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View Full Version : I'm going to see Hellboy 2 tonight


reibeatall
07-10-2008, 08:47 AM
So I will make this topic be the Hellboy 2 topic.

I will make a prediction: Better than the first movie, but it won't be as good as The Dark Knight.

Anybody else going to see it this weekend?

sraymonds
07-10-2008, 08:49 AM
I'll be seeing it this weekend, and I share the same prediction as you.

And I wish Lobster Johnson was in this movie.

Ethan
07-10-2008, 09:03 AM
I predict: better than the first one, sloppier but more compelling and endearing than Dark Knight, being alone in my opinions.

Report back.

For reference, what are your thoughts on the first Hellboy?

reibeatall
07-10-2008, 09:11 AM
I liked the first Hellboy, but everything that involved Liz pissed me off. She wasn't fleshed out enough, and they practically ignored her, but then she's like a main character.

No, I haven't read Hellboy or BPRD, so this is all just my thoughts from the movie.

sraymonds
07-10-2008, 09:22 AM
I thought the first Hellboy was a fun popcorn movie. Basically I turned off my brain and enjoyed the ride. Liz was too mopey for me, and there wasn't enough Abe Sapien.

This all comes from a guy that didn't mind John Myers.

Matchstick
07-10-2008, 10:22 AM
I'd concur with sraymonds. More Abe Sapien is a good thing. I didn't realize until I read some things here that anybody cared one way or another about John Myers. I believe that it will be a solid movie, but not as good as The Dark Knight.

Kolbe
07-10-2008, 10:42 AM
I've already seen it and it was funny, but I was not impressed, to be honest. The story is pretty much by the numbers and I never felt enough character developement to actually care about them. They have some good moments, but it was like knowing someone for the first time at a party, have a nice time, but not actually giving a damn of what will happen to them after the bash is over. And the parts where they're supposed to be developed didn't feel natural for me, except maybe, the beer part.

Some of the scenes and action sequences were a bit to arbitrary for my taste. Specially that skull person with eyed-wings. Cool on the eyes, but forced storywise.

Bottomline is that it is a good, fun movie. Pure entertainment. And that's ok.

Brickroad
07-10-2008, 10:44 AM
I probably won't see it. I only see movies about killer plants now.

Octopus Prime
07-10-2008, 10:44 AM
Focusing too much on Liz and not enough on Abe was probably the worst part of the first one.

And no amount of Lobster Johnson is enough.

Sven
07-10-2008, 11:22 AM
I've got very lowered expectations, because while I was impressed the first movie turned out as well as it did, it didn't strike me as anything special.

I still say this should've been pushed back into September, as it's going to be absolutely killed dead at the box office between Hancock still being out there and people who don't go to movies that often waiting on Dark Knight.

SamuelMarston
07-10-2008, 11:25 AM
You guys, I am a member of not one, but TWO Doug Jones fan clubs. One of these clubs calls a certain Mr. Marston president.

Seriously, Doug Jones is my favorite actor.

DANoWAR
07-10-2008, 11:34 AM
I probably won't see it. I only see movies about killer plants now.

http://cec.wustl.edu/~naw1/nh/hallucinations/audrey%20ii.jpg

reibeatall
07-11-2008, 12:39 AM
I probably won't see it. I only see movies about killer plants now.

You should be happy to know that there is a killer plant.


Yeah, my prediction was pretty good. I liked it well enough, more than the first.

Figure Four
07-11-2008, 01:59 AM
I'll be seeing this some time next week and I can't wait. WALL-E, Hellboy 2, and The Dark Knight all within a few weeks of each other? What God did I please?

Savathun
07-11-2008, 02:13 AM
I liked the first one except for the generic villains and that Meyers chump. At the end where he's the one shouting "Remember who you are!" to Hellboy, it just rings so incredibly false.

With those characters out of the way, I'm hopeful.

sraymonds
07-11-2008, 06:15 AM
I liked the first one except for the generic villains and that Meyers chump. At the end where he's the one shouting "Remember who you are!" to Hellboy, it just rings so incredibly false.

With those characters out of the way, I'm hopeful.

Why are you doing this, Brandon? REMEMBER WHO YOU ARE!

Loki
07-11-2008, 04:21 PM
http://www.chrisroberson.net/uploaded_images/bprd-742062.jpg

nunix
07-11-2008, 04:34 PM
Hellboy II can't seem to decide if it wants to be a movie, a tv show, or a comic; lots of weird cuts and pacing. The splitscreen during the market, for instance, and the timestamps in the beginning (which were there for who the hell knows what reason, and then disregarded at some point).

Also: considering the ending, I still feel like I got punked, or something, some kinda grand prank.

The DIRTY, FILTHY ELVESSESES died, though, so bonus points there, even if the manner was telegraphed wayyyyyyy in advance.

Effects and costumes and such were good, though. Wish there'd been more with the Angel, maybe he'll wind up in III.

I dunno if I'd recommend it. I'd swear it was by another writer/director team except.. it's not, so who knows what's going on. It's definitely not what I was looking for going in, but I haven't decided if I like it on its own merits or not despite that.

mr_bungle700
07-11-2008, 04:49 PM
http://www.chrisroberson.net/uploaded_images/bprd-742062.jpg

There aren't enough exclamation points to describe my reaction to this.

Savathun
07-11-2008, 04:57 PM
Why are you doing this, Brandon? REMEMBER WHO YOU ARE!

It would mean something coming from you! It would mean everything!

Paul le Fou
07-11-2008, 06:35 PM
Does "won't be as good as The Dark Knight" really need to be stipulated as part of a prediction? For this or any other movie? I'm kind of assuming that nothing will be as good as the Dark Knight at this point.

Sarcasmorator
07-12-2008, 01:21 AM
I liked it, but it has some issues, especially on first viewing. I think some of the problems might not be an issue on a second watch, but there's really no dramatic tension of any kind because you know how the story is going to end before it starts. As soon as Broom is finished with his bedtime story you know the prince will activate the Golden Army, be challenged and defeated; as soon as Nuada's link with his sister is introduced you know she's going to kill herself to stop him. Everything else is for color, which wouldn't be aproblem if the film didn't give the game away so early. As it is, the only surprises are visual.

Also, why didn't they keep the same guy who did the score for the first one? Danny Elfman is a great composer under the right conditions, but he seemed to be phoning this one in, and the music didn't have the same personality as it did in the first. I particularly missed the title theme.

That said, I think I'll get to like it more. I didn't like Hellboy all that much the first time I saw it, but I like it a lot now.

marcalan
07-12-2008, 11:31 AM
I saw it last night and this is one of the best comic book movies I've ever seen.

Yes, I knew where the plot was going pretty quickly. But I frankly didn't give a damn. Hellboy 2 entertained me. It had great action, funny lines and scenes delivered very well and a story that wasn't a mess.

Now that this is done, Del Torro can finish up the Hobbit movies and get on to his Frankenstein project with Doug Jones.

Ethan
07-12-2008, 03:33 PM
Saw it earlier today and my thought is basically
FUCKING AWESOME!

...with very slight reservations. There was a brief spot near the end that brushed just a little bit too close to the sluggish, detached "boss fight" at the end of Hellboy 1. But I thought the movie pretty much got everything right. Better performances than last time, subtler and more character-rich writing, incredible visuals, exciting action, tight pacing, charm out the ass (this is what I think Dark Knight will completely lack), great ending... I was really happy with it.

My favorite parts were Hellboy and Abe singing about girls and getting obliterated on Tecate Light (one of the funniest product placement choices ever) and the aftermath of the death of the plant god thing.

I want to see it again.

nunix
07-12-2008, 09:05 PM
Also: the James Lipton interviews are fucking hilarious. I wish they'd done a whole episode of IAC, I'd watch it.

O..O~
07-12-2008, 09:39 PM
Meh. Didn't really do anything for me. Still much prefer the comics to the movies but every single creature design in the movie was brilliant. I still can't get over just how cool Johann looked.

There two plot holes that really irritated me though
1.Why did they keep going towards the prince after the angel got rid of hellboy's wound? I thought that was the whole reason they were going.
2. The goblins made the entire army indestrucible but no the fucking thing that controlled it? When liz just melted it I laughed, just couldn't believe how stupid it was.

Badinage
07-12-2008, 09:55 PM
This movie housed the most touching duet in cinema history. ;)

...Okay, maybe not THE most. But you don't get more campy than having two supernatural creatures singing Barry Manilow while drunk.

O..O~
07-12-2008, 09:59 PM
Oh also, did anyone else think the make up on the kid at the start looking fucking awful?

Chu
07-12-2008, 10:41 PM
Oh also, did anyone else think the make up on the kid at the start looking fucking awful?

For me, it wasn't so much the make up as the way he moved. He seemed... jittery, I guess?

For plot hole #1: I think they were motivated to go in order to help the princess out. Unfortunately, they didn't know Abe was going to bring the third crown piece.

#2: Yeah, that was pretty lame.

But all in all I really enjoyed watching the movie. Predictable, slightly flawed, but a whole lot of fun.

Badinage
07-12-2008, 11:02 PM
But all in all I really enjoyed watching the movie. Predictable, slightly flawed, but a whole lot of fun.

I agree. The movie wasn't anything groundbreaking, but very enjoyable. Guillermo Del Toro is, in my opinion, a great choice to bring Mignola's comic to life.

spineshark
07-13-2008, 01:31 AM
I just got back, and I really liked it. My older brother did too, and he hasn't seen the first one yet. It was certainly lacking in some ways-a lot of Abe's stuff felt a little forced, and I thought Liz was handled pretty poorly as well. There's not really much development from her side, just a sort of "lol girls" thing. The script just takes for granted that she's supposed to do what she does and doesn't try to get deeper. On the other hand, I'm glad overall that the movie doesn't get bogged down in the same angst that really drags a lot of the genre's titles. Krauss I actually liked, which kind of surprised me, but his predominant use as a comic relief character (I haven't read the comics, so I don't know anything about him in that) really worked for me.

I remember when the first trailer came out, a guy whose blog I read commented that it made the movie look more like a typical summer blockbuster than the original film. I put these thoughts mostly out of my mind, but I think he was somewhat right. Overall I'd have to say the plot was kind of disappointing, since it didn't carry (it seemed more like it was barely trying, really) the thematic weight of the first one, and the ending was way too telegraphed. But I didn't come for the plot, and I'm glad it didn't weigh the movie down like the intolerable later installments of Pirates. It's pretty lightweight fun, and considering how hard even that is to find sometimes, I'm more than satisfied with it.

reibeatall
07-13-2008, 07:18 AM
I didn't like the way Abe looked. He was really plasticy.

juanfrugalj
07-13-2008, 09:47 AM
... your hero drinks Tecate. I wouldn't drink that stuff with a gun to my head, but still... nice touch.

AND

... your mystical market with monsters and the like features a shop selling stolen rims.*








Overall, I had a blast. The final battle could've used some fire attacks and amphibious acrobatics, but I was satisfied otherwise.



* Thaddeus J. Frugalski Jay does not know if this is unique to his culture, but he likes to think it is. Makes him feel special.

sraymonds
07-13-2008, 10:03 AM
I thought the movie was decent. The puppet story at the beginning was very awesome though.

nunix
07-13-2008, 10:39 AM
The puppet story at the beginning was very awesome though.

I'd been thinking that if they released some wooden toys styled like that, I might buy a couple.

spineshark
07-13-2008, 01:59 PM
2. The Death Star's main reactor vents to a tiny port on the surface?
I think it makes sense since they pretty much established that the crown wasn't indestructible when they broke it into pieces.

And it was ray-shielded, after all.

juanfrugalj
07-13-2008, 02:12 PM
Meh. Didn't really do anything for me. Still much prefer the comics to the movies but every single creature design in the movie was brilliant. I still can't get over just how cool Johann looked.

There two plot holes that really irritated me though
1.Motivations!
2. Unindustriable!

1. There was still the thing about the kidnapped princess. There are other characters besides Hellboy, man.

2. The army itself wasn't indestructible, as we are shown the minute they appear on screen. As for the crown, what spineshark said.

Oh also, did anyone else think the make up on the kid at the start looking fucking awful?

It looked unnerving, which is probably what they wanted.

Patrick
07-13-2008, 05:12 PM
I thought it was such a mixed bag, for every really good thing there was something that was just a little off. For those of you who haven't read the book, this was basically a loose reinterpretation of the characters in a whole new story. Krauss wasn't ever in the books, although Mignola had mentioned that he'd always wanted to work a character made of protoplasm into the story. Jeffrey Tambor is totally new too, and the books never spent too much time inside the BPRD headquarters. The main characters are all slight variations on Mignola's version (Hellboy hates Guns! Abe can take a punch, and give one too!). I felt like some of the characters were totally Mignola creations (Wink, and the legless guy near the end), and some were totally DelToro creations (the angel, the elves). The whole movie never felt at all cohesive, it was like it was straining to contain all of the ideas and action. I enjoyed a lot of it though, and I'll probably buy in on Bluray, just because it was so damn beautiful.

ringworm
07-13-2008, 05:41 PM
Very rarely am I happy that I never got into something that other people have told me is awesome, Hellboy seems to be one of those cases. I liked the first movie and loved this second one, and I have to believe a big reason why is that I don't have the source material to compare it to.

As is usually the case with this sort of thing, now I can get into the source material without knowledge of it having tainted the adaptation.

juanfrugalj
07-13-2008, 05:57 PM
I thought it was such a mixed bag, for every really good thing there was something that was just a little off. For those of you who haven't read the book, this was basically a loose reinterpretation of the characters in a whole new story. Krauss wasn't ever in the books, although Mignola had mentioned that he'd always wanted to work a character made of protoplasm into the story. Jeffrey Tambor is totally new too, and the books never spent too much time inside the BPRD headquarters. The main characters are all slight variations on Mignola's version (Hellboy hates Guns! Abe can take a punch, and give one too!). I felt like some of the characters were totally Mignola creations (Wink, and the legless guy near the end), and some were totally DelToro creations (the angel, the elves). The whole movie never felt at all cohesive, it was like it was straining to contain all of the ideas and action. I enjoyed a lot of it though, and I'll probably buy in on Bluray, just because it was so damn beautiful.

Now, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Krauss was in the books. Something about a sťance-gone-wrong, if I remember correctly. I thought Jeffrey Tambor was the guy who placed a bomb inside the body of Roger the Humunculus as a safety measure, prompting Hellboy to quit, as referenced in the ending. Truthfully, the only variation I have disliked so far was the wussification of Abe.

Also, Wink was designed by Del Toro.

Ethan
07-13-2008, 06:10 PM
Mignola/Del Toro design clash
I had a different take on this. I love the Hellboy books I've read (1-3), but I think the source of this movie's strength is that it's very much Del Toro's movie this time, with less connection to the books or to Mignola (though he does have a story credit). A Del Toro movie wants to be a feast for the eyes, while the whole appeal of Mignola art is how much you don't see; the styles are so different that they seem to work best with entirely different storytelling techniques. There are some characters (Rasputin, Ilsa) and mood elements (Hellboy's brainy introspection, the general sense of loneliness and hopelessness) that Del Toro couldn't really capture the first time out. This movie was much more liberal in its transformation of those problem bits into things that fit Del Toro's cinematic language, and the movie was better for it. In one phrase, I'd say this movie was more confident in being itself.

I like both Abes. They're different, but they're both good. The same can be said about all the characters.

sraymonds
07-13-2008, 06:18 PM
Man, why are humans such ungrateful jerks?

juanfrugalj
07-13-2008, 06:35 PM
Man, why are humans so cute?

I don't know. Ask Spider-Man, Batman, the Hulk, and the X-Men. I'm sure you'll get some wonderful stories. If you asked me, mankind deserved to have its ass handed to them by the Golden Army.

sraymonds
07-13-2008, 06:42 PM
I don't know. Ask Spider-Man, Batman, the Hulk, and the X-Men. I'm sure you'll get some wonderful stories. If you asked me, jellybeans!.

Whenever that sort of scenario pops up, I always think the heroes should just let the humans fend for themselves until they come crawling back for help, just for the heroes to turn them away. I'm a jerk like that.

Ethan
07-13-2008, 06:43 PM
In a thread that makes extensive use of the fake spoiler tag, we apply the tag to unrelated text for the purposes of satire.

sraymonds
07-13-2008, 06:57 PM
I haven't seen anything in this thread that wasn't related to Hellboy.

juanfrugalj
07-13-2008, 07:47 PM
Whenever that sort of scenario pops up, I always think James Van Der Beek is such a hottie! I'm a jerk like that.

I think that's going to be an important element for the sequel.

Add to Queue's VsRobot
07-13-2008, 08:00 PM
On the subject of the lack of deeper themes in Hellboy II:

I thought it was very melancholy and poignant. Hellboy kills creatures like the Forest Elemental, creatures whose only malice is that they want a world where there are green spaces for them to live in, free from human interference and hatred.

Later in the film, the Prince tells Hellboy: "We will be extinct, and the world will be poorer for it." And he's right.

The Elf King wants to honor the treaty, but it's clear that humans have long since stopped honoring their end of the bargain, which was leaving the forests alone.


I loved the film.

O..O~
07-13-2008, 08:49 PM
2. Spoiler stuff


But they were indestructible. Remember? All the ones that hellboy and johann took down put themselves back together. Also, being in different pieces is such a nitpicky way of saying its not indestructible. They still could of made each piece indestructible. It was just poor writing. And for number 1, who gives a shit about the kidnapped princess? They knew if he killed her that he would die so they didn't really need to worry.

juanfrugalj
07-13-2008, 09:15 PM
Wow. You're being silly.

The metal thing: The robots could put themselves back; the crown couldn't. I don't see how that's a difficult thing to grasp.

The girl thing: He never threatened to kill her, just take her away from them. Which is a bad thing, because she had been shown as a love interest for Abe. Seems like a good reason to fight the bad guy. The fact that you don't care about the characters -though I did- doesn't make it a plot hole.

Patrick
07-13-2008, 09:43 PM
Now, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Krauss was in the books. Something about a sťance-gone-wrong, if I remember correctly. I thought Jeffrey Tambor was the guy who placed a cherry pie inside the oven as a safety measure, prompting Hellboy to dance with glee, as referenced in the ending. Truthfully, the only variation I have disliked so far was the wussification of Abe.

Also, Wink was designed by Del Toro.

There was a guy that was killed in a sťance in one of the short stories, but he was nothing like Krauss. Jeffrey Tambor's character might have been based on one of the minor characters, but I don't think there was ever anyone like his movie character in the books. I'll have to go back to re-read the series, then I'll be able to make a better argument for how I feel they're different.

I don't really know which of them designed what, but Wink reminded me of characters form the comic (notably the gorilla with a mechanical hand, and some of the demon designs), while other characters reminded me a lot of Del Toro's stuff.

I had a different take on this. I love the Hellboy books I've read (1-3), but I think the source of this movie's strength is that it's very much Del Toro's movie this time, with less connection to the books or to Mignola (though he does have a story credit). A Del Toro movie wants to be a feast for the eyes, while the whole appeal of Mignola art is how much you don't see; the styles are so different that they seem to work best with entirely different storytelling techniques. There are some characters (Rasputin, Ilsa) and mood elements (Hellboy's brainy introspection, the general sense of loneliness and hopelessness) that Del Toro couldn't really capture the first time out. This movie was much more liberal in its transformation of those problem bits into things that fit Del Toro's cinematic language, and the movie was better for it. In one phrase, I'd say this movie was more confident in being itself.

I like both Abes. They're different, but they're both good. The same can be said about all the characters.

I love Del Toro, and I love Mignola. They're both great artists, but the have very different styles and they clashed a lot in HBII. That's all I was getting at, I didn't mean to say that I disliked either style.

I do think it's a shame that Mignola is spending so much time working on the movie and not making more books, when it ends up being Del Toro's show in the end. Mignola is bringing in a guest artist for the next Hellboy book instead of drawing it himself, which is a great loss IMO. I just hate to see his unique style get lost in the mix.

sraymonds
07-14-2008, 04:38 AM
There was a guy that was killed in a sťance in one of the short stories, but he was nothing like Krauss.
The movie Johann is just a reinterpretation of comic Johann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Krauss), but it's still Johann.

Patrick
07-14-2008, 08:49 AM
The movie Johann is just a reinterpretation of comic Johann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Krauss), but it's still Johann.

Oh, wow, I've never read the BPRD books. My bad. I hadn't even really considered those.

Egarwaen
07-14-2008, 09:59 AM
Wow. You're being silly.

The metal thing: The robots could put themselves back; the crown couldn't. I don't see how that's a difficult thing to grasp.

The girl thing: He never threatened to kill her, just take her away from them. Which is a bad thing, because she had been shown as a love interest for Abe. Seems like a good reason to fight the bad guy. The fact that you don't care about the characters -though I did- doesn't make it a plot hole.

Right, but...

(The best thing for the characters to do once Hellboy was healed was for Liz to just melt their crown segment right then and there. This would've placed nancy-boy elf prince in an unwinnable situation. Short of fatally injuring himself, he can't prevent his sister from leaving him - if he hurts her too badly, the heroes just scoop both of them up, lock him in a padded, elf-proof room and give her medical treatment. If he attacks Hellboy again, he gets the same treatment. His only choice is to retreat. I could see Abe missing this if he was distraught over elf-princess' plight, but he seemed pretty cool and collected overall.)

sraymonds
07-14-2008, 10:01 AM
Right, but...TETSUOOOOOOO

But no one knew that Abe had brought the crown piece with him.

Sven
07-14-2008, 10:02 AM
The best thing for the characters to do once Hellboy was healed was for Liz to just melt their crown segment right then and there.

That seemed to be the reaction of everyone I saw it with.

Good movie overall (I think I liked the first one a bit more, but it'll take a rewatch to make certain), and a good warmup for the main event later this week.

Egarwaen
07-14-2008, 12:37 PM
But no one knew that the killer was in the house all along

Right, but (Abe should have realized that there was no reason for him to return the last piece once Hellboy was healed. The princess was in no danger, and if Liz melted the last piece of the crown, the princess would've been saved. Returning the crown piece inevitably doomed her. Abe was smart and together enough to realize this. Why didn't he?)

Ethan
07-14-2008, 12:43 PM
He was in love, remember? He was on some love-retarded shit. Not together at all.

sraymonds
07-14-2008, 12:45 PM
Right, but (every rose has its thorns. Just like every night has it's dawn. Just like every cowboy sings a sad, sad song)

Good point. I'll just go with the notion that Abe just wasn't thinking straight and love muddled his mind.

Egarwaen
07-14-2008, 02:16 PM
Which I could have believed if he'd actually displayed any other signs of it in his actions, but he was pretty together overall.

Stiv
07-14-2008, 10:39 PM
Hellboy doesn't make the comic book verbalizations while fighting anymore, which upsets me, but the movie loses the incredibly bullshitty "framing device" character that I hated so much from the first Hellboy. I'm going to say that it's a mixed bag but it's a GLORIOUSLY mixed bag and I had a lot of fun watching it. It's not del Toro's greatest film by a long shot but the dude absolutely knows what to do with practical effects and how to shoot an action scene, but I wish that the movie had done a little more with the whole theme about how Hellboy is, of course, different. It's almost too brisk, which is weird for a two-hour movie.

The foreshadowing was a little much, but the joy of movies like this one isn't the conclusion (which is forgone from the first frame, BAD GUY IS DEFEATED BY GOOD GUY) but how it goes from A to B. I loved the setup with young Hellboy but I was hoping for a Gene Autrey shoutout.

Anyway the movie was good!

juanfrugalj
07-15-2008, 07:17 PM
Well, half of you are ignoring the spoilery safety measures, so what the hell:

I still say they needed to confront the guy. After losing the Golden Army, the prince wouldn't have raised his arms and gone "You kids! Have my sister/object of my lust back!". He would've kept the girl and forced his incestuous desires* on her. Besides, saving the girl through a technicality isn't the most honorable thing to do anyway.


* Yes, it is hinted throughout the movie.

Evil Dead Junkie
07-17-2008, 01:54 AM
Christ I loved that movie.

Del Toro has an imagination that's completely his own.

He's in my top ten of all time that's for sure.

Ethan
07-17-2008, 07:17 AM
[incest theorem]

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