The Return of Talking Time

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Old 02-13-2019, 09:06 AM
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Zaidyer Zaidyer is offline
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Default Talking Time Does DOOM


Hey! Let's make a DOOM wad!

It's been forever since we've made any games around here. We've done Mario, we've done RPGs... Why don't we make the leap into 2.5d by making our own episode for the original DOOM engine?

Come on, it'll be easy! I have no idea what I'm doing and I already made this thing:

DOOM 1 and 2 are so old and so popular that they still have well-maintained source ports, editing tools and tutorials. You don't have to look far to find out how to make pretty much anything for them. And the fun part is that there's really no wrong way to make a level. Much of DOOM's flavor comes from the fact that most of its levels only kind of resemble what they're supposed to be, like a fever dream where the object is to shoot lots of demons and make it to the exit.

The three most popular editors that are still being regularly maintained are
Doom Builder X, a continuation of the incredibly popular and easy to use Doom Builder 2. Doom Builder 2 is a modern level editor that's easy to pick up and has tons of tutorials, and it works for pretty much every source port and level format you can think of. It's probably worth noting that John Romero used Doom Builder 2 to create SIGIL.
GZDoom Builder Bugfix, which is a fork of DB2 that does everything the original does and lets you do all the cool advanced 3d stuff available in the GZDoom source port more effectively. Like, real 3d models and modern-style light sources. Also has a more "pro" interface in my estimation.
SLADE 3, which not only can edit levels, but also everything else. Different interface than Doom Builder. Has a Mac version.

So... where do we go with this, then? Hell if I know! I'm thinking maybe we could set our sights on a compilation of levels that amounts to one episode. (Everybody does at least one singleplayer level and that's it!) Anything beyond that would depend on what we've got time to do. I think it would be fun to redecorate Doom Guy's face in the style of Clash at Demonhead, for instance.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:57 AM
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Falselogic Falselogic is offline
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This could be neat. Though the last time I tried (decades ago) I couldn't figure out to the level editor thingy...
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Old 02-13-2019, 10:02 AM
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Lilfut Lilfut is offline
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I'm absolutely in. My level will use Chex Quest assets and there will be an Outdoor Area With Distant Mancubus
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:08 PM
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think this idea was brought up before, as back then, I'm up for it now too...

Gotta get SLADE running
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:17 PM
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muteKi muteKi is offline
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Finally, Sonic's Schoolhouse 2: Recesspool will be a reality
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:38 PM
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I guess the first thing that would need to be decided is what features of source ports will be fine to use. Like, if one person designs a level with jumping in mind, but another person doesn't, then that's a inconsistent-water-rules-in-Mario type problem.

Personally, I feel like designing for classic gameplay mechanics (so no jump, no crouch) would be the easiest thing, with all the cool stuff that GZDoom can do with slopes and lighting and shit being allowed.
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:27 PM
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I say no tricks; just traps~
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Old 02-13-2019, 03:36 PM
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I'm interested. I still got my text file sketch from 3 years ago when we were almost about to do this.

How hard is it to have a map with lots of individual sectors where the floor raises up to a specified height in response to a switch? I was reading up on Doom triggers (linedef types), and it seems like you don't get to actually set a "height" parameter, all the triggers are keyed off the heights of adjacent floors or ceilings. So you have to make dummy sectors to represent the parameter I guess?

Let's say you want a simple pedestal to rise to a desired height in response to a switch. What do you do if it is in the middle of a room? If it was against the wall then you could hide a very thin dummy sector inside the wall. Can you create "disjointed" sectors? Like, can I make two rooms that aren't actually connected be the same sector? Then the pedestal sector could have an unconnected piece hanging out inside a solid wall or out of bounds, and I could make a dummy sector adjacent to that piece without it being visible to the player.
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Old 02-15-2019, 09:31 AM
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Zaidyer Zaidyer is offline
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I think our rules for gameplay ought to be
no jumping,
no crouching,
don't make the player aim vertically but don't disable it either.

We can wait until Episode 2 for those features, since they open up a lot of intricate design options and we really ought to be experienced in the fundamentals first.

I would also add
  • Make your level beatable from pistol start
  • Don't lock progress behind an item or weapon that's possible to use up before unlocking
  • Include spawning points for up to eight players (co-op mode)
  • Don't leave places where the player can get trapped with no escape and no way to die
  • Monster placement should account for each and every difficulty setting up to "Ultra Violence"
  • Balance your level's weapons and powerups to give players on "Ultra Violence" a fighting chance

Last edited by Zaidyer; 02-15-2019 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 02-15-2019, 09:58 AM
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Mightyblue Mightyblue is offline
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That last bit is impossible? Nightmare has constant enemy spawns in vanilla DOOM implementations, most maps only balance around Ultra-Violence if that (a notable tendency in a lot of fan-pack maps is a dearth of medkits on the map). I'd guess I would also require that you don't short maps on health either.
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shoot your .wad

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