The Return of Talking Time

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  #31  
Old 06-08-2017, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Kishi View Post
I've never thought to use the Insta-Shield to hit Big Arm through its spikes like that. Then again, I haven't fought Big Arm much in general since its role got reduced in S3&K.
My love for using the Insta-Shield to do dumb risky shit has existed since the moment my parents gave me Sonic for my 9th birthday. It's not a total game-changer like the Spindash was, but it's an AWESOME addition to Sonic's Moveset. I can't remember if it was a thing in the Sonic Mania Demo I played at PAX east, but I really hope it made it into the game.
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Used to hate the boss because it hitting Sonic out of the super form always drove me nuts. That doesn't happen in this version.
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I didn't like it, but it's probably fair for final bosses to defend themselves against game-breaking super forms. Sonic 2 gets around it by not giving you enough rings to get there, S3&K accounts for it by requiring a super form to even show up, and Big Arm simply dunks you.
I love that big arm can knock the Super out of Super Sonic, and I honestly wish the romhackers had kept it in here. I don't even care if he's not the "Final" boss anymore. Big Arm is awesome and it's important that he's able to go "Nah FUCK your super form".
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Thank you for this wonderful gif present. I will cherish it for all of time.

Last edited by BEAT; 06-08-2017 at 07:21 AM.
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  #32  
Old 06-09-2017, 08:56 AM
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SONIC 3 COMPLETE 09

SANDOPOLIS ZONE

INDIANA JONESING
FanboyMaster - MarsDragon - MuteKi


Why are there Ghosts in this pyramid everybody knows pyramids are full of mummies not ghosts this is bullshit.

NOTES
  • ACT 1 IS A PRETTY STANDARD SONIC LEVEL. You run around in a big outdoors area with spikes and springs and stuff. This is to make sure your expectations are firmly in place so that act 2 can destroy them.
  • HEAT BLUR EFFECT! Look closely during Act 1, and you'll notice a tiny little shimmer effect slowly moving up all the ground and walls! There is absolutely no NEED for this to be in the game, it's just there to drive home the idea that deserts are really warm! Did any other 16 bit games make a point to do this?! This game is so fucking cool you guys.
  • THE ACT 1 BOSS IS WEIRD. Instead of the customary Robotnik Robot, we're treated to a giant pyramid that takes forever to rise out of the ground before releasing a very non-robotic, stone-golem-looking puzzle boss. The trick to this one is that hitting him won't actually hurt him, it'll just knock him backwards, and to kill him you gotta make him fall into the pit of quicksand on the far left. I accomplish this by jumping into him a bunch of times, but just jumping around in the quicksand until he idiotically jumps in after you is also a valid strategy.
  • ACT 2 THO. Hands down the weirdest level in all of Genesis Sonic. It's huge and it looks cool and it abuses the hell out of vertical looping, but it also introduces a completely new mechanic in the form of Timed Gates. Instead of being able to continually move onwards, your progress will be continually stopped by big stone walls that can only be opened by slowly pushing their respective switches from right to left, then making it back to the gate before it slowly closes. This WOULD have been a terrible addition to the game that serves no purpose other than to slow everything down if not for this level's other big new idea…
  • LIGHTSWITCHES AND THE GHOSTS THAT HATE THEM. Yeah, turns out this ancient tomb for a long dead ruler is crazy haunted by adorable bedsheet ghosts. Scattered around the level are switches that you can use to turn the light up to max brightness. After the lights being on for a little bit, a little ghost will appear at the top of the screen, just to sort of scope things out. When it gets dimmer, he'll grow a little bigger and get joined by one of his friends. When it gets completely dark, a third will show up, they'll all grow cool horns and start actively trying to kill you. Thus the level is all about making sure you never spend too long fucking around with the gates, before you can make it to a lightswitch, lest your new undead friends start geting antsy.
  • OH ALSO THERE'S ROOMS THAT FILL WITH SAND THAT WILL CRUSH YOU. In some cases you gotta activate the crushing sand, hurry ahead of it to open a timed gate while being sure to hit enough lightswitches to keep the lost souls at bay. This is a cool game, you guys.
  • LOLDEAD 2X COMBO Around 13:50, I get crushed in the dumbest way imaginable. Then exactly one minute later, I get crushed in the exact same dumbest way imaginable.
  • THE BOSS IS PRETTY RAD. I like how Robotnik covered his big spiky arms robot in old bricks, just to fit in with the rest of the decor. That's attention to detail.
MarsDragon: Oh wow, that's a fuckin' horny tree. That's weird.
BEAT: Oh, did you find it?
MarsDragon: Also it's not beer! It's fuckin cider BEAT! It's made from apples!
BEAT: Look, it came in a bottle and it got me drunk. What do you fucking want from me?

Last edited by BEAT; 06-09-2017 at 11:38 AM.
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  #33  
Old 06-09-2017, 12:52 PM
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An aside about Mushroom Valley I cannot recall if I actually mention in conversation or not: the stage name is long enough that during the Act 2 transition (where the title drops in over the stage art) the sprite limit kicks in and things get a touch flickery. And you can see the wood pillars from the boss arena get cut off from the title in BEAT's video.
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  #34  
Old 06-09-2017, 04:47 PM
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Muteki mentioned Sandopolis is reminiscent of Marble Zone. I can't believe I never made that connection, but I guess the main difference is I like Sandopolis.


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I also like to enable "Sonic 3 Credits music for Hidden Palace" since I think it gives the level a little more distinctive character to do so
Is there historical precedent for that, like a prototype where that music plays in Hidden Palace, or did the ROM hackers just think it would be a cool thing to do?


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An aside about Mushroom Valley I cannot recall if I actually mention in conversation or not: the stage name is long enough that during the Act 2 transition (where the title drops in over the stage art) the sprite limit kicks in and things get a touch flickery. And you can see the wood pillars from the boss arena get cut off from the title in BEAT's video.
I actually prefer the sound of "Mushroom Valley," but that's certainly as good a reason as any to shorten the name.
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  #35  
Old 06-09-2017, 04:52 PM
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Actually I think prototypes of Hidden Palace used the Sky Sanctuary music. There is probably at least one early S&K/S3C prototype where it is actually called 'sky sanctuary' on its card. Since they're practically paired levels, it kinda makes sense. I know I'm a minority on this decision (which is probably one of the reasons it's not an in-game selectable choice) but I like having distinct music for levels since the game up until this point does a pretty good job of making every level's music different.
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  #36  
Old 06-10-2017, 05:27 PM
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Clearly we now know what needs to happen next.

Beat needs to stream Sonic Boom, because suggesting that is what makes me a bastard.
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  #37  
Old 06-13-2017, 09:10 AM
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Default LOL.

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  #38  
Old 06-13-2017, 01:46 PM
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That's what I should have posted when I beat Advance 2 last night
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  #39  
Old 06-14-2017, 08:34 AM
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SONIC 3 COMPLETE 10

LAVA REEF ZONE

LAVA FOR LAVA GODS
FanboyMaster - MarsDragon - MuteKi


FIRE GOOD EVERYBODY LOVES FIRE

NOTES
  • HEY IT'S SONIC AND HE'S UNDERGROUND. Cue everyone talking about Jaleel White, who has suffered more than any actor ever should. I never actually saw Sonic Underground. I understand this was the correct choice.
  • LAVA REEF IS PRETTY TOUGH! The game is at the point where it's no longer fucking around, and since I was never really any good at video games, I get it a lot. In Act 1 you can mitigate a lot of the risk with a fire shield, since most of the stage hazards are either lava or fire. That doesn't really work for Act 2 because...
  • THE CHANGE BETWEEN THE FIRST AND SECOND ACT IS ONE OF THE MOST DRASTIC IN THE GAME. So act one is all fire and lava and more fire and more lava. Then after the miniboss, we actualy get to see the lava cool and harden, driven home by the fact that the only way to proceed onward is to go across a large patch of it. Act 2 takes place in a crystal cave system that, appropriately, switches out fire hazards for things that just deal normal damage. Both levels still look fucking awesome, as do most every level in S3&K.
  • WE ALSO TALK ABOUT RAGGEDY ANNE AND ANDY FOR AWHILE? Look that movie left some fucking scars, okay?
  • I DIE A STUPID NUMBER OF TIMES NEAR THAT ONE SPIKE BUCKET WHEEL THING. The worst of the worst though is at 10:45. Just, fucking embarrassing.
  • KNUCKLES: IS HE STILL A DICK? Well I dunno let's see what he's planning on doing with that boulder- YES.
  • LAVA REEF'S ENDING IS FUCKING AWESOME. So in Act 1, you can catch a few little glimpses of the Death Egg in the wayyy distant background, just sort of peeking through the ceiling. Act 2 you can only see it right at the end, much closer now, right before Knuckles does his dick move with the boulder. But then after the boulder? It's suddenly SUPER CLOSE taking up the entire background! It's huge and it's menacing and then it torches the entire level in a single blast, kicking off an autoscroller boss that can only be described as fucking sick. It's amazing and awesome and I love every moment of it! This fucking game you guys!
MuteKi: 14 hits for this boss! 14 hits!
BEAT: Yeah but YOU don't have to make any of them. But I'm not gonna spoil it.
MuteKi: Well you can't! he's invincible except for his own projectiles!
BEAT: Wow dude I literally just said I'm not gonna spoil it. Thanks, idiot!
FanboyMaster: Wow that was a harsher response than I expected. Like "You complete jackass what are you even doing here".
BEAT: Have you read literally anything I've ever typed on talking time?!
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  #40  
Old 06-14-2017, 01:01 PM
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Jaleel White, who has suffered more than any actor ever should.
I'm sure all of the residuals he has earned over the years are poor compensation for that.
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  #41  
Old 06-14-2017, 01:58 PM
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SONIC 3 COMPLETE 11

HIDDEN PALACE ZONE

ANCESTORS WITH VAGUE MESSAGES
FanboyMaster - MarsDragon - MuteKi


Hey, take a quick look at this cool picture that tells Knuckles the future. He's got it hanging in his kick-ass rumpus room.


"TWO WEIRDOS FIGHT OVER OUR COOL ROCK" BY SOME JERK WHO'S BEEN DEAD FOR CENTURIES

Hey jerk who's been dead for centuries, Yeah uh, did it ever occur to you to maybe indicate which of those weirdos fighting over your cool rock was the good guy and which was the bad guy? I'm only bringing this up because EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED IN THIS GAME IS YOUR FAULT YOU STUPID LONG-DEAD JACKASS.

NOTES
  • WELCOME TO THE ONE AND ONLY PLOT LEVEL. So every other level in the game had the stated goal of providing a good Sonic The Hedgehog experience. This one wants to tell you a story, and it wants to tell it with no dialogue, and four characters who are all 16 bit sprites. Of those characters only one of them has animations for conveying emotions, as the others are either under your control at all times or stuck in an eggmobile. The really crazy thing? Somehow that mess I just described actually works and makes what sounds like the worst idea ever one of the most memorable parts of the whole game.
  • KNUCKLES, LIKE MOST TOTAL DICKS IS A PUSHOVER IN AN ACTUAL FIGHT. I've seen people whine about just how easy this "fight" is, but honestly I kind of like it that way. It kinda drives home just how completely mixed up and out of his depth the guy really is. Also, there's just something RIGHT about effortlessly stomping down a guy who's been a petty asshole to you from point one.
  • I LOVE HOW EXPRESSIVE KNUCKLES IS. Every single one of his animations post fight is just priceless. His HEY PUT MY COOL ROCK BACK flipout. His little sneer before he starts to attack Robotnik in earnest. The way he clings to his COOL ROCK, and gets turned into a COOL SKELETON for his trouble. The way acts all tough like YEAH LOOK AT WHAT I CAN DO only to immediately break the charade and fall to the ground exhausted as soon as he's out of sight. It gets across so much information with so little to work with and omg this game u guys.
  • THE ROOM WITH ALL THE EMERALDS IN IT IS THE ONE THE FLASHING RINGS TRANSPORT YOU TO. Figured I better mention that plot point since I got all the emeralds before I even started. Also They're not actually grey, They just flash their color every other frame and OBS grabbed exactly the wrong ones. Curse you OBS. You mother fucker.
BEAT: All Knuckles had to go on was a little sketch some asshole put on his wall.
FanboyMaster: The problem is that Knuckles is just not a very good art critic.

Last edited by BEAT; 06-15-2017 at 08:53 AM. Reason: GEE I HOPE NOBODY READING THIS LP RESPONDS TO THIS POST WITH A BUNCH OF BEAUTIFULLY ANIMATED GIFS OF KNUCKLE'S EXPRESSIVE LITTLE ANIMATIONS THAT WOULD JUST BE AWFUL.
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  #42  
Old 06-14-2017, 02:18 PM
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2 things:

1. It's funny that in a game where between-act transitions have been developed to be as seamless as possible, the fade to black in act 2 of Lava Reef is actually a loading sequence for a new act! I think we can all forgive this though, because the background change and the sequence itself is so intense that it justifies the whole thing.

2. In prerelease versions of S3C/S&K the Knuckles fight actually let Knuckles hit you out of your super form. Given that the game starts with Knuckles hitting you out of your super form, I kinda wish they'd kept that. He's still an easy boss.
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  #43  
Old 06-15-2017, 10:38 AM
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What Knuckles needs is that boulder.

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  #44  
Old 06-15-2017, 11:57 AM
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SONIC 3 COMPLETE 12

SKY SANCTUARY ZONE

RECYCLED BOSSES
FanboyMaster - MarsDragon - MuteKi


So the Floating island is usually floating in the sky because of Knuckle's cool rock, that's fine. But there's also these other sky ruins not attached to the Floating Island landmass without any cool rocks... just because?

NOTES
  • SKY SANCTUARY IS S3&K'S ONLY REAL SINGLE-ACT LEVEL. Like, technically Hidden Palace and the upcoming LOL NO SPOILERS also both only have one act, sure. But Sky Sanctuary is the only one of the three that's a proper Sonic level. A good one too! So much so that it was picked to represent S3&K in Sonic Generations.
  • MORE PLAYABLE CUTSCENES. So for the first 20-ish seconds of this level, you're stuck on the first platform so that the game can show you the fully-operational Death Egg (now powered by clean renewable Cool Rock energy) rise above the clouds and launch a bunch of little robots. Once it's out of sight, Knuckles will go and activate a bridge for you, so you can get to the rest of the level and start playing the game again. If you stick around to make sure he's not, you know, DYING from that asskicking we gave him (or the electrocution or the thousand foot fall) he'll get all pissed off and and start indignantly pointing us towards the rest of the level. Even in the face of oblivion, Knuckles is still a total dick.
  • "SHIT, IF I MISSED IT I'M GONNA BE UPSET." Ahaha I fucked up showing off the Death Egg rise. Cue a reset edited with a @dril tweet as though Bad Rats Show never ended.
  • IT'S KINDA EASY TO GET TURNED AROUND IN THIS LEVEL. lt's less about going right and more about going up. As such it's kind of easy to get turned around, and at one point I end up falling back down to a teleporter I'd already used. The game pulls this off via clever abuse of vertical looping, which is why the map from the level's Zone 0 page looks so weird.
  • METAL SONIC AND HIS COOL TOYS. So the coolest-looking 16 bit Metal Sonic shows up out of nowhere, and we get to have not 1, not 2, but 3 boss fights! But instead of fighting us as a POWERFUL ROBOT DOPPLEGANGER right from the start, the first two are just him wasting everyone's time with recreations of the bosses from Green Hill and Metropolis. And when he finally decides to fight us for real he's a total pushover who gets beaten senseless is left broken and dying on a piece of rubble as it falls from the edge of earth's atmosphere into the violent seas below. To him I say: serves ya right jackass! You suck and I'm glad you're dead forever and have zero chance of returning in the form of, I dunno, a surprise final boss or something! Loser!
FanboyMaster: "Unlike Sonic I don't chuckle. I'd rather flex my muscles."
BEAT: I was expecting you to say I'd rather flex my knuckles and I'm very upset that you didn't.
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  #45  
Old 06-15-2017, 12:01 PM
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This is also where the game ends if you're playing as Knux.
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  #46  
Old 06-15-2017, 01:57 PM
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Fun fact: Knuckles' Sky Sanctuary is a completely different stage
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  #47  
Old 06-15-2017, 11:37 PM
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Default Knuckles Conveys an Emotion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAT View Post
GEE I HOPE NOBODY READING THIS LP RESPONDS TO THIS POST WITH A BUNCH OF BEAUTIFULLY ANIMATED GIFS OF KNUCKLE'S EXPRESSIVE LITTLE ANIMATIONS THAT WOULD JUST BE AWFUL.






























As you may have noticed, when you're not playing as Knuckles, he uses a different color palette with a pinker shade of red and yellow socks. For some reason, when he's in Hidden Palace, the bright red parts of his shoes (and tongue) also look like brown mustard. For Sonic 3 Complete, the ROM hackers changed this so Knuckles always has the same palette as when he's playable, because of course they did.

Also, I never you could get a reaction out of Knuckles in Sky Sanctuary by ducking next to him. (And before I captured his "exhausted" pose, I never noticed his mouth is hanging open, either.) I love that I can still learn new things about this game.



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  #48  
Old 06-15-2017, 11:57 PM
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I'd guess they probably tweaked his sprites' color palette between shipping 3 and S&K?
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  #49  
Old 06-16-2017, 12:08 AM
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Sonic Adventure 2 did, though
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  #50  
Old 06-16-2017, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Mightyblue View Post
I'd guess they probably tweaked his sprites' color palette between shipping 3 and S&K?
The reason NPC Knuckles has yellow socks is because he has to share a palette with the yellow HUD (there are pre-release screenshots of Sonic 3 with a correctly-colored Knuckles and a green HUD). I looked it up, and apparently he has that dark yellow in Hidden Palace because he also shares a palette with rings (it's the only stage where NPC Knuckles can be on the screen at the same time as a ring, so it was either dark yellow on Knuckles or bright red rings). When you play as him, he gets his own palette in the place of Sonic's, so he can use the colors they intended for him.

That does leave the differing shades of red, though. That could have been a deliberate choice, but it still predates Sonic & Knuckles since his playable palette is loaded in memory on the Sonic 3 data select screen.
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  #51  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
When you play as him, he gets his own palette in the place of Sonic's, so he can use the colors they intended for him.
This is also why the bubble shield icon becomes a red drop as Knuckles instead of a blue one. I've wondered if the redder shade was to make it possible to fit Knuckles' colors into the palette for Sonic and Tails, since it comes closer to matching their shoes. While the game is usually pretty good about making sure Sonic's colors aren't used for anything else, there are a few surprising exceptions such as some balloons in Carnival Night and, again, that shield icon.
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  #52  
Old 06-16-2017, 12:01 PM
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I feel like this needs to be a forum icon.
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  #53  
Old 06-16-2017, 12:28 PM
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I would also approve of this one

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  #54  
Old 06-16-2017, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishi View Post
This one sorta looks like Knuckles is playing air guitar.
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  #55  
Old 06-16-2017, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAT
GEE I HOPE NOBODY READING THIS LP RESPONDS TO THIS POST WITH A BUNCH OF BEAUTIFULLY ANIMATED GIFS OF KNUCKLES PLAYING A SWEET ASS AIR GUITAR
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Torzelbaum beat me to it, but eh.
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  #56  
Old 06-16-2017, 05:08 PM
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The 8th Apr. 1994 prototype is the one where Hidden Palace is Sky Sanctuary Act 1 (despite being in a cave, the exact opposite of the sky)
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  #57  
Old 06-18-2017, 06:11 PM
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I promised a video of Hidden Palace with the Sonic 3 Credits music. It's just me fucking around in the stage, and trying (and for some reason failing) to reach the Tails-required secret hiding above the main area for Sonic.



Also, a bonus clip of how well the Sonic 3 Knuckles fight music syncs up to the action in the Robotnik cutscene if you let it continue through the stage rather than be interrupted, after beating Knuckles as quickly as possible:

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  #58  
Old 06-18-2017, 06:35 PM
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Last edited by muteKi; 06-18-2017 at 08:47 PM.
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  #59  
Old 06-18-2017, 07:54 PM
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Oh my god I love what has happened to this thread SO MUCH.
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  #60  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:40 PM
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Oh my god I love what has happened to this thread SO MUCH.
That it has become full of Franco Knuckles gifs?
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