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  #18271  
Old 10-21-2018, 04:36 PM
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Anyway, who could have imagined the Pokemon anime would make an incredibly overt reference to Utena?

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  #18272  
Old 10-21-2018, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
For anyone who has been interested in watching Gundam Thunderbolt but hasn't yet for whatever reason, both "seasons" are up right now on the Gundam.info youtube channel to watch for free in their movie versions:
Those were great! Thanks for the heads up. Though I think it's a little... cowardly of the writers to invent a a third party that both sets of protagonists can be set against. The best part of December Sky was how no matter who won, I lost. Really liked how both Io and Daryl gave up their humanity in different ways.
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  #18273  
Old 10-21-2018, 05:33 PM
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The framerate and models for the CG stuff seemed even jankier than usual for this kind of thing, so maybe it's intentional?
Yeah thatís why Iím wondering. Everything else about this is super carefully constructed so the zombiesí dancing becoming super jank and robotic and off-model...
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  #18274  
Old 10-21-2018, 06:02 PM
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Anyway, who could have imagined the Pokemon anime would make an incredibly overt reference to Utena?

Jesse went through lots of Megumi Hayashibara's costumes too.
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  #18275  
Old 10-21-2018, 06:34 PM
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I doubt Anima Yell is going to have a ton of appeal for anyone who doesn't already have at least some affinity for CGDCT, but it did just feature one of the most wholesome, positive coming-out scenes in anime. It's really just a super wholesome and positive show all around, and surprisingly athletic too, like some sort of karmic counterbalance to both Hanebado and Harukana Receive. It's also the closest thing we'll get to a legal stream of Hugtto Precure
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  #18276  
Old 10-21-2018, 07:51 PM
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Because it is fucking impossible to browse... Is there anything simulcast on Amazon Prime this season that's worth watching?
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  #18277  
Old 10-21-2018, 08:18 PM
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Karakuri Circus, possibly. Itís a weirdo action show from the creator of Ushio & Tora.

I donít actually know what else is on Prime this season!
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  #18278  
Old 10-21-2018, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Erilex View Post
The Chimera Ant arc has some of the most poorly paced episodes in all of Hunter X Hunter. I vaguely remember one that was just the narrator talking while some old dude punched the air for 20 minutes.

It's also, in spite of its many lows, absolutely goddamn amazing
Man the narrative of that arc sure did Ponzu and Pokkle dirty.
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  #18279  
Old 10-22-2018, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Zef View Post
Jesse went through lots of Megumi Hayashibara's costumes too.
Was going to post this also. The Pokemon anime's homage game is off the hook lately.

Also, saw this on twitter, thought it was post-worthy: a beautiful explicit coming-out scene in a cheerleading moe-blob (I think? this clip is all I've seen of it) anime.
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  #18280  
Old 10-22-2018, 10:01 AM
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Goddammit, do I need to start watching Pokemon TV?
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  #18281  
Old 10-22-2018, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Sensenic View Post
Was going to post this also. The Pokemon anime's homage game is off the hook lately.

Also, saw this on twitter, thought it was post-worthy: a beautiful explicit coming-out scene in a cheerleading moe-blob (I think? this clip is all I've seen of it) anime.
Just to clarify, this is video of the same scene mentioned a few posts above:

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Originally Posted by q 3 View Post
I doubt Anima Yell is going to have a ton of appeal for anyone who doesn't already have at least some affinity for CGDCT, but it did just feature one of the most wholesome, positive coming-out scenes in anime. It's really just a super wholesome and positive show all around, and surprisingly athletic too, like some sort of karmic counterbalance to both Hanebado and Harukana Receive. It's also the closest thing we'll get to a legal stream of Hugtto Precure
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  #18282  
Old 10-22-2018, 11:23 AM
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It might be? It seems to be a staple of idol shows by this point. Perhaps it's an intentional parody.

Of course, they are probably just doing it to cut back on animation costs, like pretty much every other idol anime.
Can confirm. Janky-ass cg models singing and dancing has been the bread and butter of The Extremely Popular Idol Genre Show Love Live - frequently it will switch from hand-drawn animation on details, to some reasonably egregious CG dancing, as exemplified here.

Other elements of the form include a wildly janky, careening camera, and lots of visual effects and static, with the purpose of obscuring the CG itself. In practice, Love Live is just kind of an aggressively mediocre genre entry.

And, of course, in proper fashion, this episode of ZLS was titled DEAD OR LIVE SAGA. So the CG jankiness and mayonnaise-sandwich pacing and plotting of this episode were absolutely a shot across the bow at Love Live.

The problem with doing genre satire of things that are mediocre is that your satire ends up being mediocre too, unfortunately. I didn't think this episode was as strong as previous entries, but for now I'm going to chalk that up to genre issues.
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  #18283  
Old 10-22-2018, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by LancerECNM View Post
Those were great! Thanks for the heads up. Though I think it's a little... cowardly of the writers to invent a a third party that both sets of protagonists can be set against. The best part of December Sky was how no matter who won, I lost. Really liked how both Io and Daryl gave up their humanity in different ways.
That's...sort of the problem with most of the immediate post-OYW side material, tbh. 0079 makes it painfully clear that the Zeon army's resources had been stretched to the breaking point by the time the Federation rolled out the RGM series with the only reason for their continued success being the tech edge they held with mobile suits. Which then rolls into the very 1944 Germany aspect of Zeon then throwing every prototype and half-baked idea at the Feds to stall their advance and failing miserably. The Gelgoog/Kampfer and a few other "production" units sort of serve in the ME-242 (?) and MP44 role; things that would've turned the tide of the war had they the time and materials to produce them in quantity.

So the endless plucky bands of Zeon holdouts can't be too much of a serious threat to a Fed Army and special forces still at the height of its war prowess, hence Thunderbolt's SE Asian separatists, which also gets into the disparity between Io's and Daryl's segments of Bandit Flower; Io still gets his flashy new RX-79 derivative and assault carrier with mooks, while Daryl's stuck with a kludged version of an outdated specialist unit and a single squad of similar units.
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  #18284  
Old 10-22-2018, 01:53 PM
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That's a fair assessment, and I guess pretty unavoidable. And since it involves psycommu stuff, that pretty much locks it into a timeframe.



Speaking of Revolutionary Girl Utena, I'm watching it! Up to like episode 15. Wow, what an absolutely glamorous show!

-- Disturbing / Triggering Content Warning, like, the rest of this post, aaaand Utena itself --

Also wow, so much implied incest! I was not prepared for this in any capacity! Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I've been reading Lilian Min's recaps from 2016 on The Mary Sue after every episode, and she's seeing it too. At least a couple instances are almost certainly the result of grooming by men in positions of power instead of the fucked up trend of light novel sister-complex wish-fulfillment..

Anthy has shown no signs of agency whatsoever. She's routinely talked about as an object, like, right next to her. And thus far, there's been no explanation for why she's just fine with all this? It's probably because incest, isn't it?

Utena's a top-tier character, but most everyone else in the cast is so irredeemably fucked up and cruel that I'm just waiting for Utena to have her dark past revealed where she set fire to an orphange for recently orphaned puppies.

Wakaba seems super nice. I'm torn on her professions of love for Utena being a jokey friend thing or being a series of the world's most heartbreaking confessions. I think she might be one of the shadow narrators.

Poor Jury... I figure that she gave Utena a sword to win Anthy back (ew gross) because even if she can't get her own miracle, maybe she can help with Utena's.

Miki's interesting in that he seems to be a genuinely good person just twisted by Touga and probably Kozune. Because again. Just piles of incest for so reason.
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  #18285  
Old 10-22-2018, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by LancerECNM View Post
Anthy has shown no signs of agency whatsoever. She's routinely talked about as an object, like, right next to her. And thus far, there's been no explanation for why she's just fine with all this? It's probably because incest, isn't it?

Utena's a top-tier character, but most everyone else in the cast is so irredeemably fucked up and cruel that I'm just waiting for Utena to have her dark past revealed where she set fire to an orphange for recently orphaned puppies.
Is she though? Sure, she at least treats Anthy like a person, but what is more cruel; the person who actively hates and denies you for who/what you are (someone with personal access to Touga), or the person who acknowledges your existence yet doesn't see you beyond that 'personhood'? Sure, the other duelists just see Anthy as a token used to get Touga's attention, but for all of Utena's fighting for Anthy as a 'person' she seems unwilling or unable to actually understand who this person named Anthy is.
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  #18286  
Old 10-22-2018, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by LancerECNM View Post
Anthy has shown no signs of agency whatsoever. She's routinely talked about as an object, like, right next to her. And thus far, there's been no explanation for why she's just fine with all this? It's probably because incest, isn't it?
I am curious as to whether you've posed this question with regards to literally any other princess or princess-archetype because the whole point of a society that locks you into a princess-archetype (and EVERYONE considers Anthy a princess/object) is that it violently disincentivizes you, the princess, from ever taking action on your own behalf. Such action is treated, and internalized, as shameful and is punished by literally everyone else.
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  #18287  
Old 10-22-2018, 03:23 PM
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Is she though? Sure, she at least treats Anthy like a person, but what is more cruel; the person who actively hates and denies you for who/what you are (someone with personal access to Touga), or the person who acknowledges your existence yet doesn't see you beyond that 'personhood'? Sure, the other duelists just see Anthy as a token used to get Touga's attention, but for all of Utena's fighting for Anthy as a 'person' she seems unwilling or unable to actually understand who this person named Anthy is.
Oh, I thought I specified, but I guess I must have edited the sentence out: it's still pretty fucked up that Utena treats Anthy as an object, too. A person-shaped object, but an object all the same. And though Utena's theoretical end for Anthy is good (be autonomous, have friends), her means is just kind of just using Anthy to live out her hero fantasy. Even when Wakaba snaps Utena back to reality after losing Anthy, Utena says she's going to take herself back but she's really thinking of Anthy the whole time. I don't know if that's "we can't get away with actually saying Utena loves her," Utena not being honest with herself, or Utena using Anthy as a damsel in distress to fulfill her self-image. So I'm kind of grading on a curve in this case.

We get so little Anthy-as-a-person time, that I don't really know what kind of person Anthy is or what her relationship with Utena is like? I don't know if this is a failing of the adaptation from manga or what. I mean, let me list the things I know about the real Anthy: likes Utena enough that she day dreams of her when abandoned by Touga, and she counts as one of the victims of the trigger warning stuff from my last post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylie View Post
I am curious as to whether you've posed this question with regards to literally any other princess or princess-archetype
I can't say that I have, nor have I looked at it in that context. To be real for a second: I had a big list of princesses I knew about??? or something??? but on closer inspection, it felt too much like I was either trying to defend or prove myself, and I don't super like what either of those instincts say about me. That list was pretty much just "yeah, the thing you said is true."

Last edited by LancerECNM; 10-22-2018 at 03:52 PM.
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  #18288  
Old 10-22-2018, 03:31 PM
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Utena is extremely a slow burn series. If you are looking at season 1 and going ďthis is fucked up!Ē...

1) Yes! It is!

2) Itís only a little bit more explicitly fucked up than tons of other stories in which the girl is a prize to be won.

3) There are three seasons for a reason.
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  #18289  
Old 10-22-2018, 03:33 PM
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It's not a challenge or an insult at all - I think we're so very accustomed to romanticizing princesses and fairy tales that when we run into Utena, which is still very definitely a princessy fairy tale, it's genuinely jarring. And that's a good thing! All the princes are awful. All the relationships are power-focused, one-sided, and revolve around exploitation.

As such, it's always kind of interesting to me when people run headlong into this kind of displeasure with Utena.

It's absolutely reasonable, and I think one of the virtues of Utena (gayness aside) is that it is so deeply surreal and fucked up and antagonistic that we're constantly asking why everything is so wrong and bad. And, since we're already in that frame of mind, we examine things like princesses and storybook relationships with that same critical eye.

I super hated Utena when it came out because it was an incredibly uncomfortable version of the sort of story I loved, and now I love it for exactly that reason.
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  #18290  
Old 10-22-2018, 03:46 PM
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Part of my WHOA reaction to Utena was not... ever having heard of those elements. Like, I've never seen all of Evangelion (mostly because I think it's really boring and RahXephon's right there), but I know exactly the kinds of ways its fucked up from cultural osmosis. I'm someone who doesn't mind spoilers, and think they can actually improve and deepen an experience since I know what to be looking for going in, so it's not like I'm avoiding the stuff. And I think that's probably because Evangelion is a show coded for male audiences, and Utena isn't.

It's kind of related to how I know there statistically has to be a ton of cool shit out there intended for demographics that aren't me specifically (cishet white male), but I've got decades of experience sifting through me-aimed-stuff, and like... none sifting through not-me-aimed-stuff. Most of the time I find stuff like this, it's through tracing back influences. In this case, Ali Acampora's character from COUNTER/weight, Aria Joie, whose starting point is "Utena as a cyberpunk k-pop star with a not-Zaku-II."

Last edited by LancerECNM; 10-22-2018 at 03:58 PM. Reason: The curse of overthinking everything you type and also being super frustrated with your errors is editing every post like fifteen times.
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  #18291  
Old 10-22-2018, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by LancerECNM View Post
I don't really know what kind of person Anthy is or what her relationship with Utena is like? I don't know if this is a failing of the adaptation from manga or what
Utena is an animated adaptation that takes on a life of its own, so honestly you can more or less just forget that the comic source material exists in terms of approaching the cartoon.
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  #18292  
Old 10-22-2018, 04:18 PM
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i don't usually like... live post stuff i'm doing but

episode 16
cowbell
i just
i can't
i just can't
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  #18293  
Old 10-22-2018, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by estragon View Post
Utena is an animated adaptation that takes on a life of its own, so honestly you can more or less just forget that the comic source material exists in terms of approaching the cartoon.
Honestly youíre better off doing so
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  #18294  
Old 10-22-2018, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by LancerECNM View Post
i don't usually like... live post stuff i'm doing but

episode 16
cowbell
i just
i can't
i just can't
do you have a problem with nanami
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  #18295  
Old 10-22-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by LancerECNM View Post
Like, I've never seen all of Evangelion (mostly because I think it's really boring and RahXephon's right there), but I know exactly the kinds of ways its fucked up from cultural osmosis.
Side note, but the most fucked up part of Evangelion will always be the fact that the larger fanbase of the show saw a thing about abused children with several layers of mental illnesses on top and thought to themselves in a unison chorus, "I want to have sex with that".
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  #18296  
Old 10-22-2018, 04:45 PM
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do you have a problem with nanami
well
she did drown that cat
but she's honestly one of my favorite characters
she gets the best episodes
i think elephants are here to fuck up nanami's day specifically is my favorite episode so far
it's just the cowbell was so over the top I had to stop eating several times so I could laugh my ass off
it's not very subtle but she hurt an animal, so animals in her life exist to hurt her is definitely a theme

Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
Side note, but the most fucked up part of Evangelion will always be the fact that the larger fanbase of the show saw a thing about abused children with several layers of mental illnesses on top and thought to themselves in a unison chorus, "I want to have sex with that".
amen
isn't one of the points of Evangelion "yo if these tropes you like were applied to a real human being, they'd have serious issues and need help?"
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  #18297  
Old 10-22-2018, 04:49 PM
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she gets the best episodes
yes, good

i'm glad you agree
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  #18298  
Old 10-22-2018, 05:31 PM
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Utena is an animated adaptation that takes on a life of its own, so honestly you can more or less just forget that the comic source material exists in terms of approaching the cartoon.
Is there a better/worse dichotomy between the anime and manga? I never hear anyone talk about the manga, really
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  #18299  
Old 10-22-2018, 05:34 PM
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The anime has a thesis, is deeply subversive, and highlights the surreal.

The manga is a nice long shoujo yawn.
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  #18300  
Old 10-22-2018, 06:09 PM
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Viz's recent Utena hardcover box set is one of the best-looking and feeling manga releases I've ever beheld. Saito's artwork is gorgeous, and I also enjoy all the ways in which the work differs (even if comparatively the anime is favoured), like Utena's aunt being a character for a bit in the manga.
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