PDA

View Full Version : Mafia: The forum game


Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 [25] 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36

Solitayre
06-05-2012, 02:28 PM
I've had long debates with people over at RMN over the viability of "random chance" as a game mechanic. In general, I'm of the opinion that it's a pretty sucky one. Whenever I play a game where random chance features prominently as a decider of whether I will succeed or fail, I tend to not like the game.

I do not like a game where a player can develop a strategy and make all the "right" decisions but still fail anyway due to a roll of the dice. If a player makes a winning move and the dice say he failed, it's not the player's fault he lost.

breakman
06-05-2012, 02:41 PM
Fair enough. How about if...hmm...certain Virus Level amounts guarantee negative effects (kill failure, killing a townie other than the one you selected, killing a member of your team), but Zero doesn't know what percentage he has?

I dunno. I definitely think Zero should have a nightkill, but it also should have some kind of penalty or limitation associated with it.

Egarwaen
06-05-2012, 02:42 PM
I do not like a game where a player can develop a strategy and make all the "right" decisions but still fail anyway due to a roll of the dice. If a player makes a winning move and the dice say he failed, it's not the player's fault he lost.

I'm with Solitayre on this, at least for mafia. And in this case, there's no reason to use a random power anyway. You could Give them a clearly-defined "virus level" limit, with a defined bad effect for exceeding it, and have each kill add a random amount to the virus level. This makes the randomness an element the player should plan around, but also allows them to push their luck.

Mogri
06-05-2012, 02:49 PM
I dunno. I definitely think Zero should have a nightkill, but it also should have some kind of penalty or limitation associated with it.

He can only shoot while he's on the ground.

Karzac
06-05-2012, 02:57 PM
Controlled randomness is awesome in a game that you plan on playing many times. For a mafia ruleset, which will probably only get played once, it doesn't really work.

Solitayre
06-05-2012, 04:09 PM
I'm not really sure what the solution is. I like the idea that there might be some kind of repercussions if Zero kills too many times, but I'm not sure what the solution would be.

Egarwaen's idea isn't a bad one.

Brickroad
06-06-2012, 06:15 AM
Wasn't the Raven/Trihan lynch determined with a coin toss?

Destil
06-06-2012, 06:19 AM
There's a reason in M5 I didn't use coin tosses to determine ties.

spineshark
06-06-2012, 06:26 AM
Wasn't the Raven/Trihan lynch determined with a coin toss?
Yes, as was the ending of M4U. I died a little inside, because my plans to fuck up the rest of the game were SO GOOD. I was going to randomly choose the next Thing, tell everyone they had no chance of guessing who it was, vote for myself right away and spend the rest of my life trying to piss everyone off.

Solitayre
06-06-2012, 08:50 AM
Wasn't the Raven/Trihan lynch determined with a coin toss?

Yes, and I didn't like having to do it that way.

Is there another way to break ties?

McClain
06-06-2012, 08:54 AM
Yes, and I didn't like having to do it that way.

Is there another way to break ties?

In the past there was the "first person who got a vote" method, but I'm not really a fan of that as there is often more reason to lynch a person at the end of the day.

I kind of like the idea of a town role that is a passive tie-breaker. Maybe that role is randomly assigned if the person dies, so it's always in play. Call it the mayor or the Vice President (they break tie votes, you see).

Torgo
06-06-2012, 10:41 AM
I dunno. Coin tosses for a tied vote don't really bother me. It's the collective fault of everyone involved for letting the day end like that. In the case of Raven/Trihan we made our soup, so come what may, we had to eat it. A coin toss lynch is always a completely avoidable thing.

Coin tosses for abilities are different story though.

Says the guy who just submitted the zany ruleset with several such abilities.

McClain
06-06-2012, 11:23 AM
For abilities, I don't mind a degree of randomness so long as it's something that is preferably set before the game starts. Like, maybe in the pitch an ability can work 1-3 times, and that's rolled as they are handed out. Like what happens a lot with mafia hack. What I don't like is the idea of "hey, you can try to kill this guy, and then I'll roll the dice to see if it works."

I also don't hate the idea of some hidden components that are already set. Like, if the player doesn't know up front how many charges of an ability they have, but the GM has it predetermined at the start. I know it's splitting hairs, but it feels more fair to me somehow.

Destil
06-06-2012, 11:55 AM
In the past there was the "first person who got a vote" method, but I'm not really a fan of that as there is often more reason to lynch a person at the end of the day.

Which is the entire point. A rule that encourages getting down votes early is good for the game, because voting early is good for the game (at least for the town). The flip side to that is that mafia, having perfect information, will do better with less randomness in general.
the flip flip side is there's a way to abuse the rule that no one ever attempted...

We also had the Friendship is Murder rule where the player with the most votes from powered town players dies on a tie.

McClain
06-06-2012, 12:10 PM
I seem to remember there being some talk that that last rule helped to narrow down power roles.

Really, I'm fine with a coin toss.

Another random rules idea I had in the last game: People always debate a "no lynch" day, but the argument always is that it only takes one person to fuck it up. Would there be any benifit to having a rule that you can "vote" for no lynch, it would simply take a majority (rather than everyone) to make it happen?

I would still be a very rare thing, if it happened at all, but I'm thinking there might come a time where a no lynch is a good option. Say, a bad lynch would end the game but a scanner is still around. And this way one person can scare everyone off of it.

Mogri
06-06-2012, 12:15 PM
Samurai Mafia could've easily ruled that the wagon with the Lord or highest-ordered samurai gets the tie. I don't remember, but I'd guess that would still have resulted in a Raven lynch.

In non-TT rulesets, lynches only occur on a majority vote, so it's not an issue. Those rules usually result in a much longer game, since majority votes tend to require more time, but if no lynch occurs by deadline, then no lynch occurs at all, which is a strong incentive for town.

ais523
06-06-2012, 01:27 PM
Pretty much every ruleset I've seen outside TT allows for votes to not lynch. (And it also always wins ties, incidentally, although that's mostly due to different deadline rules.)

I'm sort-of a fan of the "first vote that's still on the player" tiebreak rule, because it's unambiguous and everyone can see how the ties are going to be resolved in advance.

Mogri
06-06-2012, 02:15 PM
Under majority-lynch rules, no vote is effectively a no-lynch vote anyway, except that no-lynch votes can end the day early if they get a majority. This usually doesn't happen outside of fast-paced IRC games.

Egarwaen
06-06-2012, 03:08 PM
Another random rules idea I had in the last game: People always debate a "no lynch" day, but the argument always is that it only takes one person to fuck it up. Would there be any benifit to having a rule that you can "vote" for no lynch, it would simply take a majority (rather than everyone) to make it happen?

I'm not a fan, but I don't like mechanics that encourage inaction.

Destil
06-06-2012, 03:56 PM
I'm not a fan, but I don't like mechanics that encourage inaction.

Allow, not encourage. No lynch is almost always sub-optional for the town. I'd be willing to bring that option back (we had it for a few games early on) at this point.

McClain
06-06-2012, 04:07 PM
I was thinking of it being viable in very, very few circumstances. Like something like SMT mafia where the two mafia's had different kill mechanics and we knew one was wiped out, or in a situation where we are down to four players and one of them is the scanner. I don't think it would happen any more often than it is seriously discussed now, but I think there are times where it might be the best move, especially in more complicated rule sets, and it might be nice to have a rule where it takes more than one player to foil it.

spineshark
06-06-2012, 04:08 PM
My problem with it is that even in the cases where it's not just harmful for the town, it encourages lazy play, waiting for power roles to save the day.

Torgo
06-06-2012, 08:26 PM
Samurai Mafia could've easily ruled that the wagon with the Lord or highest-ordered samurai gets the tie. I don't remember, but I'd guess that would still have resulted in a Raven lynch.
It also would've significantly narrowed down the Lord candidates for the Ninja. Not that it mattered in that particular case since we scanned Umby that night anyway, but I can't advocate a tie-breaker power in any game for that reason.

We also had the Friendship is Murder rule where the player with the most votes from powered town players dies on a tie.

I seem to remember there being some talk that that last rule helped to narrow down power roles.
Three-quarters of that was probably me. I was grinding that axe practically every day. Again, not that it ultimately ended up matter in that particular case since they had four of us dead or in the open by day three.

Brickroad
06-06-2012, 08:34 PM
In my opinion, a good balance is to simply rule the tie-breaker in a way that benefits the town, but gives information to the mafia. "Ties are broken in favor of the Lord" is a good one. It ensures that the Lord's side of a vote is given more weight, but it narrows the mafia's search pool some.

As long as the rule is fair and the risks/rewards involved are clear, the mechanic balances itself. It's not like ties are unavoidable, after all; a severe enough drawback would offer an undecided town extra incentive to make up their minds.

breakman
06-06-2012, 08:38 PM
New game idea: everything that happens has a coin flip to determine success/failure. Including individual votes.

Destil
06-06-2012, 08:39 PM
New game idea: everything that happens has a coin flip to determine success/failure. Including individual votes.

That's a terrible *flip* tails

[post failed]

breakman
06-06-2012, 09:54 PM
Well of course going that far isn't feasible. But it could have a coin flip for each mafia member to access (or not) the nightchat each night.

On that note, back to Mafia Man X: What about if, each night, Zero had to choose between performing a nightkill and joining the nightchat?

Torgo
06-06-2012, 11:20 PM
So long as Zero knows who not to kill, taking the nightkill will be the optimal choice everytime except maybe the first night so he can devise a code with x an cain to communicate to him who precisely to go after.

Umby
06-13-2012, 10:19 AM
May I have an invite to the Champagne Room?

Adam
06-13-2012, 11:55 AM
Fine. I'll keep my hands to myself in the Champagne Room.

spineshark
06-15-2012, 04:50 PM
Aaaaaand I do in fact need a replacement if possible. Please send a message to myself or Destil within 24 hours.

Karzac
06-18-2012, 10:42 PM
Fuck, Mazo's playing in this game? I regret not paying attention to it.

Mogri
06-28-2012, 07:46 PM
Is Champagne Room possible now that I'm dead?

gahitsu
06-28-2012, 08:43 PM
Is Champagne Room possible now that I'm dead?

You're a powered role, you could possibly get rezzed.

Destil
06-28-2012, 09:11 PM
* You may not talk about this game out-of-thread, period, unless you are specifically told you can. No pithy remarks in the general mafia thread, no aim or irc or anything else.
Let's take the side-talk to PMs, people.

gahitsu
06-28-2012, 09:32 PM
Let's take the side-talk to PMs, people.

Isn't that expressly violating the thing you JUST quoted? All I did was paraphrase something spineshark wrote in the first post of the thread.

spineshark
06-28-2012, 09:37 PM
Yes, now I need to modkill Destil. What a shame, he was doing so well.

gahitsu
06-28-2012, 09:37 PM
Yes, now I need to modkill Destil. What a shame, he was doing so well.

rip destil

Destil
06-28-2012, 10:37 PM
You're both forgetting the carnal rule in spineshark's games:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/sirmaur/NoFunAllowed.jpg

Karzac
06-28-2012, 10:40 PM
I think you mean "cardinal".

gahitsu
06-28-2012, 11:25 PM
I think you mean "cardinal".

I won't lie, I was laughing hysterical. Best Freudian slip ever.

ais523
06-29-2012, 09:21 AM
Hey, people, I know it's fun and all, but please try to keep even tangentially game-related discussion out of the meta thread. (Unless you're spineshark or Destil or me, in which case we're allowed to go tell you off for doing it.)

Mogri
06-29-2012, 10:26 AM
I was thinking if I kept it up, they'd modkill me permadead, and then I could get into the Champagne Room.

Then again, there's the chance they'd lock me out of the CR out of spite, so... probably not worth it. Maybe.

Mogri
07-18-2012, 10:28 AM
it is time for pitching

Election Mafia

It's a presidential election year in the USA. Let's get our ballot fingers primed! Election Mafia runs as a standard game with one twist. Players vote for two people each day: one to lynch and one to elect. The elected representative gains several powers:
- He may launch an investigation on one player to find out if that player is a conspirator or a citizen.
- He is surrounded by Secret Servicemen, rendering him immune to nightkills.
- He may veto laws that are ratified with less than a majority (see below).
- He has a very comfortable chair.

These perks vanish at the start of the next game day. Due to an unforeseen side effect of the 12th Amendment, that player may not be re-elected for a number of days equal to one-fourth of the number of living players, rounded down. (For example, George is elected on day 1. He may be re-elected on day 5 if no more than 19 players remain at the start of that day, or on day 4 if no more than 15 players remain at the start of that day, etc.) The GM will keep track of this so you don't have to!

Laws: At the start of each day after the first, a law will be proposed by the GM (for example: "The president's investigation power shall be replaced with a nightkill"). Players who have not yet been elected* may vote to ratify or reject the proposed law. A ratified law takes effect immediately, but if less than half of the players voted to ratify it, the president-elect may choose to veto it as a night action. If the law is vetoed, its effects are cancelled and the veto becomes public knowledge at the start of the next game day.

Power roles: Investigations targeting the head conspirator return a clean result, but the head conspirator may not be elected. If the head conspirator leads in votes, the runner-up will instead be elected, and this will be announced in thread. Other conspirators will have passive abilities, and citizens may have passive abilities as well. The citizenry will mostly not have power roles in the traditional sense.

Ties: In case of a tie, a vote goes to the player whose voters include the most recent president. If no former president is found amongst those voting for the tied, then the GM will count the hanging chads and provide America with the choice her people really wanted all along.

Deaths: All players will have their role revealed on death. All role reveals are guaranteed 100% accurate.

*Come on, after your illustrious run as president, you're not going back to Congress.

McClain
07-18-2012, 10:31 AM
I'm about to start a new job with completely different hours, so I'm going to be skipping at least the next game until I get up to speed. And it's entirely possible I'll have to retire if I don't think I'm going to have the free time for mafia. :(

Solitayre
07-18-2012, 11:21 AM
Too soon for another Succession game so I'm not officially pitching this, but I thought I'd show you guys the changes I've made.

http://rpgmaker.net/media/content/users/4474/locker/SamuraiJack.jpg

The Succession II

It has been nearly a century since the great battle that nearly annihilated the samurai order came to pass. In the end, the traitor was exposed and her assassins eliminated. In time, the survivors restored the order to its former glory.

But time has proven to be the enemy of the samurai. Few remain who would uphold the Code of Bushido. There are those who fear that the age of the Samurai is coming to an end. And there are forces, both man and demon, who strive for that end to come...

The Rules

This game will run according to standard mafia rules. Days are 72 Hours long. Nights are 48 hours.

You may not discuss this game with anyone outside of the thread, via PM, IM, meta thread, or any other form. During day, you may freely discuss the game in the game thread. Every day, there will be a lynch. You may vote for the player you would like to lynch with a clear, bolded accusation.

I accuse Solitayre.

You may change or retract your accusation at any time. The player with the most votes at the end of the day will be killed. If there is a tie, the Lord's vote will break the tie. Otherwise, the accusation in play the longest will break the tie.

At night, you may not post in the thread. The mafia will discuss strategy and who to kill during the night. Other players will have powers they may use at night as well.

Editing posts is forbidden.

Dead players may not post in the game thread for any reason.

The game ends when one faction has achieved their victory condition.

You may not post role PMs, direct correspondence with the GM, screenshots or URLs of chatlogs, or any physical evidence from outside this the game thread. The opening post will have a clearly labeled, verbatim copy of the town Role PM, so don't even think about it.

The Roles



Town Roles

Samurai: All vanilla townies are Samurai. They are all in line for the throne. Their position in line is randomly decided at the start of the game. The Samurai first in line for the throne becomes the Heir and may communicate with the Lord at night. One of the Samurai is The Traitor.

The Lord: The Lord is the current holder of the Throne. May investigate one player per night to learn their current place in line. He dies if he investigates a Ninja. He may communicate with the Heir at night. If a lynch vote ends in a tie, the Lord's vote will break the tie.

The Heir: The Heir is the first Samurai in line for the throne. He may communicate with his Lord at night. If the Lord dies, the Heir becomes the new Lord, and the player in line behind him becomes the new Heir.

The Scribe:The Scribe is a historian whose purpose is to catalogue the line of Succession. The Scribe learns the original place in line of any player who is killed at any time, effective the morning after the player died. This process does not detect the Traitor. If a Ninja or Oni die, he will learn that they had no place in line. The Scribe is not in line for the throne and scans will reveal as such to both Lord and Ninja. He is revealed as the Scribe to his killers.


Victory Condition: The town wins if all members of the mafia are eliminated.

If The Oni is still alive at this point, he wins instead.




Mafia Roles

The Traitor: The Traitor is identical to a Samurai, and is in line for the throne. However, he is aligned with the Mafia faction, and may communicate with them at night, and participate in selecting their nightkill and scan targets. The Traitor's place in line is randomly determined. The Traitor reads innocent if scanned by the Lord, but reads as Traitor if lynched. But beware, the Traitor cannot deceive the Oni. Anyone in the line of succession could be the Traitor save the original Lord.

Ninja: The Ninja are this game's mafia. They may communicate at night and decide who to kill. They may also choose, as a group, to investigate a player and learn their place in line each night. Ninja are not in line for the throne. The number of Ninja is unknown to the town.

Victory Condition: The Mafia wins if their numbers match or exceed the town's numbers.

If The Oni is still alive at this point, he wins instead.




Other Roles

The Oni: The Oni is a shapeshifting master of darkness. It is said that every one hundred years, the Oni rises from the dead to seek vengeance on the samurai order who once defeated him. If he survives until the end of the game, he may shed his disguise and usher forth a future where his evil is law!

The Oni has the following powers:

-The Oni begins play with one kill he may use at night.

-The Oni begins play in his default form.

-When the Oni kills a player, he has the option of assuming that player's identity or to maintain his current form. If the Oni assumes the identity of a Samurai, he will take that Samurai's place in line. He will read as such to a Lord's of Ninja's scan, and may participate in nightchats if he becomes the Lord or Heir, and gains any other associated powers.

If the Oni assumes the form of a Ninja (but not Traitor) he will kill the Lord if the Lord scans him, and he will learn any actions the mafia take at night, including the results of any scans they make.

If the Oni assumes the form of the Scribe, he gains all knowledge the Scribe possessed and acquires the Scribe's power.

The Oni loses any of these abilities if he takes a new form, and acquires the power of his new form instead.

-Each day, the Oni may make an offer to any player of his choice (besides himself) by PMing the GM with the name of a player. The chosen player will recieve the offer at the beginning of that night, and has until the next day to accept or refuse this offer. If the other player accepts this offer, they may PM the GM with the name of any player they wish to be scanned. The scan results will be learned directly by the chosen player and the Oni. A player who does not respond is assumed to reject the offer.

If a Samurai is scanned, their place in line is revealed. Ninja will be revealed as Mafia. If the Traitor is scanned by the Oni, his identity is exposed. The Oni is also revealed if he is scanned. The Scribe's identity will also be revealed.

For each player that accepts this deal, the Oni gains one Nightkill, available to him the following night. The Oni may kill as many players per night as his nightkill limit permits, but may only assume one form per night, and must decide whose form he will take when he decides who to kill. Once chosen, the decision is binding.

-The Oni may also choose to revert to his default form at night.

In his original form, the Oni reads as not having a place in line to a Lord or Ninja scan, but is immune to all nightkills. While in mortal form, the Oni can be slain like any human. The Oni is never immune to lynches.

-The Oni is always revealed as such to his killers, regardless of what form he takes.

-The Oni counts as either town or mafia for purposes of determining victory conditions, whichever comes first.

-The Oni may have a limited ability to present certain specific offers to other players at specific times.

Victory Condition: The Oni wins if he is still alive when another faction achieves their win conditions. If the Oni wins, all other factions lose.

=================================================

Major changes:

-The Traitor role no longer reads innocent if lynched.

-The Lord's vote now breaks ties.

-The town now have a Seer style role who gains knowledge of the roles of killed players.

-Nightchats are less secure as there may be multiple intruders in the succession chain.

-The Oni is much more powerful now and can influence the game in much more interesting ways. He is no longer vulnerable to scans, but leaves a different sort of trail of clues due to his effects on the gamestate.

Egarwaen
07-18-2012, 12:21 PM
I'm pitching!

Vampire: the Mafiaquiem

The game is composed of three factions - Kindred, VII, and Hunters. There are two phases - night and day. During the night, the Court deliberates on a character to lynch. Each character has one vote, plurality lynches. Days never end early.

The Kindred
This game's town faction. They win when all VII and Hunters are eliminated. The following roles will be assigned among the Kindred:

The Prince - 1 - his vote counts double and he must be lynched by a majority rather than simply a plurality. He and the Seneschal may communicate in private during the night.

The Seneschal - 1 - may communicate in private with the Prince. Becomes the Prince if the Prince dies.

The Harpy - 1 - Master of gossip. At the start of the night, the Harpy may pick another character to gossip about. At the end of the night, the accumulated gossip allows him to learn a target's identity.

Master of Elysium - 0-1 - May hole up in an Elysium during the day. This renders him immune to day-kills, but it takes a day to recharge after stopping a kill. He may invite another player to join him; if he does so, both players become immune. If he invites a Hunter or VII to join him, they may opt to kill him independent of their team’s kill.

Sheriff - 0-1 - May pick a single player to kill at the end of the night. That player dies on the way to Gather the next day. This power takes a day to recharge after being used.

Hound - 1, if a Sheriff, otherwise 0 - May communicate in private with the Sheriff during the night. Becomes the Sheriff if the Sheriff dies.

VII
One of the game's Mafia factions. Wins when all Hunters are dead and they outnumber the Kindred. They may chat during the night but are inactive during the day. May pick a single player to kill at the end of the night; that player dies on the way to Gather the next night. No other powers.

Hunters
One of the game's Mafia factions. Wins when all VII are dead and they outnumber the Kindred. They may chat in private during the day, and may pick a single player to kill before nightfall. No other powers.

I don't know whether or not to seriously pitch it, or even if it's a good idea, so I figured I'd post it and see what people thought. The idea is to have a two-mafia-faction game that plays with private chats. One Mafia faction gets to chat while debate is going on, the other doesn't. And the Town's got one or two during-debate chats too, to further mix things up.

WormRider
07-18-2012, 02:07 PM
Ooh ooh, I should pitch something, too. I haven't decided which one yet, but here they are again:

Beta Lyrae b (http://www.talking-time.net/showthread.php?p=1251027#post1251027)

P4 Mafia (http://www.talking-time.net/showthread.php?p=1213584#post1213584)

They are kind of experimental, so may not be balanced, but I would love to see them run to see how it turns out. Beta Lyrae b can probably run as a small, side game. I'd love any criticism and feedback.

Dizzy
07-18-2012, 04:45 PM
So, guys.

Even though I didn't have time to play Mafia 20, I managed to find time to play Werewolves over at Brontoforumus. It was manageable because I had no intention of winning and decided to subvert my win condition for shits and giggles.

After making a false role claim (how is rare is that, huh?) and getting everyone to kill me (but luckily getting everyone to kill a bad guy) I am now banned from their games for "unsportsmanlike conduct."

Now, I really don't care to be recruited again just to fill up their increasingly low player roster like the previous times -- but I regret not pushing Talking Time to ban Guild from our games, considering his horse shit. Tit for tat, you know? We were waaay to nice to him.

Here's what I propose: ban all Brontoforumites from our beloved Mafia games and raid their board with an unyielding stream of shit posts and horrendous .jpg/.gif files. Just 4chan the place up.

We'll do this Saturday. I'll be out of town to watch The Dark Knight Rises and hit Chuck-E-Cheese for pizza and games before ending the night at a local dive. While I'm out and about, you guys do what I just said.

On Sunday, I want to wake up from my hangover and visit the smoking ruins of Brontos.

dtsund
07-18-2012, 05:56 PM
The primary difference between TT and the Brontoforums in this case, Dizzy, is that here we don't have two people who can uni... uh, bilaterally decide to ban you for misconduct. If you'd done what you did in a TT game, we'd probably at least be discussing the matter, though.

Mogri
07-18-2012, 06:16 PM
It was discussed after Org II. I think it didn't matter so much in that game because he wasn't screwing over the whole game in the process.

Destil
07-18-2012, 09:42 PM
I've been considering shortening the time between bonus scans in The Thing II to 24 hours, what would people think of this? What if I add 24 hours to any scan-period containing a weekend day (Saturday or Sunday)? Is one day too short once you've had two for discussion? Are there players who simply can't make it to the forum to read/post every day, and is that less of an issue if weekends aren't included? Would it just be too confusing not knowing when the next phase ends?

I'm also tweaking the rules slightly and clarifying a few things. Heh.

Does anyone have any thoughts on Solitayre's concern for the more individual win condition, in particular fixes? I haven't been able to come up with anything that doesn't break the game (the 'best' one I came up with lead to me solving the game in, no lie, two posts) but I think it's basically a non-issue (there's always some player who's bad luck can screw them over).

Finally, does anyone have any particularly strong opinions for/against staring the game in Night 0, allowing the alpha thing to choose one partner before the game starts? The numbers and powers will be finessed to be fair (shorten the life spans of some/all mutations a bit for example). I'm pretty indifferent to the whole thing, myself, but I was considering it.

gahitsu
07-18-2012, 09:46 PM
The primary difference between TT and the Brontoforums in this case, Dizzy, is that here we don't have two people who can uni... uh, bilaterally decide to ban you for misconduct. If you'd done what you did in a TT game, we'd probably at least be discussing the matter, though.

Yeah, pretty sure if we had moderation on TT and you'd done that here, there would be talking about it at the least.

Destil
07-18-2012, 10:58 PM
Too soon for another Succession game so I'm not officially pitching this, but I thought I'd show you guys the changes I've made.

...

-The Oni counts as either town or mafia for purposes of determining victory conditions, whichever comes first.Lose this. Instead:

-The Oni counts as either town or mafia while in his default form, whichever comes first. When he assumes the form of a member of either team he counts as that team for for purposes of determining victory conditions.

Also, just to be clear, the Oni decides who's form he takes before he gets the kill results, at the same time he declares the kills, correct? What's the timing on returning to his default form?

Otherwise perfect.

Solitayre
07-19-2012, 12:12 AM
Lose this. Instead:

-The Oni counts as either town or mafia while in his default form, whichever comes first. When he assumes the form of a member of either team he counts as that team for for purposes of determining victory conditions.

Hmmm. On one hand, I like the way you think. On the other, it seems counter-intuitive to kill someone if you want to improve the chances of their team winning.


Also, just to be clear, the Oni decides who's form he takes before he gets the kill results, at the same time he declares the kills, correct?

Yes, he doesn't know what form he'll have until he does the killing, unless of course he has scan intel! The ruleset is designed so the Oni has limited ability to kill but lots of ways to gain information.


What's the timing on returning to his default form?


Order of operations is weird in the Succession. I think I'd rule that any Oni transformation is simultaneous with the night kill, with the form he's changing into taking priority. So, if he were targeted on a night when he changes to his normal form, he'd survive, but if he were normal and shifted into someone else, he'd die.

This puts the basic order of operations as:

Day Start> Voting/Oni picks target> lynch> Day End> Night Start> Oni offer made> Night chats> Nightkills/Oni Transformations> Scans/Scribe intel> Day start


I'd welcome input on this.

Destil
07-19-2012, 12:26 AM
Hmmm. On one hand, I like the way you think. On the other, it seems counter-intuitive to kill someone if you want to improve the chances of their team winning.That's an intentional part of it. The balance is having a better hiding place vs. ending the game faster, I think having no single optimal choice would also increase the strategic depth of the role (which, admittedly, isn't really needed since it has a lot going on already).

Order of operations is weird in the Succession. I think I'd rule that any Oni transformation is simultaneous with the night kill, with the form he's changing into taking priority. So, if he were targeted on a night when he changes to his normal form, he'd survive, but if he were normal and shifted into someone else, he'd die.

This puts the basic order of operations as:

Day Start> Voting/Oni picks target> lynch> Day End> Night Start> Oni offer made> Night chats> Oni Transformations > Nightkills > Scans/Scribe intel> Day startChange it to that and you don't need a specific priority for effects. When do you check for victory conditions triggering? Before Day Start? The rest of that looks good (transform should happen before scans, so you're not getting info that's already out of date and you can react to someone you suspect may scan you).

Solitayre
07-19-2012, 07:09 AM
Yeah that makes the most sense probably. And yeah, checking win conditions happens immediately before day/night begins.

Also, I think I need to explicitly forbid the Oni from killing himself...

Egarwaen
07-19-2012, 10:31 AM
Yeah that makes the most sense probably. And yeah, checking win conditions happens immediately before day/night begins.

Also, I think I need to explicitly forbid the Oni from killing himself...

Forbid the ninja from night-killing one of their own number while you're at it.

Egarwaen
07-19-2012, 11:14 AM
The game ends when one faction has achieved their victory condition.

In fact, I'd add a general rule here that the GM will not permit players to subvert their own victory conditions. This includes the Oni killing themselves and the Ninja killing one of their number or the Traitor. I'd also add a general rule as follows:

- Players learn the identity, but not place in line, of players they kill. The sole exception to this is that the Traitor is reported as a Samurai if Nightkilled by the Oni. The Lord and Heir read as Samurai under these conditions; "Lord" and "Heir" are their place in line, not their identity.

With the relatively high number of information-scrambling mechanics, I think this is essential to preventing the Town from disappearing up its own ass and ensuring that the Ninja and Oni know what they can know.

The opening post will have a clearly labeled, verbatim copy of the town Role PM, so don't even think about it.

Oh good! I think this should become standard practice in any game that doesn't want PM-based metagame play. (Which I still think is valid and clever but should be designed-in rather than accidentally enabled)

The Scribe learns the original place in line of any player who is killed at any time, effective the morning after the player died. This process does not detect the Traitor.

A Traitor night-killed by the Oni reads as a Samurai with a place in line to the Scribe, right?

Anyone in the line of succession could be the Traitor save the original Lord.

I don't know if I like this change or not. Do the Samurai really have any way to recover from the initial Heir being the Traitor, other than sheer luck with the Oni? It might be best to explicitly exclude the original Heir from the Traitor pool.

If he survives until the end of the game, he may shed his disguise and usher forth a future where his evil is law!

This still cracks me up. :D

-The Oni begins play with one kill he may use at night.

Good change.

-When the Oni kills a player, he has the option of assuming that player's identity or to maintain his current form. If the Oni assumes the identity of a Samurai, he will take that Samurai's place in line. He will read as such to a Lord's of Ninja's scan, and may participate in nightchats if he becomes the Lord or Heir, and gains any other associated powers.

I would add "or return to his default form" to this section, to make it clear that the Oni can choose to kill and reset his form. I'd also keep the separate entry below, to make it clear that the Oni can reset his form without killing.

I like the idea that the Oni can become the Heir or Lord. It adds an interesting dimension to the Secret Boss role and the game. As one might guess from my own submission, I'm quite interested in the potential of mechanics that muck with player assumptions about private chats; this seems like a good one. I'd explicitly state that if a Lord or Heir Oni changes form, he ceases being Lord or Heir and the Succession proceeds as normal. (Or that he retains the titles until killed; whichever you prefer)

If the Oni assumes the form of a Ninja (but not Traitor) he will kill the Lord if the Lord scans him, and he will learn any actions the mafia take at night, including the results of any scans they make.

What does the Oni read as to the Ninjas' scan in this form?

If a Samurai is scanned, their place in line is revealed. Ninja will be revealed as Mafia. If the Traitor is scanned by the Oni, his identity is exposed. The Oni is also revealed if he is scanned. The Scribe's identity will also be revealed.

I'm torn. Part of me wants the Oni's scan to reveal only that the Scribe and Oni have no place in line, to maintain the ambiguity between the Scribe and the Oni. But I also kind of like that the Oni's scan can distinguish them, as it encourages deal-making - it's the only way for the Town to distinguish the Scribe/Oni, as well as the only way to detect the Traitor.

For each player that accepts this deal, the Oni gains one Nightkill, available to him the following night.

I would suggest a clearer wording here, to attempt to forestall the usual debates about how, exactly, the Oni works:

"When a player accepts this deal, the Oni's stock of available Nightkills increases by one at the start of the next day. There is no limit to the Oni's stock of nightkills, and he may use as many as he wants..."

-The Oni is always revealed as such to his killers, regardless of what form he takes.

-The Oni may have a limited ability to present certain specific offers to other players at specific times.

Oh, I like this. Clever!

Egarwaen
07-19-2012, 11:28 AM
Does anyone have any thoughts on Solitayre's concern for the more individual win condition, in particular fixes?

I'd appreciate a complete repost of where your rules are at now. And if I recall it correctly, I agree with Solitayre's concern. A game where your win condition can reverse partway through is inherently self-contradictory; it encourages bad play. So... Here's an attempt at a solution:

Divide the game into three populations, not two - scientists, civilians, and things.

Things are as written. However, rather than submitting one conversion target, the Things must submit a list of conversion targets, equal in length to (some proportion of the remaining player-base). The GM will select a random member of this list for conversion. Alternatively, they submit one and it is simply wasted if they attempt to convert a Scientist.

Scientists are immune to conversion and win only if the Things are eliminated. The number of scientists is fixed as a proportion of the number of remaining humans. If they fall below this proportion, a random Civilian is converted to maintain their numbers.

Players who remain Civilians at the end of the game win if either team wins. They're the horror movie extras; sure, they might get transformed into hideous alien abominations, but they're corporate wage slaves on a miserable off-world colony. They're not invested enough in humanity to really care either way.

This, I think, prevents the subversion-of-win-condition problem. Civilians need to play well, in case they get converted to a Scientist, but have to balance that with the potential of being converted into a Thing. I don't think it's perfect, but it's a direction?

Finally, does anyone have any particularly strong opinions for/against staring the game in Night 0, allowing the alpha thing to choose one partner before the game starts? The numbers and powers will be finessed to be fair (shorten the life spans of some/all mutations a bit for example). I'm pretty indifferent to the whole thing, myself, but I was considering it.

Seems reasonable to me; while I've not rolled one yet, I'd think being Mafia would be less fun without a buddy.

Brickroad
07-19-2012, 12:24 PM
I'm about to start a new job with completely different hours, so I'm going to be skipping at least the next game until I get up to speed. And it's entirely possible I'll have to retire if I don't think I'm going to have the free time for mafia. :(

How about we put you on the player list every game anyway and just have a standing rule that you die right away?

Solitayre
07-19-2012, 12:29 PM
In fact, I'd add a general rule here that the GM will not permit players to subvert their own victory conditions. This includes the Oni killing themselves and the Ninja killing one of their number or the Traitor.

I don't think I want to do this. In Problem Sleuth Mafia, the mafia killed Nich as part of a deliberate (and effective!) strategy. I don't want to forbid them from doing this if they think it can somehow help them.

Eddie killed himself basically to troll the gamestate, which I don't wish to allow.

Maybe I'd forbid someone with a nightkill power from killing himself if he's the only member of his faction remaining.


- Players learn the identity, but not place in line, of players they kill. The sole exception to this is that the Traitor is reported as a Samurai if Nightkilled by the Oni. The Lord and Heir read as Samurai under these conditions; "Lord" and "Heir" are their place in line, not their identity.

With the relatively high number of information-scrambling mechanics, I think this is essential to preventing the Town from disappearing up its own ass and ensuring that the Ninja and Oni know what they can know.

I'm not sure I understand. The ninja learn the ID of anyone they kill already. The Oni would too.

If you mean players learning who was killed at night, this is what the Scribe is for, isn't it?



Oh good! I think this should become standard practice in any game that doesn't want PM-based metagame play. (Which I still think is valid and clever but should be designed-in rather than accidentally enabled)

Yes, I like playing with PMs as much as the next guy but if a GM wants to explicitly forbid it I think this is the way to do it.



A Traitor night-killed by the Oni reads as a Samurai with a place in line to the Scribe, right?

Yes.


I don't know if I like this change or not. Do the Samurai really have any way to recover from the initial Heir being the Traitor, other than sheer luck with the Oni? It might be best to explicitly exclude the original Heir from the Traitor pool.

Technically this was never a rule in the original Succession. You guys assumed it was!



What does the Oni read as to the Ninjas' scan in this form?

That's a good question! I imagine he'd appear as not having a place in line. Any thoughts on this?


As for changing the rules of the Thing, I don't think there's really a good way to do it. It is what it is and any attempts to change win conditions changes the game. I'd be willing to roll with this if we ever play it and just play to the best of my ability for whichever side I'm on, but I don't think I'd ever vote for it.

Also I guess we kind of need to have a moratorium on using tags. I think the best plan is to just forbid any player from adding tags while the game is active. Thoughts?

Destil
07-19-2012, 12:41 PM
Also I guess we kind of need to have a moratorium on using tags. I think the best plan is to just forbid any player from adding tags while the game is active. Thoughts?

Yes, absolutely. One of my rules is that only the GM may tag the thread before the game is over.

I'll have what I've put together sometime tonight I hope, depending on work, Egarwaen. I agree with Sol on the win condition, it is what it is and I'm not inclined to add significant complexity to fix it (The Thing is fairly simple and even the mutations are intended to not add tooo much overhead). If there's a simple solution I'd be happy to include it.

Egarwaen
07-19-2012, 01:15 PM
I'm not sure I understand. The ninja learn the ID of anyone they kill already. The Oni would too.

If you mean players learning who was killed at night, this is what the Scribe is for, isn't it?

I'm saying be explicit and up-front about the rules regarding who gets what information when someone dies. It's distributed throughout the rest of the rules, but I think it's both important and complicated enough to be worth summarizing it.

Technically this was never a rule in the original Succession. You guys assumed it was!

Right, and I'm saying I think that presumption was based on a sound analysis, that an initial Traitor Heir completely screws over the Samurai.

That's a good question! I imagine he'd appear as not having a place in line. Any thoughts on this?

Hm. So that result appears to make becoming a Ninja extremely undesirable. You have all the disadvantages of your normal form's scan vulnerability without the nightkill protection. On the other hand, it does give you the information you need to know when it's time to change back to normal - specifically, when the Ninja scanned you last night.

Also I guess we kind of need to have a moratorium on using tags. I think the best plan is to just forbid any player from adding tags while the game is active. Thoughts?

I think the best plan is to ask that no-one add tags while the game is active.

Brickroad
07-19-2012, 01:38 PM
I think the best plan is to ask that no-one add tags while the game is active.

There is no way to enforce this.

Solitayre
07-19-2012, 01:41 PM
Well, if necessary we can find out who added a tag, but there's no way to punish someone from outside the game.

I do think asking players not to post anything IS enforceable.

Dizzy
07-19-2012, 01:44 PM
If the mods can create a special user account for our special special games I'm sure they can make sure nobody other than the GM makes a tag until the game is finished.

I do think asking players not to post anything IS enforceable.

Along with no editing!

Destil
07-19-2012, 02:35 PM
There is no way to enforce this.



Non-players who have asked for access to the champange room who post in this thread will be reprimanded in the next game I play/run where I have the power to do so (not restricted to forum mafia). As will non-players who tag the thread before the game is over without express permission from the GM.

McClain
07-19-2012, 10:16 PM
RE: Tags: Is there a meatspace subforums mod? If not, do we want to request one? I'm sure Matchstick doesn't want to spend a bunch of time monitoring these games, but maybe someone who is active in mafia can be trusted to keep an eye on that kind of stuff.

I also think that a Red Card ban is appropriate for tag shenanigans.

How about we put you on the player list every game anyway and just have a standing rule that you die right away?

If you really love me you'll kill me in the opening flavor from now on.

dtsund
07-19-2012, 10:44 PM
We could just inquire as to how hard it would be to allow threads to be untaggable.

Destil
07-19-2012, 10:59 PM
We could just inquire as to how hard it would be to allow threads to be untaggable.

Think I already asked and the answer was no?

Also, I'm pretty sure Matchstick lurks the hell out of mafia, or at least he did back the last time I ran a game.

Egarwaen
07-20-2012, 10:31 AM
If you really love me you'll kill me in the opening flavor from now on.

I'm so in on this.

ais523
07-20-2012, 11:26 AM
I don't think I want to do this. In Problem Sleuth Mafia, the mafia killed Nich as part of a deliberate (and effective!) strategy. I don't want to forbid them from doing this if they think it can somehow help them.

Eddie killed himself basically to troll the gamestate, which I don't wish to allow.

Maybe I'd forbid someone with a nightkill power from killing himself if he's the only member of his faction remaining.

I think the best rule is that no player is allowed to perform an action that entirely eliminates their own faction's chance of winning, regardless of what it is. I don't think Nich's suicide was a good move, but I don't think it was so bad it should be disallowed altogether, and I know many people think that Nich's play was entirely the right one.

If you're suiciding as the last member of a team, though, you're sabotaging your team's chance of winning, so that's a no-go. Unless your team already had no chance of winning (in the mathematical rather than figurative sense), in which case feel free to go with it if it makes you feel better.

shivam
07-20-2012, 01:32 PM
incidentally, how about a round of applause for making it 20 games through mafia, and keeping it going for two and a half years?

Kinda makes me want to run a game again. I had a lot of fun doing the writeups.

Egarwaen
07-20-2012, 01:47 PM
incidentally, how about a round of applause for making it 20 games through mafia, and keeping it going for two and a half years?

Kinda makes me want to run a game again. I had a lot of fun doing the writeups.

Pitch something for the next round. I don't think we've got much in the running thus far... PonyMafia II, Thing II... Any others?

dtsund
07-20-2012, 02:49 PM
I'll pitch MafiaHack III (http://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1317087&postcount=6302) as well.

Mogri
07-20-2012, 03:17 PM
Pitch something for the next round. I don't think we've got much in the running thus far... PonyMafia II, Thing II... Any others?

http://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1349960&postcount=6402

Destil
07-20-2012, 04:13 PM
Kinda makes me want to run a game again. I had a lot of fun doing the writeups.

I'd actually be really open to someone helping me with flavor text if The Thing II wins (which I should hopefully post the revised pitch for this weekend, work's been crazy).

Torgo
07-22-2012, 01:18 AM
So, voting soon then? For official pitches I'm seeing:

Mogri's Election Mafia
Egar's Vampire: the Mafiaquiem
dtsund's MafiaHack III
Wormrider's Undecided Pitch?

Destil mentioned The Thing II, but I'm not sure if he officially pitched it. Egar mentioned Ponies II, but as far as I can tell neither Brick or poet have pitched it for this time around?

(And for the record, I would totally play The Succession II next game.)

For myself, I had a bunch of ideas to refine Tactics Mafia down to something playable, but it's been like a month and I didn't write any of them down, so... another time. Maybe. Besides, I noticed people weren't too stoked about the phase ending time for Shmup Mafia. I would be even worse (probably 11pm or midnight HST, so early am hours for continental U.S.), so I'm not terribly inclined to pitch anything, if not for my sake than for everyone else's.

Brickroad
07-22-2012, 06:07 AM
I'm up for co-running ponies, providing Nich and/or poetfox is still interested.

I'm only up for playing if the game isn't SUPERCRAZYRULES though. Even MafiaHack III might be too much for my fragile constitution these days.

Yimothy
07-22-2012, 06:25 AM
Not that I think it'll win, but I'll put Assassination Mafia (http://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1272363&postcount=6076) back up for this round.

Raven
07-22-2012, 06:31 AM
What no Watership Mafia? :(

Egarwaen
07-22-2012, 12:29 PM
Egar's Vampire: the Mafiaquiem


Posted for comment and discussion, not play.

Solitayre
07-22-2012, 01:35 PM
I'm only up for playing if the game isn't SUPERCRAZYRULES though. Even MafiaHack III might be too much for my fragile constitution these days.

If I was in the mood to GM I'd pitch Problem Sleuth Mafia II: This Time, The Shit Is Even Realer.

breakman
07-22-2012, 02:10 PM
I intended to pitch Mega Man X Mafia this time, but I'm not feeling up to it right now. Also, I haven't finished figuring out all the rules (if anyone wants to help me do that, and probably also help me run the game eventually, let me know?).

I also have some ideas in my head for a Wild ARMs themed ruleset, but that one is just a mess (partially by design).

Egarwaen
07-22-2012, 02:43 PM
I would totally play Ponies II: Sweetie Bell Is the Secret Boss.

Destil
07-22-2012, 04:10 PM
The war with the sharkiens is long over.
The war with the PRCY-7A virus has
Sorry, boss. I dropped your intro text-scroll.

Comb Stranger's
Paul le Fou's

John Carptener's
The Thing
II

Players
Each player is a member of one of two teams at any given point: Things and Crew.

Crew have no special powers. They may post in the thread during the day and vote for scans.

The Things are the Mafia of this game, they can do everything crew can do. In addition they may talk in secret during the night. Once per night they may choose one player to convert by vote, this player becomes a thing with a random mutation. Any player converted in such a way is sent a PM before the start of the next day with the names of all current living things and the mutation type (the active things do not learn this mutation type until the nightchat the following night).
Things also expire: after a certain number of days (which is not public information but is non-random and set for each thing type) the virus kills the original host and consumes the body in a truly horrific fashion, with terrible side effects. The fact that a thing has expired is public knowledge the next day, and when an alpha or omega thing expires their mutation type is also public knowledge (therefore the crew always knows how many things are 'in play' as far as victory is concerned).

Scans
Each player may vote for a target to be scanned, the vote must be in bold on its own line.
I vote to scan Destil
Votes can be retracted at any point during the day, voting for a second player automatically retracts your vote for an earlier player.
I retract my vote for Destil
I vote to scan McClain(with the earlier vote still on Destil)
In the case of a tie, the player with the earliest unretracted vote is scanned.

If the scanned player is a thing, they die and their mutation type is made public knowledge. Note that scanned things do not expire, they simply die.
If the scanned player is a member of the crew that becomes public knowledge and there are no other effects.

There are two or more scans during each day (at 48 and 96 hours). The first scan has no special effects. If a thing is scanned on the second (or later) the day is extended 48 hours and there is another scan. This process continues until a member of the crew is scanned.

Mutations
Alpha α
Lifespan - Long. Unlike other non-omega vairants, the players are told when an alpha expires.
When an alpha expires one member of the crew, at random, is converted and becomes an alpha thing. No special knowledge is given to the new alpha but the current living things are told their identity.
Special - The first infection is always an alpha, and alphas are never the result of a random mutation.

Gamma γ
Lifepan - Short
When a gamma expires the first scan of the following day kills whatever player is scanned, crew or thing. Crew killed in such a way are still revealed to be crew.

Zeta ζ
Lifespan - Medium
When an zeta expires the following day there is no first scan. This is not public knowledge, day simply ends if a crew is scanned. If a thing is scanned there are still bonus scans. If an zeta and a gamma expire at the same time the scan both kills crew members and ends the day if not used on a thing.

Omega ω
Lifespan - Long. Unlike other non-alpha vairants, the players are told when an omega expires.
Omega things that have expired still count towards the thing (but not player) victory condition.

Day And Night
The day is 96 hours long, with an additional 48 added with each bonus scan. The first scan happens after 48 hours.

Night is at most 48 hours long. Nights may be shortened if all active things agree, in 24 hour increments.

Victory
All crew members (alive and dead) win if no things remain alive after a scan. All things lose.
All things (alive and dead) win if their number is equal to or greater than the number of players at the end of a night. All current crewmembers lose.

Game Flow
Day
t+0 hours: Day starts
t+48 hours: 1st Scan, crew victory condition checked
t+96 hours: 2nd Scan, crew victory condition checked
(+bonus scans)

Night
Thing-talk, things vote for conversion
t+0 to t+48 hours: Night Ends
Things expire
Conversion
Thing victory condition check
Day starts

Floor Rules

The Thing II is a game for 13-18 players. If enugh people are interested the game will be split into two (or more!) ships.
Rules clarifications must be PMed to the GM, who then posts a clear update in the game thread and updates the OP without identifying who asked the question. Clarifications will not be provided in any other form.
No out of game communication about the game.
Each player must post in the thread at least once per phase.
Players can not post in this thread during the game.
Non-players can not have asked for access to the champange room may not post in this thread during the game.
Players may not request the reprimand of other players will be reprimand, an exception can be made for a player informing the GM of out-of-game communication.
No one may add Tags to the game thread during the game except for the GM.
Anyone breaking rules will be reprimanded. Reprimands are done at GM discretion based based on things like gamestate and the nature of the offense and and will range from (but are not limited to) a warning to replacing the player in question with a new player (the replaced player loses, regardless of the game's outcome) to modkill of the offending player to declaring one team or another to simply have won. Effort will be made to prevent either team from being able to use this to their advantage. Non-players who break the rules will be reprimanded in the next game I play/run where I have the power to do so (not restricted to forum mafia).
Scans occur at 9PM MST (GMT-7). In the event that the game is split across ships each ship will be on a half-hour offset (so the second ship would be at 9:30PM, the third at 10PM et cetera).


Revisions made since the last time I posted this: Fewer and simpler thing mutations (see if you can spot the inspiration), cleared up wording in a lot of places.

poetfox
07-22-2012, 04:56 PM
If there's demand for Watership, I'll totally pitch it. If Brick and Nich want to do a Ponies II, I'd be down with that. I'd gladly help, too! If they need me.

I don't think I'm going to play next round, though. I was feeling burnt out last game, decided to play anyway, it went badly. I think more break is a good idea before I jump back in.

Eddie
07-22-2012, 05:40 PM
I thought Shoot-em-spaceship-Mafia was too complicated for my poor little brain, but look forward to either playing or help running the next game.

- Eddie

Solitayre
07-22-2012, 05:43 PM
My brother is a part of another forum. Her has informed me that they, too, are playing a mafia game where the flavor is ponies.

How did the world reach this point?

Also, their flavor is that the background ponies want their own episode, and are hunting down the Mane 6 (the mafia). That sounds kind of hilarious.

gahitsu
07-23-2012, 05:18 AM
My brother is a part of another forum. Her has informed me that they, too, are playing a mafia game where the flavor is ponies.

How did the world reach this point?

Also, their flavor is that the background ponies want their own episode, and are hunting down the Mane 6 (the mafia). That sounds kind of hilarious.

That's amazing. @.@

Also Bronto just started a Mafia-Battleship hybrid (wolfpireship). I don't give a fuck, that's amazing too.

Egarwaen
07-23-2012, 11:52 AM
So, which Ponies games are actually getting pitched?

Egarwaen
07-23-2012, 12:01 PM
This one (http://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1272665&postcount=6098), with Brick and I co-running.

Oh goodie.

Mogri
07-23-2012, 12:15 PM
I think you are reading sarcasm where it does not exist.

Egarwaen
07-23-2012, 12:34 PM
Er...? Which part of that is bad? I just volunteered to co-GM, I could just as easily not if that's a problem.

I think you are reading sarcasm where it does not exist.

You are, in fact, reading sarcasm and/or discontent where there is, in fact, gleeful delight.

Solitayre
07-23-2012, 01:40 PM
I still think truth detection is too powerful in that ruleset. It basically gives the town two scans per night.

Egarwaen
07-23-2012, 01:49 PM
I still think truth detection is too powerful in that ruleset. It basically gives the town two scans per night.

But the Mane 6 also gets two shots per night at finding one of the Avatars, and the Avatars can't communicate their findings nearly as effectively.

Brickroad
07-23-2012, 01:59 PM
I still think truth detection is too powerful in that ruleset. It basically gives the town two scans per night.

You're better at designing and balancing rulesets than I am. What do you suggest?

Solitayre
07-23-2012, 04:02 PM
But the Mane 6 also gets two shots per night at finding one of the Avatars, and the Avatars can't communicate their findings nearly as effectively.

They do? I guess that's counting their kill?

With two chances per night, they'd almost certainly have found all the Avatars by Night 5 or so. That's what happened in Ponymafia I.

Giving the town two scans just turns it into a powers game where everyone waits for powers to win the game and no one does detective work. I'm sure a sufficiently motivated town could find a way to have caught all the Manes within five days with two scans to work with.

Hell, truth detection is a better scan than the actual inspection power, because it completely ignores Rarity's ability to subvert the result.

I'm not sure what Lies should have instead though.

Solitayre
07-23-2012, 04:26 PM
Actually, maybe I do.

Have Lies' power be that he reads vanilla to Applejack's scan. Giving the town power roles a role that is immune to scans might subvert the mafia strategy of cheesing their way into finding everyone through scanning brute force.

As a former Avatar of Lies, it's what I'd do!

Egarwaen
07-23-2012, 05:05 PM
They do? I guess that's counting their kill?

With two chances per night, they'd almost certainly have found all the Avatars by Night 5 or so. That's what happened in Ponymafia I.

Yup. Their scan can potentially identify one, their kill another. I'm not sure that giving the Avatars a fake role is enough to balance that out; they can still kill 5 of the 6 with the scan-and-kill routine, then backtrack and narrow down the remainder.

dtsund
07-23-2012, 05:06 PM
I'm disinclined to say it's overpowered, because I still think the original game had a pro-Mafia slant. I think it's less 'overpowered' and more 'necessary balance'.

Destil
07-23-2012, 07:24 PM
Mafia XX-something
Ponies 2: Mafia is Witchcraft
the forum game of the internet fan parody of the popular children's TV show

What's revealed to the public on an nightkill? What's revealed to the mafia on a night kill? What's revealed to the public on a lynch?

The Avatar of Lies - ho, boy. Never got enugh of that truth detector, did you? For what it's worth I haven't really been able to break this any worse than using it as a second inspector early on, though by the late game (especially after an inspector reveal) it could quickly become ungodly powerful. The danger in revealing late (when there aren't many avatars left alive) may balance this out, though...

Are Twlight and Madness involved in their respective night chats (i.e. it is a three person chat, or just the two targets?) Are identies of everypony in the chat know?

Rarity - I still greatly prefer this role being unable to self target. Or some other limitation on affecting lynches. Can the Mane 6 use this to change their night kill results? If so does it hide the result from them?

Solitayre
07-23-2012, 07:35 PM
Children's TV shows are serious business.

Brickroad
07-23-2012, 08:25 PM
What's revealed to the public on an nightkill? What's revealed to the mafia on a night kill? What's revealed to the public on a lynch?

What do you suggest?

Destil
07-23-2012, 08:31 PM
For this ruleset? Full night kill and lynch reveals so the town's power roles know how deep of a hole they're in before revealing. Rarity's power doesn't on Mane 6s nightkill targets (because I sure as hell would make every night kill Raincloud or whoever given the chance to screw with the town).

dtsund
07-24-2012, 12:44 AM
Should we get the poll thread started?

Torgo
07-24-2012, 12:52 AM
Is WormRider still pitching a game? She listed two possibilities that she might.

ais523
07-24-2012, 10:46 AM
I'm disinclined to say it's overpowered, because I still think the original game had a pro-Mafia slant. I think it's less 'overpowered' and more 'necessary balance'.

Games where both sides are overpowered have a tendency to collapse in one side's favour based on the first few kills, which can make it kind-of unfun for everyone left alive. That's not saying it's necessarily a bad idea, but it's hard to make it work.

This could presumably be fixed by making a game in which every single player has an overpowered ability. Perhaps I'll make one of those some day, but it would be incredibly difficult to make it work (and probably not fit in well at TT).

Eddie
07-24-2012, 01:33 PM
If you're going to go with the Avatar of Lies' ability to "discover the truth" of a statement, you might want to be clear which statements are eligible so we don't have a "well that pony THINKS it's true..." thing happen again. I would recommend that the power only work on statements that can be answered with a yes/no.

Although honestly, I think it would be funnier if the Avatar of Lies forced other ponies to make a ridiculous statement the following day. So their power could be to force Nich to say the following day, "I scanned Brickroad and he's Twilight Sparkle". I'm mostly just thinking of the hilarious possibilities.

- Eddie

WormRider
07-24-2012, 01:35 PM
I'm suddenly busy with something and I'm not getting the time I wanted to think over my pitches a bit more, so I won't be pitching them for now. I'll probably play the next game, though.

McClain
07-24-2012, 01:39 PM
I swear if you guys vote in Thing II while I'm taking a break I will cut someone.

Solitayre
07-24-2012, 02:57 PM
Should we get the poll thread started?

Election Mafia, Thing II, MafiaHack III, Mafia is Witchcraft, Assassination Mafia, is that all of them?

McClain
07-30-2012, 11:05 AM
I say do option 2 with the stipulation that there is to be NO TAGGING from anyone other than the current game's GM or with the GM's blessing until the game is over. Treat stray tagging like any other posts: Possible warning and a reminder of the rules to mod kill to game banning, depending on the offence. That way useful tags CAN be put up during the game (like Mafia, M21, etc.) but minimize the bullshit.

Nich, as a Mod can you post more than 2 tags?

Destil
07-30-2012, 11:39 AM
I say do option 2 with the stipulation that there is to be NO TAGGING from anyone other than the current game's GM or with the GM's blessing until the game is over.

Egarwaen
07-30-2012, 05:53 PM
I think:
1) No tags from anyone in the game. Anyone caught doing this is treated the same as having posted in this thread.
2) Absolutely no tags from anyone in the champaign room.
3) There's no punishment we can really levy against non-players, but we can ask them not to and delete their tags as soon as they pop up. They've got no privileged information, so whatever.

Torgo
07-31-2012, 01:37 AM
I think simply "no tags while the game is running" would be much more better and easier for everyone involved. Make it a very clear disclaimer in the game thread's op. As Egar pointed out, there's really not much policing we can do against non-players, but rather than have a set of rules about who can post what, just forbid it until the game's over.

Dizzy
07-31-2012, 03:19 PM
Put my vote in for the "no tags till game ends" rule. Simple and easy.

Jaxon
07-31-2012, 04:21 PM
I'm thinking that escalating through ( private warning / removal from game / temp forum ban ) on each offense would be pretty fair. That's pretty standard, right?

McClain
07-31-2012, 04:27 PM
I agree with the general sentiment that tags shouldn't be used while the game is in progress, I'm just asking how people want me to handle it in the unlikely event that someone breaks that rule. Call them out in the thread? Just quietly delete it?

Quietly delete it and maybe send a PM. I wouldn't call anyone out in public unless someone's getting banned or mod killed or something.

I'm predicting it'll be mostly like posting in the former Meta thread by new players who don't notice that part of the rules.

Dizzy
07-31-2012, 04:29 PM
Put my vote in for the "no tags till game ends" rule. Simple and easy.

Egarwaen
07-31-2012, 04:44 PM
I agree with the general sentiment that tags shouldn't be used while the game is in progress, I'm just asking how people want me to handle it in the unlikely event that someone breaks that rule. Call them out in the thread? Just quietly delete it?

Delete it and inform the GM of the game.

Destil
07-31-2012, 05:04 PM
Delete it and inform the GM of the game.

This is also, IMHO, how we should handle posts by non-players in an active mafia thread.

Solitayre
07-31-2012, 05:14 PM
Delete it and inform the GM of the game.

This is probably the best solution.

Paul le Fou
08-07-2012, 02:32 AM
I'm so... *sniff* ... so proud. Work is really busy right now or I'd come out of mafia retirement to take part in The Thing II, but I'll be watching and with you in spirit. Do champagne rooms still exist?

Mogri
08-09-2012, 04:53 PM
Mafia 22: Pokémafia

Players may only speak using the names of their Pokémon identities.

Ex: Bulbasaur may say, "Bulba bulbasaur." Pikachu may say, "Pika piii." Meowth may not say, "Meowth, that's right!"

The game plays as usual otherwise.

Destil
09-14-2012, 12:48 PM
Looking for one replacement player for The Thing II.

Dizzy
09-14-2012, 12:57 PM
Hahahahahahahaha.

Falselogic
09-14-2012, 03:25 PM
Hahahahahahahaha.

Brickroad
09-16-2012, 05:50 AM
Looking for one replacement player for The Thing II.

I'll do it.

Solitayre
09-28-2012, 04:38 PM
Think we need another simple game as a palette cleanser after a rather trying previous game. I'd also really like to see a smaller game so we don't have people who can't/don't want to play signing up to fill slots.

Anyway, I think the flavor of choice is obvious:

Princess Bride Mafia

Roles:

Guaranteed Town Roles

1 Town Investigator: Learns a player's allegiance once per night.

1 Town Vigilante: May kill one player of his choice per night. May kill on consecutive nights, but may kill no more than twice per game.

Possible Town Roles

0-1 Town Doctor: May select one player per night. If that player is killed at night, the Doctor will revive them. The Doctor may not protect himself. Upon a successful protection, a revived player will not be able to use any powers until one day has passed.

0-1 Town Stonewall: Requires majority to lynch, rather than plurality.

0-1 Town President: The president's vote is always given precedence when there are ties. The mafia must exceed the town's numbers, rather than match them, to win if the President is alive.

Guaranteed Mafia Roles

1 Mafia Tracker: May target a player at night. He will learn if that player was targeted by any other players that night, and who targeted them, but not what they did.

1 Mafia Jailer: May select any player at night. Any actions that player takes that night will fail. However, that player also may not be killed that night.

1 Mafia Godfather: This player will read innocent if investigated, but read as mafia if lynched or killed.


Number of players: 13-16

Other notes:

-Normal Mafia rules apply. The mafia win if their numbers equal or exceed the town's numbers (but see President.) The town wins when all mafia are dead.
-Ties are broken by the earliest vote, but see President.
-Successful protections will be public knowledge.
-Identities of players killed at night are known only to their killers.
-This ruleset probably isn't balanced and I honestly don't care that much, and neither should you. Still, welcoming all suggestions/comments.

Egarwaen
09-28-2012, 04:44 PM
I like it, and would be willing to GM it if you'd like to play? I'll be in Canada for a week from October 5th through the 13th, so I'd need a co-GM...

Gerad
09-28-2012, 05:15 PM
Dear god yes. This is something I may actually be able to make some flavor posts about!

I think you can balance it well enough to be playable without too much trouble as long as you're careful about numbers and roles.

Yimothy
09-28-2012, 05:17 PM
1 Mafia Tracker: May target a player at night. He will learn if that player was targeted by any other players that night, and who targeted them.

Does "who" here mean which player, or which role?

Solitayre
09-28-2012, 05:23 PM
Does "who" here mean which player, or which role?

Player. Changing it so it's clearer.

McClain
09-28-2012, 05:52 PM
Princess Bride Mafia.

Goddammit I was going to try to skip the next game!

I will still most likely skip playing the next game but I look forward to reading this one either way. :)

botticus
09-28-2012, 06:08 PM
What amounts to a Mafia inspector in a small game makes me a little leery, but I suppose the odds of both a town inspector/doctor and the tracker picking the same person are low enough that it isn't too terrible.

Mogri
09-28-2012, 07:12 PM
The vigilante will also trigger the tracker. You might consider adding townies whose only power is to target dudes.

Yimothy
09-29-2012, 01:50 AM
I think the tracker is a very interesting role. It'll give the town power roles something to think about when they choose their targets, that's for sure.

dtsund
09-29-2012, 02:50 PM
dtsund and ais523 present...

MafiaHack III: Hack Harder: This Time It's Personal



Hello, player, welcome to MafiaHack! (For instructions type a ?)

?

Among you are a number of evildoers, who wish to thwart your attempt to reach the Amulet of Yendor. If they ever kill enough of you to match your numbers, it will be over for you.

Thankfully, there's a handy shopkeeper nearby willing to sell his wares to the highest bidder. Sadly, he won't tell you what any of the items do; while all Potions of Enlightenment will be the same color, for example, you won't initially know what that color is. At the start of each day phase, in addition to opening discussion and allowing voting, a number of items will be put up for bids, selected at random; each player may use some or all of their starting money to bid on the items. Bids are done by PM; the other players don't get to see your bids. The player who bids the most on an item at the end of the day wins it, but must surrender his bid's worth of money regardless of what the other players bid. You may keep changing your bid until the current day ends. Ties will be resolved randomly. Winning an item gives you the ability to use that item, but the power may be one-time use in nature, disappearing after use. If you die, the items in your possession are not revealed. Your enemies may bid on and use items, the same as other players.

Each day, 5 + 1d2 items will be offered for bidding.

This game will be played under Deep South rules; there will be no night phase. The Mafia will be able to communicate 24/7, and their kill takes effect at the end of the current day phase (after everything else resolves). Item uses will take effect at each vote count, and said vote counts will be at 24-hour intervals. Days will be the standard 72 hours.

You may not give your money to anyone else. You may, however, give items away at any time; PM me and I'll anonymously transfer the item to the other player's inventory at the next vote count.

Everyone starts with the indicated amount of spending money.

The Mafia may individually bid on and use items. Regardless of when they submit their kill choice, the kill is the last thing to happen in a given day. With the full resources of whatever evil they serve behind them, they get 65 zorkmids each.

The Players are this game's Citizens. They get powers only from the use of items. They get 50 zorkmids each.

The Wizard starts with no money, but 3 + 1d2 random-ish* items from the below list, plus a free Scroll of Mail, identified and all.

*The Wizard will never start with a Wand of Wishing, Wand of Polymorph, Wand of Striking, Potion of Acid, Ring of Invisibility, Ring of Hunger, Ring of Adornment, Ring of Stealth, or Scroll of Punishment, and additionally will not start with a Scroll of Charging if he or she does not start with a wand. The Wizard will know the identities of the items they start with.

The Tourist is identical to the regular players, except that he starts with 65 zorkmids instead of 50.

Additionally, 2d2 random (non-Wizard) players will start with a known Scroll of Mail.

All items take the form of potions, scrolls, wands, or rings. Rings act passively; when purchased, you may choose to put them on to enjoy the effects, or take them off to nullify them. Potions can either be drunk (giving you the effects) or thrown (giving someone else of your choice the effects). Scrolls can be read for the desired effect, but will crumble to dust when used. Wands can be zapped at another player, living or dead; each wand has only one charge on it, however, so it can only be used once. Used wands do not leave your inventory (because they can potentially be recharged).

Items are as follows. When an item is used, the effect takes place at the next vote count. Where conflicts in the players' usage of items may arise, the Scroll of Confuse Monster takes highest priority; the Wand of Lightning gets lowest priority. Some items are automatically identified on use, as noted below.


Wands: All wands are used by zapping at another player or yourself. Each wand starts with exactly one charge. Except as explained below, you won't be told what your wand zap did (although in some cases, it will be obvious).

Wand of Wishing: Regardless of who the target was, zapping this wand gives the user either 50 more zorkmids or the item of his or her choice. Beware, though; attempting to recharge a spent Wand of Wishing will cause it to explode, killing the bearer. Identified on use.

Wand of Light: All item-based actions taken by the target of this wand for the next three vote counts (the one when the item is used, and the next two) become publicly announced, unless he or she is wearing a Ring of Invisibility.

Wand of Teleportation: Temporarily removes the target from item-based play. All item-based actions and all kill attempts against the target of this wand fail for the next three vote counts (the one when the item is used, and the next two), as do all such things attempted by the target. The target may still participate in auctions, however. The target will not know that they've been teleported (although they may guess when their items fail).

Wand of Striking: Clubs the target over the head, to no effect other than informing the target who zapped him.

Wand of Lightning: Instantly kills the target; this wand makes a god-awful racket when used, so everyone knows you're the culprit (unless you're wearing a Ring of Invisibility, in which case everyone will know that someone used a Wand of Lightning but not who). Beware, though; attempting to recharge a spent Wand of Lightning more than once will cause it to explode, killing the bearer. Identified on use.

Wand of Polymorph: Scrambles any investigation results that would be provided on the target by the Potion of Holy Water and Wand of Probing for the next three vote counts (the one when this item is used, and the next two). If the target is lynched within this time period, the final identity given to the town will be false, showing them to be on a different team than they actually are.

Wand of Digging: Retrieves a dead player's inventory, including money, if zapped at a dead player. No effect if zapped at a living player.

Wand of Cancellation: Destroys all items in the target's inventory.

Wand of Probing: Reveals the affiliation of the zapped target to whoever zapped him. Identified on use.


Potions: All potions may be drunk (giving the drinker the effects) or thrown (giving the target the effects, i.e. the target will be considered the user of the item). You won't know what potion you drank unless the effects are obvious, except as explained below. If thrown, the target will be informed of the appearance of the potion that hit him, but not who threw it.

Potion of Enlightenment: Reveals the items that will be sold the next day to the user, not counting any extra items that might be on offer due to Rings of Sustain Ability. Identified on use.

Potion of Holy Water: The user, if evil, will be publicly revealed to be covered in burns, unless wearing a Ring of Invisibility. No effect on innocent players. These results are reversed by polymorph.

Potion of Acid: The user will be publicly revealed to be covered in burns, regardless of alignment, unless wearing a Ring of Invisibility.

Potion of Healing: The user will be immune to non-lynch kills for three vote counts (the one when the item is used, and the next two). Instantly cancels any Potion of Sickness time-outs on the user; only works against a Ring of Hunger on the turn where the ring actually makes the kill. Identified on use.

Potion of Sickness: The user will die after six vote counts (i.e. on the fifth vote count after the item is used). Identified on use.

Potion of Object Detection: The user may specify an item sold in a previous auction, and is told where the item now is, if it still exists. Identified on use.

Potion of Confusion: For the next three vote counts (the one when the item is used, and the next two), all attempts by the user to read a scroll will simply identify and waste the scroll, and all attempts to otherwise target another player will be as though a random target had been chosen. The user won't necessarily know that they are confused, although they may be able to guess when their actions fail.


Scrolls: All scrolls may be used by reading them. All scrolls are identified when read.

Scroll of Charging: Adds a charge to a wand in your inventory. Be careful about charging Wands of Wishing or Wands of Lightning, however. Identified on use.

Scroll of Gold Detection: Reveals the gold count of the player of your choice when read. Identified on use.

Scroll of Scare Monster: No effect when read. Blocks the regular Mafia kill (but no item-based kills) if you possess this scroll and it is aimed at you, but crumbles to dust in the process. Identified on use.

Scroll of Mail: Opens a permanent private communication channel between yourself and the player of your choice when read. Identified on use.

Scroll of Fire: No effect when read. If held in your inventory when you die, you will have until the next vote count to name a player (by PMing a moderator; your choice will not be publicly revealed unless it kills someone); if that player was responsible for your death (by being Mafia if Mafia-killed, by being the zapper of a Wand of Lightning used to kill you, or by having a vote on you when you were lynched), you will retaliate by instantly killing that player. Identified on use.

Scroll of Confuse Monster: When read, this scroll allows the reader to choose a player. That player will suffer the same effect as if they had drank a Potion of Confusion. Identified on use.

Scroll of Identify: Allows the reader to learn the identity of one of the game's items. The player may either provide an item type and learn what it looks like, or an item appearance and learn what it actually is. The item in question need not be in the player's inventory. Identified on use.

Scroll of Punishment: Slaps a ball-and-chain around the reader's leg that'll take a while to remove. Shopkeepers don't like dealing with people who look like escaped convicts, so the reader won't be able to participate in the next two auctions.


Rings: All rings may be put on or taken off, with this taking effect from the next vote count.

Ring of Sustain Ability: For each one of these rings worn at the end of a day, one additional item will be available for auction at the start of the next day.

Ring of Aggravate Monster: While worn, this ring makes the identity of anybody targeting you for any purpose public knowledge (unless they are wearing a Ring of Invisibility), though it will not be revealed what they did to you.

Ring of Life Saving: While worn, this ring prevents all non-lynch kills from acting on you, but will crumble to dust as soon as it blocks one such kill. If you're lynched, though, the town makes sure to remove your jewellery from your hands before you're killed, so this won't help you there.

Ring of Warning: While worn, you may give the GM a message to relay to the town in the event of your untimely demise (except via a lynch). The most recent message given to the GM will be used, and revealed as coming from you. Identified when worn.

Ring of Hunger: Cursed; cannot be removed, and cannot be given away once put on. The wearer dies of starvation after three vote counts (i.e. two vote counts after the vote count on which it was worn), unless the ring is destroyed in the meantime, or the death is prevented on the vote count on which the ring finally kills you. If the death is somehow prevented (e.g. by a Potion of Healing), the ring falls off and no longer counts as worn. Identified when worn.

Ring of Invisibility: While worn, actions where the wearer's involvement would otherwise be broadcast publicly (as, for example, from being hit with a Potion of Acid, or as a result of a Wand of Light, or using a Wand of Lightning or Wand of Striking) will not become public knowledge; only the wearer will be told that they happened (unless they already know).

Ring of Stealth: If worn at the end of a day, your vote will not have any weight in the final vote count. (You won't be told that this happened, although you may be able to guess based on an unusual voting result.)

Ring of Adornment: If worn at the end of a day, all nonzero item bids you made that day will be counted as though they were 5 zorkmids higher than they actually were for the purpose of determining who wins an item. You'll still only have to pay the amount you bid, though.

Ring of Free Action: While worn, all item uses on your part that would otherwise fail due to confusion or teleportation will still work properly.



Item generation: All of the above items are equally likely to be generated in the auction each day.

Accusations and voting will be done as usual; you must accuse someone in bold for it to count for a vote, and can only vote for one person at a time (but can change your mind as often as you wish). The identities of all killed players will be made public, with the caveat that polymorph will reverse the team the player is announced to be on (making all non-Mafia appear as Mafia, and Mafia as ordinary Citizens).

The order of events at a vote count will be as follows: Lynch (if any) --> Auctions (if any) --> Item use --> Item transfers --> "Night"kill (if any).

This game will be co-modded by dtsund and ais523. Editing posts, deleting posts, and posting in the meta thread, and posting in the thread (as opposed to PMing a moderator) after your death are all verboten (unless your post comes so soon after your death you couldn't have had time to know you died). Violators will be struck down with wide-angle disintegration beams, and you know I'll do it too.

Destil
09-29-2012, 02:58 PM
What order do item use/transfer/lynch take place in? Mafia who are always safe to pass of their items to fellow mafia when lynched is easily my biggest gripe with Mafia Hack.

ais523
09-29-2012, 03:10 PM
What order do item use/transfer/lynch take place in? Mafia who are always safe to pass of their items to fellow mafia when lynched is easily my biggest gripe with Mafia Hack.

If a votecount contains a lynch, then it happens before any of the "night actions" at that votecount would. So a lynched player doesn't get to use or pass any items, unless they sent the transfer an entire 24 hours in advance, and it took place at the previous vote-count instead.

dtsund
09-29-2012, 03:30 PM
What order do item use/transfer/lynch take place in? Mafia who are always safe to pass of their items to fellow mafia when lynched is easily my biggest gripe with Mafia Hack.

I've amended the post with the order. Lynches first, then auction awards, then item use, then item transfers, then "nightkills".

Additionally, I've also updated the potion section to clarify that the target of a thrown potion is told what potion hit him.

Gerad
09-29-2012, 03:30 PM
Is there a target number of players for MafiaHack III?

dtsund
09-29-2012, 03:43 PM
Probably 16-24, preferably closer to the middle of that range.

Umby
09-29-2012, 04:35 PM
I think it'd be interesting if the Ring of Invisibility and the Ring of Stealth were combined into one item.

Falselogic
09-30-2012, 10:51 AM
Having to keep track of items and money and such gets to be too much. As neat as it looks I think I'd prefer a simpler rule set.

Yimothy
09-30-2012, 10:55 AM
I'm a big fan of mafiahack, but I'm not keen on the no night phase thing.

Dizzy
09-30-2012, 11:19 AM
If you don't want a laborious game, vote Thing II.

=D

Solitayre
10-03-2012, 01:39 PM
So, are we looking at only two rulesets this time around? Maybe people really are just burned out on this game.

Falselogic
10-03-2012, 01:46 PM
So, are we looking at only two rulesets this time around? Maybe people really are just burned out on this game.

You guys have been going nonstop on it for like three years...

dtsund
10-03-2012, 01:49 PM
Nah, we've had a burnout hiatus before.

I'd propose that the problem was Thing II, but then I remembered that the only reason Thing II was run at all was because we couldn't get enough people together for Mafia is Witchcraft, so... perhaps a combination of the two.

McClain
10-03-2012, 02:11 PM
I know that I'm personally a little burned out and busy right now, but I've also played nearly every game since M4.

I would say it might be a good idea to put together ideas for games that can be run with few people and try some "palate cleansers" from the long and complicated games we've been doing.

Destil
10-04-2012, 01:00 AM
I've been doing the same pitch so long I'm not really sure what to do next (and I wouldn't mind sitting a game out at least as a GM).

Torgo
10-04-2012, 04:32 AM
Here's a thing. It's not finished.

River City Ransom Mafia

Teams
The Gangsters (Town)
Heroes (Mafia)

Victory Conditions
The Gangsters win when all the Heroes are defeated
The Heroes win when they establish a voting majority.

Basic Game Flow

Day/Night
Days are 72 hours, nights are 48.

Lynching
Each day, players may vote and decide upon a player to lynch. This is done on a separate line, in bold.

Example: I accuse Torgo.

At the end of the day phase, the player with the most votes is lynched and removed from the game. Unless otherwise noted, affiliation and role are revealed upon lynch. During night, the Heroes will chat amongst themselves and choose a player to kill. That player will die upon the start of the following day. Affiliation and role may not be revealed.

Standard Mafia rules of conduct apply: Players may not discuss the game outside of assigned threads. Tags may not be applied to the thread until the game is over. Spectators are discouraged from discussing the game anywhere where currently active players might see.

The Teams, in detail

Guaranteed Gangster Power Roles
Slick: May choose a target at night to kill. Has a cooldown of two nights after a successful kill. Slick learns affiliation and role upon their death.
Randy and Andy: May night chat with one another. As long as both Randy and Andy are alive, they may choose one target per night to protect, and may continue to do so each night even after a successful protection. If Randy or Andy is killed, there is a cooldown of one evening between successful protections.

Possible Gangster Power Roles
Benny and Cylde: May night chat with one another.
Otis: Once per night, may target one player to investigate. Their affiliation and role is revealed.
Ivan: Requires a majority vote to lynch, as opposed to a plurality.

Guaranteed Hero Roles
Alex and Ryan: Unpowered, but each night may purchase items (see list below)
Roxy: Roxy will appear as town when investigated. She may investigate one player per night to find out their role and affiliation. She cannot participate in nightchat with Alex and Ryan, but each day she may compose one fifty character message to send to Alex and Ryan, recieved upon day's end.

Possible Hero Roles
Cyndi: Unpowered, but if Cyndi is lynched while Ryan is still alive, Ryan may make choose a second target to kill the following night.

Everyone else
Gangster: Unpowered. Each unpowered gangster is assigned to a specific gang, that will define the amount of money Alex and Ryan recieve upon lynch or nightkill.

Slick and Roxy
Despite being on different sides, Slick and Roxy are lovers. Should one die, the other will become grieved and unpowered for the remainder of the game.

Errata
All the Heroes know one another.
The Heroes will not gain a second nightkill if they kill Cyndi themselves.
The Heroes do not gain money from Slick's nightkills.

Items
Upon each successful nightkill and lynch of a gangster, Alex and Ryan will earn money to spend. Each night, they will have a selection of items to purchase from.

Examples
Walkie-Talkie (toy): Alex and Ryan will be able to use the nightchat the following day. Item is user-activated and is consumed upon use.
Sleeping Pills (drug): Purchaser may target one player any following night. That player will be unable to participate or vote the following day. The town is notified upon the day's start. Item is user-activated and is consumed upon use.
Talking Time (book): Purchaser's vote now counts as two. Power is activated upon purchase and is persistant.

Obviously the item list needs fleshing out, but you get the idea. I'm not sure how I feel about the possibility of two sets of Masons for the Town. I'm inclined to either make Andy and Randy separate Angels with a cooldown upon a successful protection, or just axing Benny and Clyde altogether.

Adam
10-05-2012, 12:44 AM
I would say it might be a good idea to put together ideas for games that can be run with few people and try some "palate cleansers" from the long and complicated games we've been doing.

How about you and Nich log onto IRC tomorrow for some #5mm

namelessentity
10-05-2012, 08:31 AM
How about you and Nich log onto IRC tomorrow for some #5mm

Do people still play #5mm? Is it just a thing that sometimes happens spontaneously?

breakman
10-05-2012, 08:53 PM
I have a half-formed idea for a game which might suffice as a mostly-formed simple-ish game, after removing the parts that make it complicated.

Basically: There are three equally-sized factions, plus a smaller secret boss faction (5 players for each regular team, and 3 secret bosses, perhaps?). At the end of each day, after the lynch, the faction with the most living players gets one point (no points are awarded for a tie). At night, the secret bosses get to chat in private, and choose one player to kill. The game ends when one faction gets to 3 points, or if the secret bosses have the most living players, or tie with another faction for most living players, at the end of a day.

Does that work at all?

elementalpenguin
10-05-2012, 10:17 PM
Mafia 22: Pokémafia

Players may only speak using the names of their Pokémon identities.

Ex: Bulbasaur may say, "Bulba bulbasaur." Pikachu may say, "Pika piii." Meowth may not say, "Meowth, that's right!"

The game plays as usual otherwise.

Why did people stop talking about this? The most original idea we've had in ages.

Also Princess Bride Mafia seems cool I guess.

Falselogic
10-06-2012, 05:33 PM
Mafia 22: Pokémafia

Players may only speak using the names of their Pokémon identities.

Ex: Bulbasaur may say, "Bulba bulbasaur." Pikachu may say, "Pika piii." Meowth may not say, "Meowth, that's right!"

The game plays as usual otherwise.Why did people stop talking about this? The most original idea we've had in ages.

Also Princess Bride Mafia seems cool I guess.

I'd play it but I'd only communicate through posting pics of the other pokemons.

Gerad
10-06-2012, 05:56 PM
I'd play it but I'd only communicate through posting pics of the other pokemons.

How is that different from any other game you play? (Zing!)

Falselogic
10-06-2012, 06:11 PM
How is that different from any other game you play? (Zing!)

I'm not complaining about how stupid these games, or the people who play them, are.

(Zing!)

Gerad
10-06-2012, 07:03 PM
Fair enough. Carry on.

breakman
10-13-2012, 01:12 PM
So no one wants to play nuthin'?

Torgo
10-13-2012, 01:21 PM
When other folks is ready to play, I'll (probably) be game. Until then, I'm not minding a bit of a hiatus.

Solitayre
10-13-2012, 04:16 PM
Well, if not many people are ready for a huge game again (I know I'm not), Princess Bride mafia could easily be adjusted to run with very few.

dtsund
10-14-2012, 06:31 PM
Since a hiatus here looks likely, I've decided to pitch MafiaHack (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?topic=6597.0) on the Brontoforums; it'll be run there if we get 15 or more players, if anyone's interested in participating.

Gerad
10-14-2012, 06:51 PM
I'll have to take a look at Brontoforums and see if there's still room.

If playing another game here is still up for discussion, I'm in for pretty much any game whenever. I've been ready since I went out of the thing game. I won't begrudge you all a hiatus if that's the general sentiment, though, as most of you have played 3-4x the games I have.

Falselogic
10-14-2012, 07:51 PM
since a hiatus here looks likely, i've decided to pitch mafiahack (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?topic=6597.0) on the brontoforums; it'll be run there if we get 15 or more players, if anyone's interested in participating.

traitor!

Mogri
10-14-2012, 07:52 PM
Well, if not many people are ready for a huge game again (I know I'm not), Princess Bride mafia could easily be adjusted to run with very few.

There aren't a lot of pitches, but Princess Bride mafia sounds fantastic to me.

dtsund
10-22-2012, 04:46 PM
Since a hiatus here looks likely, I've decided to pitch MafiaHack (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?topic=6597.0) on the Brontoforums; it'll be run there if we get 15 or more players, if anyone's interested in participating.

We're up to 9 players over there; if we get 6 more, we'll have a game.

Dizzy
10-27-2012, 12:51 PM
ThingV (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?topic=6612.0)

HEY GUYS

my name is Kazz. I've received Special Permission from Friday to run a THING game.

We will use EXACTLY THE SAME RULES that were used in Thing4. http://brontoforum.us/index.php?topic=6581.0

With one exception. We will be running the game with anonymous accounts.

I'll be creating them and giving them out myself, so you don't have to worry about registering accounts. I'll PM you your game account name and password when the game begins.

Sign up here PLEASE


Look at this. Look at what they're doing. Fuck every one you.

Falselogic
10-27-2012, 02:51 PM
ThingV (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?topic=6612.0)




Look at this. Look at what they're doing. Fuck every one you.

No one is making you post or play here...

Gerad
10-27-2012, 04:05 PM
I think anonymous accounts would actually be kind of interesting. On top of the usual arguments, you get "is this really [insert distinctive poster here]?" timewasting.

But seriously, that does dampen the metagame, and I would think there'd be people who'd love that.

Torgo
10-27-2012, 04:32 PM
I would take the anonymity one step further and have signups via pm, that way no one truly knows who else is playing.

Dizzy
10-29-2012, 11:18 PM
No one is making you post or play here...

I am banned from their games.

I cited their game for provocative and instructive reasons.

Caithness
10-30-2012, 03:08 PM
I would take the anonymity one step further and have signups via pm, that way no one truly knows who else is playing.

About half of the sign-ups in that game were double-anonymous.

JohnB
11-02-2012, 12:43 PM
I like Dizzy's new (to me) avatar.

Solitayre
11-02-2012, 12:45 PM
I currently suspect that the reason for this hiatus is that now that the town lynched Umby and he was actually mafia there's no longer any reason to play.

McClain
11-02-2012, 12:47 PM
I currently suspect that the reason for this hiatus is that now that the town lynched Umby and he was actually mafia there's no longer any reason to play.

I'm taking a break, and there can't be TT mafia without at least the joke of killing me first. Sorry for ruining mafia, guys! I'll play again some day, probably.

gahitsu
11-09-2012, 05:45 PM
Just wanted to say anonymous Bronto Thing Mafia was fucking rad.

Falselogic
11-09-2012, 06:20 PM
Just wanted to say anonymous Bronto Thing Mafia was fucking rad.

Nothing about Bronto's is rad...

Mogri
11-12-2012, 03:19 PM
Here's an idea.

Double-Blind Mafia

The game is divided into three teams. At the beginning of the game, the teams are announced -- everyone knows which players are on which teams. However, the game is then played anonymously: players don't know the identities of the other players, and therefore, they don't know who is on which team.

The Day phase is played as normal Mafia: it lasts 72 hours, and the player who has accrued the most votes at the end of the day is removed from the game. His identity is announced on death. Players may also vote "no lynch." If "no lynch" is the most popular vote, no lynch occurs. Ties go to the vote leader who received the earliest vote still on the books.

During the night phase, each player PMs the in-game name of another player to the GM. The votes are tallied separately for each team, and each team kills the chosen player. Ties are decided randomly among the leading votes. It is possible for a team to kill one of its own players.

In addition, once per night, a player may PM a confidence vote for another player's in-game name. This signifies that the player believes the other player to be a member of his team. If the vote is correct, the two players are connected and gain access to a private nightchat, starting the following night. Connections are transitive; for example, if A connects to B and B connects to C, all three players are connected. If the vote is incorrect, the voting player is killed. Dead players may not participate in nightchats.

At the beginning of the next day, the players who died overnight are listed, along with their identities. The cause of death is not given.

A team wins when no players on opposing teams remain.

Gerad
11-12-2012, 03:47 PM
The basic concept is very intriguing. Couple observations:

This is probably a better game for lots of players; four kills a day (wrong player guesses could result in more) for at least the first couple days will add up quickly. I'd expect an 18-player game to be over in about 5 days; that's probably just about a realistic minimum number of players.

I like the risk/reward dynamic of guessing who each person is that's on your team. It opens up interesting possibilities for each player's tone: try to subtly hint to your teammates that it's you, front another player, or go completely anonymous.

I'd play it.

Mogri
11-12-2012, 04:13 PM
My guess is that it would be a very quick game, even for a large number of players. However, four kills is worst-case: players can vote no-lynch, and teams can nightkill the same player. (In that case, that player is extra-dead.) However, there is always the possibility of everyone putting in a bad confidence vote on night one, ending the game immediately with no victor.

gahitsu
11-12-2012, 05:18 PM
I don't understand how it's "double-blind" if you're announcing the players before the game. Certainly defeats the purpose (and spirit, and fun) of a double-blind game, anyhow.

Mogri
11-12-2012, 05:24 PM
The purpose (and spirit, and fun) of the pitch is to guess who your fellow players are. It's not supposed to be "like regular Mafia, but anonymous."

Egarwaen
11-12-2012, 05:24 PM
That sounds hilarious and easy to not take seriously. I'd totally be down.

gahitsu
11-12-2012, 05:33 PM
The purpose (and spirit, and fun) of the pitch is to guess who your fellow players are. It's not supposed to be "like regular Mafia, but anonymous."

... Granted, but it's still not double-blind.

It doesn't matter, though. Have fun with it.

Dizzy
11-12-2012, 06:09 PM
I like how we're now considering a concept I've been pushing for about two fucking years now. Congratulations, you guys discovered fire!

Destil
11-12-2012, 06:15 PM
I like how we're now considering a concept I've been pushing for about two fucking years now. Congratulations, you guys discovered fire!

Except it's the exact opposite: in your proposals anonymity was to remove the metagame. In this the metagame is the game, and the anonymity is there to facilitate it.

Dizzy
11-12-2012, 08:03 PM
I'm just seeing the word "anonymity" pop up more on this page than any other page. Far more than "ponies" or "MPSA" or "Umby cycle." This is a good sign.

JohnB
11-13-2012, 03:07 PM
Oh Dizzy, you're such a scamp.

Guild
11-21-2012, 08:12 PM
When's the next game? I'll play.

Yimothy
11-21-2012, 09:12 PM
Well, Micromafia (http://www.talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=12335) only needs one more sign-up, right?

Torgo
11-21-2012, 11:06 PM
Not any more!

You know, assuming everyone involved still wanted to play. Granted that was over a year ago.

Guild
11-25-2012, 03:05 AM
Since it was a year ago, I made a new thread (http://www.talking-time.net/showthread.php?p=1432864#post1432864). If it fills, I'll run it. Any volunteers to co-moderate? I don't think I'll NEED the help, but it's always nice to have two mods.

dtsund
11-29-2012, 10:34 PM
So, are we ready for this hiatus to be over? I'm ready for this hiatus to be over.

Three hundred years ago, the continent of Indines was plunged into war. The Dark Overlord Rexan, mightiest sorcerer of the age and ruler of the monstrous legions of Gesselheim, sought to bring the entire world under his command. After a century of fighting, Rexan was defeated and ultimately slain; he would plague the realm of Indines no more.

Or so it was hoped...

Darkness threatens Indines once again, as some plot to resurrect Rexan and restore him to his former glory: some, former lieutenants of his; others, merely humans driven mad through contact with forbidden magic or the horrors beyond the planes. If they succeed, the Centennial War will most likely recur, with the outcome being far from certain. You must stop them - but the fell magic surrounding his attempted resurrection already obscures your vision, making it impossible to tell friend from foe...

BattleCON: Mafia of Indines

A game for 18 players, based on everyone's favorite fighting board game. Standard 72/48 hour day/night cycle, Mafia win when they have numerical parity with non-Mafia, town wins when all mafia are defeated. Tied votes are decided randomly. When a player dies, his or her alignment (Mafia/Town/Secret Boss) is revealed, but not his or her exact role.


The Mafia

Once per night, in addition to their standard nightkill, the Mafia may elect to invoke the power of Rexan by sending the GM a player and his/her suspected role. If this guess is correct, the named player dies at the end of the night, with no possibility of being saved; no life-saving powers can block this. If, however, this guess is incorrect, one of the Mafia, chosen at random, will die at the end of the night instead.

Hepzibah: Bodyguard. Once a renowned magical healer, her desire to know more about the forces underlying life have driven her to the darker aspects of same, including necromancy. Once per night, Hepzibah may choose one of her fellow Mafia to protect. If one of them would die, Hepzibah will die in his or her place, taking whomever was responsible with her.

Cherri: Roleblocker. Cherri was born an ordinary girl, albeit one suffering from a terminal illness. She was, at the brink of death, healed by Hepzibah, but at tremendous cost; she is now plagued by terrible visions from beyond this reality. She may choose to inflict them upon other players, blocking three Town players' night actions, but this ability only recharges when another Mafia member is killed.

Zaamassal: Nightchatter. Zaamassal was once a member of the the Planestalkers of Indines, an order of knights who patrol the neighboring planes, keeping reality safe from the horrors outside of it. A mission gone terribly wrong left him stranded in these alternate planes, gradually twisting and corrupting him, until he found himself back in Indines. His space-bending powers allow him to have an anonymous chat with one other player each night.

Heketch: Invoker. An inhuman, bloodthirsty demon summoned to Indines by Rexan to serve as his personal assassin, Heketch was one of his top soldiers, and longs for his return. If Heketch goes two (not necessarily consecutive) days without having any votes at the end of the day, Heketch will gain one Dark Force token; he can spend it to invoke Rexan on one night without any risk.

Demitras: Forger. A vampire who fought under Rexan. Once per night, if he had no votes against him at the end of the previous day, Demitras may forge the identity of one other player, changing his revealed identity upon death or inspection that night and the following day to whatever he wants.


The Town

Magdelina: Angel. Magdelina is a descendent of Saint Avenlia, one of the heroes who defeated Rexan in the Centennial War. The power she gains by channeling his spirit allows her to defend one other person per night, making him or her immune to non-Rexan nightkills.

Seth: Inspector. An elite oracle from the realm of Sanghalim, Seth's connection with the deity Kallimerina allow him to see and know things others cannot. Once per night, he may investigate one other person, learning his or her full role.

Rukyuk: Reloader. Rukyuk, a mercenary from Willat, wields a wide assortment of advanced technology in battle. Once per day, he may name one other player; that person's ability can used twice that night (unless he names Vanaah; her ability will instead recharge faster). Rukyuk may not name the same person on two consecutive days.

Cadenza: Juggernaut. The Cadenza-class robotic soldier is extremely resilient, almost to the point of indestructibility. Cadenza begins the game with three Iron Body tokens; once per night, he may spend one to become immune to non-Rexan nightkills.

Khadath: Trapper. An advanced student of magic at Argent University, Khadath is particularly skilled at placing traps. Once per night, he may plant a trap near one other player. If someone attempts to nightkill that player, the aggressor will be killed as well.

Lixis: Roleblocker. Lixis, one of the students of the famed Aaron Ross, is a dryad well versed in biomancy, particularly on the topic of weakening toxins. Once per night, Lixis may target one other player. If that player is Mafia, he or she will be unable to activate his or her power.

Kehrolyn: Shapeshifter. A colleague of Lixis, the shapeshifting homunculus Kehrolyn was a product of the very magic Dr. Ross practiced. Kehrolyn will learn the true identities of every player killed; once per game, she may choose to permanently take on the power of a dead Town player.

Hikaru: Survivor. Hikaru is a student alongside Khadath at Argent; he lacks the latter's dedication to study, but has a strong sense of loyalty and justice all the same. When killed, Hikaru will rejoin the game at the start of the following day.

Kallistar: Kamikaze. Kallistar is a half-human, half-fire elemental former student of Argent; she spent her time learning the destructive arts, and can burn away her own life force to that end. Once per game, at any time, she can kill one other person, at the cost of her own removal from the game.

Luc: Time Distorter. Luc was one of the heroes who struck down Rexan at the end of the Centennial war; rather than rest on his victory, Luc used his time manipulation devices to travel through time, remaining vigilant for Rexan's possible return. Luc begins the game with two Time tokens, and gains one more during each night phase. Any time during a day, he may spend any number of Time tokens to cast additional anonymous votes, one per token.

Vanaah: Vigilante. Vanaah is a paladin traveling alongside Magdelina, aiding her in her goal to prevent the resurrection of Rexan. She has the power to nightkill, but once it's used, she may not use it again for two more nights (or one more night if aided by a Reload).

Tatsumi: Nightchatter. Tatsumi has a deep bond with her panda familiar, Juto. Once per night, she may send Juto out to have an anonymous nightchat with one other player.


Secret Boss

Sagas: Doppelganger. Sagas comes from an entire dying dimension of doppelgangers, each with its own hero; the object of Sagas's admiration is a warrior who struck down Rexan at the end of the Centennial War. Now in Indines, Sagas seeks to follow in his footsteps, aiding both in Rexan's resurrection and in his second downfall, making him an enemy to all. If Sagas survives when either the Town or the Mafia achieve their win condition, Sagas will be the only winner.

Once per night, Sagas may Mirror one other player, learning his or her true identity and gaining his or her power permanently. He may activate all gained powers independently both of one another and of Mirror itself; if Sagas has Mirrored both Cadenza and Seth, for instance, he may investigate one other player, spend an Iron Body token, and Mirror a second player all on the same night. Sagas is also immune to Seth's investigation abilities; he may choose who he appears to be.

Gerad
11-30-2012, 08:26 AM
Does Khadath's Trapper skill work on Rexan kills?

It'd be interesting to have a secret boss this powerful -- I have to think they'd have a legitimate chance to win.

McClain
11-30-2012, 08:37 AM
I may be interested in playing after the holidays, but I'm going to be too busy until then. And I know games tend to lull during the week of Christmas anyhow. Y'all should play a game that can wrap in a couple to three weeks if you start one now.

Mogri
11-30-2012, 10:32 AM
Haha, awesome. I'd play it.

gahitsu
11-30-2012, 10:57 AM
I said I wasn't going to play in any more TT Mafia games, but for Undines I think I'll retract that.

e: I do think it might be a good idea to hold off until after the holidays, though.

botticus
11-30-2012, 11:01 AM
I feel like I'm finally ready to commit the energy necessary to be productive in a Mafia game, but McClain's point is a good one. A short game or one put off until after Christmas is probably the way to go right now.

breakman
11-30-2012, 11:10 AM
A Power Roles only game? Yes please.

Gerad
11-30-2012, 12:32 PM
Y'all should play a game that can wrap in a couple to three weeks if you start one now.

A short game like... MicroMafia? Two more signups!

Falselogic
11-30-2012, 01:07 PM
I'd be interested in the Indines one.

Solitayre
11-30-2012, 06:26 PM
BattleCON looks too complicated and too...not mafia.

Also, I can't see any way to stop a mass-claim from breaking this one wide open.

dtsund
11-30-2012, 06:53 PM
Also, I can't see any way to stop a mass-claim from breaking this one wide open.

That's kind of the entire reason for the Rexan invocation thing. My initial design allowed the Mafia to make as many guesses per night as they wanted, though; perhaps I should reinstate that.

Solitayre
11-30-2012, 07:30 PM
That's kind of the entire reason for the Rexan invocation thing. My initial design allowed the Mafia to make as many guesses per night as they wanted, though; perhaps I should reinstate that.

Well, right now a mass claim on Day 1 will out the entire mafia with a 100% success rate.

Gerad
11-30-2012, 08:48 PM
Well, right now a mass claim on Day 1 will out the entire mafia with a 100% success rate.

Assuming the PMs don't allow the two to be differentiated (and, in a game where all roles are known, making the contents of all role PMs public would do that) the best the mafia can hope for in response to a mass-claim is 5 coinflips on the duplicate roles they claim. Ignoring powers (and the mafia gets their pick of which powers to eliminate), the town loses 2 people every night and kills 2 (vigilante) the first night and 1 after that. The town gets wiped out in 6 days+nights even if the secret boss does nothing; they need to go 5/7 on kills to win, meaning they need to win at least three of five coinflips. They also have to take out the secret boss first.

Not sure the town does so well in that scenario. They'd need the people who are fighting fake claims to put up a solid fight.

Eliminating (or even just increasing) the nightly limit on Rexan kills completely torpedoes the mass-claim strategy.

breakman
11-30-2012, 08:52 PM
What if the Town players are not told their specific roles until Night 1 (aside from roles that can use their powers during the day)?

Solitayre
11-30-2012, 09:11 PM
What if the Town players are not told their specific roles until Night 1 (aside from roles that can use their powers during the day)?

Then the mass-claim gets moved to day 2.

ais523
12-01-2012, 08:13 AM
I'm a little concerned about the balance of 12:5:1 just numerically. With a town that powerful you might be able to get away with it, but it's sufficiently out from the standard that I'm having trouble getting my head around it. I'm guessing that the Mafia have the advantage anyway, though.

Solitayre
12-01-2012, 03:30 PM
I don't think this ruleset can be balanced. Letting the mafia kill anyone who claims with impunity just swings the pendulum back in the other direction. If you have to come up with some specific rule to prevent an apparent loophole from being abused, it's a sign that the ruleset is probably inherently inbalanced.

Guild
12-01-2012, 08:33 PM
Letting the mafia kill any people who claim their true role could be an interesting mechanic. Will the mafia leave you alive to discredit you? Muhahaha.

breakman
12-06-2012, 11:14 AM
In a game where several players have a few different types of nightkill powers (maybe...two or three kinds of nightkills, with three players having each kind), which would be a better way to balance the usefulness of the different powers:


a) Different cooldown lengths for each type of kill?

or

b) Assign HP to players, and have each "kill" power inflict different amounts of damage?

ais523
12-06-2012, 12:58 PM
HP-based games sometimes end up with bizarre breaking strategies.

Some combination of cooldowns and usage limits is normally the easiest way to balance a game like that. (Perhaps some players should lose their kill when the playerlist gets sufficiently small, too. Especially if they're town.)

Egarwaen
12-06-2012, 01:45 PM
(Perhaps some players should lose their kill when the playerlist gets sufficiently small, too. Especially if they're town.)

Alternatively, if you want a really bizarre rule-set revolving around everyone being powered, tie kill powers (or powers in general) to other players - if they reveal, your power deactivates... Confirming their reveal to you, but depriving you of your ability to directly influence the game-state.

Guild
12-15-2012, 03:32 PM
Micro Mafia Alpha went well, though the ruleset was town-sided according to reports. Show of hands for interest in another 9 player? I'm also down for a big game soon (maybe after Christmas?).

Gerad
12-15-2012, 03:51 PM
I'm interested in another. Need to atone for getting walloped so badly.

reibeatall
12-15-2012, 04:37 PM
I am also interested.

Falselogic
12-15-2012, 05:32 PM
Put me as a maybe?

Destil
12-15-2012, 06:30 PM
I'm down for micro, though a big game should wait until after New Years, I'd think.

Solitayre
12-15-2012, 08:22 PM
I'm in.

Guild
12-15-2012, 10:15 PM
Well if Micro Mafia Beta (http://www.talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=13714) doesn't fill it doesn't fill, I say.

Also someone else could run it if they wanted. Or I could. Either way!

Torgo
12-16-2012, 02:51 AM
I'll play again. I like the cavalcade of nonsense of our big games as much as the next guy, but man if that wasn't fun.

Yimothy
12-20-2012, 06:02 PM
Is there a micromafia champagne room?

Guild
12-20-2012, 07:59 PM
Is there a micromafia champagne room?

Huh. Good idea. PM me for the link.

WormRider
12-21-2012, 05:43 PM
ROAR!

(Oh. And happy holiday. )

Dizzy
12-21-2012, 05:48 PM
I invented the champagne room.

Guild
12-22-2012, 11:01 AM
I invented the champagne room.

http://www.askthemotherboard.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/chocolate_chip_cookie.jpg

Brickroad
01-03-2013, 12:44 AM
So are we ready for a real, balls-to-the-wall, no-holds-barred, fuck-off-and-thank-you Mafia game again? Because I could kind of go for one.

I propose a barebones game to ease us back into it. Anyone feel like running?

Eddie
01-03-2013, 01:15 AM
I don't mind trying to run one, but how vanilla are we talking about, and how many players?

I've been reading a few of the tested game setups at a mafia wiki; they range from really basic (3 mafia, 9 town, 1 angel, 1 jailkeeper (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Near-Vanilla)) to pretty complex setup but relatively easy play (everyone - mafia and town alike - bid on their roles before the game starts and then play as normal from there (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Pick_Your_Power_X/Y))

For a larger game (20?) I guess you'd find about a 5 mafia / 14 town / 1 inspector kind of ratio. Maybe to keep it moving, have short days and nights (48/24?) or long days but no night w/ mafia "day chat" (i.e. 72 hours)?

Here's another alternative I'll pitch: Dirty Dancing Mafia. Everyone's plain vanilla or mafia, with one exception: everyone has a "lover" that they can day/night chat with. But while townie-townie parings are most likely, mafia-townie parings exist too! How much can you trust your "partner"?

- Eddie

Brickroad
01-03-2013, 01:27 AM
(3 mafia, 9 town, 1 angel, 1 jailkeeper (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Near-Vanilla))

Sounds good hoss, pitch that shit up.

McClain
01-03-2013, 08:17 AM
I'll probably sign up because damn it has been a while, but I'm saying now, on record, way before it starts, that I probably won't be normal lead-the-post-count McClain. My reading list for classes next semester is HUGE!

So don't be dicks and kill me for being quiet, is what I'm saying :)

Mogri
01-03-2013, 09:06 AM
Sounds good hoss, pitch that shit up.

This is kind of a lot like what Guild is running right now (don't shoot me for posting in meta plzthx).

Falselogic
01-03-2013, 09:56 AM
This is kind of a lot like what Guild is running right now (don't shoot me for posting in meta plzthx).

Cheater!

Egarwaen
01-03-2013, 11:22 AM
Here's another alternative I'll pitch: Dirty Dancing Mafia. Everyone's plain vanilla or mafia, with one exception: everyone has a "lover" that they can day/night chat with. But while townie-townie parings are most likely, mafia-townie parings exist too! How much can you trust your "partner"?

This sounds crazy fun and I would be so down with playing it you have no idea.

Falselogic
01-03-2013, 11:23 AM
This sounds crazy fun and I would be so down with playing it you have no idea.

This sounds amazing

Eddie
01-03-2013, 11:23 AM
Eddie proudly presents...

Mafia 22: Frostbite

You don't know what caused your the plane to careen into the frozen wasteland known as Siberia - the pilot and co-pilot did not survive the crash - but the situation before you is grim. You and fourteen other individuals survived, but between the biting cold, dwindling food, and frequent spats between your fellow survivors, you're not sure if everyone can keep it together until help arrives.

While tragedy can bring out the best in people, sometimes it can also bring out the worst. The foul temperament of your fifth night turns into stark horror in the morning: Eddie, a sweet fellow from Canada, is found strangled in the morning, killed in his sleep. It appears that one - perhaps more - have decided that your environment's brutal nature will take its course too slowly...

You have two objectives: get help, and survive. You and the remaining thirteen survivors make a pact: every day, you will send out one survivor into the Siberian taiga to "find help". Everyone understands what this really means, for the more that stay, the more food needed (and food is in short supply).

The best estimates around camp is that there is enough food to last for a few more days, and then? Then you put your hope in miracles.

The roles:

Role PM's

Survivor (Vanilla Townie)

You're sore, weary, and starving but you're a fighter. You're not giving up until your body gives up. You feel uneasy about what is sure to come - more deaths, followed by no food - but hope is the greatest of human emotions, and it's the only thing you have.

Too bad you can't fill your stomach on it.

Abilities:

Your weapon is your vote, you have no night actions. During the day, you can elect one player to head out into the wild, looking for help. You pretend otherwise, but understand that this action is akin to a death sentence: the person is more likely to die alone than find rescue.

Win condition:

You win when all threats have been eliminated or removed from your camp.


Watchman (Angel/Town Doctor)

A decision is made early, by a secret draw, to have someone watch over the food to make sure no animals - or people - take more than their share. You quickly discover that this job is boring, so you take the time to observe your fellow passengers. If you see anything suspicious, you've got an whistle to make a large noise to deter any deadly activity.

If that murder wasn't a one-of, you might be the brightest hope for survival.

Abilities:

Each night phase, you may protect one player in the game from being nightkilled. You may not protect yourself. A successful protection will announced in the thread at the start of the day by noting that no one was nightkilled. Who was protected (and who protected who) will not be announced.


Win condition:

You win when all threats have been eliminated or removed from your camp.


Protector (Town Jailkeeper)

Once the first strangled body is found, a decision is made to set up a make-shift jail to house people. Using the wreckage of the plane cockpit, you secretly submit the name of one of your fellow survivors to spend the night inside. You are the only individual who has the "key" to get inside.

It's funny really; the "jail" is probably the safest place to spend the night...

Abilities:

Each night phase, you may target one player in the game, whom you will protect from the nightkill. However, you may not choose yourself, and should you choose the Watchman (Town Doctor) you will stop their ability to keep an eye on someone (i.e. roleblock).

A successful protection will announced in the thread at the start of the day by noting that no one was nightkilled. Who was protected (and who protected who) will not be announced.

Win condition:

You win when all threats have been eliminated or removed from your camp.


Cannibal (Mafia)

You know how much trouble everyone's in. You're just one of the few people with the brass - and initiative - to do something about it. Just like nature, only the most adaptable survive. You understand the horror of what you'll be doing, but you rationalize that unless you and your partners do this, no one will survive.

And besides, you look on the bright side: this climate should keep all of the "food" from spoiling quickly...

You are a Cannibal, along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].

Abilities:

Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional nightkill.

Win condition:

You win when your numbers are greater or equal to the numbers of the remaining survivors (i.e. non-cannibals). Once that occurs, you'll have the numbers to attack without the need for secrecy.



Voting
Players may vote for a player they wish to "send for help" (i.e. lynch) by making a bold faced declaration such as this one:

I vote for Eddie

At the end of the Day Phase, the player with the most votes will be cast away from the group, almost assuredly dying alone and broken in the harsh Siberian environment.

Ties will be broken by a coinflip.

Additional rules:


Standard mafia rules apply; no editing post, no meta posts in the main mafia thread, no communication outside of the thread or mafia QuickTopic, no posting after the day ends etc.
Days Phases are 72 hours, Night Phases are 48 hours. Once day 4 hits, Players may PM the moderator to shorten the cycle to 48 hour days and 24 hour nights. If 75% of the players and all remaining mafia agree, then starting with the next cycle there will be reduced hours.
Don't sign up unless you're willing to commit. There will be no replacements once the game starts; if you don't post at all during the day phase, you'll be discovered dead at the end of it. In such an event, there will be no lynch.
To be clear, the order of night actions is Protector -> Watchman-> Cannibal night-kill.
Players will learn the identity of a person on a successful "lynch"/nightkill, but protections (via either the Watchman or Protector) will not reveal who was targeted/protected.
Mafia do not have a daychat, only a nightchat.


How's that look?

- Eddie

Egarwaen
01-03-2013, 11:35 AM
How's that look?

It lacks the bad-apple that my father forbids me to see.

But I suppose it's okay.

Mogri
01-03-2013, 11:58 AM
I'm not sure how the win conditions really work thematically, but it looks fine mechanically.

Torgo
01-03-2013, 12:03 PM
I would play Dirty Dancing Mafia so fast.

Don't sign up unless you're willing to commit. There will be no replacements once the game starts; if you don't post at all during the day phase, you'll be discovered dead at the end of it. In such an event, there will be no lynch.
You're my hero, Eddie.

Falselogic
01-03-2013, 12:11 PM
It doesnt look as good or as fun as Dirty Dancing. Also, I don't know why we theme these things so heavily. Outside of the flavor text it forces the GMs to write no one ever RPs these things (AFAIHS)

Adam
01-03-2013, 12:15 PM
It doesnt look as good or as fun as Dirty Dancing. Also, I don't know why we theme these things so heavily. Outside of the flavor text it forces the GMs to write no one ever RPs these things (AFAIHS)

I had the most fun ever during Homestuck Mafia.

Brickroad
01-03-2013, 12:15 PM
I roleplayed in Nich's Homestuck game and in poet's Pony game! And a bunch of people got into character for The Organization, which was cool to see.

McClain
01-03-2013, 12:17 PM
I role played the shit out of Problem Sleuth mafia, and I tend to at least start in character. I'm always in favor of more people RPing

Mogri
01-03-2013, 12:20 PM
Problem Sleuth had a lot of roleplaying, if posting in second person counts as roleplaying.

Falselogic
01-03-2013, 12:23 PM
I think I played the Homestuck game (trolls, right?) I don't recall much RPing...

Destil
01-03-2013, 12:25 PM
Lots of people got into role-playing during M5 (planescape mafia) as well.