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sraymonds
06-13-2007, 05:12 PM
Anyone get themselves a chance to read WWH yet? I enjoyed it, but any comic that has the Pro-Registration guys getting pummeled I enjoy. It did seem awfully short though.

RAC
06-13-2007, 06:01 PM
Stupid decompressed storytelling. Stuff that used to happen in the space of five pages takes twenty now. Nova's a good example of this too: that was a sixty-page three-issue story that should've been a one-shot establishing story.

Other than that, though, I liked it. A savage beating for Iron Man is about all it takes to win my heart these days, as you pretty much said. Still, I do find it kind of depressing that I'm rooting for the Hulk over, you know, Earth.

sraymonds
06-13-2007, 06:08 PM
New Avengers is guilty of the compressed storytelling. I feel Bendis likes hearing these characters speak his words, plot advancement be damned.

When did comics become like the damned Dragon Ball Z?

mr_bungle700
06-13-2007, 07:18 PM
Is the Hulk still on Namek?

So superhero comics now have the pacing of DBZ and the dialogue of The West Wing/Gilmore Girls/whatever other "people speak unrealistically clever" show you can think of? That's...not good.

Red Hedgehog
06-13-2007, 09:09 PM
So superhero comics now have the pacing of DBZ and the dialogue of The West Wing/Gilmore Girls/whatever other "people speak unrealistically clever" show you can think of? That's...not good.

Hmm... without the pacing problems, it sounds like superhero comics may have good dialogue now. Intriguing.

Excitemike
06-13-2007, 10:22 PM
Unrealistically clever beats the pants off of moonlight rooftop soliloquy. New Avengers is the only superhero book I get excited about. It's also the only superhero book being led by Luke Cage. I don't know why it took forty years to get Spider-Man on the Avengers, but damn does it make a difference.

Lumber Baron
06-13-2007, 10:44 PM
Not to thread-jack (HA!) but I've got to ask something about his Pro-Registration/Anti-Registration thing. I realize I don't read comics, and may not be picking up on the nuances, but in for-real real life, wouldn't 96% of people be for registration?

Because, I mean, vigilante justice?

Kishi
06-13-2007, 10:56 PM
Well, yes, actually. When most of the individuals involved are paragons of justice like Spider-Man and Captain America, vigilantism is actually a perfectly sensible solution to crime. Introducing a bureaucracy to it only stands to cripple its effectiveness.

Excitemike
06-13-2007, 11:03 PM
Also: Most public servants don't have arch-enemies who want to kill them and their families. You can't apply real-world logic to superheros, the whole thing starts to unravel.

Torgo
06-13-2007, 11:19 PM
Still, I do find it kind of depressing that I'm rooting for the Hulk over, you know, Earth.
So the Hulk's Angst versus the world thing isn't limited to that awful movie? That makes me dislike him even more.

(I do not read comics at all, so not that it really matters.)

I would ask why he's beating up Iron Man (at least that's what I gleaned from your posts) since I thought they were both supposed to be good guys, but that would be taking the first step on a slippery slope of excessively convoluted geekdom that I fear to tread.

alexb
06-13-2007, 11:31 PM
Is Captain America still dead?

mr_bungle700
06-13-2007, 11:38 PM
For now. Give it a few years (months?) though.

Excitemike
06-13-2007, 11:43 PM
Is Captain America still dead?

Captain America will stay dead.

Until they need him to promote his movie in 2009.

I would ask why he's beating up Iron Man (at least that's what I gleaned from your posts) since I thought they were both supposed to be good guys, but that would be taking the first step on a slippery slope of excessively convoluted geekdom that I fear to tread.

Turn back. Turn back now!

Jeanie
06-13-2007, 11:47 PM
I would ask why he's beating up Iron Man (at least that's what I gleaned from your posts) since I thought they were both supposed to be good guys, but that would be taking the first step on a slippery slope of excessively convoluted geekdom that I fear to tread.

Ok short version is that Tony, Reed Richards, Namor, Black Bolt of the Inhumans, and Doc Strange, tricked the Hulk and shot him into space never to return.

Long Verson: He crashed on an alien planet, became a gladiator, killed an evil dictator, took his place as king, got married and knocked up his wife. Then the ship he came on that crashed blew up destroying the planet and killing his wife and unborn child. Now he's back.

So yeah Hulk's in a whole new level of pissed off and the madder Hulk gets...

Vahn16
06-14-2007, 01:34 AM
Ok short version is that Tony, Reed Richards, Namor, Black Bolt of the Inhumans, and Doc Strange, tricked the Hulk and shot him into space never to return.

So Reed Richards is an ass like his Venture Bros. counterpart? Or was this a benevolent forced launch into outer space? Sorry, I don't know many details about comics.

sraymonds
06-14-2007, 07:00 AM
So Reed Richards is an ass like his Venture Bros. counterpart? Or was this a benevolent forced launch into outer space? Sorry, I don't know many details about comics.

Oh god, if you think Reed is being a douche in the core Marvel Universe, you should see him in the Marvel Zombies Universe. He infected the rest of the FF with the zombie virus because he believed the zombies to be the next evolution of mankind. He did not infect himself though, because he wanted to know what it felt like to be eaten. Major douche bag.

Excitemike
06-14-2007, 07:51 AM
He's always been a bit of douche. Locking himself in his lab for days at a time while his hot wife has to wait alone, dreaming that Namor will wisk her away. But that's why I love the FF. They're all such flawed characters.

Zef
06-14-2007, 09:38 AM
Ok short version is that Tony, Reed Richards, Namor, Black Bolt of the Inhumans, and Doc Strange, tricked the Hulk and shot him into space never to return.

In the not-too-distant future-
Next Sunday, A.D.-
There was a guy named Hulk,
Very different from you and me.
He liked staying out of the way,
Just smashing baddies made his day;
He did his job well with a pissed-off face,
But his editors didn't like him
So they shot him into space!

Jeanie
06-14-2007, 09:48 AM
In the not-too-distant future-
Next Sunday, A.D.-
There was a guy named Hulk,
Very different from you and me.
He liked staying out of the way,
Just smashing baddies made his day;
He did his job well with a pissed-off face,
But his editors didn't like him
So they shot him into space!


Bravo. You win the thread, my good sir.

sraymonds
06-14-2007, 01:31 PM
He's always been a bit of douche. Locking himself in his lab for days at a time while his hot wife has to wait alone, dreaming that Namor will wisk her away. But that's why I love the FF. They're all such flawed characters.

That's a different kind of douche though; people aren't going to be horribly killed if he ignores his wife.

Speaking of, have you read the latest New Avengers? What did you think of the surprise ending that will break the internet into two-thirds?

Excitemike
06-14-2007, 01:49 PM
I have to say I was genuinely shocked. I never saw it coming, and it makes complete sense within the analogy of Civil War and our IRL war. The real threat sneaking in while the heroes were preoccupied with their flag waving and moral outrage. They tried something similar with the Atlanteans in the Frontline miniseries, but it didn't really go anywhere.

Has it broken the internet even a little? It's been a while since I've checked those kind of comics blogs.

sraymonds
06-14-2007, 02:32 PM
Newsarama Interview with Bendis: (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=116568)
"You will see how this thread connects both Mighty Avengers and New Avengers. You will see teammates switching teams, abandoning teams, the trust issue bringing characters to the very edge of what they can handle."

WHAT? OH COME ON.

Excitemike
06-14-2007, 02:50 PM
I can find no fault in an interview with Bendis where he cites Buckaroo Banzai as an influence for a story. I think as long as Luke Cage, Spider-Man and Dr. Strange are not Skrulls I will be satisfied going wherever this story leads. Skrull invasions are 100% approved.

openedsource
06-14-2007, 02:53 PM
I can find no fault in an interview with Bendis where he cites Buckaroo Banzai as an influence for a story. I think as long as Luke Cage, Spider-Man and Dr. Strange are not Skrulls I will be satisfied going wherever this story leads. Skrull invasions are 100% approved.

Peter Parker is really Ben Reilly. Who is really a clone. Who is really a SKRULL! Who may or may not be Mysterio faking the whole thing.

Zef
06-14-2007, 02:59 PM
Wait, what? Last time I even heard of the Skrulls was a 60's or 70's Fantastic Four Hanna Barbera cartoon where a "Super Skrull" got hypnotized into thinking it was a cow. What's this about one of them impersonating a mainstream character?

sraymonds
06-14-2007, 03:24 PM
The Super Skrull was never a cow; a few of the regular skrulls got turned into cows. They then were turned into hamburger patties, which were then consumed by some townspeople.Said townspeople then began manifesting powers. Someone came in to clean up Mr. Fantasticís mistake. At least I think thatís how I remember it happening.

The characters I think are least likely to be Skrulls would Spider-Man, Ronin, and Iron Fist. Spider-Man and Iron Fist both have their own books, so that would screw things up. As for Ronin, well, hasnít he been through enough?

HmmmÖmaybe Peter Parker can pretend that the Spidey that unmasked was actually a Skrull.

Excitemike
06-14-2007, 03:57 PM
I immediately thought of Skrull Kill Crew when I saw the baby drinking the milk at the end. The Skrulls have weaponized our children.

juanfrugalj
06-16-2007, 08:32 PM
Newsarama Interview with Bendis: (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=116568)
"You will see how this thread connects both Mighty Avengers and New Avengers. You will see teammates switching teams, abandoning teams, the trust issue bringing characters to the very edge of what they can handle."


I thoroughly enjoy Powers, but OH CHRIST, BENDIS YOU SUCK!


Anyway, the only thing that bothers me about WWH is Black Bolt being a baddie. Other than that, I'm fine with it.

Jeanie
06-16-2007, 10:09 PM
The Super Skrull was never a cow; a few of the regular skrulls got turned into cows. They then were turned into hamburger patties, which were then consumed by some townspeople.Said townspeople then began manifesting powers. Someone came in to clean up Mr. Fantasticís mistake. At least I think thatís how I remember it happening.

The characters I think are least likely to be Skrulls would Spider-Man, Ronin, and Iron Fist. Spider-Man and Iron Fist both have their own books, so that would screw things up. As for Ronin, well, hasnít he been through enough?

HmmmÖmaybe Peter Parker can pretend that the Spidey that unmasked was actually a Skrull.

I don't see Marvel going the whole "Spider-Man" was a Skrull thing. But I see lots of others being under investigation for being one.

And as for Ronin, well I'm just glad he's back is all.

mr_bungle700
06-16-2007, 11:43 PM
I thoroughly enjoy Powers, but OH CHRIST, BENDIS YOU SUCK!


Anyway, the only thing that bothers me about WWH is Black Bolt being a baddie. Other than that, I'm fine with it.

They...they made Black Bolt a bad guy? Doesn't that mean everyone else is thoroughly screwed now?

sraymonds
06-17-2007, 07:24 AM
I don't think you can call Black Bolt a bad guy per se. He just happens to be one of the Illuminati that shot Hulk into space.

Now for some good Black Bolt action, check out Silent War. So awesome. The story is very interesting, and the art is...unique.

Eddie
06-18-2007, 01:19 PM
Reed Richards is totally a Skrull. Damn him!

- Eddie

Excitemike
06-18-2007, 01:25 PM
Johnny Storm was married to a Skrull.

sraymonds
06-18-2007, 01:52 PM
I Was a Teenaged Super Skrull starring Michael J. Fox.

JohnB
06-18-2007, 06:01 PM
Peter Parker is really Ben Reilly. Who is really a clone. Who is really a SKRULL! Who may or may not be Mysterio faking the whole thing.


http://www.johnnylunchpail.com/robwebber/uploaded_images/spidey-745883.jpg

Schmidt
06-18-2007, 08:06 PM
Ronin is already two different people, they might as well have a third "openly-Skrull" version!

Actually, that would make for a funny twist. We've already had two arcs of "Guess who Ronin is!" so now we should have an arc where the first issue clearly tells the reader that a Skrull is now posing as Ronin, and have the arc be about the Avengers figuring it out. That'd be a nice inversion of the formula so far.

I wonder if Clint is going to stay as Ronin. Back when we were trying to guess who the first Ronin was, I heard a theory that Ronin would be a sort of rotating position for whoever the Avengers needed to work with at the time, giving the person the benefit of being an Avenger without publically being an Avenger. I like that idea in theory, but I don't think the writers could handle the responsibility; I think they'd fall into the trap of trying to make the identity a guessing game with a big reveal every time, and we're about sick of that. They'd have to be open with the reader about the identity-du-jour to make it tolerable.

sraymonds
06-18-2007, 08:26 PM
For what it's worth, there was a storyline in the X-Books once where Wolverine had been replaced with a Skrull, even though he had his own title as well. Apparently (I wasn't following any of them at the time, so this is secondhand) the disguised Skrull replaced Wolverine in his own book as well, and they removed all first-person narration until the real Wolverine returned.

The thing with that is the X-Men books are team books, and don't focus solely on a single character. I don't think Wolverine had his own solo title back when this was happening, did he?

Schmidt
06-18-2007, 08:35 PM
Nich seems to be saying pretty clearly that he did.

sraymonds
06-18-2007, 08:57 PM
Well, what do you know, he did. Reading is FUN-damental.

Jeanie
06-18-2007, 09:38 PM
The thing with that is the X-Men books are team books, and don't focus solely on a single character. I don't think Wolverine had his own solo title back when this was happening, did he?

When he was replaced was only a couple of years ago, he's had his own series for almost 20 yrs now.

My guess, Jessica Jones is the Skrull, not Luke Cage. Clint, however, is real. He was brought back two years ago after the House of M.

Schmidt
06-18-2007, 09:50 PM
I still can't come up with a logical explanation for the baby being a Skrull. Even if Jessica is a Skrull, and has been the whole time (or at least long enough to give birth to a Skrull human hybrid, which raises more, terrifying, biological questions), how in the world do you get hybrid baby in on the plot in utero?

Excitemike
06-18-2007, 11:13 PM
I still can't come up with a logical explanation for the baby being a Skrull. Even if Jessica is a Skrull, and has been the whole time (or at least long enough to give birth to a Skrull human hybrid, which raises more, terrifying, biological questions), how in the world do you get hybrid baby in on the plot in utero?

It's not Jessica or Luke, it's the milk. See Skrull Kill Crew. Switching from breast feeding to formula is too powerful a metaphor to ignore.

Also: I wanted to say "right on" about your Ronin comments. I agree completely.

The idea that Sue Storm has been fucking a Skrull all this time is horrible. Her and Johnny should join a support group. The FF have more complicated sex lives than any other supergroup, hands down.

Schmidt
06-18-2007, 11:18 PM
Oh, you've got to be right about the milk, that seems so obvious once you pointed it out. All I know about Skrull Kill Crew is from this thread though.

Eddie
06-19-2007, 11:52 AM
I think it's a Bendis fake-out. The kids' parents are Jessica Jones and Luke Cage here! We already know it's bound to be a special child, because it was born quite pre-maturely.

Plus, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage are Bendis's hobby. Their offspring will be his LEGACY.

Or not.

- Eddie

sraymonds
06-19-2007, 11:57 AM
Maybe the baby is jaundiced.