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tungwene
08-22-2008, 08:09 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/Tungwene/valeria01.gif

The only feminine aspect of Valeria's full body art is her breastplate are shaped like boobies.

Brickroad
08-23-2008, 01:18 AM
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So you guys are all hot and bothered for some nice, juicy violence. Okay, I can dig that. Which means it's time for...

The Liberation Army vs. Teo "○∆□☆'s Dad" McDohl

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Teo does NOT mess around; dude brought his army straight up to Kaku in order to have a go at me.

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Yeah? Well ○∆□☆ is going to teach you not to pick on poor, defenseless ninjas!

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I feel bad sending the young lad off on such a dangerous mission, but he knew what he was getting into when he signed up.

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Armored Cavalry, eh? That sounds... powerful. And also very much like a Charge attack. Magic > Charge, so let's send Luc out.

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AAARGHBLARRGGLE!

Okay, that didn't work, and a bunch of my guys got slaughtered. Krin, what you got?

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Again? Well I guess if I had an unbeatable super-move I'd just spam it over and over too. Magic doesn't work, so this time we'll send Lepant out to Charge at it. Hopefully we can at least stalemate.

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OH GOD THE PAIN.

This sucks. Now they outnumber us about 2:1 in addition to their superior combat ability. How about we build a wall out of our dead and hope for the best?

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Oh, well, good. At least it's not Armored Cavalry again. Luc's already spent, but surely Jeane's unit is up to the task!

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OW OW OW OW OW TEO'S CHARGE IS JUST ARMORED CAVALRY AGAIN.

Brickroad
08-23-2008, 01:22 AM
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A damn sensible idea, Mathiu. Man, this is twice now an Imperial General has made fools out of us on the field. What the hell kind of edge do we need this time?

A quick aside: it is possible for members of your army to permenantly die during these combat scenes, although you have to royally screw up for it to happen. It won't happen during battles you're supposed to lose (like this one), and it's not just a random toss; you really have to suffer a heavy-ass blow to see it. Some characters, of course, have plot immunity; you'll never see Lepant or Viktor fall in battle for instance. In my experience, as long as you stay on top of your recruiting and play the battles at least half-intelligently, it's nothing you'll ever have to worry about. There's a FAQ out there somewhere that lists all the people who can die and what their last words are, presumably because it's so hard to actually kill them. Dead Stars of Destiny have their name greyed out on the stone slab, and they no longer count towards your total. So if, say, Eileen gets killed you can kiss your endgame bonus* good-bye.

*It's chips and salsa.

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Apparently Teo's Armored Cavalry use dragon horses instead of regular horses. And fun fact: we don't see dragon horses again until Suikoden 5, where they play an important part in the plot! (Three of them are Stars of Destiny, even!)

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Though the entire Liberation Army failed to repel Teo's attack, Pahn believes he can hold them back single-handedly.

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Alright, tough guy, I won't try to talk you out of it. Do I get your stereo if you die?

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I think Pahn means "en garde" here, which I guess just means "on guard" so maybe he's just trying to cut out the middleman. Or try not to sound French. What I'm getting at is, I think this is a translation mistake rather than a stylistic decision.

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The thing to understand about these one-on-one fights is, even though everything is boiled down to a yellow health bar, your stats still matter. That's why I sharpened Pahn's weapon and leveled him up and decked him out in the finest armor; you're supposed to lose this fight, and anyone who hasn't taken the time to train Pahn up is certainly going to come off it with a feeling of hopelessness. If Pahn loses, Teo beheads him and his name is stricken from your stone slab (this also has the side effect of leaving ○∆□☆'s unit in major battles empty for the rest of the game). However, it's possible to win, but only if you show Pahn a little love.

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The sad truth is Teo is a motherfucker. Defending is still the best way to win, but it effectively means we trade blows; his "blocked" attacks deal about as much damage as Pahn's counterattacks. Which means you have to tip the scales against him by picking Attack when you know he's going to Defend. This is nickle-and-dime damage, maybe 8-10 per hit, but unless you seriously want to powerlevel Pahn it's your only trump card.

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I played the fight almost perfectly, and you can still see how close I cut it. Actually, this time around Pahn is a few levels shy of where I usually like him; after Scarleticia I tend to run him through Soniere a few times waiting for the Opal to drop. Since I didn't have to partake of that particular chore laps around the prison would have just been naked grinding and we all know how much I hate that.

Bottom line: Pahn can beat Teo, but it sure as hell ain't easy.

Brickroad
08-23-2008, 01:25 AM
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Win or lose, Pahn finds himself in the same situation: Teo's manservants want to cut off his head. The difference is that, if he wins, he's garnered Teo's respect and Teo lets him live.

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Pahn, of course, is kind of dense and Teo's generosity is lost on him. Ah well, at least he makes it back in time for dinner.

Teo's mercy in this scene is a great example of how the "villains" in Suikoden typically aren't. Outside of Windy (and, okay, Kraze) nobody is really a bad guy per se. There are better examples than Teo in the series (and even in the first game in particular), but it helps paint the picture that this story really is about two clashing armies and not good overcoming evil.

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Yeah, no shit, you think?

Teo's army is still (supposedly) amassed just outside Eureka's Castle, and the best way to deal with this apparently is for everyone to take a nap. So ○∆□☆ retires to his room, which at this point is pretty swank and takes up an entire wing of the top floor...

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...cue magical girl exposition! And just when I got done praising the story for not being some played-out "good vs. evil" schtick.

What Leknaat is talking about is that she and Windy share a True Rune between them (the Gate Rune) and Windy is attempting to steal a second for herself (the Soul Eater). Later in the series they explain that it's impossible for one person to take two True Runes into themselves (this is kind of important to the plot of Suiko3), so exactly what Windy was planning to do with the Soul Eater is unclear. Equally ambiguous is the "revenge" she is determined to exact upon the world. The last message in particular is something I find humorous because there are a lot of examples in the series of regular Joes having True Runes with no real ill effect. In fact, it's not until Suiko4 that we start getting into the subject of Runes that have a negative effect on their hosts at all, and...

"Brick, you're not LPing Suiko4. Shut up and get back on point."

Right, sorry. The tl;dr is that Windy is the bad guy and I have to stop her, and by the way it would be okay if you freed everyone from the corrupt empire while I'm at it. Which... we pretty much knew since we got kicked out of Gregminster. So, really, all Leknaat accomplished was screwing ○∆□☆ out of some much needed rest. Well played, Leknaat!

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This line from Mathiu just flat out baffles me. Either he's hallucinating, or he really badly mispronounced "Pahn".

Brickroad
08-23-2008, 01:28 AM
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Fortunately, Flik of all people has had a brainstorm: by now the Secret Factory guys should have finished up a whole mess of Fire Spears, which should be effective even against the Armored Cavalry.

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Unfortunately, nobody knows if the Secret Factory is still standing. It is located in the north, after all, and Teo's been wreckin' shit up there pretty good for a while now. Not much for it but to head that way and check it out, though.

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Just by sheer coincidence Gen and Kamandol have thrown together a speedboat for me, which just happens to be what I need to get to the next area of the game! You'd think since Teo's army is within eyeshot it would be too dangerous to leave the castle through the front door, but nah, the Armored Cavalry mysteriously vanishes until the plot calls for them to be back.

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Still, ○∆□☆ is a poopy-pants nautical novice and can't possibly handle the breakneck speeds of Gen's new super-boat, and apparently he doesn't feel like politing it himself, so I've got to bring someone else down. That someone else is, of course, Tai Ho, and the other four slots will be filled with the frontrunners on the vote list.

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First up, my pocket's a little light, so I stop off at Gaspar's joint for a refill. By the time I've outfitted my new team I will have officially blown through one million bits since I started the game. How many non-Mario RPGs do you know where it is common to spend your max purse several times over before you're done?

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No thanks man! I think I'm good!

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Damn skippy!

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Okay, time for the newbie rundown. Gon is pretty similar to Kuromimi except in how some of his stats are laid out. To keep things simple I actually just popped his brother's old Killer Rune on him. Also note: Cool Sword. "Hey Gon! Your sword is totally cool!" "Dude I totally know!" "Hooray!" "Hooray!"

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Freakin'... kitchen knife? Oh lordy lordy. As you can see I didn't even bother giving Kimberly a rune, partially because she has fewer magic charges than does my pocket lint, and partially because it's probably possible to transmit STDs through used crystals.

Hilariously, Kimberly manages to out-damage Sheena the entire time we're out, although neither of them are particularly good thanks to being so horribly underleveled. Rounding out the team in the back line we have Camille, chosen from a four-way tie by an impartial third party, who will be rocking my Fire Rune. My plan as always is to rely on area attacks to take out enough monsters to level up the weaklings on my front line before they have to actually fight. PRO TIP: you can't do this if you forget to recharge ○∆□☆'s magic, but I didn't notice that I had forgotten to hit the Inn until I was well on my way to the next dungeon. (D'oh!)

Brickroad
08-23-2008, 01:30 AM
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Why, exactly, do we need a speedboat? Well for one, it travels about twice as fast as your regular ol' boat. For another, it gets you through what the game calls a "maelstrom" and lets you dock at the village of Kirov.

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Kirov has a few people to recruit, but absolutely no freebies. Melodye here won't sign on until I find her a unique rune.

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Sarah the laundry girl is more open to the idea, but only if I run an errand for her: she's out of soap. You know what that means, guys... fetch quest chain! Someone cue up the Benny Hill music!

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Generic NPC #3187 has soap, but won't give it to us unless we find him some soy sauce. Which is stupid because if ○∆□☆ dangled even 0.1% of his net worth in front of this guy's nose you know he'd be willing to give us his soap and his pants if we were in the market for some.

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Soy Sauce Man wants salt. Isn't... isn't soy sauce pretty salty already?

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Okay, but only if you promise you're going to use it to beat your children, and not anything boring like, say, measure a yard.

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Sorry buster, we left Milich back home and ○∆□☆ don't roll that way.

So where on earth are we going to find sugar?

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Why, at the store, of course! Sweet!

Heh heh see what I did there?

Brickroad
08-23-2008, 01:33 AM
So now that we have sugar we just repeat the fetch quest in reverse order...

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I swear to god someone needs to get all up in here and organize a weekly Kirov swap meet. You people are pathetic.

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That last guy (the first guy?) is a jerk, and tries to pull a "princess is in another castle!" on you. Of course he immediately backs down, perhaps because ○∆□☆ doesn't particularly look like he's in a chuckling mood after running around town doing everyone's grocery shopping.

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KICK IN THE NARDS. The laundry girl fetch quest is absolutely the most inane thing you have to do in the entire game in order to recruit someone. (Obviously the wheel-o-frustration back in Lepant's mansion is the most inane thing overall.)I mean, to Jabba and Esmeralda there's at least some element of adventure to it; farming for item drops isn't fun, but you do have to learn what item, exactly, they're looking for in the first place and which monster, exactly, drops it. That's something that uses up some brain units. Sarah's sidequest is just a series of hoops you have to jump through; no battles, no danger, no though required; just "do XYZ and you get a prize!"

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/sarah.gif065/108: Sarah
In all seriousness, Sarah isn't bad. She isn't great, but any L-range fighter with a decent amount of magic charges is a worthy addition to the party. We discovered Sarah while training up all the "joke characters" we could think of, and were pleasantly surprised with her performance. Still, she's nowhere near as awesome as the laundry girl from Suiko2, but that's someone else's LP.

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With that unpleasantness out of the way, it's time to do some super expensive shopping. Interesting to note about Gon: he's one of the few people who can use shields, and the Chaos Shield is the best one you can buy in the game. So even though he can't match the damage output of some of my other brutes, he is on average easier to keep alive.

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By "free man" he means a bum, of course. And of course the best thing I can offer this "free man" is a position of servitude in my army! But first he wants to play a game...

Brickroad
08-23-2008, 01:37 AM
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Georges's game involves memory matching. To recruit him you have to flip all the cards on the table over before the timer runs out (in this case, fifteen seconds). When you make a match, those two cards are removed from the table, and the four cards surrounding them flip over momentarily. If more matches can be made of those, they too are removed and the next layer of cards is flipped. While these chain reactions are ocurring the timer stops; it only ticks down while you're picking your cards. On the easiest difficulty Georges only uses five distinct cards (as you can see, I'm about to get two more matches right here), so you can clear the entire table in just a couple picks with a little luck.

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Your days of being a "free man" are over, bucko; I'm putting you to work digging ditches and emptying bedpans.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/georges.gif066/108: Georges
As can be expected, Georges is a non-combat character who plays his card game with you back at Eureka's Castle. It's kind of fun for a few minutes, but you can't win any money or prizes at it, so there's no reason to ever play him again once you've beaten him here in Kirov. Minigames like this are a pretty major part of the series, though, and that tradition gets its start with Georges/Gaspar/Marco.

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The last thing we need to do in Kirov is run around tasting everyone's stew. Because when you're barging into strange empty houses, the first thing on your mind is to sample the abandoned bubbling pot on the stove.

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Don't think too highly of yourself, I only did it because Tai Ho dared me.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/lester.gif067/108: Lester
Lester is our other chef, but I don't know if he's any better in the party than Antonio was. I'm betting not. They probably have a Unite, though.

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Here's the northernmost region of the Scarlet Moon Empire. The dot we just came from is, of course, Kirov. We're headed for Kalekka, and the Secret Factory is beyond that. The dot to our southwest is Moravia Castle, and southeast is the Floating Fortress Shazarazade. The mountainous area north of Shazarazade is none other than Mt. Tigerwulf, the dungeon ○∆□☆ braved all by his lonesome back in the very first update, which means the lonely dot in the valley is Sarady. Which, if you think about it, is pretty neat; they didn't just pick some random location for our meeting with Kage early in the game, they actually worked the map so it was a location geographically close to where Kage would be taking the plans to. (I guess we're supposed to assume that he was able to slip through mountains that are impassable to us, but I'm willing to suspend my disbelief that far because, hello! NINJA!)

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Here's the destroyed town of Kalekka. This is either "just another busywork dungeon" or "a vital piece of Suikoden lore" depending on how deep you like to get into the story. If you don't care, skip to the next post. Elsewise, brace for a history lesson.

Being in the northernmost region of the Empire, Kalekka was most at risk of being invaded by Jowston(e). This was especially true right after the War of Succession, when Emperor Barbarosa first took the throne. Tired of war, pretty much nobody cared when Jowston(e) made a land grab south and occupied a lot of area, completely demolishing the poor village. However, the destruction of the village caused Imperial patriotism to swell, and invigorated the army's morale; the great generals banded together and retook the region, pushing Jowston(e) back. Though Kalekka was lost, occupation was averted, as was the drawn-out war that would have inevitably followed.

At least, that's the Imperials' "official" story.

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What really happened was this cat, Leon Silverberg, Mathiu and Odessa's uncle according to outside sources. Leon was Barbarosa's chief strategist during the Succession War, and he saw the importance of avoiding war with Jowston(e) at whatever cost. In order to drum up public support for a campaign against the Jowston(e) invaders, Leon himself arranged for Kalekka to be razed and for the blame to be placed on his enemies. His ploy, though it didn't sit well with any of the generals, worked perfectly; Kalekka was burned and the armies rallied against Jowston(e). In Leon's mind (and probably in cold, cold reality as well) the greater good was served.

The "Kalekka Tragedy" or "Kalekka Incident" (depending on where you do your research) left its mark on several of the Suikoden characters. It's the reason Mathiu developed his anti-war sentiments and tried to dissolve from Imperial service. Our favorite stoic swordsman, Humphrey, participated in the sack of Kalekka and was so disgusted at what he was being asked to do that he murdered his commanding officer and became a wanted man, eventually falling in with Odessa and her fledgling Liberation. (Though, how he could stomach the Silverberg name at that point is anyone's guess.) Even Leon himself retired afterwards.

You guys know by now I try not to put too much stock in "weak canon" sources, but most everything pertaning to the Kalekka Incident are right here in the game. Presumably this is to really play up that the Scarlet Moon Empire is absolutely corrupt and has got to go; greater good or not, the Liberation would never stand for torching its own lands and betryaying its own people in order to win a battle.

As for Leon himself, I find him to be one of the most fascinating characters in the series. I can't recruit him yet, but I will eventually. He comes back as the "bad guy" in Suikoden 2 but, remember, in the Suikoden series, many of the "bad guys" aren't.

For those of you who managed to sit through my gushing fanboyishness there, and didn't skip to the next post, here's (http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo062.jpg) a great shot of Gon chopping up some hideous bird-man. Hooray!

Brickroad
08-23-2008, 01:38 AM
We can file this one under "kick ass!":

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Ninja-man pile driving Kimberly into the ground. Suddenly I am very, very glad you guys made me bring her along.

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The last living resident except for Leon, you mean. Apparently the old man isn't bothered by the many hundreds of monsters that now inhabit Kalekka, just so long as he's got his beard and his bottomless bowl of soup.

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I won't be able to read this in-game until the next scenario, but this is actualy the Imperial account of the Kalekka Tragedy. Fitting, no?

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There's a requirement to recruiting Blackman the farmer, but I didn't learn what it was until my second or third pass through the game.

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I know absolutely nothing about this guy other than he has a ridiculous name and is a farmer. In order to recruit him, all you have to do is talk to him before you stomp on his plants. (Or, if you do, leave the screen and come back.)

Of course once he's not around to see you, you may feel free to stomp with impunity...

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Hmm... I should try doing this with Blackman in the party, on the off chance he flips out and murders anyone. I won't hold my breath, though.

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This is the item we need to recruit Melodye. We'll pick her up on our next pass through Kirov.

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"Fuck Dagon!" "Yeessssss!"

Brickroad
08-23-2008, 01:39 AM
Okay guys, I know I normally try to avoid doing this, but I simply cannot resist presenting this next conversation unaltered:

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Oh ○∆□☆, you're such a stinker!

Brickroad
08-23-2008, 01:42 AM
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As soon as Ledon identifies us as the guy who was hanging out with Odessa at his inn, Ronnie Bell runs off to inform her boss that we've arrived.

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Of course this frees Ledon and Kessler up to drop sob stories on us, practically begging to be let into the Liberation Army. Interestingly enough, you'll recall the first time we rean into these guys were when we were delivering the Fire Spear blueprints to Sarady. Perhaps even more interestingly, the only reason ○∆□☆ didn't burn down his in after "being served a tea" is because the PlayStation controller didn't have a button for it.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/ledon.gif069/108: Ledon
Ledon is all but pointless at this stage in the game; he can't be assigned to the party, and his role in major combat (that of a third Thief) is pretty insubstantial considering we're about to get our second Ninja. Maybe we can put him to work brewing tea...

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kessler.gif070/108: Kessler
Kessler, on the other hand, can be assigned to the party. He joins Varkas and Sydonia in the "Bandits" Charge unit, and my gut says he's probably similar to Varkas in battle... not that I know much about what Varkas is like.

Brickroad
08-23-2008, 01:44 AM
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Inside the Secret Factory we meet up with the infamous Kage. Since he's almost very literally only asking for peanuts, there's no reason to turn him down. In fact, there are several good reasons not to.

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Kage is our second Ninja, giving us two freebie rounds per skirmish instead of one. He's got an L-range weapon and an empty rune slot. I don't believe he's a great magic-user, but it's the perfect spot for Killer or Double-beat. I mean, I never particularly get much use from him outside of the mass combat scenes, but if you're gonna reach on the shelf for a ninja in your party why would you pick Kasumi over this guy?

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More collectibles! As you've probably guessed most of these are in treasure boxes, but a few have to be won off monsters. It takes something like an hour or two of running around if you really want to have the whole set, so...

Hey peanut gallery!
Do you want me to collect the whole sets? This includes all the Sound and Window Sets plus the full collection of Old Books. Although I'm probably making a mistake deferring to your judgment on this since the answer is just going to be "lol kimberly" anyway.

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Mose and his fantastic Hitler 'stache cut right to the point: yes, we have Fire Spears. No, we can't transport them to Eureka's Castle. Why? Because we don't have enough boats. Mose doesn't technically join yet, but once he does he becomes our third blacksmith. For the past few months (year?) his smithering skills have been hard at work mass producing Fire Spears. In fact, you can see racks of them in the screenshot!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo088.jpg
Tai Ho thinks he can solve the boat problem by calling in a favor from a buddy of his in Kirov. So, back to Kirov with us! (Of course we'll be taking the Blinking Mirror/Viki shortcut rather than hiking back through Kalekka, because we're not morons.)

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo089.jpg
Mission accomplished!

We're done with regular combat for this scenario, but there won't be a major recruitment drive before the next one; you pretty much get everyone in the Kirov/Kalekka area in one pass. So keep those votes coming in! For the record, Kimberly wasn't as completely terrible as I was expecting; I was figuring she'd be along the lines of, say, Sergei or Sansuke, when really she managed to pull her weight okay. Sheena was the big disappointment this time around, honestly, though I almost wish there was a boss so I could have at least showed off some cool Lightning Rune attacks. Master list hasn't moved. (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=224080&postcount=2)

Countdown to Quincy: 9 Stars of Destiny.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo090.jpg

Gredlen
08-23-2008, 02:00 AM
I don't care about the Sound Sets (or, really, the Window Sets either), but you absolutely have to get all the Old Books.
lol kimberly

Pajaro Pete
08-23-2008, 02:24 AM
A damn sensible idea, Mathiu. Man, this is twice now an Imperial General has made fools out of us on the field. What the hell kind of edge do we need this time?

It's also twice that your brilliant strategist Matthew waited until the Liberation Army had been decimated before ordering a retreat.

No wait that's wrong. Decimated means "killing one out of every ten" whereas this is "killing 9 out of every ten" so I guess this is the opposite of that.

Later in the series they explain that it's impossible for one person to take two True Runes into themselves

Let's Just Say that since the Gate Rune is in twosies, it doesn't count as a full True Rune, providing a loophole for Kootie Pie Koopa.

Rosencrantz
08-23-2008, 03:04 AM
Don't bother collecting all the Sound and Window sets, and here's why:

If you change your window setting and color, then save your game and reset it, the game will remember your new color but NOT your new window. You'd have to go all the way back to Window (up in Milich's area of the castle) every time you turn the game on to change it back.

And as for the sound sets... not worth it since everyone is just reading along.

mopinks
08-23-2008, 04:33 AM
you are going to collect the sound sets and the windows sets and every other little meaningless trifle you could possibly collect.

in your heart, you know this is the one true path.

Kishi
08-23-2008, 07:34 AM
Leon was Barbarosa's chief strategist during the Succession War, and he saw the importance of avoiding war with Jowston(e) at whatever cost.

Okay.


In order to drum up public support for a campaign against the Jowston(e) invaders, Leon himself arranged for Kalekka to be razed and for the blame to be placed on his enemies.

Wait, what? But you just said--!

Netbrian
08-23-2008, 09:39 AM
Collect everything.

And you're just lucky you didn't get voted a party of six S-Range people.

Elfir
08-23-2008, 09:52 AM
Get books and windows, skip the sounds. And while fighting the monsters, take a bunch of screen shots of random chumps in your party doing stuff.

Also use Kasumi and don't use Kage. 'Cause I'm mean.

estragon
08-23-2008, 10:09 AM
I say just get the books.

The alternate windows all suck anyway.

Also, I'd like to see you use either Sarah or Ronnie Bell.

shivam
08-23-2008, 10:34 AM
Kage was a mainstay of my party from the moment i got him till the endgame. I stuck him with a water/flowing rune and just rocked house from there.

him and clive may not be the best charas, but damn it, they're my favorites.

and ronnie bell is pretty rad.

Mazian
08-23-2008, 11:36 AM
That fetch quest is triggering a vicarious moment of rage and I'm not even the one playing!

What happens if you decline to fight your father? I'm assuming the plot requires that it end the same way, but I'm hoping it means that in your absence, Qlon steps up to lead. It is his destiny.

Brickroad
08-23-2008, 01:04 PM
Okay.

Wait, what? But you just said--!

Think of it this way: if Leon hadn't garnered enough popular support for a strong, expedient push against Jowston(e), he would have had a prolonged occupation on his hands. Ousting the invaders later would have resulted in more lives lost than ousting them now, which is why he did what he did.

It's interesting to note the differences between the various tacticians in the Suikoden series. In order to win the Liberation War, Mathiu essentially does the opposite of what Leon did towards the end. You'll see!

What happens if you decline to fight your father? I'm assuming the plot requires that it end the same way, but I'm hoping it means that in your absence, Qlon steps up to lead. It is his destiny.

No, it's a "but thou must!" situation. I just like jerking your guys' chains.

tungwene
08-23-2008, 01:58 PM
I don't see the point of getting all the collectibles, especially not the sound settings. Only get the books if you're planning on masochistically reading/showing us what they all say later on.

Dhroo
08-23-2008, 02:09 PM
I just like jerking your guys' chains.

That's not the only thing you like jerkin'! Woooooooo!

yeah, okay, I'll go back to my corner now

Issun
08-23-2008, 03:07 PM
I vote no on all the doodads. Really, this LP is entertaining, and getting bogged down in hunting for books and sets would really kill the momentum.

I wan to to vote for party members, but I won't. I'm doing this because I hope I'll score some points not sticking crappy characters in your party, and at the endgame you'll say "That Issunbug is alright. I really should eat up my last frontline spot with Sonya."
Although you should anyways, because she rocks so hard.

Octopus Prime
08-23-2008, 03:28 PM
I know I die a little inside whenever I find treasure in a game and it's something lame like a new sound effect or something.

I don't want you to suffer like that Brick, you ignore those side quests.

poetfox
08-23-2008, 10:36 PM
The books seem important to get, show off all the windows you get without, I dunno, doing anything frustrating like grinding random monsters, and sounds are really kind of pointless in this medium.
There, those are my votes. And thank you for using Gon. Hooray!

Elfir
08-23-2008, 11:47 PM
And thank you for using Gon. Hooray!

I'm quite impressed with the little scamp too. If S-range space wasn't so scarce in this game I'd ask to use him more.

I'm changing my votes on the collection aspect. Showcase the stupid shit you got without any real effort and don't worry about the rest. I fully support running around with ugly flower menus or whatever whenever reasonable, though.

shivam
08-24-2008, 03:43 AM
goddamn it. because of you, i started replaying suiko 1, and made it up to lepant and friends. And now, i'm gunning to beat you to the end. The race is on, son.

Kirin
08-24-2008, 10:03 AM
Yeah, I concur with the "show off the windows you get but don't grind for 'em" opinion. Also, books are cool, but y'know, since they're just text, you could just link to gamefaqs or something if you want to let people read any that you'd have to grind for. Though, they don't actually make books random drops, do they? That'd be mean.

Also, you should totally use Sarah for Xtreme laundry combat.
And Kasumi instead of Kage because we love you.

PapillonReel
08-24-2008, 10:07 AM
All right, I need to know: is Kasumi really a guy, or is Brick just foolin' with my head?

Elfir
08-24-2008, 10:12 AM
All right, I need to know: is Kasumi really a guy, or is Brick just foolin' with my head?

Brick is foolin' with your head. I, on the other hand, am doing my LP 100% straight and would never do that to someone.

Kishi
08-24-2008, 02:03 PM
All right, I need to know: is Kasumi really a guy, or is Brick just foolin' with my head?

Brick is not being a gentleman.

Mazian
08-24-2008, 02:55 PM
Perhaps even more interestingly, the only reason ○∆□☆ didn't burn down his in after "being served a tea" is because the PlayStation controller didn't have a button for it.
It's R3. I know, no one ever remembers about the stick buttons. Lousy design, eh?

Rosencrantz
08-24-2008, 03:46 PM
It's R3. I know, no one ever remembers about the stick buttons. Lousy design, eh?

It's even easier to forget them when you play a game that was released before the dualshock was created!

Mazian
08-24-2008, 04:12 PM
It's even easier to forget them when you play a game that was released before the dualshock was created!
I know! Suikoden's design was just that advanced.

Kishi
08-24-2008, 04:14 PM
There needs to be an out-of-universe Suiko game where your hero goes around recruiting 107 characters from various Konami games. "Wai Wai Suikoden" or something.

mopinks
08-24-2008, 04:28 PM
you could fill out 107 slots with Pop'n Music characters alone!

this includes Upa and Goemon and Vic Viper and Simon Belmont, of course.

Kishi
08-24-2008, 08:06 PM
If I knew Suikoden better, I'd totally go down the stone tablet and assign a fitting Konami character to each star.

SpoonyGundam
08-24-2008, 08:44 PM
Here's a handy list. (http://www.suikosource.com/chars/stars/)

It has the name of the star, what it represents, the characters for each game, and any pattern that the star uses throughout the series. Not all of them have a pattern.

Get to work!

Brickroad
08-24-2008, 11:15 PM
http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage001.jpg
Ha ha! Gon dropped the Soap!

Suikoden Interlude!
It's time now, gang, to answer a burning question. I just signed Kage on for 20,000 bits. But am I really going to get my money's worth? You might remember this little tidbit...

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/greatforest052.jpg
So, Kage snuck into the Dwarf Vault alone, did he? I picked on the Dwarf Vault quite a bit, but truth be told none of my guys could have made it through alone at the time. Well, maybe a Fire Rune user might have done well, if s/he took time timt to level up on some of the easier battles, and stocked up on huge piles of Medicine, and got to the point where s/he could Let Go the monsters inside... anyway, the point is, it's time to put Kage to the test.

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage003.jpg
http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage004.jpg
Here are Kage's unaltered stats from right when he joined up. I'm assuming for the sake of argument that he's not any weaker now than he was then, and that if he had better equipment than what he's currently wearing he would still be wearing it. So we're gonna run this here ninja through the Vault with exactly the stats and equipment you see here. His inventory is completely empty except for his Karate Uniform.

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage005.jpg
First order of business is getting Kage alone in the party, which means stripping ○∆□☆ and Tai Ho down to their skivvies...

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage006.jpg
...then having Viki warp us over to Kalekka so they can get raped to death by birdmen. Thanks, Viki!

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage007.jpg
Wow, Kage is a damn good ninja. You can't even see him in this screenshot; he's hiding behind the somehow still-animated corpse of his current employer. I'm beginning to think he might pull this off!

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage008.jpg
As we can see, Kage is strong enough in this state to Let Go from the encounters. Which means if he were so inclined he could rush right to the end without ever fighting a single monster. But that's not how I roll; for the sake of SCIENCE!, let's see how well Kage can fight these guys.

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage009.jpg
http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage010.jpg
Ouch. Looks like he can take the robots out with a couple hits, but the damage he sustains in return is brutal considering he'd be soaking up 100% of the hits and he's only got about 350 HPs. If Kage did break in here previously, he sure as heck didn't fight his way through.

Brickroad
08-24-2008, 11:17 PM
A true ninja, of course, wouldn't be fighting anyway; he'd sneak in, silent as the night, then spirit himself away, leaving no traces of his visit behind.

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage011.jpg
I do believe, though, that Kage has an unfair advantage, seeing as how ○∆□☆ has already solved all the "puzzles" and the dwarves didn't bother to reset them after he left. Since the "puzzles" were laughably dumb to begin with, though, I feel we can safely ignore them. We'll just assume Kage has an intellect at least equal to a reasonably smart monkey and would have thought to at least flip some levers randomly for a few seconds.

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage012.jpg
Just for fun, let's see how much damage Kage sustains by hanging out and killing these two Death Machines...

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage013.jpg
Ouch. Yeah. And that was from one fight. The "Let Go" mechanic is actually pretty silly, since it seems to work only on the party's average level, and is not at all an indication of how easy or difficult the fight will actually be. I think I've sated my curiousity as to Kage's martial prowess; I'll let him Let Go every other battle from here on out.

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage014.jpg
Ninjas are not daunted by floating platforms.

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage015.jpg
Haha, yeah, right. I'm about 99% sure there's no possible way Kage could win this fight. In fact, his lights would probably be out before the first round is over.

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage016.jpg
Ninjas do not abide by riddles. I'm sure Kage solved this "puzzle" the only way he knew how: punching the stone slab over and over until it started to make sense.

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage017.jpg
Hmm... a wrench in my experiment. You'll recall there was a boss fight here...

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/greatforest063.jpg
Yeah, that's the guy. Unfortunately there's no way to bring the big monster back for our test. Honestly I can't think of a single way Kage could win that fight, at least not in this state. His weapon is as sharp as ○∆□☆'s and friends were back in the day, but his armor isn't up to snuff and he has nothing to heal himself with. But, as it happens, it may not be a problem.

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage018.jpg
See, Gigantes was very clearly guarding the Running Water Root. Kage wasn't here for that; he was here for Burning Mirror schematics. It's plausible that they were hidden in one of the empty rooms ○∆□☆ encountered, and not guarded by a giant creatures. Indeed, that's pretty much the only way this whole thing could have worked.

So there you have it. Kage is a bad enough dude to brave the Dwarf Vault all by himself, thanks in large part to Suikoden's broken "Let Go" mechanic.

Next time: ○∆□☆'s dad can beat up your dad! (Or something.)

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kage019.jpg
Oh god it says the same thing on the back. DWARVEN GIBBERISH CONFOUNDS ME.

SpoonyGundam
08-24-2008, 11:56 PM
He obviously didn't solve any of the puzzles. You said yourself that the dwarves didn't reset them after they knew for a fact that someone broke into the vault. Why would they go in and reset them for no reason? No, the puzzles you ran into were exactly as Kage left them.

"But how could he have gotten past that lever/hole puzzle without pulling a lever?" you might ask. Well, he probably jumped over the holes and/or balls. I mean, it doesn't look very hard. I could probably do it, and I'm not even a ninja.

Rosencrantz
08-25-2008, 12:12 AM
Also, ninjas in the Suikoden series are literally able to teleport short distances. I originally assumed it was just a trick of the eye and they were just moving really quickly with a flourish, but in Suikoden IV (the worst of the series) two of your ninjas use that ability to teleport from one boat to another as part of the story.

On another topic, I'm almost done replaying Suikoden II as part of my replay-athon in anticipation of Tierkreis, and I'm debating whether or not I want to replay III or IV. I didn't particularly enjoy either, but it feels weird having these two games in the main series that I've only played once when I've played the other three multiple times. At least IV is nearly as short as the original game... (The music was pretty good, too.) I enjoyed the Suikoden III manga much more than the game, so maybe I'll just reread that in lieu of replaying it.

Gredlen
08-25-2008, 12:22 AM
Maybe the dwarves just left the Burning Mirror schematics laying around in the first room. It'd fit with the rest of their security measures.

Brickroad
08-26-2008, 08:41 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo092.jpg
Okay, enough screwing around, let's put the party back the way it was and get on with life, here.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo093.jpg
First up, we'll deliver the Sound Rune to the little girl in Kirov who wanted it. ○∆□☆ does this because he is a gentleman.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/melodye.gif072/108: Melodye
Melodye puts our Sound Sets to good use, which enables us to change the sound effects we hear on the menu. As I've already said this is kind of pointless in a regular ol' screenshot LP, so her actual function is going to be to sit in the castle and not do much of anything.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo094.jpg
Tai Ho's friend gives us a warm welcome befitting a man named Cunt-o.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo095.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo096.jpg
That's it? No fetch quest? No bullcrap? No "first break into my house"? No Teo McDohl swooping in on a flying eel to spirit you off to some dank hellhole?

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kunto.gif073/108: Kun To
Tai Ho's buddy is a seagoing merchant and a non-combat character. He does fill up the last of my Merchant slots in major battles, though, because God knows Chandler and Chapman have proven their worth to me time and again. Interestingly, Kun To hangs out in Lepant's wing back at Eureka's Castle, probably because Kimberly lives in Tai Ho's shack and he doesn't want to be anywhere near her.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo097.jpg
Everyone stands idly by while Ronnie Bell loads all the Fire Spears into Kun To's boats. (That's not me joking around, either, that's what this cutscene actually is.)

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo098.jpg
This is Tai Ho's response to Kun To's inquiry as to why he joined the Liberation Army. Glad you're taking this seriously, Tai Ho!

Brickroad
08-26-2008, 08:42 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo099.jpg
No work left in the Secret Factory, so ol' Hitlerstache decides to abandon it and join up full time.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/mose.gif074/108: Mose
Mose is our third blacksmith, and the only one who joins as a part of the plot. He sees about as much action as Maas, since we'll be getting our fourth blacksmith right at the start of the next scenario. Unlike the other recruitable blacksmiths, though, there isn't a comparable NPC that I know of, so he will at least get some work done for me.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo100.jpg
UG. GIANT WOMAN BORED. GIANT WOMAN GIVE ○∆□☆ SNU-SNU.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/bell.gif075/108: Ronnie Bell
I've never used her, but Ronnie Bell comes equipped with the Hate Rune. I can't wait to find out its function.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo101.jpg
Back at Eureka's Castle, Mose brings everyone's weapons up to speed. His cap is L12, but like I said we'll be getting the next blacksmith almost right away, who will be able to bring us up to L15.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo102.jpg
For some reason this terrifies me. Not that GIANT WOMAN is learning to cook, per se, but what the hell does she talk about hanging out with Onil and Mina all day?

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo103.jpg
Melodye's made herself comfortable up in FAG TOWER. Let's see what her gimmick is.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo104.jpg
This is what the Sound Set screen looks like. Right now I just have Normal (which sounds like typical RPG menu blips) and Voice (which sounds like various squeaks and giggles). Voice is 500% more annoying, so I'll use that one. I won't really but they'll never know the difference Ha ha, suckers!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo105.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo106.jpg
All that lollygagging over and done with, Mathiu decides it's high time we light some Imperials on fire. ○∆□☆ agrees wholeheartedly.

Brickroad
08-26-2008, 08:44 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo107.jpg
○∆□☆ vs. Teo, take two!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo108.jpg
First I... dammit, Tai Ho, it's not a goddamn secret if you go and tell everyone. That's 500 push-ups.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo109.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo110.jpg
Really there's no point to using Ninjas here. Fire Spears only trigger if you Charge, and there's not much Teo can do about it.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo111.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo112.jpg
It's the exact opposite of our last match; the Liberation serves up thousands of heaping plates of fiery death, and Teo has no real option but to bend over and take it.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo113.jpg
Hey, you asked for it, Dad.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo114.jpg
"After all, that's what Kwanda and Milich did, and they both have posh new rooms in Eureka's Castle. Also they got to keep their heads."

Brickroad
08-26-2008, 08:45 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo115.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo116.jpg
Unfortunately (for him), Teo isn't being controlled by a Black Rune the way the first two Generals were. Since he's here on his own free will, the implication is that he's not going to betray Barbarosa. Which leaves just one course of action...

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo117.jpg
Remember, kids, Mathiu used to be a pacifist. Think ○∆□☆ might have been a bad influence?

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo118.jpg
In any case either due to a sense of honor, or wanting to give the strongest Imperial General a fitting end, or an Old Yeller-style sense of personal responsiblity, or years of latent hatred and resentment finally coming to a boil, ○∆□☆ decides he must be the one to put old pops to bed.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo119.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo120.jpg
Geez, Dad, you've really let yourself go. One attack? For serious?

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo121.jpg
With his dying breath, Teo accepts ○∆□☆'s choices and gives him his blessing after recognizing the importance of fighting for what you believe in. For he, too, fought and died for what he believed in.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo122.jpg
Then, he turns around and orders his two manservants to join the Liberation, because he's not their dad and doesn't give half a rotten shit whether or not they get the chance to fight what they believe in. Teo is a complicated man with a complicated outlook on life.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/alen.gif076/108: Alen
An S-range fighter who comes with a glued-on Rage Rune, Alen bears the distinct honor of having more empty real estage in his portrait than pretty much any other character.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/grenseal.gif077/108: Grenseal
Grenseal is more or less a clone of Alen, except he comes with a Thunder Rune instead. Either of Teo's officers are excellent picks for the party because of their high-end runes.

Brickroad
08-26-2008, 08:46 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo123.jpg
You know, we've got a pretty good doctor back at the castle. And, uh, I just hit you with a stick really hard. Maybe he can get you some ice or something...?

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo124.jpg
Ah, crap.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo125.jpg
Well, too late now. Although I guess you could say ○∆□☆ gets to carry his father with him wherever he goes!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo126.jpg
The aptly named "Hell" is an instant death spell that hits all the enemies. In Suikoden, death attacks actually mean something, too! I keep saying that high-level magic equals a "freebie" fight where you just kill all the monsters and drink their sweet, sweet EXP. Hell is the ultimate "freebie" spell, doubly useful considering we're rubbing up on one of the game's most obnoxious dungeons before long here.

Hey peanut gallery!
I'm running low on votes! The next scenario is two dungeons long. It gives me three empty spots for the first half and two empty spots for the second, so I'll take a different team into each one. Master list is here (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=224080&postcount=2).

Countdown to Quincy: 3 Stars of Destiny.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/teo127.jpg
Oh, my bad, I only had to murder my dad and eat his soul. I'll stop trying to be such a fucking dick.

SpoonyGundam
08-26-2008, 09:13 PM
I'd like to point out that Alen and Grenseal have a Unite Attack with Flik. It's called "Pretty Boy Attack." Yeah.

I was going to vote for Ronnie Bell to make her way into the party, since her daughter is pretty awesome in Suikoden III. But then I came to my senses and realized that I might be voting in a capable fighter.

So Blackman, Sarah, and Lester instead.

SlimJimm
08-26-2008, 09:20 PM
I came to my senses and realized that I might be voting in a capable fighter.

We cant have that!
No really, we cant.

Take Mose and Blackman (who isnt very black at all!) instead.

poetfox
08-26-2008, 09:33 PM
Ronnie Bell plzkthx. Her being useful be damned, I must see what a giant woman can do!

Also, monocle guy. I have already forgotten his name, but again... Monocle. He's gotta be awesome.
...Kamandol. That is his name, apparently. Huh.

And dammit, don't take any blacksmiths until you can super-blacksmith attack with all of them.

Mightyblue
08-26-2008, 09:35 PM
Is the S1 Sarah the same as the S3 Sarah?

Gredlen
08-26-2008, 09:55 PM
At some point, you're going to need to take the ambiguously gay knight duo with you.

That point is after you take Blackman the gardener, Sarah the laundry woman, and Kamandol the monocle man out for a spin.

Kishi
08-26-2008, 10:11 PM
Damn. McDohl just killed his dad.

Damn.

shivam
08-26-2008, 10:22 PM
RON NIE BELL RON NIE BELL RON NIE BELL/chants

SpoonyGundam
08-26-2008, 10:37 PM
Is the S1 Sarah the same as the S3 Sarah?

No. They aren't even the same star. This is important, since whenever a character shows up in multiple games, he or she is the same star in all of them. There might be an exception, but I can't think of one offhand.

It's not the only time in the series where two characters have the same name, either. There's a Hugo in S1 and S3, and a Gordon in S2 and S3. Maybe more, but Gordon is doubly notable on account of them actually sharing their star. And I never noticed it before, but all of those repeat names were S3 characters. What the hell, Suikoden III?

shivam
08-26-2008, 10:40 PM
i was certain that both sarahs were the same?

tungwene
08-26-2008, 10:42 PM
I vote for Ronnie too. She's pretty damn useful. Also Alen and Grenseal so that along with Flik they can perform the Pretty Boy Unite that you have to show us pictures of.

Is the S1 Sarah the same as the S3 Sarah?No.

S3's Sarah was only born the year S1 is set in.

tungwene
08-26-2008, 10:49 PM
No. They aren't even the same star. This is important, since whenever a character shows up in multiple games, he or she is the same star in all of them. There might be an exception, but I can't think of one offhand.Not an exception but Ted is an oddity. Spoilers since the LP hasn't gotten that far: He's not a Star in Suikoden but he is in IV and the star he's assigned is Luc's star even though both of them appear together in the first game. That's more of a I-don't-know-rules-if-you-are/aren't-a-star-in-this-universe thing than an exception. I don't think there are any examples like that for other characters who aren't stars who become stars. Usually the person who's star they've taken over is also not a character in that game.

mr_bungle700
08-26-2008, 11:05 PM
Another vote for Ronnie Bell. I'm curious about her Hate Rune.

Also giant or not she is damn sexy.

Meditative_Zebra
08-26-2008, 11:07 PM
I vote for Valerie, that ninja girl, and the totally competent laundry woman Sarah. And I'll throw in another vote for Ronnie Bell just cause I, too, am curious about the Hate Rune.

Also, I can't wait till Pahn gets his scenario. I love the backtalk he gets.

Malefor
08-26-2008, 11:12 PM
Ronnie Bell (Hate Rune!) and Kasumi, please.

SpoonyGundam
08-26-2008, 11:15 PM
I don't know what the Hate Rune does either, guys, but I can probably guess.

It'll do 2x damage to a single enemy and may or may not unbalance Ronnie Bell. You know, like every other rune like that in this game.

Torgo
08-26-2008, 11:15 PM
My votes go to Valeria and Stallion.

Kishi
08-26-2008, 11:20 PM
Too bad Gremio's dead. He and Ronnie could have had a "giant woman" Unite.

tungwene
08-26-2008, 11:20 PM
Also giant or not she is damn sexy.Ronnie actually looks like a decent representation of a woman which is more than can be said for most of the female character portraits in Suikoden.

Kimberley: Clearly a dude with too much eye shadow
Kasumi: We've discussed her already
Valeria: Dude with breast-shaped breast-plates (say that three times fast!)
Lorelai: That hair!
Mina: Same goes for her!
Cleo: Guy
Sylvina: Looks like she's ten.
Kasios: ...wait.

Kishi
08-26-2008, 11:23 PM
Sylvina: Looks like she's ten.

Don't be racist.

tungwene
08-26-2008, 11:38 PM
Don't be racist.Merely pointing out the differences in cultural norms in a totally non-racist way.

Pajaro Pete
08-26-2008, 11:42 PM
Congratulations that's the creepiest thing that's ever been posted on Talking Time.

tungwene
08-26-2008, 11:43 PM
Sweet. What do I win?

Pajaro Pete
08-26-2008, 11:50 PM
Let's just say the Soul Eater's about to go up another level.

tungwene
08-27-2008, 12:00 AM
If leveling up were that easy shouldn't we cannibalize a few more TTers to see just how high that sucker can go? Is this some reverse psychology trick?

Merus
08-27-2008, 12:03 AM
Merely pointing out the differences in cultural norms in a totally non-racist way.
Talkin' 'bout the jailbait

Pajaro Pete
08-27-2008, 12:07 AM
If leveling up were that easy shouldn't we cannibalize a few more TTers to see just how high that sucker can go? Is this some reverse psychology trick?

If Odessa counts, then Tyrants should count.

Netbrian
08-27-2008, 12:14 AM
I'd like to place my vote for Ronnie Bell. And the laundry person.

Stiv
08-27-2008, 12:44 AM
GIANT WOMAN and also shit, I don't know, some really awful character. I want to see General Homosexual in action (not in that kind of action).

Makkara
08-27-2008, 04:16 AM
RON NIE BELL RON NIE BELL RON NIE BELL/chants

DEATH BY SNU SNU DEATH BY SNU SNU

So yeah, I vote for Ronnie Bell.

McDohl
08-27-2008, 04:22 AM
Not an exception but Ted is an oddity. Spoilers since the LP hasn't gotten that far: He's not a Star in Suikoden but he is in IV and the star he's assigned is Luc's star even though both of them appear together in the first game. That's more of a I-don't-know-rules-if-you-are/aren't-a-star-in-this-universe thing than an exception. I don't think there are any examples like that for other characters who aren't stars who become stars. Usually the person who's star they've taken over is also not a character in that game.

The way it's supposed to work:

Every single person is born under a star. It's kind of like zodiac signs. When you fill up Ye Olde Stone Tablet (or, if it's Suikoden IV, the Corkboard of Destiny), you're essentially collecting one person who fits under every sign. So while a game can have two people under the same star sign, you technically need only one to fulfill the requirement. I believe there's an instance in S5 where this happens.

And McDohl in S2 works in reverse. Tenkai Star in 1, random hero in 2.

estragon
08-27-2008, 04:52 AM
Guys, you're being really nice to Brickroad here with this Ronnie Bell love.

She's actually a pretty sweet character.

And she has a Ryu/Ken-esque fireball attack.

TheSL
08-27-2008, 08:25 AM
A vote for Sarah is a vote for clean clothes! And hey, you have to justify that fetch quest somehow.

Brickroad
08-27-2008, 08:29 AM
I would like to reiterate that Sarah is a very good character. Not top-tier by any means, but sort of like a Cleo-lite. And I'll have to use Cleo in the next scenario anyway.

estragon
08-27-2008, 08:39 AM
I would like to reiterate that Sarah is a very good character. Not top-tier by any means, but sort of like a Cleo-lite. And I'll have to use Cleo in the next scenario anyway.

Between Sarah and Ronnie, you may actually get to use a good party.

Blasphemy.

SpoonyGundam
08-27-2008, 08:42 AM
The way it's supposed to work:

Every single person is born under a star. It's kind of like zodiac signs. When you fill up Ye Olde Stone Tablet (or, if it's Suikoden IV, the Corkboard of Destiny), you're essentially collecting one person who fits under every sign. So while a game can have two people under the same star sign, you technically need only one to fulfill the requirement. I believe there's an instance in S5 where this happens.

Exception: Tomo in S2, who falls under one of two different stars, depending on which returning character from S1 you choose.

And I wouldn't say Sarah is a very good character. Cleo-lite isn't really a very good description either, as her stat growth makes her closer to a long-range Sansuke than Cleo (http://www.suikosource.com/games/gs1/guides/statgrowth.php). It's comparable to all the other joke characters, really. I guess the long-range is important, but she isn't actually a very good caster, contrary to popular belief.

Brickroad
08-27-2008, 08:42 AM
Between Sarah and Ronnie, you may actually get to use a good party.

Blasphemy.

The game's going to force Viktor and Cleo in my party so you could stick me with Sergei and Sansuke and Sergei again and I'd still have a good party.

liquidben
08-27-2008, 06:05 PM
http://animeanonymous.com/stash/suiko/leonardo.gif058/108: Leonardo
...
The only thing really of note is that Leonardo's weapon is called the HORSE KILLER HATCHET which is probably the single coolest sounding weapon in the Liberation.

HORSE KILLER HATCHET! = AWESOME!
AWESOME HEADGEAR! = MOR HAWSOME! (is that hair his or part of the hat?)

C'mon, somebody back me up on this?

Thinaran
08-27-2008, 06:09 PM
And he's named the same as my favorite Turtle! My votes go to Leo and GIANT WOMAN.

dwolfe
08-27-2008, 07:22 PM
I vote, eternally, for my new avatar (hooray for Gon!)

Elfir
08-27-2008, 07:37 PM
Gon and the Giant Woman!

mopinks
08-27-2008, 07:44 PM
it looks like a foregone conclusion at this point but I'm going to throw my vote in with the Ronnie Bell train anyway. I mean, she's giant!

Octopus Prime
08-28-2008, 02:32 AM
Who wouldn't want to vote for a giant woman?

But a vote for Gon is a vote for puppy-abuse. You don't... HATE PUPPIES, do you?

xxtymmie
08-28-2008, 04:48 AM
But a vote for Gon is a vote for puppy-abuse. You don't... HATE PUPPIES, do you?

Mke O'Malley certainly doesn't! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XMEk6fQmDE)

Leonardo most definitely needs to be in the party, with his swell weapon.

Kirin
08-28-2008, 06:02 AM
Yeah, it's obvious who's coming in first here, so my votes for the *second* optional memeber are still waher-woman and Lorelai.

TheSL
08-28-2008, 07:01 AM
But a vote for Gon is a vote for puppy-abuse. You don't... HATE PUPPIES, do you?

I thought it was a vote for puppies to abuse things?

Meditative_Zebra
08-29-2008, 12:33 AM
Brick, if you're just yearning for a lousy character to put in your party then I vote for Mina. Maybe she can go en pointe and distract your enemies into allowing everyone else to bludgeon them to death.

Octopus Prime
08-29-2008, 07:24 AM
I just felt like chiming this in, and I know I'm probably about a dozen pages late in mentioning it it, but:

Like many others I didn't realize that the Soul Eater only became more powerful when someone close to McDohl died, I just thought it became more powerful when something dramatic happened in the story.

This, despite the fact that it's called the SOUL EATER rune.

Brickroad
08-29-2008, 07:46 PM
With that whole pesky "Teo McDohl" problem taken care of, it looks as though the Liberation Army has the Imperials on the run. Lots of tiny rebel factions are starting to pop up all over the place, and the Imperials have had to spread their numbers pretty thin to deal with the issue. Lepant therefore suggests we begin uniting these rebels underneath the Liberation Army's banner. And what better way to do that than with another decisive military victory? Let's see what we have on tap.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord001.jpg
Perfect.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord002.jpg
○∆□☆ gives the order to advance and all the troops dress up in their fanciest gear to put on a good show down at the Fortress of Lorimar. I'm excited!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord003.jpg
...except, when we get there, nobody's home. Seriously, ○∆□☆ knocked like all morning. "Helloooo? Imperials? Come out and get some death! We're here to Liberate the crap out of you guys." But no answer. Either the Imperials are screwing with us, or something else is amiss.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord004.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord005.jpg
Kasumi vaults himself over the fortress wall. Show off.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord006.jpg
With no imperials to pick on, the day looks to be pretty much shot. Still, the gang decides to split up and take a look around just in case they're only hiding or something.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord007.jpg
Eugh, pretty gruesome. Either the Imperials were busy digging their own graves (you know, to save us the trouble) then decided running away would be a more useful tactic, or somebody's been collecting corpses for his own nefarious purposes.

I'm sure it's the first thing. Nothing to worry about.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord008.jpg
Mathiu sends ○∆□☆ out to collect some info on what's been going on in the Lorimar region. Viktor and Cleo decide to muscle in because, apparently, only wanton carnage can quell the demons within their tragic, tortured souls. That leaves three empty slots, which I'll fill up off the voting list when the time is right*.

*Note: the time is not yet right.

Brickroad
08-29-2008, 07:48 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord009.jpg
Hanging out in the cemetary is Kirke the executioner. Since it doesn't look like business is booming around here anymore, ○∆□☆ offers him a job. Surely we've got a few people back at Eureka's Castle we can make shorter at the neck, right?

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/kirke.gif078/108: Kirke
Hmm... he's a combat character, that much I know, but I can't say he's ever made his way into my party. As a bit of story fluff, he apparently hooks up with Lorelai back at the castle for some offscreen romancin' and, when she shows up in Suikoden 2 she is carrying his weapon: a scythe named Death.

Countdown to Quincy: 2 Stars of Destiny!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord010.jpg
Here's a map of the Lorimar region: just three locations of note. The double dots ○∆□☆ is standing next to are, of course, the entrances to the Fortress. South of him is the Warrior's Village (our next stop). Far west of the village is Qlon Temple, the monastery inexplicably named after an 11-year-old boy, and far south is some guy's castle. Opposite the river you can see Soniere Prison and Rikon, and Liukan's hovel is way down south along the banks.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord011.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord012.jpg
No sooner do we step foot in Warrior's Village to we walk smack into a lover's quarrel. Except, uh, I think in this case I'd have to go with the guy who doesn't want his girlfriend to be eaten. (Or maybe that's what they're fighting about in the first place -- hey-o!)

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord013.jpg
Actually, no, it turns out that this Neclord guy is the not-so-friendly local vampire who demands fresh girls to be delivered to his castle as brides/h'our dourves. Zorak here, whose eye looks to have exploded and is currently leaking all over his face, understandably doesn't want his hapless daughter to be married off to the loathsome undead and believes locking her up in a log cabin is going to keep the vampire at bay.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord014.jpg
Suddenly Viktor flips the fluck out! He hears the name "Neclord" and goes ABSOLUTELY NUTS, demanding all the information he can get.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord015.jpg
Viktor is no stranger to young Hix who... uh... apparently climbed up the wall and watched us fight Milich back in the day. Hix's deal is, he's kind of a pansy, so I have to wonder if he'd still mention this if Milich were in my group. "Wow, bear-man! I totally watched you kick Milich's ass when-- oh, oh my god, sir I didn't see you standing there sorry sir please don't pollenate me sir."

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord016.jpg
Zorak invites us over for dinner and, as we all know, the game won't continue until we accept. First though, we've to go see some guys about some things.

Brickroad
08-29-2008, 07:49 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord017.jpg
Window wears a top hat, a bowtie, and is apparently a mime of some kind. Gee, I wonder why he doesn't really fit in here at the Warrior's Village. Like Melodye, he won't sign up until we bring him a unique rune; unlike Melodye, the rune he wants is actually pretty deviously hidden, and not laying out in plain sight. In any case we can't get at it yet, so moving on.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord018.jpg
Yep, time to get our next blacksmith already. At the moment the three spare slots in my team are filled up with Maas, Meese and Mose because, otherwise, Moose wouldn't want to be seen with us. Because, you know, the best way to convince a blacksmith you need his services are to show him that you've already got an abundance of fucking blacksmiths on hand.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/moose.gif079/108: Moose
Moose is as good as it gets if you suck like I did and screw yourself out of being able to get the final blacksmith. "Screwed" in this case actually isn't too bad, since he can bring our weapons all the way up to L15; just one level shy of their maximum potential.

Countdown to Quincy: 1 Star of Destiny!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord019.jpg
It's our old pal Marco, the walking ATM! What's up, buddy? Somehow it made its way from Rockland all the way out here to Warrior's Village. Say, let's see if ○∆□☆'s old PIN still works!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord020.jpg
Yep, still good! After a quick withdrawal at the First National Bank of Marco, we decide to just go ahead and install it in Eureka's Castle for easy access.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/marco.gif080/108: Marco
The ol' ATM sets up shop in the castle, allowing us to play the cup game whenever we want. This would actually be an insanely great source of infinite bits except, you know, Gaspar is in the same castle, so...

Countdown to Quincy: 0 Stars of Destiny!
Oh man you guys! I'm excited! Are you excited?

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord021.jpg
Finally we-- wait, what? What!?

Um, did I miscount somewhere? I should have exactly 80 stars. I... man, I hope I didn't screw up somewhere. I'll just assume Quincy is a goddamn liar and leave him here for now. Yes, apparently Quincy is male. Coulda fooled me!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord022.jpg
Not to worry, I have a trick up my sleeve. First a quick trip back to Eureka's Castle to stock up on flower seeds...

Brickroad
08-29-2008, 07:51 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord023.jpg
Quick field trip over to Qlon Temple. Will Hugo the be-glasses-ed librarian be just the key Quincy needs to see we're going to win this war? No, no, apparently he's misplaced some damn book and, instead of looking for it, is putting his time to good use moping.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord024.jpg
How about you, blind-martial-arts-guy Morgan? Want to join the Liberation Army?

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/morgan.gif081/108: Morgan
There's no blind status effect in Suikoden. The functional equivalent is having a bucket dropped on your head. I'm not sure whether or not that affects Morgan, who is completely blind anyway. In battle he's pretty much just a palette swap of Pahn, which hey, is totally workable in any group. Two other interesting morsels about Morgan: first, he has what is my favorite line in the game when you speak to him at the castle. Second, his "I was born blind!" story was retconned in Suiko5 where it's revealed he was a gladiator in a country across the world whose eyes had to be put out because he was too good. Brutal.

Countdown to Quincy: -1 Stars of Destiny!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord025.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord026.jpg
Bringing flower seeds to Zen is exactly the incentive he needs to leave his flowers and come along with us. I'll be honest though, I'm just recruiting him for his great hat.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/zen.gif082/108: Zen
Zen... uh... has no function at all that I'm aware of. He can't be put in the party. He's just a talkin'-to Star of Destiny.

Countdown to Quincy: -2 Stars of Destiny!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord027.jpg
Huzzah! That... that's pretty anti-climactic actually. I was kind of expecting fireworks and a parade or something. Hrm.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/quincy.gif083/108: Quincy
After all that buildup I... I, uh, have never used Quincy. I'm not sure I want to! I'm also not entirely convinced he isn't a chick.

Hey peanut gallery!
Next up, SUPER LONG STORY POST and another dungeon. Last call to get votes in before I play the next stage of the game tomorrow. I'm pretty sure we don't need any more votes for GIANT WOMAN seeing as how she's already out in the lead by aproximately the population of Finland.

Here's your master list (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=224080&postcount=2).

Kishi
08-29-2008, 08:05 PM
http://animeanonymous.com/stash/suiko/moose.gif079/108: Moose

Oh, hell. I was kidding (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?p=244383#post244383)!

Nobuyuki
08-29-2008, 08:14 PM
Wow, I never realized how emo Moose is. Anyway, I vote for Alen without Grenseal.

Gredlen
08-30-2008, 01:38 AM
http://animeanonymous.com/stash/suiko/neclord009.jpg
You know, I've remembered every single character up until now. But I don't remember this guy and I know I got all 108 when I played. Weird.

http://animeanonymous.com/stash/suiko/neclord013.jpg
Zorak is so badass his eyepatch has scars.

Rosencrantz
08-30-2008, 02:13 AM
Zorak always reminded me, very vaguely, of my music teacher from 5th-8th grades. In any case - scars aside - he's never looked remotely tough or threatening to me.

Kishi
08-30-2008, 02:17 AM
Just look at his timid posture. I bet he got those scars from a tragic mishap with a stapler.

spineshark
08-30-2008, 02:27 AM
I want more freaky-person Quincy!

Mazian
08-30-2008, 03:31 AM
http://animeanonymous.com/stash/suiko/neclord013.jpg
Is Neclord his name instead of his title? I'm finding it hard to fear anyone whose name sounds like a gamefaqs forum account.

Elfir
08-30-2008, 03:52 AM
Wow I did not remember Zorak having a portrait. That's so weird.

Makkara
08-30-2008, 06:04 AM
You gotta use Quincy now, after making such a big hullabaloo about him.

Octopus Prime
08-30-2008, 08:52 AM
I always considered Neclord to just barely edge out XDeath and BadBad for "Worst RPG villain names possible".

Darklord from Final Fantasy Adventure/Sword of Mana is a close runner-up.

SlimJimm
08-30-2008, 10:25 AM
Zorak???

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/3387/neclordnonotreallyfx5.jpg

estragon
08-30-2008, 10:47 AM
Zorak???

The dialogue box was absolutely perfect for that.

Thank you.

PapillonReel
08-30-2008, 11:04 AM
You gotta use Quincy now, after making such a big hullabaloo about him.

This.

Brickroad
08-30-2008, 01:21 PM
Zorak???

I love you most of all, scarecrow!

Pooch
08-30-2008, 02:02 PM
Along the lines of Zorak...

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m70/sgt_tempow/quincy01.jpg

I couldn't have been the only one thinking this, right? I'm not that old, am I?

...Am I?

Also, searching for pictures of Quincy, M.E. on Google image search turned up naked ladies. Why?

Kishi
08-30-2008, 02:06 PM
I always considered Neclord to just barely edge out XDeath and BadBad for "Worst RPG villain names possible".

Darklord from Final Fantasy Adventure/Sword of Mana is a close runner-up.

I can forgive Neclord on the grounds that it's a sort-of-clever pun in Japanese.

Nekuro = Necro
Ro-do = Lord

Nekuro-do

SlimJimm
08-30-2008, 04:36 PM
I couldn't have been the only one thinking this, right? I'm not that old, am I?

...Am I?

Yes you are. Whos Quincy ME?

Pooch
08-30-2008, 05:06 PM
Quincy, M.E. was a crime drama starring Jack Klugman that aired during the late '70s and early '80s. It was about a medical examiner who lived on a houseboat who solved murders.

mopinks
08-30-2008, 05:11 PM
Also, searching for pictures of Quincy, M.E. on Google image search turned up naked ladies. Why?

were... were they dead naked ladies? because that's the only way it makes sense.

Pooch
08-30-2008, 05:14 PM
were... were they dead naked ladies? because that's the only way it makes sense.

No, it was some woman seated underneath a tree or something. And it's even more bizarre because I had SafeSearch enabled.

Brickroad
08-31-2008, 03:28 AM
I dunno guys. Evil fungus ate my babysitter... I've been railroaded into leading an army and assuming all the responsibilities that come along with, I have a rune that eats souls chillin' out on my right hand, and I had to murder my own father. I... I don't know if I can go on. This is some seriously heavy stuff.

...

I need a pep talk.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord028.jpg
Wow! Thanks, Morgan! That sacchrine pap really hits the spot! I... I feel like I can continue now. I feel like I can let my own light shine. We can do it, gang! We can do it... together!

The Neclord Scenario
I've tallied the votes, and it looks like you guys want to see Giant Woman, Laundry Girl and Kamandol "The Righteous Monocle" Jabar-Jackson throw down. No problem! But first, we need to do some serious sharpening. Sarah and Kamandol's weapons have never seen a blacksmith, and Cleo hasn't been in the party since roughly the dawn of time. Even ○∆□☆ can benefit from three more levels thanks to having recently recruited Moose. And now you're about to see just how fast money goes in Suikoden.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord029.jpg
Note: no work done yet. None.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord030.jpg
...and this is what I look like at about the halfway point. This is having maxed out Viktor and Ronnie's weapons, and brought Sarahs' up to L13. One trip to Gaspar later...

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord031.jpg
...and I'm at max again. But even so...

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord032.jpg
...look where I am when I've got everyone topped off. If my math is right, my total investment just for weapon sharpening for just this one party is 1,435,000 bits.

That's ONE POINT FOUR MILLION.

But we're not done yet!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord033.jpg
New equipment for everyone! ...except I don't have enough. A second trip to Gaspar is required to deck everyone out.

Now, some extreme vault micromanagement might alleviate this somewhat, but not as much as you might think. I can't sell stuff from the vault, and I can only carry as many items as there are empty spaces in my inventory, so selling all the extraneous junk I've been accumulating would take an enormous amount of time. What's more, it might add up to 10% of what I needed to spend. Even outfitting my peeps in used gear isn't a great option since visiting Warrior's Village added a whole new collection of stuff to Chapman's shop; everyone needs an upgrade, not just the newbies.

There's a couple ways you could look at this. First, you might surmise that Konami didn't know how utterly broken Gaspar was, and intended you to go through the game with constantly suboptimal gear. Another is that they added Gaspar purposely to be abused, knowing the sheer amount of money that would be required to outfit 70+ player characters. I tend to believe the latter for two reasons:

1) The former is really only possible if the player sticks to a small rotation of characters, and even those characters would always be well under the power level they could be with infinite money. I'm betting Konami wanted people to use a large amount of characters and experiment with lots of different combinations.

2) Every Suikoden game has a trick or two to pile up your money very quickly. Some are a little more esoteric than others; Suiko2 requires you to do some homework, Suiko3 requires save slot abuse and power cycles, Suiko5 requires a specific set of equipment. The answer to your money issues is never to just go out and kill monsters though. (Even in Suiko4 where the answer is to go out and kill monsters, you can go kill a specific monster with a certain set of runes and accessories to achieve the same effect.)

tl;dr Thank the good damn lord for Gaspar.

Brickroad
08-31-2008, 03:32 AM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord034.jpg
Returning to Warrior's Village, Zorak fills gives us the 4-1-1 on Neclord. Windy apparently set him up as a general (perhaps to replace Kwanda or Milich) and sent him down into the Lorimar region to keep the folks in line. However, Neclord zombified his own troops, built a castle nearby and started wrecking up the joint. Shortly after that he began demanding all the local villages start sending him a steady stream of girls to sex up/feast on. All but the Warrior's Village acquiesced, them being a proud people who... actually, I'll let Zorak tell it.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord035.jpg
...uh, on the other hand, maybe I won't. Zorak's thing is he loves launching into long-ass stories. He actually goes on for about fifteen text boxes here, detailing the founding of the Warrior's Village and blah blah blah yackity-schmackity. It's not pertinent to the story (although it's an interesting bit of Suiko lore), so I'll spare you.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord036.jpg
Cleo, however, snarks the poor meandering bastard. Actually, she snarks just about everyone by the time this scenario is over. She wasn't kidding when she said she was on edge and needed to BUST SUM HEDZ. Zorak offers to put us up for the night, and we know what that means...

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord037.jpg
...cue heartfelt NPC chitchat! Tengaar doesn't have time for sappy nonsense, she just lets us know how disinterested she is in the whole situation (you know, the one where a vampire wants to shag her rotten and then suck all her blood out) and runs off.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord038.jpg
Meanwhile, Hix is seeing how far he can shove his foot into his throat before Cleo shoves the other one up his ass so they meet somewhere in the vicinity of his stomach. Actually, rather than lecture Hix on misogyny Cleo gives him a pep talk, claiming she fights because she has things to fight for. We know this is a damn lie and she's fighting because she wants to forget that her new boss just killed her old boss, but it makes Hix feel better.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord039.jpg
"...who were turned into zombies by him, eating each other."

Hmm... splitting that up didn't really get the desired effect. Let's try this:

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/viktor.gif
When I returned to my village, I saw members of my own family, who were turned into zombies by [Neclord], eating each other.

eating each other

eating each other

HOLY BALONEY McGEE. No wonder Viktor is so pissy at Neclord.

To really drive this point home: in Suiko2 we learn that Viktor had to (re)kill the undead remains of everyone he ever knew and loved and then bury them himself. Neclord tries to taunt him in that game by raising a zombie version of his childhood sweetheart, and he responds by stepping forward and hacking her head off. Viktor's kind of a big oaf, but he's an absolute motherfucker when it comes to the undead. Honestly, I'm surprised Konami hasn't slipped a Viktor reference into any of the Castlevania games. Like, have a bear-man monster that drops a unique two-handed sword 0.03% of the time.

Brickroad
08-31-2008, 03:33 AM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord041.jpg
Speak of the devil!

No, literally, Neclord is the devil.

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Hix is presented as a little nancy-boy, but you gotta hand it to him; he's the first person who steps up with a potshot at Neclord. He stops just shy of actually rushing forth to attack, obviously.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord044.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord045.jpg
That's a job for Zorak, Random NPC #812, Random NPC #894 and Random NPC #925!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord046.jpg
They fail rather quickly, of course, which leaves him to us.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord047.jpg
This should be no problem. Let's do it, Liberation Army!

Brickroad
08-31-2008, 03:34 AM
Just to test the waters a bit, let's send everyone out to attack.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord048.jpg
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Huh. Six whiffs in a row. Either I hit a string of astronomically poor dice rolls, or something fishy is going on here...

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord054.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord055.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord056.jpg
Uh, oh crap. Crap.

(Fun fact: the screen is dark here because my screenshot finger is a lazy bitch and caught this scene as it was fading out.)

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord057.jpg

Brickroad
08-31-2008, 03:36 AM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord058.jpg
Well, the best of Warrior's Village couldn't handle him, and the best of the Liberation Army couldn't handle him... I guess that just leaves Hix.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord059.jpg
Fortunately, even though Hix's hapless girlfriend is a spoiled brat she sets the limit of people she'll let die horribly for her sake at nine.

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As Neclord makes off with his prize, Hix vows to be her white knight. He then sets to the task of dragging all the only-mostly-dead people laying around back to Zorak's house.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord061.jpg
When ○∆□☆ finally comes to (and for some damn reason he's always the last to come to, I mean crap even Bill Nye and the laundry girl woke up before he did) Viktor points out that regular weapons are useless against Neclord. Which, uh, might have been good information to have before he went charging into battle. So, yeah, okay, Viktor has more zeal than sense. We'll forgive him. They decide to brave another of Zorak's boring stories to see if he has any ideas.

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After forcing him to get to the point, Zorak gives us probably the least useful information ever. This is par for the course for a typical RPG, of course, but Suikoden ain't the typical RPG; Viktor just has to hang a lamp shade on it:

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord063.jpg
There's nothing for it though; if anyone has a clue as to how we can kill this vampire, they'll surely be hanging out at the only other blinking dot on the map. So let's head out that way.

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Here's ○∆□☆'s Hell spell in action. It kills all the monsters in the battle at what I very strongly believe to be 100% effectiveness. I'll be using up all his Hell charges to bring Kamandol and Sarah, who are somewhere in their 20s, up to speed so they can survive the upcoming dungeon.

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As soon as we arrive back at Qlon Temple an old bald man wearing a lei lectures us at great length about the 108 Stars of Destiny. This actually has quite a bit more importance than it might seem; not only is Fukien the only character in the series other than Leknaat to even mention the 108 Stars, he does so for a long time and in very specific detail. The reason this is interesting is because it's our only indication that mere mortals, and not just otherworldly magic women, are aware of the 108 Stars and their influence over the world.

A neat little tidbit here is that ○∆□☆'s "Star of Heavenly Guidance" (the Tenkai Star) is the star under which the other 107 gather. While this is usually a major leader of some kind, and therefore the protagonist of the game, it isn't always the case. In Suiko3, for example, the Tenkai Star is more or less the army's landlord; he serves as the focal point by providing a physical location for the rest of the characters to come together while a "lesser" star assumes the protagonist role.

Anyway, note Fukien's use of the inclusive "we" here. We know what that means...

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/fukien.gif084/108: Fukien
Fukien presumably joins the Liberation Army not because he believes in the cause or despises the Imperials, but because he understands the signifigance of the 108 Stars and his place within them. Gameplay-wise, he's the bearer of the sole Ressurection Rune, which is based around reviving dead party members. Given the abundance of healing magic I'll have here pretty soon, there's actually little or no use for such a rune. Whether or not he'd be good in the party, then, will be determined by whether or not his rune is removable, and whether or not he's got high enough spell charges and MAG to make use of a more offensive one.

Brickroad
08-31-2008, 03:39 AM
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Fukien does indeed have a way to take on Neclord. Before he sets off for Eureka's Castle he shows us to a cave back behind Qlon Temple. A few fights in ○∆□☆ is out of Hell charges, so it's time to Free Will. Before that, though, I'm just burning to know what Ronnie Bell's Hate Rune does...

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord068.jpg
HA-DO-KEN!

No, seriously, that is awesome. I mean, it's just a typical boring ol' attack rune, but man, yeah, pretty awesome. At least it doesn't unbalance her.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord069.jpg
The Qlon Caves present OOLDES of cool treasure, the first of which is this Flowing Crystal. Flowing is Water++, the best healing rune in the game. This will be crucial later on, since starting with Neclord and going forward all the bosses have pretty strong attacks that can wipe an unprepared party in just a couple rounds.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord070.jpg
Like any good cave worth its salt, we also have secret passages!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord071.jpg
We'll need this when we get back to Warrior's Village to recruit ol' Top Hat.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord072.jpg
More light reading for the Liberation's as-yet-nonexistant library.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord073.jpg
Here's a shot of Kamandol whacking Rock Johnson with his wrench. This is actually pretty respectable damage, just a hair under what Ronnie is doing with a regular attack. This really doesn't surprise me; ATK really ramps up as you get into Moose-level weapons. No matter who you guys give me from here on out, the days where I lamented at screenshots of 1s and 3s are well behind me.

Sarah, of course, is doing just fine on the back row. She's essentially just a weaker version of Cleo, and really anybody with a L15 weapon on the back line is going to pull their weight with very little difficulty.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord074.jpg
Yep, even deep in the caves we find recruitable peoples. We'll have to come back for Crowley once the castle is in its fourth and final phase, which typically happens after the end of the next scenario.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord075.jpg
This is the scroll Hugo was looking for. I don't know how the heck he lost it way down in the caves, but there you go.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord076.jpg
Eventually we find the hidden secret weapon: the Star Dragon Sword. As soon as we wake him up, he naturally sucks us into a time vortex.

tl;dr warning: The next few posts are super-boring plot stuff where I don't get to kill anything. I spend more time beaming about Suiko-lore minutiae than I do making cock jokes, so if you don't care about any of that, just scroll down until you see a giant red X and you'll pick it up in time to see me recruit a couple more stars.

Brickroad
08-31-2008, 03:40 AM
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The gang finds themselves in some strange town with no cave or talking sword in sight. Cleo wastes no time blaming the situation on Viktor.

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TREASURE! Unfortunately, we can't get there from here. That must mean whatever's in that box is super-awesome.

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http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord081.jpg
Look, kid, it's true we used to break into people's houses/vaults and steal their stuff back when we was still small time, but we're the Liberation Army. We don't do that kind of stuff anymore. Unless you're talking about that box down by the cliff, because yeah, we're totally jacking that good shits.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord082.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord083.jpg
He did indeed. And yeah, that kid does look familiar...

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord084.jpg
Sheesh, these people keep a tight leash on their treasure boxes.

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When we catch up with Ted and his grandpa, we start to get the mystery cleared up: this village lives in constant fear of "that woman" and any and all outsiders are instantly pegged at being in her employ. As soon as we assure him that we are not in fact here at the whimsy of any "that woman" we are asked politely to leave, the implication being that we may be putting ourselves in danger simply by virtue of being here.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord087.jpg
Alas, it seems as though Grandpa's darkest fears were right on the money: "that woman" has found him and is calling him out. Looks like it's about to hit the fan...

I admit I was crossing my fingers that Ronnie Bell would have something to say to this, like "better that woman than giant woman, lady, you don't know how good you have it" but no such luck.

Brickroad
08-31-2008, 03:41 AM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord088.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord089.jpg
Cleo's just in it to sate her gargantuan bloodlust, remember?

As it happens, this is the Village of the Hidden Rune, a tiny town with no proper name which exists to safeguard the most cursed of runes: the Soul Eater. Windy and Gramps have apparently had run-ins in the past, but he managed to turn her away and eventually hide out here.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord090.jpg
Windy's desire to obtain the Soul Eater is so deep that not only is she hobknobbing with the vile likes of Neclord, but...

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord091.jpg
...with the infinitely worse demonic knight Yuber, as well. Unlike Neclord, though, who is a good little lackey, it's hard to keep Yuber under control and his style is more "murder everyone in sight, ask questions later maybe if we remember to do it" than Windy's more, er, diplomatic approach.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord092.jpg
As a last ditch move, Gramps decides to unleash the full power of the Soul Eater rather than relinquish it to Windy.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord093.jpg
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Brickroad
08-31-2008, 03:45 AM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord096.jpg
We know exactly where this is headed. Gramps is cornered; he knows he probably isn't long for this world, having just opened up his cursed rune and all, and he knows Windy is determined to and capable of hunting him down like a dog. His plan: pass the Soul Eater off to his next of kin, and then give himself up to Windy before she realizes the rune is beyond her grasp.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord097.jpg
Wow, looks a lot flashier than when ○∆□☆ inherited the rune, uh, 300 years from now.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord098.jpg
It's customary, after passing on the Soul Eater, to apologize profusely for the horrible fate you've bestowed on a person who is tentatively the closest person to you in the world.

Incidentially, this explains how Windy managed to catch wise to ○∆□☆ having the rune so quickly; she's been duped like that before.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord099.jpg
Gramps runs out to act as bait, and entrusts Ted's safety to us. We're going to try and escape out the back way...

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord100.jpg
...oh crap.

Okay, here's the skinny on Yuber. He is so intensely bad ass that you never even get to face him properly. He appears in the first three Suikoden games as a nebulous "evil black knight" who has an unquenchable thirst for carnage. The only reason he ever gives for joining in on the various conflicts of the Suikoverse is that he always jumps at the opportunity to kill as many people as he possibly can. The very moment it looks like whatever army he joined is going to be defeated, he loses interest and walks away. The implication is that if he ever were to fight the heroes face to face he would end them most unceremoniously. In fact, he does precisely that every time he pops up in Suiko3 until the huge climactic battle at the end of the game where he... loses interest and walks away. Suikoden Axiom #123: you simply do not kill Yuber.

That's actually the sum of our canonical knowledge of the character. The only two other pieces of information we ever get from the games is that he is being hunted by an equally mysterious dark knight (who may or may not be Yuber's equal in strength) named Pesmerga, and that the ability to summon Yuber forth is a secret closely guarded by certain members of the Silverberg line. You didn't believe me when I mentioned Leon Silverberg would do anything at all to win his wars? Well, now you have an idea.

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Cleo's newfound snarkiness runs out of gas here, as she responds in the only possible way to Yuber's threat. Most likely this was her second response, the first being to load up her pants with excrement.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord102.jpg
Fortunately Neclord of all people saves us from our gruesome fate. Exactly what control (if any) Windy has over Yuber and Neclord is never made clear; I mean, we know Yuber's along because he wants to drown the world in blood, but Neclord's agenda doesn't come into play. It's one of those little sub-stories that Suikoden never develops.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord103.jpg
Presumably, the most horrific trio of villains ever to walk the earth got a hold of him and... well, beyond that, you don't want to know.

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And thus ends Ted's origin story. From this point on, he wanders the world with a cursed rune, attempting to avoid close relations with people for fear of their souls being eaten, all the while being hunted down by a witch of unimaginable power and cruelty. It's no wonder he's such an emo sadsack when he shows up in Suiko4.

This scene really drives home that the Soul Eater is indeed a cursed rune. Look at it from ○∆□☆'s point of view: sure, he was paying attention when Ted told him this story back in Gregminster, but now he's actually seen it firsthand. Imagine the slow, creeping feeling of dread one might experience knowing that one's best friend was forced to wander the world for three hundred years in a state as close to isolation as possible and, what's more, knowing that same fate is in store for oneself? Even if ○∆□☆ beats the Imperials and topples the Empire, he's still got an eternity of anguish to look forward to. It's a wonder he doesn't give up right then and there.

In fact, Ted tries to do exactly that. In Suiko4 (which is set 150-ish years before Suiko1) the heroes meet up with an otherworldly demon of some sort who is collecting cursed runes. Captain Kidd (or whatever Suiok4's hero's name is supposed to be) has just such a rune, and is tagged by Ted, who has already relinquished his Soul Eater. Of course you-the-player refuse to give up your own, showing Ted the tenacity of humanity (or something) and he joins you in slaying the demon-thing and willingly takes back his own curse. Also Leknaat shows up and scolds him or whatever.

Brickroad
08-31-2008, 03:47 AM
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Why yes it was! How convenient. But first we have some awesome treasure boxes to open!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord108.jpg
Not... not so much awesome as useless. I thought only Pahn could equip these, and he already has one so what's the point, but someone upthread pointed out Morgan can use them too. Even if that's true, I already have like three of them I got from monster drops. You can't even sell the bitches. What's more, I cannot even begin to speculate what signifigance there is to finding a Boar Crystal here, in this place, in this story sequence.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord109.jpg
This one is slightly more useful; when equipped, it causes any battles you could Let Go to stop appearing. It's good in the endgame where you have to re-visit some long, tedious dungeons to score recruits or treasure, as you can just zip in and out without even having to waste those few precious seconds to click Let Go or Free Will.

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I was going to "Hey peanut gallery!" this and end the update here, but honestly it's a "but thou must!" situation and I think I've played that fake-out card enough already in this LP. Suffice it to say that Ted can't come with you no matter what you pick.

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Cleo theorizes it has something to do with destiny being unchangeable, or whatever, which contradicts what we heard earlier in the game when Leknaat told us that it's not. Maybe Cleo didn't get the memo.

If you decide not to take Ted along, Cleo simply explains that his place is here and he's better off living in solitude for 300 years. He seems to take it all in stride, but man, you just know that when he joined the McDohl household 300 years later it took a massive amount of willpower to not murder her while she slept for being such a bitch to him when he was a little kid.

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The Star Dragon Sword turns out to be a sarcastic talking vampire-killer. He and Viktor get in a lot of good quality back-and-forth, as if Viktor needed another character dedicated to picking on him at every available opportunity.

Brickroad
08-31-2008, 03:53 AM
X
Okay guys, the boring plot-slog is behind us now. Thanks for being patient with me.

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Well, because it's smarter than you for one thing, Viktor.

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Viktor picking up the Star Dragon Sword is one of the few (only?) instances in the series where a character's weapon changes outside of leveling up at the blacksmith. Of course the only way to actually see "Star Dragon Sword" on his Strength screen is to not have sharpened his weapon up past like L5, which given how often he insists on tagging along is a virtual impossiblity.

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One Escape Talisman later and we're back outside in Qlon. Fukien has long since abandoned us, leaving Hugo alone to hold down the fort. As soon as we deliver this War Scroll, though, he packs up and leaves for Eureka's Castle too. That's right! The Liberation Army has systematically depopulated the entirety of Qlon Temple!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/hugo.gif085/108: Hugo
Ol' coke-bottle-glasses here is our librarian. His job is to take care of all those Old Books we've been picking up. It's a damn shame we can't put him in the party, though, since he must be pretty freaktardedly strong if he managed to drop the War Scroll at the bottom of that long-ass cave while out for a stroll.

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Hey, look! The Qlon Cave's level plateau is in the low-40s, which means we can meet the level requirements for a couple new recruits!

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First we'll hop on the Viki Express back to Teien and recruit Eikei.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/eikei.gif086/108: Eikei
He's a martial artist of some calibur, I guess, but that's not why Eikei is great. He comes with the Double-beat Rune, which gives him two attacks per round, but that's not why he's great either. The reason he's so great is we can yank that rune off and give it to whomever we like! You just know I'll be soldering that bad boy right onto Viktor's hand and let him go to town on as many enemy's as he cares to annihilate.

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Next we'll drop Sarah in favor of Kirkis, who will need to be powered up a bit...

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Four battles in the Qlon Caves is sufficient to boost him up to L40.

Brickroad
08-31-2008, 03:55 AM
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Now that he's a wisened and experienced L40 grandmaster rather than the frail L28 pissant he was exactly twelve seconds ago, Kirkis gives the same "let's all be happy and nice and rainbows" speech he gave to everyone who would listen back in the Great Forest scenario.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord125.jpg
The difference is that this time Rubi actually listens!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/rubi.gif087/108: Rubi
Rubi's a personal favorite, and has been a mainstay in my final party in practically every playthrough since I figured out the requirements to recruit him. Don't quote me on this, but I think he's got the highest ATK of all the L-range characters, which is useful especially in the endgame when you can (at most) bring one S-range character with you into the last dungeon.

So now we not only have what we need to take on Neclord, but have recruited a couple of really really bald dudes and learned the achingly painful truths of Ted's past, to boot. So:

Hey peanut gallery!
It's time to storm Neclord's castle. Viktor and Cleo aren't planning on dropping out any time soon, and what's more, Hix will beg me to tag along. He's S-range, so I've only got one front-line slot open. If you're not sure who's S-range and who isn't, that's okay; worst-case scenario I can just make Hix sit on the back line and Do Nothing for the duration of our quest to rescue his girlfriend.

Incidentially, right now first place in the votes is a five-way tie by my reckoning: Blackman, Valeria, Quincy, Stallion and Leonardo. Do me a favor and bust this up a little bit maybe? Or hell just everyone vote for Ronnie Bell again, and I'll take Neclord down with qcf+punch*.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord126.jpg
You sound like a page from a self-help book. PREPARE YOURSELF!

(Master list (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=224080&postcount=2).)

*Alternate ending to this joke: "I'll take Neclord down with shivam's avatar."

mr_bungle700
08-31-2008, 04:53 AM
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4908/ronniebellfy6.jpg

<3 <3 <3

http://animeanonymous.com/stash/suiko/neclord068.jpg

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3

...Huh, what now? Votes for party members?

I dunno, how about that Ronnie Bell lady?

She seems nice.

I guess we could see what Quincy can do too.

Kishi
08-31-2008, 05:14 AM
Rowdy Ronnie Bell.

Jeanie
08-31-2008, 05:49 AM
Yeah, so all the screenshots aren't loading for me. I'll check back later.

Coinspinner
08-31-2008, 11:42 AM
Yeah, so all the screenshots aren't loading for me. I'll check back later.

Same here.

Brickroad
08-31-2008, 12:28 PM
Man me too, seriously Brickroad get on the ball, your LP is going STRAIGHT IN THE TOILET.

But yeah sorry everyone, my bad probably. I'll see if I can't get 'er workin' again.

Elfir
08-31-2008, 03:55 PM
I liked the Giant Woman from Suikoden 2. I'm not sure there's much of any difference between her and Ronnie Bell other than recruiting method. The one from Suikoden 2 only joins if you have a party full of chicks.

Whatever the party, I vote for no excess S-rangers. No point in putting them in the party if they're not actually going to be used.

Lots of people say Tengaar's good. I don't know. I found her to be a little bitch and avoided using her.

Let's try Eyepatch Elf. I assume he's L-range like the rest of them.

Coinspinner
08-31-2008, 07:38 PM
Ronnie Bell. And... uh... Quincy.

---

Oh crap, I went looking for my copy of Suikoden and didn't find it. I think I may have loaned it to this friend of mine who generally loses or scratches stuff he borrows. And now that I think of it, both his first and last name are used by Suikoden characters...

mopinks
08-31-2008, 07:43 PM
I liked the Giant Woman from Suikoden 2. I'm not sure there's much of any difference between her and Ronnie Bell other than recruiting method. The one from Suikoden 2 only joins if you have a party full of chicks.

hot

Kishi
08-31-2008, 07:55 PM
Oh crap, I went looking for my copy of Suikoden and didn't find it. I think I may have loaned it to this friend of mine who generally loses or scratches stuff he borrows. And now that I think of it, both his first and last name are used by Suikoden characters...

Viktor Flik?

(Vik Flik to his friends.)

dwolfe
08-31-2008, 11:36 PM
So apparently there's also a Suikoden Let's Play on the Penny Arcade forums, and I glanced at it*...and man, it's not 1/100th as fun as this one. Well played, my friend :)

I know I cheated on you, but I just never knew how good I had it till now, please take me back!

Brickroad
08-31-2008, 11:51 PM
I know I cheated on you, but I just never knew how good I had it till now, please take me back!

With that avatar, how could I not!

estragon
09-01-2008, 12:27 AM
burning[/i] to know what Ronnie Bell's Hate Rune does...

http://animeanonymous.com/stash/suiko/neclord068.jpg
HA-DO-KEN!

No, seriously, that is awesome.

I told you guys how awesome her hadoken move was way upthread, but no one seemed to notice.

Now you all know the beauty of Giant Woman Ronnie Bell.

Brickroad
09-01-2008, 11:48 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord127.jpg
In most RPGs, NPCs would content themselves letting the heroes run off and fix all their problems for them. Not Suikoden. Here we see Zorak and the rest of Warrior's Village gearing up for an assault on Neclord's Castle, apparently sick to hell of waiting for ○∆□☆ and his cronies to finish up their errands. You go on ahead, Jones, I'll be right behind you after I recruit your mime.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord128.jpg
Window might not be much of a warrior, but he's a bloodhound when it comes to Window Runes. Sniffing out the one ○∆□☆ is carrying, he all but begs for it. ○∆□☆ has no use for the thing so he does the nice-guy thing and coughs it up.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/window.gif088/108: Window
Here's a true story: back in high school I had a personal webpage upon which I ranted at length about video games and cartoons. On the index (well, not the index, but the page-after-the-index because all websites had splash pages in those days because obviously the more clicks you had to endure to get to the content the better that content was guaranteed to be) was a list of links to all the various sections, each with its own icon. Like, the "video games" section was a moogle or whatever. The "about Brickroad" section was Window because I very purposely tried to think of the absolute dorkiest character I'd ever seen in any game ever to kind of represent myself. Anyway, Window's job is to fluck around with what my message and menu windows look like; we'll visit him after the world's down one vampire and see how that works.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord129.jpg
After sending Window to Eureka's Castle we hoof it on over to Neclord's Castle. Either the vampire's sheer evilness is tangible enough to warp the area around his castle and discolor the grass, or some sprite artist at Konami got lazy and didn't bother to look up how to utilize transparent pixels.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord130.jpg
Zorak gives a rousing speech to the eight men he brought with him.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord131.jpg
"...no. No, my proud warriors. God damn it, how many times do I have to tell you. Do not scream "yaaaaay" after I point out how strong and brave and manly you all are. We're about to storm a castle crawling with the undead, not blow out the candles on a fucking birthday cake."

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord132.jpg
Neclord comes out to make it clear that only ○∆□☆ and his party are invited to the "wedding" ceremony. Shortly after his appearance one of Zorak's men attempts to rush the door, only to be electrocuted for his trouble. Oh, it's definitely a trap, but what can we do?

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord133.jpg
Hix arrives, desperate to help out. Kid's got spunk, god bless him. Zorak tries to disallow it, pointing out that Hix isn't yet a true warrior, and his sword is as yet nameless. After seeing Hix's determination, however, he changes his mind and "promotes" him right there on the spot.

Brickroad
09-01-2008, 11:49 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord135.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord136.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord137.jpg
Now Hix is a real warrior with a real named sword! And like it or not, he's in for the long haul through Neclord's castle.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/hix.gif089/108: Hix
Hix is very middle-of-the-road. He's an S-range attacker, which means he's already at a disadvantage considering the shortage of party slots. This actually is true to the game, though; he's got a lot more courage than practical strength. I guess I can respect that, but the thing I've always hated most about him is that his "thwack!" sound effect comes about a second after his sword-swing animation in combat. That drives me absolutely crazy.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord138.jpg
Of course we've gotta kick someone out to make room. Ta-ta, Monocle Man! Actually we're not going into the castle yet anyway; I promised I'd change up the party and, besides, Hix is in need of sharpening and gearing up.

Looks like Zorak's warriors aren't going to be doing us much good after all. Nonetheless, I'm sure they have some unique insight on the situation...?

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord139.jpg
Wait, what? Yuk yuk yuk?

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord140.jpg
Yuk?

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord141.jpg
Yuk yuk?

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord142.jpg
Ra ta... dude you broke it. This must be the Ross of the Warrior's Village Friends.

Brickroad
09-01-2008, 11:51 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord143.jpg
Quincy is heading up the votes this time, and as we can see he needs some work. (An impartial third party pulled Valeria out of a four-way-tie in second place.)

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord144.jpg
A couple fights in Qlon brings him up to speed. He looks... remarkably mediocre. He's got one L2 rune charge, and I'm planning to load him up with Mega Medicine and make him my healer in the upcoming Neclord fight, which is why I've given him a Flowing Rune.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord145.jpg
Double-beat is Viktor's bread and butter, but we have to give it to Hix for now. The exact why of it will be clear a bit later. Meanwhile, Viktor gets our Holy Rune and Cleo (who has a L4 charge to burn up) will rock the Lightning Rune.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord146.jpg
One benefit to Hix is that he is one of the Suikoden shield-using elite. Even though he's kind of a little punk, he's totally survivable on the front line thanks to this fact.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord147.jpg
Time to hit the dungeon! You'd better believe I'll be rocking the Soul Eater in here; between ○∆□☆'s L1 and L3 charges, he's got a lot of shots of insta-kill magic to burn through before I'll have to buckle down and actually fight anything in the dungeon.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord149.jpg
I had to pay 100 bits for this helpful tip, which turns out to be the solution to a puzzle later on. Zombie-man here actually sells a variety of tips scaling up in price to a whopping 25,000 bits if I so choose, but I can't imagine why anyone would want to waste their money on them. So I didn't.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord150.jpg
Here's Hell again. In ten seconds all five of those monsters will be gone.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord151.jpg
Each floor of Neclord's castle contains several of these one-screen rooms haphazardly strewn about, each with one treasure box inside. Judging from what looks to be feather mattresses on the ground here, this must be Neclord's love nest. This makes him the second villain we've come across to have one. What this says about villains in the Suikoverse... uh, I'll leave that as an excersize for the reader.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord152.jpg
More collectible junk here in Neclord's "Two Statues Just Standin' There" room.

Brickroad
09-01-2008, 11:52 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord153.jpg
Eventually ○∆□☆ runs out of Deadly Fingertips and Hell and I've got to start Free Willing my way through these fights. I grabbed this shot to show you guys how Quincy was stacking up. 182 damage isn't bad for a regular attack (it's about what Cleo's doing now), but Viktor, Valera and ○∆□☆ are hitting for well beyond that, upwards of 600+ on their criticals. Hix is hovering somewhere in the 240 range, but of course he's hitting two enemies per round.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord154.jpg
Here's the puzzle I mentioned earlier, and it's clear someone threw this together in about four minutes. When you approach a painting the game identifies its title and asks if you want to view it (I guess ○∆□☆ approaches paintings with his eyes closed). Viewing the right painting gives you a "click" message, and viewing all four paintings in the right order opens the way forward. Obviously the solution was already revealed to us by Zombie Hint Man back at the beginning of the dungeon. "Even in the forest" refers to this painting of a tree.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord155.jpg
"Not just at night" = early afternoon.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord156.jpg
"During your work" = downtrodden peasant class.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord157.jpg
"Praise the King" = picture of Neclord.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord158.jpg
...and there we go!

Okay, this puzzle had us stumped for a long time on our first pass through the game. Oh, we bought the clue - all four of them as I recall. We even left the dungeon and talked to Onil who had something to say about it. The reason we were stumped was because the mechanics of the puzzle didn't immediately click. If you "look" at a painting out of order you lose the ability to "look" at that painting until you leave the map and come back. Of course the first thing we did upon entering this room was examine and "look at" all four paintings, leaving us stuck. Then we immediately thought about the clue from earlier and tried the tree/afternoon/girl/king sequence which was now not working. I actually brute forced all twenty-four combinations in one visit, and was convinced the game was broken because I had systematically eliminated every possibility. It was my brother who, after playing with it for a while, discovered that the puzzle didn't reset until you left and came back and, once we got that out of the way, it was trivial to input the proper sequence and move onward.

Hmm... now that I think about it, my childhood is filled with examples of me being stuck and/or frustrated by some stupid fucking goddamn impossible game for way, way too long, and having it solved for my by my brother who was able to look at things with a cooler head. Maybe more of those stories will come up in future LPs.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord159.jpg
Eventually everyone is high enough level that most of the fights can be Let Go. This is a no-brainer; I've got infinite bits waiting for me back at Eureka's Castle and EXP is trivially easy to farm, so I might as well save myself the time. Interestingly the only battle in here I can't Let Go from is a single Hell Unicorn (the fiery blue horse thing); I've got to fight it if it pops up alone, but if it shows up with friends I'm free to Let Go my little heart out. This leads me to believe that there isn't an algorithm that checks the enemy's strength to yours, but that each individual enemy group is hard-coded to Let Go at a specific threshhold and some Konami programmer just wasn't paying attention. Another possibility, of course, is that enemies have levels like the heroes, and the game matches your average level against theirs. Hell Unicorn by itself is, say, L50; when it shows up with friends its L50 is dragged down by their L43s (or whatever).

Nerd-speculation aside, all this really means is that I'll be Let Go-ing every possible battle from here to the end of the game.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord160.jpg
Like all vampires, Neclord keeps his Earth Boots in the kitchen. A glass of wine, a stalk of brocolli and a single chicken wing sit on the table uneaten. Tempting, but if I remember Grandma's stories correctly, never touch a vampire's cuisine.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord161.jpg
Another collectible here in the "Chair and Two Pots" room.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord162.jpg
On towards the end of the dungeon we finally find some vampire-ish scenery: a bunch of open coffins. I think they missed the boat here; they should have populated these coffins with some of Neclord's previous victims to really drive home the point of poor Tengaar's fate should we decide to not hurry up and kill him.

Brickroad
09-01-2008, 11:53 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord163.jpg
Arriving in Neclord's room we find Tengaar already decked out in a wedding dress. He plays us a long, lilting wedding song on his giant pipe organ as the camera pans dramatically around the room, and then...

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord164.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord165.jpg
Yeah, well, don't sound too excited about it or anything.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord166.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord167.jpg
After Neclord taunts us for a bit, Viktor and Hix run forward and bare steel at him. Also revealed is the name of Hix's sword... a revelation that would be a little more dramatic had I not already been to the blacksmith and seen it on the menu screen. Point being, it's a Warrior's Village tradition to name your sword after your sweetheart. (Remember Flik, who is also from Warrior's Village, calls his sword "Odessa".)

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord168.jpg
Thus is Neclord's ulterior motive revealed: after all this time he's still getting his marching orders from Windy.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord169.jpg
Neclord is still impervious to everything we can throw at him until Viktor gives him a good solid whack with the Star Dragon Sword. Naturally Viktor almost always acts last in the round, meaning the Neclord fight starts with everyone Defending so as not to waste rune charges. Neclord's two main attacks deal lots of damage to the whole party, so the plan is to have Quincy use his Flowing Rune (of which he has only one useful charge) and Mega Medicine to keep my top fighters alive.

Brickroad
09-01-2008, 11:55 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord170.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord171.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord172.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord173.jpg
Crap Two rounds in and my healer is dead. He was holding the bulk of my Mega Medicine, but everyone else has at least one pack. Cleo blew her one really good rune charge on that high-end Lightning spell; from here on my heavy hitters are going to be Valeria (with her awesome Falcon Rune) and Viktor (since he crits so often).

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord174.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord175.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord176.jpg
It's hard fought, and Viktor eats dirt before it's over, but eventually Neclord goes down. The Neclord fight sees a humungous increase in difficulty over the previous boss fight which was all the way back in the Great Forest. From here out bosses (and there are a far number of them still to come) have a huge amount of HPs and focus on powerful area attacks. Healing and ressurection are not as practical in Suikoden as in other RPGs since rune charges are scarce and revival only comes in terms of Buddhas or Fukien's rune, so the best strategy becomes piling on as much damage as you can in the shortest possible amount of time.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord177.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord178.jpg
Neclord delivers his "I can't believe you killed me!" line, like a good card-carrying villain. As it happens the Star Dragon Sword is a True Rune itself. Though it pops up in virtually every game, we actually don't know much about what the Night Rune is outside of "it kills vampires" and "it has quite a lip on it".

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord179.jpg
Once everyone is sufficiently sick of Neclord's yapping, Viktor steps forward and chops him in half. This is pretty intensely satisfying.

Brickroad
09-01-2008, 11:56 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord180.jpg
More wooden cue-card delivery from Tengaar. Yay. Thank you so much for saving my life. I couldn't be happier. Please pass the cole slaw.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord181.jpg
I didn't include the long-ass exchange between Hix and Tengaar, but here's a summary: Tengaar thanks Hix for saving her, he sheepishly points out that it was Viktor who did all the saving, she won't have any of it and demands that he's her hero anyway. Then they go back and forth for a bit about how Hix is using her name for his sword without permission. Tengaar very much wears the pants in this relationship; she tends to bully Hix and drag him around (she does this literally in Suiko2), so Cleo of course has to get one last good snark in on the subject. She keeps the obvious follow-up observation of "I'm glad my girlfriend isn't that pushy!" to herself, the subtext being "wait am I a lesbian? I'm a lesbian, right?"

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord182.jpg
Be happy to, Viktor, just one last thing to do here...

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord183.jpg
Hell yeah! Rage is Fire++, so I'll be able to give this to one of my top-tier rune mages to absolutely wreck all kinds of monsters. Now we can leave!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord184.jpg
...and by "leave" I mean "walk all the way the hell back out" because Escape Talismans don't work in here for some stupid reason. No, seriously, there's no story sequences or anything on the way back. The only possible reason for not being able to warp out is because Konami wanted to dick me. So yeah, long walk back out to the front of the castle.

Brickroad
09-01-2008, 11:58 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord185.jpg
Zorak is so impressed we were able to rescue Tengaar that he throws in with the Liberation Army against the Imperials. This is kind of a Big Deal(tm) because historically Warrior's Village is not technically part of the Scarlet Moon Empire, but an autonomous state within its borders. I'm not sure if its neutrality is ever mentioned in the game (some nondescript NPC might say something about it), so maybe it's not 100% canon.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord186.jpg
Viktor, however, decides to take his leave of us for at least as long as it will take to return home and tell everyone that he finally managed to bag him a Neclord. He announces this suddenly and doesn't give you any time to de-equip his stuff, which is why I didn't give him his Double-beat Rune just yet. I'd like to make use of it over the course of the next two Viktor-free scenarios. (Similarly, make sure Viktor isn't carrying your Blinking Mirror or anything else you want to use. You know, in the off chance you didn't learn that lesson the hard way with the Gremio fiasco.)

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord188.jpg
Killing zombies and vampires has left Cleo's apparent lust for death and dismemberment sated, as made apparent by this being the first nice thing she says to anyone the entire adventure. And she says it to Viktor. Awesome! That means we can put her on the bench and forget she exists again.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord189.jpg
Which is exactly what I like to do at this point, because we get to recruit someone so, so much better!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/tengaar.gif090/108: Tengaar
Here she is, guys, my wonderful war goddess. The best description I can give of her is "long-range Flik" which is more or less right on the money. We didn't discover Tengaar until our third or fourth playthrough when we decided to develop some of the "joke" characters. We figured that since Hix was pretty blah, his girlfriend must really suck; so we sharpened her weapon on up to L16, leveled her up in the final dungeon and - lo and behold - she blew us away.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/neclord190.jpg
Don't let her middling ATK stat fool you; what you want to look at here are MGC and rune charges. Right here, right out of the box, she gets two L4 charges. Two! Do you have any idea what someone can do with two shots of L4 Rage magic? Her MGC, meanwhile, is higher than every other character in the game barring some of the pure dedicated-mage types (and she even beats some of them!).

She's awesome enough in Suiko1, but Suiko2 is where she really attains her war goddess status since she can equip more than one rune at a time, potentially tripling her versatility. Anyway, this is about the point int he game where I like to stop building parties based solely on ATK and start really jamming as many high-end runes as I can into my ranks. Flik and Tengaar have been teaming up for every party I've had the opportunity to build in Suiko1 and Suiko2 for years and years.

Hey pistachio gallery!
We're three scenarios away from the endgame blitz, and closing in on having every Star of Destiny recruited and accounted for. So I need more votes! Please everyone vote for Tengaar lots and lots of times. I've only got two empty slots in the next scenario (Flik and Humphrey are coming along, and we'll be joined by another characters in the course of the plot), so make 'em count.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/castle4.jpg

You might want to hold off on voting, actually, since topping 90 Stars brings Eureka's Castle into its final phase of construction! Now several characters become available to me, and they're all pretty interesting to check out. So next time on Let's Play Suikoden: the final Liberation Army recruitment drive!

(Master list (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=224080&postcount=2) has been updated, as usual.)

Mazian
09-02-2008, 12:15 AM
Yuk?
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/897/mryuk755020qz9.png

estragon
09-02-2008, 12:27 AM
wonderful war goddess[/b]. The best description I can give of her is "long-range Flik" which is more or less right on the money. We didn't discover Tengaar until our third or fourth playthrough when we decided to develop some of the "joke" characters. We figured that since Hix was pretty blah, his girlfriend must really suck; so we sharpened her weapon on up to L16, leveled her up in the final dungeon and - lo and behold - she blew us away.

It's basically a tragedy that it took so many playthroughs to discover how great Tengaar is. I'm pretty sure I put her in my party as soon as possible my first time through, and it was a revelation. She's even better in Suikoden 2, when she has dual attack with Hix good enough to keep both of them in the party.

SpoonyGundam
09-02-2008, 12:27 AM
I'll go ahead and vote for Tengaar for the rest of the game, since she's my war goddess too. Also, I called it weeks ago and you ignored it (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?p=244184#post244184). :(

I actually used an experience exploit in Suikoden II to raise her from level 30-40 something to 99 in one battle. It was neat.

shivam
09-02-2008, 12:33 AM
i've played suikoden countless times, and never used her. I guess i'll have to rectify that this time around. Also, you've inspired me to use milich, and he's pretty damned bad ass.

But i'm torn. I don't know how to play without clive and kage. I _need_ them.

Gredlen
09-02-2008, 12:34 AM
I tried giving that zombie in Neclord's castle 25,000 bits. He says something really stupid then gives it back to you.

Kishi
09-02-2008, 12:40 AM
You might want to hold off on voting, actually, since topping 90 Stars brings Eureka's Castle into its final phase of construction!

It still doesn't look anything like a damn castle.



Point being, it's a Warrior's Village tradition to name your sword after your sweetheart.

http://animeanonymous.com/stash/suiko/neclord190.jpg

"Tengaar, honey... Who's Ray?"

estragon
09-02-2008, 12:45 AM
i've played suikoden countless times, and never used her. I guess i'll have to rectify that this time around. Also, you've inspired me to use milich, and he's pretty damned bad ass.

But i'm torn. I don't know how to play without clive and kage. I _need_ them.

See, this is what I've been talking about in the past when I made fun of the characters you like in this game.

Why use Clive and Kage when you've got Ronnie Bell and Tengaar?

There's just too much fun in Suikoden to put Mysterious Man in Black #372 into your party.

I guess the beauty of this game is that I can have a fun and interesting party while you can have a generic RPG badass party and both can be good in battles, but the reasoning here confounds me.

Brickroad
09-02-2008, 12:45 AM
I'll go ahead and vote for Tengaar for the rest of the game, since she's my war goddess too. Also, I called it weeks ago and you ignored it (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?p=244184#post244184). :(

I ignored it because I didn't want to spoil it for the rest of the class. I bet you feel real smart though!

It still doesn't look anything like a damn castle.

That's because your standards are too high.

"Tengaar, honey... Who's Ray?"

Haha, a sound observation. However, Tengaar possesses a vagina and therefore doesn't have "warrior" status in Warrior's Village. That's why she uses a throwing knife and not a sword; swordplay is forbidden for women in their culture.

shivam
09-02-2008, 12:48 AM
well, i've always liked kage. he was a total bad ass, and great with magic and weapon. and Clive's story just got to me.

Suiko 2 is where i really started going out of normal characters. SHIRO!

this playthrough, though, i'm going out of my way to try out characters i've always ignored.

Rosencrantz
09-02-2008, 12:55 AM
i've played suikoden countless times, and never used her. I guess i'll have to rectify that this time around. Also, you've inspired me to use milich, and he's pretty damned bad ass.

I always use Milich late in the game, but I've never used Tengaar in all of my playthroughs (of either game). And seeing as I just finished replaying 1 and 2... damn, it's going to be a long time before I get around to doing it again.

SpoonyGundam
09-02-2008, 01:08 AM
I ignored it because I didn't want to spoil it for the rest of the class. I bet you feel real smart though!

I... I do!

Torgo
09-02-2008, 01:19 AM
I hope you realize how awesome Valeria is now, Brick.
Suiko 2 is where i really started going out of normal characters. SHIRO!
We've touched on this already, but YES.

Issun
09-02-2008, 01:31 AM
With Yuber being such a huge part of Suikoden III, I thought for sure Pesmerga would show up somewhere, and a huge faceoff would ensue. But there was no Pesmerga, and Yuber is a star of destiny and it was all very confusing.
So, Konami? Suikoden VI. Yuber/Pesmerga final battle. Please.

shivam
09-02-2008, 02:38 AM
ok, i just caught up with you, brick. guess i'll see how good tengaar really is.

Elfir
09-02-2008, 03:03 AM
Man, this "pick my party" shit really makes me want to volunteer for Suikoden 2 solely for that purpose! (And there's a big list of reasons why that'd be a Bad Idea.) I think we need a "pick my party and hear me whine" thread somewhere just for games like this.

As for you, Briktor, I choose the trophy wife and pink cotton candy. And I ANTI-VOTE Tengaar. She's a little bitch!

Brickroad
09-02-2008, 08:07 AM
Man, this "pick my party" shit really makes me want to volunteer for Suikoden 2 solely for that purpose! (And there's a big list of reasons why that'd be a Bad Idea.)

Because you know I'll stick you with Mukumuku constantly to get back at you?

As for you, Briktor

RAGE.

Elfir
09-02-2008, 08:36 AM
Because you know I'll stick you with Mukumuku constantly to get back at you?
Not only that, you'll make me get the other four squirrels and make me fight Luca Blight with nothing but SQUIRRELS.

Good times.

Brickroad
09-02-2008, 08:47 PM
Short update tonight guys because, well, THAT'S ALL YOU GET.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko528.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko529.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko530.jpg
Back at Eureka's Castle, Sanchez brings us up to speed on the remaining Imperial forces: Kasim Hazil's men in the north, men stationed at Shazarazade, and the Imperial Guard itself. (Interestingly, Ain Gide doesn't seem to have any men at the Fortress of Kwaba. Why haven't we just battered down the doors of that place again?)

Anyway, here's my feeling on it: 24,000 guys? Shit, ○∆□☆ busted just that many on his way through Milich's prison back in the day. This ain't gonne be no thang.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko531.jpg
Alas, Lepant is to skittish to finish what we've started, and insists that we can only handle Kasim's army. Then Humphrey pipes up with this idea: why not forge an alliance with the Dragon Knights?

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko532.jpg
Sanchez almost immediately tries to poo-poo this idea, but ○∆□☆ likes the sound of it. He and Humphrey suit up and make their way towards the Dragon's Den!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko533.jpg
Flik decides to tag along as well. What with Gremio being dead and Viktor on vacation I guess he feels he's qualified to fill the role as supervisor.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko534.jpg
First let's check out some of our new castle areas! Here we have Hugo's library, where he's taking good care of the Old Books we've collected so far. This particular one gives hints on how to recruit some of the more obscure characters in the game, which is actually super duper helpful if you don't already know where everyone is. Later games let you recruit a detective you can pay to get this information, which is much cooler, but I guess they haven't concocted that idea yet.

Hey peanut gallery!
I don't have all the Old Books yet, but I'll complete the collection for your perusal. How do you want me to go about them? A dedicated post with all the images in a line? Transcribe them? Fire up Camtasia and sing them to you in a video? INPUT PLZTHX.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko535.jpg
Window is all hopped up on goofballs and doesn't even remember who I am. Hooray!

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko536.jpg
I only have two Window Sets so far: the rosey flower one and the solid gold outline one. Even with such a meager collection Window throws in all the different color changes for free. I'll just assume you guys want me to use the ugliest one imaginable, so we'll lace everything with flowers and then turn the boxes purple for good measure.

Hey, now that our window can't possibly get any gayer, what does Milich have to say?

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko537.jpg
Hard to believe this is the same guy who fed my nanny to evil flesh-eating spores? Go back to your soyjoys and herbal tea, nancy-boy.

Brickroad
09-02-2008, 08:49 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko538.jpg
In the meantime, we've got some peoples to recruit. And we're gonna have to go truckin' through some long dungeons to do it. Before it's time to get our hands dirty with the Dragon Knights I'll graft my Double-beat Rune onto Humphrey, but for now the idea is to get in and out as quickly as possible. The Champion's Rune will let me avoid weakling fights and cut my dungeon-running time dramatically.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko539.jpg
Back in Kalekka, Leon decides the Liberation Army meets his exacting standards and asks us to pay Mathiu a compliment.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko540.jpg
Mathiu, figuring the leader of the Liberation Army has nothing better to do with his time, asks ○∆□☆ to be his messenger boy.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko541.jpg
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko542.jpg
Hey boner, if you were just gonna come out here ANYWAY why did you make me lug this letter around? Sheesh.

Hey, you hear that horrible groaning sound? The one that sounds like ten thousand frustrated gamers crying in unison? That's the sound of absolutely everyone getting screwed out of a perfect game. Even if you know the requirements for Leon he is stupidly easy to miss. (Actually I don't think you can miss him permenantly, but there is a Point of No Return beyond which recruiting more Stars won't earn you the best ending, so you have to have Leon before then.) The subquest is easy enough: with the castle in phase four, talk to Leon, then talk to Mathiu, then talk to Leon again. I've highlighted the tricky part in blue for you. In order to get Mathiu to advance this little subplot, he's got to be in a position where talking to him won't advance the regular plot. The window of time where this is possible is ridiculously short; it's got to be after you get your nintieth recruit (impossible before the very end of the Neclord scenario) but before you finish the Dragon's Den scenario. See, meeting Mathiu after clearing the Dragon's Den triggers the next part, and he spends the final two scenarios of the game away from the castle. So, no chance to recruit Leon.

HEY BRICK STOP YAMMERING AND GET TO THE POINT.

Okay okay. Up until now I've been in a pretty good rhythm of: follow plot, go recruiting. Follow plot, go recruiting. That's just the natural way Suikoden plays out. However, if you go recruiting after Neclord while missing a single Star you won't meet Leon's requirements. And who is going to think to abandon the scenario mid-plot to go recruiting?

So yeah. Lots and lots of characters in Suikoden, but only three that have a habit of screwing veteran players out of a perfect game. Leon is one of them. We'll meet the other two in short order.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/leon.gif091/108: Leon Silverberg
I've already given my dissertation on why Leon is a cool character back in my last visit to Kalekka. Like Apple, he simply joins Mathiu on the Strategist team in combat and... nothing else. Ah well.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko543.jpg
Back in the Qlon Caves, looks like our castle is big enough for Crowley.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/crowley.gif092/108: Crowley
Crowley is the king of the rune mages. He get an absolutely sick amount of spell charges and has the highest MGC of anyone in the game. Now, I've been down on dedicated rune users most of the game, but Crowley is so terrific with them that it almost makes up for the drawback of him being useless in Free Will fights. Certainly a lot better in a group than Luc or Hellion.

shivam
09-02-2008, 08:51 PM
FUCK. I JUST MISSED LEON EXACTLY HOW YOU SAID.

Brickroad
09-02-2008, 08:51 PM
http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko544.jpg
Our next stop is Neclord's Castle. Specifically the very tail end of Neclord's Castle. This being the most recent dungeon we've tromped through, not all the fights are at Let Go level yet. Not to worry, because I can put the little-used Bribe command to good use to avoid the few fights I do run into. I've got practically infinite money anyway, and I want to get this over with quickly. The real question is what the heck a flaming horse, three-headed skeleton monster and the ghost-sperm triplets are going to spend money on. Ideas?

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko545.jpg
In Neclord's room we run into Pesmerga, the dark knight who hunts Yuber. Thankfully the only hoop he makes us jump through is retracing our steps through Neclord's Castle (and, of course, back out again since Escape Talismans don't work). Thank heavens for small favors.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/pesmerga.gif093/108: Pesmerga
We know less about Pesmerga than we do Yuber. Literally the only thing the games tell us about him is that he is chasing Yuber. Why? We don't know. How long has he been at it? We don't know. Is he a regular human with a death wish or some otherworldly creature with a grudge? We don't know. What we do know is that he's one of the strongest S-range fighters in the game, built like a brick shithouse. Put he and Humphrey on the front line together and you'll never have to worry about taking damage from regular attacks again.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko546.jpg
Last we hit up Rikon. Like Antonio, Jabba and Esmeralda there is an element of randomness here. Sometimes this guy is standing in the Inn waiting to be recruited, sometimes he isn't.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/suiko547.jpg
LUCKY ME! It only takes three tries to get Clive to appear. You heard right, gang: this means the game took pity on my poor soul in all four random-recruiting missions.

http://scibbe.com/stash/suiko/clive.gif094/108: Clive
Clive is the man in the back line. He's the only dedicated fighter character (read: sucky rune magic) who is L-range and actually worth a damn, justified by his use of a rifle in combat. He gets lots of crits and is absolutely brutal with a Double-beat Rune. Of course, estragon is going to lecture us all on why we should never use Clive, but nuts to that, we know our Second Amendment rights, don't we?

Hey peanut gallery!
Next update we'll pick it up in the Dragon's Den scenario. I only need to fill two slots, and we just recruited three of the best endgame characters: the best dedicated mage, the best ranged attacker and the best armored tank. Surely you're going to ignore these cats and vote for a butcher, a baker and a candle-stick maker, but I can at least appeal to your sense of pity, can't I?

Master list is here (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=224080&postcount=2). My my, it's starting to look pretty full!

shivam
09-02-2008, 08:53 PM
it's gotta be clive, son.

Brickroad
09-02-2008, 08:54 PM
FUCK. I JUST MISSED LEON EXACTLY HOW YOU SAID.

Well, what can I say? You beat me. =)

Nobuyuki
09-02-2008, 09:05 PM
I say Crowley, out of curiosity. I never bothered to use dedicated magic guys in this game, but seeing all the other characters I've ignored in use I'm interested to see how useful he really is.

Mazian
09-02-2008, 09:26 PM
Hey peanut gallery!
Tengaar does, as promised, seem to be pretty awesome. You should take her.

I bet she'd get along well with Kimberly. You should take her too.

Zithuan
09-02-2008, 09:48 PM
Tengaar, Clive, and for the love of God get rid of that fruity Milich-themed window set.

mopinks
09-02-2008, 10:19 PM
The real question is what the heck a flaming horse, three-headed skeleton monster and the ghost-sperm triplets are going to spend money on. Ideas?

skin!

they all need skin.

Meditative_Zebra
09-03-2008, 12:33 AM
FUCK. I JUST MISSED LEON EXACTLY HOW YOU SAID.

Ditto.

shivam
09-03-2008, 12:34 AM
ok, so i reloaded to my save post dragons den (when you do the blacksmith run), and managed to pick up leon, pesmerga and crowley. Now i'm just a few story characters from completion. and a certain other few dudes.

Alixsar
09-03-2008, 01:32 AM
it's gotta be clive, son.

This. Also, Pesmerga is awesome as shit. Just something to consider.

Issun
09-03-2008, 01:35 AM
ProTip: Voting for Kasumi or Krin here is basically a nonvote, so if anyone was thinking of doing so, don't bother.

estragon
09-03-2008, 01:45 AM
Man, I am so OCD that I can't miss Leon if I wanted to. I spend basically the whole game thinking about not missing him.

I'll vote for Tengaar and Rubi, who are way better back row characters than Clive.

Octopus Prime
09-03-2008, 02:18 AM
Well, if we never get a chance to fight Yuber, might as well go for the next best thing and fight as his rival.

Go Team Pesmerga!

Elfir
09-03-2008, 02:24 AM
Yeah, Clive's da man. We want him. And pink cotton candy girl.

Alixsar
09-03-2008, 02:48 AM
I'll vote for Tengaar and Rubi, who are way better back row characters than Clive.

Lies. Filthy lies. There is no back row character that is better than Clive. And maybe it's just me, but does Clive look more bad ass in the art for Suikoden I than he does in Suikoden II?

I think it might be because he has belts on his neck (http://www.suikosource.com/chars/list/imageviewnojs.php?img=c/clive02.gif&char_id=158) in II and he's way more generic-anime-looking.

...was Nomura involved somehow? I think Nomura may have been involved somehow.

Elfir
09-03-2008, 03:01 AM
I think it might be because he has belts on his neck (http://www.suikosource.com/chars/list/imageviewnojs.php?img=c/clive02.gif&char_id=158)
Clive's totally in the party for the rest of the game.

Gamgee
09-03-2008, 08:04 AM
Man, reading through this makes me want to dig out my copies of Suikoden I and II and give them a whirl. They were great games, and some of the few that I never traded away when I upgraded to the PS2.

That said, yes...Clive is da man.

PapillonReel
09-03-2008, 12:13 PM
My vote(s):

F: Gon, Pesmurga, Ronnie Bell
B: Tengaar, ○∆□☆, Clive

Brickroad
09-03-2008, 12:16 PM
My vote(s):

F: Gon, Pesmurga, Ronnie Bell
B: Tengaar, ○∆□☆, Clive

Aw, isn't that cute. But it's WROOOOOOONG!

Only two open slots, big guy. Flik and Humphrey are coming along and the plot will serve up a third.

PapillonReel
09-03-2008, 12:44 PM
Aw, isn't that cute. But it's WROOOOOOONG!

Only two open slots, big guy. Flik and Humphrey are coming along and the plot will serve up a third.

Man, don't you have a gameshark or something?

*sigh* FINE. I'll go with Pesmurga and Clive then. Somebody's got to stick up for the big guy, and guns > spells.

shivam
09-03-2008, 12:48 PM
HELLION and CROWLEY.

SlimJimm
09-03-2008, 12:49 PM
Aw, isn't that cute. But it's WROOOOOOONG! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1YY54RI5YY)

Kishi
09-03-2008, 12:56 PM
And maybe it's just me, but does Clive look more bad ass in the art for Suikoden I than he does in Suikoden II?

I think it might be because he has belts on his neck (http://www.suikosource.com/chars/list/imageviewnojs.php?img=c/clive02.gif&char_id=158) in II and he's way more generic-anime-looking.

Before this, I was only familiar with Clive's Suikoden II design. I had no idea he wears a frumpy gray raincoat (http://www.suikosource.com/chars/list/imageviewnojs.php?img=c/clive01.gif&char_id=158) in the first game.

TheSL
09-03-2008, 12:58 PM
So is Crowley supposed to be Alistair Crowley? If so I vote for him and his rockin soundtrack. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnj8X1zAZI)

shivam
09-03-2008, 03:19 PM
ok, endgame question--rubi with flowing or crowley with cyclone? raging tengaar is my other.

liquidben
09-03-2008, 03:21 PM
I vote for Crowley, based upon his recent Venture Bros cameo.

I also still has the love for Leonardo and his wacky headgear and weapon-naming.

mopinks
09-03-2008, 03:25 PM
I saw that Venture Brothers episode right after I saw this Crowley cameo:
http://fromearth.net/LetsPlay/SMT2/Update%2034/31-smt2e_00030.png
it made it so much better.

Pajaro Pete
09-03-2008, 03:57 PM
Before this, I was only familiar with Clive's Suikoden II design. I had no idea he wears a frumpy gray raincoat (http://www.suikosource.com/chars/list/imageviewnojs.php?img=c/clive01.gif&char_id=158) in the first game.

Who's going to look like a fool when the Liberation Army gets caught in a light summer shower? Not Clive. He's got a poncho.

shivam
09-03-2008, 05:00 PM
mother earth or cyclone?\

Elfir
09-03-2008, 05:02 PM
mother earth or cyclone?\

EARTH!
c'mon guys we can do this

Octopus Prime
09-03-2008, 05:03 PM
EARTH!
c'mon guys we can do this

Rage, then we'd have FIRE.

PapillonReel
09-03-2008, 05:18 PM
Rage, then we'd have FIRE.

We could use a Cyclone, so WIND.

Zithuan
09-03-2008, 06:13 PM
We could use a Cyclone, so WIND.

The Flowing Rune is pretty cool: WATER!

Gredlen
09-03-2008, 06:20 PM
The Flowing Rune is pretty cool: WATER!
If you put the Phero Rune on someone, characters of the opposite sex are more likely to defend them. Now that's what I call HEART!

shivam
09-03-2008, 06:21 PM
(nobody loves maati, seriously)

By your powers combined, I am...CAPTAIN ○∆□☆!

Alixsar
09-03-2008, 06:27 PM
Before this, I was only familiar with Clive's Suikoden II design. I had no idea he wears a frumpy gray raincoat (http://www.suikosource.com/chars/list/imageviewnojs.php?img=c/clive01.gif&char_id=158) in the first game.

Sturm also morphs into a rifle whereas it's some kind of crazy ass blunderbluss in the first one. What a difference a sequel can make!

shivam
09-03-2008, 06:41 PM
beat it, and beat YOU, brick.

Kishi
09-03-2008, 06:57 PM
SUIKOWNEDhttp://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/grokyou/samoose.png

Brickroad
09-03-2008, 07:36 PM
beat it, and beat YOU, brick.

Oh? So where's YOUR Suikoden topic with 700+ replies, hmm?

Also gear up for your Suiko2 LP.

estragon
09-03-2008, 07:44 PM
beat it, and beat YOU, brick.

Congratulations! You won a marathon against a man wearing a heavy and uncomfortable fat suit while delivering running commentary on his experience!

Brickroad
09-03-2008, 07:47 PM
Congratulations! You won a marathon against a man wearing a heavy and uncomfortable fat suit while delivering running commentary on his experience!

That's not a fat suit, I'm just naturally obese. And lazy.

Elfir
09-03-2008, 07:51 PM
Oh? So where's YOUR Suikoden topic with 700+ replies, hmm?

Also gear up for your Suiko2 LP.

Early Millie and Shiro vote!

shivam
09-03-2008, 08:46 PM
yeah, shiro's not up for debate. ever.

Meditative_Zebra
09-03-2008, 09:03 PM
Front:
Flik (Required)
Humphrey (Required)
Leonardo (He has a hatchet that he kills horses with! Put him to work doing something else before Eureka Castle is flooded with glue)

Back:
○∆□☆ (Duh)
Tengaar (We'll give you a brief fling with your war goddess before we replace her with Mina or Blackman, or such.)
Crowley (Ozzy factor)

Brickroad
09-04-2008, 12:16 AM
Suikoden Interlude
Guys, I feel like I'm running out of steam. Honestly this LP is taking a LOT more work than I ever could have anticipated. Do you realize I have utilized over ELEVEN HUNDRED screenshots so far? That's insane. I mean, I want to do my best to entertain you guys, but I feel like I'm starting to slip as I get near the end and I just want the damn thing DONE, you know? I gotta recharge the batteries, so if you'll permit me to endulge in a little fanboyishness I'd like to introduce you to my hands-down #1 favorite Suikocharacter of all time...

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/brickheartviki.png

Yay Viki!

So, this post is all about Viki. VIKI! This post is awesome. I can't stop thinking about Viki. She is so cool; and by cool, I mean totally sweet.

You guys may not realize this, but the entire Suikoden series is basically about Viki. Really! The entire setting and plot is pretty much just the backdrop for Viki's amazing adventures through time and space. A lot of the Suiko fanbase likes to get their panties in a wad because some Konami guy gave a nebulous promise about how Yuber and Pesmerga would face off in the last Suikoden game. Man, that's small potatoes. What I'm excited about is how the last Suikoden game is going to be all about Viki .

As a Star of Destiny, Viki is the Chitatsu Star. She is the only Chitatsu Star! Viki appears in all five Suikoden games, a feat unmatched by anyone else except some half-nude tittymonster nobody cares about. Now, all the Stars of Destiny mean something; ○∆□☆'s Tenkai Star for example is the "chief star of heaven", Mathiu's Tenki Star is the "star of wisdom", Krin's Chizoku Star is appropriately enough the "thieving star". The Chitatsu Star, however, translates very literally to "Viki's star! Forever! Yay!", exclamation points and all.

Remember how at the end of my FF1 LP I talked a little about some time loop that CHAOS and the four FIENDs were stuck in? That was Viki's fault.

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/blinkingrune.gifThe Blinking Rune
Part of why Viki is so great is her possession of the Blinking Rune, a one-of-a-kind magic rune that allows her to use teleportation magic. Now, the Blinking Rune may or may not be a True Rune... we don't really know. However, in all five Suikoden games she uses it to ferry Nameless Hero Boy around the world so he doesn't have to walk everywhere like a chump. She's pretty much an airship! Except, instead of a physics-defying flying boat she is a cute girl.

Konami didn't realize how completely great Viki was in the original game (boo), but by Suiko2 they wisened up and gave you the opportunity to assign her to your party (hooray!). In those games, the Blinking Rune it hot-glued to Viki's right hand. Most magic runes have four spells, but the Blinking Rune is too incredible to conform to any silly tradition and only has three: Ready!, Set! and Go!. These spells use teleportation in a variety of ways to damage foes. For example, they will blink in a flower pot or and end table to drop on some unsuspecting bad guy. Sometimes it'll blink all the monsters off to somewhere else (possibly some kid's birthday party). Sometimes if she sneezes just right she'll even vanish herself! But even when she makes mistakes, we forgive her because she is Viki and Viki is great.

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/lotsavikis.jpg
Viki Facts:

Viki's weapon is called the "Wand". After you upgrade it a bit it changes to the "Wow Wand" and ultimately the "Wow Wow Wand". (Except in Suiko5, which just flies off like a dozen handles with "Uwa-Wa-Wa-Wa-Wand".)
Viki is perpetually 16 years old.
If for some reason you don't like the Blinking Rune (what is wrong with you?) Viki can put a different magic rune on her left hand and go to town. She's got high magic stats and, in Suiko5, a trademark skill called "Chain Magic" which lets her cast two spells in a round.
Doing a Google Image Search for "Viki" doesn't turn up as many naked ladies as you might expect.
When Viki teleports you somewhere, she squeals "Shazam!" She does this because she is awesome.
Sometimes when Viki teleports you she will screw up and you'll end up someplace weird. You'll know when this happens because she'll say "Oops!" instead of "Shazam!"
Viki aided the Allied Forces during WW2.
Viki is one of the elite rune mages who can attach a rune to her head, enabling her to use the ultra-powerful Pale Gate Rune.
Viki sleeps standing up, and mutters "Waffu..." while she dozes off.
Along with some of her pals (who would later meet her again during the course of Suikoden 2), Viki has the single greatest unite attack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONoCGg-cvYY) in the entire series.
If Viki were to ever peer into the Blinking Mirror herself, the entire universe would fold up into itself. (She would say "Oops!")
Viki has experienced all five of the major conflicts of the Suikoden series, but she did so out of chronilogical order. For example, when she and Jeane bathe together in Suiko5 Viki mentions having met Jeane before, even though it's the first time Jeane had met Viki.
In Suiko1 Viki shares a war unit with Jeane and Hellion. This unit is the second most powerful magic unit, behind Crowley's.
Viki is the only female character in Suiko5 that doesn't dress like a hooker. (Okay, she shows a little leg, but in a manner that is completely tasteful.)
Without Viki, the fundamental premise of the Suikoden games simply could not work. Seriously, would any sane player walk everywhere in the world searching for recruits?
Viki signs all her corrospondence with "Your Viki." However, she has a hard time addressing her letters to the proper person.
Viki is allergic to celebrations. She always vanishes at the celebration party after you win the game, only to appear in the next game.
The most awesome way to kill incredibly hard Suikoden bosses like Luca Blight or Yuber is to have Viki drop a chair on them.
Viki is the best.


http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/littleviki.pngLittle Viki!
In Suiko3 (the final game, chronilogically) a young girl, also named Viki, shows up along with regular ol' airhead Viki. Little Viki is not as super as her big sister(?). She's far too mature, first of all, and doesn't use her Blinking Rune to teleport you around. From what I can gather she was sent out to babysit Big Viki, though outside of their initial scene and a shared unite attack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HMzof5Zb10) they don't seem to socialize much.

There's a chance that Little Viki is actually a younger version of Big Viki. In fact, I'd say it's pretty likely; practically the only evidence against is that she is the Chisoku Star rather than the Chitatsu, and strictly speaking a person can only be born under one star. Still, if there's a single character in the series who can get away with thumbing their nose at the rules of so-called destiny you can bet it's Viki.

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/cardviki.gif
My love of Viki didn't happen overnight. Indeed, I thought not much of her at all through Suiko1, and in Suiko2 didn't extend any thought to her outside of "huh, you can put Viki in your party now, that's weird." Of course, my first time through Suiko2 I completely failed to notice the comments box and so never received any delightful "Your Viki" letters.

I skipped Suiko3 initially because I had no PS2, but heard tales of two Vikis and thought it sounded peculiar. I became intrigued. Eventally news of Suiko4 started trickling out and, when we learned the game would take place 150 years before the others, the obvious question was: how are they going to bring anyone back? Only two characters ended up making the cut from previous games, and one was Viki.

Suddenly I was infatuated with the character. When I went back and replayed Suiko2 I used her to help kill Luca and Neclord. When I eventually moved on to Suiko3 and Suiko5 I made her my top priority when it came to detective research. Every detail about her became like a delicious morsel to be savored rather than gobbled up. I spent hours in Suiko4's confessional waiting for Viki to show up... twice... because I just had to see her reaction to both outcomes. (And yes, I felt incredibly guilty for dropping a crate on her head.)

(The previous three paragraphs were my version of eirikr's Cuchulainn Thing Thread, except it didn't meander all over the place and take me over a month to spit out.)

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/vikispin.jpg
I hope I have managed to convince you all how great and wonderful Viki is. All this talking about her has really got me super double pumped to play more Suikoden, too! The LP is saved! Thanks for reading! Next update: Dragon's Den scenario!

http://www.scibbe.com/stash/suiko/howaboutflying.jpg
Oh Viki, I'll fly away with you any time!

McDohl
09-04-2008, 12:27 AM
The most awesome way to kill incredibly hard Suikoden bosses like Luca Blight or Yuber is to have Viki drop a chair on them.

During the final war battle in S3, I had taken down Yuber's unit a fair amount, and had sent the unit of Hugo, Fubar, and Viki after them.

Yuber weaves his way past Viki, hitting Hugo and killing him. He then followed up with a Fubar kill.

Viki retaliated promptly by casting SET!, dropping furniture on Yuber's head and killling him. It was probably the best S3 moment in the entire ridiculous, awful game.

I approve of the Viki love.

Rosencrantz
09-04-2008, 12:58 AM
I almost missed the Viki post because it got stuck at the bottom of the last page. Good stuff!

Coinspinner
09-04-2008, 01:57 AM
You can get additional Blinking crystals in 2 and 3. They're rare, but not one-of-a-kind. Also, in 2, Viki has a chance of flubbing any spell she casts, which is just hilarious when you're relying on her for Kindness Rain.

(From that moment on, Viki would always have a spot in my parties.)

Thinaran
09-04-2008, 06:00 AM
Viki is perpetually 16 years old.
So then it is a True Rune, then.

And I would like to vote for Leonardo again!

Brickroad
09-04-2008, 08:10 AM
You can get additional Blinking crystals in 2 and 3. They're rare, but not one-of-a-kind. Also, in 2, Viki has a chance of flubbing any spell she casts, which is just hilarious when you're relying on her for Kindness Rain.

Pssht, whatever. Viki's is better than those imposter runes for two reasons:

1) It is Viki's.
2) Viki is great.

So then it is a True Rune, then.

Probably not! She's just a for-real time-traveler, so we've never had a chance to see her age. It's implied that she blinks away from one Suikoden game, just to appear in the next.

Alixsar
09-04-2008, 11:36 AM
Probably not! She's just a for-real time-traveler, so we've never had a chance to see her age. It's implied that she blinks away from one Suikoden game, just to appear in the next.

Remember Young Viki in Suikoden IV? Wasn't that ridiculous?

SpoonyGundam
09-04-2008, 01:28 PM
Probably not! She's just a for-real time-traveler, so we've never had a chance to see her age. It's implied that she blinks away from one Suikoden game, just to appear in the next.

She'd still age, though. These games last a pretty decent amount of time, after all. It's been, what? Half a year in-game since the beginning?

Brickroad
09-04-2008, 01:31 PM
She'd still age, though. These games last a pretty decent amount of time, after all. It's been, what? Half a year in-game since the beginning?

The weak canon lists the Toran Liberation War (Suiko1) as having lasted three years. The various other games/conflicts may have been longer or shorter.

Anyway it's not really important how old Viki is at any given moment, just remember how great she is and you'll be okay.

Rosencrantz
09-04-2008, 01:34 PM
Remember Young Viki in Suikoden IV? Wasn't that ridiculous?

Suikoden III. And she was mentioned in the Viki post!

Alixsar
09-04-2008, 02:26 PM
Suikoden III. And she was mentioned in the Viki post!

Ooooh yeah, it was III. My bad. Also...um, what Viki post?

Edit: TOTALLY missed that. I hate when stuff gets stuck on the bottom of a page.

Edit Edit: Guys, I feel like I'm running out of steam. Honestly this LP is taking a LOT more work than I ever could have anticipated. Do you realize I have utilized over ELEVEN HUNDRED screenshots so far? That's insane. I mean, I want to do my best to entertain you guys, but I feel like I'm starting to slip as I get near the end and I just want the damn thing DONE, you know?

Dude, tell me about it. I'm at 1,327 myself. This thing just won't end. At least you were smart and picked a relatively short RPG.

Pajaro Pete
09-04-2008, 02:57 PM
She'd still age, though. These games last a pretty decent amount of time, after all. It's been, what? Half a year in-game since the beginning?

Let's just say that Viki jumps forward to her next appearance everytime she's not on the screen. Like, everytime ○∆□☆ leaves the basement or uses her to teleport, she jumps forward to the next time ○∆□☆ would see her. So while the Toran war is 3 years long, it's only like a few weeks for her.

Brickroad
09-04-2008, 03:02 PM
Dude, tell me about it. I'm at 1,327 myself. This thing just won't end. At least you were smart and picked a relatively short RPG.

And now you know why I have decided that under no circumstances will I be doing Suikoden 2. =)

Alixsar
09-04-2008, 09:03 PM
And now you know why I have decided that under no circumstances will I be doing Suikoden 2. =)

And now you know why when a few people said "Hey, someone should do Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen...maybe you should Ali-" I would interrupt them with an emphatic NO.

dwolfe
09-04-2008, 09:17 PM
She's pretty much an airship! Except, instead of a physics-defying flying boat she is a cute girl.

I would ride her all night long

I tightened up that paragraph for you a bit, brickroad. How does your girlfriend feel about this?

# Doing a Google Image Search for "Viki" doesn't turn up as many naked ladies as you might expect.

Actually, the results are pretty much all naked chicks....what exactly were your expectations here?

Jeanie
09-04-2008, 09:24 PM
I wonder how many of those pictures were of "Small Wonder" Viki? And no that does NOT mean show me or tell me. Just a random musing.

Elfir
09-04-2008, 09:24 PM
And now you know why when a few people said "Hey, someone should do Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen...maybe you should Ali-" I would interrupt them with an emphatic NO.

Oooh, let's have Brickroad, Alixsar, and Tanto rotate through the sequels to their LPs! That'd be awesome!

Brickroad = Fire Emblem something
Alixsar = Suikoden 2
Tanto = Ogre Battle SNES

dwolfe
09-04-2008, 09:31 PM
Oooh, let's have Brickroad, Alixsar, and Tanto rotate through the sequels to their LPs! That'd be awesome!

Brickroad = Fire Emblem something
Alixsar = Suikoden 2
Tanto = Ogre Battle SNES

You need to finish FF X before you can start on FF XII, you tease.

Better yet, do a Let's Play of FF XI.

Elfir
09-04-2008, 09:36 PM
Better yet, do a Let's Play of FF XI.

Aw, I shoulda taken screenshots when I attempted to play that game! I wonder how many updates I could have worked in with "Let's make a character! Let's walk around! How do I do anything except walk around? How do I make it stop?? *ctrl+alt+del*"

Good times...

I did finally get some FFX playing in today. I really fucking hate those trials.

Tanto
09-04-2008, 09:51 PM
Given that I've never played the SNES Ogre Battle, it probably would be entertaining in a "Watch the stupid newbie fuck up" way...

Elfir
09-04-2008, 11:04 PM
Given that I've never played the SNES Ogre Battle, it probably would be entertaining in a "Watch the stupid newbie fuck up" way...

Boy would it ever!

Alixsar
09-04-2008, 11:11 PM
Boy would it ever!

You have no idea how easily you can fuck up in that game. No idea. You can completely and unintentionally gimp your character during character creation. It's nuts.

Plus, it would be more cruel to make him do Tactics Ogre.

I want to do another LP, but I want to do a short LP. OB64 has worn me out. Suikoden II is short by RPG standards but...not exactly what I had in mind.

Pajaro Pete
09-04-2008, 11:14 PM
You were facing west during the late afternoon while a Cleric-led unit moved south within your sights: Alignment and Reputation reduced by 1/2

Zithuan
09-04-2008, 11:18 PM
Plus, it would be more cruel to make him do Tactics Ogre.

Tactics Ogre is pain. I wouldn't wish that fate on anyone.

PapillonReel
09-04-2008, 11:26 PM
Plus, it would be more cruel to make him do Tactics Ogre.

Man, you'd have to be a monster to make someone play that game.

TheSL
09-05-2008, 07:21 AM
Better yet, do a Let's Play of FF XI.

I could do that for our TT linkshell, but it would be mostly "killed goblins for a couple hours today" for a few months and then going and doing a mission or two.

Balrog
09-05-2008, 07:28 AM
You guys don't like Tactics Ogre? Hmm.

Brickroad
09-05-2008, 07:53 AM
I tightened up that paragraph for you a bit, brickroad. How does your girlfriend feel about this?

Dude, she's jailbait. No.

Brickroad = Fire Emblem something

Over my dead flucking body.

This just in: Brickroad doesn't like SRPGs.

PapillonReel
09-05-2008, 07:55 AM
You guys don't like Tactics Ogre? Hmm.

It's not a bad game by any means, it's just really, really slow. You'd have to have the patience of a saint in order to LP it without descending into madness.

dwolfe
09-07-2008, 01:19 PM
Dude, she's jailbait. No.[/SIZE]

Um...*awkward*. I thought she was like 18 or more, man. At least that's how almost all ages magically are translated when brought to America.

Elfir
09-07-2008, 01:23 PM
Um...*awkward*. I thought she was like 18 or more, man. At least that's how almost all ages magically are translated when brought to America.

That's just in sex-n-boobies games. Also remember: they're not really related.

Brickroad
09-08-2008, 09:39 AM
Hey guys. I sat down three times over the weekend to work on this. The first time I got a lot of work done (played the next scenario, sorted my screenshots, wrote 1/2 of the update). The second time I got called away by Girlfriend to solve a minor household crisis. The third time I went "Uuuhhh" and played Bionic Commando instead.

So I'll get 'er up tonight! I haven't abandoned this nonsense juuust yet.