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reibeatall
06-05-2007, 11:57 AM
Since I'm in the minority on my thoughts, I'm going to present my arguments first.

Morrowind > Oblivion

I've put probably 200 hours into Morrowind. Oblivion had my attention for about 20.

1. These are open world games, with a focus on exploration. I've spend countless hours exploring the island of Morrowind for two reasons. One, I didn't have much choice; you HAD to walk everywhere. Two, it was just awesome. Wandering around that damn island finding caves and picking herbs was fun. In Oblivion, you could just tele to any city you wanted, taking away that feeling of exploration. It's like you COULD explore, but why, when you could just instantly go to any city there? What's the point of exploring when you don't really have to? (Yes, I do realize that you have to explore to get the oblivion gates and for the side missions, but for the most part, you can just quick travel.)

2. The story seemed more like... a story. You guys may not think that's bad, but I really liked the "Hey man you're free go find the drug dealer/ex-military guy or whatever have fun" intro of Morrowind, whereas in Oblivion, I felt almost forced onto the story. There was never a good spot to take a break, because you feel like Jaufrey might die or some shit.

3. The guilds. Morrowind had about a billion different factions you could join, give or take a few, and Oblivion had, what, 6? (comma overload). I LIKED being part of the Imperial Legion AND the Imperial Cult, thank you very much.

4. I'm not too keen on the "the world levels up with you" aspect of Oblivion.

5. Oblivion's fighting system is very action-y, which is both good AND bad. It catered to an audience that wasn't used to the whole d20 system. I enjoy it, but I still like Morrowind's system better.



Now, rip me a new one and tell me I'm wrong.

alexb
06-05-2007, 12:08 PM
Yeah, fuck parallel leveling. It killed the game for me. All of a sudden the overworld is crawling with trolls and minotaurs? And all the hedge wizards and highway men wear armor fit for kings? That's bullshit. What's the point of exploring a cave for good stuff if the quality of the stuff is tied to your level? Parallel leveling also meant that there was no chance of lucking upon a really excellent weapon and using it to carve a swath through the opposition because loot is also tied to your level. And in terms of game balance, whereas physical attacks were overly effective in Morrowind, the magical attacks had too much of an edge in Oblivion. The shop system is broken, too. "Yeah, you've got a 15,000 gold set of onyx armor there, but I'm only going to give you 800 for the lot of it." It was nearly impossible to improve your commerce skill, too. And that truncated waste of time they call an ending was icing on the cake. Try again, Bethesda.

poetfox
06-05-2007, 12:17 PM
As far as time played goes, I'm about exactly the opposite of you. So here's my thoughts.

I've put probably 200 hours into Morrowind. Oblivion had my attention for about 20.

1. These are open world games, with a focus on exploration. I've spend countless hours exploring the island of Morrowind for two reasons. One, I didn't have much choice; you HAD to walk everywhere. Two, it was just awesome. Wandering around that damn island finding caves and picking herbs was fun. In Oblivion, you could just tele to any city you wanted, taking away that feeling of exploration. It's like you COULD explore, but why, when you could just instantly go to any city there? What's the point of exploring when you don't really have to? (Yes, I do realize that you have to explore to get the oblivion gates and for the side missions, but for the most part, you can just quick travel.)
This is the sole reason I played Oblivion for a long period of time, and couldn't get very far into Morrowind. Walking back and forth over the same area to go back and heal was not fun. I've played my fair share of MMOs and did all the walking, but I put up with that because I had friends to play with. In a single player enviroment, it just frustrated me.
Being able to choose WHEN I could go explore was, I thought, more of a benefit than a burden. When I felt like it, I could just wander around until I found some cave or temple to loot. Otherwise, I could jump right to the action, with no filler. How many hours of that 200 hours was spent just walking from place to place?

2. The story seemed more like... a story. You guys may not think that's bad, but I really liked the "Hey man you're free go find the drug dealer/ex-military guy or whatever have fun" intro of Morrowind, whereas in Oblivion, I felt almost forced onto the story. There was never a good spot to take a break, because you feel like Jaufrey might die or some shit. I'll give you that. As much as I ignored the story in Oblivion, it was written like a very time sensitive deal, even though it wasn't. At the same time, though, without my boyfriend pointing out what to do early on in Morrowind, I wouldn't have gotten the little bit into it I did. I had a friend who tried to play, wandered off into the woods because he didn't know how to get to the city you're supposed to get to right off, died like 3 times, and quit out of frustration because he didn't know what to do. That doesn't happen in Oblivion, because, if all else fails, you can press that map button and jump to the next objective in the main quest if you get frustrated.

3. The guilds. Morrowind had about a billion different factions you could join, give or take a few, and Oblivion had, what, 6? (comma overload). I LIKED being part of the Imperial Legion AND the Imperial Cult, thank you very much. Nothing really to say about that. More would be better, although I know Knights of the Nine added... well... the Knights of the Nine and I assume there are at least 1 or 2 more in Shivering Isles, but I haven't played that.

4. I'm not too keen on the "the world levels up with you" aspect of Oblivion. Yeah, that's kinda... yeah. I understand why they do it, so you don't have to tackle any side quest in any particular level order. You can just do it whenever. But that's a valid complaint.

5. Oblivion's fighting system is very action-y, which is both good AND bad. It catered to an audience that wasn't used to the whole d20 system. I enjoy it, but I still like Morrowind's system better. More of a preference thing, but that more actiony feel is probably why I liked it a little better, honestly. Although I wish it could have been even more... like just... stealing the combat system from Dark Messiah, which was like the only good thing about the game.

The end.

alexb
06-05-2007, 12:22 PM
Also, they need to add in greater hit detection in the fights. If I fire an arrow into a guy's thigh, he should fall down or at least stagger a bit.

Torgo
06-05-2007, 12:32 PM
Hold up. Oblivion has parallel leveling...? That just killed a little of my enthusiasm for ever playing it.

I've played precious little Elder Scrolls overall (I've played a little each of Daggerfall and Morrowind), and it makes me a little sad every time I think about it.

sraymonds
06-05-2007, 12:50 PM
I might as well jump in, since I kind of instigated all of this.


I love the ability to warp. The silt creatures were a hassle.
The combat in Morrowind seemed really wonky. I never felt as if I was actually hitting someone.
The Dark Brotherhood. It had an amazing storyline and the quests were wonderful.
I liked the parallel leveling. It meant that I wouldn't stumble into an area that had creatures that would overwhelm me. I also loved FFVIII, FYI.
More as I think of them.

Makkara
06-05-2007, 01:09 PM
Hold up. Oblivion has parallel leveling...? That just killed a little of my enthusiasm for ever playing it.

It does indeed. Enjoy fighting gangs of highway robbers in golden armour!

sraymonds
06-05-2007, 01:25 PM
It does indeed. Enjoy fighting gangs of highway robbers in golden armour!

Now that I think about it, I always played an archer that had a very high sneak ability, so that may be why the parallel leveling bothered me. Maybe I'll go back and play as a sword fighter or something.

alexb
06-05-2007, 01:39 PM
Yeah, the setup was murder on inbetweener type characters. You want it easy? Be a high elf mage.

Vahn16
06-05-2007, 02:14 PM
Now that I think about it, the parallel leveling was probably the reason I stopped playing Oblivion. In Morrowind, I'd wander around looking for really cool gear and weapons. It was that feeling of being more powerful than you should be that drew me in. It made it different than your typical RPG. Oblivion ruined that.

Other than the leveling system, however, I find Oblivion to be more fun. The battle system feels more substantial, even if it's still flawed. Being able to teleport was much more convenient than walking or riding the Silt Strider.

I can't really compare the main story lines of the two; I never got into Morrowind's. Oblivion's was fine with me, although I can see where you're coming from with the feeling of false urgency.

Unfortunately, we're not going to get to see how Bethesda can improve Elder Scrolls for a while. Fallout 3 doesn't come out until Fall 2008, and even if there's preliminary work being done on the next Elder Scrolls game, it's still a huge undertaking.

If nothing else, I really hope there's no parallel leveling in Fallout 3. Of course, that's if it's an Oblivion clone, which I really don't like the idea of.

Torgo
06-05-2007, 02:24 PM
It does indeed. Enjoy fighting gangs of highway robbers in golden armour!
I'm just surprised that this is the first I'm hearing of it. I mean, I didn't read up a ton on the game or anything, but I read a number of reviews and whatnot when it hit, and I don't remember any of them mentioning this.

PHATTOM
06-05-2007, 03:24 PM
Should I buy this or Crackdown? I've played (not finished) Crackdown and loved it, haven't played Oblivion.

reibeatall
06-05-2007, 03:34 PM
How many hours of that 200 hours was spent just walking from place to place?


A lot, but the thing is, I ENJOYED it. I really really did. I also enjoy walking around in the woods IRL, so maybe that has something to do with it.


Should I buy this or Crackdown? I've played (not finished) Crackdown and loved it, haven't played Oblivion.



If you've already played Crackdown, I'd say go with Oblivion. Crackdown was good for me until I beat it, and now it's just sitting there.

sraymonds
06-05-2007, 03:34 PM
Should I buy this or Crackdown? I've played Crackdown and loved it, haven't played Oblivion.

One, I love Giada. She's hot.

Two, these two games are totally different, so it's really dependent on your tastes in games.

Makkara
06-05-2007, 03:37 PM
Should I buy this or Crackdown? I've played (not finished) Crackdown and loved it, haven't played Oblivion.

If you already know you love Crackdown, you can't go wrong there. You can definitely go wrong with Oblivion. Definitely.

Deadguy2322
06-05-2007, 04:09 PM
The thing that cracks me up about Morrowind and Obvilivion is tha fanboys who spin the amount of rebalancing mods as a good thing.

The reason there are about a dozen mods to change the game system for Oblivion on the PC is because Bethesda is just too damned lazy to finish their games.

Just because twenty basement-dwellers are ready and willing to take hours of their time to finish somebody else's half-ass job doesn't mean the originators of the game deserve my money. In fact, I'd say the opposite.

PHATTOM
06-05-2007, 04:12 PM
If you already know you love Crackdown, you can't go wrong there. You can definitely go wrong with Oblivion. Definitely.

Thats what I was thinking, but, like Reibeatall said, it seems like it'll be great until I get all the orbs and then its kinda finished forever, which I guess takes only a small slice of time, which stinks for $60.

ArugulaZ
06-05-2007, 04:49 PM
I'd probably like Morrowind if it weren't so damn fugly. The interface is kind of awkward too... you can really tell that it's a work in progress that needed years of additional development time and technological progress to perfect.

You can't play Oblivion first, then take a step back to Morrowind. It'll completely ruin your appreciation for the game. That's the mistake I made, and every time I play Morrowind I can't help but look at it as an evolutionary backslide.

Having said that, the parallel level progression in Oblivion IS kind of odd, and strikes me as a little lazy on the parts of the otherwise overachieving developers. Why couldn't they have just gone the route of other RPG designers and put the high-level monsters near the end of the game where they belong?

After playing for over forty hours and claiming the Mysterium Xarxes from the Mythic Dawn cult, I'm STILL at level nine, and I'm STILL fighting wimpy beasts like wolves and bandits. I just don't feel like I'm making any progress. Even when I'm exploring new lands, I'm battling the same stupid monsters and picking the same paltry prizes from their corpses. This seriously needs to change in the inevitable sequel.

JR

Crazy Larry
06-05-2007, 05:05 PM
The thing that cracks me up about Morrowind and Obvilivion is tha fanboys who spin the amount of rebalancing mods as a good thing.

The reason there are about a dozen mods to change the game system for Oblivion on the PC is because Bethesda is just too damned lazy to finish their games.

Just because twenty basement-dwellers are ready and willing to take hours of their time to finish somebody else's half-ass job doesn't mean the originators of the game deserve my money. In fact, I'd say the opposite.To be fair, there's are a shit-ton of gameplay altering mods for Morrowind too. Aside from the mods to take out parallel-leveling in Oblivion there's not really much of a difference in terms of the general gameplay, nor the amount of mods that alter it.

Aside from the parallel leveling, there's not really a huge difference between the two games. Oblivion is a bit simplified, but not in any way that significantly alters the game. People bitch about the insta-warp function, but here's the thing - you don't have to use it. It's there for people who aren't necessarily interested in exploring and just want to play through the game. Those who like to explore are free to do so. As for the less guilds, I think that's made up for by them being, on the whole, better. Well, okay, mostly just the Dark Brotherhood quests, but none of the guilds in Morrowind are memorable in the least.

All in all though, I prefer Morrowind, just because it seems bigger, and with more places to explore. Oblivion feels a bit empty to me, but maybe that's nostalgia speaking.

alexb
06-05-2007, 06:15 PM
The Dark Brotherhood completely falls apart after your time with the Family.

Stephen
06-05-2007, 06:56 PM
I played Morrowind a lot more than Oblivion, because Morrowind had a wider range of terrain to explore. Most of the landscape in Oblivion is wide open plain or slightly forested plain. There are some mountains, but even those come off as just big, grassy hills. Morrowind is split equally between desolate deserts, bleak mountain ranges, suffocating swamps, the loopy landscape of the wizard's coast and, of course, more friendly plains and forests. Also, because Morrowind didn't have scaled leveling, each area was populated by different beasts--not a lot of them, but enough to make each area more memorable. Morrowind even has a wider range of interior designs, what with all the races that inhabit Vardenfell. Morrowind has a big edge on interior locals as well, since each race used a different architecture style. (Yes, I realize that makes sense since Oblivion takes place in an area with less racial diversity. Still kinda crappy though.)

With Oblivion, it was like the developers got caught up designing herbs you could harvest and types of spoons you could steal, then didn't have time to create interesting areas to place them in.

I agree with everyone that said the battle system in Morrowind was awful. 90% of the game played like an action RPG, the hit/damage detection should have followed suit. The random dice-roll thing works fine in games like Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights and Star Wars: KotR, but those have a disconnect between the players actions and the characters actions that Morrowind lacks.

sraymonds
06-05-2007, 08:27 PM
Well, I've decided to give Morrowind a go again, and to at least stick with it for a bit. But a question.

Lycanthropy: Is it worth it?

jovewolf
06-05-2007, 08:41 PM
If you're going to finish the Bloodmoon quests I think it's almost unavoidable.

But if you do finish the quest you get a Hircine's Ring which pretty much removes any negatives associated with Lycanthropy.

Vahn16
06-05-2007, 10:23 PM
Lycanthropy is something I wish was in Oblivion. It doesn't look like it will ever be added in, at this point, because Bethesda is now going full-bore on Fallout.

Crazy Larry
06-06-2007, 01:16 PM
I played Morrowind a lot more than Oblivion, because Morrowind had a wider range of terrain to explore. Most of the landscape in Oblivion is wide open plain or slightly forested plain. There are some mountains, but even those come off as just big, grassy hills. Morrowind is split equally between desolate deserts, bleak mountain ranges, suffocating swamps, the loopy landscape of the wizard's coast and, of course, more friendly plains and forests. Also, because Morrowind didn't have scaled leveling, each area was populated by different beasts--not a lot of them, but enough to make each area more memorable. Morrowind even has a wider range of interior designs, what with all the races that inhabit Vardenfell. Morrowind has a big edge on interior locals as well, since each race used a different architecture style. (Yes, I realize that makes sense since Oblivion takes place in an area with less racial diversity. Still kinda crappy though.)I think Oblivion gets short-changed a lot with regard to its variety of scenery, both indoors and out. It's not so much that it lacks diversity - it's just that it's a diverse array of stereotypes we've all seen far too often. Most of Oblivions landscapes and architecture could be taken straight out of Fantasy 101, while Morrowind throws in both many more bleak, desolate areas as well as some downright weird, trippy geography (mushroom trees ahoy!) So it's still a point in favor of Morrowind, just not for the normally stated reason.

My biggest complaint as far as scenery and architecture goes in Oblivion is that you start out in this faux- Roman Imperial city that's supposedly the center of the imperial lands that the game takes place in, yet everything outside of that one city is plain medieval architecture. I would've been much more pleased if Bethesda had mantained the imperial motif more throughouly.

Guy
06-06-2007, 02:11 PM
One, I love Giada. She's hot.

Rachel Ray is hotter.

Sarcasmorator
06-06-2007, 02:15 PM
Hold up. Oblivion has parallel leveling...? That just killed a little of my enthusiasm for ever playing it.


Get the PC version; you can mod that right out of the game.

Torgo
06-06-2007, 02:17 PM
Pleased to hear it. The downside of this is that I'm probably two PCs and four or five years away from having a PC that can run it smoothly. (At least if it's as infamous at bringing systems to their knees as I've been told.)

poetfox
06-06-2007, 02:20 PM
My system is fairly old... three years or so... and I ran Oblivion in a window the whole time I played with no problems. Also, there's a mod called Oldblivion to make it easier for older PCs to run. Then again, you're going to be missing out on the pretty.

Torgo
06-06-2007, 02:39 PM
Eh, I dunno. Wouldn't that kind of defeat the point? I mean, isn't wandering around just taking in the game world part of the Oblivion experience?

I'm primed for a new PC in the next year or so (I hope). If money allows I might spring for a graphics card that can handle the game. At the same time, I'm tired of the clutter and wires of a desktop and want to go back to a notebook again. And unless I get one of those 2500 dollar super-duper notebooks, I would think that trying to run something as intense as Oblivion would probably overheat and kill the hardware.

SDMX
06-09-2007, 06:13 PM
The people bitching about how Morrowind made you walk everywhere need to get more familiar with these helpful suggestions. (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Transport) I mean, for god sake, Silt Striders and boats alone. Not to mention all the places Mark, Recall and the Interventions will get you.

Oblivion is pretty, certainly, but it's Morrowind. Now and forever.

Guy
06-27-2007, 02:30 AM
I love Oblivion, but it really can piss me off sometimes. My most recent character got infected with vampirism and I didn't even notice (not that it mattered, because I'm evil and the altar would've refused my cure unless I did that side quest to repent). So I wake up as a vampire, and it turns out my character was also suffering from the glitch where turning into a vampire changes her face into that of a man. I thought she might change back once I completed the quest for the cure, but no. I'm stuck with a shemale. I'm pissed, because that is going to bug me for the whole rest of the game. If I can't find a mod or something that allows me to change my character's sex and facial features on the fly, I might have to completely start over.

But anyway, how about that Dark Brotherhood? That was pretty sweet.

shivam
06-27-2007, 10:38 AM
there is only one answer for this question-- DAGGERFALL.

ringworm
06-27-2007, 12:09 PM
I had a reaction to Oblivion I had never really had with a game before. At the time I was at the high point of a heavy WoW addiction. I was an officer with a high-end raiding guild and spent most of my nights in a constant state of heightened alert while leading raids that I couldn't remember 5 hours later. Then Oblivion came out and for about 2 or 3 weeks I thought it was the greatest thing ever. I spent hours and hours reading the books in NPC libraries and doing Speechcraft on random townsfolk. It pulled me away from WoW completely, which, if you have known/been a heavy MMO addict, you understand how big of a deal that is.

Then, almost suddenly, I absolutely hated the game. Normally when I got tired of a game I just would gradually just lose interest, but with Oblivion I did a complete 180 from love to hate. I think it was because in a lot of respects the curtain got pulled back. You start to recognize that the game's "size" is an illusion and that in a lot of ways you're running on a treadmill. All of the caves in the countryside are the same, the ruins leading to one of a handful of identical tombs with level-scaled enemies to keep the challenge constant, more or less. What good is progression if the enemies always stay at the same level of difficulty? For all the things the game did amazingly well I think the level scaling of the enemies ruined it and even still it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

Falselogic
08-30-2011, 04:11 PM
The correct answer of course now is Skyrim.

Though if I had to pick I'd be with Shivam and pick Daggerfall.

Bongo Bill
08-30-2011, 04:47 PM
Step 1: throw in a mod that eliminates parallel leveling. (Step 0: Play it on PC.)

Step 2: Morroblivion (http://morroblivion.com/).

Nodal
08-30-2011, 05:20 PM
I like them both! Although when I play Morrowind nowadays I need to mod it and add a fast travel.

Oathbreaker
08-30-2011, 08:43 PM
Morrowind.

Skyrim can't win because it was never part of the thread title.

Falselogic
08-30-2011, 09:54 PM
Morrowind.

Skyrim can't win because it was never part of the thread title.


For a guy/gal named "oathbreaker" you're pretty big on rules

newtmonkey
08-31-2011, 03:24 AM
The level scaling and copy-pasted caves/ruins really ruined Oblivion for me. What's the point of exploring if you aren't going to have the risk of ridiculously strong enemies vs the reward of ridiculously strong loot?

Oathbreaker
08-31-2011, 05:07 AM
For a guy/gal named "oathbreaker" you're pretty big on rules

My name doesn't say Rulebreaker, sir.

BŁge
08-31-2011, 07:38 AM
Morrowind.

There are several reasons, but chief among them is this: In Morrowind, you are The Chosen One. In Oblivion, you are The Chosen One's gofer.

Shagohod
08-31-2011, 08:27 AM
Oblivion. People like to tout Morrowind's variety in environments, but I disagree when it's all BROWN. Now the architecture has variety, but the excessive brown kills it for me, and the fact that some of the cities are large and obtuse to navigate. Oblivion's towns are laid out and sized much better.

Plus the shitty combat in Morrowind ruins it. When I see my sword or arrow hit something, it should fuckin' HIT it.

I understand the auto-level complaints, but it never really bothered me. I would rather they just made more interesing quests like the Thieves guild and DB had. Not just the same ol' FedEx quests.

Morrowind did have some zazz that I liked though. Such as coming across that super jump scroll on the dead guy. And using it.

Hopefully Skyrim mixes the two together.

Patrick
08-31-2011, 09:11 AM
I haven't played Oblivion, but I finished Morrowind about a month ago and I absolutely loved it. The way that the cities relate to each other and the way that quests are structured put a game like WOW to shame. The world feels so much more solid when you aren't stuck on a single path or restricted to a starting area. I actually liked the combat a lot, but I followed a few tips to completely wreck the game and make myself fairly powerful early on. Boots of blinding speed + a resist magic spell (so that you can see) does a ton to help. I honestly can't imagine walking everywhere at the starting speed, it sounds dreadful. Atronach plus a reduce INT spell will completely drain your magic, then refill it, so you can get a full mana pool at any time. There is some fairly powerful equipment laying around in the first few towns. Also, doing the Imperial Legion line of quests will give you the best armor and a damn good sword. The best part by far was the Bloodmoon expansion pack. Running around as a werewolf is awesome, and the final tournament for Hircine is wonderful.

It still has issues. I modded cliffracers out of the game as soon as I found out that it was possible. A lot of dialog is cut & paste. Finding locations can be really difficult. Even with mods, visuals are still somewhat dated. None of those things bothered me, I still love the game. I'm not sure if I should pick up Oblivion, or just skip right to Skyrim.

Oathbreaker
08-31-2011, 10:23 AM
Also, doing the Imperial Legion line of quests will give you the best armor and a damn good sword.

The best armor is for the true-est of explorers. You sir, only got the best one the game gives you (same armor value, but with different effects).

It still has issues. I modded cliffracers out of the game as soon as I found out that it was possible. A lot of dialog is cut & paste. Finding locations can be really difficult. Even with mods, visuals are still somewhat dated. None of those things bothered me, I still love the game. I'm not sure if I should pick up Oblivion, or just skip right to Skyrim.

Oh Cliffracers... why were you ever implemented? But the cut&paste dialogue is not only there in Oblivion, it's VOICED... by ONE PERSON per race/gender (I think there are like 3 exceptions).

Now, finding locations is a lot easier in Oblivion. The game points you right to them and a lot of the time, that's great. What I consider to not be great is how drab the environment is. Morrowind isn't exactly better about that, but yeesh. Oblivion is not better. It basically comes down to which color you can tolerate more. The exploration factor (not taking into account parallel leveling) is pretty boring too. There will almost never be anything unique for you to find and on the off-chance you find one of three said unique things, said thing will scale to your level bracket and never be any good if you got it early on. Also the "unique" stuff is boring as hell and is all just fancy-pants enchanted versions of regular stuff (with armor that never scales above its armor type's norm, but that loves to scale below it). In the basic game, there is literally only one unique item that the game doesn't punish you for getting early.

Oblivion's fun is all in the expansions. Knights of the Nine is pretty fun with what amounts to a pretty badass suit of armor compared to anything else in the game (because it also amounts to the only unique set in the game unless you like Ebony armor with all of the weight and none of the protection). The Shivering Isles is where all the fun is hiding. Aside from maybe one or two minor quests you might stumble upon in the basic game, Shivering Isles has 100% of anything worth doing. It is the mecha of the game's fun in a world bereft of it.

However everything I've said is in exclusion of the Dark Brotherhood faction. It is the crown jewel of the game- the only thing they did absolutely right, if you will. Some say the Thief's Guild is also awesome. It's pretty good, yeah, but as everything else in the game: it pales in the face of the Dark Brotherhood. It's just so good. I can't believe they made one faction this incredible and left the rest of the game to writhe in agony by comparison.

If you're up for a game whose mechanics are on the whole better than Morrowind's but whose world is stripped of anything interesting to find, Oblivion is the game for you. If it's not, skip to Skyrim. You're really not missing a damn thing other than the Dark Brotherhood and Shivering Isles.

edit: I forgot to mention the Parallel Leveling. It sucks. End of story. A game should not punish you for not playing optimally (low-leveling it counts as punishment), and it should not punish the game world's ecosystem for leveling up past level 5.

Disclaimer: none of this is to say Oblivion is a bad game. It's a good game. I just critique it very negatively.

ThornGhost
08-31-2011, 10:29 AM
Oh Cliffracers... why were you ever implemented

Truth.

Nodal
08-31-2011, 10:34 AM
God bless Saint Jiub.

Patrick
08-31-2011, 10:44 AM
The best armor is for the true-est of explorers. You sir, only got the best one the game gives you (same armor value, but with different effects).

Fair enough, but I was able to easily beat Dagoth Ur and Hircine with the Lord's Mail. As far as just finishing everything, you don't need anything more powerful than that. Are there any fights in the game that are more difficult than the end of Bloodmoon?

Oblivion

That sounds similar to what I've heard about the game. How much of the less interesting stuff would I have to go through if I just want to do the Dark Brotherhood & expansions? Also, I've read that there are patches to get rid of the parallel leveling stuff. Have any of you tried them, and how much do they improve the game?

Oathbreaker
08-31-2011, 10:49 AM
Fair enough, but I was able to easily beat Dagoth Ur and Hircine with the Lord's Mail. As far as just finishing everything, you don't need anything more powerful than that. Are there any fights in the game that are more difficult than the end of Bloodmoon?

While Hircine's lair itself is pretty damn hard on its own and the boss is also pretty hard, as a boss fight I think Almalexia of the Tribunal expansion is harder. Might just be because she's semi-immune to everything that I usually include in my playstyle. Otherwise no, you won't find anything harder without a mod of some sort.

That sounds similar to what I've heard about the game. How much of the less interesting stuff would I have to go through if I just want to do the Dark Brotherhood & expansions? Also, I've read that there are patches to get rid of the parallel leveling stuff. Have any of you tried them, and how much do they improve the game?

Can't comment on mods, but if you want the Dark Brotherhood you just commit a murder and go to sleep somewhere. The expansions are also a level 1 deal. Whenever you feel like doing them, they're open to you.

Nodal
08-31-2011, 11:03 AM
Well I have two things to say about modding and Oblivion.

1) I have modded the game so many different ways. My favorite is FCOM, which is a bit of a bitch to get working but when it does, it's magical.

2) HOWEVERRR, I recently went for a very mod minimalist run of Oblivion (Only a leveling changer). And I loved it! I had always listened to everyone that the game was terrible unmodded, but I had a great deal of fun!

Adrenaline
08-31-2011, 11:14 AM
Just fucking play the game. The haters are ridiculous.

BŁge
08-31-2011, 11:42 AM
Oh Cliffracers... why were you ever implemented?

Well, I hope you like them, because that's what the dragons are going to be like in Skyrim. Only now, they'll be integral to the game.


However everything I've said is in exclusion of the Dark Brotherhood faction. It is the crown jewel of the game- the only thing they did absolutely right, if you will. Some say the Thief's Guild is also awesome. It's pretty good, yeah, but as everything else in the game: it pales in the face of the Dark Brotherhood. It's just so good. I can't believe they made one faction this incredible and left the rest of the game to writhe in agony by comparison.

I'll let you in on a secret: the Dark Brotherhood quest line was developed by Emil Pagliarulo, who used to work for Eidos on the Thief series.

Patrick
08-31-2011, 11:52 AM
Just fucking play the game. The haters are ridiculous.

Haha, ok. I'm going to wait until the next Steam sale though.

Nodal
08-31-2011, 12:03 PM
Well, I hope you like them, because that's what the dragons are going to be like in Skyrim. Only now, they'll be integral to the game.

Considering how much Oblivion makes fun of Cliff Racers, I highly doubt this.

BŁge
08-31-2011, 04:03 PM
It's true. One of the developers went on record to say that they weren't happy with the fact that players were avoiding the Main Quest in Oblivion, so they were going to make it so the players couldn't avoid it in Skyrim.

Add to that the fact that dragons are going to be randomly generated, so it's inevitable that you're going to get attacked as you head back to town after a dungeon. And the dragons seem pretty unavoidable to me. You're probably going to get chased by them until you can kite them into something else or they kill you.

So yeah. Not optimistic.

Nodal
08-31-2011, 04:17 PM
It's true. A mass of suppositions and things that could be true, if developers aren't on record as saying they didn't like something that I think it's going to be.

Oathbreaker
08-31-2011, 05:23 PM
One of the developers went on record to say that they weren't happy with the fact that players were avoiding the Main Quest in Oblivion, so they were going to make it so the players couldn't avoid it in Skyrim.

This is stupid and said developer should be fired for being a moron. It's like the guy doesn't even know what an Elder Scrolls game is. That's all assuming he was being genuine, though.

Add to that the fact that dragons are going to be randomly generated, so it's inevitable that you're going to get attacked as you head back to town after a dungeon. And the dragons seem pretty unavoidable to me. You're probably going to get chased by them until you can kite them into something else or they kill you.

So yeah. Not optimistic.

At least they aren't Cliffracers.

Bongo Bill
08-31-2011, 05:26 PM
He might have been unhappy with the fact that players were avoiding the main quest because it meant that people thought the main quest was boring and dumb.

Oathbreaker
08-31-2011, 05:30 PM
He might have been unhappy with the fact that players were avoiding the main quest because it meant that people thought the main quest was boring and dumb.

Well yeah. But the solution to that is making an interesting Main Quest, not forcing it on the player. Haven't played all of the games, but Daggerfall and Morrowind stand up pretty well as games where people avoid the main quests not because it's boring and dumb, but because hell, there's a TON of other interesting stuff to do.

So yeah, said developer is still an idiot if he was being genuine.

Bongo Bill
08-31-2011, 05:31 PM
Well yeah. But the solution to that is making an interesting Main Quest, not forcing it on the player.

That was the implication, yes.

Comb Stranger
08-31-2011, 05:40 PM
Oblivion made a lot of good changes, but it just feels so half-assed. It's like they were determined to use the BEST TECHNOLOGY EVAR and hit a wall with what they could do with it. Morrowind seems more in-tune with it's limitations; yeah it's ugly, but you don't often run into glaring deficiencies because of it.

Morrowind also just seems... bigger. Whether that's true or an illusion brought about by the travel limitations and more sandboxy nature, I can't say. At any rate, the fact that there are interesting and useful things to find by exploring definitely added to the enjoyment. Finding a huge ruin in the hinterlands was fun; it didn't need a related quest, because it was well-designed and interesting to explore.

As for the overwhelming brownness of Morrowind, I rather liked it. It wasn't too much to look at in most cases, but it was original and alien, and contrasted nicely with the more traditional Imperial architecture. It could have been done better, certainly (fuck those Telvanni treehouses), but it was interesting anyway.

And of course, I'm partial to games you can completely break.

Hopefully Skyrim will be better; they seem to have learned a lot between Oblivion and Fallout 3.

As for the best armor in the game... yeah, good luck getting the Dragonbone Cuirass. I have no idea how you would find it without a FAQ.

Oathbreaker
08-31-2011, 05:53 PM
As for the best armor in the game... yeah, good luck getting the Dragonbone Cuirass. I have no idea how you would find it without a FAQ.

My favorite color is generally white. Of the brand-new-snow variety. In my angsty years I was rather fanatic about it, leading to a burning desire to find more armor to match the Fists of Randagulf and that one big white shield. I also took advantage of one of those little shop inventory oversights to get like 500 Scrolls of Windwalk (500 Levitation essentially amounting to 200 Speed while airborne, and another oversight allows that boost to work underwater) and proceeded to fill out the corners of the map... underwater when I could. This was all before I had internet access outside of school.

To this day, I am disappointed in two things regarding it.
1) It has a built-in cup. Unnecessary.
2) There is not a full suit. :(

Eltonbrand is the one you need the faq for. Fuck that noise.

Adrenaline
09-01-2011, 06:33 AM
That was the implication, yes.

No! Why bother trying to make the game as good as possible when you can just throw a dragon at the player every 15 minutes which is obviously what will happen.

eternaljwh
09-01-2011, 05:10 PM
there is only one answer for this question-- DAGGERFALL.

Basically, you look at the manual and strategy guide and what actually made it into the [buggy] game, and you see that they were basically trying to do everything, as usual. (see: the Decanter object from the Dark Brotherhood initiation quest, drugs used only in a few side-quests and obtainable nowhere else, coded but dummied-out factions, the incredibly intricate political linkages, that you could in fact get a quest from Random Merchant X...)

Six endings, mutually exclusive, and all of them canon.

A back way into the final dungeon that is really just hilarious.

Procedurally-cobbled-together dungeons(/towns) from premade blocks.

BŁge
09-04-2011, 01:36 PM
Look at me, I'm a goddamn riot

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/06/14/notch-and-todd-howard-the-one-on-one-interview.aspx

Right around 5:00, Todd Howard mentions the main quest. Around 5:15, he says "what's great about dragons is that we can make you not avoid [the main quest]."

Nodal
09-04-2011, 02:00 PM
Yes, that is the same as "Dragons are cliff racers, enjoy." You caught me Buge!

Falselogic
11-25-2011, 01:03 PM
Because the Wife is playing Skyrim and I haven't yet beat it I'm playing Morrowind.

And because this was a thread about the difference between the two and I don't want to make a new one, and it is in my description I'm just going to co-opt this one to take about Morrowind

First off, this is an ugly game but I'm okay with that I play ugly games all the time. Second, I hadn't realized how dependent I had become on games telling me where to go next. It is so convenient. In Morrowind everyone gives you these directions and you actually have to navigate a city. It's kind of a pain.

Third, are there any MODS I need? One's that make the experience of playing the game better (not talking graphically or aurally)?

Lastly, I stole from a peasant and I plan on stealing from everything. Oh, also the fact that you can level up athletics by jumping constantly is hilarious to me.

Mr. Sensible
11-25-2011, 07:54 PM
Lastly, I stole from a peasant and I plan on stealing from everything. Oh, also the fact that you can level up athletics by jumping constantly is hilarious to me.

If they'd spent more time developing player mechanics instead of mucking about with the pretty new graphics, Bethesda could've addressed this issue in Oblivion! They totally didn't, though.

On a related note, Skyrim is pretty great you guys

Falselogic
11-25-2011, 08:22 PM
On a related note, Skyrim is pretty great you guys

None of that now! You hear? We have enough threads for Skyrim this thread is for its hideous, hideous progenitor, Morrowind!

Which is also totally easy to cheat it? They don't even try to stop you from using the console!

YangusKhan
11-25-2011, 08:38 PM
I hadn't realized how dependent I had become on games telling me where to go next. It is so convenient. In Morrowind everyone gives you these directions and you actually have to navigate a city. It's kind of a pain.

I...what? I assume you mean something like quest markers, because NPCs telling you where to go is still...the game telling you where to go. Also the map tells you names of places that you've "discovered" so it makes it easier to find someone's house (for example).

Adrenaline
11-26-2011, 03:33 PM
It's definitely a lot harder to find a camp out in the middle of the wilderness when you have to follow directions like "Follow the path out of town north until you pass a large cliff on the left, then follow the shore for a while until you see a temple, then head southeast" instead of there being a big arrow pointing you where to go.

John
11-26-2011, 04:46 PM
I've finally got Oblivion tweaked enough that I can start a game of it. New textures, bug fixes, unique landscapes, natural environments, Obscuro's overhaul and XP change. No more jumping to get acrobatics skills, and no more world leveling up with me. Only thing I had to turn off is Better Cities, since that dropped my rig to its knees in the Imperial City (and started using 2GB of memory just for Oblivion).

Anyone know how much this build now compares to Morrowind/Skyrim as far as mechanics go? And is there anything else glaring that I'm missing?

LancerECNM
11-26-2011, 04:58 PM
So... everyone keeps saying that the level scaling in Oblivion made the game worse. I'm not arguing that it didn't. But, uh, the army of atronachs I just ran from near Balmora would likely argue against Morrowind not having level scaling.

Bongo Bill
11-26-2011, 05:04 PM
So... everyone keeps saying that the level scaling in Oblivion made the game worse. I'm not arguing that it didn't. But, uh, the army of atronachs I just ran from near Balmora would likely argue against Morrowind not having level scaling.

Morrowind has level scaling, but the enemies stop leveling long before you do.

Oathbreaker
11-26-2011, 05:36 PM
It's also not as ridiculously, blatantly against you. In most cases, someone familiar with the type of game it is can get themselves reasonably equipped to handle the scale of monsters they're likely to run into at any given time. In Oblivion if you didn't have the very tippy top of whatever kind of equipment/spells were available to you at any given level you were more or less screwed unless you knew how to game the system (or got really lucky with your build). Ever had a 10-minute long fight against a Troll? That bullshit never happens in Morrowind, precisely because it's bullshit.

Mr. Sensible
11-26-2011, 06:23 PM
I think we can all agree that character building was completely unintuitive and broken in Oblivion.

"So if I don't want to be a total gimp, I need to pick Major skills that I don't use very much so that I'll be able to control how often I level up and earn the maximum five points per level in the base attributes needed for my character build? ...Yeah, fuck this."

LancerECNM
11-27-2011, 05:12 PM
Ha, imagine someone trying to play Oblivion with one of the actual classes. And then, maybe they were like, "I'm going to go do guild quests and leave the story for later when I'm better prepared for it!" And then they went and became Arch Mage. When they finally got to breaking the siege at K'vatch they ended up fighting three plus of both Spider Daedra and Daedroth and were far under-equipped and under-skilled. Not to mention that all the guards would've died basically instantly. That would be hilarious. I'm sure glad that never happened to me!

widdershins
11-27-2011, 06:10 PM
Yeah, level scaling in Oblivion is a bad idea made worse by the fact that unless you're minmaxing and allocating your skills properly (read: completely unintuitive), chances are good that enemies get much stronger than you with each new level.

Yeah, I'm much preferring Skyrim's way of doing things, even if the scaling still does a number on me every now and then.

Destil
11-27-2011, 08:37 PM
My first character in oblivion was a mage of some sort. Though careful application of ignoring the plot and casting every spell I could find as often as I could, I made enough progress in non-combat spell-casting that the first time I went to sleep, I gained 9 levels.

You know the quest in the Imperial City on that inn that's a boat? Where it's hijacked as soon as you go to sleep there and you wake up out in the middle of no where with a few thugs on the boat? Well guess where I first went to sleep. So I'm here with a guy who's cast possibly one fireball ever, with no armor or weapon skills dealing with three level 9 NPCs and no option to run or avoid combat.

Yeah.

Oblivion is pretty good, but running the right mods is essential.

Adrenaline
11-28-2011, 06:29 AM
Or turning the difficulty down. Jesus, people. It's been five years. Get over it.

upupdowndown
11-28-2011, 06:36 AM
Yeah, I'm much preferring Skyrim's way of doing things, even if the scaling still does a number on me every now and then.

It sseems like you're best served by not grinding on Alchemy/enchanting/smithing for a while until you've had a chance to invest in Perks that help you deal damage, handle damage, and/or heal damage. I had a few levels that were pretty touch and go because I mistakenly had done enough crafting to rapidly advance me a couple of levels, but my crafting abilities weren't enough to allow me to do a significant amount more of damage.

Patrick
11-28-2011, 09:26 AM
Third, are there any MODS I need? One's that make the experience of playing the game better (not talking graphically or aurally)?


You will want to get rid of Cliffracers as soon as possible.

Falselogic
11-28-2011, 09:39 AM
Okay, so I'm now the Arch-Mage! Next up? Thieves Guild, then Fighters Guild, then Hluulu Faction, then the other two factions(?), then the Morag Tong (no, Dark Brotherhood?!), then I'll do the main quest.

The hardest thing about the Arch Mage quest was getting that text for curing Vampirism...

I've found that you can fast travel in Morrowind! You just use the console!

widdershins
11-28-2011, 09:44 AM
I thought the houses were mutually exclusive, or am I remembering that wrong?

Oathbreaker
11-28-2011, 09:47 AM
Or turning the difficulty down. Jesus, people. It's been five years. Get over it.

Not really going to help some situations.

Also: why? A negative opinion about a game that has a lot of negative aspects in no way implies that we are unable of getting over something. Oblivion will always deserve a lot of the shit that gets thrown at it because the shit being complained about actually exists in the game. And for anyone playing on a console none of it can be remedied by mods.

So unfortunately, making the game a stupid mess of easy to circumvent what is essentially an extremely flawed mess of Elder Scrolls goodness isn't going to satisfy a lot of people.

Now if Oblivion was a shining example of awesome gameplay and mechanics, it probably would've gotten the same praise Skyrim is getting right now. Which is to say: Oblivion was not a shining example of gameplay and mechanics (and let's be honest, the world design wasn't awesome either with all the samey environments scattered across the samey landscape) and bugs or no, that is why people talk so much about the negatives to the game, especially when advising someone who's thinking about getting it or who is new to the series.

I thought the houses were mutually exclusive, or am I remembering that wrong?

There's a glitch where if you mess with a couple loopholes properly you can simultaneously be head of two of them, but you have to start as a non-Hlaalu house first. And I'm not even sure if that glitch actually worked very well on Xbox, or if it would still work on PC with all the patches and mods and whatnot. Otherwise yes. Mutually exclusive. You can only pick one.

Falselogic
11-28-2011, 09:55 AM
I thought the houses were mutually exclusive, or am I remembering that wrong?

I have no idea! But, I suppose I'll find out.

EDIT: so which one do you pick?

Adrenaline
11-28-2011, 09:56 AM
Not really going to help some situations.

Also: why? A negative opinion about a game that has a lot of negative aspects in no way implies that we are unable of getting over something. Oblivion will always deserve a lot of the shit that gets thrown at it because the shit being complained about actually exists in the game. And for anyone playing on a console none of it can be remedied by mods.

It's fine to dislike a game for what it does wrong. I'm just sick of people rehashing the flaws every single time a game gets brought up. Yes, a lot of the systems in oblivion are broken. We don't have to detail why every two or three months.

So you know, false: the main quest is a lot shorter if you're level 20 by the time you do it.

BŁge
11-28-2011, 12:59 PM
I have no idea! But, I suppose I'll find out.

EDIT: so which one do you pick?

Actually, the only way to join more than one Great House is to exploit a glitch. Hlaalu is the most Imperial-friendly house, so if you're already a member of an Imperial guild (Fighters, Thieves, Mages, etc.), they'll be okay with it. They're good for sneaky characters. You also get the most easily-accessible Manor, which is just a short run from Balmora.

The Telvanni quests are probably the most exhausting, but they're kind of odd and fun in their own way. Power-hungry wizards only! You get to have a mushroom manor in the middle of Molag Amur, and there's a mod that allows you to build it into its own little town, Building Up Uvirith's Grave.

The Redoran quests are all right. They're for if you want to be a noble warrior-type character. The Manor is a bit of a walk outside Ald-Ruhn, but it's fairly cozy.

Joining the Fighters and Thieves Guilds is difficult, but not impossible. There's a few quests where the two factions clash, especially in the Fighters Guild. Be careful.

LancerECNM
11-28-2011, 04:10 PM
Redoran House gets a manor near Ald-Ruhn?

My god, it's like they made the faction just for me.

Falselogic
11-28-2011, 04:22 PM
Interesting, Interesting! Of course I could always just use the console to force myself into every faction...

Actually, any complaints I have with the game can be fixed by utilizing the console.

It must have sucked to be forced to play with on the XBOX.

Also, I'm not quite sure what Blood Moon and Tribunal get me. I'm pretty sure that one island that is available to talk about in every conversation, the one people say is awful is part of the expansions but other than that, no clue. Worth it?

reibeatall
11-28-2011, 05:32 PM
You should join the Imperial Legion and the Imperial Cult.

BŁge
11-28-2011, 05:34 PM
Interesting, Interesting! Of course I could always just use the console to force myself into every faction...

Actually, any complaints I have with the game can be fixed by utilizing the console.

Why not, y'know, play the game? Save the console for when you get stuck inside a boulder or whatever.

Falselogic
11-28-2011, 05:54 PM
Why not, y'know, play the game? Save the console for when you get stuck inside a boulder or whatever.

I am most definitely playing the game and enjoying it. Just saying that any problems I have with the game's primitiveness is usually rendered moot by judicious use of the console.

ALSO YOU DONT GET TO TELL ME HOW TO PLAY A GAME!

Patrick
11-28-2011, 06:07 PM
Bloodmoon (the island area) is awesome, I highly recommend it. In fact, it's a wonderful lead in to Skyrim, since it takes place between Morrowind and Skyrim, and is even mentioned a few times in the new game.

I started Tribunal, but an entire expansion inside of a city didn't appeal to me.

Oathbreaker
11-29-2011, 05:02 AM
Tribunal is awesome if you care at all about the whole Dunmer religion thing. As patrick said, though, it takes place entirely within the walls of a city. There are sewers and a dungeon and whatnot, but the former poses significant threat to you in a certain area of it (or in the majority of it if you're level 40 or so with the goblins going out of control on your ass) and the latter requires you to play through the expansion's plot to get to.

Bloodmoon is just awesome so long as you can tolerate white and/or blue-ish white.

Falselogic
12-05-2011, 10:36 AM
I'm now the head of the Thieves Guild but messed up and missed out on the Dunmer Robin Hood quest line I think. I did the first one but then Gentleman John disappeared...

I'm now just starting the Fighter's Guild questline, after doing a bunch of random exploring of the island... And leveling myself up quite a bit. Enemies scale in Morrowind just like they do in Oblivion, right?

I'm having a blast regardless! Oh also, how does completing the Thieves Guild questline (which ended in me killing the head of the Fighter's Guild) effect the Fighter's Guild quest line, does anyone know?

Also, are the Imperial Cult and Imperial Legion quest lines worth doing? I'd like to beat this game before the new year and I think if I did the main line quest I could take the final boss (maybe) but I do like the sidequests but they seem almost endless in Morrowind.

BŁge
12-05-2011, 11:08 AM
I'm having a blast regardless! Oh also, how does completing the Thieves Guild questline (which ended in me killing the head of the Fighter's Guild) effect the Fighter's Guild quest line, does anyone know?

You can no longer be Master of the Fighter's Guild, because killing Sjoring Hard-Heart is the final quest of the Fighter's Guild, too.

Patrick
12-05-2011, 11:09 AM
I'm now the head of the Thieves Guild but messed up and missed out on the Dunmer Robin Hood quest line I think. I did the first one but then Gentleman John disappeared...

I'm now just starting the Fighter's Guild questline, after doing a bunch of random exploring of the island... And leveling myself up quite a bit. Enemies scale in Morrowind just like they do in Oblivion, right?

I'm having a blast regardless! Oh also, how does completing the Thieves Guild questline (which ended in me killing the head of the Fighter's Guild) effect the Fighter's Guild quest line, does anyone know?

Also, are the Imperial Cult and Imperial Legion quest lines worth doing? I'd like to beat this game before the new year and I think if I did the main line quest I could take the final boss (maybe) but I do like the sidequests but they seem almost endless in Morrowind.

I'm pretty sure that you can't do Fighters and Thieves guilds, since quests in one cancel out the other. Maybe there was a way to do both if you do them in a certain order, I can't remember.

Imperial legion gets you amazing armor and a powerful 2 handed sword. I ended up using that stuff all the way through the endgame and expansions. If you're a fighter guy, it's really useful.

Mr. Sensible
12-05-2011, 04:22 PM
Are there any quests/chains I should be focusing on as a fighter specializing in One-Handed? Besides the Companions, obviously...

Falselogic
12-05-2011, 04:29 PM
That sucks that you can't be lord of all in Morrowind. That was on of my favorite things about Oblivion...

Why, yes I am the Archmage, head of the Thieves and Fighters Guild, Master of the Dark Brotherhood, and Arena Champion. If I can't do it for you it probably can't be done. #Masterofallisurvey

CaliScrub
12-05-2011, 05:00 PM
You can no longer be Master of the Fighter's Guild, because killing Sjoring Hard-Heart is the final quest of the Fighter's Guild, too.

Aren't there some quests where you just miss out on the rewards if you do them before you actually get the quests, but you still can get advancement? Like some Morag Tong quests where you don't get the money if you kill a dude before getting the writ of execution. The spoiled quest might be one of those.

Eusis
12-05-2011, 05:55 PM
It must have sucked to be forced to play with on the XBOX.
Eh, save loads are the worst part of it. Holy fuck no game should ever take that long to boot up, let alone EVERY TIME YOU LOAD A SAVE. Especially when you can die fairly easily at times.

BŁge
12-05-2011, 06:25 PM
Aren't there some quests where you just miss out on the rewards if you do them before you actually get the quests, but you still can get advancement? Like some Morag Tong quests where you don't get the money if you kill a dude before getting the writ of execution. The spoiled quest might be one of those.

Nope. In order to be named Master of the Fighters Guild, you have to get the go-ahead to kill Sjoring from Percius Mercius. Then, and only then, will he recognize you as Guildmaster.

Adrenaline
12-06-2011, 06:28 AM
Could you get both of those quests at the same time, and become master of both that way?

Oathbreaker
12-06-2011, 08:47 AM
Yes.

Although I would imagine there's some kind of mod or patch or something or even just using the console to fix it yourself to "complete" that very last quest of the Fighter's Guild if you're on the PC. But you'll find it somewhat difficult to get the quests to be a massive dick for the guy.

John
12-06-2011, 08:49 AM
So is it just the Fighter's Guild and Thieves Guild that contradict each other?

Patrick
12-06-2011, 08:52 AM
So is it just the Fighter's Guild and Thieves Guild that contradict each other?

You can only choose one of the Dunmer great houses as well.

CaliScrub
12-06-2011, 10:18 AM
So is it just the Fighter's Guild and Thieves Guild that contradict each other?

You can only choose one of the Dunmer great houses as well.

I think there's a crazy workaround glitch that lets you get into two (without console cheating), but no valid way to get into all three of the houses.

And the FG and TG only contradict each other in certain paths.

Falselogic
12-08-2011, 03:06 PM
Okay, so now I'm the head of the Morag Tong but somehow botched the Sanguine missions despite having collected all 27 pieces of loot. That is annoying.

I've started some of the mainline quest and I have to know does this Messiah plot do anything interesting or is it all on rails?

Falselogic
12-12-2011, 11:05 AM
I beat it... I thought the messiah angle was cool as was meeting with the demigods Vivec and Dagoth-Ur. I'm kinda bummed though that you can't do anything but destroy the Heart of Lorkhan... Especially since bothe Vivec and Dagoth-Ur talk about using it to become immortal and Dagoth actually asks what you're going to do with the the Heart and Akulakhanand and you can tell him you plan on using them to become a god and conquer the world. But the game doesn't let you do those things at all...

Lame

Anyway so I've transported to Mournhold to do the Tribunal expansion but I might lay off the game for awhile.

Gaer
12-12-2011, 07:00 PM
Just wondering if anyone here is playing modded Oblivion with OOO.

I modded the shit out of my game and it's running at a really shitty framerate outside and I can't figure out why. Even with the better textures, my rig ought to absolutely destroy the game.

Specs:

i5 960
8GB RAM
Radeon 5870 w/ 2GB VRAM

I even installed the low poly grass mod and it hasn't helped.

Pretty much every other game I've thrown at it runs at 1080p 60fps no matter what.