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View Full Version : Selection for Societal Sanity: Metal Gear Solid


Parish
04-06-2008, 06:39 PM
Man, after the dud that was Metal Gear 2, you schmucks had better participate in this one.

Metal Gear Solid
Konami | PlayStation | Action | 1998

Note: Twin Snakes may only be mentioned in a mocking, spiteful tone.

Adrenaline
04-06-2008, 06:47 PM
My copy's at home.

I know I'm in the minority here but I thought the first Sniper Wolf fight's intensity was more enjoyable than the impressive depth of dueling The End.

Guy
04-06-2008, 06:48 PM
I got my copy of Metal Gear Essentials in the mail two days ago and I'm already at the Revolver Ocelot fight, so I'm quite prepared.

Speaking of Ocelot: Now that the series has fleshed him out as such an important and totally awesome character, I really wish he had had a better boss fight than the one in MGS, which is mostly just an introduction to fighting bosses. It doesn't do him much justice.

Eusis
04-06-2008, 06:48 PM
I liked Metal Gear 2 when I played through it years back, but I just didn't really feel like playing again for whatever reason. I'll see how well my old copy of MGS works though.

Mazian
04-06-2008, 07:03 PM
Excellent. I picked up the Essentials box a week ago, and somehow I've managed to avoid most spoilers for this game for the last... um... ten years. Where did the time go?

Just figured out how to take down Psycho Mantis. I like it: it completely screws with your mind, but it's not unfair once you catch on to the hints. You could encapsulate an entire complicated love-hate relationship with Kojima with that battle alone.

So, about the VR Missions. Is there any point to finishing those, other than practicing the gameplay?

Tomm Guycot
04-06-2008, 07:10 PM
MGS literally changed everything I ever thought about games at the time.

Best part was, the only reason I bought MGS was EGM's writeup about how the dual shock mimicked a heart attack. Sounded interesting enough to check out.

I had no interest in the game beyond that, and the first time I played it I hated it and thought it was stupid. I went back to Xenogears, which came out the exact same day, instead. Not surprisingly, after finding Bart or some nonsense I put that on hold and went back to MGS...where I stayed for the next few days until it was completed.

I'd like to say my views on Xenogears are skewed because I played through it following the single most influential game of my life, but... Xenogears just sucks.

Long live MGS.

Crested Penguin
04-06-2008, 07:20 PM
I'm of two minds on the "leveling" lifebar/inventory. On the one hand it's artificial and unnecessary, which is why it isn't in the later games. On the other hand, it does make the guards and early bosses non-trivial threats, since you aren't a bullet sponge in the early game. Especially if you don't bother to look for rations because you're barreling through the game :P

Also, playing the game without using the codec except when forced to is pretty nice. I got used to it from the minimal codec-use in MGS3, and the game feels so much more right without staring at the green portraits babble. Nastasha really sucks the fun right out of the game.

Adrenaline
04-06-2008, 07:24 PM
I'm of two minds on the "leveling" lifebar/inventory. On the one hand it's artificial and unnecessary, which is why it isn't in the later games.

Your health increases over time when you take damage in MGS3.

reibeatall
04-06-2008, 07:35 PM
So, about the VR Missions. Is there any point to finishing those, other than practicing the gameplay?


Giant Meryl.

Adrenaline
04-06-2008, 07:43 PM
Essentials has the VR missions but not the second disc of Subsistence?

djSyndrome
04-06-2008, 08:05 PM
Is this including the VR missions? Because I love me some VR missions.

Mazian
04-06-2008, 08:06 PM
Giant Meryl.
That's a... good thing?
Essentials has the VR missions but not the second disc of Subsistence?
Correct. MGS has two PSX discs (SLUS-00776), MGS2 and 3 have one PS2 disc apiece.

I do have a gameplay question. When I sneak up behind an enemy goon to snap his neck, it triggers Alert Mode about half of the time. Any tips for getting that down towards 0%? I haven't been able to determine what I'm doing differently between getting Alert Mode and making a silent kill.

Guy
04-06-2008, 08:15 PM
Essentials has the VR missions but not the second disc of Subsistence?

It has the basic VR missions that were present on the original disk. It does not include the full game, Metal Gear Solid: VR Missions.

Correct. MGS has two PSX discs (SLUS-00776), MGS2 and 3 have one PS2 disc apiece.

The second disk isn't anything extra. Once you get to... a place (not sure if it's un-spoilery enough to tell you) the first disk ends and you have to insert disk two.

pence
04-06-2008, 08:42 PM
I think this counts as a mocking, spiteful tone. I put in a friend's copy of twin snakes and... snake is made of butter. He slides off of everything you try to stick to, but sticks to everything you want to run past. The action button is no longer the punch button. It has the bizarre first person aiming from Metal Gear Solid 2, but uses the action button to cancel aiming. I died a thousand times in the tank hangar because I could no longer choke people from the side or the front. Sigh.

MGS is awesome, though!

Guy
04-06-2008, 10:09 PM
I just noticed that you can actually see the lasers in the corridor from the Tank Hangar to the Canyon without the thermal goggles or cigarettes. They're just really, really faint.

Mines are probably the worst obstacle in all of Metal Gear. Even if you can't see them, they can't hurt you if you crawl over them, and in fact it's more useful to do that than avoid them since you can pick them up. In the bit after Psycho Mantis where you have to follow Meryl's footprints to avoid the mines, I always just ignored the footprints and crawled over the entire section of floor (it's not like you can take the time to retrace your steps with Sniper Wolf sniping at you anyway)

mopinks
04-06-2008, 10:22 PM
I don't have time for that crawling nonsense. REAL HEROES RUSH HEADLONG INTO EVERY SITUATION WITHOUT THINKING.

Crested Penguin
04-06-2008, 11:17 PM
Your health increases over time when you take damage in MGS3.

That's neat, I never noticed that. It's still pretty different from the MGS method, where you beat a boss, Snake strikes a pose, and your lifebar increases with a little sound effect. It's just like getting a heart container in Zelda. The MGS3 method is more organic and subtle.

shivam
04-06-2008, 11:19 PM
ok, i never played MGS. I might as well start here. is there a version available for 360, or do i need to plug in my ps2?

Mazian
04-06-2008, 11:25 PM
You'll be needing the PS2. There is a PC port, but I don't hear good things about it.

reibeatall
04-06-2008, 11:26 PM
That's neat, I never noticed that. It's still pretty different from the MGS method, where you beat a boss, Snake strikes a pose, and your lifebar increases with a little sound effect. It's just like getting a heart container in Zelda. The MGS3 method is more organic and subtle.

Organic for a sayian, maybe.

Alastor
04-07-2008, 12:11 AM
I do have a gameplay question. When I sneak up behind an enemy goon to snap his neck, it triggers Alert Mode about half of the time. Any tips for getting that down towards 0%? I haven't been able to determine what I'm doing differently between getting Alert Mode and making a silent kill.

That's always bothered me, because you have to be juuuuuuuuuust the right distance from him before you grab him. Too close and the alarm will trigger. Not close enough and Snake will grab at the air (and risk having the guard turn around).

I'm one of those woefully ignorant folks who payed zero attention to Metal Gear because, you know, dark and gritty military game blah blah blah. I had little knowledge of the stealth genre. A friend of mine was a longtime fan and would never shut up about its greatness, and he finally convinced me to pick up Twin Snakes when it came out. After that, I took on MGS2 and 3 and the rest is history.

So I didn't even play the original MGS until maybe two years ago. Even then, I preferred it over Twin Snakes. The music, voice acting, atmosphere, and uncluttered gameplay totally beat the pants off of fancy cutscenes. Several years from now, I'll still be going back to play through this game.

Odin
04-07-2008, 01:49 AM
You'll be needing the PS2. There is a PC port, but I don't hear good things about it.

Really? I thought it was pretty good, myself. The textures were a lot more crisp than the PSX ones, although in retrospect not having a DualShock really detracts from the experience. But that was eight years ago, so my memory could be different than reality.

Yes, the first time I played through Metal Gear Solid was on the PC. My friends and I were all Nintendo loyalists except for one. I borrowed his PSX to play FFVIII and IX, but he never told me I HAD to play MGS. I finally played it right after I'd played FFIX, when another friend got the PC port and he said "You HAVE to play this game!!" I was blown away. When the first friend sold his PSX so he could buy a PS2, I bought it and quickly got my own copy of the original Metal Gear Solid.

Adrenaline
04-07-2008, 09:31 AM
It has the basic VR missions that were present on the original disk. It does not include the full game, Metal Gear Solid: VR Missions.


So in other words none of this

Giant Meryl.

K.

The MGS3 method is more organic and subtle.

So subtle, you didn't even notice!

Jakanden
04-07-2008, 10:23 AM
I actually didn't play MGS1 until after MGS2. Due to this, I didn't have the intense hatred of Raiden that many people did. I still don't hate Raiden, but after playing MGS1 I understood why people were pissed they didn't get to play as Snake.

My personal favorite fight of the game is Psycho Mantis. Whenever the subject of memorable boss fights come up, he is always up there on my list. The 4th wall breaking was just crazy and the way you have to beat him was pretty unique.

I went back and replayed Twin Snakes last month as I had just finished MGS3 and didn't feel like waiting for this to start to play through MGS1. I have to say that I don't dislike it as much as I remember. Sure some of the cut scenes are over the top, but I like the enhancements brought from MGS2 and the game is still fun.

I'd like to say my views on Xenogears are skewed because I played through it following the single most influential game of my life, but... Xenogears just sucks.

Long live MGS.

This man speaks truth.

Parish
04-07-2008, 10:56 AM
So I decided to put my money with my mouth is and took a break from harvesting loot on B22F to buy Demon Mail and played an hour of Metal Gear Solid. Man, this game is fantastic. I can't believe the sophistication of the cutscenes -- this was 1998! No video game had ever taken such a mature, complex visual approach to storytelling, and honestly the detail and liveliness of the game still trumps most of what we see today, lo-rez abstraction aside.

I think I'm with Tomm here; much of why I'm so down on Xenogears has to do with the fact that it tried to do a lot of the same things, narratively, that MGS did, but seemed so clumsy and amateurish in comparison... made worse by the fact they were released on the same day. Well, that and the fact that the creators didn't know when to shut up and get on with the game... although I guess that means its narrative isn't so far removed from MGS's again.

Yeah, most of that hour was spent listening and sitting. No MGS playthrough is complete without the mission briefings, which add a lot of depth and substance to the game. (Important continuity nods, too, like the remains of Big Boss being terribly burned... and tip-offs for later in the game, such as Naomi's irritating passive-aggressiveness.) I think the briefings may have my single favorite Solid Snake moment, actually -- his dry retort of "I understand... Colonel" when Campbell tells him not to call him Colonel, and his small, subtle smile. He's not such a heartless badass after all!

Also, the English voice acting is so, so good. I'd forgotten how much less gravelly Hayter played Snake in the original. He doesn't sound so much "RARR BADASS" as he simply seems world-weary and guarded.

Guys this game is pretty incredible, OK? And I'm only in the air ducts! I haven't even seen Meryl's naughty sit-ups yet.

djSyndrome
04-07-2008, 11:06 AM
Also, the English voice acting is so, so good. I'd forgotten how much less gravelly Hayter played Snake in the original. He doesn't sound so much "RARR BADASS" as he simply seems world-weary and guarded.

This. Or whatever the kids say nowdays. In my mind, MGS1 still a gold standard for VA work and localization.

When playing through for the first time years ago, I was genuinely caught off guard by Psycho Mantis' "You like Castlevania, don't you?" comment. Took a few minutes to figure out that the freak was reading my memory card and not staring at the SOTN game and soundtrack sitting proudly on the shelf to my right.

Parish
04-07-2008, 11:20 AM
This. Or whatever the kids say nowdays. In my mind, MGS1 still a gold standard for VA work and localization.
I am noticing some voice work problems this time. Like, I adore Mei Ling's accent, but then she mentions that her parents were Chinese while she was born and raised in America... whoops!

Kishi
04-07-2008, 11:33 AM
I assume that's why her accent was removed for the re-recordings in The Twin Snakes. Naomi also lived in America from an early age, so her English accent is gone, too.


Also, the English voice acting is so, so good. I'd forgotten how much less gravelly Hayter played Snake in the original. He doesn't sound so much "RARR BADASS" as he simply seems world-weary and guarded.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. Hayter's Snake was beautiful up through MGS2, but he had clearly lost touch with his own portrayal by TTS and MGS3, where his performances just reek of trying too hard. ("You like gravel? Then have all the gravel in the world!") And with the decision to have him sound like he's coughing up his guts every line in MGS4, I'm afraid those glory days are never to return.

ringworm
04-07-2008, 11:35 AM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. Hayter's Snake was beautiful up through MGS2, but he had clearly lost touch with his own portrayal by TTS and MGS3, where his performances just reek of trying too hard. ("You like gravel? Then have all the gravel in the world!") And with the decision to have him sound like he's coughing up his guts every line in MGS4, I'm afraid those glory days are never to return.
You think that was his doing? I'd sooner believe it was the directors' fault.

Kishi
04-07-2008, 11:40 AM
If you're referring to Old Snake, so would I! It definitely smacks of directorial decree. But it's still an impediment.

ShakeWell
04-07-2008, 12:20 PM
If you're referring to Old Snake, so would I! It definitely smacks of directorial decree. But it's still an impediment.

You can't blame Hayter for it, though. As an actor, you have to do what the director says. Believe me, I've done some ridiculous shit. As an actor, I always strive for coming off as natural and believable, but some directors (especially in film, and, I'm guessing, games) don't want any of that realism bullshit! If it is strictly a directorial decree, my heart goes out to Hayter. Of course, he can cry himself to sleep on his matress full of money.

Kishi
04-07-2008, 12:24 PM
You can't blame Hayter for it, though.

And I don't.

Tomm Guycot
04-07-2008, 12:25 PM
anyone who bitches about Hayter post-MGS1 can go to hell. In that hell, Pliskin from MGS2 will scream "That is NOT Solid Snake!" over and over and over again.

For me this is heaven.

You guys suck. Now I really really want to play MGS--but I'm still playing Crisis Core! I'm not made of time.

TheSL
04-07-2008, 12:31 PM
You guys suck. Now I really really want to play MGS--but I'm still playing Crisis Core! I'm not made of time.

Since you more than likely know the story by heart you could probably play through the game in a night or two. I think I got MGS2 down to like 4 or 5 hours after skipping cutscenes and codecs the 5th or 6th time through for dogtags.

Kishi
04-07-2008, 12:32 PM
In that hell, Pliskin from MGS2 will scream "That is NOT Solid Snake!" over and over and over again.

For me this is heaven.

I also like "OCELOT!!" from the Tanker climax. He could actually raise his voice as much as emotions warranted back then! Now it would just get in the way of that sweet, precious phlegm.

Jakanden
04-07-2008, 12:37 PM
anyone who bitches about Hayter post-MGS1 can go to hell. In that hell, Pliskin from MGS2 will scream "That is NOT Solid Snake!" over and over and over again.

Once again, he speaks truth. Perhaps it was the fact that I played MGS2 first, but I dig the acting post MGS1 more myself.

reibeatall
04-07-2008, 12:38 PM
What's a Russian gunship doing here?!

pence
04-07-2008, 12:38 PM
I am noticing some voice work problems this time. Like, I adore Mei Ling's accent, but then she mentions that her parents were Chinese while she was born and raised in America... whoops!

You could always play TTS... my roommate, who encouraged me to play it instead of MGS, bore witness to my angry, half-sober anger over Mei Ling's ditzy new voice actor. But it definitely sounds like she was born and raised in America!

Fun trick: put the sound on 'mono' in the options screen, then call for advice during the fight with the Hind. Mei Ling (or whoever) will suggest that you listen to determine which direction the helicopter is coming from, pause to think, and then tell Snake to buy a stereo television for chrissakes, it's the 90s. Fourth wall: nowhere in sight.

Kishi
04-07-2008, 12:45 PM
You could always play TTS... my roommate, who encouraged me to play it instead of MGS, bore witness to my angry, half-sober anger over Mei Ling's ditzy new voice actor. But it definitely sounds like she was born and raised in America!

It's the same voice actress.

cortbassist89
04-07-2008, 12:50 PM
A surveillance camera!?

cortbassist89
04-07-2008, 01:05 PM
Also, you've got to love that Kojima actually put in silly things like seeing Meryl's panties if you follow her to the bathroom fast enough.

I saw that on GameFAQs once and thought: no way, why would they do that?

And it was there. Silly Japan.

pence
04-07-2008, 01:13 PM
It's the same voice actress.

I must be aged beyond my years, as I apparently fear change. Change that makes perfect sense, even.

Loki
04-07-2008, 01:22 PM
I played through it a couple of weeks ago when Essentials was released and I had some few thoughts concerning Nokia missiles. First, they total break the second fight with Wolf. I don't know why I never thought to use them bad in the day, but it seemed so obvious this time around. You can barley stick an eyebrow out of cover before Wolf blasts it off but she willfully ignores a missile rocketing into her thigh?

Second, these missiles are remote controlled with a CC camera attached to the tip? Talk about impractical. Each round would cost thousands of dollars. And here they are just lying around by the dozen. For a game that strives for (military) realism this weapon is way out of place.

TheSL
04-07-2008, 01:26 PM
Nokia missiles. First, they total break the second fight with Wolf. I don't know why I never thought to use them bad in the day, but it seemed so obvious this time around. You can barley stick an eyebrow out of cover before Wolf blasts it off but she willfully ignores a missile rocking into her thigh?

I thought I was the only one who did this. People give me crazy looks when i say I don't want to sit around sniping her forever.

SlimJimm
04-07-2008, 01:26 PM
Yeah I played the original a month or so ago for like the 4th time and I still couldnt beat Sniper Wolf without using Nikitas. Well maybe I could, but I hate losing all my rations.

cortbassist89
04-07-2008, 01:30 PM
Yeah I played the original a month or so ago for like the 4th time and I still couldnt beat Sniper Wolf without using Nikitas. Well maybe I could, but I hate losing all my rations.
Seriously, Nikitas make that fight so quick and easy.

Kishi
04-07-2008, 01:37 PM
For a game that strives for (military) realism this weapon is way out of place.

The games strive for futurism at least as much as they do realism, especially since they always take place at least a few years ahead of their own releases. Consider the presence of things like stealth camouflage and, heck, Metal Gear itself.

For a weapon that's really out of place, there's no reason a French FA-MAS rifle would be lying around the armory of an American nuclear waste disposal facility. Like the SOCOM handgun, it was included in the game because due to its distinctive shape (easy to represent with a low number of polygons) and popularity among gun nuts.

Loki
04-07-2008, 01:41 PM
For a weapon that's really out of place, there's no reason a French FA-MAS rifle would be lying around the armory of an American nuclear waste disposal facility.

For whatever reason that really doesn't bother me. I guess I just expect all kinds of weird stuff to be lying around Alaska.

Kishi
04-07-2008, 01:45 PM
Well, there is Sanagi (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/member.php?u=91), I guess.

Parish
04-07-2008, 01:48 PM
I must be aged beyond my years, as I apparently fear change. Change that makes perfect sense, even.
Actually the problem isn't Mei Ling's redacted accent but the fact that the voice acting in Twin Snakes is as half-hearted and lifeless as the rest of the game. That is why you hate it.

Savathun
04-07-2008, 01:52 PM
I already miss Naomi's accent.

Not so much Liquid's though.

Kishi
04-07-2008, 01:56 PM
Anyone who bitches about Cam Clarke can go to a hell where Liquid yells, "I'm YOU! I'm your SHADOW!" over and over and over again.

For me, this is also heaven.

cortbassist89
04-07-2008, 02:07 PM
Anyone who bitches about Cam Clarke can go to a hell where Leonardo yells, "I'm YOU! I'm your SHADOW!" over and over and over again.

For me, this is also heaven.

alexb
04-07-2008, 02:12 PM
TESUOOOO! I mean, SNAAAAAAAKE! (http://www.gamespite.net/toastywiki/index.php/Site/ThumbnailMetalGearSolid1-04)

Actually, you kids that haven't played the game through yet, don't click that.

Savathun
04-07-2008, 02:14 PM
Anyone who bitches about Cam Clarke can go to a hell where Liquid yells, "I'm YOU! I'm your SHADOW!" over and over and over again.

For me, this is also heaven.

Like surfing. Not a bad way to go.

Ocelot's pretty good with the menacing and such, so that's ok. At least they've still got him.

Kishi
04-07-2008, 02:17 PM
TESUOOOO! I mean, SNAAAAAAAKE! (http://www.gamespite.net/toastywiki/index.php/Site/ThumbnailMetalGearSolid1-04)

"How did a Ninja Turtle get a Russian helicopter?"

alexb
04-07-2008, 02:18 PM
Seriously, though. You like Cam Clarke's performance?

Kishi
04-07-2008, 02:22 PM
I love it. I watched a ton of Ninja Turtles as a kid, too, and I never even thought to draw that comparison until I saw people cracking snide jokes about it on the Internet. I'm going to sorely miss him in MGS4, and I can only hope Patric Zimmerman will be able to yell dramatically enough to follow in his footsteps.

alexb
04-07-2008, 02:29 PM
Leonardo was absolutely my favorite turtle, but the dude has no range. It's also immediately obvious that it's him, so it's Leonardo the Ninja Turtle pretending to be whatever it is that he's pretending to be in this game or cartoon. I'm glad they have him speaking with Ocelot's voice in Guns of the Patriots.

Tomm Guycot
04-07-2008, 02:35 PM
For me, this is also heaven.

Inner Heaven?

Since you more than likely know the story by heart you could probably play through the game in a night or two. I think I got MGS2 down to like 4 or 5 hours after skipping cutscenes and codecs the 5th or 6th time through for dogtags.

Like hell would I ever skip the cutscenes.

Calorie Mate
04-07-2008, 03:02 PM
Like hell would I ever skip the cutscenes.

My thoughts exactly.


...dammit, I really want to play through this now, too.


...sigh...I don't even have time to play Smash online as it is!


As for Hayter's voice acting: I'll agree that MGS1's is great, but I didn't mind it in TTS at all, and my brain just went, "MGS3 Snake = Big Boss = more gravel, please!" so that was cool, too.

Red Hedgehog
04-07-2008, 03:03 PM
Grr... You guys are making me want to replay this. I know it will still be awesome.

I played through the PS1 version for the first time in 2004 or early '05 and found it to be just great. I started again to try for a Big Boss rank but never got past the part where you first meet Meryl. Perhaps I should continue...

Savathun
04-07-2008, 03:13 PM
I love it. I watched a ton of Ninja Turtles as a kid, too, and I never even thought to draw that comparison until I saw people cracking snide jokes about it on the Internet. I'm going to sorely miss him in MGS4, and I can only hope Patric Zimmerman will be able to yell dramatically enough to follow in his footsteps.

His "BROTHAAAAAAAAAAAR! This is the liberty we've won for ourselves!" was pretty cool.

Then again, I replay that part over and over again to see the two neat Metal Gears.

Calorie Mate
04-07-2008, 03:36 PM
Doesn't everybody? I think I fire that video up at least once a month.

Guy
04-07-2008, 07:20 PM
I'm kinda disappointed that Liquid's retarded Ninja Turtle voice is gone, but if it means we get to hear way more Zimmerman then good riddance.

blitzchamp
04-07-2008, 08:04 PM
There is something about the first part when the title comes across the screen for the first time. I can watch it over and over.

One of my favorite things about MGS is how you have so many different options on how to handle things, like take the very beginning of the game, you have all these options on how you want to try and enter the main building. Normally I go through the bottom left side. What about you guys?

Isn't it kind of funny knowing what will happen to see Naomi telling Snake if he makes it back he can do a strip search on her. She's secretly saying FAT CHANCE DEAD MAN. Aha.

Adrenaline
04-07-2008, 08:17 PM
While thinking of Clarke's performance as Liquid, a synapse connected somewhere and I was reminded of silly line "I feel as powerful as Odin!" Sure enough, the guy played Thor in Marvel: Ultimate Alliance.

It's hard to take The Boss and Vamp seriously when they're played by Family Guy voice actors.

BTW how are they explaining Ocelot no longer using Liquid's voice?

Guy
04-07-2008, 08:39 PM
One of my favorite things about MGS is how you have so many different options on how to handle things, like take the very beginning of the game, you have all these options on how you want to try and enter the main building. Normally I go through the bottom left side. What about you guys?

I take the top entrance. One: you get to hear the dialogue foreshadowing the ninja and letting you know where the DARPA chief is being held, so it just kinda seems right. Two: You end up on that upper walkway instead of in the vents on the first floor, which I prefer since I don't have to look around so carefully while the radar is jammed.

Lakupo
04-07-2008, 08:56 PM
Man, after the dud that was Metal Gear 2, you schmucks had better participate in this one.

I can't keep up with it all. I would've liked to have participated in the Metal Gear 2 thing, but I haven't finished Metal Gear 1, and I have too many other games to play! And I don't even have a copy of MGS (I rented it back in the day -- but I do have VR Missions), so this is out. Stop scheduling so many of these things together, Parish!

Matchstick
04-07-2008, 09:11 PM
I had been planning to replay MGS and MGS2 after GTAIV, but now I think I'm going to have to at least do MGS when I get home next week.

blitzchamp
04-07-2008, 09:27 PM
It's funny that I can still remember Meryl's frequency even though it's been so many years.

Red Hedgehog
04-07-2008, 09:28 PM
I can't keep up with it all. I would've liked to have participated in the Metal Gear 2 thing, but I haven't finished Metal Gear 1, and I have too many other games to play!

This is actually why I didn't participate in Metal Gear 2. I've never finished the MSX Metal Gear and I was involved with other things and my Subsistence is buried in a box that I'd have to search for. I'm totally going to get to it when I come up for air with my backlog.

le geek
04-07-2008, 09:53 PM
This looks like a great opportunity for me to correct an egregious over site on my part, and actually finish Metal Gear Solid. I rented it when it came out, getting maybe a 1/3 through it. I later picked it up, but never got back to the game. Hence, Ocarina of Time was the game around that time that "Blew my mind".

Crested Penguin
04-07-2008, 10:48 PM
I don't know why I never thought to use them bad in the day, but it seemed so obvious this time around. You can barley stick an eyebrow out of cover before Wolf blasts it off but she willfully ignores a missile rocketing into her thigh?

This is news to me - awesome news. This is a clear example of what makes MGS bosses so good compared to, say, Zelda bosses. There's a sort of "built-in" way that you can approach fighting them - use a particular combinations of weapons or techniques, ala Zelda - but there's also room for creative use of your other equipment. In a lot of games, you're stuck with the one way that the game designers intend for you to beat the boss.

The fight against Raven is really the ultimate expression of that freedom in MGS1. You can make use of pretty much anything and everything in your arsenal, as long as you're smart about it.

blitzchamp
04-07-2008, 11:01 PM
I'm fighting Psycho Mantis right now and I can't make it work! I switched my controller and nothings happening, he's going to kill me! Whats going on?

Alastor
04-08-2008, 12:16 AM
My best friend is playing through MGS2 and 3 side by side. After a full day of playing both for the first time, he's reached the Harrier and Ladder of Doom respectively. Can't wait for him to finish so we can have aimless conversations about the Patriots.

It's amazing how scary the wolves are, what with the red eyes and all. I was scared shitless when they started to follow me through the crawlspaces. I'm about to reach the comm towers.

That reminds me, how did you guys do on your first time in the torture scene? Give in or fight through it?

Tomm Guycot
04-08-2008, 12:24 AM
Parish - please do not schedule MGS2 during the MGO beta. I definitely want to play through that prior to MGS4, but you know, scheduling.

estragon
04-08-2008, 04:43 AM
So, this is, somewhat shamefully, my second through this game since my stupidly well documented (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?t=2778) first play through all the MGS games a couple months ago. This also makes it my first completely broken playthrough the game, since I have both of the special items and intend to abuse them frequently.

One hitch in this pointless power trip has been that Ocelot was able to see me when I was stealth. Are all the bosses immune to the steal item? That would be really disappointing, because I was really looking forward to some completely unfairly easy Sniper Wolf battles.

Jakanden
04-08-2008, 05:10 AM
I'm fighting....Whats going on?

You playing on a PS3 or a PS2? I wondered how this fight would work on a PS3 as far as changing the controllers in the menu.

If on a PS2, I don't know as it worked fine for me when I last played it.

That reminds me, how did you guys do on your first time in the torture scene? Give in or fight through it?

I had fought through as I unfortunately, already knew both outcomes prior to playing the game.

estragon
04-08-2008, 05:20 AM
You playing on a PS3 or a PS2? I wondered how this fight would work on a PS3 as far as changing the controllers in the menu.

Go to the menu. Change the controller port, just like you would if you were changing your virtual memory card port or whatever. It works with no problem at all, although it's a lot less jarring than having to physically get another controller.

Kishi
04-08-2008, 05:39 AM
One hitch in this pointless power trip has been that Ocelot was able to see me when I was stealth. Are all the bosses immune to the stealth item? That would be really disappointing, because I was really looking forward to some completely unfairly easy Sniper Wolf battles.

Bosses can see through stealth camouflage. (They're not in FOXHOUND for nothin'.) MGS2 and onward also made it so that it deactivates if you bump into someone; and if you're, say, strangling a guard, another guard observing the situation will be able to infer that he's not just choking on his rations. So, while you can't run up and punch Raven in the face, enjoy bewildering normal enemies to your heart's content while you can.

Adrenaline
04-08-2008, 08:17 AM
Huh? What's that noise?

blitzchamp
04-08-2008, 10:02 AM
You playing on a PS3 or a PS2? I wondered how this fight would work on a PS3 as far as changing the controllers in the menu.

If on a PS2, I don't know as it worked fine for me when I last played it.



I had fought through as I unfortunately, already knew both outcomes prior to playing the game.

I'm using a PS2. Maybe it's the fact that I'm not using a regular dual shock controller, but a Hip brand controller. It's pretty messed up to know how to fight the boss and then keep losing regardless.

Kishi
04-08-2008, 10:05 AM
If you die three times, Campbell is call to ask if there's some reason why you can't switch controller ports. He'll then tell you to destroy the statues on either side of the room, which will disrupt Mantis's mind-reading to the same effect.

blitzchamp
04-08-2008, 10:11 AM
If you die three times, Campbell is call to ask if there's some reason why you can't switch controller ports. He'll then tell you to destroy the statues on either side of the room, which will disrupt Mantis's mind-reading to the same effect.

I have read this somewhere online, though I have never died three times successfully, actually I've never died before on this fight until last night. I'll try switching to a different type of controller, and if not then I guess I'll let myself die.



That reminds me, how did you guys do on your first time in the torture scene? Give in or fight through it?

Give in. My reaction time with a Playstation controller has never been that good.

SlimJimm
04-08-2008, 10:25 AM
The bosses in this game were the best of the series. I loved Ocelot and Raven in this game. You dont mess with a guy who carries a minigun and is a threat in the Muktuk eating contest. In MGS2, there was a fat guy on roller skates, a woman with psychic powers (but not in a cool Mantis way), and a vampire who never dies. And in MGS3 the battles with invisible spider guy and The End were fun, but you never really heard much from them during the game unlike in MGS1.

Reading my statements above, I sound like a tard, but I just wanted to say something about my love for MGS1 before I leave this computer lab.

blitzchamp
04-08-2008, 11:19 AM
I think it was the controller that was the problem, once I switched to a regular Sony controller the battle became my win again.

Anyone else notice that Meryl sounds like Ashlee Simpson sometimes?

Dizzy
04-08-2008, 01:09 PM
Also, the English voice acting is so, so good. I'd forgotten how much less gravelly Hayter played Snake in the original. He doesn't sound so much "RARR BADASS" as he simply seems world-weary and guarded.


I'm absolutely in love with the voice acting. Revolver Ocelot is my favorite. His sneering and mischievous tone is wonderful. I also think the guys who did Psycho Mantis and Vulcan Raven deserve some nods too. They did one scene as the soldiers and sounded completely different. They could be master prank callers at any rate. Liquid is so over the top, he practically goes off the rails when revealing his identity to Snake at the end of the fetch quest. Long live the British Ninja Turtle voice. Codec voice acting isn't bad either. I'd want Campbell's voice narrating all the possible COA's in my life and give me a briefing of every store I enter.

Another thing: the music? I think the soundtrack is impressive. Kind of MIDI-like but impressive nonetheless, and not so beat-boppy and technoish as the score for the rest of the games.

Parish
04-08-2008, 01:31 PM
As a general rule of thumb, I love all the music composed by TAPPY and Norihiko Hibino and can't stand Harry Gregson-Williams' stuff. The Japanese composers really nail the sensation of sneaking with the appropriate atmosphere. MGS has a coldness to it that feels appropriate in an Alaskan facility, while MGS3 incorporates a lot of '60s-era musical motifs that might be anachronistic by a few years but nevertheless subtly set the time period without being overt about it.

Kishi
04-08-2008, 01:45 PM
Didn't Harry compose the in-game music for MGS2's Tanker chapter? I thought that was some of the best music in the game (not that that's saying much; piano jazz puts me to sleep).

But yeah, TAPPY forever. MGS1's soundtrack is my favorite in the series, and it's at least as cinematically mature as the game's visual aspects.

Dizzy
04-08-2008, 03:37 PM
Yeah because its intense and thrilling. It doesn't have piano jazz or Japanese flutes with soothing lounge music playing in the background that gets mildly energetic when you're caught. Take the music that plays in the first Ocelot fight in Twin Snakes. I could have swore that was in MGS2 in some way or form - and it's so prosaic that it makes the whole exchange utterly monotonous.

This thread is getting downright horny with MGS.

Calorie Mate
04-08-2008, 04:40 PM
Nothin' wrong with lovin' your Snake.

Adrenaline
04-08-2008, 07:21 PM
As a general rule of thumb, I love all the music composed by TAPPY and Norihiko Hibino and can't stand Harry Gregson-Williams' stuff. The Japanese composers really nail the sensation of sneaking with the appropriate atmosphere. MGS has a coldness to it that feels appropriate in an Alaskan facility, while MGS3 incorporates a lot of '60s-era musical motifs that might be anachronistic by a few years but nevertheless subtly set the time period without being overt about it.

Who made the main theme? Because I really like it, especially the arrangement at the end of MGS3.

Kishi
04-08-2008, 07:24 PM
The original main theme, as heard in MGS1, is Tappi Iwase's (although he apparently plagiarized (http://youtube.com/watch?v=dTcNUoxCmHI) parts of it from some obscure Russian track from the '70s--ahh well). The arrangements heard in MGS2 and MGS3 are Gregson-Williams's.

Mr. Sensible
04-08-2008, 07:26 PM
I guess when you're a hot-shot game music composer, you don't have to live by anyone's preconceptions of capitalization but your own.

Here's to you, TAPPY.

Adrenaline
04-08-2008, 08:32 PM
Meh, it's noticeably different, and I like the MGS version more. There's lots of similarities in music.

Rai
04-08-2008, 08:45 PM
Ok, so this thread is full of love for MGS, which makes me happy because it's one of my favorite games of all time. But no one's brought up the absolute best part of the game.

There's snow on the ground.

This may not make much sense, but I remember the first time I played the game. A babysitter had brought his PS1 over and brought MGS, and like the irresponsible yet awesome guy he was, he let 10 year old me play. I made it through the first area easily enough, and I got to the heliport.

I understood stealth, and I understood where I had to go. But for the life of me, I could not figure out why I was constantly getting found out, and thus, killed. I had even stopped going after the grenades once I found out the spotlights would, y'know, spot me. (I was a stupid kid.) I got bored and frustrated, and then I played Final Fantasy 8 some. I regretted that even back then.

It wasn't until about a year later that I finally realized: I left footprints. Footprints that the enemy soldiers actually noticed. And followed. That attention to detail amazed me, and that sense really hasn't left the MGS franchise.

So in addition to the excellent voice acting, the over-the-top in a good way plot, and the surprisingly fun gameplay, I love Metal Gear Solid because of the snow.

Oh, and also Metal Gear!? I loves me some Metal Gear!?

blitzchamp
04-08-2008, 09:25 PM
That attention to detail amazed me, and that sense really hasn't left the MGS franchise.


I know what you mean. After having played the MGS series, I feel kind of spoiled on how many things I can interact with in a video game. Going back to MGS this time around, after playing MGS2 and MGS3, and not being able to open lockers or stuff guards away was like torture for me. Though I still will always like MGS more.

Guy
04-09-2008, 12:13 AM
I remember the ability to break bottles in the lounge of the Tanker in MGS2 blew my tiny mind.

alexb
04-09-2008, 10:13 AM
Break bottles? What about how you could knock over that bin of ice and then the ice would melt. The smaller clumps of ice would melt faster than the larger ones. Now that was impressive attention to detail. But you know, there was never anything quite that detailed afterwards.

Parish
04-09-2008, 10:52 AM
Yeah, we can save this for the MGS2 fun club, but there were parts of the game that felt like "tech demo proof of concept" -- the ones shown in previews -- and then there was the rest of the game. MGS3 was much better about bringing that level of detail into the full game. In fact, the opening portions were probably the least interesting.

Tomm Guycot
04-09-2008, 11:01 AM
Yeah, we can save this for the MGS2 fun club, but there were parts of the game that felt like "tech demo proof of concept" -- the ones shown in previews -- and then there was the rest of the game. MGS3 was much better about bringing that level of detail into the full game. In fact, the opening portions were probably the least interesting.

I think it's pretty clear Kojima's ambitions were too big even for the mighty PS2.

This might explain why MGS3 took a new path (prequel) instead of continuing the "Solid Snake" story, which the Document of MGS2 suggests is what we now know as MGS4.

Just to tie this in... that makes MGS the "MGS4" of MG, MG2:SS, and MGS. Meaning, the ultimate expression of all the ideas Kojima was working with for years.

Reluctant Hero
04-09-2008, 11:17 AM
Just to tie this in... that makes MGS the "MGS4" of MG, MG2:SS, and MGS. Meaning, the ultimate expression of all the ideas Kojima was working with for years.

Brilliant, seriously.

Parish
04-09-2008, 11:36 AM
Brilliant, seriously.
I dunno, too much beatific hero-worship makes me a little queasy.

Reluctant Hero
04-09-2008, 11:46 AM
I dunno, too much beatific hero-worship makes me a little queasy.

Hmm... I can't tell if you talking about my response to Tomm's comment or the MG series as a whole. So I'll answer both routes.

For Tomm's comment, I thought he made a great point because I never thought of MGS as the culmination of everything Kojima wanted to achieve in MG and MG:SS. But it's true. MGS is the ultimate evolution of those two games. Then Kojima brought out MGS2 and it was a great game, but not the masterpiece that MGS is. So MGS4 is looking to be the ultimate evolution of MGS 2 & 3, as well as the series as a whole.

Calorie Mate
04-09-2008, 11:57 AM
I dunno, too much beatific hero-worship makes me a little queasy.

That doesn't make him any less right in this case.

Tomm Guycot
04-09-2008, 12:49 PM
I dunno, too much beatific hero-worship makes me a little queasy.

I like being shot down for making valid points as much as the next guy Parish, but could we pick on someone new for a bit?

Patrick
04-09-2008, 12:52 PM
Yeah, we can save this for the MGS2 fun club, but there were parts of the game that felt like "tech demo proof of concept" -- the ones shown in previews -- and then there was the rest of the game. MGS3 was much better about bringing that level of detail into the full game. In fact, the opening portions were probably the least interesting.

Speaking of which, when is the MGS2 FC going to start? I haven't participated in fun club in a while (aside from the Brawl discussion orgy that enveloped the whole internet a few weeks ago), but I think that I need to replay MGS2 before 4 comes out.

Mazian
04-09-2008, 01:19 PM
Speaking of which, when is the MGS2 FC going to start?
The schedule (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?t=3423) says May.

Patrick
04-09-2008, 02:46 PM
Thanks!

I will be prepared.

Gredlen
04-09-2008, 10:17 PM
Guys, you have NO IDEA how relieved I am that Metal Gear uses currently existing technology. If it used technology that didn't exist, well... who knows what would happen?!

Guy
04-09-2008, 11:18 PM
Guys, you have NO IDEA how relieved I am that Metal Gear uses currently existing technology. If it used technology that didn't exist, well... who knows what would happen?!

I just wish the Solition Radar used technology that has yet to exist. It might have been just the edge we needed.

Eusis
04-10-2008, 12:14 AM
Popped in the game and played half an hour, getting up to the Darpa Chief's cell. This is more nostalgic than I expected, and I'm enjoying the gameplay throwback. I'm not sure how far I'll get though since I inspected disc 2 and noticed it had some label side damage, I may have to get the Essentials collection to finish it.

estragon
04-10-2008, 08:17 AM
Is anyone else bothered by the fact that Liquid's grudge is founded on a completely misguided understanding of genetics? Recessive genes are in no way inferior to dominant genes! So much trouble could have been avoided if someone had just given Liquid a basic explanation about genetics.

This is completely aside from the fact that (spoilers I guess) Liquid actually has the dominant genes anyway. If anything, this actually bothers me even more, because the way the game talks about overcoming genetic fate at the end (where recessive Snake beats dominant Liquid) implies that this misunderstanding of genetics is not just Liquid's quirk as a villian but rather something the game makers didn't understand themselves.

It doesn't make sneaking around in a cardboard box any less awesome, however!

djSyndrome
04-10-2008, 08:20 AM
Is anyone else bothered by the fact that Liquid's grudge is founded on a completely misguided understanding of genetics?

No more so than the fact that his psyche managed to live on through his arm.

Parish
04-10-2008, 08:22 AM
Well, given the nature of the genes in question, the dominant genes would have been the ones that made Big Boss the ultimate soldier while the recessive genes would have been puny, weak ones repressed in his genotype. So the notion of strong vs. weak does make sense... in a completely nonsensical Kojima way.

Kishi
04-10-2008, 08:38 AM
Is anyone else bothered by the fact that Liquid's grudge is founded on a completely misguided understanding of genetics? Recessive genes are in no way inferior to dominant genes! So much trouble could have been avoided if someone had just given Liquid a basic explanation about genetics.

Genetics in the MGS universe work very differently from how they do in the real world, simplified and dramatized for the sake of narrative--not unlike the actual feasibility of a bipedal nuclear tank. In that context, Liquid had every reason to believe a concept as unrealistic as "dominant good, recessive bad," especially since the reverse turned out to be true.


This is completely aside from the fact that (spoilers I guess) Liquid actually has the dominant genes anyway.

This appears to be a misconception. Ocelot's post-credits twist reveals that Liquid was the superior clone, not that he had the dominant genes. It just turned out that the dominant genes were inferior.


If anything, this actually bothers me even more, because the way the game talks about overcoming genetic fate at the end (where recessive Snake beats dominant Liquid) implies that this misunderstanding of genetics is not just Liquid's quirk as a villian but rather something the game makers didn't understand themselves.

How so? Snake wins, seemingly with the superior genes on his side. Then Naomi tells him, "Don't be ruled by your genes," mainly referring to Liquid's interminable screed about how they have no choice but to be murderous brutes due to being cloned from Big Boss, and how he even regards soldiers treated with the old man's genes as his brothers. When Snake turns out to have had the sucky genes after all, it only reinforces the lesson.

estragon
04-10-2008, 08:40 AM
Well, given the nature of the genes in question, the dominant genes would have been the ones that made Big Boss the ultimate soldier while the recessive genes would have been puny, weak ones repressed in his genotype.

But . . . that's not how genes work. This is my point, actually. It's likely that a lot of Big Boss' traits were expressed through recessive genes! Not only are recessive genes not inferior, recessive also doesn't mean not expressed.

Everyone with blue eyes, for example, has those because of recessive blue eyed genes. Giving someone only the dominant genes would mean that a lot of the their traits, including many "superior" ones, would actually not be expressed.

In any case, as djSyndrome emphasized by nothing that his psyche continues to live on in his arm, I don't think this matters at all, really, because it's all goofy and clearly not based on believable science.

But I still crack up that the main villian's grudge is caused by a scientific misunderstanding.

estragon
04-10-2008, 08:49 AM
This appears to be a misconception. Ocelot's post-credits twist reveals that Liquid was the superior clone, not that he had the dominant genes. It just turned out that the dominant genes were inferior.

I'll pay closer attention to this bit of dialogue next time. Thanks for the heads up. I wonder if this is a translation quirk or (more likely) just poor comprehension on my part, because in Japanese "recessive gene" is literally "inferior gene" (劣性遺伝子). So this is definitely something I might have misunderstood if they are just saying that his genes were inferior as opposed to him having the recessive (or, in Japanese "inferior") genes. When I beat it this time I'll listen really closely and figure out if I was misreading this (which is definitely possible!).

How so? . . . When Snake turns out to have had the sucky genes after all, it only reinforces the lesson.

Mostly because I think the game's entire portrayal of genetics is hilarious, as is noted in the post above.

Guy
04-10-2008, 08:52 AM
No more so than the fact that his psyche managed to live on through his arm.

That was justified in MGS3 when it was explained that Ocelot was the son of The Boss and The Sorrow, the latter having been a powerful spirit medium. We're to assume that Ocelot inherited his dad's abilities to a degree.

djSyndrome
04-10-2008, 08:55 AM
Not to throw a wrench into anyone's argument, but recessive and dominant genes are only a factor when mating. If you're creating a genetic clone of another being, they normally don't come into play.

Kishi
04-10-2008, 08:57 AM
Kojima has said that the arm business will be sorted out once and for all in MGS4, so until then, we won't know for sure whether it was hereditary "spirit powers," some business with nanomachines, or anything else. (I'm personally holding out hope for nanos; the supernatural fantasy stuff seems out of place in the more sci-fi-oriented world of MGS.)

estragon
04-10-2008, 09:00 AM
Not to throw a wrench into anyone's argument, but recessive and dominant genes are only a factor when mating. If you're creating a genetic clone of another being, they normally don't come into play.

Yes, this is also very funny.

Kishi
04-10-2008, 09:02 AM
Not to throw a wrench into anyone's argument, but recessive and dominant genes are only a factor when mating. If you're creating a genetic clone of another being, they normally don't come into play.

"Normally" as in "not in a fictional story featuring levitating psychics and bipedal tanks."

estragon
04-10-2008, 09:08 AM
"Normally" as in "not in a fictional story featuring levitating psychics and bipedal tanks."

Yeah, before anyone starts to care about any of this, I want to emphasize that the only reason I even cared about the ressive/dominant thing was that I thought it made his whole motivation hilarious. I wasn't trying to make any serious criticisms, because MGS is obviously not a science textbook.

It is, however, an awesome video game series.

Crested Penguin
04-10-2008, 09:55 AM
There is no rationalization for the stupidity of how genetics are dealt with in MGS. As a biologist I have to just grit my teeth and pretend they're talking about something else during those parts, but it really makes zero sense. Unlike the problems of bipedal tanks and such, it isn't possible that future technology will change the way genes work.

I'll throw out a few of the many problems that haven't been mentioned and then shut up about it:

It's virtually impossible to create an organism with "all recessive" or "all dominant" alleles if you were cloning. If Big Boss had one one gene with two recessive or dominant alleles, one of the clones would be non-functional. It is almost certain that both would be.

Not all alleles are dominant or recessive. Many alleles are codominant, so both are expressed.

Also, a high frequency of "fixed" alleles (when an individual has only one allele at each gene, as the Snakes are supposed to be) are generally a bad thing and are the reason we avoid inbreeding.

Actually, almost anything to do with biology is totally backwards in the game. Naomi suggests that she can cure Snake's rhinovirus (cold) with antibiotics, but she has no way to deliver antibiotics through the nanomachines. I think most people are familiar with the fact that antibiotics don't do anything to viruses, though.

Okay, I'm done.

Kishi
04-10-2008, 10:17 AM
A bipedal tank couldn't traverse much more with its feet than a normal tank can with its treads, and adding legs would only raise its profile and make it difficult to balance; all those gatling guns and short-range missiles wouldn't do much good if a grenade or two could knock it to the ground. And believe me when I say there are people (http://www.1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=4551247) who get just as flustered by this as you do by the biological angle.

Amusingly, Sigint points out all of these shortcomings in MGS3 and receives no rebuttal. If it weren't already obvious, that should clarify that Kojima is fully aware he's putting a fantastical spin on reality, and that everyone who lets these things get to them should just relax and enjoy the nonsense.

Tomm Guycot
04-10-2008, 11:15 AM
It's a fictional world guys, that is the point being made when people are like "psychics! walking tanks!"

Fictional worlds exist in books and movies and TV and music and, yes, even videogames.

Just because something takes place in "the real world" doesn't mean everything will function and hold to reality.

Crested Penguin
04-10-2008, 11:54 AM
It's a fictional world guys, that is the point being made when people are like "psychics! walking tanks!"

Fictional worlds exist in books and movies and TV and music and, yes, even videogames.

Just because something takes place in "the real world" doesn't mean everything will function and hold to reality.

Oh I know. It's just that it's a science-fiction fictional world. And usually in science fiction, when you bring in a real-world element, you do a basic level of research. Especially since it's obvious that Kojima is really into doing research on military tactics and so on. I am able to look beyond it, and I love the game, but that science fiction element falls apart. Which is too bad, since the theme of the first game is "genes" according to Kojima.

There would be tons of people complaining about this in a film, tv, or book fictional world as well. Probably more, since people usually have higher standards of consistency in those mediums.

Red Hedgehog
04-10-2008, 12:13 PM
It's a fictional world guys, that is the point being made when people are like "psychics! walking tanks!"

Fictional worlds exist in books and movies and TV and music and, yes, even videogames.

Just because something takes place in "the real world" doesn't mean everything will function and hold to reality.

It's the same principle behind why people will accept that Superman is an alien baby sent from a dying planet whose powers are given by earth's yellow sun, but complain about how unrealistic it is for him to change in a phone booth.

Adrenaline
04-10-2008, 12:37 PM
(I'm personally holding out hope for nanos; the supernatural fantasy stuff seems out of place in the more sci-fi-oriented world of MGS.)

I thought the same thing about Fortune turning out to be magic after all, but it's a recurring element in the series so I deal with it. What was bothering me wasn't that she couldn't die, but that she couldn't when Ocelot thought they were just making it up.

Savathun
04-10-2008, 12:50 PM
It's a fictional world guys, that is the point being made when people are like "psychics! walking tanks!"

Fictional worlds exist in books and movies and TV and music and, yes, even videogames.

Just because something takes place in "the real world" doesn't mean everything will function and hold to reality.

My problem with it and too much of the supernatural stuff is that it doesn't stay consistent. Even a fictional world should have rules so that you know the stakes and so that what happens actually matters. If it breaks the rules or there are no stakes, there is no point and you're left with Cloud and Sephiroth flying through the air and fighting battles that are completely meaningless.

So when stuff like Fortune does happen, I get a little nervous, because you wonder "Well, when are they going to break the rules next? They can just arbitrarily change things around again just as easily."

Maybe I'm investing too much into the story, well, no I AM investing too much, but that stuff does kind of bother me at the time.

I don't actually have much of a problem with Liquid's talk about recessive/dominant genes because I just figured it was one of his ways to justify his inferiority complex. If that were the case, he almost wouldn't care if it were true or not. He'd just assume it MUST be and leave it at that.

Crested Penguin
04-10-2008, 01:11 PM
I don't actually have much of a problem with Liquid's talk about recessive/dominant genes because I just figured it was one of his ways to justify his inferiority complex. If that were the case, he almost wouldn't care if it were true or not. He'd just assume it MUST be and leave it at that.

Thank you Brandon, I like this way of looking at it. I'd rather Liquid have a flawed understanding of genetics constructed to suit his psychology instead of the entire MGS setting have laws of genetics that don't make sense, even in the context of the game.

Kishi
04-10-2008, 01:23 PM
The faulty account of genetics is canon to the series, though. The whole point of Solidus's creation was that he was a well-balanced mix of dominant and recessive genes, rather than being composed entirely of one or the other like his older "brothers."

Patrick
04-10-2008, 02:13 PM
Fortune's supernatural deathproofing was odd (also, I wonder what role she will play in 4), but it was part of the same game where Snake pointed out his "infinite ammo" headband to Raiden. The whole point of MGS2 was that no matter how seriously you take things, it is still just a game in the end.

I guess I should wait for the next fun club to get into that though. ;)

TheSL
04-10-2008, 02:20 PM
Fortune's supernatural deathproofing was odd (also, I wonder what role she will play in 4)

None because she's dead.

Tomm Guycot
04-10-2008, 02:25 PM
Oh I know. It's just that it's a science-fiction fictional world. And usually in science fiction, when you bring in a real-world element, you do a basic level of research. Especially since it's obvious that Kojima is really into doing research on military tactics and so on. I am able to look beyond it, and I love the game, but that science fiction element falls apart. Which is too bad, since the theme of the first game is "genes" according to Kojima.

And the theme still holds up. It's about making your own future, regardless of your genetic predispositions.

That theme holds up regardless of whether you're using Kojima's or the actual definition of "genes" and how they work - it's saying in nature vs. nurture, nurture wins (which is later refuted in MGS2 and 3 to ultimately mean YOU determine who you are, not these factors you could "blame" yourself on).

Fortune's "weird magical powers" in 2 (which I think was an awesome scene) are the best example of this theme being shown via fictional elements. Ocelot knew factually she had no abilities, but she was still able to save herself.

Crested Penguin
04-10-2008, 02:28 PM
The faulty account of genetics is canon to the series, though. The whole point of Solidus's creation was that he was a well-balanced mix of dominant and recessive genes, rather than being composed entirely of one or the other like his older "brothers."

Way to blow my attempt at willful ignorance. :(

Crested Penguin
04-10-2008, 02:47 PM
And the theme still holds up. It's about making your own future, regardless of your genetic predispositions.

That theme holds up regardless of whether you're using Kojima's or the actual definition of "genes" and how they work - it's saying in nature vs. nurture, nurture wins

But Kojima has to use magic non-explained Kojima genetics to make the point, which really weakens any point he is trying to make. In the context of MGS, it basically means, "if genetics worked this way, then nurture triumphs over nature!" Which is sad because you can make a valid argument along those lines using regular old genetics. So why use magic Kojima genetics?

I wouldn't mind seeing a piece of science fiction that explored what things would be like if biology followed a different system of inheritance, but MGS doesn't do that in any thoughtful way.

alexb
04-10-2008, 02:57 PM
Most of the pop spiritualism in games, MGS included, is laughable, stupid bullshit. Sorry, but it's true. Kojima is interesting, but his points aren't really cogent.

SilentSnake
04-10-2008, 08:52 PM
I have to say that, as someone who has never fully played MGS yet still played MGS 2 and 3, I was worried that going backwards in time would taint what was a landmark game, but it is actually really fun, partially because that's the wrong way to look at it. It actually feels more like a super-awesome upgrade of Metal Gear in 3D. The overhead perspective actually feels like a throwback to this, as well as the small rooms in random positions that housed unique items. While I miss the additional options MGS2 brought, the level design, while a bit monotonous artistically (at least so far), the levels just beg to be explored. I enjoy the nostalgia I get where I suddenly find a Gas Mask. Suprisingly good voice acting too. About to go into the Psycho Mantis boss. The first three have not disappointed so far.

As far as the inconsistency of background science, I guess it never really bothered me. As much nonsense as this game spouts, it also constantly reminds you that it is a game. Perhaps too much. The very first optional codec conversation with the Master was him talking to Snake, but the last line kinda broke the consistency of the fictional universe and broke the third wall by telling Snake, yet in reality us, to "think like a gamer". I guess the whole Psycho Mantis battle could be another example of this (or so I've heard. I'm about to find out). In a way, this self-awareness is cool in that it is a game that knows it is a game (though the many movies argue otherwise), yet at the same time it felt like it was trying too hard to compensate for any inconsistencies that appeared. They really didn't bother me, but I can see it bothering someone who would know about the topics.

But yeah, I'm really enjoying this game so far. (Oh yeah first Talking Time post I guess)

blitzchamp
04-11-2008, 08:27 AM
Who is actually playing through MGS right now? and where are you? I'm almost at the beginning of Disk 2.

SilentSnake
04-11-2008, 10:22 AM
Who is actually playing through MGS right now? and where are you? I'm almost at the beginning of Disk 2.

I am and just got to where Sniper Wolf shoots Meryl. Thought I'd be stuck in the caves forever, but then I remembered I had Night Vision Goggles. Saved my eyes from permanent eye strain. This is my first playthrough so I don't know where the disks switch. Is it much farther?

Alastor
04-11-2008, 10:35 AM
Last night I played from the PAL key temperature bit all the way to the end. I know Meryl's ending is canon and all, but ugh, the saccharine dialogue makes it hard for me to stomach. I just prefer hearing "Hal and Dave, huh?" in the final scene.

Guy
04-11-2008, 10:37 AM
I am and just got to where thingy. Thought I'd be stuck in the caves forever, but then I remembered I had Night Vision Goggles. Saved my eyes from permanent eye strain. This is my first playthrough so I don't know where the disks switch. Is it much farther?

The Playstation disk switch is right when you enter the warehouse where Metal Gear is. The Twin Snakes disk switch (I think) is right when you enter the communications tower (after you escape from captivity)

blitzchamp
04-11-2008, 10:51 AM
Last night I played from the PAL key temperature bit all the way to the end. I know Meryl's ending is canon and all, but ugh, the saccharine dialogue makes it hard for me to stomach. I just prefer hearing "Hal and Dave, huh?" in the final scene.

I've never actually reached the Meryl ending before. I'd always die before so I would just submit. This time, however, I made it through it just barely. It won't matter much though, YouTube is always my source for watching endings I don't achieve.

SilentSnake
04-11-2008, 11:04 AM
Now that I think about it, does anyone know what was so mockable about The Twin Snakes? I've heard so far that the cinematics were ridiculous and the music didn't fit, but there must be more to it than that.

TheSL
04-11-2008, 11:10 AM
Crap, I totally forgot I've got a save file with the bandana and stealth camo lying around somewhere. Maybe I should dig that up so I can screw around a little more easily.

Parish
04-11-2008, 12:34 PM
Now that I think about it, does anyone know what was so mockable about The Twin Snakes? I've heard so far that the cinematics were ridiculous and the music didn't fit, but there must be more to it than that.
The gameplay was damaged if not broken -- the controls were upgraded to an MGS2-style interface but the levels weren't designed for being able to fire from first-person view, hanging from rails and peeking around corners. But mostly it's the story, which missed the point. Snake's appeal centers around his humanity, the fact that he's not a superman. Ninja-kicking missiles or whatever completely undermines the weight of the post-torture codec scenes where he's begging Naomi to take his mind off the pain of what's happened to him.

blitzchamp
04-11-2008, 12:54 PM
I'm glad I never had the honor of playing Twin Snakes. The original version is all I can associate with the series.

SlimJimm
04-11-2008, 01:45 PM
Is the torture sequence really that hard for most people? Just mash that O button like theres no tomorrow!

Just messing with an old save, and I still hate that no guns room in the Nuke building. I always get so paranoid about moving away from some of the corners. ><

SilentSnake
04-11-2008, 02:05 PM
Is the torture sequence really that hard for most people? Just mash that O button like theres no tomorrow!

Just messing with an old save, and I still hate that no guns room in the Nuke building. I always get so paranoid about moving away from some of the corners. ><

Hmm I guess that room never really bothered me since I don't normally plan on killing anyone when I move around. I guess its a symptom of not having pop-out from a wall. Honestly I hate shooting any other way in these game, so I avoid it. I guess I also kinda feel like I'm failing if I have to use the guns on anyone but bosses. That is kinda a flaw I see with the game. It gives you freedom to do things how you want, but it presents itself as "stealth", so you don't feel as much achievement if you aren't stealthy. Of course, that's the point of a game like this. But I guess I kinda wish they would find more stealthy things to do with guns. (the silencer was a start)

Crested Penguin
04-11-2008, 02:14 PM
I'm just before the battle with Raven - a highlight of the game for me, but I'm afraid I might lose steam afterwards, especially since the 3 key bit isn't very exciting.

I've only been able to get through the torture sequence with the help of more button-mashing capable friends. I always wish I had a turbo controller for that part. I KNOW YOU'RE BLUFFING OCELOT!

Parish
04-11-2008, 03:28 PM
Oh, I played a few more minutes of this last night. The Tank Hangar really took me back.

The Tank Hangar is the moment I fell in love with MGS, because that's where the game's connection to the original Metal Gear clicked for me. Suddenly it really did feel like I was playing the sequel to that NES game I'd enjoyed so long ago. Here I was again, sneaking around parked tanks, avoiding a foot patrol by clinging to the walls and evading security cameras. It was the first time any 3D game had ever captured the essence of a classic 8-bit experience so perfectly, and yet it was so much more sophisticated than any 3D game I'd yet played. It created an amazing bridge between the games of previous generations and what was clearly the future of gaming. It gave me a brief but profound moment of happiness.

Mr. Sensible
04-11-2008, 03:29 PM
Is the torture sequence really that hard for most people? Just mash that O button like theres no tomorrow!

Seriously, unless you have some kind of injury just man up and mash through the pain.

Jeez, now I'm gonna have to play this again just to prove to myself that I can still do it.

On a related note, does Otacon die if you endure Ocelot's torture and save Meryl? I should probably just finish the damn game. Dammit. Oh what the hell, better late than never.

Kishi
04-11-2008, 03:37 PM
On a related note, does Otacon die if you endure Ocelot's torture and save Meryl?

Nope! In either ending, the air raid gets called off.

By the way, you know that "WARNING" timer that counts down through the final escape sequence? It's just there for tension; nothing happens if you let it run down to zero.

blitzchamp
04-11-2008, 06:09 PM
By the way, you know that "WARNING" timer that counts down through the final escape sequence? It's just there for tension; nothing happens if you let it run down to zero.

You totally exposed the spoiler by quoting it.

Are you serious about the warning timer, I used to get so apprehensive when it happened, it reminds me of the apprehension you get from sudden deaths in classic games like Sonic the Hedgehog, Mario, or even Crash Bandicoot. Oh well.

Guy
04-11-2008, 09:56 PM
I never realized before how many things Meryl stuffs in her tits instead of her pockets. In the scene where she chats with Snake in the little girls' room, she pulls out like two card keys and an ammo clip.

SilentSnake
04-11-2008, 09:57 PM
Okay just finished my first ever playthrough. Here's my stats:

Game Level: Normal
Play Time: 11:58:20
Save: 5 Times
Continue: 70 Times
Being Found: 45 Times
Enemies: 134 Killed
Rations: 143 Used

Code Name: Elephant

Special Items: Bandana


Wow that was a lot of fun. It is a small miracle that a PS1 game in 3D can hold up as well as this. While it wasn't as stressful as MGS 2 or 3, it was extremely well made. It also had such good bosses. Sniper Wolf and Raven were my favorites, but they all were a lot of fun. The ending was quite satisfying as well. Seeing Snake be...happy...was strange, but the end Naomi voiceover was worth it. That was the best voice acting I had ever heard. You could hear the vulnerability in her voice, which suprised me even for this series. All in all it was pretty great. I am so pumped for the MGS2 Fun Club after hearing Ocelot's traditional turncoat phone call at the end.

blitzchamp
04-11-2008, 10:49 PM
"Too late Snake!! Now die!!"
-Love it

SilentSnake
04-11-2008, 11:10 PM
Oh geez I nearly forgot to mention. The Policenauts footage when Snake first meets Otacon was a nice touch. I like how Kojima puts little nods to other entities in his games.

Guy
04-11-2008, 11:12 PM
Otacon's "Alone? Are you an otaku, too?" line always makes me laugh.

Kishi
04-11-2008, 11:24 PM
IT'S LIKE ONE OF MY JAPANESE ANIMES

alexb
04-12-2008, 12:10 AM
You know, that was a line that I was surprised they didn't touch up in The Twin Snakes. In the several years between the original and the remake, anime made huge inroads into American popular culture. It became a much more common word. So much so that the redundant phrasing really stuck out. It was a little like saying "I like watching things on my electric television."

Eusis
04-12-2008, 01:06 AM
Treatment of that stuff in media always amuses me. It was kind of awkward then too (though I admittedly was big into anime when the game came out), but it's just worse today. Anyways, that's the point I reached and... Now that I think about it, would there be any issues going from this to the version in the Collection? It could always be some somewhat updated version that makes older saves incompatible, so I'd like to know for sure.

Guy
04-12-2008, 01:13 AM
Pretty sure they're just the same exact CDs with a different label. So no.

Tomm Guycot
04-12-2008, 01:19 AM
Changing anything in the code would require a re-submission to Sony and possibly an ESRB submission.

Not worth the trouble.

blitzchamp
04-12-2008, 01:39 AM
"Where's O-tacon"

Yay I'm done.

Play time: 6:56:50

Eusis
04-12-2008, 03:34 AM
That's plenty of confirmation for me, thanks. I probably should've factored in that MGS3 kind of had a disc dropped without simply removing the online component. I was kind of paranoid after cases like GTA:VC where saves weren't cross compatible.

estragon
04-12-2008, 03:41 AM
This appears to be a misconception. Ocelot's post-credits twist reveals that Liquid was the superior clone, not that he had the dominant genes. It just turned out that the dominant genes were inferior.

No but me probably cares, but I beat it and you're right. They just say that Liquid was inferior (劣性), not that he had the recessive genes (劣性遺伝子). In Japanese it's vague enough (becasue "inferior" and the "recessive" in "recessive genes" are the same word) that they could have meant recessive genes, but since the English translation says otherwise and the localization is apparently very good, I guess I was wrong.

Nice to know.

Also, is it just me, or is the boss fight against the Metal Gear one of the easiest fights in the game when you know what to do? With Sniper Wolf or Raven it takes a decent amount of timing to win even you know what to do, but agains the Metal Gear you can (1) alternate between chaff grenades and stinger missles to get through stage one without taking a hit and then (2) take him out really quickly with stringers in stage two without even trying to dodge as long as you have a couple rations.

. . . at least on normal.

SilentSnake
04-12-2008, 07:27 AM
No but me probably cares, but I beat it and you're right. They just say that Liquid was inferior (劣性), not that he had the recessive genes (劣性遺伝子). In Japanese it's vague enough (becasue "inferior" and the "recessive" in "recessive genes" are the same word) that they could have meant recessive genes, but since the English translation says otherwise and the localization is apparently very good, I guess I was wrong.

Nice to know.

Also, is it just me, or is the boss fight against the Metal Gear one of the easiest fights in the game when you know what to do? With Sniper Wolf or Raven it takes a decent amount of timing to win even you know what to do, but agains the Metal Gear you can (1) alternate between chaff grenades and stinger missles to get through stage one without taking a hit and then (2) take him out really quickly with stringers in stage two without even trying to dodge as long as you have a couple rations.

. . . at least on normal.

That's funny, because I actually had trouble with that Metal Gear fight even when I knew what to do and had to get the timing down just right and exhaust plenty of Chaff and Stun Grenades. And even once I realized that I could avoid missiles by running towards Metal Gear, Rex decided to whip out the crotch laser and cut me down every step. Its also funny you said Raven takes some skill, because I found him really easy. Of course, I had a large supply of Claymores and C4 waiting to be used, but I also found the Stinger method to be easy. But I will definitely agree about the Sniper Wolf battle. That was intense and satisfying.

alexb
04-12-2008, 10:30 AM
No but me probably cares, but I beat it and you're right. They just say that Liquid was inferior (劣性), not that he had the recessive genes (劣性遺伝子). In Japanese it's vague enough (becasue "inferior" and the "recessive" in "recessive genes" are the same word) that they could have meant recessive genes, but since the English translation says otherwise and the localization is apparently very good, I guess I was wrong.

From what I understand, Jeremy Blaustein gave the game a somewhat heavy localization. It's not to say it was a bad translation at all, but it's possible that he could have tried to science it up without actually understanding science and in the process introduced more problems. I mean, it wouldn't be without precedent. He did changed the names and descriptions of items in the US localization for SoTN so that there were a ton of Lord of the Rings references that weren't in the original. Also, Kojima got angry enough at him that he wasn't the translator for part 2. Still, just speculation. But it does seem like an error introduced in translation.

Another reason to think this is that there weren't just two clones of Big Boss. There were 8. So there couldn't simply be a clone with all the recessive genes and another with all the dominant genes. There were at least three viable clones. But the Super Baby Method involved 8 clones, all presumably with different permutations of Big Boss's genes. You have to remember that the US government wouldn't have really known which genes were the good ones, so they would want to hedge their bets. It just turns out that Solid Snake had the genes that led to the worst performance in clinical studies about heart rate and reaction time and so on. Hence they would be "inferior." What gave him the edge is that he kept his mind open and (eventually) refused to follow the path the Patriots laid out for him. Or perhaps he slipped through the net because the Patriots were paying more attention to the more promising brothers. Who knows?

Tomm Guycot
04-12-2008, 10:48 AM
Blaustein TRIED to give MGS a heavy localization but Kojima was on his back the whole time. MGS in English is exactly what Kojima wanted it to be. If Blaustein tried to change things, Kojima changed them right back.

(This is also the case with Evangelion - thanks Gainax!)

So there aren't really any cases of mistranslation/understanding.

The way the Super Baby thing turned out in my mind is that in each of the 8 babies, they tried different combinations of genes. You know, maybe this baby has the inferior morality genes but the superior hand to hand fighting genes... this baby has superior running genes but inferior language genes.

It so happens the ones who survived were the one w/ all superior genes, the one with all inferior genes, and (we find out) the one who matched Big Boss perfectly.

Kishi
04-12-2008, 03:35 PM
But Liquid said the other six embryos were eliminated to induce strong fetal growth. That implies they were made to be fodder from the beginning, not that they were equal candidates for the project.

Also, Solidus wasn't one of the original eight. He's described in MGS2 as being created after Solid and Liquid, with them as his "predecessors."

alexb
04-12-2008, 03:45 PM
Strong fetal growth? I figured they would put one per surrogate mother. It'd be dumb to chance it with twins if you didn't have to.

Kishi
04-12-2008, 03:52 PM
LIQUID: They fertilized an egg with one of Father's cells, and then let it divide into eight clone babies. Then they transferred the clones to someone's uterus and later intentionally aborted six of the fetuses to encourage strong fetal growth... You and I were originally octuplets.

SNAKE: Octuplets...

LIQUID: Yes. The other six of our brothers were sacrificed to make us. We were accomplices in murder before the day we were even born! So it was you and I. Two fertilized eggs with exactly the same DNA. But...they weren't finished yet.

(Liquid = PRO-LIFE 4 LYFE)

Adrenaline
04-12-2008, 04:04 PM
"Strong fetal growth"? None of this makes any damn sense.

Dizzy
04-12-2008, 04:19 PM
Question:

What the hell does Ocelot say when you shoot Baker before the fight? You hear Baker give his orgasmic groans, but then you hear Ocelot say something as well. It almost sounds like "Why aren't you fighting yet?" or "Why are you shooting yet?" or something. It's very perplexing and it makes me want to string together mass amounts of conspiracy theories that will take over my life.

I also think it's funny when you kill Baker, Colonel says "You idiot!"

SilentSnake
04-14-2008, 08:57 PM
I gotta say that, while the unlimited ammo bandana is a nice convinience, it isn't nearly as great within the context of this game. In this game, running and gunning is a good way of getting yourself killed, so all the bandana means is that you don't have to run to get a box of ammo during a boss. I'd much rather have a cool piece of the game itself such as the Patriot from MGS3. Also, the second playthrough option always puts me in a quandry: do I play through with the new goodies, or do I start a new game on a higher difficulty?

Add to Queue's VsRobot
04-15-2008, 01:51 AM
Finished Metal Gear Solid 3 on Sunday (which was long overdue -- I started it when TT ran the fun club for it!) -- and now I've been playing MGS1 for about 3 hours. It's more or less my first playthrough. I'm totally in love with it. The digital controls feel really great after fighting MGS3's controls so much (goddamnit I want to put the gun AWAY not shoot it and give away my position!) and the simplistic (in comparison) gameplay is incredibly fun. I'm up to the boss fight with Cyborg Ninja and he is kicking my ass. I had him down to a sliver and then he kicked my face in . I decided to try again tomorrow.

Calorie Mate
04-15-2008, 04:52 PM
I've never been more proud of you, Mr. VsRobot.

Dizzy
04-15-2008, 05:08 PM
I can't believe this. No one has answered my question. How upsetting! I thought a came to place where MGS fans joined together to wax lovingly about their favorite game, discuss its infinite joys, and answer any questions that might be eating away at our minds.

Apparently not.

Instead some random person just comes in here, claims to play the game and gets a pat on the back. Yet I, someone who has contributed considerable material to the thread, is ignored. Like some second-rate citizen. Is that what I am? A second-rate citizen? I thought we were all equal, given the same opportunities. All I'm asking is what I've asked before, and I expect an answer. No I will not use Google (http://www.fuckinggoogleit.com/). Google is not my friend because it does not share the same passion, the same obsession with MGS. You guys did, and I thought you were all my friends... but I guess not.

I just... ugh. I don't know.

Add to Queue's VsRobot
04-15-2008, 05:48 PM
So, uh, ANYWAY.

I missed picking up the thermal goggles and now Psycho Mantis is kicking my ass. I can get all the way to the part where he tries to make Meryl commit suicide but once he starts disappearing and throwing stuff at me I'm done. I guess I should have been using a FAQ from the beginning -- don't know if I should keep trying to defeat him without this item or if I should try backtracking. I don't even know if that's possible. :( :( :(

Eusis
04-15-2008, 05:53 PM
I actually never used the Thermal Goggles, I just did the whole controller switch thing and beat him with the SOCOM then the FAMAS in the end.

Dizzy: Your question most likely wasn't answered because no one else cared to shoot him.

Crested Penguin
04-15-2008, 07:02 PM
As long as you're using your "other mind," it's pretty easy to hit Mantis without thermal goggles. He pops up in a few predictable locations and you can just spray some FAMAS rounds in that direction and peg him.

Now that I think about it, I've only done the fight once with the goggles, and it almost felt like cheating. Same with Cyborg Ninja.

I'm pretty sure you can get through the whole game without the goggles, they just make a few segments considerably easier, especially any time you are sniping.

Add to Queue's VsRobot
04-15-2008, 10:04 PM
Well, Psycho Mantis has been defeated. It only took me about 15 tries, too!! Wait, that's nothing to be proud of. :(

Kolbe
04-15-2008, 10:22 PM
(Not) totally unrelated: I just finished Portable Ops.

Thanks. You can go on with your discussion now.

Kishi
04-15-2008, 10:24 PM
I just finished Portable Ops.

Congratulations. You're free.

Rosencrantz
04-16-2008, 02:56 AM
(Not) totally unrelated: I just finished Portable Ops.

Thanks. You can go on with your discussion now.

I liked the ending, especially the part where the psychic tells Big Boss that both visions were true: he would defeat Metal Gear, but he would later use Metal Gear to threaten the world, and he would be killed by his son(s).

Calling to the Night (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_b7uiBr5PY) was really nice, too.

mopinks
04-16-2008, 06:09 PM
I'm still peeved about the full version of Calling to the Night making it into Brawl when we only got the stupid instrumental version of Snake Eater.

crime against humanity!

Alastor
04-16-2008, 06:24 PM
I was pretty bummed that MGS2's intro theme didn't make it in.

This was probably mentioned earlier, but why did the voice actors (minus David Hayter and Doug Stone) use pseudonyms?

Kishi
04-16-2008, 06:27 PM
MGS1 was a non-union project. Working on one of those will get you in trouble with the union (naturally), so pseudonyms are commonly used.

Best pseudonym in MGS1: Greg Eagles as "George Byrd."

Mr. Sensible
04-16-2008, 06:35 PM
Non-union project, eh? Do game dev houses still do this much?

Jeanie
04-16-2008, 08:08 PM
MGS1 was a non-union project. Working on one of those will get you in trouble with the union (naturally), so pseudonyms are commonly used.

Best pseudonym in MGS1: Greg Eagles as "George Byrd."

I thought I heard somewhere that the Actors Guild (which covers voice work) will only allow so many jobs under your registered name and rather than use one of those precious jobs on something as unimportant as a video game, the majority of the actors used pseudonyms.

Edit: According to Wikipedia, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metal_Gear_Solid_characters) "Most of the original American voice cast were initially credited under pseudonyms since they did not know if the project was supported by the Screen Actors Guild or not"

Dizzy
04-16-2008, 08:53 PM
MGS1 was a non-union project. Working on one of those will get you in trouble with the union (naturally), so pseudonyms are commonly used.

Best pseudonym in MGS1: Greg Eagles as "George Byrd."

That explains Vulcan Raven's voice actor: Chris Farley!

I'm not kidding. Although I am recalling it from memory.

Adrenaline
04-16-2008, 10:01 PM
Calling to the Night (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_b7uiBr5PY) was really nice, too.

Wow, the part where he kicks up the sniper rifle and spins with it for no reason makes me even ANGRIER at the remake I've never played.

DeeMer
04-16-2008, 10:03 PM
MGS1 was a non-union project. Working on one of those will get you in trouble with the union (naturally), so pseudonyms are commonly used.



Did you ever notice that none of the NIS strategy games have credits for the English voices? Same reason.

* Except La Pucelle. Different publisher.

Crested Penguin
04-17-2008, 01:33 PM
Did you ever notice that none of the NIS strategy games have credits for the English voices? Same reason.

* Except La Pucelle. Different publisher.

That's a shame, I like voice actor trivia for some reason. For instance, I just found out that the guy that did Mid-boss also voiced the prinnies.

Eusis
04-19-2008, 10:35 PM
I'm stuck at the torture sequence. Had it not been for MGS4 I wouldn't worry, but thanks to that I'm trying to survive it, and I just can't keep up. Any button mashing tips? I'm on Normal by the way.

Add to Queue's VsRobot
04-19-2008, 11:32 PM
For me, I had to turn off the vibration. Once I did that, it was pretty easy to get past.

Of course, this was after I lost about an hour and a half of progress because of the "no continues if you die during torture" clause I did not know about.

Kishi
04-19-2008, 11:40 PM
How could you not know? Ocelot takes the trouble of breaking the fourth wall just to directly inform you.

Anyway, it's all about applying the minimum required pressure to qualify as a single "press" and trading the unused effort for speed. As for how you do that, there are a variety of techniques. A popular one is to rub the back of a spoon over the button; another is to vibrate your hand such that your finger moves on and off the button faster than you can consciously press it. You'll have to experiment to find out what works best for you.

Personally, I eventually decided it wasn't worth the trouble (especially on higher difficulties) and just got a turbo controller. This also leads to the fun scenario where you can outlast the torture until Ocelot runs out of things to say to you, at which point the Ninja just busts you out of the cell without you having to trick the guard.

Merus
04-20-2008, 06:35 AM
I seem to recall actually button mashing the entire sequence.

estragon
04-20-2008, 07:24 AM
Any button mashing tips?

It sounds like you're hitting the button too slowly. Have you tried hitting it faster?

. . . .

But seriously, Kishi is right. Try less force, more speed. You don't need to hit it so hard. Try to get the highest number of presses with the least possible thumb movement.

Also, try to start pressing a little before it starts and keep going a little after it ends. The window of pressing is a little longer than you might assume, and an extra sliver or two of life bar might be enough to get you through this sequence.

Makkara
04-20-2008, 07:31 AM
There's a special technique I use for button mashing. I hold the controller between my feet, and then I pound the button with both my index fingers.

djSyndrome
04-20-2008, 07:35 AM
Use a IIDX controller (http://www.ncsxshop.com/images/products/large/0704/bmdxshop.jpg).

No, I'm not kidding. Works great.

mopinks
04-20-2008, 07:59 AM
that's some insidious Konami cross-promotion!

does a Pop'n controller work just as well? 'cause that's all I got.

djSyndrome
04-20-2008, 08:03 AM
that's some insidious Konami cross-promotion!

does a Pop'n controller work just as well? 'cause that's all I got.

Don't see why not; IIRC it maps all four face buttons.

Parish
04-20-2008, 09:53 AM
Non-union project, eh? Do game dev houses still do this much?
Kojima Pro definitely doesn't. The main hang-up for bringing over Metal Gear Solid 2: Digital Graphic Novel is dealing with the hassles and expenses of SAG rules if they want all the dialogue from MGS and MGS2 re-recorded.