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Destil
04-09-2010, 12:10 AM
Merus (Mar 3):
Mafia Game 2 West Speakeasy
Welcome to the Speakeasy! This little hideout will serve as your method of collaboration at night, as well as the place to nominate a player to be whacked.
I'll start a new section each game night; to share your thoughts, mouse under the existing text and click on the box that appears. You'll be able to pop your thoughts in. If you have any problems, let me know on the forum!

dwolfe (Mar 3):

dwolfe (Mar 3):
Trying to get this stuipd thing to work. It's pegging my CPU at 50% usage and is almost unusable right now.
Voting death to dtsund (spelling?), more when I get this working right, have to head out for a few hours. If I'm the only dissenting vote, cancel my vote so a kill goes through.

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
Let's make this the voting-death thread. I'm still interested in ending dtsund. Huge threat to us the longer he hangs around.

McDohl (Mar 3):
Yeah, Googlewave was doing that to me too when I first started using it, dwolfe. I restarted my browser and all seemed to be well though.
I'm also casting my vote for death to dtsund.

dwolfe (Mar 3):

Merus (Mar 3):
Day 1
I'm so lonely...
sadbear1.jpg

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
Awright, Speakeasy access. Hecks yes! It even has a sad mafia bear! This will improve the conversations immensely. I think. I hope?

Merus (Mar 3):
So do I! I haven't used it much, which you might have noticed because somehow I managed to invite you to my invitation interface =/
Is loki mafia as well?

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
Loki.

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
I took the liberty of inviting him in.

Merus (Mar 3):
Good-o!
The other mafia had some difficulty with this: it's much easier to just keep appending stuff to the bottom, especially when multiple people are logged in and it's in real time.

McDohl (Mar 3):
Okay, I'm slowly getting the hang of this. It's like driving a stick-shift. I even managed to undelete the wave from my trash! Shut up I'm awesome with comptuers srsly.
Also: HELLO SPEAKEASY LET'S KILL PEOPLE.

dwolfe (Mar 3):

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
It definitely takes some getting used to. But I still think it's better than having to PM suckas.

McDohl (Mar 3):
Yeah, I'll get the hang of this for the time being.
I'd like to point out I think Phantoon is proving to be a curious little problem, he's being awfully verbose about "clues" he's picking up from people posting in the Mafia thread and in the game thread. If anything, I'd like to keep him in the sniper view.

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
Huh, I hadn't been keeping up with that thread. Good pick, there. I wonder what he's drawing from it? Assuming that people who don't post there are mafia? Hmm.

McDohl (Mar 3):
The way I see it, when you do something like that, you've got one of three options:
1 - You're a power position, probably investigator.
2 - You're just a citizen acting like a power position, meaning you're smart and you've actually picked up on clues.
3 - You're just a citizen and you're full of shit.
Right now, if he's 1 or 2, then it's in our best interest to eliminate him. If he's 3, then he's just spewing it out of his ass. We should let him live a round and see what develops. If he hits too close to home, then we take him out on the next go.

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
I absolutely agree. He was canny in the first game, and he ain't bad. It makes me wonder if he isn't inspector or vigilante -- the power roles that need info to work. We definitely oughta watch him, and if he's using metagame info to try and finger us he needs to be ended sooner rather than later.

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
I also think it's only a matter of time before somebody turns around and fingers Nich. The vocal ones get a lot of suspicion, and I think that's going to happen tomorrow.

loki (Mar 3):
I can't visit wave at work. I'm home now though. Let's kill dtsund!

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
Torgo voted to kill dtsund via PM, right? Is this the answer we want to submit, or do we want night to last longer for any reason?

loki (Mar 3):
Yes he did. I'm ready to move on to day 2. Anyone seriously against dtsund? What would Marion say?

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
MY DAD IS A LAWYER I'M NOT MAFIA AND NEITHER ARE MY FRIENDS BYRON LOKI DWOLFE MCDOHL AND SOME OTHER GUY DON'T INVESTIGATE US

McDohl (Mar 3):
I couldn't help but think of this:
http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi1545405209/

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
I am so glad everyone on our side is on our side. We make up for a Marion. Thank you so much for that. :)

loki (Mar 3):
Oh wow. Wave is neat. I totaly watched as you typed that. Way to mis-spell "everyone" like three times.

McDohl (Mar 3):
Yeah, this shit be crazy!

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
Totally. If we could get the whole mafia

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
on at once, this would be totally amazing.

loki (Mar 3):
There's sorta three on. That's like the whole mafia. "I made him an offer he couldn't refuse." Ahahahaha. "mafia."

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
Not unlike the "made Marion" joke that went through earlier.

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
I'd love more input from Torgo, too, he's got a pretty good idea what's going on. Perceptive.

loki (Mar 3):
He said that mon-wednes was his busyest time of the week. I expect lots more input from him over the weekend. If... we've gotten into the next night phase that is.

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
We do move pretty quick during the day phase, at least. It's definitely unfortunate that he's that busy.

loki (Mar 3):
Only when we've got a moron saying "I'm not mafia! I'm not mafia!" to make things go by quickly.

McDohl (Mar 3):
This is the craziest chatroom I've ever been in.

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
So who's going to be that moron tomorrow?

McDohl (Mar 3):
That might be me, when I let slip how fascinating googlewave is!

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
Yeah, I'm totally going to be like "I didn't read the general game thread 'cause I'm too fascinated with google wave!"

loki (Mar 3):
I could say that I'm the investigator.

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
Claiming power role DOES give us a lynch-free day.

McDohl (Mar 3):
I watched you butcher that sentence like it was a dead cow. I'm not sure I like people seeing what I type before it's done!

Operabyron@googlewave.com, loki and McDohl (Mar 3):
Google wave is not kind to the touchpad on my laptop. Loki: Crazy! You can edit other people's posts?!?!?! HAHA DISREGARD THAT I LIKE COCKS. This just in, Everybody else but McDohl likes cocks.

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
This is all going to look AMAZING when we turn in our logs post-game.

loki (Mar 3):
We've got to be careful with this editing other people's posts things or else someone's going to get the impression that I have quite the cock fancy. Also, I haven't tryed it but it looks like we can delete other people's posts too?! What were you thinking Google?

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
Nope, I made the original post, so fire's on me.

McDohl (Mar 3):
Yeah, this is... really crazy.

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
Don't worry Loki, I deleted your big homosexual confession

loki (Mar 3):
AHHHHH! It worked!

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
This is a frightening devil tool.

McDohl (Mar 3):
Well, it also adds an author name to a post, so... I guess that means something.

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
Oh my god and you can play the whole sequence back as it happened pre-edit and all

loki (Mar 3):
I guess that's why we have so much power, because it keeps a record of every McDohl cock loving statement.

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
This is a tool that belongs in the hands of the mafia..

loki (Mar 3):
AND the oracle.

loki (Mar 3):
"Hey everyone! I'm the inspector. I investigated Marion and he was totally inoccent. Way to blow it everybody."

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
I am totally saying that tomorrow.

loki (Mar 3):
Hmm... shame he couldn't stick around.

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 3):
Yea, I'm a little irritated that we pretty much started at a total disadvantage because of that. WE also got mostly no info out of the day. Tomorrow will be LOTS more interesting.

Merus (Mar 4):
Okay guys, I'm seeing general agreement that dtsund is the one to go (I'm assuming Loki agrees from what he's said). I don't have to wait for Torgo, and it looks like he's going to be busy for a little while.
I am pleased to say that dtsund wasn't protected, and is dead! He was a Citizen.
Now I have to work out some bloody flavour text. Rassum frassum. (I am open to awesome suggestions: I am thinking that maybe dtsund decides to run a game of mafia and has five mysterious strangers show up at his door with their own props)

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 4):
I was going to suggest revenge for manipulating the mafia previously. :)

Merus (Mar 4):
That could work

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 4):
I actually preferred yours :)

Merus (Mar 4):
Well, it is up to you, you're the ones doing the killing.

Torgo (Mar 4):
If you're still waiting on me, go ahead and do it. If we're still in agreeance on dtsund, then let's do it.

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 4):
I believe the deed is done, and only requires a gruesome flavor text to accompany.

Torgo (Mar 4):

Merus (Mar 4):
REAL TIME HOOOOOOOO PSYCHHHH
Oh I'm a bad person.

Torgo (Mar 4):
This is much better, but it's really damn confusing.

Operabyron@googlewave.com and Merus (Mar 4):
It is, but it becomes awesome with practice. And you can edit other people's posts for MUCH COCK

Torgo (Mar 4):
How do I rock an avatar and such?

Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 4):
There's a thread in your inbox that lets you change basic settings. The Profile thread, I think. Or maybe just through the google account interface. I do not remember.

Torgo (Mar 4):
Okay, this is starting to make a little more sense.

McDohl (Mar 4):
Good evening!

Torgo (Mar 4):
Salutations. What are the image restrictions on avatar? Each time I try to load one it says its invalid?

McDohl (Mar 4):
It's a bug. They're actually uploaded if you check the photos folder.

Torgo (Mar 4):
Hm, I check my photos after the "failed" upload and it still says there's nothing there. I guess it's not all that important, I just feels all nekkid an' such.

McDohl (Mar 4):
I was experiencing the same bug, went crazy trying to figure it out. Odd that it's not working for you.

McDohl and Operabyron@googlewave.com (Mar 4):
I am still freaked out by Merus's strange obsession with male genitalia.

Torgo (Mar 4):
Yeah, it's a little strange. It's even weirder when I accidentally click on something then it thinks I wanted to type or edit something.

Merus (Mar 4):
Note: day 2 has begun. You can experiment around to your heart's content, but no discussing the game!

Destil
04-09-2010, 12:11 AM
Merus (Mar 6):
Night 2

McDohl (Mar 6):
I'd like to make Nich an honorary mafioso, if at all possible.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Absolutely. I've already put myself in the tank with him thus far. If I get hushed out and lynched, it will not bode well for him, IF we can get the investigator out of the picture.

McDohl (Mar 6):
Honestly? I pegged him as the investigator. I thought vaderite was going to be the vigilante (an investigator would have gotten a guilty message), and Nich was going to use it the next day as justification to out the next suspect on his list (me).
This is a wonderful turn of events though.

Torgo (Mar 6):
I'm not 100% sure that Nich is the investigator, but it's definitely a possibility. I imagine his call for him to be checked is an attempt to out a phony.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Of course, going into tomorrow, his position is going to be a little compromised.

McDohl (Mar 6):
I had this whole elaborate setup of accusing Nich the next day when he would out himself as the investigator to 1) defend himself, and 2) accuse me, but man oh man... He really WAS pulling it out of his ass!

Torgo (Mar 6):
Despite coming close to making his list myself, I'm very amused that of his whole list, you're the only "right" guess. He's pushed its legitimacy pretty hard though, and now that a civvie is a dead he's gonna have a tough time defending himself tomorrow.

Philip Armstrong (Mar 6):
Dohl and Byron, you two need to be careful. you're both under a lot of scruntinty.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
We are. My goal for today was to try and weaken Nich. Even if he's innocent, he's shown himself to be kind of a poor leader -- no brickroad.

McDohl (Mar 6):
The only scrutiny I'm under is Nich's though. I didn't make anybody else's "list", and I think I defended myself from Alpha Werewolf.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
I don't think he's going to gun for McD. I think I'm on the block before he is.

Torgo (Mar 6):
I wouldn't even worry too much about Nich at this point, McD. Your retraction of your lynch vote is going to look good.

McDohl (Mar 6):
Still, I'm going to be very quiet next round. I think Nich is going to try and gun for me anyway, so I may just let the chips falls wherever.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Well, the only heavy scrutiny you got was from Vorpal, Byron. I would play it by ear and see how it goes tomorrow.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
I put forth, as an idea, hitting me.

Philip Armstrong (Mar 6):
Could you expand on that? What kind of benifits do you see?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
I'm still thinking about it. Not a complete idea.

McDohl (Mar 6):
It's not a bad idea at certain intervals of time, but there's two problems with that.
One, the oracle might come out and say something. If we DO do something like that, it has to be post-oracle.
Two, there's no benefit for the time being. You hit one of your own to mute suspicion.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
You are 100% correct. Even if it is a good idea, it is only so post-oracle. Dwolfe has magically managed to stay off radar.

Torgo (Mar 6):
I can really only advocate a self-hit in the event of setting up a phony inspector.

McDohl (Mar 6):
Not to mention it moves the goalpost for our victory.

Philip Armstrong (Mar 6):
Yeah, we're in a good spot right now. Citizans are clueless. They're doing our job for us.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Truth. I feel a little bad for stirring the waters as much as I did. Letting Nich's plan go through would have been RUINOUS.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Better still, they don't have the viggy doing anything at the moment. Granted, we get no free kills, but we don't get an errent shotgun shell in our heads either.

Philip Armstrong (Mar 6):
I think telling the vig to stop for now was brilliant. Way to limit your own powers, Civies.

McDohl (Mar 6):
The angels really need to protect THEMSELVES from the getgo. Nich shouting for help means that probably BOTH angels are trying to protect him, leaving EVERYONE ELSE vulnerable.

Torgo (Mar 6):
I wouldn't count on that though.

Philip Armstrong (Mar 6):
Amen. We shouldn't go after Nich. He tried to call us out and get us to hit him but we're better off trying out luck and letting the mob get him tomorrow.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Going after nich is a mistake. He isn't as dangerous as he thinks he is.

McDohl (Mar 6):
I wouldn't count on it either. Let Nich continue to go batshit.

Torgo (Mar 6):
He'll still push his agenda, but I think he's going to be a bit more quiet tomorrow.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
He'll try to. So far, it's been resisted in the long-term, and with every citizen he fingers it'll only get worse. And best of all, he's the only leader-organizer they have.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Which is fine, considering it completely works in our benefit for the time being.

Philip Armstrong (Mar 6):
We should try to keep the most suspicious people alive. Epithath, Shinji, Torgo, Byron (jk), etc. Let the mob go after them while we take out the middleground.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
I feel comfortable maintaining a certain level of suspicion. If necessary, you all can lead the charge against me.

McDohl (Mar 6):
Alpha Werewolf is a problem though. He's what we thought dtsund might be.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
I think he's an angel.

Philip Armstrong (Mar 6):
What makes you think so?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
a) Calling for a mafia hit. b) trying to set down rules for pre-lynching exposure of power players. And I think if he were the investigator, he'd be even more aggressive than he is

McDohl (Mar 6):
I can see why you'd think that. Get the mafia to waste a hit on himself by being annoying... if he IS protecting himself.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Yeah, Alpha bothers me. Of course, I'm on his target list to. Something I fully intend to use if he fingers me if I continue to hug onto nich's ideas.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Lots of people DON'T like Alpha. You aren't the only one who has shown a distaste for his methods.

Philip Armstrong (Mar 6):
I'm reluctant to take out AW because I made my distain for him so clear.

McDohl (Mar 6):
His playstyle is to get inside everyone's heads. It seems to be working, I wish I could have warned everybody. "scum" and stuff are why the hell is googlewave going crazy on me...

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Fortunately, some non-mafia have pointed it out. It's a sophomoric strategy he's using.

Torgo (Mar 6):
The "scum" thing has been confusing or irritating the shit out of everyone though. We can use that.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
What do you think he meant by "He was calling out to the mafia?"

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Suggesting that he WANTED us toi try and whack him?

Philip Armstrong (Mar 6):
That could very well be. I'm against hitting him. Tonight at least. If he is an angel I don't think he'd waste protection on Nich.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Yeah, no, despite Alpha being number one on my "want to kill" list, I'm totally not down for that.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
I agree, I don't think we should target him. It's just interesting to look at that when we're evaluating angel targets. I don't think he'll EVER protect anyone else.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Until the investigator or vig outs themselves.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
They want to abandon the vig, so far. My assumptions tonight are: The inspector is most likely unguarded. As is the oracle. We should hit one of them, and hit them now, if we can.

McDohl (Mar 6):
Well, we should take some time to think about it, and who we decide on. Right now, we bask in the glory of how events unfolded.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Yes. This is a time to drink and celebrate a town that is intent on killing themselves. And McDohl, if necessary.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Google Wave needs a TOAST button.

Philip Armstrong (Mar 6):
I don't want to see any of use offed un-nesseccairly. Any way to save Byron or Mccy D?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
I keed, I keed.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Another reason to keep Alpha alive: Just before the lynch he pointed out Spec's complete and utter slience and said if anything, he's going

Philip Armstrong (Mar 6):
Oh my yes totally.

McDohl (Mar 6):
He's going to bully people into talking as well. Don't fall for that shit. Post at your own pace.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Really the only one of us under REAL individual scrutiny is me, and that's just V-E. I'm pretty sure that just being reasonable will shake him.

McDohl (Mar 6):
Gameplay question: We win when there's five citizens left? I'm assuming that doesn't include powerplayers?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
A number of citizens equal or fewer to the number of us. Even if they are all angels.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Phantoon got real vocal all of a sudden. This is new, combined with earlier posts about investigating the other mafia thread.

Philip Armstrong (Mar 6):
Alright, chapos. It's my bedtime. I'll check back in after work tomorrow.

McDohl (Mar 6):
night dude!

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Night, boss! I'mma be away for a little bit, too, I think.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Shoots. Havea good night, man.

Torgo and Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Breaking news: Google Wave can behave in a perfectly rational

Torgo (Mar 6):
Yeaaah, I suppose this s all going to be for posterity in the post game. I suppose we should keep things all professional like.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
No point. The thread can be played back in real time so that people can see a record of edits and similar. I'm just being bizarre. It is late.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Right.
fashion. Nothing to see here.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Anyway, onto the whacking business. We're not hitting ourselves, and so far we've decided that going after Nich, Alpha, Spec, or epithet is a bad idea for now. That pares down our hit list significantly.

McDohl (Mar 6):
Oh, and DarkBlueFlannel has jumped ship. He's not playing anymore.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
That'll make our accusations of him interesting. We'll see. I'm still interested in phantoon for consideration, too.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Phantoon is a sharp player. A lot more quiet and understated then someone like Brick or Alpha.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
He's really watching, and listening, and focusing on maximizing his rationality-to-post ratio.

McDohl (Mar 6):
One thing we need to address is this amusing issue of "The three of us most likely to be civilians" that's coming up. I don't know wtf crack they're smoking.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Oh you mean Nich's "trifecta"?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Yeah, the bloc that Nich's setting up. The best thing we can do is splinter them, really. Or discredit nich. Either-or.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Nich might very easily do that as is if he holds to his list.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Best scenario is we hit the inspector, and nich gets lynched.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
I don't think he'll hold to the list. I think he'll move from it now that vaterite is a civvie. Vaterite poisoned the waters against him, too.

McDohl (Mar 6):
I'm curious to see how well that "trifecta" holds up to Nich leading the way to kill a citizen, of if we should try and nip that in the bud (killing SpoonyGundam)

Torgo (Mar 6):
Killing Spoony right now won't accomplish much though, assuming he's a regular civvie.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Spoony is not a hard target. He can be left. He doesn't really get along with AW anyway.

Torgo (Mar 6):
He's also fairly exonerated in everyone's eyes, especially the current power players. If we ax him it will solidify their position.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Absolutely. Better to hit someone dangerous and contentious.

McDohl (Mar 6):
Then I also suggest that we don't hit anybody on Nich's list, since I'm the only mafia on it. If Nich is determined to see it through, I'll get hit in the next round, but the final two after that are citizens, so we don't need to kill them if someone's going to do the work for us.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Well, if nichs list gets another innocent lynched, his list is going to get thrown in a trash and his body dangling from a gallows.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
The people on nich's list will engender suspicion. This will keep you and I alive longer. He did say that you weren't his next target.

McDohl (Mar 6):
I'm not kidding guys. You should have heard the elaborate scheme going on in my head to get Nich lynched tomorrow if vaderite was the vigilante and Nich was the investigator. :D

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Play it cool. AW likes jumping on reactionary players. That's his strategy. If nich and AW go after you, chances are there isn't much we can do. Many of the players here are clearly following along.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Okay, so Spoony is out. Shinji is out as well? we should consider that he might be a power role playing it quiet.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
We have several quiet picks who are suspicious, who are just as likely as Shinji to be empowered.

McDohl (Mar 6):
Right now, our don't kills include Spoony, Nich, AW, VorpalEdge, and Epithet..

Torgo (Mar 6):
That leaves Rai, Vorpal, Aeonus, Phantoon, shinji, and whoever repleases flannel. We also agreed on not to his Spec until we see what Alpha does, yes or no?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Yes. No point in hitting targets of suspicion, really.

McDohl (Mar 6):
It's possible Nich is still the investigator, though. Did everyone understand what I was saying when I said was "second" on Nich's list?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
I think it is possible, but not probable. Second?

Torgo (Mar 6):
Why should anyone believe him tomrrow after getting a citizen killed? He's going to have to do more then out himself to get another lynch off his list so easily.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
He will suggest that an inspector's silence means that he is innocent. He needs to actually agree with SG or AW tomorrow, I think, to get another name off his list.

Torgo (Mar 6):
Dubious in the extreme.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
I agree entirely.

McDohl (Mar 6):
I would argue what a REALLY bad idea it is to determine silence as compliance, but I'm staying relatively quiet for Day 3, if someone else wants to pick up on that.

Torgo (Mar 6):
If no one else does I might bring that up. I've been one of Nich's most vocal supporters, and being up front about any pitfalls and suspecious parts of his plan might look good.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
I mentioned it yesterday, didn't I? I may have. If I haven't, Torgo takes that banner tomorrow.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 6):
Or even if I have, really. Anyway, I'm out for reals this time. Be well, gentlemen.

McDohl (Mar 6):
Later guys! Wave it up tomorrow if something occurs to you.

Torgo (Mar 6):
I've got to run too and get some housework done. Laters.

Philip Armstrong (Mar 7):
I like the idea of getting Phantoon. Also, let's not forget Aeonus, he(she?)'s another savvy player that has managed to stay out of the major conflicts. I tried to throw some suspicion on him (her?!?!?) yesterday but it went largely ignored.
Also, I forgot to to say this last night but good job everyone on not being an idiot with your lists. We all avoided looking like Mafia with obvious choices and we all listed at least one real mafia member. This will go a long way towards preserving our identities.

Davidwolfe@googlewave.com (Mar 7):
I actually did up an Excel spreadsheet of his list, more than phe seemed to have done. Pasting the link to google docs is failing, as wave still gives me the 50% cpu and one letter a second bug. I will PM you the link for now. Someone else can post it plz.
I designed my list to pick ALL of those not already voted for, with one key exception. Vaterite. I left him off my list and added DBF. I can defend it if ever called out by saying I was looking for people lying too low under the radar.
Nich never explained his picks, but I can explain mine. I was the only person to vote for you McDohl, other than nich, so don't worry so much.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 7):
Archivist's note: this file is attached at the bottom of the thread.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 7):
This is dwolfe's Suspicion Spreadsheet -- it's an interesting, and educational, read. Everyone should look at it since our adversaries, probably Aeonus, will have a similar one up tomorrow.

McDohl (Mar 7):
I don't understand it. Someone explain for the stupid like me?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 7):
It lists in the vertical who each of us accused, and, in the horizontal, by whom each of us was accused. Then, at the end, it shows you how many accusations. I have 6. Leading the pack. :(

McDohl (Mar 7):
Hmm. Okay.

Davidwolfe@googlewave.com (Mar 7):
I don't know if it's of any use to citizenry nor mafia, but i do know it's data out there, and guided my own accusations. Apologies if it wasn't clear, Byron seems to have gotten it in one, and google wave is still nigh unusable for me. I was hoping to see what trend Nich was looking for, but it seems to be just a matter of how people argued their picks guiding his list. Given how senseless that is to do, i'm fully supporting him as leader for the time being.
As we know of no power roles, I say we randomly kill someone again that didn't ask for protection (not Nich, who is working for us anyway so far). Not someone that 'called out' mafia, as that could likely be an angel hoping for a wiff by team evil.

McDohl (Mar 7):
Okay, so our don't kill list is: Nich, Alpha Werewolf, SpoonyGundam, Epithet, SpecBebop, and VorpalEdge I believe, which leaves us with: Aeonus, DemoWeasel, Phantoon, and Rai.

Davidwolfe@googlewave.com (Mar 7):
There is no place for feeling bad about killing people in mafia (Shinji). It kinda pisses me off that he changes his name/handle mid-game.
I vote for Phantoon

McDohl (Mar 7):
Following up, Phantoon cast the pivotal ninth vote to lynch vaderite first, before Byron retracted himself, which was then followed up by SpecBebop. I'm unsure if that'll affect anyone's idea on who we should take out, but it's worth noting.

Philip Armstrong (Mar 7):
I'm cool with any of those except Shinji. It honestly sounds like he hasn't had much time to play the game. He's a bro and I don't want to off him just because he's an easy target (yet).

Philip Armstrong (Mar 7):
Also, Wave might be dragging because this one's gotten too long? Propose we start a new one for each night.

McDohl (Mar 7):
Maybe? I'm unsure of how wave works. If that's the problem, then we most certainly should.

Merus (Mar 7):
Will do for the following nights. It won't be any more trouble to compile them up - I've been doing some research into how to make waves accessible as a web page, and there appears to be a couple of different tools to do so.

Philip Armstrong (Mar 7):
A wrech and screwdriver?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 7):
I believe that Shinji is not just an okay person who deserves to play the game, but also a player who is strategically important to leave alive.

Torgo (Mar 7):
Phantoon cast the final vote to lynch? Hm, that could potentially be useful, but given that he's already proven himself such a shrewed player and good with numbers, should we take the risk of leaving him alive?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 7):
At some point, our chappies will realize that vote order is a really poor indicator of mafiahood.

Torgo (Mar 7):
True enough. Because aside from that, I think giving Phantoon the boot is a solid idea.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 7):
He's real sharp. Sharp is a threat. If we can't peg our power roles, it's best to eliminate real threats, I think

Torgo (Mar 7):

Torgo (Mar 7):
Well, we're running under the assumption that Alpha is an angel and wants us to hit him to prove his innocence, which won't work since we know better. We're staying off of Nich because he's demanding protection and he's helping us more then hindering us. As far as potential threats go, to my mind that leaves Phantoon and Aeonus.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 7):
The WORST thing we can do is hit someone protected. That's how blocs get built. AW is annoying, but not... really a threat.

Torgo (Mar 7):
I say we give Phantoon the chop.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 7):
I'm with you. I vote to hit Phantoon. And before we run out of time, any advice on how not to get lynched is appreciated. I'll be toning down for tomorrow.

Torgo (Mar 7):
I wish I could say. I've never played this before and I'm kind of playing things by ear. Of course, hushing up can easily be interpreted as a sign of mafia-ness. Of course, just about anything can if you look at it a certain way. Just be careful: Alpha likes to harp on the quiet ones. He relies on antagonizing people into making a mistake.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 7):
Honestly at this point I'm just trying to be as reasonable as possible. I like to think that even if I'm suspicious, there's less actual grounds to lynch. But I'm new, too, so who knows?

Torgo (Mar 7):
Until the inspector steps forward, all people can do is guesswork. They can bark all they want, but they've got to sway a crowd of people too. Without anyone 100% trustworth, that's difficult t odo.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 7):
Little consolation to vaterite. Fortunately, even if we lose another member, I don't think we can be conveniently tied together. I'm most worried that the vigilante will get bored.

Torgo (Mar 7):
At this point the odds are against him still. He could hit one of us, but honestly I wouldn't mind if he decided to take a swing. Not that I don't mind him staying put either, since it makes us very safe.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 7):
One less thing we have to worry about.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 7):
But it also means that we have to convince one person who doesn't need votes, if they're active. Not much we can do to prevent deaths, unlike when we just let nich kill people for us.

Torgo (Mar 7):
Not much we can do about it in any case, unless we luck into kiilling him.

Torgo (Mar 7):
Regardless, I must be off this evening. I am exhausted and not worth much as far as thinking goes right now. If anything comes to mind though, I'll hop back on and post it.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 7):
Be well, sir.

Torgo (Mar 8):

McDohl (Mar 8):
I disagree about using voting history to determine who is/isn't mafia. It's one of the few things that you can look at to help determine who is mafia that isn't completely subjective. Especially when you have just enough votes to tip the scale into a lynching, the best thing you can do is look at the list since you have to assume that mafia knows who is/isn't a citizen, and are going to encourage the result to go that way.
If you're concerned about going to be lynched tomorrow, Byron, just throw suspicion back onto Nich. He will undoubtedly try to lead the charge again, but he's responsible for throwing one citizen under the bus already, so that can be used to discredit him.
Anyway, I vote for Phantoon, though I'd like to use our remaining time in the speakeasy before the next day starts.

Philip Armstrong (Mar 8):
Phantoon works for me too.

Merus (Mar 8):
Okay, that's a unanimous vote for Phantoon.
Phantoon's fond of night-time diving, it turns out, and you manage to trap him inside a wrecked ship. Sadly, this does mean that he's a regular Citizen.
You have some time left before sunrise; I'm waiting on a power role.

Davidwolfe@googlewave.com (Mar 8):
So Phantoon was a citizen. I'm wanting to talk day 3 strategy now while we can.
I am betting teh Investigator will have found at least one mafia by now, the question is whether they reveal the information not, or wait one more day. Let's figure out what to do if they reveal 1-2 Mafia today.

Davidwolfe@googlewave.com (Mar 8):

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 8):
Either the inspector is Nich, or he spent yesterday on Nich. I think we're in the clear for now, but even if I'm right, it's really only a matter of time. We can't count on having him lynched, and we can't count on hitting him to silence him. I'm beginning to wonder about DBF - it's metagamey, but I don't think we'd have replaced him if he weren't a power role. I'm also thinking our power roles otherwise are really vocal in this game.

McDohl (Mar 8):
As a general statement, we're winning now, as we have three citizens dead (holy fuck wave is making my computer throw a hissy fit), we've made up for the loss of Marion from the getgo.
Nonetheless, if Nich is forced to reveal himself as investigator tomorrow, then the person he points to as mafia should really throw it back in his face (I think it's going to be me) by challenging that HE is Mafia and that if he were really the investigator why would he subject an innocent citizen into getting lynched.
If it's anyone else... the charge might not stick as well, but at least try. The moment our investigator reveals itself is when Nich probably won't be protected, unless it IS Nich. THat's the evening when you then take him out.
Also, don't forget to challenge the assertion that "silence means compliance". If Nich decides to point out that the investigator is silent when ordered to look into him, counter by saying that just because the investigator is silent doesn't mean that he looked into him.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 8):
I think that challenging nich on mafiahood is a dangerous choice to make, and I suspect that anyone who tries to out the inspector will look like mafia. His list, if he follows it, will dig his grave for him.

McDohl (Mar 8):
...where the hell did that wave go. I think I clicked delete.
Oh well. I didn't mean for anyone to try and out the investigator, I mean if Nich comes out tomorrow as the investigator to prove so-and-so is mafia, then it's to be thrown back in his face, since suspicion can be lobbed against him. I don't think he'll do it. I think he's investigating people to out them and to buy time.But if he leads the charge against another citizen, it'll be his death.
In fact, you could say that if he leads the charge against another citizen, that the vigilante could take out Nich as a kind of "deal". Would be very amusing.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 8):
Ah, I see. I think I misread, then. :) I'm highly suspicious, I will probably be playing tomorrow very low key. Dwolfe and torgo and loki are better for leading issues, at the moment. :)

McDohl (Mar 8):
Indeed. If you're reading this, guys, it's time for you to step up to the plate on this. :P

Philip Armstrong (Mar 8):
I'm a pitch hitter! Consider the base stepped. I can always use the excuse they wanted me to post more anyways. One thing though, I'm busy Friday through Sunday. Like really busy. Like, my friend is flying out from California and we're going to play through all the Mega Mans up to 10 in three days busy. I'll try to be active but I don't know if I'll have the time.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 8):
Seriously say that in a post and nobody at talking time will EVER accuse you of anything else ever again. Best defense. Also nice alt comic bosses, by the way!

Philip Armstrong (Mar 8):
Thanks! I know that coming up with Robot Masters is a cliche at this point but I felt my idea was unique enough to risk it. The comic didn't break the site so I guess I was wrong.

Merus (Mar 8):
Okay, I'm closing off this wave; I'll start up a new one come night 3.

Destil
04-09-2010, 12:14 AM
Merus (Mar 8):
Mafia West Speakeasy - Night 3
Alright, I've got this prepared for Night 3.

dwolfe (Mar 18):
i vote to kill Epithet

dwolfe (Mar 11):
Testing, somehow today Wave isn't destroying my computer, hooray! Testing 1 2 3. See you at night.

loki (Mar 18):
Fuck that was a long day. I'm out tonight so I wanted to get somethings down while I can: Sorry I moved us to night. I hope it didn't fuck us. But I wanted us able to talk and plan about what to do with Nich. I want him dead. I don't think we're going to be able to get the town to do it for us and if he didn't have angel protection before he sure as hell does now. We could go after Epitheth or Aenous but because he named them as block it would only strengthen his position. If we do want to cast some doubt on him we should hit someone he hasn't vouched for. But then that leaves us in the position of having him still alive. He's not that smart but he's wielding a lot of power.
If somehow we hit the Vig tonight than McDohl you could totally pose as him. That would be awesome. You'd have to come up with a reason why you killed Spoony, though.

McDohl (Mar 18):
The oracle is still alive, so that would hamper that plan. I thought of that as well.

loki (Mar 18):
Oh right. At least Nich thinks you're the Vig for right now. And since everyone trusts him I think they'll go along with what he says. At least for the start of the day. If the real vig speaks up then it would be bad.

McDohl (Mar 18):
Not really. I didn't post anything on that last day on purpose. But Nich didn't call my bluff to investigate me, so for the time being, I dodged one bullet. The real vigilante might come after me tonight though.

loki (Mar 18):
Nich might be lying too and is planning on investigating you.
Anyway, those are my basic thoughts. I'm off to a play. About cars.
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Cars: The Musical.

McDohl (Mar 18):
Yeah, but if Nich comes after me, I plan on sticking to my defense in that he's a mafioso.
Have fun. I'm off to the gym myself.

McDohl (Mar 18):
Yes, wtf at that day taking forever. We have a time limit, so should the citizens.

Torgo (Mar 18):
fuuuuuuck. All that and for what. I hope my laying a little bit low helped out. I didn't really finger anyone and I very purposefully went against Nich's plan of not accusing McDohl. My plan is that if I get accused of shady business, I'll tell them that while Nich is probably protected, the mafia's next targets would be people who generally side with him. Votes are power and all, and the inspector can be as inspectorlike as he wants, he still has to get people to follow him. Or something like that. You get the idea.

Torgo (Mar 18):
Also, the "posing as the Vigilante" schtick was something I was saving myself, but then Nich had to go make that big old post about that very sort of thing, so a lot of my planning was completely shot to hell. Considering the high we were on opening the day, I feel kind of shitty about our prospects at the moment.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
To be fair, we had some bad luck going on -- no role hits or anything so far. I'm actually pretty confident in my role suspicions, though. And I'm pretty damn certain that either Spoony is the Vig, or VorpalEdge is. And I'm completely certain that RedHedgehog is an Angel.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
Er, duh. Not spoony, SpecBebop.

dwolfe (Mar 20):

Torgo (Mar 18):
Epithet said that everyone killed so far was a civilian.

Torgo (Mar 18):
Wouldn't he have said something though? He was pretty close to getting lynched as it was.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
If it's Spec, he's a dead man walking. If Nich investigates him, he'll come out guilty, and get strung up. He absolutely cannot defend himself. And he didn't post at ALL after Nich pointed at McDohl for vigilante.

Torgo (Mar 18):
What makes you think Red Hedgehog is an angel?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
Because he's not the Vig. He'd have protested McDohl. And the last night took so long because Merus was waiting on a power role. This is also the night RedHedge took over DarkBlueFlannel's role. My metagamey guess is that RH was reading hard over the thread, deciding who to protect.

Torgo (Mar 18):
See, I didn't know that. I don't hit up the metagaming all that much. Good to know though. That means we've got three roles more or less locked, leaving an angel and the vig.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
I could be wrong. My other suspicions are Aeonus or VE for Angel. VE is really calculating w/r/t his suspicions. He needs eveidence, because maybe he doesn't need a consensus to kill? I dunno. My own suspicion. It's just nice to be out of day phase.

Torgo (Mar 18):
Are we still running under the assumption that Alpha is an angel? His request against protection back on day two seemed to suggest it.

dwolfe (Mar 18):
Yup, I'd buy AW being an angel, which is why I asked he take over from Nich in the future in part. We probably can't kill him anyway.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
Oh, right. I'd forgotten that. I don't know. Also note VE's response to the Mcdohl operation -- "All right, I'll play along"

Torgo (Mar 18):
At this point I'm not even sure who to strike at. There's enough exposed players to keep the angels occupied, especially with a bloc forming, but aside from the likelihood of Nich, it's hard to say who will be protecting who. They might BOTH be protecting him, since communication is impossible without exposure.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
That's why I sort of pointed out the importance of keeping spec alive. Hopefully with all of that, the angel roulette will be confused enough that we have a chance at a harder target.

Torgo (Mar 18):
Really the only truly "hard" target at the moment is Nich. Would we even dare? I would place higher odds on both angels protecting him then neither.

dwolfe (Mar 18):
Nich is an idiot, pardon my language, for thinking we'd try to kill him at night when he's claiming to be the inspector without anyone challenging him. If I were the angel, I'd protect him for sure, and so would all of us. He's just taunting us at this point, a jerk move or just a naive one, not sure which.

dwolfe (Mar 18):
My thoughts I typed in a txt document during the game. I agree with Torgo, if I'm an angel I protect Nich if I'm not a total moron. We need to decide a kill target, but let's wait till morning. After a god damn long day, we need more than 24 hours in return. In future games, days must be limited to X days, as over a week will kill participation. i've never seen so many people just QUIT a game before, and it's due to the infinite time limits in part. Thoughts:
...I can't paste in Wave? WTF. I HATE THIS GOD DAMN THING. I had several thousand characters to paste. wtf. F google.
tl;dr version: 1.) Nich isn't very competent, but being around 18/24 hours of every single day makes him a huge threat. Given 10 days, he finally thought up what my original plans were for yesterday. Giving citizens infinite time to bullshit is, also, bullshit and needs to change in future games.
2.) I set myself up rather better than anyone else as the vig with my 'why i would have done that as a vig' post. took Nich over a week to figure out that could be a good cover for mafia. Bullshit we gave citizens to much time, again. Merus, these rules are fubared against mafia with so long to talk during the day. Need an upper limit of days before night just HAPPENS.
3.) I can't believe you guys let the no-lynch go through. Again, too much time for citizens I was THIS close to killing Epithet, and the odds of Epithet being inspected were under 15% at this point, plus under 15% he was the oracle. My Zanatos gambit got royally FUBARED there, it was f*cking brilliant, and almost worked anyway. My post for Epithet's lynching also supported my vigilante argument, if you look at it, as Ep and SG had most votes vs them from everyone.
3a.) I went out on a limb to defend McDohl, but by the same token, I defended that decision given my analysis of the votes of potential mafia. I still highly suspect I'll be inspected tonight, guys. If so, I'll play the vigilante card, as I have nothing else to defend myself with when I'm found guilty. McDohl, with all due respect, I don't see how anyone would think you'd be the vig given your posting history.
4.) we can't afford a whiff tonight given the fucktards that let a no-lynch go through (I went along just because I KNEW it didn't matter at that point). We shouldn't go after someone unknown, that narrows down suspects to US. I'd love to take out Epithet. If he's the oracle, and we nuke him, one of us can play the vigilante gambit. At worst, we can get a citizen or real vigilante to oppose one of us, which slows down the citizen kill rate in late-game.
How likely do you guys think a kill of Epithet will go through? I vote to kill Epithet.
merus: the rules for daytime suck right now, way too long, so people don't bother to show up to vote regularly.

Merus (Mar 18):
Consider the flipside: if people can just wait for the time limit to expire, then hey, they don't have to lynch at all! And therefore anyone who tries to make stuff happen is clearly mafia.
I haven't seen very many mafia games where there was a hard limit on how long day lasted, and I suspect this is for a reason. The game is, in part, about having to make decisions without reliable information. Letting them put it off doesn't help the mafia as much as you think it does.
You knew, going in, that the citizenry had as much time as they needed, and you had all the time in the world to try and force them into making mistakes. It is not a problem with the rules that you didn't take that option.

dwolfe (Mar 18):
Time limits are 1 part forcing participation, and 1 part keeping people active. Again, i've never seen so many people go inactive.

dwolfe (Mar 18):
Bluntly, I've never seen a mafia game where someone bailed until gamespite. This speaks either of the rules or the insensitive jerks in the forums. I vote the latter, as they don't have the experience to bother to make sure they can participate. But 10 day long day turns are absurd.

Merus (Mar 19):
You shoulda just said that! That is a point I can get behind, and I'll likely bring it up at the end of the game.

McDohl (Mar 18):
I just want to point out that I hadn't intended on posing as the vigilante, and I don't really think I have. Nich is just assuming that I am.
My goal was simple: Get Nich to call my bluff, which he seems to refused to do, or he says he's refusing to do. I expect come next day that Nich did investigate me and I'm boned (and thus stick to my Nich-is-posing plan), but we'll see what develops there. I intentionally didn't post that final day when the call was to no-lynch because it does hurt us, it drags this fucking long-ass-game on, and let Nich assume going into night that maybe I am the vigilante and that it's not worth investigating me.
As for the rest, I need some time to think. I expected to be dead this evening, so I haven't worked out strategy or anything.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
There's no way Nich is investigating you. If he suspects you're mafia, or vig, he'll get the same verdict either way.
I do think you'll be dead tomorrow. I cannot imagine that the vigilante will NOT try to off you tonight, and even if he doesn't, I'm sure he'll out himself tomorrow. What do we do, gentlemen, when this happens?

McDohl (Mar 18):
Well, Nich has reasoned, once again to his folly, that I'm innocent, since I told him to call my bluff, or that if I am guilty, that I'd be the vigilante.
I genuinely don't know where he gets this stuff. It just annoyed me that his pocket cards are 7-2 off suit, I have pocket aces, and he flopped 7-7-2. And now he's going to fold. Like, wtf?

McDohl (Mar 18):
And that's what's killing me about this game. These people are trying to find suspicion, when everything is suspicious (I pointed this out in my defense post). Anything can be justified. You have to either shoot randomly and hope for the best, or try to find inconsistency and point it out.
Holy shit if I were a citizen that would piss me the fuck off. But we really needed ten days to not come to any conclusion about anything?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
Right, but it's not nich's investigation that I'm worried about. He'll investigate someone else, and either build the bloc, or call for a lynch. I suspect the vig will drop you like a rock either today or tomorrow.

McDohl (Mar 18):
Honestly, that's not the worst thing that could happen. If anything, it further moves Nich into doubt. Not that I think the citizens could lynch him at this point, but it makes him much less effective as a leader.
Our best bet, right now, is to either hit the real vigilante, or Epithet; I think.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
If we hit the real vigilante, epithet will spill, and you'll die.

McDohl (Mar 18):
Perhaps, but that's seemingly inevitable anyway. I'll just argue that I never said I was the vigilante; just that Nich inferred it, and that my challenge still stands - if I'm so suspicious, investigate me.
This is assuming I'm alive by the next day.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
I think that either way, we'll have to have a plan for when you either a) die or b) get outed, so that we don't all get taken down.

McDohl (Mar 18):
Vote for me if it'll help remove suspicion on you. It's the best strategic defensive move.

McDohl (Mar 18):
I really need to think about a strategy. I didn't expect to be alive tonight. I need to outline who I think the power roles are.

McDohl (Mar 18):
My preliminary thinking is that even if we whiff tonight, we're no worse than where we were yesterday (even if it fucking took ten days jesus titty christ)

McDohl (Mar 18):
Nich's voting bloc so far seems to be him, Alpha, Aeonus, and Eipthet, I believe.
McDohl, Torgo, Loki, Byron, and dwolfe are mafia.
That leaves... SpecBebop, Vorpal Edge, Red Hedgehog, Shinjifox, Rai.
I think that's everybody. Yes?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
Gentlemen, I think we are potentially screwed. :(

McDohl (Mar 18):
Well, odds are Nich is going to hit a mafia in an investigation next go around, I don't think it can be helped.
I'm with dwolfe on this one. The citizens had way too much time, and the game REALLY drags on when they're given infinite time. Nich's sleuthing ability rivals that of Kenneth the Page.

dwolfe (Mar 18):
You give Nich entirely too much credit. An infinite number of monkeys and typewriters...seriously.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
I just mean that if the powers out themselves, then the bloc is too big for us to have a chance.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
We're done, if they do.

McDohl (Mar 18):
Then we aim at someone in the bloc. I also don't understand how Alpha is innocent, but this is Nichlogic.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
That's been a standpoint of Nich's early on, and we can maybe use that against him.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
That said, until McDohl bites it either way, he's a member of the bloc. I don't think it'll last long, but we have a chance to influence the game.

McDohl (Mar 18):
I don't think I'm part of the bloc. I think Alpha is.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
If Nich thinks you're Vigilante, you're in the bloc.

McDohl (Mar 18):
If he's an investigator worth his salt, he'll investigate me and get his guilty verdict.

McDohl (Mar 18):
Actually, we might be able to deduce who is the vigilante, now that I think about it. We have to look at people who did and didn't post since Nich threw down his suspicion. Anyone who we already don't know is a power role + those who posted = probably not vigilante.
Aeonus, Rai, Vorpal, Alpha. Add in Nich and Epithet.
This leaves... RedHedgehog, SpecBebop.
The only problem is the Oracle would still be around.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
The vigilante looks guilty under inspection. He KNOWS he'll get a guilty verdict. And yeah, the Oracle is sort of a problem.

dwolfe (Mar 18):
So let's kill the oracle, unless you think one of the two angels are smart enough to protect him. Given the angels are certainly bored and not paying attention after 10 f*ckign days of day 3....

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
I'm absolutely certain that one of them is paying VERY close attention, and that's RedHedgehog.

McDohl (Mar 18):
Well, a guilty verdict, plus someone coming out as the real vigilante means there's a conflict, which can only be rectified by lynching someone.

Torgo (Mar 18):
That's been my thinking about a vigilante ruse this whole time: If we strike the vig, we have to take out epithet, otherwise the whole thing is a waste of time (and life.)

Torgo (Mar 18):
So, probably sometime next month then when we're on day 5.

Torgo (Mar 18):
I'm against hitting epithet just yet though, since doing so would totally put Nich and his bloc in the clear. At this point everyone is just assuming that Nich is truthful.

dwolfe (Mar 18):
S

Torgo (Mar 18):
I don't want to hit Alpha, since my guess is that if he's an angel and he's still not 100% on Nich, he will protect himself.

McDohl (Mar 18):
Is Alpha still not with Nich? I'm pretty sure he thinks Nich is the inspector.

Torgo (Mar 18):
Well, he said something awhile back about "coming up with a plan" that would either put Nich in the full clear or not, then a little while after was like, "oh, it wouldn't work, never mind." He never detailed it, but while he's stated he's very positive on Nich, he still has some measure of doubt.

McDohl (Mar 18):
IF Alpha is an angel.
There's an implication there that Nich is vulnerable. Do you really think we should go for the head shot?

McDohl (Mar 18):
Any angel worth their salt at this point is protecting Nich, even if they don't trust him. There's absolutely zero benefit for them if they don't. I would honestly be surprised if he wasn't, even if Alpha is an angel and is protecting himself over Nich. The second angel probably is protecting Nich, whomever that might be.

McDohl (Mar 18):
I'm going to go play some SaGa II, but I'm going to leave Wave open for the time being.

Torgo (Mar 18):
We need to hit, and hit hard. If we play it safe again it's going to turn against us. Succeed or fail, we need to strike at a power player, and I say it's Alpha.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
I personally think that alpha has been protecting himself all game.

dwolfe (Mar 18):
Question:
Where the HELL did Nich get his 'shell game' schtick from? Not from Mafia West...First mention of 'shell game' is today (just searched the thread). It's a mafia east/brickroad meme, given how pompus brick was last game. F*cker has so much time on his hands he can't keep to his thread, I think. Not reading the other thread was gentleman's rules, that's all, i know.
Again, if i were an angel I would protect myself or the Inspector. The shell game, afaik, from prior games, means the angels flip a coin to protect X number of people to keep mafia from getting kills.
Given that we've never talked about shell games so far...wtf Nich...your angels shouldn't know what you meant by that.

McDohl (Mar 19):
Brick's been my friend for ten years now. We're talking to each other about our games (since we're in different games), and I have it on good authority that Nich is also talking to Brick about this. It doesn't necessarily mean that Nich is reading the other thread, but I will be phenominally disappointed if Nich is going to Brick for advice.
Not that I would ever think Brick would give advice to Nich while I'm in the west game, but he might not see it the way I do. To be honest, I'm not sure if Brick even suspects me as mafia when I talk to him about the game.

Merus (Mar 19):
I believe the 'shell game' terminology is mine, actually. I used it on day 1, mafia 1.

Torgo (Mar 18):
Shell game?

Torgo (Mar 18):
Ah. Well, reading the other thread isn't exactly forbidden, at least not right now.

dwolfe (Mar 18):
Again, I think killing the oracle makes sense, as the inspector should be protected by any sane angel. Not that I expect good gameplay by anyone in the citizens this game.

dwolfe (Mar 18):
I cant' rule out that Nich is just pretending to be inspector still. A clever inspector would keep quiet until lynching happens. Nich's call on McDohl made me thing Nich is just pretending to be inspector, rather than thinking McDohl is vig.
We NEED to get the kill vote in and still have time to talk as a group, esp after 10 f*cking days for citizens.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
I can't understand why he'd pretend. If his ruse is to do silly things... it's definitely effective.

Torgo (Mar 18):
I can't help but feel the realinspector would've stepped forward by now.

McDohl (Mar 18):
I would be absolutely shocked if Nich was NOT the inspector at this point and the real one didn't come forward to axe him. It is probably one of the dumbest things a citizen can do - pretend to be inspector.
It sets them up to be a liar.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 18):
I mean, I guess it could make you a smokescreen for the REAL inspector. But that sort of thing is hard to coordinate -- since citizens cannot talk amongst themselves. But I think that for now, acting as though Nich is inspector is best, even if he's lying. And again: We have to hit someone in the bloc, and better yet if it is a power role. Epithet is fairly safe, but protectable. An intelligent angel... I dunno. I think the three best protection targets are Nich, Epithet, and SpecB.

McDohl (Mar 19):
So now that I've slept on it, I'm leaning towards agreeing with dwolfe.
Any angel worth their salt is going to protect Nich. In as much as we can't risk targetting Nich, the angels can't take the risk that we won't call their bluff on it. Unless we're going to decide we go after Nich (which I think I would want us all to agree to on that), then going after Epithet is a good idea. I can't imagine anyone else is following Nichlogic on this other than Nich. Epithet is also in the bloc, which would take a vote out of their sails.
Also: I'm going to urge that nobody in the mafia take it personally if one of us gets targeted and the winds make it so they're going to be lynched. If you're a mafioso, get your vote in. It'll help alleviate the dumbass "suspicion" motive that is bandied about, and gives actual precedent as to how you can't be mafia. I have a feeling if the vigilante doesn't off me tomorrow, then Nich will have investigated me (even though he says he won't), so if you have to vote for me, do so.
Let's see, what else... Oh right. We have our own voting bloc too, don't forget. The closer it gets to equal, the more we should be aligned with our interests. If we get close to 11-12 players, then it stands to reason if we can even sway one or two minds, we can simply outvote the rest.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
This is all true, and super-crucial. If we have to throw a mafioso under the bus, well, we did it with Marion, and we may have to again.
I was considering our bloc the other day -- And yes, if we vote as a whole, there's nothing our opposition (sans vigilante) can do, if we can sway one or two other chumps in the process.
I would rather hit someone important than no-one at all. And we cannot afford, at this point in the game, to whiff EVER. Hitting Epithet is a solid move, but I'm afraid of protection. I'll also mention that Aeonus has been doing a lot of number-crunching, and is a bloc member. Ain't nobody protecting him.
Whether or not we like the rules, we've got them. It is our responsibility to our team to move the damn days along, and to encourage unwise decisions. For about 18 seconds, we may have an advantage tomorrow -- if McD lives through the night, he is on Nich's bloc. It's anybody's guess how long this will last, but that gives us some added oomph towards hitting another soft target. That only works if we can push the day through super-quickly, though.

loki (Mar 19):
I'd realy like to get the vig but that's a crap shoot. I'm down with hitting Epithet but I think I'd rather get Aeoneus. He's a quick whip, on the bloc, vocal, and who know's maybe another power role.

McDohl (Mar 19):
I have a very devious plan forming in my head right now if we are able to hit Epithet.
I'll get into it a bit later, as I'm head off to do some errands. But it consists of dwolfe claiming to be the investigator, and using me as bait.

McDohl (Mar 19):
So I had this plan. It's kind of devious. I'm also starting to doubt if it will work, since it could go haywire at any time. It's also reliant on three things:
1- Epithet is hit.
2- Nich whiffs.
3- I'm alive the next day.
Basically, Nich's ineffectiveness as an investigator would be used against him to doubt his truthfulness. My idea was, if Nich whiffs ("I've added someone else to our voting bloc") that someone from our team comes forward (dwolfe was the first one that popped into my head), but I suppose it could be anyone) and goes "Yeah, okay. Enough of this.I don't know what Nich is doing, but I'm the real investigator. I can prove it. McDohl is a mafioso, I had him investigated last night."
When you get challenged by the audacity of your claims, you say "Look, if I'm lying, you can have the vigilante shoot me, but if I'm telling the truth, then I'll need angel protection." Since I am mafioso, I'll get hanged and it'll look like our fake inspector is telling the truth.
That night we take out Nich.
At that point, it's a stalling game. As our fake investigator "investigates", he keeps coming up empty, but adding people to the voting bloc. The idea is to stall the game long enough so our numbers even out, to a point where we hit victory.
The caveat is, I haven't crunched the numbers or done the math. Once I'm gone, I can't participate anymore, plus the number for the win goes from ten to eight. There's also the issue that if the plan ever goes off the track, then we've just made it harder for us to win.
It's a risky gambit, but I think it could really pay off. Thoughts?

Torgo (Mar 19):
I honestly don't think that will really work. A second inspector claim comes the day after Epithet gets whacked? Nich and Alpha will see right through it.

McDohl (Mar 19):
Well, of course Nich sees right through it. He's the inspector. He can claim whatever he wants. :P
The substance is the proof, which would come with lynching me.
It's not like he's going to go "Oh, shit. I guess I'm not the inspector!" XD

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
The other problem is that if we, the mafia, then immediately hit Nich, our fake inspector loses all credibility and is summarily lynched. The BEST thing we can do is encourage the TOWN to lynch Nich, to get some veracity out of him. My understanding is this: if Nich is lynched and found innocent, his bloc is secure. His bloc is infiltrated at the moment, by McDohl. And of course the only way he can be proven a true townie is by stepping up to the scaffold.

dwolfe (Mar 19):
Plan won't work. My own plan yesterday had <5% chance of going as badly as it did, and yours is way way riskier. Us killing nich confirms he was inspector, and we can't keep him alive. Dont' see it working, because...What if he inspects a REAL mafia tonight? Then you just killed yourself and me for no gain, and we lose almost certainly.

McDohl (Mar 19):
The case is easily made that of course the mafia went after Nich. The point of doing a mafia hit would be to hide his role, which would never reach the light of day once the oracle is gone.
Lynching Nich reveals his role. If he were the inspector (which I still firmly believe he is), then whoever is our front man is lynched almost immediately the next day. Hiding his role is what makes this work.
Of course, the problem is the plan is assuming what people will do. I'm treating the game as if it were chess, when it's really more like... Erratic Derby Car Crash Course. There are so many irrational, unpredictable variables that it's hard to come up with compensation each time for a long-term goal or plan.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
I think that lynching Nich, if we could do it, would have to be a separate operation from the impostor inspector. At this late in the game, it is a very bad idea to hit mafia. I would rather have one of us lynched than waste a kill for which we don't need the consensus of four of our enemies. The no-lynch put us behind a bit, and we are already struggling to recover from the disadvantage Marion gave us.

dwolfe (Mar 19):
I'm still annoyed we let the no-lynch go through. I did all i could to get a kill :(

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
Lynching is the only way they can kill us -- lynching and the vig. A bad lynch helps us, a good lynch slows us down. But if they don't lynch, our agenda is advanced.It's frustrating not to lynch a civvie. But they've wasted an opportunity to hurt us.

McDohl (Mar 19):
Fair enough. It's a risky plan, and we've been cautious thus far.
But at this point in the game, Nich's in it for the long run, unless something comes along that destroys his credibility. Leading the way to lynch a citizen didn't do it, so I have no idea what will.

dwolfe (Mar 19):
Main problem is Nich is active 20/24 hours of the day in the thread, from what I can tell. He's too active and into this, which is very very bad news for us if he's the inspector...or evenjust a citizen.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
We're missing something, though, that we've let slip for too long, and it is that NOBODY TRUSTS NICH. And he's made his second fuckup, and I think it's about to come out. That is to say, greenlighting you into the bloc without an investigation. If the vigilante hits you, and discovers that you're mafia... wee have the greenlight to lynch the bejeezus out of nich. We really do. We'll have the bloc for it, I'm certain. It is our prerogative to remove him from the field, and by doing so we are activist citizens, not mafia plotters, when he almost lets mafia run the game.

McDohl (Mar 19):
Nich will argue he never let me into the bloc, just that he thought I was innocent.
I think his bloc right now is going to be him, Alpha, Aeonus, and Epithet. If anything, he needs to be pressed on Alpha, or information distorted enough that he implies I'm part of the bloc.

loki (Mar 19):
Did he ever say he investigated Alpha or just that he trusted him? I thought so far he only said that he investigated Aeonus and Epithet, which leaves a secret investigation still.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
Just that he trusted him. He's inviting on instinct, not evidence. This makes him dangerous to us (the town).

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
Nope. It's night three. He's only had two investigations so far.

McDohl (Mar 19):
But he does trust Alpha. When he talks about the no-vote, he talks about having "five people on the bloc", and nobody pressed him who this mystery fourth person was (fifth being whoever he investigates tonight).
Moreover, this is also assuming he doesn't hit a mafia tonight. I have no contingency plan if he hits a mafia.
It's Night 3. Tomorrow is Day 4.

loki (Mar 19):
Is it? I could have swarn we were on night four?

loki (Mar 19):
The problem with hitting Epitheth or Aeonus is that it makes it look like that us Mafia also assume that Nich is the investigator and strengthens his position. =\

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
That's true, but if a bloc is forming, it's only natural for the mafia to attack it. That's business as usual. I'm also certain that AW will jump on a chance to lynch Nich, if only because it'll make him next in line to lead.

loki (Mar 19):
But Nich is voching for AE?!? I don't understand Nich's logic at all. He's the most erratic driver on Erratic Derby Car Crash Course.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
AW has constantly opposed nich. Nich still trusts him. I don't know where the strat is from,but it's messy.

McDohl (Mar 19):
I'm glad "Erratic Derby Car Crash Course" is something we can all relate to. :D

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
It is awesome. Awesomer with TWO CARS.

loki (Mar 19):
It's like a monster truck derby but the driver is high and takes Gravedigger up into the stands.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
Towing another, smaller monster truck behind? Bigfoot, maybe?

McDohl (Mar 19):
Ehhh. I don't know about that.
Loki's point is that if we hit someone in the bloc, then there's an implication that Nich's investigations are legit. I guess there's still doubt if Nich is the investigator? I honestly didn't think there was. I was suspecting him of being the investigator since Night 2.

loki (Mar 19):
One thing I'm wondering is about the Vig. Why the hell did he hit Spoony? There was strong logic exhonerating him. I kinda suspect one of the more quiet players of being the Vig. Like Shinji. Someone who wants to play but doesn't have the time to read through each post carefully. If there is still suspicion twoards Nich we might get lucky with another idiotic Vig kill.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
As long as the Angels are awake and aware, the Vig can't kill Nich. Unless AW is an angel, in which case, chances are good that Nich is still unprotected.

loki (Mar 19):
Oh right. Damn. The angels can go to hell.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
We'll help them.

loki (Mar 19):
So what you're saying is that we hit AW tonight?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
I think that if he is an angel, then he has never protected anyone but himself.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
If he is NOT, then he is neither a real bloc member, or a power role, and there's no need to kill him yet.

loki (Mar 19):
So what you're saying is that we hit Nich tonight?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
What I am saying is that we will systematically kill them ALL. Eventually.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
I like epithet and Aeonus as targets tonight, and RedHedge on periphery. I'm concerned that a bright angel will protect Epi, though. Hopefully we've added enough hard targets that we can cherry-pick.

loki (Mar 19):
I'm worried about that too. I can only hope the the angels consider the oracle a much less important role and they both decide to protect Nich.

McDohl (Mar 19):
If we're concerned about the shell game, then you have to try to aim for the biggest fish. It's the only logical deduction. If we're going to hit an angel block, we think, then we make it count as much as possible.

dwolfe (Mar 19):
Please cite where ANYONE at all told the angels to do a shell game? Again, that sounds like a brickroad idea, and i havent read that thread. I searched ours and the only hit of 'shell game' is Nich at day's end.

loki (Mar 19):
How can an angel block ever be useful for the Mafia?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
McDohl is also a hard target tonight.

loki (Mar 19):
More like a hard PENIS.

McDohl (Mar 19):
Yes.
Penis.
I agree.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
At any rate, an amazing target.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
We don't HAVE to play a shell game. Nobody is protecting Rai, or RedHedge.

McDohl (Mar 19):
Exactly. The shell game requires two participants.

loki (Mar 19):
But then we waste a chance to hit a block member.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
Plus, relatively, most of the non-bloc are silent, and it's easy to deflect suspicion onto quiet players. If we're diligent, we can get our town to kill them.

loki (Mar 19):
Yeah totally. It almost happened yesterday until Nich stuck his big schnoz into everything. Here's the thing too. If we off Epithith it puts everyone who voted to kill him yesterday on the high suspecion list.

dwolfe (Mar 19):
Not really. I accused Ep and gave my logic for it. It's 100% bulletproof, logically. If they dont' like the way I look, I'm dead anyway.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
How's this -- if mcDohl is whacked, and found to be mafia, then we immediately have a case against nich, especially if we whack a civvie bloc member. Nich is building a bloc, salting it with mafia, and killing citizens in it. Releasing citizen names early gives justification for the targets, and he looks clean. Killing McDohl by the vigilante or lynch only proves his untrustworthiness, if not outright guilt, since the town will know he let maafia through the gates.

loki (Mar 19):
Fair enough. And if McDohl survives the night?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
Then we have a mafia in Nich's bloc. Keys to the city and all. If the REAL Vig doesn't out him, we're made. But I think one way or the other it is unlikely that McDohl will survive the day. We'll need to spearhead the call to lynch him, and then look very sternlyy at Nich -- just like everyone else will.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
The best part is that even if it's a mafia plot, he's walked right into it. I still find VorpalEdge's comment interesting, too - that he'll "play along" with nich's plan for McDohl. Plus, he didn't trust spoonygundam. Possible vig?

loki (Mar 19):
So what you're saying is we hit Vorpal?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
I'm tossing it out as a possibility. But again, not on the bloc. Maybe best to just keep an eye on him -- especially since he was fixated on me for a while. Again, doesn't need a consensus to kill people.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
For a crazy killer, he's pretty reasonable. But he'll be important folks tomorrow. He'll have more clout than Nich, that's for sure.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
Part of our work tonight isn't just to pick a kill target, it's to strategize, and I'm guessing it's time to be more proactive in general.

loki (Mar 19):
Torgo!

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
So what you're saying is, we should kill Torgo?

loki (Mar 19):
Then it's agreed. Merus, our target is Torgo. Byron said so.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
We could metagame, and whack Merus. Then it'd be all lord--of-the-flies up in heres.

loki (Mar 19):
3 Mafia killings a night and only half hour days.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
We'd be new gods. Quick , we have 30 hours left, let's get to work on that tower so that we can reach him.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
He understands the same thing that RedHedge and AW do - namely, that a crafty player can say anything, and with justification, explain it, as long as they don't lie. There really isn't logic to this game, just suspicion.

dwolfe (Mar 19):
Guys, every kill we make outside the 'bloc' of trusted players makes it more likely we'll get randomly lynched or inspected. I know there's a chance bloc members might be angeled, though.
Please cite this shell game nich refers to, and why you think our angels both know what that is and agreed to it?

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
It's implicit, is the thing. Yesterday, there was one hard target - Nich. Tonight, there are several hard targets -- confirmed innocents. Nich, Aeonus, Epithet, and some suspected innocents - McDohl, AW, SpecBebop. The Angels have more choice in who to protect, now, within reason, and WE have to guess who it isn't. Last night, we could kill anyone but nich. Tonight, we want to hit a bloc member. The angels know it. There are two of them. We have to guess which target is soft. The shell game isn't a plan. It's a name for the reality of the game -- angels protect several, we have to guess which ones. That they will participate in the shell game is implicit; they are angels.

Torgo (Mar 19):
Assuming they aren't stupid.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
If only Marion had been an angel!

Torgo (Mar 19):
Someone mentioned that the vig is probably someone who hasn't been paying as much attention. Who would that single out? The only people that I can think of are Spec, Shinji, and maybe Rai.

Torgo (Mar 19):
Because honestly, more then anything I kind of want to axe the vig. He worked out for us before, but I don't expect us to be so lucky next time.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
My assumption is still vorpal or spec. Spec because he's the only person that didn't chime in after McD was accused of vigilanteism, and Vorpal because he seemed pretty smug, presumably because he could blow McD away tonight.

Torgo (Mar 19):
The only advantage of keeping the vig alive is that we could potentially get him strung up for botching it so royally with Spoony, assuming he gets exposed.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
I doubt it'll happen. The Vig is a substitute oracle. A vig that can be trusted is as good as an extra lynch per day, and it's dumb not to use him.

Torgo (Mar 19):
Okay then. I'm rethinking dwolfe's original idea of whacking epithet. At this point, he's exposed, and he's not going to be afraid of dropping the roles of whoever winds up dead. I mean, of course anyone we hit is obviously town, but without him they won't know if it's a special role, and without him there's no way to confirm any vig kills, not without exposing him.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
Is he dangerous to us, though? I mean, he can verify whether or not our kills hit power roles, but the inspector's out, and probably signing his own death warrant. Unless we want to impersonate power roles, he doesn't have a lot of impact.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 19):
I'm not against the idea, I guess I just need to be convinced that he's enough of a threat to us to risk the shell game.

Torgo (Mar 19):
Well, look at it this way: We hit someone tonight, correct? Whoever we hit, we become privvy to their role. As does the Oracle. At this point, he's not going to be afraid to spill the beans either way. This is about cutting off a source of information. If we strike an angel tonight, that would be a huge win for us, but then they would know that as well and can plan accordingly. After that, they're in the dark except for Nich, who we can exploit at least once (faking vig), and the vigilanite, who will hopefully present himself or get strung up or whacked in the next day or two.

Torgo (Mar 19):
Believe me when I say that I would sort of rather get a hit on an angel, or Nich, or Alpha, but the latter two seem unlikely, and otherwise we'd be taking a complete shot in the dark. We need the luck of our strikes to turn. I don't think failure is a certainty if we DO play it safe and hit, say, Rai, but I think we need to throw caution to the wind and strike someone "confirmed", like epithet. If not him, then perhaps Vorpal.

dwolfe (Mar 20):
Again, each 'unconfirmed' person we kill makes it more likely we die. I'm not sold on killing Ep, as an angel might figure out out thoughts, but killing more unknowns seems unwise. Maybe we can get away with it one more night. I haven't done the math.

McDohl (Mar 20):
There's unprotected non-power roles in the bloc, namely Alpha Werewolf and Aeonus, if we're too paranoid about going after Epithet.
The night's running out though, so we should get a move on the votes. I don't think Epithet is as protected as he's being made out to be, but we should try to get a victory AND get someone off the bloc. Epithet makes the most sense in this regard, since he's a power role AND in the bloc, so it comes out as win/win.
Of course, if there is still genuine doubt about Nich, now would be the time to go for him. I'm open to suggestions.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 20):
I think that if we're industrious, an unsuspicious mafia member can get Nich lynched tomorrow for fucking up over you, McD - letting the mafia in. neither dwolfe nor Loki has any real suspicion going, and torgo's low on the radar. If we're good, we can do our job, mislead the citizenry, get important people killed, and make the day pass fast.
I think that hitting Epithet is almost as risky as hitting Nich. I think that the gains are disproportionate to that risk. If the mafia is comfortable with hitting Epithet, I'll vote for it. I have misgivings, though.

loki (Mar 20):
The shell game is just too much for me. I say we hit AW or Aeonus.

dwolfe (Mar 20):
I thought people suggested AW was a selfish angel above? Aeonus isn't a bad call, as both the inspector and oracle are much more important than his role so he's less deserving of protection.
If you want to make the argument for either clearly, I'll switch my vote to either, I'm not committed to Epithet but we should get moving on this tonight.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 20):
Aeonus IS valuable, though, as he's confirmed bloc. But also less likely to be protected than a role. He might even be an angel, if we're lucky.

McDohl (Mar 20):
I nominate Aeonus then.

loki (Mar 20):
Yeah Aeonus is good for me.

Merus (Mar 20):
I'm hoping this is your final decision! The sun's about to rise.

dwolfe (Mar 20):
Ok then, Kill Aeonus, since everyone likes him. I have my doubts, but want to make a kill regardless.

Byron Fenstermaker (Mar 20):
Aeonus it is.

Merus (Mar 20):
Okay, Aeonus was a Citizen.

Destil
04-09-2010, 12:15 AM
Merus (Mar 24):
Mafia West Speakeasy - Night 4
Thank god there are still mafia alive in here!

McDohl (Mar 24):
Is it night time? You never announced it on the thread, so I am confused. :P

McDohl (Mar 24):
Thanks! That answered my question.
Alright, so we're in a bit of a pinch now. Nich has been given legitimacy as the inspector, and we've yet to hit a power role. We've got several options available to us.
1. Aim for a known power role. The angels don't have many power roles to protect outside of Nich or Epithet. This is risky, of course, since either one or both will probably be protected. Will the angels be protecting themselves at this point? Doubtful. They'll probably be protecting Nich at the very least. Epithet is probably more vulnerable.
2. Go fishing for a power role. Of the remaining non-playing, non-mafia members, there's VorpalEdge, Alpha Werewolf, Namelessentity, Rai, DemoWeasel, Loki, and Red Hedgehog. DemoWeasel very sloppily eluded to the fact that he might be some power role, though he could just be a citizen talking smack. It should be pointed out that, on Nich's suspect list, both VorpalEdge and Alpha Werewolf are listed as "probably citizens".
3. Outguess Nich. This is the most difficult, but probably the most rewarding, as it renders Nich's investigation for the night totally pointless. DemoWeasel very clumsily got Nich to post his suspect list. There are six people on his unknown-suspicious list. Loki, Rai, Red Hedgehog, Torgo - dwolfe, DemoWeasel. Cross-referencing who didn't vote for Byron, we have DemoWeasel, dwolfe, Epithet, Loki, and Red Hedgehog. Of the two lists, we've got DemoWeasel and Red Hedgehog.
It seems, if we try and hedge our bets, DemoWeasel and Red Hedgehog seem like the best targets, since we could go fishing for a power role while equally trying to render Nich powerless for an investigation. Additionally, DemoWeasel might find himself being the victim of a lynch if we let him roam free, though I imagine Nich will probably equally try to investigate dwolfe tonight. Thoughts?
I'll be around tonight, in case we want to livechat this.

dwolfe (Mar 24):
I'll be arguing my vigilante case when Nich inspects me. I'll ask for someone (non-mafia) to make a post compilation, but I've been dropping hints since day 1 I could be the vigilante. I still can't figure out how McDohl got put on the safe list, but the fact that I didn't like Nich choosing to lynch McDohl on day 2 might get you inspected sooner than we'd like (I still can't believe Epithet got so lucky as to be inspected that early. He's not really contributed much).
We got screwed by the marion thing day one. We had a very good chance/odds when we had six mafia, but when they got a day 1 mafia kill, it put the odds squarely in their favour. But it's the playing of the game that should be fun.
Again. We need time limits in future game day-times. that week long thing seems to have killed interest. Anyone that was still posting was certainly a power role, right?
I've also pointed out that the vigilante could kill any guilty party and the oracle could confirm identity...I still don't understand Nich's reluctance to go for that other than he's being a pompous wanna-be brickroad (who he is talking to and getting advice from at all times apparently...rather than playing it straight. He's really doesn't understand the whole premise of this being only for people IN THE GAME and your own ideas. Given how poorly people are behaving in gamespite, might be my last mafia game here. They just don't get the game!)
On who to lynch: I still wish we'd have gone after Epithet yesterday, but it might have whiffed. I have no ideas today. But leave ShinjiFox alone, he's quite lynch worthy :)

McDohl (Mar 24):
Careful. Both the actual vigilante and the oracle are both still alive. This is very risky at this point in time. Do you think we should go after the oracle?

Torgo (Mar 24):
No, I don't think Shinji is lynch worth at all. Not any more. I am positive he's a power role, what with his not-so-subtle hint-droppng today and all. Since we know he's not trying to cover being mafia, he's either an angel or the vigilante. I'm not sure which.

Torgo (Mar 24):
I'm hoping he'll investigate Shinji or Red Hedgehog tonight. I'd much rather they get another bloc member then us have to play our fake vigilante card yet. Of course, that entire plan at this point hinges on us not actually killing the Vigilante, since Epithet is still running around doing less then myself (while I get yelled at by Alpha for it.) If I weren't actually guilty I'd be rocking some rightous indignation.
So... yeah, while I wouldn't mind hitting the vig, it does eliminate our smokescreen.

Torgo (Mar 24):
I'm leaning towards Shinji as angel. He wouldn't drop hints so readily (or enthusiastically) about being a power role that's contributed nothing besides kill an innocent.

dwolfe (Mar 24):
But guys, he's a slow reader, he said so! What do you expect from him, actual active participation?

loki (Mar 24):
Hell. I missed a whole day. Sorry guys, I've had a hell of a week and wasn't able to participate in the thread at all.
I'm the worst Mafia player ever. And to prove it here is where I don't contribute anything. Let me read up on just what happened and I'll get back to you guys. =\

dwolfe (Mar 24):
Killing an oracle now seems pointless. Nich obviously doesn't care if he kills the Vigilante, he's on a power trip and the numbers favour him just playing the game all by himself. no sane angel would leave him unprotected. need to do the math, but we're probably lost and it'll just take a week to prove it.

McDohl (Mar 24):
Then a hail mary? Go right after Nich? I... don't really think it's possible.
We haven't lost yet. It's just not easy enough for us to win at the moment.

dwolfe (Mar 24):
Again. Can you cite, anywhere in our thread, the 'shell game' Nich keeps talking about? Do you think the Angels know what he's talking about? Unless he assumed people read the first thread or East (maybe??), it's not been mentioned. This worries me.
We DO want to make a hit. I'm declaring one now just in case, but if someone chooses otherwise, my votes to back theirs so a hit can go through.
I'd like to say I have a great strategy here, but Nich second guesses himself every 20 minutes, he's too hard to predict. But it'd be swell to make him doubt his list of suspicious vs trustworthy. However, if we do hit the vigilante, all inspections on us are grounds for immediate lynching. If each angel flipped a coin to protect Nich or Epithet, it'd still likely keep them from dying, so I say don't try to kill either power role unless you can argue why both angels would ignore one of them. Even if we do kill Epithet, they can just lynch their vigilante and still probably win.
Namelessentity hasn't been inspected, and I don't know why Nich trusts him when the guy before was inactive.
There's 12 total, 8 citizen and 4 mafia, or 7 innocent and 5 guilty inspections (5 innocent inspections yet to happen). If we exchange kills 1 for 1 we obviously lose; even 2 to 1 we lose without some luck.
If we start killing Nich's probable citizen list, I assume he'd wonder why we didn't go after McDohl on the third night (but lists do change and he might miss it).
I tentatively say we might vote for DemoWeasel, but people seem to think he's a power role, and it's probably me or him getting inspected? I just hope he isn't throwing himself out very, very crudely as mafia bait and protecting himself as the Angel. If he's a power role, it's 2/3 chance to be Angel at this point.
Thoughts?
We get 48 hours to make up our minds, so please speak up ASAP.

Torgo (Mar 25):
We're past the "do or die" point: That was yesterday. I completely agree that we should've taken the chance and struck Epithet. I suppose if Shinji is an Angel, he very well might protect himself, but at this point hitting another vanillla citizen or whiffing doesn't mean much difference to me. We've killed every night and we're against the ropes. Who could the other angel be? Vorpal, maybe? Unless the discussion over the next in the next yeilds a different mark, I'ma tenatively put my vote in as well to go for the gusto and strike Shinji. Unless we start hitting angels, we're screwed.

dwolfe (Mar 25):
I reread McDohl's first post, and Red Hedgehog might be the ideal target. The more I think about it, the more I worry DemoWeasel's an Angel fishing for a Mafia or Vigilante attack to prove who he is. He's not contributing much otherwise to the game.
Hrm. Merus has said more than once he'll just open up our waves when the game is over, I hope no one is taking things personally in or out of game. I'm just dumping thoughts in the wave as I have them.

McDohl (Mar 25):
If I had to guess the roster, it's:
Nich - Inspector
Epithet - Oracle
Alpha Werewolf, Shinji - Angels
Red Hedgehog - Vigilante
I feel like I'm forgetting a power role here. Well, whatever.
Now if Shinji's really baiting, that would mean that there's an opening on someone else. The question is if the other angel is doing the same thing. Probably not. I'm barely awake right now.
I'd push towards Red Hedgehog as our target.

dwolfe (Mar 25):
I trust McDohl, and tentatively push Red OR an Angel...
I just don't know how seriously Shinji is actually taking the game, he just hasn't spoken up enough to read him and what he'd do if he were an Angel. But I'd rather off the vigilante. I feel like my set-up to be the vigilante if the Oracle was dead has gone to waste now, but if Red Hedgehog (for example) were to Vig kill me, proclaim himself trusted Vigilante, and would just shotgun an unknown every night...Citizens would win, trivially, with just their current trust block. Angels could just go to self-protection OR Nich (flip a coin) to prove who they were, Nich can keep inspecting. It's a guaranteed win scenario.
If we can at least kill the vigilante, we can reduce the number of Citizen kills attempts per day. At this point they'd help Citizens as much as Mafia if the Vig were to randomly kill unknowns to speed up the game.
McDohl, what do you think about killing AlphaWerewolf, though? If we could knock out one of the two angels, that might open up killings in the trusted block (nich, epithet, etc) with much lower risk of an angel save. If we miss, we give strong evidence he's not Mafia without an investigation, so it's higher risk.

dwolfe (Mar 25):
I'd rather kill a 'known trusted' but when there's only two of them...yeah, an angel kill would be ideal today, so we can go after 'known trusted' people rather than unknowns we're hiding amongst.

McDohl (Mar 25):
I am generally wary of anyone doing general baiting against the mafia. As it stands, Nich doesn't exactly trust Alpha Werewolf though. I don't know if that can be exploited or not. One thing that hasn't been working well (besides a perfect shitstorm of nothing but civilians) is our ability to influence debate AT ALL. It's basically become "Well, here's what Nich suggests we do". Now that Nich's been legitimized, we have to strategically play out the whole scenario...
...even if it's Erratic Crash Car Derby.

dwolfe (Mar 25):
Problem with this game is that it's turned into the Nich show. I mean, seriously. No one has any influence at all. That's why I argued to let the Vigilante take care of Byron, give someone else something to do. Hasn't been an Angel save, nothing. Even Epithet isn't backing Nich's reveals at this point.

McDohl (Mar 25):
Epithet didn't say anything?
Yeah, Epithet cleared Aeonus. That's all though. Hrm.

McDohl (Mar 25):
Well I have a feeling Nich's going to hit another mafia investigation tonight. We really need to start smashing some angel face in to get anywhere. Any scenario where we win, at this point, involves a very long game, and probably means getting down to the wire. To get to Nich, we have to have at LEAST another three nights, and I can't think of a scenario where we win WHILE Nich is alive.
I've convinced myself Alpha is an angel. I think the rhetoric is intentional to get mafia to miss on an evening, figuring the OTHER angel is protecting Nich. Once we get THAT angel, Alpha will have to protect Nich, even if it costs himself.
Now, if we really believe Shinji is baiting, PLUS an angel, that means Nich is open. I'm kind of exasperated at this point, but I really don't want to do this unless every other member is on board (I said that last evening too, as this is stupidly risky). If there's no total agreement, then I'm going to suggest Red Hedgehog.

McDohl (Mar 25):
In fact, to make my case a little better...
Right now, we need four civilian deaths to win. We excuse Nich and Epithet as strictly-bloc voters. That leaves us with a target pool of six.
We hit a citizen, target pool of five: Three to win.
Nich investigates someone. If he clears someone, our target pool is down to four. In this event, they will likely vote to not lynch.
We hit another citizen, target pool is down to three. Two to win. Repeat previous process. Target pool is down to 1. We shoot them (assuming no angel involvement). One to win, and at this point Nich has nothing but mafia left to investigate.
Unless we involve ourselves in the shell game, we will have proverbially fucked ourselves, and that's assuming Nich's playing at his WORST (which isn't exactly unattainable).
My logic is this: Both angels right now can easily work against each other. They can figure that the other angel is probably protecting Nich, so that if they protect themselves, that'll account towards a mafia miss if they are targeted. I think Nich is more vulnerable than we're giving ourselves credit for.
But maybe I'm just tired of this and I'm not thinking clearly. If not Nich, then Red Hedgehog. That's my stance.

loki (Mar 25):
Woah hey, I finally clear my schedule and settle in to catch up and night's already over? Excuse me if this is incorrect, Merus, but Talking Time's clock shows that night started at 6:48 am (my time) yesterday and ended at 6:56 pm today. Isn't that only 36 hours?

Merus (Mar 25):
Okay, that's pretty bad on my part. You have 12 hours. Sorry.

loki (Mar 25):
No big. I can understand the frustration of the game feeling like it's fizzeling out. I've just had a hell of a week and wasn't able to give the threat the time it needed. I'll be much more participatory here on out.

loki (Mar 25):
McDohl makes a lot of sense, but I think it's backwards. I want Nich gone. He's way too powerful and trusted right now. I've been thinking that the angel's see this too and can't let themselves assume the other has Nich. My guess is that they've both protected him for the past two nights, leaving everyone else open.
Shinji: From what I know of his personality is that he isn't baiting. I think his clue dropping is more an attempt to endear himself to Nich and thus save himself from a lynch than any kind of baiting. Still, I think as long as Nich doesn't investigate him tonight (or another Mafia) we might be able to get the town to lynch him. They don't like quiet people and right now he's the most quiet person there is. I bet we can use his dropping that he's a power role as proof that he's guilty and thus is trying to tie himself to Nich as defence.
Basically, I think we shouldn't waste our hit on him. As much as I want to hit Nich I don't think he's unprotected tonight.
I vote we off Alpha Werewolf. I just hope our assumptions are right that he's an angel.
In a perfect world we get him tonight, get the mob to lynch Shinji tomorrow, then with both angels gone, off Nich tomorrow night. This requires a lot of assumptions to go right so I don't think'll happen. At this point we need luck more than anything. Everyone, make sure your horseshoes are well polished and that you've all kissed a lepercon.
Also, we'll miss you Byron. You were one of the greats.

loki (Mar 25):
Well I was hoping someone would turn up before bedtime. Oh well. If anyone agrees with a AW kill make sure you say so before the night runs out. Otherwise, Merus, I change my vote to DemnoFox in order to form some kind of concencious and not end the night without a kill. That's the last thing we want.

Torgo (Mar 25):
Well, if anyone would lay protection on himself its Alpha, I'd say. That's why I've been wary since the beginning of striking him. At this point, I would say either him or Shinji. (Just got home from work, myself.)

loki (Mar 25):
yeah I agree he seems like the selfish sort. But I don't think either angel would risk not protecting Nich right now.

McDohl (Mar 25):
I'm here! \o.O/ I'm reading.

Torgo (Mar 25):
However, if we DID get Alpha, it would be sweet, sweet come-uppance. The dude's consistently singled me out first in the "not posting crowd" and it grates. Of course, I realize that's the intended effect.

loki (Mar 25):
There's a risk with hitting either Nich or Alpha but the rewards for both are high. I think that it's worth the risk to try one. And AW is the lesser risk of the two.

McDohl (Mar 25):
Here's the thing. You're always going to second guess yourself until you do something. So when you decide on who to hit, keep it in mind.
Also hindsight is 20-20.

loki (Mar 25):
Totally. I see now we should have hit power roles than all those citizans we killed.

McDohl (Mar 25):
Here's the thing with AW though. Even if we DO hit him, we get VERY little out of it, unless he's a power role. Right now, he's on the "probably citizen" list. Even if it is a hit, he might just be a citizen, whereas Nich is PROBABLY not going to investigate him and focus more on someone he's unsure of, possibly to his folly, but an investigation nonetheless.
The reason why I put forth Shinji and RedHedgehog is that Nich might investigate them tonight, on top of which we can hit one of the angels. If AW IS an Angel, he would be all about instigating things for a reaction to get a mafia miss, which is something we might explicitly get going after him. And if it IS a hit, that means we've gained very little of the upper hand.

Torgo (Mar 25):
So you're suggesting we try and strike an angel tonight, then use the oracle against them. He'll spill the beans of course, which will probably free us to strike at our educated guess to the second one. If the second is Alpha, all the better.

loki (Mar 25):
So Shinji then? I really Really REALLY doubt he's baiting. And his comment gave it all away.

McDohl (Mar 25):
Either Shinji or RedHedgehog.

loki (Mar 25):
But what proof do we have that RedHedgehog is anything? Did I miss something?

Torgo (Mar 25):
I think there's some metagaming afoot behind RedHedgehog's power role. I don't remember the details though.

McDohl (Mar 25):
Not a power role as much as a potential Nich-investigation-target. The idea is if Nich is investigating RH, and we take him out, Nich's investigation is rendered completely pointless, and they're down one citizen. It's not so much as what power role RH is (though that would be even nicer) as it is leveling the playing field a bit.

McDohl (Mar 25):
Also: I hate Death Note.

loki (Mar 25):
Ha.
Do we have any assurance that Nich will investigate him? He's such a wild cannon... derby car driver. He said he was going to investigate SpecBebop and ended up going after Byron instead.

Torgo (Mar 25):
I'm guessing dwolfe will get the investigation, but Shinji and Reddy are both possibilities in my book.

McDohl (Mar 25):
I outlined earlier, somewhat pragmatically, as to whom Nich might investigate. Red Hedgehog fit the criteria of "not voting for Byron" and "unknown".
ShinjiWeasel fit the same criteria, though he's "suspicious". Nich will probably avoid investigating "suspicious" in an attempt to swerve the mafia (us).

loki (Mar 25):
I can see that. I'm just worried about hitting Red and then finding out he's not a power role and that Nich didn't investigate. It's like double shell game.

McDohl (Mar 25):
Well, of course. But that can be said for any target that's not Nich or Epithet.
Unless we go for Nich. :D

loki (Mar 25):
I'd love to. I just can't believe the angles don't have him coverd.

loki (Mar 25):
Alright, it really is bedtime. I offically change my vote to Shinji. If you guys decide something else than I will go along with it in order to make sure we do kill SOMEBODY tonight.

loki (Mar 25):
See you in the daytime, fellas.

Torgo (Mar 25):
G'night, man.

McDohl (Mar 25):
I don't know. I'm tired of the game. I kind of want it to be over. :P

Torgo (Mar 25):
Naw, the gauntlet's been thrown down. I'ma see this through to the conclusion, even if it takes another ten game days.

McDohl (Mar 25):
So, it sounds like our choices have morphed into Shinji and AlphaWerewolf. If that's the case, then I'll go with Werewolf.

Torgo (Mar 25):
Agreed. If we hit Alpha and he's a power role, it's a decisive strike that might put us back on track. I change my vote to give Alpha Warewolf a nice pair of shoes.

loki (Mar 25):
I walked the dog and now I'm REALLY going to bed. But I JUST had to check in one more time. If were going with AW than I'm all aboard. I re-change my vote back to Alpha Werewolf. Goodnight for reals! ZZzzzz....

McDohl (Mar 25):
Alright. Hopefully dwolfe will chime in before daybreak. For now I vote for Alpha Werewolf.

dwolfe (Mar 25):
I just got in, I was out since I last posted.
MERUS LETS DO THIS THING and vote for Alpha Werewolf.
And my fine Mafia fellows, it's been a pleasure knowing you. I'm honestly expecting to get investigated AND shotgunned tonight after yesterday's gameplay. I still think i was right to point out that Nich could lie at any point, given than no one is challenging him.
I'm also going to comment that it'd sure be nice for each person in future games to think for themselves. Conversing about the game constantly with someone else seems powerful.
So Merus, if you're online and you were waiting on us, sorry for the delays. After the week+ day turns, 36 hours on a key night decision isn't that bad.

dwolfe (Mar 25):
PS: on Alpha...if he's still protecting himself when both the Oracle and Investigator are outed, that's just crazy selfish, but I see it as a valid game tactic...if the two angels are unkillable, as long as they don't get lynched the citizens have a safety buffer.

McDohl (Mar 25):
Hi dwolfe!
If the bullet bounces, we'll get him the next night. He won't protect himself twice.

dwolfe (Mar 25):
Why not?

McDohl (Mar 25):
I would just assume that in an effort to minimalize kills, he'd shuffle around, figuring we'd go after someone else.
Maybe not. Who knows.

dwolfe (Mar 25):
I just dont' know alpha well enough, other than he's into crazy complicated variants. that one he linked to? it had like 40 complicated powers, people that were dead but not, it was just....no. roles and rules need to be simple and understood by all, so they can't be gamed.

dwolfe (Mar 25):
But with the current roles/rules, it's the investigator show starring the investigator. any angel that doesn't protect the investigator at all costs is insane, as the investigator guarantees wins if we cant' find him on night 1 or 2.

McDohl (Mar 25):
I'm getting the sense you have a problem with Nich. :P

dwolfe (Mar 25):
Honestly? no. Brickroad played Mr Investigator in game 1. And basically, it was his show and his game after a few days.
Nich did the same thing even earlier.
I had been assigned to be investigator (and would have gotten lynched by day 2 despite that) before Merus rerolled things, so I actually thought things through before the game started.
And my ideas just. don't. count.
The role is too powerful as it stands, that's all. I haven't seen Eastside yet, but I assume their investigator is still alive, they're also forming trusted blocs, and the mafia would wiff if they dared try to take him out as long as an angel lives. Unless the mafia lucks out to kill at least one angel night one...
I posted a bunch of ideas in the mafia main-game thread on how to get more people than the investigator actually involved in the game. If the citizens get Alice or SpecBebop as inspector, they're kinda screwed. Nothing personal about them, just people who commit then back out mid-game. It happens, it's RL, but man it screws people over. Like taking over silent Noise's role in Eastside...you're a dead man walking.
Any last things to talk about, as I truely expect to be dead when night is over, or during the day?
...afaik Nich and brickroad are in constant communication about the game. I just don't think you should talk about it with anyone outside the immediate game, save it for an AAR write up. I dunno, that's just the gentleman's rules I've always seen, prevents metagaming, and feels so much sweeter when you come up with the ideas yourself.
Oh, dude, I wasn't implying you would say something. I like brick. But if you talk to them about it too much, it's hard to not slip. Anyway, g'night McDohl.
If we get an angel, I would suggest thinking hard on taking out Nich or the other possible angel tomorrow night. Best two kills we can make, but therefore the two the angel should be protecting...so Epithet might work too at that point...

McDohl (Mar 25):
Don't sweat it. Brickroad's my bud, and I haven't told him that I'm mafia in this game. As far as he knows, I'm citizenry.
As far as I know, he could be mafia in HIS game. :D
Nah, don't worry about it. My lips are sealed, and I'm in fact playing it up as if I were a citizen.
night.

McDohl (Mar 25):
As far as I know, east side is doing better in the sense that there's two mafioso left. Other than that, I don't know.
I've conjectured to Brickroad that the game is only fun if you're the investigator. At least in it's current state.

Merus (Mar 25):
Okay, you hit Alpha Werewolf!
He was a Citizen, I'm sorry to say.

dwolfe (Mar 26):
We are the Charlie Browns of the Mafia world. We keep kicking at the ball, and Sally keeps pulling it away!
Cheers to tomorrow night's ordinary Citizen killing, gents!

dwolfe (Apr 1):
Let me just say I wish you guys had gone for anyone besides Nich....how many times did I say if i were an angel i'd protect our inspector.
Nich is being a real ass and basically taunting at this point. I couldn't blame if you conceded the game. Not like I helped, but I'm sick of it being the inspector's game, and Nich was about 10x the asshole I expected him to be. He's a really great guy normally, but he's too bored and into this and a power role, a bad combination.
...heh, odds are 10:1 for I'd have gotten myself lynched if I had been inspector in a game.

McDohl (Apr 2):
Yeah, that's great. I outlined why.
We lost once you were lynched. We didn't have the numbers.

Destil
04-09-2010, 12:17 AM
Merus (Mar 28):
Mafia West Speakeasy - Night 5
Well! A minor setback, perhaps, but it depends on your point of view.
What's on the agenda for tonight?

loki (Mar 28):
Sorry Dwolf! Sorry! Oh god. I'm so sorry. Oh what have we done?
*sob*

Merus (Mar 28):
He can't see you! It's okay!
Well, he'll be able to read this later, I guess.

loki (Mar 28):
Okay, here's my plan. We off Epithet tonight. Shinji's protecting himself and gotta figure the other angel's got Nich. Then with Epithet out of the way one of us can claim to be the vigilante. That way there's an excuse for a guilty verdict if Nich investigates one of us tonight. Then, and this will take some work because these folks are hard to sway, when the real vigilante outs himself we convince the mob to off them instead. Or something like that...

McDohl (Mar 28):
I told ALL OF YOU PEOPLE.
Nich investigated Red Hedgehog, whom I suggested.
Shinji was an angel, whom I suggested.
I never trust myself EVER with ANYTHING, and YOU PEOPLE need to listen to me more! :P

Torgo (Mar 28):
In fairness, I originally backed your plan to hit Shinji, but the arguement against Alpha was very persuasive. Considering his activity, he was simply too tempting of a target.
At any rate, despite my bravado in the previous night about going the distance, my resolve was pretty much shot the moment Nich pointed out his bloc now outnumbers the mafia. I said nothing the whole day, which all too likely means I'm going to get called out tomorrow. I might still play the vigilante card since dwolfe did not. At this point though, my spirit is quite crushed.

Torgo (Mar 28):
I could make a pretty convincing arguement for being the vig that would get me through the day though. Unfortunately, posing as vig would likely put one of you on the chopping block for the day at this point. There aren't a lot of "unknowns" left. Still, if we could effciently pull off a ruse that ended in death of someone essential, I would be very satisfied.

Torgo (Mar 28):
At this point I would question the need to hit Epithet. I think we'd be better served by taking a potshot at the other angel, if anything. The only thing that worries me is hitting the vig at this point, because if we kill him and epithet is still alive, we lose our final card to play.

McDohl (Mar 28):
I have to crunch the math, but unless we hit Nich tonight, I think we lose.
Give me a sec.

McDohl (Mar 28):
Ten players, three mafia, four citizens need to be hit.
Nich's bloc is himself, epithet, red hedgehog. Seven players remaining.
McDohl, Torgo, Loki are mafia. Four unknowns remaining.
Nich clears someone, three unknowns remaining, two unknowns remaining since Shinji who will be added to the bloc, making it five. Nich hits mafia, two mafia remaining. Six citizens need to be hit for a win. Impossible to reach due to bloc... I think? Yeah. Four bloc members (Shinji will be added tonight), two mafia, four unknowns.
If we hit Nich or whoever he's investigating, then our chances of winning increase, as the only member added to the bloc at that point will be Shinji. Three still in the bloc after Shinji's confirm, three mafia, four unknowns.
If we hit someone in the bloc, they still get +2, whereas Nich or his target will get +1. Hitting Nich gets the bonus benefit of making the bloc stay as-is.
Shinji is protecting himself tonight. There is one angel out there. The question is, is that angel protecting Nich at this point? Or are they trying to outplay us and get us to whiff?

Torgo (Mar 28):
I'm fairly doubtful of that at this point. If I were an angel I wouldn't try something like that. Of course, it's possible, however unlikely, that they assume that Nich is nigh invulnerable at this point and might not even bother, since the remaining mafia would never be so stupid as to whiff trying to hit the inspector with both angels still alive.

McDohl (Mar 28):
I feel our other option is trying to figure out Nich's target if not mafia.
But I think we should go after Nich. It's the best play at this point. Any other beneficial outcome relies on us outpredicting Nich again. We'll lose to the numbers if we don't.
Even if we hit Angel #1, there's no predicting what Shinji will do. Actually, he might figure himself to be next, and protect himself. But by that point, the Bloc is +2, with only two unknowns (five if you count mafia in). That bloc simply votes to kill everyone else off.
I think.
It's a hail mary play at this point. But that's all the choices we have left. Were I an angel, I would figure the mafia would go for the better hail mary chance and protect myself to force a whiff (or maybe even protect someone else in the bloc), than go for Nich, since it would be a game over for the mafia if they did.

McDohl (Mar 28):
Yeah, at this point', it's guess Nich's target, or get Nich.
If anyone can come up with another scenario in which we win, I'm all ears.

Torgo (Mar 28):
No, at this point I can't much think of anything, considering there's just as good of a chance he'll investigate one of us, which sinks the whole notion of trying to hit his investigation target.

loki (Mar 29):
Which if he does we basically have to claim to be the vig which is why I came up with my plan to get Epithet. But I agree it's Nich or lose. I say we take the chance and hope the other angel is trying to outsmart us by protecting Red or something. I say we put all the chips on the table and kill Nich.

McDohl (Mar 29):
All right. Let's go all in.
I vote for Nich.

Torgo (Mar 30):
Very well. Nich it is.

Merus (Mar 30):
Nich was protected by an Angel, I'm sorry to say - the Angel got in under 48 hours.

Destil
04-09-2010, 12:18 AM
Merus (Apr 2):
Mafia West Speakeasy - Night 6
So, there's two of you left. Both of you told me that you were interested in surrendering. Is that still true?

McDohl (Apr 2):
Yep.

Torgo (Apr 2):
Yes. I am dead anyway, let us be done with the matter.

Destil
04-09-2010, 12:19 AM
Archivist's note: some names were changed to protect the not-so-innocent.

DemoWeasel
04-09-2010, 01:34 AM
what the hell loki you don't know me

Alpha Werewolf
04-09-2010, 04:17 AM
I'm honored that I was compared to Brick early on. Moreso, I'm glad my power ruse worked - though I had hoped that you'd peg me as the Inspector.

Kylie
04-09-2010, 07:07 AM
Heh. All I have to say to this is that 1) while I really wasn't playing very intelligently, my general strategy (such as it was) was to keep the Mafia off-balance by doing bizarre things in the daytime that they couldn't have predicted and planned for the previous night, and judging by the "bumper cars" epithet it seems to have worked, and 2) while I did frequently talk to Brick during the game, we only talked in the most general sense (I never even told him my role) and I never told him what the general situation was or asked for advice on what to do. (I mean, if I had, don't you think I would've been a little less dumb?)

I also maintain that I wouldn't have seemed quite as retarded if you guys had the same imperfect knowledge of all the game's roles!

Really, the mafia's only weapon is imperfect knowledge, right? If I'd been a little more careful, it might have bought us a day - but only a day.

Aeonus
04-09-2010, 08:20 AM
Is the Day 3 log incomplete? The part that's posted doesn't contain them agreeing to whack me.

Same thing for Day 4, I think. Did you hit the per-post character limit?

Red Hedgehog
04-09-2010, 09:10 AM
I'm impressed that through metagame knowledge, I was pegged as a special role. Though actually, when I joined I immediately PMed Merus to say I was protecting myself. Mostly because since Nich's bad idea had gone through, I didn't think he was a target and I thought maybe I would look suspicious.

For the next two nights I flipped a coin between protecting me or Nich and it landed me. So the mafia had the right idea, but they would have whiffed on an assassination attempt of me. And then, of course, on the night they hail maryed, since I knew Shinji had to protected himself I just protected Nich.

Destil
04-09-2010, 07:14 PM
Is the Day 3 log incomplete? The part that's posted doesn't contain them agreeing to whack me.

Same thing for Day 4, I think. Did you hit the per-post character limit?

I know there were some issues with the day one/two wave, but I'll take a look...

Destil
04-10-2010, 12:45 AM
I've fixed nights 3 and 4. Sorry.

DemoWeasel
04-10-2010, 01:10 AM
I find it amusing that my name change actually pissed somebody off.

Brickroad
04-10-2010, 08:29 AM
Yeah dwolfe, that's pretty low.

Alpha Werewolf
04-10-2010, 11:39 AM
I find it amusing that my name change actually pissed somebody off.

It pissed me off because the old name was so much better.

THIS REFFERS TO YOU TOO LILSPRITEX

DemoWeasel
04-10-2010, 11:43 AM
You should change your name to something I like, then!

Alpha Werewolf
04-10-2010, 12:56 PM
You should change your name to something I like, then!

No can do! I've sworn that my avatar and name will not change unless I go through a significant change.

Brickroad
04-10-2010, 01:49 PM
No can do! I've sworn that my avatar and name will not change unless I go through a significant change.

...when he comes back, she'll be Allison Werewolf.

Sprite
04-10-2010, 01:54 PM
I find it amusing that my name change actually pissed somebody off.

That's why I waited until after the game was over. I didn't want to piss anyone off.

THIS REFFERS TO YOU TOO LILSPRITEX

:(

dwolfe
04-10-2010, 01:54 PM
It really bothers me how much it's revealed in the new material that dwolfe assumed I was cheating and asking Brick for tips the whole game.

I deeply and sincerely apologize that private communications about a game I made could wound you so much, Nich. No one had promised not to talk about the game with friends, and I had evidence to support the theory, namely that you talked about an Angel shell game like someone had mentioned it in the game, when it hadn't been.

One of us dropped this a while ago, by the way. Obviously you didn't. So please, continue to get it out of your system, Nich, I'm sorry I got under your skin so much. It's cool.

Kylie
04-10-2010, 02:23 PM
I wouldn't advise you to be too offended; we weren't too worried that you were cheating, we were just uneasy that our game might be being influenced by someone who wasn't playing. For contrast, imagine that McDohl had been chatting with Paul le Fou throughout, and that'd probably make you a little uneasy w/r/t our possible rule-breaking metagame.

VorpalEdge
04-10-2010, 02:53 PM
I'm really amused by how you guys thought I was a candidate for the vigilante. If I was, I would never have accused Byron on day 2 and would have just offed him that night. :P

Brickroad
04-10-2010, 02:57 PM
The thing is, dwolfe, Nich and I never really talked about either of our games as they were happening. You made some pretty unfair snap judgments and said some unkind things about us both.

Someone's taking all this Mafia stuff a little too personally, but it ain't Nich.