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View Full Version : Final Fantasy XII or, evil wall pwns joo!


thomp538
06-19-2007, 05:27 PM
So I'm playing FF12 and in the tomb of raithwall and I encounter the first evil wall. Run from it, I get to the next room and theres another one, so I pull off a triple mist attack, I only have one per character right now, and I manage to defeat the thing. So I proceed to go back to the first room. I go up to the save crystal, renew my stats and proceed to go back down, this time I am going to kill that first evil wall. Well three times now and no dice, what am I doing wrong?

Plus, is there a special technique to chain more than 3 mist attacks? I have pulled off as many as 5, but I don't know if I know what I am doing. after 3 it says "press r2 to toggle", which I do. Sometimes this seems to do nothing and sometimes it puts a button icon next to a character and I can pull off another chain.

Savathun
06-19-2007, 05:30 PM
I just came back much later when I was higher level to kill the first evil wall. Sorta like how you come back much later in FF7 to kill Midgardsorm.

And you might have to hold down R2 for a bit longer. It's always a crapshoot with that sort of thing.

Parish
06-19-2007, 05:31 PM
That first wall is much more durable than the one you beat. If you're reeeeeally lucky you can chain Mist attacks, but you're better off going back later when you've beefed up a bit.

Chaining is pretty hit-or-miss. Sometimes you'll get lucky and the mist cartridges will recharge perfectly, sometimes you're screwed. The more mist cartridges your characters have the easier it is to keep the chain going, of course.

poetfox
06-19-2007, 05:32 PM
Basically, you have to look for a move called "Mist Charge," which refills their MP for another attack. If you see a Mist Charge, you need to prioritize hitting that one first. Other than that, though, it's really just random as to what the comptuer gives you to hit, and if you don't have the MP for the moves it lists, you just have to shuffle them again and hope it gives you them this time. It does get a lot easier to get higher chains once you have all three levels, though, since you have more meters, and can try to just do the level 1 moves over and over, as well as the charges giving you three meters back.
Also, I'm sure there are many people who are more knowledgable about FFXII here than I am.
Also, now I feel like a badass since I beat the wall on my first try... then again, I did sort of grind out all three mist levels before I fought said wall.

thomp538
06-19-2007, 05:37 PM
yes, I am sure I could take him out with all three mist levels. ;) As it is I can take about 1/4 of his HP away with just the 3 mist attacks chained. I think I'll just avoid him for now.

Peach
06-19-2007, 05:46 PM
Take this with a grain of salt, since I'm way over-leveled, but I assembled a team of melee fighters and cast berserk on all of them. Same way I beat the Wild Saurian...

djSyndrome
06-19-2007, 06:26 PM
Seriously, mist charges suck. Man up and buy a sword.

Sarcasmorator
06-19-2007, 06:58 PM
I killed Bergan (and half a dozen other bosses) with a single Mist chain. If I ever go through the game again, I might not use them — a lucky move can totally break the difficulty.

sraymonds
06-19-2007, 07:15 PM
Are these evil walls near the beginning? Because I stopped playing the first time you meet evil walls, and I haven't wanted to go back since.

Kolbe
06-19-2007, 07:23 PM
Mist quickenings and Summons suck. In the first one, as said before, is a hit-or-miss deal. The second just don't do anything but die.

The best way to level up is to just enjoy the game. Play with the gambit system and clear all maps by yourself (don't buy them). Just have plain fun with it, and no one will stand in your way.

Coinspinner
06-19-2007, 07:27 PM
I didn't buy any Mist thingies until really late in the game. I think I used them in earnest maybe three times. I went through most of the game with a single MP bar, heh.

Savathun
06-19-2007, 07:55 PM
Are these evil walls near the beginning? Because I stopped playing the first time you meet evil walls, and I haven't wanted to go back since.

Yeah, it's pretty close to the beginning.

And yeah, misting gets old. It's a lot more fun and satisfying to see your gambits and careful planning pay off in a fight. Save the mists for the damned hell dragon bastards at the very end, who have millions of HP. It doesn't necessarily make it any faster or easier, it's just nice if you're feeling impatient.

sraymonds
06-19-2007, 07:59 PM
Oh, I feel awkward now, because I don't even know what mists are.

Coinspinner
06-19-2007, 09:16 PM
Basically limit breaks that eat a big chunk of MP (or all of it.) Using just one does nothing though... you need to chain several together to deal damage, the more the better. Each character has 3, and starting with your second learning one doubles or triples your max MP.

thomp538
06-19-2007, 10:38 PM
I don't know what you are talking about, mists are a godsend for pretty much every boss I have faced since I have aquired them.

JCDenton
06-20-2007, 12:04 AM
While quickening chains are somewhat hit-or-miss, I found them to be quite a lot of fun. There was nothing better than having the tide of battle gradually turn against me and then managing to start one at just the right moment. Then the massive, screen-filling effects come accompanied by the amazing boss battle theme and I fall in love all over again. Yeah, I'm a sucker for that kind of thing. *hangs head*

shivam
06-20-2007, 12:45 AM
i cant figure out how to use them. of course, i havent played since like fall.

Peach
06-20-2007, 12:50 AM
I just used quickenings, when I first licensed them, to grind powerful monsters. Had I been a little more lucky or patient, Fran would be running around with a Kotetsu half a game before you're supposed to get one, courtesy of pair of Werewolf rabble-rousers.

Vahn16
06-20-2007, 03:03 AM
Mist chaining the wall is hit-or-miss. I failed a couple of times, but just kept at it and succeeded eventually. I'm not very far past that point in the game, but I can see how mist attacks could kill the difficulty. It's either kill a tough boss with some brilliant strategy, or luck out on a mist chain. Chains are fun to pull-off, but I don't plan on using them unless it saves me from having to grind for a couple of hours.

Lakupo
06-20-2007, 03:18 AM
I never found Quickenings to be all that useful... when I really needed them against a higher level enemy, they took off only 1/8th or a 1/4 of their HP, even with a 5 or 6 chain. And when they finally did damage, I could usually take on that enemy pretty easily without Quickenings. I usually left them for last ditch efforts to take off the last chunk of HP.

As for the first wall, I think I was slightly above average, probably a few levels above Vossler, and while Quickenings didn't help me much against it, but I cast Berserk on Vossler and my axe-weilding tank Basch, and just really hoped for the best. Maybe a few spells for extra measure, but I probably had the other two heal and keep up barriers. If things get desperate, Berserk the rest. Berserk's the real powerhouse spell in the game... it not only boosts attack power, but attack speed (add haste on top and holy crap), and that can make all of the difference right there.

Vahn16
06-20-2007, 03:48 AM
Yeah, I've read good things about Berserk. Should I put it up at the top of my caster's gambits? The objective would be to have my melee character Berserked for most battles, of course.

Lakupo
06-20-2007, 03:59 AM
Enh, something like Berserk, just cast it manually, unless you know you're going to use it constantly for a boss. You're not going to need it all the time, just the tough fights like bosses and marks. Heh, my original plan was to have my tanks (Basch/Ashe) cast it on themselves, but without magical armor, their magick power was too low and magick defense too high for it to stick.

Peach
06-20-2007, 08:11 AM
Bubble is also pretty damn good, especially in conjunction with Decoy.

You know, I'm going to go out on a limb and say FFXII isn't very well balanced.

TheSL
06-20-2007, 08:33 AM
Mists pretty much break the first 1/2~2/3 of the game's boss battles- a chain or two of them knocks most of them out easily. This doesn't work out that well in many of the higher level hunts though...

Swordian
06-20-2007, 09:29 AM
I never found Quickenings to be all that useful... when I really needed them against a higher level enemy, they took off only 1/8th or a 1/4 of their HP, even with a 5 or 6 chain.

Well, a 5 or 6 chain isn't very much. Hitting a boss with a 12+ chain is very satisfying. I think my favorite use of this was defeating the Bomb King fairly early in the game by finishing him off with a Quickening Chain before he could refill his HP.

Crazy Larry
06-20-2007, 09:44 AM
Chain Quickenings can be very powerful once all of your characters have two or three of them. I went through about the first half of the game not using them at all, and then beat almost all of the remaining story bosses at the start of the battle using just quickenings.

Parish
06-20-2007, 11:04 AM
I mostly keep my Quickenings in reserve for optional bosses and marks who flip the hell out once you get them to critical HP. The ones that double their defense and offense and magic and cast haste and protect and shell on themselves -- they're usually tough fights to begin with, and when they upgrade themselves can make a long, drawn-out battle end very quickly and unhappily. I consider them insurance.

Besides, it's not a good idea to rely on Quickenings as a staple of battle. Not only does a one-shot battle suck the fun from the game, a miscalculated chain leaves you facing a very pissed-off boss without a single MP to your name.

Coinspinner
06-20-2007, 12:35 PM
You could switch to your other three characters too. Well I could anyway, I used everyone equally.

Vahn16
06-20-2007, 01:57 PM
That's what I'm doing at this point, although it's going to make the game take forever. With as something as excellent as FFXII, however, I think I'm ok with that.

thomp538
06-20-2007, 02:05 PM
Philosophically as a Final Fantasy player, I have more approached the games as a story that you get to take part in. Not that I don't derive enjoyment from the systems and gameplay, but to me they have always been secondary to progression through the game. If this makes me an awful person, then so be it :p

I also am kind of neglecting my other characters right now in favor of Vaan, Balthier and Ashe. I probably don't have my gambits configured as well as I could and I probably have wasted a lot of LP on the licence board, but I make up for this with constant grinding. Which for some reason I have no problem with, but probably because it allows me to keep progressing through the game. So basically what I lack in skill and strategy I make up for in constant tenacity, which is probably why I have been stuck in the middle of Final Fantasy Tactics for almost 10 years.

poetfox
06-20-2007, 02:34 PM
Besides, it's not a good idea to rely on Quickenings as a staple of battle. Not only does a one-shot battle suck the fun from the game, a miscalculated chain leaves you facing a very pissed-off boss without a single MP to your name.
Just want to say I COMPLETELY AGREE. Because I leaned on them, and then sort of lost interest after I was killing every boss with "Secondary party, GO! Quickening! Main party, in... fight a little... Quickening! And done." I tried to wean myself off of it, but I'd get all death-ful and get frustrated and do it that way anyway... so just... maybe don't use them from the get-go.

Calorie Mate
06-20-2007, 03:19 PM
I thought the point of most bosses changing up their attacks after they have less than half their remaining HP sort of indicated that you should hack away at the at first, and then finish off the remaining 1/4 or so of HP with Quickenings.

Coinspinner
06-20-2007, 03:25 PM
Of the few times I actually tried that I only remember it working once. The rest of the time it was "shit, he's still pissed and now I have no MP... quickenings suck!"

BTW anyone know if "Quickening" was just a random change in the translation or if it's a deliberate reference to the FFT tactic?

Psyael
06-20-2007, 03:52 PM
Sigh, I've got two games in my pile before I can play FFXII, and I'm only partway through one, and this progression is often distracted by rentals and other activities.

I hope I get a chance to play it before I'm 30.

gamin
06-20-2007, 04:34 PM
BTW anyone know if "Quickening" was just a random change in the translation or if it's a deliberate reference to the FFT tactic?

I think it was called "Mist Knack" in the Japanese version. What would the reference to FF Tactics be?

Parish
06-20-2007, 04:42 PM
You could switch to your other three characters too. Well I could anyway, I used everyone equally.
Unless you're up against one of the many bosses with area effect abilities. Targeted characters can't be swapped.

Coinspinner
06-20-2007, 06:26 PM
I think it was called "Mist Knack" in the Japanese version. What would the reference to FF Tactics be?

There's various tricks in FFT involving Quick status where you can effectively gain infinite turns. They're collectively known as "the Quickening" on GameFAQs and other places with active FFT communities.

Unless you're up against one of the many bosses with area effect abilities. Targeted characters can't be swapped.
Unless the first party where to die. I'm pretty sure it prompts you to change then.

shivam
06-20-2007, 09:00 PM
how do you do this quick thing?

thomp538
06-20-2007, 09:32 PM
how do you do this quick thing?
you need to acquire quickenings on the license board, they are on the edges

gamin
06-20-2007, 09:38 PM
It's very much in your interest to get as many quickenings as quickly as possible, as it doubles and triples your max mp as well.

Parish
06-20-2007, 09:52 PM
Unless the first party where to die. I'm pretty sure it prompts you to change then.
Well, yeah, but dead characters = no experience, which sort of defeats the purpose.

alexb
06-21-2007, 01:40 AM
I didn't think you got XP for bosses.

aceface
06-21-2007, 06:39 AM
Well, yeah, but dead characters = no experience, which sort of defeats the purpose.

Bosses don't give any experience anyways...right? I levelled my 6 characters equally up to 40 and it really helped for some bosses- if someone's MP was drained or someone died I could switch out to another character and not miss a beat.

TheSL
06-21-2007, 07:19 AM
I'm pretty sure the bosses still gave points for the License Board, though, which was more beneficial to me than Exp.