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View Full Version : June RPG, pt. 1: Suikoden


Parish
05-31-2008, 10:25 PM
Of course, everyone knows the main June selection will be Etrian Odyssey II. But what to do for the next two weeks (or is it three) before its release? The answer: A quick, bite-sized RPG, of course.

Suikoden
Konami | PlayStation | RPG | 1996

Talk about how annoying it is to find those last two or three Stars here.

SilentSnake
05-31-2008, 10:42 PM
Quick question: Isn't this supposed to be appearing sometime on PSN? Anyone know when? Cause I'd love to play this.

Red Hedgehog
05-31-2008, 10:56 PM
If only I weren't still in the middle of Persona 3. 'Cause I'd totally be up for playing this for the first time. And then setting myself up for inevitable disappointment when I want to play the sequel and have no reasonable way of obtaining it. :(

Parish
05-31-2008, 10:57 PM
I would not hold out for it.

reibeatall
05-31-2008, 10:59 PM
Awesome! I'll actually take part in this one.

shivam
05-31-2008, 11:15 PM
Oh god, one of my favorite games of all time.

Ok folks, how many of you are planning to cheat in rockland and get a shit ton of money?

Also, Prosperity Rune or Money Rune, going up the hill solo/with ted?

And tell me that the music on that bandit hill isn't fucking awesome. It's right up there with the tai ho song for me.

Ruik
05-31-2008, 11:26 PM
This is supposed to be a bite sized RPG? I remember putting a decent amount of time into it and I felt like I still had quite a ways to go.

Parish
05-31-2008, 11:34 PM
Ok folks, how many of you are planning to cheat in rockland and get a shit ton of money?
Yuck, that's a good way to suck the fun out of the game. I do love venturing out and about with Ted before kicking off the plot proper, though. The fact that I could do it at all (and be rewarded for it!) surprised me.

shivam
05-31-2008, 11:39 PM
man, playing suiko 1 makes me miss having three rune slots. once cleo gets fire, i never ever change it out aside from the high level fire rune. she's the best.

reibeatall
05-31-2008, 11:55 PM
I just realized I could Remote Play this game on my PSP while I'm in bed tonight. Score!

Zarathustra
06-01-2008, 12:41 AM
Swee-koh'-den! Am i right?

There's been a lot of TT Suikoden chat lately, hasn't there? 87 mentions of the title by name in the month of May, by my count, mostly from the "Suikoden Questions" thread. I feel like i picked a good time to dive into the series. I'm looking forward to part 3, hoping i appreciate the changes.

I assume I'm in the minority, but aside from walkthrough suggestions, I never bothered fiddling with runes or any kind of character specialization/optimization. The first two games put up no barriers in the way of speedy completion; there's no insistence (aside from death) that the player tweak much at all, or bother with the minigames for anything other than a few unique (and unnecessary) items or for fun. I was less than compelled to interrupt my barrel-rolling for any of this. Anybody with me, here, or did i totally miss out by not learning the mathematics of runology? Does the internal game-logic dictating who is most compatible with what magic, etc. build on itself throughout the series, kinda like the various threads of story?

edit: This thread is supposed to be about the first game.

...so, um, which character would you marry?

Parish
06-01-2008, 08:51 AM
I'm not sure the first game had that much depth. It's a breezy as RPGs come, and I usually just gave my favorite party members runes that seemed to fit with their specialty.

And I'd never marry a video game character. You should be ashamed for asking. However, I'd happily accept a threesome with Cleo and Kasumi.

Loki
06-01-2008, 09:32 AM
...so, um, which character would you marry?

Anyone who doesn't say Gremio is just deluding themselves.

http://www.rpgclassics.com/fanart/suikoden/Suikoden_s_Gremio_by_RachelYork.jpg

Pajaro Pete
06-01-2008, 10:39 AM
Man, I forgot how cumbersome the inventory system is in this game. And only one Rune slot for everyone. Oh boy.

shivam
06-01-2008, 11:00 AM
it gets super irritating in the late game, when you have to make sure someone has the dragon incense and all that.

Alixsar
06-01-2008, 11:16 AM
I would completely do this, if I wasn't still playing Persona 3/still had my copy of Suikoden. Sorry guys.

Balrog
06-01-2008, 11:24 AM
I would completely do this, if I wasn't still playing Persona 3/still had my copy of Suikoden. Sorry guys.
Yeah, this. I can't believe I got rid of my copy of Suikoden I and II.

Pajaro Pete
06-01-2008, 12:13 PM
it gets super irritating in the late game, when you have to make sure someone has the dragon incense and all that.

Yeah, and the Soul Eater is useful in a select few situations, at best. I'd rather be able to use my first level spell charges on Kindness Drops than Deadly Fingertips.

ringworm
06-01-2008, 04:14 PM
I played this for a bit just to check it out and see if it was something I wanted to get into after my current RPG is done, and much to my surprise it grabbed me. I ended up playing for ~3 hours and would probably still be playing if I hadn't lost all my money to some random chance game that is required to progress the story without having saved. That kinda took the wind out of my sails for today.

Roughly how long is this game?

Pajaro Pete
06-01-2008, 04:28 PM
Around 15 hours.

And yes, Tai Ho is a freaking bastard.

Ilchymis
06-01-2008, 07:56 PM
Yay! Finally an excuse to play this game for real! I've been missing out on this series for far too long.

Brickroad
06-02-2008, 08:47 AM
Tai Ho is a freak at Chinchirorin. Later on, though, you can recruit Gaspar and he sucks at it. 999,999 bits in two minutes? yesplz!

Why on earth would you care if someone has the Dragon Incense? Bank that crap and carry Mega Medicines.

shivam
06-02-2008, 09:53 AM
the trick is to mash on X when tai ho's arrow is over the chip in the cup, and he'll lose every time.

Calorie Mate
06-02-2008, 12:05 PM
Ok folks, how many of you are planning to cheat in rockland and get a shit ton of money?

Man, I did this the second time I played through the game, and I felt like a god. All my weapons were so sharp, and I had to simply see a rune and it was mine!


Is the game really only 15 hours? By comparison to most RPGs, it's short, but in my mind it still took much longer than that...huh.

Matchstick
06-02-2008, 04:17 PM
Is the game really only 15 hours? By comparison to most RPGs, it's short, but in my mind it still took much longer than that...huh.

I was thinking the same thing.

shivam
06-02-2008, 04:19 PM
15 hours if you don't get everyone, about 20-25 if you do.

So who else gets stallion and never lets him go? Playing that game without true holy is inconcievable.

ArugulaZ
06-02-2008, 04:59 PM
Anyone who doesn't say Gremio is just deluding themselves.

http://www.rpgclassics.com/fanart/suikoden/Suikoden_s_Gremio_by_RachelYork.jpg

I thought that was a dude! Then I saw the hot springs scene and... oh...

Suikoden was also released for the Sega Saturn, you know. Too bad it was only in Japan, like most awesome Saturn games.

Suikoden is also based on the novel Water Margin, which was a source of inspiration for several different video games (ie both Dark Legends).

Alixsar
06-02-2008, 06:53 PM
Suikoden is also based on the novel Water Margin, which was a source of inspiration for several different video games (ie both Dark Legends).

It's also a pretty damn good read. There's a 108 characters to keep track of, but I'll be damned if Song Jiang (that's the way it's translated in the version I read, anyway) couldn't beat the crap out McDohl in two seconds.

Well, actually...he probably couldn't. But he's still pretty awesome in his own way.

Brickroad
06-02-2008, 06:59 PM
True Holy is only useful on the overworld map, and just about the time you recruit Stallion, you get your Blinking Mirror. A regular Holy Rune lets you run everywhere else. I usually give mine to Viktor since he's got nothing better to use.

Eusis
06-02-2008, 08:07 PM
Huh, I was thinking of this recently too. I'll just continue off my old save from my incomplete pre-SuikV replay, I forget exactly where I was but I think I just got my castle.

Ruik
06-02-2008, 08:37 PM
Huh, I was thinking of this recently too. I'll just continue off my old save from my incomplete pre-SuikV replay, I forget exactly where I was but I think I just got my castle.

That's about where I am on my previous playthrough as well. I think my disc is back at my parents house though (several states away).

McDohl
06-02-2008, 09:47 PM
I almost missed this.

Sure, I'm in.

I did promise myself though that, the next time I replayed this game, I'd play the Saturn version, something I've been meaning to do since I bought my Saturn. I hope nobody minds! I've never played the Saturn version before. It'll be like playing the for the first time!

rlt
06-03-2008, 10:05 AM
So not only do you have me having to fire up Beyond Good and Evil, but now I have to start another game I've just had sitting around. One more game to compete with the others, with my reading, with everything else that makes rlt rlt.

Damn you Parish.

Damn you.

Pajaro Pete
06-03-2008, 10:28 AM
Man it's weird that Leknaat is actually like a person in this game, as opposed to the semi-omnipotent deity of vague and foreboding advice she becomes as the series goes on.

Falselogic
06-03-2008, 02:33 PM
But it's at the parent's house in southern California. Which I'll be visiting on the 20th of this month but I worry that but then everyone will have moved on to Etrian Odyssey 2, which since I've barely played the first will not be participating in...

Brickroad
06-03-2008, 02:38 PM
Man it's weird that Leknaat is actually like a person in this game, as opposed to the semi-omnipotent deity of vague and foreboding advice she becomes as the series goes on.

This has always caught me as well. It's vaguely upsetting to replay Suiko1 after any other game in the series and have her make comments about how cute the hero is.

Coinspinner
06-04-2008, 01:08 AM
Would you guys mind checking on this for me? It's been bugging me.

I really hated those moments in Suikoden where the Mathiu would ask if you were ready for battle, and regardless of what you responded with the battle would commence.

I can't remember any such moments. Usually he would just pick on you for being indecisive, but then let you wander off to manage equipment or shoot dice or whatever.

shivam
06-04-2008, 01:13 AM
if he gave you the option, you were always able to stop and tinker with your party or whatever. Its so that you could save before going.

Calorie Mate
06-04-2008, 12:49 PM
Man it's weird that Leknaat is actually like a person in this game, as opposed to the semi-omnipotent deity of vague and foreboding advice she becomes as the series goes on.

Yeah, I've always noticed this on replays, too. It makes me sad...although I never really understood why Leknaat was in any other game, anyway. She lives right near the Toran Republic anyway. (Of course, I've never understood how to pronounce her name, either.)

Pajaro Pete
06-04-2008, 01:48 PM
You can legitimately make a case for her in Suikoden 3, but she comes out of nowhere in Suikoden 2 and 5.

Brickroad
06-04-2008, 01:53 PM
Well, even omnipresent executors of balance (or whatev) have personal lives. Leknaat is probably in/around Scarlet Moon during that time period because she figured it was time to settle things with her sister after however many hundreds of years. Once that's taken care of she goes back to being a ghost lady or whatever it is she does.

shivam
06-04-2008, 02:03 PM
i would love to play a leknaat side story, where we learn about her and windy.

Pajaro Pete
06-04-2008, 02:14 PM
Well, even omnipresent executors of balance (or whatev) have personal lives. Leknaat is probably in/around Scarlet Moon during that time period because she figured it was time to settle things with her sister after however many hundreds of years. Once that's taken care of she goes back to being a ghost lady or whatever it is she does.

From what the internet tells me, she's actually hiding out at Magician's Island to protect herself from Windy. I guess this just means that McDohl's manly pheromones are so much greater than any of the other Suikoden protagonists (except Geddoe, naturally).

As an executor of balance, I'd like to see her balance things for the villains at least once.

Brickroad
06-04-2008, 02:18 PM
From what the internet tells me, she's actually hiding out at Magician's Island to protect herself from Windy. I guess this just means that McDohl's manly pheromones are so much greater than any of the other Suikoden protagonists (except Geddoe, naturally).

For the first few months where all our Suikoden 5 info was in the form of moon language magazine scans everyone thought the hero was a girl.

Pajaro Pete
06-04-2008, 02:19 PM
It's funny because once he changes into his "main" costume some of the characters walking around comment on how manly he looks.

Alixsar
06-05-2008, 01:10 AM
It's funny because once he changes into his "main" costume some of the characters walking around comment on how manly he looks.

His red outfit with the cape that he wears when he's running away was so much better than his "main" outfit. Ugh.

Man it's weird that Leknaat is actually like a person in this game, as opposed to the semi-omnipotent deity of vague and foreboding advice she becomes as the series goes on.

It's sad that I don't even remember this Leknaat anymore. I only remember her showing up and saying something vague every few hours/before important events. Which is presumably all she'll do in Suikoden VI, whenever Konami gets off their ass and releases it.

Calorie Mate
06-05-2008, 04:34 PM
i would love to play a leknaat side story, where we learn about her and windy.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I wouldn't. Easily the best thing about the Suikoden series (especially the first one) is that they just thrust you into a living, breathing world that feels like it has history. there's no hand-holding, and no point in the game where they flat-out tell you everything that's going on in the world; bits and pieces of legends and snippets of conversation are all you ever get.

In this vain, I really like that we know a little bit about Leknaat and Windy, but never get the whole story. We also never get a true sense of either of their power, but rather have that hinted at, too.

Kirin
06-06-2008, 07:24 AM
I presume that the final verdict on Leknaat, along with Yuber and Peshmerga and some other big players, is reserved for the apocryphal "Suikoden Final" that wraps up the story of the True Runes. Whether we ever see that presumably depends on whether the series lasts long enough for them to run out of runes.

(Of course, given that the original scenario writer left Konami during the production of III, we just have to hold out tenuous hope that the series is being written by someone decent at that point. I thought V's contributions to the world weren't bad though, so there's some possibility.)

Brickroad
06-06-2008, 08:26 AM
(Of course, given that the original scenario writer left Konami during the production of III, we just have to hold out tenuous hope that the series is being written by someone decent at that point. I thought V's contributions to the world weren't bad though, so there's some possibility.)

One of my favorite bits of trainspotting in the series is in Suikoden 5, where Lucretia reveals she witnessed the True Fire Rune going crazy in the Grasslands.

Of course, the best little nugget is in Suikoden 2, where investigating Georg reveals he killed the Queen of Falena, three games before it becomes relevant.

Whomever's writing Suikoden, they know their shit pretty well.

Pajaro Pete
06-06-2008, 10:03 AM
I presume that the final verdict on Leknaat, along with Yuber and Peshmerga and some other big players, is reserved for the apocryphal "Suikoden Final" that wraps up the story of the True Runes. Whether we ever see that presumably depends on whether the series lasts long enough for them to run out of runes.

I'm going to be super disappointed if Jeanne isn't the final boss of the series.

Alixsar
06-07-2008, 04:43 PM
You know, there's all this talk about unresolved questions in the Suikoden series...Yuber/Pesmerga, Windy/Leknaat, just who is Jeane? etc. And they're all supposed to be resolved in the "last" Suikoden. But when is that going to happen? At some point, is Konami just going to decide that they don't want to make RPGs anymore and axe their most successful RPG franchise? As far as I know, they still sell pretty well...are they going to make a game that wraps up the story, and then end the series entirely? Or wrap up the story, and then make an endless parade of sidestories and games set before the last one?

Or they'll just keep teasing us about the "end", and then just keep making games and never resolve anything. Oh Konami.

Sami
06-07-2008, 05:17 PM
As an executor of balance, I'd like to see her balance things for the villains at least once.

Oh, this would be so awesome. Which means Konami will never make any move towards it.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I wouldn't. Easily the best thing about the Suikoden series (especially the first one) is that they just thrust you into a living, breathing world that feels like it has history. there's no hand-holding, and no point in the game where they flat-out tell you everything that's going on in the world; bits and pieces of legends and snippets of conversation are all you ever get.

Yeah, definitely. There's so much going on that there's always going to be loose ends. And the thing where characters might not say pretty much anything about what they're actually doing and what's going on... that's pretty much how it often happens in real life. No "Hey, wanna listen to my life story?" characters in Suikoden.

Kirin
06-08-2008, 09:52 AM
You know, there's all this talk about unresolved questions in the Suikoden series...Yuber/Pesmerga, Windy/Leknaat, just who is Jeane? etc. And they're all supposed to be resolved in the "last" Suikoden. But when is that going to happen? At some point, is Konami just going to decide that they don't want to make RPGs anymore and axe their most successful RPG franchise? As far as I know, they still sell pretty well...are they going to make a game that wraps up the story, and then end the series entirely? Or wrap up the story, and then make an endless parade of sidestories and games set before the last one?

Or they'll just keep teasing us about the "end", and then just keep making games and never resolve anything. Oh Konami.

Well, like I speculated above, at some point they're going to run out of unexplored True Runes, since there's a finite number. One may notice they've been slowing down the revelation in that respect... I think the first three games each involve at least a handful of True Runes, while the last two have one new one each, I believe. Seems like evidence that they would rather *not* have to do the "final" installment any time in the near future.

Of course, even if/when they did run out, they could always pull some kind of universe closure/reboot with a new set of runes or some other governing mechanic if they really wanted to keep things going. But realistically I think such a thing is so far out that it's pretty pointless to speculate. The world design still has at *least* an entire continent unexplored and nine unmentioned True Runes left to introduce.

Calorie Mate
06-09-2008, 11:46 AM
You know, there's all this talk about unresolved questions in the Suikoden series...Yuber/Pesmerga, Windy/Leknaat, just who is Jeane? etc. And they're all supposed to be resolved in the "last" Suikoden. But when is that going to happen? At some point, is Konami just going to decide that they don't want to make RPGs anymore and axe their most successful RPG franchise? As far as I know, they still sell pretty well...are they going to make a game that wraps up the story, and then end the series entirely? Or wrap up the story, and then make an endless parade of sidestories and games set before the last one?

I'd be ok with them doing one to wrap up at least one or two of the running plot lines (like Yuber/Pesmerga, Windy/Leknaat, etc.). Maybe wrap up one of those per game? (Of course, I'd want it to have an awesome scenario writer, great localization, and have great gameplay mechanics, and it seems unlikely we'll get all three of those.) Plus, side stories aren't necessarily a bad thing...hell, my favorite part of Suikoden II was the original storyline and main charcaters. I don't see why that can't be the case again.

(Also, I really want to know what the deal was with Crowley and that other wizard. Their epic showdown is...a little out of place in the known timeline [i.e. it comes first, before either of them were born] and I was always intrigued by that.)

Or they'll just keep teasing us about the "end", and then just keep making games and never resolve anything. Oh Konami.

Alas, this is probably the most likely scenario.

Brickroad
06-09-2008, 11:49 AM
I still want the next Tenkai Star to be a girl.

And not just a boy who looks like a girl like in Suiko5.

Eusis
06-10-2008, 05:16 PM
... I've made a grand total of about 30 minutes of progress since I last posted, enough to get lost by going the opposite direction from where I'd have to go to reach my castle, then after reaching it having a banquet and a failed assassination. I can't help but feel that rather than playing this I could be wrapping up my backlog of games that I've made significant progress in, and it doesn't help this is about my third time through this portion of the game.

Alixsar
06-10-2008, 09:57 PM
I still want the next Tenkai Star to be a girl.

And not just a boy who looks like a girl like in Suiko5.

Hey, he looked cool in his alternate costume. Then again, he only wore that for, like, five minutes. So nevermind.