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Ghost from Spelunker
07-25-2008, 04:45 PM
If link (http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=4126233n?source=search_video)d oesn't work, go to cbsnews.com and search for "Millenial" from "60 Minutes"

It's like "old people hating anyone younger than them-porn." Download it onto your surgically attached i-Phone and watch it at work after your nap!

alexb
07-25-2008, 05:14 PM
Nasty, smirking cadaver.

MoltenBoron
07-25-2008, 05:26 PM
Man, you know what I took from that? Zero-value-added consultants have found a new variety of snake oil to sell gullible corporations looking for a quick fix to hiring problems.

Look at the faces of the people in the audience for that woman giving a presentation on business etiquette. Every one of them has a smile on their face that says, "I can't believe they're making me sit through this bullshit." You know what would actually make me want to quit a job? Being forced to go to a mandatory meeting (as that no doubt was) because of my age so that I could be condescended to as though I've never been in a business environment before and have no idea how to comport myself.

Phat
07-25-2008, 05:26 PM
Goddamnit, you kids. All we employers want to do is make you work at the same job for fifty years doggedly and unquestioningly until you're emaciated, sad and useless. Your dad did it, and that makes him a better person.

(I want one of you guys to represent the rebellious young youth who turns me around to the ideals of the young generation by way of one-sided debate.)

Guy
07-25-2008, 05:29 PM
(I want one of you guys to represent the rebellious young youth who turns me around to the ideals of the young generation by way of one-sided debate.)

Be excellent to each other, and...

Party on, dudes!

Phat
07-25-2008, 05:32 PM
Okay, pretend that you threw up a rad air guitar right then and by face blew of like the Nazi's at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Issun
07-25-2008, 05:37 PM
Ahhh, of course. It's all Mr. Rogers's fault.

Morons.

Ben1842
07-25-2008, 05:39 PM
Ahhh, of course. It's all Mr. Rogers's fault.

Morons.

He told you that you were a good person. He must be evil.

Dadgum Roi
07-25-2008, 05:42 PM
Remember, you can always get back at old people in the workplace by mentally and emotionally abusing them over their lack of computer skills.

I do this most every day.

taidan
07-25-2008, 05:42 PM
Disagree to an extent. My brother was born in 1981. I was 85. We didn't have the "everyone's a winner" motif in our sports in school. I did notice a change in my little brother's (1989) school experiences. Their estimation of the Millenial span includes the tail end of Gen X.

pence
07-25-2008, 05:44 PM
One of the following is not part of my workplace experience:

Pizza Monday!
Awful parody versions of disco hits! (It's raining value added resellers...)
Corporate Chaplain!
Beer Friday!

taidan
07-25-2008, 05:45 PM
Also, the kind of workplace attitudes they discuss seem to not exist in an office full of engineers.

At least where I work. My friend of 24 comes in to work at 10 likes its A-ok and laughs at me getting in the car at 7 in the morn'

Savathun
07-25-2008, 05:58 PM
Remember, you can always get back at old people in the workplace by mentally and emotionally abusing them over their lack of computer skills.

I do this most every day.

Or by outliving them.

They hate that.

MoltenBoron
07-25-2008, 06:05 PM
I also question the whole "excessive parental involvement" angle. I mean, I don't doubt that it happens, and that it's a relatively recent phenomenon, but how common is it? Does it happen a lot, or is this a case where a few anecdotes turned into a trend article, a few trend articles turned into conventional wisdom, conventional wisdom turned into consultants to deal with the issue, and consultants then provide the sound bites to put in the 60 Minutes report to alert everyone to what a problem this is?

Obviously my experience is just as anecdotal, but my parents aren't particularly involved in my career. I call them every week or two to let them know what's going on in my life, I ask them for advice periodically, but I've never had them intercede on my behalf with a teacher, professor, or employer, and it would never even cross my mind to do so. And everyone I've met in professional school and at the places I've worked seemed to have a similar attitude (though I suppose it's possible their parents were calling their Assistant US Attorney and law firm partner supervisors on their behalf and I never learned about it). Frankly, speaking as a member of the so-called Millenial generation, if an employee's parent called to hector me about said employee's job satisfaction, that employee would be fired as soon as legally possible.

taidan
07-25-2008, 06:24 PM
Obviously my experience is just as anecdotal, but my parents aren't particularly involved in my career. I call them every week or two to let them know what's going on in my life, I ask them for advice periodically, but I've never had them intercede on my behalf with a teacher, professor, or employer, and it would never even cross my mind to do so. And everyone I've met in professional school and at the places I've worked seemed to have a similar attitude (though I suppose it's possible their parents were calling their Assistant US Attorney and law firm partner supervisors on their behalf and I never learned about it). Frankly, speaking as a member of the so-called Millenial generation, if an employee's parent called to hector me about said employee's job satisfaction, that employee would be fired as soon as legally possible.

If a parent helps out a particularly meek or (in most cases) stupid 15 year old child dealing with a bad boss, that can be a good way to teach them to deal with management. Any job from college land on where parent does that, I agree. Fucking get rid of them.

I'm not really sure if the job turnaround in young folks is them "finding themselves" as much as it is them trying to do as little work for as much money as they can. I have a friend who got a communications degree in college, and complained there was no work to be found. There was, but the job market is fickle and it requires a lot of work, not just a job application every week. Instead of looking he worked at best buy for half a year and decided he'd go and get a masters in engineering because he "did well in math and physics in high school". The hope seems to be that said degree will equal instant job, though he thinks nothing of work experience in the field of electrical engineering.

They aren't finding themselves as much as making wild jumps from one idea to another with the hope that the conveyor belt of their life takes them to money.

cortbassist89
07-25-2008, 06:29 PM
Disagree to an extent. My brother was born in 1981. I was 85. We didn't have the "everyone's a winner" motif in our sports in school. I did notice a change in my little brother's (1989) school experiences. Their estimation of the Millenial span includes the tail end of Gen X.
At my high school, anyone who wanted on the basketball team (our school's proudest athletic entity), got on it!

They didn't play them of course. Unless they were winning by a lot.

It was kinda sad then. Because you could tell the rly rly bad players, they'd be the ones sent in the end of the second half when we were ahead twenty, thirty points.

It was kinda like "Hey you guys suck, we're gonna use our shittiest players. Oh, btw, you guys, you're our shittiest players!"

Zithuan
07-25-2008, 06:34 PM
When I was a store manager, sometime parents (usually a Mom) would come in asking for applications for their child. I really wanted to say not to bother because there's no way I would hire anyone who needs their mom to find them a job. Even if I needed seasonal employees.

Savathun
07-25-2008, 06:56 PM
Obviously my experience is just as anecdotal, but my parents aren't particularly involved in my career. I call them every week or two to let them know what's going on in my life, I ask them for advice periodically, but I've never had them intercede on my behalf with a teacher, professor, or employer, and it would never even cross my mind to do so.

No kidding. And even if it DID occur to someone, you'd think the embarrassment would be enough to change their mind.

But yeah, thanks to crippling shyness, when I was sixteen or seventeen, my mom got me a couple of applications at a few places and it was one of the most embarrassing things. But I guess it's good to have that kind of stuff to look back on if you ever start getting a big head or get too full of yourself, to remind you that you're not that great.

Eirikr
07-25-2008, 07:03 PM
I sorta consider myself in this group, if only because I did have everything delivered to me as a child on a silver platter and now that I'm done with college and have to start doing stuff on my own, I'm finding I don't want to. Sucks. Maybe our generation will figure out a way to get us considered as victims of bad parenting? You know, so the government will take care of us.

Ample Vigour
07-25-2008, 07:05 PM
This strikes me as another product of the fear boomers have that their death grip on American culture is slipping away.

EDIT: I do have a rant on how we were treated as children and how that seems to have crippled my generation in the real world, but I save that up for drinking.

pence
07-25-2008, 07:13 PM
EDIT: I do have a rant on how we were treated as children and how that seems to have crippled my generation in the real world, but I save that up for drinking.

I was going to discuss this point, but I was drinking and playing video games. I was also shopping for products online. It was incredibly fulfilling.

taidan
07-25-2008, 07:44 PM
Yeah, there is quite a debate these days about how the boomer generation went from rebels to "ruining everything", and I've heard a lot about both sides. Some interesting points on all sides is all I know.

dosboot
07-25-2008, 07:47 PM
Man, you know what I took from that? Zero-value-added consultants have found a new variety of snake oil to sell gullible corporations looking for a quick fix to hiring problems.

This.

Speaking about an entire generation makes about as much sense as speaking about an entire gender or race. And generalizing anything about what older people think about younger people is just as silly as what the video does in the other direction.

Ample Vigour
07-25-2008, 07:55 PM
I was going to discuss this point, but I was drinking and playing video games. I was also shopping for products online. It was incredibly fulfilling.

Perfectly done.

The tl;dr of my rant follows (applies mostly to the children of the middle class in the 1980s): We were conditioned for a lifetime of leisure none of us can afford. We were taught to expect accomplishments few of us worked hard enough to realize.

periodical
07-25-2008, 10:46 PM
periodically


Unnnnnnnnnngh. nananana.

I remember why I don't watch 60 minutes.

Adrenaline
07-26-2008, 08:29 AM
Couldn't watch more than two minutes. This kinda stuff REALLY GETS MY GOAT, YOU KNOW?

shivam
07-26-2008, 10:03 AM
i love that morley safer is the guy doing the story. he's older than dirt, and has had several generations of young people to hate on.

Balrog
07-26-2008, 10:16 AM
I actually watch 60 minutes pretty regularly and I thought this was one of the worst pieces they've ever aired. It's kinda like representing Muslim or Christian extremists as the norm. I'm glad that never happens ;)

Wolfgang
07-26-2008, 10:35 AM
Not to oversell a point, but you guys who've ragged/hated on Wikia... my boss is two years older than me, who is the same age as his boss, and I never have to talk to them in person. If I need to get away from a coworker, I just put my Skype status to "away".

Savathun
07-26-2008, 10:35 AM
i love that morley safer is the guy doing the story. he's older than dirt, and has had several generations of young people to hate on.

Most of those wrinkles were ones he got from smiling condescendingly.

shivam
07-26-2008, 10:42 AM
Not to oversell a point, but you guys who've ragged/hated on Wikia... my boss is two years older than me, who is the same age as his boss, and I never have to talk to them in person. If I need to get away from a coworker, I just put my Skype status to "away".

dude, no one ragged on wikia. it was more like no one cared that much, so we didn't respond.

Ample Vigour
07-26-2008, 10:43 AM
Not to oversell a point, but you guys who've ragged/hated on Wikia... my boss is two years older than me, who is the same age as his boss, and I never have to talk to them in person. If I need to get away from a coworker, I just put my Skype status to "away".

Why you gotta be up in my grilladelphia, Web 2.0-man?

q 3
07-26-2008, 10:43 AM
Guys if you stop watching after a couple minutes you don't know what you're missing. One dude blames Mister Rogers for making us all lazy and narcissistic. This is clearly an SNL skit, right? Or is the entire show now just copying Andy Rooney's schtick?

shivam
07-26-2008, 10:45 AM
mr. rogers is a saint for the modern times. I tolerate no blasphemy against him.

taidan
07-26-2008, 10:45 AM
yeah did they have to pick to of the biggest douches to represent younger folks?

Wolfgang
07-26-2008, 11:14 AM
Why you gotta be up in my grilladelphia, Web 2.0-man?

That's how I roll, now, apparently.

onimaruxlr
07-26-2008, 12:22 PM
i'm pretty sure i inherited my narcisstic sloth from my dad so that shoots another hole in this theory

Paul le Fou
07-26-2008, 11:42 PM
There's one thing I think about this line of ideas, without actually watching the original:


We grew up getting drilled with the idea that we can be anything we want, do anything we want to do, live whatever life we like. As we reach adulthood, I think more and more of us are finding that, well, that's not true. I dunno if this is specific to our generation, but I think there's a disillusionment there that's affecting people rather widely. Or maybe just me.

blitzchamp
07-27-2008, 12:20 AM
At my high school, anyone who wanted on the basketball team (our school's proudest athletic entity), got on it!

They didn't play them of course. Unless they were winning by a lot.

It was kinda sad then. Because you could tell the rly rly bad players, they'd be the ones sent in the end of the second half when we were ahead twenty, thirty points.

It was kinda like "Hey you guys suck, we're gonna use our shittiest players. Oh, btw, you guys, you're our shittiest players!"

At my high school things were like this as well, but the reason they would let people join the team is so they could learn how to play the sport, also people came from all over to my high school so sometimes people lived too far to play, so we took what we could get. After 100+ practices, you'd be surprised how far some people came.

This strikes me as another product of the fear boomers have that their death grip on American culture is slipping away.

EDIT: I do have a rant on how we were treated as children and how that seems to have crippled my generation in the real world, but I save that up for drinking.

To me, I think different groups of people decided that an easy way to make money, as is stated in the video, would be to generalize an entire generation of people as lazy and incapable of adapting to the current ways of the work force, and the sad thing is that its working. I hope society wakes up from these stupid illusions soon enough.

My main complaint as a child would be how everyone used to say that if you were smart and made good grades then you would get to go to college for free, of course I realized this was not true when millions of other people who were smart and made good grades won all the scholarships I applied for.

Couldn't watch more than two minutes. This kinda stuff REALLY GETS MY GOAT, YOU KNOW?

I'm surprised I went through the whole video, I think I just wanted to see how ridiculous 60 minutes could make things look.

blitzchamp
07-27-2008, 12:23 AM
yeah did they have to pick to of the biggest douches to represent younger folks?

Agreed. They obviously looked for people that would happily fall into the generalization. Since they are a business, they would obviously promote what they want to believe the younger generation is, or else they'd be broke.

MoltenBoron
07-27-2008, 12:56 AM
I also like that 60 Minutes produced a story in which they only looked at the various positive motivational techniques being deployed by businesses, then concluded with Morley Safer declaring that motivating Millenials is "all carrot, no stick," as though a piece that focused only on the health effects of vegetables proves that there's no such thing as fruit.

In my experience in the work force, there are sticks. Oh my, but there are sticks.

Becksworth
07-27-2008, 01:51 AM
yeah did they have to pick to of the biggest douches to represent younger folks?

It looks like all their footage of 20-Somethings is of upper-upper-middle class Orange County types.

taidan
07-27-2008, 07:45 AM
Agreed. They obviously looked for people that would happily fall into the generalization. Since they are a business, they would obviously promote what they want to believe the younger generation is, or else they'd be broke.

The one guy who talked about how they can choose to switch between four jobs in a year or go find themselves is a classic example of upper middle class bullshit. They can't do that without heavy support from mom and pop. Those who don't have that end up going through the same paces the "old folks" did.

Sprite
07-27-2008, 01:10 PM
mr. rogers is a saint for the modern times. I tolerate no blasphemy against him.

There's one Mr. Rogers bit that I remember more than anything else.

"You know when you're lying in bed, and you want to turn on the light? But it's not enough to just think about turning it on, you have to actually get up and do it."

I forget the exact wording, but he turned it into a metaphor for the whole "be anything you want to be when you grow up" thing. It isn't enough to just think about what you want to do, you actually have to do it. You have to work. I know it sounds silly, but that really blew my little mind and set off a switch in my brain. Life takes work.

I had lots of little moments in my childhood after that laying awake in bed, staring at the light switch, wishing I could just make it go on by thinking. But of course I had to get up.

I call BS on anyone who blames Mr. Rogers for making people lazy.

Merus
07-27-2008, 06:08 PM
Agreed. They obviously looked for people that would happily fall into the generalization. Since they are a business, they would obviously promote what they want to believe the younger generation is, or else they'd be broke.
Current affairs program comes up with story then finds evidence to suit; film at 11.

Dadgum Roi
07-27-2008, 06:42 PM
We grew up getting drilled with the idea that we can be anything we want, do anything we want to do, live whatever life we like. As we reach adulthood, I think more and more of us are finding that, well, that's not true. I dunno if this is specific to our generation, but I think there's a disillusionment there that's affecting people rather widely. Or maybe just me.

I'm not saying that you can't generalize about generations, because generations definitely have their own identities, but I think that's more of a class and possibly regional issue. I definitely wasn't told any of that growing up. I guess part of that is that my family is very tied to a specific geographic area.

Chasmang
07-27-2008, 07:09 PM
So, this is why my boss wouldn't promote me to assistant manager after my first week on the job.

Ghost from Spelunker
07-29-2008, 05:11 AM
This.

Speaking about an entire generation makes about as much sense as speaking about an entire gender or race. And generalizing anything about what older people think about younger people is just as silly as what the video does in the other direction.

Did this change the thread title to "This is how 60 Minutes sees us"? Huh? Huh? Did it, did it??? (I guess not, is there a way to change a thread title?)

Long time 60 Minutes viewers, have they done this kind of story before on other generations?

Azzyquemint
07-29-2008, 05:52 AM
Long time 60 Minutes viewers, have they done this kind of story before on other generations?

I can't speak for 60 Minutes, but you'll find that a lot of mass media does this kind of story on a lot of topics. I'm personally so tired of hearing the skewed end of the things that I've pretty much stopped watching and stopped reading it.

Merus
07-29-2008, 06:55 AM
Is this a good place to rage about the Fallout 3 debacle?

Basically, Fallout 3 is banned in Australia because it contains morphine. This is fucking stupid. A blogger in Australia managed to get access to a selection of politicians in Australia, and this is what transpired (http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/07/25/clueless-aussie-politicians-r-ratings-game-violence-fallout-3-rape-games).

This is how old people see us.

pence
07-29-2008, 07:26 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Film_and_Literature_Classification_(Aust ralia)#Film_and_video_game_ratings

...these things are being banned because there isn't a rating system on video games... that means anyone of any age can buy them...

Huwaaah? Understanding entertainment is hard, let's go shopping.

I'm anticipating the day that entertainment not only stops entertaining me, but begins frightening me before I experience it.

Calorie Mate
07-29-2008, 11:54 AM
mr. rogers is a saint for the modern times. I tolerate no blasphemy against him.

Thanks, buddy! I wouldn't exactly call myself a "saint" but I appreciate the sentiment nevertheless.


We grew up getting drilled with the idea that we can be anything we want, do anything we want to do, live whatever life we like. As we reach adulthood, I think more and more of us are finding that, well, that's not true. I dunno if this is specific to our generation, but I think there's a disillusionment there that's affecting people rather widely. Or maybe just me.

I know I, for one, kind of agree with this. I was always told, "Get a good education, you can go wherever you want in life," and while I do think it's true to a certain extent, nobody told me, "Oh, yeah, all the cool stuff you want to do is nearly impossible to do. AND once you've made a decision, it's incredibly hard to want to do something else."

I had fun in college, studied something I found interesting, but realized the road I'd be taking with it probably lead to an incredibly boring career for the next 50 years or so...and I realized this a couple months before graduating. The single biggest issue I worry about is that I'm going to be trapped doing a job I can't be interested in for the majority of my life. I know lots of people don't even have the choices I do, and a lot of people out there don't have any choice as to the way they avoid starvation, but for me personally? This is fucking terrifying sometimes.

Mr. Sensible
07-29-2008, 01:22 PM
The single biggest issue I worry about is that I'm going to be trapped doing a job I can't be interested in for the majority of my life. I know lots of people don't even have the choices I do, and a lot of people out there don't have any choice as to the way they avoid starvation, but for me personally? This is fucking terrifying sometimes.

Hence why I haven't gone back to college. All that bullshit for a career I'll probably despise in ten years? Fuck that.

I'm freelance*, baby.

*unemployed and living in semi-poverty

Balrog
07-29-2008, 01:27 PM
I know I, for one, kind of agree with this. I was always told, "Get a good education, you can go wherever you want in life," and while I do think it's true to a certain extent, nobody told me, "Oh, yeah, all the cool stuff you want to do is nearly impossible to do. AND once you've made a decision, it's incredibly hard to want to do something else."

I had fun in college, studied something I found interesting, but realized the road I'd be taking with it probably lead to an incredibly boring career for the next 50 years or so...and I realized this a couple months before graduating. The single biggest issue I worry about is that I'm going to be trapped doing a job I can't be interested in for the majority of my life. I know lots of people don't even have the choices I do, and a lot of people out there don't have any choice as to the way they avoid starvation, but for me personally? This is fucking terrifying sometimes.

I've had this same shitty feeling all week.

PapillonReel
07-29-2008, 01:27 PM
I've had this same shitty feeling all week.

TheSL
07-29-2008, 01:31 PM
Kind of late to this thread, but that video just pisses me off. It makes my generation sound like a bunch of ignorant, manipulative pricks. The end part with those douche bags telling him that their mommies need to see how well they are doing at work only makes it worse.

Calorie Mate
07-29-2008, 01:41 PM
I've had this same shitty feeling all week.

Just a week? Heh.

shivam
07-29-2008, 01:47 PM
Worse still is when you GET that gig you've wanted your whole life, and then manage to get out of it, with no chance of ever going back to the promised land.

Calorie Mate
07-29-2008, 01:48 PM
No chance, or just very little? All it takes is one break, right?

Balrog
07-29-2008, 01:48 PM
I've had this same shitty feeling since I got out of college but especially this week.

Fix'd

Calorie Mate
07-29-2008, 02:20 PM
Ah, there we go.


Dude, let's start a business or something together, strike it rich, then retire in, like, 5 years.

Nicholai
07-29-2008, 02:21 PM
All I know is that I'm a special snowflake just like everyone else.

Wait...actually my parents never told me that. I didn't fall in the "upper" middle class as much as the lowest possible rung of lower middle class (with stints of being legitimately poor) and have never had much to fall back on. No backpacking in Europe for me.

My real theory is this: every generation secretly hates the one that follows after it in an abstract way. I doubt my grandparents thought much of my dad's generation either. I won't be surprised if I find myself annoyed by the antics and attitudes of those in the next generation. Those whippersnappers.

Wolfgang
07-29-2008, 02:24 PM
My real theory is this: every generation secretly hates the one that follows after it in an abstract way. I doubt my grandparents thought much of my dad's generation either. I won't be surprised if I find myself annoyed by the antics and attitudes of those in the next generation. Those whippersnappers.

Tanto
07-29-2008, 02:32 PM
I had fun in college, studied something I found interesting, but realized the road I'd be taking with it probably lead to an incredibly boring career for the next 50 years or so...and I realized this a couple months before graduating. The single biggest issue I worry about is that I'm going to be trapped doing a job I can't be interested in for the majority of my life.

This is probably why I don't really have any idea what kind of career I want to settle down in. I graduate next spring; I still don't have any sort of near-term ambition.

Lucas
07-29-2008, 10:51 PM
I didn't fall in the "upper" middle class as much as the lowest possible rung of lower middle class (with stints of being legitimately poor) and have never had much to fall back on. No backpacking in Europe for me.

My real theory is this: every generation secretly hates the one that follows after it in an abstract way. I doubt my grandparents thought much of my dad's generation either. I won't be surprised if I find myself annoyed by the antics and attitudes of those in the next generation. Those whippersnappers.

That was pretty much the same for me, with all the added "benefits" of having a self-employed father, like not having any benefits. My brother and I made damn sure we never broke any bones, because we wouldn't have gotten to see any fancy "doctors" to get it fixed; our mom would have just set it herself.

I already hate my nephew's generation. Or maybe it's just my nephew.

Balrog
07-29-2008, 10:55 PM
Ah, there we go.


Dude, let's start a business or something together, strike it rich, then retire in, like, 5 years.
Hells yeah. I've got no talent, little ambition and half a tank of gas. Let's do this.

Dadgum Roi
07-30-2008, 04:16 AM
My real theory is this: every generation secretly hates the one that follows after it in an abstract way. I doubt my grandparents thought much of my dad's generation either. I won't be surprised if I find myself annoyed by the antics and attitudes of those in the next generation. Those whippersnappers.

QFT, and the World War 2/Great Depression generation definitely hates the Boomers.

Savathun
07-30-2008, 04:53 AM
Hells yeah. I've got no talent, little ambition and half a tank of gas. Let's do this.

You guys starting a business? You know, I've got this great idea for an erotic game and I really think we could hit it big...

nadia
07-30-2008, 06:40 AM
My father and his hoodlum friends gave his teachers nervous breakdowns. These teachers, I should inform you, were survivors of the Nazi death camps.

I grew up kind of poor though my parents were really good at hiding it. Not that I always had an easy time of things; fellow students are really good at sniffing out clothes that come from outlet stores.

I think things were a little different in that my generation grew up in a recession and so things like Nintendo games were rare gifts. People today moan about the economy and how poor they are now, but they still manage to buy their kids iPods and cell phones and laptops. When I was a kid, most moms still stayed at home to raise their kids. There simply wasn't a lot of money or credit to go around.

There were still plenty of spoiled brats, though. I'm also of the belief that it doesn't take an especially strong breed of stout-hearted human being to learn how to do without. If things get bad enough and our toys all have to go away, we'll adapt. We'll grow leaner and stronger (perhaps meaner) and when our children have plenty again, we'll complain about how soft they are. It's the circle of life Kimba--I mean, Simba.

taidan
07-30-2008, 06:47 AM
Nadia's anecdote reminds me of the fact that last night my housemate's credit limit was extended for no reason, and not at the usual time of the year. This may betray my age, but wasn't there a time where you could be denied a credit card? These days that seems foreign, and that is a huge problem.

There's a reason why I remember college students calling it the "Magic Money card"

nadia
07-30-2008, 07:08 AM
Nadia's anecdote reminds me of the fact that last night my housemate's credit limit was extended for no reason, and not at the usual time of the year. This may betray my age, but wasn't there a time where you could be denied a credit card? These days that seems foreign, and that is a huge problem.

There's a reason why I remember college students calling it the "Magic Money card"

Credit card companies, especially American credit card companies (we don't get a fraction of the "offers" you guys do; not sure if there are regulation laws or what) know that the population is composed of people who will spend, spend, spend and be trapped in an interest hell for the rest of their lives. That wasn't so much the case in the '80s.

Mastercard is perfectly fine with you making minimum payments for years and years on that HD television you purchased.

My credit is pretty wretched, though I'm paying off my cards slowly.

Savathun
07-30-2008, 08:52 AM
Thanks to a very frightening economics teacher I had in high school, I shy away from credit card offers the same way I would from, say, a black widow spider or a cobra.

TheSL
07-30-2008, 09:02 AM
I'm 25 and have yet to get a credit card. I started out with wonderful credit because of my parents, though, and its only gotten better thanks to 3 years of mortgage and student loan payments.

Zef
07-30-2008, 09:52 AM
Yeek. I only use credit cards as time-lapsed payments; I'd use debit or cash, but I want to actually have a credit record, and take advantage of payment plans and discounts. I still make it a point to pay them in full each month --which, of course, requires that I never ever spend more than I can pay, although I never use actual credit. I'd rather take a 300-dollar hit to my wallet once, than to make (increasingly larger) minimum payments for the next five years.

shivam
07-30-2008, 10:09 AM
credit cards are easy to manage if you're smart. I just use mine for gas and groceries, and i pay my bill in full every month. This way, a perfect credit rating means i was able to buy my car.

seriously, your credit rating is super important to build up.

Calorie Mate
07-30-2008, 10:12 AM
I have a credit card that earns me airline miles for every dollar I spend. I think this is the best idea in the world, since I want to travel and have only managed to afford that luxury once ever. The trick is to use the card to pay for everything, but like Zef, never spend more than I have and immediately pay it off. That way it's like funneling bonus miles into my account at no cost.

Brickroad
07-30-2008, 10:13 AM
credit cards are easy to manage if you're smart. I just use mine for gas and groceries, and i pay my bill in full every month. This way, a perfect credit rating means i was able to buy my car.

seriously, your credit rating is super important to build up.

I had always heard that it's better in the long run to carry at least a small balance on the account, because they like making interest off you. My balance is a little high right now (still have my HDTV on it) but generally I keep it down to about $40 or $50.

shivam
07-30-2008, 10:22 AM
yeah, i can't stand carrying a debt of any kind, so i wouldnt do that anyway.

dwolfe
07-30-2008, 10:26 AM
credit cards are easy to manage if you're smart. I just use mine for gas and groceries, and i pay my bill in full every month. This way, a perfect credit rating means i was able to buy my car.

seriously, your credit rating is super important to build up.

Exactly this. I've never had a balance in a decade. I never had a school loan so this was the only way to build a history for my car loan, since paid off (early). Now, if I ever get a real job, I might qualify for a home loan despite the crackdown on poor credit risks since the mortgage industry implosion.

Credit cards are good if you have the discipline to not overspend, the bank to pay them off, and a system in place to not forget a payment.

mike
07-30-2008, 10:54 AM
I've had a credit card since I was 18, but it took me eight years to understand that carrying a balance was even possible. I'd even pay off my charges online hours after each purchase, at first, but even when I eased up to just paying monthly, I never missed a payment for fear of the nonspecific bad things that I presumed it would entail. It wasn't until I got turned down for a credit application when buying a digital piano that I discovered having a credit card is not equivalent to building a credit history, but I eventually remedied this by responsibly paying off student loans and some small unnecessary car loans I took out.

I still just keep a running estimate in my head of how much I charge each month and make sure it stays in a range I can afford to pay off without eating into savings or upcoming expenses. Even so, I've been trying to switch to a cash economy as much as possible, just for the psychological impact it has on my impulse spending, i.e. I don't lose $50+ every time I wander too close to a Gamestop or a bookstore anymore.

Alixsar
07-30-2008, 10:55 AM
This report is really exaggerated but...honestly, I think he's sorta right. Nobody knows what it means to do any god damn work anymore. Well, not nobody...but there's a lot of them.

Jeanie
07-30-2008, 12:21 PM
credit cards are easy to manage if you're smart. I just use mine for gas and groceries, and i pay my bill in full every month. This way, a perfect credit rating means i was able to buy my car.


This is just a personal opinion, so don't get mad, but I see paying for things like groceries and gas with a Credit Card as bad. Something about an interest rate on things that will be gone by the time you get your bill I don't like.

shivam
07-30-2008, 12:25 PM
you aren't charged interest on things immediately. Interest accrues if you don't pay off your bill every month. As i pay my bills on time, i'm never charged interest.

Jeanie
07-30-2008, 12:41 PM
I understand that, it's just that I don't like doing that on general principle.

nadia
07-30-2008, 01:24 PM
This report is really exaggerated but...honestly, I think he's sorta right. Nobody knows what it means to do any god damn work anymore. Well, not nobody...but there's a lot of them.

"Nobody" being the hundreds of thousands of people who put in sixty-hour workweeks? Aren't there dozens of statistics supporting the fact that Americans rarely take their vacation days? Not that they're given that many to begin with?

I haven't read the article so maybe I'm taking this out of context. But to me, nobody works harder than the college student who puts in a forty-hour week after his/her studies. I couldn't do it even though it was expected of me, and I dropped out of school as a result.

As for being "smart" about credit cards, all it takes is a year of bad luck to find yourself suddenly dependent on your card to eat.

Ample Vigour
07-30-2008, 01:48 PM
"Nobody" being the hundreds of thousands of people who put in sixty-hour workweeks?

This. I don't speak for everyone, but at this point I have more friends who've done 12+ hour days than haven't.

taidan
07-30-2008, 01:49 PM
Yeah if I didn't have a Credit Card last fall when I lost my job there would have been many things that would have gone unpaid. That's actually I like to keep the balance low, so if there's an emergency I have as big a buffer as possible to help me out.

There are indeed a ton of statistics about how much North Americans work, and it seems true that people are more averse to taking vacation. I would wonder, perhaps, if some work weeks are extended because folks dont' get enough done during each day of the week, but then again they may make that choice. Still others simply have to.

As for vacation, several of my college buddies and I all landed in software (it was our field of study), but funnily enough our days off vary greatly. My friends in the defense field have off every other Friday, whereas my job may have me leaving for Georgia the weekend I'm supposed to have my sole weekend-length mini vacation.

nadia
07-30-2008, 02:02 PM
Not that long ago my dad told me he noticed that my/our generation has grown up without company loyalties--and we can't be blamed, seeing as our jobs are always one bad profit report away from being annihilated.

We're encouraged to try new careers, which was unheard of not even fifty years ago.

blitzchamp
07-30-2008, 05:24 PM
Hells yeah. I've got no talent, little ambition and half a tank of gas. Let's do this.

This is the key to success. Just get stuck at a cafe and write a book on napkins, that will make you rich.

Not that long ago my dad told me he noticed that my/our generation has grown up without company loyalties--and we can't be blamed, seeing as our jobs are always one bad profit report away from being annihilated.


I think a big factor in losing company loyalty is the elimination of retirement plans. I think people would be more loyal if they knew they had some some of security coming from their company. Plus there are people that get laid off left and right, sometimes after devoting tons of time and effort into a company.

Sprite
07-30-2008, 07:42 PM
Company loyalty ruined my father's life.

Lucas
08-15-2008, 11:22 PM
Hey, some older people get it (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_34/b4097064809209.htm?link_position=link4).

Excalibrate
08-16-2008, 07:34 AM
I wish my father got it.

I'm planning to return to college, and I'm looking at a campus in Montreal. I did the research and thought it all through before even mentioning it to him, and his first reaction was "that's not a good idea, you would be really far away, and you need to make due with what you have." I'm making due with what I know, which means making the best of what is available to me. My mother would say pretty much the same thing; and she inevitably will when my dad inevitably brings it up.
My parents are stuck in the mindset that travel is impossible and big cities are simply suicidal. And that I am five.

*rant* *vent* *angerrrrrrr*

Sarcasmorator
08-16-2008, 08:35 AM
Aw, wadda cute widdle boy!

nadia
08-16-2008, 08:42 AM
My parents are stuck in the mindset that travel is impossible and big cities are simply suicidal. And that I am five.

Strange how my first exposure to careless sex, drugs and excessive drinking (though not necessarily my first participation) came not from the big bad city, but from kids living in small towns and out in the country.

Excalibrate
08-16-2008, 08:49 AM
Strange how my first exposure to careless sex, drugs and excessive drinking (though not necessarily my first participation) came not from the big bad city, but from kids living in small towns and out in the country.

That reminds me...
My parents home schooled me for several years because they were so paranoid about the public school system. Obviously I would become a strung-out crack junkie, paying for hookers and getting shot in the cold, lonely streets. Just like you guys!

I once met a home schooled kid who had the productive hobby of stabbing his bed. Such wholesome people!

Excalibrate
08-16-2008, 08:51 AM
Oops, missed this one.
Aw, wadda cute widdle boy!

Where's my pacifier, bitch?! :mad:

nadia
08-16-2008, 08:51 AM
Oh yeah! It's a cruel world. I've been shot, like...never.

I never understood why paranoid parents think the suburbs guarantees a safe, happy kid. I've been to towns where the only Friday night entertainment available is hanging out at the 24-hour Wal-Mart. Stimulating!

Lucas
08-16-2008, 10:14 PM
I'm from one of those happy little safe towns. The biggest source of post-school entertainment for my classmates was getting drunk/high up in the mountains. Or playing chicken with the trains (my recreational choice when I wasn't reading/gaming). Or sleeping around. Oh, and we had enough meth labs in town that one was busted at least every quarter while I was in high school.

Man, thank God we don't have any arcades or malls or anything like that. That would make us grow up bad.

Ample Vigour
08-16-2008, 10:45 PM
Man, thank God we don't have any arcades or malls or anything like that. That would make us grow up bad.

Meth killed small towns like a silver fucking bullet.

Tanto
08-16-2008, 10:49 PM
I'm told that my alma mater -- 400 students in a town of 7000 -- has serious problems with drugs, delinquency, and gangs these days.

I'm sure this doesn't have anything to do with the sports-first nature of the town or the fact that all the quality people move away just as soon as they're able.

Lucas
08-16-2008, 10:57 PM
Not us, for whatever reason. I think the scene might have dried up, actually; I haven't heard of any labs being raided (or exploding, that happened fairly often as well) for some years.

Come to think of it, that pretty much corresponds with when we had a population boom, with a whole lot of city folk moving up here almost all at the same time. Hell if I know whether there's actually a connection or not.

teg
08-17-2008, 05:57 PM
My town sucks for that sort of thing (quiet little rural backwater). When I was in high school the only form of social livelihood any of the kids got was from what essentially amounted to binge-drinking parties (which I never once attended. The anecdotes were terrifying, for one thing).



Personally the only thing that I really noticed when I was in school (I graduated a few months ago) wasn't so much encouragement as it was ineffective fearmongering. I was completely apathetic for the last two years of high school because I realized that they had been feeding me garbage every year since grade six about how the current year of my education was my most important year.
People would have less to complain about with other people if they stopped complaining about it so much.



My brother was born in 1981. I was 85.I severely misinterpreted this statement.



I can't see the video, nut I hope it's something like this:

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/CX-Neo/oldpeoplethejoke.jpg

Netbrian
08-17-2008, 06:00 PM
My company has looked into using consultants like this in order to attract young employees.

Then they ban iPods, cell phones, and changing your desktop wallpaper.

It would be more efficient just to throw the money in the furnace.

pence
08-17-2008, 06:16 PM
Does that editorial compare Red Skelton to Robin Williams? Really?

Lucas
08-17-2008, 10:38 PM
I was completely apathetic for the last two years of high school because I realized that they had been feeding me garbage every year since grade six about how the current year of my education was my most important year.

Man, you just made me remember how much I loved my high school teachers who didn't try to pull that crap on me. The teachers who realized and were upfront about the fact we were in their classes because it was required and not because it would make an earth-shattering impact on us generally had the most impact on me.

Ample Vigour
08-17-2008, 11:09 PM
Man, you just made me remember how much I loved my high school teachers who didn't try to pull that crap on me. The teachers who realized and were upfront about the fact we were in their classes because it was required and not because it would make an earth-shattering impact on us generally had the most impact on me.

Shit, my senior year of high school was a bumrush of college-prep and AP courses. Our teachers told us we could work hard now and cruise the next year, or cruise now and miss out on all that free time. We bought in wholesale.

Lucas
08-18-2008, 12:09 AM
Oh, my senior year was full of college-prep as well, and I didn't say the classes were easy just because the teachers weren't bullshitting us. These are mainly the teachers I was talking about: they knew precisely why we were in their classes and treated us accordingly, and we got along a hell of a lot better with most of the AP/Honors teachers than my non-AP friends did with their teachers. I mean, the AP History teacher we had, that guy was a total douche. On the other hand, my 12th grade AP English teacher, Mr. "Uncle Bill" Richards? Quite possibly the hardest teacher I've ever had, but also got along way better with his students than most I've seen. I knew a guy who wasn't particularly liked or respected by most of the faculty and returned the sentiment, but he would go to Mr. Richards' house and barbecue steaks with the old man (which he assured me was not a euphemism).

Mightyblue
08-18-2008, 12:49 AM
I was never really challenged at all except for a few rare cases (All AP classes, unsurprisingly) in high school, so I was always in "coast" mode. Nobody ever bothered to give me the coasting speech since most of the teachers were either long tenured and had heard about me beforehand or were part of our school district's cycle of yearly hiring and firing teachers and thus were more interested in somehow managing to not be fired at the end of the year than being good teachers.

Such an awesome learning environment, honestly.

Excalibrate
08-18-2008, 10:55 AM
My school didn't give a damn. But I did. What the hell?

I'm weird. I entered high school (voluntarily quit home schooling) with high hopes and big, rainbow-colored dreams. I worked really hard, day after day, and ended up the freaking valedictorian. But I made my graduation speech knowing that half of my class skipped on graduation, and the ones who were there didn't care much anyway; they were just happy to leave.

I have to give my teachers credit, though, because most of them were great people. They were motivated when they saw that I was motivated. I don't mean to sound pretentious, it's just that my high school doesn't promise much for the teachers or students...they always told me they were "happy to finally get a student like you." When I visited the school after my first college semester, all of my old teachers looked very depressed. Mrs. Atkins, my journalism teacher, was so cheery and full of life when I was in her class, but last time I saw her she looked high-strung and jaded. I can't tell you how much that sucked.

Ample Vigour
08-18-2008, 08:15 PM
Mrs. Atkins, my journalism teacher, was so cheery and full of life when I was in her class, but last time I saw her she looked high-strung and jaded. I can't tell you how much that sucked.

Pubic school teaching is the worst, most important job in America. From what I can see, teachers stay in until every bit of the idealism that got them into the business is gone and they either get out to save their lives or become bitter caricatures of who they used to be.

I went to private school from grades 7-12, so I also got to see the folks who had it good (and knew it.) All I'll say about the whole matter is I know where I'm sending my children when I have them.

Phat
08-18-2008, 08:33 PM
Pubic school teaching
fffffffff

pfffffffffffffffffff

ghhhkkkk

Red Hedgehog
08-29-2008, 01:26 PM
I went to private school from grades 7-12, so I also got to see the folks who had it good (and knew it.) All I'll say about the whole matter is I know where I'm sending my children when I have them.







Oh wait, we're not suppose to quote without saying anything.

Uh, me too.

PatientBeast
08-29-2008, 09:39 PM
Pubic school teaching is the worst, most important job in America. From what I can see, teachers stay in until every bit of the idealism that got them into the business is gone and they either get out to save their lives or become bitter caricatures of who they used to be.

I went to private school from grades 7-12, so I also got to see the folks who had it good (and knew it.) All I'll say about the whole matter is I know where I'm sending my children when I have them.

Yeah, I went to a private school too. Too bad it was a Baptist private school. XP

The teaching was fine, I learned plenty and don't regret that. It was things like "devotional time" and my Ethics teacher I had a problem with. He was such an egotistical freak.