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View Full Version : A live action Cowboy Bebop film is probably not a good idea...


mr_bungle700
07-23-2008, 06:33 AM
...but it might happen anyway (http://www.ifmagazine.com/new.asp?article=6571)!

At the very least, no Yoko Kanno soundtrack = no deal.

reibeatall
07-23-2008, 06:34 AM
I think if any anime was to be made live action, Cowboy Bebop has the BEST chance of actually being good.

mr_bungle700
07-23-2008, 06:42 AM
True, but the series has such a specific style that I would have a hard time trusting any other team of creators to get it right. If they can get the style (AND THE MUSIC) right, then yeah, adapting the world and characters into live action would be a lot easier with Cowboy Bebop than, say, Dragon Ball Z.

TheSL
07-23-2008, 06:48 AM
Can't be any worse than that live action Evangelion movie that's been in pre-production for like five years now, but seems to be thankfully stuck in development hell.

Merus
07-23-2008, 07:47 AM
Faye Valentine is not going to work in live action.

Pombar
07-23-2008, 07:50 AM
Cowboy Bebop is just a space Hong Kong action film half the time, so it could work.
Though as for easiest adaptation, Black Lagoon strikes me as being merely an even easier version of Bebop.

Dizzy
07-23-2008, 07:53 AM
How about no?

Zeroneight
07-23-2008, 07:58 AM
Who's gonna play Spike?! No actor I'm aware of is 14 heads tall!

Dizzy
07-23-2008, 08:00 AM
I'll audition to play Spike.

You just leave the rest of the 'assassinating any producer or director dumb enough to adapt this' to me.

standing8
07-23-2008, 08:08 AM
Ugh. First Eva, now this? Please Hollywood, let it go. Besides, it's not Bebop unless it involves Shinichiro Watanabe and Yoko Kanno. I'm so angry right now at the thought of a live action Bebop movie, I'm gonna go watch the "Pierrot Le Fou" episode to make me feel better.

Balrog
07-23-2008, 08:10 AM
Who's gonna play Spike?! No actor I'm aware of is 14 heads tall!

Tom Cruise ;)

Merus
07-23-2008, 08:20 AM
Tom Cruise ;)
You take that back!

Pombar
07-23-2008, 08:34 AM
2010: Will Smith is Spike Spiegel.
Co-starring Vin Diesel as Jet Black

Dizzy
07-23-2008, 08:52 AM
John Cusack = Spike Spiegel

"I worked out four times a week for five hours and gained over 100 pounds of solid muscle for this role, and learned for six months twelve ways to kill a guy with this new MMA fighting style that emphasizes pure animal rage. I really wanted to be true to the character so I took a lot of sleeping pills and kept asking questions such as 'Is this all a dream'?"

Kirin
07-23-2008, 09:05 AM
I read somewhere that the folks who picked up the film rights were actually talking to the original creators and sounding concerned about "getting it right". Now, whether those feelings would actually make it to production in Hollywood's environment, well... I'm not holding my breath, but occasionally miracles happen.

I do agree with Pombar, though, that if you just wanted to make a kick-ass violent action movie out of an anime, Black Lagoon would be an excellent choice. Hell, half of its a direct homage to HK and US action flicks in the first place.

Tomm Guycot
07-23-2008, 11:00 AM
Besides, it's not Bebop unless it involves Shinichiro Watanabe and Yoko Kanno.

The Dark Knight really suffered for not having Bob Kane around.

Don't get me wrong - I think they'd screw up a Bebop movie. But it's not because Watanabe isn't involved.

Chu
07-23-2008, 11:15 AM
The real question is, who the heck are they going to get to play Ed? Are they going to use computer graphics to simulate her rubber limbs?

And speaking of anime to live-action adaptions: isn't someone out there making a live-action Akira?

Paul le Fou
07-23-2008, 11:58 AM
no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.

Seriously, just no.

Alixsar
07-23-2008, 11:58 AM
...but it might happen anyway (http://www.ifmagazine.com/new.asp?article=6571)!

At the very least, no Yoko Kanno soundtrack = no deal.

I can see a movie of Bebop working. But this is 100% truth.

virulent
07-23-2008, 12:15 PM
This makes me feel bad. They are gonna mess it up.

Why not just say it's live action Bebop and show Serenity or some episodes of Firefly? Close as anyone is gonna get to it anyways.

Come on Hollywood, stop being jerks!

tungwene
07-23-2008, 12:25 PM
The only way a live action adaption could work for me is if the movie has the original score, or had Yoko Kanno compose tracks for it, and uses copious shots lifted straight from the anime. Even still I don't think it's possible to capture the mood of the series. At best it'll look like Spike and Jet walking through the set of Firefly/Serenity.

Ghost in the Shell I could see doing well. It's been retold several times and I think the idea behind GitS translates nicely under the visions of different directors. It's something new but at the same time doesn't lose part of itself.

Black Lagoon could really benefit from a live action adaption. For one thing, a live action likely won't include the sillier anime trope arcs like terminator maids or vampire lolis.

Balrog
07-23-2008, 12:36 PM
This is an awful idea.

Who's in your dream cast?

Pombar
07-23-2008, 12:38 PM
Who's in your dream cast?Urge to make a Sega pun... receding.

Ample Vigour
07-23-2008, 12:38 PM
Who's in your dream cast?

Cannon Spike.i'm so sorry

EDIT: Talking Time hivemind confirmed.

KCar
07-23-2008, 12:48 PM
The Dark Knight really suffered for not having Bob Kane around.

Don't get me wrong - I think they'd screw up a Bebop movie. But it's not because Watanabe isn't involved.

True, but the series has such a specific style that I would have a hard time trusting any other team of creators to get it right.

The "True, but" bit is in response to someone else, but I think it works here. Thanks to Watanabe, Bebop has such a pure style it's hard to imagine someone else bottling the same lightning. Batman, as more of an open symbol, is more open to creator interpretation and style reinvention.

My hopes are not high. I'm willing to be surprised though.

Edit: Cannon Spike

FUCK yeah.

Sanagi
07-23-2008, 12:54 PM
Why not just say it's live action Bebop and show Serenity or some episodes of Firefly? Close as anyone is gonna get to it anyways.
I entered this thread to say this.

Ample Vigour
07-23-2008, 12:55 PM
FUCK yeah.

WOOOOOON megaman is the cheapest character with the best ending

I entered this thread to say this.

I'd say it was closer to Outlaw Star, less the magical shit and incomprehensible third act.

Dizzy
07-23-2008, 12:57 PM
Why not just give the audience several shots of whiskey, hit them over the head, project maybe three episodes of Cowboy Bebop and say it's a live-action movie.

Anyone going to enter the thread and say this is what they wanted to post, too?

KCar
07-23-2008, 12:58 PM
Holy crap! I totally was!

That is so weird!

Dizzy
07-23-2008, 01:09 PM
I'm wondering how modern day cinematography will capture the odd stylistic mannerism of the fights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv0to8Zv_Co&feature=related). Some say The Wachowski brothers and Zack Snyder have come close, if not arrived there already, but I think they merely controlled the speed of their fights and used a digital camera hover all over their computer animated messes. I don't think they able to replicate the strange fluidity of motion or intensity animators are able to get when staging their fights, the movements of the characters and how the elements around them react.

RAC
07-23-2008, 01:13 PM
The Dark Knight really suffered for not having Bob Kane around.

I bet a Batman movie written by Bill Finger would have kicked ass.

But overall, I just hope it doesn't take as long to get some really great anime-derived movies as it did to get some really great superhero movies. I've no doubt there's somebody out there capable of doing a good Bebop movie, and I also have little faith that this person, whoever they may be, will ever get even remotely close to getting the job.

onimaruxlr
07-23-2008, 01:36 PM
The Dark Knight really suffered for not having Bob Kane around.

Batman has been around for almost 80 years with countless creative teams that have had wildly different interpretations with varying degrees of quality and at this point exists as little more than a commercial mascot for people to riff on in (hopefully) entertaining ways

Bebop happened ONCE and they got it right the first time

2010: Will Smith is Spike Spiegel.
Co-starring Vin Diesel as Jet Black

I feel bad now because I really really want to see this.

Anyway, Hollywood being the creatively bankrupt risk-averse bunch of ninnies they are it was/is only a matter of time before one of these live action anime adaptions starts actually happening. I hope it is not this one. I see no benefit that could come from Bebop being in live action. And then putting aside the issue of "What does this gain by being rendered in real life(+CGI)", there's the question of "Do they have any chance in hell of getting this right?" I think a live action Berserk (series of) movie(s) is a good idea but I am completely convinced that it could never, ever be accomplished in a satisfactory fashion.

Although come to think if it, if it was unrelated to the events of the TV series and served as a prequel that focussed on Spike's tenure in the space mafia...but again, the whole lack of creativity thing kind of ensures that that won't be the case

standing8
07-23-2008, 01:37 PM
The Dark Knight really suffered for not having Bob Kane around.

Don't get me wrong - I think they'd screw up a Bebop movie. But it's not because Watanabe isn't involved.

Along with Yoko Kanno's score, Watanabe's style of writing and directing are things that make Cowboy Bebop what it is. I'm not even saying that it would be successful WITH Watanabe and Kanno, cause even with them on board, they wouldn't be able to capture the same feel as the anime.

You know what? I change my opinion, I mean if Speed Racer and Dragonball are any indication of the amazing quality of anime translated into live action for American audiences, I'm sure it'll be amazing!

Miley Cyrus as Ed!

onimaruxlr
07-23-2008, 01:39 PM
Black Lagoon could really benefit from a live action adaption. For one thing, a live action likely won't include the sillier anime trope arcs like terminator maids

You...you do know that Roberta wasn't really a cyborg sent from the future to protect that kid, right?

Calorie Mate
07-23-2008, 01:45 PM
Faye Valentine is not going to work in live action.

Hm, I would have thought Ed would be the obvious choice for "not going to work in live action". Why wouldn't Faye work?

tungwene
07-23-2008, 02:10 PM
You...you do know that Roberta wasn't really a cyborg sent from the future to protect that kid, right?And neither were the vampire twins really vampires. I just really detested both her and the twins character designs but liked them alright as characters/story elements in the end.

Tomm Guycot
07-23-2008, 02:23 PM
Anyone badmouthing Speed Racer needs to step the F off.

Speed Racer was my favorite movie this year until Wall-E and Dark Knight.

That's right: Dark Knight > Wall-E > Speed Racer > everything else

Paul le Fou
07-23-2008, 02:26 PM
Why wouldn't Faye work?

Gravity.

blitzchamp
07-23-2008, 02:36 PM
Yoko Kanno is Cowboy Bebop. I see this bombing.

Calorie Mate
07-23-2008, 04:18 PM
Gravity.

Ah.

standing8
07-23-2008, 04:39 PM
Why wouldn't Faye work?

Gravity.

Ah.

Excellent point.

Evil Dead Junkie
07-23-2008, 05:18 PM
You know I've always thought that Ving Rhames could pull off Jet Black. He has that mix of loving parent, and person you would never EVER EVER want to fuck with.

And yes I know he's black, guess what so was Jet's Dub.

Paul le Fou
07-23-2008, 05:24 PM
A black guy playing Jet would actually be near the bottom of the inevitably very long list of things that would bother me about such a movie.

If Bebop were made in America, Jet would have been black from the get-go.

Edit: I wonder if they would still have named him "Jet Black" if he were indeed black.

Lumber Baron
07-23-2008, 05:24 PM
Quick poll: Who thinks Jet is black? I always thought he was.

onimaruxlr
07-23-2008, 05:33 PM
Quick poll: Who thinks Jet is black? I always thought he was.

He totally isn't

This does not, however, mean his dub voice is inappropriate. And that being said, I could see people watching the dub first interpreting him as black.

mr_bungle700
07-23-2008, 05:52 PM
I wouldn't have too much of a problem with live action Jet being a black guy. I'd be more upset if they felt the need to make him younger. I fear the urge to make him the same age as Spike will be too strong for a Hollywood studio to resist.

Alixsar
07-23-2008, 06:04 PM
I think Ving Rhames would be a great Jet Black, but I don't think that Ving Rhames would appreciate even being considered for being cast as a character named Jet Black. Even if he didn't, someone somewhere would get offended I'm sure.

dosboot
07-23-2008, 07:00 PM
No anime should be made into live action. I thought the same thing about Black Lagoon once upon a time (and Bebop before that), but I've long reversed those beliefs. The anime version of Black Lagoon would still be miles better than the best live action. The same goes for any anime. And realistically speaking Hollywood isn't going to deliver anything near a top quality live action version, it would be a question of how badly they butcher your favorite show.

I think every time in the past where I thought "this anime would make a great live action" was more about seeking legitimacy for anime over movies. Now I just say forget movies. Let the movie people have their movies and let the anime people have their animes.

mr_bungle700
07-23-2008, 08:39 PM
Let the movie people have their movies and let the anime people have their animes.

I do agree with this, but I kind of like the idea of seeing the stories in a different medium. Granted, it's not as big a leap as adapting a novel into a film, but there's still a jump in form from an anime series to a live action film that could make for an interesting product. A good live action adaptation of an anime series could be really cool. However, I don't think we're going to get all that many of them. In fact, I think I've seen more successful adaptations of manga to film than anime. Like Ping Pong (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u5YaGU3ELk). Everyone should be watching Ping Pong all the time.

`Hrist
07-23-2008, 08:42 PM
I'm cautiously okay with it if they manage to keep the atmosphere, the characterizations and, most importantly, the music.

They probably won't keep any of it though =(

SpoonyGundam
07-23-2008, 08:50 PM
Everyone should be watching Ping Pong all the time.

Oh, man. I am going to watch that right now.

As for the original topic, the title of the thread pretty much says everything that needs to be said, I think.

standing8
07-23-2008, 09:36 PM
Like Ping Pong (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u5YaGU3ELk). Everyone should be watching Ping Pong all the time.

Co-sign.

I would be watching Ping Pong right now if my copy was in my possession and not lent out to my lame ass friend who probably won't watch it. Love this movie.

Oh and Jet isn't black.

mr_bungle700
07-23-2008, 10:13 PM
Oh, man. I am going to watch that right now.

Good!

I would be watching Ping Pong right now if my copy was in my possession and not lent out to my lame ass friend who probably won't watch it. Love this movie.

Go kick that friend's ass!

With ping pong!

Paul le Fou
07-23-2008, 10:41 PM
I do agree with this, but I kind of like the idea of seeing the stories in a different medium. Granted, it's not as big a leap as adapting a novel into a film, but there's still a jump in form from an anime series to a live action film that could make for an interesting product. A good live action adaptation of an anime series could be really cool. However, I don't think we're going to get all that many of them. In fact, I think I've seen more successful adaptations of manga to film than anime. Like Ping Pong (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u5YaGU3ELk). Everyone should be watching Ping Pong all the time.

The thing is, a television series -> movie or animation -> movie isn't a significant enough departure for a real adaptation. There are expectations how something should look/sound/feel, and when you're translated from one cinematic medium to another, those expectations are too close and too strong. It's like an uncanny valley of artforms. You usually end up simply trying to recreate or remake the original in a different medium (which are always the worst examples of movies from non-original IPs), and it falls flat because it can't be said to be a work of its own.

It's easier to adapt successfully from a different medium (well, it's more difficult, but it tends to be far more successful) because you have the opportunity to make the new work unique. Bad book adaptations usually just take a story and throw it on the screen and wonder why it fails - because it's a story written in novel form and you're trying to translate it into movie form without understanding that being in prose was part of what made the original good.

It's like playing a game with a literal translation - no localizer in his right mind would simply take the words, give you the closest by-the-book translation, and release it. You have to break down the original to its core meaning and rebuild something new from that, which requires a solid understanding of both the source and destination media. Good movie adaptations take the source and break it down and re-build it as a movie in its own right, not just a "movie version." That's what makes it hard to successfully adapt from one cinematic medium to another: the process of breaking it down and rebuilding it is tempting to overlook because they're so similar already, and it usually just turns into "make a long episode of this TV show." The worst is going from one movie to another - that takes skill to do effectively. Especially because you can't divorce the two effectively - they're both movies, and are both still available, which invites direct comparisons.

There's an old axiom: good books make bad movies, but bad books make great movies. If a book is a great piece of literature, it will be harder to extract the good elements needed to make a successful movie from its nature as prose. But if a book isn't that great, you've probably got what's a decent story but lacks polish, and you've got a great skeleton on which to build your movie. The Godfather was a pretty mediocre mafia novel, and we know how that turned out. Jurassic Park was a decent scifi dinosaur book and turned into an excellent action flick. Apocalypse Now shares little with its source besides names and themes. Almost all of the great adaptations are like this - the filmmakers take the work and make it their own. And if they're good filmmakers, that usually means they've got a good film on their hands.

Makkara
07-24-2008, 02:45 AM
In fact, I think I've seen more successful adaptations of manga to film than anime.

One of my all-time favorite movies (http://www.midnighteye.com/reviews/strawberry-shortcakes.shtml) is a manga adaptation, so I'll agree with that.

Guy
07-24-2008, 03:17 AM
Anyone badmouthing Speed Racer needs to step the F off.

Speed Racer was my favorite movie this year until Wall-E and Dark Knight.

That's right: Dark Knight > Wall-E > Speed Racer > everything else

This is the truth.

standing8
07-24-2008, 07:42 AM
Anyone badmouthing Speed Racer needs to step the F off.

Speed Racer was my favorite movie this year until Wall-E and Dark Knight.

That's right: Dark Knight > Wall-E > Speed Racer > everything else

The Last Dragon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8JDGwoMqIE) and North Shore (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykLjK-d1940) are two of the greatest movies of all time and anyone that doesn't share the same opinion "needs to step the F off."

Paul le Fou
08-03-2008, 02:29 PM
http://www.firstshowing.net/2008/07/30/rumor-keanu-reeves-as-spike-in-cowboy-bebop-movie/

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGEEEEEEE

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m224/MESIASdaRocket/LJ/RAAAGE.jpg

onimaruxlr
08-03-2008, 02:34 PM
whoa
there are no chopsticks for my instant ramen

Ample Vigour
08-03-2008, 02:40 PM
Where did you get a picture of my stepdad?
Keanu Reeves get the fuck away from Spike Spiegel before you harm yourself.

ravinoff
08-03-2008, 02:51 PM
There's an old axiom: good books make bad movies, but bad books make great movies. If a book is a great piece of literature, it will be harder to extract the good elements needed to make a successful movie from its nature as prose. But if a book isn't that great, you've probably got what's a decent story but lacks polish, and you've got a great skeleton on which to build your movie.

I rather strongly agree with this axiom in general but would like to note every now and then there are exceptions. No County For Old Men is what immediately comes to mind for me. Fantastic book with wonderful prose (even if it isn't quite as good as some of McCarthy's other novels) and the movie ended up outstanding. John Huston's film of Joyce's the Dead is very good. Kubrick's Lolita is a lesser work than Nabokov's book, but its not bad.

http://www.firstshowing.net/2008/07/30/rumor-keanu-reeves-as-spike-in-cowboy-bebop-movie/

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGEEEEEEE
I second that sentiment.

q 3
08-03-2008, 03:24 PM
So does this mean that Spike lives?

Phat
08-03-2008, 03:27 PM
Guys I actually just finished watching Bebop.

It was good.

mr_bungle700
08-03-2008, 04:08 PM
http://www.firstshowing.net/2008/07/30/rumor-keanu-reeves-as-spike-in-cowboy-bebop-movie/

They should get Alex Winter to play Jet.

Bill and Ted's Excellent Space Adventure!

One of my all-time favorite movies (http://www.midnighteye.com/reviews/strawberry-shortcakes.shtml) is a manga adaptation, so I'll agree with that.

Oh yeah, I watched this film the other day! It was good, but sad. I love the ending, though, and the idea of how insignificant all those tears were compared to the vastness of the ocean. Overall it reminded me a lot of the Korean film Take Care of My Cat. If you haven't seen that yet you should check it out.

Paul le Fou
08-03-2008, 04:58 PM
I rather strongly agree with this axiom in general but would like to note every now and then there are exceptions. No County For Old Men is what immediately comes to mind for me. Fantastic book with wonderful prose (even if it isn't quite as good as some of McCarthy's other novels) and the movie ended up outstanding. John Huston's film of Joyce's the Dead is very good. Kubrick's Lolita is a lesser work than Nabokov's book, but its not bad.


Oh, of course. There are always exceptions. In the specific case of No Country for Old Men, 95% or more of the movie's dialogue was verbatim from the book, and a lot of McCarthy's power comes from his blunt, dry vernacular prose, so they were able to carry a lot of the strength of the book over to the movie through that. Throw in Roger Deacons's cinematography and Javier Bardem and you can't lose. I still think the book was better, as the structure and a few key scenes let the themes come across a lot more strongly.

It mostly goes back to the main point which is that true adaptation is far more than simple transliteration, i.e. taking a work and tossing it up on the screen. The stronger (or more popular) your source material, the harder it is to divorce yourself from it and make the new work something on its own. NCFOM managed to take a good source and work closely with it while still making it a strong film on its own merits, which is a rare accomplishment.

KCar
08-03-2008, 05:23 PM
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGEEEEEEE

No.

No!

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

Dizzy
08-03-2008, 05:58 PM
Oh, of course. There are always exceptions. In the specific case of No Country for Old Men, 95% or more of the movie's dialogue was verbatim from the book, and a lot of McCarthy's power comes from his blunt, dry vernacular prose, so they were able to carry a lot of the strength of the book over to the movie through that. Throw in Roger Deacons's cinematography and Javier Bardem and you can't lose. I still think the book was better, as the structure and a few key scenes let the themes come across a lot more strongly.

Didn't McCarthy originally write the book as a screenplay? On the whole, the book is easily adaptable for the big screen.

On the topic of book-to-film adaptations, here's a list (http://www.bookforum.com/inprint/issue=200703&id=257) of the "best" chosen by various scumbags.

Keanu Reeves.... sigh.... Spike is everything Keanu is not. Witty, cool, goofy, expressive....

Mazian
08-03-2008, 07:06 PM
Let's take a moment to remember one of Bebop's finest moments, in the final episode, where Spike [walks into the Red Dragon HQ, smiles, and drop-kicks a grenade]. It's simple, it fits his character, and it's a perfectly executed scene.

Now imagine Keanu doing that.

This is probably not a good idea.

KCar
08-03-2008, 07:14 PM
I've been howling in anguish since I found out. The neighbours phoned to complain, and I answered the phone with "HOOOOOWAAAAAGHHHHHHHHNUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHNUHNUHNOOO OOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO"

Okay, not really. But Keanu? Why does Hollywood think we geeks actually like this guy? Seriously - everyone liked the first matrix despite him. Don't slot him into every geek role thereafter.

Ample Vigour
08-03-2008, 07:42 PM
Okay, not really. But Keanu? Why does Hollywood think we geeks actually like this guy? Seriously - everyone liked the first matrix despite him. Don't slot him into every geek role thereafter.

He's been the geek actor since before Johnny Mnemonic. He is our curse, and we must bear him with quiet dignity.

HOOOOOWAAAAAGHHHHHHHHNUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHNUHNUHNOO OOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO

Sanagi
08-04-2008, 09:32 PM
I guess it's not as bad as Keanu Reeves as Constantine, but still...

onimaruxlr
08-05-2008, 11:54 AM
I guess it's not as bad as Keanu Reeves as Constantine, but still...

NnnyI'd say it's a lot worse. At least there's never been a live action of animated Constantine to be mucked with before.

In fact, in the case of Constantine, I'd say the fact that they made him American and not a dirt-old ex-quasi-magic-punk-rock-guy was a bigger problem than the casting of Neo