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View Poll Results: The Black Omen from Chrono Trigger:
I didn't play Chrono Trigger as a young'un, so my vote doensn't count, but I like clicking buttons! 8 10.26%
It's a tower, and it's always been a tower. 19 24.36%
It's a star destroyer, and it's always been a star destroyer. 30 38.46%
It's a star destroyer, but I sure always saw a dang ol' tower as a kid. 20 25.64%
I always saw a star destoyer, but I'm switching my vote to tower now because I'm wacky. 1 1.28%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 06-07-2017, 07:42 AM
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Default An Ill Wind Blows... A Black Omen

Context

It's been suggested that we put this to a poll, and I'm curious to see the break-down myself. Let's settle this democratically!


What is this?

I'm really only interested in hearing from people who played Chrono Trigger as a kid. I don't want to know what people think now as much as I want to know what they thought back when it was new, because not only did I think that it was a tower, but I thought that everyone else did too.
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2017, 07:44 AM
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There wasn't an option for splitting the difference and saying "a star destroyer with a pyramid on top" which is what I think now
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  #3  
Old 06-07-2017, 07:49 AM
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I think the trick is that it's bobbing up and down slightly in-game, which makes the viewer associate it with a vertical structure (EG, a bottle bobbing in the ocean) rather than a horizontal one like a ship.



That shows the effect pretty clearly. I'm pretty sure none of the other ships in the game (Blackbird, Epoch, etc.) use the effect when flying... but Mt. Woe *does*

Last edited by Sven; 06-07-2017 at 08:06 AM.
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  #4  
Old 06-07-2017, 07:49 AM
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I always thought it was implied that it was the Ocean Palace. But looking at them side by side they have only the most general similarity in appearance.

Anyway, I always thought it looked like a ship, even though the Ocean Palace is pyramid-shaped....

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  #5  
Old 06-07-2017, 07:55 AM
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I see a (distant) family relation:



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  #6  
Old 06-07-2017, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
jbear: Loki, as an actual artsman, I say you draw us a convincing image of the tower to convince the heathens.


Case dismissed.
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  #7  
Old 06-07-2017, 08:09 AM
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It amuses me to no end how everyone on both sides thinks that GIFs and video of the thing bobbing will convince people one way or another. We've all seen it bob! That's all that it does!
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  #8  
Old 06-07-2017, 08:16 AM
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I definitely always saw it as a tower, but now I see the error of my ways.

This is tangential to the point, but wasn't there an implication that Queen Zeal wasn't just generically mad with power, but was actually being controlled or influenced by Lavos to some extent? Like the connection through the Mammon Machine went both ways. Lavos is a space parasite that wants to consume planets, then reproduce and spread its young to more planets, so if it has a pawn in Zeal, then it makes sense that her grand creation looks like it has the capability to travel the stars, and that she's already got at least one Lavos Spawn onboard.
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  #9  
Old 06-07-2017, 08:18 AM
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I showed my wife this picture of the Black Omen, out of curiosity of HER thoughts; she'd never played Chrono Trigger, and I wondered how she would interpret it, from a completely fresh perspective.



Well, she was a bit far away from the screen, and her interpretation ended up being an ALL NEW ONE:

She saw the shadow as a big black beard, the Black Omen itself as some sort of luminescent squid-head/ornate headdress, and the landmasses below as the figure's shoulders.
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  #10  
Old 06-07-2017, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deptford View Post
She saw the shadow as a big black beard, the Black Omen itself as some sort of luminescent squid-head/ornate headdress, and the landmasses below as the figure's shoulders.
Ask her if the two little protrusions at the bottom of the Omen are a nose or a mouth.
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  #11  
Old 06-07-2017, 08:24 AM
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I see a few people on Loki's crazy team now, so just to make sure that everyone has seen the original post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBear View Post


!



!!



The Black Omen is a star destroyer, not a tower!
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  #12  
Old 06-07-2017, 08:39 AM
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Where's the poll option for I just don't even fucking know anymore?
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  #13  
Old 06-07-2017, 08:47 AM
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It's a blue and gold mouth.
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  #14  
Old 06-07-2017, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaeran View Post
This is tangential to the point, but wasn't there an implication that Queen Zeal wasn't just generically mad with power, but was actually being controlled or influenced by Lavos to some extent? Like the connection through the Mammon Machine went both ways. Lavos is a space parasite that wants to consume planets, then reproduce and spread its young to more planets, so if it has a pawn in Zeal, then it makes sense that her grand creation looks like it has the capability to travel the stars, and that she's already got at least one Lavos Spawn onboard.
If you talk to Melchior in the Present era about the Black Omen, he comments that it was made neither by human or mystic. Since Balthasar designed the Ocean Palace and Melchior has been there, it's a bit odd that he doesn't recognize it. This either implies the Ocean Palace was warped by Lavos' power, or there was more to it than even Melchior knew. Maybe Zeal had been planning this all along.

I'm also not sure why the Black Omen never appeared in the original timeline, any theories?

To go on a further tangent, I always assumed that the 'Mystics' were magical creatures created by Zeal as servants, all the creatures on the Mountain of Woe look like the ancestors of the monsters who would become known as mystics (imps, gargoyles, etc.) and when the Mountain of Woe crashed I assume they went on build their own civilization. Considering that they later recognize Magus, a blood royal of Zeal, as their obvious King, I think this makes sense.
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  #15  
Old 06-07-2017, 08:56 AM
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I never saw a tower; that ship was clearly too flat. (?)

Chrono Trigger... its good
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  #16  
Old 06-07-2017, 09:04 AM
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Terra Tower is the alternate timeline's equivalent to the Black Omen. It is a floating tower. Q.E.d.
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  #17  
Old 06-07-2017, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitayre View Post
I'm also not sure why the Black Omen never appeared in the original timeline, any theories?
It's mentioned a few times that the Ocean Palace was built to suck the energy directly out of Lavos to make Zeal immortal and I always inferred that once it had enough power it would normally change into the Black Omen. Not sure if the gradual siphoning of Lavos' energy set off an environmental chain-reaction that eventual destroyed the mystic kingdom, or else that's the natural consequence of charging up a battery with the electricity you tapped by drilling into cthulhus skull. Either way, Queen Zeal couldn't get that much power out of it by the time Lavos had his fill of the planet and left, certainly nowhere near enough to activate the Palaces transformation.

By the party changing the timeline and waltzing into the Palace to stop the queen, she manages to wake up Lavos directly to kill Crono, and Lavos releases so much energy at once that the Palace has more than enough power to immediately transform AND it partially demolishes most of the planet.
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  #18  
Old 06-07-2017, 09:08 AM
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My wife used her dormant Talking Time account for the first time just to vote against me. A house divided!
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  #19  
Old 06-07-2017, 09:11 AM
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Well, Zeal screwing up and blowing up the planet by waking up Lavos happens in both timelines otherwise Zeal would still be around in the modern day. See, also, Magus. The same set of events happens in both, the difference is that Crono's interference just gets him killed (World Refused to Change, indeed).
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  #20  
Old 06-07-2017, 09:13 AM
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Original Timeline:

-Gurus build Ocean Palace and move Mammon Machine there at Zeal's orders, despite their misgivings.

-Since the Masamune exists in the original timeline, we can assume Melchior used the Ruby Knife to try to stop the Mammon Machine in this timeline, but failed.

-Lavos appears and Janus and the three gurus are thrown to various points in time.

-Lavos destroys the Kingdom of Zeal.

-It is not revealed what happened to Zeal or Schala. Schala's pendant nevertheless becomes an heirloom of the Guardia Family 12,000 years later.

-The Black Omen does not appear.

New Timeline:

-Magus appears in the Kingdom of Zeal as the Prophet, becomes a major power player in the Queen's court. He appears to be trying to stop the Ocean Palace incident from happening by creating a rift between the queen and the gurus.

-The Gurus are ill-favored by the Queen in this timeline due to Magus' influence, Melchior is banished to the Mountain of Woe at the Prophet's order, but he is rescued by Crono and friends.

-Mammon Machine is still moved to the Ocean Palace despite Schala's misgivings about using it.

-Crono and friends use the Ruby Knife on the Mammon Machine but as in the original timeline it does jack shit.

-Magus throws down with Lavos and loses. Lavos kills Crono (spoilers)

- Janus and the gurus are still thrown into a timewarp to prevent a massive paradox.

-Schala rescues Magus and Crono's friends using the last of her power. She remains behind in the Ocean Palace and we won't find out what happens to her until the sequel.

-Lavos destroys the Kingdom of Zeal.

-The Black Omen appears.


What changed?



The basic thrust of events in the Ocean Palace is the same in both timelines. The Mammon Machine goes haywire, the gurus and Janus get sucked into time warps, and the Kingdom of Zeal is wrecked.Both Magus and Crono's party attempt to change these events but explicitly fail.

What we don't know in the original timeline is what became of the queen and Schala. In the new timeline, Schala saves Magus and your party from certain doom. But what did she do in the original timeline?

Here's my theory: In the original timeline, after Janus got pulled into a time warp, Schala lost it. Schala and the queen threw down, and Schala won, preventing Zeal from attaining immortality and the Black Omen from ever existing.

In the new timeline, she saves your party instead.
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  #21  
Old 06-07-2017, 09:26 AM
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I always thought it would make so much more sense for the Black Omen to ALWAYS be there, like, from the moment the game starts. That way, you'd have the mystery of "what is that?" from the beginning, and the neat detail of visiting the earliest time periods and realizing it's "missing". And then the ominous teleport down to the Ocean Palace could actually be ominous, as, oh snap, this must be where the Black Omen "begins". Also, it would make the random NPC comments that are like, "The Black Omen looks so pretty in the sun," more significant in regards to this being a permanent part of the world you eventually destroy.

Goggle Bob Fanedit aside, my theory has always been that the original timeline involved Lavos obliterating Zeal for her... zeal... and thus the Black Omen never came together. Schala was also killed in the crossfire. The benefit of sacrificial Crono is that he died so Schala could survive... and inadvertently become a new kind of monster. Whoops. But then she got better! Happy end!
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  #22  
Old 06-07-2017, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meditative_Zebra View Post
I see a (distant) family relation:



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  #23  
Old 06-07-2017, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavelsAreNeat View Post
I never saw a tower; that ship was clearly too flat. (?)
You cover more vertical distance in Magus' Castle than in the Black Omen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoggleBob View Post
I always thought it would make so much more sense for the Black Omen to ALWAYS be there, like, from the moment the game starts.
It wasn't going to have existed at that time.
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  #24  
Old 06-07-2017, 10:04 AM
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I voted for "once a tower, always a tower," but after reviewing the evidence, I must agree that it is a star destroyer.
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  #25  
Old 06-07-2017, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogri View Post
I voted for "once a tower, always a tower," but after reviewing the evidence, I must agree that it is a star destroyer.
Burn the traitor!

.
..
...

Uh, I actually forgot my torch and pitchfork. Would you mind waiting here, Mogri? I'll just jog home and be right back for your lynching.
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  #26  
Old 06-07-2017, 10:26 AM
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Ah dammit I voted for the wrong thing. Stupid touch screens.

It's a Star Destroyer.
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  #27  
Old 06-07-2017, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Terra Tower is the alternate timeline's equivalent to the Black Omen. It is a floating tower. Q.E.d.
Terra Tower is the equivalent of Chronopolis.

Also it's not a tower it's a giant bird. Made of stone. And with a dragon-like head. And it can transform. For no reason.
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  #28  
Old 06-07-2017, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zef View Post
And it can transform. For no reason.
Do you need any reason other than 'it looks freaking cool in a FMV'?
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  #29  
Old 06-07-2017, 10:49 AM
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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: and so it was a tower. But when I became a man, I put away childish things: and so it is a star destroyer.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: and so it was a tower. But when I became a man, I put away childish things: and so it is a star destroyer.
Yeah I can't top this explanation.
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