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openedsource
06-20-2007, 12:02 PM
Konami today announced Contra 4 (working title) for the Nintendo DS, a direct follow-up to 1992's Contra III: The Alien Wars. Developed by Wayforward Technologies (Ping Pals), the latest entry in the 20-year-old franchise will introduce new gameplay mechanics, including a grappling hook that will allow players to venture upwards within the dual-screened environments.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160425

I do like how Contra 4 is a "working title". Perhaps they'll rename it to Contra IV before it ships?

Though I also appreciated how Wayforward's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WayForward_Technologies) notable title relevant to the story is Ping Pals. To be fair, they have produced some decent licensed titles. They're like the Acclaim of this generation.

Balrog
06-20-2007, 12:04 PM
You had me at grappling hook.

Jeanie
06-20-2007, 12:10 PM
Contra + Bionic Commando = WIN, at least on paper. We'll see when it's playable, but for now... WOOOHOOO!!!

JCDenton
06-20-2007, 12:16 PM
Hopefully good news. I do love me some grappling hook.

cartman414
06-20-2007, 01:55 PM
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160425

I do like how Contra 4 is a "working title". Perhaps they'll rename it to Contra IV before it ships?

Though I also appreciated how Wayforward's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WayForward_Technologies) notable title relevant to the story is Ping Pals. To be fair, they have produced some decent licensed titles. They're like the Acclaim of this generation.

* in before Parish quips about you deserving a ban for not mentioning Shantae *

Jakanden
06-20-2007, 01:56 PM
I like Contra and Bionic Commando and I am therefore interested in this (at least until a playable form comes out).

* in before Parish quips about you deserving a ban for not mentioning Shantae *

I have never heard of Shantae, but please keep the ban-hand away!

Vahn16
06-20-2007, 01:59 PM
Reserving judgment until someone gets some hands-on with it. The stigma of Ping Pals is just too strong.

alexb
06-20-2007, 02:00 PM
Maybe Shantae was a fluke? Their non-Shantae output looks rather terrible. Wasn't Ping Pals that launch "game" for the DS that was nothing more than a chat room with ugly avatars?

ShakeWell
06-20-2007, 02:01 PM
Don't know much about WayForward, but I can't see Konami handing Contra of all things over to a bunch of fuckups. At least... I really wouldn't WANT to see them do that...

I'm stoked either way.

alexb
06-20-2007, 02:06 PM
Hello? Appaloosa? C: The Contra Adventure? Contra: Legacy of War?

regularchickens
06-20-2007, 02:07 PM
Contra + Bionic Commando =
Turrican!

I'm not sure if I'd trust WayForward with a Contra game, but it'll be interesting to see how this turns out. At the very least, it'll have some very pretty art.

Calorie Mate
06-20-2007, 03:13 PM
I'm sure Konami's keeping a watchful eye on it...they'd better, since they have to have seen people complaining about outsourcing the development to another company.

And might I remind everyone that the last time KONAMI made a good Contra was...what, 15 years ago now? I can't say I'd exactly trust them to do it in-house, either.

...but again, we'll wait and see how this turns out. In the mean time, my official response shall be: "Grappling hook? FUCK YES."

alexb
06-20-2007, 03:29 PM
Speaking of Konami and outside developers... 6 weeks or so till showtime, Tomm.

Red Hedgehog
06-20-2007, 04:09 PM
Um, yay? I don't know, I really want this to be godd, but something tells me not to get my expectations too high.

And wikipedia tells me that Konami developed Contra: Shattered Soldier and that was good.

Parish
06-20-2007, 04:40 PM
Wayforward has developed many more games than you realize, mostly licensed titles which are of much better quality than you'd expect.

And to be fair, my understanding is that Ping Pals was developed in pretty much no time at all, before Nintendo had actually mentioned the fact that, oh yeah, Pictochat is included for free.

Tomm Guycot
06-20-2007, 04:42 PM
Speaking of Konami and outside developers... 6 weeks or so till showtime, Tomm.

What the hell are you talking about?

alexb
06-20-2007, 04:47 PM
A reference back to a distant time when we were talking about Silent Hill Origins. Which is a Konami game being developed by an outside team. And it's my understanding that the game comes out in early August. Hence my comment.

And to be fair, my understanding is that Ping Pals was developed in pretty much no time at all, before Nintendo had actually mentioned the fact that, oh yeah, Pictochat is included for free.

Okay, but I'm not sure how pointing out that it was a slapped together cash-in that they didn't have the decency to shelve when it became obvious it was redundant is helping their case. I kid, I kid. I really do hope they pull it off. But Sigma Star Saga wasn't exactly Gradius. Or Darius, even. Best of luck to them, but I'll have to wait for the reviews.

Parish
06-20-2007, 05:37 PM
Okay, but I'm not sure how pointing out that it was a slapped together cash-in that they didn't have the decency to shelve when it became obvious it was redundant is helping their case.
You're mixing up the roles of developers and publishers again.

alexb
06-20-2007, 06:32 PM
Fair point. Ubisoft or somebody published it, not them, right? For some reason, I thought they put it out themselves. It still doesn't excuse the poor quality of the product, but its introduction to the market wasn't really their call.

ArugulaZ
06-20-2007, 07:05 PM
Turrican!

Mega Turrican, to be precise!

JR

Sarcasmorator
06-20-2007, 07:14 PM
I miss my Amiga copy of Turrican SO MUCH.

LBD_Nytetrayn
06-20-2007, 07:17 PM
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160425

I do like how Contra 4 is a "working title". Perhaps they'll rename it to Contra IV before it ships?

That's an interesting one. They place this just after Contra III, the last numeric Contra in the franchise, but with that, there have been many sequels already, some canon, some not (guess which).

I don't see it keeping a numeric title, though.

And what's with this 1up piece?

Set two years after The Alien Wars, Contra 4 finds Bill Rizer and Lance Bean facing the Black Viper, a menacing new alien force. Scorpion and Mad Dog also return for the fragfest, and the use of both screens will allow massive boss battles to be fought above the ground.

...so Scorpion and Mad Dog are joining themselves? Is this going to involve time travel? Am I going to have to nuke a Flux Capacitor here? 'Cause I'll do it.

Thank God it's for DS, tho. Wait... I own a PSP, too.

Still. I get a feeling the numbers it'd turn in would be better for DS, hardware-quality debates be damned.

This grappling hook thing sounds interesting as well. Hope it works.

Huh, and when Nadia first told me earlier about this, I was thinking it'd just be Contra with touch-screen shooting. I'd be sorta cool with that, too.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

ShakeWell
06-20-2007, 08:03 PM
Hello? Appaloosa? C: The Contra Adventure? Contra: Legacy of War?

I had, until just now, successfully erased those games from my memory. And I briefly (very briefly, less than 24 hours) owned a copy of Legacy of War.

Thanks for reminding me, JERK. Now I'm all depressed.

alexb
06-20-2007, 08:26 PM
My apologies, but it was something you needed to remember. Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it. May WayForward remember it as well.

chocogaz
06-20-2007, 08:56 PM
I was a big fan of Shante and Sigma Star Saga. I have faith that WayFoward won't phone this one home.

Andrew
06-20-2007, 09:28 PM
WayForward made more good games than Shantae--Wendy: Every Witch Way and Xtreme Sports are also very good. Most of their other stuff I haven't played, but their platformers typically run on the Shantae engine, thus should be at least solid mechanically.

Sigma Star Saga was plagued by huge design issues, though. Considering it seemed to be a labor of love its relatively poor quality disheartened me.

I'm hoping they prove everyone wrong and that Konami considers publishing Shantae Advance in some fashion.

ShakeWell
06-21-2007, 03:34 PM
My apologies, but it was something you needed to remember. Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it. May WayForward remember it as well.

Agreed. You're still a jerk for making me remember those horrible games. But I appreciate your jerkiness.

LBD_Nytetrayn
06-21-2007, 06:28 PM
Hmm, my mistake in blaming 1up for the name mess-up, seems that was in Konami's press release.

Which arguably makes it all the worse, but then...

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

Kishi
06-28-2007, 01:18 PM
"Contra IV" would definitely be a strange choice for a title, since Contra III has already been given several direct sequels. Imagine seeing an announcement in today's world for "Castlevania V," for instance.

The only justification I can imagine is that it's a Seiken Densetsesque attempt to manipulate gamers' emotions--as if the only reason certain Contra titles didn't live up to Contra III wasn't a matter of balance or controls but simply the fact that they didn't follow along in the numbering. Conversely, with that numeral in place, press and consumers alike will feel free to love it and buy it--in that order--even if it turns out to be Yoshi's Island DS with guns.

alexb
06-28-2007, 01:28 PM
Yeah, sorry. I'm not sold on this.

djSyndrome
06-28-2007, 01:35 PM
I don't have high hopes for the music (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Kaufman) either. Seriously, is it too much to ask to hire Yuzo Koshiro to do a soundtrack nowdays?

TheSL
06-28-2007, 02:51 PM
Man, I had no idea that you were involved in this Tomm. I guess now we've got someone to praise/blame if the game is awesome/sucks.

1up article (http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?pager.offset=0&cId=3160665) is up now, btw.

Deets
06-28-2007, 03:23 PM
I don't have high hopes for the music (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Kaufman) either.
Please give virt's homepage (http://virt.vgmix.com) a good going-over before making judgments, specifically the "originals" section (also go to 8bitpeoples (http://www.8bitpeoples.com) and listen to his FX3 ep). He's a great musician, even if he's worked on some shitty licensed games (pretty much unavoidable for a game music composer in the US).

Seriously, is it too much to ask to hire Yuzo Koshiro to do a soundtrack nowdays?
For Wayforward? It's probably damn near impossible. And did you play Etrian Odyssey? Because Yuzo Koshiro totally did the music for that.

djSyndrome
06-28-2007, 03:35 PM
Please give virt's homepage (http://virt.vgmix.com) a good going-over before making judgments, specifically the "originals" section (also go to 8bitpeoples (http://www.8bitpeoples.com) and listen to his FX3 ep). He's a great musician, even if he's worked on some shitty licensed games (pretty much unavoidable for a game music composer in the US).

I will give his other non-8bp works a listen tonight; thanks for pointing this out.

Eusis
06-28-2007, 04:12 PM
Nice to finally found out what that mystery game was, heh.

It sounds good, but I suck at Contra, or at least Contra 3. I'll keep an eye on it at any rate.

Sporophyte
06-28-2007, 04:15 PM
I will second the love for virt's work. He really is a top notch musician and I've got a number of his works in my regular listening rotation.

Calorie Mate
06-28-2007, 04:24 PM
Man, I had no idea that you were involved in this Tomm. I guess now we've got someone to praise/blame if the game is awesome/sucks.

1up article (http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?pager.offset=0&cId=3160665) is up now, btw.

It's not like he hasn't been trying to hint at it since the game was announced last week.

Tomm Guycot
06-28-2007, 05:19 PM
The game's subtitle is: "Bitches!"

alexb
06-28-2007, 06:31 PM
Because that worked so well for John Romero. But I would've gone with "Bitch-tits!" given all the 'roids these guys use. Is there still time to change it?

They've got the look down, I'll give them that. I'll be watching, hoping for the best.

mr_bungle700
06-28-2007, 07:52 PM
I am now crazy excited for this game.

reibeatall
06-28-2007, 08:37 PM
I am now crazy excited for this game.

I'm pretty excited about it too, but I'm sure I'll be HORRIBLE at it. Unless UUDDLRLRBA is in it. Then everything will be gravy.

Warg
06-28-2007, 09:27 PM
I'm pretty excited about it too, but I'm sure I'll be HORRIBLE at it. Unless UUDDLRLRBA is in it. Then everything will be gravy.
It's safe to assume the team has fans of classic Konami fare -- and with how many recent games have also used it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Konami_code_games), I'd be surprised if the Konami Code wasn't in there, to be honest.

Will it be used for lives here, though? Or what other role will it play?

cartman414
06-28-2007, 09:51 PM
The game's subtitle is: "Bitches!"

"Contra 4: Bitches!". Sounds good.

Squall
06-28-2007, 11:12 PM
Current Contra mood is:
Wooot! I'm hyped. This thing looks good.
http://www.destructoid.com/first-screens-of-contra-4-on-the-nintendo-ds-will-make-you-hate-polygons-33942.phtml

Parish
06-28-2007, 11:21 PM
SURE WAS NICE OF THEM TO CREDIT THE SOURCE OF THOSE IMAGES. And the EGM scans they posted earlier today! Class act all around, Destructoid!

But yeah, this game is super good. It really, really feels like Contra. And that is more than I can say for most Contra games.

alexb
06-28-2007, 11:24 PM
Do you promise? Because I don't think I could take teasing on this issue.

cartman414
06-28-2007, 11:56 PM
SURE WAS NICE OF THEM TO CREDIT THE SOURCE OF THOSE IMAGES. And the EGM scans they posted earlier today! Class act all around, Destructoid!

But yeah, this game is super good. It really, really feels like Contra. And that is more than I can say for most Contra games.

You know, I have to agree. There haven't been nearly enough running alien hordes since the first it seems.

Speaking of which, it's almost been 20 years since I first saw the arcade Contra at a Burger King/Dairy Queen rest stop on the way to Washington DC during an east coast visit to my uncle.

Vash the Stampede of Trigun had always reminded me a little of Bill (or was it Lance? I've never remembered which one it was) with his blonde buzzcut, especially the flashback scene when his cannon was activated, and he was trying to stop it.

alexb
06-29-2007, 12:27 AM
Bill is the blond guy with the cigar. Lance is the hispanic guy.

LBD_Nytetrayn
06-29-2007, 04:55 AM
"Contra IV" would definitely be a strange choice for a title, since Contra III has already been given several direct sequels. Imagine seeing an announcement in today's world for "Castlevania V," for instance.

The fact it takes place after III but before the rest (save for maybe Hard Corps) sort of justifies the IV.

SURE WAS NICE OF THEM TO CREDIT THE SOURCE OF THOSE IMAGES. And the EGM scans they posted earlier today! Class act all around, Destructoid!

But yeah, this game is super good. It really, really feels like Contra. And that is more than I can say for most Contra games.

This makes me happy. And with the way things have been lately, that's saying something.

...wow, they cropped the 1up logo right out. Halfway.

They did edit to say "more screenshots and a slew of information" are at 1up, at least.

So, how's this grappling thing go, anyway? Does it feel like it'd detract from the gameplay at all?

And the standard gun, PLEASE tell me it's the machinegun like in Contra III. The one thing I don't miss in the originals is having to constantly hammer the button.

"Contra 4: Bitches!". Sounds good.

"Contra 4: The Win"

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

Kishi
06-29-2007, 07:37 AM
So, are they calling the Japanese version Contra Spirits II?

TheSL
06-29-2007, 07:47 AM
It's not like he hasn't been trying to hint at it since the game was announced last week.

I guess his cryptic response to me talking about Contra 4's announcement in the "looking for the old Konami art guy" thread all makes sense now.

Parish
06-29-2007, 08:36 AM
They did edit to say "more screenshots and a slew of information" are at 1up, at least.
Well after the initial post went up.

Calorie Mate
06-29-2007, 11:34 AM
I guess his cryptic response to me talking about Contra 4's announcement in the "looking for the old Konami art guy" thread all makes sense now.

Indeed.


Another important question: release date?

LBD_Nytetrayn
06-29-2007, 11:39 AM
Well after the initial post went up.

Yes, but in my experience, some places aren't even quite that decent, all I'm getting at.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

djSyndrome
06-29-2007, 11:43 AM
Another important question: release date?

Article says September, IIRC.

Savathun
06-29-2007, 04:20 PM
Maybe I can get a DS before then. I'm a ridiculously huge Contra fan (I even play Shattered Soldier and Neo Contra pretty frequently), but I just don't know about this grappling hook thing. I never liked Bionic Commando (like, at all), so the whole thing has unpleasant associations for me.* Plus I don't know about the DS. It has a ton of good games, but I'm not sure I could handle the two screen thing the way it seems to work in this game. That's always sort of scared me off when considering buying one in the past.

LBD_Nytetrayn
06-29-2007, 04:46 PM
After watching the video (http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/12644), I'm not worried about the grappling hook. It's basically like a big jump to take you to the top screen, no fancy swinging or anything.

And I still want to know for sure if turbofire is standard. ;P It's looking like it's not, but I'd love to know with certainty. Making it standard in Contra III instead of an upgrade was one of my favorite changes.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

Savathun
06-29-2007, 04:57 PM
Yeah, it's a lot more satisfying (well, to me, anyway) holding down the fire button and unloading a stream of bullets into a boss instead of pounding on the button.

Ooh, just saw the video and yeah, I wish I hadn't. Now I pretty much have to get a DS. No real way around it now. Oh, and it looks like they brought back those fun enemies that look like they're "dropping off a deposit for Red/Blood Falcon," as Parish put it.

Well, I guess there won't ever be a Blood Falcon if they're jerking around with the timeline, but eh, it's all basically the same thing.

Don't much trust that Hulett guy, though. He has a lean and hungry look.

reibeatall
06-29-2007, 05:16 PM
I'm just waiting on info about multiplayer.

LBD_Nytetrayn
06-29-2007, 05:23 PM
I hope they don't kill the HC/SS stuff, at least. Neo, I'm mixed about, due to the cheese. I mean, it was funny cheese, but cheese nonetheless.

The PS1 games were already retconned out as I understand it, no big loss there.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

Kishi
06-29-2007, 06:38 PM
Shane's right about the graphics; aside from a few exceptions, neither the sprites nor the environments look too much better than those of a GBA game. The colors are even appropriately overbright. There's also a noticeable dearth of parallax, considering the tricks Contra III pulled with scrolling clouds and sand dunes, and while some of the animations are wonderful, overall they're wildly inconsistent. Why, for example, does an enemy soldier look perfectly fluid when throwing a grenade but have literally no transition when changing the aim of his gun from horizontal to diagonal? Would it infringe on the gameplay that much to throw in a couple split-second inbetweeners?

Well, as long as it's fun, I guess.

LBD_Nytetrayn
06-29-2007, 06:40 PM
As long as it's fun, I'm good.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

alexb
06-29-2007, 07:35 PM
Don't much trust that Hulett guy, though. He has a lean and hungry look.

Hungry like the Wolf?

Savathun
06-29-2007, 09:14 PM
Hungry like the Wolf?

Et tu, buccaroo? :(

ArugulaZ
06-29-2007, 09:37 PM
I don't know what all the fuss is about. The game looks pretty damn good to me, although I'm a fan of that old-school look. Wayforward's always done a good job of reproducing that 16-bit aethestic, even in games like Sigma Star Story where the gameplay wasn't so hot.

JR

Andrew
06-29-2007, 10:15 PM
Why, for example, does an enemy soldier look perfectly fluid when throwing a grenade but have literally no transition when changing the aim of his gun from horizontal to diagonal? Would it infringe on the gameplay that much to throw in a couple split-second inbetweeners?

Well, as long as it's fun, I guess.


I'd say possibly. For an extreme example, compare Mega Man 2 controls to Mega Man 8 controls. There's a huge change in responsiveness, much of it due to all the extra animation.

In a Contra, the game should be as responsive as possible, IMO.

cartman414
06-29-2007, 10:57 PM
I don't mind the Contra 3-level old-school visuals, really. They're perfectly fine by me.

If there's one thing that stuck out in the video shown, it was the lag between the two screens, but I'm sure that'll get ironed out.

Squall
06-29-2007, 11:04 PM
I had a retrogasm when the level 1 boss building grew an extra story.

Mister Toups
06-29-2007, 11:21 PM
how far along is this anyway?

also guys stop being mean you'll hurt guycott's feelings

LBD_Nytetrayn
06-29-2007, 11:46 PM
I'd say possibly. For an extreme example, compare Mega Man 2 controls to Mega Man 8 controls. There's a huge change in responsiveness, much of it due to all the extra animation.

In a Contra, the game should be as responsive as possible, IMO.

Aye, the interview was discussing how they'd animate it as much as they could, but not so much that it'd interfere with the twitch gameplay.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

Tomm Guycot
06-30-2007, 01:25 AM
- The game is not due out in September. That's from Wikipedia.

- The gap in the video is MUCH smaller than the actual gap on your DS--there is no delay in real life.

- It looks like it does cause it's on both screens--duh.

sraymonds
06-30-2007, 08:41 AM
I've been waiting for a good 2-d Contra. The ones for the PS2 left a bad taste in my mouth. Shattered Soldier was brutal in it's difficulty, and Neo Contra was just not very memorable. Contra 4 is lookin' good right now.


also guys stop being mean you'll hurt guycott's feelingsI shouldn't tell him that I still haven't evolved his Magikarp Steve then. Steve is the foster kid I shun and lock in the closet.

Mr. Sensible
06-30-2007, 09:08 AM
and Neo Contra was just not very memorable.

I think at least the intro movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GMMN2LVhr0) is pretty memorable in an awful way.

Parish
06-30-2007, 10:35 AM
Overanimation is only a problem when animation takes priority over responsiveness. Contra 4 doesn't have needless transition animations, so its control is as snappy as in the originals.

Any other baseless concerns?

reibeatall
06-30-2007, 10:48 AM
Any other baseless concerns?

Multiplayer.

It's probably too early for that, but it's still a concern for me. I doubt they can do NWC, but that would be fun.

Calorie Mate
06-30-2007, 11:47 AM
The visuals remind me of a good Contra game. Thus, I think they've succeeded in that department.


As for multiplayer, as long as two people can play locally, I'm sold. Contra's all about verbally abusing the person you're playing with, anyway.

Squall
06-30-2007, 12:37 PM
For real, multi over WFC would probably be a bit lame. Voice chat could partially save it.

Andrew
06-30-2007, 02:15 PM
Game's looking better and better. Maybe Konami could be really nice now and publish Shantae Advance...?

Deadguy2322
06-30-2007, 02:26 PM
Game's looking better and better. Maybe Konami could be really nice now and publish Shantae Advance...?

WayForward should just whip up a chintzy status display to stick on the upper screen and rename it Shantae DS. It would be picked up in a second!

Savathun
06-30-2007, 02:48 PM
I hope there are lots more bosses like the fish one in the video. I love that sort of thing in Contra, where you never know what kind of giant, freakish boss you're gonna be up against. I can kind of recall being blown away by the idea of first blowing up the alien's head then, apparently, shooting at its giant heart in the first Contra, and ever since, I've sorta looked forward to that in each new game.

Haven't really been let down yet, so I'm just eager to see what'll show up in this one. So far, though, I think Shattered Soldier's had my favorite bosses, especially up there near the end, with the Blood Falcon and Amalgamate fights.

Um, oh, but hey, what about everyone else? Favorite boss in Contra?

Deets
06-30-2007, 05:57 PM
Hard Corps has hands-down the coolest bosses as far as I'm concerned. The transforming humanoid/chicken/bird boss on the freeway, the walker robot in the space elevator, the entire joke ending boss gauntlet. Shattered Soldiers' bosses never really stood out to me too much, by comparison. But that's to be expected considering the sheer number of bosses in Hard Corps when compared to Shattered Soldier. Totally ridiculous.

Andrew
06-30-2007, 05:58 PM
WayForward should just whip up a chintzy status display to stick on the upper screen and rename it Shantae DS. It would be picked up in a second!

I know that's the most likely form for it to appear in now, but I'll just be glad to have it, period.

Savathun
06-30-2007, 06:11 PM
I've never actually played Hard Corps due to not owning a Sega console of any kind, ever. I've heard it's pretty brutally hard, though.

Deets
06-30-2007, 06:18 PM
Well, it was designed around the player having a 3-hit lifebar, which they removed for the US release. I dunno, the game works pretty well both ways, I think. Emulate the JP version if you just want to see what the game is like, I'd say. Or check youtube. Either way.

Mister Toups
06-30-2007, 07:28 PM
I've never actually played Hard Corps due to not owning a Sega console of any kind, ever. I've heard it's pretty brutally awesome, though.

fixed

Andrew
06-30-2007, 08:37 PM
I seem to recall CHC having short levels, but insanely awesome boss battles.

Deets
07-01-2007, 12:54 AM
That's because it doesn't have levels so much as it has lots and lots of awesome boss battles.

Savathun
07-01-2007, 01:17 AM
That would bother me. It actually sort of bothered me in Shattered Soldier, too. The bosses are awesome, but Contra is one of the few games where I really enjoy the levels in between, too. The running and gunning in Contra is always pretty fun and I missed that.

Neo Contra kind of had the same problem, but the biggest one was that the bosses were too easy. The only way you're gonna see all of their attacks is if you intentionally stop attacking them.

Mister Toups
07-01-2007, 02:04 AM
that's a good criticism.

but it's made irrelevant by one thing.





http://contra.classicgaming.gamespy.com/games/neocontra/animalcontra2.jpg

Savathun
07-01-2007, 02:24 AM
Pretty much every cutscene in that game was comedy gold. "Just call me... Mystery G!

And I love how the final battle takes place while you're in an oxygen-free environment being slowly burned up by the heat of re-entry. Then it ends with a ride on a blue whale.

Makkara
07-01-2007, 03:45 AM
that's a good criticism.

but it's made irrelevant by one thing.





http://contra.classicgaming.gamespy.com/games/neocontra/animalcontra2.jpg

It's a Bull Terrier...

With a pickelhaube...

I must own this game!

LBD_Nytetrayn
07-01-2007, 07:21 AM
Neo Contra is the best cheese ever.

Gameplay-wise, I still say it's best judged on how well you liked the "extra" stages of the past games.

And the cutscenes are just great.

And clearly, Jaguar is more badass than Lance was. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RCmbIwizjY)

I mean, obviously, right? One sword-strike later, problem fucking solved.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

Mister Toups
07-01-2007, 10:57 AM
Pretty much every cutscene in that game was comedy gold. "Just call me... Mystery G!

And I love how the final battle takes place while you're in an oxygen-free environment being slowly burned up by the heat of re-entry. Then it ends with a ride on a blue whale.

"You dog! A real man would go down with his ship!"

alexb
07-01-2007, 11:49 AM
I must own this.

Red Hedgehog
07-01-2007, 12:43 PM
I never liked Bionic Commando (like, at all)

Man, this statement fills me with all sorts of sadness.

Deadguy2322
07-01-2007, 01:15 PM
Man, this statement fills me with all sorts of sadness.

Well, aside from seeing Hitler's head asplode, the game was pretty "Meh."

Calorie Mate
07-01-2007, 01:23 PM
In before massive bans.

Parish
07-01-2007, 02:02 PM
I thought everyone was kidding about him being a troll but I guess not.

Deadguy2322
07-01-2007, 02:25 PM
I thought everyone was kidding about him being a troll but I guess not.

I'm not trolling. The game had some good ideas, but was not completely spectacular. Control was little bit TOO stiff, and the experience and continue systems were too arcane, which I suppose is just as much a failing of the manual as anything.

That being said, I'd love to see a remake, as the concept has amazing potential.

Parish
07-01-2007, 04:20 PM
No, after reviewing your post history, I see you're clearly here to antagonize and annoy people. Which makes me wonder, why even bother? What's the point? I really just don't get it.

Excitemike
07-01-2007, 04:36 PM
I never liked Bionic Commando (like, at all)

I thought I was the only one. I've tried it several times and I do not get it. Not a big Contra fan either, but having a jump button in Bionic Commando would have made a big difference so I'm holding out hope.

Squall
07-01-2007, 05:13 PM
I vaguely remember liking it as a kid, but going back to play it more recently I found it not as good as the 'hype' and the memories. Specifically, the underground part of level 1 was horrid. The level design was just sort of so so through the part before that. I didn't play past the underground, so maybe it cleans up, I couldn't remember.

Beyond that, it was okay. Jumping would be nice, though.

cartman414
07-01-2007, 05:20 PM
Bionic Commando is the rare action game that gets away with non-jumping. The pure use of grappling hook to catch some air requires a lot of instinct. There hasn't been anything else like it ever since.

I'd definitely like to see a new Bionic Commando at the very least by a team who really got what made the NES game so great, similar to how Contra 4 has been in the hands of people with a grasp of the first three games, Tomm included.

Squall
07-01-2007, 05:24 PM
One of these days I'll play Turrican... which one was the best one? Also, Ninja 5-0 worked beatifully with jumping AND grappling. Of course, it also had bland level design, so maybe the two go hand in hand... Was still worth playing, though. It was bland, but not at least it wasn't bad.

Mister Toups
07-01-2007, 05:29 PM
No, after reviewing your post history, I see you're clearly here to antagonize and annoy people. Which makes me wonder, why even bother? What's the point? I really just don't get it.

For real. neogaf is way more fun to troll.

parish he is jealous of your indie e-cred.

Makkara
07-01-2007, 05:37 PM
Never really played Bionic Commando myself, but I do tend to like the grappling hook mechanics whenever they pop up, like in Castlevania IV, or Super Metroid, or Umihara Kawase. It's even cool in 3D, like in Tomb Raider Anniversary (or, I assume, Legends). There's something pleasing about building up momentum by swinging back and forth, and then flinging yourself off into the great unknown.

Of course, as far as I can tell, the hook in Contra 4 only seems to take you straight up, with no swinging. Oh well.

Squall
07-01-2007, 05:43 PM
Just went back and played the game again. There's limited swinging back and forth in BC, but it's still pretty fun to fling yourself around, and it works well enough. But man, I dunno why, but it's way more fun to jump then grapple than just grapple. I'd say that thrill alone docks Bionic Commando like 5% to me. Also: not being able to jump over barrels. At least you can grab the item drops if your quick enough. Last major complaint: parachuting enemies.

Hell, I'd be happy with BC if you could just climb over those damn barrels. I hate seeing items drop and knowing it's too much trouble to get them. Beyond that, the game is pretty awesome, but in a 'could have been even more awesome' sort of way.

Savathun
07-01-2007, 06:42 PM
Oh, I thought Parish was talking about me being a troll. XD I just honestly didn't like Bionic Commando because I'm impatient and not very good at the game. I don't necessarily think it was a bad game or anything, just not for me. I couldn't get my head around the no jumping thing.

Doesn't look like Contra 4 is anything like it, though, so my concerns are moot in that regard. I just need to hurry up and get a DS, because I already really want this game.

Tomm Guycot
07-01-2007, 07:02 PM
My main worry in implementing the GH was that the game would become Bionic Commando. I know a lot of people wouldn't have minded--but it's Contra, and I think you'll find it feels very Contra in its implementation.

Which isn't to say I"m not dying to make a game that has a BC style hook AND jumping--but it won't be Contra. But I think it'd be awesome.

Torgo
07-01-2007, 07:50 PM
So long as it's on DS, I'm good.

(Well, maybe PSP. The jury is still out on weather or not FFT will truly be able to force my hand).

mr_bungle700
07-01-2007, 07:55 PM
My main worry in implementing the GH was that the game would become Bionic Commando. I know a lot of people wouldn't have minded--but it's Contra, and I think you'll find it feels very Contra in its implementation.

Which isn't to say I"m not dying to make a game that has a BC style hook AND jumping--but it won't be Contra. But I think it'd be awesome.

You must do so, sir. I was disappointed at first when I realized that the grappling hook in C4 doesn't work like the one in Bionic Commando, but I came to the same conclusion: that Contra is not Bionic Commando. Alterations to the level designs to make them more grappling hook friendly would have also made them less Contra-like, and that's a trade-off even a BC fanatic like me wouldn't want.

Speaking of Bionic Commando...how many of you that don't love the game played it for the first time recently? It's possible that it's one of those "had to be there" games, where the impact is much less significant nowadays than it was back when the game came out. I got it back then and it's one of my favorite games ever, but maybe my affection for it is a lot more subjective than I like to think it is.

Or maybe it's a great game and you guys can't see that BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO SOULS!

...Seriously, though, it may not have perfect level designs, but the levels were pretty carefully crafted to make excellent use of the grappling hook and gradually make you more and more adept with it. You don't have as much freedom to just mess around as I would like, but there isn't only one way to tackle each level either. And yeah, as deadguy said, the experience and continue systems aren't particularly clear, but this was an NES game and the fact that those things were present at all was pretty impressive. Besides, it's easy enough to figure out once you've played the game for a little while.

And then there's Exploding Hitler.

Squall
07-01-2007, 08:12 PM
My main worry in implementing the GH was that the game would become Bionic Commando.

OMG You mean we can blow people up by wailing at our Guitars? Best game ever! space guitar lasers FTW!

Seriously though, someone needs to make a space action game like that using the Guitar Hero controller and tons of 80's rock cliches.

Mister Toups
07-01-2007, 08:12 PM
My main worry in implementing the GH was that the game would become Bionic Commando. I know a lot of people wouldn't have minded--but it's Contra, and I think you'll find it feels very Contra in its implementation.

Which isn't to say I"m not dying to make a game that has a BC style hook AND jumping--but it won't be Contra. But I think it'd be awesome.

I appreciate this sentiment.

At the same time, though, in my humble opinion, Bionic Commando is way better than Contra. I love them both, but Bionic Commando is really in a league of its own, especially given when it came out.

Calorie Mate
07-01-2007, 08:20 PM
OMG You mean we can blow people up by wailing at our Guitars? Best game ever! space guitar lasers FTW!

Seriously though, someone needs to make a space action game like that using the Guitar Hero controller and tons of 80's rock cliches.

I seem to remember some independent platforming game that utilized the Guitar Hero controller, but I can't seem to find evidence of this anywhere anymore. I would really like to try it out some day.

Squall
07-01-2007, 08:22 PM
Tecnhically, anything on PC that uses a USB device will use it.
But this program is something that should be found, if it exists.

Mightyblue
07-01-2007, 08:24 PM
If I recall, it was someone saying they'd used their GH guitar to play Cave Story, but they couldn't reassign all of the buttons because the game wouldn't recognize all of the guitar's buttons or something.

I don't think it was a particular game designed with the controller in mind or anything.

Kirin
07-02-2007, 10:05 AM
What we really need is the Macross 7 game where you use the guitar hero controller to pilot your giant robot. I would pay not insignificant amounts of money for that.

cartman414
07-02-2007, 10:26 AM
My main worry in implementing the GH was that the game would become Bionic Commando. I know a lot of people wouldn't have minded--but it's Contra, and I think you'll find it feels very Contra in its implementation.

Which isn't to say I"m not dying to make a game that has a BC style hook AND jumping--but it won't be Contra. But I think it'd be awesome.

Not too much emphasis on jumping though, or else it wouldn't be Bionic Commando.

Red Hedgehog
07-03-2007, 12:36 PM
Or maybe it's a great game and you guys can't see that BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO SOULS!

Yeah, I think that's the issue.

I mean, can you imagine the pitch? "We're going to make a side-scrolling platformer... where you can't jump." But they totally pulled it off. More than just a gimmick, the bionic arm really makes the game. For a game made back on the NES, they completely got the control down. So much so that when I play other games with grappling hook mechanics (Castlevania IV, Super Metroid) I'm always disappointed that it doesn't work as well as Bionic Commando's. Swinging like tarzan and making that last second grab before you fall to your doom are so well done. Or using the arm swing to get behind an enemy and shoot him in the back. Or using the arm to deflect bullets or push guys away.

Most of the flaws of the game have been pointed out - obtuse experience and continue system, poor localization, and it can be a little annoying just to get something beyond a barrel. But these aren't dealbreakers at all and the game is still one of the funnest I have played on the NES. It even edges out (just barely) Contra (single player, anyway). There, I said it.

One more plus to Bionic Commando - you don't die/lose health for landing on a guy's head. That always bothered me in video games. It always seemed like such a video game conceit.

Kishi
07-13-2007, 01:52 AM
Oh man, have you guys seen all the Contra 4 footage? That shit looks crazy. Let's all talk about it.

Woo! (http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=8064)

Eusis
07-13-2007, 02:02 AM
Damn, that's some pretty good music. I'll need to grab more of his stuff.

Sporophyte
07-13-2007, 10:04 AM
Everything about that video - gameplay, music, and graphics just screams "This game kicks ass." I might need to buy it twice.

shivam
07-13-2007, 10:08 AM
its...contra. REAL contra. this...this makes me happy.

reibeatall
07-13-2007, 10:14 AM
Watching this makes me want to play the SNES Contra again to tide me over.

Virtual Console, here I come!

alexb
07-13-2007, 10:24 AM
Okay, Tomm. You win. I'm in. I think it's pretty great.

Sporophyte
07-13-2007, 10:37 AM
So now that I've watched the video 8 times and poured over all the screen shots, I know that S, L, C, H, and M are returning for weapons. So I must know, will we see F too?

Calorie Mate
07-13-2007, 11:12 AM
i don't see why you guys are excited. this looks like shitty SNES grafix to me, lol

reibeatall
07-13-2007, 11:13 AM
i don't see why you guys are excited. this looks like shitty SNES grafix to me, lol

dont forget about the lag

mr_bungle700
07-13-2007, 11:47 AM
So now that I've watched the video 8 times and poured over all the screen shots, I know that S, L, C, H, and M are returning for weapons. So I must know, will we see F too?

This is indeed a pressing question!

Kishi
07-13-2007, 01:58 PM
I like the helicopter and the foreground palm trees. They remind me of Metal Slug.

And, as always, that grenade-throwing animation is slick as hell.

Tomm Guycot
07-14-2007, 01:39 AM
Don't worry guys--you can F yourselves silly late this year.

Kishi
07-16-2007, 11:19 PM
By the way, I love that Game Kommander (http://www.ne.jp/asahi/hzk/kommander/) is keeping up with the latest American media from his home in Japan. Something about a shoe and the other foot.

Tomm Guycot
07-16-2007, 11:24 PM
I could not be happier about seeing that on a Japanese page.

Excitemike
07-27-2007, 08:40 AM
Hey, guys, have you heard about this other Bionic Commando remake? (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3161576)

LBD_Nytetrayn
08-28-2007, 10:55 PM
Well, I wasn't sure how to go about this, but at the risk of sitewhoring, I figured this would be the best place to put it.

Exclusive: Contra 4: Konami Interviews Aggressively! (http://poisonmushroom.megamanempire.net//?page_id=1403)

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

Savathun
08-28-2007, 11:47 PM
I'll buy Contra 4 when it comes out, but I don't relish the thought of lining the pockets of lunatic millionaires like that Hulett guy.

Oh, and... "SL: Hmmm; sounds like a case of split personalities. You wanna take this one Tomm?"

Now why on earth would Tomm know anything about split personalities? What are they implying? Hmm?

Savathun
08-29-2007, 03:08 AM
But Brandon doesn't exist.

Calorie Mate
08-29-2007, 11:06 AM
But Brandon doesn't exist.

Maybe Tomm doesn't exist.