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Parish
06-26-2008, 01:51 PM
You are allowed to play this one over and over again, if you want. Because it's that good.

Mega Man 2
Capcom | Action | NES and various ports | 1989

nunix
06-26-2008, 02:10 PM
That "Okkusenman" has kind of forever ruined MM2 for me. It's all I can hear now.

MCBanjoMike
06-26-2008, 02:20 PM
You are allowed to play this one over and over again, if you want.

I think I have, because my playthrough of MM2 felt a little bit too rote. I did it the hard way, playing on the non-easy difficulty (Normal in the Anniversary Collection) and taking Heat Man and Quick Man out before anyone else. I also did not abuse the pause trick to get through the fight with the wall-cannons, which is not unprecedented, but I often have a moment of weakness there since I don't want to do it more than once.

I noticed while playing this game that the music isn't emulated, but rather is streamed from the disc. This has the bonus effect, for better or for worse, of your shots not compromising the music, since they aren't fighting for sound channels. Overall I think it's a good thing, although there was a bit of a music glitch during the ending credit roll where a section got repeated by mistake. Which is too bad, because that music is just so damn happy.

Octopus Prime
06-26-2008, 02:25 PM
Well I had to hunt down and dust off my collection of regular old X-Box games to find Anniversary Collection, but here we are.

As always, I started by Getting Equipped with Metal Blade.

My Mega Man skills have clearly atrophied though, since I died like 4 times trying to beat the level.

Ample Vigour
06-26-2008, 02:26 PM
That "Okkusenman" has immeasurably improved MM2 for me. It's all I can hear now.

fix'd

Yeah I'm down for this. Metal Blades forever!

OCTOPUS: Is it just me, or do you notice lag in the Anniversary Collection? I can't beat the falling platform section of Bubble Man's stage without Item 2 on Xbox, but can on most other platforms...

MCBanjoMike
06-26-2008, 02:31 PM
fix'd

Yeah I'm down for this. Metal Blades forever!

OCTOPUS: Is it just me, or do you notice lag in the Anniversary Collection? I can't beat the falling platform section of Bubble Man's stage without Item 2 on Xbox, but can on most other platforms...

Are you using a HDTV? The combination of last-gen console resolutions with HDTV induced lag (while it converts the resolution to something it can deal with) has been previously documented as a cause of soul-crushing Mega Lag.

Octopus Prime
06-26-2008, 02:35 PM
The Anniversary Collection has been my primary (indeed, only) source of Old School Mega Mannery since it was released, and was my first experience since I played it on my NES lo' those many years ago.

Therego: I wouldn't have noticed any Lag if it ran up and bit my tuckus.

Ample Vigour
06-26-2008, 02:46 PM
Are you using a HDTV? The combination of last-gen console resolutions with HDTV induced lag (while it converts the resolution to something it can deal with) has been previously documented as a cause of soul-crushing Mega Lag.

BLAST

Once again I am undone by the 21st century!

Excitemike
06-26-2008, 02:54 PM
BLAST

Once again I am undone by the 20XX century!

Parish
06-26-2008, 03:03 PM
If you have a first-gen PS3, the PS2 version of MMAC will automatically be output as progressive scan. If the GC version supported progressive scan, that will also work on Wii. Either way, lag shouldn't be an issue. And, hell, there's always emulation.

shivam
06-26-2008, 03:10 PM
so what's your boss order?

Tomm Guycot
06-26-2008, 03:13 PM
If you have a first-gen PS3, the PS2 version of MMAC will automatically be output as progressive scan. If the GC version supported progressive scan, that will also work on Wii. Either way, lag shouldn't be an issue. And, hell, there's always emulation.

It causes major lag actually.

My question: if I set my PS3 res to 480i, will it solve this?

Loki
06-26-2008, 03:14 PM
Flash, Metal, Bubble, Wood, Air, Crash, Quick, Heat.

Yeah, I know, it's all sorts of messed up. But that's the order I played as a kid, and that's the order they'll carve into my tombstone.

Brickroad
06-26-2008, 03:15 PM
so what's your boss order?

Metal -> Wood -> Air -> Crash -> Flash -> Quick -> Bubble -> Heat

No, I don't care if it's suboptimal. It is right.

Tomm Guycot
06-26-2008, 03:25 PM
Bubble - Air - Metal - Wood - Crash - Heat - Flash - Quick

Sometimes I do Metal Man first... but Bubble has the best music.

Alixsar
06-26-2008, 03:26 PM
so what's your boss order?

Metal > Um, does it matter? You have the Metal Blade. > Quick Man is last, because I HATE QUICK MAN'S STAGE SO SO MUCH

MCBanjoMike
06-26-2008, 03:29 PM
My most recent playthrough started with the 1-2 punch of Heat Man-Quick Man, 'cause I wanted to be all hardcore. Normally I'd start with Metal Man, since he's a pushover and then you get to have the Metal Blade for the rest of the game, which is totally awesome and also totally sweet.

Torgo
06-26-2008, 03:33 PM
I'll tackle the Robot Masters in mostly any order, but Air Man is always first. This is not up for discussion: It is a tradition rooted in antiquity.

PapillonReel
06-26-2008, 03:51 PM
Metal > Bubble > Heat > Wood > Air > Crash > Flash > Quick

Every big weakness gets taken advantage of and all Items are acquired in order.

Brickroad
06-26-2008, 03:53 PM
all Items are acquired in order.

There's an order?

Octopus Prime
06-26-2008, 04:03 PM
Well, there's Item 1, 2 and 3. So Numerical order, I guess.

I always go for:
Metal > Wood > Bubble > Flash > Air > Crash > Heat > Quick

PapillonReel
06-26-2008, 04:07 PM
There's an order?

Item 1 > Item 2 > Item 3

Brickroad
06-26-2008, 04:08 PM
Item 1 > Item 2 > Item 3

You are SUCH a nerd.

mike
06-26-2008, 04:38 PM
I was first exposed to Megaman 2 while staying at the house of my parents' friends one summer when I was eight. Their older kids, who were magnanimous enough to let my sister and I watch them play video games once in a while, drilled into us that the only correct progression is Air > Crash > Metal > Bubble > Heat > Wood > Flash > Quick. This notion stuck with me so indelibly that I've never strayed from it once in all the times I've played the game since then. Despite a lingering sense of uneasiness about the idea, I'm going to see if I can complete it while playing it wrong this time through.

Tomm Guycot
06-26-2008, 04:41 PM
How did you beat Crash Man's stage w/out the Leaf Shield protecting you from the bird eggs on the ladder section?

shivam
06-26-2008, 04:48 PM
luck? lots of retries?

mike
06-26-2008, 04:55 PM
How did you beat Crash Man's stage w/out the Leaf Shield protecting you from the bird eggs on the ladder section?

I just did it by climbing up continuously. You'd take a hit, but could still grab onto the ladder before you fall far enough to scroll the screen down. I imagine the Metal Blades could also be used decently enough to clear the birds before they reach you, too, but it's totally irrelevant, since those weapons always come after Crash Man's stage.

Sanagi
06-26-2008, 05:30 PM
Here are the rules for winning most elegantly:
Metal Man first
Air Man before Crash Man and Heat Man
Bubble Man before Heat Man
Heat Man before Wood Man
Crash Man and Heat Man before Flash Man
Flash Man before Quick Man

Maybe I'll try doing it backwards.

How did you beat Crash Man's stage w/out the Leaf Shield protecting you from the bird eggs on the ladder section?
Hit 'em with metal blades or air shooter, or failing that, just keep trying until they spawn on the left side of the screen.

Mazian
06-26-2008, 06:19 PM
I've taken to beating Quick Man first, because the Quick Boomerang destroys just about everything in the other seven stages. What it lacks in range, it makes up for in absurdly high damage stats.

Niku
06-26-2008, 06:29 PM
guys i was trying to get past heat man's stage and i couldn't get past those damn disappearing blocks so i figured i'd just go get the jet

and yet i can't beat air man

so i figured i would go get the leaf shield so i could beat air man

but i can't beat wood man

so i figured if i had heat man's weapon, i could beat wood man

but

Merus
06-26-2008, 06:49 PM
My first Mega Man experience was Rockman and Forte and X3, I think it was. Playing Mega Man 2, I'm struck by how easy the bosses are compared to the later games, and conversely how difficult the stages are.

I put down my first ever playthrough a while ago due to distraction. Guess I'll pick it back up!

Balrog
06-26-2008, 08:33 PM
Say "NO!" to Metal Blade abuse.

Zef
06-26-2008, 10:45 PM
guys i was trying to get past heat man's stage and i couldn't get past those damn disappearing blocks so i figured i'd just go get the jet

and yet i can't beat air man

so i figured i would go get the leaf shield so i could beat air man

but i can't beat wood man

so i figured if i had heat man's weapon, i could beat wood man

but

I love you (http://youtube.com/watch?v=hUVdA9ABzpg).

Alastor
06-26-2008, 10:48 PM
guys i was trying to get past heat man's stage and i couldn't get past those damn disappearing blocks so i figured i'd just go get the jet

and yet i can't beat air man

so i figured i would go get the leaf shield so i could beat air man

but i can't beat wood man

so i figured if i had heat man's weapon, i could beat wood man

but

That's actually a universal dilemma. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUVdA9ABzpg) I myself have never beaten a single MM2 robot master. Aaaaaaaaaaand there goes my nerd cred.

Edit: Is the correct term "ninja'd" or "sniped"?

Alixsar
06-27-2008, 02:19 AM
Say "NO!" to Metal Blade abuse.

Say "NO!" to Adam, because he's clearly insane.

Also, I had this stuck in my head at work all day because of this thread. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUVdA9ABzpg) It's true, though. He just won't die. I always have trouble with him.

dosboot
06-27-2008, 02:43 AM
MM2 warmed my heart because you don't need to know the boss weaknesses to fight them effectively. It's not trial and error, it is trial and surprise. Plus, there's always like 3 wrong weapons which work swimmingly too. Can anyone enlighten me if there are other MM games which have the same philosophy? And are there MM games without the charge shot besides the early ones before they introduced it?

Octopus Prime
06-27-2008, 05:14 AM
If you played in Hard Mode in the first Megaman Zero you wouldn't get any Charge attacks at all.

Well, except for with the Boomerang Shield.

MCBanjoMike
06-27-2008, 06:56 AM
I love you (http://youtube.com/watch?v=hUVdA9ABzpg).

Oh man, that is amazing.

To people having trouble beating ANY robot masters: Metal Man is easier than he looks. You can just jump on the spot and shoot a lot (eventually moving when he changes sides) and have a pretty good chance of beating him without any strategy. And once you have the Metal Blade, all kinds of doors open up...

Loki
06-27-2008, 07:20 AM
I'm surprised people are having trouble beating Air Man with the Mega Buster.

Brickroad
06-27-2008, 09:21 AM
Metal Man's stage also has an Energy Tank or two inside, though I think one is a suicidal prospect without any Items.

Though yeah, real men don't abuse Metal Blade. THE MORE YOU KNOW

TheSL
06-27-2008, 09:24 AM
I think Air Man is a lot easier when you rematch him in the Doc Robot stages of MM3. The slide does wonders for avoiding those stupid mini-tornadoes.

MCBanjoMike
06-27-2008, 10:10 AM
Though yeah, real men don't abuse Metal Blade. THE MORE YOU KNOW

Define "abuse" for me. I use the Metal Blade where I want, when I want, because it's fun to do so. Is that abuse? Or do you have to keep it on basically all the time for it to count?

Sven
06-27-2008, 10:11 AM
Air Man's very beatable if you get to him with full health, because then you can just turn it into a brawl and trade two mega buster hits for every time you get clonked with a tornado. You get a couple of free shots in when he changes sides, and that's usually enough to win comfortably. The Leaf Shield really isn't necessary to take him out, which is why he's the traditional starting point in the sequence.

(Of course, Metal Man's the same way, but you miss out on some items without #2 in your possession.)

I'll tackle the Robot Masters in mostly any order, but Air Man is always first. This is not up for discussion: It is a tradition rooted in antiquity.

This has credence and validity.

I've noted it many times, but Air -> Metal -> (Wood / Bubble / Crash / Flash) -> Heat ->: Quick. Quickman's stage is diverse enough to slot it last, especially if (like me) you still can't get past the second set of lasers without using the Flash Stopper, which then mandates recharging it against those annoying Walkers, which are a headache in and of themselves since they're most vulnerable to... the Quick Boomerang.

Real men don't Metal Blade Metal Man, though. He is too honourable an opponent to go down like a punk.

Brickroad
06-27-2008, 10:13 AM
Define "abuse" for me. I use the Metal Blade where I want, when I want, because it's fun to do so. Is that abuse? Or do you have to keep it on basically all the time for it to count?

Basically, the weapon is so broken that if you use it at all ever you are abusing it.

I mean, it's fine if you don't want to be a REAL man. Not even Mega Man is a real manly man, you know. You ever hear the kid talk?

Anyway, real men dress in pink and use Quick Boomerangs. Everywhere.

PapillonReel
06-27-2008, 10:16 AM
Anyway, real men dress in green and use Leaf Shields. Everywhere.

Fixed.

Brickroad
06-27-2008, 10:22 AM
I should clarify that when I call Metal Blade "broken" I very strongly do believe its insane usefulness is the result of a programmer error of some kind. You get three shots per one unit of energy; the weapon would be much better balanced if each single shot used three units of energy (where you'd get 10 or so shots, instead of 90, with a full meter).

Someone stuck the variables in wrong, and we ended up with an endless multi-directional weapon that flies full-screen.

Also I tend to really hardcore overthink Mega Man shit, so feel free to just call me a nerd and ignore me, I mean that's what I do a lot of the time.

Makkara
06-27-2008, 10:30 AM
I should clarify that when I call Metal Blade "broken" I very strongly do believe its insane usefulness is the result of a programmer error of some kind. You get three shots per one unit of energy; the weapon would be much better balanced if each single shot used three units of energy (where you'd get 10 or so shots, instead of 90, with a full meter).

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. The Metal Blade uses little energy, but it's balanced by bouncing off more types of enemies than any other weapon, with the possible exception of Quick Boomerang, but that's not exactly an energy guzzler either.

Brickroad
06-27-2008, 10:35 AM
I'm pretty sure you're wrong. The Metal Blade uses little energy, but it's balanced by bouncing off more types of enemies than any other weapon, with the possible exception of Quick Boomerang, but that's not exactly an energy guzzler either.

Quick Boomerang also has a very limited range. Besides, Metal Blades don't bounce of that many monsters... the chickens in Wood Man's level come to mind immediately, what else was there?

It could just be they hadn't figured out how useful various weapons should be, yet. They really nail it in MM3, where every weapon has its uses but no single weapon outshines all the rest.

PapillonReel
06-27-2008, 10:39 AM
Quick Boomerang also has a very limited range. Besides, Metal Blades don't bounce of that many monsters... the chickens in Wood Man's level come to mind immediately, what else was there

Well, there's also the bosses you fight in the Wily stages, the Robot Masters, some of those big monster things in Wood Man's stage, and those mech things you see in Flash Man's stage, amongst others.

Honestly, I thought the weapons in MM2 were the most balanced in the series. Every time I run through the game, I always find myself using the sub-weapons in specific instances, and rarely does one trump them all. Metal Blade may be good, but Leaf Shield's better against the suicidal enemies and the Air Shooter and Atomic Heat deal with the tougher enemies much faster. There's also those spring things which are weak only to Bubble Lead, as well as the resistant enemies that fall insanely quickly to the Quick Boomerang. Oh! And the Time Stopper in Quick Man's stage was a great help before I learned how to avoid them.

MCBanjoMike
06-27-2008, 10:40 AM
Real men don't Metal Blade Metal Man, though. He is too honourable an opponent to go down like a punk.

Eh, by the time I can do that I've already beat him in a fair fight with nothing by the arm cannon (can you call it the Mega Buster prior to MM4?). By the time the rematch comes around, we already know how things are going to go, and I don't have time to waste reliving history.

Basically, the weapon is so broken that if you use it at all ever you are abusing it.

If using the Metal Blade is wrong, I don't want to be right.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. The Metal Blade uses little energy, but it's balanced by bouncing off more types of enemies than any other weapon, with the possible exception of Quick Boomerang, but that's not exactly an energy guzzler either.

I agree with that the chances of the Metal Blade being "broken" due to a "programming error" are "extremely poor". Think of the Butterfly boss at the end of Wily stage 2 - it basically screams "use Metal Blade on me!". Since each one takes a couple of shots, you'd run out way too fast if the blade used more than 1 energy per shot.

No, I'm pretty sure that the programmers made the Metal Blade the way they did because they wanted Mega Man 2 to be the most awesome game ever. Good show, Inafking and company!

Brickroad
06-27-2008, 10:45 AM
Bah, you guys are all just flat out wrong. Someday you will see the error of your ways. OR DIE TRYING.

I am curious now though as to how many other universally useful weapons there are in the series? That is, how many weapons could you use as a replacement for the Arm Cannon/Mega Buster?

Maybe when I go back through the games this weekend I'll try some stuff out.

Makkara
06-27-2008, 10:49 AM
Besides, Metal Blades don't bounce of that many monsters... the chickens in Wood Man's level come to mind immediately, what else was there?

Off the top of my head, there's the big walkers, those little domed guys that slide along the floors and the cylinder stacks (I think, or maybe it's just that the blade is so big that it's hard to hit the vulnerable part). Probably a couple more I'm forgetting. Also, it doesn't kill those hermit crab bots in Bubble Man's stage. It just strips them of their shell and makes them faster.

MCBanjoMike
06-27-2008, 10:54 AM
I am curious now though as to how many other universally useful weapons there are in the series? That is, how many weapons could you use as a replacement for the Arm Cannon/Mega Buster?

I nominate the Elec Beam, which is my second favorite in the series after the Blades. Cheap, powerful, hits in multiple directions, what more could you want?

Brickroad
06-27-2008, 10:57 AM
I think the little domed guys are immune to everything but Leaf Shield, which is typical of that style enemy throughout the series. (The ones in MM4 are vulnerable only to Rain Flush, as I recall.)

You're right about the stacks and crabs; they take two shots with M but die to one shot of P -- on Normal/Easy Mode. On Difficult, they take two shots even with P.

I've made my beef with Metal Blade clear, I think: I like my Mega Man weapons to be something I have to think about using, and in what situations they might be useful, not something I pick off the menu to replace my regular blaster and then not worry about again. We can stop arguing about Metal Blade now.

NEW ARGUMENT: Time Stopper on Quick Man? Or in Quick Man's stage?

Kishi
06-27-2008, 11:19 AM
Always on Quickman. The beams in his stage aren't so hard to avoid that it's worth sacrificing weapons energy to cheat past them.

MCBanjoMike
06-27-2008, 11:25 AM
NEW ARGUMENT: Time Stopper on Quick Man? Or in Quick Man's stage?

Last time I beat Quick Man BEFORE taking on Flash Man. Stick that in your "Metal Blade is for wussies" pipe and smoke it.

Parish
06-27-2008, 11:28 AM
That's actually a universal dilemma. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUVdA9ABzpg) I myself have never beaten a single MM2 robot master. Aaaaaaaaaaand there goes my nerd cred.
Start with Metal Man. He doesn't actually throw blades at you unless you shoot at him. Hold your fire and he'll just jump a bit, and you can take your time.

PapillonReel
06-27-2008, 11:31 AM
Quick Man's stage is pretty easy to dodge once you've been through it once though, so there's not really much there to talk about. A better argument would be "do you use Item 2 in Heat Man's stage"?

My stance, of course, is tough it out, soldier.

Kishi
06-27-2008, 11:31 AM
Last time I beat Quick Man BEFORE taking on Flash Man. Stick that in your "Metal Blade is for wussies" pipe and smoke it.

Last time I played, I died after using Time Stopper, so I had to kill him without it. It's actually not that hard, thanks to his habit of getting hung up on his own terrain.

Brickroad
06-27-2008, 11:32 AM
Last time I beat Quick Man BEFORE taking on Flash Man. Stick that in your "Metal Blade is for wussies" pipe and smoke it.

You sir are hard core. But I think I still have you beat.

Wait until the MM4 thread, where I reveal that I put Ring Man in the front of my boss order and can usually beat him without sustaining damage.

Zef
06-27-2008, 11:36 AM
Quickman's stage is diverse enough to slot it last, especially if (like me) you still can't get past the second set of lasers without using the Flash Stopper, which then mandates recharging it against those annoying Walkers, which are a headache in and of themselves since they're most vulnerable to... the Quick Boomerang.

If you run up to them, so that all four tornadoes hit, you can destroy the Walkers in a single blast from the Air Shooter. Sniper Joe will block them all with his shield, though.

I think the developers realized just how good the Metal Blade was after the game's release, which is why the Shadow Blade (which even makes the same sound) is a boomerang weapon that travels only a short distance, and can only be thrown in four directions.

Start with Metal Man. He doesn't actually throw blades at you unless you shoot at him. Hold your fire and he'll just jump a bit, and you can take your time.

Metal Man just wants to do exercise in peace :( How would YOU feel if you were on the treadmill, minding your own business, and some blue kid started shooting at you?

Sven
06-27-2008, 11:42 AM
Helpful Air Man w/o other weapons tips (since I just played him a few times on difficult):

(1) Start running forwards IMMEDIATELY when you get control back after he beams in. For most of the tornado patterns, you won't have enough time to jump the first tornado of the first wave unless you do this.

(2) The pattern is hop the first tornado, then try to get a shot off. Don't worry if you're hit once - you'll hit twice AS LONG AS YOU GET BEHIND THE TORNDADO. There's a couple formations for which you can't do much, but even then I *think* you can sneak a shot in.

(3) Remember to keep holding towards Air Man at all times, or else you could be pushed behind a tornado.

(4) You should have him reasonably close to half health by the time he first off his first three salvoes... at which point, he jumps right next to you. For a boss whose entire gimmick is to keep you at a distance, this essentially is his way of giving up (much like Bubbleman later). Just rapid-fire about six or seven shots into him for the win.

EDIT: And for Metal Man, it's the opposite strategy - you always want to be far away from him, with the conveyor belt pushing you back into the wall. Jump the metal blades and counter-fire, and when he switches the belt RUN STRAIGHT AT HIM. He'll hop to the other side, restoring your stalemate.

MCBanjoMike
06-27-2008, 12:06 PM
You sir are hard core. But I think I still have you beat.

Wait until the MM4 thread, where I reveal that I put Ring Man in the front of my boss order and can usually beat him without sustaining damage.

:O

Ring Man is a son of a bitch.

PapillonReel
06-27-2008, 12:07 PM
Guys - Item 2 for Heat Man's stage. Yay or nay?

Brickroad
06-27-2008, 12:09 PM
Guys - Item 2 for Heat Man's stage. Yay or nay?

When I was a kid I did it because it was the only way I could win the level ("get me out of this level!" card).

After a few years I stopped using it because I wanted to prove I was manly (street cred).

Now I'm back to using it because I'm all growed up and have better things to do than dicking around with vanishing blocks (nothing left to prove).

MCBanjoMike
06-27-2008, 12:16 PM
I'd only ever done it once in my life prior to my replay last weekend, but I decided to man up and do it on my own again. Turns out it's actually way easier than it looks, it only took a few tries to figure out the pattern. It's all intimidation, man.

Ethan
06-27-2008, 12:17 PM
Always item 2 for Heat Man.

It strikes me as odd that there even needs to be a written strategy to Air Man. My tactic has always been to just patternlessly, thoughtlessly steamroll him, and I'm always able to do that without taking much damage. He's actually my usual starting point. Air Man > Crash Man > Quick Man (the bombs kill him in like 3 shots if you hit him point blank with them) > Metal Man > Bubble Man > Heat Man > Wood Man. And you can throw Flash Man anywhere in there because he also requires no strategy, like Air Man.

I honed my Quick Man laser dodging motor memory as a wee lad, and it's still with me. I don't believe I've ever used the time stopper on that part.

After I beat Quick Man, I spend about 95% of the rest of the game with the boomerang equipped.

Tavir
06-27-2008, 12:19 PM
I think the little domed guys are immune to everything but Leaf Shield, which is typical of that style enemy throughout the series.

I believe they also succumb to Bubble Lead (we're talking about those guys who spring up when you get hit, right?)

Parish
06-27-2008, 12:21 PM
I did Heat Man's stage sans Item-2 once, to prove to myself I could. That is all I ever need. I will happily fight the Yellow Devil without the pause trick, but vanishing blocks are a war crime.

Sven
06-27-2008, 12:25 PM
Huh. After bitching about it, I just did a clean run through the Quick Man beams without the Time Stopper. Haven't done that in YEARS.

Quick Man and Flash Man both have similar "lead them into the Crash Bombs" strategies.

MCBanjoMike
06-27-2008, 12:37 PM
Huh. After bitching about it, I just did a clean run through the Quick Man beams without the Time Stopper. Haven't done that in YEARS.

Quick Man and Flash Man both have similar "lead them into the Crash Bombs" strategies.

I thought Flash Man had a "shoot him until he dies" strategy. Alternately, "shoot with with Metal Blades until he dies".

PapillonReel
06-27-2008, 12:44 PM
Quick Man and Flash Man both have similar "lead them into the Crash Bombs" strategies.

Flash Man especially - not only is the terrain slope-y and his movement slow, but he has to stop to attack. It's very easy to off him with one Crash Bomb.

Alastor
06-27-2008, 12:47 PM
Start with Metal Man. He doesn't actually throw blades at you unless you shoot at him. Hold your fire and he'll just jump a bit, and you can take your time.

That works for me to an extent, but eventually it becomes a war of attrition and I can never outlast him. Fighting Metal Man has been one of my major stumbling blocks for years. Meh. Mega Man just isn't my game.

Edit: Maybe my problem is I feel like I have to play the whole game with only the arm cannon. Having to resort to anything else feels like copping out. Am I doing it wrong?

Ethan
06-27-2008, 12:49 PM
I just beat Quick Man with the Mega Buster. Holla.

PapillonReel
06-27-2008, 12:52 PM
Edit: Maybe my problem is I feel like I have to play the whole game with only the arm cannon. Having to resort to anything else feels like copping out. Am I doing it wrong?

No offense, but... yeah. :( The sub-weapons you get are helpful for not only beating the robot masters, but make traversing many of the stages far easier. Using only the Mega Buster is only going to end up hurting you in both the short and long term.

Brickroad
06-27-2008, 12:57 PM
I just beat Quick Man with the Mega Buster. Holla.

Pedantic response: No, you beat him with the Arm Cannon. He doesn't get a Mega Buster until MM4.

Normal person response: Nice job!

Tavir
06-27-2008, 01:01 PM
Edit: Maybe my problem is I feel like I have to play the whole game with only the arm cannon. Having to resort to anything else feels like copping out. Am I doing it wrong?

I think this is a good "challenge mode" way to play the game, and I personally enjoy playing this way after many years of Mega Man experience. However, if it's your first time through the game, absolutely use those weapons. That's what they are there for!

Ethan
06-27-2008, 01:07 PM
http://s3.amazonaws.com/destro713/thefuture.png

What a world we live in.

Also, I just beat Bubble Man on difficult with the arm cannon with over half of my life bar intact.

Sven
06-27-2008, 01:14 PM
Edit: Maybe my problem is I feel like I have to play the whole game with only the arm cannon. Having to resort to anything else feels like copping out. Am I doing it wrong?

In the specific case of Metal Man, no. But for the rest of the game, YES. That's a big reason why Mega Man 2 is so much fun - you have actual reasons to use the other weapons throughout the stages.

I thought Flash Man had a "shoot him until he dies" strategy.

Bah, takes too long. And leading him into Crash Bombs is MUCH more fun, especially since the first one you fire is the second the battle starts. He just stumbles right into it, and occasionally doesn't escape.

MCBanjoMike
06-27-2008, 01:17 PM
Bah, takes too long. And leading him into Crash Bombs is MUCH more fun, especially since the first one you fire is the second the battle starts. He just stumbles right into it, and occasionally doesn't escape.

I don't think I've ever done that, probably because I typically go after Crash Man late in the game and Crash Bombs are too precious a commodity to waste in Wily's Castle. (More to the point, you fight the Robot Masters for the second time right after using all your Crash Bombs to beat the wall cannons.)

Brickroad
06-27-2008, 01:19 PM
(More to the point, you fight the Robot Masters for the second time right after using all your Crash Bombs to beat the wall cannons.)

If you're awesome enough, you can win that battle with a shot or two of C left.

Are you awesome enough, The Banjoman?

mike
06-27-2008, 01:19 PM
I think this is a good "challenge mode" way to play the game, and I personally enjoy playing this way after many years of Mega Man experience. However, if it's your first time through the game, absolutely use those weapons. That's what they are there for!

Yeah, I replayed MM2 last night, taking on the stages in reverse order from my traditional progression, going through the Quick Man and Heat Man stages without time stopper or item 2, and only using the arm cannon until Wily's fortress. It was a pretty effective way to restore the game's difficulty, which had been eroded by decades of motor memory.

Is the MMAC port of the game based on a different version than the one that originally appeared in the north american cartridge release? It didn't seem more difficult, necessarily, but there were occasionally enemy placements and behaviors that seemed off to me.

PapillonReel
06-27-2008, 01:19 PM
I don't think I've ever done that, probably because I typically go after Crash Man late in the game and Crash Bombs are too precious a commodity to waste in Wily's Castle. (More to the point, you fight the Robot Masters for the second time right after using all your Crash Bombs to beat the wall cannons.)

The interesting thing about that Wily battle is that, once you destroy them, the walls STAY destroyed. In theory, you could blow them up, kill yourself, charge up and finish the battle with some energy left over for the rematches.

At least, I remember that happening.

MCBanjoMike
06-27-2008, 01:25 PM
If you're awesome enough, you can win that battle with a shot or two of C left.

Are you awesome enough, The Banjoman?

No. >:|

The interesting thing about that Wily battle is that, once you destroy them, the walls STAY destroyed. In theory, you could blow them up, kill yourself, charge up and finish the battle with some energy left over for the rematches.

At least, I remember that happening.

The Banjoman don't throw no fights, boy!

Kishi
06-27-2008, 01:29 PM
It's not worth the grief anyway. Trying to farm weapons energy in that stage is like squeezing blood from a stone.

alexb
06-27-2008, 01:43 PM
You sir are hard core. But I think I still have you beat.

Wait until the MM4 thread, where I reveal that I put Ring Man in the front of my boss order and can usually beat him without sustaining damage.

Wait, I thought the traditional starting point for MM4 was Ring Man...

Brickroad
06-27-2008, 01:44 PM
Wait, I thought the traditional starting point for MM4 was Ring Man...

Traditional starting point is Toad Man, who can be killed effortlessly. Ring Man is considered one of the harder bosses.

Egarwaen
06-27-2008, 01:45 PM
The reason I've recently discovered that I love Mega Man 2: it's the most accessible of all the NES Mega Mans that I've played.

MM1 has the Gutsman Platforms right at the start. MM3 has the slide and Proto-man and Doc Robot fights. MM4 just has a lot of unfair difficulty. 5+ are just kinda lame.

MM2 is simple and has very cleverly-balanced difficulty. Yes, there's a lot of tough bits, but there's almost always a way around them using an item. And there's enough variety in challenges that different people get stuck on different things. So you can make the game as hard or as easy for you as you want by just varying your boss order.

Loki
06-27-2008, 01:47 PM
Didn't Nintendo Power list Ring Man as the ideal starting point?

Brickroad
06-27-2008, 01:48 PM
Didn't Nintendo Power list Ring Man as the ideal starting point?

Nintendo Power also told you to grind GIANTs in the Earth Cave.

Loki
06-27-2008, 01:50 PM
Didn't that Fun Club by that one guy endorse that strategy?

Eirikr
06-27-2008, 01:52 PM
Though this is my favorite game of all time, I usually play it on Normal instead of Hard. I play on Hard every once in a while, but Normal is just so much fun, I usually play through the game multiple times in a single sitting. I can probably beat the game in about 35-40 minutes, I've never actually timed myself. I never use the Flash Stopper, and I never use Item-2 in Heat Man's stage.

I've also started to be able to jump on the sides of those faces in Air Man's stage, but that takes real precision to avoid getting hit by their horns. Makes the stage a lot faster though. If I die once, I usually think of it as a total defeat.

Ethan
06-27-2008, 01:53 PM
I've also started to be able to jump on the sides of those faces in Air Man's stage

You mean as opposed to using Item 2?

It's never occurred to me to use that there. I never have it by that point.

Kishi
06-27-2008, 01:55 PM
Well, of course not. You get Item #2 by beating Air Man.

Ethan
06-27-2008, 01:56 PM
Well, of course not. You get Item #2 by beating Air Man.

Ah, so you do. I don't know who gives you what items. My MM2 methods are so set in stone that I just sort of let the game happen beneath them, without care for rhyme or reason.

Eirikr
06-27-2008, 01:57 PM
You mean as opposed to using Item 2?

It's never occurred to me to use that there. I never have it by that point.

http://old-wizard.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/air.png

These dudes. There's are a few pixels on the top of their heads on the far side of each horn where Mega Man can stand. Doing this allows you to avoid waiting for a clear path, but unless you've played through the game a hundred times like me, you probably won't care about the ways to lower your completion time by a few seconds.

alexb
06-27-2008, 01:58 PM
Traditional starting point is Toad Man, who can be killed effortlessly. Ring Man is considered one of the harder bosses.

All these years, I've been... Doing It Wrong...

TheSL
06-27-2008, 02:09 PM
Wait until the MM4 thread, where I reveal that I put Ring Man in the front of my boss order and can usually beat him without sustaining damage.

My problem with Ring Man wasn't so much the boss as it was his bitch-hard stage with all those hippos and retracting floors.

Ethan
06-27-2008, 02:29 PM
Well, of course not. You get Item #2 by beating Air Man.

Ah, so you do. I don't know who gives you what items. My MM2 methods are so set in stone that I just sort of let the game happen beneath them, without care for rhyme or reason.

Sven
06-27-2008, 02:39 PM
If you're awesome enough, you can win that battle with a shot or two of C left.

Are you awesome enough, The Banjoman?

Or just do the smart thing and burn a life there, then come back and POOF! No more walls. Which leaves you more than enough bombs for Flash Man or Quick Man (admittedly, I usually save 'em for Quick Man in the Wily stage).

But the first time around against Flash Man is too much fun to NOT beat him with ample use of the Crash Bombs. He just... stands there and takes it.

Tavir
06-27-2008, 02:50 PM
Didn't Nintendo Power list Ring Man as the ideal starting point?

Nintendo Power also once listed every single robot master's weakness as the Mega Buster once (for one of the games...MM5, I think). As close to the source as it is, I've sometimes questioned Nintendo Power's reliability.

Knight
06-27-2008, 02:56 PM
Edit: Maybe my problem is I feel like I have to play the whole game with only the arm cannon. Having to resort to anything else feels like copping out. Am I doing it wrong?
I always just used the arm cannon for stages, and boss weapons were only used on bosses. I think it was mostly a fear of running out or getting low on the the weapon I needed. It wasn't until the internet that I learned how obscenely powerful the metal blade is. It was still a little hard to get myself into the habit of using it, and even then, I usually ended up sticking with the arm cannon just so I wouldn't have to pause the game and swap back to the arm cannon when a metal blade deflected off an enemy.

Niku
06-27-2008, 03:01 PM
My last great MM2 accomplishment was beating all eight robot masters with only the arm cannon on US Hard mode, three energy tanks allotted, in under four minutes. This was for a Pyoko speed-run competition thingie. It .. it got ugly.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=O57E2OQ9 (FCE Ultra movie)

Eirikr
06-27-2008, 03:04 PM
My last great MM2 accomplishment was beating all eight robot masters with only the arm cannon on US Hard mode, three energy tanks allotted, in under four minutes. This was for a Pyoko speed-run competition thingie. It .. it got ugly.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=O57E2OQ9 (FCE Ultra movie)

Oh, I did that at this year's MAGfest. On my first try, with no energy tanks.

Now I don't have to pat myself on the back for another week or so.

alexb
06-27-2008, 03:12 PM
Well, that was breezy. I think I spent as much time reading the thread about Mega Man 2 as I did playing it.

Alastor
06-27-2008, 03:37 PM
I've been playing this game for two days straight, and I've decided that the reason I can't enjoy it is because I don't have years of experience with it, and therefore haven't memorized it's nuances and intricacies like you guys have. The game is just filled with trial-and-error situations (How the hell was I supposed to know that those spikers on Bubbleman's stage cause insta-death? And why do his attacks blend in with the background? And why does passing through screens drop me directly onto one of those shelled crabs?) and scenarios that I absolutely don't see who could survive them on their first time through them. "Caught ya!" moments, as I like to call them. I'm sure once I've gone through enough game over screens I'll be able to finish it through rote memorization, but that's never been a fun way to play a game.

I know, I know. This sounds like I'm shitting all over one of everyone's most beloved games, but as a first-time player, I really want to see the "magic" of it all. There's just this wall there preventing me from getting any enjoyment out of it. I'm no stranger to hard games, but for the sake of my sanity I can't invest any time in a game that punishes my every wrong move with death.

shivam
06-27-2008, 03:45 PM
uh, spikes as autokill is a tradition as old as time.

Tomm Guycot
06-27-2008, 03:48 PM
Alastor - games used to be portals into pocket universes where playing meant discovering the rules of that universe as much as it did getting through it.

Megaman had so many unique action/platformer ideas at the time that there was a lot to discover... not just spikes and disappearing blocks but also weapons and weaknesses. This is one reason we love it so much. It's not like there aren't tons of extra lives to supplement the "trial and error" nature of old games. That's just how they were. It's a lot more fun than games that tell you waht's going to happen before it happens.

(This also might be why we reacted so poorly when it became clear Megaman was stagnating and each new entry was the same game w/ the same weapons as the others - nothing new to discover)

Alastor
06-27-2008, 03:52 PM
Fair enough. I'll give 'er another shot.

MCBanjoMike
06-27-2008, 04:11 PM
Nintendo Power also once listed every single robot master's weakness as the Mega Buster once (for one of the games...MM5, I think). As close to the source as it is, I've sometimes questioned Nintendo Power's reliability.

Having just last night beaten the 8 Robot Master stages in Mega Man V, that's actually pretty much true. They're all total pushovers and I only once found it advantageous to use another weapon over the Mega Buster. Maybe I took the absolute worst path through the game, but otherwise it seems like MB is the way to go pretty much all the time. (Same thing for Proto Man's castle, too - can't comment on Wily's just yet.)

Sven
06-27-2008, 04:39 PM
Question for the floor: is it possible to get trapped in Wily's castle? Because beating it this time, I was handicapped by the keyboard (inability to jump and fire the Quick Boomerangs smoothly) and almost ran out of ammo while taking down his ship. If you lose that way... you're pretty much screwed, right?

Loki
06-27-2008, 05:13 PM
Just played through and beat it for the first time in... oh... five years? And I'm amazed at how much my HANDS remember this game as opposed to my brain. Coming up on tricky sections (Quick Man's lasers, those icy blocks to the energy tank in Flash Man's stage) I wondered at my ability to get past them but then my hands just took over and I flew past them without any conscience thought.

I also do this with Mario 3/World.

Another thing: When Anniversary Collection came out I was less than pleased with the cover. So I made my own! It's kinda crappy but feel free to download and print and be a looser like me.

Here. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/Loki213/Megaman.jpg)

Ruik
06-27-2008, 05:46 PM
Wow, I just played through this yesterday. Then I come on here and its a Fun Club!

Bubble > Fire > Metal > Wood > Air > Crash > Flash > Quick

I've gotten significantly worse at this game than when I was a kid. I remember Airman being a cake walk with the P, but he was brutal to me this run. I'm pretty sure I've killed each boss with just the P at some point over the many times I've played this, but I had to abuse weapon weaknesses on everyone but Bubble and Metal this time. Hell, Quickman nearly destroyed me even after using Flash on him. At least I can still block-jump Heatman's stage and non-Flash Quickman's.

Also, those huge canine enemies in Woodman's stage were a huge pain. I think I died more to them than any single boss. (Well, I might have fallen off the blocks more during the Wily 1 boss.)

How the hell do you kill the Wily 4 boss with less than the full Crash gouge? I guess you can place one between the top left node and the wall just below him to take the both out with the explosion... I can't think of any other ways really.

Tomm Guycot
06-27-2008, 05:46 PM
Ready to have your mind blown?

You're not... but you'll look anyway...


http://old-wizard.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/air.png

See that round thing under its eyes? Not its mouth.

its mouth is the horizontal line on the lower section.

You've been wrong for years.

Mr. Sensible
06-27-2008, 05:52 PM
Another thing: When Anniversary Collection came out I was less than pleased with the cover. So I made my own! It's kinda crappy but feel free to download and print and be a looser like me.

Here. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/Loki213/Megaman.jpg)

Awesome. Now I can stop looking at this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515H5PYVSRL._SS400_.jpg

...ugh.

See that round thing under its eyes? Not its mouth.

its mouth is the horizontal line on the lower section.

You've been wrong for years.

That's like one of those vase/faces optical illusions, except this one makes me vaguely uncomfortable.

Parish
06-27-2008, 06:01 PM
Ready to have your mind blown?

You're not... but you'll look anyway...




See that round thing under its eyes? Not its mouth.

its mouth is the horizontal line on the lower section.

You've been wrong for years.

I thought everyone knew that?

Tomm Guycot
06-27-2008, 06:02 PM
I thought everyone knew that?

Nobody I've ever known.

It's physically painful for me to see it the correct way.

mopinks
06-27-2008, 06:04 PM
wait, people think that nose is a mouth?

that blows my mind, man.

nunix
06-27-2008, 06:28 PM
Wh

I

....

BLASPHEMERS! HERETICS! Your filthy revisionist nose/mouth twisting shall be punished with fire. And blaster shots.

shivam
06-27-2008, 06:40 PM
even after you've told me, i still can't see how the nose was ever a mouth.

Parish
06-27-2008, 06:42 PM
even after you've told me, i still can't see how the nose was ever a mouth.

Easy mistake to make if you think it's, say, an octopus rather than an oni:

http://www.creativeworlds.net/Artwork/Takosuke.png

SilentSnake
06-27-2008, 06:47 PM
Now I feel bad. I had to start at it for one whole minute and cover the circle for me to see it the proper way. All other TT > Me :(

shivam
06-27-2008, 06:49 PM
oh wow. thanks, parish. now all i can see is that octopus. with horns.

Eirikr
06-27-2008, 08:38 PM
See that round thing under its eyes? Not its mouth.

its mouth is the horizontal line on the lower section.

You've been wrong for years.

I need to see some official art as proof. Then I'll be a believer.

mike
06-27-2008, 08:44 PM
Now I feel bad. I had to start at it for one whole minute and cover the circle for me to see it the proper way. All other TT > Me :(

No, you're in good company. Even knowing the oni face is there now, I still can't unsee the octopus face once I stop concentrating on it. Now you'll have to excuse me while I go revise the doodles in the margins of my third grade math homework.

Tomm Guycot
06-27-2008, 08:45 PM
I need to see some official art as proof. Then I'll be a believer.

The mini guys are all the official art you need.

Eirikr
06-27-2008, 08:46 PM
The mini guys are all the official art you need.

Yeah, but their mouths look just like the "nose" of the big one and they are in near identical positions in relation to their ears. Art. Gimme. Or, if someone can tell me this guy's name*, I'll scour myself.

*Edit: They are called Air Tikkis, or Goblins in Japan.

mopinks
06-27-2008, 08:56 PM
but if that nose is his mouth, what's the meaning of the long flat line??

I JUST CAN'T SEE IT

Ilchymis
06-27-2008, 09:21 PM
It's uncouth to go for Quick Man first? I didn't know I was such a blasphemer, but I absolutely love those quick boomerangs. I guess it always was a bit of a huge pain in the ass in the beginning, though.

Such a good game. I love The Advantage's covers as well.

Daremo
06-27-2008, 09:50 PM
I am not at all ashamed to admit that the soundtrack from this game is on my computer and I listen to it and enjoy it frequently. This is one of my favorite games of all time!

Eirikr
06-27-2008, 09:52 PM
I am not at all ashamed to admit that the soundtrack from this game is on my computer and I listen to it and enjoy it frequently. This is one of my favorite games of all time!

It's okay to come out of the game music-liking closet! It's 2008 and the kids at school aren't going to make fun of you anymore for not listening to Nirvana.

Zef
06-27-2008, 10:02 PM
See that round thing under its eyes? Not its mouth.

its mouth is the horizontal line on the lower section.

You've been wrong for years.

OH MY GOOOOOOD http://www.the-weaving.com/images/temp/emot-gonk.gif

...no! NOO! That's not TRUEEE! That's imPOSSIBLE!

oh wow. thanks, parish. now all i can see is that octopus. with horns.

And with a pair of panties on its head?

...aaaaaanyway. I love Atomic Fire: not only can it one-shot Wood Man as soon as you drop into his room, it can do the same to the Dragon if you charge it up while it chases you. Are there any other bosses that job to a fully-charged blast as easily?

Zithuan
06-27-2008, 10:03 PM
I am not at all ashamed to admit that the soundtrack from this game is on my computer and I listen to it and enjoy it frequently. This is one of my favorite games of all time!

I have 6 of the 8 stage musics, the boss battle music, and Wily stage 1 as my ringtones.
Anyone who wants to know which 2 I don't have has to guess. :P

PapillonReel
06-27-2008, 10:05 PM
...aaaaaanyway. I love Atomic Fire: not only can it one-shot Wood Man as soon as you drop into his room, it can do the same to the Dragon if you charge it up while it chases you. Are there any other bosses that job to a fully-charged blast as easily?

You can use it against the Guts Tank as well, actually (though it takes two hits to finish him instead of one). Maybe it can damage some of the robot masters as well? My memory's failing me on this one.

Sven
06-27-2008, 10:29 PM
Anyone who wants to know which 2 I don't have has to guess. :P

Heat Man and Metal Man would be my guesses. At the least, they're the two I immediately ruled out when looking for a Mega Man 2 track of my own for a ringtone.

cartman414
06-28-2008, 12:02 AM
...aaaaaanyway. I love Atomic Fire: not only can it one-shot Wood Man as soon as you drop into his room, it can do the same to the Dragon if you charge it up while it chases you. Are there any other bosses that job to a fully-charged blast as easily?

I'm a little conflicted there. It's powerful stuff, but not the most fun way to win a battle.

Sanagi
06-28-2008, 12:52 AM
I did a "backwards" run of the game today. Heat Man's block hopping was the hard part, as expected, though only because I had to learn it as if it were the first time. With practice it wouldn't be that bad. Otherwise, Wood Man and Crash Man are probably the hardest parts of the game if you don't have a good weapon to counter them(or lots of energy tanks).

Tomm Guycot
06-28-2008, 01:28 AM
Yeah, but their mouths look just like the "nose" of the big one and they are in near identical positions in relation to their ears. Art. Gimme. Or, if someone can tell me this guy's name*, I'll scour myself.

*Edit: They are called Air Tikkis, or Goblins in Japan.

No they don't. Their mouths are at the bottom of their face. Look at the one in the screenshot coming out the big one's ear. See his "line" mouth? Same position. Now look at the circle mouthed ones--NOT in the "nose" area.

Sorry guys, remember I was one of you once. I can't even see it "the correct way" without giving myself a headache. But that doesn't change the truth.

Merus
06-28-2008, 03:58 AM
Well, my Wii crapped out on me, so I guess I won't be playing Mega Man 2 after all.

Everyone told me to turn off WiiConnect24, but did I listen? Nooooooooo.

Makkara
06-28-2008, 04:22 AM
No they don't. Their mouths are at the bottom of their face. Look at the one in the screenshot coming out the big one's ear. See his "line" mouth? Same position. Now look at the circle mouthed ones--NOT in the "nose" area.

The line mouth is perfectly level with the bottom of the "ears" in the small ones. Exactly like the true, oval mouth of the big ones. The difference between them is that the big ones have an extra growth at the bottom. It's not a mouth. You are wrong.

estragon
06-28-2008, 06:30 AM
See that round thing under its eyes? Not its mouth.

its mouth is the horizontal line on the lower section.

You've been wrong for years.

Ahhhh. Now I can't see it the old way anymore and it's horrible.

Niku
06-28-2008, 07:54 AM
Guys, guys, guys.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z284/Nikumatic/smb.jpg

The clouds and the bushes are the exact same sprite.

reibeatall
06-28-2008, 07:57 AM
STOP RUINING MY CHILDHOOD

Willm
06-28-2008, 09:16 AM
*head explodes*

Zef
06-28-2008, 09:31 AM
Remember the guy who did an 11-minute speedrun of Super Mario Bros 3, by means of creative use of save-states and pixel-perfect platforming? I remembered I have his speedrun of MM2 on AVI, and I finally found it on streaming form:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/48976.html

(YouTube doesn't seem to have it.)

Like all speedruns, it's always hypnotic to see someone run through with such game-breaking precision, but it feels like it sucks the fun out of the game to play it like that. The fun is in playing more like a real human being, stopping to deal with each enemy and hesitating before the harder challenges. Morimoto leaving behind all those 1ups and E-Tanks is heart-breaking.

shivam
06-28-2008, 09:51 AM
wow. you're absolutely right. that speed run really does suck the fun out of it. the levels all feel super short, and super clinical.

Eirikr
06-28-2008, 10:10 AM
No they don't. Their mouths are at the bottom of their face. Look at the one in the screenshot coming out the big one's ear. See his "line" mouth? Same position. Now look at the circle mouthed ones--NOT in the "nose" area.

Sorry guys, remember I was one of you once. I can't even see it "the correct way" without giving myself a headache. But that doesn't change the truth.

GOD DAMMIT TOMM I LOVE YOU BUT...

Give me a damn piece of art instead of just telling me I'm wrong. I searched and found nothing. I believe nothing until I see it.

Knight
06-28-2008, 10:22 AM
Guys, guys, guys.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z284/Nikumatic/smb.jpg

The clouds and the bushes are the exact same sprite.
Also, the flower part of the fire flowers are just sideways coins.

Eirikr
06-28-2008, 10:38 AM
http://asise.fileave.com/tikkigremlin.PNG

While the two of them are clearly similar in design, the smaller ones clearly do not have the wide part at the bottom that is supposedly the mouth of the larger.

Also, the mouth of the smaller one matches up with parallel with its ears in the same manner that the larger one's mystery orifice matches parallel with its ears.

Not saying this proves or disproves anything, but...

shivam
06-28-2008, 10:43 AM
oh god. this speed run reminded me that my most favorite non wily track ever was Wood Man. that song is SO GOOD>

Zef
06-28-2008, 10:53 AM
oh god. this speed run reminded me that my most favorite non wily track ever was Wood Man. that song is SO GOOD>

Yeah, listening to all of them in sequence like that, I'm hard-pressed to find an absolute, non-castle, favorite. While the clear winner is Wily Stage 1, Quick Man and Bubble Man are just as amazing as Flash Man, and Metal Man and Air Man (my "least" favorite according to memory) have some really nice segments.

Who worked on the NES games, Alph Lyra? The style is completely different from the X series and Street Fighter (except for Cammy's stage, which sounds like it should belong in MM3 or 4.)

Eirikr
06-28-2008, 10:57 AM
Who worked on the NES games, Alph Lyra? The style is completely different from the X series and Street Fighter (except for Cammy's stage, which sounds like it should belong in MM3 or 4.)

From VGMdb (http://vgmdb.net/db/albums.php?id=255):

Composition: Ogeretsu Kun, Manami Ietel (Manami Matsumae), Yuukichan's Papa (Yoshihiro Sakaguchi)

Apparently no one knows who Ogeretsu Kun is, and Manami is a member of Alph Lyra.

alexb
06-28-2008, 11:13 AM
Hey, the text after battles in this speed run is different than the stuff in my copy of the game... Also the color for the Timefreeze power is different.

Eirikr
06-28-2008, 11:18 AM
Hey, the text after battles in this speed run is different than the stuff in my copy of the game... Also the color for the Timefreeze power is different.

Looks like they are playing a translated version of the Japanese version. Guh, that hurts me.

Tomm Guycot
06-28-2008, 01:13 PM
eirikr you beautiful, man! You've saved me... you've saved us all!

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w238/nakazatoDS/megaman2jap.jpg

Look in the upper left corner. There's no way the lower section is a mouth!

shivam
06-28-2008, 01:15 PM
actually, this picture, more than any, makes the lower portion look like a very prominant gutsman style jaw, almost like a sesame street muppet.

Tomm Guycot
06-28-2008, 01:17 PM
actually, this picture, more than any, makes the lower portion look like a very prominant gutsman style jaw, almost like a sesame street muppet.

Oh God whhhhyyyyyyy!?

Mr. Sensible
06-28-2008, 01:22 PM
actually, this picture, more than any, makes the lower portion look like a very prominant gutsman style jaw, almost like a sesame street muppet.

So anyway, what the hell is that robot even supposed to be? The head of a Shinto thunder god or something?

shivam
06-28-2008, 01:23 PM
just your standard oni.

Parish
06-28-2008, 01:34 PM
"Standard"? Don't see too many floating robot head oni around ancient Japan, m'boy. Trust me, I've looked.

But yeah, the lower portion is totally a Guts Man underbite.

Alastor
06-28-2008, 01:39 PM
Air, Bubble, Heat, Crash, Wood, Metal, Flash. Wut wut.

Quick Man's stage is leaving me a broken man.

Makkara
06-28-2008, 01:40 PM
actually, this picture, more than any, makes the lower portion look like a very prominant gutsman style jaw, almost like a sesame street muppet.

That would only work if the whole growth was the lower jaw. That goes against the theory of the horizontal line being the mouth, which would require most of the growth to constitute upper lip. I might believe it if it looked like this:

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/2082/tikkixy9.gif

Edit: as opposed to this:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4321/tikki2em2.gif

PapillonReel
06-28-2008, 01:43 PM
Man, I don't even know what to believe anymore.

Knight
06-28-2008, 01:49 PM
Look at the mouth/nose thing too, it's got to be an octopus thing. If it was a nose, it would be a really freaky nose, more like a snout with one nostril.

shivam
06-28-2008, 02:02 PM
you guys are crazy. there is no way of looking at that and imagining that the lower portion is anything BUT a mouth. it follows the face and jawline symmetry perfectly. The nose, especially. The red bump in the middle is the septum that splits the nostrils.

or are you trying to tell me that this thing has ears that hang lower than it's mouth?
And how do you explain such a giant hairdo, forehead, ears, horns, and eyes, coupled with a 'mouth' that small? Especially when the 'mouth' is sitting in the middle of the face? And in this scenario, what could the actual mouth possibly be?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bf/Oni_netsuke_front.jpg/523px-Oni_netsuke_front.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z225/hoogteziekte/oni-1.jpg
http://www.preetamrai.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/DSC00744.jpg

Loki
06-28-2008, 02:10 PM
Neck fat. Parish! Kill this character limit!

Makkara
06-28-2008, 02:13 PM
or are you trying to tell me that this thing has ears that hang lower than it's mouth?

Look in a mirror. You'll find that, unless you tuck in your chin a bit, your mouth is perfectly level with your ear lobes. Just like the Air Tikki.

Thinaran
06-28-2008, 02:29 PM
What oni have only one big nostril? It's a mouth, dammit!

Knight
06-28-2008, 02:30 PM
you guys are crazy. there is no way of looking at that and imagining that the lower portion is anything BUT a mouth. it follows the face and jawline symmetry perfectly. The nose, especially. The red bump in the middle is the septum that splits the nostrils.

or are you trying to tell me that this thing has ears that hang lower than it's mouth?
And how do you explain such a giant hairdo, forehead, ears, horns, and eyes, coupled with a 'mouth' that small? Especially when the 'mouth' is sitting in the middle of the face? And in this scenario, what could the actual mouth possibly be?
The mouth could be an octopus mouth. The ears are the typical Mega Man robot ears, look at the pic Tomm posted, they seem to be placed at about that height for some robot master, Bubble Man's the easiest to see. The hair? It's really camouflage, they're in the clouds after all. Eyes and forehead, cartoony japanese octopuses look like that too. Horns though? I dunno, game design choice I guess, make it more interesting than just a floating platform with flying things coming out of it.

Mr. Sensible
06-28-2008, 02:36 PM
This thread just got awesomely retarded.

Thinaran
06-28-2008, 02:42 PM
Blame Calo... no, Tomm. Again.

Eirikr
06-28-2008, 02:51 PM
Does anyone here have a copy of the Rockman Perfect Works book? I'm sure there's a piece of concept art in there that will solve this mystery once and for all.

Pawelmaji
06-28-2008, 02:56 PM
That "oni" looks weird, I can't imagine how it would look in another perspective.

I really like MM2's ending music start off kind of solemn, then then *BAM* the credits roll with some theme song.

Zithuan
06-28-2008, 03:05 PM
http://www.themechanicalmaniacs.com/gallery/albums/npower/Enemy-53.jpg (http://www.themechanicalmaniacs.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=19&pos=0)

Nintendo Power thought it was a mouth, not that that means anything.

I don't want it to be a mouth, but it's getting harder to not see it that way. :(

Eirikr
06-28-2008, 03:06 PM
Well, I think that's pretty definitive. A lot of the old Nintendo Power art was from Japanese publications and/or straight from the source.

At least, I think it's definitive. I still think the mouth is way too wide to be a mouth.

Makkara
06-28-2008, 03:13 PM
Well, I think that's pretty definitive.

No, it's almost certainly based on (a flawed interpretation of) the pixel art.

shivam
06-28-2008, 03:20 PM
Hair. Horns. a fat wide red face. Big round buddhist-robot ears. And it's floating in the sky, for amaterasu's sake! what else could it be but an oni?

Look at the masks i posted. they're all the same as that giant floating head.

Tavir
06-28-2008, 03:24 PM
I really like MM2's ending music start off kind of solemn, then then *BAM* the credits roll with some theme song.

Not just any theme song, the theme song. As great as the theme from MM3 was, I've always considered this the definitive, action-movie, kick-ass Mega Man theme song. I love that it is reprised in MM4 and I wish it had been used more often.

And I don't know, that Nintendo Power image looks kinda sketchy, like someone from NP itself drew it. The missing tooth, especially, suggests that it's not an official piece of art. The picture of the Rock Man 2 Perfect Works seems to really suggest that that thing on the bottom is just some kind of stump thing. And more importantly, c'mon guys! This is like the first time I can remember that Tomm has admitted he was wrong! YOU GUYS ARE RUINING IT

Sanagi
06-28-2008, 03:24 PM
I always thought the line was the mouth, even before I knew what an oni was.

Also: It's way harder to beat Air Man with the Leaf Shield than with the normal gun.

Also also: Quickman's stage is the same whether you use Time Stopper or not - it's just a matter of whether you need a net to catch you if you screw up.

pence
06-28-2008, 03:29 PM
Guys, I have never played Mega Man except in his Genesis Wily Wars incarnations (I played a lot of Mega Man 3 this way). I've dabbled in some emulated nonsense before, but this fun club has convinced me to drive to a game store and buy a used copy of Anniversary Collection. I'm gonna start with Mega Man 2 on easy, and this is a good time so far -- I've killed everyone but Quick Man, and got almost to the end of Heat Man's stage without using Item 2 before saying 'screw this' and flying across the bottomless pit. At least I can make it to the 1up pretty consistantly.

Additionally, Air Man's stage seemed easy for me, and Bubble Man's stage was inordinately difficult (Dammit, I keep hitting these depth charges... oh, I can jump higher underwater. Wait, why are crabs riding down a waterfall?) Is this normal?

Ample Vigour
06-28-2008, 03:50 PM
How I love Talking Time.

Eirikr
06-28-2008, 03:54 PM
Okay, let's review the evidence we have on the Air Tikki so we can get this done and put to rest.

Shivam's right, it's definitely supposed to be an oni. This is pretty obvious. But of course, it's a Rockman design, so it has to look robotic. And this may sound even more heretical than what started all this but: I think this is a (kinda) bad design, technically.

This may be a case where the design intended may have been too much for the intended hardware. I think Makkuro's edits hit on what I mean here: the in-game sprite just lacks enough chin to make the mouth look really definitive.


Additionally, Air Man's stage seemed easy for me, and Bubble Man's stage was inordinately difficult (Dammit, I keep hitting these depth charges... oh, I can jump higher underwater. Wait, why are crabs riding down a waterfall?) Is this normal?

Mega Man games are difficult, but forgiving. They only seem easy once you've played them a dozen times. The NES games are probably different enough from the Wily Wars that it's a new challenge in adjustment.

Alex
06-28-2008, 04:06 PM
Additionally, Air Man's stage seemed easy for me, and Bubble Man's stage was inordinately difficult (Dammit, I keep hitting these depth charges... oh, I can jump higher underwater. Wait, why are crabs riding down a waterfall?) Is this normal?

Easy mode on the MMAC is kind of broken, a lot of enemies are outright removed from the levels.

Willm
06-28-2008, 04:07 PM
I just beat MM2 again on "normal" in the Anniversary Collection, and it seemed much more difficult than I remember. In general, it seems like the enemies take only half as much damage (I remember Wood Man going down with a single charged flame shot, but now it takes two.) Is the normal mode harder than the original NES version?

Eirikr
06-28-2008, 04:09 PM
How many hear have been playing the games on the Anniversary Collection? I just beat MM2 again on "normal" and it seemed much more difficult than I remember. In general, it seems like the enemies take only half as much damage (I remember Wood Man going down with a single charged flame shot, but now it takes two.)

Normal in the AC is the "difficult" of the original cart.

Willm
06-28-2008, 04:12 PM
Ah, okay. I guess my memories are from normal difficulty. I really didn't remember Wily being that much harder. Well, at least I beat it. Now to Mega Man 3! Yay!

Odin
06-28-2008, 04:19 PM
Additionally, Air Man's stage seemed easy for me, and Bubble Man's stage was inordinately difficult (Dammit, I keep hitting these depth charges... oh, I can jump higher underwater. Wait, why are crabs riding down a waterfall?) Is this normal?

Yeah the original games are INSANELY hard until you know them inside and out. Welcome to all the fun (and sometimes "fun" - Yellow Devil, I'm looking at you!) NES owners had back in the day!

pence
06-28-2008, 05:11 PM
Easy mode on the MMAC is kind of broken, a lot of enemies are outright removed from the levels.

After reading this, I figured I'd take the training wheels off and switch to normal. I'm still using the turbo fire button, though, because I'm not a purist/masochist. Air Man's stage is now much harder due to the fact that it's full of egg-bombing birds. And Air Man himself has forced me to search youtube for a strategy, because those damn tornados are all kinds of broken -- I can't dodge them if they're at eye level.

Guys, this Mega Man 2 game is pretty good, just thought you should know.

juanfrugalj
06-28-2008, 10:40 PM
MM2 warmed my heart because you don't need to know the boss weaknesses to fight them effectively. It's not trial and error, it is trial and surprise. Plus, there's always like 3 wrong weapons which work swimmingly too. Can anyone enlighten me if there are other MM games which have the same philosophy? And are there MM games without the charge shot besides the early ones before they introduced it?

Most MM3 bosses are usually weak to more than one weapon. Hell, half of them are weak to their own.

estragon
06-29-2008, 02:08 AM
That "Okkusenman" has kind of forever ruined MM2 for me. It's all I can hear now.

I actually like that I hear Okkusenman during the game now, but I have mixed feelings about hearing (and singing along with) the lyrics to this adorable monstrosity (http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=LdzjVnH9YoY) during Crashman's stage. I kept bursting into spontaneous laugher. I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

Metal -> Wood -> Air -> Crash -> Flash -> Quick -> Bubble -> Heat

No, I don't care if it's suboptimal. It is right.

This is, indeed, the correct order.

But what about this is suboptimal?

If using the Metal Blade is wrong, I don't want to be right.

For real. The biggest "flaw" in this game is that the Metal Blade just rocks too goddamn hard. But it's too fun not to use.

Also, a random observations after beating the game: I really like how relatively free of enemies Dr. Wily's castle is in this game. It really feels like you're assaulting a mad scientist's lair, full of weird traps and obstacles rather than a robot army. The brief cave dripping with weird purple goo before the last fight is also totally sweet. It's a great example of skillfully shaping andn atmosphere in an 8-bit game.

EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention that I noticed on this playthrough: The opening cinema in this game may very well be the best in all of gaming. The way pressing starts ends the thing by putting his helmet on and zaps you off to Fight! for Everlasting Peace! is just so freaking sweet.

Brickroad
06-29-2008, 02:28 AM
Played this twice through today. I racked my brain trying to figure out how to kill the Wall Cannons with two shots of C left; could only manage to end it with one. Maybe I just dreamed having two shots?

90% of the game is just muscle memory for me at this point, which I learned on the NES. Whenever I play the MMAC version the Dragon inevitably kills me because I'm so used to having a few seconds of lag after he shoots his fireballs, and "fixing" that throws my timing off and throws me in the hole. GOOD TIMES!

Tavir
06-29-2008, 03:47 AM
But what about this is suboptimal?

In terms of using the best weapon against each robot master, the most optimal order is Metal, Bubble, Heat, Wood, Air, Crash, Flash, Quick. What's neat about MM2 though is that a lot of the weapons have varying degrees of effectiveness on bosses (as opposed to many of the later games, in which only one weapon worked well and the others either did just as much damage as the regular cannon or just bounced off), so even a less-than-perfectly optimal order can be pretty much just as good as optimal.

Ruik
06-29-2008, 03:50 AM
Normal in the AC is the "difficult" of the original cart.

Wow, this explains a lot. I feel much better about the many continues I used this last play through.

That "Okkusenman" has kind of forever ruined MM2 for me. It's all I can hear now.

I'd only seen that video twice, but it instantly came to mind as soon as I started up the stage.


EDIT: Airman Will Not Die is probably the best video ever; even better than the FOE video.

Balrog
06-29-2008, 09:50 AM
I can't see it as anything but a mouth, it's a mouth.

Red Hedgehog
06-29-2008, 10:03 AM
Man, all this mouth or no mouth talk. Regardless of whether I thought the think in the middle of the face was a nose or mouth, I always thought that black line and circular part underneath were supposed to be showing perspective - that we were seeing a bit of the bottom of the oni.

Sven
06-29-2008, 11:38 AM
But what about this is suboptimal?


You can't pick up a 1up and energy tank (well, without dying in the latter case) on Metal Man's stage unless you do Air Man's stage first. Since Metal Man's best handled with the arm cannon anyway (and Air Man is the Iron Mike Sharpe of the Mega Man universe), it's safe to slide him to second in the order and pick up the extra energy tank.

Mazian
06-29-2008, 11:47 AM
For kicks, I played a game where I acquired the weapons in the order they appear on the subscreen, HAWBQFMC.

Thoughts: (1) Heat Man's stage really bites without Item-2 (and without having played it that way for years), but at least doing it first means you're not losing any E-Tanks when you hit Continue again... and again. (2) The stage where I most wanted the Metal Blade was Wood Man's - those monkeys that swing up from below really demand a weapon that fires down. (3) Having a wide arsenal in Metal Man's stage doesn't offer much benefit. The cannon remains the best weapon for almost everything. (4) In conclusion, this order is Doing It Wrong.

Sven
06-29-2008, 11:59 AM
Having a wide arsenal in Metal Man's stage doesn't offer much benefit. The cannon remains the best weapon for almost everything.

In retrospect, that might be a clue that Metal Man is the "intended" first stage - if you do Air Man first, you have to deal with those flocks of little birds with just the arm cannon, which can be tricky (as well as the robots riding the cloud platforms).

And I love how the game's basically a bunch of gameplay 101 life lessons - EG, in Bubble Man's stage, you learn very quickly to look before you leap, especially on that final section with the waterfalls where no one playing it for the first time can avoid an I Wanna Be The Guy-esque "okay, I was dumb for not seeing that coming" death at the hands of the crabs.

Eirikr
06-29-2008, 12:04 PM
Played this twice through today. I racked my brain trying to figure out how to kill the Wall Cannons with two shots of C left; could only manage to end it with one. Maybe I just dreamed having two shots?


This got me thinking.

http://asise.fileave.com/orbroom.PNG

You have 7 shots of Crash Bombs. There are 5 orbs to destroy. You would have to destroy the wall in the lower right corner however, damn. The only time you can actually save a bomb is by hitting both the far right wall and the upper right orb at the same time with a well placed Crash Bomb right between them.

juanfrugalj
06-29-2008, 12:06 PM
http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/4/6/29/f_orbroomm_b5e40d7.png (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/6/29/f_orbroomm_b5e40d7.png&srv=img26)

Loki
06-29-2008, 12:08 PM
It will still require 6 shots.

Eirikr
06-29-2008, 12:08 PM
The bomb placement on the right doesn't save you anything, though. You can avoid destroying the upper one by jumping around and using Item-3 to get out.

juanfrugalj
06-29-2008, 12:11 PM
Oh, I never use item 3.

Then again, I couldn't use Crash Bombs on the Robot Masters to save my life, so I never save them. I just like breaking two things with one shot. Also, I misread your first post! So, yeah, six shots is the best I can do.

Eirikr
06-29-2008, 12:15 PM
Oh, I never use item 3.

Then again, I couldn't use Crash Bombs on the Robot Masters to save my life, so I never save them. I just like breaking two things with one shot. Also, I misread your first post! So, yeah, six shots is the best I can do.

Nonetheless, I'm going to try your placement out the next time I play. Be interesting to avoid using Item-3.

nunix
06-29-2008, 12:27 PM
I find it interesting how some groups will stick to "item 1" and such, and others will say "use the spring/sled/I forget the other one". Someone research this!

pence
06-29-2008, 01:23 PM
Keeping in mind that I have never played mm2 before, here are my thoughts on Wily's castle so far:

Dragon -- Oh, I've seen this guy in screenshots/videos before, I just run, dodge fireballs and hold down the turbo button.

Moving walls -- Ok, this looks like a Dr. Mario level... oh I get it, kill these things, alright. Ow, fuck, how was I supposed to know it would pop up there, I'm gong to move to the other side... ow, fuck! *turns off console, watches videos of someone doing the fight, memorizes the order as MMMLRMMRLMLRML, completes it on the first try the next day*

Big tank -- I bet I shoot his ugly face. Yep.

Wall cannons -- *Tries every single weapon on them after using his last Crash on the first one.* FUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOOUUUUUUUUU.

Brickroad
06-29-2008, 01:48 PM
http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/4/6/29/f_orbroomm_b5e40d7.png (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/6/29/f_orbroomm_b5e40d7.png&srv=img26)

Yeah, this is the placement I've been using for years, giving me an extra shot of C to use against, say, Quick Man in the boss gauntlet.

I have very vivid memories of winning the fight with two shots left.

I think my crazy brain just might be crazy.

Egarwaen
06-29-2008, 01:52 PM
The Wall Cannons level keeps owning me. Specifically, the corridor leading up to them. I can get through most of the rest of it okay, with a combination of using Item-2 to avoid the trick floors and using the leaf shield to ride the moving platforms... But fighting Sniper Joes when I can't jump their shots is very difficult.

PapillonReel
06-29-2008, 01:53 PM
I have very vivid memories of winning the fight with two shots left.

I think my crazy brain just might be crazy.

Maybe you had to start the battle over for whatever reason and recharged your gauge before the fight? It could be that, since walls stay destroyed and all.

alexb
06-29-2008, 02:44 PM
Hey, are there any melodies from Mega Man 2 hidden in that Airman Will Not Die song besides the Heatman theme and the level clear theme?

Tomm Guycot
06-29-2008, 02:49 PM
Yeah, this is the placement I've been using for years, giving me an extra shot of C to use against, say, Quick Man in the boss gauntlet..

Why would you do that? A single Crash Bomb will take out Wily's ship.

Octopus Prime
06-29-2008, 02:51 PM
Next time I play through this, I think I might beat the bosses in alphabetical order.

Air
Bubble
Crash
Flash
Heat
Metal
Quick
Wood

This has the advantage of still getting me Item-2 before Heatman, Time Stopper before Quickman and Metal Blades before Woodman, but the disadvantage of not getting Metal Blades until near the end.

Brickroad
06-29-2008, 03:13 PM
Maybe you had to start the battle over for whatever reason and recharged your gauge before the fight? It could be that, since walls stay destroyed and all.

This implies that I died and had to continue. Are you saying I suck? That I don't have MAD SKILLZ? We will have words, sir.

MCBanjoMike
06-29-2008, 10:13 PM
oh god. this speed run reminded me that my most favorite non wily track ever was Wood Man. that song is SO GOOD>

High five! Maybe I was sorta wrong about our divergent musical tastes.

Rice Cooka
06-30-2008, 07:23 AM
oh god. this speed run reminded me that my most favorite non wily track ever was Wood Man. that song is SO GOOD>

The drum intro is what elevates the track to godly level in my book. I still like the bubbleman theme better though.

Brickroad
06-30-2008, 10:50 AM
Why would you do that? A single Crash Bomb will take out Wily's ship.

Because Quick Man is harder than Wily's ship.

Seriously, I think Quick Man might be the single hardest robot master of all time. Even the weapon he's weakest against only brings him to 50% health, and his movements are almost completely random. He's even worse in MM3 where the most damaging weapons you have are excrutiatingly difficult to connect with.

Willm
06-30-2008, 11:30 AM
Because Quick Man is harder than Wily's ship.

Seriously, I think Quick Man might be the single hardest robot master of all time. Even the weapon he's weakest against only brings him to 50% health, and his movements are almost completely random. He's even worse in MM3 where the most damaging weapons you have are excrutiatingly difficult to connect with.


For some weird reason, I don't have nearly as much of a problem with Quick Man as most people do. Once I use the time stopper in MM2 to knock him down to 50% health, I'm usually able to finish him without too much trouble. And in MM3, sure, it's hard to hit him directly with the Gemini Laser, but I always get lucky with it when it bounces around the room, as they always seem to hit him eventually.

You know what's sad though? For the longest time in my youth I had problems with the "Living Room" boss fight in Wily's Castle, and I could just barely get by. Then one day I came to the astonishing revelation that I could fire the Metal Blade upward.

Eirikr
06-30-2008, 11:57 AM
Because Quick Man is harder than Wily's ship.

Seriously, I think Quick Man might be the single hardest robot master of all time. Even the weapon he's weakest against only brings him to 50% health, and his movements are almost completely random. He's even worse in MM3 where the most damaging weapons you have are excrutiatingly difficult to connect with.

Oh come on, Quick Man isn't hard. A lot of the time he starts running into the wall, allowing you some easy shots. You're right that the MM3 version is a pain in the ass.

Try Dynamo Man in Rockman and Forte.

Brickroad
06-30-2008, 12:00 PM
Oh come on, Quick Man isn't hard. A lot of the time he starts running into the wall, allowing you some easy shots.

Well, I don't think any boss in any Mega man game is really that hard. I mean it's not like I haven't killed Quick Man a couple thousand times over the course of my life. I'm just sayin' that compared to the rest of the MM2/3 bosses, and even other robot masters in the series, he's the hardest.

And when you can get him to run into the wall? That's when you detonate a Crash Bomb over him for an easy win.

Try Dynamo Man in Rockman and Forte.

"Annoying" is not the same as "hard". Also that game completely sucks and I'd just prefer to pretend it doesn't really exist, if that's all the same to you.

Eirikr
06-30-2008, 01:57 PM
Well, I don't think any boss in any Mega man game is really that hard. I mean it's not like I haven't killed Quick Man a couple thousand times over the course of my life.



[Setting: the blacktop. 5th grade. Timmy the loudmouth kid and some other kids are playing soccer. Timmy shoots for the goal, but misses.]

Kid A: Ha, you suck Timmy!

Timmy: Oh yeah, well, it's because I play soccer after school in a league. I'm not used to this small blacktop. Every day in league I score like a million goals.

;)


"Annoying" is not the same as "hard". Also that game completely sucks and I'd just prefer to pretend it doesn't really exist, if that's all the same to you.

Aw, don't dismiss it that easily. Rockman and Forte is good (not great) as long as you play as Bass.

Brickroad
06-30-2008, 02:01 PM
Kid A: Ha, you suck Timmy!


Also, Timmy's a fag!

...wait. Wait, am I Timmy? I'm Timmy aren't I? CURSE YOU EIRIKR!

Aw, don't dismiss it that easily. Rockman and Forte is good (not great) as long as you play as Bass.

When I said it "completely sucked" I was referring to playing as Bass. As Mega Man it's even worse, bordering on unplayable.

Tomm Guycot
06-30-2008, 02:16 PM
Aw, don't dismiss it that easily. Rockman and Forte is good (not great) as long as you play as Bass.

Brain... hurt...

Ethan
06-30-2008, 02:48 PM
Why would you do that? A single Crash Bomb will take out Wily's ship.

Wait, what?

Parish
06-30-2008, 03:14 PM
Brain... hurt...

Nani? What are you griping about, silly baka? ^______________^

Eirikr
06-30-2008, 03:16 PM
Brain... hurt...

Rockman and Forte the unreleased SFC game as opposed to Mega Man and Bass, the inferior GBA port.

Tomm Guycot
06-30-2008, 03:20 PM
Rockman and Forte the unreleased SFC game as opposed to Mega Man and Bass, the inferior GBA port.

And guess who the F-ing main characters of Rockman and Forte are!!!

HINT: One of them is not Megaman.




(edit: if you thought this post was too harsh, the original version is reproduced below

How to become a worthless otaku in one easy step:
1) fucking kill yourself.)


(edit2: Okay not really, but I thought that one up after hitting "Post" and just had to write it out.)

Eirikr
06-30-2008, 03:26 PM
And guess who the F-ing main characters of Rockman and Forte are!!!

HINT: One of them is not Megaman.

The main characters in R&F (JP SFC) as we know them are Mega Man and Bass. In game, they are called Rockman and Forte. I prefer calling the characters by their English names.

I call that particular game Rockman and Forte, because I own the SFC cart and have played it to death. I was referring to the game title, not the characters.

Tomm Guycot
06-30-2008, 03:29 PM
The main characters in R&F (JP SFC) as we know them are Mega Man and Bass. In game, they are called Rockman and Forte. I prefer calling the characters by their English names.

That's step 0. Guess what step 1 is.

Brickroad
06-30-2008, 03:29 PM
None of this changes the fact that the game is terrible.

Eirikr
06-30-2008, 03:33 PM
That's step 0. Guess what step 1 is.

Not calling the game Mega Man and Bass.

Thinaran
06-30-2008, 03:39 PM
And then killing yourself for Doing It Wrong?

Makkara
06-30-2008, 03:40 PM
That's step 0. Guess what step 1 is.

I don't know, but I bet it comes right after freaking out about people using English names for Japanese video game characters.

Parish
06-30-2008, 04:11 PM
Wow, thanks for derailing this thread with frothing pedantry, everyone. Nice work.

Eirikr
06-30-2008, 04:21 PM
Wow, thanks for derailing this thread with frothing pedantry, everyone. Nice work.

WHEN OPINIONS AND SEMANTICS CLASH ON THE INTERNET: XXXVIIIbillion

If it was on Fox, I'd watch it.

So yeah, Mega Man 2 is my favorite game of all time. We have a short home movie clip of me as a kid playing it. I was on Bubble Man's stage.

Tomm Guycot
06-30-2008, 05:03 PM
I can't even be overly snarky on purpose like Sharkey :(

Is there no place for me on the internet?

Jeanie
06-30-2008, 05:08 PM
I can't even be overly snarky on purpose like Sharkey :(

Is there no place for me on the internet?

And you wonder why people think you're angry all the time? Hard not to give that impression when Step One is to "fucking kill yourself ".

Tomm Guycot
06-30-2008, 05:10 PM
And you wonder why people think you're angry all the time? Hard not to give that impression when Step One is to "fucking kill yourself ".

Did you look at that entire post? it was pretty obviously facetious.

Maybe step 1 should have been "fucking read the post"

shivam
06-30-2008, 05:14 PM
it wasn't obvious, no.

but that's not the point. the point is, IT'S A NOSE.

Parish
06-30-2008, 06:11 PM
In other news, I hate you all. And your mom, too.

Red Hedgehog
06-30-2008, 06:42 PM
In other news, I hate you all. And your mom, too.

Pfft, that's not news.

Well maybe hating our moms is.

juanfrugalj
06-30-2008, 09:12 PM
In other news, I hate you all. And your mom, too.

Yeah, the Mega Man 2 thread was meant for great things and we blew it.

Ample Vigour
06-30-2008, 09:45 PM
In other news, I hate you all. And your mom, too.

My mom will kick your scrawny Texan ass clear out of California, dattebayo!

BELIEVE IT >:-[

I've never beaten the Quick Man stage without using the time freeze. I feel like less than a man. :(

MCBanjoMike
06-30-2008, 10:11 PM
I've never beaten the Quick Man stage without using the time freeze. I feel like less than a man. :(

Well...you are.

And Rockman and Forte was a decent game, folks. I thought it was fun to play as B...Forte, since he had a bunch of abilities that you never get with Mega Man. Like shooting at an angle! I'd pay good money for a proper North American release of the game - but I won't pay bad money for the GBA port. Emulation ho!

(Yes, I realize that last phrase is somewhat open to interpretation.)

Sanagi
07-01-2008, 05:36 AM
You can progress gradually toward beating Quick Man's stage without Time Stopper. Just wait a little longer to use it each time you play the level. The way you get through the level is the same either way, it's just a matter of practice.

Egarwaen
07-01-2008, 10:37 AM
You can progress gradually toward beating Quick Man's stage without Time Stopper. Just wait a little longer to use it each time you play the level. The way you get through the level is the same either way, it's just a matter of practice.

The pattern's also not too hard to learn. IIRC, there's only two screens where there's anything tricky at all.

Sven
07-01-2008, 11:12 AM
It's not necessarily the pattern, it's setting up the next screen with your exit from the prior one. Oftentimes, you'll have to delay things a little bit to be in the proper position to clear the next screen.

http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/nes/file/mega_man_2_quickman_force_2.png

Personally, I think the first screen is the toughest - you have to resist the impulse to hug the left wall of the shaft you're falling down, so that you land on the platform, then IMMEDIATELY jump over the little raised section. That takes some getting used to since it goes against your instincts to not try to get as far to the left as possible while falling.

Other big tip is to remember that you travel a bit faster making short hops than running. That comes in handy, especially on the last screen.

Pawelmaji
07-01-2008, 02:25 PM
Has anyone here made it to the final boss by not hugging the right wall as you plummet down in the beginning of the stage?

Kishi
07-01-2008, 02:29 PM
Why would you want to hug the right wall? Doesn't that just screw up the screen-centering so you can barely see what's ahead of you?

Brickroad
07-01-2008, 02:30 PM
If you hug the right wall and do not stop running you will be ahead of all the acid drops.

Makkara
07-01-2008, 02:35 PM
I usually just, you know, watch the drips and pass between them. I remember dying the first time I reached that level, (I was playing with my brother, and the atmosphere freaked us out something fierce) but I learned quickly.