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View Full Version : 10/1 Alternate: Sin and Punishment


Merus
10-01-2007, 04:33 AM
I downloaded Sin and Punishment from the VC because Nintendo decided to pull out briefly and give us something neat.

First thing: it's partially translated. The voice acting is all in English with Japanese subtitles, and I think this is as the original, and the menus and tutorials are all in English. I think this is actually a first for the VC: their policy, so far, has been to leave the games as intact as possible.

As for playing the game, it's actually a bit tricky. Fire and jump are shoulder buttons, strafing is done using the D-Pad, aiming is done using one of the control sticks, and you can swap between lock-on and manual aiming. The difference appears to be that manual aiming registers a hit every time you hit them, whereas lock-on only registers a hit when the enemy dies. You get a credit based on your hit-count, and you get a time extension every time you kill a 'commander' bad guy, which of course depends on the level you're on. It's fun, but sometimes you've got to be pressing like four buttons at once, which is ridiculous. It reminds me a lot of a light-gun game - you shoot enemies as they appear on screen, and when you kill them you move along to the next screen; but with the addition of strafing, which comes in to play a fair amount, as you move from scene to scene and when you avoid to bombs the bad guys throw.

So it's interesting, but it's a bit of a handful. It seems a lot like a Wii game ten years before the technology existed - I'd kind of like to see someone try and retrofit the game to take the Wiimote, as I'm sure it'd improve the somewhat clumsy controls.

Sprite
10-01-2007, 08:46 AM
First thing: it's partially translated. The voice acting is all in English with Japanese subtitles, and I think this is as the original, and the menus and tutorials are all in English. I think this is actually a first for the VC: their policy, so far, has been to leave the games as intact as possible.

Actually, I think that is leaving the game as intact as possible. I'm pretty sure the original game had English voice-overs and menus. Not sure about the tutorials, though.

Guy
10-01-2007, 09:06 AM
This sorta sounds like it might benefit from play using a Gamecube controller. Please experiment (I can't myself, I'm using my spare moneys to get Phantom Hourglass)

Positronic Brain
10-01-2007, 09:13 AM
I've had better luck by changing the controller layout so the character strafes by using L & R. Only drawback is that it makes harder to shoot and jump at the same time.

Oh, and this isn't an easy game. I can get past the third level (I'm playing at normal). I'm afraid I lack the eye/hand coordination for this thing - so! many! buttons! But it is fun, and as far as shooters go, not at all frustrating.

Calorie Mate
10-01-2007, 11:27 AM
I played it using a PS2 controller hooked up to my computer a year or two ago, and got pretty far. I remember the controls being a little wonky, and yeah, this would kick all kinds of ass if it was somehow retro fitted for the Wii Remote.

Just think of it as like Star Fox 64, but harder. That's not exactly accurate, but once I put myself in that mindset, it made the game easier for some reason.

Tomm Guycot
10-01-2007, 12:06 PM
The Japanese game was in English - that isn't a change.

Parish
10-01-2007, 12:09 PM
Thread hijacked for justice! You posted this before I could make it this week's alternate selection. So now it has been conscripted into the Fun Club Army.

SamuelMarston
10-01-2007, 12:27 PM
Sweet! I get to participate again!

This game is a trip.

chud_666
10-01-2007, 02:21 PM
The voice was in english, but the menus were all in japanese.

Funny story: I won the cart on an ebay auction, without really thinking about how I was going to play it in my US 64. All online mod guides were suggesting taking apart the deck. I opted to actally dremel the cartridge. The cartridges are identical except plastic nubs. The US carts look like there is little space on each side on the back, whereas the japanese ones have little slots with plastic on each side.

Mwahahahah

Positronic Brain
10-01-2007, 03:14 PM
This game is fun, but like any shooter it requires a fair amount of patience. The opening level was easy enough - but it's just a trick to make you think that you can handle the challenge ahead. Which you can't. Three days in and I'm still dying at the hands of the guy with the whip at the elevator shaft in level Three (any tips will be apreciated!).

Anyway, I can't fault the game for the challenge. (So far) the game plays fair within its rules: it's not that the enemies are cheap, all this dying is my fault for being unable to strafe, jump and shoot at the same time *sigh!* I need to practice, practice, practice.

Merus
10-01-2007, 04:54 PM
The Japanese game was in English - that isn't a change.
I'm just going off what the press release said - translated menus and tutorials. It kind of makes sense to have them in Japanese for the Japanese version, as there's no voice acting or anything other than the straight text.

Interestingly, I died on the whip guy too. Someone let us know when they manage to get past that guy.

Eusis
10-01-2007, 05:14 PM
Takes a bit to get used to it, but I think I figured out a good control scheme. I tried to play this like the other N64 VC titles, us the GC pad, the C stick functions with Y/X (not much choice this time around), and while I could play I kinda sucked and couldn't get used to it. Instead tried with the CC, using the D-Pad for moving and the right stick for shooting, and it works out a lot nicer. Got past that whip guy on 1-2 and now I think I'm at the big boss fight or something. Keep getting my ass kicked though.

chud_666
10-01-2007, 05:43 PM
Always remember when you tap shoot you will use your gunblade as a sword and kill close enemies or reflect certain projectiles back at your target. The blue taregting systme is easier to do this with as it locks on, but remeber the red aiming system does not lock on but is stronger. Anyway I believe the whip guy can be felled with the gunblade technique. In the stages ahead a lot of guys need to be repelled with the blade

Merus
10-01-2007, 06:14 PM
Aw, really? I can never get that blade to work right.

chud_666
10-01-2007, 06:21 PM
Ok Whip guy or Lizard Seemer - hit 'a' (on classic controller default control) and it will go to blue cursor / lock on mode. Put cursor on whip dude and it will lock on with gold cursor. Basically just avoid attacks and lay into him. If he gets close tap L for the blade attack.

Also when you have a gold lock on any reflected attacks will gravitate towars the target

You will need to use the blade to fight the bosses on the top of the elevator - the behemoth looking thing will need to be pushed off teh edge with successive sword strikes ( this part is in side scrolling 2d)

The girl you fight afterwards will need to be hit with a single (in default mode anyway) sword strike when she rushes at you. The timing is actually pretty generous so give er a run

Excitemike
10-01-2007, 10:03 PM
I only got to send 20 minutes with it, but I'm intrigued. I'm having a hard time with the CC. I keep wanting to move with the left stick. The gameplay is addictive enough that I'm willing to bear with it.

What's up with the story? I turned into an EVA and then I died.

Eusis
10-01-2007, 10:06 PM
I like the charm Treasure stories have, but I can't pretend to actually know what the fuck is going on sometimes, especially with this game. Anyways, give the D-pad a shot and use the right stick for aiming. It's easier to get adjusted to than Y/X or whatever.

In fact, that makes me kinda wish it were remade using a standard controller rather than the Wii Remote. Use a button to dash in whatever direction you're pressing and whatnot, I was trying to double tap Y/X for that but it's done while I'm moving usually so I think it kinda fucks up instead.

gamin
10-01-2007, 11:15 PM
So apparently you're, like, this rebel group, fighting some guy who took over Japan with alien powers. And the main character has these powers too. And apparently blood was exchanged (?!) with the girls so they have powers too. And then you turn into Gojira and then the girls fly around on a detached part of a carrier.

Awesome.

So I'm a pansy and starting it out on Easy, and I've managed to get to the point where the big spaceship launches something at Saki and I assume you have to destroy it before it reaches him? But I can't do much damage and then I get really close to Saki and everything explodes, killing me. Not sure what I can do here.

Just starting from Easy, I want to eventually get to the hardest mode little by little--this is a very fun game, well worth repeating and memorizing.

Merus
10-01-2007, 11:55 PM
This is a Treasure game - there is no shame in playing on Easy.

Red Hedgehog
10-02-2007, 01:54 AM
This game is seriously awesome. It definitely isn't one of those "It was never brought to the US so it must be great!" that I got soured on in my early days of emulation. The action is just great. I imagine my hands would get less cramped with an N64 controller, but the classic works fine.

I couldn't stop playing this once I started. The game starts out simple enough, with a real Space Harrier feel. It also gradually works you into to doing more complex things like jumping and rolling which are just great. By the fourth level or so, everything felt fairly second nature and I was dodging and weaving while shooting like no one's business. I also like how the game really does make you switch between aim modes - keeping it on lock on or manual all the time will make certain parts very hard (or impossible).

The story is just messed up bizarre - sort of your typical near future sci-fi anime fare, but not quite explained well enough to give you a great sense of why thing are happening or what peoples' motivations are.

The final boss fight is truly epic. I like how your health is never really in danger, only that of the earth. I'm also glad there are so many things to shoot there, because I definitely needed to earn my continues in order to get past it. Still, the thrill of successfully protecting the earth and destroying the false one was great. Have people seriously gotten a perfect on that battle? I couldn't believe that bonus point category was there.

Tomorrow I'll see if I can get through the game on normal mode...

So I'm a pansy and starting it out on Easy, and I've managed to get to the point where the big spaceship launches something at Saki and I assume you have to destroy it before it reaches him? But I can't do much damage and then I get really close to Saki and everything explodes, killing me. Not sure what I can do here.

You'll need to use manual aiming instead of lock-on aiming to destroy it. Your gun does significantly more damage in manual mode and this is needed to do enough damage to it to destroy it before the explosion.

ArugulaZ
10-02-2007, 05:28 AM
Some thoughts, observations, and questions about the game...

* The graphics are from the Nintendo 64 era, so I can understand why there's a lot of rough edges. But why on earth do the characters look like they were pulled from The Dark Crystal? The gangly bodies and cavernous brown eyes seriously creep me out.

* There are a whole lot of bosses, which is a trademark of any Treasure game. I like how they handled most of these fights, though... simply pumping the foes full of lead or aiming for a weak spot isn't enough. The battle against [spoiler] the villain's cat was especially memorable, but who the heck sends their favorite pet into battle against rebels armed with lasers, swords, and the sharpest elbows this side of Paris Hilton?

* While the graphics are dated, the special effects certainly aren't. Check out those crazy, screen-filling, semi-transparent explosions!

* I'm rather intimidated by the controls. It's one of those rare cases when I wish Nintendo had used the Wii's motion sensitivity. Use the wand to aim the laser, hold down the trigger underneath to fire, press the A button to switch from standard shot to homing shot and back, and use the nunchuck to move your character and jump. What could be better?

* I always get a kick out of these games that take place in the future, because it always ends up becoming the past. Check out the alarm clock in the opening cinema... the events in the game took place four months ago!

le geek
10-02-2007, 07:32 AM
Time to dust off my N64...

Red Hedgehog
10-03-2007, 12:23 AM
So I just tried the game on Normal tonight. I was able to get about 2/3 of the way through the "flying around the battleships" level before running out of continues.

The biggest differences I've noticed are that there are a few more enemies, some bosses have slightly different patterns, and time is much more of a factor (probably because your shots do less damage).

Verdict: Game still awesome.

Sporophyte
10-03-2007, 12:27 AM
I'll jump on the "this game is awesome" bandwagon. I'd never played it before but I beat it on easy this evening. I love the bosses and the feel of the controls, though they do take some getting used to. But that story, just wow. Reading others' comments about it can't do it justice.

alexb
10-03-2007, 01:18 AM
Hey, that thing in the tutorial... Isn't that Melon Bread from Gunstar Heroes?

alexb
10-04-2007, 03:40 PM
Nobody's playing this? Come on, guys.

ringworm
10-04-2007, 04:00 PM
I will be grabbing it tonight, had to finish Bioshock before moving on to something else non-portable.

Red Hedgehog
10-04-2007, 04:30 PM
I can now get up to the rock monster in the future illusion without continuing on Normal mode. I will continue playing as far as I can before getting Game Over.

gamin
10-04-2007, 05:26 PM
Beat Easy, and so now I'm tackling Normal. They do some clever things to trick you into a false sense of familiarity from Easy and then suddenly dashing them with unexpected new enemies and attacks. Feels like they actually put a lot of thought into how someone would progress between difficulty modes instead of just making you hit for more or less damage or adding larger swarms of enemies.

vaterite
10-04-2007, 09:51 PM
I was skeptical at first, (for some reason the screen-shots turned me off) but, echoing everyone else's thoughts, I think this game is quite sweet.

It definitely gives me the feeling of those old arcade on-rail shooters, but so far I've had enough trouble with just the limited movement they've allowed me. Maybe I should imagine it's the tunnel level from Contra.

OK, going back to play.

Positronic Brain
10-05-2007, 05:39 AM
Um, the manual says something about co-op mode. Has anyone tried it yet? I'm afraid I'm one controller short...

Red Hedgehog
10-06-2007, 01:42 AM
Awesome, I beat the game on normal mode without ever getting a game over (note - not one-crediting it). I also realize that if you can make it to the final boss, you will never get a game over since you have to kill at least 200 things in the course of destroying it. I'm not sure if I dare try hard mode.

GoldBronco
10-06-2007, 06:51 AM
I got Sin & Punishment for the VC on Wednesday, I guess it would be my first import game (depending if you count VC downloads as such), and I truly enjoy it. When I play it however, I find it very hard to believe that it is a n64 game. Maybe it's the cleaned up visuals, but the graphics are amazing by N64 standards. Being my second treasure game (gunstar heroes is the first), I'm totally into the the fast-paced, boss-loaded shootfest. I really hope that Nintendo keeps up with giving us gems like this on the virtual console.

This game marks the 1000th time I've seen (spoiler!) Japan destroyed in some form of media. Do the Japanese not even like Japan or something? They seem to show their country being destroyed by demons/explosions/Godzilla more than any outside country shows Japan being destroyed.

Awesome game nonetheless.

vaterite
10-06-2007, 07:04 AM
This game marks the 1000th time I've seen (spoiler!) Japan destroyed in some form of media. Do the Japanese not even like Japan or something? They seem to show their country being destroyed by demons/explosions/Godzilla more than any outside country shows Japan being destroyed.

I think they're a little sensitive after that whole "we dropped nuclear bombs on them" thing.

GoldBronco
10-06-2007, 08:24 AM
Any kind of fictitious destruction of Japan looks better than what was done in World War II. I'm learning all about the psychology about dropping the bomb in my honors college class. Not happy stuff.

On a lighter note, fighting a cat as a boss in Sin and Punishment= totally freaking awesome.

Gredlen
10-06-2007, 12:19 PM
The coop in Sin and Punishment consists of one player controlling the movements and the other controlling the shooting/slashing. Not having a Wii of my own, I got the chance to play (and beat) this game with a friend yesterday. Good stuff.
It is so much easier when you only have to concentrate on one aspect of the game. I managed to destroy that missile that was going to hit Saki with automatic targeting, but damn. My friend and I burned through about 20 credits before we each decided to take a turn trying it solo. He failed, but I got a good feeling!
My friend neglected to tell me that automatic was weaker, so I ended up using automatic targeting for the entire game. Until the last boss, where manual just made more sense.

le geek
10-06-2007, 03:35 PM
Alrighty,

Finally had a moment to hook up my N64 and give Sin & Punishment another go. I picked it up when it came out, but only played it once or twice to try it out, then put it back on the shelf.

I'm pretty impressed! I love the style of the game and it's nice to play a straight up action game. Even playing with the N64 controller I still get tripped up between jumping and dashing. I made it to the part where you play as the second character and are chasing the robot rolling the ball away from you (where jumping and dashing are kind of important).

I'm pretty sure I am playing on easy...

Cheers,
Ben

le geek
10-06-2007, 05:30 PM
Alrighty, 2nd session...

Definitely did a lot better having gotten a handle on the controls. Hmm, think Treasure watched Evangelion much???? I've made to the train levels before having to take a break.

BTW The air craft carrier level is all kinds of awesome.

This may be my second favorite Treasure game (after Gunstar)...

Cheers,
Ben

Positronic Brain
10-07-2007, 12:15 PM
I'm stuck at the carrier level (my fault - I always forget I can jump, which made the first fight with the cat/walking-anime-cliche quite frustrating -_- ) and I agree: it's all kind of awesome. That level alone makes this game the best 1200 points I've ever spent! Why didn't they release this game in America, again? Too late into the N64's lifecycle?

I always get a kick out of these games that take place in the future, because it always ends up becoming the past. Check out the alarm clock in the opening cinema... the events in the game took place four months ago!

So that's why Tokyo disappeared in a sea of blood four months ago!

SamuelMarston
10-07-2007, 06:57 PM
Is there some way to duck?

alexb
10-07-2007, 07:15 PM
No, but rolling works in a similar fashion. I liked Leda, but I don't think she was a cat. I think she was some kind of rat like creature, possibly another transformed person.

Red Hedgehog
10-07-2007, 08:27 PM
No, but rolling works in a similar fashion. I liked Leda, but I don't think she was a cat. I think she was some kind of rat like creature, possibly another transformed person.

The story is impossible to follow, but I'm pretty sure she was another transformed person. Achi makes some comment about Brad experimenting on his friends. And I totally thought Leda was a cat-like creature. If nothing else, she meows.

Red Hedgehog
10-07-2007, 08:28 PM
No, but rolling works in a similar fashion. I liked Leda, but I don't think she was a cat. I think she was some kind of rat like creature, possibly another transformed person.

The story is impossible to follow, but I'm pretty sure she was another transformed person. Achi makes some comment about Brad experimenting on his friends. And I totally thought Leda was a cat-like creature. If nothing else, she meows.