09:49 PM
Plan B basically forces PRCY to pick from the non-power player pool, because any power player it infects will be killed on the sweep. Thus, we can with confidence pick scans out of the non-power player pool. Going with eight in each group, and assuming PRCY picks the group we predict (heh), we would have n/8 chance (if 8 is the number we want) of hitting it twice a day.

They both have major cons, of course. Each has similar risk, with one spread out over the game and the other bulked up in the first couple days. Plan B has the best chance of winning us the game early, but will waste an enormous amount of time when it comes time for the sweep. The more I think about them, the less sure I am, but I wanted to make sure I tried to contribute today.

I like plan B here as long as we aren't too committal about it since it is very abusable. But we still have the problem of who to vote for today.

Question: I haven't really thought about it too thoroughly, but what is our upper limit on days. One conversion a day means they will have majority in seven days? Is that the max?

Merus
05-26-2010, 09:55 PM
We gain one day every infected we find, I believe. The maximum amount of days the game can go is 12 - in that scenario, there's just three people left with one infected.

Umby
05-26-2010, 10:10 PM
Well, Adam, to be frank, I find you suspicious too, but there's something I can find suspicious about everyone, and this game I thought I'd try being a bit less pointy and more about taking things in, and saying stuff I think is important to say. I'm working around extremes, here, I guess.

And Merus, I never said that scanning me was a bad idea at all, I'm just saying that Destil's suggestion is also kinda suspicious.

McClain
05-27-2010, 12:31 AM
*pokes his head in*

Sorry, been off the grid most of the day.

Ah, so Rai was clean. Damn, I was hoping this would be over fast ...

Well, for now i'm on the Destil bandwagon, so unless someone has a better idea, I'll probably go for that when the votes start coming int.

*communication ended*

Destil
05-27-2010, 01:38 AM
I have no problems with the watchlist.

I've been thinking about a good way to make the math on this easy to follow and do, and I think I have it:

If we miss with 14 scans we lose on night 7 right now. Every successful scan using the 1st scan does not affect this value. Every successful scan using the second scan or later increases this value by one. If at any point we've kill an odd number of total things with the 1st scan we gain one extra scan (this bonus scan is lost when we kill a second thing with the first scan and make the total even again, it's due to getting two scans at once on the last day).

I can use this to effectively keep a doomsday clock running this game, I will update this after every scan. If someone could double check my math that would be great.

We lose after 13 more missed scans.

As far as determining who to scan when: Look at Tock last game, everyone was able to trust him pretty well for a day, even though he wasn't verified until the game was over. Our killing scans and "prove this person to be innocent so we can get useful info from them" scan don't have to be different. What is different is we can use the first scan target for things that we can't allow to be corrupted like determining random numbers. So how we value a player doesn't need to be tied to when we want to scan them.

As the game state stands right now, the 1st time we hit with the first scan also buys us one extra. So for now I believe it's in our best interest to use both scans to their fullest and not introduce bias into the scan order based on the likely hood of thingdom. Once we hit a thing with the first scan we should ideally be using the 2nd scan on the more likely of the two people we scan in a given day, until we have another successful 1st scan in which case the two become equal again.

Paul le Fou
05-27-2010, 02:06 AM
Turns out Eirikr never actually intended to play the game. He voted, I hear, because he likes the movie The Thing. Probably doesn't even know what forum mafia is. Maybe he accidentally clicked on the forum and made a couple thousand posts and then voted in a thread while having an epileptic fit or something. Anyway... *ahem*


Engineer McClain (designation #46) craned his neck against the viewport trying to catch a glimpse of Junior JerkfaceLieutenant Eirikr, but it was no use. He had moved too far up the hull of the ship. Finding a deck with an open section of the hull so they could improvise an airlock had been tough, but they'd finally been able to put someone in their last whole spacewalk suit and send him out on the ship's manipulator arm - the manipulator arm! - for repairs. If they could fix up the communication link array satellite beam control unit, they might be able to send a direct signal for help that wouldn't get picked up by the Brontonians. McClain was guiding Eirikr from down below.

"OK," Eirikr said. "Wires are connected on the upper side. Everything's tight."
"Great. Move to the lower side."
Moving to the lower side, boss.
McClain waited, wishing he could see the person he was guiding. And then, all of a sudden, he did, as Eirikr sailed past the viewport and into the abyss.
"Jesus Christ! Eirikr! Come in! Can you hear me? Eirikr! Computer, what the hell happened?"
Sorry, boss. I dropped your spacewalker.

Eirikr's dead, and also lame.

Destil
05-27-2010, 02:18 AM
... I spent the last 2 hours working on math-related posts using 15 crewmembers and 1 thing.

I hate Eirikr.

Destil
05-27-2010, 02:23 AM
As the game state stands right now, the 1st time we hit with the first scan also buys us one extra. So for now I believe it's in our best interest to use both scans to their fullest and not introduce bias into the scan order based on the likely hood of thingdom. Once we hit a thing with the first scan we should ideally be using the 2nd scan on the more likely of the two people we scan in a given day, until we have another successful 1st scan in which case the two become equal again.

The loss of Eirikr (assuming he wasn't the thing; did we win, Paul?) puts us into this bolded part of the game state. We no longer gain a missed scan the next time our 1st scan hits (we gain one after two successful 1st scans), everything else stays the same.

Therefore I revise my position. We should make our best efforts to insure that of the two people we scan every day the 2nd one is the one more likely to be a thing.

Paul le Fou
05-27-2010, 02:30 AM
Eirikr was the Thing. I was going to wait until it was mathematically impossible to have not won before telling you, though. Thanks for spoiling it!

(Eirikr was not the Thing.)

(He would have been replaced if he were. He was almost replaced as it was, but his replacement candidate had already been told about a couple people's status in the game and didn't feel it fair to come in knowing that, and Upper deck was up 1 on lower deck anyway.)

Paul le Fou
05-27-2010, 07:43 AM
Current votes:

Umby: 1
Destil

Merus: 1
dwolfe

Destil: 1
shivam

Just about halfway.

Merus
05-27-2010, 09:33 AM
this game I thought I'd try being a bit less pointy and more about taking things in, and saying stuff I think is important to say.

Everyone is suspicious

Umby why you gotta make me hit you? If you want to be less pointy this game you can start by not pointing at people. If you know that you can make everyone look suspicious it's not really important to say that individual people are suspicious.

And Merus, I never said that scanning me was a bad idea at all, I'm just saying that Destil's suggestion is also kinda suspicious.

So you're saying that spending scans unwisely is not a bad idea?

I VOTE TO SCAN UMBY

If you're going to act like this all game, I want to know that you're clean. I think scanning players that act strangely under pressure is a good place to start because it's not in PRCY's best interest to convert them.

Umby
05-27-2010, 11:37 AM
Go ahead, you'll add another one to the block, anyhow. Afterwards, though, I want to see Destil on the hotspot, because he was the one who put me on the spot. I'm not voting for anyone yet, I haven't seen too much that has tipped me one way or the other.

McClain
05-27-2010, 12:21 PM
Eirikr! Noooooooo!

I feel somehow responsible for this death.

Well, hell, that's one fewer person to scan, but it's also one fewer known clean.

Had he posted any theories? I have to go scan the thread again.

Umby is acting a little strange. I think he should definitely be scanned in the next couple of days. I think I still want to keep the heat on Destil, since he was close last time, and I'd hate to just miss a Thing if it's him.

Rai
05-27-2010, 12:21 PM
Nope, Eirikr hadn't spoken at all. So there's nothing there to pull from.

Adam
05-27-2010, 02:29 PM
Go ahead, you'll add another one to the block, anyhow.

Actually, scanning you right now doesn't add anything to the block. Once we get a clean Scan 2 (or 3 or 4 etc.), the block is essentially dead, since we can't trust that any previous Confirmed Clean Crewmembers are still clean. The best we'll have is the knowledge that at least one out of the two scanned crewmembers is clean, which is a hell of a place for a new PRCY to hide. This is one of the reasons we should plan out the next day's Scan 1 in advance.

namelessentity
05-27-2010, 05:50 PM
I don't really see anybody as being too suspicious, well any more than usual for day 1, so I don't have a good idea for who to vote for.

I vote to scan Destil

He has been pointing out that we should scan him later because we want to get him after he's turned, so as to prevent wasting scans. While I agree with this idea, I think that it is also a good way for patient zero to hide. Prevents us from destroying him before he could turn more Things, and when we do catch him we wouldn't know when his information was bad (at least I think that's the rules, someone mentioned that we may get when a crew member was turned. Is that true?)

Seriously, I think he's on the up-and-up, but anybody else I vote for would just be random, and I just couldn't stand being right about all this and having him laugh at us later for not getting him on the first scan.

Rai
05-27-2010, 06:38 PM
I really wanted to see something happen, but I guess that I'm not going to. Shame!

Well, I can't say that I necessarily disagree with scanning Umby or Destil. As much as anyone else. As much as I'd like to say that I have some deep seated suspicion of anyone. There's little reason to suspect anyone in my mind at this point. That said, it'd be downright lazy of me to miss out on two votes.

So I'm going to throw in a vote for Shivam. I can't complain about any of the choices currently up though. I would like to know if Destil is clear today (just as I'd like to know if Merus is too), and Umby's fairly suspicious too. But Shivam hasn't added terribly much to the conversation while remaining visible. If I were the Thing, that's likely where I would be until I had at least two or three allies.

Sprite
05-27-2010, 06:40 PM
I don't know who to vote for!

Guess I'll just get on the bandwagon and VOTE TO SCAN UMBY.

Eddie
05-27-2010, 06:42 PM
Again, I'm okay with using our first few scans to hit people who have brought forth some decent enough strategy, but I don't think I can get behind scanning Destil (as I will explain soon enough).

Some thoughts on the game so far:

1) Our best plan is 'no plan.' Or rather, our best plan is to not make any solid plans. Until PRCY infects a few more of us, we've kind of got the lone infected at our mercy. Our best weapon is being unpredictable!

2) I think if needed, we can get anyone to produce fairly reliable random results on demand. Here's how:
a) Go to Invisible Castle (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/).
b) For picking people, refer to Paul's list of players (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=767081&postcount=3). Spineshark can be considered "#1" while Sprite can be considered "#15."
c) Under the "character name" field, put your name followed by a dash (-) and then followed by the last three words in the previous post. An example can be found here. (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2537379/) I rolled a six, which on the list of names would be Rai.
d) Copy the URL. You can paste it into a post like this one (like I did above).
e) To prove you're on the up and up, you can search for the above string (I.e. "Eddie - the first scan."). If there's more than one, someone's cheating! You can search other options too to see if someone is trying to 'manipulate' the results. Dont' worry if someoen else posts while you're writing your response (like Sprite did), the last three words are more for a timestamp than anything.
f) Questions?

3) I honestly think our initial Thing is playing low. It's much too risky to be out and swinging the first day.

I vote to scan locit.

- Eddie

McClain
05-27-2010, 07:00 PM
I might as well make it official:

I vote to scan Destil

While a couple other folks are starting to say strange stuff, I'm still going with the "don't scan me for a few days" zero patient theory. The original Thing throwing himself into the fire after his brood gets a foothold is not a bad strategy.

namelessentity
05-27-2010, 07:27 PM
There was talk of bandwagoning for whoever our clean crew member voted for (I think dwolfe said this). I have nothing against this at the moment, and if votes are too spread out by the end of the day I think we should consider this just so we don't have a tie. If we don't have a clear plurality by the end of the day I vote for following Rai.

But there is plenty of time, so no worries.

Destil
05-27-2010, 08:11 PM
This is one of the reasons we should plan out the next day's Scan 1 in advance.

Wait, what? If we set into stone who we're scanning tomorrow now then we reduce the odds that we could hit a thing on that scan to nothing. That doesn't seem like a fair trade unless we have some sort of master plan for that person. I want a scan held over my own head, but you guys should want it to be at some point ine future that the things can't necessarily predict. From my perspective if I'm converted of course I'd rather know when I was to be scanned, but I'm working with you here.

Though, I can't really endorse going as far as just rolling dice to remain unpredictable. I'd prefer my scan come at the calling of someone else who we verify from an earlier scan.

Nameless is entirely right. Good catch. I would say the exact same thing if I were patient 0, as my only goal would be to survive as long as possible, knowing that a scan was inevitable. However, I wasn't the first one to bring up the idea. That would be Merus, who also wasn't even up for a scan at the time. Just reminding everyone, since I'm supposed to be keeping an eye on him...

I still like Umby for our 2nd scan today, since I think he's a poor early-game conversion target. I could be convinced to go for Merus, too, but I think I can give him at least a day (kill a thing tomorrow and we're back in a day 1 gamestate!)

Adam
05-27-2010, 08:27 PM
Wait, what? If we set into stone who we're scanning tomorrow now then we reduce the odds that we could hit a thing on that scan to nothing.

For day 1, yes, you have a point. However, after that, we're only ensuring we don't hit the newly infected PRCY with Scan 1. We can potentially hit any of the other PRCYs. The tradeoff we get is that we're giving someone immunity to being converted that night, which is still a valid strategy for Day 1.

For example, let's say there's a player "Dr. Estil", who is a good player that we want to keep on our side, but his loyalties are in doubt. I am proposing that we agree in advance that we're going to scan Dr. Estil first thing the next day, if he is clean, PRCY won't steal him from us, and we'll also be sure he's on our side. If he was infected, then the PRCY squad won't be able to stop us from killing one of them.

Merus had the right of in that if the Thing sticks with quiet players who don't have much influence, then we're in good shape.

McClain
05-27-2010, 08:39 PM
There was talk of bandwagoning for whoever our clean crew member voted for (I think dwolfe said this). I have nothing against this at the moment, and if votes are too spread out by the end of the day I think we should consider this just so we don't have a tie. If we don't have a clear plurality by the end of the day I vote for following Rai.

But there is plenty of time, so no worries.


I think that's a good option, especially for later on. But right now it's all hunches and guesses, so while I respect Rai's pick as a VC, I don't really feel it's any more or less valid at this point.

Merus
05-27-2010, 09:34 PM
while I respect Rai's pick as a VC, I don't really feel it's any more or less valid at this point.

And you wonder why I always snort derisively at the idea of establishing a verified clean.

"Hey guys, let's find someone that we can make sure is on our side!"
"Okay!"
"Now let's ignore them!"
"All right!"

McClain
05-27-2010, 10:04 PM
And you wonder why I always snort derisively at the idea of establishing a verified clean.

"Hey guys, let's find someone that we can make sure is on our side!"
"Okay!"
"Now let's ignore them!"
"All right!"

The ONLY thing it's worth is knowing that their pick is not a Red Herring. That may be very valuable later on, though.

Bongo Bill
05-28-2010, 12:13 AM
Umby seems like he's trying to keep a low profile. If I vote to scan Umby, we'll find out whether that's just the way he rolls or if he's actually trying to hide.

spineshark
05-28-2010, 02:47 AM
It's a trap!

I vote to scan Merus.
I agree. We can always check major players again if we have reason. I also vote for Merus.

Merus
05-28-2010, 06:42 AM
Thanks for making me PRCY target number #1, guys! Jerks.

Eddie
05-28-2010, 07:23 AM
Heck with that. You get scanned tonight you become #1 on my list to scan tomorrow!

- Eddie

Merus
05-28-2010, 07:34 AM
Again, thanks for knocking me out of the game, jerks!

Eddie
05-28-2010, 07:41 AM
Anything for you Merus.

- Eddie

Sprite
05-28-2010, 07:48 AM
Well, we're succeeding on the "unpredictable" front, if nothing else. Ev'rybody's all over the place.

Alright, everyone who's not a Thing better comb through this thread over the next 48 hours to get a handle on their buddies. I'm having a hard time keeping track of y'all. Too many plans all up in the air.

See you all next phase, and to the Thing, uh, may the best entities win, I guess.

- Navigator Sprite signing off

Destil
05-28-2010, 07:49 AM
Heck with that. You get scanned tonight you become #1 on my list to scan tomorrow!

- Eddie

And so the triple think starts.

We should scan Merus every day. It's the only way to be safe.

Eddie
05-28-2010, 07:51 AM
We should scan Merus every day. It's the only way to be safe.

Agreed. Merus will be our shining beacon of light!

- Eddie

Adam
05-28-2010, 08:22 AM
Alright, since both my neighbors are up for the vote, here's a history lesson:

Ye tragick past of Comms Officer Merus

#67 – Argues with Shivam and says dedicating one scan a day to rescans is a horrible idea, since our ultimate goal means finding all of the infected, which he believes will be more likely to happen if we scan everyone.
Agrees with dwolfe that a Scan 1 Verified Clean should lead the discussion for the rest of the day, to give “less good players a chance to participate”, validates the importance of the first scan, and helps us avoid having a few suggestible people drive all discussion. Expresses disgruntlement that he is agreeing with dwolfe.

#69 – Disagrees with Sprite that crew members won’t want to be scanned, due to Sprite’s suggestion that scanning targets have to write up digests. Merus believes that crewmembers should be willing to be scanned, as an unwillingness to scan is the hallmark of a PRCY.
Merus believes that PRCY will concentrate its conversion efforts on ‘more desirable’ targets, defined as “loud and have a history of contributions that are unhelpful to a PRCY trying to lay low.” He believes dwolfe and Sprite fall under this category.

#70 – Rules clarification

#73 – Disagrees with namelessentity and says we shouldn’t use Scan 1 on good players because PRCY will want to convert them. He suggests we wait a few days to scan them so we don’t have to waste the initial scan before PRCY would potentially convert them.

#86 - Agrees with dwolfe that wasting time is a winning condition for PRCY. Also agrees that giving the scan vote to a Scan 1 Verified Clean keeps the Thing from having influence over the Scan 2 vote, with the caution that the VC is easy to manipulate and no-one takes their hunches seriously anyway.
Likes dwolfe’s idea of having the VC give two names, giving us a target for Scan 1 the next day and also telling PRCY not to waste their time on said target. He also posits a shell game on that Scan 1 to keep us unpredictable.
Agrees with Destil that we should hold off on scanning our biggest assets to try and prevent PRCY from converting them.
Responds to McClain142 by stating our best strategy is to scan everyone, but since we won’t be able to scan everyone before PRCY wins, we’re going to have to use rescans to give us enough time to find Patient Zero (I’m not sure if Merus knows at this time that Patient Zero has no extraordinary qualities). Believes we’ll have enough information to start rescanning by day 4.
States that our strategy has to be based around the relative value of each crewmember.

#90 – Challenges Eddie that we can’t ensure that someone’s plan is a good one. States that our strategy instead is to find people who are dismantling good plans.

#119 – Votes for Rai following Nodal, McClain, and Sprite (Rai is declared Clean in post #143)

#124 – Challenges locit that the having a VC doesn’t mean we’ve avoided plan doubt. we need to get used to doubt.

#145 – Discusses with Adam that a string of unlucky scans kills us no matter what strategy we use.
Disagrees with Adam and says Destil should be scanned later as a kill shot, instead of wasting a scan today to verify if he’s clean. States that if Destil is turned, he’s smart enough to cover his tracks.
States that to win, we will probably need to keep Merus and Destil clean or dead as they are high-value players.

#146 – Asks for rules clarification about whether we learn when infected are turned

#172 – Responds to Umby and says we should scan him now to clear up any misconceptions about his lack of posts, which was pointed out by Adam.
Agrees with Eddie’s watch list idea.
Agrees with Rai that having a major plan allows PRCY to anticipate our moves. Asks Rai (in a positive manner) if he agrees with the plan to have us name the next day’s Scan 1 before this day’s end

#175 – Reponds to Adam saying that we can avoid being predictable if we don’t commit to the nature of Scan 1 vs. Scan 2. Tells Adam it’s a good thing if PRCY ignores our power players, and we’re best served by confining PRCY’s choices.

#177 – States that he believes we get one extra day of play for every infected we find.

#186 – Tells Umby he’s being contradictory and votes to scan him.

#200 – Snorts derisively at the idea of a Verified Clean

Adam
05-28-2010, 08:24 AM
The Life and Times of Cargo Bay Box Comfortableness Technician Umby

#81 – Was sleeping in the cargo bay and will catch up on discussion.

#115 – Votes to scan Shivam for starting the spineshark train. Keeping an eye on Eddie and Nodal and will post his thoughts tomorrow, when we have more information.

#147 – No ideas (no thoughts from earlier). Is waiting for Rai as VC.

#150 – In response to a nomination from Destil, says that scanning him on a whim is waste of time. Will not volunteer to be scanned.

#178 – States that he’s suspicious of Adam, but is also really suspicious of everyone in general.
Tells Merus he never said scanning himself was a bad idea, but thinks Destil’s suspicion of him is suspicious.

#187 – Responds to Merus’ vote to scan him by saying that it’ll just add one more person to the confirmed clean block. States that after he’s found clean, he wants Destil scanned.

Paul le Fou
05-28-2010, 09:03 AM
Final votes:

Umby: 4
Destil
Merus
Sprite
Bongo Bill

Destil: 3
shivam
namelessentity
McClain45564

Merus: 2
dwolfe
spineshark

Shivam: 1
Rai

locit: 1
Eddie


Looks like there's not a lot of agreement here, boss.
No. We've got a full third of us on the docket and looks like our winner is taking the needle with 4 votes.
You guys need a vision. A leader. Someone like Captain Nich! To unite you in the darkness, to bring you together for a common future!
Captain Nich abandoned us. He got in a 6-person escape pod and left alone.
To find help!
I don't think he went to find help.
Well, that's what he told me.
You believed him?
He was the captain.
And you wonder why our crew has trust issues.
Wanna talk about it, boss?
Not right now, computer. Not right now. Let's go, Umby. Grab those bandages.

*ponk*
Sample obtained.
Scanning process initiated.
...
...
...
Scan complete.

Umby is clean, boss.


Well, it's reassuring, anyway. To know they're on our side.
The first step to working out your trust issues! You can work together now!
Let's hope so, computer. Let's hope so.

Night falls. You return to your bunks, exhausted from a day of repairs... and PRCY-hunting. Don't worry, you think to yourselves. You'll get him tomorrow.

...you'll get them tomorrow.

Umby
05-28-2010, 12:56 PM
Ok, I'm not trying to keep a low profile, and you can scan to confirm that, but...

I may need a replacement, because I'll be out of town for the next week. And working for the next two. The working weeks should be fine, but I don't know if I will be able to get on a computer.

Anyway, I vote for Destil, because he's the second best target other than me.

Umby
05-28-2010, 12:57 PM
Oh, didn't see that. Sorry guys.

Paul le Fou
05-29-2010, 08:00 AM
You wake up and step into the gangway. It's quiet. You realize it's the first time the ship has been quiet since the accident. It's nice. It almost feels pleasant. You decide to take a stroll to the mess hall and see if any of the remaining food can be made into something resembling a real breakfast.
Good morning boss.
Well, the quiet couldn't last-
I was making some eggs for everyone, but I dropped them.
-forever. Were those eggs safe? The refrigeration is out. You thought the robots were broken, too.

Well, the emergency ration biscuits aren't that bad.

It is now morning.

McClain
05-29-2010, 08:09 AM
*dreams that Umby was walking around the ship in the night, muttering Destil's name to himself* Suspicious, or just silly?

Yawn. Morning already? What a strange night.

Okay, lets get cracking.

WARNING: WILD SPECULATION APPROACHING!

Day 1 observations:

Rai and Umby were both clean

Rai and Umby both voted for Shivam.

Therefore, Shivam was NOT a Day 1 Red Herring.

Shivam might be Zero Patient.

Shivam was on the Destil bandwagon.

Destil might have been a Red Herring for our Zero Patient, Shivam.

So we should scan Shivam ... second today. Since we might have a hunch for a Thinger, then we could risk taking it second, since it might earn us an extra scan.

Then we have to think, if Shivam was our Zero Patient, who would he have infected last night? I … don't know him well enough, but I imagine he's smart enough to not go after the obvious power player (Merus) or the most on the fringe (uh, me?). A good pick might be someone who was clean Day 1, but do we want to start rescanning already? I don't.

So I propose we scan Shivam this evening, and talk about a likely new infection for this morning.

At the risk of missing what we almost scanned, I'd be tempted to stick with Destil first, then Shivam tonight, unless Destil comes up dirty.

I have other theories that completely ignore this, but I think this is the most probable right now.

Destil
05-29-2010, 08:31 AM
My opinion is that we should not scan the following people today:
Destil, Sprite, Merus.

Reason being: each of us got 2 or more votes yesterday, which hopefully means we're less likely to have been choose as conversion targets. I didn't say this yesterday because I didn't want the thing double thinking us.

As far as finding patient 0 then simply continuing to scan new people today will still work towards finding that person. And we should most likely get scans at some point in the future.

As far as who we scan first today, my picks would be the following:
dwolfe, Eddie, Adam.

Reason being, all three are among the more vocal and game influencing yesterday, but did not attract significant votes. Am I missing anyone in that category?

I vote to scan Eddie.

Pretty much everyone agreed with his watch list plan yesterday. The original order on the watchlist had Eddie being watched by Umby, which makes me suspicious: Umby has never proven to be a particularly strong player as far as convincing people to follow him nor as far as detective work. Also for all of his invisible castle touting Eddie used random.org for the first list arrangement so we have no idea if it's really random.

... actually. Hell. Eddie sounds like my best bet right now. So I'm putting him in the freezer for dessert.

I retract my vote to scan Eddie

I vote to scan Adam.

He's been pretty vocal and people are listening to him, but nothing he's said strikes me as particularly thingish so far.

McClain
05-29-2010, 08:36 AM
convoluted double-speak

You aren't helping your case.

I VOTE TO SCAN DESTIL.

I didn't want to start voting so quickly. I wanted to try to talk about Day 1 calmly and see what we've learned. But Destil's acting strangely. If I were a Thing, I'd probably want to get the voting started quickly and away from me, too.

This might just be Destil. If he comes up clean we can go ahead and attribute his behavior to

Space Madness (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Tux6s7y_g)

and ignore it in the future.

Sprite
05-29-2010, 09:59 AM
Editing is against the rules.

Adam
05-29-2010, 10:06 AM
Nerts, I was hoping night would last the full 48 hours, since I'm gone all day today, and might be sporadic tomorrow. Yes, this is a change from my normal behavior. No, this doesn't mean I've been infected. This just means I've been married for a year, and I get to take a break :P

For the sake of not missing the vote again, I vote to scan Destil but please don't turn this into a bandwagon. If y'alls find someone acting strangely compared to yesterday, go for them instead.

Especially because I was also thinking:

Reason being: each of us got 2 or more votes yesterday, which hopefully means we're less likely to have been choose as conversion targets. I didn't say this yesterday because I didn't want the thing double thinking us.

shivam
05-29-2010, 10:36 AM
I've been calling for destil's vote for a long time, and i'm standing my ground now.

I vote Destil under the ultraviolet showers

And McClain, i volunteered to be scanned yesterday, and i'll gladly submit to it again, but not the first scan of the day. it's too important to waste.

Eddie
05-29-2010, 10:49 AM
My opinion is that we should not scan the following people today:
Destil, Sprite, Merus.

Reason being: each of us got 2 or more votes yesterday, which hopefully means we're less likely to have been choose as conversion targets. I didn't say this yesterday because I didn't want the thing double thinking us.


I'm honestly for re-scanning on of our our two clean members (Rai and Umby). There was a lot of jokey talk about scanning them again this day, but if I were to put myself in the Thing's/PRCYs shoes, I think you convert someone who you feel is the least likely to be scanned today.

There was quite a bit of support (at least I felt) for using the second scan to scan someone new; that leaves the first scan for us to play with. I think if you go with the idea that we use today's scan to examine two new people (a reasonable assumption), then it's reasonable that as PRCY you infect on of the people that's already gotten a clean bill of health.

At least, that's how I think I might play it. Early PRCY I think is desperately trying to outthink a group of individuals (i.e. us) who should be acting pretty unpredicatably. That we didn't really give much serious consideration to rescanning our scanned might be judged to be a safe haven for early infection; if nothing we set a precedent that getting cleaned the previous day does NOT disqualify you from a scan today.

That's why I say we randomly pick between Rai and Umby to scan, and then choose someone new, so we cover both bases. I suggested this idea yesterday, and it didn't get much support, but hell. Let's try it again.

I'm voting to scan Destil.

I think his suggestions today are suboptimal play from someone I believe to be a better player than this. Getting 'two votes' yesterday means very little in my book; by that logic I got one vote. That would mean the best player to infect someone who got zero votes!

Well, I don't really buy that logic, and I don't think patient zero would either.

Pretty much everyone agreed with his watch list plan yesterday. The original order on the watchlist had Eddie being watched by Umby, which makes me suspicious: Umby has never proven to be a particularly strong player as far as convincing people to follow him nor as far as detective work. Also for all of his invisible castle touting Eddie used random.org for the first list arrangement so we have no idea if it's really random.

For the record, I didn't use invisiblecastle because I didn't think there was a good way to prove you really didn't roll twenty results in a variety of cryptic ways to get the result you wanted. Rai's redone list is perfectly suitable. Also, I don't think you're giving Umby enough credit.

- Eddie

namelessentity
05-29-2010, 11:02 AM
You guys are all ignoring the elephant in the room, and if you aren't willing to talk about it I will.

Red shirts go first. It's their destiny. You don't want to kill off Kirk so what do you do, you send a Red Shirt. And I believe we only have one ranking red shirt left, isn't that right McClain? Thought we'd forget about you

On a more serious note, I like McClain's reasoning, but I don't like his results. They are far too circumstantial for me to really get behind them, but I think that is all we are going to be able to do at this point.

In terms of rescanning, I don't think it is a good option this early. I'm going off the only information we know, there is at least one Thing in the group of unscanned crew members. There may, but there also may not, be one in the scanned crew. I would rather hunt down the known for now by using both scans to scan new crew members.

All that said, I have no idea who to vote for. I was trying to think if this is out of character for how Destil acts, but then I remembered he was turned last game, so I have no idea how he acts in the first place. I'm going to wait and see how things develop before I vote

Sprite
05-29-2010, 11:03 AM
Okay, here are the people who have received votes in the game so far:
Destil
Eddie
locit
Merus
Rai
shivam
Sprite
Umby

Did I miss anyone? I can't remember if dwolfe received any votes, but he definitely has suspicions, so pretend he's also on that list.

The following people have not received votes. I'm not sure if they've received suspicion or not. Anyone know?

Adam
Bongo Bill
McClain142
namelessentity
Nodal
spineshark

Again, if I'm wrong, please let me know.

Okay, my theory is that everyone in that second list were the most likely candidates for conversion last night. Rai and Umby could also be good choices, though I'm not sure if PRCY would want to eat into the VC list just yet.

Ergo, I propose that we scan one of those six today. Precisely who, I'm not sure. Adam seems to have a good head on his shoulders, though people notice him. Bongo Bill I have no read on, as he hasn't posted much. Could someone who's played with him before give their thoughts? McClain1942 is new, and is still getting the hang of the game, so he probably wasn't converted last night. He's certainly no dummy, despite some iffy posts (no offense). namelessentity would be a good choice, as he plays fairly well without being too loud. Same thing with Nodal. spineshark is quiet, and doesn't typically say much. None of them strike me as an out and out bad choice.

I'm not sure yet. I'm leaning towards Adam, though someone quieter might have been a better choice. Another problem is Patient Zero, who I have no lead on. They're going to be a thorn in our side for a while.

namelessentity
05-29-2010, 11:05 AM
That's why I say we randomly pick between Rai and Umby to scan, and then choose someone new, so we cover both bases. I suggested this idea yesterday, and it didn't get much support, but hell. Let's try it again.

I'm voting to scan Destil.

Wouldn't we want to use our rescan for our first, and save our second for the hunt for patient zero?

namelessentity
05-29-2010, 11:18 AM
The following people have not received votes. I'm not sure if they've received suspicion or not. Anyone know?

Adam
Bongo Bill
McClain142
namelessentity
Nodal
spineshark

Again, if I'm wrong, please let me know.


Shivam (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=768249&postcount=103) votes to scan spineshark.

Bongo Bill
05-29-2010, 07:21 PM
Destil, you are sounding pretty suspicious to me. Let's get our trust-but-verify on, shall we? I vote we scan Destil.

dwolfe
05-29-2010, 08:36 PM
*MAGIC THEME SONG PLAYS*

The final countdown! (well, not yet, but this is my new theme song for this ordeal)

Magic! Mystery! Illusion! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG5RUNlxtkA) Let's find a thing! I'm aided by my beautiful lab assistant!

I vote Sprite.

Most posts by a player, and where better to hide than in plain sight?

McClain and Merus are on my short list, McClain for posting so much second only to Sprite; and Merus as my day one vote.

Of course, by posting this, it reveals a potential criteria for Thing finding :(

McClain
05-29-2010, 09:39 PM
Editing is against the rules.

Sorry, N00B mistake! Not that it matters, by I just added the link. Won't happen again!

McClain1942 is new, and is still getting the hang of the game, so he probably wasn't converted last night. He's certainly no dummy, despite some iffy posts (no offense).

None taken. I've been posting a lot in the hopes of learning the game by making mistakes. Please feel free to explain the flaws in anything I post.


You guys are all ignoring the elephant in the room, and if you aren't willing to talk about it I will.

Red shirts go first. It's their destiny. You don't want to kill off Kirk so what do you do, you send a Red Shirt. And I believe we only have one ranking red shirt left, isn't that right McClain? Thought we'd forget about you

Go ahead and scan me if you want to waste a turn. I think my Red Shirt status would be too obviously a liability at this point for the Thingers.

Eddie
05-29-2010, 09:46 PM
Wouldn't we want to use our rescan for our first, and save our second for the hunt for patient zero?

Yes, you're correct. After I wrote that I spent the entire day at work thinking "man, someone is going to nail me to the wall about that."

Well, at least it wasn't Destil.

Yes, I'd rather save Destil for scan #2, but in the absence of any push to use the first scan randomly (and there doesn't really seem to be any) then Destil is as good as anyone else.

And I suggest everyone think twice about whom we scan today (for both scans). Remember that PRCY is actively trying to pick people we'd avoid scanning. Do you think rescanning Rai or Umby is a bad idea, because the likelihood that PRCY infected one of them last night is low? Then think like a PRCY would: wouldn't that make Rai or Umby the most delicious targets then?

Or, to put it another way, don't discount anyone as being potentially PRCY'd. There's good reasons to infect anyone; put yourself in patient zero's shoes and think who YOU would infect given what was said yesterday. If the answer is the same person you think you would choose to scan today, then at least try and articulate why.

Why would you infect someone with no votes? You'd do it not becuase people find them not-suspcious, you'd do it because you're hoping everyone will think it'd be too obvious.

Double-thinking is practically manditory.

- Eddie

Sprite
05-29-2010, 10:45 PM
Thanks for correcting me, nameless.

Rai!
spineshark!

Is there any reason why you didn't have a vote recorded when the first phase ended yesterday?

Adam!
locit!
Nodal!
Umby!

Is there any reason why you didn't have a vote recorded when the second phase ended yesterday?

Here's a question: Do we think Patient Zero would have missed a vote yesterday? Both of our VCs missed one, albeit their own. Votes are powerful things, guys. Why did you neglect yours?

spineshark
05-29-2010, 10:55 PM
I was tired that night and forgot to vote before I went to bed since I couldn't figure out what to do anyway =/

namelessentity
05-29-2010, 11:09 PM
Here's a question: Do we think Patient Zero would have missed a vote yesterday? Both of our VCs missed one, albeit their own. Votes are powerful things, guys. Why did you neglect yours?

I would imagine the Thing would vote. There is no 'well you seem blood thirsty, so you are evil' in this go around. And especially since it was a random vote, there was little they could have done to look suspicious. I would imagine the only suspicious act would be bandwagoning to avoid being scanned yourself, but the only close votes like that were between Destil and Umby, and Destil clearly gave his reasons early.

In short, I don't think voting records from yesterday are going to help without knowing the Thing's personality, and we won't know that until we catch the bugger.

Adam
05-29-2010, 11:58 PM
I just set up LeechBlock (an extension for Firefox that lets you block individual websites for determined ranges of time) to take down my web browsing at home at 7:30am so I don't screw around on my computer in the morning when I have to leave for work. After posting the summaries for Merus and Umby, I realized that I had no idea when the vote was actually scheduled for. By the time I found the post for Scan 1 and had figured out what I was going to say, I was blocked from Talking Time. I got to work at 8:10 and had a sad.

Merus
05-30-2010, 01:44 AM
I am keeping a very close eye on people who are pushing for prime conversion targets to be scanned early so that the threat of scanning isn't over their heads. Just sayin'. shivam. Eddie.

I trust Destil because I know him well enough that 'the way he acts' is pretty much what I would do in his shoes. As soon as he starts not doing that, I'll be pretty quick to call for his scan - and frankly I don't want him, or Sprite, or myself, scanned too late.

Sprite's being noisy because there's no penalty to being quiet. We already know from previous games that smart players tend to talk a lot, while players that are trying to hide try and give the impression that they're talking as much as they can. I did a lot of this in Mafia 3, where I had a respectable post count on paper but very little of it was of any substance.

Remember that PRCY is actively trying to pick people we'd avoid scanning.

There's another dimension here you're missing: PRCY is also trying to build their team. Not everyone is as valuable a conversion target: for instance, Umby has a habit of looking really suspicious under pressure, even if he's clean. That's not someone you want on your side if you're trying to not look suspicious. Umby's a poor conversion target (though we'll likely want to scan him again at some point to make sure).

Rai, however, would be an excellent conversion target, and is probably a good candidate for a rescanning.

However, we need to be careful. We don't have a huge amount of time, and we also need to build a block of clean players. I'd be against rescanning for a few days, instead concentrating on confirming a few more people, but not so much that I'd argue against it.

Merus
05-30-2010, 01:54 AM
Destil's plan is that Sprite, him and I attracted a lot of heat yesterday, but haven't yet been proven clean. It would be a waste of a conversion if they converted us right before the pot boils, which means that we probably haven't been converted.

if I were to put myself in the Thing's/PRCYs shoes, I think you convert someone who you feel is the least likely to be scanned today.

This is pretty much what Destil's saying. As I said, I agree with his reasoning, though I think he expressed it suboptimally. That said, the pot's clearly boiled, so we're probably losing Destil to PRCY tonight.

As to who I want to scan? Hmm. Adam seems like a good pick, as a dude with his head on straight. I VOTE TO SCAN ADAM.

Paul le Fou
05-30-2010, 03:50 AM
Current votes:

Destil: 5
McClain7
Adam
shivam
Eddie
Bongo Bill

Adam: 2
Destil
Merus

Sprite: 1
dwolfe

Destil
05-30-2010, 09:46 AM
Bongo Bill I have no read on, as he hasn't posted much. Could someone who's played with him before give their thoughts?Bongo has really strong instincts and a good ability to hide what he's got going on in his head until it's relevant. He almost had several of us last game at one point way earlier than anyone else and it was only our ability to swing a vote that kept him off the trail for the next day.

Umby
05-30-2010, 10:24 AM
Umby! didn't have a vote in because he likes to pretend he has a life outside this spaceship.

I don't want to join the bandwagon, but since I helped start it, I vote for Destil. Sorry brah, I just think you're suspicious.

Bongo Bill
05-30-2010, 11:34 AM
It's a rather delicate situation in these games. Anybody should be happy to get scanned early on, but the longer we go, the more it becomes a waste of time to knowingly scan an innocent.

Paul, what's the word on self-voting, in case it ever comes up?

Bongo has really strong instincts and a good ability to hide what he's got going on in his head until it's relevant. He almost had several of us last game at one point way earlier than anyone else and it was only our ability to swing a vote that kept him off the trail for the next day.

Flatterer. I'm tempted to rescind my vote for you! But I won't.

McClain
05-30-2010, 12:43 PM
Bongo has very few posts so far, was MIA for the beginning, and has made scattershot votes. I'm keeping him on my radar.

Eddie
05-30-2010, 06:34 PM
I am keeping a very close eye on people who are pushing for prime conversion targets to be scanned early so that the threat of scanning isn't over their heads. Just sayin'. shivam. Eddie.

There should never be any situation where someone shouldn't be threatened by the prospect of being scanned. If we fail that, we give PRCY windows to infect people.

There's another dimension here you're missing: PRCY is also trying to build their team. Not everyone is as valuable a conversion target: for instance, Umby has a habit of looking really suspicious under pressure, even if he's clean. That's not someone you want on your side if you're trying to not look suspicious. Umby's a poor conversion target (though we'll likely want to scan him again at some point to make sure).

Rai, however, would be an excellent conversion target, and is probably a good candidate for a rescanning.

I agree that team building will be important for PRCY, but not this early. This early it's all about survival; us picking one, of now two infected targets, keeps them on a knife edge. This early, PRCY is trying to out think us, to try and infect someone that we wouldn't try and scan.

I wager it gets to three infected, then it starts worrying about team building.

However, we need to be careful. We don't have a huge amount of time, and we also need to build a block of clean players. I'd be against rescanning for a few days, instead concentrating on confirming a few more people, but not so much that I'd argue against it.

See, this is completely the wrong way to think of things.

A player that is scanned 'clean' is in fact, not really a good thing. Sure, there are things a player who is cleared in the first scan can say/do to the effect that we can trust them, but ultimately it means we've chosen poorly. PRCY's ability to infect players (regardless of how recently they've been scanned) means that there is no way to build a bloc of clean players. At most we can have one confirmed clean player at a time!

I'll put this another way: there is no practical difference in choosing to scan Rai or Umby over anyone else today. They stand the exact same chance of being infected as anyone other than patient zero.

That is basically the argument for going down the list of unscanned players, to hit patient zero (because we know for sure he wasn't Rai or Umby), but we don't actually have a higher chance of randomly hitting infected unless Rai and Umby are still clean today. In fact, our chance decreases from 2/13 to 1/15 if that's the case.

Well, I'll try and talk more about this tomorrow!

- Eddie

Sprite
05-30-2010, 07:09 PM
There should never be any situation where someone shouldn't be threatened by the prospect of being scanned. If we fail that, we give PRCY windows to infect people.
I don't think you're following his argument. The prime conversion targets are being threatened by the prospect of being scanned.
I agree that team building will be important for PRCY, but not this early. This early it's all about survival; us picking one, of now two infected targets, keeps them on a knife edge. This early, PRCY is trying to out think us, to try and infect someone that we wouldn't try and scan.
In other words, the prime conversion targets probably aren't PRCY's priority at the moment.

Who wouldn't we try to scan, Eddie? Who haven't we tried to scan? I have a list up-thread. Why do you think Destil is more likely to be infected at this point in the game, when PRCY is trying to infect people we don't want to scan? We've had cross-hairs on Destil since phase one. He's a risky target, as are Umby and Rai at this point. Yes, we'll need to scan risky targets, because if we didn't they wouldn't be risky anymore. However, you seem to want to scan all the risky targets, all the time, every scan. At what point are you going to diversify?

I'll put this another way: there is no practical difference in choosing to scan Rai or Umby over anyone else today. They stand the exact same chance of being infected as anyone other than patient zero.
Wrong. There are strategic reasons to infect either VCs or non-VCs, just as there are to re-scan or not to re-scan. Rai and Umby should not be immune to re-scans, by any means, but they are not the same as everyone else. We'll know that all VCs are not Patient Zero and that at least half of them will always be clean. We'll also know that their behavior up to that point has been that of a crew-member, and that we should watch their actions very carefully, marking how they act pre- and post-scan.

You're absolutely right that we can't build a bloc of clean players, but don't act like learning someone's Clean has no bearing on how they should be treated or watched. It does.

Anyway, while I'm pretty much with Merus on how things should go, Destil seems pretty likely for a scan right about now. Personally I'm leaning towards either namelessentity or Adam at the moment, so I'll probably push for one of them next phase. For now I guess I'll VOTE FOR ADAM TO BE SCANNED, since he's got votes. This cluster that Merus, Destil and I have going on is going to make things very interesting later on, I'm sure.

namelessentity
05-30-2010, 07:33 PM
Assuming PRCY is trying to build a team, and if I was PRCY that is definately what I would be thinking about, then during the day what they would be doing would be explain why it is soo unreasonable for them to convert power players. Try and prevent us from scanning people they eventually want to convert.

If this is the case, one of the people saying that we should hold off on scanning power players would be a Thing.

Of course, to except that theory, you would have to open yourself to a whole slew of double think. But because of that I'm looking at Eddie or Merus. Will hold off on a vote until more people start talking. We still haven't heard from Locit, Rai, or Nodal today, and plenty of other people just showed up for a quick vote

Adam
05-30-2010, 10:09 PM
A player that is scanned 'clean' is in fact, not really a good thing. Sure, there are things a player who is cleared in the first scan can say/do to the effect that we can trust them, but ultimately it means we've chosen poorly. PRCY's ability to infect players (regardless of how recently they've been scanned) means that there is no way to build a bloc of clean players. At most we can have one confirmed clean player at a time!

This is the truest thing we can get into everyone's head. If anyone is still arguing based on having a bloc, they're playing the wrong game.

It's a rather delicate situation in these games. Anybody should be happy to get scanned early on, but the longer we go, the more it becomes a waste of time to knowingly scan an innocent.

It is always a waste of time to knowingly scan an innocent. The best we can get from scanning an innocent is "well, I guess he wasn't trying to mislead us". I've already said what I think about people voting for themselves.

Don't scan me, scan Adam!

Yes, you got two votes yesterday, so PRCY would probably not convert you. However, I'm still operating on the idea that you are patient zero, and we would have won this thing yesterday were it not for the misapplication of technology (and whatever happened to Umby). Given that you think it's a fantastic idea to scan me, and given that I know that I'm not a PRCY, here's how I... wait a minute.

In my head: Crew scans Adam, not Destil. Adam is clean. Destil therefore takes advantage of the situation and PRCYs Adam tonight, since the way we're going, it's not likely we'll repeat scan Adam this early in the game.

But when I think about it, the second I'm scanned and made VC, you have to know I'm going gunning for your head. Even if this were some clever ruse to place me as PRCY with a clean scan behind him at the potential cost of sacrificing yourself, you couldn't have talked to PRCY2 to tell him what he needs to do.

If you're PRCY, then nominating me for the scan is like voting for yourself twice. If we Scan 1 you, you're dead. If we Scan 1 me, you're dead. I don't know if you're convoluted enough to see me piecing through this, so I have to admit, for the first time, I actually have some doubt about whether or not you're infected.

I guess we'll find out after the next scan, no?

locit
05-30-2010, 11:36 PM
This is the truest thing we can get into everyone's head. If anyone is still arguing based on having a bloc, they're playing the wrong game.
On this, I think, we can all agree.
If you're PRCY, then nominating me for the scan is like voting for yourself twice. If we Scan 1 you, you're dead. If we Scan 1 me, you're dead. I don't know if you're convoluted enough to see me piecing through this, so I have to admit, for the first time, I actually have some doubt about whether or not you're infected.

I guess we'll find out after the next scan, no?
Okay, I'd honestly like to hear this logic laid out a little more clearly. I think at this point in the game its legitimate to begin doing that with a little (and I mean a little) more confidence than when we started. If you have anything beyond "Well he nominated me and I'm certainly not PRCY!" I'd love to hear it. That goes for any theories anyone has out there, sirs.

Paul le Fou
05-30-2010, 11:59 PM
Paul, what's the word on self-voting, in case it ever comes up?

Fully allowed. Whether or not it's a good idea is up to you players!

shivam
05-31-2010, 12:26 AM
I dont understand what you mean, merus. Are you saying we shouldn't accuse suspicious people?

McClain
05-31-2010, 12:54 AM
Fully allowed. Whether or not it's a good idea is up to you players!

Oh man, voting for yourself would be soooo suspicious! I mean, it's totally a "look at me I'm clean!" move, and if you do it late in the voting after a block has formed, it'll just make it look like you were trying to deflect future votes from you. And if you did it and you really WERE clean, and you took away the scan, that'd just be a dick move. We've got to play offense here! Not voting to hunt the infected only helps the PRCY. I'd never trust someone who started doing that.


tl;dr: Self voting looks dirty, so you better be dirty.