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Brickroad
04-25-2008, 03:01 PM
The images in this thread are broken. Please check out the HTML version here (http://www.scibbe.com/stash/lpff1).

Hey guys, it's time for me to replay the original Final Fantasy. The "create your own parties" thread got me jonesin' for it.

This time, I'm going to let you all play the game vicariously through me, and keep a log of my adventure, like they do in the forums at some other website. Either it'll be fun and entertaining and will get a lot of people talking about FF1, or it'll be a nightmare where I am cruelly and mercilessly subjected to the most asinine and/or impossible playstyles imaginable.

First order of business: which version to play? I have the NES version and the GBA version. I'm eager to get started tonight.

djSyndrome
04-25-2008, 03:03 PM
First order of business: which version to play? I have the NES version and the GBA version. I'm eager to get started tonight.

Depends. How quickly would you like your 99 potions?

JdG
04-25-2008, 03:04 PM
NES, it's really an adventure that way, the GBA version sucks and it's too easy, there would be no point in keeping a log about it.

MCBanjoMike
04-25-2008, 03:06 PM
First order of business: which version to play? I have the NES version and the GBA version. I'm eager to get started tonight.

Man, is that even a question? NES version with the sound off - that menu noise will drive a man to kill. But yeah, the GBA version is just dull - I played it about 2 years ago and just couldn't enjoy it.

ringworm
04-25-2008, 03:09 PM
Yeah, the only true version is the NES version.

Thinaran
04-25-2008, 03:09 PM
Play the emulated NES edition, for easy screenshottin'.

Falselogic
04-25-2008, 03:12 PM
I have both but it isn't clear what the diffs are between the two? Anyone want to explain?

If you do the GBA one you can play it all over and such which will make it go faster which means you'll post more here and we'll follow you more closely...

If it's broken though...

Falselogic
04-25-2008, 03:14 PM
Play the emulated NES edition, for easy screenshottin'.

not a bad idea! Can we (or Gamespite) get in trouble for endorsing emulation?

MCBanjoMike
04-25-2008, 03:15 PM
The GBA version dumbed the difficulty down too much, meaning that there's not a lot of strategy or challenge involved. I suppose that means less grinding, too, but it's not like the game is particularly long no matter how you slice it.

Brick, do an all Black Mage* run! Do it for me!


*I keep typing Black Mange by mistake, which I find hilarious.

Reluctant Hero
04-25-2008, 03:16 PM
Damn it! this is going to make me buy that PSP version I've been avoiding...

TheSL
04-25-2008, 03:17 PM
NES. Or if you're feeling really masochistic you could play through the Japanese MSX version through emulation.

Do we post party suggestions here too? I put my vote in for at least one thief, if only because he becomes a ninja. Fuck it, do a whole clan of ninjas.

Zef
04-25-2008, 03:17 PM
Man, is that even a question? NES version with the sound off - that menu noise will drive a man to kill. But yeah, the GBA version is just dull - I played it about 2 years ago and just couldn't enjoy it.

The original Menu Screen music shows up constantly in my dreams whenever I'm gravely ill. That's not a good sign.

I think I convinced myself I liked the FF1&2 games for the GBA, back when I was playing them. But I think back to FF1, and try to come up with a justification for it, and I'm coming up short. Even the bonus dungeons were kinda plodding and tedious. I did enjoy the updated visuals and music, though.

Oh, wait, there is one thing. I certainly enjoyed not running into a party of nine Sorcerers (Mindflayers) after beating Tiamat in the Temple of Fiends, and therefore not being instantly paralized and instantly killed by them.

If you play the NES version, you must name your Fighter and Thief DIRK and TARK. That's what I named them when I was 11.

Falselogic
04-25-2008, 03:17 PM
NES. Or if you're feeling really masochistic you could play through the Japanese MSX version through emulation.

Do we post party suggestions here too? I put my vote in for at least one thief, if only because he becomes a ninja.

I'm guessing that's the next order of business after Brick decides how he is going to play it

I'm going for the traditional fighter, theif, wht mage, blk mage party... or is that too boring? If so an all red mage party!

Ample Vigour
04-25-2008, 03:19 PM
NES!

This makes me want to dig out my Nintendo Power strategy guide.

Reluctant Hero
04-25-2008, 03:23 PM
NES!

This makes me want to dig out my Nintendo Power strategy guide.

Yes! I have that guide! But guys, I can't go back to the Nes version when I know how pretty the PSP version is...

Ample Vigour
04-25-2008, 03:24 PM
Yes! I have that guide! But guys, I can't go back to the Nes version when I know how pretty the PSP version is...

But is the gameplay the same?

TheSL
04-25-2008, 03:24 PM
Yes! I have that guide! But guys, I can't go back to the Nes version when I know how pretty the PSP version is...

Best compromise is the PS1 version, then. Pretty visuals, not all broken gameplay-wise.

Reluctant Hero
04-25-2008, 03:26 PM
Best compromise is the PS1 version, then. Pretty visuals, not all broken gameplay-wise.

And I could play it through Remote Play...

Tomm Guycot
04-25-2008, 03:27 PM
Best compromise is the PS1 version, then. Pretty visuals, not all broken gameplay-wise.

Only if you play on Hard.

"Normal" (or is it Easy) is the same broken version they used on GBA.

Brickroad
04-25-2008, 03:30 PM
Looks like the NESes have it. That's good, because my last three replays have been on DoS.

I'd rather play it on the console if possible. I do have an A/V-in thing for my computer that I can rig up, but playing it in my computer chair is not desireable. But I DID get paid today -- think I can swing by Radio Shack and buy some kind of A/V splitter to run it to both my TV and my computer? That way I can play in comfort, but jump up and screenshot it when something cool happens.

If that turns out to not be feasible but you cats really want the screenshots, well... ARRRRRR matey. I'll take one for the team.

Since I'm playing the NES version, I shall from here on out use the NES terminology exclusively.

Sounds like two party suggestions are Bl.MAGE x4 and NINJA x4. These were actually my two most recent plays! (Well, actually THIEF x4, I wanted to clear all the bonus dungeons without any magic.) I've never done either on the NES though.

Before we decide what party I play and what their names are, we'll have to decide how I pick from amongst all the suggestions. I've only got four slots after all. Ideas? I think the fact that I'll end up with at least one Light Warrior named TOMM is pretty much a foregone conclusion.

Ample Vigour
04-25-2008, 03:32 PM
What about 4x Red Mage? That's the party my buddies and I used back in the day.

Falselogic
04-25-2008, 03:33 PM
What about 4x Red Mage? That's the party my buddies and I used back in the day.

I second this

Reluctant Hero
04-25-2008, 03:33 PM
Only if you play on Hard.

"Normal" (or is it Easy) is the same broken version they used on GBA.

My only argument for the PSP version is that it will be easy for me to play it at work. There is no Wi-Fi access in my office, so all my FF game play woud be confined to my home.

djSyndrome
04-25-2008, 03:34 PM
Run your playthrough on Justin.TV.

or niconico.

Dampe
04-25-2008, 03:34 PM
How about 3 Red Mages and 1 Fighter - would that work?

I never played FF1 so feel free to discard my suggestion.

Ample Vigour
04-25-2008, 03:36 PM
How about 3 Red Mages and 1 Fighter - would that work?

I never played FF1 so feel free to discard my suggestion.

If it's a party, someone has done a run with it. (Which is to say no suggestion is impossible.)

Octopus Prime
04-25-2008, 03:36 PM
I can't recall, so it might be different for the NES version, but I always found that the Black Mage was pretty crummy by the end game, since attack magic amounted to little more then wagging an admonishing finger at the enemies (mine was seriously doing more damage with a physical attack then he was with Flare).

Consequently, I go for Fighter, White Mage, Red Mage and Thief. Also, the Thief is always called Rob. It's puns like that that make me want to go on.

Brickroad
04-25-2008, 03:40 PM
If it's a party, someone has done a run with it. (Which is to say no suggestion is impossible.)

For the record the only run I've ever been unsuccessful with is solo THIEF. Until ASTOS the run is just a harder version of solo FIGHTER, but THIEF simply cannot do enough damage to ASTOS before he gets a RUB spell off. Grinding levels isn't even a serious option because the monsters start running from you after you get upwards of L30.

It is possible with insane amounts of luck (you need to get enough critical hits to kill ASTOS while evading his RUB spell) but I didn't have the patience to push through it. I have completed the other solo runs though, after LICH they are all pretty much the same.

Falselogic
04-25-2008, 03:41 PM
3 thiefs and a wht mage?

Ample Vigour
04-25-2008, 03:49 PM
I have completed the other solo runs though, after LICH they are all pretty much the same.

Holy shit dude this game is like your martial art.

Is there a tipping point in a solo game where it becomes easier?

Mazian
04-25-2008, 03:55 PM
No love for the black belt? After the class change they become unstoppable forces of nature. Even a top-equipped Knight can't compete against their 75-hit combos.

Gredlen
04-25-2008, 03:58 PM
Four White Mages.
Or one.

MCBanjoMike
04-25-2008, 04:33 PM
Before we decide what party I play and what their names are, we'll have to decide how I pick from amongst all the suggestions. I've only got four slots after all. Ideas? I think the fact that I'll end up with at least one Light Warrior named TOMM is pretty much a foregone conclusion.

Mike is a four-letter name. I'm just saying.

And I would totally be a Black Mage in real life.

Brickroad
04-25-2008, 04:45 PM
Holy shit dude this game is like your martial art.

Is there a tipping point in a solo game where it becomes easier?

FIGHTER, RedMAGE and Wh.MAGE are never really difficult. The first two have good damage output and are pretty survivable with their good armor. Solo RedMAGE is actually pretty close to playing DQ1, except you level a lot faster.

Wh.MAGE starts with RUSE, which wins the game. RUSE stacks as much as you care to cast it, and after a few layers you can't be hurt by physical attacks anymore, and most monsters rely on physical attacks. Once the boss can't hit you, you kill him a couple HP at a time. This is actually a strategy that's useful in every solo game, once you find the Defense sword in the waterfall.

Bl.BELT has it rough early on because, while his HP is high, he can't wear good armor. His difficulty peaks at LICH. FIGHTER can survive LICH's attacks while dealing decent damage; Bl.BELT deals decent damage but can't survive the attacks. RedMAGE, Bl.MAGE and Wh.MAGE all have magic to destroy him. Bl.BELT basically has to go in and hope he gets enough criticals in before LICH wastes him with spells. It takes a few tries. (I assume this fight would be even worse with a THIEF, but like I said, I've never gotten a THIEF past ASTOS. THIEF does get some decent weapons and armor after ASTOS though, so who knows.)

Bl.MAGE has the second-worst difficulty peak, next to THIEF. Believe it or not it's the PIRATEs. They do nickel-and-dime damage, but Bl.MAGE only has a few HP and you have to fight nine of them. You can kill a PIRATE in one shot with magic, but you have to be on a high enough level to have at least nine spell charges (split between L1 and L2). Basically the fight goes down like this: every round you have to kill a PIRATE before that particular PIRATE has a chance to act. By the time you get them down to four or five left you start chugging HEAL potions every round until you get your HPs back up to a manageable level, then you finish them off. They can be SLEPed, but this tends to be losing game (you waste a turn to save yourself from a couple of attacks, but they wake up the next round anyway). After you get the ship you have access to FIR2, LIT2 and ICE2 after which the game is just gravy.

McDohl
04-25-2008, 04:55 PM
Wh.MAGE starts with RUSE, which wins the game. RUSE stacks as much as you care to cast it, and after a few layers you can't be hurt by physical attacks anymore, and most monsters rely on physical attacks. Once the boss can't hit you, you kill him a couple HP at a time. This is actually a strategy that's useful in every solo game, once you find the Defense sword in the waterfall.

As someone who's done a Wh.MAGE solo;

The real challenge here is patience.

TheSL
04-25-2008, 05:51 PM
If you need a name "SL" fits well under the character limit.

shivam
04-25-2008, 05:57 PM
on my most recent playthrough, i named my characters after their ff9 counterparts, so thief was ZIDA, Wh.Mage was GARN, Fighter was STEI, etc.

This, of course,was because i had played ff9 by renaming everyone by their class names, so vivi was BlkMage and so forth.

Zordran
04-25-2008, 06:39 PM
The last FF1 game that I played was four red mages named PRSH, SRKY, KHLR, and BNHT. (Why, yes, I do listen to podcasts on the ride back from college. Why do you ask?) I stalled out around Gurgu Volcano and played through Mario 3 and World instead. :D

DrSenbei
04-25-2008, 06:52 PM
Favorite party for sheer ass-kicking: 3 Fighters and a Red Mage stab stab stab stab
Favorite party for sheer wonkyness: 2 Red Mage, 1 Black Mage, 1 White Mage

I don't think I ever used Thiefs or Blackbelts, they just suck too much.

Kishi
04-25-2008, 06:54 PM
Only if you play on Hard.

"Normal" (or is it Easy) is the same broken version they used on GBA.

Normal on PlayStation is...normal. I recall they even increased the HP of some of the later bosses. And even Easy doesn't throw out the original MP system like the GBA port does. Also, it's beautiful. Best version of the game by far.

SpoonyGundam
04-25-2008, 10:21 PM
They actually increased boss HP in the GBA and PSP versions too. Well, for Chaos at least. My hasted, tempered Master couldn't one-shot him like I could in the PS1 version, so yeah.

I played through the PSP version about a week ago. I'll go ahead and say that the new dungeon for that version is one of the worst things I've ever experienced. It's far, far worse than the already horrible GBA version dungeons.

dwolfe
04-25-2008, 10:36 PM
I always ran fighter, black belt/thief, red/black mage, white mage.

Keep at least one white mage for EXIT.

Kishi
04-25-2008, 10:40 PM
They actually increased boss HP in the GBA and PSP versions too. Well, for Chaos at least.

Yeah, Chaos has about ten times his original HP in the GBA/PSP port, but he's still easier than in previous versions because...well, everything is.

Reluctant Hero
04-25-2008, 10:45 PM
Ugh... playing FF Origins on the PSP via Remote Play is lag-stastic. I'll wait for Gamefly to ship me a copy of FF for the PSP.

Torgo
04-25-2008, 11:55 PM
What about 4x Red Mage? That's the party my buddies and I used back in the day.
It's the ultimate party to maximize time spent money grinding!

arkfullofsorrow
04-26-2008, 12:54 AM
FF1... I could go on about this one for ages.

We're talking about Party suggestions, no? I'd probably do FI/BB/RM/WM, for a newbie, although my personal favorite for a speed game is FI/FI/RM/RM (beat the NES version in under six hours in one sitting with that one). Black Mages are pretty bad since basically the only spells they can learn that the Red Mage can't are the crappy insta-kill ones people rarely use. Avoid them unless you really like the idea of casting a spell called NUKE. Attack magic in FFI is underwhelming anyways. The thief just plain sucks.

Alixsar
04-26-2008, 01:09 AM
Before we decide what party I play and what their names are, we'll have to decide how I pick from amongst all the suggestions. I've only got four slots after all. Ideas? I think the fact that I'll end up with at least one Light Warrior named TOMM is pretty much a foregone conclusion.

Alex (or Alix) is four letters, and Red Mages are The Shit™. Just saying.

I have the PSX/GBA versions readily available, and I've been working off-and-on on a Fighter/Thief/Red Mage/Black Mage playthrough of the GBA game for a while now. I'm at the last dungeon, but I've never bothered to finish it since I've beaten FFI something like seven times. I guess this is as good a reason as any to do it.

Brickroad
04-26-2008, 10:46 AM
Okay, I did an unofficial tally (with some guesswork as to what were actual suggestions and what were just "this was my favorite guy from back in the day") and here are the results:

FIGHTER - 7
Bl.BELT - 1
THIEF - 10
Wh.MAGE - 9
Bl.MAGE - 7
RedMAGE - 16
(dead) - 3

Man, you guys really dig RedMAGEs. Anyway I ran the data through a NASA supercomputer, and, without further ado, I give you... your LIGHT WARRIORS!

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-1.png

Alright, these clowns need names. In typical NES FF1 fashion, names can be no more than four letters and should be in all caps. I'll have a crack team of helpful monkey butlers assist me in picking the best (or worst) suggestions and run with them.

djSyndrome
04-26-2008, 10:55 AM
SLID
LQID
SLDS
NKED

Red Hedgehog
04-26-2008, 11:46 AM
MIN, MAX, ROB, and HEAL.

Balrog
04-26-2008, 11:50 AM
ADAM
ADAM
ADAM
ADAM

Thinaran
04-26-2008, 11:51 AM
TOMM, MATE, ROB, and RUB.

Ample Vigour
04-26-2008, 12:47 PM
MIN, MAX, ROB, and HEAL.

Phat
04-26-2008, 01:00 PM
PHAT
SKUB
SKUB
MEAT

ringworm
04-26-2008, 01:14 PM
They should all have female names. Because there aren't enough female protagonists in video games.

Alixsar
04-26-2008, 01:21 PM
Alright, these clowns need names. In typical NES FF1 fashion, names can be no more than four letters and should be in all caps. I'll have a crack team of helpful monkey butlers assist me in picking the best (or worst) suggestions and run with them.

Well, I assume you want to put yourself in the game, and you mentioned Tomm's name earlier, so...

ROAD, TOMM, ALIX (for one of the RDMs) and FROG. I'd be better if TOAST could fit, but it can't. Damn NES.

MCBanjoMike
04-26-2008, 01:40 PM
ADAM
ADAM
ADAM
ADAM

When I was a kid, I played this game with my best friend and we each got two characters. He named his Black Belt AEF, which were his initials, and the White Mage SAL, because we thought he was a she (and so did all of you, admit it). I named both of my characters MIKE. Eventually this turned out to be a bit confusing, but I don't regret it.

BEAT
04-26-2008, 01:55 PM
Damn it! this is going to make me buy that PSP version I've been avoiding...There is no reason to do that.

And there never will be.

EDIT:
Also
HURT
KILL
MAIM
JIM

Zen
04-26-2008, 02:14 PM
CARP
SOLE
COD
TUNA

Brickroad
04-26-2008, 02:31 PM
I was about to call it right after djSyndrome's first response, because it is the perfect suggestion. In the end I decided to combine the MGS motif with ringworm's suggestion to use a female name.

Beat had some good suggestions, so I picked his best one.

I named the THIEF ADAM because, as well all know, Adam stole my heart long ago. *wistful sigh*

Wh.MAGEs are weird because most FF1 players consider them borderline required, but after you learn every goddamn thing about the game they're pretty much completely useless. This leads to a lot of (sometimes heated) pro/anti Wh.MAGE debates, so I think my Wh.MAGE's name is particularly fitting.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-2.png

Some quick notes for FF1 newbs. Those four gray things are the ORBs, which I will be lighting throughout the course of my adventure. FF1 doesn't use traditional MP like later FF games do; instead each level of spell has charges. There are two schools of magic (white/black), eight levels per school, and four spells per level. Right now all my mages have two L1 charges. They replaced the spell charges system with standard MP in the Dawn of Souls remake, which is the number one reason the GBA version is so easy.

I guess this is where the Let's Play! begins in earnest, so time to get down to business!

Next: I, Garland, will knock you all down!

Ruik
04-26-2008, 02:50 PM
I don't think he meant for "edit" to be a name suggestion, but its a great name despite/because of that.

Odin
04-26-2008, 03:51 PM
Damn, I went to bed and missed the whole name-the-party section! I didn't feel qualified to suggest a party since I've only ever beaten it three times - Fighter/Black Belt/Wh.Mage/Bl.Mage on the PSX and GBA, and 4 White Wizards on the Famicom (time to buy another 700-yen cartridge!).

HOWEVER, on my 4 White Mage/Wizard run, fueled by a week of Contra 4, my party was (English approximation since I had kana):
BILL
LNCE
SCOR
VIPR

I dropped Mad Dog because in Japanese I kept thinking "window dog" and that just didn't sound right... so I tossed in Black Viper instead. Fun fact: Viper wound up getting trashed the most and was half a level behind everyone else at the end game. Serves him right.

dj clearly had the best names. I might have to name my next party that.

Balrog
04-26-2008, 04:27 PM
I named the THIEF ADAM because, as well all know, Adam stole my heart long ago. *wistful sigh*


Everything I do, I do it for you. ;__;

Eirikr
04-26-2008, 05:54 PM
I would mind joining in. I have access to the MSX version and my friend's actual MSX, so I can enjoy the extremely slow scrolling all to myself. At least the music is 10x better than the NES version as a consolation prize.

Brickroad
04-26-2008, 07:49 PM
The first adventure in FF1 is rescuing the princess of Coneria from the evil villain Garland.

Except no, that's a lie. The real first adventure in FF1 is figuring out how to outfit your team with a paltry 400 GOLD.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-3.png
First up, weapons. The best weapon Coneria has is the Rapier, so that's one each for BOSS, EDIT and ADAM. The best thing SKUB can use from here is the Iron Hammer, but for all the good a weapon will do a Wh.MAGE I might as well spend that 10 GOLD on last week's lottery numbers.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-5.png
Armor is really only super-important for the people in your top two slots, since combined they will be taking 75% of the hits. Because I need 200 GOLD left over for magic, the choices are basically to either spend 160 GOLD on two sets of Chain Armor, or 150 GOLD on three sets of Wooden Armor (which I would have to upgrade for my RedMAGEs later anyway). For now ADAM and SKUB are going to have to do without.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-6.png
The fastest way to kill GARLAND is to hit him with L1 black magic, and my RedMAGEs are happy to oblige. Buying LIT for each of them gives me four blasts of magic to ruin GARLAND's shit. There's a reason to buy LIT over FIRE, but I'll let you wallow in suspense about why.

Nuts to that, we have 10 GOLD left. Time for a night on the town!

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-7.png
I think this speaks for itself.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-8.png
I considered going through the castle and speaking to all the plot-relevant NPCs, most of which just beg me to rescue the princess, but that would have bored me to tears and I was eager to get straight to the GARLAND-whacking. I do feel the need to point out the Invisible Man, though. We discovered him when we were little kids and always figured he was just a very concerned ghost chiding us about being tardy. "The Princess was looking for you! But you were late and she got kidnapped instead! Great job guys! Some LIGHT WARRIORs you are!"

Years later I looked into it and it turns out there is a boring technical reason why this particular NPC sprite doesn't show up. That kind of destroyed the whole mystique of the Invisible Man, though, and I much prefer my original haunting theory.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-9.png
Anyway, I'm supposed to be restoring the power of the ORBs. What the hell am I doing wandering about looking for lost princesses? It's simple: the king is a stingy rat who refuses to build a bridge and aid the heroes responsible for saving the world unless they first donate their infinitely valuable time for his own selfish concerns.

The absence of a bridge, of course, begs the question as to how the LIGHT WARRIORs got to Coneria in the first place. The answer might surprise you: science.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-10.png
Behold, the lowly IMP. Lesser players might slaughter a hundred of these poor bastards in pursuit of glorious EXP and GOLD prior to their assault on GARLAND, but as I said before, grinding is for chumps and I'm not having any of it.

These guys unwisely got in between me and the Temple of the Fiends, though, so their lives are forfeit. Their fallen tears tasted like delicious candy.

Brickroad
04-26-2008, 07:50 PM
http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-11.png
At last, the Temple of the Fiends! No doubt GARLAND is hiding deep within, at the end of a long and arduous journey through endless winding corridors and dark, trap-filled halls...

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-12.png
...or not.

Of particular note here is that this line belongs in the Timeless RPG Lexicon along with "You spoony bard!", "Son of a submariner!" and "A slime draws near! Command?"

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-13.png
GARLAND's got right around 100 HP, and each of these LIT spells will get him for about 30. He's easily killable with any four-man group, even at L1, making him the most anti-climactic first boss in any RPG ever. If you beef yourself up to L3 like the strategy guides suggested, he's barely a speed bump.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-15.png
BOSS's Chain Armor protected her from every single one of GARLAND's attacks, leaving everyone else unscathed. I have no way to heal myself yet, but If there were more dungeon ahead of me I could swap BOSS down into the third position where she would be almost completely safe. Re-arranging the party to evenly distribute the damage makes healing a secondary concern (and a distant second at that). I'll be swapping BOSS, EDIT and ADAM around a lot as I progress, and save a ton of GOLD in the process on all the HEAL potions I'm not using.

ALso, hurrah! First level up! When we were kids it was of utmost importance to keep all of our guys evenly leveled, so we would reset if any of them died. I'm not going to concern myself with that though, and if SKUB manages to eat the dirt I may not even revive him right away (or at all). Wh.MAGEs are dead weight, man.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-16.png
Finally.

Dawn of Souls has a cute little cutscene here of a bunch of Conerian dudes building the bridge. Back in 1990, though, we just had to take the king's word on faith.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-17.png
"And that's how Princess Sara, or Sara the Retarded as we call her, gave away a priceless Conerian heirloom to a band of wandering misfits and plunged our land into a dark age of famine and hard luck."

Most items you get in the game are used exactly once and then sit in your inventory chewing up space the rest of the game, and the LUTE is no exception. By the time I actually need this for something you will have forgotten how I got it.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-18.png
GARLAND was kind enough to donate a goodly amount of GOLD to my cause, enough for ADAM's Wooden Armor, two CURE spells and a stay at the INN. At L2, between EDIT and SKUB I have six shots of CURE which is enough to get me to the next town without having to worry about HEAL potions.

I don't recommend following the helpful INN lady's advice if you're playing on your PC. Anyway, saving my game here is important because I'm not going to use any savestates. (Did I mention I'm not using save states? Because I'm not.)

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-19.png
One bridge, as promised!

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-20.png
People blame Square for introducing all that cinematic nonsense into RPGs with FF7, but don't believe a word of it: they were trying to pull that shit even back in the old dinosaur days.

Next:Okay, you got me. Take my SHIP.

SpoonyGundam
04-26-2008, 08:01 PM
I considered going through the castle and speaking to all the plot-relevant NPCs, most of which just beg me to rescue the princess, but that would have bored me to tears and I was eager to get straight to the GARLAND-whacking. I do feel the need to point out the Invisible Man, though. We discovered him when we were little kids and always figured he was just a very concerned ghost chiding us about being tardy. "The Princess was looking for you! But you were late and she got kidnapped instead! Great job guys! Some LIGHT WARRIORs you are!"

Years later I looked into it and it turns out there is a boring technical reason why this particular NPC sprite doesn't show up. That kind of destroyed the whole mystique of the Invisible Man, though, and I much prefer my original haunting theory.

SPOILERS: The Invisible Man is actually an invisible woman.

Sanagi
04-26-2008, 08:08 PM
not a bad idea! Can we (or Gamespite) get in trouble for endorsing emulation?
You're reading Gamespite, the website that does not endorse the cooool crime of emulation.
NES!
This makes me want to dig out my Nintendo Power strategy guide.
The map is up on my wall to this day.

Torgo
04-26-2008, 08:32 PM
Armor is really only super-important for the people in your top two slots, since combined they will be taking 75% of the hits.
Is this... is this true? How does someone even figure that out?

Phat
04-26-2008, 08:38 PM
Man if you let SKUB eat shit I will be so angry at you

BEAT
04-26-2008, 08:43 PM
Beat had some good suggestions, so I picked his best one.I didn't actually mean edit as a suggestion. It's still completely awesome that you used it though.

Kishi
04-26-2008, 08:44 PM
http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-7.png
I think this speaks for itself.

But it's still not half as good as this:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/grokyou/ff1ordinarywell.png

shivam
04-26-2008, 08:48 PM
I know why LIT is important!
...but i'm not saying.

dosboot
04-26-2008, 08:48 PM
So many people love FF1 that I feel I must be doing it wrong. Potions don't sustain my party very long as the levels go up, while curing magic is even more limited. And mages start to take real severe beatings after a while. Against some nasty random battles my party can be killed outright if I'm just unlucky.

Do you guys go through each dungeon in one pass? Do you level up a bit, restock, and then charge straight to the boss? How often do you run?

Falselogic
04-26-2008, 09:43 PM
So many people love FF1 that I feel I must be doing it wrong. Potions don't sustain my party very long as the levels go up, while curing magic is even more limited. And mages start to take real severe beatings after a while. Against some nasty random battles my party can be killed outright if I'm just unlucky.

Do you guys go through each dungeon in one pass? Do you level up a bit, restock, and then charge straight to the boss? How often do you run?

The last time I played this game I was 10 or so... I'm sure Brick knows the guys seems to be some sort of FF avatar!

Eirikr
04-26-2008, 09:57 PM
Man, is the MSX version slow. Every step you take, the system has to process the next part of the map over. And loading times off the floppy disk with constant battles = not fun. They even switched the music in the Temple of Fiends! It plays the final dungeon music instead of the Underwater Temple theme, which is my favorite music in the game.

But, it sounds good at least, even if it's not the right track, and the graphics do look fairly nice. Garland has been knocked down.

Stiv
04-27-2008, 01:55 AM
Despite the fact that I've played this game like a zillion times I've never done a "challenge run", whether it was four white mages or a solo run or whatever. Way to make me want to do that when I already have enough shit on my plate, dude.

PS: This is awesome. Are you going to grind for Silver Swords, or is there a faster way to get the best weapons until the end of the game?

Ample Vigour
04-27-2008, 02:03 AM
The map is up on my wall to this day.

Good man.

I wonder how we will vote on the Tail question. I am also being swiftly won over by the capitalization of game TERMs.

Brickroad
04-27-2008, 03:11 AM
Is this... is this true? How does someone even figure that out?

Even if people hadn't hacked the ROM and poked around in the source code, I'm sure at some point they actually sat down and just kept track of how often each character was hit. It breaks down like this, though: front rank is targeted 50% of the time, second rank is targeted 25% of the time, and the back two ranks are targeted 12.5% each. Making the heroes take shifts in the top rank is a more effective method of mitigating damage than healing or spending thousands of GOLD on armor.

Do you guys go through each dungeon in one pass? Do you level up a bit, restock, and then charge straight to the boss? How often do you run?

Depends on the dungeon. Typically the only dungeon I make multiple trips into is the Marsh Cave, as we'll soon see.

I RUN a lot, but only from fights I know are either unwinnable or are not worth the effort. Early in the game anything that Poisons is not worth trying to kill, for example.

PS: This is awesome. Are you going to grind for Silver Swords, or is there a faster way to get the best weapons until the end of the game?

Grinding for Silver Swords is silly. They are awesome weapons, but they're 4000 GOLD a pop.

The only time I buy a Silver Sword is if I don't have any LIT2 casters in my party, and even then I'll only buy one. Once you get past ASTOS you find enough free swords to go around, and you don't need multiple Silver Swords to beat him. I'm not going to buy any at all this game.

On with the adventure!


http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-24.png
The next town is Pravoka, and just like Mr. Mohawk here says, there are PIRATEs afoot.

Say, we're in need of a SHIP. PIRATEs have SHIPs, right?

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-25.png
A+ for "scurvy dogs" and "landlubbers", but points off for the disappointing lack of "ye" and the very un-pirate-y name. I can't tell if he's wearing an appropriate amount of eyeliner or not from the tiny 16x16 pixel sprite, either.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-32.png
Even weaponless, SKUB can take out a PIRATE by himself in two hits. Their HP total is ridiculously low, and their attacks glance off EDIT's Chain Armor harmlessly. This fight is only tough in solo runs, and even then only for classes that can't use RUSE or Chain Armor. THIEFs, Bl.BELTs and Bl.MAGEs have to do a lot of grinding outside Pravoka before they get enough HP to survive the fight.

A quick aside about RUSE: it's damn near required in solo games (either as the spell or as the effect of the Defense sword), but completely worthless in regular teams. It only affects the caster, and since the only guy in my party who can cast it is going to spend the whole game in the back rank, I won't be getting any use out of it in this game. Like I said, my plan for survival is to spread the damage around the three people on my team who can handle it by giving them all shifts in the top rank.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-39.png
PIRATE EXP pushes my guys up to L3, giving me more HP to work with. The next important level is L6, when my RedMAGEs are able to cast L3 magic.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-40.png
I've wondered a lot about the actual nature of Bikke's "invasion" of Pravoka. Like, it seems to me that he and his boys sailed into port (or not, because his SHIP doesn't actually materialize until after it belongs to me) and the Pravokians just over-reacted. My pack of ruffians stroll into town, still high from their princess-saving adventure, and take the townsfolk at their word that well okay the PIRATEs are kinda just standing there at the moment but we're totally sure they're going to start raping and pillaging at any moment. Bikke talks big (he's got his image to consider you see) but he knows what the score is. Afterwards the Pravokians don't even run him out of town. I guess he becomes a model citizen after seeing his mates get butchered.

The SHIP storyline is also a really good indication of how RPGs used to be versus how they are now. Playing the game blindly, there's nothing to indicate that the player needs a SHIP, and nothing that points to getting one in this town. If this scenario popped up nowadays the heroes would have a long unskippable discussion about how they desperately need a ship, run a few fetch quests in town before overhearing someone talking about the PIRATEs, then come up with an elaborate scheme (probably involving a stealth minigame) to sneak aboard and take control of it somehow. Personally I prefered the old way: roll into town, beat up some chumps, sail away laughing. Also note: now that I have the SHIP I'm still not told what to do with it. It's "You have a SHIP now! Yay! Explore!" and not "You have your SHIP, now you can sail to the place you knew you needed to go!" Just feels like more of an adventure, you know?

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-41.png
Scimtars are pretty good early game weapons. This is ADAM's first big break; he lacks the black magic BOSS and EDIT take for granted, and he needs all the help he can get. I have enough for two, so I'll pick one up for BOSS too. I'll run a few errands and come back for EDIT's which will give me a respectable front line offense. There are better weapons available to buy, such as the Short Sword here in Pravoka and the brokenly good Silver Sword in Elfland, but the Scimtar has the best damage-to-price ratio. By the time I have enough cash flow to pick up nice things like that I will have already gotten equally good weapons out of treasure boxes, and pretty much all my upgrades from there on out will come from boxes as well. That's right! Once I get EDIT's Scimtar I am pretty much done buying weapons for the rest of the game!

Also in Pravoka is L2 magic, which is noteworthy for being almost completely pointless. ICE is good only in the sense that it's attack magic that doesn't use L1 spell charges (saves CUREs), but there's nothing particularly weak to ICE in my future and by the time I might consider using it I'll have access to ICE2. Actually, out of the 64 spells in the game, there are only a small handful that are ever worth casting.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-42.png
The other thing that's always creeped me out about Pravoka are these bizarre doorless buildings. They don't look like houses, exactly... maybe the whole town is actually some kind of internment camp? I get the unsettling feeling that maybe PIRATEs weren't this burg's biggest problem.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-43.png
Anyway, eat my wake, Pravoka! I've got a SHIP now and I'm not afraid to flaunt it! The sailing music is probably my favorite tune in the game, and as a kid I spent countless hours just sailing around the world checking out all the various nooks and crannies, fighting SHARKs and KYZOKUs, and pretty much just groovin'.

No time for groovin' now though, I've got errands to run. These ORBs just ain't gonna light themselves.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-45.png
Here's why we buy LIT over FIRE: sea monsters are weak to it, making the disposal of SHARKs and SAHAGs a lot easier. There are things in the game with a weakness to FIRE, too, but by the time I'm up against them I'll be able to cast FIR2, so there's no point in buying the L1 version.

In a solo game I'd be at a much higher level at this point, and if I'm using a RedMAGE or Bl.MAGE my next stop would be to buy LIT2, which lets me farm the ocean for GOLD and upgrade all my gear within a span of maybe twenty minutes. EDIT and BOSS have to share their hard-earned EXP with two other cats though, so they won't be making use of that godly spell for a little while yet.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-47.png
There are INNs in Pravoka and Elfland, but they are more expensive than good old Coneria. Every time I take the extra twelve seconds to sail to Coneria rather than staying at Elfland I save myself seventy GOLD. Cash is tight until I get the mystic KEY, so I'll pinch every penny I can get my mitts on. In fact, let's take a break and go treasure hunting!

Brickroad
04-27-2008, 03:15 AM
http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-50.png
Matoya's Cave belches up a HEAL and a PURE potion. PURE is an archaic form of Antidote; it cures Poison. Since there's a good chance of Poison in my future, getting the chests here saves me 75 GOLD later. As for all the skulls and brooms... dude, she's a witch. You just have to expect these things.

As you've probably guessed, my whole "grinding is for chumps" philosophy is actually bullshit. I just do my grinding while doing busywork exploration rather than run circles around the town. This little side-trip to the cave got me into enough fights to earn EDIT's Scimtar, for example, and the trip back to get the Scimtar gave me enough to afford BOSS's CURE spell.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-51.png
I love this little piece of Final Fantasy lore. In case you can't crack the code here, the broom is speaking backwards and is telling me how to bring up the overworld map. What I love best about it is that this is lauded as some kind of trick or secret in hint books, magazines, and cheat websites. "Pro Tip: Push B and Select to bring up the map! Advanced Technique: if your HP goes to zero, you die! Super Secret of the Week: if the red light on your Nintendo is off, press POWER so you can play Final Fantasy! (But this only works if that's the game in your Nintendo!)"

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-53.png
Here's a shot of the map, helpfully reminding me what game I'm playing.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-54.png
FF1 is the master of awesome abbreviations. We could never figure out whether GrIMP stood for "gray imp" or "great imp", but it didn't matter because we always just called them "grimps". It's more fun to just pronounce what's on the screen than to try and figure out what's going through the game's crazy head, and it only gets better when you get to monsters like the GrOGRE, ZomBULL and MudGOL. I admit I had a pretty major sad face moment when the PSX/GBA remakes came out and there were no space resctrictions forcing monsters into awesome compacted names, but dammit, there will always be room for GrIMPs in my heart.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-55.png
A second trip to the Temple of the Fiends yeilds this virtually useless piece of armor. It has a measly ABSORB of 1 (at the expense of 1% EVADE), so it's not something I'd want to buy, but "free" is a good companion to "virtually useless" and, besides, ADAM looks damn sexy in it.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-56.png
A hapless group of SAHAGs sucks down a big ol' can of LIT and bumps everyone up to L4.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-57.png
Now that I can get to the western half of the continent, I'll have to start dealing with ASPs and ARACHNIDs, both of which can Poison. In all the years I've been playing FF1 I don't think I've ever gotten to the Dwarf Cave and back without someone needing a PURE, so I'm glad I stole the free one from Matoya earlier.

(Don't worry, bitch is blind without her CRYSTAL, she'll never know I took it.)

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-59.png
Either because dwarves are naturally cheery and generous, or just because this one happens to be in an alcohol-induced stupor, nobody seems to mind that I'll walk out of here with 1025 GOLD. We'll come back here later to look around some more, but for now I'm just interested in petty theft.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-60.png
This little isthmus was actually the cause of a pretty nasty fight back in my noob days. See, later on I'll blow it up with TNT so I can sail my SHIP on through to lands unknown. When I was a lad I had a friend who maintained that the blotch of land was to narrow to walk across, while I held the opinion that there wasn't any reason why you couldn't. Of course we didn't even consider the possibility until we had already blown the canal open and were well on our way to fighting LICH. We bitched back and forth about it for days as we took turns leveling up until one day after school I sat down to play and someone had started a new game. My friend swore up and down the game just randomly erased itself, but his mom eventually gave him up: he started over to see whether or not the canal tile was walkable. No doubt that had he been right he would have lorded the fact over me, but as you can clearly see he was not right.

I handled the situation in the most mature way possible: I hit him with Volume C of our encylopedias (conveniently located near the NES, being the heavy object we used to hold down the button on controller 2 that grants immortality in Mega Man 3) and insisted that since we had to do all that work over again I get to pick out the names this time. I named our new Bl.BELT TINY.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-63.png
Well, I've got all the treasure I'm going to get, so it's time to step on up into Elfland. Believe it or not, the next segment of the game is the most difficult hurdle for most parties. In particular, my difficulty is that I'm still two levels shy of having the attack magic I need.

Next: 837 - 866

Kishi
04-27-2008, 03:37 AM
http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-42.png
The other thing that's always creeped me out about Pravoka are these bizarre doorless buildings. They don't look like houses, exactly... maybe the whole town is actually some kind of internment camp? I get the unsettling feeling that maybe PIRATEs weren't this burg's biggest problem.

They look like evidence of Bikke's unseen ransacking, actually.


http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-54.png
FF1 is the master of awesome abbreviations. We could never figure out whether GrIMP stood for "gray imp" or "great imp", but it didn't matter because we always just called them "grimps".

Other possibilities, courtesy of my friends:

Grape Imp
Groovy Imp

Merus
04-27-2008, 06:32 AM
Even if people hadn't hacked the ROM and poked around in the source code, I'm sure at some point they actually sat down and just kept track of how often each character was hit. It breaks down like this, though: front rank is targeted 50% of the time, second rank is targeted 25% of the time, and the back two ranks are targeted 12.5% each.

I noticed that the guys in front were getting the lion's share of the damage. I figured their armor had some kind of guard stat that stopped damage getting through.

Man, the Marsh Cave is a bitch. Good luck with that, man.

Odin
04-27-2008, 06:54 AM
Just wanted to say that I am REALLY enjoying this thread so far, and good luck with the Marsh Cave!

Octopus Prime
04-27-2008, 07:47 AM
Reading about you playing the game is more entertaining then playing the game itself.

How about that!

Reluctant Hero
04-27-2008, 08:26 AM
I agree with Odin and Prime Brickroad, your awesome!

Phat
04-27-2008, 08:39 AM
Brick your writeups are making me take off my shirt right now

breathe in my scent

Zef
04-27-2008, 10:48 AM
I paid my 10 bucks just to register and to post in this thread!

...oh, wait.

The Elfland Grindfest is my clearest memory of the game. I always played a traditional Fighter, Thief, and White and Black Mage party, so I'd spend some 10 hours or so killing Ogres so I could afford all the top-of-the-line Silver weapons and armor (as well as the 99 Potions that Nintendo Power insisted you'd need for the Marsh Cave.) It was never a level-grind, I only did it for the monies. But then, once that was over with, I'd never need to grind ever again.

I thought you might alleviate the issue by spending some time at the Peninsula of Power, though.

Edit: When I first played this game, I thought it was more like "Grrr, IMPs!"

Eirikr
04-27-2008, 11:06 AM
I thought you might alleviate the issue by spending some time at the Peninsula of Power, though.

Exactly. No Peninsula of Power = fail. Or FAIL, as Brick seems to be notating his FF1 terms.

He's got the perfect team to do it, too.

Stiv
04-27-2008, 11:19 AM
Grinding at the Marsh Cave/Elfland is always my least favorite part of the game, but after that, I usually don't need to grind anymore. A nice side-effect of getting all those levels is that I can always afford a single Silver Sword and SLOW, which I always thought were instrumental for taking down DARK ELF.

But maybe I'm wrong?

Ruik
04-27-2008, 12:04 PM
I'm enjoying playing this game vicariously through Brick. Especially since I never beat this game, it'll be interesting to see some of the later parts.

BEAT
04-27-2008, 12:11 PM
I never actually owned this game on the NES. honestly, I never even played an RPG until the Dreamcast days.

But I'm loving this feature, and the fact that EDIT is my very own accidental contribution makes it even better.

Crested Penguin
04-27-2008, 12:35 PM
Brick, this is my new favorite thread. I never played FF1, I just played Dragon Warrior back in the day.

Balrog
04-27-2008, 12:46 PM
I remember getting in an argument when I was a kid about how ICE is inherently more powerful than LIT because it's in the second town...

Also, posting in an epic thread.

Falselogic
04-27-2008, 01:13 PM
I played this so long ago I can only vaguely remember what goes on though I do remember the dark elf, and later spending way too much time grinding in a desert. I got to Chaos with the typical party of fighter, black belt, wht and blk mage. Never beat him though. Never had the stamina to go through the game again now, though I have it on NES, GBA, etc, etc.

I'm loving "playing" it without actually having to! Thanks Brick!

Brickroad
04-27-2008, 01:43 PM
Other possibilities, courtesy of my friends:

Grape Imp
Groovy Imp

Both awesome.

Edit: When I first played this game, I thought it was more like "Grrr, IMPs!"

Even better!

Exactly. No Peninsula of Power = fail. Or FAIL, as Brick seems to be notating his FF1 terms.

He's got the perfect team to do it, too.

I won't be using the Power Peninsula at all. I'll show it off after I get my AIRSHIP for those who are curious about it, though.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-64.png
We rejoin our heroes here in Elfland, where L3 black magic is on tap. L3 is a pretty kickass level for black magic; LIT2 and FIR2 are probably the most useful direct attack spells in the game. Since R/L buttons won't be invented for another year or so at least, there's no way to toggle between single/multiple targets for attack magic in FF1. The first tier of spells (FIRE/LIT/ICE) all only hit one target, but the second tier (FIR2/LIT2/ICE2) hits everybody. Our next boss fight is against multiple monsters that hit hard but have a weakness to LIT, so once again LIT takes precedence over FIRE.

Of course, I can't actually cast LIT2 yet, so even if I make it all the way to my goal in the Marsh Cave I'm not going to be able to beat the boss. The plan now, then, is to hike over there and grab a few treasures while gaining some EXP along the way.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-65.png
Before we leave Elfland, though, we've got to check out this little gem. This is pretty much the definition of cocky, right here. It's even quite a bit cockier in the Japanese version, but I'll let someone else step up to the plate and explain why.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-67.png
The Marsh Cave is the first real dungeon in the game, and standard RPG practice demands I save before going in. Of course, FF1 doesn't have a save option on the menu; you have to use one of three save items to do it: a TENT, a CABIN or a HOUSE. I just happened to find a free CABIN while looting the Temple of the Fiends, so after a restful night's sleep I'm good to go.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-70.png
The Marsh Cave is annoying. Almost every creature in here Poisons you, and it contains a few extremely hard-hitting monsters that I'd call "out-of-depth" if this were NetHack. SCORPIONs in particular are pretty nasty; they spawn four at a time and can chop 20 HP off one of my armored RedMAGEs and drop Poison on them to boot. Even if I had the means to fight off the endless swarms of monsters, the EXP gains just aren't worth the trouble. I'll gain more EXP on the journey to and from Coneria than I will winning fights inside the cave.

Still, it's worth coming out here for the treasures: a Large Dagger, a Short Sword and 1300 GOLD. The Large Dagger does me no good, but the Short Sword is a noticable buff above the Scimtar. I'd give it to ADAM, but he can't use it, so BOSS takes it instead.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-75.png
ADAM is PO! Ha ha! (/nelson)

I'd like to grab the rest of the treasure, but unfortunately ADAM is Poisoned by a SCUM and I'm out of PUREs. It's back to town for me, braving the god-awful buzzing noise the game drills into your head to remind you someone is Poisoned. I've got enough doses of CURE to get ADAM back to Elfland alive, tip a PURE down his throat and he's as good as new.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-71.png
In most FF games there is a single class of healing magic that restores your HP if you're alive, but damages you if you're undead. This, combined with the single/multiple targets mechanic, means they can streamline just about everything cool in a white mage's arsenal into the Cure/Cura/Curaga line. Well, white magic in FF1 predates all that is good an logical, and is based around three separate spell lines: single target healing spells (CURE/CUR2/CUR3/CUR4), multi-target healing spells (HEAL/HEL2/HEL3) and spells to damage undead (HARM/HRM2/HRM3/HRM4).

I skipped HARM because there's no undead to speak of to cause any trouble in the first areas of the game, but I'm going to start running into them soon. HRM2 is one of those situational spells that you might never use, but can save your life in certain fights. It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. SKUB can't actually cast this until L5, which is still a couple hundred EXP away, so I'm going to have to just pray I get lucky and don't run into any undead on my way to finish looting the Marsh Cave.

I haven't decided whether or not I need any HEAL spells yet. I'll skip HEAL for sure, and will probably never need HEL2 or HEL3, but by the time I'm able to buy them I'll have enough money to spend on redundancies. We'll see.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-72.png
Back in we go...

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-73.png
Down on B3 are two pretty useful items: Iron Armor and a Copper Bracelet. There are items on B2 as well, but they're all duplicate chests. In many dungeons in FF1 you will find the same item in more than one chest, and taking it out of one chest causes the other to be empty. All three of the chests on B2 are just duplicates of the ones I've already taken. There are a lot more chests here on B3, but nothing great, and some of those are duplicates as well; if memory serves, there are three chests containing the Iron Armor!

I don't have anyone who can equip Iron Armor, but it'll sell for 400 GOLD. The Copper Bracelet is the first piece of armor worth putting on SKUB, but only because it's very slightly inferior to the Wooden Armor ADAM's already wearing. I would much rather give ADAM an extra point or two of ABSORB and leave SKUB naked, but that's just not the way the chips fall.

Brickroad
04-27-2008, 01:46 PM
http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-76.png
On the way back to the Coneria INN a helpful SHARK puts me up into L5. Not an exciting level, except for the fact that now I can cast HRM2.

Some groups can tackle the bosses of the Marsh Cave at L5, but this one can't. A three-FIGHTER group can do it at L4 with a reasonable amount of luck, and any group with a Bl.MAGE can do it at L5 thanks to LIT2. I don't have either of those things. I'm out of places to explore now and there's no real reason to go to the Marsh Cave a third time, so there's nothing for it: I'm going to have to grind out a level here on the ocean.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-82.png
The monsters on the ocean give large amounts of EXP and GOLD relative to how difficult they are to destroy. These KYZOKUs dropped a small fortune in my wallet with virtually no effort. By the time I reach L6 I'll have enough cash just from the sea monster drops to buy my second LIT2 spell and a full stock of HEAL and PURE potions for the trip.

Some guides will tell you to fight OGREs to level at this point in the game, and some will direct you to the PNEOP. OGREs hit hard and only come once in a while as you're fending off large amounts of ASPs and ARACHNIDs. The PNEOP (peninsula northeast of Pravoka, also called the Peninsula of Power) is a fool's game, completely unnecessary, of no use at all except as a curiosity. When it comes to pre-Marsh Cave powerleveling, the ocean is where it's at. If you can cast LIT2, farming the ocean's bounty is probably the best way to level at least until you get your AIRSHIP.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-89.png
I like the targeting system in FF1. That is to say, I don't really like how it works, but rather how you can tell what kind of games a player was weaned on by watching their reaction to it. In modern RPGs when a hero tries to attack a monster that's not there the game will automatically pick a new target for him. In FF1, however, the hero tries to attack the dead monster and gets the "Ineffective" message.

Now, FF1 pretty much trained me in how to play RPGs, and in order to avoid Ineffectives I learned to spread my attacks around, a practice I still use to this day. Younger players who learned their skills from those newfangled games go back and try to play FF1 and get tripped up by it because, in any given round, two of their guys will attack and two will whiff because of Ineffectives.

The "learn to spread your attacks out" vs. "the game should just autotarget" brouhaha was most noticable (to me anyway) after the release of Golden Sun for GBA which uses the oldschool method of Ineffective attacks. I don't mind the Ineffectives, and I admit it's always amusing to see people complain about them. They're easy to avoid if you're willing to unlearn a couple of your ideas about how RPG combat should work. In fact, I had to purposely force this one just to get the screenshot. Going into this round I knew either EDIT or ADAM would kill the target and the other would whiff.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-93.png
After burning my last LIT charges on a couple of SHARKs I headed back up to Coneria to recharge. Thanks to the mushy d-pad on the Xbox 360 controller I'm using I accidentially took a step to the left into the woods outside of town, ran into some IMPs, and leveled up. RedMAGEs get a pretty decent HP boost at L6 in addition to their first L3 spell charge. Time to return to the Marsh Cave.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-95.png
Undead monsters are annoying. Their physical attacks Stun you and, even though they don't do a lot of damage, once you're Stunned there's not much to do except sit there and watch yourself be very slowly poked to death. The easiest way to counteract this is to cast HARM magic and take out the whole group in one shot, which is exactly what SKUB is doing here. If I hadn't bought HRM2, this would have probably been a game over.

Incidentially, this is the first useful thing SKUB has done in the adventure so far. I'll be sure to point out Useful SKUB Things (USTs) as I go to try and further illustrate my point that Wh.MAGEs suck and they have no place in any respectable FF1 party. Yes, this particular fight would have been my ruin if not for my Wh.MAGE, but I saved right outside the cave anyway and I would much rather have to reset once or twice during the course of the game than drag a usually-useless character through every fight.

Undead also have a weakness to FIRE spells, so if I didn't have a Wh.MAGE handy I would have bought FIR2 for one of my RedMAGEs instead, which has the same effect. Even though this is UST #1, it's not something unique that only SKUB can handle.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-96.png
Here we go! The Marsh Cave bosses are the WIZARDs, a group of between two and four super-strong monsters. They're so strong that if both of these guys were to land attacks on EDIT he would die even though he's wearing the best armor and has the highest HP. The number of WIZARDs encountered is random, and some groups need to encounter fewer if you want to beat them without major trouble. I've got two LIT2 casters, so I don't really care how many there are just as long as I can get both of my spells off before too much damage is sustained. These guys drop a heavy hurt on EDIT and BOSS, but go down after the second LIT2 just as predicted.

That's the difference that one single level made. At L5 this fight would have been impossible, but at L6 it was trivially easy. Actually, I could win as low as L2 if I put SKUB in the back, had him RUSE twice, and then killed the WIZARDs over the course of the next twenty or thirty rounds providing they didn't land any criticals on me. Winning the fight that way would take longer than I spent on the ocean getting to L6, though!

For the record, WIZARDs are the only monsters I think actually have cooler names in the updated versions of FF1, where they are called Piscodemons. WIZARD is somewhat of a misnomer anyway since they don't have any spellcasting ability.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-97.png
Ta-daa! Prize in hand, I'm now free to leave the Marsh Cave and get on with the quest.

The WIZARDs are on a spiked square, so I can fight them as much as I want. I don't have any more LIT2 charges, but if I had a Bl.MAGE on hand I might trigger the battle again to reap the EXP/GOLD reward. I'm done here in any case, so it's back to Elfland with me.

Next: You have no more business here. Go!!

shivam
04-27-2008, 01:55 PM
wizards my ass. those are illithids.

Falselogic
04-27-2008, 02:20 PM
They look a lot like mindflayers to me

Crested Penguin
04-27-2008, 02:29 PM
Illithid is synonymous with mind flayer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illithid

Mightyblue
04-27-2008, 02:32 PM
*cough**cough* (http://www.gamespite.net/toastywiki/index.php/Games/FinalFantasy)

Falselogic
04-27-2008, 02:35 PM
*cough**cough* (http://www.gamespite.net/toastywiki/index.php/Games/FinalFantasy)

That review has nothing to do with this thread

Falselogic
04-27-2008, 02:36 PM
Illithid is synonymous with mind flayer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illithid



... I totally knew that, I was testing you guys, my nerd credential is totally legit!

Mightyblue
04-27-2008, 02:37 PM
Oh, but it has EVERYTHING to do with this thread good sir. Everything!

So rather than bite off Dragon Quest, Square's creators instead shamelessly stole wholesale from Dungeons & Dragons. Everything from basic gameplay concepts to the much of the bestiary was taken whole-cloth from the seminal table-top RPG, creating a collection of combat and bad guys that remain iconic to this day... and tend to be a real head-scratcher for tabletop RPG fans who find themselves bemused by the numerous “similarities” between the two games. Curious, TSR (who owned Dungeons & Dragons at the time) declined to pursue the game's obvious creative infringements, thus clearing the path for Final Fantasy’s ascent into gaming history.

BEAT
04-27-2008, 02:37 PM
Friends, friends. Let's just call them "Zoidbergs" and be done with it.

http://www.freewebs.com/devin_futurama/00%20zoidberg%20jesus.jpg

You can't tell me you don't see the resemblence.

Jonathan
04-27-2008, 02:52 PM
This thread almost makes me want to bring out my NES and run through the game. I just don't know if my NES could take it. Most games only play so long as I have them inserted into the Game Genie.

Instead, I'm content to watch and observe.

Octopus Prime
04-27-2008, 04:04 PM
I just need to clarify a single point from Brick's last post:

Wizards/Pisco Demons are not weak to Lit, they're just resistant to everything else, which is why they take more damage from it. And knowing is half the battle!

Also, as for the "Here Lies Erdrick" thing, in Japan it read "Here lies Link". Which is far cockier.

spineshark
04-27-2008, 04:32 PM
Also, as for the "Here Lies Erdrick" thing, in Japan it read "Here lies Link". Which is far cockier.
Not in Japan.

Well, maybe. That's not my point though.

Sanagi
04-27-2008, 04:50 PM
Reading about you playing the game is more entertaining then playing the game itself.

How about that!
Yeah, I keep getting urges to go play the game, but I know it's for the best that I don't.

Grinding at the Marsh Cave/Elfland is always my least favorite part of the game, but after that, I usually don't need to grind anymore. A nice side-effect of getting all those levels is that I can always afford a single Silver Sword and SLOW, which I always thought were instrumental for taking down DARK ELF.

But maybe I'm wrong?
Back when FF first came out, I took a very long hiatus before finally getting through the marsh cave. That place just kills the fun.

Tomm Guycot
04-27-2008, 05:18 PM
Nintendo published both Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy in the US, so I'm not even sure the Erdrick thing was meant to be cocky at the time.

Alex Scott
04-27-2008, 05:25 PM
I don't think you'll meet any "Mindflayers" until later, in the Ice Cave. They're called "Sorcerers" in the NES version.

IIRC, they have instant-kill attacks. Enjoy!

Octopus Prime
04-27-2008, 05:43 PM
Not in Japan.

Well, maybe. That's not my point though.

You mean in Japan it would have been Loto instead of Erdrick, or that in Japan there was no reference to Link?

I'm unsure of whtehre I was wrong on semantics or wrong in general concept. HELP ME OUT HERE GUYS!

dwolfe
04-27-2008, 07:46 PM
I feel like I'm taking a class in how to play Final Fantasy. I had no idea about all these tricks. My love for White Mage all these years...so misplaced. Better to learn late than never.

Sven
04-27-2008, 07:54 PM
When it comes to pre-Marsh Cave powerleveling, the ocean is where it's at. If you can cast LIT2, farming the ocean's bounty is probably the best way to level at least until you get your AIRSHIP.

Actually, you're just about to hit the best one: once you have the key and can open the treasure chamber in Astos' castle, there's a group of mummies that always show up in front of one of the chests. This is basically the best argument for keeping a white mage around, as even simple ol' HARM (the only first-level spell that multi-targets) can wipe them out in a shot or two.

With a Fighter / (Thief / Black Belt / Red) / Black / White Party, it's pretty much clean sailing, and much more time efficient than just about anything else in the game (I think the only equivalent is in the Waterfall). 300 Exp, 300 gold a piece, and you never get fewer than three. Step left, step right, Harm, FIR2 / HRM2, victory dance, repeat. An hour there and say goodbye to wanting for gold until, oh, you have to visit the caravan.

(Heck, if you can get a solo white mage to this point with a couple of Houses, you're free and clear to grind the character for long enough to survive the rest of the game, as it sets up a positive feedback loop.)

Considering there's no other worthwhile white magic other than CURE at White Level 1, there's no reason to not pick up HARM. Hell, it's likely the most cost effective spell in the game other than one of the HEALs. With HARM, you get to WELCOME the appearance of undead creatures. Frankly, I think that they screwed up the spell by making it multi-target - there's no reason why that's the one first level spell that can do so - but I'm not too holy to not take advantage.

Shadax
04-27-2008, 08:50 PM
I'm playing the GBA version, and I'm beginning to feel like the Monk/Black Belt is the most broken thing imaginable.

Brickroad
04-27-2008, 09:17 PM
double post lawl

Brickroad
04-27-2008, 09:20 PM
Friends, friends. Let's just call them "Zoidbergs" and be done with it.

Done.

Considering there's no other worthwhile white magic other than CURE at White Level 1, there's no reason to not pick up HARM. Hell, it's likely the most cost effective spell in the game other than one of the HEALs. With HARM, you get to WELCOME the appearance of undead creatures. Frankly, I think that they screwed up the spell by making it multi-target - there's no reason why that's the one first level spell that can do so - but I'm not too holy to not take advantage.

I think the reason is a balance thing. I guess they felt that since the spell only worked against a small subset of monsters, it could stand to be a little more powerful.

The main reason I didn't pick up HARM is because it competes with CURE for spell charges. I don't have enough money to stockpile HEAL potions, so my only method of healing in the Marsh Cave are my CURE spells.

I'm playing the GBA version, and I'm beginning to feel like the Monk/Black Belt is the most broken thing imaginable.

Bl.BELT is my overall favorite class, I think. My first solo game was a Bl.BELT named BERT.

On with the adventure!

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-98.png
Okay, okay, I know what you're thinking. I'm supposed to be lighting ORBs, not tromping around fighting ZOIDBERGs and finding lost CROWNs. What the haps is, is that the prince of Elfland was cursed by ASTOS and placed into a magical sleep. The only thing that can cure him is Matoya's HERB, but she won't give it up until we return the CRYSTAL ASTOS stole from her. And we couldn't just roll up into ASTOS's crib before because he wouldn't give us the time of day without the CROWN. Once we get the HERB and wake the prince, thereby being proclaimed heroes.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-99.png
Actually that's bullshit, I don't care about the prince at all, just the Elfland legend that he's supposed to give me the mystic KEY. There are lots of locked doors like this one standing between me and fabulous riches.

So: CROWN -> CRYSTAL -> HERB -> KEY. Got all that?

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-100.png
ASTOS is posing as a lost, lonely king up in the Northwest Castle. Once we show him the CROWN, however, he shows his true colors.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-111.png
ASTOS is a really rough boss. It's not surprising so many people think you have to grind forever to get past him. He's a powerful spellcaster who always opens with RUB, followed by SLO2 (which won't do anything to me anyway because nobody in the team can land more than one hit), then FAST, then FIR2, then LIT2. FIR2 won't kill me, but it will sting enough so that LIT2 can finish me off. I have to kill him before then.

I'm lucky his RUB spell didn't stick. It's instant death, and the only way I can damage him is my magic. Had it hit ADAM or SKUB I would have been okay, but it's going to take the combined efforts of every LIT2 and LIT charge I have to finish the fight.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-114.png
Success! ASTOS decided to attack me a few times instead of moving on to FIR2. Having been FASTed he was able to take a big bite out of EDIT, but otherwise I'm in good shape. Note that at L7 my RedMAGEs both get their second L3 magic charge, so if I was having too much trouble with this fight I could have spent a few more minutes on the water and come back here with four blasts of LIT2 instead of two.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-117.png
Killing ASTOS gets me the CRYSTAL, which I can trade to Matoya for the HERB.

Sheesh, she doesn't seem very grateful.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-118.png
At last! Here's my KEY! Now it's time to do some for serious hardcore treasure hunting. Our first stop is the locked room here in the Elfland Castle, where I'll pick up some GOLD and a Silver Hammer. The Hammer is another item I'd never buy for myself, but since it's free I'll equip it on SKUB so he can start hitting for 15-20 damage instead of 1.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-121.png
In addition to a bunch of junk that isn't useful to me because I don't have a FIGHTER, Coneria Castle has been hiding the TNT all this time. This is my next important quest item, and it's the last one in this leg of the game I promise.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-125.png
Our next stop is the Temple of the Fiends, which has a few locked rooms. Inside are the Rune Sword and Were Sword, which are notable for buffing my guys' HIT up over 32%. In FF1 you can land an extra hit in combat for every 32% of HIT you have. This means that, from now on, I will miss a lot less. Also, the chance for a Critical Hit is calculated separately for each hit, so not only is my average damage doubled, but I will also start getting twice as many Criticals. My damage output just went through the roof.

Coincidentially, any +15% HIT weapon would have given me this option, including the super-expensive Silver Swords they sell in Elfland. However, rather than spend 4000 on a Silver Sword, I spent 3000 on two LIT2 spells and killed ASTOS with magic. If I had FIGHTERs instead of RedMAGEs, I would have invested that money in a Silver Sword to take down ASTOS, a tactic that only works if my sword-holder manages to get by both RUB and SLO2.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-129.png
Back in the Dwarf Cave. I love this guy here because I like to read his dialogue out loud: "The bracelet... *awkward pause* bracelet can protect you, like armor." He's telling the truth though, as we'll soon see.

Brickroad
04-27-2008, 09:22 PM
http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-130.png
This smithy is an important NPC if and only if you have a FIGHTER in your group, and you intend to promote him to a KNIGHT. In one of the final dungeons we'll find some ADAMANT, and if you bring it here to the smithy he'll forge it into Xcalbur, a powerful weapon only the KNIGHT can use.

Honestly, I wasn't interested in any of his stupid samples, seeing as how I'm about to pick up my third free sword anyway!

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-131.png
Dwarves love blowing things up, and Nerrick here is no exception. The second he lays eyes on my beautiful TNT he gets so excited he vanishes into thin air! When I get back out in my ship the isthmus I showed you earlier will have turned into a handy canal finally letting me escape Newbie Sea and get out into the real meat of the world.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-143.png
All in good time, of course; I'm not done looting yet! The Dragon Sword is my last weapon upgrade for the time being, allowing BOSS, EDIT and ADAM to all land two hits per attack. Now I can easily slice my way through monster groups I would have either had to RUN from before, or waste a charge of LIT2.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-135.png
There's a locked room in the Northwest Castle too. Selling the loot here is worth almost 10000 GOLD, but more importantly the room contains spiked squares with groups of MUMMYs. Staying here long enough to burn through all my charges of FIR2 and HRM2 loads me up with EXP, bringing me up to L8.

When we were kids L8 was where we would first set out for the Marsh Cave, because we didn't know any better. The thought now of grinding all that EXP on GrWOLFs, CREEPs and OGREs makes me shudder with dread.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-136.png
Last stop on the treasure train is the bottom of the Marsh Cave. I used the free HOUSE I got from the Dwarf Cave outside to recharge my magic, so I have enough charges of LIT2 to mop the floor with the ZOIDBERGs on these spiked squares. The Silver Bracelet is the last really good treasure I want; equipping it on ADAM finally gives him enough enough ABSORB to start taking his turns on the front line. In fact, with his superior HP he's actually a better meatshield now than either of my RedMAGEs.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-139.png
Bet you weren't expecting this so soon, eh? LIT2ing my way through a few groups of ZOIDBERGs, in addition to all the EXP I'm getting from fights in the Marsh Cave I can win now that I'm getting extra hits, lets me climb to L9 effortlessly. Here, SKUB earns his second dose of L4 magic, which I've been neglecting until now. I don't have any more treasure rooms to raid, so let's head back to Elfland and see what they've got.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-140.png
Your first thought might be "He's been burning through so many PURE potions, that spell certainly will validate SKUB's existence!" Well, not quite. I mean, let's crunch the numbers, here: for the price of this one spell I can buy fifty-three PURE potions, which is way, way more than I'll ever need during the course of the game. What's more, with the Marsh Cave behind me (for real this time!) Poison is less of a disaster and more of a very slight inconvenience. Sorry SKUB, no magic for you this level.

The RedMAGEs can't use any L4 magic yet, but since I can afford it I'm going to buy them the single most useful magic spell in the game: FAST. FAST doubles a target's HIT, dramatically increasing your damage output. As I advance more in the game I'll kill the bosses less and less with magic and more and more with FASTed hits.

And since I'm here, I might as well pick up a CUR2 each for EDIT and BOSS. CUR2 isn't very useful for RedMAGEs (since it shares charges with the vastly better FIR2 and LIT2), but I can afford it and they might come in handy. Even if I never cast CUR2 with either of them, I'll still consider the 3000 GOLD well spent as an insurance policy.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-141.png
As you can see, ASTOS is very clearly the point at which an FF1 party comes into its own. The power level of your team before and after the ASTOS fight is like night and day. Not only do I now have much better weapons and more magic, but I've got a great spot to go back and powerlevel if I wanted, and enough cash flow to not have to nickel-and-dime every single HEAL potion. I've also got three viable party leaders instead of two, enhancing my ability to spread the damage around and conserve healing resources. Life is pretty sweet.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-142.png
Time to leave the lands of Coneria and Elfland behind and finally start seeing about these ORBs I've been lugging around.

Next: No one passes this road.

Eirikr
04-27-2008, 09:27 PM
This is ahead a bit, but at the rate you're going, it won't be that long, so...

You should go to the Ice Cave to get the FLOATER as soon as you beat LICH. Your pain will be our pain.

Merus
04-27-2008, 09:36 PM
Man, that quest item chain after the Marsh Cave seems twice as long when you do it.

These mechanics discussions are making me want to go back to Dawn of Souls and try and kill the optional bosses nicked from the later games.

Mazian
04-27-2008, 09:47 PM
I remember seriously grinding at two points in the game: once for the Silver Sword, and once in the Giant-filled western hallway of the Earth Cave B1. Thing is, I can't remember what I did that second one for. Maybe Brickroad has the answer... in the next installment! Stay tuned.

Sven
04-27-2008, 09:51 PM
Man, that quest item chain after the Marsh Cave seems twice as long when you do it.

Yeah, the tedium of "walk to kill Astos, walk BACK, sail to Corneria, walk to Matoya, walk back, heal prince" is kinda lost here.

Still no HARM when you walked by Corneria TWICE! I am cry.

You should go to the Ice Cave to get the FLOATER as soon as you beat LICH. Your pain will be our pain.

I'm trying to figure out if he's going to be gutsy enough to rush the rat tail quest or not. (to get the almightly Zeus Gauntlet, which was the ultimate spam item before we knew of such things) Then again, no Thief in the party makes that little bit of sequence-breaking craziness a lot harder.

Eirikr
04-27-2008, 10:00 PM
I'm trying to figure out if he's going to be gutsy enough to rush the rat tail quest or not. (to get the almightly Zeus Gauntlet, which was the ultimate spam item before we knew of such things) Then again, no Thief in the party makes that little bit of sequence-breaking craziness a lot harder.

I love how relatively open FF1 becomes when you beat Lich (I can't do the caps thing anymore), then by extension, get the airship. I always got a strange satisfaction by leveling Kary with a party of optimal-equipped, transcended Light Warriors.

Sven
04-27-2008, 10:06 PM
The Nintendo Power strat guide advocated the Giant's Hallway grind, but, yeah, I never did it. Largely because by that point, if anyone opened the door to the northwest castle I think couple thousand dead mummies would come tumbling out.

(They're still only 900ish, so your average Mummy group is a more lucrative harvest)

Other semi-famous tip: a heal potion recovers 30HP for one ally and costs 60GP. A tent recovers 30HP for all allies and costs 75GP.

Aside from convenience - as it's freaking annoying to buy anything other than potions - there's no reason to ever buy a potion unless you're insanely hard-up for gold or about to stock up for a dungeon. For overwold healing, use tents every time.

mopinks
04-27-2008, 11:08 PM
I really hate this game, but I'm still endlessly fascinated by it. I blame that strategy guide Nintendo Power sent me.

Coinspinner
04-28-2008, 01:47 AM
Awesome thread. Makes me wish I had finished FFL2.

Ample Vigour
04-28-2008, 02:18 AM
I really hate this game, but I'm still endlessly fascinated by it. I blame that strategy guide Nintendo Power sent me.

I read that damn thing cover to cover for years before I ever got FF. Between that and the NP fold-in for Dragon Warrior, I'm shocked I ever actually read a real book as a kid.

Merus
04-28-2008, 02:50 AM
Yeah, the tedium of "walk to kill Astos, walk BACK, sail to Corneria, walk to Matoya, walk back, heal prince" is kinda lost here.

As was the double post joke on you.

Although that is a really long sequence.

Octopus Prime
04-28-2008, 03:08 AM
These mechanics discussions are making me want to go back to Dawn of Souls and try and kill the optional bosses nicked from the later games.

You'd regret such a decision. Wouldn't be so bad if fighting them didn't require multiple trips through the 4 crappiest dungeons in the game.

Sanagi
04-28-2008, 04:42 AM
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5949/32ss0.jpghttp://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5499/zoidberghz7.jpghttp://img213.imageshack.us/img213/5505/42826637who3bbcor0.jpg

Balrog
04-28-2008, 07:03 AM
Put me in coach, I'm ready to play. Look at me, I can be: meatshield.

Zef
04-28-2008, 09:16 AM
I really hate this game, but I'm still endlessly fascinated by it. I blame that strategy guide Nintendo Power sent me.

That thing is glorious. Though I've always wondered, from the moment I laid eyes on it, how those Light Warriors fit in their flying canoe (http://www.the-weaving.com/images/temp/ff1nessg.jpg) (as well as what gender the Knight is) I loved the detail and craftsmanship. The little vignettes at the start of each chapter fleshed out the game wonderfully, much like the Link to the Past guide.

However, I'll never forgive it for not telling me that the last path leading to Chaos was infested with OHK-capable, stunning-touch Sorcerers :mad: (things like that can traumatize an 11 year-old.)

Sven
04-28-2008, 09:49 AM
To this day, the most disappointing moment of my Nintendo-Power-reading days was when that fourth strategy guide showed up (right before the magazine went monthly) - after Mario 3, Ninja Gaiden 2, and Final Fantasy, I was going crazy with excitement for that next one.

And then... it was an 80-page plug for the multitap, featuring a ton of coverage of games that didn't interest me (I don't know how long it took to cover Nintendo World Cup, but it wasn't one page like the game deserved).

I can't remember any of my go-to economic-efficiency tricks for this next part of the game. Glancing at a FAQ, I recall that Lev5 White magic is annoying, as ALL the spells have quite a high amount of utility - CURE3 and LIFE are fairly easy selections, but HARM3 is fun if you're powerlevelling at the northwest castle (you make the money back on it in two or three battles) and HEL2 is bugged in a good way - it shows up as HEL3 in battle. In spite of my love of HARM during the first phase of the game, it's not worth picking up this variant - the 24000G dropped to fully equip a White Mage in this section is the best money you can spend, if you can afford it. And you should be able to, as FIR3 is really the only worthwhile spell hanging around Melmond's Black shop - casting SLO2 is a waste of a turn at this point, and it's going to be a long while before you can cast WARP.

(I guess HRM3 is useful if you want to do damage to the upcoming bosses, but odds are good you won't have any charges for it by the time you get down there - an in-battle HEL2 is almost inevitable at some point in various the Earth Cave treks)

This next bit of the game is all about just getting to the bosses - keep the high-level magic charges handy, and the actual fights themselves aren't that tough because, as we all know, FIRE burns the undead.

Reluctant Hero
04-28-2008, 10:02 AM
I should be getting my PSP copy from Gamefly tomorrow. I know it's not the "true" version that NES and PSX version are, but I'm looking forward to it none-the-less.

Brickroad
04-28-2008, 10:16 AM
Sorry guys, I meant to post the next installment this morning before work so we could discuss it throughout the day, but I slept through my alarm and didn't have time for a shower let alone cut/pasting shit onto Gamespite. I AM A BAD HOST.

I'll go ahead and get some of these replies out of the way though so I don't have a huge monsterpost to make when I get home tonight.

I remember seriously grinding at two points in the game: once for the Silver Sword, and once in the Giant-filled western hallway of the Earth Cave B1. Thing is, I can't remember what I did that second one for. Maybe Brickroad has the answer... in the next installment! Stay tuned.

There's no reason to farm GIANTs, ever. They have a lot of HP and are hard to kill, have no weaknesses to exploit, and are never found anywhere near a convenient recharge point. The abundance of GIANTs is one of the reasons I do not advocate using the PNEOP.

"Farm the Hall of GIANts!" sounds like something a strategy guide-writer would come up with if he's on a deadline and finds a spot that has guaranteed fights every step, without actually thinking about what it means or what the alternatives are. If you're going to farm GIANTs, do yourself a favor and go farm MUMMYs instead.

Still no HARM when you walked by Corneria TWICE! I am cry.

Heh, I didn't buy any Wooden Nunchucks either. =)

Other semi-famous tip: a heal potion recovers 30HP for one ally and costs 60GP. A tent recovers 30HP for all allies and costs 75GP.

It's easy enough to RUN from most overworld monsters (except for undead, which are rare enough to not have to really worry about) that healing in between fights isn't a major concern, but yeah your trick is spot-on.

If you're farming on the overworld, though, I'll do you one better: do it on the ocean just south of Coneria and recharge at the INN there when you need to. Full HP/MP restore and a save for the low, low price of 30 GOLD.

You'd regret such a decision. Wouldn't be so bad if fighting them didn't require multiple trips through the 4 crappiest dungeons in the game.

If I never do Earthgift Shrine again, it'll be too soon. That forest level is pain personified.

(I guess HRM3 is useful if you want to do damage to the upcoming bosses, but odds are good you won't have any charges for it by the time you get down there - an in-battle HEL2 is almost inevitable at some point in various the Earth Cave treks)

I'm glad I have some surprises left in store for you guys, even the ones who know the game really well. =)

Red Hedgehog
04-28-2008, 10:27 AM
And then... it was an 80-page plug for the multitap, featuring a ton of coverage of games that didn't interest me (I don't know how long it took to cover Nintendo World Cup, but it wasn't one page like the game deserved).

Nintendo World Cup was awesome for the sheer fact that players could die. Okay, I think they just collapsed from exhaustion, but to me and my friends, they died.

Sven
04-28-2008, 10:40 AM
If you're farming on the overworld, though, I'll do you one better: do it on the ocean just south of Coneria and recharge at the INN there when you need to. Full HP/MP restore and a save for the low, low price of 30 GOLD.

True, but kinda useless in terms of time spent once you get to a certain point (anywhere over lvl 10, really). Since I don't like running from potential gold acquisition, I tend to lean on Tents during some of the longer hikes around this part of the game.

If you're going to farm GIANTs, do yourself a favor and go farm MUMMYs instead.

I think a big reason for people going after the giants is that because you sorta get trained to take every chest possible from the side, you sometimes don't even realise that the trap squares exist.

There is one thing about this next bit I like: the way they took away the item shop in Melmond. Of course, since I was always loaded down with Mummy Cash, it just meant one trip back to Elfland to stock up on the essentials in massive quantities.

SpoonyGundam
04-28-2008, 12:30 PM
You'd regret such a decision. Wouldn't be so bad if fighting them didn't require multiple trips through the 4 crappiest dungeons in the game.

You only say those are the four crappiest dungeons because you haven't played the PSP version.

@Reluctant Hero: You should try going through a couple floors of the Labyrinth of Time one you get the game, just to share my pain.

TheSL
04-28-2008, 12:37 PM
You only say those are the four crappiest dungeons because you haven't played the PSP version.

They made more tedious dungeons? Really?

I remember playing through those on DoS more or less therapeutically. All that mindless grinding kept me from going insane my senior year of college.

Zef
04-28-2008, 12:47 PM
You should try going through a couple floors of the Labyrinth of Time one you get the game, just to share my pain.

The new dungeon, titled Labyrinth of Time (時の迷宮, Toki no Meikyū?), is a dungeon with a time limit, in which the player's HP constantly decreases as time passes. The player is able to exchange abilities such as White Magic usage and the Dash command in order to extend the time limit, allowing them to delve deeper into the dungeon

Yay sounds FUN!

SpoonyGundam
04-28-2008, 01:12 PM
That only really touches on the horrors of the Labyrinth.

The time limit isn't there to explore the dungeon. It's there for the "puzzles" in it. If you complete a puzzle when you still have time, it makes the boss at the end weaker (I'm told, at least. I could never actually force myself to the end.), and you won't actually have to fight random battles in the puzzle room(s). If the time runs out, the boss is powered up, your HP and MP is constantly drained, you fight random battles in the puzzle room, and you still have to solve the puzzles. You think stealth missions are bad when shoehorned in RPGs? Try a stealth mission where your HP and MP are constantly draining while you get into a random battle every five steps and you can't actually see the things you're trying to avoid until they're on screen and have spotted you.

Brickroad
04-28-2008, 04:33 PM
Labyrinth of Time

Wow, that sounds horrible! I'm glad I don't have a PSP.

Anyway, onwards to adventure!


http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-144.png
Soon our heroes arrive in Melmond, which is in pretty bad shape. This is the first time we see the direct result of one of the four FIENDs, in particular the earth FIEND LICH, who is causing the ground to rot. Not to worry though, ol' Jim here is on the scene!

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-145.png
But Jim isn't the only major player in Melmond, oh no. Here we have Dr. Unne, world-class braggart and expert at introducing himself. We'll come back later to visit Dr. Unne, but for now we'll just leave him content to wander around one of Melmond's many beautiful cemetaries.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-146.png
The Long Sword in this shop is something of a curiosity. The Were/Dragon/Rune Swords are trivially easy to get and put the Long Sword's stats to shame, so who on earth would need it? For the longest time people speculated that some tired programmer accidentially listed the Long Sword and Silver Sword in the wrong shops; the game makes more sense if these two weapons are switched, making the Long Sword the best weapon available in Elfland and putting the godlike Silver Sword out of reach until Melmond.

Of course, the GBA remake came along and stomped everybody's nuts by just taking the Silver Sword (called Mithril now, I think) out of shops altogether. Cue trombones.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-147.png
I do want to pick up a Silver Bracelet for BOSS while I'm here though. RedMAGEs can inexplicably wear Silver Armor even though they can't wear Iron, but I've only got one suit of it and EDIT's wearing it. Chain Armor isn't going to cut it for much longer, so this upgrade is just in time.

SKUB, of course, lives on the back rank, and isn't worth dropping 5000 GOLD on. Once either ADAM or BOSS upgrades to their next Bracelet, SKUB can make do with their hand-me-downs.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-149.png
My team has more CURE than most teams do, but unless I want to RUN from every single fight I need a backup plan to keep my HPs in line. I don't have anything else to buy at the moment, so it's time to drop 5940 GOLD on HEAL potions. Actually purchasing these potions, however, is unbelievably tedious. Oldschool RPGs didn't give you the option to buy more than one item at a time, you see. This wasn't a big problem in, say, Dragon Quest where your junk didn't stack and you only had about twelve slots in your inventory, but in Final Fantasy it means purchasing one potion at a time, three button presses per purchase ninety-nine times in a row.

When we were kids we would pass the time by actually acting out the transation: "Welcome!" "Buy." "What do you want?" "HEAL." "60 GOLD OK?" "Yes." "Thank you! What else?" "Buy." "What do you want?" "HEAL." "60 GOLD OK?" "Yes." "Thank you! What else?" "Buy." "What do you want?" "HEAL." "60 GOLD OK?" "Yes." "Thank you! What else?" "Buy." "What do you want?" "HEAL." "60 GOLD OK?" "Yes." "Thank you! What else?" *gunshot*

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-150.png
Our next stop is the Earth Cave. I'm in good enough shape to do what I need to do here, and there are no treasures here worth writing home about, so it's a bee-line straight for the boss and back.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-151.png
For some reason I've just always really liked how B2F of the Earth Cave is laid out. I don't really know what kind of effect the map designer was going for here, but I'd say he achieved it admirably.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-153.png
On B3F a group of ZOIDBERGs decided it was time for them to harvest some ADAM (groan...), so I'll have to take on the VAMPIRE sans my THIEF. This isn't much of an accomplishment though since the VAMPIRE is notoriously easy. Half the time you can kill him with a single shot of FIR2 or HRM2, and most players will powerlevel until they have FIR3 or HRM3 from Melmond before coming this far. BOSS manages to destroy the loathsome undead monstrosity with about as much fanfare as when I accidentially leveled off of those IMPs on my way to save earlier.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-154.png
Raiding the VAMPIRE's jewelry box nets me a RUBY, and that's as far as I can go in the Earth Cave for now. ADAM is two battles behind in EXP, so I'm going to RUN from everything I can on my way out to make sure he doesn't fall too far behind...

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-155.png
...especially these COCSUCKRs, who can petrify you with their attacks. I've got a few SOFT potions in reserve for just such an ocassion, but for now it's time to heroically RUN away!

Brickroad
04-28-2008, 04:34 PM
http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-158.png
...shit.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-159.png
Naturally I'm TENTed outside the Cave, so this is just a minor setback. Next time through everyone gets through to the VAMPIRE fight unscathed, there are no mishaps with ZOIDBERGs or COCTRICEs, and it's time to figure out what to do with this RUBY.

A few steps away from the stairs leading outside I trip over a couple GrOGREs and land on L10. Now EDIT and BOSS can cast FAST, which may prove to be crucial in the next boss fight.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-160.png
Next door to the Earth Cave (but clearly in a different geological stratum, judging by the color of the rock here) is Titan's Tunnel. As a matter of fact I do want pass, so I give RUBY, he muncha-cruncha, and I can mosy on through.

There are some treasures here, and pretty decent ones at that, but it's all FIGHTER stuff so it's only worth to me is its resale value.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-161.png
I went into the cave to get the thing that gets me through the other cave so I can cross through to this cave, home to Sarda the Sage. Sarda apparently is concerned enough about the state of the world to donate his ROD to my cause, but not so much that he'd spring for Next Day Air to Melmond so I didn't have to jump through that silly VAMPIRE hoop to get it.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-162.png
LICH is considerably harder than the VAMPIRE, so I want to show up on his doorstep with as many L3 spell charges as possible. I have to use a couple to get through these ZOIDBERGs, but at least I get L11 as a consolation prize.

I'm confident I can beat LICH with what I have, but if I weren't I could swing back by the Northwest Castle and farm MUMMYs for a while. At L12 SKUB is able to use HRM3 which can take a huge chunk out of LICH's HP. If I really wanted to over-prepare I could powerlevel until L15, at which point BOSS and EDIT get FIR3, to make the fight a complete cakewalk.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-163.png
Here's the stone plate Sarda was talking about...

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-164.png
Pow!

Actually, since the stone plate is a sprite you can reveal the stairway simply by transitioning the map (say, by entering a battle or opening the menu). If this were real life I could just be like "SKUB, you open the menu. Quick, the rest of you jump in while the stairs are showing! Awesome, guys. Okay you three, there is a warp point after the boss, but SKUB is going to have to walk back. Have fun with the COCTRICEs, SKUB!"

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-165.png
Dun dun duuuuuuuun!

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-166.png
LICH is undead, so he's weak to FIRE and HARM magic. Of course, even then, we're talking about a wide range of possible damage. This blast of FIR2 only deals about 40 damage, but EDIT's blast in the next round deals over 100. EDIT spent this round FASTing ADAM so he could get in on the battle, and SKUB opened up with HRM2. LICH's first attack is ICE2, which will about chop everyone's HP in half, and his second one (LIT2) has the potential to finish me off. I could counteract this by using AICE (L4 white magic) to protect myself, but chances are good ICE2 will go off before AICE does, which basically just wastes a round. Besides, if I can't finish the fight by the time LIT2 comes around in the rotation, I probably wasn't going to win anyway.

Before long my FIR2s, HRM2s and FASTed attacks plow through all 400 of LICH's HPs, and he goes down like the bitch he rhymes with. The ORB of Earth is revived!

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-182.png
Ain't it purty?

Next: The Fire FIEND will burn everything up!

PapillonReel
04-28-2008, 04:43 PM
Fire Fiend? Aren't you going to do the Ice Cave next?

Octopus Prime
04-28-2008, 04:50 PM
Fun Fact:
Until my most recent excursion through the game (which was the GBA version), I never once tried to sequence break in the game, going through the events exactly as outlined by the Nintendo Players Guide, right down to the excessive leveling.

It seems you can't get the Canoe until after you kill Lichs bony-ass. I was also kind of surprised at how hard-ish the cave was when you don't go through the Volcano first.

Seriously, those WH.DRAGONs and COCKATRICEs can be freakin' lethal in large groups.

Balrog
04-28-2008, 04:50 PM
I thought all the bad Bioshock jokes had came and went, I was wrong.

Zef
04-28-2008, 04:51 PM
Actually, since the stone plate is a sprite you can reveal the stairway simply by transitioning the map (say, by entering a battle or opening the menu). If this were real life I could just be like "SKUB, you open the menu. Quick, the rest of you jump in while the stairs are showing! Awesome, guys. Okay you three, there is a warp point after the boss, but SKUB is going to have to walk back. Have fun with the COCTRICEs, SKUB!"

This made me laugh uncontrollably. And yeah, I always thought it was funny how these environment objects vanished when leaving the map screen.

SpoonyGundam
04-28-2008, 04:56 PM
Your HP seems a lot more consistent than what I had the last time I played it. My black belt and red mage had less than half the HP of my other two members throughout the entire game, and it kind of pissed me off. Was the original less random with HP gains? It's been so long since I've played it that I can't really remember.

Eirikr
04-28-2008, 05:15 PM
Fire Fiend? Aren't you going to do the Ice Cave next?

Do it! Flaunt your Final Fantasy ePenis proudly!

Mazian
04-28-2008, 06:24 PM
purchasing one potion at a time, three button presses per purchase ninety-nine times in a row.
Best (and only) use for a turbo controller in the game. Set something on that button and come back in 10 minutes. Any shop lame enough to put Potions somewhere other than the top slot doesn't deserve your business, anyhow.

BEAT
04-28-2008, 06:53 PM
This thread is so much better than dawn of souls.

I never thought reading about a video game could actually be better than playing a video game.

MCBanjoMike
04-28-2008, 07:38 PM
This made me laugh uncontrollably. And yeah, I always thought it was funny how these environment objects vanished when leaving the map screen.

You obviously never played King's Quest.

Hargrada
04-28-2008, 08:04 PM
Hey guys, it's time for me to replay the original Final Fantasy.

Not to spoil any future surprises or anything (i'm totally digging this thread), but i'm curious if your gonna try to kill Warmech when you reach the Sky Castle. I never encountered him in the original NES game, but I did fight him when I played the PS1 remake (can't really remember how hard the battle was). I'd be interested in what a FF1 "pro" thinks of that particular encounter and what strategies they would use (is he as hard as everyone makes him out to be).

Sven
04-28-2008, 08:07 PM
...especially these COCSUCKRs, who can petrify you with their attacks. I've got a few SOFT potions in reserve for just such an ocassion, but for now it's time to heroically RUN away!

There's an entire generation of game fans who can't look at ANY birds without descending into an irrational panic as a result of bullshit like this.

I'm amazed I haven't heard a "if you want extra gold, press B 55 times on the ship!" tip yet, frankly. Brickroad, you're the most miserly FF player I've ever encountered.

And it's Rat Tail -> Floater -> Kary, dammit.

MCBanjoMike
04-28-2008, 08:50 PM
There's an entire generation of game fans who can't look at ANY birds without descending into an irrational panic as a result of bullshit like this.

Oh god, every time I see a version of that sprite in a later FF game it terrified me. Most recently it was FF V, where they're pretty harmless, but you can bet I killed them as fast as humanly possible just to be sure.

Red Hedgehog
04-28-2008, 09:13 PM
There's an entire generation of game fans who can't look at ANY birds without descending into an irrational panic as a result of bullshit like this.

Ninja Gaiden was pretty key to the bird phobia as well.

PapillonReel
04-28-2008, 09:35 PM
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee231/PapillonReel/The_Birds_original_poster.jpg

Stiv
04-28-2008, 09:36 PM
I'd be interested in what a FF1 "pro" thinks of that particular encounter and what strategies they would use (is he as hard as everyone makes him out to be).

I'm not a pro, but I've played through the game enough times (and encountered Warmech often enough) to know that it's an extremely bad idea to fight it unless you're prepared to drop a SERIOUS amount of high-level spells right before a boss fight that's already pretty tough. You encounter Warmech, you run.

But if our FF1 host has an actual Warmech strategy that isn't repeated casting of NUKE (which he can't do anyway, Rd.MAGE usefulness tops out shortly after they become Rd.WIZARD) I'd be interested in knowing it.

Sven
04-28-2008, 09:52 PM
To beat Warmech, you essentially need... well, the Masamune makes things easy:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7jvwX23N6wI

But in this case, doing what Brick's doing means that you essentially have very little chance against Warmech other than FASTing the Master and hoping he gets three FASTed attacks in. Which is doable with repeated usage of the Heal Staff, but if he NUKEs twice in a row you're screwed.

Ample Vigour
04-28-2008, 10:51 PM
The Cockatrice transition between posts was genius, Brickroad. This stuff is a light in the darkness of finals week.

Brickroad
04-29-2008, 07:27 AM
Your HP seems a lot more consistent than what I had the last time I played it. My black belt and red mage had less than half the HP of my other two members throughout the entire game, and it kind of pissed me off. Was the original less random with HP gains? It's been so long since I've played it that I can't really remember.

My THIEF had slightly more HP for a couple levels, but now it's about even. If I had a FIGHTER or a Bl.BELT they would have more HP though, and a Bl.MAGE would have a lot less.

Do it! Flaunt your Final Fantasy ePenis proudly!

Dude what do you think this thread is even about?

I'd be interested in what a FF1 "pro" thinks of that particular encounter and what strategies they would use (is he as hard as everyone makes him out to be).

WarMECH is pretty crazy, totally the hardest fight in the game. We'll just have to wait and see!

I'm amazed I haven't heard a "if you want extra gold, press B 55 times on the ship!" tip yet, frankly. Brickroad, you're the most miserly FF player I've ever encountered.

Suxor. =(

Yeah, I did forget to showcase that "trick" didn't I? You get something like 100 GOLD for completing it. Dawn of Souls, of course, gives you way more.

People have played lowball games where the 15-slider puzzle was the primary way of gaining GOLD without gaining EXP, I shit you not. Can you imagine solving the puzzle 40 times to be able to afford a Silver Sword?

"The Birds"

When I was a kid it looked more like a severed claw with wings. I kind of like my mental image better.

The Cockatrice transition between posts was genius, Brickroad. This stuff is a light in the darkness of finals week.

Well, I am a genius. Thanks!

Onwards to adventure!


http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-184.png
On the other side of the world is Crescent Lake, home of the Circle of Sages and L6 magic. L6 magic is so far in my future I couldn't even see it with a crystal ball, but this here sage is so impressed that I toppled LICH he gives me a CANOE.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-185.png
Isn't it cute?

I'm supposed to take this CANOE and follow the river north through some mountains over to Gurgu Volcano to take on the FIEND of fire, but for the first time in the adventure I have more than one option open to me. Gurgu Volcano is far away, and is a really long dungeon with no good treasure in it, and the boss is really hard. So instead of heading there, I'm going to head for a shorter, easier dungeon with wuss bosses and a big pile of great loot. Take that, game!

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-187.png
With the CANOE I can now dock my SHIP at the mouths of rivers as well as at brick ports, enabling me to reach the Castle of Ordeal far away on the north continent. Note the castle is surrounded by swamp and forest. The nearest spot of plain grass is about four screens away, and the intervening territory is full of pretty strong monsters; that's where I'd have to land if I came to the castle by AIRSHIP. The river, on the other hand, dumps me right at the front door. This is the perfect spot to TENT up.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-188.png
It's never clearly explained what the CROWN has to do with this particular castle, and it's not possible to reach this place without the CROWN already lounging around in your inventory, so I've always just considered this NPC to be some kind of elaborate glitch and not a real part of the game.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-189.png
CROWN conspiracy or no, though, this dungeon is pretty crazy. As a for-instance, the vast majority of it takes place under the cushions of this giant couch.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-190.png
After climbing into the couch we are deposited into a maze of pillars. Stepping into a pillar warps you to another part of the maze. The trick to getting through quickly is to always take the bottom-most pillar, when given the choice.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-191.png
The Zeus Gauntlet is the first spellcasting item. When used in battle it casts LIT2 for free! This is going to sit in SKUB's inventory and replace his hammer as his default means of attack, meaning finally he will no longer be a waste of space.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-192.png
Here it is in action!

Learning which spellcasting items exist, and what they do, is an extremely important skill to learn. Most solo games simply wouldn't be possible without them! Of course, unless you're equipping the item in question it's going to eat up a slot on either your weapon or armor screen, so you can't simply dump all your magic items on one person and let them be a jack-of-all-trades. This is another area where Dawn of Souls is much easier than the original: your entire party has complete access to all of your magic items at all times, without having to unequip any of their gear to get to them.

I'll be pointing out all the important items as we go, and what they do, and what I'll use them for (or what they'd be used for if I had a need for them).

Brickroad
04-29-2008, 07:28 AM
http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-193.png
See? Brickroad keeps his promises. The very next treasure box has the second magic item, the Heal Staff. Using this in battle invokes the HEAL spell, which is about the equivalent of casting CURE on everyone. I'm going to give this to SKUB too and have him wave it around whenever people are low on HP. Combining a dedicated Heal Staff user (and really, what else is a Wh.MAGE good for?) with the rank-swapping strategy I keep advocating makes it possible for you to survive literally forever in dungeons. People have been able to farm multiple WarMECHs by doing this.

(What's a WarMECH, you ask? Ho ho ho, now we're getting ahead of ourselves. Ahem.)

Other treasures in the castle include a Gold Bracelet and an Ice Sword, both of which I will make good use of. The Ice Sword is the first weapon that is stronger than the Silver Sword, so if I'd spent a bunch of time around Elfland farming GOLD to buy Silver Swords, I'd now be replacing one. Incidentially, THIEFs can't use the Silver or Ice Swords, or anything better; the Dragon Sword ADAM has now will have to last him until his promotion.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-197.png
More undead bosses! Undead bosses are fantastic because they have two weaknesses I can exploit, and this party in particular has three characters who can exploit them. They're also the only bosses a Wh.MAGE can fight in his solo game without requiring the "double RUSE + infinite patience" strategy.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-198.png
The ZombieDs appear on a spiked square, so I can pop them as much as I like. Much like the MUMMYs back at ASTOS's crib these guys are worth a ton of EXP and GOLD for virtually zero effort. Sticking around fighting ZombieDs until my FIR2 and HRM2 charges are gone earns me L12 and puts me over halfway to L13 besides.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-199.png
The TAIL is the treasure of Castle Ordeal. Later on I'll have the option of trading this to BAHAMUT for promotions.

By the way, this is as good a time as any to ask... do you guys want me to go ahead with promotions? The difference is basically finishing the game with a team of chubby kids vs. finishing the game with a team of skinny grown-ups. Either way's all good with me.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-200.png
Now that SKUB is L12 he can start casting L5 magic. L5 white magic is probably the only spot in the game where, if it were possible to teach someone all four spells, I would do it. All of these spells are very cool. The problem with that of course is that they compete with each other for charges. I don't need HEL2 yet because I just got my Heal Staff, HRM2 is fine for the undead I've got coming up, and CUR3 isn't necessary yet especially considering I have two other CURE-casters and a huge pile of potions. LIFE is another situational spell; when you need it you really really need it, but quite possibly you never will.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-201.png
The next dungeon on my "I don't wanna go to the volcano!" checklist is the Ice Cave, which in some ways is the Marsh Cave on crack. It's full of annoying monsters, but instead of Poisoning you these ones have instant death attacks. Swarms of 8-9 COCTRICEs are not uncommon in here, and they're not even the worst of it. Unlike the Marsh Cave though I am well enough equipped that I can get in, take my treasure and get the hell out in one trip.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-202.png
Behold the SORCERER, big brother to the ZOIDBERG. So far we've seen monsters that Poison with a touch, Stun with a touch or Stone with a touch; SORCERERs flat out kill you. No damage, no bullshit, just a one-touch death. Even though I'm only up against one SORCERER here, you'd better believe I am going to RUN like the dickens rather than face off with him.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-203.png
Even that isn't enough though; the bastard manages to grope BOSS before we can get away. But lo! Here is UST #2! And this isn't something another character could have done, either; before the class change the only class that can cast LIFE are Wh.MAGEs. SKUB bringing BOSS back to life here helps keep BOSS from missing out on a bunch of EXP and makes it that much more likely we'll see daylight again safely.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-205.png
...well, for all the fat lot of good it did us. These MAGEs surprised me and raped me sideways by chain-casting RUB and LIT3. I might have been able to sneak by with two RUBbed characters, but LIT3 deals upwards of 230 damage to unprotected characters like mine. At least our corpses will be well-preserved.

Next: ?rewoP taerg evah uoy oD

Balrog
04-29-2008, 07:37 AM
Promote!!!!!


Ninjahood, here I come!

Octopus Prime
04-29-2008, 07:41 AM
I didn't realize you could go through the Castle of Ordeals without the Airship.

HEY GUYS I LEARNED SOMETHING NEW TODAY!

Also, I'm torn with regard to Promotion with your current party. One the one hand I always Promote (except for the one time I didn't). On the other, with that party set up, we're going to be looking at a pretty monochromatic team for the duration of the game.

Sven
04-29-2008, 08:04 AM
WarMECH is pretty crazy, totally the hardest fight in the game. We'll just have to wait and see!

Geez, I mistook your Thief for a Black Belt when I was looking at it earlier. Hm... now I'm trying to figure out how you'd beat him short of RUBing.


People have played lowball games where the 15-slider puzzle was the primary way of gaining GOLD without gaining EXP, I shit you not. Can you imagine solving the puzzle 40 times to be able to afford a Silver Sword?

Doesn't stun me, as the only other option would be to hope you miraculously stumble into a repeated stream of KOZAKUs, as they're the only enemies in the game I can think of with a distorted enough EXP / Gold ratio to pull it off.

It's never clearly explained what the CROWN has to do with this particular castle, and it's not possible to reach this place without the CROWN already lounging around in your inventory, so I've always just considered this NPC to be some kind of elaborate glitch and not a real part of the game.

I've always wondered if this was somehow Square's way of bug-proofing the game somewhat, so if you managed to get out of the inner sea early you'd be forced to go back and kill off Astos.

Or it's just a nice little callback, and a reminder that items you got earlier in the game aren't totally useless later on, in spite of all appearances (... hint, hint....)

The Zeus Gauntlet is the first spellcasting item. When used in battle it casts LIT2 for free! This is going to sit in SKUB's inventory and replace his hammer as his default means of attack, meaning finally he will no longer be a waste of space.

For those of you keeping track, this is the point the game switches over from "pretty tough" to "only instant death will be able to stop your party." Turning even your most useless mage into a LIT2 machine is a bit absurd, and only an incredible intolerance for the LIT spell sound effect prevented me from using it every round for the remainder of the game.

And, yeah, this is indeed a big issue with Dawn of Souls, as if the magic system wasn't bad enough.

See? Brickroad keeps his promises. The very next treasure box has the second magic item, the Heal Staff.

And this one's even more of an invitation to abuse, although it tends to prolong fights for no good reason. On the other hand, that does cut down your magic use to virtually nothing, which is a big-time help.

People have been able to farm multiple WarMECHs by doing this.

Doesn't stun me - that 1/64 chance gives you plenty of scrub battles to heal up on between beating him up.

They're also the only bosses a Wh.MAGE can fight in his solo game without requiring the "double RUSE + infinite patience" strategy.

Aw, that's not fair - a White Mage can totally take down LICH or the Vampire if he's got enough HRM3 shots.

By the way, this is as good a time as any to ask... do you guys want me to go ahead with promotions? The difference is basically finishing the game with a team of chubby kids vs. finishing the game with a team of skinny grown-ups. Either way's all good with me.


Interesting thought - I'd say go for the promotion, as the Ninja is too much fun not to have around. And I want to see the last boss killed by FADE.

I don't need HEL2 yet because I just got my Heal Staff,

Except *this* version of the spell is actually HEL3 thanks to a beneficial bit of incompetent programming. I'd still rank it 4th amongst these, as anything that turns a white mage into even a situational attacker is invaluable in my books.

On the other hand, in a post-Zeus-Gauntlet world... yeah, probably safe to skip it. I think I'd go (1) Life (2 ) CUR3 [admittedly not very useful in battle, as anything powerful enough to need that much of a single-shot cure at this point is likely to kill you anyway) (3) HEL2 (4) HRM3 if forced to rank them.

Swarms of 8-9 COCTRICEs are not uncommon in here, and they're not even the worst of it. Unlike the Marsh Cave though I am well enough equipped that I can get in, take my treasure and get the hell out in one trip.

Or so you think. Muah.

Behold the SORCERER, big brother to the ZOIDBERG. So far we've seen monsters that Poison with a touch, Stun with a touch or Stone with a touch; SORCERERs flat out kill you.

I hate the Cockatrice's more (because if you win those fights, you're out more money), but these guys are another shocking "... what the hell?" enemy for a first-time player.

EDIT: Wait, I'm assuming you're going to not even bother with the Volcano for a good long while, right? The Waterfall has the RUSE-casting sword, which although invaluable for a solo game is nevertheless handy to keep around with this party.

Ample Vigour
04-29-2008, 08:08 AM
Promotions? PROMOTIONS!

TheSL
04-29-2008, 08:40 AM
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/af1081/Blue-Zoidberg-2.jpg
Behold the BLUEZOIDBERG, big brother to the ZOIDBERG.

Sorry, couldn't find a good image from the actual episode and my DVDs are at home.

Zef
04-29-2008, 09:15 AM
Yeah, I did forget to showcase that "trick" didn't I? You get something like 100 GOLD for completing it. Dawn of Souls, of course, gives you way more.

People have played lowball games where the 15-slider puzzle was the primary way of gaining GOLD without gaining EXP, I shit you not. Can you imagine solving the puzzle 40 times to be able to afford a Silver Sword?

I can. When I was 11-ish and new to the game, I actually calculated the what the most efficient Elfland Grind method was, in terms of time spent figting OGREs and whatnot, versus Sliding Tile Puzzle solving. I figured I needed X amount of money to buy everything I wanted, so I'd need either Y battles or Z puzzles (EXP was a non-issue.) But battles take a relatively fixed A time, whereas the puzzle could take a variable B time. That's the afternoon I learned about probability curves and differentials instead of doing fifth-grade Math homework.

And I'm sorry, but I find it perversely amusing that you successfully ran from the BANE* of my existence, the SORCERER, while I never had any trouble with MAGEs.

Hmm. That reminds me --just what is the modern equivalent of being RUBbed off? I figure ZAP!=X-Zone/Banish, XXXX=Death, NUKE=Flare (thanks, FF4,) and FADE=Holy. Is RUB simply one of those spells that, like many of the support and buffing spells in FF1, simply went away after the first installment?


* That sword was my Black Wizard's bread and butter throughout the endgame, as I tried to conserve his charges. Likewise, I gave the Light Axe and Zeus Gauntlet to the Ninja, and Thor's Hammer and White Shirt to the White Wiz.

TheSL
04-29-2008, 09:18 AM
Is RUB simply one of those spells that, like many of the support and buffing spells in FF1, simply went away after the first installment?

Most of those buff spells still exist in Final Fantasy XI, though I wouldn't expect most people to know that.

Sven
04-29-2008, 09:50 AM
just what is the modern equivalent of being RUBbed off?

That annoying Circle spell that Omega used in FFV comes to mind. You're not dead, you're just... elsewhere.

Tomm Guycot
04-29-2008, 09:57 AM
This is the best active thread on Talking Time.

shivam
04-29-2008, 10:01 AM
promote! ninjas!

Eirikr
04-29-2008, 11:00 AM
*applauds Brickroad*

Every death in the Ice Cave must be documented.

PapillonReel
04-29-2008, 11:24 AM
*applauds Brickroad*

Every death in the Ice Cave must be documented.

This. Also, you should totally base whether or not to promote based on which will make the game harder. Can you beat WARMECH using only two RedMAGEs, a WhMAGE and a THIEF?

Brickroad
04-29-2008, 11:39 AM
Doesn't stun me, as the only other option would be to hope you miraculously stumble into a repeated stream of KOZAKUs, as they're the only enemies in the game I can think of with a distorted enough EXP / Gold ratio to pull it off.

No miracle required. Due to the way the encounter list works, save your game in Coneria, hard reset (POWER off and on, don't just push RESET) sail south, and your first fight will be KOZAKUs every time. The encounter list in FF1 is non-random.

I don't have it memorized, but some of the more extreme lowballers do. As an example, knowing where you are on the encounter list can enable to you avoid a team of SORCERERs in the Ice Cave by sticking around the previous floor for one extra fight and RUNing from a COCTRICE/MUMMY group instead.

BLUEZOIDBERG

Actually to keep within FF1's space restrictions they'd more likely be BlueZOIDs.

I can. When I was 11-ish and new to the game, I actually calculated the what the most efficient Elfland Grind method was, in terms of time spent figting OGREs and whatnot, versus Sliding Tile Puzzle solving. I figured I needed X amount of money to buy everything I wanted, so I'd need either Y battles or Z puzzles (EXP was a non-issue.) But battles take a relatively fixed A time, whereas the puzzle could take a variable B time. That's the afternoon I learned about probability curves and differentials instead of doing fifth-grade Math homework.

Nerd!

This. Also, you should totally base whether or not to promote based on which will make the game harder. Can you beat WARMECH using only two RedMAGEs, a WhMAGE and a THIEF?

I don't want to out-and-out say I can't, but it would involve a sick amount of powerleveling. The ability for my RedWIZs to cast RUSE, plus the obvious advantages of a NINJA over a THIEF, will be critical in the fight, to say nothing of the fact that my team pre-promotion won't have any way of returning with the Masmune once I've gone into the final dungeon.

Ample Vigour
04-29-2008, 12:25 PM
extreme lowballers

Extreme FF Lowballers needs to be a porn spam title right now.

McDohl
04-29-2008, 12:50 PM
It's never clearly explained what the CROWN has to do with this particular castle, and it's not possible to reach this place without the CROWN already lounging around in your inventory, so I've always just considered this NPC to be some kind of elaborate glitch and not a real part of the game.

Nah, you're just interpreting it wrong.

This is exposition for as to why ASTOS wanted the CROWN. He wanted to go Castle of Ordeals to get a TAIL, so BAHAMUT can promote him.

Can you imagine what a promoted ASTOS would be like?

-shudder-

Falselogic
04-29-2008, 12:59 PM
Nah, you're just interpreting it wrong.

This is exposition for as to why ASTOS wanted the CROWN. He wanted to go Castle of Ordeals to get a TAIL, so BAHAMUT can promote him.

Can you imagine what a promoted ASTOS would be like?

-shudder-

That must be it, that is an ugly image though...

Alixsar
04-29-2008, 12:59 PM
Make Adam a ninja. You know you want to.

Zef
04-29-2008, 01:03 PM
Can you imagine what a promoted ASTOS would be like?

If FF4 taught us anything...

http://www.the-weaving.com/images/temp/Dark%20Elf.gif ---(promotions!)---> http://www.the-weaving.com/images/temp/Dark%20Dragon.gif

Falselogic
04-29-2008, 01:17 PM
If FF4 taught us anything...

http://www.the-weaving.com/images/temp/Dark%20Elf.gif ---(promotions!)---> http://www.the-weaving.com/images/temp/Dark%20Dragon.gif

Because that makes total sense...

Sven
04-29-2008, 01:25 PM
The ability for my RedWIZs to cast RUSE, plus the obvious advantages of a NINJA over a THIEF, will be critical in the fight, to say nothing of the fact that my team pre-promotion won't have any way of returning with the Masmune once I've gone into the final dungeon.

Good point. That was a mean trick, not allowing you to just walk back out of the place. And you have to fight multiple bosses if you don't have WARP or EXIT.

Additionally, as useless as Black Mages generally are, they're the only mage that has a non-Masmune'd shot at damaging Warmech. Maybe a combination of the defence sword, a RUSE-friendly White Mage, and some extreme luck would make it possible for your group doing it naturally, but I'm inclined to think not.

Octopus Prime
04-29-2008, 01:51 PM
If FF4 taught us anything...

http://www.the-weaving.com/images/temp/Dark%20Elf.gif ---(promotions!)---> http://www.the-weaving.com/images/temp/Dark%20Dragon.gif

That wouldn't be so bad. Just smack him with Wind and then just about anything else. Problem solved.

Falselogic
04-29-2008, 02:30 PM
Do you play through FF every year? If so, I'm curious what your motiviations are, and how do you overcome the boredom that some of these old games can induce?

Also, do you have any plans to do something like this with the next game you plan on playing?

shivam
04-29-2008, 02:31 PM
well, when you speed the game up in an emulator, it cuts the 30 hours to about 10.

Falselogic
04-29-2008, 02:35 PM
well, when you speed the game up in an emulator, it cuts the 30 hours to about 10.

How do you know he's speeding things up, I don't remember him saying
that anywhere...

TheSL
04-29-2008, 02:35 PM
Maybe I should start up a Dragon Quest 1 thread to compete with this one...

Falselogic
04-29-2008, 02:37 PM
Maybe I should start up a Dragon Quest 1 thread to compete with this one...

If it was insightful and fun as Brick's has been so far... I've never beaten Dragon Warrio... I mean Dragon Quest

Balrog
04-29-2008, 02:38 PM
Maybe I should start up a Dragon Quest 1 thread to compete with this one...

I don't think you got the stones, Mr.TheSL.

shivam
04-29-2008, 02:40 PM
i was thinking about it, but i'd probably forget to take screenshots.

TheSL
04-29-2008, 02:47 PM
I think I'll post a poll to gauge interest and maybe do it starting when Brick's is done if I get enough responses.

nadia
04-29-2008, 02:48 PM
I was never any good at Final Fantasy one, but I used to pwn Dragon Warrior left, right and centre.

Shivam, your icon is staring into my soul.

Brickroad
04-29-2008, 02:49 PM
Do you play through FF every year?

I've played through some form of FF1 at least once a year for as long as I've owned an NES. I don't really plan it out, it just sort of happens like that. It's not the only FF or even the only RPG I've replayed over and over either; I've probably averaged a yearly playthrough of FF4 for as long as it's been out, and it always seems as though I'm knee-deep in a replay of either Suikoden 1 or 2.

If so, I'm curious what your motiviations are, and how do you overcome the boredom that some of these old games can induce?

You never stop loving the games you grew up with. I'm always playing the good old games. It's hard to get bored playing when you're so steeped in nostalgia.

It is weird though, because if I go back to play a game from that era for the first time I often can't get into it. That's why I thought this might be a neat idea, it seems like there's lots of people who enjoy taking in the experience but don't want to actually play the game.

Keep in mind too that the most boring aspect of FF1 (the grinding) is absent from my playstyle. Part of why I don't get bored is because I don't spend time doing boring things.

Also, do you have any plans to do something like this with the next game you plan on playing?

It's fun, but it's a lot more work than I thought it'd be. I won't say I'll never do another one of these, but I won't make any promises either.

Note: I'm not using any emulator tricks at all; no save states, no speedup, no nothing except the screencap button. Well okay, I mapped the Xbox's Y button to the NES's Turbo A and put something heavy on it to buy my HEALs for me, but hell, we used to do that back in the day too.

Sven
04-29-2008, 02:56 PM
If so, I'm curious what your motiviations are, and how do you overcome the boredom that some of these old games can induce?

FF1 is different because your various playthroughs are going to be dramatically different depending on the party you choose to make your way through the game. So Brick's Red - Red - White - Thief party is going to turn into a much different game than if he chooses next time to, say, go Master - Thief - White - Black.

Plus, there's the potential to either play it the Nintendo Power route or go with the sequence-breaking Brickroad's doing. It's probably the most flexible path to the endgame in Final Fantasy until the second half of FFVI, even if most of the time the difference between what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do is a vast chasm filled with death.

I've probably beaten it seven or eight times myself (twice originally, twice in undergrad, twice in law school, once since then). There's something to be said about a Square game that just lets you sit back and fight things, with the story only intruding on your time once or twice.

Brickroad, another reminder: if you survive the Ice Cave, you owe us a dissection of the Peninsula of Power (and why it's not really worth it compared to the other powerlevelling places already highlighted)

Odin
04-29-2008, 04:36 PM
Actually to keep within FF1's space restrictions they'd more likely be BlueZOIDs.


Wouldn't they most likely be BlZOID?

Thanks to this thread, in my next game I will a) use a Red Mage and b) not touch the PNEOP.

Keep up the awesome commentary!

Alex Scott
04-29-2008, 04:50 PM
Hmm. That reminds me --just what is the modern equivalent of being RUBbed off? I figure ZAP!=X-Zone/Banish, XXXX=Death, NUKE=Flare (thanks, FF4,) and FADE=Holy. Is RUB simply one of those spells that, like many of the support and buffing spells in FF1, simply went away after the first installment?
I'm not sure, but if I remember correctly from playing the Wonderswan version in Japanese and then the PS1 version in English, RUB is Death, XXXX is Kill, ZAP! is Banish, and FADE is, yes, very Holy. Nintendo's censors strike again!

I don't think I even knew what FADE did until Parish made that Religion in Gaming feature. Until then, I thought it was some stupid instant-kill spell that would never work except on me. Afterwards, I tried it out, and thought, "Holy crap, you mean I have another stupidly powerful lv 8 spell?" Chaos became a relative breeze compared to before.

When I did play the WS version, I actually made a list of every monster I encountered and assigned them their English names. Two surprising things: just about every monster had its name changed except for a few random enemies and most of the bosses, and the PIRATEs and KYZOKUs simply had their names switched. The bosses were "Kaizoku" and the random enemies were "Pairetsu."

(fun fact: the only reason I even know what "kaizoku" means is because the first anime I ever purchased was a bootlegged fansub of the FF OAV, and right there, in ep. 1, Linaly clearly says, "Kaizoku?")

Part of me simply adores WarMECH's Japanese name: Death Machine!!!

Eirikr
04-29-2008, 04:53 PM
Brickroad, another reminder: if you survive the Ice Cave, you owe us a dissection of the Peninsula of Power (and why it's not really worth it compared to the other powerlevelling places already highlighted)

Wait, the Peninsula of Power is totally worth it - but only until you finish with the Elfland saga. You can pretty easily get to level 16 in a flash, but not without a lot of restarts and a heaping mound of rotting ZomBULLs.

nadia
04-29-2008, 04:55 PM
Wait, the Peninsula of Power is totally worth it - but only until you finish with the Elfland saga. You can pretty easily get to level 16 in a flash, but not without a lot of restarts and a heaping mound of rotting ZomBULLs.

ZomBULL Energy Drink gives you leprosy.

Brickroad
04-29-2008, 05:46 PM
Adventure etc.!


http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-167.png
Ice Cave, take two! I grabbed a screenshot of this floor for no reason other than I think it is cute.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-168.png
Unfortunately, take two is as doomed an effort as take one. This is just how the Ice Cave goes, sometimes, and there's nothing you can really do to make it any easier. It's just a matter of saving outside and throwing yourself at it until you get lucky enough to avoid the COCTRICEs and SORCERERs and WRAITHs and MAGEs and huge packs of ZOIDBERGs that roam within.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-177.png
The Flame Sword is a little weaker than the Ice Sword, but it's still a good weapon. I'll give this one to EDIT, so now (once again) my two RedMAGEs make poor ADAM look like a chump. The treasure box in the middle is the one I need to get, but as you can see I can't get there from here. I have to jump into one of these holes, climb back up from the floor below, and then jump into a second hole to land near it.

Now's as good a time as any to point out that the code that makes magic swords target certain weaknesses (for example, the Flame Sword hitting ice enemies for more damage) is bugged, so the only difference between the various types of weapons are the DAMAGE and HIT stats. Well, and the fact that some cast spells when used; neither the Ice nor Flame Sword does, however.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-169.png
The Ice Cave is home to huge packs of undead, mainly gangs of IMAGEs, WRAITHs and GEISTs. All of these monsters can Stun you, and the WRAITHs in particular hit pretty hard. RUNning from these fights is a total crapshoot if you don't get the first strike, so my strategy to deal with them is to FIR2/FIR2/HRM2 and mop them up.

This particular pack was on a spiked square right next to where I landed after jumping into the hole on the floor above. It sets me up with L13, but I'm not going to celebrate about that too soon.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-176.png
ARGH. These ZOIDBERGs apparently hold a grudge against me for having slaughtered dozens of their comrades. My plan of attack would have been to LIT2/LIT2/Zeus Gauntlet, but they surprised me and landed a few choice Criticals. Like I said, the Ice Cave just goes like this sometimes.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-178.png
In addition to the Flame Sword the Ice Cave has a pretty absurd amount of treasure in it. That room you see in the bottom left corner of the screen contains something like 40000 GOLD. Of course, every step taken in the Ice Cave is another chance to run into LIT3-casting MAGEs or huge teams of SORCERERs, to say nothing of the square spiked with Frost Ds, so I'm going to play the smart hand here and leave it lay. By the time I'm adequately protected from the terrors of this place I won't have any use for it anyway.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-179.png
Here's my second hole, the FLOATER is just underneath me.

That staircase you see is the exit to the cave. If my luck holds I'll be back on this floor later.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-180.png
I somehow managed to not get a goddamned screenshot of the EYE, the Ice Cave's boss. It opens with XXXX, which is similar to RUB except for... actually, come to think of it, I don't know how XXXX is different from RUB. Anyway, it goes on to cast BRAK (which stones; i.e. another insta-death), and then just because you can't beat the classics, good ol' RUB itself. EYEs have very little HP, and I manage to land all my hits before this one gets a chance to XXXX me.

Like most of the bosses so far, the EYE sits on a spiked square I can pop over and over. In a solo game, once you have the ability to protect yourself from all the death attacks, the EYE nets you a whopping 3000+ EXP every fight and is almost trivial to kill repeatedly. BERT the Bl.BELT made good use of this square back in the day.

Anyway, here's my FLOATER, but as you've probably guessed the Ice Cave isn't ready to let me go. To get to the exit I have to jump back in one of these holes, fight my way through the spiked undead square again, and get to that staircase without getting pwned by SORCERERs or MAGEs.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-181.png
Unfortunately, BOSS doesn't make it through the undead fight, putting her about 900 EXP behind everyone else. I technically shouldn't count this as UST #3 since the previous one ended up not counting anyway, but I've got the FLOATER in my hands and I'm in a generous mood.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-206.png
Precious, wonderful, beautiful daylight! I think this screen right here has a good shot at winning Most Welcome Sight in an FF1 Playthrough. It's time to HOUSE, and then the fun begins!

Brickroad
04-29-2008, 05:47 PM
http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-207.png
I CANOE back to my SHIP and sail south of Crescent Lake to a small desert, where I can make some serious magic happen. This screen is probably a close second in the Most Welcome Sight in an FF1 Playthrough contest.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-208.png
Huzzah! AIRSHIP!

Okay, okay, I've dicked around long enough, it's Volcano time...

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-209.png
...not! Honestly, I wasn't kidding when I said there's nothing worth getting in the Volcano. The treasure is crap, the dungeon is long, and I don't yet have the resources to take on the boss. Getting the AIRSHIP opens up the world for me now similar to how getting the KEY opened up so many things for me a couple of adventures ago. A bounty of treasure awaits me!

This filler screenshot is the notorious PNEOP, which you can reach by walking northeast of Pravoka. The landmass you see to my north is home to the strongest monsters you can face on the FF1 overworld, and some careless programmer managed to drag the encounter area a few tiles too far to the south. What this means is that on the top four squares of this peninsula you can fight powerful monsters like FrWOLFs, GIANTs, ZomBULLs, TYROs and more. The idea is to pack a bunch of TENTs, hike up here and rake in large amounts of EXP relatively early in the game. I don't like the PNEOP because before ASTOS you can level on the ocean and after ASTOS you can level on the MUMMYs, both of which are way easier to farm than desperately trying to get a MUTE spell off before some FrWOLFs take you apart with their magical attacks.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-210.png
The armor shop in the town of Gaia has some pretty incredible stuff for sale. ProRings count as gloves, and everybody can equip them. They protect against every type of instant death attack you can dream up. Hey! I know a dungeon it would have been handy to have a few of these for! *gunshot*

There are more pressing concerns for my money at the moment, however, so those ProRings will have to wait.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-211.png
This square is cool because 1) it's the only desert tile in the game you can land the AIRSHIP on and 2) it's the only land-able tile that teleports you to a new map. Namely, the OASIS.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-212.png
The BOTTLE is the one and only item you are required to buy to finish the game. It's also the only item the OASIS has; once you buy it, it disappears forever... at least in the NES version. In Dawn of Souls the caravan guy sticks around to sell you a variety of Tonics that increase your stats temporarily in battle. Stockpiling those Tonics was how I managed to kill all the optional super-bosses with my magic-less party of four THIEFs.

"Hey Brick, this is an NES playthrough, nobody gives a shit about your Dawn of Souls triumphs!" Right, sorry...

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-214.png
Like most BOTTLEs, this one contains a fairy, and opening it causes her to flitter off to her lovely spring back in Gaia. Hey, the NES-era Nintendo censors and I have this in common: back in the day neither of us knew the OXYALE was actually a booze reference! See, it's beer that gives you air! Pretty clever, huh?

The whole point of the OXYALE is to able to breathe underwater, which will come in handy when it's time to go treasure hunting in the Sea Shrine later.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-216.png
Our next stop is the Islands of Cardia, a series of caves which holds a decent amount of free, safe treasure.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-215.png
It's also home to the canniest race of capitalist dragons in the FF1 world. I guess he won't be investing in any dotcoms ha ha amirite?

Next: Are we going to become bubbles?

Sanagi
04-29-2008, 05:49 PM
Sigh. I did it. I started a file. I blame this thread for all the procrastination and anguish that ensues. I've got a default party(Fi/Th/BB/RM), names of Bonk, Take, Wack, and Bang. Haven't attempted the Marsh Cave yet.

No miracle required. Due to the way the encounter list works, save your game in Coneria, hard reset (POWER off and on, don't just push RESET) sail south, and your first fight will be KOZAKUs every time. The encounter list in FF1 is non-random.
I may actually use this trick.

Zef
04-29-2008, 05:56 PM
Like most of the bosses so far, the EYE sits on a spiked square I can pop over and over. In a solo game, once you have the ability to protect yourself from all the death attacks, the EYE nets you a whopping 3000+ EXP every fight and is almost trivial to kill repeatedly. BERT the Bl.BELT made good use of this square back in the day.

I also used and abused the EYE after completing the Floating Castle, last few times I played, as it was the absolute best place to level up (any of the Warriors could one-shot the EYE by then, it yielded lots of monies and EXP, and it was easily accessible.) Of course, by then, the Light Warriors were all grow'd up and wearing eye-shadow, so the Ice Cave was completely trivial by that point.

Also, I realize now that the Elfland Grind and Gurgu Volcano must have given me enough levels to withstand the horrors of the Ice Cave... or, at least, to decrease the probability of a BlueZOID landing a successful brain-sucking OHK. I definitely don't remember it being anywhere this difficult.

The armor shop in the town of Gaia has some pretty incredible stuff for sale. ProRings count as shields, and everybody can equip them. They protect against every type of instant death attack you can dream up. Hey! I know a dungeon it would have been handy to have a few of these for! *gunshot*

I know for a fact that it wouldn't have helped. That SORCERER encounter in the Temple of Fiends, the one I keep mentioning? I had EVERYONE wearing Pro Rings, and the brain-sucking still landed. I was so mad at the time, I grabbed the NP Strat Guide and crossed out the Pro Ring's description with a "NOT TRUE!"

I guess it only works with actual spells, such as RUB, BRAK, and XXXX. I remember that CRACK still worked nicely against the Pro Ring, though.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-211.png
This square is cool because 1) it's the only desert tile in the game you can land the AIRSHIP on

OH MY GOD.

OH MY GOD I DID NOT KNOW THAT.

I NEVER KNEW THAT. GODDAMMIT, NINTENDO POWER, YOU MADE ME HIKE ACROSS THE DESERT. THE BLOOD OF COUNTLESS MANTICORES AND CHIMERAS SHALL STAIN YOUR PAGES.

Alex Scott
04-29-2008, 07:23 PM
Question: has anyone here ever encountered a T REX? They're quite possibly the only monster I have never encountered in any version of FFI (excluding the ones added for Dawn of Souls, o'course). Brickroad, if you encounter one, I demand a screenshot, simply as proof they exist.

SpoonyGundam
04-29-2008, 07:35 PM
Fun Fact: ProRings don't protect againt BANE or BRAK.

Also, my favorite thing about the PNEOP is that in all of the hundreds of millions of times Square has remade the game, no matter how many other bugs they've fixed or how many gameplay mechanics they've changed in that particular version, they have never changed the PNEOP. I'll usually get a couple levels there whenever I play the game simply out of respect to its legacy.

PapillonReel
04-29-2008, 07:41 PM
Unrelated to the PRORings talk (and quite a bit ways late), but someone compiled a list of every party configuration possible (http://www.ffclassic.net/parties), all of which you can vote on in terms of usability. Thought it was worth the mention.

Alex Scott
04-29-2008, 07:47 PM
Fun Fact: ProRings don't protect againt BANE or BRAK.

Also, my favorite thing about the PNEOP is that in all of the hundreds of millions of times Square has remade the game, no matter how many other bugs they've fixed or how many gameplay mechanics they've changed in that particular version, they have never changed the PNEOP. I'll usually get a couple levels there whenever I play the game simply out of respect to its legacy.
They even put a Peninsula of Power in FFII, and as far as I can tell, it's survived every remake as well. Of course, given the wonky leveling system in FFII, its effect isn't quite the same.

BEAT
04-29-2008, 08:31 PM
Anyway, it goes on to cast BRAK

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51a8N4ak83L.jpg

Haw haw!

nadia
04-29-2008, 08:52 PM
I've seen pics of the EYE. It looks like Kang...or Kodos.

What does PENOP refer to?

shivam
04-29-2008, 09:04 PM
Peninsula of Power

Stiv
04-29-2008, 10:06 PM
Question: has anyone here ever encountered a T REX?

Shitloads of them. I remember them actually being fairly easy compared to the rest of the monsters chillin' out in the desert.

This is making me want to try a solo run of FF1, even though I've got like 4000 other games on my plate right now. What's the best character for that, a Red Mage?

PapillonReel
04-29-2008, 10:26 PM
Probably, since they can heal, attack and burn all at once.

Ample Vigour
04-29-2008, 10:41 PM
I NEVER KNEW THAT. GODDAMMIT, NINTENDO POWER, YOU MADE ME HIKE ACROSS THE DESERT. THE BLOOD OF COUNTLESS MANTICORES AND CHIMERAS SHALL STAIN YOUR PAGES.

Brickroad's unstated lesson is that Nintendo Power wants you to suffer.

Sven
04-30-2008, 07:27 AM
Probably, since they can heal, attack and burn all at once.

Either that or a Fighter, since all you'd basically be doing in every battle would be holding down A until the opponent died, and you eventually do gain some rudimentary healing. The catch is that you'd have ONE shot at the final dungeon, as a Knight can't use EXIT.

Supposedly a Master can wipe out Chaos with a couple of turns, though. It's just much harder getting there, as your damage absorbs aren't nearly as high.

I guess it only works with actual spells, such as RUB, BRAK, and XXXX. I remember that CRACK still worked nicely against the Pro Ring, though.

Technically anything can work even against the ProRing, as there's something like a 1/265 chance of an instant-death spell getting through. I think it's happened to me once.

Brickroad
04-30-2008, 08:13 AM
Seems to be some confusion as to how ProRings work. They only protect you against unclassed death attacks; RUB, XXXX, BlueZOID's added effect, that sort of thing. For elemental death attacks (like BANE, QAKE and CRACK) you need to have a Ribbon. Either way, like Sven said, attacks still have a shot at getting through, something like 1/256. There is no such thing as perfect immunity in FF1, as BERT the Bl.BELT found out the hard way when he was farming EYEs.

This is even true for the FIENDs. You could theoretically RUB out the final boss if you wanted to invest all your resources in pounding out that last dungeon just for a 1/256 crapshoot, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Question: has anyone here ever encountered a T REX? They're quite possibly the only monster I have never encountered in any version of FFI (excluding the ones added for Dawn of Souls, o'course). Brickroad, if you encounter one, I demand a screenshot, simply as proof they exist.

I can't remember ever seeing one in the NES version, but I've seen them in the PSX and GBA versions. It's one of the three rarest monsters in the game (along with the IronGOL and the WarMECH). Difference is, you encounter it on the overworld rather than in a dungeon, and in the endgame you don't spend a lot of time on the overworld.

someone compiled a list of every party configuration possible (http://www.ffclassic.net/parties), all of which you can vote on in terms of usability. Thought it was worth the mention.

That list is missing some parties, like FIGHTER/(dead)/(dead)/(dead) (ie: a FIGHTER solo). I would definitely rank some of the easier solos as better overall than some of the hardest full teams.

HI MY NAME IS BRAK

Well played sir! But in case anyone's wondering, BRAK is the FF1 version of Break, which Stones a target.

This is making me want to try a solo run of FF1, even though I've got like 4000 other games on my plate right now. What's the best character for that, a Red Mage?

FIGHTER, hands down. It's by far the easiest solo game.

Adventure to onward!

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-218.png
You cats have like a mega-hardon for NINJAs, so I'll go ahead and get promoted. First of all, if all it takes to prove to BAHAMUT that you'rE deserving of high honor is a rat TAIL, I should think I could have found one in, say, the Coneria Castle cellar rather than having to fight through a labyrinth of magical pillars.

Secondly, let it not be said of the King of Dragons that fool ain't ready for hurricane season. There are like seventy candles on screen here, and the throne room stretches south for like two more screens. Have you ever actually tried lighting that many candles? It takes dedication.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-219.png
Class change, baby! You won't hear me complaining. Here's a quick breakdown of what all new stuff I get.

My RedWizs now have access to several spells they didn't before: RUSE, LIFE and WARP among them. In addition, they'll now be able to learn magic spells L6 and higher, something puny RedMAGEs can never hope to do. That's, uh, it actually. That's the dark secret of RedWizs; they kinda suck. Jacks of all trades, masters of none, the RedMAGE is awesome early in the game when he can swing a sword well and cast both kinds of magic, but towards endgame their equipment selection and spell charges are both lagging behind. They can't learn L8 magic at all, and they get L6 and L7 magic so prohibitively late as to be almost useless.

SKUB the Wh.Wiz can now learn L8 magic (once he gets the charges, anyway) and a few sub-L8 spells he couldn't get before -- most notably EXIT. That's pretty much it, and it'd be the same story for a Bl.Wiz if I had one in my group.

ADAM gets by far the greatest buff out of everyone; NINJAs can use virtually any weapon and can learn black magic up to L4. In other words he can equip some of the game's best weapons and then FAST himself. He can also start equipping heavy helmets and shields, making him my best front-line choice.

I don't have any FIGHTERs, but if I did they'd be promoted to KNIGHTs, gain the ability to equip some more gear (most notably Xcalbur) and cast L1-3 white magic.

I don't have any Bl.BELTs either, but their promotion into MASTERs is inconsequential since they gain absolutely nothing. I think his stat gains actually decrease after promotion, but really, who cares about boring things like stat gains when everyone else is getting new equipment and new magic?

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-220.png
The first thing I'm going to do, of course, is give ADAM the best of my three swords, now that he can equip it. EDIT will only have to make do with the weakling Dragon Sword until the next dungeon, so don't pity him too much.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-222.png
Near the OASIS on the northwest continent is this river that leads up to the town of Onrac. CANOEing past Onrac will take me to the Waterfall, my next destination. River creatures are notorious for being stronger than typical land creatures; you can see the hurt these GATORs put on ADAM before I made handbags out of them and took L14 for my troubles. BOSS is behind everyone in EXP thanks to that Ice Cave mishap, but some NITEMAREs early in the Waterfall bring her up to speed.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-223.png
Here's the Waterfall, possibly the easiest dungeon in the game. Even the Temple of the Fiends carries the risk of throwing a big gaggle of GrWOLFs at you before GARLAND, you know.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-224.png
The Waterfall is only one floor, but it's kind of wind-y and maze-y. There is only one single treasure room, inside which is this robot. He's actually a renegade from the FLOATING CASTLE, a dungeon I'll need this CUBE to enter later.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-225.png
The treasures here are pretty wonderful. Among them is the Defense Sword, one of the most useful weapons you can find in the game. Not only is it more powerful than anything else I have at the moment (note that it pushes ADAM's HIT up over 64%, meaning he's now capable of 3 Hits), but it casts RUSE when used in combat. Every single solo game relies on RUSE for protection from the bosses in the latter half of the game, and even if you're not going to equip the thing it's not a bad idea to leave it sit in your party leader's inventory so they can add that extra line of protection in the rough fights.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-226.png
We also find our first Ribbon, the best piece of headgear in the game. Equipping the Ribbon makes you resistant (but not immune) to most status effects and elemental attacks. In other words, if I'd had this back in the Ice Cave I could have had one person survive those relentless LIT3s.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-228.png
The same treasure room nets me the Wizard Staff, a spellcasting item that uses CONF. CONF is L4 black magic that attempts to confuse enemies, and if it were a useful effect I would have bought the spell back in Elfland. Instead I'm going to sell this thing for fat lewt. Speaking of fat lewt, there's nearly 30000 in raw GOLD in these boxes at well. Looting the Waterfall is mandatory (because you need the CUBE) but even if it weren't I'd come out here as soon as possible for all this great stuff.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-229.png
Hey, did you know my CANOE was a magical CANOE that can be rowed up waterfalls!? There's nothing up here except for a mountain lake, but when I was a kid this whole thing blew my mind. Once I tried this out, I just had to see what other weird things I could do with vehicles, which is how I learned how you could land on the OASIS and even save your game aboard the AIRSHIP by using a TENT. Hooray for fun useless information!

Brickroad
04-30-2008, 08:17 AM
http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-231.png
Back in Onrac I meet up with this lady who has invented a submarine. She won't let you take it down to the Sea Shrine unless you can breathe underwater, but I took care of that OXYALE subquest before even setting foot in town. I'm not actually ready to fight the Water FIEND yet, but the Sea Shrine is full of great treasure that I simply can't pass up.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-232.png
First up is the Mage Staff, which casts FIR2 when used in battle. I'm going to pass this off to SKUB, giving him his choice of FIR2 or LIT2 as far as free magic goes.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-234.png
Only FIGHTERs and KNIGHTs can equip the Light Axe, but anyone can swing it for a free HARM effect. This goes in ADAM's inventory, so now everyone has an option against undead; almost no undead party in the game can stand up to a full assault of Light Axe/FIR2/FIR2/HRM2. Actually in another level ADAM will be able to use his first charge of L3 magic, but that's just one shot and the Light Axe lasts forever.

There's another Light Axe even deeper in the Sea Shrine (not subjected to the duplicate chest rule we learned in the Marsh Cave for some reason), but I'm going to turn around and head upstairs now where all the really good treasure is!

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-236.png
The top floor of the Sea Shrine has no monsters, a simply ridonkulous amount of treasure, and best of all, mermaids! I'm biased because I'm just a sucker for mermaids, but if I weren't already on a quest to kill some FIENDs I would totally be on one now after being asked politely by bright young women, sick of swimmin', ready to staaaaand.

Also note: mermaids are topless, pixel-boobs all hangin' out everywhere. Square was pushing the envelope back before Rockstar was even a gleam in some depraved vehicular manslaughter fetishist's eye.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-238.png
The floor is laid out with a series of rooms in a 4x4 grid, but to get to the northeast room you have to go to the northwest and walk along this bizarre looping pathway. It's not clear who, exactly, built the Sea Shrine, but its architect managed to twist it through the fifth dimension. You have got to respect that kind of craftsmanship.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-241.png
Ta daa! This is the goal of this excursion into the Sea Shrine. Unlike the Ice Cave, which is designed to force the player to fight through half of the dungeon twice and is a thousand miles from anywhere, the Sea Shrine seems to have been designed to be as player-friendly as possible. Take the up-stairs and you arrive at fabulous treasure, take the down-stairs and you're pointing towards the boss. Even better, town is literally just outside in case you have to make a quick retreat or the unthinkable happens and you have to reload.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-242.png
The first thing you'll notice is that INN prices skyrocket in some of these late-game towns. It's 300 here in Onrac and a whopping 500 over in Gaia. The second thing you'll notice is that even this monumentally egregious price-gouging won't make a dent in my wallet, which is actually big enough by now I can climb inside it and take a nap.

So what's a young band of newly-promoted LIGHT WARRIORs to do with one-hundred twenty-three thousand GOLD? That's right -- shopping spree!

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-248.png
I somehow missed getting a screenshot, but everyone attained L15 back in the Sea Shrine which means now my RedWizs can cast L5 magic. This means a trip back to Melmond, which is convenient because good ol' Dr. Unne here is the only cat in the world who (with the help of my SLAB) can teach me the long-lost language of Lefeinish. Without this knowledge nobody in the town of Lefein would be able to communicate with me.

By the way, in DoS the SLAB is called the Rosetta Stone, which is one of the few name changes I actually approve of.

Everyone gets a full stock of L5 magic: FIR3, LIFE and BANE for my RedWizs, HEL2 and HRM3 for SKUB. In the end I decided to skip CUR3; with the Heal Staff + rank swapping strategy and all these shots of CURE I haven't actually used a HEAL potion since very late in the Ice Cave. HEL2 is always a good choice because, due to another of FF1's fortuitous programming errors, the spell acts like HEL3 when used in battle, finally giving SKUB a worthwhile in-combat emergency healing option. HRM3 isn't strictly necessary now that I've got three FIR2 users in the group and a Light Axe besides, but there are some powerful undead in the next few dungeons and it won't hurt to be able to take them out quickly. (FIR3 serves this same purpose.)

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-244.png
I'm also going to finally buy some L2 magic: ALIT for all my white magic casters. This protects me from LIT magic, which is good news for the three members of my group who are un-Ribboned.

"But Brick, you keep bitching about MAGEs and LIT3! Shouldn't you have gotten this before?" Well sure, except ALIT won't protect you against RUB or SORCERERs or COCTRICEs or any of the othe crazy shit in that dungeon. Believe it or not, even if he had the opportunity SKUB's better option in those fights would have been to RUN rather than cast ALIT.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-246.png
Finally, I head back to Gaia to pick up my ProRings. I already have a screenshot of that, so instead here's one of the Gaia weapon shop. For sale, a dagger that is a totally decent weapon for Bl.Wizs. It's roughly comparable to the Flame Sword in terms of DAMAGE and HIT. Since Bl.Wizs can cast FAST (which doubles their HIT) and SABR (which increases their DAMAGE and is stackable) this gives them the capability to deal some real damage even without magic.

Wouldn't it have been nice to have a Wh.Wiz equivalent of this weapon? Sorry SKUB!

Next: Lu....pa....?

MCBanjoMike
04-30-2008, 08:53 AM
To think, when I was a kid I believed them. I thought HEL3 was better than HEL2! I thought fire swords would inflict extra damage upon ice creatures! I feel like such a damn fool.

Octopus Prime
04-30-2008, 09:20 AM
I hear you Mr.Banjo. I used the Fire Sword in the Ice Cave, I used Hel3 instead of 2 and I grinded (ground?) for HOURS in the Hall of Giants. I even gave the Masamune to my Wh.WIZ instead of to someone who would actually be hitting stuff.

Damn you, Nintendo Players Guide: Final Fantasy. You betrayed me! I will be avenged.

Sven
04-30-2008, 09:31 AM
That list is missing some parties, like FIGHTER/(dead)/(dead)/(dead) (ie: a FIGHTER solo). I would definitely rank some of the easier solos as better overall than some of the hardest full teams.

Yeah, I'd much rather deal with a solo fighter than, say, four white mages.

I should think I could have found one in, say, the Coneria Castle cellar rather than having to fight through a labyrinth of magical pillars.

To their credit, there's no generic rat enemy in this game. Maybe Rats were wiped out millions of years ago, and revered by all races in the northern lands as a legendary creature?

Okay, maybe not.

Have you ever actually tried lighting that many candles? It takes dedication.

Um, DRAGON? Something tells me they do things the easy way when it comes to fire.

That's the dark secret of RedWizs; they kinda suck. Jacks of all trades, masters of none, the RedMAGE is awesome early in the game when he can swing a sword well and cast both kinds of magic, but towards endgame their equipment selection and spell charges are both lagging behind.


The equipment selection's the big thing, as there's no Red Wizard-specific vest like there is for the other Wizards.

I don't have any Bl.BELTs either, but their promotion into MASTERs is inconsequential since they gain absolutely nothing.


It basically becomes the point where you just sort of stick them in the background and only pay attention to them if you're nearing a boss. They actually probably get *too* overpowered, being able to one-shot virtually any enemy, but unlike a Knight they bring nothing else to the table with this power and can't absorb damage as well.

Back in Onrac I meet up with this lady who has invented a submarine. She won't let you take it down to the Sea Shrine unless you can breathe underwater, but I took care of that OXYALE subquest before even setting foot in town.

I think the biggest issue as a kid was that, thanks to Nintendo Power, you thought that you had to follow the usual "talk to everyone" advice and therefore didn't realise that just about everything in the game happens no matter who you talk to first (the notable exception being, IIRC, that the sages won't give you the Canoe if you don't beat LICH first). So lots of time was wasted going to Onrac, "getting the quest", and then actually going about paying for the bottle.

First up is the Mage Staff, which casts FIR2 when used in battle. I'm going to pass this off to SKUB, giving him his choice of FIR2 or LIT2 as far as free magic goes.


If you don't feel like getting back to the EYE, this basically turns the MUMMYs into an unlimited (but far safer) farming spot. Timing isn't as good, however, as the EYE gives a lot more EXP / round.

It's not clear who, exactly, built the Sea Shrine, but its architect managed to twist it through the fifth dimension. You have got to respect that kind of craftsmanship.


Given that you're about to meet a very Lovecraftian boss, this is appropos.

By the way, in DoS the SLAB is called the Rosetta Stone, which is one of the few name changes I actually approve of.


Nah - it's too tied into the real world. It's like calling the Cube a "Nuclear Football"

"But Brick, you keep bitching about MAGEs and LIT3! Shouldn't you have gotten this before?" Well sure, except ALIT won't protect you against RUB or SORCERERs or COCTRICEs or any of the othe crazy shit in that dungeon. Believe it or not, even if he had the opportunity SKUB's better option in those fights would have been to RUN rather than cast ALIT.


Also, remember that these were the days before the games punished you for running by making you drop gold if you did so, and therefore discretion is truly the better part of valor in FF1.


Wouldn't it have been nice to have a Wh.Wiz equivalent of this weapon? Sorry SKUB! Next: Lu....pa....?

The Masmune practically has "GIVE THIS TO A WHITE WIZARD" stencilled on it. Sure, it's a sucker's game if you don't have a Knight in your party, but nevertheless I think that was the whole point.

Zef
04-30-2008, 09:32 AM
Seems to be some confusion as to how ProRings work. They only protect you against unclassed death attacks; RUB, XXXX, BlueZOID's added effect, that sort of thing. For elemental death attacks (like BANE, QAKE and CRACK) you need to have a Ribbon. Either way, like Sven said, attacks still have a shot at getting through, something like 1/256. There is no such thing as perfect immunity in FF1, as BERT the Bl.BELT found out the hard way when he was farming EYEs.

1/256 chances of success against a ProRing? Hmm.

OK, we have a party of nine BlueZOIDs, versus four Light Warriors equipped with ProRings. So, a single Warrior would have 9/256 chances of getting his brains sucked out even with the ProRing. That is, one in every 28.4 turns would leave him brainless.

...still, the probability of all FOUR Light Warriors being de-brained in the same battle is considerably smaller. But only if the hit distribution were somewhat equal, which it isn't.

If all nine BlueZOIDs take shots at each Warrior in succession --since you said the leader takes 75% of the hits, that's a fair possibility-- then the 1 in 28.4 chance happens every round for whoever is at the top of the formation. Then the squids move on to #2, then #3, and then they all concentrate on #4. This makes sense, as my Knight was the first to go, then the Ninja, then they skipped the WhWiz and went for the succulent BlWiz gray matter. This took less than twenty turns. The redhead barely had a chance... and yet, somehow, she held on for thrice as many turns.

However! The BlueZOIDs can also STUN, which the ProRing doesn't Pro against, and which seems to have a MUCH higher success rate than the one-hit-kill. Does STUN status increase the 1/256 chance? The BlueZOID party STUNned the Knight and Ninja on its very first turn, cutting down my main means of offense. I forget why I didn't NUKE the whole bunch, but most likely they STUNned the BlWiz before he could fire it off (since my opening move with Black Magic is to cast FAST.) Even with the Masmune, the WhWiz didn't have the strength to one-shot BlueZOIDS. It was easy pickings for them once she was STUNned too.

Now, even as everyone else dropped around her, my WhWiz was coming in and out of STUN status, allowing her a greater chance of surviving. This also allowed her to destroy at least two BlueZOIDs. Still, I don't really remember whether she was de-brained or just slowly bludgeoned to death. The time she spent STUNned was enough to offset any damage she was inflicting with the Masmune.

Red Hedgehog
04-30-2008, 10:05 AM
Every time I read this thread, I get the music from the Temple of Fiends stuck in my head. Thanks :P

Octopus Prime
04-30-2008, 10:54 AM
Tl, Dr

Even then, with a 0.004% chance of a OHKO per Bl.ZOID with the ProRING equiped, you probably shouldn't bother trying to run from them. And since you're actively trying to kill them back, and it's possible that all the Bl.ZOIDs aren't focusing on the one target, the odds of a total party kill, even from a team of 9 Bl.Zoids is, while not impossible, so incredibly unlikely that you would be more likely to win the lottery and be struck by lightning at the same time. On your birthday.

Wow, that's one HECK of a run-on sentence.

Zithuan
04-30-2008, 11:40 AM
1/256 chances of success against a ProRing? Hmm.

OK, we have a party of nine BlueZOIDs, versus four Light Warriors equipped with ProRings. So, a single Warrior would have 9/256 chances of getting his brains sucked out even with the ProRing. That is, one in every 28.4 turns would leave him brainless.

p(BlueZOID 1HK) = 1/256 = 0.390625%
The chance of all 9 hits not killing a ProRing'd character is (1-p)^9
Thus the chance of dying when attacked by all 9 BlueZOIDs is 3.46%
With the attack distribution vs party member placement:
p(Char1 Death) = 1.73%
p(Char2 Death) = 0.86%
p(Char3 Death) = 0.43%
p(Char4 Death) = 0.43%

After 10 rounds, the odds of them having landed at least one death blow is up to 29.70%, and by round 20, the probability is up to 50.56%.

Realistically however, the battle should be over one way or another by round 3 or 4, tops.

Ample Vigour
04-30-2008, 12:26 PM
math MATH MATH math math Math

I'm dying inside. Hope you're happy, TT.

Zef
04-30-2008, 12:45 PM
http://www.the-weaving.com/images/temp/Calculator%20(M)%20-%20Status.GIF

Sanagi
04-30-2008, 02:25 PM
I'm actually having fun playing the game again. I'm past Astos.

I think the biggest issue as a kid was that, thanks to Nintendo Power, you thought that you had to follow the usual "talk to everyone" advice and therefore didn't realise that just about everything in the game happens no matter who you talk to first (the notable exception being, IIRC, that the sages won't give you the Canoe if you don't beat LICH first). So lots of time was wasted going to Onrac, "getting the quest", and then actually going about paying for the bottle.
I really wish more RPGs would let you get on with the stupid quest without tracking down random faceless NPCs.

Also, remember that these were the days before the games punished you for running by making you drop gold if you did so, and therefore discretion is truly the better part of valor in FF1.
The Thief's specialization in cowardice doesn't get the respect it deserves.

SpoonyGundam
04-30-2008, 02:32 PM
It always amazed me that Dr. Unne could master Lefeinish and teach you how to speak it fluently within 10 seconds of getting the SLAB.

Octopus Prime
04-30-2008, 02:33 PM
It always amazed me that Dr. Unne could master Lefeinish and teach you how to speak it fluently within 10 seconds of getting the SLAB.

He's the great Dr. Unne. He can do anything.

DeeMer
04-30-2008, 03:02 PM
Seems to be some confusion as to how ProRings work. They only protect ... BlueZOID's added effect, that sort of thing.

While logical, this is untrue, thanks to the brutal mess that is FF1's code.

If an enemy's attack carries a status effect, there's no immunity, unless the attack also carries an element to it (Fire, for instance, but there are also status elements), and you resist that element (Ice Armor) you will be "immune" (1/200) to the effect.
BUT one of the game's many programming errors loads the enemy's weakness data instead of its attack element. So, if one wanted to be immune to the BlZOID's deathstrikes, one would have to wear armor that resisted the same elements as the monster's weakness. Since it has no weaknesses, there's no avoiding it. Your math is sadly done in vain.

What this does mean, though, is that you can avoid the undead's stun attacks if you're wearing Fire-resistant equipment.

Brickroad
04-30-2008, 06:13 PM
INTERMISSION!

Okay, this whole SORCERER vs. ProRing thing has me a little frazzled. Can it be possible that my knowledge of FF1 is... imperfect? Was Zef's experience just a freak occurence, an improbable happenstance off at the far end of the bell curve? Is Zithuan onto something with his unfeeling, almost robotic mathematical analysis? Is DeeMeer right about the FF1 programmers being inept, and possibly intoxicated? After all, these are the guys who gave us weapons that don't work, spells with no function and an exploitable overworld encounter area exactly two tiles out of range.

In the name of SCIENCE I did the unthinkable: I went back into the Ice Cave.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-297.png
SORCERERs don't appear on the first floor, and as you can see some of their curious little cousins came out to see what all the commotion was about. Remember, a team of these fellas did me in on my last pass through the Ice Cave; look at the difference some new gear makes.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-303.png
Here we are, the perfect test subject. For the first time in my playthrough I used a savestate here; due to the way FF1's encounter list works, this means that every time I open state and take a step I will encounter this exact same fight. After I've collected my data I'll open state one last time and EXIT the cave, so I won't actually have made any progress in my real game by using emulator tricks.

Note that FF1 doesn't have a Defend command or anything similar; the only way to pass a turn is to use an Item with no effect.

I threw out rounds in which the SORCERER used TRANCE and only counted the ones he attacked me. I played four battles each with ProRings on and off, and kept track of which rounds he landed a hit and whether that hit did damage or dealt instant death. Xs below indicate that, on that round, the SORCERER killed someone with his attack. An O indicates that, on that round, the SORCERER hit me but dealt damage instead of death. There were no ocassions in which the SORCERER atacked but missed.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-301.png
Trial One: ProRings
Fight 1: XOOXXOOOX (nine rounds)
Fight 2: OXXXX (five rounds)
Fight 3: OOXXXOOX (eight rounds)
Fight 4: XXXOX (five rounds)
Results: average life span of 6.75 rounds

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-304.png
Trial Two: NoRings
Fight 1: XXXOOOOOOX (ten rounds)
Fight 2: XXXOOX (six rounds)
Fight 3: XOXOXX (six rounds)
Fight 4: XXOOXX (six rounds)
Results: average life span of 7 rounds

The results are surprising! I actually lasted longer on average without ProRings than with! You guys were right, the ProRings do NOTHING to stop the SORCERERs from kicking ass. I guess this means that the Ribbon also does nothing to keep ASPs from Poisoning you, or COCTRICEs from killing you, etc.

Note that even though I was wrong wrong wrongity wrong-wrong about the whole ProRing thing, it doesn't actually change my advice on how to deal with these monsters: RUN like hell!

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-305.png
With that out of the way, I put my ProRings back on and have SKUB EXIT us out of the Ice Cave. (I'm not counting this as a UST because without SKUB along I would have simply saved my game before going into the cave and then RESET after I was done. Actually, I don't know why I didn't just do that in the first place.)

Even after all these years I'm still learning new things about FF1! And you guys wonder why I still play it? =)

We now return you to your regularly scheduled adventure (next installment coming later tonight!).

/intermission

Zef
04-30-2008, 06:39 PM
The results are surprising! I actually lasted longer on average without ProRings than with! You guys were right, the ProRings do NOTHING to stop the SORCERERs from kicking ass.

Vindication! After 17.5 years, the "Not true!" chicken-doodle on my NP guide has been validated! I'm going to invent a time machine just to give my 11 year-old self a really big hug.

I'm so happy... 'scuse me for a moment, I have something in my eyes. :o Thank you all for making this come true. *sniff*

dwolfe
04-30-2008, 09:36 PM
Wait....so both Ribbons and ProRings are useless in the original NES version of Final Fantasy? I followed the maths, but not the situations as much.

I assume this is fixed in the DoS versions?

Brickroad
04-30-2008, 10:22 PM
Wait....so both Ribbons and ProRings are useless in the original NES version of Final Fantasy? I followed the maths, but not the situations as much.

No, the definitely work against spells and special attacks, just not against the added effect of regular attacks.

On with the adventure!


http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-250.png
The walk to Lefein is a long one; it's located on a densely forested continent populated by tough monsters (the same monsters, in fact, that spill over onto the PNEOP). Murdering a TYRO puts ADAM, EDIT and SKUB up on L16; high enough for SKUB to start casting L6 magic. The only super-useful L6 spell is EXIT, which he already has. Of course, all the dungeons left in the game either end with warp points out or the final boss, so its use is going to be situational at best. Don't worry about BOSS, she catches up to L16 on the next fight.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-251.png
UST #4! Dressed in white robes, SKUB blends right in with the Lefeinish, allowing me to slip into their compound virtually undetected. As you can see, this strange and reclusivive foreign people are every bit as prudish as your typical fat lazy Conerian. Go figure.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-252.png
This helpful Lefeinian gives me the CHIME I need to get into the Mirage Tower, the next dungeon I'm looking to loot. He's only so helpful though because I speak the language; if I would have come here before delivering the SLAB to Dr. Unne, the people here would only speak to me using the almost critically unhelpful phrase "Lu....pa....?"

Believe it or not, we're done here already. There are no weapons or armor here, not even an INN, but...

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-255.png
...if you walk through the break in the stone wall at the northeast corner of town, you can meander on over to the hidden magic shop. There's one shop each for black and white magic, and they sell the most powerful spell sin each of the two schools: LIF2 for white magic and NUKE for black. Only Bl.Wizs can cast NUKE, so I won't have a use for it this game. Believe it or not, I won't have a use for LIF2 either; I have enough healing that just regular LIFE is sufficient, and even if I manage to top L25 (when SKUB gets his first L8 charge) this game, I'd rather him cast something useful like FADE or WALL, both for sale over in Gaia.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-256.png
CHIME in hand, I can now enter this tower in the middle of the desert. Like most locations at this stage of the game I have to land my AIRSHIP some ways away and hike overland to get here.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-262.png
Some of the best weapons in the game can be found here. Barring the Masmune, this here Sun Sword is the best weapon a RedWiz can use in the game. Found across the way is the Thor Hammer, the Wh.Wiz's best non-Masmune weapon. It casts LIT2 in combat, making the Zeus Gauntlet obsolete. I've also picked up the Vorpal Sword in a chest here, a weapon remarkable for being extremely unremarkable compared to the other weapons in its vicinity.

Also here in the Mirage Tower is the Heal Helmet, which I've passed off to BOSS. Using it has the same effect as the Heal Staff, so now I can have two free HEALs per round if I were so inclined.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-266.png
At the end of the Mirage Tower is the teleporter to the FLOATING CASTLE, operable only to those who hold the CUBE. The teleporter is guarded by the Blue D, a rather tough sub-boss that weilds powerful LIT magic. This team has an advantage though: it can open with three people casting ALIT, dramatically increasing the chances of me getting my defense off before I take any damage. That's exactly what happens here and, even though I have to sit through two ineffective ALIT castings this round, I win the fight in the next while Blue D's THUNDER attack bounces harmlessly off me.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-282.png
The FLOATING CASTLE is a weird, alien place. Instead of staircases you move between floors using Triangular Subatomic Locomotion Pads. Instead of treasure boxes the phat loot is found in Climate-controlled Isometric Containment Cubes. If only the Air FIEND were a detached computerized voice telling me lies about cake I think the picture would be complete.

The Bane Sword isn't a great weapon, but it does cast BANE when used in battle. This goes in ADAM's inventory for now.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-283.png
I feel bad about not getting the EYE screenshot from the Ice Cave, but not bad enough to walk back through the fuggin' place looking for another one. They pop up as random encounters in here, though, so I hope you can accept this late screenshot as an apology. (In case you're wondering, no, the EYE is not related to Super Metroid's Phantoon. I heard they were in the same frat in college, though.)

Since everyone's wearing ProRings, I'm pretty safe from its death attacks, and since it has such low HP it's pretty much just walking-around EXP, free for the taking.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-287.png
I'm grabbing this for the sake of completion, since it's not actually going to do me any good. If you'll recall, I can take this back to the smithy in the Dwarf Cave to have him forge me Xcalber, the KNIGHT's best non-Masmune weapon.

Brickroad
04-30-2008, 10:24 PM
http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-285.png
A GrNAGA helps my first three guys up to L17, and BOSS follows close behind on an EYE soon thereafter.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-289.png
There is a lot of great armor in the FLOATING CASTLE. The ProCape here is a shield which anyone in my team can equip, but I'm putting it on ADAM to finish up his set and cement his place as my team leader. The Dragon Armor and Aegis Shield are useless to me because I don't have a KNIGHT, but I'll sell them off when I get back to town. You'll also notice I've picked up my second Ribbon, as well as the White and Black Shirts. The White Shirt casts INV2 (the equivalent of half-a-RUSE to everyone in the party) and is SKUB's best armor. The Black Shirt casts ICE2, giving SKUB access to all three second-tier attack spells. That actually makes him more versatile than either of my RedWizs, who haven't used a single ICE spell the entire adventure.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-288.png
This is an ominous message about the sad state of the world, but it's one of FF1's cooler plot points. If you were to take the world map (included with every copy of the game) and mark the four FIENDS' hideouts, you'd have a mark roughly in the four corners of the world. If you then drew lines connection Mirage Tower with the Earth Cave, and Onrac with Gurgu Volcano, you'd have a large X. At the center of the X is the Temple of the Fiends. Gotta admit, even nowadays that's kind of a neat touch, isn't it? Back in 1990 when the most world-shattering thing we'd seen in video games was when Samus took off her helmet it was positively astounding... and that's not even the best little twist the game has to offer.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-290.png
The last of the kickass treasures in the FLOATING CASTLE is the Katana, ADAM's best non-Masmune weapon. This happens to be the third-best weapon in the game (just behind Masmune and Xcalber), and since ADAM can FAST himself he becomes a more-or-less self-contained death machine. If only it were realistic to get a solo NINJA to this point you'd be on easy street from here on out.

I do know of one person who managed to get a THIEF past ASTOS and promoted to a NINJA, but soon after finishing the game he fell into a catatonic state. After a few days of languishing in depression he disappeared without a trace, leaving nothing but an oily black stain on the wall like in a Japanese horror film. Just at that moment his discarded cell phone rang, but no voice was heard, only a haunting chiptune rendition of the FF1 end credits music. The person who answered the phone died seven days later.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-291.png
This floor of the FLOATING CASTLE stretches endlessly in all four directions, leaving you to get lost for hours unless you know the trick. The teleporter to the final floor is two blocks horizontal, two blocks vertical, in any direction you care to go. I learned it as "two up, two left" but whatever works for you is gravy.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-292.png
Here's the last floor, a long bridge leading from the teleporter to the FIEND's room. If I'm going to find a WarMECH, this is where it'd be. I'm really hoping I don't find one, but just in case I'm going to keep myself in top condition for the duration of my time here.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-293.png
SON OF A BITCH!!

Not only did I run into the goddamn WarMECH, but it got the drop on me. What you see here are the results of a single use of his NUCLEAR attack; I was at full HP before. (ADAM and EDIT are slightly more alive than the others because they're wearing Ribbons.) You can RUN from WarMECHs, but it's dicey at best. If it gets off even one more NUCLEAR I am toast, and I'll have to reload at the bottom of Mirage Tower.

I don't have a screenshot of my daring escape, but suffice it to say BOSS was up to the task of not getting vaporized. I live to fight another day, but burn through all of my CURE and CUR2 charges plus about 40 HEAL potions to bring myself back up to a healthy condition.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-294.png
Here's the FIEND of Air, TIAMAT. TIAMAT has 1000 HP and a lot of powerful magic attacks, but...

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-354.png
...as you can see I have the advantage. Unlike most bosses TIAMAT isn't immune to the deadly poison effects of BANE! Each RedWiz has two blasts of BANE and ADAM can cast it using his sword. SKUB opens with ALIT (to counter TIAMAT's THUNDER attack), EDIT and ADAM both miss, and then BOSS ends the fight without having done a single point of damage to the boss.

Of course, BANE isn't guaranteed to work. I get two rounds with three shots each before my RedWizs are tapped. ADAM can use the Bane Sword for a free try every round, though. Most of TIAMAT's attacks will decimate poor BOSS and SKUB (as they're un-Ribboned), but ADAM could have probably gone ten rounds or more with a bit of luck. Aside from magic TIAMAT's damage output is pretty mild, so starting in the second round I'd have SKUB start waving around his shirt to get everyone RUSEd.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-295.png
After a long journey up the tower and into the stratosphere, the ORB of Air shines again!

Next: My legs are beautiful! It's so nice to have legs.

Merus
04-30-2008, 10:30 PM
My takeaway from this thread: Final Fantasy 1 is filled with shitty bugs?

Edit: Hey, it's Brickroad! And he wussed out on the WarMECH.

If you were to take the world map (included with every copy of the game) and mark the four FIENDS' hideouts, you'd have a mark roughly in the four corners of the world.

DoS did this the coolest: it showed you the world map, marked the dungeons on the map, and told you that the energy lined up in the middle. You do the legwork yourself, and realise, hey, wow, it's the Dark Temple from the start of the game! Man, that place sucked!

Stiv
04-30-2008, 10:39 PM
I think it's kind of interesting that you chose to do the Air Castle before the Volcano or the (lower half of) the Water Shrine. Is the equipment there really all that necessary to power through the shrine?

You mentioned the Volcano wasn't worth it, so I can understand that part especially since it's pretty much a pit of death for the level you were at when you would have gone there in a normal person game.

nunix
04-30-2008, 10:44 PM
I just realised Brick'd completely skipped Volcano and Water Temple so far. I never realised you could do them in pretty much whatever order you wanted after Earth Cave. (or is even that much optional?)

I too used my Volume 17 as gameplay bible; I feel cheated this was never even hinted at. And also stupid for never having tried it.

Edit: and got beat out on this observation by Stiv. Cannot win.

Zef
04-30-2008, 10:55 PM
I do know of one person who managed to get a THIEF past ASTOS and promoted to a NINJA, but soon after finishing the game he fell into a catatonic state. After a few days of languishing in depression he disappeared without a trace, leaving nothing but an oily black stain on the wall like in a Japanese horror film. Just at that moment his discarded cell phone rang, but no voice was heard, only a haunting chiptune rendition of the FF1 end credits music.

<3

I hope it was the Japanese original you watched, and not the horrid, horrid remake.

Ample Vigour
04-30-2008, 11:13 PM
Brickroad's methods are insane, but I am compelled to watch.

Twice now I have come within a click of emulating FF1, but fear of treading his thorny path has stayed my hand.

For now.

Alixsar
04-30-2008, 11:57 PM
Brickroad's methods are insane, but I am compelled to watch.

I was going to start playing FFI again because of this thread, but Brick has blown my mind. I don't know if I can ever go back after his sequence-breaking and encyclopedic knowledge of this game.

Octopus Prime
05-01-2008, 04:48 AM
Edit: Hey, it's Brickroad! And he wussed out on the WarMECH.


That's nothing to be ashamed of.

Sven
05-01-2008, 07:38 AM
That's nothing to be ashamed of.

Especially with Brick's party - he'd be stuck in a nasty RUSE battle to even come close to that one, and that's without also having the bad luck of WARMECH getting the first round for free like he was stuck with.

Yes, normally you'd think that having a Ninja at the front of your party would be a defence against that type of thing, but FF1 has no time for your logic.

I don't know if I can ever go back after his sequence-breaking and encyclopedic knowledge of this game.

The only real "break" is his skipping of the volcano (aside from the fact that you're told to go there, the volcano's surrounded by grassland, which means the designers assumed you wouldn't get the airship first).

You can make the game a LOT easier by investing a small amount of time in grinding, at which point the rather terrifying sequence-break of going to the Ice Cave with a low level party is a bit more manageable. Last night I started up a game on Nesticle with the frame rate pumped up to 200 or so and more or less caught up with his playthrough, getting past the castle of ordeals. And that was *with* taking a couple Houses along to the Northwest castle to farm Mummys.

I never realised you could do them in pretty much whatever order you wanted after Earth Cave. (or is even that much optional?)

I checked last night - the sage who gives you the canoe (which is mandatory to sequence-break) has a different dialogue if you see him before beating LICH.

"Four hundred years ago, Wind.... Two hundred years ago, Water.... And then, Earth and Fire.... The four powers that make up this world...." (That's from a translation of the original, not the NES game, but the quote was something along those lines)

Weirdly, there's another guy who says something different for no apparent reason:

"You must turn your power towards a righteous direction!"

He's the one who talks about the Fire Fiend awakening, which is one of the hints to the "sequence."

And, personally, raiding the Mirage Tower is basically the first thing I do with the Airship after getting the class change. There's no excuse to leave that treasure room undisturbed for so long, even if you then turn around and EXIT out of there.

I do know of one person who managed to get a THIEF past ASTOS and promoted to a NINJA, but soon after finishing the game he fell into a catatonic state.

To anyone attempting this: don't, unless you feel devious enough to take advantage of an exploit that gives you access to unlimited strength upgrades. Even then... ASTOS would still be a bitch to finish off.

Dressed in white robes, SKUB blends right in with the Lefeinish, allowing me to slip into their compound virtually undetected.

I'm amazed you managed to skip the obvious White Mage Overworld Sprite = KKK Member joke.

Funny quote from a FAQ with all the mockery we've been doing of the classes' general uselessness:

Also, make sure to ALWAYS bring a White Mage, no matter what party you use.

Replace "ALWAYS" with "NEVER" and you'll be much closer to the truth. FF1 is all about killing the enemies quickly or running away before they can do damage - there's no wars of attrition here unless you're trying something weird with your party.

DeeMer
05-01-2008, 02:38 PM
If you liked that last quirky bug, here are a few more:

Each weapon has an individual Critical hit value. For most weapons, it's quite low, from 1-5, with an occasional 10. The Vorpal Blade and Katana have Critical rates of 30. Thing is... the game never loads this value and uses the weapon's index number instead. So as you progress through the game, your chances of landing criticals steadily rises.

When trying to run, you succeed if the "Can't Run" flag for the battle is clear and the Running Character's Luck is greater than a random number between 0 and (Level+15). But once again, a wrong variable is loaded instead of Level, and this one's particularly strange. It depends on the runner's position:
slot #1: slot #3's status
slot #2: slot #4's status
slot #3: either 0-8 or 128-131, depending on who is scheduled to attack third (Turn Order)
slot #4: IIRC, it depends on the one's digit of the bottom warrior's HP, 128-137.

I'm not sure which value each status has, but I think "Healthy" is worth 0, so if the top character's luck is over 15 and character #3 is healthy, you should be able to run 100%, theoretically.

This game was programmed by only a single person, Nasir Gebelli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasir_Gebelli), possibly under a severe time constraint.

If you'd like to know more, this GameFAQs thread (http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=522595&topic=41701255) has a lot of data about the game's inner workings.

Ample Vigour
05-01-2008, 04:04 PM
This game was programmed by only a single person

Who regularly disappears to "travel the world" and resurfaces only to hobnob with developer glitterati.

It's pretty clear we're dealing with Iron Man.

That Gamefaqs thread makes up for every other gamefaqs thread in existence. It's also pushed me over the edge: I just finished my last final and I know how I'm going to spend the rest of my week.

djSyndrome
05-01-2008, 04:09 PM
This game was programmed by only a single person, Nasir Gebelli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasir_Gebelli), possibly under a severe time constraint.

Nasir Gebelli lives three miles away (http://www.whitepages.com/log_feature/search_suggestion/search/FindPerson?name=Gebelli&city=Sacramento&state_id=CA&metro_area=1&search_suggestion=1&query_type=56&parent_search_id=70011420522879669728&form_mode=opt_b) from me. I've probably stood in line behind him at the grocery store.

gamin
05-01-2008, 05:07 PM
This game was programmed by only a single person, Nasir Gebelli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasir_Gebelli), possibly under a severe time constraint.

Interesting stuff. I was always curious who or what "NASIR" was from the opening credits of Final Fantasy games and Secret of Mana.

Brickroad
05-01-2008, 05:20 PM
I think it's kind of interesting that you chose to do the Air Castle before the Volcano or the (lower half of) the Water Shrine. Is the equipment there really all that necessary to power through the shrine?

Necessary? No. Desireable? Absolutely. Given the option to upgrade your gear or upgrade your level in FF1, always go for the gear.

<3

I hope it was the Japanese original you watched, and not the horrid, horrid remake.

If you're talking about Pulse, the horrid, horrid Japanese original soured any chances of me ever watching the remake, although I can't possibly see how it could be worse.

Funny quote from a FAQ with all the mockery we've been doing of the classes' general uselessness:

It's not that Wh.MAGEs/Wh.Wizs are useless, really, it's just that they're so situational. To really see the strengths of the class you have to be playing a game with a party full of them.

This game was programmed by only a single person, Nasir Gebelli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasir_Gebelli), possibly under a severe time constraint.

The game definitely has a "single mind" feel to it that is missing from lots of modern games.

Onward to adventure!


http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-308.png
Now that I'm all geared up, I'm ready to go beat the game. Just two niggling loose threads I have to tie up real quick...

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This cute tiny dungeon floor is back in the Sea Shrine. This time I'm heading downstairs in search of the FIEND of Water. This particular FIEND is certainlyt he hardest of the four; I've seen it hit well-armored KNIGHTs for over 200 damage. With all the gear I took out of the Mirage Tower and FLOATING CASTLE, though, I'm more than ready to face it.

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The most dangerous monsters in the Sea Shrine are GHOSTs, who are sort of like late-game equivalents of ZOIDBERGs. They hit for tons of damage (note ADAM's dirt nap here), you can't run from them, and they always appear in mid-sized groups. GHOSTs are the reason to pick up FIR3 and HRM3 back in Melmond. Fortunately they only appear on a couple floors in the Sea Shrine and don't pose any threat outside their powerful-but-normal attack.

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They're worth quite a bit of EXP though! ADAM falls about 1600 EXP behind the rest of the gang, but he'll still manage to make L18 before I arrive at the boss's chamber.

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There are two good treasures still left to get in the Sea Shrine, the first of which is the Power Gauntlet. This nifty item casts SABR when you use it. SABR is L7 black magic that raises your attack power. Like RUSE, it only affects the caster, limiting its usefulness (why would you want to increase your Bl.Wiz's attack power, right?), but the Power Gauntlet can be used by anyone. What's better, SABR is a stackable effect, both with itself and with FAST. If you could survive it, you could SABR up a dozen times, FAST yourself, and one-shot practically any monster in the game.

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Second is the third Ribbon. I'll give this one to BOSS, leaving SKUB as my only un-Ribboned warrior.

If SKUB levels up enough to get L8 magic, I can teach him WALL, which has about the same effect as a Ribbon. Unfortunately SKUB isn't going to get anywhere near that level without some serious grinding. More likely he'll be given up for dead in some of the later boss fights against foes with super-powerful magic.

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I somehow managed to neglect getting a screenshot of KRAKEN, which must mean I'm slipping up as I reach the endgame. Jesus.

Anyway, KRAKEN is theoretically weak to LIT, but LIT2 isn't powerful enough to do any real damage and LIT3 isn't on the menu until my RedWizs reach L20. Starting out I have ADAM, EDIT and BOSS all RUSE themselves (RedWizs with the spell, ADAM with the Defense Sword) and SKUB wave around his White Shirt. Stacking EVADE buffs is the best (and really only) way to survive KRAKEN's unbelievably strong attack. Once his multiple hits are neutralized all he can do to me is INK. The Dark status effect either doesn't work (which wouldn't surprise me) or its effect is so small as to be negligable. Once I'm RUSEd up and everyone important is FASTed I take KRAKEN out with a few rounds of Critical Hits.

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Three ORBs lit! I'm on a roll.

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Okay, okay, I've avoided it long enough. Time for me to (finally!) go where the game wanted me to go ages ago and brave the depths of the Volcano. As you can see, the Volcano is covered with lava, which is a double-edged sword; you can't get into encounters while walking through it, but it damages you for every step you take in it. This is part of what makes the Volcano so dangerous if you come here right after LICH; whether your keep to the lava or fight your way through the encounters, you're going to need a LOT of healing to see the end.

Why save this dungeon for last? There's really no reason not to. The few half-decent treasures here are well-guarded both by long stretches of monster-infested terrain and spiked squares, and even if I were going to use any of it it would just get upgraded quickly as you move on to the Ice Cave, Castle of Ordeals and Waterfall. The monsters in here are worth decent EXP, but the risk/reward isn't tipped in your favor like the MUMMYs over by Elfland or the ZombieDs in Ordeals. The boss has magical attacks which are trivialized by Ribbons and strong multi-hit attacks which are blocked by all the armor I'm wearing. I'm literally taking nothing out of this dungeon except for changing a gray ORB into a blue one on my status screen.

Brickroad
05-01-2008, 05:21 PM
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I think this room has more treasure chests in it than any others. It's just a damn shame there's nothing worth using. There's some armor only FIGHTERs can make use of, a few not-very-good weapons and (seriously) a PURE potion or two. I forget how many of those squares are spiked, but it's enough to make any trip in there less than worthless.

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Here's the bottom floor. If I had come here earlier, and had a FIGHTER, I would take the path straight to the west to find a room with some Flame Armor (guarded by a spiked Red D). Instead, I'm going to take the path southwest towards the boss.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-330.png
When I was a kid I was a little confused as to why KARY mentions you having murdered LICH, but KRAKEN and TIAMAT don't seem to care that you killed KARY. This was my first clue that it was possible to fight the FIENDs out of order. For a long time I used to do the Ice Cave and Ordeals before coming here, but eventually I just stopped altogether, viewing the Volcano as nothing but a tiny speed bump on my way to the final dungeon rather than a chapter of the game in its own right.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-339.png
This is one of KARY's strongest attacks. Make no mistake, this spell can devistate you without Ribbons or decent HP, so I would have had to buy AFIR to counteract it. KARY is also notable for being the only FIEND who is all but impervious to magic (LICH, KRAKEN and TIAMAT are prone to HARM/FIRE, LIT and BANE respectively), so the only real way to deal with her is FASTed hits. This party especially would have had trouble with that if I'd rolled up in the joint with nothing but the Were/Rune/Dragon Swords, which is what I had when I beat LICH, and coming here after promotion rather than before gives me three FAST-casters rather than two.

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Against all odds KARY manages to start pushing my team up onto L19. Weird.

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Behold, the four ORBs shine again! But what the heck do I do with them?

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TIME KOMPRESSION. KURSE ALL SeeDs.

Basically the gist is this: 2000 years ago some schlub popped up and met the four FIENDs, who gave him a pretty insane amount of power. This guy sent the four FIENDs into the future to wreak havoc and, eventually, send him back to the past again.

Why? It's never clearly explained. But apparently this Time-Loop is bad juju and I have to put an end to it.

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Back at the Temple of the Fiends, we have some talking bats! These guys were the Lefeinish SKY WARRIORs, who got busted down to vermin and had their AIRSHIP buried in a desert. Good for me, not so much for them.

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Using the four lit ORBs I can destroy the black ORB in GARLAND's old room and open up the Time Gate that will take me back to the Temple as it was 2000 years ago: the final dungeon in the game.

http://www.animeanonymous.com/stash/ff1/ff1-345.png
Here it is!

Note that there's no Time Gate back to the present. Unless you've got WARP or EXIT handy, you've just stepped through the point of no return.

The Temple is incredibly long, full of very difficult monsters and the mother of all boss gauntlets. It's also the location of what is probably the single greatest treasure in all of FF1.

Next: Everything went mad in a day.

Sanagi
05-01-2008, 05:49 PM
I always liked the detail that the bats from the beginning were actually a prior party of heroes. Although the Lefeinish language must sound pretty interesting if bats are capable of speaking it.

Octopus Prime
05-01-2008, 05:54 PM
You've gotten farther in a week then 8-Bit Theatre has in 7 years. Did the bosses in the final Dungeon have significantly higher stats in the original, or was that only in DoS?

Also, in DoS, there IS a Warp back outside the Temple of Fiends. Not that you'd need it, since that game is very easy.

Sven
05-01-2008, 06:05 PM
Did the bosses in the final Dungeon have significantly higher stats in the original, or was that only in DoS?


Nope, they were harder in the original as well - Kraken in particular, as in the first fight there's a decent chance he'll waste half his attacks on pointless spells. Not so much in the second one.

Eirikr
05-01-2008, 06:06 PM
Nasir Gebelli lives three miles away (http://www.whitepages.com/log_feature/search_suggestion/search/FindPerson?name=Gebelli&city=Sacramento&state_id=CA&metro_area=1&search_suggestion=1&query_type=56&parent_search_id=70011420522879669728&form_mode=opt_b) from me. I've probably stood in line behind him at the grocery store.

Stalking Time?