PDA

View Full Version : Fun Club 7: Orange Box - Portal


Parish
10-10-2007, 12:45 AM
I hear tell this game is gol-durn amazing.

Merus
10-10-2007, 07:01 AM
You heard right, it is gol-durn amazing, and just the right size for an episodic game.

So, uh, it maybe would have been nice to run it as an episode instead of delaying it and your 'episodic series' to come out at the same time as your multiplayer game that's been in the works for as long as Duke Nukem Forever has?

Anyway, I finished it just now - there's some lovely lines throughout, and the credit sequence is great fun. Valve once again prove they're probably the most adept company at storytelling in an interactive medium: [minor spoilers]there's a few spots later on where Aperture is linked to Black Mesa through a Powerpoint slideshow that's still running, and the way the game changes about halfway through says a lot about what's happened to Apeture Science and sets the scene almost perfectly - there is an explanation for the setting that you can piece together from what you're given, but a lot of it is implicit, derived from the level design more than anything. There's one thing I found very impressive in the latter half of the game - the game provides hints as to where to go, and you eventually find the hiding place of the person who left them, long since abandoned.[/minor spoilers] Interestingly, the female voiceover that's probably Portal's most distinctive part doesn't play much of a role in establishing the plot - mostly it's there to make the levels feel less empty, which is probably why they're funnier than is normal for the Half-Life universe.

That said, the game never quite informs you of the 'deal' with your character in the way that the Half-Life series does - I expect this stuff will be filled in in later games, but still I would have liked a little bit more there. The ending also disappointed me a little - [ending spoilers]I would have liked to walk around outside a little instead of seeing a screen of me laying on my side in the parking lot.[/ending spoilers] But that's okay, I'm familiar with Valve's style, so I really shouldn't be too surprised.

Oh, I totally forgot to mention the Weighted Companion Cube! That was a brilliant touch.

djSyndrome
10-10-2007, 07:32 AM
Oh well :( (http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product_id=270019)

Mr. Sensible
10-10-2007, 07:42 AM
Anyone else doing the Advanced maps yet? I'm totally stuck on Test 18 and am beginning to think it is simply broken.

Edit: Never mind; it's not broken, just incredibly difficult. I seem to be making progress now. Be warned that the Advanced Chambers may claim your soul and mind as their own...

Vicious Parker
10-10-2007, 11:46 AM
I absolutely loved this game. I'm really hoping that some clever modders can come up with some craaazy new levels. I just completed the main game and I'ma get at the advanced stuff later.

The credits sequence made me giggle uncontrollably.

Schmidt
10-10-2007, 12:52 PM
It would be impossible to overstate how great this game is.

Uh-oh, somebody cut the cake. I told them to wait for you, but they did it anyway. There is still some left though, if you hurry back.

Francis
10-10-2007, 02:02 PM
Anyone else doing the Advanced maps yet? I'm totally stuck on Test 18 and am beginning to think it is simply broken.

Edit: Never mind; it's not broken, just incredibly difficult. I seem to be making progress now. Be warned that the Advanced Chambers may claim your soul and mind as their own...

The advanced levels aren't too bad, but most of the Challenges have left me a shattered and broken husk of a man. Especially Least Steps. Christ on a cracker.

The game itself is fantastic, one of those pure nuggets of excellence you burn through like a movie and enjoy every second of. They could have added more of a plot, or more Advanced levels as part of the main storyline, but that would have just bogged it down. More than anything, though, what elevates this title from great to spectacular is the endgame. Action-puzzlers (and, well, FPS in general) are notorious for fizzling out at the end or failing to deliver, but Valve's attention to detail (and, it bears repeating, the dialogue) pulls through.

Jeanie
10-10-2007, 02:15 PM
This is the one game where I wish I could see the credits again without having to do the last part over again.

*Edit* Yay for YouTube. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RthZgszykLs)

Jakanden
10-10-2007, 02:17 PM
Having really enjoyed Narbacular Drop, this is one of the main things I am eager to play on the Orange Box.

reibeatall
10-10-2007, 03:24 PM
I seriously need help, guys.

I'm fighing the AI right now, and I can't get the ball that's floating in mid-air. I've tried portal jumping there, but I can never catch it. Is there something I'm not seeing?

poetfox
10-10-2007, 03:30 PM
Finished it, playing it through again with the commentary on. (why don't more game companies do this? It's awesome.)

One thing it took me until the endgame to notice because I wasn't paying attention was the fact that my character doesn't appear to have working legs...? She's got these digigrade metal feet hooked to the back of her legs, and she's just standing on her toes... I really don't know why they would do that if it wasn't significant, but I can't figure out why.
Also, I took the ending as me being completely screwed... I feel like I would have gotten up if I could, and the fact that I was just lying there probably means it's going to take someone helping me, or I'm going to die, after all that... again, I feel like Valve is smart enough with this stuff that there has to be a reason for that... a tie-in with Ep. 2? Or was the Black Mesa references what was being referred to? I dunno.

Also, I can see myself telling people that the cake is a lie for quite some time to come... basically any time cake is mentioned.

Rei: Just keep trying. You're just getting unlucky. There's no special trick or anything. If it helps, you can just sort of knock it out of the air with your body, if you'd like to try for that instead.

pence
10-10-2007, 03:34 PM
The ending credit sequence is now on my iPod. If only I could get the ASCII cake in there with it.

reibeatall
10-10-2007, 03:36 PM
Right after I posted needing help, I got it first try.

The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie.
I also love this game. I haven't tried any of the advanced stuff, because I've got homework and then real work, but man, this game was cool.

Jeanie
10-10-2007, 04:57 PM
I just got the Camera Shy achievement on the PC. There's 3 in the room where you get the Portal gun that people may miss.

Mr. Sensible
10-10-2007, 04:59 PM
I absolutely loved this game. I'm really hoping that some clever modders can come up with some craaazy new levels.

In spite of sounding cliche, I really believe the possibilities are pretty much endless with Portal. What I'd really like to see are more wide open maps with larger, more intricate structures, like some twisted MC Escher castle. But Portal does seem to take a bigger chunk out of my PC performance than vanilla HL2...so maybe it's not such a great idea.

Still, I'd love to see just about anyone's Portal maps right now. My brain is geared for potential portal placement now. I need to get it out of my system.

Adrenaline
10-10-2007, 05:07 PM
Played most of it in one sitting before running to class, then came back and finished. I loved every bit. How many games can say they have adorable turrets? What was annoying though, was the narrator's voice wasn't playing the first time I was going through, and I wasn't sure if I was supposed to hear it or not. I ended up switching the language to French and then back to English, which worked (although it required two program restarts), and then played through again back to where I was (where you first meet the turrets).

It was kind of short, but that's fine, there's still the challenges, commentary, and whatever everyone makes in the mod community.

How long does it take to get the fall 30,000 feet achievement? I put myself in a small loop for a couple minutes and it didn't trigger.

Torgo
10-10-2007, 05:14 PM
But Portal does seem to take a bigger chunk out of my PC performance than vanilla HL2...so maybe it's not such a great idea.
So I'm not the only one who's getting a bogged down framerate in Portal? I'm playing it windowed 800x600. Anything higher and my fps chugs.

Schmidt
10-10-2007, 05:20 PM
My frame rate was ok until the final boss fight against Tommy Hawk.

edit: That was supposed to be a Prey joke, but now I can't remember if that was actually his name in the game or just a joke someone else made, so it's probably a lame joke.

Torgo
10-10-2007, 05:22 PM
I just find it ironic that of all the stuff in the Orange Box to play system hog, the puzzle game is the one to do it.

Schmidt
10-10-2007, 05:46 PM
GLaDOS is a resource hog. Making all those shoes for orphans in the background while you're playing is resource intensive.

Savathun
10-10-2007, 05:51 PM
My frame rate was ok until the final boss fight against Tommy Hawk.

edit: That was supposed to be a Prey joke, but now I can't remember if that was actually his name in the game or just a joke someone else made, so it's probably a lame joke.

I don't even know if he had a last name and I just played that game yesterday.

He did have a hawk, though. It doesn't help that the villain keeps referring to him by a different name, either.

dangerhelvetica
10-10-2007, 06:07 PM
I think I'm in love with GLaDOS.

Merus
10-10-2007, 08:25 PM
The writer of the ending song - now the cat is out of the bag - is Jonathon Coulton, who specialises in songs with unlikely premises like a supervillian trying to impress a girl with his fancy robot lair, or a former co-worker who was a bit of a dick trying to negotiate with you to let him and the rest of the zombies in. He's particularly good at sweet-sounding songs that have a huge undercurrent of darkness.

The turrets are very cool, and probably all the spookier for being upbeat and playful. "There you are." "Are you still there?" "I don't blame you." "Whyyyy"

Going through again with the developer commentary on, I discovered the duck button, and noticed that there's a few places in the later test chambers where there are little hovels of former test subjects - my favourite is the one in the Companion Cube level, where all the writing on the walls is regarding how awful it was to lose it. I just find it fascinating that you can get attached to a box just like every other box in the game except it's pink and has a heart on it.

I believe the devices on your character's feet are supposed to explain why she does not take fall damage.

Jeanie
10-10-2007, 08:32 PM
The writer of the ending song - now the cat is out of the bag - is Jonathon Coulton, who specialises in songs with unlikely premises like a supervillian trying to impress a girl with his fancy robot lair, or a former co-worker who was a bit of a dick trying to negotiate with you to let him and the rest of the zombies in. He's particularly good at sweet-sounding songs that have a huge undercurrent of darkness.

The turrets are very cool, and probably all the spookier for being upbeat and playful. "There you are." "Are you still there?" "I don't blame you." "Whyyyy"

Going through again with the developer commentary on, I discovered the duck button, and noticed that there's a few places in the later test chambers where there are little hovels of former test subjects - my favourite is the one in the Companion Cube level, where all the writing on the walls is regarding how awful it was to lose it. I just find it fascinating that you can get attached to a box just like every other box in the game except it's pink and has a heart on it.

I believe the devices on your character's feet are supposed to explain why she does not take fall damage.

One of the first commentaries mention the leg thingies are why there is no falling damage. My favorite part of the companion cube level is the pinup callendar with the cube pasted over the head.

The sentry guns are great and I wish someone would make a mod for Half-Life 2 that replaces the sentry guns with the ones from Portal.

Schmidt
10-10-2007, 08:52 PM
...who specialises in songs with unlikely premises like a supervillian trying to impress a girl with his fancy robot lair...

I read that as "fancy robot hair" at first, and I could see JC doing almost as easily. I caught a bit of his performance at PAX (we've talked about this already, haven't we?) and I really love his Mandelbrot song.

Paul le Fou
10-10-2007, 10:08 PM
My word. I suppose I should start paying attention to what the fun club selection is playing before I go and post about a game.

How long does it take to get the fall 30,000 feet achievement? I put myself in a small loop for a couple minutes and it didn't trigger.

I was in a pretty long loop, and it took sort of a while. I'd recommend finding the tallest loopable spot you can (I used one in, wanna say 16, but 18 has a good one too, I think), set myself up to fall, and did something else. It was probably like 5-7 minutes. (Considering that 30,000 feet is almost 6 miles...)


I just find it ironic that of all the stuff in the Orange Box to play system hog, the puzzle game is the one to do it.

You had trouble running Peggle? :P

Also, where do the terms/names GLaD and GLaDOS come from? I caught GLaD in the end credits but didn't see them referenced elsewhere.


Anyway, in the proper spot now:

Having anxiously pounced on this game as soon as steam unlocked it last night, I have to say, I'm not disappointed at all.

It's one of those rare games that re-imagines and reinvents gameplay with actual new concepts, on the order of Shadow of the Colossus or Katamari, and it succeeds in creating an actual new experience. I know it's not the first submersive puzzle game experience (Ico and Shadow themselves can be considered similar) but the portal conceit and gameplay are so distinctly unique and effective it becomes one of those games that's hard to categorize, in a good way.

And it's not just fun... it's funny. The voice of the announcer/overseer robot lends a lot of humor and character to a game whose only other occupant is the mute cardboard cutout you control. And the ending song (Warning: Spoilers? For the end boss fight and finale to the game) is one of the best I've heard/seen in a game in years.

It's not perfect, of course: It's short, for one. Really short. Even with bonus levels and achievements, there just isn't a whole lot of content. It' also falls very heavily on the easy side - once you grasp the concept of casting the portals and what you can do with them, none of the puzzles present too much difficulty, and in most situations your options are limited so it won't (shouldn't) take you too long to figure out exactly what you need to do. Many of the puzzles felt similar to those from the original Half-Life 2: OK, we have this new (Physics/gameplay) engine... what do we do with it? There wasn't much imagination to the end result of the puzzles, all of the reinvention came in designing the game concept in the first place, and in the end the gameplay was a fairly simple application thereof. Finally, much like ICO, there's an "end boss" fight that seems rather tacked on, a little out-of-synch with the rest of the gameplay - not bad on its own, just a rather drastic shift and right at the end, making it feel a little disjointed.

Anyway, if you had any doubts about the Orange box, let this assuage those - Portal is the most fun thing in there. TF2 is a great multiplayer FPS, and Half-life 2 is, well, half-life 2, but there really is nothing like Portal. Just because of the length it may not be worth its stand-alone price tag, but as part of the Orange Box it's just one more reason to spring for it, as if you needed another.

Now we just have to wait for more user-generated content and hope they can figure out something that works as well as the original.

bobservo
10-10-2007, 10:24 PM
I have problems with 2-D block pushing puzzles so I imagine this game will soon kill me.

Jeanie
10-10-2007, 10:37 PM
No, the pushing is really rather minor. It's mostly "how do I get over there?" puzzles. The few Blocks you have to move are rather easy and you can pick up the blocks to move with you.

reibeatall
10-10-2007, 10:39 PM
No, the pushing is really rather minor. It's mostly "how do I get over there?" puzzles. The few Blocks you have to move are rather easy and you can pick up the blocks to move with you.

I love the Companion Cube.

Schmidt
10-10-2007, 10:42 PM
The companion cube can not talk to you. If the companion cube talks to you, do not take its advice.

Jeanie
10-10-2007, 10:46 PM
I love the Companion Cube.

Everyone loves the Companion Cube. One guy a little too much.

But I hate the Companion Sphere. Like full-on, Kefka from FFVI level of hate. Wait until you have to bounce energy spheres off of it, over a wall, and into a collector perpendicular to its normal path.

Daydreamer
10-10-2007, 11:20 PM
Also stuck on Map 18 - specifically the multiple giant jump part - can't seem to get enough horizontal momentum to avoid taking a bath. A little help please?

Jeanie
10-10-2007, 11:26 PM
Also stuck on Map 18 - specifically the multiple giant jump part - can't seem to get enough horizontal momentum to avoid taking a bath. A little help please?

The part with several platforms that get higher and higher? Because you're supposed to fling yourself out of the portal with enough height to shoot the next platform with the the other side of the gun, so when you fall back in, the exit is on the next platform.

reibeatall
10-10-2007, 11:32 PM
Dear Valve, Re: The 3rd Advanced Map

Fuck you.

XOXO
-Andy

Jeanie
10-10-2007, 11:46 PM
I just did the advanced map with all the sentries in cages. You can take a hell a lot of rounds without dying, especially if you crouch behind a sentry and let it block some. "Don't shoot! It's me!" So cute, so disturbing.

Re: the 3rd advance map
It's now my bitch. The hardest part is there at the beginning when you have to do the looped fall and hit that small square so you can fling yourself. After that just take your time and its easy.

Merus
10-11-2007, 12:42 AM
As someone has mentioned, Portal is the spiritual sequel to a student game called Narbacular Drop that I played about three years ago. I'm sure there's something to say about the industry there, that Valve had this concept to themselves for three years, but I'm more forgiving than I once was and don't really consider it a failing that only one company really saw this game and felt there were rich gameplay seams to be mined from it. It's harder than it looks.

I wonder if Valve is gathering the information it discovers from playtesting its games and compiling it? I'd be fascinated if they were building a bible for game design that meant they could implement a gameplay system once and know how the testers would respond to it.

Paul le Fou
10-11-2007, 01:14 AM
I am enjoying this discussion of Valve's 'new innovation' because Portal is the spiritual sequel to a student game called Narbacular Drop that I played about three years ago. I'm sure there's something to say about the industry there, that Valve had this concept to themselves for three years, but I'm more forgiving than I once was and don't really consider it a failing that only one company really saw this game and felt there were rich gameplay seams to be mined from it. It's harder than it looks.

I wonder if Valve is gathering the information it discovers from playtesting its games and compiling it? I'd be fascinated if they were building a bible for game design that meant they could implement a gameplay system once and know how the testers would respond to it.

I'm pretty sure the Narbacular Drop people were tapped by Valve to make the game. In the Commentary playthrough, the very first comment box has one of the production team mention "Narbacular drop, our student project which became Portal." So at least a few of the people who created the original game are directly involved in this version (don't know how many people worked on the first vs. this one).

Also, Playing through with texture detail on high helps because you can actually see/read the scrawled writing on the walls in the little alcoves. The cake is a lie, and all the companion cube level stuff... it also let me see the projector display clearly. I was able to read Black Mesa before, but it also spelled out the acronym GLaDOS, and had a few funny jabs at Black mesa (I like the graph).



It struck me on my second playthrough, though, how few real levels there are. By the time you actually get all of the gameplay concepts, you're well over halfway done with the numbered stages, and only then do the puzzles start getting particularly challenging (or challenging at all, really). At the beginning of the commentary, one of the producers mentions wanting to hear feedback because they intend to do more with the gameplay concept, and it seemed to me that that reinforces the feeling I was getting that Portal as we know it is mostly a tech demo for how a game like this could play with a little bit of game tacked on for good measure. This doesn't make it less brilliant, just a little less fulfilling.

Torgo
10-11-2007, 01:32 AM
My understand has been that the Portal team is the Narbacular Drop team. Valve got wind of what they were doing and liked it, so they snatched them up before someone else got to them.

I'm on Testchamber 18. I'm digging it.

Merus
10-11-2007, 03:15 AM
That's why I said it was a spiritual sequel - the implication was that it was pretty much the same team, just supplemented with all that Half-Life money and resources. And PR, but then we're kind of getting into that 'bitter about the games industry' territory, which is ridiculous where a game that provides, at the least, about 6 hours of fun for the price of a movie ticket and a large combo is considered too short.

I felt it was about the right length, really, because once I got to the sewers I pretty much felt like I'd got it and was playing to get to the end. And the sewers are right next to the last area, so that didn't last too long.

Edit: I've cracked all but two advanced maps - the sentry gun map and the final map. With the sentry guns, I'm stuck at the section where there are two sentries crossing the hall - I think I see where the next safe area is, but I get nailed well before I reach there. With the last map, I'm stuck just after the beginning - I can fling myself to the next island easily enough, but I don't see any way to get myself up the wall beyond that.

I also haven't managed any of the time trials - perhaps I'm missing a run button.

Adrenaline
10-11-2007, 07:25 AM
Also, where do the terms/names GLaD and GLaDOS come from?

I actually only saw the name GLaDOS in the commentary.

I made the advanced maps my bitch, but I don't think I'm really going to try the other challenges. F that noise.

Merus, While you're flinging yourself over, shoot a portal on to the next level up.

Savathun
10-11-2007, 07:55 AM
This is pretty much the only game I want from the Orange Box (God, I hate that name. It strikes me as really obnoxious, even though I'm sure no one else thinks so. Maybe I was abused by orange boxes as a child, I don't know).

After watching the ending on youtube, there's really no way I can avoid playing this now. That's probably the best ending for an FPS I can think of. I completely lost my, ah, "shit," on the part where she sings "I've experiments to run, there is research to be done... on the people who are still alive." Priceless.

pence
10-11-2007, 08:08 AM
With the last map, I'm stuck just after the beginning - I can fling myself to the next island easily enough, but I don't see any way to get myself up the wall beyond that.

The final map's advanced mode is a beast; me and a friend solved it cooperatively (using the in-game chat feature). To get past the first part, I had to use portals as survaillance. You can even poke your head through a blue portal, shoot a new orange portal, and duck back through to the blue side, advancing through a level like that. It's a skill you never really have to use in the normal game.

Paul le Fou
10-11-2007, 09:11 AM
Maybe it's because I haven't slept, but the last advanced puzzle is just whupping me fiercely. I should come back when my cognitive abilities will let me do more than lie down and assume the party escort submission position.

Jeanie
10-11-2007, 09:15 AM
Edit: I've cracked all but two advanced maps - the sentry gun map and the final map. With the sentry guns, I'm stuck at the section where there are two sentries crossing the hall - I think I see where the next safe area is, but I get nailed well before I reach there.

Re: the sentry gun problem.
If you're stuck where I think you're stuck (with the two sentry guns facing each other in the short hallway right by the Rat Man room), how I remember passing that part is shooting a portal over the one on the right, jumping through and down, ducking behind it (you WILL get shot. Lots over the rest of the map, but as long as it's not to fast you can take it.), shooting a portal behind the next set of sentries, and then (here's where my memory is a little fuzzy) either being able to connect the portal from there or making a mad dash back to the Rat Man room area and connecting there.

Paul le Fou
10-11-2007, 09:25 AM
Re: the sentry gun problem.
If you're stuck where I think you're stuck (with the two sentry guns facing each other in the short hallway right by the Rat Man room), how I remember passing that part is shooting a portal over the one on the right, jumping through and down, ducking behind it (you WILL get shot. Lots over the rest of the map, but as long as it's not to fast you can take it.), shooting a portal behind the next set of sentries, and then (here's where my memory is a little fuzzy) either being able to connect the portal from there or making a mad dash back to the Rat Man room area and connecting there.

I was never able to make a mad dash up the hall between two guns, either way. With both of 'em beating on you you can hardly move, don't stand a chance. I did the same and shot the portal above the further one, dropped on top/behind it and just booked it along the hallway's outer wall for the spot behind the two diagonal ones.

Jeanie
10-11-2007, 09:52 AM
The final map's advanced mode is a beast; me and a friend solved it cooperatively (using the in-game chat feature). To get past the first part, I had to use portals as survaillance. You can even poke your head through a blue portal, shoot a new orange portal, and duck back through to the blue side, advancing through a level like that. It's a skill you never really have to use in the normal game.

Also from platform 2, next to the wall you can shoot is a metal block sticking out that you can stand on. Makes it easy to get across. Now those damn Sentry guns are kicking my butt.

dangerhelvetica
10-11-2007, 12:31 PM
I was pleased to discover there are very few moments when you've gotten yourself into an impossible position. Of course, there are plenty when you ccan kill yourself, and I did repeatedly. But never was I in a situation where I was still alive and it was completely impossible to escape. This is a very impressive feat, considering the complexity of the game. Also, there were only one or two moments when I felt like I was completely "stuck" and had to ask elsewhere for advice, and even those situations I'm sure if I were a little bit more patient I would have been able to determine the solution.

In other words, it's very well designed. And despite the fact that it's structured as a series of tests, something that would normally be boring as hell, with the computer voice around and the "storyline" (again, presented in the usual show-not-tell Valve form) I felt compelled to progress. I wanted to know if I would get that cake. I wanted to know why there were nobody in the test viewing booths. I wanted to know what connection this had to the larger Half-Life world. And those little enclaves where test subjects had borrowed their way out of the test chambers were fantastic.

I particularly enjoyed the ending chapter, with running behind the scenes, inside the machinery of those test chambers and seeing the Powerpoint presentations. I had this constant feeling that some team of paramilitary clean-up was coming to get me, and I can almost swear I heard their footsteps.

Daydreamer
10-11-2007, 12:57 PM
The best part of the last areas is how its introduced slowly, and ties into the map as a whole. First in 17, you see a cubby behind a moving wall. Then in 18, you can enter a small back room with a locked door out. And finally in 19 you actually go through the behind the scenes areas, and end up passing by the viewing rooms for a few of the early tests. The story isn't just subtly told, but also subtly paced.

Question: If killed by a neuro-toxin, where are all the bodies?

Savathun
10-11-2007, 01:09 PM
Answer: Taken. Taken by the Headless Horseman.

Taken back to hell.

Paul le Fou
10-11-2007, 01:57 PM
Now that I've got my vanilla crazy cake from the advanced levels and have been smacked around thoroughly by the trial levels, I'm looking at the rest of my achievements.

First, for destroying cameras - does anyone know a way to destroy a camera besides putting a portal behind it? I've landed on one from a powerful fling and it did nothing, and I've hit it with a weighted cube - likewise ineffective. I don't think there are enough on portal walls to get the achievement just by zapping them, though.

Second, for the Jump 300 feet - if anyone's gotten this, how did you go about it? Is it a horizontal fling? Right now I'm thinking jumping off the Catwalks in the Tall Room and flinging straight back up from another floor portal, but I'm not sure what they're looking for in that one.

Adrenaline
10-11-2007, 03:14 PM
First, for destroying cameras - does anyone know a way to destroy a camera besides putting a portal behind it?

Try hitting them with ricocheted energy balls?

Second, for the Jump 300 feet - if anyone's gotten this, how did you go about it? Is it a horizontal fling?

Yeah, I did it in the giant room where you get attacked by a ton of turrets right before the end. I was just trying to get myself up with a lot of jumps and I got it from flinging myself a lot. I can't explain exactly how because I didn't plan it.

Daydreamer
10-11-2007, 03:29 PM
Yeah, I did it in the giant room where you get attacked by a ton of turrets right before the end. I was just trying to get myself up with a lot of jumps and I got it from flinging myself a lot. I can't explain exactly how because I didn't plan it.

Best single room in the entire game, bar none. What makes it better? When I figured out where to go, I had 2-3 turrets left alive, and I did the big jump/launches with bullets whizzing by. Now if only there was a way to combine portals and conc grenade jumping...

poetfox
10-11-2007, 04:38 PM
So my boyfriend pointed me to this program where I can pull the sound files out of Steam games, and I'm pulling my favorite clips of the AI out and being very happy. I don't even know what I can use them for, but whatever it is, it'll be awesome.

Paul le Fou
10-11-2007, 05:25 PM
So my boyfriend pointed me to this program where I can pull the sound files out of Steam games, and I'm pulling my favorite clips of the AI out and being very happy. I don't even know what I can use them for, but whatever it is, it'll be awesome.

That is awesome.

Also, the Tall Room (with the turret ambush) sort of pissed me off because there were still so many higher catwalks, and I so wanted to go higher. D:

poetfox
10-11-2007, 06:07 PM
I guess I really should have linked to it instead of just talking about it... so... link (http://nemesis.thewavelength.net/index.php?p=26).

Jeanie
10-11-2007, 06:17 PM
Now that I've got my vanilla crazy cake from the advanced levels and have been smacked around thoroughly by the trial levels, I'm looking at the rest of my achievements.

First, for destroying cameras - does anyone know a way to destroy a camera besides putting a portal behind it? I've landed on one from a powerful fling and it did nothing, and I've hit it with a weighted cube - likewise ineffective. I don't think there are enough on portal walls to get the achievement just by zapping them, though.

Congrats on the Cake, any hints for getting past the 4 sentries in the last advance course?

As for the cameras, I have the achievement. There are few on the level when you get the gun. Those count and you have to back track a bit for them. The ones you can't put a portal behind DO NOT count.

Paul le Fou
10-11-2007, 07:20 PM
Congrats on the Cake, any hints for getting past the 4 sentries in the last advance course?

As for the cameras, I have the achievement. There are few on the level when you get the gun. Those count and you have to back track a bit for them. The ones you can't put a portal behind DO NOT count.

Good to know. In return: what I did was Get onto their platforms from behind, knock/drop them off, and go. Details: The first one is the hardest - I did the lowest one, off the right of the entranceway, first, but had to be damn fast about it as I was taking fire. I portaled on from the side, made sure to push it with my jump, and went right off towards the next wall to portal back to safety. Once that was done I went after the highest, leftmost one (a portal near the ceiling behind it can get you there with a good jump). From that platform I could jump straight to the next closest one (now to my right). After that, portal again over to the last one and knock him off. There's some really tricky jumping going on, but nothing too complicated portal-wise in this strat. My friend passed that level by using himself as a projectile and knocking them off somehow, so there are multiple ways to go about it, but that's what ended up working for me.

Jeanie
10-11-2007, 10:05 PM
Awesome thanks Paul, I was able to beat it. Here's how: First was the lowest one, I knocked that one out by using the camera in the room to knock it over when I threw it through a portal. Next up was the highest one, created a portal as high as I could and jump through to land on platform. Now here is where I used your friend's projectile idea. Since I could not jump right to platform, I created a portal right above the piston hole and connected it to small platform below the switch and box. Jumped in and flung myself at the sentry. Very satisifying. Repeated that with the last one, about one square higher than the platform. Then I got back on the highest platform, placed two portals on the little ledge and used the height to fling myself up to the ledge with the box.

Mmmm... Vanilla Crazy Cake...

Daydreamer
10-11-2007, 11:24 PM
Need help on the third advanced course: How to get get enough horizontal momentum to cross the wall where the first vertical-fall-to-horizontal-launch puzzle was?

Adrenaline
10-11-2007, 11:37 PM
Need help on the third advanced course: How to get get enough horizontal momentum to cross the wall where the first vertical-fall-to-horizontal-launch puzzle was?

The one where they only give you a patch of floor and ceiling, and then an angled surface in the other corner?

Merus
10-12-2007, 12:35 AM
Oh no, it's further on than that.

I got past that one by shooting one portal at the roof of the side room, then the other portal at the floor in front of the barrier. Jump in the floor portal, then quickly shoot the floor with the colour of the roof portal. You'll get shot up back at the barrier, and you should have enough time to push forward over the barrier. It might also help if you use running momentum when you fall into the floor portal, you've got enough room in the side room.

ringworm
10-12-2007, 12:51 AM
I'm a bit late (been having computer problems this last week), but I just finished the standard stuffen and I'm grinning like an idiot. I need that closing song bad. The game took me just over an hour and a half to finish and I feel like it was a complete game, even without the advanced stuff.

Daydreamer
10-12-2007, 01:18 AM
The one where they only give you a patch of floor and ceiling, and then an angled surface in the other corner?

Nope, earlirer - you get a small patch of floor next to the wall, and a small patch in a pit in an alcove off to the elft side - the rest is all metal. In the original it was the first room where you had to go vertical-drop-to-horizontal-launch-from-wall

Adrenaline
10-12-2007, 01:34 AM
Do what Merus said

poetfox
10-14-2007, 02:30 PM
I just want to make sure anyone who's vaguely interested by the story behind Portal knows about ApertureScience.com (http://www.aperturescience.com) since it's entertaining and has additional story tidbits that has lead me and the boyfriend to believe the main character is the daughter of an employee at Aperture... (I don't know if that's spoiler-y, but eh, figured I might as well.) Anyway, if you can't figure out how to get into the delicious innards, there's a name and password in the game you need to use... yesyes... but for those too lazy to go back and look... username: cjohnson password: tier3

Mr. Sensible
10-14-2007, 02:43 PM
I noticed that once you log in you can enter "play portal" at the prompt, which links to some YouTube video that has since been removed. I assume it was a teaser trailer, but can anyone confirm what the video was?

Paul le Fou
10-14-2007, 03:26 PM
I'm no good at this stuff. I can't figure out what comes after logging in. Boo! D:

poetfox
10-14-2007, 03:38 PM
Try "dir".

And yeah, I didn't try that... I have no idea what that video would have been... hm.

SamuelMarston
10-15-2007, 08:22 PM
I miss Weighted Companion Cube. Really.

Sarcasmorator
10-16-2007, 12:17 AM
This game is absolutely brilliant.

More!

Stiv
10-17-2007, 02:23 AM
If this game's writing is what I had to give up Old Man Murray for almost six years ago, I think that it's worth it. It tickles me pink that Chet and Erik worked on a game that is essentially an intricate series of crate puzzles, as well.

Speaking of which, who else timed the game's Start To Crate?

Merus
10-17-2007, 04:04 AM
I don't think Start-to-Crate is accurate for Valve, as they're aware of the system and deliberately put crates at the start of their games.

bobservo
10-17-2007, 09:24 PM
I'm proud of myself because I bea thte entire game without any help. When it comes to spatial reasoning, I'm usually a little more than half-retarded.

What I didn't understand was why the ending is supposed to be so significant. After about a week of hearing people beam about the ending, I saw it as pretty good, but nothing to go crazy over. Am I missing something?

Adrenaline
10-17-2007, 09:26 PM
The song!?!?!

Savathun
10-17-2007, 10:27 PM
Has this (http://mcgibs.deviantart.com/art/Portal-67117417) been posted yet?

bobservo
10-17-2007, 10:35 PM
The song!?!?!

Yeah, the song is great. But is that brief outside scene supposed to be a connection to HL2 Episode 2?

Pawelmaji
10-17-2007, 11:50 PM
Jumping on the companion cube related avatar bandwagon.

This game is short but sweet. I didn't have high expectations, so it was all a pleasant surprise. Can't wait to see what the mod community does with this "portal technology"

Paul le Fou
10-18-2007, 02:13 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKg3TUPQ8Sg

The final use is the best. There's a link with the video that goes to an explanation page and you can do it yourself!

So, yeah, I think it's only a matter of time.

SamuelMarston
10-18-2007, 03:12 PM
I just finished this wonderful game. Now I'm working on the Terminal Velocity achievement.

I think an infinite fall loop would make a novel screen saver.

SamuelMarston
10-18-2007, 08:25 PM
If true, this is worth the double post:

From (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=173586&site=pcg),

Due to the popularity of the game, Valve's Director of Business Development Jason Holtman has confirmed that a Weighted Companion Cube desktop toy will be released by the end of 2007.

Jeanie
10-18-2007, 09:15 PM
Joy!
.........

sfried
10-19-2007, 01:09 PM
If this isn't Game of the Year, I don't know what else should be.

Paul le Fou
10-19-2007, 01:10 PM
If this isn't Game of the Year, I don't know what else should be.

Halo 3! lololol.

ringworm
10-19-2007, 01:12 PM
If this isn't Game of the Year, I don't know what else should be.
Man I loved Portal so much, but...Persona!

Also I really think Mario Galaxy has a great shot at it.

sfried
10-19-2007, 01:15 PM
Halo 3! lololol.

Halo 3 has nothing on Portal. Nothing.

Go back to your sterile rampant AI universe while I enjoy my cake...which is a lie.

Also I really think Mario Galaxy has a great shot at it.
Agreed. Although I would've reserved it for Super Smash Brother Brawl. But seeing some of the new footage makes my mouth water alot. And the music...

Rosencrantz
10-19-2007, 01:51 PM
Have we all forgotten about BioShock already?

That said, I really, really am looking forward to Mario Galaxy.

Paul le Fou
10-19-2007, 04:38 PM
Halo 3 has nothing on Portal. Nothing.

Go back to your sterile rampant AI universe while I enjoy my cake...which is a lie.

Perhaps you have failed to notice my icon/description, and my liberal use of Talking like an Idiot which indicates Sarcasm on the Internets.

Portal is definitely game of the year in that it's the most interesting, unique, fun game released this year (so far), but I don't expect it to win awards over Halo 3. The marketing blitz will (has already) take(n) care of most of the award outlets, I imagine. Bioshock will probably get a few unjustified blowjobs too. But we all know that these awards are like cake. They are a lie.

Adrenaline
10-19-2007, 09:28 PM
I probably wouldn't pick Portal for GAME OF THE YEAR. Probably for innovation, sure.

reibeatall
10-19-2007, 10:32 PM
I probably wouldn't pick Portal for GAME OF THE YEAR. Probably for innovation, sure.

Why not? I'd like some sound reasons why it couldn't be game of the year.

But I'd also like sound arguments on why it COULD be game of the year from whoever's willing to try.

Parish
10-19-2007, 11:39 PM
Man, the nerds are really slacking. It's been more than a week and still no Companion Cube slashfic on fanfiction.net. If the Internet won't sully a perfect, beautiful relationship, who will?

Mightyblue
10-20-2007, 01:33 AM
Careful man, you're gonna bring out the CloudxSephiroth crowds with that kinda talk, and we don't want that happening again. *shudders*

SamuelMarston
10-20-2007, 01:42 AM
I think we can all agree that this has been an amazing year for Videogames.

I know I'm forgetting things, but just off the top of my head (and this thread):

BioShock
Halo 3
Portal
Persona 3
Super Metroid (rerelease)
Portal
& Portal

I haven't played Mario Galaxy yet, but I cannot wait for it.

shivam
10-20-2007, 10:44 AM
so should i buy orange box all complete, or is portal worth the 20 bucks by itself?

reibeatall
10-20-2007, 10:50 AM
so should i buy orange box all complete, or is portal worth the 20 bucks by itself?

Personally, I'd say it's worth 20 bucks. But if you're marginally interested in the Half-Lifes and/or Team Fortress, just get Orange Box.

Adrenaline
10-20-2007, 11:14 AM
Why not? I'd like some sound reasons why it couldn't be game of the year.

Well, the year's not over, but it's not like Portal's innovation makes it more enjoyable that the best other games, and I have a hard time saying a three-hour experience is deserving of that title, as dumb as you may think that is. It would have to be a really down year for games, and this is a great year.

shivam
10-20-2007, 11:20 AM
GFW radio had an interesting discussion on whether a 3 hour experience can be gotw. I, for one, think that the enjoyment you get out of a game, the innovation that is present, and the sheer fun overall is a far better judgement of whether a game is goty material than just artificially extending the length. too many people mistake value for good gaming. sometimes a game, or a book, or movie, is just *long enough* to do what it needs to do and go home.

reibeatall
10-20-2007, 11:31 AM
I was actually about to say what shivam said. I'd take three hours of amazing over 20 hours of really fun or 30 hours of kinda fun. I really think that the length of the game added to it's greatness. As much as I loved Bioshock, there were parts of it that I just didn't like (LOL FETCH QUEST 4 TREEZ.) There wasn't ONE part in Portal that I didn't enjoy, the advanced levels notwithstanding, and even those, I'm just angry at myself.

With all the stuff that's coming out this year, I really don't think any of them will pose a threat to Portal.

CoD4 = CoD2 with modern stuff
Mass Effect = KotoR + lots of story
Assassins Creed = Prince of Persia
Mario Galaxy = Mario

I'm not saying that those are going to be BAD games, but they're just the same crap we've been playing for years.

Paul le Fou
10-20-2007, 12:05 PM
Also, Portal is, I feel, the most cohesive of the bunch. The whole package on its own works on every level. The gameplay is interesting, via a new concept and mechanic, the levels and puzzles are well-designed, and the writing is hands-down the best in a game this year and probably for the past couple years and the next few. It sets the tone right from the outset, it controls the pacing as GLaDOS's mood seems to deteriorate, escalating the stakes, it reveals the story (what there is, anyway) in small pieces as you move along without so much as a camera break or cutscene (which Half-life has been doing for years, to be fair, but which is still probably the best storytelling device that video gaming has come up with), and on top of all that, it's massively entertaining.

Also, does a game count as "short" if you play it over and over again? I've logged more hours on Portal than I have on some 40+ hour JRPGs that I start, can't stand, and don't bother playing any more of. So if you want to argue the length, I'd argue that by virtue of its short length and fun factor, it's playability extends well beyond a "long" game that isn't any good - or hell, a game of decent length. I'll probably end up with more Portal hours than any of the MGS games, because I tend to play those just once. That doesn't mean much for either game, and if you want to judge on length, you have to mention multiplayer games which trump any of the others.

And as much as I try to avoid trumpeting something simply because it's unique (and downplaying something because it's not), when you come down to it, Portal is ultimately like no other game this year, and for the most part, like no other game ever. The extent of creativity and imagination to create it outreaches, say, the extent to which it took to make Another Halo or Another Call of Duty (those were less about creativity and more about craft, which is no less valuable). Bioshock, even, for it's "new" aspects, was less a stretch of the creative mind than Portal. And while Bioshock may still be a really good game, Portal is a really good game we've never played before.

Schmidt
10-20-2007, 12:28 PM
CoD4 = CoD2 with modern stuff
Mass Effect = KotoR + lots of story
Assassins Creed = Prince of Persia
Mario Galaxy = Mario

I'm not saying that those are going to be BAD games, but they're just the same crap we've been playing for years.
You're high.

reibeatall
10-20-2007, 12:40 PM
How so? I'm going to enjoy those games (well, probably not Mass Effect), but I can realize that they're just reiterations of stuff I've already played.

Parish
10-20-2007, 12:47 PM
Mario Galaxy is just the same old Mario? By that logic, Portal is "just" Half-Life 2 with Bugs Bunny's Acme rabbit holes.

reibeatall
10-20-2007, 01:18 PM
Do they really take gaming to the next level, or is it just a fun Mario? Since I haven't actually played it, all those assumptions were purely pulled out of my ass.


Also, back on the subject of Portal.
I don't know how I missed it the first time, but I found the room that's devoted to pictures of the Aperture Laboratories Weighted Companion Cube.

Schmidt
10-20-2007, 01:23 PM
Portal doesn't "take gaming to the next level" or anything retardedly cliche like that either. It's simply an ridiculously fantastic game.

Parish
10-20-2007, 01:25 PM
Galaxy and Portal are very analogous as they both force you to rethink your assumptions about the way 3D space works in games. Also, I'd say neither one is revolutionary or takes the medium to a plateau of The Future -- they're both simply very clever and very fun.

reibeatall
10-20-2007, 01:30 PM
Ohh my god, did I just say "take gaming to the next level"?

I think it's time to rethink my life.

Paul le Fou
10-20-2007, 02:00 PM
Ohh my god, did I just say "take gaming to the next level"?

I think it's time to rethink my life.

I think your gaming needs more BLAST PROCESSING

Also, Acme rabbit holes... full-conversion Portal mod... interesting.

Adrenaline
10-20-2007, 03:52 PM
I'd agree that three hours of amazing is better than more very good if I actually thought Portal's gameplay was really better than the other great games this year.

Jeanie
10-20-2007, 04:23 PM
I'd agree that three hours of amazing is better than more very good if I actually thought Portal's gameplay was really better than the other great games this year.

Portal's gameplay is pretty decent. It's the story, atmosphere, and humor that pushes it to GOTY for me.

That and I didn't play Bioshock or Persona 3.

Adrenaline
10-20-2007, 07:48 PM
Yeah, I like good gameplay in my game of the year. The bonuses of presentation don't make up for the negatives of lacking value, IMO.

Merus
10-20-2007, 09:20 PM
And as much as I try to avoid trumpeting something simply because it's unique (and downplaying something because it's not), when you come down to it, Portal is ultimately like no other game this year, and for the most part, like no other game ever.

I sincerely hope you aren't in a position where you actually decide game of the year, because this is basically a lie. Like cake, except the cake actually existed and you just weren't getting any. Portal's exactly the sort of refinement that you're complaining about from other games, except in this case everyone pretends it's new because they don't pay attention to any game developers who don't have a PR department.

And those people would give it to Halo 3 anyways.

I'd probably not give it game of the year just because, and I know I'm in the minority here, I felt that it was starting to drag just a little bit towards the end. After the portal mechanic wears out, there's a couple of rooms where they basically go 'now what?' and then they decide that it's finale time. So it's short, yes, but it couldn't really be any longer unless they threw in some more elements - personally I think there was plenty they could have done with the rocket launchers, and I'm sad they didn't.

The above is nitpicking. Please be aware.

Galaxy does look like it's going to be a new spin on the Mario formula, as well. I think of the multi-million dollar titles, Halo 3 is probably the least deserving of the bunch, which is really kind of an interesting situation to be in because it's certainly not a bad game.

Mightyblue
10-20-2007, 09:26 PM
To sum up: Should GotYs be entertaining, or should they be the ones that push the industry forwards?

The two aren't necessarily separate, but you should keep in mind what you'd give a GotY award FOR before we start tossing the laurels around.

Besides which, Portal's not all that innovative anyway, since there's this game called Prey. Now, Prey wouldn't let you make your own portals like, er, Portal, but it still toyed with notions of gravity, wormholes and player orientation in a mostly good way.

Adrenaline
10-20-2007, 09:50 PM
Ratchet games started it years ago with the gravity boots

Paul le Fou
10-20-2007, 10:51 PM
I sincerely hope you aren't in a position where you actually decide game of the year, because this is basically a lie. Like cake, except the cake actually existed and you just weren't getting any. Portal's exactly the sort of refinement that you're complaining about from other games, except in this case everyone pretends it's new because they don't pay attention to any game developers who don't have a PR department.


We've been over this. Narbacular Drop was a student project, a technical exercise that saw limited online release at best, and which then itself led directly to Portal. I don't count it as a game any more than I count the scribblings in an author's notepad a prequel to their novel. Now that it's seen final release as a realized product, it's eligible to be considered part of the industry as a whole. If you think the relationship between Narbacular Drop and Portal is analagous to the relationship between Halos 1 and 2 and Halo 3, you're positively nuts.

Schmidt
10-21-2007, 12:02 AM
I didn't think he meant the refinement statement specifically as it applied to Naboo Drop. I assume he meant in the general sense. Portal is a lot of pieces that aren't revolutionary by themselves, or even necessarily when combined, but the amount of polish and thought that went into the final product is amazing, and that's what makes for a near perfect result.

If it changes the way games are made, it's not going to be in any crazy way implied the way we throw around hyperboles about revolutionizing the industry and taking it to the next level. It will be in the improvement of the process of development for the games we already make. If you listen to those commentary tracks and realize the incredible amount of testing, and experimentation, and trial and error, and retesting that went into the development, you'll see that's most likely what made the game come together so well.

Merus
10-21-2007, 02:00 AM
What I'm saying is that it's Narbacular Drop with polish - and that it's ironic that people are calling out other games for basically being the same old thing but with polish while praising Portal. It's just that Portal isn't taking games that have themselves been polished to a sheen and giving them a repolish, and that's where people are getting caught.

Lemme tell you, most truly innovative games aren't as much fun as people would have you believe. They've got a lot of rough edges and a crazy idea that with some work would really shine. It usually takes a couple of iterations to get to that point.

shivam
10-21-2007, 02:07 AM
katamari and loco roco did really well with innovative ideas right out of the box.

mario invented the side scroller right out of hte box and still holds up today.

certainly, there are situations for which the reverse is true--compare new iterations of DDR vs the old ones, for instance, but it goes both ways.

Schmidt
10-21-2007, 02:08 AM
Oh, so there was a more direct comparison to Nanoo Nanoo Drop. My bad. Either way, we're basically on the same page.

Eusis
10-21-2007, 02:49 AM
mario invented the side scroller right out of hte box and still holds up today.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/Eusis/pitfall.jpg

The KD example however holds true as far as I can tell, and I can't really comment on DDR.

Merus
10-21-2007, 03:39 AM
True, Katamari does. Loco Roco... hmm, I don't think it has anything to do with Gish, but I can't be sure. I doubt it does.

Otherwise, point taken.

SamuelMarston
10-21-2007, 12:24 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/Eusis/pitfall.jpg

The KD example however holds true as far as I can tell, and I can't really comment on DDR.

Pitfall didn't scroll. That was the big thing about Super Mario Bros.

I think the thing that I loved most about Portal was that I felt honestly engaged. I love spatial reasoning and problem solving, so the game was basically tailor made for my pleasure.

Given that, I tore through the advanced maps in about an hour (meaning, I love me some Portal).

I would probably pick it as my game of the year, but I've played some great games this year. I played Resident Evil 4 for the first time on Wii, and I loved the heck out of that. The same goes for Super Paper Mario and Bioshock. I'm so so spoiled.

Calorie Mate
10-22-2007, 12:39 PM
Sorry I'm a tad late to the Portal love-fest, but I brought cake! (Ok, I didn't. That was a lie.) (...what? Everyone else got to say it!) A friend brought his 360 over, and I just sat there until it was done. I also did all the Advanced Maps, save the very first one (not that I didn't figure it out, but the platforming was a retarded idea, so I decided my time was better spent elsewhere).

Honestly, with the sole exception of Persona 3, I can't think of anything else I've enjoyed more this year. If you had told me in January that a 5ish hour game could be a GOTY contender, I probably would have had some concerns...but Portal has completely sold me on the idea. If my computer could run it, I'd gladly pay $20 for it (and as it stands, I'd probably buy Orange Box on a console if they announced new downloadable Portal Maps).

JCDenton
10-23-2007, 08:46 PM
Isn't GotY just a somewhat arbitrary distinction based on one's opinions? Why can't a three hour title be someone's favorite game of 2007? At this point it is mine, though I haven't really played Bioshock, Persona 3 or Galaxy.

Schmidt
10-23-2007, 08:50 PM
Bioshock: Great, not greatest. An awesome game that is slightly less awesome than people will actually admit.

Sarcasmorator
10-23-2007, 09:08 PM
I'll admit it. BioShock is 2/3 awesome.

Adrenaline
10-23-2007, 11:07 PM
Isn't GotY just a somewhat arbitrary distinction based on one's opinions? Why can't a three hour title be someone's favorite game of 2007? At this point it is mine, though I haven't really played Bioshock, Persona 3 or Galaxy.

Sure, which is why I'm saying I wouldn't call it my personal game of the year.

Stiv
10-23-2007, 11:20 PM
Maybe puzzle game of the year is more appropriate. Not because it's particularly challenging or addictive, but it's extremely novel and way too much fun.

Although the advanced chambers are frighteningly difficult. I think I'm doing #15 right now (the one with all the fields) and it has got me pretty damn close to stumped at the point where I am.

Parish
10-23-2007, 11:33 PM
Good-bye, Orange Box! I shall miss your weighted-companion-cubic goodness.