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Coinspinner
06-02-2007, 11:48 PM
Yes, LttP. I just bought it. Odin Sphere too, but that's on hold because I've just remembered that I become far more attached to blank slate non-characters I build myself than to actual characters. Just killed Ragelope, healed up, and got smashed by another FOE. Any advice on how to build these guys? If I dump a lot of points into my Protectors Provoke and F/R Guard skills or will she eventually use them before the enemy attacks?

Protector
3~Defense
3~HP
1~Shields
1~Provoke
1~Flee
1~Cure

Landshark
1~HP
5~Sword
3~Axe
1~Mine (doh)

Dark Hunter
1~HP
4~Whip
2~Venom
1~Gag
1~Shackle
1~Cuff

Medic
5~Healer
3~Cure
1~Salve
1~Patch Up

Alchemist
5~TP
2~Fire magic
1~Fire
1~Sight

Meg
06-03-2007, 12:30 AM
My setup is a Landsknecht and Protector on the front row, and a Survivalist, Alchemist, and Medic on the second row; I've been experimenting with a Dark Hunter in the front row in place of the Survivalist, but mine seems to die too frequently, and he's too far behind level-wise to be useful now. Anyway, what I did for the first few FOEs was the Protector constantly using F. Guard and Provoke (they were low levels, but still worked) while the Survivialist using Quicken every now and then. I can't remember at what level I noticed it (maybe level 4), but my protector did usually gets F. Guard in before the FOE attack (without the Quicken).

I just hit the second stratum and my Protector's F. Guard is still at level 2, and I don't see a reason to upgrade it yet. In fact, I didn't even consider R. Guard until the first FOE here (which I still haven't killed). The second stratum's really beautiful, but all the FOEs are cutting off my exploration, and my medic is starting to feel like dead weight.

Vahn16
06-03-2007, 12:54 AM
I've heard good things about Troubadors and their buffing abilities. Is it worth it to level one right off the bat (I just started too) or should I wait until later in the game?

alexb
06-03-2007, 12:56 AM
How fast do they level? If you feel like you built your character incorrectly, can you recruit a fresh one and get them roughly up to speed in short fashion?

Coinspinner
06-03-2007, 02:02 AM
Not Suikoden fast, but my main guys are level 7-8 and have explored most of B2 while one of my four survivalists is level 5 and all I've used them for is collecting hides and shells, and chopping wood in B1. I wish I'd taught them all chop instead of just two. Hopefully I will one day find a mining or taking point.

Kishi
06-03-2007, 02:59 AM
The Japanese site has nice, big, clean samples of the job artwork.

http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/swordman01.html
http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/ranger01.html
http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/paladin01.html
http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/darkhunter01.html
http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/medic01.html
http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/bushido01.html
http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/alchemist01.html
http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/bard01.html
http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/cursemaker01.html

Combined with that F.O.E. video, this is by far the most enjoyment I'm going to get out of the game.

Sprite
06-03-2007, 05:12 PM
I'm on floor 20, and the only time I had to level hardcore was when I switched out my Survivalist for a Troubadour (Troubadours rock, by the way). I'm never really that scared of FOEs at this point unless I get ambushed by more than one.

As for character builds, your character should specialize in a few skills rather than be a jack-of-all-trades. Alchemists should only specialize in two elements, with points put into the second-tier and multi-enemy attacks rather than the first-tier attacks. Landsharks obviously should specialize in either swords or axes (except to get the very helpful 2-Hit). I think axes are more powerful. I don't know anything about Dark Hunters but I guess it depends on whether you want status ailments or bindings. Medics are probably the hardest to build, but definitely have at least Cure III and Salve II maxed out. Only bring Refresh up to level 8, after that point it can cure any ailment. For the Protector, I highly recommend putting at least five points into each of the anti-elemental skills. Five nullifies any attacks of that move's type, and higher drains them! My Rear Guard is at six, and always goes first. I never use Provoke.

As for Troubadours, they are awesome indeed once you get through the second stratum or so. A boosted Relaxing at Level 10 recharges my party's TP faster than they can use it! Between the Troubadour's Relaxing and the Protector's Anti-elements I was able to beat off a string of like seven FOEs. That was fun.

Supposedly Troubies suck at the beginning, though, so it's up to you if you want to hold off and then spend the hours to get him/her up to speed.

So yeah, this game still rocks hardcore. I love.

Coinspinner
06-03-2007, 08:45 PM
Thanks. FOEs on the second typically level one-shot any of my guys but the Protector. I leveled up enough that the Ragelopes didn't but at level 8 the other kind is still the same deal as before. I feel like I've missed something... would selling a lot of shells get me better armor or something? I sold enough for a shield and the axe.

Edit: Nevermind. Killed 'em and made it to the fourth level.

bobservo
06-04-2007, 07:42 AM
Do survivalists equipped with a bow do the same damage from the back row?

Sean
06-04-2007, 08:38 AM
I'm enjoying it. Great time-filler, and I love the strange sense of accomplishment. But, I'm only three floors down. How varied is the game as it goes along?

I keep leveling up my Medic's "Patch Up" ability, but I think I'm wasting skill points as there are limited returns. Any thoughts?

Mightyblue
06-04-2007, 09:53 AM
Do survivalists equipped with a bow do the same damage from the back row?Yes. God yes.

I keep leveling up my Medic's "Patch Up" ability, but I think I'm wasting skill points as there are limited returns. Any thoughts?Yep, pretty much. You can do skill resets once you hit level 11 or so (subtracts 10 levels and lets you redistribute yer points) if you do horribly screw up, but the reset is mostly for higher level screw ups when it's counterproductive to train up a new medic to level 40 or so.

Sprite
06-04-2007, 11:09 AM
How varied is the game as it goes along?

I keep leveling up my Medic's "Patch Up" ability, but I think I'm wasting skill points as there are limited returns. Any thoughts?

The battles get more exciting, and the maps become more and more convoluted the farther down you go. Figuring out how to write some of them down becomes a game unto itself. Graphically there's not a lot of variety, but about halfway through the battle music turns awesome.

Patch Up isn't very good at all. Healing Touch is a lot better, and only costs a few TP. I didn't get either, though, because the Medic has far too many options as it is. I'm going to have to retire at 70 to get the bonus points just so I can max out his TP Up.

Meg
06-04-2007, 11:12 AM
I keep leveling up my Medic's "Patch Up" ability, but I think I'm wasting skill points as there are limited returns. Any thoughts?

It says the heal rate goes up as you spend more points on it, but I stopped at level 3; I suppose the more you sink into it, perhaps the more passive healing it'll do. After a while I gave up and starting working toward revive, which required quite a few skill points (Cure III level 3 and Healer level 7). Still, patch up works well for me while grinding through weak enemies because I rarely have to use any cure spells.

So, anybody know if TP Regen is worth it? I'm looking at it and it says heal 1 TP per turn, which seems really small and pointless.

gamin
06-04-2007, 11:27 AM
So I've been thinking about getting this game, and I'm curious, how well does it play for short bursts--like picking it up for 10-20 minutes at a time throughout the day? I know setting up the party and everything is a bit involved, but when you're in a dungeon, is it easy to pick up where you left off in sleep mode?

Sean
06-04-2007, 11:42 AM
Thanks for the info everyone. This will help quite a bit and put paid to many of my doubts about how I was leveling. It's definitely nice to know Surv's do the same damage in the back with the bow; I hadn't even tried that. I was a sissy and did what the producer said to do in the 1up blog: Land, Pro, Surv, Med, Alch. Ah well, having loads of fun with it all anyway.

Sean
06-04-2007, 11:45 AM
By the way, I notice that there are six slots for your party. Is this just to allow for three in either row or is there an eventual sixth member?

nathan
06-04-2007, 11:51 AM
It says the heal rate goes up as you spend more points on it, but I stopped at level 3; I suppose the more you sink into it, perhaps the more passive healing it'll do. After a while I gave up and starting working toward revive, which required quite a few skill points (Cure III level 3 and Healer level 7). Still, patch up works well for me while grinding through weak enemies because I rarely have to use any cure spells.
Yeah, that Patch Up sure seems a bit silly. Even on level two I will be lucky if it restores more than 2 HP on any characters. It would be nice if you could get it to at least 15 points of recovery after every battle. Does anyone know about how many skill points that would take? Or if you can even get close to that.

But as far as building up a new character, I noticed that if you decrease your party to 2 that it will divide up the EXP points two ways instead of five when you have a full party. It's a quick way to build up a level one character and maybe build up a different character that is a level or two behind everyone else. You can usually get the new character to level 8 or 9 within an hour of grinding. I got about 20 hours into the game and then realized that I really need a Medic to get any further or have any chance against Foes. Everything seems to be balanced just right in this game and that makes it all the more fun instead of frustrating.

The only thing that I can't figure out is how to see what my characters have equipped when I am trying to buy new weapons in the goods store. At best I just look first and write it on a sheet of paper before going into the store. I find it very frustrating but there must be an easier way. Right?

Coinspinner
06-04-2007, 11:52 AM
I have absolutely no idea how to train my Dark Hunter. I'm hoping it's one of those classes that sucks at first but eventually becomes good because... well, she sucks now. And with status attacks is you never know if they'll work on a creature till you try a bunch and don't know which Bind will stop that scary ability. Things weak to magic are more obvious.

Mightyblue
06-04-2007, 04:04 PM
Try going the sword path on DH's, Drain works wonders, especially once you start getting into FOE battles where they one and two shot your people before you level up enough. Also, I think the more SP you dump into a skill the more effective it is (in terms of inflicting the stat effect), so it's more beneficial to master one stat/bind skill at a time than dabbling one or two points here and there.

Sean
06-04-2007, 09:45 PM
The only thing that I can't figure out is how to see what my characters have equipped when I am trying to buy new weapons in the goods store. At best I just look first and write it on a sheet of paper before going into the store. I find it very frustrating but there must be an easier way. Right?

As far as I know, there isn't a "quick way" to do it. I guess it's all in the name of that particular brand of "old school" that, while most appreciated and even challenging and not hand-holding on many levels, makes simple tasks more difficult than they should have been. I think if they are going to make choices like this, they should give us a memo pad for notes in the game and save us some paper. I'm sure someone's remark will be, "Why not just remember what they have and approximately how powerful they are?" and I'll go ahead and say that I see and appreciate the work ethic there. I guess flexing the brain muscle even in such little ways will do nothing but good in the long run.

Coinspinner
06-05-2007, 12:32 AM
The first time my Protector used Flee I muttered "train to bf1", chuckling. That simple skill took me back to every mad dash to the zoneline I ever made at low levels in FFXI; aggro slipping from one character to the next, random mobs adding along the way, people /shouting at us, demanding that we just find a distant corner and die. This game is awesome.

As far as I know, there isn't a "quick way" to do it. I guess it's all in the name of that particular brand of "old school" that, while most appreciated and even challenging and not hand-holding on many levels, makes simple tasks more difficult than they should have been.
<...>

With three buttons being used for the map, you'd think they'd have found a use for the select button.

ericmushroomwilson
06-05-2007, 08:35 AM
I was hoping someone would've made another Etrian Odyssey thread now that the forum's back up. This game is awesome. I've beat a few F.O.E.s by now, but they still did huge amounts of damage when I was fighting them. My team at the moment consists of a Landsknecht, Protector, Survivalist, Medic and Alchemist.

Someone mentioned that bows do the same damage from the back row - do you think it's better to have the Survivalist on the back row, in that case?

Also, do the highest level, all-enemy-hitting spells get cheaper as you level them up? My Alchemist has Thor, which usually seems to take out an entire group of the enemies I'm fighting at the moment, but it costs quite a bit of TP...

Sean
06-05-2007, 09:13 AM
Also, do the highest level, all-enemy-hitting spells get cheaper as you level them up? My Alchemist has Thor, which usually seems to take out an entire group of the enemies I'm fighting at the moment, but it costs quite a bit of TP...

I'm guessing your best bet is just to work on making sure your Alch's have plenty of TP by adding skill points to that as I doubt that the spells do anything but cost more as you go along.

sraymonds
06-05-2007, 09:25 AM
I want to play this game, but the Marvel VS TCG for the DS kind of took over my play time. My team kind of sucked too.

Coinspinner
06-05-2007, 12:05 PM
Well I bit the bullet and went to GameFAQs. I no longer regret my Dark Hunter and now know how some of the more mysterious skills work... but man, the aftertaste.

Dhroo
06-05-2007, 03:58 PM
Fenrir is totally ruining my day. So I am just going to have to do a ton of leveling to beat him, or do I need to start playing smarter?

Got Land, DH, Surv, Medic, and Alch right now, but I'm definitely gonna switch out the hunter for a Pro, since he's not really all that useful. The status effects just aren't working often enough, and I might need to sink in a lot of points before they do. Besides, I need to learn how to use a protector properly anyway.

Coinspinner
06-05-2007, 05:13 PM
Shield skills seem to be the way to go for Protectors. I know I haven't used my Protector's Cure in ages and regret the four points it took to get. I think a Provoke style Protector would take more points to achieve the same thing as a shield type. Flee is very useful though.

Well that's another newb's guess anyway. I'm down to Fenrir's level now. And wishing I could reset My Protector. I wonder if going 20-30 takes longer than going 1-15.

ericmushroomwilson
06-06-2007, 07:35 AM
I'm guessing your best bet is just to work on making sure your Alch's have plenty of TP by adding skill points to that as I doubt that the spells do anything but cost more as you go along.

Yeah, the spells do seem to cost more as you level them up. I think I'll probably put a few points into TP Up then...

Coinspinner
06-08-2007, 10:08 AM
Pffft, Fenrir was a pushover. I thought I'd have to level up to beat him so I went down to see how bad it was. My guys where even half spent from the beetles and skolls but we still whipped him. Gag is love.

jovewolf
06-08-2007, 10:19 AM
Yeah, the spells do seem to cost more as you level them up. I think I'll probably put a few points into TP Up then...

That's a good plan. Besides you need quite a few TP Up points to get Warp, which will save you a fair bit from not buying warp wires.

Coinspinner
06-09-2007, 12:54 AM
I just spent 30 mind numbing minutes killing butterflies in BF1 for a quest I got after entering the BF7. No insect eyes. The item description states that they are worthless if damaged. I remembered burning mandrakes to get charcoal. So I tried killing butterflies with alchemy. Bam, up to my eyeballs in eyeballs.

...I love this game.

Eusis
06-09-2007, 01:47 AM
I'd figure setting them on fire is more likely to damage their eyes then simply cutting them in half, but hey, game logic! It's more convenient than poisoning them anyway.

Torgo
06-09-2007, 07:45 AM
I just spent 30 mind numbing minutes killing butterflies in BF1 for a quest I got after entering the BF7. No insect eyes. The item description states that they are worthless if damaged. I remembered burning mandrakes to get charcoal. So I tried killing butterflies with alchemy. Bam, up to my eyeballs in eyeballs.
Wait... I'm missing out on items depending on what I kill the monsters with?

Crap.

Torgo
06-09-2007, 08:22 AM
Anyway, lets talk party formation.

Current floor: B6F
Party Level: 18

Front Line

Protector - Torgo
HP up: Level 4
DEF up: Level 5
Shields: Level 4
Provoke: Level 6
F. Guard: Level 1

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure exactly what I'm doing with this guy yet. I've been heading in the direction of tanking with Provoke, but I'm not entirely sure how viable that's going to be in the long run. (I'm pretty sure that this type of build is the result of way too much FFXI.)

Landsknecht - Leonard
TP up: Level 3
ATK up: Level 2
DEF up: Level 4
Axes: Level 1
Swords: Level 7
Cleaver: Level 1
Blazer: Level 1

I was pretty psyched when I found out that Blazer, Freezer, and Shocker is dependent on having a second character that can cast elemental spells to begin with. So much for having be my outlet for elemental damage. Outside o that, I'm totally freaking schizophrenic with where I'm allocating this guy's points. I'm thinking about maxing out both Swords and Axes, then going for 2-Hit. His problem is that he has a nasty tendency to die. Seriously, despite current armor and four points into DEF up, it seems like he takes hits worse then...

Medic - Angie
HP up: Level 6
ATK up: Level 10
Healer: Level 1
Cure: Level 1
Caduceus: Level 1
Chop: Level 1

Ignore the one point into Chop. I was young and stupid, okay!? Besides that, I'm pretty sure Angie is my favorite of the bunch right now. She doesn't take hits well, but she manages to survive a nasty encounter more then the rough and tough warrior next to her. Also, she currently deals more damage then anyone in my party. Rock on. The idea is that I'm going to max out HP up, ATK up, and Caduceus, then move onto light healing and ancillary skills like Scavenge... assuming characters get that high leveled before game's end. Overall, the whole thing is working out pretty darn well so far.

Back Line

Survivalist - Lamia
AGI up: Level 3
Bows: Level 3
Ambush: Level 1
Quicken: Level 10
Chop: Level 2
Mine: Level 1

Again, resource harvesting skills = early stupid mistakes. Not surprisingly, Lamia's my fastest character. Quicken gives me a pretty good advantage against FOEs, and the point I just put into Ambush is so far paying off. She deals pretty good damage to boot. Other then that... not too sure what I should do. Maybe max out bows, or maybe go for some more buffs/debuffs. Has anyone tried 1st Hit yet? Does the effect last the whole battle or just that turn, because that would give me an awesome advantage for healing. Trickery also looks good.

Medic - Derek
TP up: Level 1
Healer: Level 10
Cure: Level 5
Cure III: Level 3
Revive: Level 1

My main healer, clearly. Does squat for damage, and will keel over pretty quickly if he becomes a target. I'm not entirely sure exact what healing skills to allocate points into though. Am I wasting time by putting points into Cure I? It's still pretty darn effective. I'm pretty sure I should start investing into Salve I and II soon. I'm starting to find mobs that are using attacks that hit my whole party, which is extraordinarily displeasing.

And the rest
A pair of Survivalists, Jim and Jeff, used strictly for harvesting.


That's pretty much it. Outside of my Landsknecht (which is a shame because he deals pretty good damage), I'm quite pleased with out well the setup is working. I'm pretty sure not having any elemental damage is going to come to to haunt me, though. And unless I want to take out my Survivalist, I would have to take out a front row character, which I really don't want to do. I tried having just two front line characters at the beginning, and it was awful. I moved Angie to the front line and my performance improved instantly.

BEAT
06-09-2007, 10:29 AM
I'm not certain if I'm enjoying Etrian Oddesy per say, but I am playing it whenever I get a free chance, so I guess that's something.

Just beat the purple-mantis looking FOE on the third level.

Coinspinner
06-09-2007, 01:48 PM
Honestly, I'm not entirely sure exactly what I'm doing with this guy yet. I've been heading in the direction of tanking with Provoke, but I'm not entirely sure how viable that's going to be in the long run. (I'm pretty sure that this type of build is the result of way too much FFXI.)
If Parry goes first like the Guard skills then you could combo it with slow-ass Provoke against single enemies. If not, I think defend starts working at the start of the round anyway.

I'm thinking about maxing out both Swords and Axes, then going for 2-Hit. His problem is that he has a nasty tendency to die. Seriously, despite current armor and four points into DEF up, it seems like he takes hits worse then...
Really? Mine is as tough as my protector.

I'm not entirely sure exact what healing skills to allocate points into though. Am I wasting time by putting points into Cure I? It's still pretty darn effective. I'm pretty sure I should start investing into Salve I and II soon. I'm starting to find mobs that are using attacks that hit my whole party, which is extraordinarily displeasing.

Salve is about as strong as Cure and more efficient as soon as you're healing two people with it. So yeah.

Here are my pokémans. Apparently VBulletin doesn't allow consecutive spaces, and ]Code[ doesn't know how to wrap, so you have to deal with the bad formatting.

L21 Protector: AgriasJr
HP Up: 3 Cure: 1
DEF Up: 3 Provoke: 1 Flee: 1
Shields: 4 F.Guard: 3 B.Guard: 3 Defender: 4

I regret the point in Provoke and the extra point in shields. Cure was too useful at low levels to really regret even if I don't use it anymore. My intention with her is to max out Defender (which is a simple DEF buff for the party, no downside) then figure out what to do next. Her main tactic against F.O.E. is to cast Defender then spam F.Guard, which prevents anybody in the front row (coughdarkhuntercough) from being one-shot. Guards always go first and will reduce damage from the first attack made by the enemy on that row, including attack-all skills like the Moa's ability. She's gotten to be a weak attacker and always goes last or next to last in battle.

L21 Landsknecht: Prettz
HP Up: 1 ATK Up: 1 Mine: 1
Axes: 5
Swords: 5 Cleaver: 1 Allslash: 1
2-Hit: 8

I regret nothing. He takes about the same damage as my Protector, has about the same HP, and does far more damage. And it's such a pain to get my weak survivalists down to the second strata that his Mine skill actually put a few new items in the shop long before they could have. Allslash is brutal. He will be a sword specialist.

L21 Dark Hunter: Kyahaha
HP Up: 1 ATK Up: 1
Whips: 4 Viper: 2
Gag: 6 Shackles: 3 Cuffs: 6

Her bind abilities now rape F.O.E.s. It seems her actual level is taken into account when calculatin success, as level 6 Cuffs and Gag refused to stick on BF6's bear F.O.E.s after 20 lashes but now, after gainign a few levels, land easily. In fact level 2 Shackles started landing on Moa's without much trouble, basically reducing their damage output to zilch. I intend to pursue Exctacy then decide on ow to proceed.

L22 Medic: Required
Healer: 5 Patch Up: 1
Cure: 3 Salve: 3 Cure II: 3
Refresh: 5 Immunize: 3

I intend to put most of his points in Immunize, Cure 3 and Salve 2.

L21 Alchemist: Cloud
TP Up: 5 Sight: 1
Fire Up: 5 Fire: 3 Flame: 1 Inferno: 1
Ice Up: 5 Ice: 1 Cocytus: 1

I'm gonna pump up his Fire skills before working further on Ice. Casting Sight and marking the map gives me a nice warning on where I'm likely to find an F.O.E. It doesn't reveal them all though.

I'm not certain if I'm enjoying Etrian Oddesy per say, but I am playing it whenever I get a free chance, so I guess that's something.

Just beat the purple-mantis looking FOE on the third level.

Hey, I forgot those guys. I should probably kill them now that they probably can't one-shot my Protector.

reibeatall
06-11-2007, 09:48 AM
Girl Medic Action Figure GO!

http://www.hobby-wave.com/LINE_UP/kanseihin/data/medic_G/index.html

bobservo
06-11-2007, 03:52 PM
I just finished the Wyvern's egg mission. How do I go down to the next floor?

Meg
06-11-2007, 04:16 PM
I just finished the Wyvern's egg mission. How do I go down to the next floor?

I just did this yesterday-- You'll want to (carefully) search around the Wyvern some more.

bobservo
06-11-2007, 06:21 PM
I just did this yesterday-- You'll want to (carefully) search around the Wyvern some more.

NO!

Daydreamer
06-14-2007, 01:30 AM
My party is mostly L50-55 on B20F, and I am stuck. Anyone else down this far?

blindblue
06-14-2007, 02:11 AM
Just beat the main game yesterday with my L60 party, after B25F killed me three or four times. When I slew the boss with a well-placed Apollon for 2000+ dmg I beat my chest vigorously and roared at the DS, for I am the master of Etria.

It's probably going to take me a month to finish the post-game Stratum now, it's gotten a bit dull to play for extended lengths. I usually only do one run, then I save and turn it off.

Sprite
06-14-2007, 11:32 AM
Just beat the main game yesterday with my L60 party, after B25F killed me three or four times. When I slew the boss with a well-placed Apollon for 2000+ dmg I beat my chest vigorously and roared at the DS, for I am the master of Etria.

It's probably going to take me a month to finish the post-game Stratum now, it's gotten a bit dull to play for extended lengths. I usually only do one run, then I save and turn it off.

So the last five strata are post-game? Cool. I'm totally going to restructure my party for that.

MarsDragon
06-16-2007, 09:30 PM
I just got this the other day from a friend, and I'm enjoying it surprisingly much considering I never really played this kind of dungeon crawler before. I kinda wish there was more than one save slot, though. I want to have multiple teams or lend this out to friends. In lieu of that I just have 11 characters. I'm a sucker for making themes, even if it's just names.

ATX Team (main guys):

Fighter: Sanger
ATK Up - 2
Swords - 4
Cleaver - 2

He hits stuff. He's pretty good at it, but I should probably put some points into HP soon, as he's pretty fragile too.

Protector: Tasuku
DEF Up: 2
Shields: 3
Provoke: 1
F. Guard: 1
R. Guard: 1

Provoke never seems to do anything, but the Guards have been useful on occasion. And he's a pretty good back-up to Sanger.

Medic: Russel
TP Up: 1
Healer: 2
Patch Up: 2
Cure: 3

I regret those points into Patch Up now, it was before I learned it wasn't really that useful. Right now I'm going for Salve and Refresh as my next skills.

Alchemist: Katina
Fire Up: 3
Toxins: 2
Fire: 3
Poison: 1

Poison was about the only thing getting me through the Ragealope battle. Right now I'm mostly on the Fire track though.

Survivalist: Latooni
AGI Up: 2
Bows: 5
Trickery: 1
Chop: 1

I'm not sure if AGI Up and Trickery actually do anything, but I think casting it for three straight turns on the Ragealope had some effect. A middling fighter, but I'm getting into the better bow skills now, so that should help. The only other person besides Katina to survive the Ragealope battle.

It's the generic party, but they work pretty well. Money is being really tight though, so I'm probably going to spend some time grinding for items and chopping. Does Scavenger help at all or should I concentrate on getting other skills?

Excitemike
06-29-2007, 10:14 PM
Anyone still playing? I just picked this up on Wednesday and I can't put it down. Very addictive gameplay, and wandering around labyrinths is more fun than I thought it would be. So good.

Eusis
06-29-2007, 10:28 PM
I picked it up long enough to kick Fenrir's ass. Then put it back down again. I guess it's a good point to easily resume from anyway.

Torgo
06-29-2007, 10:32 PM
I'm off and on. I'm only at B7F, still making by pretty well with my setup.

Coinspinner
06-30-2007, 12:09 AM
I got distracted by other games and then decided to refresh my DS' warranty. Uh, I mean, it had a scary crack and I sent it in for repairs.

>_>

<_<

...yeah.

Traumadore
06-30-2007, 12:18 AM
My party consists of two landschneckts, a protector, an alchemist and a bard. My plan to strongarm my way through most encounters before the enemy has much chance to act has been working pretty well so far, even on the FOEs. I used to use a survivalist until I started hitting magic-weak enemies that I couldn't kill easily on B3F, then I switched to the alchemist who makes quick work of them.

I love the open ended play style options, even if many folks opt for the effective, standard fighter/mage/healer/rogue dynamic. My head is still spinning with combinations. And I have found the exp curve is pretty forgiving when you want to switch out a character, usually by the time you get down to your current depth they are already a presence in the party.

Meg
06-30-2007, 11:06 AM
I took a break from the game, but I recently picked it back up to make some progress. I've made it down to B14F, but I haven't discovered the trick to the level so I haven't found the way to the next floor. I've been finishing some quests in the meantime. I found these connected floors all the way up to B3F, and it was an absolute cakewalk... until I ran into this golem FOE. Everything else enemy-wise was easy, so I was thinking, "Eh. Easy FOE." It turned me into pulp.

Now I'm thinking that I need a bard.

Excitemike
06-30-2007, 01:39 PM
What are the crystals on each floor for?

SamuelMarston
07-01-2007, 11:32 AM
I miss very much playing this game. I also miss having the time to play videogames.

Meg
07-01-2007, 12:26 PM
What are the crystals on each floor for?

The crystals entwined with ivy are locked doors. You'll find a way to get past them later in the game. It's impossible to miss it, so you don't have to worry about overlooking some plot event.

nathan
07-10-2007, 02:06 PM
I just finished the Wyvern's egg mission. How do I go down to the next floor?

I'm at the Wyvern and my party is at about level 27. Without giving too much away, do I have to level up quite a bit to defeat it or is there a 'secret' way to get the egg that I should be trying to figure out? I just don't want to waste too much time grinding if it isn't necessary.

dwolfe
07-11-2007, 12:58 PM
All level 27, I have a standard PSALM party; level 10 in stunner for L and 10 Apollon for S. I could barely touch the thing when using boosted attacks my first turns, except Stunner/Apollon, and the Wyvern hit me for over double my HP of any character each turn. It was a fast loss.

Meg
07-11-2007, 01:35 PM
I'm at the Wyvern and my party is at about level 27. Without giving too much away, do I have to level up quite a bit to defeat it or is there a 'secret' way to get the egg that I should be trying to figure out? I just don't want to waste too much time grinding if it isn't necessary.

There isn't really a secret to getting the egg other than avoiding the wyvern. As long as you watch the direction she's looking, you can walk circles around her without drawing any attention. I'm not sure if it's random or not, but the egg is on the ground nearby.

I ignored (and forgot about) the wyvern for a long time. When I hit level 50, I started clearing away some backlogged quests, and while I was on that floor I defeated the wyvern... but I didn't get anything for it. Did I miss something, or was I not supposed to defeat her? I know my party was overleveled because I attempted to kill her much earlier and almost won (if she hadn't killed my medic), but, still, nothing?

Deets
07-11-2007, 03:51 PM
Defeating the Wyvern triggers a post-game quest after you finish the fifth strata. I also thought it had a chance to drop a high-level sale item but maybe not? As for actually beating the monster, maxed immunize should make your party nearly invulnerable.

Kolbe
07-12-2007, 08:53 AM
Back to the Odyssey in hand, did you watch the new trailer in english? I'm really happy this game is coming out this year.

Excitemike
07-12-2007, 09:09 AM
Back to the Odyssey in hand, did you watch the new trailer in english? I'm really happy this game is coming out this year.

Wait, what?

Kolbe
07-12-2007, 09:11 AM
Uh, sorry. REALLY Sorry! I thought this was the Lost Odyssey thread that somehow turned into a Etrian Odyssey thread.

Really, really sorry :o

Excitemike
07-12-2007, 09:18 AM
MAN WHAT A DUNGEON TEASE.

Coinspinner
09-02-2007, 01:43 PM
I missed the boat on the Fun Club outing for Etrian, but I feel like I need to crow about this a little. I just won a 30 round fight with the Golem for the "someguy's" Treasure quest. Levels 37-33, PLDMA.

I had already tried once and failed. I came back with Shock Oil and maxed out everyone's Boost in the easy part of the floor. My Dark Hunter nailed him with a Boosted L10 Gag before he could buff himself but it didn't work. I don't know which bind will stop it's defense and resistance buffs but it's not head bind. The fight wore on, with the front line doing really piddly damage most of the time and the back line defending, waiting for his resist to return to normal or for an opportunity to heal. What I loved is how the fight ended.

When the Golem was at 1/4 health it stopped buffing it's defenses and used Regen, which healed it for more per turn than I was dealing. I remembered the Shock Oil (how long does this stuff last?) and was amazed how much harder I hit with it on, which allowed me to keep whittling it down. Shortly afterwards he alchemist and medic ran out of MP and I stopped B. Guarding them. Thankfully they died before the fighters. My Landsknecht reached max Boost again, and loosed a Boosted, Shock Oiled, Hell Cryed, 2-Hitted double critical for 400 a pop which dropped the Golem down to critical "red" HP. I then had him use a MP restorative on my Dark Hunter as she defended and was F. Guarded by the Protector. She used Climax (only L1!), killing the Golem instantly.

I screamed. Loudly. People heard. I didn't care.

3000 en for the quest, 5000 en for the Golem arm and now the absurdly powerful Meteor Axe is on sale. Now that is a suitable ****ing quest reward. Before typing this up I looked through both threads to see how other people handled this guy. Apparently an instant death attack is required for the Golem Arm, which I didn't know beforehand. Luuuucky.

I had to dip into my item supply and even buy things I'd normally consider novelty items. It was down to the wire at the end and I won with a unlikely gambit. I love fights like that.

Alex
09-02-2007, 05:57 PM
Is there some way to avoid being cursed and/or confused? The combo of the two from the two FOES that guard the entrance to B20F always frustrate me.

I'm experimenting with a SLAMT party. I don't know how I ever got along without a Troubadour.

q 3
09-03-2007, 03:44 PM
Head bind is the easiest way to deal with them - those two FOEs in particular are very susceptible to binds. The Troubador's Recovery skill is probably the second best option. You can also use the Medic's Refresh or Theriaca B, though those will tend to be the least helpful.

Alex
09-03-2007, 09:32 PM
Ooh, thanks. I've been considering dumping a bunch of skill points in my Landsnikt's silencer, and it sounds like it'll help out a bunch.

Is a Ronin interchangeable with an axe-based Landsknecht?

Deets
09-03-2007, 10:21 PM
More or less. If you max Midareba then ronin's can deal absolutely ridiculous damage. The problem is that you have to use a turn going into a stance beforehand, which creates two problems: the first is that you lose a turn (obviously) and the second is that the ronin's stance takes up a buff - your party can only have 3 buffs cast on it at a time, so if you want to use Immunize + Bravery + Relaxing (as an example) your Ronin is shit out of luck.

Alex
09-09-2007, 03:43 PM
So I'm going to try and instant-kill the Golem, who is better for this, Ronins or Dark Hunters?

Sprite
09-09-2007, 03:56 PM
I finally picked this game back up and finished the main quest, just in time to miss the Fun Club! Still, I was happy.

My party right now is PLTMA. More about Buffs than Debuffs, and the only Debuffs I really use are Erasure and a Head Bind move. Will I be in trouble for the post-game stratum (or strata, if there's more than one)?

Also, Relaxing is my favorite move. I haven't slept at an Inn in forever. My party must hate me.

q 3
09-09-2007, 04:27 PM
So I'm going to try and instant-kill the Golem, who is better for this, Ronins or Dark Hunters?

Climax is guaranteed to work - but you need to get the Golem's HP into the red, which is tough if you aren't at a high level. Kubiuchi, on the other hand, could work right away - or it could take twenty turns to kick in, as it's random. I'd go with a Dark Hunter if you're at a high enough level to beat down the Golem normally and a Ronin if you're not.

My party right now is PLTMA. More about Buffs than Debuffs, and the only Debuffs I really use are Erasure and a Head Bind move. Will I be in trouble for the post-game stratum (or strata, if there's more than one)?

Not particularly. Debuffs are certainly very useful in some instances, but Erasure (or a Hexer with Frailty and Relapse) is the only really "necessary" one.

Coinspinner
09-10-2007, 12:38 PM
I lost my motivation to play after accepting a mission to commit genocide. =/

Alex
09-11-2007, 05:50 AM
See, so did I! Thankfully you don't REALLY have to slaughter all the forest folk. Still I feel pretty bad about the whole thing.Still, I'm looking forward to seeing how this all works out.

Indalecio
09-11-2007, 05:54 AM
I lost my motivation to play after accepting a mission to commit genocide. =/

Is it mission, or is it a quest?

IOW, is it optional? I haven't gone past the 7th floor yet.

Coinspinner
09-11-2007, 12:14 PM
Mission. I assume you must accept too, as you will need a key to proceed to the next floor and the Radha have it.

Coinspinner
09-16-2007, 08:03 PM
Huh, I accepted Feat of Strength II and after much ado from Quinn and guild master took my Protector down to place with the lilypads to find and defeat a Killclaw. I fought one battle with some bloodsuckers and got a message telling me the quest was complete. Erm... I accept! I mean, how would they know if I'd actually killed it anyway?

Also, the pearl stuck in my inventory is annoying.

Coinspinner
09-18-2007, 11:04 PM
Alright time to start the Fifth Stratum.

...

O_o

...

Holy crap, did the monster really just drop that?

...

What the heck could I possibly mine here... OMFG! O_o

Alex
09-19-2007, 12:47 AM
I hope in the 6th Stratum you can mine fiberglass insulation and aluminum siding.

The final boss kicked my ass, so I think I'm going to shuffle my party around, maybe bring my Dark Hunter back into the fold.

Coinspinner
09-19-2007, 12:39 PM
Dude, spoilers. :p

Alex
09-20-2007, 10:07 PM
oops. lol

So I finished the game! WOO! Well, the main quest anyway, I'm feeling a bit burnt out after playing the game consistently for like, a month and a half, so I think I'll let the mysteries of the 6th stratum go unexplored for a lil while.

Traumadore
09-21-2007, 10:27 AM
Still rocking the LPLAT party. They didnt start kicking butt until about the fifth floor, but it's been easy going since then. I also just go the quest to one man a killclaw, which seems considerably more daunting than the clawbear thing. I'll be waiting on that one.

Coinspinner
10-03-2007, 01:26 AM
A sequel's been announced. New classes, more colors and icons for the map, new FOE behaviors, pets, two dungeons, and improved shop menus.

I whooped with joy. :D

By the way, what's the password heading in the options menu for? It's always dimmed.

Coinspinner
10-03-2007, 01:48 AM
Ah, I made the clear save and then put the game away. Beautiful, I'm even more hyped. Also, the password is neat. Teal for upper case, white for lower case, orange for numbers, and yellow for symbols. Very helpful.

switchbeat
10-03-2007, 05:08 AM
EO2 is on its way! Hopefully it'll release next year!

dwolfe
10-03-2007, 10:02 AM
There is a sequel announced? WHERE? My frothing demand for this game increases!

*ducks and covers*

I know, worst quote ever. It cracks me up every time.

But seriously, if we finish the game we can import the old characters; and this won't break the new game?? Or we get rewards from the first game? I had abandoned my level 40's or so on level 17 or so, so this will make me go back and finish the game for sure

Parish
10-03-2007, 11:54 AM
In the newest Famitsu, along with a PSP port of Yggdra Union. EO2 will feature two new classes and even more dangerous FOEs. It's gonna be so, so good.

blindblue
10-03-2007, 12:23 PM
In the newest Famitsu, along with a PSP port of Yggdra Union. EO2 will feature two new classes and even more dangerous FOEs. It's gonna be so, so good.

Three - Doctor Magi, Gunners, and Pets (http://img153.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=99326_iup476875_122_1026lo.jpg). I'm already wondering about possible party combinations. How did EO sell domestically? EO2 will definitely get brought over, right?

Coinspinner
10-03-2007, 01:16 PM
I wonder what Doctor Magi is. The description I read made it look like the first game's combat medic build turned into it's own class.

Ben1842
10-03-2007, 01:18 PM
In the newest Famitsu, along with a PSP port of Yggdra Union. EO2 will feature two new classes and even more dangerous FOEs. It's gonna be so, so good.


So is EO2 going to be for PSP as well?

Parish
10-03-2007, 01:22 PM
1. EO2 isn't a Sting game.
2. EO2 wasn't originally designed for GBA.
3. Atlus is only rehashing Sting GBA games on PSP.
4. Ergo, no.

Coinspinner
10-03-2007, 02:37 PM
Plus theres that whole "drawing a map" deal.

Ben1842
10-03-2007, 03:02 PM
Plus theres that whole "drawing a map" deal.

I know that's why I was confused.

mazoboom
10-03-2007, 03:26 PM
Plus theres that whole "drawing a map" deal.

If I remember correctly, Wizardry didn't come with a touch screen.

blindblue
10-03-2007, 03:30 PM
Yeah, and it was decades ago. Even if the hypothetical EO PSP were to come packaged with a tablet of graphing paper, screw that.

Parish
10-03-2007, 03:36 PM
That and the fact that the entire inspiration for EO was drawing a map as you advance.

mazoboom
10-03-2007, 05:19 PM
But seriously, if this is turning into a full-fledged series, then I'm even more proud of my little Latin phrase. Well, even more than vanity, it would be awesome to just continue to have such RPGs as EO to come in a more-or-less guaranteed fashion.

reibeatall
10-04-2007, 08:05 AM
Sequel ahoy! (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3163405)

Kirin
10-04-2007, 10:51 AM
I wonder what Doctor Magi is. The description I read made it look like the first game's combat medic build turned into it's own class.

From the character design in the scan, he looks like the kind of thing you might translate as "Shaman".

Coinspinner
10-04-2007, 02:40 PM
From the character design in the scan, he looks like the kind of thing you might translate as "Shaman".

Doctor Magi... Doctor Witch... Witch Doctor... Shaman. Ok, I get it now. :D

It's interesting that they say they chose to make a sequel "when they looked into the template and realized they could improve the balance of the calculations and skills, as well as brushing up the existing formula." It's a normal thing to do in a sequel, just seems like an odd reason to make one.

Mazian
10-07-2007, 10:14 PM
I have made, I fear, a grave error in judgment.

EO went to the top of my list of "things I want to play, but don't currently have the time for" upon release, so I didn't buy it then. Now I've got a bit more time coming up... but meanwhile, of course, it's disappeared from store shelves. I really should have paid more attention to that "Atlus" logo in the corner and its implications for availability post-launch.

Anyone know where I might get my dungeon grinding fix without resorting to eBay gougers?

Alex
10-08-2007, 12:11 AM
I paid less than MSRP for it on eBay, though!

Coinspinner
10-11-2007, 10:13 PM
I can't get into FFT again for some reason. So it's back to this for now.

The 6th stratum is hellish. I thought the monsters in the 5th wore me out fast, this is much worse. I couldn't find a way to do so much as injure the Iron Crabs with the team I've got so I have to run from those. Maybe Volt, poison, or Insta-death will work. Or maybe they're like the metal slimes in DQ and you have to chip away. The FOEs I fought there were nothing special though: Immunize, spam attacks, ZZZ. They need to fix that spell in the sequel, it's nuts.

I took on a quest involving the Wyvern on B7F. I killed her recently for sport so I was glad she'd respawned. She's quite tough and can hit hard too, last time I fought her I had gone easy on her using just Defender and nearly wiped, then nearly wiped again when I failed to win before Immunize wore. I was supposed to kill her "quickly" this time. I killed her in 7 turns and nothing happened. Reset. I ran around her trying to trigger an event but nothing happened. I won in 6 rounds next time, nothing. So I peek at a FAQ. 3 turns. I had to win in half as many turns.

We're level 65 and very well equipped not going to get a lot stronger. I don't think it's happening, bar obscene luck with DH binds and Smite letting me use Ecstasy on round 3. So I figured I needed a different party and started looking at my options. I figure I can lose the medic as it'll be a short walk and a shorter fight. I figure an Ronin is unlikely to hit with his instant death thingy, and a second alchemist or survivalist would take a long time to grind high enough to do a lot of damage. I could get a Troubadour to max out Bravery in no time though, so I do that.

20 minutes later I've got Shilleka's slacker older sister in the party, level 18 and equipped with some ridiculously expensive bow she can twing-twang with for 70 damage. We head down to BF7 and begin the process of maxing out everyone's Boost. When we're ready we approach the black FOE from behind, giving Shellika (OMG I am bad at names) a better chance of surviving to sing her song. She Boosts it, the rest of the team waits till round 2 to expend their Boosts. Holy Christ, Bravery is awesome! We goddamn demolished the Wyvern on round 3, mission accomplished! I got an item for beating it worth about 5k, but the quest required it to be completed and offered a higher reward.

TLDR: Level 18 Troubadour > Wyvern

Brickroad
10-12-2007, 08:57 AM
TLDR: Level 18 Troubadour > Wyvern

And this is what is so great about the game as a whole; the answer usually isn't more grinding, but just a different strategy.

That's why I keep my guild stocked with fully equipped people of all classes.

Coinspinner
10-12-2007, 01:38 PM
Only really works with support classes though. I have a level 26 Ronin with Midareba and even with the best armor and weapon available his damage is inferior to my Dark Hunter.

SamuelMarston
11-03-2007, 10:31 PM
This is probably dumb, but I can't seem to get past the Stalker at the beginning of BF3. I make short work of the enemies I randomly encounter to that point (really short work, and I get even shorter experience), but this Stalker is killing off my guys in 1-2 hits. Should I be running away from it like the introduction to the level hinted, or should I be able to beat it?

I'm running a party of level 12 dudes, Protector, Dark Hunter, Landsknecht, Medic and Alchemist.

Tips?

Traumadore
11-03-2007, 10:43 PM
Your level is really good for where you're at, you just have to take careful note of how certain foes behave.

Stalkers for instance will charge at you if they see you, but they will wait and watch every 4th step. That's your opening to sneak by. Just move straight down from the stairs until you pass the file he is in, then head west to find a door. You will have to evade another in the next room a little differently. Once you get more familiar, you can start to identify foes by how they behave, so pay attention to the map, even when fighting.

Coinspinner
11-03-2007, 10:58 PM
This is probably dumb, but I can't seem to get past the Stalker at the beginning of BF3. I make short work of the enemies I randomly encounter to that point (really short work, and I get even shorter experience), but this Stalker is killing off my guys in 1-2 hits. Should I be running away from it like the introduction to the level hinted, or should I be able to beat it?

I'm running a party of level 12 dudes, Protector, Dark Hunter, Landsknecht, Medic and Alchemist.

Tips?

Ah, that was my party too. It's possible to win that fight at your level. Much like it's possible to survive jumping out of an airplane with no parachute.

...

Dodge them. Two steps South, West all the way to the wall, South to the exit. The encounter rate is very low, but a random battle can screw you over. Might want to consider the Stalker skill or a Ward Chime.

The next one has a straight line path so you can catch it's attention, back up, side step, then slip around it with lots of room to spare. Watch the random encounter gauge though.

SamuelMarston
11-04-2007, 12:06 PM
Your level is really good for where you're at, you just have to take careful note of how certain foes behave.

Stalkers for instance will charge at you if they see you, but they will wait and watch every 4th step. That's your opening to sneak by. Just move straight down from the stairs until you pass the file he is in, then head west to find a door. You will have to evade another in the next room a little differently. Once you get more familiar, you can start to identify foes by how they behave, so pay attention to the map, even when fighting.

Bravo!

Ah, that was my party too. It's possible to win that fight at your level. Much like it's possible to survive jumping out of an airplane with no parachute.

...

Dodge them. Two steps South, West all the way to the wall, South to the exit. The encounter rate is very low, but a random battle can screw you over. Might want to consider the Stalker skill or a Ward Chime.

The next one has a straight line path so you can catch it's attention, back up, side step, then slip around it with lots of room to spare. Watch the random encounter gauge though.

Thanks guys!

Daydreamer
11-09-2007, 02:38 AM
3 months. My copy of EO got stolen three months, when I was half way through Strata 4. I swore up and down that I would never rebuy or replay the game because of the time sink and the difficulty and all the pain and loss I felt when my carefully tweaked, battle tested, named-and-backstoried characters were taken from me.

At the end of the 2nd floor right now, going back for some FOE farming. CURSE YOU OCD!

Daydreamer
11-29-2007, 08:08 PM
Necropost

Sorry to resurrect the dead, but EO was getting so many nods in the DS epic gaming thread, and something has been itching at me since I started playing again. I'm back down to the 4th strata with almost the same team, and the same strats, and I'm getting a bit peeved by how level based a lot of the game seems to be.

Last time through I picked up a Ronin to replace my Protector as soon as possible, and ground him up to the mid 30's pretty quick, but even with the best gear possible he was getting creamed. Sure strategy counts, but even with defender every fight, and immunize every FOE/Boss, the ronin was still dying left and right - and he was only 7-8 levels behind, putting him 3-4 below target while the rest were 2-3 above. He could dish out excellent damage, but he couldn't take it at all.

By the simple expedient of keeping my protector, and not making the same mistakes with my skills on my Troubador and Alchemist (which forced a rest/skill reset), has made the entire game significantly easier. that 10-level penalty doesn't seem like much, but it can be brutal.

So: Going to get EO2 at launch, but I'm strongly wishing they make defense a bit more gear based, and more generous to none-L/P frontliners, and I'm hoping they ease up on the rest system just a little.

PS: Onward to the bird-freak. Again.

Alex
11-29-2007, 09:53 PM
I wonder if your Ronin dying has more to do with the fact that they're a Ronin, and less as to what level they were.

SamuelMarston
11-29-2007, 10:11 PM
When does the rest option become available?

Sigh. I just don't have time for the game, but I do love it so...

Daydreamer
11-30-2007, 12:47 AM
I wonder if your Ronin dying has more to do with the fact that they're a Ronin, and less as to what level they were.

Yea, thats kinda what I figured. Most of the best armors are L/P only. I mean, it makes sense to have a melee trinity of defense/mixed/offense with the P/L/R, but shafting Ronin's on armor AND shields AND the defenseive skill was a bit harsh. Especially given their lack of multi-target offensive skills. I want to love me some ronins, but it just ain't happening.

mopinks
11-30-2007, 12:59 AM
I only played this game for ten minutes or so to try it out, long ago, but reading this thread makes me way too scared to ever consider trying to play it for real. I don't have the time for this level of commitment!

incidentally, this is also why I'll probably never make any more progress in FFXII. :<

Daydreamer
11-30-2007, 01:09 AM
I only played this game for ten minutes or so to try it out, long ago, but reading this thread makes me way too scared to ever consider trying to play it for real. I don't have the time for this level of commitment!

incidentally, this is also why I'll probably never make any more progress in FFXII. :<

Its really not all that bad. Especially given the ease with which you can teleport out to rest and save, a run at the dungeon will normally net you ~1 level/char in about 10-15 minutes. So I just play 2-3 runs per day, right before bed. Got the game for the second time on 11/7/07, and I'm now 1/2 done. Slowly but steadily, the Labrynth is falling to my leet mapping skillz.

Egarwaen
11-30-2007, 10:56 AM
Etrian is an excellent pick up and play game. I tend to pick up and play it a couple hours a day for a week or so, then play something else for a while.

SamuelMarston
11-30-2007, 11:08 AM
When can I rest my characters? I would like to move some skills around.

Egarwaen
11-30-2007, 11:22 AM
When can I rest my characters? I would like to move some skills around.

You gain the ability for a character when they reach Level 30.

Daydreamer
11-30-2007, 11:26 AM
When can I rest my characters? I would like to move some skills around.

Min level 30, costs ten levels of XP. In other words: DON'T.

With the sole exception of a Troubadour with points in Stamina/Mercury/Elements, and maybe, MAYBE a Medic with too many points in regen/Healing touch/patch up, its not worth it until way later in the game.

SamuelMarston
11-30-2007, 11:46 AM
Gotcha. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the Stalkers at the beginning of BF3. Seriously. I must be dumb.

Egarwaen
11-30-2007, 11:57 AM
Gotcha. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the Stalkers at the beginning of BF3. Seriously. I must be dumb.

Move around them. For the first one, you can move straight down from the stairs until you're level with the door leading out of that room, then turn and move straight for the door and it'll never catch you. For the second, start level with it and facing it and walk forward until it starts to charge, then turn, step down one, turn, walk forward into the wall, turn, walk up, walk through the opening, turn, and move down into the next room.

Make sure you have a Warp Wire with you, though. I've never tried getting back through them going the other way; I'm not sure if it's even possible.

Indalecio
11-30-2007, 12:03 PM
Make sure you have a Warp Wire with you, though. I've never tried getting back through them going the other way; I'm not sure if it's even possible.

Everytime I forget to get a Warp Wire I wind up regretting it. Don't let the same happen to you.

SamuelMarston
11-30-2007, 12:18 PM
Move around them. For the first one, you can move straight down from the stairs until you're level with the door leading out of that room, then turn and move straight for the door and it'll never catch you. For the second, start level with it and facing it and walk forward until it starts to charge, then turn, step down one, turn, walk forward into the wall, turn, walk up, walk through the opening, turn, and move down into the next room.

Make sure you have a Warp Wire with you, though. I've never tried getting back through them going the other way; I'm not sure if it's even possible.

Could you go over this part with me one more time? I'm sure if I grasped the concepts behind all this I could come up with my own complex dodging patterns, but I don't as of yet.

Daydreamer
11-30-2007, 12:33 PM
Could you go over this part with me one more time? I'm sure if I grasped the concepts behind all this I could come up with my own complex dodging patterns, but I don't as of yet.

[F] = foe
[Y] = You
[ ] = space
[|] = wall

Walk up until you're level with him then

[f][ ][ ][ ][y]
[|][ ][ ][ ][ ]

[ ][f][ ][y][ ]
[|][ ][ ][ ][ ]

[ ][ ][f][ ][ ]
[|][ ][ ][y][ ]

[ ][ ][ ][f][ ]
[|][ ][y][ ][ ]

[ ][ ][ ][f][ ]
[|][y][ ][ ][ ]

[ ][y][ ][f][ ]
[|][ ][ ][ ][ ]

[y][ ][ ][f][ ]
[|][ ][ ][ ][ ]

or something like that. Can't remember exactly how many spaces away you start

Egarwaen
11-30-2007, 12:37 PM
Could you go over this part with me one more time? I'm sure if I grasped the concepts behind all this I could come up with my own complex dodging patterns, but I don't as of yet.

Okay, you've got two rectangular rooms connected by a one-square wide corridor at the top. The Strider is sitting in the corridor. Striders charge straight ahead when they see an enemy. So you can:

1) Walk to the top row of the rooms and move forward until the strider starts charging (it should be several squares away at this point, and visible on your map as an angry red arrow)

2) Turn and move out of the way. This means it doesn't charge into you and you don't have to fight it. This is good, because it will kill you dead.

3) Move forward, then up into the top row again. This means that the Strider is now behind you, and you're between it and the one-square corridor where it normally sits.

4) Move in to the second room, and then get out of the way. I'm pretty sure it charges in the other direction too, so you really want to get out of the top line of squares in that room as soon as possible.

Once you're out of there, I'm pretty sure you're free and clear. Striders don't seem to have much peripheral vision, and I've never seen that one charge me when I'm anywhere else in either room there. It doesn't seem to patrol either, so it's really easy to dodge after you do it once.

ETA: Yeah, Daydreamer's got a good diagram too. :)

SamuelMarston
11-30-2007, 01:14 PM
Thanks guys, I'll give that a try.

Daydreamer
11-30-2007, 01:44 PM
You know, the fact that we can map and plan out a way through a tricky portion of the early game from memory, is rather indicative of a certain level of obsession. Either that or we have eiditic memory.

SamuelMarston
11-30-2007, 01:55 PM
Or it could be the grid based, FOE tracking presentation that has ingrained a survival situation into you.

Egarwaen
11-30-2007, 02:23 PM
I'd guess it's because I went by that FOE about a billion times while grinding to beat Fenrir. ;)

Little Sampson
11-30-2007, 03:00 PM
I adore this game. I've managed to make it to BF 10 with a standard PSALM party, will I ever get to a point where I need to change it?

Daydreamer
11-30-2007, 03:52 PM
I adore this game. I've managed to make it to BF 10 with a standard PSALM party, will I ever get to a point where I need to change it?

Yea, by Strata 6 you're going to need a troubadour in there somewhere for relaxing, bravery, and erasure. Though they can make the game much easier as early as Fenrir.

Egarwaen
11-30-2007, 04:10 PM
Yea, by Strata 6 you're going to need a troubadour in there somewhere for relaxing, bravery, and erasure. Though they can make the game much easier as early as Fenrir.

Which members of the party can the Troubadour replace? I assume Medic and Landsnecht are there to stay, but what about the others?

Little Sampson
11-30-2007, 04:15 PM
If I had to pick one right now, it would probably be my Survivalist, he's good, there's just nothing that really makes him stand out.

This discussion is giving me flashbacks to playing the original FF. Which is totally awesome.

Daydreamer
11-30-2007, 05:44 PM
If I had to pick one right now, it would probably be my Survivalist, he's good, there's just nothing that really makes him stand out.

This discussion is giving me flashbacks to playing the original FF. Which is totally awesome.

Yea, survivalists are over-rated in my book. They're second rate damage dealers with a few utility skills that can either A) be itemized (enemy avoidance) B) can be spread out (take/mine/chop) or C) are overrated (1st turn)

At least for the 5th-6th strata, you absolutely must have a medic (group heal/immunize) a troubadour (listed above) an alchemist (elemental damage) and a protector (anti-element skills, meat shield). The 5th can go to any DD, but the survivability, versatility, and multi-target skills of a Landsneckt make them the obvious choice.

Some of the classes in EO are neat (Hexer, Dark Hunter, I'm looking at YOU) but frankly are way less useful than advertised. I mean, which bosses and foes are susceptible to binds? Cruella, Diabolix, and ...? Which hopefully the sequel will ameliorate a bit.

SamuelMarston
11-30-2007, 06:09 PM
I've never gotten binds to work.

What is the distinction between Head, Legs and Arms? Abilities, Movement/order speed, and attacks?

Mazian
11-30-2007, 06:19 PM
I'm getting back to this after a few weeks off, still cruising around the second stratum. My Alchemist's specializing in fire and poison right now. I know that poison tops off eventually, but it's great at these levels -- is it worth dropping some points into the 2nd and 3rd-tier poison spells, or simply focusing on the first one?

Re: binds - I got in a lucky first-turn Leg bind on Fenrir, which shut down some of his nastier attacks right away. I haven't discovered any elegant general rule for what to bind on what enemies, though.

SamuelMarston
11-30-2007, 06:25 PM
I think that the beautiful complexity of this game is part of what makes it so attractive. There is so much in there to learn.

Part of me wants to abandon all my other games and dive back in. Sigh. Argh. Sigh. Argh. Sigh.

Egarwaen
11-30-2007, 06:34 PM
I've never gotten binds to work.

What is the distinction between Head, Legs and Arms? Abilities, Movement/order speed, and attacks?

Binds seem to only affect special abilities, not normal attacks or normal attributes. So if the enemy's just smacking you around, they won't help. But every FOE and boss I've run into so far has at least one special attack. Most special attacks can be disabled by one or more binds. Which depends on the kind of attack. For example, most "physical" special attacks involve the arms, audible or spell-type abilities involve the head, and "charge-type" or "movement-ish" abilities involve the legs.

I've got one of my Dark Hunter's binds up to 5th level, and it makes a big difference. It's probably only 5-10% or so, but it seems to be a lot more effective. Plus, you eventually get Ecstasy and Climax. Survivalists seem to be mostly good for Apollon, which probably doesn't stack up well against Double Hit and the Landsnecht's other abilities later on.

I'm not too far in, but I've been playing around a lot with different classes. At least this early, they seem quite well-balanced, though I wish there was a better way to reset skill point expenditures. I'd love to play around with the Protector's taunt abilities, for example, but with so many good things to sink points into on that character (Defender, Def Up/Shield Up, F. Guard/R. Guard, HP Up, TP Up, ...) it's hard to justify. And it's a bit of a glaring omission in a game that otherwise encourages you to experiment.

Coinspinner
11-30-2007, 08:33 PM
Min level 30, costs ten levels of XP. In other words: DON'T.

With the sole exception of a Troubadour with points in Stamina/Mercury/Elements, and maybe, MAYBE a Medic with too many points in regen/Healing touch/patch up, its not worth it until way later in the game.

Getting an Alchemist's Poison or Venom spell to level 8 ASAP,then resting him at 30 to pursue an elemental build works out great too. At level 9, 255 damage per turn is sick, and it rarely fails to land. After resting him his elemental skills can be increased to what they used to be with the points you got back.


~~~

The final story boss is very susceptible to Bind moves. My DH, Kyahaha, got to spam Ecstasy. It made dragging her along for the whole game almost worth it, not that that guy is even hard. Regular enemies eventually gave me more trouble than FOEs or even bosses. =/

On the subject of binds, at least half the FOEs can be hit with them, but the odds are about 15% for A DH and 30% for a Hexer. Much higher earlier in the game, but it drops off around the 3rd stratum. That is with a full 10 points in the skill too. Also consider that the DH is doing mediocre damage with her skill and the Hexer does none. I seriously hope these guys are improved in the sequel, since I love winning with debuffs.

Could you go over this part with me one more time? I'm sure if I grasped the concepts behind all this I could come up with my own complex dodging patterns, but I don't as of yet.

I think my directions are simplest.


Dodge them. Two steps South, West all the way to the wall, South to the exit. The encounter rate is very low, but a random battle can screw you over. Might want to consider the Stalker skill or a Ward Chime.

The next one has a straight line path so you can catch it's attention, back up, side step, then slip around it with lots of room to spare. Watch the random encounter gauge though.

Coinspinner
12-01-2007, 01:09 PM
B27F is awesome and terrible. The after a whole floor of one-way passages leading to trial-and-error teleporters I get to a floor of trial-and-error pitfalls that throw you into a whole floor of damage tiles crawling with FOEs that always get a pre-emptive strike. I was about to give up when I finally spotted an FOE on the pitfalls floor. So I followed it, an it led me through a safe path. The Alchemist's Sight spell and whatever the Survivalist's analogue of it is called are genuinely useful here.

Daydreamer
12-01-2007, 07:06 PM
Getting an Alchemist's Poison or Venom spell to level 8 ASAP,then resting him at 30 to pursue an elemental build works out great too. At level 9, 255 damage per turn is sick, and it rarely fails to land. After resting him his elemental skills can be increased to what they used to be with the points you got back.


Oh I got poison, but I'm still using it. Up through the third strata its just slaughters FOEs, and in the fourth its still useful for regular enemies. I'm fire/ice/poison, so if I have the enemies elemental weakness, I can peg them for 300ish, or if not poison for 255/turn. Either way I win and they die.

Dadgum Roi
12-07-2007, 10:28 AM
ZOMFG ADDICTIVE.

ZOMFG BDSM REFERENCES.

Egarwaen
12-07-2007, 10:59 AM
ZOMFG ADDICTIVE.

ZOMFG BDSM REFERENCES.

Did you see the comics (http://www.atlus.com/etrian/comic.htm) on the Etrian site (http://www.atlus.com/etrian/)? The Dark Hunter one (#3) is... Unique.

Egarwaen
12-07-2007, 11:43 AM
Okay, actual gameplay question for you guys... How do you handle Gathering skills? I've been trying to keep an alternate party going with gathering skills, but keeping them equipped and levelled is a pain in the ass.

Dadgum Roi
12-07-2007, 01:59 PM
The Dark Hunter one (#3) is... Unique.

[shakes head]

As for gathering, I've just given my main characters a few levels in their skill. That's working okay so far- I can usually get about half the cost of a stay at the inn with four uses of chop.

Coinspinner
12-07-2007, 01:59 PM
Okay, actual gameplay question for you guys... How do you handle Gathering skills? I've been trying to keep an alternate party going with gathering skills, but keeping them equipped and levelled is a pain in the ass.

At first I had 4 survivalists with level 4 chop that I took to the easy chop point at BF1. Then I specialized each one in a different gathering skill and took whichever had the skill I intended to gather with down to whichever point I wanted to gather from. The rest of the party was my regular guys, primarily the landsknect and medic, and usually the protector for Stalker.

I don't level the survivalists, but they gain enough levels anyway.

Brickroad
12-07-2007, 02:08 PM
I have three gatherers, each with 3 points in each gathering skill, and the rest funneled into some attack skills. I just give them whatever hand-me-downs the rest of the party are done with. When it's time to go gathering I throw a medic and a protector in the party and they're generally in good shape.

Daydreamer
12-07-2007, 02:37 PM
The survivalist teams really only work in the first strata or two, after that they start hiding the item points in distant corners. And when your main team is having trouble surviving fights on a new floor/strata, one surprise attack or failed attempt at running will wipe them out. I just put 1 point on each character, with 1 bonus on the troubadour for 2/ea or 4 collections per type per day. By the third or fourth strata, you'll be making a lot more money from each item drop anyways, so grinding for cash becomes more of a fighting thing.

EDIT: F25 finally, woot.

Egarwaen
12-07-2007, 03:29 PM
By the third or fourth strata, you'll be making a lot more money from each item drop anyways, so grinding for cash becomes more of a fighting thing.

Oh, that's good to hear. I know that in the first two strata, fighting didn't give much cash at all, so I had to make regular materials runs to get money. I assume you've still got to gather some stuff to meet item prerequisites and for quests and stuff, but not nearly as much?

Daydreamer
12-07-2007, 08:58 PM
Oh, that's good to hear. I know that in the first two strata, fighting didn't give much cash at all, so I had to make regular materials runs to get money. I assume you've still got to gather some stuff to meet item prerequisites and for quests and stuff, but not nearly as much?

Yea, the worst I've seen so far is "1 of the rare drop from point X on floor Y", which took me three passes to find.

Dadgum Roi
12-10-2007, 06:20 AM
What does the troubador's Speed buff do? Boost AGI? Also, do buffs like this one and Bravery last for the entire battle? Similar question for the Ward Chime- how long does it last?

Healy
12-10-2007, 06:55 AM
I don't know about the other stuff, but the ward chime lasts for 60 turns. It says so in the menu when you use it.

Also, does anyone have advice for getting through the beginning of the second stratum? I seem to be in way over my head over there.

q 3
12-10-2007, 07:06 AM
What does the troubador's Speed buff do? Boost AGI? Also, do buffs like this one and Bravery last for the entire battle?

Yeah, basically. Though while the Troubador's buffs last the entire battle, all other classes' buffs only last five turns. And anyone who dies loses any buffs they had on them (but not any that they had cast on others).

For the second stratum, just go slow, and stay close to the warp (or carry plenty of warp wires). The enemies are a lot more powerful, sure, but their drops unlock more powerful gear. Once you can deck your party out with better equipment things should get, well, not easier but more manageable at least.

Coinspinner
12-10-2007, 05:02 PM
The beginning of the second stratum is the toughest part of the game. Well, besides the bonus strata, but those are more like a punishment for liking the game than a challenge.

Dadgum Roi
12-14-2007, 06:32 AM
I love the mapping in this game. I really wish someone would do Uncharted Etrian Waters.

Indalecio
12-14-2007, 06:35 AM
I love the mapping in this game. I really wish someone would do Uncharted Etrian Waters.

Sea tile, sea tile, sea tile, sea tile, sea tile, sea tile, ...

Dadgum Roi
12-14-2007, 06:46 AM
Sea tile, sea tile, sea tile, sea tile, sea tile, sea tile, ...

The coasts, man! You could just use auto-map for the open ocean.

Plus, I think the later Japan-only UWs let you explore on land. I saw some pretty badass screenshots of Tenochtitlán from the MMO.

Egarwaen
12-15-2007, 05:42 PM
I just finished the "Spend 5 days on B8" while installing OS X Leopard. I even spent most of the time wandering around fighting monsters instead of camping the three squares in front of the recovery spring. It wasn't that bad, and got me some much-needed levels. My Troubadour went from level 1 to level 27, and I got to try out a bunch of skills on my Medic and Protector.

Parry and Provoke actually look pretty good, and Healing Touch looks like it's what Patch Up should've been. Would I be right in guessing that En Guarde gives the Protector a chance to parry any enemy attack? If so, it looks disgustingly good.

Coinspinner
12-15-2007, 06:19 PM
It parries regular attacks. It just displays as a miss.

q 3
12-15-2007, 06:29 PM
Healing Touch looks like it's what Patch Up should've been.

Healing Touch makes Patch Up look positively broken. You don't want it, trust me.

Would I be right in guessing that En Guarde gives the Protector a chance to parry any enemy attack? If so, it looks disgustingly good.

It gives a chance to reduce damage (by up to 50%) but does not completely block attacks.

Egarwaen
12-15-2007, 06:42 PM
Healing Touch isn't good? It looks good... Lots of cheap healing after battles. What's the problem with it? Too little healing to be useful?

About En Guarde... I was wondering if it would parry attacks aimed at anyone, or just attacks aimed at the Protector?

Edit: Basically, I'm wondering if Parry and Provoke and Fortify are worth it at all, or if I'm better off just maxing out Defender, F/B Guard, and getting the anti-element skills to 5s?

Traumadore
12-16-2007, 12:19 AM
I just have the elemental defenses taken care of with my Troubadore, and the protector goes for F/B guard, provoke, defense, HP, and healing magic (he is my out of combat recovery guy).

A generalist troubadore is a great boon to a party, There's no reason to put in more than one point to the elemental attack buffs or defenses for instance. Mine keeps my party alive, using defense and healing songs, combined with my protector's provoke and F/B guards F.O.Es have not been able to pose much of a threat since maybe floor 7 or so even with AOE attacks.

Daydreamer
12-16-2007, 01:07 AM
Healing Touch isn't good? It looks good... Lots of cheap healing after battles. What's the problem with it? Too little healing to be useful? Yea pretty much. The think to understand is that EO, especially late game, beats you by wiping you out not by wearing you down. So after a good fight 1-2 characters are down 50-80% of their health. So even with a 10% heal, you still have to toss them the same 6/10 point heals so they don't die at the next inconvienient breeze.

About En Guarde... I was wondering if it would parry attacks aimed at anyone, or just attacks aimed at the Protector? Na, just him, and you cant use it and attack, or garantee you'll be targeted, so bleh.

Edit: Basically, I'm wondering if Parry and Provoke and Fortify are worth it at all, or if I'm better off just maxing out Defender, F/B Guard, and getting the anti-element skills to 5s?

Provoke does nothing, literally, as far as I can tell. Fortify uses up one of your three precious buff slots, so I generally don't bother in favor of Immunize/Bravery/and Defender or the Troub equiv. Others swear by F and B guard, but I find stacked buffs more effective. The element skill are a must in the post-game, but not much use before that. I'd max HP and Defense up, sheilds, aegis, and en garde, put at least 1 point into smite, and do whatever you like with the rest.

q 3
12-16-2007, 10:11 AM
Healing Touch isn't good? It looks good... Lots of cheap healing after battles. What's the problem with it? Too little healing to be useful?

Healing Touch heals up to a certain percent. If that sounds good, it's only because you're expecting the skill to actually make sense. It doesn't. With Healing Touch at level 1 (Heals up to 25%), someone whose HP is at 1/100 will be healed to 25/100. Someone whose HP is at 13/100 will be healed to 25/100. Someone whose HP is at 24/100 will be healed to 25/100. It never heals anyone to more than the % given, and has no effect on anyone whose HP is currently higher than that %. And since it maxes out at 40%, yes, it's useless, because walking around with 40% of your max HP is an invitation to be wiped out, and any skill to heal your party past that would have done just as well without Healing Touch.

Egarwaen
12-16-2007, 10:30 AM
I just have the elemental defenses taken care of with my Troubadore, and the protector goes for F/B guard, provoke, defense, HP, and healing magic (he is my out of combat recovery guy).

Yeah, but as Nich pointed out a few pages back (or in the fun club or something), a Protector with Level 5 in the anti-element skills will completely negate the associated attack, including all its damage. This is apparently very handy when fighting elemental-y bosses.

A generalist troubadore is a great boon to a party, There's no reason to put in more than one point to the elemental attack buffs or defenses for instance. Mine keeps my party alive, using defense and healing songs, combined with my protector's provoke and F/B guards F.O.Es have not been able to pose much of a threat since maybe floor 7 or so even with AOE attacks.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of doing with mine. A few points all over the map, 10 into the Exp booster skill, and work out the rest from there. How're you finding Provoke?

Na, just him, and you cant use it and attack, or garantee you'll be targeted, so bleh.

Well, you can't guarantee you'll be targetted, but unlike Parry, it's a passive. So you can use it and attack.

Provoke does nothing, literally, as far as I can tell. Fortify uses up one of your three precious buff slots, so I generally don't bother in favor of Immunize/Bravery/and Defender or the Troub equiv. Others swear by F and B guard, but I find stacked buffs more effective. The element skill are a must in the post-game, but not much use before that. I'd max HP and Defense up, sheilds, aegis, and en garde, put at least 1 point into smite, and do whatever you like with the rest.

The three buff slots thing I see being very annoying. That seems to make a lot of otherwise interesting skills (IE, the Landsnecht's Crys) kind of worthless. I mainly see my Protector as a Swiss Army Knife, like my Troubadour. She can do decent damage on attack, do a bit of healing, reduce damage... Whatever's actually needed.

Egarwaen
12-16-2007, 10:32 AM
Healing Touch heals up to a certain percent. If that sounds good, it's only because you're expecting the skill to actually make sense. It doesn't. With Healing Touch at level 1 (Heals up to 25%), someone whose HP is at 1/100 will be healed to 25/100. Someone whose HP is at 13/100 will be healed to 25/100. Someone whose HP is at 24/100 will be healed to 25/100. It never heals anyone to more than the % given, and has no effect on anyone whose HP is currently higher than that %. And since it maxes out at 40%, yes, it's useless, because walking around with 40% of your max HP is an invitation to be wiped out, and any skill to heal your party past that would have done just as well without Healing Touch.

.... Oh.

That's horrible. :confused:

Well, time to max out TP Regen and flesh out the healing skills, I guess.

Daydreamer
12-16-2007, 11:56 AM
Well, you can't guarantee you'll be targetted, but unlike Parry, it's a passive. So you can use it and attack.

Opps my bad, I misread the question.

One question for all of you: Does anyone know what element Etreant's Cyclone is? I keep getting hit by a dispell/cyclone combo and killed, so I'm looking at throwing in some resist gear, but I don't know what I need to resist.

dwolfe
12-16-2007, 12:15 PM
.... Oh.

That's horrible. :confused:

Well, time to max out TP Regen and flesh out the healing skills, I guess.

TP Regen is amazing. Max it out, you won't regret it.

Daydreamer
12-16-2007, 01:38 PM
TP Regen is amazing. Max it out, you won't regret it.

Meh, I prefer to use relaxing from my troubadour myself. That way my smite happy Prot and my All-slash addled Land can join in on the fun.

Daydreamer
12-16-2007, 02:16 PM
One question for all of you: Does anyone know what element Etreant's Cyclone is? I keep getting hit by a dispell/cyclone combo and killed, so I'm looking at throwing in some resist gear, but I don't know what I need to resist.

Now here is an interesting fact. My first three attempted fights with Etreant, he always went before my Medic when he used Cyclone. Then I wandered around the dungeon slaughtering a couple of bosses for their rare drops - I did NOT level up - and the next fight against Etreant he ALWAYS went after my Medic, allowing me to beat him quite soundly. How does AGI work, I wonder? Its clearly a stat + random, but it seems almost as if its set at the start of each fight rather than at the start of each round, then modified for each round based on movement (e.g. abilities take the character's AGI value for that battle and subtract a small amount for that round to represent prep time, attacks take that value at face)

ScrambledGregs
12-16-2007, 08:04 PM
I am going to set a personal goal of beating this game before the sequel comes out.

It's nice to know I won't have to start a fresh game after learning lots of valuable lessons from my initial playing and the threads on this forum, since I can just make new characters and level 'em up.

I gave up when I got to the level where there's wolves roaming all over. B0F4. I think it's called. I knew I wasn't going to be able to dedicate the time to go further in the game, and then I entered my videogame apathy, and yeah...

Sprite
12-16-2007, 09:00 PM
Meh, I prefer to use relaxing from my troubadour myself. That way my smite happy Prot and my All-slash addled Land can join in on the fun.

Relaxing is my favorite skill. TP is precious, especially in difficult fights, and I want to have ALL OF IT as much as I can. I usually save my Troubador's Boosts for an easier fight so I can recharge pretty easily. Boosted Relaxing at Level 10 can often restore my caster's TP faster than they can use it.

If this skill isn't in EO2 I'm going to cry.

Daydreamer
12-17-2007, 12:40 AM
Relaxing is my favorite skill. TP is precious, especially in difficult fights, and I want to have ALL OF IT as much as I can. I usually save my Troubador's Boosts for an easier fight so I can recharge pretty easily. Boosted Relaxing at Level 10 can often restore my caster's TP faster than they can use it.

Speaking of which, I just lost against the Dragon because I ran out of TP - even with Relaxing, I couldn't keep up with all the dispels. First turn w/o Anti-volt and I get nailed for 4k damage to each party member. Ye-ouch.

And he had <10% health too...

Traumadore
12-17-2007, 08:13 PM
Provoke works well, I have it maxed out, and my protector nets more than half the attention in my three-man front row. Or take the fight with the Golem, where I noticed he goes for the back row first, and ignored provoke, but I put my protector back there and with rear guard I stopped the golem in his tracks.

Gobius
12-19-2007, 08:29 PM
I've been lurking this forum for a while, wanting to get into EO and living vicariously I guess. A small (Odin Sphere) series (Metroid Prime 3) of (Super Mario Galaxy) events (Umbrella Chronicles) got in the way however and I didn't break down and buy the game until last weekend. Well, I have to say that I am completely enjoying it. The last game of this type that I played was Wizardry 8, and Etrian Odyssey kind of takes the formula and refines, polishes, streamlines it, and delivers it through super convenient medium (the DS) so that it quite possibly should be made illegal for a certain breed of gamer.
My main adventuring group consists of a Protector, Landsknecht, Medic, Alchemist, and Survivalist. My Medic is on the front row with the two fighters and I've had pretty good success with this so far as he dishes out some descent damage up there. My party members are all around level 13 right now and I've explored most of BF3 and killed the first two Stalkers there without much trouble. So, I guess tonight I should be ready to move on to BF4. The game can be pretty challenging at times, but I find that it's usually when I haven't prepared or start rushing ahead further than I should. If I take my time to explore the levels and complete the side quests, the game flows pretty smoothly and I haven't felt much need to grind.
So far in the early levels, I've found the Alchemist's poison attacks to be very useful. Is this something that remains true throughout the game, or should I invest points into an elemental branch instead?
BTW, how many of you died on the poison butterflies on BF1 on your first play through? :) That's when I first learned to be more cautious and prepared before doing too much exploring - it was a quick and painful learning experience.

Sprite
12-19-2007, 11:45 PM
I've found the Alchemist's poison attacks to be very useful. Is this something that remains true throughout the game, or should I invest points into an elemental branch instead?


I don't have any experience with Poison, but either way you definitely need to invest in elements. Specialize in at least one, but I would suggest putting a decent amount into a second (you don't really need all three elements at a time). I picked Fire and Ice, myself, and I've never had any problems.

Mazian
12-19-2007, 11:50 PM
So far in the early levels, I've found the Alchemist's poison attacks to be very useful. Is this something that remains true throughout the game, or should I invest points into an elemental branch instead?
Apparently it tops out at 255 damage per round, which limits its utility deep down. I'm working through the second stratum and it's still great there. I'm building up poison and fire now, and once I reach a level where poison's no longer worthwhile, intend to take the 10-level hit and reset my Alchemist's skill points.

Daydreamer
12-20-2007, 01:20 AM
Apparently it tops out at 255 damage per round, which limits its utility deep down. I'm working through the second stratum and it's still great there. I'm building up poison and fire now, and once I reach a level where poison's no longer worthwhile, intend to take the 10-level hit and reset my Alchemist's skill points.

Do this. Though don't rush into the respec, because the 10-level hit is a steeper penalty than you might imagine. I'd recommend mid-fourth Strata, because thats about as far as you can take Poison (I was still using it for fire immune regular monsters), and because the 4th strata boss is the first one resistant to fire so its a good time to go Ice/something.

Gobius
12-20-2007, 05:48 AM
once I reach a level where poison's no longer worthwhile, intend to take the 10-level hit and reset my Alchemist's skill points.

Yea, that sounds like it might be the way to go. I've been using a bit of Fire too (BTW that has been working wonders on the wolves on BF4), but I might add lightning to that eventually. Poison is getting harder to land on FOEs, but maybe a few more points into it will fix that.

Gobius
12-27-2007, 10:17 AM
Just a bump for those still playing this.
I just cleaned out the 6th floor, and am moving on the 7th now (just got the Wyvern quest). Ahhh, damage tiles... just when I get comfortable, and think things are getting easier, the game throws a new twist.
Anyway, Fenrir turned out to be pretty easy once I found out that he will follow you. I think getting him away from the rest of the pack is pretty much a required strategy there.
So far, I've found out the following. I really love the Survivalist for FOE battles. Quicken is a must have, and the combination of Apollon and Trueshot lets him dish out more damage than anyone else. Hopefully, the Bows in the game will keep pace with the other weapons so he remains useful for a long time. Salve has also turned out to be a real life saver. I've started putting points into Defender on my Protector, but F/B Guard has worked better for me so far. I've also abandoned putting points into poison on my Alchemist and am now working on Fire and TP up skills (I still use Poison at the start of FOE battles, but if it misses, I just forget about it.)

ArugulaZ
12-27-2007, 10:26 AM
Wow, I am so far behind the rest of you. I'm still stuck at B3, trying to fight my way past that nasty Praying Mantis. I can sometimes sneak past him (he takes a rest every third turn) but I'd rather just get rid of him permanently. However, the only thing that seems to affect him is magic attacks, particularly Volt. Am I going to have to spend five hours creating and leveling up four Alchemists? If so... urrrgh.

Mazian
12-27-2007, 10:49 AM
I can sometimes sneak past him (he takes a rest every third turn) but I'd rather just get rid of him permanently.
Well, "permanently until he respawns in about a week of in-game time". You should be able to tackle him by the time you clear out B5. Sneaking past should be reliable, though - for the first one on the floor, go straight down from the stairs to the second-to-last square, then straight left to the door. The one in the next room only moves back and forth horizontally, so he's easier still to evade. There are two more in a small room in the upper left that you can breeze straight past... though getting back out might be trickier. Every other FOE on the floor is more manageable.

I've worked down to B10, and found that it was deeply satisfying to clean out the room with four Armoths in one pass. I feel like I'm finally getting good at this. Selling off the drops from all four has also done good things for my long-suffering bank account.

Coinspinner
12-27-2007, 11:04 AM
Just a bump for those still playing this.
I just cleaned out the 6th floor, and am moving on the 7th now (just got the Wyvern quest). Ahhh, damage tiles... just when I get comfortable, and think things are getting easier, the game throws a new twist.
Anyway, Fenrir turned out to be pretty easy once I found out that he will follow you. I think getting him away from the rest of the pack is pretty much a required strategy there.
So far, I've found out the following. I really love the Survivalist for FOE battles. Quicken is a must have, and the combination of Apollon and Trueshot lets him dish out more damage than anyone else. Hopefully, the Bows in the game will keep pace with the other weapons so he remains useful for a long time. Salve has also turned out to be a real life saver. I've started putting points into Defender on my Protector, but F/B Guard has worked better for me so far. I've also abandoned putting points into poison on my Alchemist and am now working on Fire and TP up skills (I still use Poison at the start of FOE battles, but if it misses, I just forget about it.)

Defender lasts 5 turns. You can use both!

q 3
12-27-2007, 11:08 AM
And in case you didn't know, you can press Y during combat to view whatever buffs/debuffs/ailments affect the current character. (And, of course, Y also functions as "sell all" in the shop! What a useful button!)

Brickroad
12-27-2007, 11:11 AM
I'm not playing this game right now, though I do pick it up every month or so and clear a floor (down to B19!).

Anyway, it makes me really really happy that this thread is still going strong. EO is an amazing game.

Gobius
12-27-2007, 11:22 AM
Defender lasts 5 turns. You can use both!

Right, I was aware of that, but unfortunately at this point it's not a replacement for using the guard skill (maybe I should just give up wanting to attack FOEs with my Protector :) ). I'm assuming that Defender stacks if I cast it multiple times though?

As far as the Stalkers go, I think I was level 14 or 15 when I killed them. The key for me was simply learning Cure II so that my Medic could keep up with the damage that they dished out. Even with that and having the Protector guard, I think I still lost one or two guys each battle. The item drop more than made up for it though! I never did kill the two up in the top left. Maybe I'll have to travel back there now that I'm leveled up a bit more and have a little prayer meeting with them (get it?? praying mantis'?? LOLZ).

Daydreamer
12-27-2007, 02:14 PM
Anyone have any tips for beating Wyvern in the 3-turn limit? With my standard PLTMA party at 65-67 I can do 7-7.5k in 3 turns, so I fall just short of my target. I'm leveling up a Ronin to temporarily replace my Medic for extra damage, but I was hoping someone could give me a tip so I wouldn't have to - even on F26+ I only get less than a level a fight once in the mid 20s and its tedious.

Egarwaen
12-27-2007, 03:00 PM
And in case you didn't know, you can press Y during combat to view whatever buffs/debuffs/ailments affect the current character.

... I didn't know that. I assumed that they were making you remember because it was more Old Skool, but that's great.

This has been temporarily bumped by Revenant Wings, but I'm probably going to be trading off between those two and Front Mission DS for the next few months. It really is a wonderful game.

SlimJimm
12-27-2007, 04:28 PM
So I just bought this game for my brother and of course I have to mooch off of him and play it.

Any tips for what not to do early on? What classes should I not use and such.

Coinspinner
12-27-2007, 04:32 PM
Anyone have any tips for beating Wyvern in the 3-turn limit? With my standard PLTMA party at 65-67 I can do 7-7.5k in 3 turns, so I fall just short of my target. I'm leveling up a Ronin to temporarily replace my Medic for extra damage, but I was hoping someone could give me a tip so I wouldn't have to - even on F26+ I only get less than a level a fight once in the mid 20s and its tedious.

I had P L D M A around that level and didn't even come close to winning. Replaced the alchemist with a low level Troubadour (she only had Bravery, but it was maxed.) Won handily. Dark Hunter does the least damage of the front line classes (No Ecstasy, because binds never land, ugh...) so any decently leveled fighter type should do.

Protip: Troubadour with Divinity, Relaxing and Healing. One other character. 3rd Strata. Let a treefrog call 3 allies, kill two, repeat until you've killed 30. Fastest exp there is I think.

Indalecio
12-27-2007, 04:50 PM
... I didn't know that. I assumed that they were making you remember because it was more Old Skool, but that's great.

This has been temporarily bumped by Revenant Wings, but I'm probably going to be trading off between those two and Front Mission DS for the next few months. It really is a wonderful game.

Sorry to go off-topic, but I just picked up Front Mission DS, and I've played the first couple of stages of it. Was wondering if there was an enough interest to start a thread on it.

Gobius
12-27-2007, 05:43 PM
Protip: Troubadour with Divinity, Relaxing and Healing. One other character. 3rd Strata. Let a treefrog call 3 allies, kill two, repeat until you've killed 30. Fastest exp there is I think.

Mmmm, I will have to remember that when I get there. This is one game that I don't feel guilty when taking advantage of any possible exploit. So far, I have only sent my Protector and Medic into the jungle a couple of times to level them up faster. I guess they better support my method of playing EO, which is SURVIVE LONGER rather than KILL FASTER.
It sounds like I'm going to have to look into one these Troubadour fellows at some point.

Egarwaen
12-27-2007, 05:48 PM
Mmmm, I will have to remember that when I get there. This is one game that I don't feel guilty when taking advantage of any possible exploit. So far, I have only sent my Protector and Medic into the jungle a couple of times to level them up faster. I guess they better support my method of playing EO, which is SURVIVE LONGER rather than KILL FASTER

I find that my Protector and Medic tend to level up faster anyway because they're always in my party. The rest of the characters tend to get rotated out as needed for fights, or when I want to play with something different, but those two are pretty much needed.

Edit: Also, I could dig a Front Mission DS thread.

q 3
12-27-2007, 06:21 PM
Anyone have any tips for beating Wyvern in the 3-turn limit?

If you aren't already doing so, try filling your characters' boost gauges before the battle; you're close enough already that a round of boosted attacks should be enough to win in three turns. The quickest way to fill them, short of using a bunch of Axcelas, would probably be to get into a random encounter and let the enemies beat up on your characters for a while, then hit the healing spring after.

Daydreamer
12-27-2007, 06:50 PM
Protip: Troubadour with Divinity, Relaxing and Healing. One other character. 3rd Strata. Let a treefrog call 3 allies, kill two, repeat until you've killed 30. Fastest exp there is I think.

I've got Div, Relaxing, but no healing. Though with a few medicas and a shelter that shouldn't be a problem. And at level 25 with ruby gear, my ronin should clean them up fairly easily. Why 30, BTW?

f you aren't already doing so, try filling your characters' boost gauges before the battle; you're close enough already that a round of boosted attacks should be enough to win in three turns. The quickest way to fill them, short of using a bunch of Axcelas, would probably be to get into a random encounter and let the enemies beat up on your characters for a while, then hit the healing spring after.

Yea, been using lots of axcelas on everyone but the medic. With a boosted L10 Bravery and first round boosted attacks I do the 7.5k instead of 6.5k.

Mazian
01-02-2008, 11:44 AM
Finished off the third stratum last night. The boss went down like a chump, especially after my DH got in three binds in the first four turns.

The item unlocked by his drop is an awfully nice looking bow (+220 ATK) that only costs, oh, four or five times as much money as I have. Are there any decent money making games down in the fourth stratum? Looks like it should be fantastic equipment to bring my lagging Troubadour up to speed.

Daydreamer
01-02-2008, 12:18 PM
The item unlocked by his drop is an awfully nice looking bow (+220 ATK) that only costs, oh, four or five times as much money as I have. Are there any decent money making games down in the fourth stratum? Looks like it should be fantastic equipment to bring my lagging Troubadour up to speed.

Alas no. The money doesn't really set in until late 5th strata/early 6th when item point drops start giving 600g per, FOEs start giving 5-10k per, and quest give as much as 100k. Honestly I'd keep buying regular gear instead - the first end game purchases you make should be the Land's special armor and a Duregar or two early in the 5th strata.

q 3
01-02-2008, 04:34 PM
The best money making spot in the entire game is on B21. Warp down, mine, warp back, sell, sleep, repeat. Megabucks in minutes.

sfried
01-02-2008, 05:15 PM
Is there any successful way to revive TP without the use of an Inn?

Egarwaen
01-02-2008, 05:51 PM
Is there any successful way to revive TP without the use of an Inn?

The Alchemist and Medic get the TP Regen passive skill, the Troubadour gets a song that boosts TP regen rates, there's an item that refills TP, and Healing Pools refill both TP and HP.

Basically, get TP Regen for your Alchemists and Medics as soon as you can spare the skill points.

sfried
01-02-2008, 05:58 PM
The Alchemist and Medic get the TP Regen passive skill, the Troubadour gets a song that boosts TP regen rates, there's an item that refills TP, and Healing Pools refill both TP and HP.

Basically, get TP Regen for your Alchemists and Medics as soon as you can spare the skill points.

I would've bought a alot of herbal meds since every visit to the Inn means a jack-up in the stay price. Now wonder I could find any "safe-zoning" in the game.

Mazian
01-02-2008, 06:21 PM
Inn price is based off of your characters' levels. (Specifically, the first three in your party lineup.)

The first in-dungeon healing pool is on B8, and you can get there very rapidly after finding the shortcuts on B6 and B7. However, to save money earlier on, there's the spring at the southeast corner of B1 that restores 10 TP/use at night. Abuse it early and often!

sfried
01-02-2008, 06:35 PM
However, to save money earlier on, there's the spring at the southeast corner of B1 that restores 10 TP/use at night. Abuse it early and often!

No wonder it was not doing anything. It was daytime when I tried to abuse it.

Gobius
01-03-2008, 06:19 AM
Well, I "unlocked" the healing well on B8 last night, retrieved the Wyvern egg, and started the quest that requires you to walk around on B8 for 5 days. zzzz. I wonder how many levels I'm going to gain out of this! My guys are all around level 28 right now... I don't know if that's over leveled or not, but I've been doing a lot of exploring. I got the Clear Key, and without spoiling too much, I want to say the multi-level hidden area in Stratum 1 was a really cool feature!
Honestly, once I got past the B3, money hasn't been an issue for me. I think putting at least one point into Chop, Take, and Mine on my main party's Survivalist was a good idea because each visit into the lower levels allows me to grab new items as soon as they're available.
This game just keeps on rocking!

spineshark
01-07-2008, 02:13 AM
I finally started on this game recently, and I've been fully impressed for every moment of it so far. Getting hooked on it was what finally really got me to buy my own DS instead of just using my brother's whenever it was available.

Anyway my guild is named "SEES" because I didn't want to sit around all day thinking of names. My main party right now is a Protector, Dark Hunter (whips), Alchemist (Ice), Alchemist (Lightning), and Medic. I switched to double Alchemist when I was trying to kill my first Ragelope; it feels a little less interesting and somewhat overpowering, but I don't have a big problem with it yet. Before that I'd tried Troubadour and Landsnecht in the fifth slot; the former was removed since she wasn't helping my low numbers enough (I guess) and the latter because I just preferred my Dark Hunter a bit more. I've also got a Survivalist wholly dedicated toward gathering stuff, as I was running into money issues when I tried to do some FOE hunting on B2. My frontliners both died during the first two, and I Warp Wired out as soon as the battles were over, meaning they each cost about 250 en to kill and didn't return much monetarily.

Things started off pretty slowly but B3 wasn't much of an issue at all; I was able to map the whole obvious area (I don't know where the hidden passages are...) in three trips (with a lot of help from the free regen, but still) and even got ambushed by the Kuyutha in that one corridor since I didn't think he'd follow me off to the side. I freaked out a little bit, not sure if he could chase me all the way to the dead end, and decided to just fight for it. It was pretty easy but I felt awesome anyway.

Thanks to the free regen I decided to stay on B3 for a good while until my inventory was overflowing and I had to start tossing Soft Hides. My entire party except the second (Lighting) Alchemist is at level 12 now, so I thought about going down to B4 for a couple battles, then wussed out after seeing FOEs patrolling everywhere. I hadn't saved in a couple hours so I decided it was time to quit. For the first time since the beginning of the game I have more than 1,000 en and the randoms on B3 are total cake...after the somewhat slow start I'm starting to feel powerful...so I'm sure the game is going to step on my face again really soon.

I do have one question though; does the Patch Up skill ever get really useful? I'm thinking of training a second medic who specializes in that for my grinding sessions, where the damage builds up slowly, while using my strong, direct healer to stake out new territory and fight big fights.

Egarwaen
01-07-2008, 08:58 AM
Patch Up would theoretically be good, if you didn't have to sink 10 points in it to get it to a reasonable level of healing. With 10 points, you can max out TP Plus, which unlocks TP Regen, which is much better for endurance than Patch Up.

Gobius
01-07-2008, 09:55 AM
The main problem with TP regen during grind sessions is that if you kill all of the enemies in the first round, you don't get any TP for that battle. And once you're in the second stratum, you really don't want the enemies last past the first round if possible. You'll get hit with Sleeper or I'm sure something worse the further down you go, and you'll end up spending a lot more TP on healing than you'll gain back. Patch Up is somewhat better since it happens after the battle and it's based on a percentage of each character's total health. So, it becomes more effective over time. Having said that, TP regen is obviously much more useful for long battles.

Anyhow, speaking of grinding, that's all I've been doing! I finally resolved to finish out the quest that requires you to stay in BF8 for 5 days. I got almost half way through it before but then my ADD kicked in and I decided to run off and finish some other quests and explore level 9. My party is all around level 31 now and my Landsnecht is really starting to kick butt now. I maxed out double-hit and for one period of time, it activated 6 attacks in a row :) My Survivalist with maxed out Apollon is an all out FOE destroyer too. First of all it does MASSIVE DAMAGE, but then it also ends up stunning the FOE most of the time. Also, a high level Defender skill on the protector is a thing of beauty. Right now I'm feeling pretty good about whipping the second stratum, but I'm sure the third one will make my adventurers feel like small children again.

Mazian
01-07-2008, 10:45 PM
Things started off pretty slowly but B3 wasn't much of an issue at all; I was able to map the whole obvious area (I don't know where the hidden passages are...)

Did you find the hidden passage between the second big room and the corridor below? That'll save you a fair amount of walking on every subsequent visit. Many levels have a few shortcuts of that sort, which can only be opened up after you explore around to the far side first.

There's a portion of the floor you won't be able to get to at all until quite a bit later - (incredibly tiny spoilers, but just in case) you need the key to open the locked doors with clear crystals you've seen occasionally, and you'll come up from below to get to it.

The FOEs on B4 aren't too tough individually, but they will try to gang up on you.

I used that same party almost exclusively as far as B17. My DH's bind skills saved my party in more than one boss fight. "BAD_GUY tried to use HORRIBLY_NASTY_SPELL, but its head is bound!" Muahaha.

spineshark
01-07-2008, 11:38 PM
Today was B4 day. I killed all the roaming wolves, taking a trip back up to the heal point after each one (aside from the last two, which I took down in just one go). They were really easy, nobody died although it helped that I was being a bit more defensive than usual.

Annoyingly the encounter rate went up when all the wolves were gone. Oh well. I started probing around B5 when I ran into a Warbull. After I killed it I realized I was running low on spells and decided to head up...and I didn't have a Warp Wire (I did get the Bull Spear first though, which is going to be so awesome). I had a few spare points on my Protector so I put one into Flee and used it the next battle, then panicked running up B4...and then there was B3. I'd never actually gotten back past the Stalker that blocks the narrow path there but I had no choice but to try. The first time he got me from the side, but I got away by having my front line guard and my back try to escape.

Once I got to B2 I knew I was free so I killed a couple of the Ragelopes which had respawned because they were there. I can almost one-shot one with boosted Thunder, or whatever the second Volt spell is called. Awesome. Tomorrow I'll...

Egarwaen
01-08-2008, 09:06 AM
Either make sure you have Warp Wires in pairs or get Warp on an Alchemist ASAP.

Gobius
01-08-2008, 09:08 AM
Annoyingly the encounter rate went up when all the wolves were gone.

From what I can tell, the bottom half of B4 is encounter free (watch the globe in the bottom right of the top screen), but the top half isn't.

Traumadore
01-08-2008, 01:46 PM
Guys I got stalled on B20. The boss just respawns when I kill it, so I think I have to kill all of the FOEs on the level, but I can only kill 5 or 6 before I start to run low on resources, and after a few runs the ones I killed the first time start to reappear! Am I approaching this right? My plan is to keep at it until I eventually hunt down each and everry FOE, but it is pretty slow progress.

I am thinking i'm just doing the wrong thing, because the fights themselves I can lock down pretty handily, but I don't know quite what to do.

Traumadore
01-08-2008, 02:15 PM
Rockin, now that I know I'm on the right track I am filled with righteous fury.

I usually go down for some murderin, warp back to 16, walk down to the well on 18, and repeat, I think I can do it in 3 more runs.

Sami
01-09-2008, 03:54 AM
The Japanese site has nice, big, clean samples of the job artwork.

http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/swordman01.html
http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/ranger01.html
http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/paladin01.html
http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/darkhunter01.html
http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/medic01.html
http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/bushido01.html
http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/alchemist01.html
http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/bard01.html
http://sekaiju.atlus.co.jp/chara/big/cursemaker01.html

Combined with that F.O.E. video, this is by far the most enjoyment I'm going to get out of the game.

I just started the game, and what I want to know - why are all the female characters lolis? You've mostly got these grown up warriors for the men... and tiny midgets with saucer eyes for the females. I know the adventurers are supposed to be beginners and young, but this is ridiculous. Now I've got a mostly male party with some girlish names (I was still being optimistic a few classes in). Just who are these Atlus games marketed to and why aren't there any grown up female PCs? Well, all right, there is a number of excessively young boy characters too, but it's less obvious. And the shopkeeper, eugh.

Egarwaen
01-09-2008, 09:13 AM
I just started the game, and what I want to know - why are all the female characters lolis? You've mostly got these grown up warriors for the men... and tiny midgets with saucer eyes for the females. I know the adventurers are supposed to be beginners and young, but this is ridiculous. Now I've got a mostly male party with some girlish names (I was still being optimistic a few classes in). Just who are these Atlus games marketed to and why aren't there any grown up female PCs? Well, all right, there is a number of excessively young boy characters too, but it's less obvious. And the shopkeeper, eugh.

Going through and doing a quick check, the breakdown's something like this:

Old, Male: Landsnecht 2, Protector 4, Medic 2, Ronin 4, Troubadour 2
Young, Male: Landsnecht 1, Ranger 3, Ranger 4, Protector 3, Dark Hunter 3, Dark Hunter 4, Medic 1, Ronin 3, Alchemist 3, Alchemist 4, Troubadour 1
Old, Female: Ranger 2, Dark Hunter 1, Medic 4, Alchemist 2
Young, Female: Landsnecht 3, Landsnecht 4, Ranger 1, Protector 1, Protector 2, Dark Hunter 2, Medic 3, Ronin 1, Ronin 2, Alchemist 1, Troubadour 3, Troubadour 4

Hexers... uh... Who can tell, really?

So that's 5 older male characters, 11 younger male, 4 older female, 12 younger female. I think the overall bias is just towards younger-looking characters.

Mazian
01-09-2008, 01:39 PM
Interesting. The 5th stratum isn't what I was expecting.

I still have some side quests to clean up above, though. There's one FOE on B18 that I can't catch - get close and it teleports to another corner of the map. What's up with that guy? Do I need to wait for a specific quest to open up first?

q 3
01-09-2008, 03:38 PM
There's one FOE on B18 that I can't catch

Be vewy vewy kwiet. That, and pay attention to where it teleports and when.

Or just go straight down to the healing spring, then straight right, and it should teleport right into you.

Coinspinner
01-09-2008, 04:09 PM
I briefly considered naming my guild teamLOLI or something similar.

spineshark
01-13-2008, 02:35 AM
Between the B4 wolves, and his name, I decided that using Ice on Fenrir was going to be rather worthless. So my first alchemist was temporarily suspended in favor of Friday the Landsnecht. I'm still a little unsure on the weapon choices; Axes seem stronger, but Swords have versatility in their favor. Either way, I'm going down the sword path for her, apparently.

Mapping out B5 was pretty easy, and when I got to Fenrir's little lair I killed the first Skoll and headed back to town. I decided to test the waters against the boss, which started okay but then the adds started coming in.

So obviously, I decided to kill them. Unfortunately this happened to not be possible for four of them, but when I was heading off I noticed something funny...Fenrir was charging at where I had been! Pulling him down the hall would buy me a few extra turns.

After that it was just a matter of keeping him gagged, defending and healing as necessary and having my Landsnecht and Lightning alchemist nail him as quickly as possible. The first Skoll was one space away from entering the battle, but I boosted on my Protector and downed him right there. 16P, 16D, 12L, 15A, 16M.

As the turns wore on in that battle, yet another thing that's so great about this game occurred to me. The tension is built not through fast action but through mechanically paced events (I actually remember reading something a developer wrote to this effect), as things move toward you, your resources run out in battle, etc. This game is better than I possibly imagined.

I spent a couple minutes on B6 and it's definitely the step up I've awaiting anxiously (the new music is awesome and the graphics change is also welcome). I'm kind of happy, but gaining ground is going to take some serious effort for a while again.

Dadgum Roi
01-13-2008, 12:24 PM
Am I going to have to create and level up an alchemist at some point? I was a couple of floors into the second stratum when I last played IIRC, and my party consists of a Landsknecht, Protector, Dark Hunter, Troubador and a Medic.

Mazian
01-13-2008, 12:32 PM
B6 may have been the toughest floor so far relative to the strength of my party at that time. Nothing like having your first FOE encounter on the floor wipe out four characters in one blow.

On the bright side, sometime in this stratum (especially if you accept a fairly time-intensive quest on B8), you'll be able to learn Revive for your Medic and Warp for your Alchemist. Saves tons of money and allows for longer exploring sessions.

Dadgum Roi
01-14-2008, 10:50 AM
As it turns out, I'd made it to the first floor of the 3rd stratum and Shelltor is kicking my ass, so I've gone ahead and made an alchemist. What's the trick with the treefrogs- I haven't yet seen them "call an ally" or whatever it is that they do that makes them great for leveling up.

Alex
01-14-2008, 12:32 PM
They will, you just have to give them time.

Eirikr
01-14-2008, 12:54 PM
Does this game make use of the L button in any important manner? I ask because like a few of you, my Lite's L button has leprosy. I really want to track down this game otherwise.

Daydreamer
01-14-2008, 01:21 PM
Does this game make use of the L button in any important manner? I ask because like a few of you, my Lite's L button has leprosy. I really want to track down this game otherwise.

L and R only cycle through the various floors of your map. Normally the map changes floors with you - and the game only lets you make marks on the floor you are currently on. A working R button on my roommate's DS was more troublesome than the broken one on my old Phat (before it got stolen).

Gobius
01-14-2008, 01:35 PM
Does this game make use of the L button in any important manner? I ask because like a few of you, my Lite's L button has leprosy. I really want to track down this game otherwise.

AFAIK, L and R are only used to switch between floor levels on the map screen. (PS I suggest Mario Kart to cure this)

Okay, I finally completed the "spend 5 days in the dungeon quest." Really, I don't know why I put myself through it (hint: OCD) because I already had two Hauberks and have so much moola stashed away that I could buy them with loose pocket change. That quest was enough to make me want to quit :) Having said that, with all the levels I gained, I'm mopping the floor with the second stratum and should be done with it very soon. Last night I ended up in a room where I was ambushed by an Armoth and two Moas all at once. With maxed out Defender they could hardly scratch anyone so I don't remember using more than one healing spell the entire battle. However, I am now waiting for the 3rd stratum to turn the tables around all over again.
As for going with Axes vs Swords with a Landsnecht FWIW, I've seen a lot better axes in the game so far than swords (obviously only being in the second stratum - it could change). I'm going pretty much all axe skills except for putting points in swords in order to get 2-hit. I do think that overall a sword wielder looks more versatile than an axe wielder, who is pretty much a straight up physical damage dealer. But, oh does he deal the damage!

Traumadore
01-14-2008, 01:55 PM
The elemental sword skills will triple the damage of your alchemists attacks.

Daydreamer
01-14-2008, 04:18 PM
The elemental sword skills will triple the damage of your alchemists attacks.

And with a Duregar and Boost you can deal 2k damage with them. I <3 elemental slashes.

Dadgum Roi
01-16-2008, 07:16 PM
Royal Ant just lost my vote for President.

You suck, Mr. Royal Ant.

Daydreamer
01-16-2008, 11:44 PM
Yea, I never liked her either. Was it her vote for the war? That whole destroy-all-humans thing is so very 2002. Or do you think she'd turn the entire region into one giant commune?

Still making a katana out of her lower jaw was a great experience.

Gobius
01-17-2008, 11:07 AM
Well, I confirmed that the golem boss is indeed one tough mutha.

Guess I will stick to conquering the 3rd stratum for now!

Dadgum Roi
01-17-2008, 11:13 AM
I had to register a second landsknecht to get past Royal Ant. My old landsknecht that I've been using from the start isn't configured *quite* like he ought to be, and given that I'd retired my troubadour in lieu of an alchemist recently, along with dumping another landsknecht up front in place of a protector which I can't get skilled right, my party was hurting.

I figured a more offensively oriented party might work, so I went with two landsknechts up front plus a dark hunter, and a medic and alchemist in the rear. I won, but the alchemist and the new landsknecht both bought the farm. And now I have apparently failed to map some minor corner of B11, so I can't even report back to the Radha yet.

Gobius
01-17-2008, 11:25 AM
Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to level your new landsknecht to a useful level? My party has a heavy reliance on physical damage, other than my alchemist, and I can see that giving me trouble in the coming levels. So, I might need to start a new character as well.

Dadgum Roi
01-17-2008, 11:33 AM
Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to level your new landsknecht to a useful level?


A half hour to forty five minutes. I went down to B11 and did the treefrog grind for fifty turns or so, then did that again. He shot up to level 12 or 13 after the first grind alone. I put all of his points into offensive skills- maxed out Crush, put the rest in Axes IIRC. He was around level 20 when I won the Royal Ant fight, doing around 150dmg per turn using Crush, which I think was about 50-75dmg less than what my older Landsknecht was doing. His HP is skimpy and he died before the fight was over, but he lasted long enough to make a difference. Once I beef up his HP some, he'll likely be more effective than my older Landsknecht who has 20 levels more.

What I really need is a Protector skilling guide. I've put points into several different skills and none of them seem to work with any sort of consistency.

Egarwaen
01-17-2008, 11:41 AM
What I really need is a Protector skilling guide. I've put points into several different skills and none of them seem to work with any sort of consistency.

Protector and Medic. They seem to be the two hardest classes to skill, as not only are they often-vital support roles, but they've got a few skills that are totally worthless. Something explaining what's good/bad and why would be wonderful.

I know that F. Guard, B. Guard, and Defender are great on the Protector (though Defender's less sexy if you've got a Troubadour along), and the elemental skills at exactly level 5 (so they negate attacks entirely), but beyond that...

Dadgum Roi
01-17-2008, 11:46 AM
Protector and Medic. They seem to be the two hardest classes to skill, as not only are they often-vital support roles, but they've got a few skills that are totally worthless. Something explaining what's good/bad and why would be wonderful.

I haven't had any trouble with Medic. What do they do besides healing and removing status ailments. None of the healing skills are fundamentally different, they just heal different amounts and, in the case of Salve, for multiple party members.


I know that F. Guard, B. Guard, and Defender are great on the Protector (though Defender's less sexy if you've got a Troubadour along), and the elemental skills at exactly level 5 (so they negate attacks entirely), but beyond that...

I don't get Front and Back Guard. Sometimes it'll activate, and I'll hear the clash of swords sound effect, but the targetted character will still take damage instead of it going to the Protector character. Is the skill reducing the amount of damage taken?

Parry is weird too- does it only work if the Protector is directly targeted?

q 3
01-17-2008, 12:08 PM
F Guard and B Guard only affect the first physical attack in that row on that turn (though an attack-all attack, e.g. Rush, gets reduced for the entire line). They do nothing but reduce damage; by around 30% at level 5 and around 40% at level 10. Parry only helps the Protector and only for that turn. Defender is better than Shelter 99% of the time (reducing damage taken versus increasing defense stat).

My advice? For now, work on maxing Defender. If you find you like F and/or B Guard a lot, get them to level 5. After that, probably the next most useful thing for a Protector (until you clear B25) is Smite.

Mazian
01-17-2008, 12:45 PM
The only time I've actually used the F.Guard/B.Guard skills was, appropriately enough, the Golem fight. (After he pulped my party the first time.) Shunting the Protector into the rear row and using B.Guard every round did wonders to keep the rest of that row alive. Hasn't come in useful since.

Defender is nice but only lasts a few (5?) turns.

The skill I'm using most in FOE battles is Smite. It lives up to its name! Even at level 1, it's powerful. Other than that, dumping points into HP Up/Def Up makes him really hard to kill, and that seems to be more useful than anything else around. It would take too many points into Cure to be worthwhile as a backup Medic, Provoke isn't very effective (which also reduces the utility of Parry), Aegis seems less generally useful than HP/Def bonuses....

I'm thinking about resting my Medic so I can reassign points away from the lower-level healing spells that are no longer worthwhile, but it's not a real problem yet. Maybe when I finally reach the post-game stratum.

Egarwaen
01-17-2008, 01:05 PM
I haven't had any trouble with Medic. What do they do besides healing and removing status ailments. None of the healing skills are fundamentally different, they just heal different amounts and, in the case of Salve, for multiple party members.

Patch Up and the other %-based healing skill are really, really bad.

I don't get Front and Back Guard. Sometimes it'll activate, and I'll hear the clash of swords sound effect, but the targetted character will still take damage instead of it going to the Protector character. Is the skill reducing the amount of damage taken?

Yeah, I think so.

Parry is weird too- does it only work if the Protector is directly targeted?

There's a better version that works passively, so you don't have to waste a turn triggering it.

Gobius
01-17-2008, 01:17 PM
My favorite part about that mission is, you know those soldiers you talked to who gave you partial maps? Yeah, those maps are kinda wrong.

Actually, what really annoyed me about that was that they drew their map lines slightly differently than I do, and their maps overwrote stuff I'd already mapped. So, I had to go back and "fix" that too.
OCD much? LOL

Dadgum Roi
01-17-2008, 01:33 PM
My favorite part about that mission is, you know those soldiers you talked to who gave you partial maps? Yeah, those maps are kinda wrong.

I thought I'd found all of the errors... Now I've got to stomp all around B11 trying to find where I screwed up. Actually, I'll probably just grab a screenshot from Gamefaqs, but still, pain in the ass.

Daydreamer
01-17-2008, 02:09 PM
My favorite part about that mission is, you know those soldiers you talked to who gave you partial maps? Yeah, those maps are kinda wrong.

Never trust a soldier to do a violent, mismatched mercenary company's job.

sfried
01-18-2008, 09:10 PM
Where are the B3F heal points again?

Mazian
01-18-2008, 09:15 PM
Where are the B3F heal points again?
The center 3x3 room near the lower left (F2), but only until you beat Fenrir.

sfried
01-18-2008, 11:00 PM
The center 3x3 room near the lower left (F2), but only until you beat Fenrir.

Oh man...and the FOEs just started respawning.

I wish I could kill those Stalkers, though. I heard alchemists are good, but how well does one landsknecht, a protector, and a survivalist as backup fair against it? (I have LV2 Crush, LV1 Multishot, and LV2 Frontguard)

DeeMer
01-20-2008, 07:47 PM
Here's what I don't quite get, though (correct me if I'm mistaken about anything, it's been a few months): Isn't the Chief actually Yggdrasil? What did he have to gain by ordering you to exploit the Labyrinth and eliminate himself and the Forest Folk? Isn't that flagrantly against his goal? Was he so caught up in tourism revenues that he'd blow his mission?

sfried
01-20-2008, 09:21 PM
Uh...I'm too scared to fight Fenrir, especially with the pack of FOEs around. And I haven't even found pyroxyne yet.

Are there any more secrets in BF3? And what's the small opening that I can't squeeze through in BF1 for?

(And yes, I read the spoilers since I got spoiled by a certain last boss ending on Youtube. But I quit reading once it started mentiong stuff prior to the last boss...So please, no (more) plot spoilers for me. Although I still don't know how the heck they could still manage to make a story for the sequel...)

Mazian
01-20-2008, 10:14 PM
Uh...I'm too scared to fight Fenrir, especially with the pack of FOEs around. And I haven't even found pyroxyne yet.
For the latter, mine on B4/B5. For the former... have you noticed that once you get close, he'll follow you?

And what's the small opening that I can't squeeze through in BF1 for?
Which one? There's a shortcut that you can only open from the east side near one of the Chop points, but which is then usable in both directions once you do (a setup you'll be seeing again and again). There's also one point in the east corridor that you won't be able to pass through until hitting the second stratum.

sfried
01-20-2008, 10:22 PM
There's also one point in the east corridor that you won't be able to pass through until hitting the second stratum.

I see.

As far as Fenrir...Urgh! I haven't even clreaded out the Stalkers, but I have a hard time trying to know which FOEs are wolves (and hopefully they should be easier to kill than Stalkers).

Mazian
01-20-2008, 10:31 PM
The FOE blobs on the upper screen have a very rough color-coding for difficulty - orange for less nasty enemies, red for more difficult, and black for bosses. If I recall correctly, Stalkers show up as red, and Wolves definitely show up as orange... though there are another few FOE types on those floors you'll need to deal with as well.

(Another way to look at it is, "you don't need to kill any Stalkers, and they're only on the first half of B3 anyhow".)

sfried
01-20-2008, 10:48 PM
The FOE blobs on the upper screen have a very rough color-coding for difficulty - orange for less nasty enemies, red for more difficult, and black for bosses. If I recall correctly, Stalkers show up as red, and Wolves definitely show up as orange... though there are another few FOE types on those floors you'll need to deal with as well.

(Another way to look at it is, "you don't need to kill any Stalkers, and they're only on the first half of B3 anyhow".)

I see. That's good to know. I thought I to do more grinding sessions again with the respawning FOEs. Looks like I can clear them out before Fenrir.

I was just scared because I walked into a narrow corridor and 2 FOEs approached me on the side. At least now I'm certain they're wolves and not Stalkers.

Octopus Prime
01-26-2008, 08:36 AM
I've been to the 4th Strata now. And I decided to go back and see if I could beat the Wyvern.

Turns out I can, but its really, really hard and I didn't get ANYTHING for beating her. Seriously, not even a single experience point. Just a sense of self satisfaction.

Now I'm going to see if its possible to beat that dang Golem.