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dtsund
01-18-2010, 08:25 PM
On another forum I used to post on we'd play a game called Mafia, and I was wondering if you guys/girls would be interested in having a game or two here. This is not an entirely unheard-of game, so if you already know the rules, feel free to skip to the bottom of the post. Everyone else, if you're interested, here are the basic rules.

The game of Mafia is played in a fictional town where each player is assigned a role. Most of the players (okay, a plurality at least usually) are Citizens with no special power. However, standard games usually also have on top of that Mafia, an Angel, and an Inspector. Their identities are secret; for example, only the Inspector knows who the Inspector is. The exception to this rule is that the Mafia know who the other Mafia members are.

The goal of all non-Mafia members is to 'kill off' the Mafia, and they win if this occurs. The Mafia win if their numbers are equal to or greater than the numbers of all innocent players. For the record, you can be considered to have won even if your in-game self was killed, so a dead Mafioso still wins if the Mafia win.

Play proceeds like this: first, we start with a 'day phase'. During this phase, all players who are still alive may post in the game's thread, trying to determine who the Mafia are. In addition, players may make accusations against other players; if another player seconds an accusation against a suspected Mafia member, that suspect is allowed to make one more post defending himself, after which voting on him/her begins. Each player (including the accused) may vote AYE or NAY on whether to lynch him/her; if the majority of remaining players vote AYE, he is 'lynched' by the town and ejected from the game, and day phase ends. If at least half of the remaining players vote NAY, he is cleared and day phase continues with more discussion and accusation. To prevent any sort of filibustering from going on here, I'm going to make the rule here that no player may be accused twice in a row in the same day.

After day phase ends, we enter night phase. Posting in the game's thread is forbidden in night phase, but each player may exercise the power given to them by their role:

Citizens have no power except to wait for day phase again.

Mafia may send Private Messages to one another (only during night phase), and may also PM the person running the game (probably me the first time) with the username of one player who they'd like to rub out that night. Unless that player is saved by the Angel (see below), he will be ejected from the game.

The Angel may send a PM containing a username to whoever's running the game. That person will, for the current night only, be safe from Mafia kills.

The Inspector may send a PM containing a username to whoever's running the game. The game's moderator will reply stating whether that player is a Mafia member or not.

In general, the night phase lasts for either 24 hours (subject to debate, but probably not less than that) or until all submissions have been recieved. After night phase, the game proceeds to another day phase, continuing until one side wins.

Now, I'm not going to say how many Mafia and Citizens there will be, since I don't know how many of you will be interested. If the game gets large, there are some other roles I can add too, and if it's huge we might even have multiple Inspectors and Angels (or I might break it into two games, since especially large games can get a little unmanageable).

Some basic strategy: you are allowed to claim that you have a particular role, but you are not required to tell the truth. In general, it is not best for the innocent power roles to come forward right at the start of the game, for this makes them easy targets for the Mafia. However, it might be a good tactic later on in certain situations. If someone does, though, keep in mind that they may be Mafia in disguise...



So who's interested? If this sounds like a game you might want to play, feel free to post below to sign up. You'll be required to respond to a confirmation PM (those who wouldn't respond would probably just stop playing after a while; the PM is to screen such inactives out), but then you'll be in the game when it starts. I'll probably close off signing up for the game this weekend.

EDIT: I meant to put this in the Pit of Flames, but I guess it could go in either one. Feel free to move it if you want.

EDIT 2: Links to all the games are now here!

The unthemed Game 1! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=9425)

Game 2, East Sicily edition! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=9655)

Game 2, West Sicily edition! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=9656)

The computer virus-filled Game 3! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=9884)

Game 4: The Thing (Lower deck)! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=10091)

Game 4: The Thing (Upper deck)! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=10092)

Planescape: Mafia Game 5! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=10467)

Mafia Game 6 in the wild west! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=10692)

Mafia Game 7: Space Colony Libra! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=10823)

Mafia Game 7: Space Colony Gemini! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=10822)

Game 8: Mafia vs. Capcom! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=10968)

Mafia Game 9: Moblashed! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=11159)

Game 10: MafiaHack! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=11434)

Mafia Game 11: secret agents at sea! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=11624)

Superheroes vs. supervillains: Mafia Game 12! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=11784)

The Mafia Game 13 thread, sadly, seems to have been lost in one of the forum moves.

Game 14: Shin Mafia Tensei: Nocturne! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=12136)

Game 15: MafiaHack II! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=12325)

Mafia Game 16: Problem Sleuth! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=12452)

Game 17: My Little Pony: Friendship is Mafia! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=12616)

"Mafia" Game 18: The Organization II! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=12773)

Mafia 19: The Succession! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=12909)

Bullet Hell: Mafia 20! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=13107)

Game 21: The Thing II! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=13321)

Game 22: The Princess Bride Mafia! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=13828)

Game 23: MafiaHack III: This Time It's Personal! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=13980)

Planescape 2: Mafia Game 24! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=14138)

Game 25: Lufia 2: Rise of the Mafia! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=14295)

Mafia Game 26: Dirty Dancing! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=14446)

Mafia 27: Talking Time edition! (http://talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=14701)

PapillonReel
01-18-2010, 08:39 PM
I'm down. Let the games begin.

Comb Stranger
01-18-2010, 09:32 PM
Sure, I love whackin' guys.

Lucas
01-18-2010, 09:45 PM
I'm in, but I'll be pretending the mafia guys are werewolves.

DemoWeasel
01-18-2010, 09:52 PM
What about werewolf mafiosos?

Lucas
01-18-2010, 10:00 PM
That is also acceptable.

Silent Noise
01-18-2010, 10:00 PM
Sounds fun, I'll join.

dtsund
01-18-2010, 10:04 PM
I'm in, but I'll be pretending the mafia guys are werewolves.

What about werewolf mafiosos?

In fact, it's a pretty accepted variant to have one evil faction be Mafia and another be werewolves. I wasn't going to bring it up, because this is only done in rather large and complicated games, and I wanted to keep the first game simple, but in such games there's also a 'Seer', which is like the Inspector except he finds werewolves instead of Mafia, and a 'Sorceror', who protects from werewolf kills. The Mafia aim to kill all the werewolves and outnumber the town (and vice versa), so there are really three sides in that variant.

Comb Stranger
01-18-2010, 10:07 PM
If we get enough people, can we do Mafia/Werewolf/Ninja/Scissors/Communists/Hill Orcs/Scandinavians/Cupcakes?

Brickroad
01-18-2010, 10:11 PM
I will play. Oh, yes.

Lucas
01-18-2010, 10:27 PM
In fact, it's a pretty accepted variant to have one evil faction be Mafia and another be werewolves. I wasn't going to bring it up, because this is only done in rather large and complicated games, and I wanted to keep the first game simple, but in such games there's also a 'Seer', which is like the Inspector except he finds werewolves instead of Mafia, and a 'Sorceror', who protects from werewolf kills. The Mafia aim to kill all the werewolves and outnumber the town (and vice versa), so there are really three sides in that variant.

That sounds pretty complicated. All I know is that every time I've played this game it's been in real life as the Werewolves of Millers Hollow.

fanboymaster
01-18-2010, 11:58 PM
Count me in.

Paul le Fou
01-19-2010, 01:29 AM
I'll give this a whirl!

Wolf
01-19-2010, 02:44 PM
I'm in.

Epithet
01-19-2010, 02:44 PM
I'll join, it should be fun.

dwolfe
01-19-2010, 03:01 PM
I really suck at these things, if you peek at the Qt3 forums.

That being said, I'm IN. I'm totally trustworthy and on your side, guys!

Phantoon
01-19-2010, 03:09 PM
Yes please.

Umby
01-19-2010, 03:41 PM
I'm in as well. I like playing mafia, but it's better if you know the people you're dealing with.

spineshark
01-19-2010, 03:44 PM
I'll go for it.

Guesty
01-19-2010, 04:49 PM
I'm in.
I've been in a mafia game or two before but they failed due to inactivity. I hope this doesn't happen here!

Red Hedgehog
01-20-2010, 12:27 AM
Begin crotchety rant:

Man, I can't believe Mafia/Werewolf/etc. are played as forum games. The whole point of those games is the face to face social interactions where you try to suss out who's bluffing which you just kind of can't do over the internet where it is easy to perfectly lie. The game just loses its point and becomes random!

Ugh.

End crotchety rant.

I will not be playing, no.

Brickroad
01-20-2010, 12:29 AM
I will not be playing, no.

Thanks for posting, grandpa.

Merus
01-20-2010, 12:40 AM
If Red Hedgehog's out then I'm totally in. COMPLETELY POINTLESS BURRRN

dtsund
01-20-2010, 12:58 AM
Initial batch of confirmation PMs sent.

Since we already have enough for a decent game, would anyone like me to start early? I'll still leave the signup open for a second game that could run at the same time if so.

EDIT:

SOME THINGS I'VE FORGOTTEN TO MENTION:

I'm going to make the night phase 48 hours, rather than 24. I though 24 might be a bit draconian.

When someone dies, whether by Mafia or lynching, I'm leaning toward that their role becomes known to all. This is actually not a standardized rule; in some games, it's played that if the Mafia kill someone, only they know what the victim's role is. Any preferences either way?

Under no circumstances are you to post a screen capture of the PM giving you your role!

Brickroad
01-20-2010, 01:18 AM
Let's not reveal roles. The game is crazier if you play it with imperfect information all the way to the end.

(Then again I've never played a forum version.)

(And I've only played the RL version once.)

(And it was with werewolves. But gangsters are better so whatevs.)

Also I just re-read the first post and wanted to clarify some rules:

1) Do mafiosos not know who their fellow mafiosos are on the first day?

2) Is it possible to end a day phase without someone dying?

Merus
01-20-2010, 01:33 AM
I want to clarify a strategy point: is there any reason why the Mafia would nominate someone from the Mafia for a hit?

Brickroad
01-20-2010, 01:34 AM
I want to clarify a strategy point: is there any reason why the Mafia would nominate someone from the Mafia for a hit?

Absolutely: doing so deflects suspicion off yourself.

dtsund
01-20-2010, 09:21 AM
Also I just re-read the first post and wanted to clarify some rules:

1) Do mafiosos not know who their fellow mafiosos are on the first day?

2) Is it possible to end a day phase without someone dying?

Good questions.

1) They do know who the other Mafia are. The PM giving the Mafia their role also gives them this information.

2) By majority vote, we can proceed directly to night phase with no lynch. Forgot to mention that...

Phantoon
01-20-2010, 12:12 PM
Absolutely: doing so deflects suspicion off yourself.

So Brick is fiendishly cunning...

dwolfe
01-20-2010, 01:25 PM
Good questions.

1) They do know who the other Mafia are. The PM giving the Mafia their role also gives them this information.

2) By majority vote, we can proceed directly to night phase with no lynch. Forgot to mention that...

Ok, one BIG REQUEST.

The 48 hour turns? Mandatory and UNCHANGING, no voting to end early. It gives way too much advantage to people that happen to be on earliest in the day, and prevents that social interaction and bluffing that Red Hedgehog thinks can't happen online.

You need long turns so people can reply back and forth, especially if they don't log on during the day at work...we also need a vote for a starting day so people aren't going to miss the first day's early action and get screwed over thusly.

More than once in a forum Werewolf game I've seen the GM end the turn early because most of the votes are in...YET VOTES CHANGE. In the current Qt3 one (Paranoia-themed) i just got killed because they ended the turn at 24 instead of 48 hours...half the people were all 'oh noes someone has the ultimate security clearance we give up' and the other half were asleep...yet it's clear we could have countered the move if the turn hadn't ended.

dtsund
01-20-2010, 02:33 PM
Ok, one BIG REQUEST.

The 48 hour turns? Mandatory and UNCHANGING, no voting to end early. It gives way too much advantage to people that happen to be on earliest in the day, and prevents that social interaction and bluffing that Red Hedgehog thinks can't happen online.

You need long turns so people can reply back and forth, especially if they don't log on during the day at work...we also need a vote for a starting day so people aren't going to miss the first day's early action and get screwed over thusly.

More than once in a forum Werewolf game I've seen the GM end the turn early because most of the votes are in...YET VOTES CHANGE. In the current Qt3 one (Paranoia-themed) i just got killed because they ended the turn at 24 instead of 48 hours...half the people were all 'oh noes someone has the ultimate security clearance we give up' and the other half were asleep...yet it's clear we could have countered the move if the turn hadn't ended.

Do you mean day phase should be 48 hours, or night phase should be 48 hours?

And yeah, voting for the first day start might be a good idea. I propose Saturday; if anyone objects, let me know.

Silent Noise
01-20-2010, 02:41 PM
I would say that we say start on friday but do what you want, you are in charge.

Phantoon
01-20-2010, 03:08 PM
I would be in favour of the dead player's status not being revealed until the end; not knowing if you've managed to kill any Mafioso or not adds to the paranoia. Also 48 hours is good for me in my time zone - it means I won't miss as much.

dwolfe
01-20-2010, 03:18 PM
Do you mean day phase should be 48 hours, or night phase should be 48 hours?

And yeah, voting for the first day start might be a good idea. I propose Saturday; if anyone objects, let me know.

It can be 24 hours per day and per night, or 48 for one and not the other, whatever you think best; opinions welcome. Just make it an iron-clad rule that's how long turns take until you get an unanimous vote to advance. That way it's impossible to be blindsided by a turn advancing before its appointed time.

However, even introducing the idea you can vote to speed a turn means some people will vote to advance and check out of the game for a while.

Lucas
01-20-2010, 03:31 PM
I'll vote for starting on Saturday.

Nerdy
01-20-2010, 03:40 PM
Damn, is it too late to join?

dtsund
01-20-2010, 04:06 PM
It can be 24 hours per day and per night, or 48 for one and not the other, whatever you think best; opinions welcome. Just make it an iron-clad rule that's how long turns take until you get an unanimous vote to advance. That way it's impossible to be blindsided by a turn advancing before its appointed time.

However, even introducing the idea you can vote to speed a turn means some people will vote to advance and check out of the game for a while.

Okay, I understand what you mean.

Night phase remains unchanged, lasting either 48 hours or until I get all submissions. To prevent any Mafia from acting unilaterally or ending their PM discussions before their time, I will require unanimous submissions from all of them to end the night early.

Day phase will always last at least 24 hours. If someone gets a majority vote to be lynched before then, the day will continue until 24 hours have passed and in the meantime people may continue to discuss in the thread and change their votes.

Damn, is it too late to join?

Nope! Confirmation PM sent.



ADDENDUM:

Since there seems to be interest in doing so, I will not be revealing the roles of the Mafia kills. If you really want me to, I'll also not reveal the roles of those killed in the day, but I think that kills some of the logic and strategy you get in these games. Additionally, I'm adding three new roles:

Miller: Thinks he's a normal Citizen, and only has the powers of a Citizen. However, he's got kind of a shady past, and if the Inspector investigates him, he'll get a guilty result. I honestly don't know why this role is called Miller, but I've seen him all over the place before.

Vigilante: Technically on the side of the Citizens, but very hot-tempered. And owns a shotgun. Can kill one person per night like the Mafia, but may also elect not to, since he can easily make his own situation worse. The Vigilante gets to know the role of his victims, but nobody else (besides the Oracle) does.

Oracle: In touch with the spirits of the dead. Gets to know the roles of those killed by the Mafia and Vigilante.

Eddie
01-20-2010, 04:35 PM
I would like to join if still possible.

- Eddie

Silent Noise
01-20-2010, 04:40 PM
Oh heavens yes, tell us the roles of those killed off in the day, maybe just tell everyone the roles of the dead at the end of the day?

Lucas
01-20-2010, 04:50 PM
Oh yeah, we definitely need to know the roles of those lynched during the day. Otherwise we'll just be lynching people basically at random.

dtsund
01-20-2010, 04:53 PM
I would like to join if still possible.

- Eddie

Consider it done.

PapillonReel
01-20-2010, 05:01 PM
Oh heavens yes, tell us the roles of those killed off in the day, maybe just tell everyone the roles of the dead at the end of the day?

Oh yeah, we definitely need to know the roles of those lynched during the day. Otherwise we'll just be lynching people basically at random.

Dittoing these.

Merus
01-20-2010, 06:00 PM
If you really want me to, I'll also not reveal the roles of those killed in the day, but I think that kills some of the logic and strategy you get in these games.

I agree with Brickroad in that imperfect information makes the strategy that much sweeter, but at the same time I think I'd probably go a little mad.

A compromise, perhaps? Reveal the role of the previous day's lynching at the end of the day phase, so there's at least one decision the citizens and special players have to make without very good information.

Silent Noise
01-20-2010, 06:31 PM
I agree with Brickroad in that imperfect information makes the strategy that much sweeter, but at the same time I think I'd probably go a little mad.

A compromise, perhaps? Reveal the role of the previous day's lynching at the end of the day phase, so there's at least one decision the citizens and special players have to make without very good information.

That might be too much since most people are doing for the first time, as I said, why not at the end of each day period we get a list containing the roles of all the people* who died.

*Or werewolves if you roll that way.

Ruik
01-20-2010, 06:33 PM
If you're still adding people, I'd like to join as well.

dtsund
01-20-2010, 06:58 PM
If you're still adding people, I'd like to join as well.

'kay, PM sent.

vaterite
01-20-2010, 08:02 PM
If you're still adding people, I'd like to join as well.

This.

demonkoala
01-20-2010, 08:16 PM
If you're still adding people, I'd like to join as well.
Heyooo

Also, 48 hours is a most excellent thing.

dtsund
01-20-2010, 09:08 PM
This.

Heyooo

Also, 48 hours is a most excellent thing.

Done and done.

Warg
01-20-2010, 09:22 PM
At this rate, half the replies to this thread are going to be confirmation posts from yourself!

... and it's mostly because of posters like me, who want to join in last minute. This game could be interesting!

dtsund
01-20-2010, 09:51 PM
At this rate, half the replies to this thread are going to be confirmation posts from yourself!

... and it's mostly because of posters like me, who want to join in last minute. This game could be interesting!

Sent!

dwolfe
01-21-2010, 07:50 AM
One other thing:

especially since this is many people's first game, i assume you'll start two threads, right?

One is the RULES thread, OOC talk is allowed, but do not reveal anything that can affect a game (oh man, only one mafia left would be rather...bad). The GM can post replies on rules clarifications here without revealing the identity of the person asking as well as answer PM's on rule disambiguation. Winning conditions, timing of turns, things specifically disallowed, etc.

The other is the GAME thread, where it's rather helpful to stay in character and not rules lawyer, so people don't have as many pages to catch up on between times they log on.

dtsund
01-21-2010, 09:57 AM
One other thing:

especially since this is many people's first game, i assume you'll start two threads, right?

One is the RULES thread, OOC talk is allowed, but do not reveal anything that can affect a game (oh man, only one mafia left would be rather...bad). The GM can post replies on rules clarifications here without revealing the identity of the person asking as well as answer PM's on rule disambiguation. Winning conditions, timing of turns, things specifically disallowed, etc.

The other is the GAME thread, where it's rather helpful to stay in character and not rules lawyer, so people don't have as many pages to catch up on between times they log on.

I think I'll keep this as the rules/signup/OOC thread (including signups for any future games, which may (read: probably will) be run by other people), while starting a new thread for the game proper.

Anyway, I feel this bears mentioning: I intend to start the game at (or around, but probably at) noon on Saturday. If you have not responded to your confirmation PM at that time, you will not be able to play.

Rai
01-21-2010, 01:18 PM
Since you haven't officially started yet, I'm assuming we can still join? This game actually intrigues me, and I want to see how this can be done on a forum.

And I may get to off some guys. I'm down with that.

Loki
01-21-2010, 01:50 PM
I assumed this was a topic about Facebook's Mafia Wars and avoided it until now. Really, you should have gone with werewolves to avoid any confusion.

(Please let me play.)

dtsund
01-21-2010, 02:11 PM
Since you haven't officially started yet, I'm assuming we can still join? This game actually intrigues me, and I want to see how this can be done on a forum.

And I may get to off some guys. I'm down with that.

I assumed this was a topic about Facebook's Mafia Wars and avoided it until now. Really, you should have gone with werewolves to avoid any confusion.

(Please let me play.)

Oh, all right. Since you asked nicely.

But seriously, sure. If you post here saying you want to play, get my PM, and reply to that before I start sending out the role PMs, you're in. Noon Saturday, Mountain time!

Bongo Bill
01-21-2010, 03:34 PM
I play this game all the time elsewhere, but I'm not going to have time for this one due to how many others I'm playing. I'll totally be down with your next one, though.

dtsund
01-21-2010, 07:36 PM
Notice: Alice has still not responded to her confirmation PM. I'm just warning you: if you don't, you won't be able to play.

Silent Noise
01-22-2010, 10:23 AM
Right before we start, could you post a list of all the people playing please?

dtsund
01-22-2010, 10:50 AM
Right before we start, could you post a list of all the people playing please?

Certainly, I was planning on it. As of right now, the list is:

PapillonReel (CONFIRMED)
Comb Stranger (CONFIRMED)
Lucas (CONFIRMED)
Shinji-Fox (CONFIRMED)
Silent Noise (CONFIRMED)
Brickroad (CONFIRMED)
fanboymaster (CONFIRMED)
Paul le Fou (CONFIRMED)
Wolf (CONFIRMED)
Epithet (CONFIRMED)
dwolfe (CONFIRMED)
Phantoon (CONFIRMED)
Umby (CONFIRMED)
spineshark (CONFIRMED)
Guesty (CONFIRMED)
Merus (CONFIRMED)
Alice (CONFIRMED)
Eddie (CONFIRMED)
Ruik (CONFIRMED)
vaterite (CONFIRMED)
demonkoala (CONFIRMED)
Warg (CONFIRMED)
Rai (CONFIRMED)
Loki (CONFIRMED)

...as you can see, everyone so far has confirmed.

kaisel
01-22-2010, 10:59 AM
If there's still time to sign up, I'd be willing to give it a shot.

dtsund
01-22-2010, 11:52 AM
If there's still time to sign up, I'd be willing to give it a shot.

PM sent.

dtsund
01-22-2010, 06:08 PM
NOTICE:

I have just realized that I have a prior engagement tomorrow that will prevent me from being online at noon, Mountain time. Therefore, I will be delaying the game's start by eight hours.

I intend to send out role PMs in approximately 6 hours, so people will get a chance to absorb their role and think about what they will do on the first day. 20 hours after that is when I'll start the game thread. If you still want to play and haven't registered yet, you need to both register and respond to the confirmation PM before I send out the role PMs, so don't delay!

As it currently stands, there are 25 players:

PapillonReel
Comb Stranger
Lucas
Shinji-Fox
Silent Noise
Brickroad
fanboymaster
Paul le Fou
Wolf
Epithet
dwolfe
Phantoon
Umby
spineshark
Guesty
Merus
Alice
Eddie
Ruik
vaterite
demonkoala
Warg
Rai
Loki
kaisel

If nobody else joins, I think I will assign the roles as follows:

5 Mafia
1 Inspector
2 Angels
1 Vigilante
1 Oracle
1 Miller (who thinks he's a Citizen)
14 Citizens

The Mafia are starkly outnumbered, but the Citizens will be working with imperfect information and there is only one Inspector. The Angels' protection covers kills from both the Mafia and the Vigilante; if they try to kill someone and fail, this will be made known.

Merus
01-22-2010, 06:52 PM
In the role PMs, can you put a reminder of that role's job and abilities? I've already forgotten what the Vigilante does.

dtsund
01-22-2010, 07:16 PM
In the role PMs, can you put a reminder of that role's job and abilities? I've already forgotten what the Vigilante does.

I was already planning on it. Might be good to have them here too, though, so:

Mafia: the bad guys. During the night phase, they are allowed to PM one another about the game (this is otherwise forbidden). All of them are to send me the name of the person they agree to whack that night; if the Angel doesn't save that person, he will be killed and only the Mafia and Oracle get to know what his/her role is. They win if they ever outnumber the innocents, and lose if they're wiped out.

Vigilante: on the good side, but is a loose cannon. May choose to kill one person each night, or abstain from doing so (since there is a very good likelihood of killing an innocent). Only the Vigilante and the Oracle get to know the role of the victim.

Inspector: every night, gets to send me one name. He'll get a positive result if the inspection target is a Mafia (or Miller!), a negative result otherwise.

Angel: a benevolent soul who has the power to prevent people from being killed at night. Sends me a name, and that person cannot be killed that night, by either the Vigilante or Mafia. May choose to protect himself.

Citizen: no special powers.

Miller: like a citizen, but shows up as guilty under inspection. Doesn't know he's the Miller. I have no idea why the role is called Miller.

Emcee Escher
01-22-2010, 10:01 PM
NOTICE:I intend to send out role PMs in approximately 6 hours, so people will get a chance to absorb their role and think about what they will do on the first day. 20 hours after that is when I'll start the game thread. If you still want to play and haven't registered yet, you need to both register and respond to the confirmation PM before I send out the role PMs, so don't delay!

Didn't see the thread till today, so I know I'm really pushing the time limit for registration, but I'd love to play if you see this before you send out the PMs.

dangerhelvetica
01-22-2010, 10:07 PM
Can I be Clamps?

dtsund
01-22-2010, 10:27 PM
Didn't see the thread till today, so I know I'm really pushing the time limit for registration, but I'd love to play if you see this before you send out the PMs.

Can I be Clamps?

Sent out! If you get them, hurry and respond!

dwolfe
01-22-2010, 11:20 PM
Wait. No one at all can PM at all? Or only the Mafia, only at night? Or....

Man, please please post a basic rule list in the morning. 90% of all my past werewolf games were PM heavy, public light (which was annoying at times)

dtsund
01-23-2010, 12:04 AM
Wait. No one at all can PM at all? Or only the Mafia, only at night? Or....

Man, please please post a basic rule list in the morning. 90% of all my past werewolf games were PM heavy, public light (which was annoying at times)

The rule is that nobody can PM each other, except for the Mafia at night. All other discussion takes place in the open. I'll try to get a comprehensive rule set in the OP for the game's thread.

And registration is over now! Emcee Escher confirmed in time, but criminallyinane didn't, so the final player list is

PapillonReel
Comb Stranger
Lucas
Shinji-Fox
Silent Noise
Brickroad
fanboymaster
Paul le Fou
Wolf
Epithet
dwolfe
Phantoon
Umby
spineshark
Guesty
Merus
Alice
Eddie
Ruik
vaterite
demonkoala
Warg
Rai
Loki
kaisel
Emcee Escher

I'll be sending out role PMs as soon as I run everyone through my role-randomizing Python script. There will be:

5 Mafia
2 Angels
1 Inspector
1 Vigilante
1 Oracle
1 Miller
15 Citizens

Red Hedgehog
01-24-2010, 09:28 PM
I've never heard of a mafia game where we cannot talk in private; forming private coalitions is core to my understanding of the game.

I find this fascinating. I've only played the real life version of mafia/werewolf which is much like this - all communication during the day has to be public. Allowing private communication would completely change the game - certainly an interesting variant. Of course, this online variant also seems to allow unlimited communication by mafia during the night. In the real life version, the only thing they are allowed to do is communicate who they want to lynch with no discussion of why (Basically a nomination and vote process).

Lucas
01-24-2010, 09:44 PM
Yeah, I was talking to someone last night about this game and discussing the differences between this forum variant and the real-life version. I'm actually kinda sad that the little girl character can't really be done online, since she's such an interesting thing to play.

Brickroad
01-24-2010, 09:45 PM
The flip side is that you can do things online you can't do in real life, like let the Mafia collaborate behind closed doors.

I guess the idea is that the mob is orderly, structured and freely share information, while the rest of the town is stricken with paranoia. And, uh, judging by the game thread, it's working!

Silent Noise
01-24-2010, 10:59 PM
I have a question, if everyone who does things at night does what they want, do the mafia have the option to skip ahead to day if they all PM you about it?

dtsund
01-24-2010, 11:01 PM
I have a question, if everyone who does things at night does what they want, do the mafia have the option to skip ahead to day if they all PM you about it?

Indeed! I think I said as much in the thread's OP.

Comb Stranger
01-24-2010, 11:01 PM
Any variation would work, just differently. In a game where the civvies can PM, you would need more Mafia, since their advantage is somewhat lessened.

OOH OOH, variation idea: The Witness

In addition to a role, everyone is given a set of randomly-chosen descriptors. Ethnicity, body type, clothing, distinguishing feature, etc, chosen from a limited list. You might have 4 tall people, 4 chubby people, 3 short ones, and 4 thin ones. Unlike the roles, these are public. After someone is whacked, the GM tells a random civilian a distinguishing trait of the killer (who would be chosen at night during the mob vote). That information, if believed, could vastly narrow down the suspects. They could come out and report it, risking themselves and hoping to be believed, or make a quiet note of it until they have a profile to vote on.

So lets say the Mafia offs a guy; Jimmy sees it happen, but only makes out that the killer had a brown coat. He comes out with it at the town meeting, and the Mafia, figuring it's too vague a clue to risk blowing their cover over, doesn't try to contest it. Nothing comes of it, but the next night, Bobby witnesses someone getting an Italian necktie from a distinctly Canadian looking fellow. Again, not much, but Bobby's been having suspicions about a certain brown-coated Canadian, so he convinces the townsfolk to lynch him. Etcetera, etcetera.

Brickroad
01-24-2010, 11:19 PM
OOH OOH, variation idea: The Witness

http://zappa.cc/loose/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/whinwoiscasa.jpg

Silent Noise
01-26-2010, 07:35 PM
Oh man, I had an awesome idea, new class ghost this person is normally just a villiger with no powers but when they die they get to choose someone they take to the grave with them, or in simple terms when ghost dies, he chooses a person to kill.

PapillonReel
01-26-2010, 07:37 PM
Oh man, I had an awesome idea, new class ghost this person is normally just a villiger with no powers but when they die they get to choose someone they take to the grave with them, or in simple terms when ghost dies, he chooses a person to kill.

Someone's feeling a little vengeful. ;)

You know, that's not a half bad idea...

Silent Noise
01-26-2010, 07:41 PM
Someone's feeling a little vengeful. ;)

You know, that's not a half bad idea...

Nooooo... I'm feeling dead, hence the avatar.

But really this could give a reason to hesitate to kill, on the chance that it could come back to haunt you.

dtsund
01-26-2010, 07:44 PM
Oh man, I had an awesome idea, new class ghost this person is normally just a villiger with no powers but when they die they get to choose someone they take to the grave with them, or in simple terms when ghost dies, he chooses a person to kill.

That's actually a pretty neat idea. Mafia's pretty malleable in terms of what roles can do. Inspector and Angel (or roles with different names but the same function) are present in almost every game I've ever seen, but other than that there's a lot of room for creativity, and I like this one.

Some restraint is called for, though. I don't think I'd want to play another game with a Wizard, for instance ('swaps' two people each night; if he swaps A and B, for instance, and the Mafia choose to kill A and the Inspector investigates B, B gets killed and A gets inspected. The Inspector would not be told this.).

Lucas
01-26-2010, 07:45 PM
Actually, I think there is a character like that in Werewolves of Millers Hollow

PapillonReel
01-26-2010, 08:18 PM
The Ghost and Witness are really good role ideas, though I'm not sure how you would be able to work out the latter without giving away too much information. Either way, it'd be cool to see them in a later instalment.

From this list of variations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_(party_game)#Variations), I'd like to see the Traitor (opposite of Miller; appears innocent but works with Mafia) and Thief (blocks an action from one role every night) be incorporated at some point as well. Balancing out the role alignments seems like a good thing to do, and the latter role's ability sounds like a great way to add some extra suspense to the game. Being able to have a bunch of unique, interesting effects without going overboard seems like the best way to really mold the game to a TT-unique thing.

dwolfe
01-26-2010, 08:25 PM
Quick rules clarification. Does one EVER know if a mafia member is successfully killed, or do we just lynch day after day and wait for a night when the mafia doesn't kill to know we won?

I assumed we'd at least know mafia when they're dead, if not good guy roles. So we could, y'know, keep a running count?

dtsund
01-26-2010, 08:27 PM
You know, I was going to comment on your suggestion regarding Medic/Angel, but you erased it right before I clicked the Quote button. Here's what I was going to say:

I debated on what to call the class, but decided to go with Angel because of its interaction with some semi-accepted roles in more complicated games: Priest and Devil. The Priest, every night, names one person and gets a positive result if he named an Angel, Devil, or Inspector. The Devil is the same, except he works for the Mafia and inspect for Angel, Priest, or Inspector. The Devil knows who the Mafia are, but the Mafia don't know who he is.

EDIT:

Quick rules clarification. Does one EVER know if a mafia member is successfully killed, or do we just lynch day after day and wait for a night when the mafia doesn't kill to know we won?

I assumed we'd at least know mafia when they're dead, if not good guy roles. So we could, y'know, keep a running count?

I usually play so that Vigilante kills are known, but it seemed like you all wanted the night kills to be unknown. I won't tell you if Mafia have been killed by Vigilante (or even Mafia, if they have some crazy tactics), that'll be up to the Vigilante him/herself or the Oracle.

I'll tell you when and if you've won, at least. I once saw a game where the jerk running it let the game go for a few more days after the Citizens had won...

PapillonReel
01-26-2010, 08:31 PM
Yeah, I deleted my comment about that because it didn't really seem all that important to dwell on in the long run. On reflection, odds were you had a good reason going with Angel so best let it go.

Silent Noise
01-26-2010, 08:34 PM
The Ghost and Witness are really good role ideas, though I'm not sure how you would be able to work out the latter without giving away too much information. Either way, it'd be cool to see them in a later instalment.

From this list of variations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_(party_game)#Variations), I'd like to see the Traitor (opposite of Miller; appears innocent but works with Mafia) and Thief (blocks an action from one role every night) be incorporated at some point as well. Balancing out the role alignments seems like a good thing to do, and the latter role's ability sounds like a great way to add some extra suspense to the game. Being able to have a bunch of unique, interesting effects without going overboard seems like the best way to really mold the game to a TT-unique thing.

I think the witness seems like it would fit better in a different sort of game, the Thief seems overpowered unless he just has to guess.

But really I think if we want the perfect game, take it slow, try out one new class at a time, I say that 2 ghosts is enough without going overboard, so before each new game how about we vote on which new class to add.

Silent Noise
01-26-2010, 08:54 PM
Oo, I had another great idea, Living Bomb he thinks he's just a normal person but he was a test subject so that when he dies he explodes and takes the life of his killer, if it was a vigilante then it's simple, when it's a mafioso then it's random which of them die, same if the villigers lynch him, it's random.

What do you think of the Living Bomb and Ghost guys, can we try 'em next game? I think it adds a level of fear and caution to killing, which otherwise has no random elements, it should also be mentioned that the ghost does not know who killed him.

PapillonReel
01-26-2010, 09:10 PM
I think the witness seems like it would fit better in a different sort of game, the Thief seems overpowered unless he just has to guess.

Having it so they'd have to guess would be a fair compromise, I think, but the only problem is that it'd potentially give the Thief Inspector-like powers. This would be especially damning for the Angel or Vigilante, since finding out their kills were stopped would out the person right away, though it could be played around.

Alternatively, having them choose a role would give a large amount of power over certain proceedings but larger games with multiple people per role might be a moderating factor.

Comb Stranger
01-26-2010, 09:56 PM
Can we all accuse and vote on multiple accusations, or if someone jumps the gun do we have to get a full nay vote first?

Eddie
01-26-2010, 10:12 PM
Out of curiosity, is there anything we could do for us dead guys? Privy to top secret information or anything? I know that creates the potential for cheating, but given the amount of trust we're already placing on players not to PM during night time hours, I'm hoping maybe people would be okay with me knowing who the mafia are, or getting 'oracle' like powers or something.

Dunno, I'm just glued to the game and want to work it since I'm a corpse now.

- Eddie

dtsund
01-26-2010, 10:17 PM
Out of curiosity, is there anything we could do for us dead guys? Privy to top secret information or anything? I know that creates the potential for cheating, but given the amount of trust we're already placing on players not to PM during night time hours, I'm hoping maybe people would be okay with me knowing who the mafia are, or getting 'oracle' like powers or something.

Dunno, I'm just glued to the game and want to work it since I'm a corpse now.

- Eddie

Eh, the more people with this information, the more likely it is to be leaked. Sorry...

Can we all accuse and vote on multiple accusations, or if someone jumps the gun do we have to get a full nay vote first?

Need a full nay.

Eddie
01-26-2010, 10:19 PM
No problem, I just want to be like, that parent whose kid is on a popular reality TV show, but I leak the information before it airs, and then my kid is disqualified, and this is why I shouldn't ever have kids.

Edit: Oh, here's a question, can the dead players PM each other? I'm kind of stretching here I guess.

- Eddie

dtsund
01-26-2010, 10:21 PM
Edit: Oh, here's a question, can the dead players PM each other? I'm kind of stretching here I guess.

- Eddie

There's no reason why not.

Silent Noise
01-26-2010, 10:35 PM
Edit: Oh, here's a question, can the dead players PM each other? I'm kind of stretching here I guess.

- Eddie

What's up? Do you want to chat about the game or something?

I'm going to sign my name on here in honour of you.

- Silent Noise

Brickroad
01-26-2010, 11:14 PM
Hmm.

I caught someone editing their post in the game thread, which included what I thought was crucial information.

Out the person for breaking the rules? Or keep the info under my hat for personal use? Decisions, decisions...

PapillonReel
01-26-2010, 11:21 PM
Hmm.

I caught someone editing their post in the game thread, which included what I thought was crucial information.

You mean my earlier post, I take it. Ahh... sorry about that. It's just that I wasn't sure if the info I was bringing up was allowed or not. Plus I'm an edit whore, which doesn't help things either. :/

For the sake of the rules, I'll repost it in entirety. Sorry, everyone!

Brickroad
01-26-2010, 11:24 PM
You been a baaaaaaad boy, Pappy.

PapillonReel
01-26-2010, 11:25 PM
:(:(:(

Lucas
01-27-2010, 01:34 AM
I wonder if Miller is a name, not an occupation. I'm thinking it might come from some part of Werewolves of Millers Hollow I never played with, some story thing about Miller being connected to the werewolves without being one....

Silent Noise
01-27-2010, 01:45 AM
Alright this is the last class idea I'll suggest, Spirit simular to the ghost but instead of stealing someone's soul, you instead are given a person to haunt, what you do is you PM them all the info you have and share with them your thoughts on what people say or what someone's class might be, it's like a second opinion for yourself only, the person the spirit is asinged to is the Ghost whisperer who is a villiger except they gain the ability to talk with the spirit.

I forgot to mention that these classes with the exception of the Ghost whisperer do not know that they are their class untill they die.

Ruik
01-27-2010, 01:50 AM
I guess this is where I really should be asking this: Does the Miller show up as Mafia when killed, always and forever?

Brickroad
01-27-2010, 01:53 AM
I'll chime in on the "what new roles should we have" topic with: none. Or as close to none as possible. The core rules are interesting enough to me as it is without complicating things by finding a way for someone to break each of them.

Maybe I'll change my mind after I've played a few games.

Paul le Fou
01-27-2010, 08:29 AM
I like the witness idea but let's get a handle on the normal rules before we go crazy with new stuff, yeah.

dtsund
01-27-2010, 09:08 AM
I guess this is where I really should be asking this: Does the Miller show up as Mafia when killed, always and forever?

No, whoever kills the Miller (be it town, Vigilante, or Mafia) will be told that they've killed the Miller.

That'll also be when the Miller finds out that he/she is actually the Miller.

dwolfe
01-27-2010, 10:06 PM
And a good guy goes down in flames. Can't explain actions till the game is over....Can't wait for the game to end and give my After Action Report. Luck, guys!

(PS: being lynched, rather than killed at night, you guys certainly know I was a good guy by the declared rules. this isn't the case for all dead people, so think before you post here before the game is over)

Brickroad
01-27-2010, 10:11 PM
I'm probably going to have as much fun reading the postgame reports as I am playing the actual game.

Guesty
01-28-2010, 04:14 PM
Yeah, same. If there's an archive of mafia postgame reports somewhere on the internet I'd love to read it.
________
Vapir No2 Vaporizer (http://vapirno2.net)

shivam
01-30-2010, 12:48 PM
so i've been following these threads, and i still dont have a clue how they work. how do the citizens have any information at all to go on? do you just make random shots in the dark and hope you hit a mafioso?

dtsund
01-30-2010, 01:40 PM
so i've been following these threads, and i still dont have a clue how they work. how do the citizens have any information at all to go on? do you just make random shots in the dark and hope you hit a mafioso?

You know everything the citizens do. The general flow is usually that they start out knowing nothing, but gradually get more information as the game progresses. Like right now, they know that Comb Stranger is (probably) innocent.

Later on (say, when some Mafia have been found), the game gets more interesting as you can try to logically deduce from the previous posts who's guilty. It starts out very shot-in-the-dark, but gets more methodical as the game progresses (it's still somewhat early, only 3 kills in a game this large).

Brickroad
01-30-2010, 01:44 PM
so i've been following these threads, and i still dont have a clue how they work. how do the citizens have any information at all to go on? do you just make random shots in the dark and hope you hit a mafioso?

You should play the next round with us, shivam. This shit is off the hook.

Silent Noise
01-30-2010, 06:22 PM
You should play the next round with us, shivam. This shit is off the hook.

Seconded.

dwolfe
01-30-2010, 11:42 PM
Like right now, they know that Comb Stranger is (probably) innocent.

And that I certainly was!

It's at least as much about what you think you know as what you actually know. Assumptions are a bad thing in these games if you're on the wrong end of them; on the right end, they can be used to your advantage.

Zithuan
01-30-2010, 11:55 PM
I sort of wish I was playing even though I know I wouldn't really have the time for it. I'm finding this highly entertaining though, and I think I have pretty strong guesses about 3 of the powered roles (not counting PapillionReel, though I did pick up on his Vigilante taunt). It's so hard to bite my tongue, but the clues are out there guys! :P

Go team Civilians!

dwolfe
01-31-2010, 04:39 PM
1.) I don't appreciate the personal attacks. But keep at it, you're doing great. I'm stopping following along, though.

2.) Read the god damn rules guys. PapillonReel, NO EDITING.

I know it's most of you guy's first times, but you sure know how to make it non-fun for at least one person.

I'll see you guys in the AAR's.

PapillonReel
01-31-2010, 04:40 PM
2.) Read the god damn rules guys. PapillonReel, NO EDITING.

I can't help it, damn it. If I see a typo, I have to edit it out.

Silent Noise
01-31-2010, 04:45 PM
1.) I don't appreciate the personal attacks. But keep at it, you're doing great. I'm stopping following along, though.

2.) Read the god damn rules guys. PapillonReel, NO EDITING.

I know it's most of you guy's first times, but you sure know how to make it non-fun for at least one person.

I'll see you guys in the AAR's.

I honestly think that the vast reason they think that is because most of them haven't played yet and it takes a bit to realise that even when the odds are against you lynching is the only real way of gaining information, it may or may not get better. By the way, the main reason I accused you on the first day was because you were the only one that had a chance of getting a second accusation. Unless I was a mafioso and just wanted to stir up trouble, you know the correct answer though D.

Brickroad
01-31-2010, 04:47 PM
It's a game, dwolfe. Don't take it so personally.

Merus
01-31-2010, 05:22 PM
I am sorry if my choice of words offended you, but what I was trying to express was probably going to turn out as an insult no matter what I said. Your conduct in a game does not reflect on your personality! If it did, I'd be a murderer of innocent citizens, and as far as you know I don't kill anyone.

Brickroad
01-31-2010, 05:32 PM
Your conduct in a game does not reflect on your personality! If it did, I'd be a murderer of innocent citizens, and as far as you know I don't kill anyone.

Well there was that one guy, but he was asking for it.

Loki
01-31-2010, 08:26 PM
Am I allowed to post now that I've made my defense one or do I have to remain silent throughout the vote?

dtsund
01-31-2010, 09:09 PM
Am I allowed to post now that I've made my defense one or do I have to remain silent throughout the vote?

Nope, post away. The reason the rule's there is so that someone doesn't come to the thread and find he/she's been lynched without getting any chances to argue a case.

Comb Stranger
02-03-2010, 11:27 AM
Sorry everybody! If it wasn't clear by the other post, I haven't had real access to a computer since around Wednesday, and won't 'until further notice'. Even then, the surge knocked something out on my 'puter, so that'll take some fiddling or a reformat to get going again. I can get some time in the lab now and then, but it just went into night, so... bollocks. Anyway, just assume I'm still in the hospital for my multiple gunshot/explosion wounds.

vaterite
02-03-2010, 03:00 PM
So sorry to hear about all your troubles. The game isn't the same without you.

Brickroad
02-03-2010, 03:35 PM
Sorry everybody! If it wasn't clear by the other post, I haven't had real access to a computer since around Wednesday, and won't 'until further notice'. Even then, the surge knocked something out on my 'puter, so that'll take some fiddling or a reformat to get going again. I can get some time in the lab now and then, but it just went into night, so... bollocks. Anyway, just assume I'm still in the hospital for my multiple gunshot/explosion wounds.

Here's hoping you aren't slaughtered mercilessly during your absence!

Merus
02-03-2010, 06:25 PM
Thanks for not lynching me! I tried to do it myself but Brickroad wouldn't let me.

Dizzy
02-03-2010, 06:34 PM
Next round it is so on.

Silent Noise
02-03-2010, 07:30 PM
Next round it is so on.

Oh god Dizzy would own us all, we would never be able to tell what Dizzy is thinking.

Dizzy
02-03-2010, 07:52 PM
I'm not unpredictable.

That is, if you've been paying attention! Nyahahaha!

That was really bad, but I'm putting that out there for you Silent Noise.

Brickroad
02-03-2010, 08:05 PM
It's easy to tell what Dizzy is thinking. At any moment he is thinking exactly the opposite of what you think he thinks you're thinking he's thinking.

dtsund
02-03-2010, 08:23 PM
It's easy to tell what Dizzy is thinking. At any moment he is thinking exactly the opposite of what you think he thinks you're thinking he's thinking.

That's just what he wants you to think.

Silent Noise
02-03-2010, 09:47 PM
It's easy to tell what Dizzy is thinking. At any moment he is thinking exactly the opposite of what you think he thinks you're thinking he's thinking.

That's just what he wants you to think.

http://i50.tinypic.com/r1h8if.gif

Brickroad
02-03-2010, 09:47 PM
That radioactive milkshake looks delicious.

shivam
02-03-2010, 09:49 PM
its a melon soda float, and fucking good at that.

Silent Noise
02-03-2010, 09:50 PM
That radioactive milkshake looks delicious.

Why thank you! I'm going to drink it and free my self from this
NEVER ENDING LOOP OF LOGIC!

Edit: Yeah shivam knows his stuff. tl;dr it's not radioactive.

Brickroad
02-03-2010, 09:52 PM
It looks like mountain dew with a scoop of vanilla on top.

(Note to self: have mountain dew and a scoop of vanilla for breakfast tomorrow morning.)

dtsund
02-03-2010, 09:57 PM
(Note to self: have mountain dew and a scoop of vanilla for breakfast tomorrow morning.)

Don't do it! You have so much to live for!

PapillonReel
02-03-2010, 10:17 PM
(Note to self: have mountain dew and a scoop of vanilla for breakfast tomorrow morning.)

You should let us know how it turns out (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?t=5832).

Merus
02-03-2010, 10:24 PM
I'd like to suggest a new role for the mafia - a Recruiter. The Recruiter may, once per game, nominate to secretly convert one player to the mafia, in addition to all the powers mafia players already have. The player they recruit permanently changes sides.

dtsund
02-03-2010, 10:36 PM
I'd like to suggest a new role for the mafia - a Recruiter. The Recruiter may, once per game, nominate to secretly convert one player to the mafia, in addition to all the powers mafia players already have. The player they recruit permanently changes sides.

We could do this. It's not an unheard-of role, actually.

Silent Noise
02-03-2010, 10:42 PM
I'm going to beg you like a small child here dtsund, Could we use my role that you said you liked?

PapillonReel
02-03-2010, 10:51 PM
An aside, but the Recruiter gives me an idea as to how to balance out the Thief incidentally. Being able to block any role once a night is a very powerful ability, admittedly, but limiting the number of times they could do so per game (say, 2-5 times?) should force it back within the realm of playability. Maybe even allow them to go over the limit once at the expense of being ejected from the game, as a last hurrah of sorts?

Anyway, I know we shouldn't get too far ahead of ourselves just yet (especially since we're still in the early half of game 1), but I'd like to see the Ghost, Traitor, Thief and Recruiter used in a later game at some point. Special roles are fun.

Brickroad
02-03-2010, 10:56 PM
Special roles are fun.

I disagree. It's the core ruleset that's fun.

Anything that adds uncertainty to the game makes it less fun in my opinion. What's fun is that everything is nailed into place -- who's who, what's what, etc. The interesting part is uncovering the various game pieces and putting them to use. If the game pieces are moving around while you're trying to do that you might as well just be playing randomly.

To give a basis of comparison: I think all the roles we have in our current game are pretty good except for the Miller. From what I can tell the Miller has no function other than to confuse things.

Dizzy
02-03-2010, 11:16 PM
^ Concordantly.

Also I think the players in the game now should be more dramatic. They should be role-playing more explicitly. Instead of simply posting "I vote AYE" they should post instead something like 'And then John, after a long and tortured consideration, feebly voted AYE and prayed to God that his family would still be safe'.

dtsund
02-03-2010, 11:19 PM
I'm going to beg you like a small child here dtsund, Could we use my role that you said you liked?

The next game probably won't be run by me (I'd like to play), so it won't be up to me.

Merus
02-03-2010, 11:24 PM
^ Concordantly.

Also I think the players in the game now should be more dramatic. They should be role-playing more explicitly. Instead of simply posting "I vote AYE" they should post instead something like 'And then John, after a long and tortured consideration, feebly voted AYE and prayed to God that his family would still be safe'.
I would like to see a Dizzy thread where, parallel to ours, he roleplays us playing the game.

PapillonReel
02-04-2010, 12:10 AM
Anything that adds uncertainty to the game makes it less fun in my opinion. What's fun is that everything is nailed into place -- who's who, what's what, etc. The interesting part is uncovering the various game pieces and putting them to use.

Fair enough, I can understand the sentiment behind this. But even still, it's more than possible to add something new to the mix without compromising the core rules - in fact, dtsund did it himself when he chose to add in his choice of special roles. As long as we made sure to weed out the more unbalancing suggestions, why not try to expand on the game as we go along?

In fact, allowing for a few more abilities might even make the game more strategic, as you'd have to plan to uncover and use them to your advantage still.

EDIT: Huh, it seems I've been confusing the Thief with the Role Blocker - the ability is actually to deactivate the powers of one person, as opposed to blocking one role outright. Much less powerful, and careful play from the Narrator would help keep it from being a second Inspector.

Brickroad
02-04-2010, 12:33 AM
I don't like the idea of a Role Blocker because someone goes to use their special ability and... it's not there. Why? No reason, it's just not. Bleh.

The Ghost/Living Bomb is even worse. The mob has a hard enough game to play as it is without losing one of their own guys completely at random.

I'm not too hot on the Oracle either. He doesn't have an active ability, his identity can't be verified for certain in any meaningful way, and the information he collects almost always ceases to be useful the moment it's collected. What's the point, other than to have one more "special" player in the game?

PapillonReel
02-04-2010, 12:47 AM
The Oracle, at the moment, is the only way of knowing whether or not we've lost a special role. Consider this: Our main objective in the game running now is to oust the Inspector and have him draw out the Mafia. Knowing if he's still alive is very important, as it prevents us from being suckered by a clever Mafioso and leads us away from potentially self-destructive strategies.

I was talking more about the Thief instead of the Role-blocker, but either way being able to deactivate a power has its uses. Do you really want the the Devil to find out who the Angels are and relay that to the Mafia (if we went that route)? And if the Vigilante goes on a self-destructive rampage, wouldn't you want to stop him in his tracks? Deactivating a power has its uses, and can be game-changing under certain circumstances.

(The Ghost is admittedly a bit blah in retrospect, but I appreciate it allowing deceased players a chance to play after being ejected from the game.)

Having a balanced game and adding special roles aren't mutually exclusive, Brick. There's a lot of strategic value to be added by adding some variety to the roles taking part in the game.

Brickroad
02-04-2010, 12:58 AM
The Oracle, at the moment, is the only way of knowing whether or not we've lost a special role. Consider this: Our main objective in the game running now is to oust the Inspector and have him draw out the Mafia. Knowing if he's still alive is very important, as it prevents us from being suckered by a clever Mafioso and leads us away from potentially self-destructive strategies.

Yes, but in the current set-up there is no sure way to ever identify the Oracle. Anyone can claim to be the Oracle. They can't be checked or falsified like the Inspector can. What's the point in having a purely informational role if there's no way of trusting the information?

Do you really want the the Devil to find out who the Angels are and relay that to the Mafia?

You're missing the point. The idea is to have only a few powerful roles, not lots of less-powerful roles or roles specifically designed to counteract other roles. We shouldn't have a Devil, and we probably shouldn't have two Angels either.

And if the Vigilante is dealing far more damage than he should, wouldn't you want to stop him in his tracks?

If the Vigilante is a bad player, he's a bad player. What if we add in a Thief to safeguard that, but the Thief is a bad player too? What if the Inspector is a bad player? What if 3/5 Mafiosos are bad players? Etc. etc. etc. The team with more good players will win -- which is as it should be.

(The Ghost is admittedly a bit blah in retrospect, but I appreciate it allowing deceased players a chance to play after being ejected from the game.)

Yeah, players having to sit out until the next round gets fired up is a weakness in the game. I don't think giving them a revenge killing is the answer though, and neither is letting them convey information back into the game.

Having a balanced game and adding special roles aren't mutually exclusive, Brick. There's a lot of strategic value to be added by adding some variety to the roles taking part in the game.

I agree. Inspector and Angels are pretty much a given, and I don't think an online version of the game works without them. The Vigilante adds a unique function, although I'm not sure how balanced he is. Going forward, I just want to be careful that we're not throwing a bunch of roles in because "oh that sounds cool!".

It's more fun to play the game if you have a role (and you would know, wouldn't you, you lucky bastard?). The rest of us have to just be regular Joes, or the game don't work. Capice?

Silent Noise
02-04-2010, 01:21 AM
The Ghost/Living Bomb is even worse. The mob has a hard enough game to play as it is without losing one of their own guys completely at random.

Gee thanks, yeah the bomb is dumb when I think of it now, but the ghost just works as a one time vigilante, he doesn't know who the mafia are or any of that, and besides since you have so many ghosts haunting the thread already it make since for at least one to be vengeful. Yeah power blocker is boring.

PapillonReel
02-04-2010, 01:26 AM
Yes, but in the current set-up there is no sure way to ever identify the Oracle. What's the point in having a purely informational role if there's no way of trusting the information?

There is a way, though. Once we've uncovered the Inspector at some point, we can use his knowledge of any deceased innocents he's inspected so far to verify the Oracle's claims, cross-checking their list of roles with his own. At that point, we can put together a who's-who of the deceased and work from there.

And if the Inspector's already dead... well, at least we'll nab a few impostors along the way when they step forward.

You're missing the point. The idea is to have only a few powerful roles, not lots of less-powerful roles or roles specifically designed to counteract other roles. We shouldn't have a Devil, and we probably shouldn't have two Angels either.

I think it's the other way around here, Brick. If we decided to add Mafia-aligned roles in the future - and this is entirely possible, if it turns out they need an extra power to balance things out - the Thief would have a very real and very valuable use. Are we at that point right now? Probably not, but it's no excuse to ignore the option just yet.

I agree. Inspector and Angels are pretty much a given, and I don't think an online version of the game works without them. The Vigilante adds a unique function, although I'm not sure how balanced he is. Going forward, I just want to be careful that we're not throwing a bunch of roles in because "oh that sounds cool!".

And like I said, I understand the reasoning behind this. I just don't want this caution to paralyze us from adding anything new to the game, either - and really, there's only so much we can do with the core rules before it starts to stagnate.

It's more fun to play the game if you have a role (and you would know, wouldn't you, you lucky bastard?). The rest of us have to just be regular Joes, or the game don't work. Capice?

I NEVER SAID IT DIDN'T. Gawd. Of course, we'll have to have a glut of citizens - their power is in their numbers, anyway. ;)

Brickroad
02-04-2010, 01:32 AM
Gee thanks, yeah the bomb is dumb when I think of it now, but the ghost just works as a one time vigilante, he doesn't know who the mafia are or any of that, and besides since you have so many ghosts haunting the thread already it make since for at least one to be vengeful. Yeah power blocker is boring.

Don't get all defensive, brother. I see a spade, I call a spade. I just don't think a one-time unfocused attack adds much to the game.

The Vigilante is interesting because he has the same information as the rest of the players. If he's sussed out a mafioso he can go and get him. Or the rest of the players can ask him to use his power to a specific end (as we're doing right now in the current game). Or if we manage to identify two mobsters and time is critical we can lynch one and have the Vigilante kill the other.

I think the Ghost could be made interseting, but it would take some tweaking. For example, if the moderator made the Ghost's identity public at the start of Day One the mob would know exactly who to steer clear of (because hitting that player costs one of their own). The balancing issue would be that the Ghost is a trustworthy citizen right off the bat, and would be able to assume a leadership role the mob might not want him to have. The whole dynamics of the game are changed even if the Ghost never uses his power.

(I still don't want a Ghost though. Dead playas is dead, ya'll.)

Brickroad
02-04-2010, 01:35 AM
There is a way, though. Later on in the game, we can use the Inspector's knowledge of any deceased innocents he's inspected so far to verify the Oracle's claims, cross-checking their list of roles with his own. At that point, we can put together a who's-who of the deceased and work from there.

You're right, I hadn't thought of that. Of course if your Inspector is alive and well and positively IDed you... kind of have no use for an Oracle. =)

By the way, I'll probably keep playing no matter what crazy shit you guys want to throw in there. I'm just glad to have the opportunity to play at all, and we can probably all safely ignore my lofty ideals of what the game "should" be. =)

PapillonReel
02-04-2010, 01:43 AM
You're right, I hadn't thought of that. Of course if your Inspector is alive and well and positively IDed you... kind of have no use for an Oracle. =)

I dunno, instant notification when a special role is hit would be helpful to have; it'd give us a running tally of how many Mafioso are left to lynch, at the very least. Either way, we'll just have to wait and see how the current game plays out, I guess. :P

Brickroad
02-04-2010, 01:45 AM
I dunno, instant notification when a special role is hit would be helpful to have; it'd give us a running tally of how many Mafioso are left to lynch, at the very least. Either way, we'll just have to wait and see how the current game plays out, I guess. :P

Well considering Merus and I have you losers right where we want you I figure we OH GOD I'VE SAID TOO MUCH.

PapillonReel
02-04-2010, 01:53 AM
Well considering Merus and I have you losers right where we want you I figure we OH GOD I'VE SAID TOO MUCH.

You heard 'im, boys. Get the nooses ready.

Silent Noise
02-04-2010, 02:06 AM
Brick I already explained this but the ghost has as much information as a normal character, no more, no less, and if you wanted to tweak it, wouldn't it be more balanced that only the mafia and the ghost know who the ghost is? If you are one of those boring people that dislikes ghosts in fantasy games, well it could instead just be a resourceful guy, like maybe Macgiver or something.

Also if no one else has already asked, can I be the game master for the next one?

Brickroad
02-04-2010, 02:13 AM
I don't care what the various roles are called. Name them after dead presidents or breakfast cereals if it strikes your fancy. I'm just interested in the actual structure of the game, and a one-time unfocused kill that can't be controlled or planned for just doesn't add anything of value to that structure.

Silent Noise
02-04-2010, 02:23 AM
a one-time unfocused kill that can't be controlled or planned for just doesn't add anything of value to that structure.

Huh? It is entirely controlled, and it's as focused as a vigilante strike, it occurs to me that informing them that they have an ace might be a better idea, that way you can plan, besides normally there is at least one person you want to rub out, it's just a vigilante that only works under specific conditions.

Brickroad
02-04-2010, 02:33 AM
I get that it was your idea and you think it's super-rad, Silent Noise.

Silent Noise
02-04-2010, 02:40 AM
I get that it was your idea and you think it's super-rad, Silent Noise.

You cannot comprehend the form of Brickroad's attack!

You counter with a mangled quote!

"You cannot grasp it's true stratigic ability untill you've witnessed it first hand."

I really don't want to argue with one of the coolest cats on the internet. :(

Merus
02-04-2010, 03:28 AM
"You cannot grasp it's true stratigic ability untill you've witnessed it first hand."

Uh, yes we can?

I dunno, instant notification when a special role is hit would be helpful to have; it'd give us a running tally of how many Mafioso are left to lynch, at the very least.

I have seen games where the roles of mafia kills are announced to the playerbase. I imagine that the increased uncertainty these roles introduce would be more viable if we were playing with that rule.

I was trying to think of a way to make dead players useful, and this is what I came up with: replace Angels with Mediums. Dead players learn of their identity on death, and are allowed to send them PMs (mediums are not allowed to respond). Dead players become part of the Ghost faction, and can confer protection as a group in the same way Angels can, up to the amount of Mediums left alive in the game. (I'd assume that players win based on their faction in life, because otherwise dead mafia players would betray their former teammates, which is thematically interesting but doesn't make for good gameplay.)

Essentially, move the power of Angels to dead players, while keeping something for the Mafia to kill (and to sweeten the pot, the Medium players receive information that only they can hear). It's a little more thematically appropriate than Angels, too.

Brickroad
02-04-2010, 03:52 AM
That's not a bad idea. It might prolong the night phase a bit since you have to wait for the spirit vote to come in. Just to make sure I'm understanding you though:

- the game starts with one or more Mediums,
- dead Civilians move to the Spirit faction,
- each night the Spirits may PM the Mediums and
- each night the Spirits collectively vote to protect a number of players equal to the number of Mediums left alive.

I have just one thing to add: only the Medium should be allowed to send information to/make requests of the Spirits, and they must do it publically. If the civilians want to direct their protection a certain way, the Medium must make him or herself known. This would prevent a lot of wink wink nudge nudge, but it would be pretty difficult to enforce.

(Not that difficulty of enforcement should really be a concern; this game is being played on the honor system as is.)

Dizzy
02-04-2010, 04:03 AM
Isn't this game a lot like 7-Up?

I used to like that game a lot.

Merus
02-04-2010, 04:47 AM
I have just one thing to add: only the Medium should be allowed to send information to/make requests of the Spirits, and they must do it publically. If the civilians want to direct their protection a certain way, the Medium must make him or herself known. This would prevent a lot of wink wink nudge nudge, but it would be pretty difficult to enforce.

I think this limits things too much for too little gain. It takes away one of the citizens' key advantages, being able to direct protection, for the very big penalty of exposing the Medium, who are more vulnerable than Angels because they can't be sure of their own protection. Considering the Spirits are reading the thread anyway, the Medium has to communicate with them publicly, and as the game goes on the Spirit population will fracture as it grows and Mafia players enter it.

The Medium has a very strong reason to be active - they are the only way Spirits can influence arguments and communicate clues from their private arguments. As it is, the Angel has kind of a boring job, and I think this more than anything is the source of the the Angels doing the wink wink nudge nudge. It also makes things interesting for the protection mechanic, in that when a Medium dies the Spirits lose part of their ability to influence the game, and for the Vigilante, in that it becomes more valuable for them to reveal when they've killed a Mafia player.

Brickroad
02-04-2010, 04:53 AM
I think this limits things too much for too little gain. It takes away one of the citizens' key advantages, being able to direct protection, for the very big penalty of exposing the Medium, who are more vulnerable than Angels because they can't be sure of their own protection.

This may well be true, but I don't think it's a bad thing. With our current ruleset and our current roles, I'm inclined to believe the civilians already have the advantage. The mob has to kill twice as many people, have half as many opportunities to do so, and can't reliably target their biggest threats. Watering down that last bit doesn't put the civilians at a disadvantage so much as lessens the advantage they already have.

Or I don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe the mob have our number and we're all proper fucked. =)

Merus
02-04-2010, 05:01 AM
I forgot to make it explicit: Spirits can communicate with one another at any time.

Watering down that last bit doesn't put the civilians at a disadvantage so much as lessens the advantage they already have.

Information is power in this game, and the mafia get the benefit of coordination and the knowledge that very few of their available moves will disadvantage them. The protection power is already watered down somewhat - until someone dies, it can't even be used, and the more players die (which is guaranteed) the less reliable it becomes.

Brickroad
02-04-2010, 05:22 AM
Information is power in this game, and the mafia get the benefit of coordination and the knowledge that very few of their available moves will disadvantage them. The protection power is already watered down somewhat - until someone dies, it can't even be used, and the more players die (which is guaranteed) the less reliable it becomes.

Good points, all. Let's shelf the topic for now and revisit it when we're ready to start up round two. I quite like the idea, personally.

Sprite
02-06-2010, 11:07 AM
Just wanted to say I'm having a blast watching the goings on in the current game, and regret not signing up myself. It's like a reality show, except actually entertaining.

Merus
02-06-2010, 06:31 PM
I propose a voting rule change for the next game: instead of accusing, and then voting to lynch, players vote for the player they want to lynch. Players are not allowed to vote for no-one.

Brickroad
02-06-2010, 06:49 PM
I propose a voting rule change for the next game: instead of accusing, and then voting to lynch, players vote for the player they want to lynch. Players are not allowed to vote for no-one.

Probably not a bad idea. Hate to see you quit playing though, I'm-a have to win this thing single-handedly now. =)

Merus
02-06-2010, 07:05 PM
Probably not a bad idea. Hate to see you quit playing though, I'm-a have to win this thing single-handedly now. =)
Eh, if things start happening before the cull, I'll jump back off the boat. If things keep going as they are, there's not much point.

Brickroad
02-06-2010, 07:06 PM
Eh, if things start happening before the cull, I'll jump back off the boat. If things keep going as they are, there's not much point.

Really? I think things are just starting to heat up.

Sprite
02-06-2010, 09:05 PM
I think it's fairly exciting, myself. It's a forum game, so most people probably only have the time to post once or twice a day. It's going to be slow paced by nature. If my experience with the game in real life is any indication, it will get more intense by the end.
That said if someone wants to quit I'll gladly take their place...

Guesty
02-07-2010, 04:43 PM
I wish finding Mafia was a bit less of a crapshoot. Or I could just be horrible at reading people.
________
FUTURAMA ADVICE (http://www.tv-gossip.com/futurama/)

dtsund
02-07-2010, 06:06 PM
Hey, hey, hey! That was uncalled for. This thread was not marked NSFW, you know!

Red Hedgehog
02-07-2010, 06:09 PM
FWIW, like most gaming-related opinions, Brickroad's on Mafia are the correct ones.

I also appreciate that all you guys playing forum Mafia have made it entertaining to read, even if I still have no desire to play.

Brickroad
02-07-2010, 10:29 PM
FWIW, like most gaming-related opinions, Brickroad's on Mafia are the correct ones.

Hey thanks for the huge target there, buddy! =D

Ruik
02-07-2010, 10:31 PM
Hey thanks for the huge target there, buddy! =D

I think he meant your opinion on the mechanics of new classes you've been discussing in here. Or maybe not?

Phantoon
02-07-2010, 11:52 PM
Here's a question: can the angels save somebody who's been lynched?

dtsund
02-08-2010, 12:12 AM
Here's a question: can the angels save somebody who's been lynched?

...I guess? If they wanted to waste their turn?

They can't revive people or save them from being lynched, if that's what you're saying.

Paul le Fou
02-08-2010, 12:40 AM
What's this about Merus not playing anymore? I haven't seen talk of it.

I for one agree with Brick - I think things are just starting to heat up.


Question: are there rules or limits on extra-thread machinations to go through for the sake of the game?

Brickroad
02-08-2010, 05:14 AM
What's this about Merus not playing anymore? I haven't seen talk of it.

It was in the main game thread. He was being a crybaby about how the game was moving too slowly, or whatever. Nerd!

Question: are there rules or limits on extra-thread machinations to go through for the sake of the game?

If you're asking what we're allowed to do outside the thread the official rule is "nothing". Even so, I couldn't resist the urge to razz Shinji a bit over AIM when he was on trial.

Phantoon
02-08-2010, 06:45 AM
...I guess? If they wanted to waste their turn?

They can't revive people or save them from being lynched, if that's what you're saying.

I guessed as much, as you could lynch people then save them to see what they are without permanently killing them. Which would remove the need for the Inspector.

Sprite
02-08-2010, 10:08 AM
Even so, I couldn't resist the urge to razz Shinji a bit over AIM when he was on trial.

You monster

dtsund
02-08-2010, 10:53 AM
Announcement

I am seeking two replacements in the current game. Neither Wolf nor fanboymaster has responded to my call, made more than 72 hours ago, for confirmation of play. The next two people who have not already participated in the game to post here asking to play may get their spots.

Red Hedgehog
02-08-2010, 11:42 AM
I think he meant your opinion on the mechanics of new classes you've been discussing in here. Or maybe not?

Muahahahaha!

Sprite
02-08-2010, 11:51 AM
Announcement

I am seeking two replacements in the current game. Neither Wolf nor fanboymaster has responded to my call, made more than 72 hours ago, for confirmation of play. The next two people who have not already participated in the game to post here asking to play may get their spots.

Ooo! I'll play!

dtsund
02-08-2010, 02:06 PM
Very well. I shall decide which player you replace randomly, and add you to the game.

...

You will be replacing fanboymaster. Your role PM will be sent presently.

I still need one more person to replace Wolf!

Dizzy
02-08-2010, 02:16 PM
Mwah? (Meaning: me) or is it too late?

dtsund
02-08-2010, 02:25 PM
Mwah? (Meaning: me) or is it too late?

No, it's not too late.

You will be replacing Wolf. Your role PM will be sent presently.

Comb Stranger
02-08-2010, 03:39 PM
Hello, fellow townsfolk, good to see you again! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheOtherDarrin)

Brickroad
02-08-2010, 08:58 PM
I think it would be about six kinds of funny if the mob had already selected Wolf or fanboymaster to kill.

"Welcome to the game! You're dead."

Paul le Fou
02-09-2010, 06:20 AM
Man, today I kept checking the thread at work only to realize that night phase lasts 48 hours, not 24. I was so disappointed. Tomorrow's gonna be busier at work too so I may not be able to check it as soon either D:

vaterite
02-09-2010, 05:28 PM
Man, today I kept checking the thread at work only to realize that night phase lasts 48 hours, not 24. I was so disappointed. Tomorrow's gonna be busier at work too so I may not be able to check it as soon either D:

When will the morning sun vanquish this terrible night?

dtsund
02-09-2010, 06:53 PM
My apologies; was busy at sunrise.

I don't have time to write a story at the moment, unfortunately (I may come back to that later), so I'll just say that Umby was killed. By both the Mafia and the Vigilante. You're a popular guy, Umby.

Day begins.

shivam
02-09-2010, 08:21 PM
can someone explain how the night phase works? do the mafia PM each other or?

Paul le Fou
02-09-2010, 09:01 PM
can someone explain how the night phase works? do the mafia PM each other or?

During the night phase the mafia can PM each other and then send in to the game master a decision on whom to kill. The vigilante can send in their own murderous decision. The angels send in a decision on whom to save. At the end of the night phase, those people are killed/saved accordingly. Also, the inspector sends in a single username and finds out that person's role. It lasts for 48 hours after a vote to lynch someone or end the day phase without a lynch.

dtsund
02-09-2010, 10:35 PM
During the night phase the mafia can PM each other and then send in to the game master a decision on whom to kill. The vigilante can send in their own murderous decision. The angels send in a decision on whom to save. At the end of the night phase, those people are killed/saved accordingly. Also, the inspector sends in a single username and finds out that person's role. It lasts for 48 hours after a vote to lynch someone or end the day phase without a lynch.

This, except that the Inspector only gets a guilty or innocent verdict, not the person's role (innocent could mean Citizen, or Vigilante, or Angel, or anyone but Mafia or Miller).

Also, the Mafia get PM'd back with the role of the person they killed, the Vigilante gets PM'd back with the role of the person he/she killed (assuming these kills were made and successfull), and the Oracle gets PM'd with both of those.

Brickroad
02-10-2010, 01:47 AM
SHIT GOT REAL

PapillonReel
02-10-2010, 01:50 AM
Where doing it man

Where MAKING THIS HAPEN

Paul le Fou
02-10-2010, 02:18 AM
ffffffffffff I am glad I don't have to lose sleep over this thanks to the time zone. Productivity at work is a different matter...

Rai
02-10-2010, 06:02 AM
I was going to finish a paper when I got up this morning. Instead, I read the entire game shifting to high gear.

It's a good thing, but man. Man. We're about to get intense.

Merus
02-10-2010, 06:32 AM
SHIT GOT REAL

HOLD ONTO YOUR HATS BECAUSE SHIT JUST WENT FROM REAL TO LUCID

Incidentally, I'm in this for the long haul. Holy shit, go day 5.

fanboymaster
02-10-2010, 09:27 AM
Computer troubles got me replaced, damn.

Sprite
02-10-2010, 10:12 AM
Where doing it man

Where MAKING THIS HAPEN

YOU EDITED THAT POST!

Computer troubles got me replaced, damn.

Sorry! I was chomping at the bit to play. No hard feelings, I hope?

Dizzy
02-10-2010, 12:58 PM
Something just dawned on me and I don't even know how much of an impact it will have but...

...during the night phase, couldn't someone check the "Who's Online?" forum function and look at the roster of people PMing each other and make some head or tails from that?

DemoWeasel
02-10-2010, 12:59 PM
I think that point was brought up before, though I'm not sure what became of it.

Dizzy
02-10-2010, 01:01 PM
Yeah because I could look at the list of people in the game right now, and then during the night phase see which one of them starts 'Private Messaging' and then maybe draw some conclusions. That looks like a really big hole there and the only reason I'm bringing it up instead of keeping it secret for interests of sabotage is because it could kill ALL THE FUN.

Comb Stranger
02-10-2010, 01:22 PM
Considering night phase lasts bloody forever, I doubt anyone would stake out the roster long enough to catch anyone. And if the Mafia is super paranoid, they could just use AIM or a chatroom or something; we're already trusting them to only PM at night.

Sprite
02-10-2010, 01:30 PM
The game is based on trust, ironically.

dtsund
02-10-2010, 02:06 PM
Something just dawned on me and I don't even know how much of an impact it will have but...

...during the night phase, couldn't someone check the "Who's Online?" forum function and look at the roster of people PMing each other and make some head or tails from that?

Yeah, when I was writing the rules, I didn't know this was even possible (to see who's PMing one another). It kind of goes against the spirit of the game, and I'd like people to refrain from it.

Comb Stranger
02-10-2010, 02:07 PM
Trust to lie and cheat within the boundaries of the rules.

Dizzy
02-10-2010, 02:28 PM
Well the mafia should now start e-mailing and IMing each other if they're smart.

spineshark
02-10-2010, 02:31 PM
Trust to lie and cheat within the boundaries of the rules.
Well, the rules necessitate lying. Subversive metagaming, not so much.

fanboymaster
02-10-2010, 03:15 PM
YOU EDITED THAT POST!

Sorry! I was chomping at the bit to play. No hard feelings, I hope?

I blame myself, not you.

Paul le Fou
02-10-2010, 07:53 PM
A clarification question: if we lynch the Miller does he show up as the Miller or as a citizen?

Something just dawned on me and I don't even know how much of an impact it will have but...

...during the night phase, couldn't someone check the "Who's Online?" forum function and look at the roster of people PMing each other and make some head or tails from that?

The night phase is 48 hours long. A lot of people will send PMs for entirely unrelated reasons over a 48 hour timespan.

But it's worth a shot! Dizzy I nominate you to check.

Dizzy
02-10-2010, 07:55 PM
"A lot of people"

And the list of people in the game? That narrows things down.

dtsund
02-10-2010, 11:59 PM
A clarification question: if we lynch the Miller does he show up as the Miller or as a citizen?

Miller.


The night phase is 48 hours long. A lot of people will send PMs for entirely unrelated reasons over a 48 hour timespan.

But it's worth a shot! Dizzy I nominate you to check.

Yeah, when I was writing the rules, I didn't know this was even possible (to see who's PMing one another). It kind of goes against the spirit of the game, and I'd like people to refrain from it.

Paul le Fou
02-11-2010, 01:39 AM
I was mostly joking to get Dizzy to sit glued to his computer for 48 hours. I do not in fact condone watching for PM lists.

Merus
02-11-2010, 07:03 AM
Here's an interesting town role I found on this implementation of Mafia (http://www.epicmafia.com/home): the Mason is a town-allied role, that can convert players to Masons, one per night. Masons can communicate with each other, but if they convert a Mafia player, they all die. (If they convert a power role, that power role disappears from the game).

Dizzy
02-11-2010, 12:48 PM
We need a recording angel who doesn't participate the game but summarizes everything that has happened during each phase.

A boring, boring role but useful!

Umby
02-11-2010, 02:30 PM
My apologies; was busy at sunrise.

I don't have time to write a story at the moment, unfortunately (I may come back to that later), so I'll just say that Umby was killed. By both the Mafia and the Vigilante. You're a popular guy, Umby.

Day begins.

Facepalm. I even knew what one of the mafia was because of a method I used, and I forgot to tell everyone. Then that mafioso told the rest of the mafia, and they killed me. What I'm confused about is why the vigilante tried to kill me.

Dizzy
02-11-2010, 02:46 PM
Hey, no hinting of hints! :p

Sprite
02-11-2010, 03:25 PM
Here's an interesting town role I found on this implementation of Mafia (http://www.epicmafia.com/home): the Mason is a town-allied role, that can convert players to Masons, one per night. Masons can communicate with each other, but if they convert a Mafia player, they all die. (If they convert a power role, that power role disappears from the game).

Masons could be fun, but I think we'd need a larger number of players to make it worth it. The risk of losing everyone would definitely make them skittish.

Boy, that site has some bizarre roles. Third parties like the cultists are interesting, but Insane Cops? Seriously?

Guesty
02-11-2010, 07:03 PM
Geez, I suck at this game.
After I die, I'd like some tips on how I could have done better.
________
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Merus
02-11-2010, 07:42 PM
Geez, I suck at this game.
After I die, I'd like some tips on how I could have done better.
We'll see if you're actually out first. But dwolfe and Shinji just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Paul le Fou
02-12-2010, 03:03 AM
Trying to defend yourself would have helped. When you get accused and are on trial, it would help to make more than a single one-sentence post on your own behalf.

Merus
02-12-2010, 05:13 AM
Trying to defend yourself would have helped. When you get accused and are on trial, it would help to make more than a single one-sentence post on your own behalf.
I don't know, by that point it was basically over. By the time dwolfe was formally accused, anything he said only cemented in our minds that he was guilty.

The time to act was several (real-world) days ago, when you were fingered as a possible suspect, or when I decided that you were #2 on the list to deal with. As it turns out, Epithet decided to shoot up the rankings when demonkoala opened up the possibility of night phase. That sort of thing happens all the time, and you need to take advantage of it when it does. It generally never works accusing your accuser, but you can easily divert attention.

Brickroad
02-12-2010, 10:31 AM
Geez, I suck at this game.
After I die, I'd like some tips on how I could have done better.

Don't worry about it. Though you are dead you are still going to win.

Guesty
02-12-2010, 01:14 PM
I don't know, by that point it was basically over. By the time dwolfe was formally accused, anything he said only cemented in our minds that he was guilty.

The time to act was several (real-world) days ago, when you were fingered as a possible suspect, or when I decided that you were #2 on the list to deal with. As it turns out, Epithet decided to shoot up the rankings when demonkoala opened up the possibility of night phase. That sort of thing happens all the time, and you need to take advantage of it when it does. It generally never works accusing your accuser, but you can easily divert attention.Thing is, I didn't even notice I was accused because I was away from Talking Time at the time (I was doing some schoolwork, I think, or I was at school), and I didn't notice that the thread blew up until I came back. I was at school when I died too and I didn't even notice that I was dead until just now. Also, I thought being overly defensive would have been more suspicious.

I feel kinda dumb now though. Any more tips would be nice though...
________
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Phantoon
02-12-2010, 03:06 PM
I woke up and someone was dead. That was fast.

demonkoala
02-12-2010, 03:48 PM
I woke up and someone was dead. That was fast.
I come home from work to see this.
You know, I wasn't too sure how I felt about the kid, but in the end, it didn't matter. Everyone's votes were in.

...and unanimous.
...and he's innocent.

Face it Guesty, no one likes you :( in mafialand

shivam
02-12-2010, 03:51 PM
the only tip you need for this game is talk more. if you're silent, you die.

DemoWeasel
02-12-2010, 04:03 PM
Proof: Silent Noise was the first to be offed.

Brickroad
02-13-2010, 02:46 AM
the only tip you need for this game is talk more. if you're silent, you die.

I think you should play with us next round, shivam.

Silent Noise
02-14-2010, 01:46 AM
So Dtsund since it's basically the endgame out of curiousity has anyone else mentioned running the next game to you? I'm noticing that the mafia seem to have a severe disadvantage at this point, depending on how many people want to play I think the Godfather role might be helpful to them next game.

dtsund
02-14-2010, 08:59 PM
So Dtsund since it's basically the endgame out of curiousity has anyone else mentioned running the next game to you? I'm noticing that the mafia seem to have a severe disadvantage at this point, depending on how many people want to play I think the Godfather role might be helpful to them next game.

Insofar as I have any power, I was going to put this to a vote. But let that come after this game is finished and we have time to dissect what went on. :)

shivam
02-14-2010, 09:11 PM
I think you should play with us next round, shivam.

ok, i will.

Paul le Fou
02-14-2010, 09:30 PM
I've thought I might be interested in running the next game, too, although that was before I got more into this one. Now I'm not sure!

Guesty
02-14-2010, 09:47 PM
the only tip you need for this game is talk more. if you're silent, you die.Hm, yeah. I felt like I was trying to be careful to avoid being suspicious by asking for reasoning, but that led to me getting lynched.

Why was being a curious player suspicious?
________
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Brickroad
02-14-2010, 09:50 PM
Hm, yeah. I felt like I was trying to be careful to avoid being suspicious by asking for reasoning, but that led to me getting lynched.

Why was being a curious player suspicious?

There isn't anything you can do that doesn't seem suspicious. Alice was super-quiet the whole thread and everyone suspected her. I did nothing but talk nonstop and everyone suspected me, too. Agreeing to lynch dwolfe and/or Shinji-Fox was suspicious, but so was defending them. To say nothing of the contentious vote on whether to move directly to night.

Meanwhile, the guy who pulled the stupidest move in the game is not only still alive but one of the civilians' most useful and trusted players. Go figure!

Comb Stranger
02-14-2010, 10:33 PM
The Mafia had to blow me up twice. I'm satisfied with that.

Paul le Fou
02-14-2010, 10:53 PM
I would say that it wasn't curiosity itself, but curiosity in the wrong places. When you asked for more info about Alice's accusation and why a quiet player seemed guilty, it sounded like you were leaping to her defense - and since you should have had no more to go on than the rest of us, and therefore should have had no particular reason to defend her, that made it seem like you had a vested interest in her innocence - which makes us wonder why that might be.

Just questioning seems suspicious - if we say someone is suspicious and then you ask for clarification with little else, you just seem like you're providing resistance to the suspicion. Adding in counter-arguments or suggestions or even pros and cons for whichever suggestion has been made could serve to seem like you were more vested in the discussion itself.

Partially it's psychological from there - one slip-up like that and we start to view the rest of your actions through that filter of what-if, or maybe-he... and it begins to look suspicious. It invites scrutiny which usually invites suspicion. And with little else to go on in a game all about having little to go on, that leads to the gallows.

Merus
02-15-2010, 12:06 AM
Meanwhile, the guy who pulled the stupidest move in the game is not only still alive but one of the civilians' most useful and trusted players. Go figure!

I maintain that it only looked stupid; I strongly suspected that no-one would call my bluff, and if they did, well as I said I'd been preparing a defence for a while, and I expected people would not want a repeat of dwolfe's lynching.

It's really luck about what opportunities you have, but you have to be able to seize them as soon as they appear.

Edit: I wouldn't mind running the next game; I'm pretty sure I can't top my performance in this one.

Lucas
02-15-2010, 12:08 AM
I assumed he meant Papillon's outing of himself as an angel.

Brickroad
02-15-2010, 12:12 AM
I assumed he meant Papillon's outing of himself as an angel.

I did. Merus and I have both made some pretty hilarious missteps, but Pappy's blunder actually caused me to facepalm.

"I'm the angel! This is a great strategy! OH WAIT FUCK."

Re: next game. Let's finish this one up and have our post-game pow-wow about it before deciding what to do about the next one.

Silent Noise
02-15-2010, 12:16 AM
By the way if I am elected gamemaster I promise lower taxes, mafia insurence and no ghost class.

PapillonReel
02-15-2010, 08:36 AM
"I'm the angel! This is a great strategy! OH WAIT FUCK."

And yet it worked out for the best in the end. Hmm?

I'd like to give running the next game a try, but I'm willing to settle it with a vote and let whoever you guys want go next. Just one condition: Narrator chooses house rules. Setting up one master list of rules might be counter-productive when we'll be running this game over and over again, and it'd allow the new guy to add his own personal touches on the game.