PDA

View Full Version : BioShock, Pt. 1 -- beginning through Arcadia


Parish
08-21-2007, 04:57 PM
Yes, game of the year or whatever the forums kids are saying. Chatter away.

BioShock
Irrational | Xbox 360/PC | FPS | Rated M | August 21, 2007

I have no idea what the natural divisions of this game are, so I will leave it to your discretion. When you start getting into territory that you think is pretty dang spoiler-ish, move to the second part. I'd recommend keeping the story talk largely contained to later topics and focus more on general strategies here.

Please do discuss your strategies and overall approach to the game here. Apparently it's insanely flexible, beyond whether you'll let the Little Sisters live or die; Sharkey was telling me about how he basically turned the wrench into the greatest weapon ever and beat the game without killing much of anything by cranking up his passive bonuses and stealth skills. Be creative in playing, and verbose in posting.

The MGS3 topic will stay open through the end of the week, although it seems most everyone has drifted away.

Figure Four
08-21-2007, 05:04 PM
What's everyone doing in regards to the whole "harvest or rescue" little sister question? I'm going with the harvest route. (Mainly because of the Tenebaum recording where she talking about doing experiments for the Germans during war when she was a child: No one that creepy is trustworthy.)

I also found out that the early Big Daddies aren't so big if you've got a full supply of frag grenades.

reibeatall
08-21-2007, 05:11 PM
I don't want to talk too much about it right now, but I just have to comment on the Big Daddys (or is it Daddies?).

First off, they don't attack you until you attack them. When you first get near them, they kinda make some grunting noises and point their drill at you. Get closer and they yell, paralyzing you. If you get too close, he rushes up towards you, gets in your face, and SHOVES you. It doesn't hurt you at all, it just knocks you back.
Edit: Turns out, if you keep fucking with them, he WILL attack you.
If you back off and watch the Big Daddy and the Little Sister, they really are that, a dad and a little girl. When the Little Sister is done, she talks to the Big Daddy, and he pats her on the head and then they turn around and walk off, with the little sister singing a little song.

poetfox
08-21-2007, 05:15 PM
Suggestions for breaks from someone who's beat the game: Start through all of Arcadia; Fort Frolic to DRAMATIC PLOT TWIST; Then to the end.

That might leave the beginning to be the biggest section, but that's not too bad...

Eusis
08-21-2007, 05:42 PM
Yeah, I have to admit I'm throwing in the towel for MGS3. I just received Persona 3 and will try to get Bioshock for $50 today rather than wait. I'll pick up MGS3 later on though since I'd like to get the Stealth and screw around with the guards.

Jakanden
08-21-2007, 05:46 PM
I didn't get home till late tonight (riding home in the rain on a motorcycle = not fun) and I am only up to the point where the demo ends. I will chime in later tonight.

SlimJimm
08-21-2007, 05:47 PM
I was lucky to find one today at 10:30 this morning at my local Circuit City, and Im happy to have gotten it. I breezed through the demo section going to the Medical Pavilion and found quite a few Gene Tonics already. In fact, all but 1 of my slots is full. Also there is a LOT of hacking in this game. Im glad you are given a lot of hacking-type tonics early on.

Also I rescued the first two Little Sisters. I know I get less ADAM, but the German woman (whats her name?) says she would make it worth my while. I wonder how cool the actual reward might be.

But there is a Huge problem with my game now. I played for about an hour and then had some errands to run during the day. When I came back several hours later the game froze on me twice and I had to power off the console and turn it back on. Then the game gave me a message about the disc being dirty and should be wiped off. Its a new game, and I hardly touched my XBox except for some occasional Gears of War or XBLA.


Now when I play the game it will pause for 1-3 seconds every couple of minutes. Its almost like lag, or loading, but no loading seems to occur. Everything in game just freezes, then returns to normal. This is ruining what should be an incredible gaming experience. >:O

Anyone have the same problem, or know how to correct this?

reibeatall
08-21-2007, 05:51 PM
I've had a few issues. Once, the game just started making this really loud THUD THUD THUD THUD sound, but I went to the dashboard and it stopped. And one time while I was running away from a Big Daddy, it lag/loaded for about 2 or 3 seconds.

Niku
08-21-2007, 05:51 PM
So, I'm three "levels" in. That is to say, the tutorial, the medical bay, and Neptune's bounty. I'm not going to talk about many specifics just yet, or expound too much on the things we all know perfectly clearly by this point: the game is absolutely gorgeous, and plays wonderfully.

HARVEST OR RESCUE: I hope there's a place in Heaven for freaky little girls, because poppa needs a new pair of decoy plasmids. I'm harvesting them because a.) most people I've talked to so far are rescuing them, b.) the first playthrough it would seem prudent to walk the line that gives me the access to the most stuff, so I'll know what I want to use in my second playthrough, and c.) pretty much everyone I know expects me to anyway, so why buck what works?

GHOSTS: Maybe this is something that will pay-off later, but the appearance of System Shock-ish ghosts (the first one is in the bathrooms in the tutorial) seems almost entirely unneeded so far, and juuuuust a little bit jarring. I much prefer the radio diaries.

PLAYSTYLE: I find myself currently decked out with four Plasmid slots (containing Electo Bolt, Incinerate, Telekenesis, and HA HA YOU'RE BLUE AND TECHOLOGY HATES YOU), and I'm using tonics that up my wrench damage and do so still further when sneaking up unawares on people, as well as a first-aid efficiency boost and one that restores some EVE with every first-aid kit used. I just upgraded my machine gun to have less recoil, as it's become my primary Big Daddy damage dealer outside of grenades.

Honestly? I was disappointed to get the grenade launcher. Fighting the first Big Daddy in Neptune's Bounty was a total thrill, involving hacking the machine gun turrets in the room and taking out some splicers before getting his attention, and doing my damndest to alternate between hosing him with the machine gun and telekenetically catching grenades to throw in his face. Did a die a lot? Absolutely. But it's certainly fun to try! Having the grenade launcher means I can do a bit too much damage to him too quickly, though that's why I've pretty much refused to pull it out since obtaining it.

I honestly hope there's a way to start from the beginning with all your plasmids, so that you can work your way through the full game with the entire selection at your fingertips. If you only ever have Plasmid X after Level Y for every playthrough, that'd be kinda disappointing.

And now, back to being stuck at work and staring enviously at my friends list on xbox.com.

EDIT:

Anyone have the same problem, or know how to correct this?
The dirty disc error is something second only to the red ring of death, from what I've been hearing. I don't know much about it personally, but trying poking around on Google.

poetfox
08-21-2007, 06:04 PM
I honestly hope there's a way to start from the beginning with all your plasmids, so that you can work your way through the full game with the entire selection at your fingertips. If you only ever have Plasmid X after Level Y for every playthrough, that'd be kinda disappointing.

If there's an option like that, I don't see it... maybe it's not obvious?

Niku
08-21-2007, 06:09 PM
Yeah. After typing that, I realize the way the game is scripted might make it so sequence breaking (HI SUPER METROID THREAD) would go screwy a bit with the gameworld, so I can understand WHY they wouldn't put the option in. And you can always backtrack, of course. I just think it would be nice to be able to, say, fire it up one day with the intent of an ONLY TRAPS FROM BEGINNING TO END run or something like that. As it is, I'll always probably end up doing the first boss exactly the same way (fire leads him to water, electricity leads him to land, rinse repeat) every playthrough, and that's just a little bit disappointing.

Parish
08-21-2007, 06:14 PM
DRAMATIC PLOT TWIST
That's almost helpful, except not. Care to offer a location name? That's not a spoiler if we don't know what happens there.

Sharkey
08-21-2007, 06:51 PM
I'm kind of a wrench evangelist now. By about halfway through the game you can get a wrench with a couple damage bonuses, a high chance of freezing whatever you hit, faster movement and swing rate, muffled footsteps and a damage bonus against unaware opponents, and free health whenever you whack someone. It's tricky, but yes, you can totally kill a big daddy with just the wrench.

This can happen so early that I don't really think it counts as a spoiler:

Rescuing the little girls will eventually get you a couple of "hypnotize big daddy" plasmids. You want this. No fucking kidding. If you ever want to try to get through the game without firing a shot, this would be a great way of doing it, though a single use of the thing taps out an entire eve bar and it doesn't last incredibly long until you get the upgraded version. Still, making two big daddies duke it out while you stand by and watch, only to pick off the weakened victor? Fuckawesome. Only thing that could make it better would be Godzilla music. Or if I could get the game to spawn more than two of them at once.

Also, that chameleon plasmid is your best friend. Sure, the "wooop, pooowoo" noises of it turning off and on whenever you move can be kind of annoying, but it makes a lot of things really easy. If you have that bonus to wrench damage on unaware targets it's great for sneaking up on guys or just waiting for them to walk right up to you. Better, if a camera happens to spot you, just stop in your tracks and it'll forget you're there. Even if you screw up and get a bunch of helicopters buzzing around, if you go invisible you can just wait out the timer.

Stacking a couple of those "burst of electricity whenever something whacks me" plasmids, coupled with a pair of the ones that give a bonus to electrical damage is just plain unreal. Kills or stuns just about anything. Downside: it'll piss off any big daddies nearby, even if you have them friendly. I probably would have used this for the entire game if not for that.

Worth noting: you can't die from hacking failures. You can take damage until your bar is almost empty, but screwing up will never finish you off. If you're going to make repeated attempts don't bother healing until you're done.

Finally, you can't electrocute yourself, even if you're standing in water and flinging lightning at your own invisible feet. I probably would have been bolder with my zapping if I'd realized that sooner.

Savathun
08-21-2007, 07:16 PM
Oh... my god.

I just started the game. I hadn't played the demo, but I kind of knew what to expect.

This isn't really a spoiler because it's the opening, but when I got in the bathysphere and Ryan's voice over comes on and the spooky music starts playing, I thought "Hey, this is pretty neat..."

And then it got to the part where he says "I chose... Rapture." I literally got the chills. That was amazing. I mean, seriously, I'm won over already. That was the coolest thing they could have possibly done. My mouth is still wide open. I can't wait to see what else it throws at me.

Jakanden
08-21-2007, 08:04 PM
I just beat the Doctor and I can see exactly what they mean by multiple methods for the encounters. After I beat him I checked out his area and saw a oil slick for Inferno, some containers of gas for telekinesis and so on.

I ended up hacking both the security bots and drawing him out to get creamed by them while I just sat there till they were done.

Damn this game rocks.

Jakanden
08-21-2007, 08:05 PM
Rescuing the little girls will eventually get you a couple of "hypnotize big daddy" plasmids. You want this. No fucking kidding. If you ever want to try to get through the game without firing a shot, this would be a great way of doing it, though a single use of the thing taps out an entire eve bar and it doesn't last incredibly long until you get the upgraded version. Still, making two big daddies duke it out while you stand by and watch, only to pick off the weakened victor? Fuckawesome. Only thing that could make it better would be Godzilla music. Or if I could get the game to spawn more than two of them at once.

I was thinking about going down the "Evil path" and killing em off. Do you happen to know what the evil equivalent of that plasmid is?

ringworm
08-21-2007, 08:19 PM
Man I cannot for the life of me figure out how to change which plasmids/tonics I have equipped...

Figure Four
08-21-2007, 08:24 PM
You can change your plasmids at the Gene Backs. They're sitting around the levels like the vending machines.

Who ever came up with the cyclone trap deserves a medal. Hearing the splicers' surprised yelps as they're flung into the air never gets old.

Savathun
08-21-2007, 09:06 PM
Cute story:

I just found my first Wrench Jockey plasmid and as I'm sneaking back out of the grate, I see a splicer. I whacked her in the back of her head, which sent her bunny mask flying.

I happen to swing again, by reflex and slammed the wrench into the mask -- still in mid-air -- completely disintegrating it before the splicer's corpse even hit the ground.

p-natsu
08-21-2007, 09:31 PM
I'm saving all the little sisters for the achievement. Plus, after you save a group (three L.S.) they leave you a cute lil teddy bear present! Inside is a bunch of Adam (like, 200 or something), and some other neat things -- sometimes even tonics! HELL YES. I think saving them is worth it. Yeah sometimes I wish I had more slots, but I have the Electricity armor tonic thing that blasts any ambushers. Whenever I'm overwhelmed by a sudden rush of splicers, they always just end up killing themselves by hitting me LOL. This tonic is so freaking overpowered. I one-shot splicers w/o doing anything. Unreal.

Besides electricity plasmid, my weapons of choice are the pistol (one antipersonnel shot to the head usually kills a splicer at adaquete range) and shotgun blasts for big daddies and security cams.

Um, not sure if this is within the scope of this thread, but I'm in the dental area of the Medical Pavillion. STOP READING if you aren't here yet.

--
But yes -- I screwed up my game, I think. Right after you get the Telekinesis plasmid, you can open up this door in the dental ward by pulling the key on a way through a broken window so you can unlock the damn doors. But, I accidentally pulled it to me and released the key back before picking it up. It flew away from me, ricocheting to God knows where and I couldn't get it back. Basically.. it sucks. I probably missed out on some diary tapes (Noo!! historian achievementtttt).
--

Andrew
08-21-2007, 09:42 PM
So when one "saves" a Little Sister, do you have to kill the Big Daddy protecting it and then say "eh, but you're free to go."? Or is it okay to leave them all alone entirely?

How it is really "saving" them to leave them without a protector?

ringworm
08-21-2007, 09:46 PM
You can change your plasmids at the Gene Backs. They're sitting around the levels like the vending machines.
i r dum

This game is awesome! It's nice to finally see what this fancy new hardware I bought can do. Previously the only PC game I had played on it was WoW, and that didn't really push its limits.

I'm having some weird sound errors though, periodically sound will just start cutting out intermittantly. It seems to mostly happen in rooms where water is pooring down (so every other room). It is really annoying, especially since I often tell enemy positioning by sound.

How it is really "saving" them to leave them without a protector?
Answering that question is a bit of a spoiler...

reibeatall
08-21-2007, 09:47 PM
So when one "saves" a Little Sister, do you have to kill the Big Daddy protecting it and then say "eh, but you're free to go."? Or is it okay to leave them all alone entirely?

How it is really "saving" them to leave them without a protector?

You have to kill the Big Daddy. Kinda messed up, because I didn't want to kill any of them.

p-natsu
08-21-2007, 10:09 PM
Well, luckily you only have to kill the ones that have Little Sisters... kinda sick, I know. After I saved all the L.S. in an area, I would just leave the big palookas alone. Though, occasionally I'd accidentally aggro one because I was in a firefight with a splicer, or electrified some water, or hit it with plasmid cast-off. :( Then I'd have to fight them. So sad.

There's another instance where I didn't want to fight someone, but I had to because of careless electricity.. but I won't say who b/c that'll be spoilers!

Andrew
08-21-2007, 10:11 PM
Makes sense in game logic anyway....

But I'm glad to hear saving them doesn't mean sacrificing Adam. I at least want my extra plasmid slots!

Only after looking over the achievement list did I realize that you can hack cameras.

I was chilling in a bathroom raiding for items and I hear enemies that set off the alarm, and when I leave I find one or two that made it and a bunch of splicer bodies.

The only thing that almost ruins it is that the game is rather easy, but that's still cool. It's easy in a SOTN kind of way. Starts out tricky, but you practically become a god with all you powers you get and all the ways you learn to exploit your talents.

Also, yeah, the Big Daddies are awesome. Too bad killing them reaps great rewards. :(

Jakanden
08-21-2007, 10:55 PM
I finished the Neptune's bounty and I am now going to bed as I am dead tired.

I did get my Skilled Hacker (50 hacks) achievement though so I am happy.

reibeatall
08-21-2007, 11:02 PM
The only thing that almost ruins it is that the game is rather easy, but that's still cool. It's easy in a SOTN kind of way. Starts out tricky, but you practically become a god with all you powers you get and all the ways you learn to exploit your talents.


You must not be playing on Hard. I've gotta take my time, or else I'm screwed.

p-natsu
08-21-2007, 11:05 PM
I'm playing on Easy for 360 right now. :P So cheap, I know, but I suck something awful at console shooters. I'm going to grab a PC copy and play through it on hard for my final achievements round-up afterwards though.

In what ways does the game get harder on Hard when compared to Easy, I wonder? The enemy A.I. seems to be kind of stupid sometimes... Well, it's within character, actually, because the splicers seem bent on destruction, so it makes sense that they'd come after you with near reckless abandon, without much thought for tactics... But there are a few times where you're supposed to be "overwhelmed" by incoming splicers, like at the end of the demo, but if you find the right corner to stand in, the splicers basically bottleneck and come at you in single-file, making them ridiculously easy to pick off. But I guess that's true to life too..?

poetfox
08-21-2007, 11:11 PM
That's almost helpful, except not. Care to offer a location name? That's not a spoiler if we don't know what happens there.
I think that'll be pretty obvious when you get there... but I can't remember the name of the area said twist happens in off the top of my head. Let me check... and... okay, so, Fort Frolic through all of Hephaestus. That'll actually be kinda shorter than the other chunks, playwise, but plotwise that's a good place for a cutoff.

Also, I pretty well suck at shooters, and had no problem playing on normal. It's fairly forgiving... I do wonder if it would be more survival horror style with little ammo on hard, though... my brother seems to want the game to be that.

reibeatall
08-21-2007, 11:12 PM
As far as I can tell, the enemies deal a lot more damage, and they've got tons of health. In the tutorial stage on Easy and Normal, when Atlus tells you to "give 'em the ol' one-two", that kills the splicers. On hard, it takes a few more hits, or hitting them on the back of the head. As for the AI, I'm not sure.

Niku
08-22-2007, 12:10 AM
I'm beginning to wish, just a bit, that I had just bit the bullet and started myself out playing on Hard mode. I've got so much ammo due to all my wrenching and enough money to keep me in first-aid kits forever. On top of that, if you're patient, you can basically never lose seeing as how there's no penalty for getting sent to revive chamber.

Anyway, I finished Arcadia just now and decided to stop for the night. I've become something of a wrench/stealth whore myself just because I don't need to do any of that pesky "aiming" stuff that shooters are always asking from me, and thusly I've actually begun to improve my various tonic slots rather than buy new plasmids (so no cyclone trap or beehive arm for me just yet!). I THINK I've found all the diary entries up to this point, but time will tell. Oh, and re: the dentist key, I had the same thing happen to me. Just keep searching around and zapping your telekenesis randomly, and you might find it eventually like I did.

You can level up your research once you get the camera pretty obscenely fast just by taking multiple pictures of each enemy. You'll get less of a bonus per shot, but film is cheap and the extra will add up. I've already got three enemy types fully researched, and I'm pretty sure I'm getting close on one or two more. The benefits for it are pretty great as well (helloooo chameleon tonic).

Also, the first introduction to Houdini Splicers is probably the jump-out-of-your-seat-iest damn thing in the game so far.

Parish
08-22-2007, 12:22 AM
I think that'll be pretty obvious when you get there...
OK, but I won't be getting there for weeks, maybe months. Anyway, thanks!

Sarcasmorator
08-22-2007, 01:32 AM
I'm loving the game play so far, and the atmosphere, but unfortunately some of the effect of the early levels has been dampened by my annoyance at technical difficulties. This game has some serious Windows compatibility problems. Not a knock on the game itself, though — I love everything else about it.

Savathun
08-22-2007, 01:45 AM
That respawn chamber really takes you out of the game, too. Well, not a *lot,* but why don't the splicers and others use it too? Well, because that'd make for stupidly annoying, Gauntlet-like gameplay.

Oh, also, I've got the plasmid blues. :(

Adrenaline
08-22-2007, 05:43 AM
I'm annoyed I played the PC demo because now I just really want to play it, and it just doesn't look that good on my system. My friend just got it on 360, so I'll hopefully get to play through it at some point in the near future. Just thinking, is there any real reason they wouldn't port it to PS3 sometime down the road?

jeditanuki
08-22-2007, 06:58 AM
Got past Steinman last night and needed a break. I wasted way too much Eve and health not understanding how the first part of the boss battle (on the balcony) was supposed to go. Also, I regret dumping my electricity for telekinesis.

Sarcasmorator
08-22-2007, 08:54 AM
That respawn chamber really takes you out of the game, too. Well, not a *lot,* but why don't the splicers and others use it too? Well, because that'd make for stupidly annoying, Gauntlet-like gameplay.(

Arbitrary explanations I just made up: Their genetic structures are too corrupt to restore. The machine won't do it for them anymore.

reibeatall
08-22-2007, 10:27 AM
Just met the Houdini Splicer, and just kinda stared at the screen after his "dissapearing trick."

Sharkey
08-22-2007, 11:39 AM
Photograph the little sisters. It gives you a health and eve bonus. I didn't even think of trying it until near the end of the game.

Jakanden
08-22-2007, 11:46 AM
Just met the Houdini Splicer, and just kinda stared at the screen after his "dissapearing trick."

Yeah I am still working out how best to deal with them myself.

I have been photographing everything I come across and it has gotten me some nice bonuses and skills.

Jakanden
08-22-2007, 12:10 PM
Finally, you can't electrocute yourself, even if you're standing in water and flinging lightning at your own invisible feet. I probably would have been bolder with my zapping if I'd realized that sooner.

It is shocking me when I do it. I am using a level 2 shock and playing on hard though. Might that be the difference?

Figure Four
08-22-2007, 12:33 PM
Yeah I am still working out how best to deal with them myself.

I have been photographing everything I come across and it has gotten me some nice bonuses and skills.

I've found that an electroshock right after they appear followed by a shotgun blast to the face does wonders. Though since I powered up my shotgun I've been forgoing the electroshock in favor of two quick shots.

Sharkey
08-22-2007, 12:40 PM
Also, photographing the Houdinis a bunch makes their teleports easier to track.

Jakanden
08-22-2007, 01:06 PM
Yeah I have a fully powered up Shotgun now and that is what I have been using on them.

I am still a huge fan of the hacking though and it is one of my main methods. I tend to set off the camera to summon a bot, hack the camera and then hack the bot so that it follows me. I also like to draw splicers to the hacked stationary turrets and relax. I also snagged the camo skill so I also turn invis to let the splicers come right up on me before wacking them.

Aside from that, I stick to level 2 shock with wrench/shotgun.

reibeatall
08-22-2007, 01:17 PM
I just killed a Big Daddy without a Little Sister present. I know that Little Sisters only come out when Big Daddy bangs on the wall, so am I pretty much fucked? Or do the Big Daddies respawn?

Stiv
08-22-2007, 01:26 PM
I just killed a Big Daddy without a Little Sister present. I know that Little Sisters only come out when Big Daddy bangs on the wall, so am I pretty much fucked? Or do the Big Daddies respawn?

No idea if you can get the Little Sister out of the wall or not, but this happened to me - and you're only fucked because you have to fight the Big Daddy again. Not cool if you used up a lot of your specialized ammo on him or are running out of EVE.

I've been trying to balance between harvesting and saving the Sisters (harvest when I need more slots, save otherwise) but Sharkey's right about the game being too easy if you use the wrench a lot, even without all the powerups - which just means you're playing the game like it's System Shock 2, which isn't unreasonable, because it pretty much is. I'm almost to the sub bay now and I already think I know what (one of?) the game's "big twist" is because it's pretty much given away in a tape message. Good job, jerk!

I also think it's kind of bullshit that there's a 360 achievement for saving all the Little Sisters - it changes it from a moral choice (okay, at least the first time you have to choose it feels like an ethical dilemma) to a strictly gameplay choice. Somehow I don't think that was Levine's idea.

Figure Four
08-22-2007, 01:29 PM
Don't worry, Big Daddies respawn.

Funny thing happened. During the bit where you have to protect Langford's office there was a Big Daddy wandering around inside the lab. I was trying to just avoid him but that was a huge pain so I hit him with enrage and watched as he tore through all the splicers. Then when they were all gone I just hit him with some armor piercing machine gun rounds to finish him off. Man I love this game.

Alixsar
08-22-2007, 02:13 PM
I also think it's kind of bullshit that there's a 360 achievement for saving all the Little Sisters - it changes it from a moral choice (okay, at least the first time you have to choose it feels like an ethical dilemma) to a strictly gameplay choice. Somehow I don't think that was Levine's idea.

Not to mention that you get "prizes" for saving them. I honestly don't know why you'd bother harvesting them. You still get Adam, and you eventually get some sweet toys to play with that you wouldn't have otherwise. It's a win-win situation.

But anyway, yeah. It's a great game, and pretty open-ended. The boss fight with ***** ******* is a great example. You lose all of your weapons before the fight except the wrench. You can either melt the ice near the door, go inside and get a pistol, and then shoot him. Or you can tag him with that one plasmid that makes cameras friendly and let that kill him. Or you can lure him onto the puddles of oil and burn him. Or you could use enrage on his friends and have them kill him. Or you can do what I did. Purposefully trigger the alarm, shut it off after a bot comes, hack it, hack the turret at the end of the room, blow him up to lure him into water, electrocute him, freeze and then whack his buddies, and then melee him to death with your wrench after doing the blow up/electrocute thing a few times. Awesome stuff.

I forget who it was, but someone else mentioned stopping after the first Houdini Splicer, which is exactly where I stopped too (not because I wanted to but because it was past 5 AM). A pretty great game so far.

*I don't know how to do that thing where the text is white, so if you don't like spoilers just stop reading my post here*

That part in the sub bay was pretty intense. I kept trying to find a way out to go help Atlas, but of course there wasn't. And his family...well, that seemed kind of obvious. But still, I can't help but wonder who the hell this guy is. And imagine my surprise when in the next area, posters with a heroic figure and the words "Who is Atlas?" on them were all over the wall. My working theory is that he either IS Fontaine (and he never died like everyone said) or that he was one of his pals (which I feel is pretty safe to say at the very least). I hope they tell more of the main character's past too. There's no way in hell he's just some random nobody. No way. But oh well.

Savathun
08-22-2007, 03:19 PM
Arbitrary explanations I just made up: Their genetic structures are too corrupt to restore. The machine won't do it for them anymore.

Hey, that's not bad. I usually have to come up with little things like that when something pulls me out of the experience, but that never occurred to me.

Seems like a pretty good explanation to me.

And I'm a little dissapointed that I haven't seen anything too monstrous so far. I mean, people with pipes and guns are kinda freaky, but I was hoping for something a little more hideous from these splicers. Like, say, someone who went a little overboard and suddenly has a giant wasp's head and wings, that kind of thing. Maybe it comes later.

And remember, if you don't go to the game, Atlas's bandits win!

Stiv
08-22-2007, 05:26 PM
Not to mention that you get "prizes" for saving them. I honestly don't know why you'd bother harvesting them. You still get Adam, and you eventually get some sweet toys to play with that you wouldn't have otherwise. It's a win-win situation.

I think this is perfectly acceptable because you'll always have less ADAM than if you'd harvested (as far as I can tell, I haven't gotten the second reward) and it makes sense from a story perspective. I just don't like there being an external compulsion to only save the sisters - that's something that honestly should be its own reward (since it apparently gives you the "good" ending, as well). But we all know achievements are ridiculous anyway, so!

Or you can lure him onto the puddles of oil and burn him.

Or he can throw a grenade onto the oil and blow himself the hell up. That's what happened in my game, which made the fight significantly easier. You'd think enemies would be more aware of environmental hazards, even on normal. This happened with a couple of the Houdini splicers as well.

Sarcasmorator
08-22-2007, 06:54 PM
Hey, that's not bad. I usually have to come up with little things like that when something pulls me out of the experience, but that never occurred to me.

Seems like a pretty good explanation to me.

I can rationalize almost any plot hole! It's my mutant power.

If they're going to reward you for saving all the sisters, then they should do the same for killing them all. That's only fair.

Guy
08-22-2007, 10:25 PM
I never realized how much of a difference that wrench power-up tonic makes until I tried smashing frozen splicers with and without it. Without it I couldn't even finish the job, but with it it only takes a couple of swings. So awesome.

So, I've been saving little sisters. What's this about more slots? Are you guys just saying you have plenty more ADAM to spend on slots, or do you get some sort of slot-related reward for harvesting? Also, how do you get the Chameleon tonic? Is there a specific splicer you have to research, or is it simply a question of how much research you've done in general?

Niku
08-22-2007, 11:38 PM
Yeah, you just get tons of Adam for harvesting the Little Sisters. 160 a pop or so. The Chameleon Tonic is obtained by researching Houdinis. I .. think that's what I got it from, anyway.

Alixsar
08-23-2007, 04:46 AM
Yeah, you just get tons of Adam for harvesting the Little Sisters. 160 a pop or so. The Chameleon Tonic is obtained by researching Houdinis. I .. think that's what I got it from, anyway.

So, 160 a pop or 80 a pop and 200, as well as some abilities and items you can't get any other way, every few that you rescue. Still sounds like a win-win to me. I really don't see a point in harvesting them, except maybe getting a different ending or something.

PhoenixUltima
08-24-2007, 08:10 AM
That respawn chamber really takes you out of the game, too. Well, not a *lot,* but why don't the splicers and others use it too? Well, because that'd make for stupidly annoying, Gauntlet-like gameplay.

There's actually an official reason why only you can use it. I won't say what it is because it's a huge spoiler, but when you get to the big cheese's office look around for an audio diary labelled "The Vita Chamber".

Niku
08-24-2007, 06:19 PM
I'm up to Arcadia on my more leisurely Hard mode playthrough wherein I'm actually using my guns rather than my wrench the entire time, and I figured anyone who actually wants the achiements would want to know that if you don't save the little sisters, you're not only knocking off the Sister Savior achievement, but also Tonic Collector. Additionally, if you didn't get one of the two diaries in the very first area (I missed one somehow! I got it in the tutorial and for some reason thought I had gotten it in my actual playthrough), you can't go back to get it.

Playing with guns just makes things even more harrowing, because I am an AWFUL aim.

Swordian
08-24-2007, 09:55 PM
So, I'm in the second area right now and I'm finding the game is hard for me to play for long periods because it is freaking me the fuck out. I broke into a dentist's office, dodged around like a spaz when everything was obscured by mist, but was relieved when the mist cleared and nobody was there. I searched around for bit, scavenged here and there, and then picked up the tantalizing speed hack. Everything was obscured by mist again and I did a quick 180 and immediately I felt adrenaline shoot through me as a doctor was standing mere inches away. I then fired far too many pistol shots into him in my panicked state. I love this game.

Issun
08-25-2007, 09:32 PM
I. Love. This. Game. It's the very reason I got a 360, and it's done nothing but not dissapoint.
I'm only at the Smuggler's Hideout, and Swordian, I totally understand. Looking twice around every corner while starting at noises that aren't even Splicers or Big Daddys takes a lot out of you. Even Eternal Darkness didn't freak me out this much.

Vahn16
08-26-2007, 01:45 AM
I like that I constantly feel on edge while playing the game, but not in an old-school Resident Evil "I've gotta get out of here" sort of way. Instead, I feel like I can handle just about any situation with my fire and bees -- the edginess I feel comes from the lack of combat while I hear those noises. It leads me to back into corners (you know, to avoid enemies on all sides) and bring out my all-purpose powers. I will admit that I've jumped a few times over the course of the game though. I know, even the manliest men feel fear occasionally.

Sharkey
08-27-2007, 01:09 PM
It's good to know that there's a healthy freak-out factor to this. Em started playing, and she's been tiptoeing everywhere, spinning around to look behind her whenever she bumps something with her feet, and just generally being scared as hell.

Videogames may not desensitize you to violence, but I think they may have desensitized me to startlement and uneasiness. Even on hard I've found myself pretty much just motoring around, eating everything alive, and stacking big daddy corpses in giant piles for giggles.

"You don't understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me."

Sean
08-27-2007, 04:20 PM
No idea if you can get the Little Sister out of the wall or not, but this happened to me - and you're only fucked because you have to fight the Big Daddy again. Not cool if you used up a lot of your specialized ammo on him or are running out of EVE.

I've been trying to balance between harvesting and saving the Sisters (harvest when I need more slots, save otherwise) but Sharkey's right about the game being too easy if you use the wrench a lot, even without all the powerups - which just means you're playing the game like it's System Shock 2, which isn't unreasonable, because it pretty much is. I'm almost to the sub bay now and I already think I know what (one of?) the game's "big twist" is because it's pretty much given away in a tape message. Good job, jerk!

I also think it's kind of bullshit that there's a 360 achievement for saving all the Little Sisters - it changes it from a moral choice (okay, at least the first time you have to choose it feels like an ethical dilemma) to a strictly gameplay choice. Somehow I don't think that was Levine's idea.

This is exactly why I don't read the achievements before playing story-intensive games. I want to know as little as I can about games like BioShock, and the achievements are fairly specific plot-wise.

Pawelmaji
08-27-2007, 07:04 PM
Glad I picked up this game.
I think the story telling in this game is top notch.

What I really like about the game is how you use the environment to overcome obstacles. Like using incinerate on oil slicks, lightning on water, telekinesis to pick up and launch flying explosives, or even hacking gun turrets to establish a defensive perimeter.

When I had to choose between extracting or saving lil' sisters. I have to hand it to the writers that they gave good reasons to not save them. Atlas telling you it's ok (he's helped you out so far you can trust him right?). That scientist woman with no empathy (but why is she showing it now for lil' sisters?). Everything has gone to hell and it's everybody for themselves, I might have to put my morals aside in order to survive, like Atlas implies.

From a purely gameplay prespective, this game is a tired generic FPS. It's the subtle details and atmosphere, and dare I say role playing, that make this game good.