The Return of Talking Time

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  #121  
Old 01-13-2018, 06:36 AM
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The refights also work as an empowering moment since you can pretty easily kill four dudes in a row who individually gave you trouble before. And it was also a call back to the four fiends and refights in the first game on NES in the first game on SNES.
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  #122  
Old 01-13-2018, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Solitayre View Post
This version is throwing out a lot of iconic moments. Tellah's death, Palom and Porom's sacrifice, Cecil isn't even a paladin yet! Do any of those things happen? (Edit: Don't actually answer this I guess)

I wouldn't trade those for four more fiends.
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Removing the evil wall for an ice fiend was a bad call. I hope they at least put it somewhere else
Presumably this ROM hack is for people who have already played the original game and want something completely different. They don't need to keep the iconic moments.
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  #123  
Old 01-13-2018, 01:09 PM
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Updates delayed on account of the Crawl tournament. I'll pick things up again tomorrow.
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  #124  
Old 01-15-2018, 06:02 PM
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DING DONG DING DONG

IT'S MOTHERFUCKING TOMORROW TURTLE, WHERE IS MY GODDAMNED UPDATE?
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  #125  
Old 01-15-2018, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Gaer View Post
DING DONG DING DONG

IT'S MOTHERFUCKING TOMORROW TURTLE, WHERE IS MY GODDAMNED UPDATE?
well you see, i went to the feymarch, which has weird tomorrows

wait, that's the wrong crystal

heck

gotta throw everything out and start over
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  #126  
Old 01-16-2018, 04:10 AM
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Default part 1/2

Chapter 9: What Are The Tenets Of Bahamut's Faith, Anyway?

Welcome back! Today, we're going to the Shrine of Bahamut to go fight the Fiend of Holy check on the Holy crystal. Off we go!

...wait.

Bahamut's on the moon.


This is my favorite joke in the entire hack, and I have no idea why.

Of course, we just need his shrine (or lagoon, I guess), which is right here!

Monsters here are the same as in the original game's Sylph Cave; i.e., incredibly hellish, running is a good option. No, really, no part of these fights are fun, find somewhere else to grind.

Buried in this dungeon, we find the Rune Bow, which would be great for Rosa if I remembered to buy arrows (I didn't).

Of course, you can't run from everything...



...like this repeated trap chest. And for our trouble...



We get the Mage Masher for Edge or Palom. I'm noticing a theme here...



In this out-of-the-way corner, we get the Fairy Rod for Palom, thankfully without a fight. It's a pretty good upgrade, as it boosts WIS more than the elemental rods we've had so far.

Many chests contain Remedies; chances are you'll be using them almost out of the box, with the Morbols wandering around and their Breath attack.



And then we come to this room. This room is annoying as heck. Chances are most of you remember it from the base game, but if not...




Every single one is a trapped chest.

Each of the top three contains six Ghosts; they aren't *so* bad, as a pair of Tnado spells from Edge and Palom will wipe out the entire group. They like to spam Fire2, so if Cecil has the Ice Armor, he should take it off; even no armor is better. You get an Elixir from each fight.

The bottom three chests each have different guards and prizes. From left to right:
  • Two DarkTrees and two Morbols; Fuma Shurikens will take out the Morbols quickly enough, and the DarkTrees burn nicely. Reward is a single Yagyu Shuriken... I guess that's nice, as an emergency ~4000 damage.
  • Astos A Wizard, same as in the Ice Mines. The Rune Bow and Mage Masher are already paying off; Edge hits for ~3500 with a physical attack, and Rosa for nearly 2000. The reward is the Avenger, a two-handed dark blade for Cecil which inflicts Auto-Berserk and gives +10 to STR, AGI, and VIT. It will never leave his hands.
  • Two Centpedes, which like to counter attacks with Quake. With an Angel Feather, these guys are easy. Reward is a Mystic Hammer, which you could actually make an argument for on Porom, as it gives 15 WIS and WIL. (It's also an anti-mage weapon, like the Rune Bow and Mage Masher...)

The only exit to this room spits you outside onto the Underworld, so you'll have to go back in to get to where we're going.
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  #127  
Old 01-16-2018, 04:12 AM
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Default part 2/2



Which is here! The save point is great because Angel Feathers are annoying to use (they can only be used in battle) so if you're like me, you just tanked the acidic floor. Let's talk to those NPCs...



A prophet sent by Bahamut...? Let's see if we can get an audience; he seems to be interested in the Holy crystal too, anyway.



He looks a little...familiar. Let's talk to the mages bowing to him first.


All NPCs of the same sprite say the same thing.

Helpful. Well, no sense putting it off. Let's go say hello.


I didn't even have to waste the Tent...

Quote:
Prophet: Now stand aside, I
must deliver this crystal
to my master Golb... er...
I mean, Bahamut...

Cecil: You're no prophet!

Prophet: I am the Fiend of
Holy, Draghinazzo! Now,
out of my way, or become
the next sacrifice!


First, pet peeve. Where's the second g in his name? It's supposed to be Draghignazzo! Grumble grumble!

Anyway, right. Battle! Draghignazzo opens with Holy, which will probably--



--which will absolutely kill someone. From there, he'll close his cape and cast Blink (unlike Rubicant, his cape is only for show), then do two back-to-back Fights.

Now, if you scroll up a bit, you'll see where Cecil got a little thing called the Avenger. Which is 1) powerful and 2) Dark element. Draghignazzo is weak to Dark. How weak?



Yeah. You can speed things up further with Palom using Bio (which is Dark element) (which I don't have) and Edge throwing Fuma Shurikens.

Now, a little bit of a breakdown. Draghignazzo has 16000 HP. When he is reduced to 4000 HP or less, he spends his turns using Wht.Wind, which essentially doubles his current HP.

The turn after his double-Fight (which was his third action), he tried to Wht.Wind.



Emphasis on 'tried'.



And who says darkness can't defeat true evil? Oh, right... nobody has said that. We never did that part. Regardless, he drops the Holy crystal, and we continue on our merry way.

For those who are wondering, the chests there contain White and Black Robes. Technically, anyone who can use the requisite color of magic can wear them, so I could stick Cecil in the Black Robe if I wanted. I'm not going to, but it's technically an option, if I decide I need the Air or Holy resist it confers (I did about ten seconds ago...). They also give 15 of the relevant stat; the twins will love these upgrades to their... Cloth Robes. Whoops.

Next time, the Feymarch and the Shadow crystal! Please look forward to it!
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  #128  
Old 01-16-2018, 06:59 AM
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These new bosses are pretty weak.
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  #129  
Old 01-16-2018, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post

I hate this.
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  #130  
Old 01-16-2018, 07:20 AM
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"Fiend of Holy"?

This whole scenario is very contrived.
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  #131  
Old 01-16-2018, 07:29 AM
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I was guessing the new fiends would be other elemental things since Water -> Ice, and I was trying to figure out what the Scarmiglione swap would be. Dirt? Ground? Sand?

Now I see that's it based on the spell list I'm looking forward to Farfarello the Fiend of Quake.
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  #132  
Old 01-16-2018, 07:53 AM
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Fiend of NUKE!
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  #133  
Old 01-16-2018, 07:54 AM
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lmao this FIEND is LIT
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  #134  
Old 01-16-2018, 07:58 AM
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I always wondered how a boss that used mostly white magic would work.

Apparently, not very well!
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  #135  
Old 01-16-2018, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Loki View Post
I love this.
Loki, why do you hate very good goofs?
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  #136  
Old 01-16-2018, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitayre View Post
I always wondered how a boss that used mostly white magic would work.

Apparently, not very well!
They could have given that guy some teeth buy letting it cast cure and some other good white magic against you. But a single holy and white wind won't cut it.

Though really the base game Ashura does the white mage boss thing way better already.
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  #137  
Old 01-16-2018, 08:33 AM
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Mostly these Fiends just don't seem interesting.

In the original game, Milon jumps Team Cecil with a gang of enemies immune to Cecil's dark sword so he's at a disadvantage, and then jumps you again form behind after you think he's dead. Kainazzo killed the King of Baron requires black magic to beat when you have two black mages in your party. Valvalis requires Kain's jump to beat and Rosa's white magic to stop her petrification attacks right when they both just returned to the party. Edge has a grudge against Rubicant and learns a Water spell right when you're about to throw down with him, even if it might not technically be your best move against him.

What's going on with these new fiends? Not much. We don't know any of these people. At least in the Feymarch Rydia might be involved somehow?
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  #138  
Old 01-16-2018, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
For the life of me I can't remember seeing this dragon sprite in FF4. Maybe it was only in Hard Type and it was dummied out of the SNES version?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
Where's the second g in his name? It's supposed to be Draghignazzo! Grumble grumble!
Maybe the ROM hackers were watching Italian news, heard a lot about Mario Draghi, and figured one G was enough.

Last edited by Vega; 01-16-2018 at 04:21 PM.
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  #139  
Old 01-16-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
For the life of me I can't remember seeing this dragon sprite in FF4. Maybe it was only in Hard Type and it was dummied out of the SNES version?
I'm pretty sure I've seen it during one of the trips to Bab-il? IIRC, it's usually yellow with green splotches.
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  #140  
Old 01-16-2018, 12:56 PM
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While I'm catching back up to speed on this thread, let me add to the Cid conversation that Cid does have daughter in the original game (she is inside his house). In addition to what McClain said about Rosa having a mom elsewhere in Baron, it seems like this might be a case of us having misplaced memories.

BTW, I don't think Rosa ever calls Cid grandpa or anything in the original though (as a term of endearment or not), am I right?


Finally, Legends of Localization does showcase a cute bit about Rydia calling Cid "ojichan" right before he sacrifices himself though.

Quote:
After Cid decides to sacrifice himself, Rydia responds in Japanese by saying ojīchan ("old man, grandpa"). To this, he replies, “At least call me ojichan ("middle-aged man, uncle")!”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
I think Rosa calling Cid grandpa is a reference to another RPG in which that happens.
Good catch!

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  #141  
Old 01-16-2018, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JBear View Post
I'm pretty sure I've seen it during one of the trips to Bab-il? IIRC, it's usually yellow with green splotches.
There's a palette swapped version (Yellow D.) that's summoned by trap doors some % of the time (the rest of the time they summon the green manticore things). You have to get them to low HP without killing them, though, so if your bouncing there death magic you won't see it ever.

I believe, but am not certain, that the one in Bab-il is the Green D, and only appears if you hatch the eggs. I can't recall which trip has them.
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  #142  
Old 01-16-2018, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitayre View Post
I always wondered how a boss that used mostly white magic would work.

Apparently, not very well!
If I had to do a Big Scary Boss That Uses Exclusively White Magic script I would probably start with "Asura" and add "but it casts Blink before Reflect" and work my way up from there.

At the very least, cast Mini on Cecil and Edge and try to drop Hold or Silence on Palom, Porom, and Rosa.

Or have it set up some status ailments or Safe/Shell/Regen or something and then drop a doublecast Bravery/Berserk and just start thrashing the party while they try to pierce its defensive setup. (It's a game hack, you can retrofit Bravery onto the spell list if you want.) I dunno, does Dispel work in this version?

Like there are a lot of boss setups that are a shitton more interesting than "Casts Holy". Which I guess is why these fiends seem kind of flat? They turn "surprise back attack, also I am undead now" "gathering the water!/hides in its shell!" "Must stop her spin! Kain! Jump!" and "shifting weaknesses based on cloak being open or closed" and turns them into just... regular non-gimmick brawls.
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  #143  
Old 01-16-2018, 04:11 PM
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Yellow D.s can also be found in the Underworld near the Sylph Cave, around (and including) the infamous three-tile peninsula.

EDIT: One, Dispel does work.

Two, Draghignazzo does do some of these things, to be fair. The problem is, he never got to them because he got murdered.

His full AI script is Holy -> Close Cape + Blink -> Fight + Fight -> Shell -> Protect -> Open Cape + Comet -> Fight -> GOTO 10

EDIT2: Anyway if you want a fiend that has no qualms about murdering me, stay tuned. There are three places in the game where I'm actually concerned about a game over, and we're coming up on the first.
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  #144  
Old 01-16-2018, 05:58 PM
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I am interested in those bits since it seems like you know FFIV well enough to never be threatened, ever. Looking forward to it!
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  #145  
Old 01-16-2018, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogri View Post
"Fiend of Holy"?
Would you prefer Fiend of FADE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Fiend of Quake.
I think you meant QAKE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McClain View Post
Fiend of NUKE!
So does this mean Astos was the Fiend of RUB?

Last edited by Torzelbaum; 01-16-2018 at 08:24 PM. Reason: be consistent!
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  #146  
Old 01-16-2018, 09:46 PM
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...Fiend of Cake?
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  #147  
Old 01-17-2018, 12:50 AM
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Default part 1/2

Chapter 10: Hubris Is Smite-Targeted

Welcome back! Today, we'll be heading to the Feymarch, as they apparently have a Shadow crystal. Surely it'll be fine in Leviathan's hands, but I guess Cecil wants to make sure.



The Feymarch is generally the same as usual. However, a few extra hidden paths in the walls were added; aside from those two steps there, it's possible to avoid every lava tile from here to town. A few monsters here will even drop Angel Feathers relatively commonly.

Speaking of monsters, they're the same as they've always been. A single Arachne is basically free EXP, as all they do is cast Quake, and you have access to Float. Conjurers can be annoying, but also abused to get lots of EXP very quickly (and if not, you have a bevy of weapons from Bahamut's Lagoon that will murder them in one shot). Devils are still evil and should be run from.

In the very last chest before town...



It's trapped, guarded by five Warriors! They hit pretty hard, but otherwise are unremarkable. Weak to Holy, which you probably have quite a few arrows for Rosa, not to mention the Ashura Katana.



The rewards are well worth it, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
The reward is the Avenger, a two-handed dark blade for Cecil which inflicts Auto-Berserk and gives +10 to STR, AGI, and VIT. It will never leave his hands.
The Blood Sword is a lot better in UC than in the base game. Its accuracy isn't terrible, for one, and it has a good base attack. It's a dark blade, too, so you can even use Dark Wave (you do not gain HP when using Dark Wave with the Blood Sword).

That said, I don't give it to him right now. That would be a terrible idea.

Anyway, the next floor is the first floor where the summons live. None of them say anything that's really 'new'...but this is interesting.



Is Rydia here?



She is!

Quote:
Cecil: Are you ok?
What happened?

Rydia: The sylphs saved me
from falling and carried
me here...

Rydia: I'll stay here for
a while. I'll be ok.
Good to know she's alright, at least! Obviously she doesn't join us, we have a full party.

We have a new town, so new shops! Weapon shop has Fairy Rod, Silence Staff, the Kikuichi Katana (which has no element but is stronger), Rune Bow, Dark Arrows, and more Fuma Shuriken. I pick up one of the katanas, since elements will generally be useful. The armor shop, meanwhile, has the Aegis Shield, Diamond Ring/Helm/Armor, Judo Clothes, and Zeus Gauntlet. The shield gives Dark protection, so I snatch that thing up like it's going out of style. Diamond gear, as usual, protects against Bolt, so I go ahead and grab it. Rosa is still wearing a Cloth Robe, so she gets Judo Clothes, and I like Cecil's Power Glove over the Zeus Gauntlets.

Now to go visit the King and Queen of the Feymarch, talk to them about the Shadow crystal.



Just gonna...save first, for no reason.



Here we are. Sure enough, there's the crystal, perfectly safe. Let's talk to the Queen first.



I suppose if you're going to base all your decisions on who's a good or bad person on the opinions of a five year old, Rydia's not the worst choice.



Quote:
Cecil: My name is Cecil.
A man named Golbez is
attempting to collect the
crystals for evil ends.

My companions and I are
trying to keep them from
them.

Leviathan: I see. Our
Shadow crystal helps kee
us hidden, but you man
borrow it to keep it away

from Golbez as long as
you promise to return it
when the threat abates.
Wait. The Shadow crystal keeps the entire town hidden? Why can't we just leave the crystals here? Not to mention that, keep in mind, Golbez's strongest pet crumples to a bit of mist, from one of the summoned creatures here!

Ugh. Anyway.



We're gonna take the crystal, I guess. I wonder if Golbez would've had far better luck if, instead of bombing castles or whatnot, he just calmly walked up to each nation's head and asked for it.
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  #148  
Old 01-17-2018, 12:52 AM
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Default part 2/2

As we leave...



Quote:
Edge: Who's there?




It's Ciriatto, Fiend of Shadow! Like with Scarmiglione before him, if you kill all of the Reapers, he'll start spamming Bio. Interestingly, while we don't have any method of inflicting it, the Reapers can be petrified.

The Reapers will just physically attack, and Ciriatto will occasionally order them all to use RedFeast. Ciriatto also counters attacks with Stop. Once you've trimmed his army down to one, he's easy.

Interestingly, Ciriatto isn't currently undead or anything, so you can use Cecil's Blood Sword on him easily.



And he goes down without much issue.

Now, I know there's a save point and an inn right outside, but...



I'm gonna heal everyone up anyway. Also, my finger slipped and hit the Change option. It'll probably be fine.

On our way out...





Oh no! We've been back attacked! Okay, okay, it'll be fine, everyone's at full--





--oh. Yes, Ciriatto opens up this rematch by setting everybody's HP to critical.



His next attack, DarkHoly, will murder whoever it hits, no questions asked. Even Cecil, who resists Dark, is only taking half that, which is still more than twice his HP.



Next, he calcifies someone, which is the least threatening thing he does.



Then there's a full-party Bio; hope you managed to heal between Angel Song and this!



Then we have Death, which luckily didn't hit whoever he was targeting here.



And finally, he ends with Dark Wave. (Actually he ends with Fight, but I'm not screencapping that.) I'm pretty sure this doesn't actually hurt him like it does Cecil.

Also, he counters all Fight commands with a Fight of his own.

This fight can and will kill you if you aren't prepared. I'm lucky in that Porom learned Cure3 before I got here. Had she not, Bio would be very close to a wipe all on its own; I'm not actually sure how I would've handled it. But with that, you can deal with each attack as it comes (I recommend having Rosa cast Slow, to give you more time). He only has 14000 HP, so before too long...



Ciriatto bites it, for real this time.



With that, we're done here.

Next time, we'll gather all four underworld crystals in one place! What could possibly go wrong? Please look forward to it!
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  #149  
Old 01-17-2018, 03:58 AM
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And then we fight Golbez's palette swap, Bolgez!
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  #150  
Old 01-17-2018, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
Now, I know there's a save point and an inn right outside, but...

I'm gonna heal everyone up anyway. Also, my finger slipped and hit the Change option. It'll probably be fine.
wow, this random series of button presses really ended up working out for you
that fight looks brutal, jeez
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