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Adam
06-14-2010, 01:52 PM
Having players pipe up once or so per day to go 'me too' ain't an improvement over in Upside, bricky :(

I heard something in the vents hiss "Hey, shutting up *is* my strategy"

Mr. J
06-14-2010, 01:55 PM
Would you have told us if Pappy was a Thing, Paul? Or is it a mystery until the end?

I would like to know about this also.

Dizzy
06-14-2010, 06:25 PM
There's a page-long slap fight where Brickroad and Dizzy argue against kaisel and Tock as to the optimal strategy.


My final comment about kaisel was sarcastic. I did not mean to insult him at all, and was cluing about something else. But ah, no one seemed to caught on so whatevs.

FOR THE RECORD! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZS7Jdg24j4)

kaisel
06-14-2010, 06:38 PM
My final comment about kaisel was sarcastic. I did not mean to insult him at all, and was cluing about something else. But ah, no one seemed to caught on so whatevs.

FOR THE RECORD! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZS7Jdg24j4)

I thought there was a chance you were sarcastic, but I figured there's a decent amount of people who agree with Brickroad about essentially playing both sides, so it was good to at least try to argue.

Paul le Fou
06-14-2010, 07:02 PM
Here was the deal with Pappy - he hadn't posted in the thread forever, as you know. I PM'd him and asked if he was coming back, and he gave the old "Sorry I've been really busy, I'm definitely coming back though." Then he went a whole 'nother game day without posting, so.

That said, I might be willing to let someone sub in for him (before the next day begins, so the timeframe's a little tight). It's still night, and yeah he got torn to pieces but you can separate the flavor text from the game mechanics in this case and consider his "replacement" an actual replacement for his same spot. For that reason I won't be revealing his role. I killed Eirikr unilaterally because you were already one up on the other deck, but this does put the total down one (such that the winning conditions are changed) so I'll be more flexible.

THAT SAID, I had an issue with a possible sub (for Eirikr) earlier who people had already been talking to about the game and revealing their roles and such, so when it came time to sub my candidate felt it wasn't fair because they knew too much already. So please, consider it an honor system thing that you won't volunteer to sub in if you already know too much about the players/game on that deck.

Dizzy
06-14-2010, 07:04 PM
THAT SAID, I had an issue with a possible sub (for Eirikr) earlier who people had already been talking to about the game and revealing their roles and such

I am flabbergasted, sir. Who dares breaks the rules of this game like that!?

Can you sub in Eddie or Bongo? I'm assuming they know little of the Lower Deck and would like to try their luck again.

Eddie
06-14-2010, 07:17 PM
I am flabbergasted, sir. Who dares breaks the rules of this game like that!?

Can you sub in Eddie or Bongo? I'm assuming they know little of the Lower Deck and would like to try their luck again.

Complete disclosure: I revealed to Brickroad I was/when I became (pick whichever you want to believe) PRCY, with Paul's permission. I did not ask, and he did not/has not revealed his allegiance to me. Me and Brick have not had any discussion about the game except for Brickroad informing me I was playing on "the wrong deck" (ha ha ha).

I'm cool subbing in for Pappy, but I feel two conditions should be made for me to join:

1) Paul must allow it (I mean outside of "the rules," he must be okay with it personally.)
2) Anyone who has a problem with it should message Paul and tell him so. I personally think that even one 'nay' from lower deck should be enough to disqualify me, but that decision should be left to Paul.

- Eddie

Paul le Fou
06-14-2010, 07:34 PM
Yeah, I generally have no problem with people talking to non-players about the game. It's just that then those people probably shouldn't become players because they've been getting an unfair perspective on things and coming in with different knowledge. Anyway, there's 36 hours. Eddie's candidacy as a replacement is on the table, but if people don't think he should come in or don't want anyone to come in, speak up.

Brickroad
06-14-2010, 07:37 PM
Welcome to the right deck, bro.

Eddie
06-14-2010, 07:40 PM
You don't understand.

I got kicked out of heaven.

- Eddie

Kayma
06-14-2010, 07:57 PM
Considering there's no scanner to autolynch, I'm all for Eddie joining our ranks. Welcome aboard, mate!

kaisel
06-14-2010, 08:32 PM
Considering there's no scanner to autolynch, I'm all for Eddie joining our ranks. Welcome aboard, mate!

Sweet, my autolynch buddy's back. Welcome aboard Eddie.

McClain
06-14-2010, 08:33 PM
So if Pappy was a Thing, presumably Eddie would join as a Thing, right?

You guys gotta let him in just so you can try to kill him again.

Adam
06-14-2010, 08:42 PM
So if Pappy was a Thing, presumably Eddie would join as a Thing, right?

You guys gotta let him in just so you can try to kill him again.

Seriously, it's so much fun, guys (note to Paul: I am actually voting that killing Eddie is so much fun, guys)

Eddie
06-14-2010, 08:43 PM
Guys, two things:

1) I'm not back yet.
2) I'M TOTALLY BRINGING AUTO-LYNCH BACK. No I'm not, in fact I'd rather not talk about it at all until the next true mafia game.

- Eddie

McClain
06-14-2010, 08:50 PM
Current Votes:

killing Eddie is so much fun, guys: 1
Adam

Brickroad
06-14-2010, 09:36 PM
Eddie.

Eddie listen to me.

Auto-lynch was stupid. The only reason I said it wasn't was because I was a rogue process.

Listen to me, Eddie. This is your bro talking.

Destil
06-14-2010, 09:46 PM
Yeah, the Auto-Lynch worked out real well for you there.

Killing Eddie: so much fun both times.

kaisel
06-14-2010, 10:49 PM
Eddie.

Eddie listen to me.

Auto-lynch was stupid. The only reason I said it wasn't was because I was a rogue process.

Listen to me, Eddie. This is your bro talking.

Brick, Brick, it's not a stupid plan, you really don't know how easy it would be for the Rogues/Mafia to take control if you don't autolynch. This is going to be the great Mafia debate of all time.

My preference would be the great debate to be about trying to play both sides in this game, since it's really killing my enjoyment of the game

Kayma
06-14-2010, 11:34 PM
The great debate of Mafia 3 will haunt me until the end of my days.

Merus
06-14-2010, 11:40 PM
Brick, Brick, it's not a stupid plan, you really don't know how easy it would be for the Rogues/Mafia to take control if you don't autolynch.

No, we do. It's still not worth it for the Rogues to front a fake Inspector, because they can't get two innocents killed for it before it becomes obvious it's a fake. The autolynch is predicated on the idea that it's viable for the Rogues to front a fake Inspector and it won't become obvious really quickly. This isn't true, so the autolynch is a bad play. If nearly everyone who was smart enough to realise this wasn't rogue, Eddie would have been lynched for sure.

Brickroad
06-14-2010, 11:43 PM
Exactly right, Merus.

That said, one of these days we'll play a Mafia variant where it IS viable for the mob to front a fake inspector, and then shit will get real interesting.

kaisel
06-14-2010, 11:56 PM
Argh, I really don't want to argue this, and I admit, this might be my own bias based on the results of M1 (in my day, we didn't have that chance to front the inspector, and we had to walk uphill both ways). I admit, maybe autolynch isn't as helpful as I feel that it is, but I know that being able to front an inspector is incredibly powerful, especially on when you use it, and on the circumstances. I won't ever believe that it's as stupid a move as you guys think, nor do I think it's always the optimal strategy, but it's very rarely a bad one.

And I think that's my final say, since this'll be one of those things that both proponents are going to never agree on.

Brickroad
06-15-2010, 12:01 AM
And I think that's my final say, since this'll be one of those things that both proponents are going to never agree on.

Don't worry, in the M4 postgame we'll have a whole new pile of stuff to argue about!

Destil
06-15-2010, 12:40 AM
Argh, I really don't want to argue this, and I admit, this might be my own bias based on the results of M1 (in my day, we didn't have that chance to front the inspector, and we had to walk uphill both ways). In M1 it could have been super good because you hog angelic protection and are immune to the vig for as long as everyone believes you. The main downside was the oracle/real inspector.

In M3 it was, literally, a lose/lose.

That said, one of these days we'll play a Mafia variant where it IS viable for the mob to front a fake inspector, and then shit will get real interesting.

I very well may propose such rules for M5, M3 left me too exhausted to really participate in the next game discussion.

Brickroad
06-15-2010, 12:58 AM
I'll say this: were I mafia back in M1, I would have tried to pull off a fake inspector gambit. That's really the only game we've played where I think it could have worked.

Bongo Bill
06-15-2010, 04:21 AM
Here's one. One player is the Idiot. This player is told that he is the Inspector, and gets to inspect someone at night, but if he targets someone, he gets the wrong answer.

This is not to be confused with the Fool, an unaligned innocent who wins if and only if he gets lynched.

Alpha Werewolf
06-15-2010, 05:31 AM
You guys. Whether or not autolynch is viable depends highly on the setup and the players. You can't answer it generally.

Here's one. One player is the Idiot. This player is told that he is the Inspector, and gets to inspect someone at night, but if he targets someone, he gets the wrong answer.
That's usually called the Insane Cop.

This is not to be confused with the Fool, an unaligned innocent who wins if and only if he gets lynched.
And that is called the Jester.

Paul le Fou
06-15-2010, 08:45 AM
All right then, counting Eddie as subbed into Lower Deck for PapillonReel effective retroactively to Pappy's "death." Ignore the difference in character that shows up in the flavor text; he is in fact inhabiting the exact same role and slot that Pappy did.

kaisel
06-15-2010, 09:16 AM
In M1 it could have been super good because you hog angelic protection and are immune to the vig for as long as everyone believes you. The main downside was the oracle/real inspector.

In M3 it was, literally, a lose/lose.


I'll say this: were I mafia back in M1, I would have tried to pull off a fake inspector gambit. That's really the only game we've played where I think it could have worked.

With Oracle and the Angels, it was incredibly difficult to front an Inspector. We should have done so (since that's the only way to win a game like M1), but it would have been incredibly hard to do so (and with the only 5/6 mafia members, losing one of your own when the real inspector pops up is a huge loss).

I dunno, maybe it's because you guys knew the answers to who was Mafia/Rogues that you didn't see just how badly off we were with finding folks, and how easy it would have been to have controlled the game (moreso than you did already). Now really, that's my final word on it, I mean it guys.

EDIT: Also wanted to say that I'm enjoying the theorycraft, even though you guys are wrong(ish).

Tock
06-15-2010, 11:22 AM
autolynch
autolynch
AUTO-LYNCH
Auto-lynch
Auto-Lynch
autolynch
autolynch
http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac184/alexkidd8/makeitstop.jpg

Eddie
06-15-2010, 11:28 AM
All right then, counting Eddie as subbed into Lower Deck for PapillonReel effective retroactively to Pappy's "death." Ignore the difference in character that shows up in the flavor text; he is in fact inhabiting the exact same role and slot that Pappy did.

Guys I'm just a dad who has learned what it means to love your child, and to that extent I'm trying to get off this station so I can attend her concert like I said I would.

Also, I believe Brickroad to be akin to the Great Gazoo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Gazoo), except you're all like Fred and believe he exists, while I'm like Wilma, and think you're all just talking to thin air, doubting his existence entirely!

- Eddie

dwolfe
06-15-2010, 09:56 PM
From the sidelines, the citizens were almost sure to lose in M3 anyway.

But auto-lynch was the dumbest f*cking rule I saw proposed in that variant, if people thought it through. They didn't.

No matter the situation, it was the worst possible citizen move, pure and simple. I would have posted a Sir PicardFacePalm.jpg the size of Mars and then gotten lynched for my troubles, I'm sure ;)

Brickroad
06-15-2010, 10:00 PM
I spoke to pretty much every M3 mafioso on AIM the last couple days of that game, and all of them were like "it will be SO SWEET if we win on the auto-lynch!"

And then we did!

We ruled you.

kaisel
06-15-2010, 10:21 PM
Guys? This is me resisting the urge to argue about the autolynch. You have no idea how hard this is, seeing as how everyone's complaints about this argument are like delicious candy to me.

If I were the only one arguing for the autolynch I'd probably say I was wrong about the fact, but there's at least Eddie, and I'm reasonably sure he's better at strategy than I, so if Eddie gives in, I'd concede the point

Eddie
06-15-2010, 10:30 PM
If I were the only one arguing for the autolynch I'd probably say I was wrong about the fact, but there's at least Eddie, and I'm reasonably sure he's better at strategy than I, so if Eddie gives in, I'd concede the point

It's a discussion we can have when we get a game that it could potentially be important for. Now's not the time. And yes, I'm the one who brought it up so it is my actions that got us to this situation, proving once again that I am terrible with the joking.

- Eddie

kaisel
06-15-2010, 11:50 PM
It's a discussion we can have when we get a game that it could potentially be important for. Now's not the time. And yes, I'm the one who brought it up so it is my actions that got us to this situation, proving once again that I am terrible with the joking.

- Eddie

Eh, no worries, more of a "you got my back" sorta thing than anything else. But yeah, best to wait until it's important rather than rehashing it. I'm going to love seeing what discussion come out of the current game.

EDIT: And I waste my 1000th post talking about the autolynch. Joy.

Bongo Bill
06-16-2010, 02:10 AM
Yeah okay whatever shut up.

Hey, you fellows who were interested in trying a truly mad Mafia variant! On Brontoforumus, they're having signups for Vampires vs Werewolves 7 (http://sharkey.gamespite.net/forum/index.php?topic=5254.0), which you should sign up for and play (http://sharkey.gamespite.net/forum/index.php?topic=5246.0). The deadline is like tomorrow.

Tanto
06-16-2010, 10:14 AM
Upper Deck Day 4
Posts #542-647

As previously agreed, votes against Merus begin to accumulate from the word go.

McClain142 expresses mixed feelings about dwolfe, and later suggests scanning him in the next morning if the game's still going by then. Namelessentity posts brief digests of spineshark and Rai. Merus, while waiting for the scan to come down, speaks at some length as to the identity of Patient Zero, claiming that if both Eddie and Bongo Bill were Things on Day 2, one of them was Patient Zero, and that if the Citizens have already found PZ, they should begin working on attempting to anticipate the Things' likely moves.

Paul le Fou calls time and Merus is unanimously scanned. He is clean. Nodal and shivam's brains explode.

Destil begins attempting to figure out who Eddie and Bongo Bill converted on Night 2, and who that person would have then converted on the previous night.

Adam votes for spineshark as a means of stirring up some activity.

Adam and Destil discuss locit, Sprite, Umby, and spineshark. Adam reminds the Citizens that Umby has an alibi (he said earlier that he had real-life stuff to deal with and might have to be replaced). Destil muses that common wisdom is that someone with a power role wouldn't quit mid-game, but that hasn't really held up in practice. Merus, for his part, stayed up an embarassingly long time to watch Microsoft's E3 presentation and hasn't been around.

Merus later returns and suggest that everyone re-check their watch targets for changes in behavior -- since Patient Zero is likely down for the count, the only remaining Things are conversions.

Destil and Merus note that shivam has done nothing in recent days aside from call for the lynch of Eddie and Merus, and now that Merus is confirmed clean he's vanished into the workwork entirely.

Namelessentity votes for locit. McClain142 wants to hear some reasoning for this vote, because he doesn't see the evidence. Spineshark suggests that attempting to divine player alignment from behavior changes is a fruitless endeavor (rather, that it could be useful, but that no one here is good at it), and votes for dwolfe. Nodal agrees with spineshark's argument, and votes for dwolfe as well.

Sprite posts a digest of dwolfe, but doesn't draw any conclusions from it.

Merus votes for dwolfe, and Destil votes for Umby. Rai, Adam, and dwolfe follow up with votes for Umby, following up the easiest vote yet with the tightest. Umby is scanned again, and is still clean.

Adam
06-16-2010, 11:58 AM
Yeah okay whatever shut up.

Hey, you fellows who were interested in trying a truly mad Mafia variant! On Brontoforumus, they're having signups for Vampires vs Werewolves 7 (http://sharkey.gamespite.net/forum/index.php?topic=5254.0), which you should sign up for and play (http://sharkey.gamespite.net/forum/index.php?topic=5246.0). The deadline is like tomorrow.

Wow, I was going to say that I am not interested in playing that, but then I realized that actually, I am interested in not playing that.

Paul le Fou
06-17-2010, 05:52 AM
SpoonyGundam is currently on activity notice. He's not posted in the thread for 10 days or been on the forum in a week. Without further activity, he'll be killed at the end of the night.

Looking for a substitute, if anyone is interested.

Dizzy
06-17-2010, 06:00 AM
Wow, I was going to say that I am not interested in playing that, but then I realized that actually, I am interested in not playing that.

ha ha ha wimp!

Guesty
06-17-2010, 09:21 AM
That said, one of these days we'll play a Mafia variant where it IS viable for the mob to front a fake inspector, and then shit will get real interesting.An miller inspector? Or maybe 2 inspectors, and one (or both) of them appears as Mafia when inspected.

Destil
06-18-2010, 01:33 AM
My idea was that you don't learn the actual role of people who are lynched. Just citizen/non-citizen.

Makes citizens a bit more valuable and makes mafia faking roles a lot less of an auto-fail.

Alpha Werewolf
06-18-2010, 02:33 AM
My idea was that you don't learn the actual role of people who are lynched. Just citizen/non-citizen.

Makes citizens a bit more valuable and makes mafia faking roles a lot less of an auto-fail.

Hampers the town far more than the scum, since information is all they have.

Brickroad
06-19-2010, 09:32 PM
scum

Something tells me that in the time betwen M4 and M5 we're going to have another discussion about why nobody wants to play Alpha's game, and once again he's just not going to get it.

And the world keeps on spinnin'!

Merus
06-19-2010, 09:37 PM
Hampers the town far more than the mafia, for fuck's sake, Alpha, since information is all they have.

That's kind of the idea. You'd need to give the town an advantage to make up for that lack of information, like protection, but the whole point is that the town can pretty quickly see through fake inspectors.

Alpha Werewolf
06-20-2010, 12:47 AM
That's kind of the idea. You'd need to give the town an advantage to make up for that lack of information, like protection, but the whole point is that the town can pretty quickly see through fake inspectors.

Fair enough - I just wanted to make it clear that you're shooting the town in the foot if you do this.

I didn't notice I was writing scum instead of mafia! Honest!

Brickroad
06-20-2010, 08:24 AM
GO LOWER DECK WOO.

dwolfe
06-20-2010, 08:37 AM
It was fun while it lasted, Upper Deck. I hope I entertained you while I was alive as well as in death!

...just to set the record (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=789521&postcount=690) straight, I suggested to Paul that you sample my decompressed remains, not the..um..samples in the lab. I'm so, so sorry, locit and Umby, for having Paul send you in there.

Nodal
06-20-2010, 08:38 AM
It was fun while it lasted, Upper Deck. I hope I entertained you while I was alive as well as in death!

...just to set the record (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=789521&postcount=690) straight, I suggested to Paul that you sample my decompressed remains, not the..um..samples in the lab. I'm so, so sorry, locit and Umby, for having Paul send you in there.

dwolfe, you have done terrible things in the name of science.

Merus
06-20-2010, 08:47 AM
I am sorely tempted to look at Lower Deck and see if I can't find their PRCYs after we win Upper Deck today. Lookin' forward to it!

Dizzy
06-20-2010, 08:47 AM
Sweet Jesus, this is the best mafia game I've played yet.

dwolfe
06-20-2010, 09:20 AM
Sweet Jesus, this is the best mafia game I've played yet.

I can only assume you mean you're following along M4-Upper, since you guys can't catch a PRCY down in M4-Lower :)

Paul le Fou
06-20-2010, 09:23 AM
...just to set the record (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=789521&postcount=690) straight, I suggested to Paul that you sample my decompressed remains, not the..um..samples in the lab. I'm so, so sorry, locit and Umby, for having Paul send you in there.

Well if you went out the airlock, how were we going to retrieve you with a ruined, broken ship? We had to come up with something!

dwolfe
06-20-2010, 09:29 AM
Well if you went out the airlock, how were we going to retrieve you with a ruined, broken ship? We had to come up with something!

As usual, I really didn't think that through, did I? :)

Brickroad
06-20-2010, 09:34 AM
I can only assume you mean you're following along M4-Upper, since you guys can't catch a PRCY down in M4-Lower :)

We're just... biding our time!

Paul le Fou
06-20-2010, 09:41 AM
Just to reiterate, Spoony's out. He's been away from the forum for... 10 days? And hasn't posted since long before that. No one has volunteered to sub in for him so far (if you want to, you have 47 hours, i.e. until the next day starts, for what it's worth). If no one does, he will be unceremoniously dismembered or somesuch come morning. Also, this will change the win conditions from 8 things of a full 15 crew down to 7.

Dizzy
06-20-2010, 09:45 AM
....Bongo Bill? Dwolfe?

namelessentity
06-20-2010, 10:04 AM
When we caught the first Thing, it was like "YAY, all right, party on," but after six or seven we on the Upper deck are like "*yawn* fine, he's a thing, pass the kippers"

How I envy you, Lower deck, you still have the wonderful first kill to look forward to (assuming you aren't horribly dismembered first)

Umby
06-20-2010, 10:57 AM
I'm so, so sorry, locit and Umby, for having Paul send you in there.

To say that I was horrified would be an understatement. My condolences to locit who experienced it with me.

This is a good game that Upper Deck is playing, methinks. I'm going to the lower deck to laugh at them for a second. Makes me feel better.

Tanto
06-20-2010, 10:57 AM
Reading the Lower Deck is immensely frustrating. You'd think you'd have at least lucked into one by now.

Lower Deck Day 5
Posts #512-591

The day begins with Paul le Fou announcing that PapillonReel, killed the previous day for inactivity, has been replaced by Eddie.

Kaisel suggests trying to find the first Thing, by scanning only those who have not yet been scanned thus far. He argues that once the first Thing is found, all the clean verdicts will become meaningful.

Garrison votes for Dizzy, suggesting that his demands to be scanned are a Thing gambit designed to keep people from suspecting him. He's also on kaisel's list of non-scanned players. Kayma likes Dizzy as an early scan, but isn't a fan of wasting a scan on someone who's been actively demanding it. Instead, he votes for gahitsu. Calorie Mate doesn't see anything special about Patient Zero that makes searching for them in particular a great idea.

Eddie enters and says that he will not be discussing anything regarding the Upper Deck game. He then suggests that the Lower Deck adopt the watchlist strategy the Upper Deck had been using. Dizzy scoffs at this.

Tock welcomes Eddie to the Lower Deck, noting that in procrastinating on doing detective work and mixing it up with Dizzy, he's already fitting right in.

Byron notes that the watchlist idea would have been better implemented at the beginning, and it still wouldn't do anything regarding Brickroad's lack of cooperation. He also says he has a "good feeling" about Dizzy, but "can't read" gahitsu.

Brickroad votes for Byron again. Dizzy threatens to quit if that goes through.

There are votes for Dizzy, gahitsu, and even demonkoala (courtesy of Calorie Mate, who wants to still up more activity from the quiet players). Eventually time is called and Dizzy is scanned. He is clean (physically).

Eddie begins implementing the watchlist plan, preemptively answering some probably objections. He deals with "the Brickroad problem" by means of simply removing Brickroad from the list entirely, saying that the moment Brickroad decides to start being helpful the Citizens would just scan his ass anyway. He finishes off by posting reports on Kayma and kaisel, his own watch targets, deciding that neither would have been converted the previous night. Finally, he votes for gahitsu. Kayma surprises himself by agreeing fully with Eddie, and votes for gahitsu as well.

Demonkoala votes for Traumadore, and Calorie Mate abandons his pursuit of demonkoala to vote for gahitsu, claiming that he's not confident in his ability to force through a demonkoala scan. Dizzy answers this by... voting for demonkoala.

Tock says that Traumadore was loud during the early portions of the game, but has gone silent recently except to vote, which he finds suspicious, and votes for him. Garrison votes for Traumadore as well. Dizzy and Eddie retract their votes to vote for Traumadore. Eventually the scan comes down and Traumadore is revealed to be clean.

McClain
06-20-2010, 11:15 AM
Come on, Lower Deckers, it should be obvious:

When we found Eddie to be dirty, we didn't actually kill him. We just knocked him out, but before he could do his horror-movie pop-up bit ... we flushed him downstairs. Then he woke up and ate Pappy. Oops. Our bad.

So you know what you have to do now. You have to kill Eddie. Again!

Note: I promise you have have absolutely no knowledge of the other game. I just think it's fun to try to kill Eddie.

dtsund
06-20-2010, 11:28 AM
I heard there's a party in the Lower Deck. I'm bringin' the embenzalmine nitrotomine, wooo!

By which I mean I'd like to join.

Calorie Mate
06-20-2010, 03:15 PM
Sweet Jesus, this is the best mafia game I've played yet.

I'm starting to feel demoralized the same way I did towards the end of M3, personally.

McClain
06-20-2010, 03:24 PM
I can only assume you mean you're following along M4-Upper, since you guys can't catch a PRCY down in M4-Lower :)

I'm sure the LD things are having a good time with all their tasty, tasty brains.

(Do PRCY eat brains? I kind of assume they eventually go zombie, but ... ah hell, sure. They eat brains.)

Dizzy
06-20-2010, 03:27 PM
Is The Thing variant the same model as the M3 variant?

Maybe there is a FLAW.

And you can only overcome those flaws with LUCK.

You know, I think we need a nanny state for these games. Some kind of a social safety net!

I had a weird dream the other night. Last night in fact. I was dreaming of a sequel for Ghostbusters. It would be like Ghostbusters combined with The Thing. It starred Tom Cruise... a young Tom Cruise, as one of the Ghostbusters. He and his crew check out this house that has been invaded by an evil spiritual entity that infects people and turns them into it. It takes all shapes and sizes, but it commonly looks like viscous black ink. Like Ultimate Venom. The thing kept adding more rooms and tunnels to the house, it was trying to make it bigger. It also managed to infect one person and sent that person to infect more homes, in order to make those homes bigger. The only way you could combat it--but not defeat it--was to shoot it with your electric shocking gun device. Yeah. One woman who visited the house touched a black smudge and she was turned instantly. All the other crewmembers didn't think so but I knew so and I shot my gun at her (which I could only do by pressing one button to charge the gun, and another to fire off an electric bolt of shocking).

Traumadore
06-20-2010, 04:17 PM
I'm starting to feel demoralized the same way I did towards the end of M3, personally.

I've been feeling demoralized since when I crunched the numbers on day one. Combined with the fact that there isn't anything for the players to do in this game, you end up feeling pretty helpless. I know the point of the rules was to play up paranoia, but instead it's emphasizing that instinct and trying to analyze player dialogue just doesn't work. The players need more verbs at their disposal to have fun.

McClain
06-20-2010, 04:26 PM
I've been feeling demoralized since when I crunched the numbers on day one. Combined with the fact that there isn't anything for the players to do in this game, you end up feeling pretty helpless. I know the point of the rules was to play up paranoia, but instead it's emphasizing that instinct and trying to analyze player dialogue just doesn't work. The players need more verbs at their disposal to have fun.

This is my first mafia game, and after reading about the older games just a little bit, I was a bit shocked by how minimalistic this one is. But I like that about it. I'm sure I'll like having more options in a different game will be awesome, but this game is doing a good job of making me paranoid. The setting and flavor text is helping a lot (man, once you guys start killing stuff, you're going to have a lot of fun).

kaisel
06-20-2010, 05:18 PM
I've been feeling demoralized since when I crunched the numbers on day one. Combined with the fact that there isn't anything for the players to do in this game, you end up feeling pretty helpless. I know the point of the rules was to play up paranoia, but instead it's emphasizing that instinct and trying to analyze player dialogue just doesn't work. The players need more verbs at their disposal to have fun.

It's been a bit demoralizing, especially considering how ofter we've wiffed, but I don't entirely agree that analyzing player dialogue doesn't work. The two issues I have with the game are these:

First, it's really, really easy to contribute without saying anything of substance, especially with the Thing rules. It's trivial to just hop on a bandwagon, or echo someone else's sentiment, which you may or may not share, so there's really not a lot of meaning or clues one can get from "yeah, I agree with x, let's lynch y".

Second, and the reason I've been almost checking out of the game, is that most people think it's too time consuming (and it probably is for that specific individual) to go through what people have posted, and so latch on to whatever "seems suspicious" which gets the team no where, just look at at M3 and the Lower Deck at the moment. And then other people start posting less since no one reads their gigantic wall of text, so you eventually just get people voting on hunches.

So, basically what I'm trying to say is that I think there's a continuum for the amount of verbs (power roles) that a game has. If you have a group of people who love posting and reasoning things out, then you can get away with less verbs (people leave a longer trail, and opinions and the like shine through). With a more casual game, more special roles work, since it's less time consuming, when you can base a strategy around the power roles.

Actually a third issue comes to mind as well, the early games had some pressure on the Mafia to take risks, since they could be scanned, they had to play well enough to stay under the radar, while trying to manipulate things. With M3 and this current game, there's not nearly the pressure for the Mafia/Rogues/Things to take risks, and without risks, it's difficult to use what one posted as evidence.

Dizzy
06-20-2010, 05:23 PM
Guys, we're supposed to be having this discussion after M4.

Nodal
06-20-2010, 05:32 PM
There's also the problem that the lower decks is bad and filled with commoners.

Brickroad
06-20-2010, 05:40 PM
I have opinions about kaisel's words!

But it's like Dizzy say, now's not the time to have this discussion.

dwolfe
06-20-2010, 08:16 PM
I have opinions about kaisel's words!

But it's like Dizzy say, now's not the time to have this discussion.

/signed, but I want to say one thing.

Guys. You get out what you put into it. I put a lot of effort and time into my posts (being somewhat crazy, coming up with backstory, finding Arrested Development quotes to edit and fit my post, and a couple times even finding new video links rather than the classic one i reused a lot) to entertain everyone while I was alive.

(And I'm sorry if it got on anyone's nerves, it was there for flavour text)

We're not really a RP crowd here, but you can still be funny and have fun. M4UD developed a method in public to make the work part manageable, but that's all I'll say about that till after the game.

Kayma
06-20-2010, 09:09 PM
I don't understand your post, and I won't respond to it.

kaisel
06-20-2010, 09:51 PM
I have opinions about kaisel's words!

But it's like Dizzy say, now's not the time to have this discussion.

Sorry, I wasn't really trying to bring up a huge discussion (or discuss anything that would throw the game out of whack), just wanted to make sure I got down what I was thinking before it fluttered away.

Traumadore
06-20-2010, 11:54 PM
Guys, we're supposed to be having this discussion after M4.

aw but that's still weeks (possibly weeks and weeks) away!

Destil
06-21-2010, 12:18 AM
aw but that's still weeks (possibly weeks and weeks) away!

Nah. You guys on lower deck have like, what? Six (real life) days left...

Merus
06-21-2010, 01:51 AM
personally, I feel like upper deck would be much less fun if Bongo hadn't suicided on me and revealed himself as PRCY. Having something to work with makes the game a lot of fun - and remember, you only need to get one hit to start the onion spiralling open.

Wow, mixed metaphors much :mad:

Also, Upper Deck has me in it. I'm fucking owning this game. It has my name on it. It is the USS Merus, you are just all drifting in it.

Paul le Fou
06-21-2010, 05:54 AM
I will say only that I'm glad the two decks have developed very differently, because it reassures me that the game structure has a decent spread of possibilities and scenario. Also, neither game is over until the Things outnumber the crew or have been eliminated. Make every day count!

I see Dtsund's application to sub in for Spoony. Are there any objections or concerns?

JohnB
06-21-2010, 06:01 AM
These are both fascinating games to watch, from an outsiders perspective. Special (continued) props to both Paul and dwolfe for amazing flavor text. Because, at the end of the day, isn't this about entertainment?

Oh, yeah. Winning. That too.

Brickroad
06-21-2010, 07:19 AM
These are both fascinating games to watch, from an outsiders perspective. Special (continued) props to both Paul and dwolfe for amazing flavor text. Because, at the end of the day, isn't this about entertainment?

Oh, yeah. Winning. That too.

Well someone's gonna win.

I'd prefer it be me, but, well. That's how that goes.

Dizzy
06-21-2010, 08:04 AM
Because, at the end of the day, isn't this about entertainment?

Oh, yeah. Winning. That too.

Winning is entertainment, sir.

Sprite
06-21-2010, 09:07 AM
When we're entertained, everyone wins!

That's right. I'm that guy.

Paul le Fou
06-22-2010, 06:43 AM
Gahitsu is also on activity notice. She hasn't posted in the game thread in ten days. Looking for a replacement (or a message saying she'll be coming back and actually participating).

Come on, what is with you people?

Merus
06-22-2010, 08:19 AM
I roll to disbelieve.

Dizzy
06-22-2010, 08:22 AM
Folks, make you sure you can play the game all the way through if you sign up. You know these affairs last for weeks, even months.

dwolfe
06-22-2010, 08:47 AM
I roll to disbelieve.

Merus rolls a 1, Critical Failure!

Merus Believes! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbXiECmCZ94)

Calorie Mate
06-22-2010, 10:10 AM
Folks, make you sure you can play the game all the way through if you sign up. You know these affairs last for weeks, even months.

Seriously. This is kind of shitty.

Tanto
06-22-2010, 10:20 AM
Upper Deck Day 5
Posts #649-745

Merus opens the day by complaining about how worthless it is to have a confirmed clean if you're not going to listen to him. (The Citizens had ignored his advice and convinced themselves to scan Umby the previous night.) He votes for Destil, claiming that he didn't understand Destil's Umby logic at all, and since Merus and Destil are usually on the same page that means there's a high chance that he's a Thing.

Sprite notes that dwolfe voted for Umby during Day 4, despite previously arguing for voting the confirmed clean's choice. He says that a change of heart at that particular juncture was quite convenient, given that it broke a tie with a player the confirmed clean did want to scan. Adam, Nodal, and shivam vote for dwolfe as a result of this. Shivam notes the loss of morale among the Citizens since failing to close the door on the Things in Day 3.

Adam asks Merus if he's given up on the confirmed clean being useful in any way. Namelessentity responds that the confirmed clean is still useful, but the days of voting for someone with the first scan just because they'd make a nice confirmed clean are probably over. Every vote needs to count, now.

Dwolfe posts a long defense post in which he claims that he votes with the confirmed clean only when it makes sense to do so, and he wasn't going to vote for himself just because Merus said to. He points out that he's drawn votes every day and has such a high profile that it would be foolish to convert him.

Destil and Adam have a brief argument about whether it's altogether moral to play the game in such a way that you can contribute no matter what team you find yourself on. Adam says it's "kind of shitty" that people are putting their own personal survival over trying to win.

Locit posts digests of McClain142 and Nodal.

Eventually Paul le Fou calls time and dwolfe is unanimously scanned. He is revealed to be a Thing, and is killed.

Merus says "I told you so" and then resumes his hunt for Destil, which he had put aside temporarily to deal with the dwolfe situation.

Sprite says that it's odd that dwolfe voted for Umby as opposed to locit yesterday, when the latter would have been much less suspicious. In lieu of a defense from locit, Sprite votes for him. Namelessentity and Nodal like Sprite's logic, but withhold their votes for the moment.

Locit says that dwolfe, being a good player, deliberately chose the target that would cause the most confusion and wasted time among the Citizens. If the Citizens waste time going after locit and he's clean, that gives the Things another night to propagate.

Destil admits that he made a mistake in voting for Umby, which he claims he only did because dwolfe already had a significant lead. Sprite is confused, and Nodal votes for Destil.

Adam deconstructs the previous day's vote with the aim of extracting some motivations from it. He comes to the conclusion that spineshark is a Thing, and votes for spineshark. Namelessentity argues that spineshark started up the campaign against dwolfe when there was no momentum to do so, and that a Thing wouldn't risk that when they could stay under the radar (as spineshark, by and large, has).

Merus argues that Destil was the perfect conversion target in that he's a good player, an even-tempered player to complement dwolfe's flamboyance, and had already been scanned previously, making him a less likely target going forward. He also notes that Destil has been dodging discussion as to his own guilt or innocence, which is out of character for him. Shivam is convinced and votes for Destil. Sprite argues that dwolfe's ties to locit are far more damning that his ties to Destil.

Destil makes a really long post in defense of himself, covering topics as diverse as the Things' conversion chain, the way the watch list may have been subverted, and the identity of the Night 4 conversion. Ultimately, he votes for McClain142, saying that McClain142 is clearly following the game very closely and posting a ton but is neither attracting much attention nor attempting to lead the game. Merus and Adam agree to follow up on McClain in the event that Destil is clean -- which he is, once Paul le Fou calls time a few posts later. The day ends.

Calorie Mate
06-22-2010, 12:24 PM
I just need to check something with demonkoala in this thread - you're, like, having fun, right? The nature of the game is to be suspicious of everyone, but whenever I'm combative I'm scared I ruin other people's fun. (Of course, I was worried about this with Brick in M3 and he said the day he went down was a blast, so who knows.)

Brickroad
06-22-2010, 01:47 PM
I just need to check something with demonkoala in this thread - you're, like, having fun, right? The nature of the game is to be suspicious of everyone, but whenever I'm combative I'm scared I ruin other people's fun. (Of course, I was worried about this with Brick in M3 and he said the day he went down was a blast, so who knows.)

I lied to you because you were being a crybaby about it. Truth is I hate your non-metagaming guts.

I'm just kidding. You don't have guts. That would be... human.

This post was paid for by the USGOVERMENT Committee to Make Caloriesman Cry.

JohnB
06-22-2010, 02:32 PM
Brick is the most hilarious motherfucker today, by far. (http://toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showpost.php?p=791632&postcount=613) "You goofy bastards." Hee hee.

Paul le Fou
06-26-2010, 08:21 AM
Sorry things were slow/light tonight, I'm off at a friend's watching soccer and her tiny keyboard is hard to type on :<

And thanks for the birthday wishes, everyone!

Tanto
06-26-2010, 10:28 AM
Lower Deck Day ...What, 6? Really? 6
Posts #592-747

The day begins with Paul le Fou announcing that dtsund has replaced SpoonyGundam from this point forward.

Dizzy suspects that the Things have a sizeable enough advantage now that they're looking to use their voting power to push forward useless votes. Dizzy says that gahitsu is probably clean, so he wants to go after Eddie. Demonkoala agrees with the idea that the last vote was manipulated by the Things, but wants to investigate the Giant Head instead.

Calorie Mate bemoans the no-discussion "strategy" [Author's note: I hope you can hear those quotation marks clanking into place] utilized by the Citizens in the early days of the game, as it's now got the Citizens between a rock and a hard place: if all that's required to swing a vote is that players throw suspicions around, the Things can easily direct the flow of conversation without even drawing attention to themselves.

Dtsund nominates Brickroad for scanning, and reminds the Citizens that the Things can read the thread just as well as they can. If the Citizens agree to go after quiet players, the Things will simply convert a loud player instead.

Calorie Mate suggests that "loud" or "quiet" are meaningless distinctions at this point, and says that checking for changes in posting habits would be more effective.

Dtsund changes his vote to Calorie Mate, pointing out that he has remained safely under the radar for the entire game despite being one of the most talkative players.

Traumadore says that demonkoala is trying to sprinkle suspicion on innocent players and hoping it snowballs. Traumadore votes for demonkoala.

Brickroad throws a temper tantrum and threatens to post nothing except pictures of cheeseburgers unless gahitsu is scanned. Tock says this makes him more inclined to scan Brickroad. Nonetheless, Brickroad's threat seems to work, as several players add their votes to the gahitsu pile.

Eddie posts "17,000 words, none of which are a vote or an accusation", in the words of Brickroad. Brickroad declares that Eddie "fucking suck[s]". In actuality, Eddie examined the unscanned to determine how likely it was that any of them had been converted. Eddie eventually says that he likes demonkoala as Patient Zero and the Giant Head and dtsund as conversions, while Calorie Mate is probably innocent.

Tock says that "thinking like a Thing", as Eddie is advocating, is a fool's game, as it's never worked before. Winning strategies for the Citizens have been based around deduction and playing the percentages, not trying to think along with the bad guys.

Brickroad goes on vacation for the rest of the Day.

Paul le Fou calls time. Gahitsu is scanned, and is found clean.

Accusations and retractions fly as players vote in what can only be described as a mad panic. The Giant Head, Kayma, Mr. J, Garrison, Calorie Mate, kaisel, and dtsund all receive scattered votes. Eventually it comes down to a tie between kaisel and dtsund; Paul le Fou rolls the dice, and dtsund is clean.

Calorie Mate
06-26-2010, 10:45 AM
Pssh. We're purposefully flubbing so we can wait until the last possible day and then scan all of the Things without missing. It's going to be badass and you guys will be totally lame in comparison.

Dizzy
06-26-2010, 10:55 AM
That would be HILARIOUS if that happened.

Calorie Mate
06-26-2010, 10:56 AM
The day doesn't end until we stop hitting them. LET'S DO THIS.

Merus
06-26-2010, 10:59 AM
I would be crowing with delight, but as it turns out I spent all day defending a Thing so I'm going to keep quiet.

Calorie Mate
06-26-2010, 11:07 AM
Damn, you guys got locit! (I may or may not have already known he was a PRCY.) That sure was funny to watch.

Destil
06-26-2010, 01:07 PM
I would be crowing with delight, but as it turns out I spent all day defending a Thing so I'm going to keep quiet.

Yeah, and I spent day 4 fucking us over bad when we were about to win the game.

At least, on the plus side, we have teammates worth a damn, Merus.

dtsund
06-26-2010, 02:36 PM
Pssh. We're purposefully flubbing so we can wait until the last possible day and then scan all of the Things without missing. It's going to be badass and you guys will be totally lame in comparison.

The outlook wasn't brilliant for the Spite fifteen that day:
The score stood six to none, with but one game day left to play.
And then when Brickroad fell from grace, and Dizzy did the same,
A sickly silence fell upon the victims of the game.

A straggling few then wet themselves in deep despair. The rest
Clung to that hope which springs eternal in the human breast;
They thought, if only Calories could but be a useful man-
We'd put up even money now, with Calories at the scan.

But Tock preceded Calories, as did also Mr. J,
And the former was a lulu and the latter was astray;
So upon those stricken crew members a deep despair began
For there seemed but little chance of Calories' getting to the scan.

But Tock declined to take his turn, surprising every one,
And Mr. J, the much despised, said 'fellows, I am done';
And when the dust had lifted, and they saw what had occurred,
Calories was at the scanner; this was too absurd!

Then from fifteen-odd throats, no more, there rose a cheerful shout,
It rumbled through the engines, it rattled all about;
It knocked upon the quarters, it came from every man,
For Calories, mighty Calories, was advancing to the scan.

There was ease in Calories' manner as he stepped into his place;
There was pride in Calories' bearing and a smile on Calories' face.
And when, responding to the cheers, he silently began,
No stranger in the crowd could doubt 'twas Calories at the scan.

Some thirty eyes were on him as he sanitized his hands
Some fifteen tongues applauded as he laid out all his plans.
Then while his writhing victim struggled 'gainst his vicious grip,
Defiance gleamed in Calories' eye, a sneer curled Calories' lip.

And now gahitsu forward came, the blood drained from his face,
And Calories took his sample, stuck the needle in his... place.
The scanning machine whirred, the computer madly clicked-
"That ain't my style," said Calories. "He's clean," the readout said

From the lab room, filled with people, there went up a muffled roar,
Like the beating of the storm-waves on a stern and distant shore.
"It's broken! Surely broken!" shouted someone in the crowd;
And it's likely they'd a-gave up but for Calories, silent, proud.

With a smile of Christian charity great Calories' visage shone;
He stilled the rising tumult; he bade the scan go on.
He signaled out to dtsund; once more the needle pricked;
But dtsund was also clean, like the last one he picked.

"Fraud!" cried the maddened crewmen, and echo answered fraud;
But one scornful look from Calories and the audience was awed.
They saw his face grow stern and cold, they saw his muscles strain,
And they knew that Calories wouldn't let the Things go by again.

The sneer is gone from Calories' lip, his teeth are clenched and bare;
He brandishes with violence the needle through the air.
And now the victim stands up front, and now he's being scanned,
And now the skin is broken by the needle in the hand.

Oh, somewhere deep in outer space a star is shining bright;
The band is playing somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light,
And somewhere men are laughing, and somewhere children shout;
But there is no joy in Troyes - mighty Calories has struck out.

At least, on the plus side, we have teammates worth a damn, Merus.

I envy you so, so much.

Sprite
06-26-2010, 02:41 PM
PRCY at the bat
Wonderful.

Nodal
06-26-2010, 02:44 PM
Poetry

Clap...clap...clap.

locit
06-26-2010, 02:46 PM
God I love my death scene. I didn't go out like a little bitch, unlike some PRCYs I know. Thanks and happy (late) birthday, paul! And go other Thingers! You can do it! Fight for what's right! (Protip: it'd drinking blood!)

JohnB
06-26-2010, 02:52 PM
PRCY at the bat: It makes me weep. Incredible.

dwolfe
06-26-2010, 03:17 PM
God I love my death scene. I didn't go out like a little bitch, unlike some PRCYs I know. Thanks and happy (late) birthday, paul! And go other Thingers! You can do it! Fight for what's right! (Protip: it'd drinking blood!)

:)

I went out the wrong end of the ship, into harsh vacuum; but I did good by getting nailed by a Scan 1, not a Scan 2, just like you. We BOTH did good *spec knux* PRCY 4 LYFE!

I cannot wait for the AAR's. I'm working on mine now.

EDIT: and I go catch up with M4UD and they're talking Scan 1/2 stuff. I'm not trying to metagame at all here, I swear, just cheering locit on. Sorry!

McClain
06-26-2010, 03:56 PM
Mighty Calories is truly the greatest poem of our generation. Thank you.

shivam
06-26-2010, 04:00 PM
my god, you mean the LD hasn't found a single thing? not...one?

holy crap.

Tanto
06-26-2010, 04:03 PM
That is superb, dtsund.

Nodal
06-26-2010, 05:32 PM
Shit! Sorry. I spaced and posted something meant for this thread in the Upper thread.

It was a failure Nich. A certain type of failure.

Sprite
06-26-2010, 06:26 PM
Typical words for a deserter.

Dizzy
06-26-2010, 09:26 PM
Is English your second language, dtsund?

dtsund
06-26-2010, 09:35 PM
Is English your second language, dtsund?

Well, sure. I was written in Python, so I suppose I should call that my first language.

Eddie
06-26-2010, 09:41 PM
Okay guys, I know LD is looking bad, but I know how to salvage it! We'll just secretly switch places with UD, and in the morning the PRCYs will devour those handsome buggers alive, while we'll stave off defeat up until we miss all our scans and are overrun oh god why did I agree to come on this ship.

- Eddie

Adam
06-26-2010, 09:43 PM
Okay guys, I know LD is looking bad, but I know how to salvage it! We'll just secretly switch places with UD, and in the morning the PRCYs will devour those handsome buggers alive, while we'll stave off defeat up until we miss all our scans and are overrun oh god why did I agree to come on this ship twice.

- Eddie

McClain
06-26-2010, 09:49 PM
Operation Flush Eddie: SUCCESS!

Brickroad
06-27-2010, 10:13 PM
Hey guyz I'm back from vacation and--

Lower Deck Day 6

You guys suck SO MUCH.

Dizzy
06-27-2010, 10:17 PM
We couldn't have done it without you, man.

Paul: Hurry up and make it Day already! The Things have no reason to communicate with any depth at this point.

dwolfe
06-28-2010, 07:35 AM
We couldn't have done it without you, man.

Paul: Hurry up and make it Day already! The Things have no reason to communicate with any depth at this point.

Well, they are probably bragging and gloating at length, and having way more fun partying than the unconverted citizens. It really is more fun when you're part of a conspiracy group and can talk during the 'nights'.

I would love to read their google wave on who to convert to win the game, though. Who deserves to win, despite their best efforts to the contrariwise? Will it be the PRCY's MVP, someone random?

Merus
06-28-2010, 07:42 AM
Wait, has lower deck actually lost by this point?

Paul le Fou
06-28-2010, 08:19 AM
Nope, lower deck is still in the game. I HAVE FAITH IN YOU, LOWER DECK!

dwolfe
06-28-2010, 09:10 AM
Nope, lower deck is still in the game. I HAVE FAITH IN YOU, LOWER DECK!

I have faith in YOU, PRCY's of lower deck. go team evil!

Tanto
06-28-2010, 09:21 AM
Upper Deck Day 6
Posts #746-833

Sprite opens the day by voting for locit, demanding to know why dwolfe was shielding him. Adam, meanwhile, votes for Destil's choice of the previous Day, McClain142. For his part, McClain142 speaks to his own innocence and votes for locit. Destil admits that he doesn't have much evidence to justify voting for McClain142, but votes for him anyway.

Merus says he likes Adam or Sprite better than locit at this point, but notes that Sprite defended Destil when the tide was turning against him.

Locit says he doesn't see the case against McClain142, claiming that he's [locit] has been dogging him since the beginning of the game without much to show for it.

Merus continues to argue against voting for locit, noting that there's precious little time when locit could have been safely converted and that the Citizens should be able to "build a narrative" behind the Things' actions rather than just shooting blind. He votes for McClain142. However, Destil responds that the Citizens have been killing Things at such a clip that it's been interfering with any attempts at long-term strategy; instead the Things are simply trying to survive.

Sprite reminds the Citizens that locit isn't a blind vote as Merus and others have been characterizing it; dwolfe went out of his way to divert attention from him before he was whacked, which Sprite sees as meaningful enough to press. Merus argues that this was because Umby had already been scanned before, and a wasted rescan tells the Citizens less than a wasted first-time scan. Merus says that the Citizens are putting more emphasis on the implications of this tie-breaking vote than dwolfe ever did.

Eventually Paul le Fou calls time and locit is scanned. He is a Thing, and is killed.

McClain142 votes for Adam, claiming to have been suspicious of him for a long while, with his heavy participation in the McCalin142 bandwagon pushing him over the edge. Merus says that both McClain142 and Adam seem like decent Thing targets, given the Thing M.O. that's emerging (an emphasis on smart, somewhat visible players, but not out-and-out loudmouths who are always the center of attention).

Destil makes another attempt to reconstruct the conversion chain, and discovers a few interesting factoids: dwolfe is probably the longest-lived Thing, at three days, no one else has made it more than two thus far; and no more that two Things have ever had a chance to converse overnight. From this Destil makes the argument that the Things have never been able to get an organized strategy going. In the very next post, Destil puts together a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to namelessentity being a Thing: namelessentity had stated a plan to vote locit first and McClain142 second, perhaps as a gambit to avoid giving the Citizens any extra scans; and namelessentity is the sort of solid-but-not-flashy player the Things seem to covet this round. Destil votes for namelessentity, and Merus agrees and votes for him as well, although more out of a lack of enthusiasm for Adam than out of any real conviction regarding namelessentity's guilt.

Adam reminds the Citizens that they lose after five more missed scans.

Sprite posts a digest of namelessentity, and votes for him. The bandwagon begins building up steam. Namelessentity posts a few defenses which are mostly ignored.

Paul le Fou calls time, and namelessentity is unanimously scanned. He is clean.

shivam
06-28-2010, 11:17 AM
i gotta say that i agree with rai. the game has become pretty boring these past few (in-game) days, and i find i have less and less to add to the conversation.

Sprite
06-28-2010, 02:57 PM
Are you kidding? This is the most fun I've had doing Mafia. Probably the first game we've played where analyses are actually worth something.

You guys just need to get more paranoid and work on your shifty eyes.

McClain
06-28-2010, 03:29 PM
I'm having lots of fun, but goddamn is it hard to actually win this thing. You get down to one or two Things and you just run out of ideas and into longer odds.

The Upper Deck is going to steamroll once they get a hit. I'm looking forward to reading about it.

Destil
06-29-2010, 08:06 AM
You can do it lower deck! I have faith in you!


... Paul I spend the night welding shut all of the lifts that lead between decks, cutting rungs off all of the service ladders and trying to find a way to keep them from cutting out the gravity control.

Calorie Mate
06-29-2010, 10:45 AM
and trying to find a way to keep them from cutting out the gravity control.

Good luck with that! If we get overrun, the last thing I'm doing is smashing gravity control to a million pieces. And trying to open all the airlocks simultaneously, but don't worry about that.

JohnB
06-30-2010, 08:18 AM
Holy crap, the Lower Deck is down to it's last scan. DRAMA ENSUES!

Adam
06-30-2010, 08:22 AM
Pssh. We're purposefully flubbing so we can wait until the last possible day and then scan all of the Things without missing. It's going to be badass and you guys will be totally lame in comparison.

Man I can't wait for this to happen. I'm not holding my breath though. Mainly because we were able to divert airlock power away from you guys.

dwolfe
06-30-2010, 10:11 AM
Holy crap, the Lower Deck is down to it's last scan. DRAMA ENSUES!

I'm honestly not sure if it'd be more awesome for LD things to win with a clean sweep, or for LD to take them all out in the coming weeks in one fell swoop. It's amazing how differently the games have progressed, which I think is a good sign this was a good rule-set (unlike the [Angel roulette/Inspector wins it for you] optimal strategy of M1/2).

Alpha Werewolf
06-30-2010, 10:26 AM
I'm honestly not sure if it'd be more awesome for LD things to win with a clean sweep, or for LD to take them all out in the coming weeks in one fell swoop. It's amazing how differently the games have progressed, which I think is a good sign this was a good rule-set (unlike the [Angel roulette/Inspector wins it for you] optimal strategy of M1/2).

That's not good design. That's differences in the playerbase and their ability/willingness to analyze the other players daily and figure out the PRCYs, againt the PRCYs' ability to act natural and pick the best targets.

Calorie Mate
06-30-2010, 10:30 AM
Of course it's not good design, Alpha. There aren't enough magic powers or whatever.

Alpha Werewolf
06-30-2010, 10:37 AM
Of course it's not good design, Alpha. There aren't enough magic powers or whatever.

Apologies. I was talking about the degree of difference between the games, not the design itself.

dwolfe
06-30-2010, 11:22 AM
That's not good design. That's differences in the playerbase and their ability/willingness to analyze the other players daily and figure out the PRCYs, againt the PRCYs' ability to act natural and pick the best targets.

My point was that the rule set allowed the differences in the player base to shine through, both in ideas and execution, rather than both runs behaving similarly because there's one obviously overpowered/optimal strategy that someone will pick up on each game. Or because half the people have no clue what's going on and give up.

The Thing has about as simple of rules as possible, yet some people still just washed their hands of it. Imagine if they needed hours more per day to figure out the complexities of a AW-run game! You need to close it to all but the most committed to run that style of game, whereas we just wanted to goof off with everyone and have fun doing so.

tl;dr: So I think AW might be agreeing with me, while making it only look like he's disagreeing. I got that from running that through the [AWLaunguageParserBot3000] translation system.

Traumadore
06-30-2010, 12:52 PM
I think it's cute that the Upper Deck believes they can win.

dwolfe
06-30-2010, 01:11 PM
So would anyone mind if I held signups for the Modified M3-style rules I proposed once Lower is over?

Nope! I'll be the first to sign up for M5 if I can; I assume you'd run or have someone else run a second round if there were interest, right? for all the UD people still alive, that is.

Man, i can't wait to be killed on night 0 by the GM ;)

And then rezzed to be killed day 1 by the citizens, just to be sure.

Sprite
06-30-2010, 01:16 PM
I think it's cute that the Upper Deck believes they can win.
We've demonstrated that the game can be won, at least. We kind of flubbed that chance, mind you...

Kylie
06-30-2010, 01:22 PM
If people can play two games at once with a modicum of skill, my hat's off to them. I couldn't do it.

That said, there's usually been a week or two of postgame, mechanics discussion, decompression etc, so it may not be too hard to get the two decks together before a new game starts.

M3+2 could definitely be some great stuff.

kaisel
06-30-2010, 01:23 PM
So would anyone mind if I held signups for the Modified M3-style rules I proposed once Lower is over?

Go for it, it'll be nice to have some hope again.

I have one small idea for a rule change though. Based on some of the Mafia's discussion during the last game, it seemed the best strategy was to convert immediately. Maybe the conversion can only be used after a Mafioso is hit? It doesn't really matter to me, but I think it might be a neat little twist, give a sense of paranoia after you hit your first mafioso.

Alpha Werewolf
06-30-2010, 01:44 PM
My point was that the rule set allowed the differences in the player base to shine through, both in ideas and execution, rather than both runs behaving similarly because there's one obviously overpowered/optimal strategy that someone will pick up on each game. Or because half the people have no clue what's going on and give up.

The Thing has about as simple of rules as possible, yet some people still just washed their hands of it. Imagine if they needed hours more per day to figure out the complexities of a AW-run game! You need to close it to all but the most committed to run that style of game, whereas we just wanted to goof off with everyone and have fun doing so.

tl;dr: So I think AW might be agreeing with me, while making it only look like he's disagreeing. I got that from running that through the [AWLaunguageParserBot3000] translation system.

No, that's possible in most setups, as long as they're not obviously weighed towards one side (see also: M1&2&3).

Also: You guys are still vastly overestimating the complexity of a game that I run. My games will be at a way lesser complexity level than most games I play, and these in turn don't get very complex. That Duel Monsters mafia I linked to a while ago? That's the most complex game I've played.

Alpha Werewolf
06-30-2010, 02:00 PM
It's pretty easy to overestimate or underestimate its complexity when you don't tell us anything about it! Argh why am I having this argument again.

I actually told you everything about the setup I'm planning to run.

Nodal
06-30-2010, 02:04 PM
I actually told you everything about the setup I'm planning to run.

It's like were having two different conversations.

McClain
06-30-2010, 02:06 PM
I don't want to completely stratify the player base.

there's usually been a week or two of postgame, mechanics discussion, decompression etc.

These are two very good reasons to wait, I think. This is my first mafia, and I'm having a great time, but I want a break between games, and to get the full fun out of this one will take a little bit of time to examine it with all the info.

Also, I want to try to play with some new people.

Are there any short-form games (like, a week or two) that the LDs can play while we finish up?

(mostly I want to get a chance to kill Eddie again.)

Alpha Werewolf
06-30-2010, 02:07 PM
It's like were having two different conversations.

The one I meant to run at first, I haven't revealed everything about and am not planning to. The one I'm planning to run now however, I posted in full detail in the last poll thread. I believe.

Calorie Mate
06-30-2010, 02:42 PM
I hate all of you that have given up on the Lower Deck. It's not over yet!

Well, one of the big reasons for immediate conversion was the danger that the Don (the player with the conversion power) might be lynched at any time. The modified rules make it a shared power amongst the mafia, so they can feel more at their leisure to use it when it would have the greatest effect.

My only problem with the Don power was that it makes zero sense to not use it immediately. Why not increase your numbers from the get-go and increase voting power? It's not like The Thing variant, where someone trusted can be subsequently corrupted - since the onyl fully trusted people are the dead ones.

I'd love to hear a way around this, because I do think it's a cool idea...just...not in its current form.

Calorie Mate
06-30-2010, 02:54 PM
Ok, true, that had slipped my mind. I'm still not convinced that turning someone immediately isn't always the best play, though - and heck, the Mafia in M3 did the same thing, didn't they?

Kylie
06-30-2010, 03:52 PM
As much as I like the conversion concept, I will admit that saving it for later seems sub-optimal for the Mafia. But this is all theorycrafting, and it's useless to theorycraft outside the game, and people hate you when you theorycraft within it.

Having the power spread amongst the bad guys makes it less of a throwaway choice; some other internal, perhaps citizen-unknown limiter condition might aid in this, though that's getting a bit complicated.

locit
06-30-2010, 06:37 PM
I think it's cute that the Upper Deck believes they can win.
Isn't it just adorable?

Destil
06-30-2010, 09:53 PM
My only problem with the Don power was that it makes zero sense to not use it immediately. Why not increase your numbers from the get-go and increase voting power? It's not like The Thing variant, where someone trusted can be subsequently corrupted - since the onyl fully trusted people are the dead ones.No, dude. By night there there was a clear case of someone being a fantastic conversion target (Byron), and by killing him we tipped our hand that we had already used the power on top of not getting him.

Trust me, there's a lot more play to that power than we saw in M3. The main issue I have with the don is the double-shot it can be used as to hit the inspector. I'd suggest possibly having a rule where if the inspector is converted someone else becomes an inspector and learns everything they knew, myself, just to blunt that edge a bit... or just make the conversion happen instead of the night kill or something.

Mr. J
06-30-2010, 10:46 PM
I think some kind of announcement that someone has been converted would be good. It would have to be some random time after the conversion. It could be everything from immediately after the conversion to two days after the conversions.

Night 0: Conversion
Day 0-Day 2: Announcement

That way there isn't the constant paranoia of is he converted for the whole game, but there is still a definite uncertainty.

Paul le Fou
07-01-2010, 02:08 AM
One thing about starting a new game already (i.e. before the other game ends) is that it locks the players in the same lineup they just played with instead of mixing things up, which I think everyone would be into.


Also, I don't have anything solid now, but while I wouldn't mind getting into another barebones game, I think I'm ready to mess around with power roles again. Mix things up. Keep us on edge!

Brickroad
07-01-2010, 06:15 AM
Just so's you know, I'm-a pitch Survivor again for M5. Even though it's not really Mafia, I'm still gonna call it M5. You can't stop me. YOU ALL CAN'T STOP ME.

Nodal
07-01-2010, 08:48 AM
Just so's you know, I'm-a pitch Survivor again for M5. Even though it's not really Mafia, I'm still gonna call it M5. You can't stop me. YOU ALL CAN'T STOP ME.

Why do you want to call it M5? BECAUSE YOU'RE PRESCIENT MAFIA? Get the rope!

Calorie Mate
07-01-2010, 11:03 AM
Also, I don't have anything solid now, but while I wouldn't mind getting into another barebones game, I think I'm ready to mess around with power roles again. Mix things up. Keep us on edge!

I can get behind that. I vote to play Alpha Werewolf's stupid secret game.

Alpha Werewolf
07-01-2010, 11:53 AM
I can get behind that. I vote to play Alpha Werewolf's stupid secret game.

Please make it clear which one you mean, because I have two setups suggested here. The first is Talking Time Mafia, which is the setup that I've been keeping as mysterious as possible about. The second is Desktop Dungeons Mafia, the setup of which I've fully disclosed.

Calorie Mate
07-01-2010, 12:21 PM
The stupid secret one, not the stupid one you told us about.

Sprite
07-01-2010, 04:46 PM
Geez, you guys are so mean.

Alpha, I propose that if you run a game you make it Mafia vs. Capcom themed.

dwolfe
07-01-2010, 06:41 PM
I would play AW's super secret game. Seriously. After the barebones of the last couple games, something different would be nice (so would Brick's M5-Survivor), as long as we don't forget how well the past iterations worked.

...We need another poll, don't we? Or, if they're smaller 15-person games, we could run two different games at once? Let's wait till M4's are played out, but I like the idea of two different, small games going.

Destil
07-01-2010, 11:24 PM
One thing about starting a new game already (i.e. before the other game ends) is that it locks the players in the same lineup they just played with instead of mixing things up, which I think everyone would be into.

Also, I don't have anything solid now, but while I wouldn't mind getting into another barebones game, I think I'm ready to mess around with power roles again. Mix things up. Keep us on edge!

Yeah. I'd prefer to keep the community together. Can the three remaining things in our game just come forward so we can end it quickly? It won't hurt... for long.

Also, I'm all about doing a pitch for M5. And something with some power roles would be just fine in my book, too.

Alpha Werewolf
07-02-2010, 02:04 AM
I'd rather not run two iterations of my game at the same time, so if we're running my game I think somebody else should run another game.

Calorie Mate
07-02-2010, 09:24 AM
Good lord, now we can finally stop taking so much abuse in this thread! We totally won. Clearly the Upper Deck just has lamer Things then the proud Lower Deck.

Now to find a way to open up that grate between the decks...

Tanto
07-02-2010, 09:55 AM
Lower Deck Day 7 and post-game wrap!
Posts #749-End

There is a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth regarding the precarious situation the Citizens have allow themselves to be placed in. (Some of this wailing is, in retrospect, hilarious.) Calorie Mate calls for ideas. Tock suggests voting for Mr. J, as, even if he's clean, the Citizens learn something. Despite the fact that this has never worked ever, the Citizens immediately fall in line behind this without question (except for dtsund, who tries to start some momentum towards scanning Calorie Mate). Mr. J is rescanned and found to still be clean.

Several players say that it would be hilarious to blow their last vote on a joke vote, like Byron or Brickroad. However, kaisel suggests going after demonkoala instead, and Byron agrees. It becomes clear that the non-Things are putting zero effort whatsoever into this last vote, so I'm not gonna either. Long story short, demonkoala is scanned, he's clean, Citizens are shut out. Game over!

The Moral of the Story: So hey, it turns out that attempting to hedge your bets and play both sides means that you can't effectively play either. It also seems that actively attempting to quash discussion means that you don't have any information trails to follow when it comes down to it. And institutionalized bandwagoning is perhaps not the strategic innovation of the century.

Calorie Mate
07-02-2010, 10:06 AM
You forgot the part where Giant Head and I beat the shit out of Kaisel. (By which I mean, really enjoyed the flavor text, Paul!)

Nodal
07-02-2010, 10:08 AM
You forgot the part where Giant Head and I beat the shit out of Kaisel.

Thing Mate is a friend to all Things, but definitely not Kaisel.

Calorie Mate
07-02-2010, 10:12 AM
I feel particularly bad for him because Kaisel was on the right track for awhile there...but nobody would listen to him, and having Things misdirect the conversation wasn't helping. The dude totally deserved at least one Thing to his name and was robbed.

kaisel
07-02-2010, 10:23 AM
Well that was a long, sometimes miserable, slog. But I have to say the Infected played an incredibly good game, made even better because most of them were the top posters

I feel particularly bad for him because Kaisel was on the right track for awhile there...but nobody would listen to him, and having Things misdirect the conversation wasn't helping. The dude totally deserved at least one Thing to his name and was robbed.

Yeah, looking at who were Things and who I had at least some suspicions of (you early in the game, a little bit for The Giant Head (but not enough to actually go anywhere) and Eddie a bit too at the end) makes me laugh. I should have been a bit more adamant on some things though.

You forgot the part where Giant Head and I beat the shit out of Kaisel. (By which I mean, really enjoyed the flavor text, Paul!)

Man, after I publicly proclaimed that I was your buddy too.

Tock
07-02-2010, 10:36 AM
Man, after I publicly proclaimed that I was your buddy too.

As the Final Thing, you are still our buddy. Congrats on winning M4LD, kaisel!

My favorite part of this game might be how Tanto's summaries became more and more disgusted and half-heartedly slapped together.

Tanto
07-02-2010, 10:44 AM
My favorite part of this game might be how Tanto's summaries became more and more disgusted and half-heartedly slapped together.

I was actually kind of worried about this, but when 80% of the conversation is "I accuse So-and-Such without any reasoning." "That sounds good to me." "Me too." "Cheeseburgers." and 10% of the remaining is petty sniping and insults, there isn't a whole lot to summarize. I regret nothing!

Calorie Mate
07-02-2010, 11:13 AM
It was too bad you guys kind of rolled over and died at the end, there. But then, we systematically converted the most influential people, so you guys were having a hard time finding anyone get involved. Sorry!

Tock
07-02-2010, 11:20 AM
I was actually kind of worried about this, but when 80% of the conversation is "I accuse So-and-Such without any reasoning." "That sounds good to me." "Me too." "Cheeseburgers." and 10% of the remaining is petty sniping and insults, there isn't a whole lot to summarize. I regret nothing!

Your narratives captured the true essence of Lower Deck.

Nodal
07-02-2010, 11:22 AM
All I can say is thank goodness we never installed those comically large vents.

Brickroad
07-02-2010, 11:28 AM
Lower Deck rules. Turns out getting steamrolled in a flawless victory is almost as fun as winning with one!

Great game, brosephs.

dtsund
07-02-2010, 12:04 PM
It was too bad you guys kind of rolled over and died at the end, there. But then, we systematically converted the most influential people, so you guys were having a hard time finding anyone get involved. Sorry!

If I really were the most influential person when I got converted, you'd have durn well been scanned on Day 6. Git'er done!

Or probably not, because I think I was absolutely right when I talked about the Thing-bloc on that day. Anyway, sorry I was gunning for you Day 7; it would have broken character for me to not do that. If momentum had picked up and you were actually scanned, my next plan was to use my clout as the only person who'd actually found a Thing to mislead the crucial second vote.

Also, you were hoping to get converted, weren't you, Brickroad?

Brickroad
07-02-2010, 12:13 PM
It certainly would have been nice!

Calorie Mate
07-02-2010, 12:49 PM
If I really were the most influential person when I got converted, you'd have durn well been scanned on Day 6. Git'er done!

Or probably not, because I think I was absolutely right when I talked about the Thing-bloc on that day. Anyway, sorry I was gunning for you Day 7; it would have broken character for me to not do that. If momentum had picked up and you were actually scanned, my next plan was to use my clout as the only person who'd actually found a Thing to mislead the crucial second vote.

Hey, no worries. I figured you were assuming I'd be scanned and wanted to distance yourself. You should never doubt The Calorie Mate, though!

It certainly would have been nice!

Like Byron said in the other thread (and we said in the logs), you were playing for us without actually being on our team. It was...kind of an awful strategy, for you.

Brickroad
07-02-2010, 12:52 PM
Like Byron said in the other thread (and we said in the logs), you were playing for us without actually being on our team. It was...kind of an awful strategy, for you.

No more awful than anyone else on Lower Deck!

I agree with Paul that you're totally MVP though. Had me fooled the whole game. In M3 you proved you were pretty much a dunce, so in M4 when you were acting like a dunce I was like "oh caloriesman" and not "hmm I BET HE IS PLAYING US ALL".

Well done sir. I'm going to be watching out for your white ass in M5.

Nodal
07-02-2010, 12:55 PM
I agree with Paul that you're totally MVP though. Had me fooled the whole game. In M3 you proved you were pretty much a dunce, so in M4 when you were acting like a dunce I was like "oh caloriesman" and not "hmm I BET HE IS PLAYING US ALL".

Brickroad is the master of the backhanded compliments.

Brickroad
07-02-2010, 12:56 PM
Brickroad is the master of the backhanded compliments.

It takes a lot of practice to be this big of a douchebag.

Calorie Mate
07-02-2010, 12:58 PM
No more awful than anyone else on Lower Deck!

I agree with Paul that you're totally MVP though. Had me fooled the whole game. In M3 you proved you were pretty much a dunce, so in M4 when you were acting like a dunce I was like "oh caloriesman" and not "hmm I BET HE IS PLAYING US ALL".

Well done sir. I'm going to be watching out for your white ass in M5.

The first day I was converted, I actually went back to M3 and looked over a couple of my old posts for reference, to do exactly that. I'm...not sure that strategy will ever be viable again.

Calorie Mate
07-02-2010, 01:02 PM
Also, now that I'm not in danger, I can finally say: I really liked this variant simply because if someone innocent mouthed off too much, they wouldn't be booted from the game because the Citizens - as usual - were knuckleheads and voted for them. I mean, that didn't help me (until the last day or two when I kicked it up a notch) personally, but if I'd been Clean I would have talked up a storm. It was weird that you guys were so quiet in a game where you weren't executed for talking.

kaisel
07-02-2010, 01:09 PM
Also, now that I'm not in danger, I can finally say: I really liked this variant simply because if someone innocent mouthed off too much, they wouldn't be booted from the game because the Citizens - as usual - were knuckleheads and voted for them. I mean, that didn't help me (until the last day or two when I kicked it up a notch) personally, but if I'd been Clean I would have talked up a storm. It was weird that you guys were so quiet in a game where you weren't executed for talking.

I like that idea in theory, but I came to realize one benefit of eradicating whoever's voted for is that the town can sort of enforce a style of playing. If most people are quiet, then you start kicking them out of the game.

Granted, that would've screwed us this game, but it's one upside.

I'd kind of like to see a variant where you have the first 48 hours to vote and lynch (maybe get their status), then a 24 hour period after that where the lynchee gets to say his spiel, try to help out the town in anyway he can, before dying.

dtsund
07-02-2010, 01:17 PM
I like that idea in theory, but I came to realize one benefit of eradicating whoever's voted for is that the town can sort of enforce a style of playing. If most people are quiet, then you start kicking them out of the game.

Granted, that would've screwed us this game, but it's one upside.

I'd kind of like to see a variant where you have the first 48 hours to vote and lynch (maybe get their status), then a 24 hour period after that where the lynchee gets to say his spiel, try to help out the town in anyway he can, before dying.

Not exactly the same, but I'm aware of a role, the Mayor, that has a related effect. When someone's lynched, the execution doesn't take place immediately, but rather at the start of the next day phase. During the night phase, the Mayor (who's innocent) can possibly decide to issue a pardon on the convicted party.

I've never played in a game with a Mayor, though, so I can't say if it's any fun. I still want the next power-roles game to include a Devil, though.

Sprite
07-02-2010, 01:43 PM
More like Bricknoise, amirite?

Umby
07-02-2010, 07:00 PM
Good job, Things of the Deck Under Me. Now I hope the Upper Deck can close out the game quickly so we can send the under deck hurtling out into space, and then party on the corpses of the Things.

I gotta be the worst player on the upper side, though. :|

Paul le Fou
07-03-2010, 07:47 AM
Shivam is going on vacation and won't be back for like 2 weeks. Looking for a replacement!

Alpha Werewolf
07-04-2010, 10:35 AM
Oh man you guys, upper deck got another one. And paul laughed at brickroad. But we all already did that, so let's move on.

...COME ON UPPER DECK!

Adam
07-05-2010, 10:25 AM
Hey Paul I retract my vote that I hate McClain

McClain
07-05-2010, 12:31 PM
Hey Paul I retract my vote that I hate McClain

We're still cool, bro. I can't wait to find out how long you played me.

Umby
07-06-2010, 10:24 AM
So clooooooooooooooooooose

Tanto
07-06-2010, 10:41 AM
Upper Deck Day 7
Posts #835-1011

Sprite admits being at loose ends with namelessentity confirmed clean, but nonetheless suggests voting for either McClain142 (who has been the target of multiple confirmed cleans thus far, but has managed to avoid being scanned) or spineshark (who is a quiet player in a game where loud players have been targeted disproportionately). Adam reminds the Citizens that they have only six more missed scans remaining.

Namelessentity likes Sprite as a conversion target, but doesn't see any window in which it could have happened (assuming the conversion chain the Citizens are working off of is accurate). He says the Citizens should begin considering rescans, putting forth the name of Rai.

Destil says that while scanning quiet players is all well and good if there's a Thing among them, it's hard to pick out a Thing from among them and even if the Citizens find one, it doesn't tell them much.

Adam wonders aloud whether a Thing would be more likely to try and move the discussion or stay back in the shadows and let the Citizens snipe at each other.

Sprite and Nodal vote for McClain142, and McClain142 responds by voting for Destil, claiming that a player who's been scanned twice already is a perfect target for Things, and Destil has recently been posting some rambling, circular arguments that don't really go anywhere. Also, Destil led the bandwagon against the (innocent) namelessentity.

Paul le Fou calls time and McClain142, as the leading vote-getter, is scanned. He is clean.

Sprite guesses that the Things saw an opportunity to waste a vote by dogpiling on McClain142, and took it. He asks Umby and Merus why they didn't vote.

McClain142 points out that Adam, Destil, and shivam all voted for him twice when he was clean, and odds are at least one of them is corrupted. There is a long (somewhat circular) debate about the merits of those three as Things, plus Merus, who McClain142 later adds to the list. Shivam says he'll be going on vacation, and requests a replacement. Umby points out that Adam is trying to shift blame onto Merus. Adam clarifies that he's actually trying to shift blame to shivam, characterizing Merus as either an accomplice or a patsy, which is... kind of an improvement, I guess?

Merus steps in momentarily to vote for Sprite, who he sees as controlling the direction of the game somewhat, a la Lower Deck. He later admits that he's searching for the Upper Deck equivalent to Calorie Mate. Somewhat later he points out that several people jumped on this bandwagon despite a fairly weak case, which might be worth looking into. Nonetheless, he votes for Adam.

Paul le Fou calls time and Adam narrowly wins the vote. He is revealed to be a Thing, and is killed. The Day continues. Nich replaces shivam from this point forward.

Namelessentity suggests looking into the players who attempted to save Adam. He says he likes Rai the best of these, but could be persuaded to vote for spineshark.

McClain142 votes for spineshark, pointing out that the latter was involved in several ties involving Things and snaps defensively at anyone who expresses suspicion. Sprite notes that the ties are pretty much meaningless, as several clean players took similar actions, but likes McClain142's other points.

Nich makes a long post in which he theorizes about the conversion chain. His primary break from the established theory is the idea that Adam was converted on Night 3, after he'd been instrumental in getting Eddie killed. He also concludes that Destil and Merus are clean, as their behavior during the Adam vote was not Thingish. He votes for Sprite, seeing him as a good conversion target in the Adam mold. Nodal and Merus go along with this.

Sprite responds by voting for spineshark, and Destil agrees (mostly because he can't figure out a way to work a Sprite conversion into the timeline). As he previously said, namelessentity changes his vote to spineshark, since his attempt to scan Rai didn't pick up any steam.

Spineshark votes for Rai rather than break a four-four tie between Sprite and spineshark, which namelessentity sees as a Thing ploy. Nich agrees and changes his vote to spineshark, breaking the tie. Spineshark is scanned, and found clean.

Nodal
07-06-2010, 10:55 AM
Why do I ever let people talk me into changing my vote. Rrrgh.

Is everyone going to change their vote when I go along with their logic to vote for Sprite? Everyone?!

McClain
07-06-2010, 12:42 PM
Man, this game is impossible to finish. It's going end with three players in a Mexican standoff.

Alpha Werewolf
07-06-2010, 12:54 PM
Man, this game is impossible to finish. It's going end with three players in a Mexican standoff.

One of my main problems with it.

spineshark
07-06-2010, 12:57 PM
Man, this game is impossible to finish. It's going end with three players in a Mexican standoff.
This is actually exactly what I'm hoping for.

Umby
07-06-2010, 01:01 PM
Man, this game is impossible to finish. It's going end with three players in a Mexican standoff.

I've noticed this. We need to get lucky to win this game. I sure hope we can finish the fight Halo 3 style when the next day starts.

McClain
07-06-2010, 01:13 PM
I'm going to save them for post-game, but I've thought about a few tweaks to make this game a little more balanced. In general, I will say that it does rely a little too much on luck. I'm having a lot of fun, but just hearing you guys talking about other mafia games makes me droll for some power roles.

Calorie Mate
07-06-2010, 04:34 PM
Man, this game is impossible to finish. It's going end with three players in a Mexican standoff.

One of my main problems with it.

This is actually exactly what I'm hoping for.

Yeah, same here. It'll be really, really funny to read if that happens.

dwolfe
07-06-2010, 07:00 PM
Yeah, same here. It'll be really, really funny to read if that happens.

It'd be an ideal outcome, I think, as 13/15 people would have been a Thing during the game (the 'power role' guys); but not all of the Things would have gotten to talk with their team overnight.

Hurry up and kill 'em guys, so we can get M5 going!

Adam
07-06-2010, 08:45 PM
Yeah, same here. It'll be really, really funny to read if that happens.

Well, I have said that it's the way to ensure that the most people win. Sucks to be the two remaining "good guys" at that point though.

Sprite
07-06-2010, 08:47 PM
Unless the two good guys manage to suss it out, in which case it would be awesome for everyone involved.

Adam
07-06-2010, 10:11 PM
No, I think I really prefer the one where 12 other people and I win.

Destil
07-07-2010, 02:15 AM
Well, I have said that it's the way to ensure that the most people win. Sucks to be the two remaining "good guys" at that point though.

Actually, I realized after the fact that there's two 'optimal' win conditions for the maximum number of players:

Kill the initial thing day 1. Total winners: 15
Have 1 thing survive until the last day. The last night infection means there's also 15 winners.

Torgo
07-07-2010, 03:15 AM
I haven't paid attention to the current game or the previous one, but I have to say I'm pretty stoked to (hopefully) get in on the upcoming one. It will be nice to be in a game that isn't deliberately sabotaged. (Though darn it if it wasn't fun all the same.)

Merus
07-07-2010, 08:23 AM
I feel bad, but on the other hand spineshark genuinely thinks I'm a genius so I guess I can't be too upset.

JohnB
07-07-2010, 12:05 PM
How was the game deliberately sabotaged?

Calorie Mate
07-07-2010, 01:07 PM
I will miss a game where you're not kicked out of the game when everyone arbitrarily piles onto you.

dwolfe
07-07-2010, 02:22 PM
How was the game deliberately sabotaged?

Someone created an alternate account who was supposedly The Best Mafia Player EVAR(tm) and got one account in each of the two games. And proceeded to be kinda jerky and unpleasant.

One side unanimously (including all the fellow Mafia, so we were one Mafia down to start) killed the guy, the other side waited and got the guy booted and replaced.

But really, it's not worth worrying about except as a bit of board history. No one has ever just sold out their fellow Mafia wholesale or anything.

Alpha Werewolf
07-07-2010, 10:11 PM
Someone created an alternate account who was supposedly The Best Mafia Player EVAR(tm) and got one account in each of the two games. And proceeded to be kinda jerky and unpleasant.

One side unanimously (including all the fellow Mafia, so we were one Mafia down to start) killed the guy, the other side waited and got the guy booted and replaced.

But really, it's not worth worrying about except as a bit of board history. No one has ever just sold out their fellow Mafia wholesale or anything.

If I recall correctly, the side that had him replaced vigged him that night.

Adam
07-07-2010, 11:54 PM
Actually, I realized after the fact that there's two 'optimal' win conditions for the maximum number of players:

Kill the initial thing day 1. Total winners: 15

Well if you had been a good sport and been Patient Zero like I wanted, then we could have done this.

Why do you have to be so contrary, Destil?

Merus
07-08-2010, 12:20 AM
If I recall correctly, the side that had him replaced vigged him that night.
Nope, shivam was the replacement and fought valiantly for a couple of days before anyone thought to take a closer look at him.

The replacement came, in part, because I was informed that the player in question was unlikely to return to the community.

JohnB
07-08-2010, 01:36 AM
Oh, yes... I know exactly who you're talking about now. I think I took Torgo's comment to mean that the current M4 Thing Mafia games had been compromised, which made no sense to me. That other joker... yeah. Hard to forget about that.

Destil
07-08-2010, 06:38 PM
Nope, shivam was the replacement and fought valiantly for one day and was shotgunned that night.

Fixed! I miss the vigilante...

shivam
07-12-2010, 01:54 PM
so, did uppers win yet?

Sprite
07-12-2010, 01:56 PM
We found another Thing!

We're delaying the inevitable, perhaps, but at least we're finding them.

dwolfe
07-12-2010, 04:04 PM
We found another Thing!

We're delaying the inevitable, perhaps, but at least we're finding them.

You guys are making it entertaining...I do hope everyone is enjoying UD still...but are you guys getting tired yet? This could go on for another month, and I want more mafia soon! Someone hurry up and win!!

Sprite
07-12-2010, 09:43 PM
I'm still having a blast, though it's definitely wearing me out. I might sit out the next round.

Nodal
07-13-2010, 10:30 AM
:D I enjoyed this whole round, and after we win I'll be wanting to play again.

Tanto
07-13-2010, 10:34 AM
Upper Deck Day 8
Posts #1013-1145

Nich opens the day by voting for Sprite, who he had been swayed off of the previous day. He says he will not be talked into doing the same today. Nodal and Merus concur.

Umby, however, suggests the name of Rai, while namelessentity puts up Nodal for consideration. Destil initially likes Rai for the second scan, but becomes uneasy with it later, seeing it as too obvious.

Everyone seems to take the Sprite scan as an inevitability, and begin talking about what to do next. Nich begs the Citizens to wait until the second scan of the day to vote for him if they decide to do so, which Destil and namelessentity read as an audacious ploy.

A few of the Sprite voters begin waffling, unsure of his guilt, but Merus says that people will continue voting for him until the matter is settled once and for all, so it's best to get it out of the way.

Destil and McClain142 discuss the Adam vote. They come to the conclusion that the remaining Things can probably be found among those who voted for Sprite, in the event that he's clean. Destil notes that this leaves no room on the Things for Nich.

Paul le Fou calls time and Sprite is scanned. He is clean.

Nich immediately jumps on Rai, as do Destil and McClain142.

Umby requests a list of everyone who's voted for Sprite in the past.

Rai votes for Nodal, claiming that either he or namelessentity is a Thing, and maybe both. Umby votes for Nodal as well, pointing out that he's contibuting nothing besides votes.

Nich and Umby make the case for either Nodal or Rai being Things, based on their behavior during the Adam vote. Nich changes his vote to Nodal, as does McClain142. Merus votes for Nodal, finding the bandwagon against Rai to be suspicious.

Destil and Nich argue about when Nich should be scanned, if ever.

Paul le Fou calls time and Nodal is scanned by a hair. He is revealed to be a Thing, and is killed. The Day continues.

Rai votes for namelessentity. Umby expresses suspicion of Destil, and Nich votes for him. McClain142 argues that the Things though they had a Rai vote in the bag, only for it to turn around on them suddenly; for that reason, he votes for namelessentity.

Sprite points out that namelessentity voted for Nodal during the Sprite vote. McClain142 says this was likely a bluff, and Rai confirms that it was on the first scan, so even if the Citizens surprised him and followed his lead, it wouldn't be a disaster for the Things.

There is a lengthy discussion about namelessentity's guilt which nonetheless results in no changed minds.

Paul le Fou calls time and namelessentity is scanned. He is clean.

McClain
07-13-2010, 10:34 AM
rassum frassum grraaaarjklajdfkls

%^&@&*$^@#*&&@%#&@^%#*&@%#!!!

namelessentity
07-13-2010, 02:26 PM
%^&@&*$^@#*&&@%#&@^%#*&@%#!!!

Well, I'm glad that you and Nich are taking this hard. It means you were actually trying, as opposed to some people

dtsund
07-13-2010, 02:28 PM
Well, I'm glad that you and Nich are taking this hard. It means you were actually trying, as opposed to some people

http://manspeak.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/i-can-has-cheezburger.jpg

Umby
07-13-2010, 03:20 PM
Bah, here we go again, with three things. I'm really not liking this game, guys.

Calorie Mate
07-13-2010, 03:50 PM
Well, I'm glad that you and Nich are taking this hard. It means you were actually trying, as opposed to some people

Or they're meta-gaming the fuck out of this thread, like I did!

kaisel
07-13-2010, 04:02 PM
Or they're meta-gaming the fuck out of this thread, like I did!

Which was one of the reasons I was so sure you weren't a Thing! Serves me right for trying to metagame.

Brickroad
07-13-2010, 04:40 PM
Or they're meta-gaming the fuck out of this thread, like I did!

I have never been so attracted to a man in my life.

dtsund
07-13-2010, 05:08 PM
Nothing Calorie Mate said in this thread dissuaded me from thinking he was really a Thing. Not a word of it.

On an unrelated note, looking at the Bronto game made me think that the Auction House might be fun for a TT game... if there are no power roles at all. The flipside, of course, being that powers get sold off to the citizenry throughout the game; of course, the Mafia can buy them too, so we'd have to balance that somehow. What they're running currently is just way too chaotic, though.

Bongo Bill
07-14-2010, 12:30 AM
I have invented a wacky variant for an odd number of players plus Brickroad.

Brickroad is a special player who cannot vote but must speak. He has a powerful night action. Players can vote for him and talk to him but he cannot otherwise be interacted with; killing Brickroad ends the game. The identities of the dead will not be revealed; instead, they will be disclosed privately to Brickroad, who must unambiguously inform the other players publicly. He is permitted to lie.

The game will randomly be arranged in one of two configurations: Good Brickroad or Evil Brickroad.

In the Good Brickroad configuration, there are mafia, and their numbers place them two away from an absolute majority. Brickroad's night action is to choose any player; if innocent, there is no effect; if mafia, that player dies and the mafia's night kill is prevented. If Brickroad is killed, the mafia win. If all the mafia are eliminated, Brickroad and the innocents win.

In the Evil Brickroad configuration, there is no mafia, and Brickroad is given a random list of players whom he must kill. His night action is to kill one other player. If Brickroad is killed, all other players win; if everyone on his list is dead, he wins and everyone else loses.

If no Brickroad can be found, a volunteer replacement will be needed.

Comb Stranger
07-14-2010, 12:49 AM
New variant I propose:

There are X mafia, and the rest are civilians. The twist is that the mafia don't kill players at night, and also that there isn't a thread about it.

Tanto
07-14-2010, 10:32 AM
I have invented a wacky variant for an odd number of players plus Brickroad.

Brickroad is a special player who cannot vote but must speak. He has a powerful night action. Players can vote for him and talk to him but he cannot otherwise be interacted with; killing Brickroad ends the game. The identities of the dead will not be revealed; instead, they will be disclosed privately to Brickroad, who must unambiguously inform the other players publicly. He is permitted to lie.

So wait, Brickroad can lie and say "So-and-So was killed last night" when they actually weren't? What's to stop that person from entering the thread and gainsaying him?

Alpha Werewolf
07-14-2010, 10:37 AM
I have never been so attracted to a man in my life.

But does he give you double meat?

Calorie Mate
07-14-2010, 11:16 AM
I have never been so attracted to a man in my life.

I did it all for you, tiger. ;)

dtsund
07-14-2010, 03:12 PM
So wait, Brickroad can lie and say "So-and-So was killed last night" when they actually weren't? What's to stop that person from entering the thread and gainsaying him?

Clearly, you do not understand just how powerful Brickroad is, in said game. Such a person would be struck dead instantly.

And no, I don't mean game-dead.

Bongo Bill
07-16-2010, 09:22 PM
So wait, Brickroad can lie and say "So-and-So was killed last night" when they actually weren't? What's to stop that person from entering the thread and gainsaying him?

I thought it was clear that I was referring to their roles. Brickroad has to say whether they were Mafia or not. Because the alternative would be stupid.

locit
07-16-2010, 10:14 PM
NOW IS THE TIME ON MAFIA WHEN WE SCANCE
I laughed.

Destil
07-17-2010, 09:05 AM
You know, that extra scan from pinning me second would be really handy on upper deck right now, wouldn't it?

Go get 'em, team!

(I had the gravity rigged to enter a maintenance cycle, Calories. If not for that damn magnet you guys could be up here already.)

Adam
07-17-2010, 09:38 AM
Man, it's odd how we all go homicidal in the end, but we never really end up getting any of the crewmembers.


There was a sickening pop, and Adam was gone before shivam hit the floor.

Oh wait :D

<3 Paul

Nodal
07-17-2010, 10:03 AM
Man, it's odd how we all go homicidal in the end, but we never really end up getting any of the crewmembers.



Oh wait :D

<3 Paul

The only success of us all.

Destil
07-17-2010, 10:06 AM
The only success of us all.

We're not done yet...

McClain
07-17-2010, 10:09 AM
Man, Mecha-Destil was freaky amazing. I hope Paul doesn't run out of the awesome juice before we can kill the rest of them!

Alpha Werewolf
07-17-2010, 10:49 AM
Man you guys. I can't wait for this one to end. It's fucking epic to read, except when you're actually discussing shit endlessly.

Brickroad
07-17-2010, 01:37 PM
I play Mafia to argue with guys, which is why I'm a little sad that Destil is dead--no one left could have it out for an entire page like he and I could.

We just haven't had the opportunity yet, Nich.

Alpha Werewolf
07-17-2010, 01:48 PM
That's what MAKES it epic! Seriously, what is your idea of an awesome Mafia game? One where everyone uses their powers, says "I vote for X," and waits for the day to end?

One where people don't reiterate their points in an endless loop of repeating arguements until the day ends. This current game feel like that half the time.

dwolfe
07-18-2010, 06:46 AM
I think I remember a time when we weren't playing M4UD. Back when the world was young, and we had hope of a brighter, PRCY-free future. Back when we were carefree and excited to be alive.

Now I just hope I live long enough to see it end.

Merus
07-18-2010, 10:03 AM
Just saying, if you want M4UD to end, you could always convince the PRCYs to surrender.

I mean, it won't make much difference because it ends today anyway, but there's always that option there.

McClain
07-19-2010, 08:41 AM
Ah, sweet release of death.

I find it fitting that I came to an end on Page 42.

Adam
07-19-2010, 09:38 AM
The dead outnumber the living at this point.

And when there is no more room in hell...

Alpha Werewolf
07-19-2010, 11:42 AM
And when there is no more room in hell...

We dine on earth?

shivam
07-19-2010, 11:47 AM
man, uppers, you're making me proud here.
/wipes away a single, manly tear