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Torgo
10-30-2013, 10:48 AM
The game is afoot! (http://www.talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=14998)

A champagne room is available for any spectators so inclined. Just leave a note here or give me a holler.

Egarwaen
10-30-2013, 10:53 AM
The game is afoot! (http://www.talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=14998)

A champagne room is available for any spectators so inclined. Just leave a note here or give me a holler.

Pip pip cheerio champagne ho?

Teaspoon
10-30-2013, 12:22 PM
I'll have a ticket, please.

JohnB
10-30-2013, 03:02 PM
The game is afoot! (http://www.talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=14998)

A champagne room is available for any spectators so inclined. Just leave a note here or give me a holler.

invite please

Eden
10-30-2013, 04:26 PM
pre-emptive invite, disregard if for some reason I'm not dead

Yimothy
10-30-2013, 09:39 PM
Champagne please.

Umby
11-01-2013, 08:13 AM
Gimme some champagne.

Eden
11-07-2013, 09:33 AM
pre-emptive invite, disregard if for some reason I'm not dead
turns out I was only off by about a week. hit me!

Torgo
11-07-2013, 09:49 AM
turns out I was only off by about a week. hit me!
Need I remind you that there is a revival role in the game. There will be no invites for players until that role has been verified as either dead or not present, and if present, after their power is used.

Guild
11-07-2013, 01:01 PM
Ohhh, he told you!

Eden
11-07-2013, 03:02 PM
Need I remind you that there is a revival role in the game. There will be no invites for players until that role has been verified as either dead or not present, and if present, after their power is used.
tl;dr

Guild
11-10-2013, 10:23 PM
OK I had a weird idea for a game and I wanted to get my thoughts down somewhere real quick, so here goes.

Every day players and mafia gain a number of votes. They can cast these votes for whomever they want and the votes stick to the victim all day. There's no 'unvoting' that goes on. At nightfall, the player with the most votes stuck to them dies. Town get 3 votes per day and Mafia get 4 per day.

Now, there are powers available in exchange for votes. Some powers can be bid upon (highest bidder is rolled off from matched bids) and others purchased outright ala Friday's games. Finally, votes can be invested into gaining more votes the following round via a mechanic called a voting tree. Planting a vote generates 2 votes the next day. Planting 2 votes generates 5 votes the next day. Planting 3 votes generates 8 votes the next day. No more than 3 votes can be planted by players, but Mafia can also plant 4 votes and gain 11 the next day.

One of the powers makes the moderator reveal how many votes a player has. Another causes a votecount to see how many votes are actually on players (in case a player with only 3 votes available votes six times for a player to mask how many votes they have/have used). Votes can be made anonymously at a cost of 2 votes per vote. Another power lets you see how many votes a player has spent on a particular past night or day, etc.

Just an idea I had. I was going to call it something not lame but I couldn't think of anything, so I'll call it Vote Economy Mafia.

Falselogic
12-05-2013, 04:09 PM
What we playing next?

Gerad
12-05-2013, 04:17 PM
I'll repitch mine from last time.

Falselogic
12-05-2013, 04:48 PM
I'm also going to advocate for games that have some sort of participation clause.

IRL games of mafia do not allow for nonparticipation. You may not say anything but being in a room full of people and them grilling you allows for all sorts of non verbal communication and what not. An internet game doesn't allow for this.

A non participating player in these games hurts those on their team who are playing the game and hurts the entire game.

Rufferto
12-05-2013, 05:11 PM
I have a pitch that should somewhat circumvent silent players. However, I'm not entirely sure how to run it because I am terrible with flavor. Anyway, here's the pitch:

Pipe Mafia

15 players (or more! or less!)

Rules

48/24 hour day/night cycles. This game is designed to be quick.
It also doesn't penalize the town for quiet players, considering as much of it is played at night as it is in the day.

Each day, the players decide who to designate as town vigilante. The town vigilante is given one night kill, to use as they see fit. Mafia players can also be designated town vigilante.
If a player receives a majority of votes, then the day ends.
For 15 players, 8 votes are needed to end the day.
For 14 players, 8 votes are needed to end the day.
For 13 players, 7 votes are needed to end the day.
...
For 3 players, 2 votes are needed to end the day.
These vigilante powers can be used the same night they were acquired, and they can also be stockpiled.
(IE If a player is voted for more than once, and they did not use their previous night kill, they gain an additional night kill.)
If a mafia player is nominated as vigilante, their nightkill is added to the mafia stockpile.

Roles

10 pipes

These players have the ability to pipe: They set a pipe between two target players.
Any action that would affect one player instead affects the other player at the end of the pipe. This ability chains.
Say four different players placed their pipes on the doctor. For each pipe, the other end would be directed at a mafia player.
If the mafia were to target the doctor, then this one night kill would kill all of the mafia players.
The piping ability has a cooldown of one day/night. If someone uses it night one, the earliest they could reuse this ability is night three.

3 mafia

The mafia are given a pool of ten total night kills.
Each mafia member can use a night kill on the same night.
This means there can be three total night kills in one day.
Instead of using a night kill, a mafia member can also elect to pipe. The mafia are not restrained by the piping cooldown.
Mafia may also elect to do nothing.

1 doctor

Protects one player from night kills.

1 control box

Control boxes are given the ability to chat with other players. They may choose one player to chat with per night.
The following morning, a chat can be accessed by both players. Chats are active day and night. These chats only end upon death of a player.

Explanation of powers

All piping results from the previous night are revealed during the opening of the day.

A more thorough example of piping: there are five players, a,b,c,d,e.

a puts a pipe between b and c.
b puts a pipe between c and d.
c puts a pipe between d and e.
d puts a pipe between d and a.

If the mafia target a, then b and e would die.
If the mafia target b, then a and e would die.
If the mafia target c, then a, b, and e would die.
If the mafia target d, then a, b, and e would die.
If the mafia target e, then a and b would die.


Basically, the end points of the pipe determine who will get hit.

Next rule: having two pipes on the same two targets cancels out the pipes.

Taking the example above:

a puts a pipe between b and c.
b puts a pipe between c and d.
c puts a pipe between d and e.
d puts a pipe between d and a.
e puts a pipe between d and e.


If the mafia target a, then b would die.
If the mafia target b, then a would die.
If the mafia target c, then a and b would die.
If the mafia target d, then a and b would die.
If the mafia target e, then e would die.


The doctor's ability is given precedence over night kills. This ability stacks through pipes in the same way night kills do.


Order of Operations
Pipes
Doctor
Night kills
Night chat

Roles are revealed upon death.
Town wins if the mafia are all dead.
Mafia win if they kill all town players.

Alternatively, you can replace the control box with an additional mafia member, and give everyone the ability to send PMs/Set up quicktopics to communicate in private.



The more I ruminate on it, the more I think that the individual quicktopics would work better than having a control box player. The only problem is it would probably be a PITA to set up.

Solitayre
12-05-2013, 05:13 PM
I didn't understand a word of that.

Rufferto
12-05-2013, 05:16 PM
Basically, everyone has the power to go

"Hey, don't target this guy. Target THAT guy."

Except it also works in reverse.

Destil
12-05-2013, 05:31 PM
That's unplayable without a GUI, I think.

Destil
12-05-2013, 06:41 PM
That's unplayable without two GUIs, an AI and a paradigm shift.

PrivateJoker
12-05-2013, 06:45 PM
I saw one game get run where a role was invented called "the chatterbox". The role was a posting restriction, that required the player to be in the top 5 posters of the thread, or they would die at the end of the day. It actually worked fine.

Then the next game he ran, it was a closed setup where people didn't know what roles where in the game. He gave EVERYONE that role, and hilarity ensued.

Solitayre
12-05-2013, 06:50 PM
I actually think I'd enjoy a "just for laughs" game where everyone had completely ridiculous roles.

WormRider
12-05-2013, 06:53 PM
I actually think I'd enjoy a "just for laughs" game where everyone had completely ridiculous roles.

We tried to do that with M27 but you all took it seriously!

dtsund
12-05-2013, 06:58 PM
I actually think I'd enjoy a "just for laughs" game where everyone had completely ridiculous roles.

We did that in M13, and Geneticist was never heard from again!

Solitayre
12-05-2013, 07:09 PM
We did that in M13, and Geneticist was never heard from again!

Hey, I'm not the one who gave poetfox the "Summon Weeping Angels" power. We all said not to blink!

gahitsu
12-05-2013, 07:45 PM
Repitching Werepire (http://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1646423&postcount=7301).

aturtledoesbite
12-05-2013, 10:52 PM
I didn't understand a word of that.

I understood it up until the examples.

And...for once, I think Guild actually has a good setup if we want to be silly.

I like it.

Rufferto
12-05-2013, 11:12 PM
Considering the fact that no one understands my pitch, I'll retract it.






...I never was good at explaining things.

aturtledoesbite
12-05-2013, 11:22 PM
Considering the fact that no one understands my pitch, I'll retract it.






...I never was good at explaining things.

I think you just screwed up the examples. Let me try.

a puts a pipe between b and c.
b puts a pipe between c and d.
c puts a pipe between d and e.
d puts a pipe between d and a.

So, it should look something like the following, correct?:
b-c-d-e
|
a
For a given person targeted with an action, they don't get hit, but everyone immediately connected does? In which case, attempting to nightkill D would kill C, E, and A.

Rufferto
12-06-2013, 01:08 AM
I think you just screwed up the examples. Let me try.



So, it should look something like the following, correct?:
b-c-d-e
|
a
For a given person targeted with an action, they don't get hit, but everyone immediately connected does? In which case, attempting to nightkill D would kill C, E, and A.

I made this pitch a while ago, and your explanation is one of the ideas I considered implementing. In fact, I thought this was how I pitched it, but looking over my logic, it seems that, no, I actually settled on a different method.

Your graph is indeed correct. But take another look: if someone targets d, the kill spreads out not to the players immediately connected, but to the players at the end of the connection. You can see it in the example you've given:

d goes to c, c goes to b.
d goes to e.
d goes to a.

Therefore a, b, and e dies.

However, I'm not sure why I ended up picking this method. It doesn't account for cycles in the pipes, and it's also bound to kill half of the players on day one alone. So this pitch is probably better off retracted, until I either simplify it, or figure out what the hell I was thinking when I made this pitch.

Eden
12-06-2013, 01:09 AM
If you repitch it then it must be titled "M<##>: Super Mafia Bros"

Rufferto
12-06-2013, 01:10 AM
Alright, but you have to write the flavor

Eden
12-06-2013, 01:11 AM
Happily!

Raven
12-06-2013, 05:19 AM
Pipe Mafia

15 players (or more! or less!)

Rules

48/24 hour day/night cycles. This game is designed to be quick.
It also doesn't penalize the town for quiet players, considering as much of it is played at night as it is in the day.

Each day, the players decide who to designate as town vigilante. The town vigilante is given one night kill, to use as they see fit. Mafia players can also be designated town vigilante.
If a player receives a majority of votes, then the day ends.
For 15 players, 8 votes are needed to end the day.
For 14 players, 8 votes are needed to end the day.
For 13 players, 7 votes are needed to end the day.
...
For 3 players, 2 votes are needed to end the day.
These vigilante powers can be used the same night they were acquired, and they can also be stockpiled.
(IE If a player is voted for more than once, and they did not use their previous night kill, they gain an additional night kill.)
If a mafia player is nominated as vigilante, their nightkill is added to the mafia stockpile.

I actually find this part to be really interesting. Do we still get to vote for a lynch, or that Vigilante election is the only voting process in the Day?

That pipe thing though...yeah, just ditch it. I think I got it, but I honestly don't see any significant value from that mechanic, either as investigative tool/entertainment value, which could outweigh its possibility to incite a game-crippling chain reaction.

PrivateJoker
12-06-2013, 05:57 AM
The one vigilante thing is a pretty common alternative setup called "Kingmaker". One townie decides who to kill every day, and the mafia still gets their kill every night.

The way I've seen it is that there's one townie who is designated "The Kingmaker", and he chooses who is "King" by PM. Nobody knows who the Kingmaker is, and if he dies, it's randomly assigned to another townie. This all gets done at night, so at the begining of the day, the King is announced, and the town spends the day appealing to the King on who to kill.

The reason it gets run this way, instead of the whole town voting for the King, is because it would degenerate into the King being chosen based on who he says he's going to kill, so it's not actually that different from just voting for who to lynch.

It works out ok, because even if the Kingmaker chooses members of the Mafia to be King, the Town still has the ability to analyze their actions, and figure out where they stand. In fact, choosing scumreads for King is a pretty viable strategy, because it puts them in the spotlight, and forces them to take an action that they are accountable for. Or they could choose a townread, and trust that they take the right action. Either way, you're putting people in the spotlight, and making them accountable, and easier to read. It's a pretty good setup.

Mogri
12-06-2013, 11:09 AM
I actually think I'd enjoy a "just for laughs" game where everyone had completely ridiculous roles.

I'd be happy to play or run one of these (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bastard_mod).

aturtledoesbite
12-06-2013, 11:18 AM
I'd be happy to play or run one of these (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bastard_mod).

I think Guild's setup would technically qualify for this through the victory conditions and death triggers.

my gods i'm actually recommending we use guild's game what am i doing

breakman
12-06-2013, 11:41 AM
The next game should be vanilla, because I would like to sit out the next game.

Mogri
12-06-2013, 11:49 AM
The next game should be vanilla, because I would like to sit out the next game.

If you're going to sit out, then what does it matter?

breakman
12-06-2013, 11:55 AM
Because if it's a game that I really want to play, then I'll probably sign up anyway.

Egarwaen
12-06-2013, 12:01 PM
Repitching Werepire (http://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1646423&postcount=7301).

While I think this is a solid rule-set, I'd like some clarifications:

As soon as enough votes are reached, the kill is done. So be careful voting, as wolves or vampires can hop on quickly to secure a lynch. However, I will not lynch a player who has not had a chance to log on and defend himself. There is not hard and fast rule for this, as player's schedules tend to vary. Rest assured, however, you will not be lynched "in your sleep" before you have had a chance to post and defend yourself. (*BrontoMafia goes by majority lynch, I'm willing to change this to a time limit, however.)

Please provide a solid time-limit here; this is currently "the lynch happens when the GM feels like killing you", which is not fair to any of the factions in play. I'd recommend some clear guideline like: "A target who has had over 50% of total eligible votes for the past 24 hours will be killed the next time the GM posts. The GM posts between...". So if they dip below 50% at any point, the clock resets, and there's a clear "death line", with the GM's availability explicitly spelled out.

AH: Bids take place that day or that night, in private to me in PM. Items take effect as soon as bought.

Please clarify when auctions resolve.

The werewolf team needs a note like the vampire team clarifying that they can only perform one action per night or, at the very least, clarifying how they work.

I think your Weretiger is way too weak. He gets one kill, and has three people who can find him? Also, how many of the "Wolf" rules apply to him?

Rufferto
12-06-2013, 12:14 PM
I actually find this part to be really interesting. Do we still get to vote for a lynch, or that Vigilante election is the only voting process in the Day?

That pipe thing though...yeah, just ditch it. I think I got it, but I honestly don't see any significant value from that mechanic, either as investigative tool/entertainment value, which could outweigh its possibility to incite a game-crippling chain reaction.

Well, I mean, the core conceit of the pitch is the piping ability. I could take it out, but it'd be a completely different game. Since I'm not going to run it, I might as well explain the methodology behind the idea.

How it's supposed to work is that players are supposed to vote for the vigilante who they think would be most willing to listen to them. (Voting for the player who will kill your desired target doesn't necessarily work in this game, because the targeted player will simply redirect the kill to someone else.) The nightchats are set in place so that the vigilante can utilize the other players' pipes to kill multiple targets of their choosing. Obviously, this can and will backfire. The point of revealing the previous day's results is so that the players can hold each other accountable for their actions, to some extent.

I actually really like that this game can potentially end on day one, because it should theoretically make people consider their choices, or whether they should use their power at all.

Guild
12-06-2013, 01:56 PM
Addendum: The idea of the Star Wars variant games is to simplify ROLE PM's down to just Town or Mafia and make Powers earned through a mixture of intelligent game play and chance.

Deleted for being dumb.

Mogri
12-06-2013, 02:36 PM
Guild, are you really pitching three different games here?

Guild
12-06-2013, 02:49 PM
Not to run. Just to

I'm just playing around here. Why am I ansering questions here.

Who are you?! Are you the mafia police?!

Guild
12-06-2013, 03:26 PM
I'll run any of the 3 (lol) if people want. I'd also prefer to just play.

Solitayre
12-06-2013, 03:40 PM
Considering pitching the Succession II. I think I want to remove the Oni though. Considering that Secret bosses killing themselves is actually becoming a thing, I think maybe people don't enjoy being them.

Gerad
12-06-2013, 03:45 PM
Considering pitching the Succession II. I think I want to remove the Oni though. Considering that Secret bosses killing themselves is actually becoming a thing, I think maybe people don't enjoy being them.

I'd be excited for the pitch. My vote would be that secret bosses have been killing themselves because they've found themselves in situations where they deemed it impossible to win. I think if you found a way to make the Oni have a better chance of winning (maybe make him un-inspectable and find some way to prevent others from clearing themselves of being the Oni), it would be another story.

Solitayre
12-06-2013, 03:48 PM
The last version of the pitch I had allowed the Oni to steal roles from other people, but it was really, really complicated.

Destil
12-06-2013, 03:53 PM
Huh, I thought that version wasn't complicated enough.

aturtledoesbite
12-06-2013, 03:55 PM
Huh, I thought that version wasn't complicated enough.

You're a robot. There's not much we can come up with that you would deem "complicated".

Destil
12-06-2013, 03:56 PM
First of all, that totally does not compute.

Solitayre
12-06-2013, 04:00 PM
What I really think would be interesting would be to have the Oni be a player outside of the game with no knowledge of the game state outside of what he can read in the thread, who can't win or lose but just has a certain set of powers he can use to mess with players at his whims. You know, like the devil.

That probably wouldn't appeal to everyone, but I can think of half a dozen players for whom chaos is its own reward, so who knows.

dtsund
12-06-2013, 04:05 PM
Perhaps there could be a game with no intrinsic power roles, with such an Oni-like outside player who can assign one power role per day to whatever player he wants. The Oni wins if he succeeds in reducing the game to fewer than X players for some value of X (as such, he wants the game to be as close as possible).

Solitayre
12-06-2013, 04:06 PM
That could work for the Oni, actually, he thrives on causing chaos and war.

Eden
12-06-2013, 04:08 PM
What I really think would be interesting would be to have the Oni be a player outside of the game with no knowledge of the game state outside of what he can read in the thread, who can't win or lose but just has a certain set of powers he can use to mess with players at his whims. You know, like the devil.

That probably wouldn't appeal to everyone, but I can think of half a dozen players for whom chaos is its own reward, so who knows.
So you want to have a guy whose entire role in the game is to troll the shit out of it?

Count me in.

Destil
12-06-2013, 04:10 PM
That sounds really good. You could even add in like some sort of night audience with the Oni where some number of players are invited and try to eeek out information or bargain for powers or something. Or possibly a witch role that wins with the Oni and is not part of the succession?

Solitayre
12-06-2013, 04:12 PM
The problem with dtsund's idea is past a certain point the game could become unwinnable for both factions, as there'd be no way to actually eliminate the Oni from play.

Egarwaen
12-06-2013, 04:14 PM
Considering pitching the Succession II. I think I want to remove the Oni though. Considering that Secret bosses killing themselves is actually becoming a thing, I think maybe people don't enjoy being them.

I think part of it is that, being by yourself, you get a much worse picture of your circumstances than you do with a team. We see this fairly often with "the last Mafioso" as well; they tend to get sloppy and start making easy mistakes, because they think they've already lost. Even if you're just an ordinary town player, you can still see people who are potentially on your side working - or at least pretending to work - towards the same end. As the Secret Boss, you can't see anyone who's helping you, which means that tiny setbacks tend to cause you to give up.

Even two secret bosses - as in The Organization II - seems to cause this outcome!

dtsund
12-06-2013, 04:18 PM
The problem with dtsund's idea is past a certain point the game could become unwinnable for both factions, as there'd be no way to actually eliminate the Oni from play.

I didn't mean the Oni wins to the exclusion of the other factions, just that he wins in addition to Town or Mafia.

Regarding Secret Bosses: This is kind of why I made the possible Secret Bosses in MafiaCON so very powerful.

Solitayre
12-06-2013, 04:19 PM
I didn't mean the Oni wins to the exclusion of the other factions, just that he wins in addition to Town or Mafia.



Ah, well, that's a possibility.

Gerad
12-06-2013, 04:22 PM
The problem with dtsund's idea is past a certain point the game could become unwinnable for both factions, as there'd be no way to actually eliminate the Oni from play.

You'd probably have to make the Oni win or lose separately from the other factions. So one of the town/mafia win, the other loses, and the Oni either wins or loses.

EDIT: Too late, sorry.

PrivateJoker
12-06-2013, 04:25 PM
I think part of it is that, being by yourself, you get a much worse picture of your circumstances than you do with a team. We see this fairly often with "the last Mafioso" as well; they tend to get sloppy and start making easy mistakes, because they think they've already lost. Even if you're just an ordinary town player, you can still see people who are potentially on your side working - or at least pretending to work - towards the same end. As the Secret Boss, you can't see anyone who's helping you, which means that tiny setbacks tend to cause you to give up.

Even two secret bosses - as in The Organization II - seems to cause this outcome!

The reality is that single man factions are incredibly strong roles, because they don't have connections to their teammates for people to find. All you have to do is try to be a good townie, and whether you succeed or fail at finding mafia, you progress as long as you don't die.

Rufferto
12-06-2013, 04:29 PM
Yep, I agree with Joker. Especially in regards to the weretiger role in Brontomafia, the fact is that no team has any reason to kill the weretiger, even after the weretiger is outed. Since the weretiger only wins when a team triggers their win condition, the town has no incentive to waste their lynch on the weretiger, because they know the vampires/werewolves will be forced to kill him eventually. Likewise, the vampires and werewolves have no incentive to kill him unless they're already close to victory.

Solitayre
12-06-2013, 04:36 PM
Okay, so here's what I'm leaning towards with the Oni.

The Oni is a player in the thread with multiple powers. So long as he is alive, he can choose whichever faction he pleases to count towards the win condition of.

The Oni is not eliminated from the game if he dies, but may no longer post in the thread.

At night, the Oni may use one of the following powers, whether he is alive or not.

-Protect a player of his choice from a nightkill, including himself.

-Choose a player of his choice to have a nightchat with, where he may freely bargain for and with any information he has.

-Scan a player of his choice, revealing complete information on the target.

-Grant a player of his choice x2 voting power for the next day phase. He may not give this power to himself.

-Once per game, he may bargain to kill a player with another player he is having a nightchat with. The kill is successful only if both parties agree to the kill.

-the Oni wins if fewer than X players remain in the game. (Aside from himself.)

How does that sound? Interesting?

Egarwaen
12-06-2013, 04:40 PM
The reality is that single man factions are incredibly strong roles, because they don't have connections to their teammates for people to find. All you have to do is try to be a good townie, and whether you succeed or fail at finding mafia, you progress as long as you don't die.

Right; I totally agree with you. I get why Mogri suicided last game, but he was being way too generous; he'd probably have survived killing FL, particularly if he took out a controversial player the next night. But he felt like he was in a bind and didn't have the abilities he needed to get out, so he suicided. This is why a common philosophy in game design is to make abilities that feel overpowered, while trying to make them actually balanced. If you've got a bunch of tools that you look at and go "Wow, that kicks ass!" you're going to remain engaged with the game. If your reaction to your abilities is "Meh, weaksauce!" then it doesn't matter how powerful they are or how good your position is, you're going to quit.

Because of that, I'm skeptical about Secret Boss roles that limit the Boss's total number of kills per game. If the Boss has a limited kill stock, there needs to be a way to increase it that clearly benefits him. This was one of the problems with the Oni, I think - while the actual risk was low, it felt like the only way for the Oni to affect the game was to put himself on the chopping block.

breakman
12-06-2013, 04:48 PM
I think part of it is that, being by yourself, you get a much worse picture of your circumstances than you do with a team. We see this fairly often with "the last Mafioso" as well; they tend to get sloppy and start making easy mistakes, because they think they've already lost. Even if you're just an ordinary town player, you can still see people who are potentially on your side working - or at least pretending to work - towards the same end. As the Secret Boss, you can't see anyone who's helping you, which means that tiny setbacks tend to cause you to give up.

Even two secret bosses - as in The Organization II - seems to cause this outcome!

I don't think that's true of The Organization 2. We made a poor decision based on an incorrect assumption about the rules.

Falselogic
12-06-2013, 05:27 PM
Someone pitch a new Thing game!

Mogri
12-06-2013, 05:30 PM
Right; I totally agree with you. I get why Mogri suicided last game, but he was being way too generous; he'd probably have survived killing FL, particularly if he took out a controversial player the next night.

The only reason this is even possibly true is that FL spaced on his night action. I was dead and buried if I'd been silenced, and FL had declared intent to silence me.

Egarwaen
12-06-2013, 05:39 PM
The only reason this is even possibly true is that FL spaced on his night action. I was dead and buried if I'd been silenced, and FL had declared intent to silence me.

Sure, and then you kill FL, spin enough to get through the next day, and then kill someone nice and controversial.

And before you say "But if I'd killed FL they'd have killed me for sure!" no they wouldn't. Behavior isn't that predictable in mafia games. The mafia were apparently thinking of killing dtsund, for example. Even though he's the perfect townie for them to leave alive and they had multiple ways to shut down any powers he might've had.

PrivateJoker
12-06-2013, 05:44 PM
What if you had killed him before he could silence you? Was there some kind of "Night Action Resolution Order", or does everything happen at once?

Egarwaen
12-06-2013, 06:12 PM
What if you had killed him before he could silence you? Was there some kind of "Night Action Resolution Order", or does everything happen at once?

This was asked; had Mogri killed FL, that would have resolved before the silence.

aturtledoesbite
12-06-2013, 06:23 PM
This was asked; had Mogri killed FL, that would have resolved before the silence.

Of course, not that Mogri could have known this.

Mogri
12-06-2013, 06:33 PM
Of course, not that Mogri could have known this.

Oh, funny thing about that -- I did ask, but I misunderstood the answer.

Whee!

breakman
12-06-2013, 07:47 PM
I'm going to be pitching The Organization III as soon as I work out some of the details, fwiw.

Dang it, that's exactly what I don't want. Which is to say, it's exactly what I do want. Whatever. I'll definitely play if that's the game.

And before you say "But if I'd killed FL they'd have killed me for sure!" no they wouldn't. Behavior isn't that predictable in mafia games. The mafia were apparently thinking of killing dtsund, for example. Even though he's the perfect townie for them to leave alive and they had multiple ways to shut down any powers he might've had.

The point of that was, having dtsund's role revealed when he was modkilled also revealed that Taeryn was the Thief (or, at least, that it was him or dtsund). No one would've known that if we could have nightkilled dtsund. I can't say how much that would have helped, but confusion was generally pretty valuable to us in this game.

PrivateJoker
12-06-2013, 08:32 PM
dtsund being modkilled will never be as useful as if he had just claimed. Like, he didn't even need to start being very active, he jsut needed to check the game ,and post one time with his claim, and you'd have gotten the same information. Though I suppose people would've questioned it all game, even though they had no real reason to.

Eddie
12-06-2013, 09:16 PM
A quick list of rules we might wish to incorporate into the OP, to be automatically implied in any future mafia games:


RULES

0. The GM of the games rules supercede these rules, if applicable.
1. You must post at least once per game 'day'.
2. No sharing role PMs, images of quicktopic chats, or anything else outside the thread.
3. Don't tag threads.
4. Don't post in the main Mafia: the Forum game thread
5. No communicating outside of the thread about the game
6. Players in the Champagne Room cannot post to the thread under any circumstances.

Failure to follow these rules are punishable, with an immediate penalty at the DMs discretion, and potential sanction following the game.

I would also propose the following

REPLACEMENT PLAYERS

It is up to the GM of a game - preferably during the pitch - to discuss whether to allow replacement players. Historically, replacement players on TT Mafia games have not been well-received by players, so being clear when you pitch the game whether replacements should be allowed is ideal, and players should do their best to remember to ask during the pitch process.

I would recommend that an ideal solution to determine whether to allow replacement players - if it has not been made clear before the game started - is to get one random town player, one random mafia player, and one random champagne room observer to silently vote on whether to allow a replacement.

PrivateJoker
12-06-2013, 09:29 PM
Why is rule #4 a thing? That doesn't make any sense as a rule, because you can easily have something you wish to contribute to the main Mafia: The Forum Game thread that doesn't have anything to do with the game you're currently in.

Rule #5 has you covered, so #4 is pointless. You may as well be telling people "don't post on talking time"

Mogri
12-06-2013, 09:37 PM
I would recommend that an ideal solution to determine whether to allow replacement players - if it has not been made clear before the game started - is to get one random town player, one random mafia player, and one random champagne room observer to silently vote on whether to allow a replacement.

I'd game this. You can claim on it. Letting everyone know that you're the randomly-selected townie allows you to be all but hard-confirmed.

aturtledoesbite
12-06-2013, 09:47 PM
dtsund being modkilled will never be as useful as if he had just claimed. Like, he didn't even need to start being very active, he jsut needed to check the game ,and post one time with his claim, and you'd have gotten the same information. Though I suppose people would've questioned it all game, even though they had no real reason to.

The problem with this, Joker, is that dtsund knew about the game. Torgo PMed him a few times, according to the champagne room. He didn't "not check the game", he refused to check the game.

Eddie
12-06-2013, 09:47 PM
Why is rule #4 a thing? That doesn't make any sense as a rule, because you can easily have something you wish to contribute to the main Mafia: The Forum Game thread that doesn't have anything to do with the game you're currently in.

Rule #5 has you covered, so #4 is pointless. You may as well be telling people "don't post on talking time"

There have been some grey areas, where players have used the main mafia thread to continue "playing" even during after the game or especially after they've been eliminated (I even admit that I did it once). Rather than trying to judge each post in the thread as a "is this player trying to still influence the game?", better just to say "no posting at all until the game is over".

And as players are not expected to shelter themselves from TT, it's important to make clear that this specific thread is off-limits, even if you honestly have no intentions on influencing a game in progress.

I'd game this. You can claim on it. Letting everyone know that you're the randomly-selected townie allows you to be all but hard-confirmed.

2. No sharing role PMs, images of quicktopic chats, or anything else outside the thread.

I'd say it'd be worth a mod-kill.

PrivateJoker
12-06-2013, 09:53 PM
There have been some grey areas, where players have used the main mafia thread to continue "playing" even during after the game or especially after they've been eliminated (I even admit that I did it once). Rather than trying to judge each post in the thread as a "is this player trying to still influence the game?", better just to say "no posting at all until the game is over".

And as players are not expected to shelter themselves from TT, it's important to make clear that this specific thread is off-limits, even if you honestly have no intentions on influencing a game in progress.



2. No sharing role PMs, images of quicktopic chats, or anything else outside the thread.

I'd say it'd be worth a mod-kill.

You're talking about cheating. I could very easily cheat by just PMing people things I wanted to say to them, and the GM would never even know about it. If you're trusting people not to cheat, then I don't see the problem. Like, I could post ANYWHERE ELSE on the forum in some vague attempt to influence the game. Disallowing people to post in a thread they may want to legitimately post in, just because you've posted there to cheat before, is kind of arbitrary.

Solitayre
12-06-2013, 10:00 PM
Why is rule #4 a thing? That doesn't make any sense as a rule, because you can easily have something you wish to contribute to the main Mafia: The Forum Game thread that doesn't have anything to do with the game you're currently in.

Rule #5 has you covered, so #4 is pointless. You may as well be telling people "don't post on talking time"

Back in the real early games, players used to congregate in the general mafia thread after the end of the game day, and essentially kept talking about the game. You can look back through this thread and you'll see it eventually if you go back far enough. As a result, GMs started disallowing people from posting in that thread during games.

It's just sort of a holdover from that era, as well as a general courtesy. It's not hard to judge whether there's any malicious intent or not, I know any time I'm GMing a game and someone posted there I never did anything harsher than ask them not to do it again.

PrivateJoker
12-06-2013, 10:02 PM
If people are talking about the game, then modkill their dumb asses. I just don't think people should get modkilled for innocently posting in this specific thread, just because one of the rules is totally dumb.

Teaspoon
12-06-2013, 10:13 PM
Somehow I get the idea there's room for a secret boss in that setup.

Falselogic
12-06-2013, 10:35 PM
I don't know that game of your's is looking pretty cool Guild

Solitayre
12-06-2013, 10:50 PM
Yeah, I think there's a good game in Guild's pitch, it probably needs a little more tweaking though. I kind of dislike votes = powers since that encourages arranging votes but it has some interesting strategic possibilities.

Guild
12-06-2013, 10:52 PM
oh i spent a ton of time on it anyway whatevs

e: This is the OLD version. See the NEW version below.

e2: ERASED the old version that was here because it's too damn outdated!

breakman
12-06-2013, 11:07 PM
I like that it adds incentive to nightkill Town players that are receiving votes, rather than leaving them to be lynched later. Seems too complicated though.

Mogri
12-07-2013, 02:30 AM
When are powers used and when do they resolve? Why does the Sith team have a lower percentage of Sith than the Jedi team? Do the Sith get a nightkill in addition to Lightning? Does a player know he was targeted by Corruption? Etc. etc. etc.

I think you have an OK concept, but you haven't thought through a lot of the implications here.

Eddie
12-07-2013, 08:05 AM
You're talking about cheating. I could very easily cheat by just PMing people things I wanted to say to them, and the GM would never even know about it. If you're trusting people not to cheat, then I don't see the problem. Like, I could post ANYWHERE ELSE on the forum in some vague attempt to influence the game. Disallowing people to post in a thread they may want to legitimately post in, just because you've posted there to cheat before, is kind of arbitrary.

But it's not always obvious. It can be innocuous-looking as post-lynch trash talk. A player might not mean anything by it, but there's still the potential to say something that someone else (intentionally or not) might interpret as an attempt to influence a game they are no longer a part of, effectively getting a word into a game that they've been eliminated from. And the difference between that one particular thread and practically every other thread in the forum is that the chances are much higher that someone who is currently playing a mafia game will read something I write in a thread dedicated to mafia games than if I post something anywhere else in the forums.

We're a community composed largely of gamers. Individuals that have studied arcane GameFAQs guides, spent hours googling strings in order to piece together scraps of information, and have spent days (sometimes weeks) going through a game with a fine-toothed comb. If there is a loophole in the words, we're going to want to try and take advantage of it. Time and time again players have tried to eek advantages out of the game, not only based on what the rules say, but what the rules do not say (I am certainly as guilty of it as anyone).

"But that's cheating!" you cry. Well that's where you and perhaps others on this forum will disagree. One man's cheating is another man's fairplay is another man's accidental mistake. Which is why you write it down so nobody does it.

I would suggest this: if you have something that is burning your ears to the point where you really can't wait to post it in the main mafia thread, then PM it to the GM and ask if he feels comfortable conveying it. Otherwise - given that we only run one mafia game at a time - you can bare the extreme inconvenience and wait until the game is over.

Destil
12-07-2013, 08:57 AM
I know I've accidentally cheated at least once, which is why I now simply respond IRL and over IM and such as "we can't talk about in progress mafia games" if a conversation even starts to breach the topic (I think you can hear this in one of Matchstick's old Podcasts even when shivam and I are on it).

There's no reason to drop that rule, you're even agreeing that you're not going to break it, so I don't see what your problem is.

JohnB
12-07-2013, 02:58 PM
holy shit!

PrivateJoker
12-07-2013, 03:18 PM
I know I've accidentally cheated at least once, which is why I now simply respond IRL and over IM and such as "we can't talk about in progress mafia games" if a conversation even starts to breach the topic (I think you can hear this in one of Matchstick's old Podcasts even when shivam and I are on it).

There's no reason to drop that rule, you're even agreeing that you're not going to break it, so I don't see what your problem is.

Not going to break what? The rule that says "don't talk about ongoing mafia games"? Yea, I'm not going ot break that rule, it's a good rule. The rule I think is dumb is "don't post in the the Mafia: The Forum Game thread", because that's not the same thing. I disagree about it not being obvious if someone is cheating. If they're talking about the currently ongoing game, it's cheating. But you can have something to say that's NOT cheating, but it's against the rules anyway because boogaloopers.

My point is that rule #4 does nothing but make it illegal to post in a specific thread, despite the thing you're trying to prevent already being covered by rule #5

Eden
12-07-2013, 04:32 PM
I have to admit I also don't understand the purpose of the ban on posting in this thread. We have a Champagne Room to allow people to hold the exact kind of discussion we wouldn't want in the main thread once they die. There's no reason for anyone to post in the main thread about an ongoing game during an ongoing game except to cheat, which we already have rules against.

The way I'd handle it is to say that the GM has the ability to modkill for posts s/he finds to be "over the line," so when you do decide to post in here you do it with the knowledge that you might be punished in-game if you say something you shouldn't. So if you know it's irrelevant to the ongoing game, fire away, and if you know it's not then hush, and if you can't tell then you should probably hush so you don't potentially break the game.

Eddie
12-07-2013, 05:10 PM
The way I'd handle it is to say that the GM has the ability to modkill for posts s/he finds to be "over the line," so when you do decide to post in here you do it with the knowledge that you might be punished in-game if you say something you shouldn't. So if you know it's irrelevant to the ongoing game, fire away, and if you know it's not then hush, and if you can't tell then you should probably hush so you don't potentially break the game.

It's not even about living players, but more frequently things that dead players say. You literally cannot modkill them.

The rule simply covers both living and dead players.

I'll put it this way: what is a good reason why Talking Time - a forum that only runs a single Mafia game at a time - should allow a general chat by players (and really, non-players) in the thread while a game is going on?

Weigh those benefits against the negatives identified. I have, and I think the minor inconvenience is worth the potentially major inconveniences that could arise.

Eden
12-07-2013, 05:52 PM
Dead players could also comment on the in-game thread; we have punishments for that too, no reason why it couldn't or shouldn't be extended.

What's a good reason? Easy -- there are plenty of mafia-related things to discuss that aren't pertaining directly to an ongoing game. We could work on developing pitches for subsequent games (see the Snitches discussion in this thread during M28), explain rules to a new player who might chime in... hell, even make a harmless joke (like Joker's "It's a Cider room" crack during M28 that some people actually wanted him modkilled over).

And again, allowing this doesn't add any legal inconvenience. You're already banned from talking about ongoing games anywhere outside of the game thread or relevant quicktopic threads. It's like Joker said, rule #5 covers the very things that ostensibly necessitate rule #4 in the first place. #4 is redundant and while I'd certainly agree that the inconvenience it creates is certainly minor, it's also completely unnecessary in light of the existence of rule #5, so I don't get why it's here.

Solitayre
12-07-2013, 06:10 PM
I'd be okay with lifting that restriction and seeing how it goes, as long as people don't abuse it there's no real harm.

But the number one thing (and the cardinal rule of Eddie's rule list) is that at the end, it's the GM's call. If the GM disallows something, it doesn't do any good to argue with them. It's their game, just follow their rules.

Eden
12-07-2013, 06:19 PM
Yup, and I agree with that 100%. If the GM decides "no posting in the main thread at all," that's that

Solitayre
12-07-2013, 06:50 PM
Back on other topics, I like the idea of a Star Wars themed Mafia game but I still think Guild's is too wonky.

Among other things it looks like the mafia can get an extra kill roughly every other night, sometimes MORE often.

aturtledoesbite
12-07-2013, 06:55 PM
Back on other topics, I like the idea of a Star Wars themed Mafia game but I still think Guild's is too wonky.

Among other things it looks like the mafia can get an extra kill roughly every other night, sometimes MORE often.

I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think the mafia actually gets their own kill. I think all nightkills are done through Lightning or Betrayed.

He'd have to confirm that, though.

Guild
12-07-2013, 07:55 PM
I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think the mafia actually gets their own kill. I think all nightkills are done through Lightning or Betrayed.

He'd have to confirm that, though.

Yeah, the idea is the Mafia have to give up some of their kill momentum for masking and sapping and whatnot to prevent the town from learning the gamestate too easily.

e: So for example, (and I think Maul needs 1 more dark force) Maul could Mask himself three times day 1. That way, at the lynch, when reveals start spamming out he has 9 protections stacked up. Doubtful those will be used up before day 3. WIFOM: He does this to someone else, and now they have 9 protections. The lack of scans on them looks super suspicious.

Destil
12-08-2013, 09:50 AM
Back on other topics, I like the idea of a Star Wars themed Mafia game but I still think Guild's is too wonky.

Among other things it looks like the mafia can get an extra kill roughly every other night, sometimes MORE often.

Er, there's no normal night kill as far as I see it in that proposal? Just lightning.

It would likely need a lot of polish and simplification, but I could see that setup being interesting/fun.

Destil
12-08-2013, 12:44 PM
My gut reading is that every jedi reveals day one and things sort of fall apart from there. Also would benefit, I believe, from starting during the night phase (but not allowing lightning night zero).

Does betrayed just happen? Corruption and dark side dots away way too similar and would cause bookkeeping issues, should use something different for that. Kinda think a lot of the costs and triggers a all over the place, but I'd need to think about how the game should play to offer suggestions on how to fix them.

Eddie
12-08-2013, 12:53 PM
I'm going to have to agree that as flavourful as names are, you're running into trouble if you insist on using a select set. The ruleset works without having them, so it might be as well to suggest that players start with varying amount of light/dark force.

Guild
12-08-2013, 12:59 PM
Really I will scrap the whole ruleset if the idea of anyone-can-use-all-powers can be preserved. That's the only thing I'm trying to achieve with Star Wars variants.

Jeanie
12-08-2013, 01:10 PM
Maybe have something like Knights and Masters (Light side) and Apprentices and Lord (Dark Side), where the Knights/Apprentices always gain +1 side-appropriate Force and Masters/Lords gain +2 on top of the other ways to gain Force Points?

Gerad
12-08-2013, 02:58 PM
So, just for inventory purposes for now, we've got the following pitches made or mentioned:

My German Gangster Mafia
gahitsu's Brontomafia
Maybe Rufferto's Pipe Mafia?
Maybe Guild's Insane Robot Overlords Mafia?
Maybe Guild's Idiot Wars Mafia?
Maybe Sol's Succession II?
Maybe Nich's Organization III?
Guild's Star Wars Mafia

Mogri had also mentioned maybe pitching a goofy fun game.

I'm happy to see this surge in pitch interest!

Falselogic
12-08-2013, 05:34 PM
Is Mogri's goofy mafia pitch going to be Sesame Street?

Please say yes!

Mogri
12-08-2013, 05:35 PM
It wasn't, but that is an excellent idea. Since I never made a formal pitch, maybe I'll repitch that one.

Jeanie
12-08-2013, 05:58 PM
http://imageshack.com/a/img513/5391/fwwz.png

Congrats, the Sith just cast Lightning Shield on each other and are effectively invulnerable to Lightning for the entire game.

Gerad
12-08-2013, 06:09 PM
Congrats, the Sith just cast Lightning Shield on each other and are effectively invulnerable to Lightning for the entire game.

But then they get no nightkills!

Karzac
12-08-2013, 09:13 PM
So, just for inventory purposes for now, we've got the following pitches made or mentioned:

My German Gangster Mafia
gahitsu's Brontomafia
Maybe Rufferto's Pipe Mafia?
Maybe Guild's Insane Robot Overlords Mafia?
Maybe Guild's Idiot Wars Mafia?
Maybe Sol's Succession II?
Maybe Nich's Organization III?
Guild's Star Wars Mafia

Mogri had also mentioned maybe pitching a goofy fun game.

I'm happy to see this surge in pitch interest!

Can somebody link me Nich's Organization III pitch and Sol's Succession II pitch? I might be interested in coming out of retirement for those (even though I bailed on Succession I).

Jeanie
12-08-2013, 09:18 PM
Okay, so I missed that part, but then does Nightmare only affect the self or can it be cast on someone else?

Gerad
12-08-2013, 09:31 PM
Can somebody link me Nich's Organization III pitch and Sol's Succession II pitch? I might be interested in coming out of retirement for those (even though I bailed on Succession I).

They haven't posted them yet, just expressed interest in putting them together for this round. I figure we probably still have a week or two before we vote, just wanted to get the list together of what looks like it'll be in this round so far.

Guild
12-08-2013, 09:37 PM
Okay, so I missed that part, but then does Nightmare only affect the self or can it be cast on someone else?

I don't see why anyone would ever use Nightmare on themselves. It's intended to make people look guilty when they aren't.

Jeanie
12-08-2013, 11:10 PM
I don't see why anyone would ever use Nightmare on themselves. It's intended to make people look guilty when they aren't.

The rule didn't specify if it was a target other player or not.

Guild
12-08-2013, 11:21 PM
The rule didn't specify if it was a target other player or not.

Well I dunno, a Sith might have occasion to use it on themselves. I can't think of such an occasion, but why not leave it as an option anyway?

Guild
12-09-2013, 01:50 AM
All three of the bad submissions I did in one inconvenient post!Idiot Wars Mafia
By Brentai Values are non-unique, meaning that, for example, every player in the game may be attempting to die, or every player may be an Investigator.
DEATH CONDITIONS
Each player may have one of the following death conditions: MUST NOT SURVIVE: Player must be dead by end of game to win.
MUST SURVIVE: Player must be alive by end of game to win.
MUST BE LYNCHED: Player must be killed by a lynch vote before the end of the game.
MUST BE KILLED: Player must be killed by something other than a lynch vote to win.
MUST NOT BE LYNCHED: Player may survive or be killed, but may not be lynched.
MUST NOT BE KILLED: Player may survive or be lynched, but may not be killed.
NO DEATH CONDITION: Player needs only fulfill team victory conditions to win.
TEAM VICTORY CONDITIONS
Each player may have one of the following team victory conditions: TEAM MUST WIN: The player's team must win the game for the player to win.
TEAM MUST LOSE: The player's team must lose the game for the player to win.
NO TEAM VICTORY CONDITION: Player needs only fulfill death conditions to win.

If a player does not have death conditions or team victory conditions, that player wins no matter what. How they play the game is entirely up to their whimsy.
ON DEATH
The player may cause any number of the following things to happen on their death: EXPLODE: If lynched, every player who voted for player will die.
INTERCEPTOR: If killed, the player who killed the player will die.
LOCK VOTES: If lynched, every player who voted for the player will have their votes locked for a day.
CURSE: If killed, the player who killed the player will have his vote locked for a day.
MASS REVEAL: If lynched, every player who voted for the player will have his team, victory conditions, and abilities revealed publicly.
FINAL REVELATION: If killed, the player who killed the player will have his team, victory conditions, and abilities revealed publicly.

ABILITIES
The player may have any number of the following abilities (if the player has multiple investigation types they still only get 1 investigation per night): INVESTIGATOR: Learns one player's team, victory conditions and abilities at night.
ORACLE: Learns one player's team at night.
IDIOTMASTER: Learns one player's victory conditions and abilities at night.
FOOL: Thinks they're an INVESTIGATOR, but has a 50% chance of seeing things completely the opposite.
VIGILANTE: Once per game, can perform a single kill at night. Can't kill themselves, that'd be silly.
DAY-GLO NINJA: Can publicly kill a player once per day. Killing doesn't remove the ninja from the game, but it is rather obvious and unstealthy.
SHERIFF: At night, can choose one player to lock up. That player cannot use their abilities that night, but also cannot be killed or voted for the next day. A game with a bunch of sheriffs is crazy.
PROTECTOR: Chooses one target per night. That night, the target is protected from mafia. If targeting self and attacked by mafia, the protector loses the ability.
POSSIBLY LUCKY: Survives one night kill automatically.

Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Mafia
by Guild - version 0.12a

Sith and Jedi can get Light Force: Collect one Light Force for every vote on you at day's end. Sith can get Dark Force: Collect one for every enemy killed. Collect one every 3 phases. d1 n1 d2 n2 d3 n3 d4 n4

Light Force Powers:
1 Light Force: Hide your Dark Force from Investigations for the phase.
3 Light Force: Protect a player from 1 Dark Force kill. Two Dark Force Kill attempts will still go through unless the target is double-protected.
3 Light Force: Investigate another player to see what Force they have.
4 Light Force: If anyone investigates you, you also investigate them in return.
5 Light Force: Remove one vote from yourself automatically if you're up for lynch at day's end.
5 Light Force: Gain a Dark Force.

Dark Force Powers:
0 Dark Force: (Sith Only) Kill an unprotected player. Once per night.
1 Dark Force: Remove all of another player's Force.
1 Dark Force: Make another player appear to have 1 Dark Force. This Dark Force cannot be spent and counts towards having 4 Dark Force.
2 Dark Force: Attempt to kill an additional player at night.
3 Dark Force: If you die with 3 Dark Force or more, the last player who voted you also dies, or your killer dies. Their affiliation is revealed only if you were Jedi.
4 Dark Force: A player with 4 Dark Force dies immediately and their affiliation is not revealed. If they were Sith, a random Jedi also dies and their affiliation is not revealed.

The Sith must decide between them who gets Dark Force for mislynches and Dark Force kills.




Insane Robot Overlord Mafia

Switches
Switch positions are public information at all times.

Cheat Switch
ON: Players are allowed to talk outside the thread, screencap and fake role claims, photoshop and edit private chats, etc. Basically all the things we normally don't allow are allowed.
OFF: Normal rules.

Power Switch
ON: Enables town powers and mafia powers, with the exception of the town's vote and the mafia's kill.
OFF: Only voting and 1 mafia kill is allowed each night.

Light switch
ON: Roles are revealed upon death.
OFF: Affiliation is revealed upon death.

Timer switch
ON: Day ends after 72 hours, night after 48. OFF: Day ends with majority lynch, night ends 1d20 hours after the last night action is in or after 48 hours passes.

Switch switch
ON: After all other switches are set for the day, having this switch on reverses their functions. OFF: All switches operate normally.

Jobs
Jobs are public information and can be given to mafia or town in addition to powers. Using a Job is a publicly declared action.

Switch Operators: Five random players are given power over one specific switch apiece. If these players die their switches are no longer flippable without powers.

Engineer: Can create a new Switch Operator twice during the game. This can result in two operators for one switch being alive at the same time.

Saboteur: One player may permanently disable a switch for the rest of the game, freezing it in its current position, at any time once during the game. Even if the switch operator(s) for that switch are alive, the switch is inoperable.

Powers
Powers are used at night.

Jobblocker - Mafia - Stops a player from using their job for the following day and night.

Powerblocker - Mafia - Stops a player from using their power for the following day and night.

Schematician - Mafia - Sees a random player's role PM every night.

Voltmeter - Town - Learns the powers of a chosen player at night.

Lens Aperture - Town - Learns the affiliation of a chosen player at night.

Malfunctioning Circuitboard - Town - Looks guilty to all investigations and divinations. Dies if they roleclaim.

Bad Capacitor - Town - Kills one player at ANY TIME publically, even at night.

The Insane Robot Overlord - Secret Boss - Gets no special powers, investigates/divines as vanilla the first time investigated, including by the Cheater, and wins by being one of two or the only living player at dawn.

Guild
12-12-2013, 12:58 PM
there's all my pitches in one post

when's the poll?

i vote soon

Gerad
12-12-2013, 01:19 PM
when's the poll?

i vote soon

Sol and Nich are still working on pitches they've expressed interest in making. I figure we give them at least until mid-next week.

Solitayre
12-12-2013, 01:42 PM
I just GMed a couple games ago, so maybe next time.

Falselogic
12-12-2013, 01:47 PM
I thought Mogri was going to pitch his Sesame Street game but I suppose he isn't...

Guild
12-12-2013, 01:50 PM
oh crap the default train is headed straight for my house!

hey... let's just vote on a ruleset and then vote for a GM separately.

I like that idea a lot actually and would put my hat in either ring if nobody else stepped up

but i would really prefer to play (as town)

Gerad
12-12-2013, 02:09 PM
I thought Mogri was going to pitch his Sesame Street game but I suppose he isn't...

Mogri, what say you?

Mogri
12-12-2013, 02:41 PM
Here is what I say.

Who are the people in your neighborhood? They're the people that you kill each day.

Sesame Street Mafia

Uses the standard TT Mafia rules (http://www.talking-time.net/showthread.php?p=1676852#post1676852): days last 72 hours, nights last 48, and the Mafia win if their numbers ever meet or exceed the town's. The role and affiliation of all characters are made public on death, and ties will be decided by coin flip (except as noted below).


The cast

Both teams will be drawn from the same pool of characters, with no character represented more than once. Characters' affiliations are not made public (so, for instance, Big Bird could be town- or mafia-aligned).

Big Bird: An average resident of Sesame Street.

Bip Bippadotta: Mahna mahna. (This guy is average.) Mahna mahna. (No special powers.) Mahna mahna. (This guy is average, he's normal, he's average, he's purple and he has no special powers.)

Bert: Ernie's best friend and roommate. The two trust each other implicitly, and they share a private chat. This role is guaranteed to be town-aligned.

Cookie Monster: An average (if gluttonous) resident of Sesame Street.

Count von Count: The Count gets two votes. Ah ha ha! In addition to his vote counting twice as much as other players', his vote also wins any ties.

Elmo: An average (if annoying) resident of Sesame Street.

Ernie: Bert's best friend and roommate. The two trust each other implicitly, and they share a private chat. This role is guaranteed to be town-aligned.

Guy Smiley: A game show host with an outgoing personality. Guy begins the game with the knowledge of two roles that are not in the game.

Grover: Once per game, he can transform into Super Grover! That night, both he and the player of his choice are immune to nightkills and roleblocking. If Grover would be nightkilled (while not roleblocked) before transforming into Super Grover, then he survives, but loses his ability and becomes a regular citizen. He is privately informed if this happens.

Kermit: As an investigative reporter, Kermit can choose another player to report on each night. He learns that player's affiliation.

Oscar the Grouch: Oscar lives in a deceptively large trash can and doesn't like you. He can block one player's action each night. While Oscar was orange in season one, his natural color is green.

Roosevelt Franklin: An average resident of Sesame Street, who may or may not perpetuate negative cultural stereotypes. For our purposes, he has purple skin.

Sherlock Hemlock: A detective of dubious skill, Sherlock Hemlock can investigate a player each night to learn the skin/fur color of that player's character. (For example, Count von Count is purple, while Bert and Big Bird are yellow.)

Snuffleupagus: Big Bird's imaginary friend, at least until 1985. Snuffleupagus begins the game immune to lynches, but with zero vote power. (He can place votes, but his votes do nothing and he doesn't count towards the number of town players remaining in the game.) At any time before the last hour of a game day, Snuffleupagus may choose to lose his power by sending a private message to the GM. This change is permanent. This role is guaranteed to be town-aligned.

Telly Monster: An average (if mentally unstable) resident of Sesame Street.

Zoe: An average (if female) resident of Sesame Street.

This game is brought to you by the letter M and the number 1.

aturtledoesbite
12-12-2013, 02:47 PM
Mogri, I think you may end up needing more roles. We've had more than 16 people sign up for past games, I believe.

Mogri
12-12-2013, 02:49 PM
I can get more roles if I need more roles. I'd be surprised if we have >16 participants in this round, though.

Guild
12-12-2013, 02:55 PM
I vote for Mogri's game.

Eden
12-12-2013, 02:57 PM
welp I'm signing up for Sesame Street mafia

go ahead and shut it down now

Guild
12-12-2013, 03:17 PM
we both should have waited longer so more people would sign up

Falselogic
12-12-2013, 03:23 PM
I vote to lynch guild.

Did we win?

Egarwaen
12-12-2013, 03:29 PM
welp I'm signing up for Sesame Street mafia

go ahead and shut it down now

Yeah, I don't see anything that feels egregiously unfair or imbalanced there; it looks like FFTMafia, but with more of what I like.

Destil
12-12-2013, 04:06 PM
Guild go home, you're Guild.

Egarwaen
12-12-2013, 04:16 PM
Uses the standard TT Mafia rules (http://www.talking-time.net/showthread.php?p=1676852#post1676852): days last 72 hours, nights last 48, and the Mafia win if their numbers ever meet or exceed the town's. The role and affiliation of all characters are made public on death, and ties will be decided by coin flip (except as noted below).

Bert: Ernie's best friend and roommate. The two trust each other implicitly, and they share a private chat. This role is guaranteed to be town-aligned.

Ernie: Bert's best friend and roommate. The two trust each other implicitly, and they share a private chat. This role is guaranteed to be town-aligned.


Are Bert and Ernie allowed to engage in stenography or encryption shenanigans such that one can prove their identity once the other dies?

Guild
12-12-2013, 04:17 PM
I don't even believe in tomorrow. Why should anyone? There wasn't one yesterday.

Mogri
12-12-2013, 04:21 PM
Are Bert and Ernie allowed to engage in stenography or encryption shenanigans such that one can prove their identity once the other dies?

I'm inclined to say yes. It's functionally impossible to prevent players from sticking secret messages into their posts (such as this one).

breakman
12-12-2013, 04:25 PM
It feels weird for me to say this, because I didn't like when it happened after my first Mafia game, but you guys should probably wait until after the holidays to start the next game, right?

Gerad
12-12-2013, 04:37 PM
It feels weird for me to say this, because I didn't like when it happened after my first Mafia game, but you guys should probably wait until after the holidays to start the next game, right?

I was thinking we start the poll soon and then leave it up to the GM to decide on game timing.

Guild
12-12-2013, 04:42 PM
...micro holidays game?

Ма́фия

For 9, 11 or 13 players

The Detective: an innocent who may "investigate" a player each night, learning that player's role from the moderator.
The Doctor: an innocent who may protect a player from killing roles each night.
The Nurse: an innocent who becomes Doctor if the Doctor dies.
The Barman: a mafioso who may cancel the effect of another role's ability each night.
The Vigilante: an innocent who may kill a player every night.
4, 6 or 8 vanilla innocents - Can only vote and die.

Egarwaen
12-12-2013, 04:44 PM
I'm inclined to say yes. It's functionally impossible to prevent players from sticking secret messages into their posts (such as this one).

There's a difference between secret messages and stenography/encryption shenanigans. If it's a feature you want to support, that's one thing, and is probably fine though I find it frustrating, as such shenanigans, executed well, tend to be incredibly powerful. Proving identity is the bit that concerns me, and that's specific and easy enough to stop: if they do it, they get modkilled. Done.

(And I expect them to do it if allowed. Eddie basically solved this... Last game? A few games ago? I'd have to dig up the place he found to hide his messages, but it was good enough that it's impossible to find without knowing it's there on a specific post.)

Solitayre
12-12-2013, 05:04 PM
I agree that it's up to the GM when we start, although if people prefer to wait until after the holidays I'd be up for Micromafia in the interim.

Mogri
12-12-2013, 05:28 PM
There's a difference between secret messages and stenography/encryption shenanigans. If it's a feature you want to support, that's one thing, and is probably fine though I find it frustrating, as such shenanigans, executed well, tend to be incredibly powerful. Proving identity is the bit that concerns me, and that's specific and easy enough to stop: if they do it, they get modkilled. Done.

(And I expect them to do it if allowed. Eddie basically solved this... Last game? A few games ago? I'd have to dig up the place he found to hide his messages, but it was good enough that it's impossible to find without knowing it's there on a specific post.)

How do you define "proving identity," though? It's a gray area, and I'd rather stay out of it and let the players sort it out.

My inclination is to allow secret messages, but disallow public encryption (as seen in Dirty Dancing). A single soft-confirmed town player isn't going to throw the entire game off-balance. Eddie didn't manage to do anything of note with it in the last game. Forcing an encrypted claim out of the entire playerbase on the first game day is definitely unbalancing, though.

Eden
12-12-2013, 05:56 PM
I agree that it's up to the GM when we start, although if people prefer to wait until after the holidays I'd be up for Micromafia in the interim.

Gerad
12-12-2013, 06:26 PM
I'll post a poll later tonight. Whoever's winning can decide on a start date and then we can decide on micromafia (I'd be in).

PrivateJoker
12-12-2013, 08:17 PM
How do you define "proving identity," though? It's a gray area, and I'd rather stay out of it and let the players sort it out.

My inclination is to allow secret messages, but disallow public encryption (as seen in Dirty Dancing). A single soft-confirmed town player isn't going to throw the entire game off-balance. Eddie didn't manage to do anything of note with it in the last game. Forcing an encrypted claim out of the entire playerbase on the first game day is definitely unbalancing, though.

I would argue that Eddie being confirmed, and thus eliminated from the pool of possible mafia suspects, is a HUGE part of what allowed Sol to lock the game up with his endgame plan. Instead of havign to worry about both Falselogic and Eddie, the list of things that could go wrong was cut in half.

Solitayre
12-12-2013, 08:20 PM
The entire point of Eddie's role was that he could self-confirm, though. That was all his role could do.

PrivateJoker
12-12-2013, 08:23 PM
Yea, but saying it didn't accomplish anything, or affect the gamestate at all, is foolish, if you ask me.

Mogri
12-12-2013, 08:30 PM
Yea, but saying it didn't accomplish anything, or affect the gamestate at all, is foolish, if you ask me.

Good thing that's not what I said. Eddie being hard-confirmed may have been the deciding factor, arguably, but it didn't unbalance the game.

PrivateJoker
12-12-2013, 08:34 PM
Good thing that's not what I said. Eddie being hard-confirmed may have been the deciding factor, arguably, but it didn't unbalance the game.

I guess I misunderstood, "didn't manage to do anything of note with it last game." Guaranteeing victory by PoE is pretty noteworthy, to me.

But no, it wasn't imbalanced. The mafia knew he was confirmed, and could have killed him at any time. Secret encryption isn't the same thing as that, though. It can potentially confirm somebody without the mafia realizing it has happened, which seems silly. That's a function of secret encryption, not the function of a role included in the game design.

Gerad
12-12-2013, 08:36 PM
Stop arguing about minutia from last game y'all and go vote in the poll (http://www.talking-time.net/showthread.php?p=1681353#post1681353)!

PrivateJoker
12-12-2013, 08:40 PM
Stop arguing about minutia from last game y'all and go vote in the poll (http://www.talking-time.net/showthread.php?p=1681353#post1681353)!

We're discussing "Mafia: The Forum Game".

Is this not the place to do that?

Gerad
12-12-2013, 08:41 PM
Go ahead. It was an advertisement for the new game poll combined with an attempt at levity, no more.

Guild
12-12-2013, 09:08 PM
We're discussing "Mafia: The Forum Game".

Is this not the place to do that?

b& for asking questions

aturtledoesbite
12-12-2013, 09:18 PM
Plus I don't think this is even what Mogri was referring to. I think he was talking about the code he hid in one of his posts that proved Rufferto was the Mediator.

Egarwaen
12-13-2013, 11:06 AM
Plus I don't think this is even what Mogri was referring to. I think he was talking about the code he hid in one of his posts that proved Rufferto was the Mediator.

That's what I'm referring to; yes. While it might not have been unbalancing there, now that it's been done, every player with a private town communication role that doesn't explicitly ban it should use that exact tactic to hard confirm themselves in the event of their partner's death, and all private town communication roles should be considered "hard confirm on demand".

Solitayre
12-13-2013, 11:11 AM
In the event where two players with private communication are explicitly stated in the rules to be both town, I don't see that as being an issue at all.

If you don't want townies to be able to do that, make it possible that one of the people with a private communication line is a mobster.

Eden
12-17-2013, 01:02 AM
So I have a great flavor for the micromafia game that I'll be running with some IRL friends/acquaintances/etc. over the break, if you guys want to use it too.

"War on Christmas"

Town: FoxNews
Scum: Atheist Liberal Agenda

Tagline: "The most fair and balanced micromafia game you'll ever play!"

Plot: Atheist libruls have infiltrated the Heartland! Using your God-given brains and brawn and the help of your friends over at FoxNews, it's time for Real Americans to stand up and take their country back! The town wins by givin' all these hippie bastards the boot outta town. The scum win by gainin' a majority and rammin' Obamacare down all our throats!

Town Roles:
[unknown number] White Knights for White Jesus: You're just an ordinary God-fearin' righteous young [wo]man. Ain't nothin' special aboutcha. You weren't the smartest or the strongest kid in the class, but with your good ole American upbringin' and your own hard, honest work, you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps to become one of FoxNews's prestigious White Knights for White Jesus. Every day, bright an' early (just like yer daddy taught ya!) you'll congregate with your trusted FoxNews leaders to decide which God-mockin' atheist librul scumbag gets booted outta Heartland, USA! And then you'll go to your high-payin' job out on th' oil rigs 'til ya come home, have a wonderful dinner with the spouse and kids, and get a good night's rest 'fore the mornin'.
1 Bill O'Reilly, Guardian of the American Way: You're Bill O'Reilly, the captain of the CHRISTmas Defense Corps! Every night your famous No Spin Zone talk show, The Factor, is broadcast directly into the homes of every America-lovin' patriot in the Heartland, where you invite one of them damn commie libruls on the air and smash 'em into tiny, anti-American bits! Each night you may select one player to blast straight to the gates of hell, just like Jesus woulda wanted ya to do.
1 Megyn Kelly, Seeker of Truth: You're Megyn Kelly, the newest hotshot to get her own talk show on FoxNews. You're a decorated reporter with a reputation for finding TheTruth*(TM). Every night when you go to work, you and your proud red-blooded American coworkers will pick one citizen of the Heartland to investigate, and you'll be informed whether they're a God-Fearin' American or an Atheist Librul Commie.
1 Sinterklaas, Protector of Justice: That's right! White Santa, kids. Sinterklaas is a great man, a real American Hero. Once per night, he chooses a home to visit. That home, and every God-fearin' American inside of it, will be protected from assassination attempts by radical librul extremists -- and all the nice kids will get free presents, too!

Scum Roles:
[unknown number] Hippie Commie Pinkos: We don't tolerate yer kind 'round these parts. We know what y'all do to honest, good, hard-workin' Americans. Every night y'all get together with your Satanic rituals and devil worship, and ya run a good American right outta the Heartland! We won't stand for yer war on our holiday, you sumbitches, so ya'd best ready yaselves, 'cause we're comin' for YOU.
1 Jon Stewart, Literally Hitler: Ain't none'a y'all should be surprised that the man whose people dun crucified Our Lord Jesus Christ is runnin' the War on Christmas. We're onto your slimy ways, ya commie. We know all about your misdirection and your spin and your media control. You may be able to cook the books and always look innocent on our investigations, but rest assured, we gon find you.
1 Occupier of Wall Street, Godless Reddit Heathen: Yer the reason why this country's goin' down the drain, son! Damn kids these days, not respectin' authority an' their parents... Every night you and yer commie pinko pals set up tents in someone's front yard, keepin' them from gettin' to their night job, 'cause yer full of schadenfreude and if you can't get a job with yer librul arts degree, you think nobody should have one!
1 Osama bin Laden, Muslim Brotherhood Sleeper: Takin' the name of the biggest American traitor since Benedict Arnold... you got some guts in this town, boy-o. We know what yer up to. Ever since 9/11 Changed Everything, we've been keepin' a close eye on yer kind. Yer all about that jeee-hahd, that sacrifice fer Allah, all that crap Glenn Beck told us aboutchu. You got one shot to blow up any God-fearin' American's house during the night, killin' them and anyone who visit them no matter what. Then ya die, and ya think 72 virgins are awaitin' ya, but yer a damn fool, 'cause yer goin' straight to Hell!

Other Roles:
1 Rudolph the Blood-Red-Nosed Reindeer: Yer tired of this damned town callin' you by the wrong name! Yer a right proud reindeer, dammit! A reindeer! And you'll show this no-good town what's what! Every night you get to choose one person to gore with your mighty antlers. You win when everyone's dead except you... unless someone can call you by your proper name! (Details below.)

Mechanics:
* The power role priority is as follows:
Bin Laden (Terrorist) > Occupier (Roleblocker) > Sinterklaas (Doctor) > O'Reilly (Vigilante) > Scum (Mafia kill) = Rudolph (Serial Killer) > Kelly (Cop)
* Conversion mechanics:
0) Conversion mechanics are optional; the GM may elect to play with or without them (if without, then Rudolph acts as a vanilla serial killer).
1) Every player may, once per game, attempt to guess the identity of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer.
2) If a player correctly guesses Rudolph's identity, Rudolph will be messaged by the GM ASAP, with the choice to convert to the alignment of the guesser, or to reject conversion.
3) If Rudolph converts, it will not be announced publicly, but the guesser will be messaged by the GM at the end of the subsequent night to inform them of their successful conversion.
4) If Rudolph rejects conversion, it will not be announced publicly, and Rudolph will be forced to use the nightkill on the guesser.

Typical conditions about rules/etc. apply.

aturtledoesbite
12-17-2013, 02:10 AM
...I cannot, willingly or not, make myself participate in that format.

This is worse than that mafia mafia that was proposed a while back.

gahitsu
12-17-2013, 02:23 AM
...I cannot, willingly or not, make myself participate in that format.

This is worse than that mafia mafia that was proposed a while back.

In flavor or mechanics?

Eden
12-17-2013, 02:30 AM
I assume flavor, the mechanics are pretty vanilla.

Jimmies status [RUSTLED] unrustled

Guild
12-31-2013, 06:00 PM
Auction House Mafia
v0.1 by Guildenstern




Players may pass money to other players only in a Quick Topic.
Town players get $3 every twilight and start with $3.
Mafia players get $3 every twilight and start with $5
Three powers, three buffs, three debuffs and three modulations are put up for auction every night.
Players may submit multiple bids, but the total bid for all items must not exceed their total cash or their bids are discarded.
Bidding can be used to either make a specific player or role buffed, debuffed or modulated or prevent a specific player or role from becoming buffed, debuffed or modulated.
Players may also bid against letting another player become a specific power.
Unsuccessful bid money is returned to the player at dawn.
Buffs and Debuffs aren't public knowledge.

Example of some bidding:
On night 0 a Town player bids $2 to become an Investigator. A mafioso bids $3 to make the Investigator become Patient Zeroed if there is an Investigator. Assuming both players win their bids, the PZed Investigator will then be able to start investigating and infecting every time he investigates a Debuffed player.

Debuffs

Drunk: Gain a random posting restriction. Example: You must include a song lyric in every post or you'll die.
Slow: Your actions will be delayed one day or night. For instance, if you Gunsling someone N1 the kill will go through N2.
Patient Zero: When you target someone you'll spread all negative effects both of you have to each other.
Martyr: You will always appear "guilty" to investigative reports.
Loving: If your target is lynched the following day, you will die as well.
Hated: You take one less vote than normal to lynch. For example, with 5 to lynch, you only require 4 votes to lynch.
Magnetic: After you target someone, you must subsquently target them for the rest of the game whenever you wish to action as long as they are alive. If they die, the process starts over.
Macho: You cannot be protected from kills in any way.

Buffs

Bulletproof: The first kill on you will not work.
Vengeful: When you are lynched, you can choose to kill someone on your wagon.
Ascetic: All night actions directed at you are reflexively roleblocked and have no effect except kills.
Bending: You may redirect any actions used on you during the day to a target of your choosing.
Ninja: Does not count as visiting for any actions.
Loved: Takes 1 more vote to lynch than the rest of the players.
Copying: When you target someone, you will "copy" their positive effect. This effect is cumulative.
Neighborizing: Gain a QT with your target each night. For every target there will be a fresh QT.

Modulators

Broken: The power gives every appearance of working, but does effectively nothing 50% of the time (coin flip).
Psychic: When you action, submit a guess as to what your target's role is. If you guess correctly, you gain a second shot of your action to be used at your discretion.
Day: You may only use your power during the day.
Non Consecutive: You may not use your power two nights in a row.
Double-Shot: You have two shots of your power which you may use either at the same time or spread across different nights. Afterwards you lose your power.
Anxious: You can only action during the day before the halfway point of the deadline. For example, if the deadline is 7 days, you can only action in the first 3 1/2 days of the phase.
Gladiatorial: You can only use your action during the night on people who voted for you during the day.
Bloodthirsty: If there is ever a no-lynch, you cannot action on the following night. However you can action normally like 'Unlimited' if this is not the case.

Powers

Investigator: Town investigators will receive either "Guilty or Innocent". Mafia investigators will receive their targets Role (e.g Doctor, Roleblocker, etc). Day Version - Cop/Rolecop: No difference.
Doctor: Protect your target from kills. No self doctoring. Day Version - Governor: After the majority has been hit during twilight if you so wish you can reverse the lynch and prevent the lynchee from being lynched.
Cowboy: Track your target during the night to find out who they visited. Day Version - Find out whether your target owns a gun. Includes Investigators, Mafia and Gunslingers.
Indian: Watch your target during the night to find out who visits them. No self watching. Day Version: Find out whether your target is a protective role. Includes Doctors and Sheriffs.
Gunslinger: Kill somebody during the night. Day Version - Vigilante: No difference.
Sign Maker: Your targets actions will be redirected into a secondary target of your choosing. Day Version - Vote Thief: Target someone, they lose their vote for today and it becomes yours.
Sheriff: Your target will not perform any actions. You stop their role from working for a night. Day Version - Vote Blocker: Target someone, their vote is nullified for the rest of the day, meaning they cannot vote/its useless.
Jailkeeper: Your target is both Doctored and Roleblocked, meaning they cannot be killed and they will not perform any actions. Day Version - Warden: Your target is Vote Blocked and cannot be lynched for that day.







Somebody look this over and tell me your thoughts.

recentteen14
01-01-2014, 12:45 AM
Quick, someone Patient Zero and get drunk then spread it! Seriously, that would make for a fun game

Teaspoon
01-29-2014, 11:26 PM
Wow...

Falselogic
01-30-2014, 09:43 AM
Let it die

its been dead for days

shivam
01-30-2014, 06:58 PM
what the fuck just happened?

Guild
01-31-2014, 12:30 PM
I'll run Auction House but I can't play the next game.

Falselogic
01-31-2014, 12:48 PM
I'm trying to put together a mafia game themed around the assassination of Julius Caesar.

we'll see if I can make it happen...

Falselogic
01-31-2014, 02:29 PM
The Ides of March: a Mafia Game

Ides of March is a Mafia game using the Cult variant. With the following general rules:

1. Post at least once per day.
2. No sharing role PMs, images of quicktopic chats, or anything else outside the thread.
3. Don't tag threads.
4. Don't post in the main Mafia: the Forum game thread
5. No communicating outside of the thread about the game.
6. No communication of information received from the Moderator. I will be interpreting this in the widest way possible
7. Roleplay is encouraged!

Players
Each player is a member of one of two teams: Senators or Conspirators

Senator, excluding a few, have no special powers. They must post in the thread during the day and may vote to censure

Conspirators are the Mafia of this game, they can do everything crew can do. In addition they talk in secret during the night. Once per night they choose one player to convert by vote, this player becomes a conspirator. Converted players lose any powers they might have had. Any player converted in such a way is sent a PM before the start of the next day with the names of all current living conspirators.

Censure
Each player may vote to censure another player, the vote must be in bold and on its own line. Votes may be retracted at any point during the day, voting for another player automatically retracts your vote for an earlier player.

In the case of a tie, the player with the earliest unretracted vote will be censured.

If the censured player is a Conspirator their name is made public and they are publically executed.
If the censured player is a Senator their name is made public but there are no other effects.

Day and Night
The day is 48 hours long. Censures occur as soon as the day ends.
The night is 24 hours long.

Victory
All unconverted Senators (alive and dead) win when no things remain alive after a censure. All Conspirators lose.
All Conspirators (alive and dead) win when their number is equal to or greater than the number of crewmembers at the end of the night. And the last targeted Senator was Julius Ceasar. All unconverted Senators lose.



dramatis personae

Town
Gaius Julius Caesar (Dictator) - Cannot be converted if targeted the conversion fails - Once per game can PM the Moderator to skip the night phase.
Marcus Antonius (Quaestor)- Cannot be converted if targeted Marcus Antonius dies and this information is revealed to the Town at start of next day. Is the investigator
Servius Sulpicius Galba (Lictor) - Doctor- targets one player each night. If that player is the target of conversion the conversion fails.
Quintus Ligarius - A senator
Lucius Minucius Basilus - A senator
Gaius Servilius Casca - A senator
Publius Servilius Casca Longus - A senator
Decimus Junius Brutus Albinus - A senator
Lucius Tillius Cimber - A senator
Gaius Trebonius - A senator
Lucius Cassius Longinus - A senator
Gaius Cassius Parmensis - A senator
Caecilius - A senator
Bucolianus - A senator
Rubrius Ruga - A senator
Marcus Spurius - A senator
Publius Sextius Naso - A senator
Lucius Pontius Aquila - A senator
Petronius - A senator
Decimus Turullius - A senator
Pacuvius Antistius Labeo - A senator


Conspirators
Gaius Cassius Longinus (Consul) - Makes one vote publically and one vote privately to the Moderator, only the private vote counts
Marcus Junius Brutus (Trusted young friend) - Appears as a Senator when investigated by Marcus Antonius



This is my first attempt at coming up with a ruleset. For all I know it could be horribly constructed. Coming up with how many Conspirators to start with and how many players I'd need to have a decent game are unknown to me.

Things of note: I shortened the hours for day and night, posting is required by players. And I highly encourage roleplaying

Anyway, tear it apart. I'm more interested in the flavor than the mechanics with this one.

Mogri
01-31-2014, 02:51 PM
Mechanics problem: If the bad guys have one conversion per night and the good guys have one lynch per day, it's nearly impossible for them to win. Thing solved this by giving two scans per day, plus an extra scan each time the last scan of the day is successful.

Once that's cleared up, I'd play it. I like the flavor.

aturtledoesbite
01-31-2014, 02:55 PM
I like this idea. Though, I'm curious about one thing.

At most, the Senators can execute one Conspirator per day. The Conspirators can recruit one Senator per day. Even at optimal play, the Town can't gain ground unless the Conspirators target either Marcus or Caesar.

EDIT: Mogri got it first.

Galadrome
01-31-2014, 02:58 PM
I really, really like that flavour False. Due to having never played Mafia before I can't comment on the mechanics. I recognize a lot of the names you listed and recall them having been involved in the murder of Caesar but were all of them? I don't ever remember reading or hearing about a Pacuvius Antistius Labeo before.

Falselogic
01-31-2014, 02:59 PM
The town isnt lynching. There just seeing if someone is a Senator or a conspirator. If the censures reveals a Senator that senator doesn't die. Death only happens when a Conspirator is censured.

Teaspoon
01-31-2014, 03:01 PM
What's the "Julius must be the last target" requirement?

Cos yes, flavour, but I could see a silly situation where you have five Mafia and three Town (f'instance) and the game drags on another day just because the Mafia picked the wrong convert target.

Falselogic
01-31-2014, 03:01 PM
I really, really like that flavour False. Due to having never played Mafia before I can't comment on the mechanics. I recognize a lot of the names you listed and recall them having been involved in the murder of Caesar but were all of them? I don't ever remember reading or hearing about a Pacuvius Antistius Labeo before.

We know from sources that there were about 60 conspirators, only about 20 of those do we have names of. I've used those names for characters in this game.

aturtledoesbite
01-31-2014, 03:01 PM
Yes, but the problem is that the Town cannot permanently reduce the number of Conspirators. Even if they hit a Conspirator at day, the Conspirators will just recruit another at night.

Mogri
01-31-2014, 03:02 PM
Yes, but the Senate is at best keeping pace with the conspirators.

For example, let's suppose the town has a 100% success rate.
Game start: 10 town, 2 mafia
Day 1: 10 town, 1 mafia
Night 1: 9 town, 2 mafia
Day 2: 9 town, 1 mafia
Night 2: 8 town, 2 mafia
Day 3: 8 town, 1 mafia
etc.

Falselogic
01-31-2014, 03:03 PM
What's the "Julius must be the last target" requirement?

Cos yes, flavour, but I could see a silly situation where you have five Mafia and three Town (f'instance) and the game drags on another day just because the Mafia picked the wrong convert target.

You answered your own question, Cause flavor.

Yes, but the problem is that the Town cannot permanently reduce the number of Conspirators. Even if they hit a Conspirator at day, the Conspirators will just recruit another at night.

Oh, okay. I getcha. Hrm. Let me think about this. I think we've dealt with this in the past by killing off conspirators and then allowing bonus scans, right?

Destil
01-31-2014, 03:06 PM
Am I missing a reason for Ceaser not to just reveal?

Seems like it's The Thing without the extra scan, mechanically. I think a lot of people have been frustrated with both variants we've run of that, but I'd be game.

EDIT: I mean, once you fix the big hole with the senate not being able to catch up.

Mogri
01-31-2014, 03:06 PM
The Thing gives one "free" scan per day, then one additional scan. If the additional scan hits, then you get another additional scan, until you miss or win.

Red Hedgehog
01-31-2014, 03:08 PM
Also, I think people generally find it too strong to give the doctor no "cool down". Otherwise, it's pretty optimal for the investigator to reveal and doctor not and the doctor just always protects the investigator until the mafia get lucky and find the doctor.

Galadrome
01-31-2014, 03:10 PM
We know from sources that there were about 60 conspirators, only about 20 of those do we have names of. I've used those names for characters in this game.

That makes a lot of sense. I was just curious about where you got some of the names from.

Falselogic
01-31-2014, 03:10 PM
Am I missing a reason for Ceaser not to just reveal?

6. No communication of information received from the Moderator. I will be interpreting this in the widest way possible

Also I suppose if the game got far enough along Caesar wouldnt want people to know who he was

Seems like it's The Thing without the extra scan, mechanically. I think a lot of people have been frustrated with both variants we've run of that, but I'd be game.

EDIT: I mean, once you fix the big hole with the senate not being able to catch up.

I picked the theme first and then tried to construct a mafia game around it. The Cult variant seemed to work best. Of course I missed the whole catch up part...

Falselogic
01-31-2014, 03:12 PM
That makes a lot of sense. I was just curious about where you got some of the names from.

I raided my bookshelf! My degree in Classical Civilizations is finally paying off!

gahitsu
01-31-2014, 03:12 PM
I too like this flavor, and would be down for it after modifications.

Destil
01-31-2014, 03:13 PM
6. No communication of information received from the Moderator. I will be interpreting this in the widest way possible

So I will be modkilled for claiming I'm a senator because I read my role PM n defense?

Falselogic
01-31-2014, 03:18 PM
So I will be modkilled for claiming I'm a senator because I read my role PM n defense?

Yes. Just like you'd be killed for doing that in the last four games.

Falselogic
01-31-2014, 03:26 PM
I think he means, "will I be modkilled for claiming that I'm a senator," since the knowledge that he's a senator is imparted by the GM.

The rule was put in to discourage cyphers, pre-claims, codes, acrostics, etc. etc. I can't cover every permutation of this all I can say is that much like Justice Stewart "I know it when I see it."

Ill try to make that clearer in the next write up

aturtledoesbite
01-31-2014, 03:32 PM
I'm curious how Marcus is supposed to use his investigator power if he can't claim he has it.

Gerad
01-31-2014, 03:45 PM
I'm curious how Marcus is supposed to use his investigator power if he can't claim he has it.

He just has to lampshade it as hard as he can Eden-style.

"I think Sol is guilty. However, I know Taeryn is guilty!"

"How?"

"I just know!"

Destil
01-31-2014, 03:48 PM
Yeah, that's why I hate soft rules like that. I can't even claim I'm innocent in my defense, I only know that from a PM.

It should simply be no direct quoting or screenshots. The rule there is to prevent the game from becoming "mafia: the photoshop game".

Falselogic
01-31-2014, 04:26 PM
Yeah, that's why I hate soft rules like that. I can't even claim I'm innocent in my defense, I only know that from a PM.

It should simply be no direct quoting or screenshots. The rule there is to prevent the game from becoming "mafia: the photoshop game".

I understand that. I'm also trying to avoid Mafia: the SEE HOW CLEVER I AM GAME

perhaps that can't be done though.

Revision inbound

Destil
01-31-2014, 04:29 PM
Mafia: the SEE HOW CLEVER I AM GAME

I honestly can't even wrap my brain around what would even be left if you removed that.

Falselogic
01-31-2014, 04:32 PM
I honestly can't even wrap my brain around what would even be left if you removed that.

So in your mind Mafia is a game about acrostics, cryptography, html codes and such?

good to know...

Destil
01-31-2014, 04:33 PM
No, it's a logic puzzle. Those are just some of the tools used to play.

Falselogic
01-31-2014, 04:34 PM
No, it's a logic puzzle. Those are just some of the tools used to play.

Tools that in this game I would prefer not be available.

Falselogic
01-31-2014, 05:19 PM
Changes -

Rule 6 altered.
Doctor prevented from protecting same person two nights in a row
Censure happens twice during the day phase with a successful censure extending the day phase by 24 hours.

Thoughts -

Consul role - Should both votes count or only the secret vote?
Kill Caesar to win requirement - necessary? Of course I fill it is needed because of the flavor of the game same as making him safe from conversion. This also prevents Caesar from revealing and leading them team. I could change this to that a reveal instantly turns Caesar into a stump? Though even that could still be powerful.
I'm wondering if the phases are too short. I wanted a quicker paced game but...

Thanks again.

The Ides of March: a Mafia Game

Ides of March is a Mafia game using the Cult variant. With the following general rules:

1. Post at least once per day.
2. No sharing role PMs, images of quicktopic chats, or anything else outside the thread.
3. Don't tag threads.
4. Don't post in the main Mafia: the Forum game thread
5. No communicating outside of the thread about the game.
6. No gimmicks (acrostics, html coding, cryptography)
7. Roleplay is encouraged!

Players
Each player is a member of one of two teams: Senators or Conspirators

Senator, excluding a few, have no special powers. They must post in the thread during the day and may vote to censure

Conspirators are the Mafia of this game, they can do everything crew can do. In addition they talk in secret during the night. Once per night they choose one player to convert by vote, this player becomes a conspirator. Converted players lose any powers they might have had. Any player converted in such a way is sent a PM before the start of the next day with the names of all current living conspirators.

Censure
Each player may vote to censure another player, the vote must be in bold and on its own line. Votes may be retracted at any point during the day, voting for another player automatically retracts your vote for an earlier player.

In the case of a tie, the player with the earliest unretracted vote will be censured.

If the censured player is a Conspirator their name is made public and they are publically executed.
If the censured player is a Senator their name is made public but there are no other effects.

There are two (or more) censures during the day phase, after the 24th and 48th hours. Gameplay resumes after the first censure. If a Conspirator is discovered at either censure the Senate will go into an extended session and the day phase will last for another 24 hours after which another censure will occur. Regardless of the results of the third censure the day phase ends.

Day and Night
The day is 48 hours long. Unless extended by 24 hours after a successful censure.
The night is 24 hours long.

Victory
All unconverted Senators (alive and dead) win when no Conspirators remain alive after a censure. All Conspirators lose.
All Conspirators (alive and dead) win when their number is equal to or greater than the number of crewmembers at the end of the night. And the last targeted Senator was Julius Ceasar. All unconverted Senators lose.



dramatis personae

Town - The Senate
Gaius Julius Caesar (Dictator) - Cannot be converted if targeted the conversion fails - Once per game can PM the Moderator to end the day, kill any player, and go directly into the next day.
Marcus Antonius (Quaestor)- Cannot be converted, if targeted for conversion Marcus Antonius dies and this information is revealed to the Town at start of next day. Each night may investigate a single player to determine if they are a Senator or Conspirator.
Servius Sulpicius Galba (Lictor) - May target a player at night. If that player is the target of conversion the conversion fails. The Lictor may not protect the same person two nights in a row.
Quintus Ligarius - A senator
Lucius Minucius Basilus - A senator
Gaius Servilius Casca - A senator
Publius Servilius Casca Longus - A senator
Decimus Junius Brutus Albinus - A senator
Lucius Tillius Cimber - A senator
Gaius Trebonius - A senator
Lucius Cassius Longinus - A senator
Gaius Cassius Parmensis - A senator
Caecilius - A senator
Bucolianus - A senator
Rubrius Ruga - A senator
Marcus Spurius - A senator
Publius Sextius Naso - A senator
Lucius Pontius Aquila - A senator
Petronius - A senator
Decimus Turullius - A senator
Pacuvius Antistius Labeo - A senator


Mafia - Conspirators (they call themselves the Liberators)
Gaius Cassius Longinus (Consul) - Makes one vote publically and one vote privately to the Moderator.
Marcus Junius Brutus (Trusted young friend/bastard son of Julius?) - Appears as a Senator when investigated by Marcus Antonius.

Falselogic
01-31-2014, 06:12 PM
For IRL games with this ruleset I had a whole modified set of Robert's Rules of Order that players would have to use for the game. Where players had to make motions and have seconds and every motion seconded would have to be immediately acted on...

Yes, I find parliamentary procedure exciting...

Guild
01-31-2014, 07:10 PM
Auction House Mafia v0.3 by Guild
all changes underlined

I. General Rules1. Situationally, breaking any rule may result in an instant mod kill.
2. Talking about this game outside the game thread is not allowed unless your role PM specifically allows it.
3. Do not quote any part of any PM from me or use any method to try to prove your role to another player.
4. No editing or deleting posts and no tagging.
5. This is my color. Do not use it.
6. If a player has not posted within a reasonable length of time they may be prodded. Prods are cumulative, and three prods result in replacement. Giving a public notice of absence grants immunity from prods.
7. Day ends when majority of votes is reached or after 72 hours, whichever comes first. Night ends after 48 hours or 3d10 hours after the final action is in, whichever comes first.
8. The order of power resolutions is Roleblocks > Protections > Kills > Investigations.
9. I can change the rules but will avoid it at all cost.II. Game-Specific Rules1. Players may pass money freely to other players only in a Quick Topic.
2. Anonymously passing money through the GM costs 2/3rds rounded up of the total in handling fees. Anonymity is not optional for this kind of transaction.
3. Town players get $3 every twilight and start with $3.
4. Mafia players get $3 every twilight and start with $5
5. A random number of items will be available for bid every day, and can include any type in any number.
6. Players may submit multiple bids, but the total bid for all items must not exceed their total cash or their bids are discarded.
7. Bidding can be used to assign any item to any player, highest bid wins. Effects from auction house items are permanent.
8. Becoming buffed or empowered is secret to everyone but the GM and the player. Becoming debuffed or modulated is a total secret until death or scan.
9. Unsuccessful bid money is returned to the player at dawn.III. Auction House Items


Forger: Duplicate the effects of an item up for auction on the player of your choice. The duplicated effect lasts until the next auction begins.

Investigator: Town investigators will receive either "Guilty or Innocent" and a list of all debuffs. Mafia investigators will receive their targets Role (e.g Doctor, Roleblocker, etc) and a list of all buffs. Day Version - Cop/Rolecop: No difference.
Doctor: Protect your target from kills. No self doctoring. Day Version - Governor: After the majority has been hit during twilight if you so wish you can reverse the lynch and the runner-up dies instead.
Cowboy: Track your target during the night to find out who they visited. Day Version - Find out whether your target owns a gun. Includes Investigators, Mafia and Gunslingers.
Indian: Watch your target during the night to find out who visits them. No self watching. Day Version: Find out whether your target is a protective role. Includes Doctors and Sheriffs.
Gunslinger: Kill somebody during the night. Day Version - Vigilante: No difference.
Sign Maker: Your targets actions will be redirected into a secondary target of your choosing. Day Version - Vote Thief: Target someone, they lose their vote for today and it becomes yours. The second vote is made in secret.
Sheriff: Your target will not perform any actions. You stop their role from working for a night. Day Version - Vote Blocker: Target someone, their vote is nullified for the rest of the day, meaning their votes are not counted.
Jailkeeper: Your target is both Doctored and Roleblocked, meaning they cannot be killed and they will not perform any actions. Day Version - Warden: Your target is Vote Blocked and cannot be lynched for that day.
Wish: Send the GM the name of a character from a movie. The GM will customize and give you a power themed after that character.

Modulators


Broken: The power gives every appearance of working, but does effectively nothing 50% of the time (coin flip).
Psychic: When you action, submit a guess as to what your target's role is. If you guess correctly, you gain a second shot of your action to be used at your discretion.
Day: You may only use your power during the day.
Non Consecutive: You may not use your power two nights in a row.
Double-Shot: You have two shots of your power which you may use either at the same time or spread across different nights. Afterwards you lose your power.
Anxious: You can only action during the day before the halfway point of the deadline. For example, if the deadline is 7 days, you can only action in the first 3 1/2 days of the phase.
Gladiatorial: You can only use your action during the night on people who voted for you during the day.
Bloodthirsty: If there is ever a no-lynch, you cannot action on the following night. However you can action normally like 'Unlimited' if this is not the case.

Buffs


Survivor: If you're alive when any win condition is met, you win also.
Bulletproof: The first kill on you will not work.
Vengeful: When you are lynched, you can choose to kill someone on your wagon.
Ascetic: All night actions directed at you are reflexively roleblocked and have no effect except kills.
Bending: You may redirect any actions used on you during the day to a target of your choosing.
Ninja: Does not count as visiting for any actions.
Loved: Takes 1 more vote to lynch than the rest of the players.
Copying: When you target someone, you will "copy" their positive effect to yourself. This effect is permanent and cumulative.
Neighborizing: Gain a QT with your target each night. For every target there will be a fresh QT.

Debuffs

Drunk: Gain a random posting restriction. Example: You must include a song lyric in every post or you'll die.
Slow: Your actions will be delayed one day or night. For instance, if you Gunsling someone N1 the kill will go through N2.
Patient Zero: When you target someone you'll spread all negative effects both of you have to each other.
Martyr: You will always appear "guilty" to investigative reports.
Loving: If your target is lynched the following day, you will die as well.
Hated: You take one less vote than normal to lynch. For example, with 5 to lynch, you only require 4 votes to lynch.
Drifter: When you die nothing is revealed about you.

Brash: You cannot be protected from kills.

Jeanie
01-31-2014, 07:17 PM
Does Patient Zero spread itself?

Guild
01-31-2014, 08:47 PM
Of course!

Guild
02-01-2014, 10:00 PM
I had an idea for an item to sell in Auction House called a Wish and it basically makes the game super silly. So I did, naturally.

Solitayre
02-02-2014, 09:19 PM
I really don't like Thing variants and I barely understand Guild's pitch. What else ya got?

gahitsu
02-02-2014, 09:20 PM
I really don't like Thing variants and I barely understand Guild's pitch. What else ya got?

I'd repitch Bronto but I don't think this is the group for that.

Red Hedgehog
02-03-2014, 07:50 AM
I really don't like Thing variants and I barely understand Guild's pitch. What else ya got?

I have one I've been brewing up. Will get it in later in the day.

Eden
02-03-2014, 10:21 AM
Assassination of Marquis de Valor

"Gather 'round, children, and let me tell you a story from an era well before your times. The year was 1419. The Hundred Years' War raged onward, and under the stellar command of the new King of England, Henry V, and the treachery of the Burgundian snake Philip the "Good," our fair House of Valois was pressed from every side by foreign invasion, hellbent on displacing us as the rightful rulers of France. Widespread slaughter and pillaging destroyed morale among the commoners, and insidious propaganda spread by the foreign deceivers incited the peasantry to revolt and talk of bloody retribution against their divinely-ordained masters. In one remote châtelet, the situation had gotten so desperate that even the marquis's own men-at-arms weighed thoughts of murder, anger at their lord's mistreatment of his subjects burning in their hearts; among them had infiltrated some of the world's most feared and renowned assassins, with one blasphemous misdeed foremost in their minds. Let this be a cautionary tale to all of you, inheritors of this greatest of nations, that even the divine order may sometimes be disrupted. . . ."

This format is open. All roles in the game, and the number of players in each faction, will be public knowledge.

Factions
Marquis de Valor: The lord of Châtelet de Valor and his loyal men-at-arms. Their victory is assured only when all of the Black Rose Assassin's Guild has been eliminated.
Black Rose Assassin's Guild: An elite organization of frighteningly efficient assassins, hired by unknown agents to slay the Marquis de Valor. Their victory is assured only when the Marquis de Valor has been killed, or when his murder cannot be prevented.

Roles
Marquis de Valor: The lord of Châtelet de Valor, and a ruthless tyrant. An unapologetic sadist and infamously paranoid man, he mercilessly employs torture with regularity on his subjects to ascertain their loyalty to him. [X] times [limit once per night], the Marquis may select one person to torture; he will ascertain their alignment, but the torture will leave them sufficiently injured that they will not be able to speak the following day. This role is public knowledge: everyone knows the Marquis's identity.
Bodyguard: One of the Marquis de Valor's loyal men-at-arms. As long as they live, and are not roleblocked, the Bodyguards will ensure that the Marquis survives any attack on him in a given night.
Man-at-Arms: A soldier in the employ of the Marquis de Valor. They have no special powers.

Vengeance: The code name of the head of the Black Rose Assassin's Guild. Together with his assassin companions, he will choose one person at night to be assassinated. If lynched during the day, Vengeance will choose one of the Marquis's men-at-arms to take with him to the grave.
Usurper: The code name of the Black Rose's second-in-command. Together with her assassin companions, she will choose one person at night to be assassinated. During the night, she may choose to "occupy" one of the Marquis's men-at-arms: if a Bodyguard is selected, the Bodyguard will not report for duty that evening to defend the Marquis; if a Man-at-Arms is selected, that Man-at-Arms will be forced to vote with the Usurper on the following day. [The Man-at-Arms's vote will be listed as it is stated during votecount updates during the day, but will be changed at the final votecount to the player for whom the Usurper is voting.] The Usurper's target will be notified of being "occupied."
Assassin: A generic assassin within the ranks of the Black Rose. Together with his/her assassin companions, s/he will choose one person at night to be assassinated.

Sample Balance [15 players]
Marquis de Valor: 11/11
1x Marquis de Valor
3x Bodyguard
7x Man-at-Arms

Black Rose Assassin Guild: 4/4
1x Vengeance
1x Usurper
2x Assassin

Guild
02-03-2014, 11:15 AM
i think a massclaim might break that one

also 4/15 mafia is a lot!

Eden
02-03-2014, 11:19 AM
I thought about that. I think we've got just enough hiding spots to make it unbreakable, but I'll look it over and think some more on it. If all else fails I can just make it semi-open with # of roles unknown.

The mafia balance is fine though, mafia has to force four mislynches in that setup and the Marquis can clear three people guaranteed. I'm actually worried it might be townsided despite skewing relatively high in terms of mafia count for this site.

Mogri
02-03-2014, 11:20 AM
4/15 is a lot, but 4/16 isn't?

It's tricky -- the Mafia power roles are a bit stronger than normal, but a confirmed town investigator from day one is ridiculously powerful, and the game will probably come down to how lucky the Mafia gets on targeting the bodyguards.

Guild
02-03-2014, 11:28 AM
I also think 4/16 is a lot. I usually shoot for 1/5th rounded down when I make games.

Eden: Yeah I know. I feel like it's a bit outside the spirit of the game to take away a player's anonymity and force them into a specific 'role' (in the town leadership sense) rather than letting natural leaders form? Meh, whatever. I'd play it, it sounds cool regardless. Since when are mafia games ever balanced on TT?

Eden
02-03-2014, 11:33 AM
Whoops, made a mistake. Said the Marquis would get three scans; not sure that he would, depends on #s. Three might be fine since the person scanned cannot talk the next turn, but I might lower it.

Likewise I might reduce the # of bodyguards in the example, that many bodyguards would probably require the mafia to win by majority.

Also the # of bodyguards alive would be public knowledge in a semi-open version of this game. It'd defeat the point of the bodyguard mechanic (not to mention the flavor) if the mafia effectively had to win by getting a majority because they didn't know when they could actually kill the king.



I don't balance my town/mafia counts by a predetermined percentage or range. The only real way to do it IMO is to balance by # of mislynches.

botticus
02-03-2014, 01:27 PM
If lynched during the day, Vengeance will choose one of the Marquis's men-at-arms to take with him to the grave.

if a Bodyguard is selected, the Bodyguard will not report for duty that evening to defend the Marquis
I assume in both cases there's no indication to either faction of whether a Bodyguard was selected? Or is everything revealed upon death?

Eden
02-03-2014, 01:59 PM
Everything is revealed on death. There's no real getting around it: It's convention to flip on a lynch, Marquis death ends the game, assassins can't be nightkilled and everyone knows the Bodyguard count, so you'd know whether or not a Man-at-Arms or Bodyguard died anyway.

Guild
02-03-2014, 02:01 PM
Games with no-reveal mechanics piss me off anyway. How am I supposed to know when to gamble big and when to play it safe? It's just not a good mechanic I feel.

Solitayre
02-03-2014, 03:50 PM
I don't really see this one not being "do what the confirmed town unkillable investigator says every day."

I really like the historical-fiction flavor of Eden and FL's pitches though.

Falselogic
02-03-2014, 03:53 PM
I'm okay if we don't play my game. I threw the rules together pretty quickly after thinking about the theme for much too long of a time.

I'd really love input, advice, and such on how to make the game more interesting/fair/fun while staying true to the theme.

Eden
02-03-2014, 04:25 PM
I don't really see this one not being "do what the confirmed town unkillable investigator says every day."

I really like the historical-fiction flavor of Eden and FL's pitches though.
then ill just tell RNG-sus to make you investigator gg

no but really he has limited scans and ill prolly nerf it so you have to scumhunt (im thinkin' 1/8*players_in_game rounded to nearest whole #)

Guild
02-03-2014, 05:33 PM
http://imageshack.com/a/img441/6480/lv0s.png

I still have this thing too. And also this is just the 'super simplified' version of the rules. Here's an older version that's way more complex:

http://imageshack.com/a/img7/9896/c2xr.png

aturtledoesbite
02-03-2014, 05:47 PM
Say, Guild, what's stopping the Sith from just Mind Cloaking themselves for no cost?

Guild
02-03-2014, 06:21 PM
Nothing but that would be all they did that cycle, and their force would eventually accrue until they Overpowered if they didn't occasionally spend that Force. Also, if they don't have 1 Force they can't use it even though the spell is free.

Guild
02-03-2014, 07:55 PM
I guess a less confusing way to say it would be: Sith power use refunds 1 Force. Only one spell may be used per day/night cycle.

Red Hedgehog
02-04-2014, 06:38 PM
Okay, here's my pitch:

Psychic Magics Mafia

The vibrations of the crystals are off. Jupiter transits the fifth house, but a red moon shines. All through the psychic community, whispers that the demonic mystical entity Umarrod is once again attempting an incursion into our dimension - and that he has followers here who are attempting to help him cross into and take over our dimension.

Rules:

1. Breaking any rule in letter or in spirit may result in a modkill or other sanctions.
2. Post at least once per game day or you will be modkilled or replaced at GM’s discretion
3. Don’t edit or delete posts in the game thread and don’t tag it
4. Don’t post in the main Mafia: the Forum game thread
5. No communicating outside of the game thread or associated quicktopic chats.
6. No posting of screenshots or quoting of GM communications.
7. Days last 72 hours, but may end early by unanimous consent of all players. Nights end after 48 hours.

The game consists of two factions: Normal psychics who like the universe just fine the way it is and would rather just make a living by telling people they will soon find love and followers of Umarrod who would like nothing more than for him to conquer our universe and have us all live under his tyrannical rule. The game proceeds from night to day and back to night again until it is over.

Normal Psychics:
Normal psychics have the power to divine the true nature of a person. However, their skills are, at best, unreliable. In between days (including before the start of the first day), they may submit a person whose psychic energies they want to monitor. If they fail to pick a person in this period, they will be assigned a person (who is not themselves) at random whose psychic energy they pick up on. At the beginning of the day, they will get back whether they were able to read a person, and, if they were, what they felt was that person’s alignment (normal or Umarrod). It is guaranteed that one normal psychic will succeed in their scan and find the true affiliation of the person they scan. Additional psychics have a 50% chance to receive their scan result, however no more than half of all normal psychics will receive scan results. Of each additional psychic that receives a scan result, they have a 50% chance for it to be correct, however no more than half of all psychics who receive scan results will receive a correct result.

Followers of Umarrod:
Followers of Umarrod have actual psychic powers, though not like their unenlightened brethren. They can communicate with each other such that no one will know and this communication is not bound by the time of day. (Read, they get a private chat that they can use at all time - during both night and day phases). Umarrod treats his followers well and their immortal spirits, which he has claimed, may continue to psychically communicate even after death. Also, they are not against hiding in the shadows at night and shivving a dude. (Read: they can elect to kill someone at night).

Psychic purge:
During the day, both normal psychics and followers of Umarrod may vote to purge someone of their psychic powers. This effort basically leaves the person a vegetable, but it does reveal their affiliation. Votes must be in bold and on their own line like this:

I vote to purge Red Hedgehog

At the end of the day, the player with the most votes will be purged. If there is a tie, the player to be purged will be decided randomly from among those tied with the most votes.

Game over:
The game is over when either all of Umarrod's followers have been neutralized or when their number is greater than or equal to the number of regular psychics so that they can begin the ritual to bring Umarrod forth without being interrupted.

---

Comments, criticism, suggestions, or any flavor help (anything that makes sense to reflavor this game as?) welcome.

Solitayre
02-04-2014, 06:49 PM
So it's basically a game where everyone is an insane investigator? Ha.

Red Hedgehog
02-04-2014, 06:57 PM
So it's basically a game where everyone is an insane investigator? Ha.

That's the idea. That and giving people something to talk about on day one.

Droewyn
02-04-2014, 07:07 PM
That's the idea. That and giving people something to talk about on day one.

I like the look of that one! Way less complicated than some of the other proposed games -- I was pretty intimidated by those.

Gerad
02-04-2014, 07:18 PM
I'll repitch mine (http://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1645638&postcount=7236) from before. I think we need a voting option on the simpler side.

Galadrome
02-05-2014, 04:50 AM
I like Gerad's. But that's probably because I've never played Mafia and want to do something basic.

Solitayre
02-05-2014, 05:11 AM
Hmm, that's a good point. We have a couple new faces who want to join, maybe some more vanilla ideas are in order.

Ted
02-05-2014, 10:33 AM
I'd jump in for Red's or Gerad's pitches. The other pitches are intriguing but might overwhelm me as a novice participant.


Psychic Magics Mafia
...
It is guaranteed that one normal psychic will succeed in their scan and find the true affiliation of the person they scan...Of each additional psychic that receives a scan result, they have a 50% chance for it to be correct....


Is the level of certainty communicated?


Mafia: Back to the Basics
...

No cyphertext shenanigans.



Noob alert: what does this mean?



-Any days scheduled to end on a weekend (Saturday or Sunday night) will be extended to end on Monday night.

I like this. It should be standard operations, I think.

Eden
02-05-2014, 10:47 AM
Yeah, good point re: new guys. I'll withdraw my pitch until next time

Red Hedgehog
02-05-2014, 11:15 AM
Is the level of certainty communicated?

If I understand what you are asking, then no. When you receive a scan result, you have no way of knowing if it is a true result or a false result. Or if your scan was the guaranteed correct one or one of the 50% chance ones.

Droewyn
02-05-2014, 11:18 AM
I'd jump in for Red's or Gerad's pitches. The other pitches are intriguing but might overwhelm me as a novice participant.

Me, too!




Noob alert: what does this mean?

I'm guessing it means no trying to insert secret code in your posts, like how Destil made a post where the first letters of each sentence spelled out BERT.

aturtledoesbite
02-05-2014, 11:20 AM
Noob alert: what does this mean?

Apparently, in past games, people have used things like encrypted ciphers and whatnot to "safely" roleclaim. It kinda defeats the purpose of the game, so it's generally banned.

Eden
02-05-2014, 11:32 AM
I'm guessing it means no trying to insert secret code in your posts, like how Destil made a post where the first letters of each sentence spelled out BERT.
Actually I think what Destil (and Gerad) did with the first letters of each sentence is permitted. "Cyphers" here (I think) refers to shenanigans like in M26, where everyone encrypted the name of their nighttime chat partners and posted it on the main thread, then gave their partners the encryption key to prove their identities later.

Ted
02-05-2014, 11:38 AM
If I understand what you are asking, then no. When you receive a scan result, you have no way of knowing if it is a true result or a false result. Or if your scan was the guaranteed correct one or one of the 50% chance ones.

Yes, that's what I was asking. Thanks for clarifying!

Gerad
02-05-2014, 11:51 AM
I like this. It should be standard operations, I think.

The only problem is that it quickly turns into a seven-day cycle (day ends Monday night, next one starts Wednesday night, next one ends Saturday night...and get delayed to Monday night again), so I have to do a little more thinking about the implementation (i.e. whether that's what I want or another solution that avoids weekend inactivity). I like the principle too, though!

Actually I think what Destil (and Gerad) did with the first letters of each sentence is permitted. "Cyphers" here (I think) refers to shenanigans like in M26, where everyone encrypted the name of their nighttime chat partners and posted it on the main thread, then gave their partners the encryption key to prove their identities later.

That is my intent. Running things through an encryption/decryption program (or hiding things in quote/picture URLs, etc.) is not allowed, but if you can type something plaintext and point to it later, like the two examples Eden mentioned, it's fine.

Examples:

Not allowed: First posting "hnKxWSXpmiVv5B7/13ZYNJ20dJ8fiYlHZQTBl9pzvXA=" and later posting "Type this into http://encryption.online-toolz.com/tools/text-encryption-decryption.php and it will tell you who is mafia."

Allowed: Posting "Give up identifying, loser dog" and later saying "look at the first letter of each word; that's who I scanned". (The poor quality of this example shows how hard it is to actually come up with something plausible to say like this)

Eden
02-05-2014, 12:01 PM
Honestly I kinda think people are going to start looking at the first letters of every sentence from now on. Almost makes me wonder if it's even worth doing anymore. How else did we do it? Anybody remember exactly how Eddie hid something in FFT mafia?

Falselogic
02-05-2014, 12:02 PM
Honestly I kinda think people are going to start looking at the first letters of every sentence from now on. Almost makes me wonder if it's even worth doing anymore. How else did we do it? Anybody remember exactly how Eddie hid something in FFT mafia?

He hid it in an html link I think.

aturtledoesbite
02-05-2014, 12:06 PM
Honestly I kinda think people are going to start looking at the first letters of every sentence from now on. Almost makes me wonder if it's even worth doing anymore. How else did we do it? Anybody remember exactly how Eddie hid something in FFT mafia?

He used the quote number to hide an encrypted code, which had to be decrypted twice, I think.

Ted
02-05-2014, 12:16 PM
Honestly I kinda think people are going to start looking at the first letters of every sentence from now on. Almost makes me wonder if it's even worth doing anymore. How else did we do it? Anybody remember exactly how Eddie hid something in FFT mafia?

Well done, sir.


@Gerad: Cool, thanks for explaining! Oh wait, I did that wrong: "Great example; rational and decisive!"

Destil
02-05-2014, 12:57 PM
We've also used steganography before, though that was more of an anything goes rule-set (The Organization), when asked if it was allowed by the M4 mafia team in their night chat I forbade it.

Taeryn
02-05-2014, 01:43 PM
My wife and I were talking about what would make a good mafia game theme. She suggested Arrested Development, so, as a thought experiment, I wrote something up.


Now the story of a weathly family, about to loose everything, and the family members, who have no choice, but to stick together

Its
Arresting Development: A Mafia Game
Starring:

The Family (Town Aligned)
Michael Bluth - Current President of the Bluth Company. His vote breaks ties.
- Michael looses his power if his tie vote results in the arrest of a family member. He becomes Vice President, all the work, none of the power.

George Bluth - Identical Twin of Oscar Bluth. Any action that targets George has a 50% chance target Oscar instead.

Lucille Bluth - Best Frenimies with Lucile Austero. If Lucile Bluth and Lucile Austero vote for different players, Lucille Bluth’s vote counts double.
- If Lucille Austero is arrested or if both Lucilles vote for each other, their powers are both lost.

George Oscar Bluth (GOB) - Struggling Magician who can use his tricks, I mean Illusions, to protect his family from the Feds. Can hide one player each night in the “Aztec Tomb.” That player may not make any actions and any actions against them will fail.
- GOB will loose his power if the player he protects is targeted by any action, thus revealing his tr...illusion and resulting in GOB being blackballed by the Magician’s Alliance. .

Lindsay Bluth - A social and political Activist for controversial causes. She really just wants some attention. Lindsay can only be eliminated from the model home by a majority vote.
- If a day ends and Lindsay got no votes, she gets deperessed and loses her power.

Tobias Funke - The first ever analysist and therapist, an Analrapist. Tobias can try to “save” a “dying” player.
- If the player he targets is not actually dying, he has a 50% chance of Tobias’ medical liscence is revoked and he becomes an Actor with no powers.

George Michael Bluth and Maeby Bluth - Lovestruck Bunkmates and cousins. George Michael and Maeby share a room and so can share a private conversation at night.
- If they chat for two consecutive nights, their relationship has a 50% chance to escalate and it will be too awkward for them to talk and will therefore loose their power to nightchat. They will be Kissing Cousins.

Buster Bluth - Rebelliously enlists as an Army Private. Each night Buster claims to be going to army, so he is immune to night actions.
- Buster wasn’t actually in the Army, he was at the beach. If Buster is targeted by a night action, the night action fails, but everyone will realize Buster wasn’t in the army, just playing in the ocean, when his hand is bitten off by a loose seal. Buster loses his power because he’s a MONSTER.

STEVE HOLT - Third year Senior at high school who just wants to spend time with his dad. Steve can use his physical strength to remove a character from the model home and take over their room.
- Steve can only use his power until he succeeds once. If he targets GOB, both players are eliminated from the model home. If he targets George Michael, he takes over George Michael’s power.

Barry Zuckercorn - the family Lawyer. Barry can target a player with legal proceedings, which prevents a Fed player from using their ability.
- Barry’s a pretty terrible lawyer though, so if he fails to block the ability of a Fed three times the family will fire Barry as their lawyer and he will lose his power and be forced to turn tricks on the street.

Gene Parmesan - the family Private Investigator. Gene can investigate a player each night to determine if they are a Fed.
- Gene really loves to setup elaborate schemes to reveal himself to the family. As such, Gene can only reveal if he did NOT investigate someone the previous night. If he reveals without preparing, Gene looses his power.

Lucile Austero - Family Frenimies with Lucille Bluth. Would do anything to protect the family. Lucille Austero’s vote counts double if she votes for the same player as Lucile Bluth
- Lucile looses her power if her friend is arrested or if both Luciles vote for each other.

Ice - Profesional Bounty Hunter hired by the family. Can follow a player at night to find out who they targeted, if any, with a night ability.
- If Ice follows one of the female characters, they’ll think he’s interested in them and then accidentally hire him as their Party Planner and Ice will loose his power.

Bob Loblaw - The family’s backup lawyer should they fire Zuckercorn. Its not the first time he’s replaced Barry either.
- If Bob chooses to block Lindsay, she’ll think he’s coming on to him and he’ll be too busy as a Law Bomber representing Tobias in their divorce and will loose his power.

Lupe - the family’s housekeeper. Whenever a family member leaves the house, Lupe has to clean out their room, learning the roles of any players eliminated from the game.
- If Lupe reveals her information, she’ll be accused of being a Thief and fired as the family housekeeper, loosing her power.

Larry Middleman - professional Surrogate. Larry can set up an anonymous night chat with any player he chooses. He’s too professional to reveal who he really is.
- The nightchatted player may fire Larry and he will loose his power.

Rita Leeds - A mentally retarded female, or MR F. Rita can ask her Uncle Trevor to intimidate a player of her choice, forcing the targeted player to leave the model home
- Uncle Trevor will only intimidate players he feels are a threat because they ended the previous day with a vote on Rita. If Uncle Trevor intimidates a Fed out of the house, he'll be deported back to Wee Britain and Rita loses her power.


The Feds (mafia aligned)

All Feds share a night chat and may vote to arrest one player each night, eliminating them from the model home and learning their role.

Stan Sitwell - Rival Developer with alopecia. Can offer a job to any player, inviting them to join the Feds. The player may accept or decline. If they accept, their win condition is the same as the Feds, but they do not get to participate in the Fed chat or vote. Once a player accepts, the position is filled and Stan can not make any more offers.
- has a habit of losing fake eyebrows when he meets with the Bluths. No one takes him seriously without eyebrows, so his power is useless until he gets a new one at the end of the following night.

Oscar Bluth - Identical Twin of George Bluth. Any night action that targets Oscar has a 50% chance to target George instead.

Annyong Bluth - Korean Spy posing as the Bluth’s adopted 4th son. Can use his listening post in the walls of the penthouse to learn the identity of a player
- Only says Annyong which everyone interprets that as voting for himself, so any day votes cast by Annyong are counted as if he voted for himself. If Annyong gives up his power, he can vote normally

Kitty Sanchez - Company Secretary until she was fired. Any player who targets Kitty with a night action will be flashed by her and the action will fail.
- If Kitty is targeted by the same player twice, they will still be horrified, but unaffected the second time.

Warden Gentles - The prison’s Warden. The warden may put a player in jail each night, blocking their power, and any actions against them that night. They will probably have to listen to a reading of his screenplay as well…
- the Feds don’t like the warden improperly jailing people, so he can not target the same player twice in a row. If he does, the action will go through, but the Warden will be fired and lose his power for the duration of the game and pursue his dream as a Screenwriter.


Narrated by (GM, neutral)

Ron Howard - the sometimes not so neutral Narrator of the game. You can get Ron’s attention by Saying something dorogotory about Ron’s acting career (or anything in bold really) Votes must be bold and on a separate line to count like so:

I vote for Taeryn

A vote may be retracted by stating your desire to unvote or by voting for a different player.

Only player alignment is revealed on death. Any powers that may alter the lynch result will not be publicly displayed.

Days last 72 hours, Nights last 48 hours

The Feds win when their voting power equals the Family’s, unless the President power is active, then the Feds must have at least one more vote power than the Family.

The Bluths win if they eliminate all Fed players.

All players must post at least once per game day to remain active. A player will be written out of the story if they remain inactive for one game day.

These rules should be followed. Not following may result in action from the GM.
No editing posts
No use of tags
No posting in the Mafia meta thread while you're in the game.
No communication about the game outside of the game.
No direct quotations of communications by the GM, including screenshots.
No cryptography that can't be reasonably be decoded by hand
Be a good sport. Its just a game. Don't take things too personal and Don't get too personal with other people.

The game is designed for roughly 16 players. Mafia will get a town role PM in addition to their mafia role.
Any characters may start the game without their power for balance reasons.


I've never done anything like this before, so I may have made a huge mistake. What I'm really unsure about is how to balance this "thought experiment"

Guild
02-05-2014, 02:02 PM
It might be too easy to figure out who Annyoong is by forcing everyone to vote, maybe?

It still looks great, I sorta wish I'd finished the show now so I'd get all the flavor better.


The Worst-chestershire Mafia Scrambleblonkus

Rules:

1. You must break at least one rule per day or you'll die at dawn.
2. Talking about this game outside the game thread is not allowed unless your role PM specifically allows it.
3. Do not quote any part of any PM from me or use any method to try to prove your role to another player.
4. No editing or deleting posts and no tagging.
5. This is my color. Do not use it.
6. If a player has not posted within a reasonable length of time they may be prodded. Prods are cumulative, and three prods result in replacement. Giving a public notice of absence grants immunity from prods.
7. Day ends when majority of votes is reached or after 72 hours, whichever comes first. Night ends after 48 hours or 3d10 hours after the final action is in, whichever comes first.
8. The order of power resolutions is Roleblocks > Protections > Kills > Investigations, maybe.
9. The only reason I will change these rules is to fuck with people and unbalance the game arbitrarily and at random when I get bored.

Roles:

Each player will get a role they had in a previous game. Their affiliation will be randomized*. Powers which are useless, such as a Time Lord in a game with no time travel mechanics might still succeed even if it makes no sense and screws everything up for everyone. Players who have never played before will be given a few options for their role, all of which will be WINNING roles from previous games (mafia or town, alignment indeterminate) and may pick among them, giving them an unfair advantage in the extreme. The rules to this game are terrible** and you should play*.

*Not a guarantee.
**A definite guarantee.

Teaspoon
02-05-2014, 02:03 PM
Pet peeve - mixing up "loose" and "lose".

It does sort of look like Mafia has the advantage in this setup.

edit: whoops, new page problems.

Guild
02-05-2014, 02:07 PM
Don't be such a looser!

...

...I used to say alot a lot.

Destil
02-05-2014, 02:10 PM
Guild... I'd, I'd actually play that.

I mean, I don't see it getting traction as a serious for real mafia game, but I'd totally play it.

Guild
02-05-2014, 02:12 PM
Sigh. Me too. I love bastard mods so much.

Well, that's about nine pitches more than we'd probably need anyway, so when's the vote Gerad? Today? Can it start today? *wags tail*

Teaspoon
02-05-2014, 02:22 PM
I'd vote and play in Guild's crazyhouse pitch too.

Gerad
02-05-2014, 02:26 PM
Sigh. Me too. I love bastard mods so much.

Well, that's about nine pitches more than we'd probably need anyway, so when's the vote Gerad? Today? Can it start today? *wags tail*

I don't know that I'm really in charge of things around here. It's kind of a "do it if you want to" job, getting the next game organized.

But hey, I want to play too.

So far, we've got:

Falselogic's Ides of March (http://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1708950&postcount=7575)
Guild's Auction House (http://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1709049&postcount=7577)
Eden's Assassination of Marquis de Valor (http://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1710237&postcount=7584) (you can retract it if you really want to, but I tend to think the more options, the better)
Guild's Star Wars Ep I: The Phantom Mafia (http://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1710526&postcount=7596)
Red Hedgehog's Psychic Magics Mafia (http://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1711135&postcount=7600)
My Crime Mob Mafia (http://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1645638&postcount=7236)
Taeryn's Arrested Development Mafia (http://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1711635&postcount=7620)
Guild's Worst-chestershire Mafia Scrambleblonkus (http://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1711645&postcount=7621)

Anybody else working on anything? Any existing pitches need revisions? Anybody think they need to withdraw theirs?

Red Hedgehog
02-05-2014, 02:46 PM
I love the flavor of your pitch, Taeryn, but wrapping my head around its balance is hella tough.